:00:46. > :00:51.Afternoon and welcome to the Daily Politics. Did Culture Secretary
:00:51. > :00:54.Jeremy Hunt break the ministerial code or not? Now a senior Liberal
:00:54. > :00:56.Democrat has backed calls for an immediate inquiry into Jeremy
:00:56. > :01:01.Hunt's dealings with Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation.
:01:01. > :01:06.Wanted. Big hitter to defend the Tories. Who on earth would want to
:01:06. > :01:09.be their man on the front line? Or woman?
:01:09. > :01:13.And speaking of big hitters, will this former policeman be fighting
:01:13. > :01:21.his way to City Hall? The Lib Dem candidate for London Mayor, Brian
:01:21. > :01:24.Paddick, will be appearing. We need to identify a degree of
:01:24. > :01:28.authenticity and compassion in the way we deal with this, otherwise
:01:28. > :01:32.you just seem like you don't know what you or talking about.
:01:32. > :01:34.Rupert Murdoch wasn't the only star of the show this week. We'll be
:01:34. > :01:44.taking a look back at some glittering moments in the
:01:44. > :01:49.Westminster village. All that in the next hour, coming up, public
:01:49. > :01:54.service broadcasting in its -- at its finest.
:01:54. > :01:58.With us for the duration veteran political journalist, Julia Langdon.
:01:58. > :02:04.And the young whipper-snapper from the Times, Sam Coates. We will take
:02:04. > :02:07.him down a peg or two! Welcome to you both. Now without further ado
:02:07. > :02:15.lets talk about Rupert Murdoch, who apparently has no power and if he
:02:15. > :02:18.had he wouldn't know how to use it. He knew nothing about phone hacking
:02:18. > :02:25.and was the helpless victim of the phone hacking cover-up at the News
:02:25. > :02:28.of the World. Poor fellow. And he was under oath! Hardly worth
:02:28. > :02:32.mentioning at all in fact, but let's talk about him anyway. But
:02:32. > :02:38.first here's some choice clips from the evidence he gave to the Leveson
:02:38. > :02:46.Inquiry this week. There is no question in my mind that maybe even
:02:46. > :02:51.the editor but certainly beyond that, someone took charge of a
:02:51. > :02:59.cover-up. Some might say that all this picture is consistent with one
:02:59. > :03:08.of a desire to cover up rather than a desire to expose. In minds like
:03:08. > :03:15.yours, yes, perhaps. I am sorry. I take that back. Excuse me. Did you
:03:15. > :03:22.have any discussions with Mr Jeremy Hunt about the bid? I don't believe
:03:22. > :03:27.I have ever met him. I am not sure he didn't come to a dinner once a
:03:27. > :03:35.couple of years ago. I certainly did not discuss it. When your son
:03:35. > :03:40.told you about the replacement of Dr Vince Cable, did he tell you, we
:03:40. > :03:45.have got someone better now? Words to that effect? I don't know if he
:03:45. > :03:51.used those words. We couldn't have had anyone worse. I am sure he
:03:51. > :03:56.didn't use those words precisely. I am communicating the gist of the
:03:56. > :04:01.idea. He had Vince Cable, he was dead against News International.
:04:01. > :04:07.You knew that on that 20 -- on December 21st, when it came out on
:04:07. > :04:11.the BBC, so it must have passed through your mind. He has been
:04:11. > :04:19.replaced by Jeremy Hunt, what is Jeremy Hunt like? Didn't you ask
:04:19. > :04:26.your son? I may have. I don't remember. You must have done.
:04:26. > :04:30.mustn't have done anything. I explained to you yesterday, I never
:04:30. > :04:35.saw anything wrong in what we were doing, that it was a commonplace
:04:35. > :04:40.transaction. A large one but a commonplace one. That was not the
:04:40. > :04:46.question, Mr Murdoch. So why would I be worried about the politics of
:04:46. > :04:49.it? Probably the last time Rupert Murdoch will be interrogated live
:04:50. > :04:54.on British television. And we've got a couple of deputy
:04:54. > :04:59.dogs with us now as well. For a first in British television ever,
:04:59. > :05:03.appearing together, Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party, Michael
:05:03. > :05:07.Fallon, and the Deputy Chairman of the Labour Party, Tom Watson.
:05:07. > :05:13.Welcome. This unique and ground- breaking piece of television.
:05:13. > :05:18.Jeremy Hunt said he will give all the Leveson Inquiry e-mails between
:05:18. > :05:25.himself and Adam Smith to Lord Leveson, isn't that enough? He has
:05:25. > :05:30.obviously not sent any e-mails to him then. Are you that cynical? Yes.
:05:30. > :05:34.You don't think he would want to put into the record any potentially
:05:34. > :05:41.embarrassing communications? This is a ridiculous charade where the
:05:41. > :05:47.Tory party are trying to stop a proper investigation. Michael will
:05:47. > :05:52.have a row about it, he will defend the Tory line, and then in a couple
:05:52. > :05:57.of weeks they will have to do it. The inquiry into Jeremy Hunt's
:05:57. > :06:02.behaviour has gone to Lord Leveson, whose terms of the inquiry do not
:06:02. > :06:07.cover the ministerial code. I think Tom Watson would be more cynical if
:06:07. > :06:14.the government would doing its own inquiry. This inquiry is under way
:06:14. > :06:19.by a senior judge. Jeremy Hunt was already due to appear before it.
:06:19. > :06:23.Other politicians will appear later on, including politicians from that
:06:23. > :06:28.side of the House, the previous government, and we will get to the
:06:28. > :06:33.bottom of what happened. Lord Leveson was not a high it to judge
:06:33. > :06:37.on the ministerial code, he is not an expert on that -- was not
:06:37. > :06:43.employed to judge. You have someone who is an expert on the ministerial
:06:43. > :06:47.code, who is paid to adjudicate on the ministerial code, and you have
:06:47. > :06:51.not referred it to him. The because Lord Justice Leveson said the
:06:51. > :06:55.better course was to allow the inquiry to proceed and he will be
:06:55. > :07:00.able to weigh up the evidence and if anything comes from that that
:07:00. > :07:04.needs to be investigated under the ministerial code, that will be done.
:07:04. > :07:09.I have got the terms of reference for Lord Leveson. Where does it say
:07:09. > :07:12.he should pass judgment on whether a minister has bridged the
:07:12. > :07:18.ministerial code? Your Prime Minister raised the bar on
:07:18. > :07:21.ministerial standards. He said, we will clear this up. Now you have a
:07:21. > :07:27.guy whose adviser has Leeds these e-mails to a lobbyist for James
:07:27. > :07:32.Murdoch and now you a say we are too scared to have an investigation.
:07:32. > :07:37.-- you are saying. Do you think that will hold him up mind of the
:07:37. > :07:41.people in the country? There is an investigation that is going on.
:07:41. > :07:47.This Prime Minister set up the Leveson Inquiry. But he did not
:07:47. > :07:51.give them the terms of reference to adjudicate on the ministerial code.
:07:51. > :07:55.What the Prime Minister has done is set up an independent adviser on
:07:55. > :07:59.the ministerial code, he is called Alex Allan, simple name,
:07:59. > :08:08.straightforward man. Why he's been not allowed to rule on the
:08:08. > :08:13.ministerial code? There is an inquiry... A but not on the
:08:13. > :08:18.ministerial code, which Jeremy Hunt has been accused of breaking!
:08:18. > :08:23.they are central to what Lord Leveson is inquiring into. If it
:08:23. > :08:28.follows from this evidence that there is the specific issue under
:08:28. > :08:33.the ministerial code that requires further explanation and examination
:08:33. > :08:40.by Alex Allan, that will be done, but the first in is to let Jeremy
:08:40. > :08:43.Hunt put forward the information... Why not to Alex Allan? The
:08:44. > :08:48.ministerial code states clearly that ministers are responsible for
:08:48. > :08:52.the behaviours and actions of their special advisers. Jeremy Hunt's
:08:52. > :08:57.special adviser has resigned so therefore to work out why it and if
:08:57. > :09:02.there has been a breach, why do we not ask the man that the people are
:09:02. > :09:05.paying to police this ministerial code? Because we already have an
:09:05. > :09:10.inquiry into the relationship between government and BSkyB under
:09:10. > :09:14.way, headed by a senior judge, and he himself has said that the best
:09:14. > :09:17.course would be to allow that inquiry to proceed, to see the
:09:17. > :09:22.evidence and test Jeremy Hunt on the evidence and for him to give
:09:22. > :09:28.his side of the story, and if it transpires there has been a breach,
:09:28. > :09:31.that can be looked at. This is preposterous. The Conservative
:09:31. > :09:35.chairman of the Public Administration Committee was the
:09:35. > :09:39.independent adviser to see it. Simon Hughes of the Lib Dems wants
:09:39. > :09:44.him to see it. The only person who does not want it is the prime
:09:44. > :09:49.minister. The truth about this, everybody is running absolutely
:09:49. > :09:52.terrified because they know they will be exposed for being a tied to
:09:52. > :09:57.Rupert Murdoch, and that will happen to people in my party as
:09:57. > :10:01.well by the way, but you are defending the indefensible today
:10:01. > :10:06.and it is unacceptable and ludicrous. This government set up a
:10:06. > :10:14.full inquiry, you never bothered to do that. I am not answering for my
:10:14. > :10:17.predecessors. He was quite keen on the inquiry. This Prime Minister
:10:17. > :10:21.have to take responsibility. A minister may have breached the
:10:21. > :10:26.ministerial code and there is a procedure and you of running away
:10:26. > :10:32.from it and even your own backbench Tory MPs and important members
:10:32. > :10:37.within the Conservative Party say you were wrong. Let's go on to the
:10:37. > :10:43.border story of Rupert Murdoch and his relationship with politics in
:10:43. > :10:48.the UK. What did we learn this week, or what do we know now that we did
:10:48. > :10:52.not know on Monday? We know that Rupert Murdoch has admitted there
:10:52. > :10:55.was a cover-up at News International. We know he
:10:55. > :10:58.disregarded parliament, the blackmail allegation was raised
:10:59. > :11:03.with him when he gave evidence in July and he had forgotten about it
:11:03. > :11:07.by the time he got in front of the judge this week. We know they are
:11:07. > :11:12.fighting like rats and they are shooting each other left, right and
:11:12. > :11:20.centre. What we don't know, what other contexts of the Burton
:11:20. > :11:25.Copeland report...? News International have not given up
:11:25. > :11:29.their privilege of that glory at report. Yes and if that report
:11:29. > :11:35.identified wrong doing at the company in 2006, that might mean
:11:35. > :11:41.the directors at News Corp are potentially questionable under an
:11:41. > :11:44.act in the United States, and they may also be responsible for not
:11:44. > :11:48.letting their shareholders no price-sensitive information so the
:11:48. > :11:54.one thing he has got to do is published that Burton Copeland
:11:54. > :12:01.report. Is it not significant that the two people Mr Murdoch appeared
:12:01. > :12:06.to implicate him the cup a ruck, Colin Myler and Tom Crone, they
:12:06. > :12:13.said they had briefed Mr Murdoch's son -- implicated in the cover-up.
:12:13. > :12:20.Should we not see something thinner step in that? Everybody regards
:12:20. > :12:24.anything to do with that Mr Murdoch as sinister. -- should we not see
:12:24. > :12:34.something sinister in that? judge has got to look at this and
:12:34. > :12:37.draw on it. His every Allsopp of the Conservatives for the -- is
:12:37. > :12:42.every answer from any Conservative in the foreseeable future going to
:12:42. > :12:47.be that we have to wait for the opinion of Lord Leveson? Are you
:12:47. > :12:51.hiding behind Lord Leveson's robes or will you answer the question, of
:12:51. > :12:59.what do you think the significance is of picking Tom Crone and Colin
:12:59. > :13:04.Myler as the people responsible for the cover-up? Nobody is hiding from
:13:04. > :13:10.Lord Leveson. On the contrary, all the politicians and key people from
:13:10. > :13:15.News Corporation will be in front of him. Nobody is hiding. You off.
:13:15. > :13:21.No. The Prime Minister will be appearing in front of him. It is
:13:21. > :13:25.far better done, with great respect, by a judge inquiry than us
:13:25. > :13:33.speculating on various bits of the evidence which we have not heard.
:13:33. > :13:38.quite right so that's continued to speculate. -- so let's continue.
:13:38. > :13:41.think it is enormously significant that the minister in question's
:13:41. > :13:47.Permanent Secretary yesterday refused 10 times to say that the
:13:47. > :13:53.man we had never heard of, Adam Smith, had behaved properly. He
:13:53. > :13:58.refused to comment. I think it is enormously significant that Ofcom
:13:58. > :14:04.is also dusting down the way it is looking at the BSkyB bid. They want
:14:04. > :14:13.to look at hacking out to see if there is evidence to see if they
:14:13. > :14:19.are not fit and proper persons... And if I was a better -- a betting
:14:19. > :14:25.woman, which I am thank the Lord, to say that Jeremy Hunt will not be
:14:25. > :14:29.there next week. Absolutely. Tuesday afternoon, the Prime
:14:30. > :14:33.Minister decided that he wanted to keep Jeremy Hunt and a lot of stuff
:14:33. > :14:38.that has flowed from that, comes from that decision. It is
:14:38. > :14:42.significant that for instance people in government do not think
:14:42. > :14:51.there will be a Jeremy Hunt Amex in the Levison report, there might not
:14:51. > :14:55.be a section on him. It is unclear that it is his job to go into the
:14:55. > :15:01.line by line details of a Minister's relationship with his
:15:01. > :15:04.special adviser. That does not seem to cut it. I take a different view.
:15:04. > :15:08.I do not think Jeremy Hunt will necessarily go. I think the
:15:08. > :15:14.government have done an effective political and backroom job to make
:15:14. > :15:19.sure there are not any unexploded bombs. Next week they will hand
:15:19. > :15:24.over e-mails and texts which will not contain anything dangerous,
:15:24. > :15:28.Downing Street Arkley on that. Actually I think there are not any
:15:28. > :15:34.problems on Jeremy Hunt and he will probably end up staying in his job.
:15:34. > :15:44.We shall see. What usually happens is the unknown bit. These stories
:15:44. > :15:48.go places you never think so we Now we admire and love the
:15:48. > :15:55.Financial Times on this programme. Daily Politics researchers are seen
:15:55. > :15:59.scrapping over bits of pink paper from an early hour. Nothing to do
:15:59. > :16:04.with the fact that the editor has been mentioned as a future director
:16:04. > :16:07.general of the BBC, we have always just loved the Financial Times. But
:16:07. > :16:10.we had to take umbrage at one article this week, that dubbed
:16:10. > :16:19.Michael Fallon here, Minister for the Today Programme. Writers of the
:16:19. > :16:28.FT, he's ours. The Daily politics! And Mr Fallon has certainly been
:16:28. > :16:32.busy, batting for the government from dawn to dusk. Like one of
:16:32. > :16:37.these Test-match opening batsman who you cannot get out. After all
:16:38. > :16:43.it's not been the best of months for Mr Cameron. Some have asked,
:16:43. > :16:46.where is Baroness Warsi, Mr Fallon's boss? After all, you can
:16:47. > :16:56.be party chair, or you can be camera shy, you can't surely be
:16:57. > :17:10.
:17:10. > :17:16.What is your reaction to those to resign? Two out of two isn't bad.
:17:16. > :17:26.Though a charitable man, I find it... I find it harder to feel
:17:26. > :17:40.
:17:40. > :17:47.sorry for Mr Kinnock. The more he That is a second Tory victory being
:17:47. > :17:53.announced. So we have a rival for the leadership. I as party chairman
:17:53. > :18:03.have enjoyed it because most party chairman end up with sniping and
:18:03. > :18:15.
:18:15. > :18:20.So, why do we always get the monkey and not the organ grinder? You had
:18:20. > :18:23.Baroness Warsi on this programme just two weeks ago, she was on
:18:23. > :18:29.Newsnight, she did Question Time last week. She is up and down the
:18:29. > :18:33.country. A rich you are on much more than her! Why is that? If all
:18:33. > :18:37.the ministers worked as hard as her getting over the government's
:18:37. > :18:41.message, we wouldn't be as far behind in the polls as we are. She
:18:41. > :18:47.was on this programme last week. you were asked to take the
:18:47. > :18:53.chairman's job, would you accept? We have got a party chairman.
:18:53. > :18:58.if she was to fall on her sword, follow the ways of Adam Smith, I
:18:58. > :19:02.don't mean the 18th century economy, if she was to do that, and her
:19:02. > :19:08.position was to become vacant, would you be up for this? It is not
:19:08. > :19:12.a yes or no, we have got a party chairman. So the answer is No. She
:19:12. > :19:17.has these huge advantage at not being an MP, so she can get out in
:19:17. > :19:24.the country, talking to activists, I saw her on Question Time last
:19:24. > :19:30.week. I don't know if it has quite a big audience... Don't you slag
:19:30. > :19:35.off this programme! She has been on all these programmes, putting the
:19:35. > :19:38.government's message over. They pull the other cabinet minister --
:19:38. > :19:44.if all the other cabinet ministers worked as hard as her, the
:19:44. > :19:48.government would be better shape. Part of your party organisers
:19:48. > :19:54.fundraisers, and it is beamed around the titanic event. Did you
:19:54. > :19:58.serve the same food as on the night of the Titanic went down? You
:19:58. > :20:04.invite Baroness Warsi and you hold it on Friday 13th. What could
:20:04. > :20:11.possibly go wrong?! I wonder. I hadn't heard of that won't. But
:20:11. > :20:18.there have been a lot of a titanic commemoration dinners. They need a
:20:18. > :20:24.strong chairman? They have got two, actually. They are doing a good job.
:20:25. > :20:29.It is a very typical, Sam Coates might agree, but governments get
:20:29. > :20:36.rough periods, and people stop blaming the chairman. They take the
:20:36. > :20:44.incoming fire, and you get this Corus. I'm glad you mentioned Sam
:20:44. > :20:49.Coates. I will just refresh his memory. "he works 25 hours a day,
:20:49. > :20:54.defending the indefensible, he gives a withering looks to certain
:20:54. > :21:02.questions. He is what they need, not a crony. Baroness Warsi is
:21:02. > :21:06.sackable. Please continue. course Michael is chairman in all
:21:06. > :21:12.but name, because few people are willing... All of us want you to
:21:12. > :21:17.get a pay rise, I don't know why you're resisting it! You should get
:21:17. > :21:24.the chairman's salary. The point about this government is that it is
:21:24. > :21:28.interesting how few are prepared... How few cabinet ministers come out
:21:28. > :21:34.and make the core argument about why this government is doing while
:21:34. > :21:39.it is doing. I'm thinking about the charity changes, explaining in
:21:39. > :21:44.public why the change was made in the Budget, or the NHS changes.
:21:44. > :21:49.There is always a bit missing in the speeches, justifying why the
:21:49. > :21:53.changes are being made. So there is a bigger shyness about this crop of
:21:53. > :21:58.politicians, about exploding to the public are difficult things they
:21:58. > :22:03.are doing, they don't want to be boxed in and say difficult things,
:22:03. > :22:09.but Michael is one of the few who does. One of the things going wrong
:22:09. > :22:15.with this government, and is a reason why it is in trouble is
:22:15. > :22:20.because they have not got the strategic situation sorted out of
:22:20. > :22:25.who is doing what and where. George Osborne is in charge of policy
:22:25. > :22:32.making, and bring the economy into the ground. Who is the chairman of
:22:32. > :22:40.the Labour Party? I know my place. Harriet Harman. I don't want her
:22:40. > :22:49.job, she is in charge, I do what she tells me. But he is the general
:22:49. > :22:53.secretary? Ian McNicol. We used to have people in these executive
:22:53. > :22:58.position to which stand up to the leadership of the party. That is
:22:58. > :23:00.not happening at Central Office. used to have general secretary is
:23:00. > :23:05.attacking their leader from there rostrum of the Labour Party
:23:05. > :23:10.conference, we have moved beyond that. Michael Fallon, you have been
:23:10. > :23:15.a good sport, so you will have the last word. I was trying to say, I
:23:15. > :23:20.think Sam makes a good point, it is up to all ministers to defend the
:23:20. > :23:25.government commission be left to Baroness Warsi ought to me. We saw
:23:25. > :23:30.Michael go out on Wednesday defending the decision over Leveson,
:23:30. > :23:35.and ministers have got to do that. It cannot be left to David Cameron
:23:35. > :23:41.or George Osborne or Baroness Warsi. You have a train to catch. The
:23:41. > :23:45.Harry Potter Express. constituency. Tom Watson, Michael
:23:45. > :23:48.Fallon, thank you for being with us. Now, the last few days have seen
:23:48. > :23:50.allegations of widespread postal fraud and vote harvesting in the
:23:50. > :23:52.London borough of Tower Hamlets. Labour and Conservative councillors
:23:52. > :23:57.have written to the Electoral Commission detailing instances
:23:57. > :23:59.where they believe postal fraud may have occurred. The Electoral
:23:59. > :24:06.Commission has passed the allegations on to the Metropolitan
:24:06. > :24:08.Police who are now investigating. To find out more we can speak to
:24:08. > :24:18.one of the MPs for the Tower Hamlets area, Labour's Jim
:24:18. > :24:22.Fitzpatrick. Mr Fitzpatrick, thank you for joining us. Tell us what do
:24:22. > :24:26.you know has been happening in Tower Hamlets? We have been
:24:26. > :24:32.concerned for some time about allegations of voting
:24:32. > :24:38.irregularities, there was a council by-election in the Spitalfields
:24:38. > :24:41.ward, last week, and as a result of that, residents have registered a
:24:41. > :24:48.number of concerns with some of my councillor colleagues over
:24:48. > :24:53.potential voter fraud, coast applications, people suggested who
:24:53. > :24:59.had voted, who had moved away or had died. Somebody who apparently
:25:00. > :25:03.supposed to be in prison. I have got no idea ability -- the validity
:25:03. > :25:08.of these allegations, but what we thought was appropriate to do was
:25:08. > :25:12.pass on these concerns to the authorities, and the matter has
:25:12. > :25:16.been referred to the Electoral Commission and the police, they are
:25:16. > :25:21.investigating. It is up to the operative to examine the
:25:21. > :25:25.allegations and see if there is any truth in them. In the working have
:25:25. > :25:30.been giving, and the work of your colleagues in the local Labour
:25:30. > :25:35.Party, do you have any sense, I know this is just anecdotal, but
:25:35. > :25:42.any sense of how widespread you think this is? No, we haven't.
:25:42. > :25:48.Tower Hamlets, as you know, is a dynamic, exciting political
:25:48. > :25:54.landscape. We got rid of the BNP in 1993, we have got rid of the
:25:54. > :25:59.Respect party, he has been resurrected in Bradford West, sadly,
:25:59. > :26:03.but a lot of dynamism in Tower Hamlets politics. They're always a
:26:03. > :26:11.distant and stories and anecdotes, but when a residents raised
:26:11. > :26:15.concerns which to us seemed worth reporting, it is our duty to report
:26:15. > :26:22.them to the authorities. It is a complicated political position in
:26:22. > :26:26.Tower Hamlets. Let me summarise it for our viewers, and see if it is
:26:26. > :26:33.relevant to potential fraud, but you have a Mayor who was in the
:26:33. > :26:41.Labour Party, but isn't any more. He was backed by Ken Livingstone
:26:42. > :26:46.against the Labour candidate to become a Mayor, and Mr Rahman is
:26:46. > :26:50.now backing Mr Livingstone to be Mayor? Is that the situation,
:26:50. > :26:57.roughly, and is that relevant? Could Livingstone didn't endorse
:26:57. > :27:04.his candidature Je, but I understand Mr Rahman is supporting
:27:04. > :27:08.can's campaign. He is looking at the two differences between Boris
:27:08. > :27:13.and Ken Livingstone, and the Tower Hamlets, the biggest issue is
:27:13. > :27:18.housing. Ken Livingstone's has a policy when he was Mayor was much
:27:18. > :27:23.better for Tower Hamlets -- housing policy. So it is night and day
:27:23. > :27:31.between the two on that core policy, so why would be surprised if people
:27:31. > :27:37.in Tower Hamlets didn't support Ken Livingstone. But the London mayoral
:27:37. > :27:41.election could be close, polls suggest it might be close, so
:27:41. > :27:45.electoral irregularities become very serious. Should we be
:27:45. > :27:50.suspicious, all right to be suspicious that so many people have
:27:50. > :27:55.recently applied for postal votes in Tower Hamlets? Well, as I said
:27:55. > :27:59.at the beginning, we have been concerned for some time, we monitor
:27:59. > :28:02.the situation very carefully, we know that we have problems with
:28:02. > :28:05.people joining the Labour Party over a number of years to have been
:28:05. > :28:09.signed up, there are suggestions that their membership has been paid
:28:09. > :28:16.by people who needed their boats to suggest candidates for local
:28:16. > :28:18.government. We have worked very hard with the council and the
:28:18. > :28:23.Electoral Registration Office declined Tower Hamlets's act up,
:28:23. > :28:28.and when we get allegations such as those, we obviously want to make
:28:28. > :28:34.sure that these are examined very closely. So if there is fraud, and
:28:34. > :28:38.I am saying it if, it can be nailed, and those responsible can be held
:28:38. > :28:44.to account and prosecuted vigorously, because this is the
:28:44. > :28:48.essence of our democracy, to have openness, transparency and honesty.
:28:48. > :28:53.I understand that, but we know the way it works with postal votes, it
:28:53. > :28:56.ends up in a particular household, these postal votes are then
:28:56. > :29:03.harvested, the people who have the bird macro are not the ones are
:29:03. > :29:07.filling it in, NGC are all sorts of boats being filled in by the same
:29:07. > :29:11.person or group. Is it the best way to make sure that doesn't happen is
:29:11. > :29:17.to go back to the old system, you only got a postal vote if you were
:29:17. > :29:22.not in the country at the time of the election? If you were going to
:29:22. > :29:26.be in Tower Hamlets, you didn't have. This is dynamic democracy,
:29:26. > :29:31.and there are changes all the time. The tightening up of the rules of
:29:31. > :29:35.postal voting, making sure the applications are valid, and now the
:29:35. > :29:41.requirements for signatures and date of birth, to validate the
:29:41. > :29:45.forms, means they are more easily identifiable if they are fraudulent.
:29:45. > :29:49.So if there are fraudulent forms being used, that should be able to
:29:49. > :29:55.be demonstrated much more easily than previously, when people to
:29:55. > :29:59.harvest them, and could send them in. So checking to see if the voter
:29:59. > :30:05.still lives at the address, is alive, not in prison, if these
:30:05. > :30:09.allegations can be checked by the authorities, that would clean the
:30:09. > :30:14.act up, and in that instant, postal voting can be convenient for people,
:30:14. > :30:19.especially those working, with children, shift workers. I did in
:30:19. > :30:29.postal voting itself is a bad thing, -- I don't think postal voting
:30:29. > :30:33.
:30:33. > :30:38.Sam Coates. Let me come to you first. In Tower Hamlets, if there
:30:38. > :30:43.is an irregularity, the beneficiary is Ken Livingstone. That would seem
:30:43. > :30:50.to be clear. If the election is very close, this is potentially a
:30:50. > :30:56.huge story. We have seen during ministers make exactly that point.
:30:56. > :31:02.-- Tory ministers. Postal fraud has been prevalent in Britain in
:31:02. > :31:06.different parts of the country. Done by different groups. It is a
:31:06. > :31:11.very serious matter and if the result is close, we could be
:31:11. > :31:15.heading for the court. Eventually what is happening in Tower Hamlets
:31:15. > :31:19.is there are two distinct parts of the Bangladeshi community and you
:31:19. > :31:23.have different politicians using different tactics to try to get one
:31:23. > :31:29.and the other side on board. You see this in Birmingham and you
:31:29. > :31:33.probably saw it in Bradford with George Galloway, how reluctant
:31:33. > :31:38.politicians are to spell out the claims of tactics they use when
:31:38. > :31:43.they are in those areas, as opposed to how they talk about how they try
:31:43. > :31:47.to attract those voters. Jim Fitzpatrick just said, I think they
:31:47. > :31:50.preferred Ken Livingstone's manifesto. I suspect they have
:31:50. > :31:57.specific techniques they use in Tower Hamlets that they do not want
:31:57. > :32:01.to tell us about. Not only is postal voting a problem but
:32:01. > :32:06.personification is also easy to do once you have people registered as
:32:06. > :32:10.living in your house, and one of the allegations it there was seven
:32:10. > :32:17.people registered living in one room in Tower Hamlets, and in this
:32:17. > :32:23.recent by-election, someone in prison was on the register. The BBC
:32:23. > :32:27.has been doing quite a lot of this in Tower Hamlets. Had the media,
:32:27. > :32:33.have we not been alive enough to the corruption of our electoral
:32:33. > :32:39.system? Quite right. It is very easy to do. I have a number of
:32:39. > :32:48.people registered in my house who live abroad, I am met on it, and
:32:48. > :32:52.they have a British address. -- I am their Auntie. No, I am not come
:32:52. > :32:56.to personify them, if you are watching, officer! Personified,
:32:56. > :33:03.that means you fill in the ballot papers of all the people
:33:03. > :33:09.registered? Yes. Jim said to they can check signatures. How do they
:33:09. > :33:15.know what people's signatures look like? People signed, yes, I am this
:33:15. > :33:22.person. I could sign my niece's a dress if we wanted to. There is
:33:22. > :33:29.more to go on this. We are talking about London, although it is
:33:29. > :33:32.happening in other parts of the country. Tower Hamlets. Time now to
:33:32. > :33:34.speak to another candidate for London Mayor and today it's the
:33:34. > :33:40.turn of the Liberal Democrat contender, Brian Paddick. First,
:33:40. > :33:43.let's take a look at some of his The former police commander wants
:33:43. > :33:46.an increased emphasis on community sentencing and is proposing the
:33:46. > :33:49.creation of a pay-back programme where criminals are made to do
:33:49. > :33:52.community work like cleaning up graffiti.
:33:52. > :33:54.Mr Paddick wants more training for police to help deal with rape
:33:54. > :33:57.victims and more funding for support groups.
:33:57. > :34:03.He wants a large house building programme and pledges to build
:34:03. > :34:05.360,000 homes in a decade. And there are proposals for cheaper
:34:05. > :34:09.fares for commuters travelling before 7.30am in the morning, as
:34:09. > :34:19.well as a one-hour bus ticket so people can hop on and off busses
:34:19. > :34:21.
:34:21. > :34:26.Brian Paddick joins me now. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Thank you.
:34:26. > :34:31.Can I get your reaction to these allegations in Tower Hamlets?
:34:31. > :34:37.moved address six months ago, because my post has been redirected
:34:37. > :34:42.and I used to have a postal ballot, I now have a postal ballot at home
:34:42. > :34:49.and a polling card for me to go in person and vote. It would be very
:34:49. > :34:55.easy for unscrupulous people to vote often and vote early. So you
:34:55. > :35:00.are sure of two! Of course I shall only be using one of those! These a
:35:00. > :35:05.serious allegations about Tower Hamlets. Are we right to take them
:35:05. > :35:09.seriously? Is this an endemic problem in parts of the country?
:35:09. > :35:14.There is a serious problem that needs to be investigated if we are
:35:14. > :35:19.to have confidence in the voting system that we have. The in Athens,
:35:19. > :35:23.you are in a good position in with the election -- in a sense of. You
:35:23. > :35:29.can, is what you want in the pretty certain knowledge that he will
:35:29. > :35:35.never be asked to deliver. A similar question was put to George
:35:35. > :35:42.Galloway a week before he won a by- election in Bradford. This could be
:35:42. > :35:50.the year of four much reality TV show's stars, you never know! --
:35:50. > :35:55.former. He wasn't on 5% of the opinion polls. You are out of date.
:35:55. > :36:03.Has there been a late surge? A poll in the Telegraph today shows me on
:36:03. > :36:09.10.3%. These postal votes really are working! When we did the BBC
:36:09. > :36:15.London debate. Which you did very well, I have to say. Thank you, you
:36:15. > :36:20.have more votes now. We spoke about housing with you and the other
:36:20. > :36:24.candidates and I put a question to you that in a sense, our ambition
:36:24. > :36:30.for house building in the capital has been quite limited. Even the
:36:30. > :36:34.promises are not enough. You are promising more but 360,000 houses
:36:34. > :36:39.over ten years in a city that many people think is already crowded.
:36:39. > :36:45.Where will you put them? That number was not plucked out of thin
:36:45. > :36:49.air. It is because we have identified brownfield sites, not
:36:49. > :36:55.back gardens and green spaces, but brownfield sites, where you can
:36:55. > :37:02.build these homes. Am I right in thinking that one of the powers
:37:02. > :37:06.that is now coming to the London mayor is that the mayor's office is
:37:07. > :37:14.responsible for the land bank, which is about 350 hectares, and
:37:14. > :37:18.has a budget of over �3 billion? It is a big deal, housing policy?
:37:18. > :37:23.mayor effectively have the same powers that the GLC used to have to
:37:23. > :37:30.build social housing. The majority of that land we are talking about
:37:30. > :37:36.are owned by the mayor. So we have the land already. 60% of the cost
:37:36. > :37:42.of building homes in London is the land cost. Take that out of the
:37:42. > :37:48.equation, you can build a 40% and therefore rent of 40% of the value.
:37:48. > :37:52.But how can you pay? We can borrow from the City. Pension funds in
:37:52. > :37:58.Europe and America invest in social housing. In the past it has been
:37:58. > :38:03.office blocks. In this country it has been yet another Westfield
:38:03. > :38:08.shopping centre. But economic times are tough. I would have thought
:38:08. > :38:13.pension funds would have seen this as a much better bet financially to
:38:13. > :38:17.invest in social housing and in the commercial sector. You say you will
:38:17. > :38:24.be tough on crime, and have been a police background obviously helps
:38:24. > :38:31.in that regard, but you have also said that police are wasted on
:38:31. > :38:36.cannabis. It may be right, it may be wrong, but doesn't it undermine
:38:36. > :38:42.your position as, I am a tough guy on crime and I know more about it
:38:42. > :38:47.than you? People misunderstand this. When I was police commander in
:38:47. > :38:51.Lambeth, local people said, crack cocaine and heroin is destroying
:38:51. > :38:56.young people, we are not interested in them being arrested for small
:38:56. > :39:01.amounts of cannabis for their own use. So we concentrated on
:39:01. > :39:06.arresting people for hard drugs. I want the police concentrating on
:39:06. > :39:11.local people's priorities. I was the police commander in Merton in
:39:11. > :39:16.south London before I went to Lambeth. The crime was fairly low.
:39:16. > :39:22.There was no question of not arresting people for cannabis
:39:22. > :39:27.because we had a time to do that. In Lambeth, we had too much crime,
:39:27. > :39:36.we will 100 police of his short, so it was priorities, and that is what
:39:36. > :39:41.this campaign is about -- we were 100 police officers short. It all
:39:41. > :39:47.seems so blue skies and apple pie and it all sounds wonderful, and it
:39:48. > :39:54.isn't going to happen because it is Ken against Boris. Has that been
:39:54. > :40:00.frustrating? The media particularly. Because we right personalities.
:40:00. > :40:04.These are enormous personalities. - - we like personalities. And you
:40:04. > :40:11.like a fight! But the public are fed up with these two scrapping.
:40:11. > :40:20.You will benefit a bit from that but 10.3%, you know. It is not
:40:20. > :40:26.gonna happen. That is what they said to George Galloway! I think
:40:26. > :40:35.the Independent will do very well... Not according to the opinion polls.
:40:35. > :40:40.She is behind the BNP and UKIP. is the media candidate. Sam Coates?
:40:40. > :40:45.I was fascinated about what you said about Tower Hamlets. Do you
:40:45. > :40:49.think if the result between Ken and Boris is very close and there is a
:40:49. > :40:54.big amount of postal fraud in Tower Hamlets, do you think the election
:40:54. > :40:57.could end up in the courts? That is always a possibility. Ken
:40:57. > :41:02.Livingstone desperately wants it because he can't think of anything
:41:02. > :41:08.else to do with his time. He has got his tax returns to do.
:41:08. > :41:12.Boris Johnson is very, very ambitious. If it comes very close
:41:12. > :41:18.and there is a possibility that borrowers can get it by taking up
:41:18. > :41:21.this issue of voter fraud, it could end up in the court. Are you giving
:41:21. > :41:26.any guidance to supporters on where they should put their second
:41:26. > :41:31.preference? No, only on where they should put their first preference,
:41:31. > :41:35.which is to vote Liberal Democrat. You may have a private one but you
:41:35. > :41:40.will not say that. Is it true you go home at lunchtime to watch the
:41:40. > :41:45.Daily Politics? Of course! It is essential viewing! I don't get to
:41:45. > :41:48.do that every day obviously but I am very lucky because the campaign
:41:48. > :41:55.headquarters is around the corner from where I live. They do allow me
:41:55. > :41:59.to feed occasionally on this campaign, which is good. Your
:41:59. > :42:03.campaign can afford it TV! I don't want to interrupt these very busy
:42:03. > :42:09.people who have hard work to do so I would rather go home and watch it
:42:09. > :42:17.there while I eat my sandwich. Brian Paddick, thank you.
:42:17. > :42:21.Now, more elections. We go from London to Scotland. Voters are
:42:21. > :42:24.being asked to choose who they want as their local councillor. But a
:42:24. > :42:29.year after their sweeping victory in the Scottish Parliament in
:42:29. > :42:32.Holyrood, will the SNP still manage to win new supporters? Or are they
:42:32. > :42:38.now the incumbents? And how is Scottish Labour planning to fight
:42:38. > :42:44.back? BBC Scotland's reporter, Laura Bicker, has been looking at
:42:44. > :42:49.the battleground of Glasgow. This local election campaign needs
:42:49. > :42:54.to be the fight back for Labour. But on the Clyde, they are bruised
:42:54. > :42:58.and broken. Splits within the Glasgow party have led to a
:42:58. > :43:03.breakaway group and Scottish Labour's new leader finds herself
:43:03. > :43:07.with a real battle on her hand it's. Our test, not to presume that
:43:07. > :43:11.people will vote, but to go and argue for every vote and that is
:43:12. > :43:16.what has happened across Scotland. Labour members right across
:43:16. > :43:21.Scotland, determined to get the message across that we will put the
:43:21. > :43:26.priorities of people first. fight in Scotland is for more than
:43:26. > :43:31.Glasgow's City Hall. 1200 council seats, all of them, up for grabs.
:43:31. > :43:37.Most of the 32 local authorities are coalitions. The nationalists
:43:37. > :43:45.take the lead in 14 of them. They want at least two more. If the F M
:43:45. > :43:50.B do really well and pick -- if the SNP do really well and pick up
:43:50. > :43:55.control of a couple more councils, then certainly Alex Salmond will be
:43:55. > :43:58.able to say, the people of Scotland are still behind me, that mandate I
:43:58. > :44:04.have got in terms of taking the country forward towards a
:44:04. > :44:08.referendum has been reaffirmed. Westminster politics still cast a
:44:08. > :44:15.long shadow over Scotland. The Liberal Democrat vote in some areas
:44:15. > :44:19.collapsed. But they are hoping to win back at least some support.
:44:20. > :44:24.are coming across a lot of people who voted SNP last year and are
:44:24. > :44:28.worried about them using this as a stepping stone to independence, and
:44:29. > :44:33.as a result, they will not vote for them. They do not want their
:44:33. > :44:38.council services to be used as a tool to get the SNP their stated
:44:38. > :44:43.policy of independence. That has changed since last year. But the
:44:43. > :44:48.Conservatives say they offer something different. The other main
:44:48. > :44:54.party manifestos are fairly similar. The Tories also think they could
:44:54. > :44:58.win votes at the expense of their UK coalition partners. We have been
:44:58. > :45:02.the fourth body of local government in Scotland since 1992. We expect
:45:02. > :45:07.we will be the third and we will increase our voting share so we are
:45:07. > :45:11.looking to improve. But it is the nationalists who on the march,
:45:11. > :45:16.fielding more candidates than ever before. But can they really win
:45:16. > :45:22.Glasgow? The SNP is fighting to win local elections in every single
:45:22. > :45:25.part of Scotland, not just Glasgow. We believe people want good and
:45:25. > :45:31.competent local government, in the same way they want competent
:45:32. > :45:36.national government. The SNP is all about jobs, families and fairness.
:45:36. > :45:40.Even if the SNP do not manage to take Glasgow, the fact that they
:45:40. > :45:45.are being listened to in this city is a sign of how the political
:45:45. > :45:50.landscape has changed. If the nationalists vote across Scotland
:45:50. > :45:53.increases with them -- with a referendum looming, it could have
:45:53. > :45:58.implications for Westminster and it is a voice that David Cameron and
:45:58. > :46:07.the coalition cannot avoid. We can speak to our Scotland
:46:07. > :46:11.It seems to me that the question in Scotland is whether the SNP are
:46:11. > :46:16.still the insurgents or the incumbents, and whether they will
:46:16. > :46:22.make huge gains. Let me start with Glasgow, what is the latest
:46:22. > :46:30.thinking on how that will go? have to go back to 2007, it is one
:46:30. > :46:33.of only two local authorities are where Labour won with an outright
:46:34. > :46:38.majority, but they wouldn't have done so if the SNP had bothered to
:46:38. > :46:42.field more candidates in a proportional election under the
:46:42. > :46:46.single transferable vote. So you can be sure that the nationalists
:46:46. > :46:49.are bothering to field more candidates this time, in the
:46:49. > :46:54.meantime, they have won another national election, and have the
:46:54. > :46:59.momentum of that behind them. So they certainly expect to pick up
:46:59. > :47:04.extra seat, but in truth, under the system, no one party should have an
:47:04. > :47:09.outright majority. A Labour hoped it will still finish as the largest
:47:09. > :47:15.party, the SNP hope that they will finish in that position in the end.
:47:15. > :47:19.It may be that there needs to be some haggling in Glasgow, and some
:47:19. > :47:23.kind of coalition formed to run the city in the future. That in itself
:47:23. > :47:27.will be a big change, because it has been a Labour-dominated city
:47:28. > :47:31.for so many years. Have you the impression that in terms of the
:47:31. > :47:36.campaigning, it is still the Scottish nationalists who have the
:47:36. > :47:42.verve and the drive, and Labour is still very much on the defensive,
:47:42. > :47:47.trying to repair itself on its -- from its recent miserable years?
:47:47. > :47:51.think the Labour Party expect to be the second party of local
:47:51. > :47:56.government after these elections this year, that is the position
:47:56. > :48:02.they are in, and they don't expect this time around to get back into
:48:02. > :48:06.first place. The SNP certainly broke the mould of Scottish
:48:06. > :48:10.politics with the results they achieved in the Scottish parliament
:48:10. > :48:15.last year, people will be looking at these elections are not just to
:48:15. > :48:20.see what happens in each of the 32 local authorities, but the that
:48:20. > :48:26.overall national picture, is the SNP juggernaut still chugging ahead
:48:26. > :48:29.or it is starting to stall? Certainly for nationalists expect
:48:29. > :48:33.to pick up extra council seats across the country, that is
:48:33. > :48:38.important for them for another reason, because they are aiming for
:48:38. > :48:46.the referendum on independence in 2014, and dump more councillors
:48:46. > :48:53.they have locally, the less other parties have. -- de Mort
:48:53. > :48:57.councillors that they have a locally. Just finally, what is the
:48:57. > :49:01.revelation that not only is Alex Salmond of the only major
:49:01. > :49:07.politician who will now be seen in public with Rupert Murdoch, but was
:49:07. > :49:11.prepared to lobby on behalf of Mr Murdoch's company to get BSkyB,
:49:11. > :49:17.what has been the implication of that for the campaigning for him?
:49:17. > :49:21.Alex Salmond has had a bad week, trouble with two tycoons, Donald
:49:21. > :49:26.Trump, who he has previously been close to, turning against him. I
:49:26. > :49:31.don't think these dealings do him any favours, I don't think they
:49:31. > :49:34.would in any vote, but we are talking about local government
:49:34. > :49:39.elections, when the most motivated people are the only ones who tend
:49:39. > :49:43.to turn out, and I guess different people in different places
:49:43. > :49:48.Northwest Airlines Flight 253 for different reasons. In Edinburgh,
:49:48. > :49:52.there is one big local election, with the runaway tram project,
:49:52. > :49:55.people saying they were used polling day to punish the
:49:55. > :50:01.politicians and parties they believe are responsible for that
:50:01. > :50:09.particular mess. Thank you for that. The problem is that the trams do
:50:09. > :50:16.not even work yet. After several hundred million pounds! There we go,
:50:16. > :50:21.Glasgow, an important battleground, just as London is. We will be here
:50:21. > :50:24.on the BBC on May 3rd. So, it's been a week of ups and downs. Two
:50:24. > :50:32.penguins in Scarborough are said to be making a full recovery after a
:50:32. > :50:35.break-in left them depressed. The Huddersfield MP, Barry Sheerman got
:50:35. > :50:38.upset over a bacon butty and Prince William gave a passionate speech
:50:38. > :50:43.demanding protection for endangered cats. Yes, it's been a busy few
:50:43. > :50:53.days. Other things may have happened as well! Here's Susannah
:50:53. > :50:53.
:50:53. > :50:57.It is official, we're in a double dip, but the government isn't
:50:57. > :51:03.budging on austerity, recession or no recession. Was this the week of
:51:03. > :51:08.the Murdoch's revenge? He told us Gordon Brown was an balanced, and
:51:08. > :51:12.we found out how close the media mogul is to his papers. If any
:51:12. > :51:17.politician wanted my opinions on major matters, they only had to
:51:17. > :51:23.read the editorial in The Sun. other Murdoch put the culture
:51:23. > :51:27.secretary in the firing line over the BSkyB bid. Jeremy Hunt has
:51:27. > :51:33.dodged the bonnet so far. A rare bit of glitz and glamour at the
:51:33. > :51:39.select committee, when Russell Brand Through in a gag about Abu
:51:39. > :51:46.Qatada. We cannot run out of time. And his next, Theresa May? She may
:51:46. > :51:52.not show up! And the baker's descended to tell the government is
:51:52. > :51:58.a shambles of a budget was half- baked.
:51:58. > :52:03.I knew other things had been happening, thanks! When the froth
:52:03. > :52:08.has settled over Murdoch and the pastiche, and the charity tax and
:52:08. > :52:12.so on, one thing doesn't go away, and may not for some time. The fact
:52:12. > :52:17.we are in recession, and even if technically we come out of it again,
:52:17. > :52:23.the best you can say is it this economy is flat mining, and the
:52:23. > :52:26.political implications for coalition are enormous. When you
:52:26. > :52:29.consider this government is in place and set itself up as the
:52:29. > :52:34.government that will deal with the deficit, and recession means that
:52:34. > :52:39.the deficit is not going to go away, they're not going to clear it by
:52:39. > :52:45.the next election, I think there is a real political problem. The
:52:45. > :52:54.politics over what to do about the deficit is becoming a rictus, they
:52:54. > :52:58.have ossified between the stick with a Plan B -- plan a or not. I
:52:58. > :53:04.think they're a lot of things you can be half way in between. But
:53:04. > :53:06.undoubtedly come when you get to 2015, you will see the
:53:06. > :53:09.Conservatives are attack from the right for not bringing down public
:53:09. > :53:14.spending more, and attacked by Labour for not dealing with the
:53:14. > :53:18.deficit. All of this is mounting up to be a significant political
:53:18. > :53:26.challenge. The position they could find themselves in is, if it sticks
:53:26. > :53:31.with Plan A, it is staffed, and did it doesn't, it is stuffed. Discuss!
:53:31. > :53:36.Attic or probably find the government -- will probably find
:53:36. > :53:42.the government coming up against it before then, this government will
:53:42. > :53:47.not be hugely enthusiastic about these policies. In a way it is
:53:47. > :53:52.lucky for Cameron that there has been at the Murdoch distraction of
:53:52. > :53:57.this week, it hasn't played well for them either, but it has taken
:53:57. > :54:04.away from this, which is by far the at standing political issue of our
:54:04. > :54:10.day. -- the outstanding. It is in a sense, in terms of the fall-out,
:54:11. > :54:18.which is why I emphasised Glasgow and London, because if Labour
:54:19. > :54:22.cannot win with Mr Livingstone and his glass go to the SNP, on a 4th,
:54:22. > :54:27.despite the ways of the government, the story becomes Ed Miliband again.
:54:27. > :54:33.I think there is a national story to tell, but it is more mixed than
:54:33. > :54:36.that. The Labour Party may never recover in Scotland and will find
:54:36. > :54:39.it hard to form an overall government for the foreseeable
:54:39. > :54:43.future, but also that the Conservatives in the North of
:54:43. > :54:48.England and some parts of the South West are going backwards as well
:54:48. > :54:52.for, and will not themselves be able to form a government. So I
:54:52. > :54:56.suspect that what next Thursday will tell us is there isn't any
:54:56. > :55:01.great queue and cry from one side or another, there is more of what
:55:01. > :55:11.we saw in 2010 and we may be muddling through to another
:55:11. > :55:16.coalition. And huge into the Peter both major parties. Which Mr Galic
:55:16. > :55:20.capitalised on. And now for something completely different.
:55:20. > :55:25.Being arrested isn't a lesson, it is just an AD appears to dig a blip.
:55:25. > :55:30.You need to demonstrate an awareness of the situation. The
:55:30. > :55:35.disease and condition of addiction does exacerbate it, if you were
:55:35. > :55:39.taking expensive drugs, you will end up committing picking --
:55:39. > :55:44.committing a crime, but we need to identify a degree of compassion,
:55:44. > :55:49.otherwise you look what you don't know what you're talking about. You
:55:49. > :55:53.can tell what party they are in from their questions. What about
:55:53. > :56:01.the victims of the crime! I think all the parties are interested in
:56:01. > :56:05.that. Of course we are, we're not saying, ignore the victims. We are
:56:05. > :56:14.running out of time. Time is in for that, we cannot run out of time.
:56:14. > :56:17.Who is next, Theresa May, she may not show up! It is not quite a
:56:18. > :56:27.variety show have fostered the EU are providing a bit of variety,
:56:27. > :56:32.making it more like Dad's Army. You have a 4.5 million twitter dollars,
:56:32. > :56:36.having gone through addiction and Rehabilitation, what is your
:56:36. > :56:40.message to young people who want to get involved in drugs, what could
:56:40. > :56:44.you say to them about the effect it has? My message isn't for young
:56:44. > :56:49.people, it is by people who have this condition up addiction. If you
:56:49. > :56:53.have that condition, there is help available for you, and I recommend
:56:53. > :56:57.abstinence based recovery. I think some people can safely take drugs,
:56:57. > :57:06.as long as it doesn't turn them into criminals, I did feel it is
:57:06. > :57:12.any of my business. -- I don't feel. His parliament right to reach out
:57:12. > :57:17.to these figures, or is it making a fool of itself? I think he
:57:17. > :57:23.delivered an important message there, and a touch -- it is
:57:23. > :57:29.probably a good thing. Do you people listen to Russell Brand any
:57:29. > :57:34.more than Keith Vaz on drugs? don't think that Keith Vaz has 4.5
:57:34. > :57:42.million twitter far worse. Following and listening are
:57:42. > :57:45.different things. But we are assuming that if Bristol branch
:57:45. > :57:53.does say things, people do pay attention, do we have evidence for
:57:53. > :58:00.that -- Russell Brand. I do think making Parliament relevant to the
:58:00. > :58:03.next generation... He was grandstanding. But I do think that
:58:03. > :58:07.politicians are always seen as a money permitting things like drug
:58:07. > :58:11.addiction for their own ends, and playing to their audiences, rather
:58:11. > :58:16.than helping those who were suffering, so I think there are
:58:16. > :58:23.gains on both sides. We will leave it there. Thank you very much, it
:58:23. > :58:28.was good to see you both. It has been a busy week. We are going to
:58:28. > :58:31.prepare for the weekend. Thanks to all our guests. If you want to see
:58:31. > :58:40.the full list of candidates standing for the election of the
:58:40. > :58:46.London Mayor, just got to the BBC website a. I will be back on BBC