:00:42. > :00:45.Good afternoon. Welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:45. > :00:51.The wettest April on record and flood warnings across the country,
:00:51. > :00:54.but the threat of a severe drought remains. We'll ask the Water
:00:54. > :00:59.Minister about claims we could be forced to use standpipes in the
:00:59. > :01:03.street this time next year. What's behind the excessive queues
:01:03. > :01:06.at our airports? As the Home Secretary convenes a summit with
:01:06. > :01:10.airline bosses, is the answer more border staff, or a relaxation of
:01:10. > :01:13.identity checks? It's the last day of campaigning
:01:13. > :01:18.for tomorrow's local elections, with plenty at stake for all the
:01:18. > :01:24.political parties. Jeremy Vine will be here with his comprehensive
:01:24. > :01:28.guide to all the votes. And would you miss your local rag
:01:28. > :01:38.if it went belly-up? Author and MP, Louise Mensch, on her campaign to
:01:38. > :01:44.
:01:44. > :01:47.save local newspapers. All that coming up in the next hour,
:01:47. > :01:57.and in case you were just tuning in to watch Prime Ministers Questions
:01:57. > :02:05.
:02:05. > :02:12.I bring you sad news - there is no PMQs today. That's because
:02:13. > :02:15.yesterday was the end of the Parliamentary session. The House of
:02:15. > :02:22.Commons isn't sitting until the Queen's Speech kicks off the new
:02:22. > :02:25.session next Wednesday. We'll have more on that later.
:02:25. > :02:27.First though, it seems hard to believe in the current climate, but
:02:28. > :02:36.the Government is warning that parts of Britain face a severe
:02:36. > :02:39.drought next year. Environment Secretary, Caroline Spelman, has
:02:39. > :02:47.told the BBC that radical action may be needed, including stand
:02:47. > :02:52.pipes in the street, if we have a third dry winter in a row. Jo,
:02:52. > :02:54.what's the background to all this? The Environment Agency has said
:02:54. > :03:03.that more than half of England is now under drought conditions,
:03:03. > :03:05.including the South West, South East, the Midlands and East Anglia.
:03:05. > :03:08.At the moment, there are seven water companies implementing
:03:08. > :03:14.hosepipe bans and threatening a �1,000 fine for those who don't
:03:14. > :03:18.For the 20 million people affected, this means that they cannot use a
:03:18. > :03:21.hosepipe to water plants, clean a car, fill or maintain a pond or
:03:21. > :03:25.clean paths and patios. All this despite us enduring the wettest
:03:25. > :03:31.April for 100 years. Nearly five inches of rain fell on average,
:03:31. > :03:34.almost double the long-term average. But experts say it's not enough.
:03:34. > :03:38.And it's come at the wrong time of year for stocks to be easily
:03:38. > :03:42.replenished. The year leading up to April was, for England, the third
:03:42. > :03:45.driest on record. Environment Secretary, Caroline Spelman, has
:03:45. > :03:48.said that we need to think more about using grey water, or non-
:03:48. > :03:58.drinking water for washing. And she has warned that unless action is
:03:58. > :04:01.
:04:01. > :04:06.taken now, the consequences could Were it is most unlikely we will
:04:06. > :04:12.have to have standpipes this year, if we have another dry winter, it
:04:12. > :04:16.is more likely next year. Although we have had a wet April, it has not
:04:16. > :04:19.solved the problem. We need a wet winter to get back to normal
:04:19. > :04:22.conditions. Caroline Spelman, speaking to the
:04:22. > :04:25.BBC's Inside Out programme which is on BBC One tonight at 7.30pm. We've
:04:25. > :04:33.been joined by Richard Aylard, from Thames Water and Tony Smith, chief
:04:33. > :04:38.executive of the Consumer Council for Water.
:04:38. > :04:45.Can I come to Richard first? How can we have a hosepipe ban and
:04:45. > :04:51.warnings of a drought when we have experienced something like an Old
:04:51. > :04:57.Testament deluge? Although we have had one of the wettest April's on
:04:57. > :05:02.record, the whole two years was the driest period ever recorded. In
:05:02. > :05:08.terms of personal finance, the current account is healthy for a
:05:08. > :05:15.couple of months. But the savings account is empty. Even with that
:05:15. > :05:20.rain? We have had more rain than we have had in the last 100 years, the
:05:20. > :05:27.reservoirs are 100% fall. 70% of your supplies come from reservoirs,
:05:27. > :05:32.what is the problem? The reservoirs are filled from the rivers, driven
:05:32. > :05:39.by groundwater. Which has seeped underground over the previous two
:05:40. > :05:44.Winters. Those boreholes are still at the lowest levels ever recorded.
:05:44. > :05:49.Some of this rain will work its way down there, but not very much. We
:05:49. > :05:54.might forget about this rain quickly, and we are catching what
:05:54. > :05:59.we can. But once the rivers have run off this little bit of rain,
:05:59. > :06:08.they will be at rock bottom Lower Falls and that is what we have to
:06:08. > :06:12.plan for. Like the way you say a little bit of rain. Are you going
:06:12. > :06:17.to provide evidence to continue with a hosepipe ban? Yes, we have
:06:17. > :06:20.reports from the Environment Agency and the levels in the boreholes and
:06:20. > :06:28.the care for modelling we do based on previous years, which shows how
:06:28. > :06:33.much water will be available. Because of these two dry Winters,
:06:33. > :06:41.the levels of a low as they have ever been in some cases. Tony Smith,
:06:41. > :06:46.do you accept that explanation, despite the reservoirs are full, it
:06:46. > :06:49.is the underground water we are more reliant on? We have been
:06:49. > :06:53.pushing on customers' behalf, the company needs to make the case for
:06:53. > :06:59.the hosepipe ban and to prove they are doing everything they can to
:06:59. > :07:05.avoid the effect. We will be asking three questions going forward. Do
:07:05. > :07:10.you need to continue these hosepipe bans, and we don't want it to last
:07:10. > :07:14.any longer than it needs to. The second question is, of the
:07:14. > :07:19.companies doing what they can in terms of extra investments,
:07:19. > :07:23.investments in leakage, in particular. But if there is a third
:07:23. > :07:28.dry winter, there aren't a more serious problems next year? And the
:07:28. > :07:32.third question, we will be asking the question as to whether the
:07:32. > :07:37.regulatory system and the assumptions the companies make to
:07:37. > :07:41.plan their long-term resource water management plans, on a fit for
:07:41. > :07:48.purpose? We are seeing more frequent hosepipe bans. Customers
:07:49. > :07:54.will ask, don't need to change the regulatory assessments -- system to
:07:54. > :07:59.address the problem? Can you say the hosepipe ban can be lifted in
:07:59. > :08:03.the next few months? You surely are not going to say it has got to stay
:08:03. > :08:09.for the rest of the year? If we have average rainfall between now
:08:09. > :08:15.and September we could lift the ban around them. Realistically, it will
:08:15. > :08:20.have to stay in place before we get some solid, winter rainfall. What
:08:20. > :08:25.about the investment? It is the critical thing that customers like
:08:25. > :08:30.me who seeks in the local streets and left for days, and it would
:08:30. > :08:39.help if companies like yours don't lose a quarter of the water you
:08:39. > :08:44.pump. And they are not left for days. Anecdotally, they are.
:08:44. > :08:49.company has hit six annual leakage the targets, and we are ahead of
:08:49. > :08:56.the leakage targets. We put more money and investments in, bearing
:08:56. > :08:59.in mind the company's profits? are many in that is needed to
:08:59. > :09:03.secure supplied. We need to work out through the water resource
:09:03. > :09:09.planning process, what is the best way to spend customers money to
:09:09. > :09:13.provide the security of supply they need? I want you both to stay at
:09:13. > :09:18.the end of this discussion, but Tony Smith, if we have another dry
:09:18. > :09:22.winter, can we avoid standpipes in the street? I don't think there is
:09:22. > :09:29.any need for standpipes. The companies need to demonstrate they
:09:29. > :09:32.are putting that investment in, and not waiting for a third dry winter.
:09:32. > :09:36.But they are proactive the getting in there and doing the right
:09:36. > :09:39.investments at the right time. Friends from me, but please stay
:09:39. > :09:41.with us. And we've been joined by the
:09:41. > :09:49.minister in charge of water conservation, Richard Benyon, who
:09:49. > :09:55.was listening to that. Eye you content Thames Water saying they
:09:55. > :09:59.will keep the hosepipe ban? Richard made the point, the rain, although
:09:59. > :10:06.Wellcome is not enough to solve the problems of groundwater. You are
:10:06. > :10:12.content? Nobody is content about these measures. I did not a happy,
:10:12. > :10:18.I said content. The reservoir in Sussex is only half full as we go
:10:18. > :10:22.into the summer. The Thames Water reservoirs are full. The water we
:10:22. > :10:27.use will come from the ground water levels which feed the rivers so
:10:27. > :10:33.we're not out of the woods yet. Have you asked for the evidence
:10:33. > :10:37.from Thames Water to justify these restrictions? We have talked to the
:10:37. > :10:41.Environment Agency and they are dealing with this on a daily basis
:10:41. > :10:48.and we are not imposing restrictions... Has your department
:10:48. > :10:52.called for evidence from Thames Water? Yes, we have evidence
:10:52. > :10:56.through the Environment Agency. you have considered? We have
:10:56. > :11:02.considered this on a weekly basis through the drought group which is
:11:02. > :11:04.chaired by the chief executive of the Environment Agency. One of the
:11:05. > :11:10.reasons we have become more dependent from water on the ground
:11:10. > :11:14.is because we have not built enough reservoirs. Why did your Government
:11:14. > :11:19.block a reservoir Thames Water wanted to build in Oxfordshire?
:11:19. > :11:24.Water companies have to take forward their long-term the swords
:11:24. > :11:33.management plans. They have to be examined independent of governments
:11:34. > :11:37.and the inquiry panel said they had not put enough evidence in place.
:11:37. > :11:47.Can I give the public the reason? This reservoir has been talked
:11:47. > :11:49.
:11:49. > :11:54.about since the 1980s. It you don't let them build reservoirs, here
:11:54. > :12:00.Secretary of State said last year when she Blok this "there was no
:12:00. > :12:05.immediate need for a new reservoir". We published last year, on long-
:12:05. > :12:08.term vision to assist water companies. We said we wanted to
:12:08. > :12:14.encourage more book trading of water between area so we will get
:12:14. > :12:20.the flow of water as -- water between areas where it is plentiful.
:12:20. > :12:26.When she said there was no immediate need for a reservoir, she
:12:26. > :12:31.was wrong? When you look at long- term plans... This is a long-term
:12:31. > :12:36.problem. The reason we rely on boreholes is because successive
:12:36. > :12:40.governments have not allowed new reservoirs to be built. That is why
:12:40. > :12:45.30% of water in the Thames region does not come from Reservoir
:12:45. > :12:49.anymore. The Secretary of State cannot tell us, on the one hand we
:12:49. > :12:53.could face standpipes next year, and then says there is no immediate
:12:53. > :12:58.need for a reservoir. You're looking at reservoirs as the
:12:58. > :13:02.solution. It is the Government getting a grip of water policy,
:13:02. > :13:07.determined that we are planning for these will weather events into the
:13:07. > :13:11.future. We said the way to do this is to in cent advise water
:13:11. > :13:15.companies and trade water with their neighbours. You will see
:13:15. > :13:20.water flowing from were it is plentiful to areas where it is not.
:13:20. > :13:26.We know it can work. We have worked this through with the economic
:13:26. > :13:31.regulator. This is the way forward. Yes, we need to look at building
:13:31. > :13:36.new reservoirs. Were you look again at this reservoir? There is a
:13:36. > :13:40.reservoir in East Anglia that has been expanded in size. I will look
:13:40. > :13:45.at any measure to make sure we are not facing the kind of problems we
:13:45. > :13:48.are facing at the moment. The Government has a grip of this.
:13:48. > :13:54.cannot have a grip of it if we have a hosepipe ban in the middle of a
:13:54. > :13:59.flood. How can you tell of you as you have a grip of it? When we came
:13:59. > :14:03.into power, we published our water white paper just before Christmas,
:14:03. > :14:09.which set out precisely how governments in the future can deal
:14:09. > :14:14.with this. It is not good enough at the moment is it? It is only four
:14:14. > :14:19.months after we publish the white paper. It is very clear how we can
:14:19. > :14:23.help water companies, how we can help them. We are recognising we
:14:23. > :14:29.have a different climate to what we had when this was last looked at,
:14:29. > :14:38.much too long ago. Caroline Spelman says if we have another dry winter
:14:38. > :14:42.we may need standpipes next year. How dry does the winter need to be?
:14:42. > :14:52.It is not inconceivable we could have another dry winter. But how
:14:52. > :14:57.dry? I cannot predict at this stage. I am not asking you to predict. I
:14:57. > :15:07.am asking you to tell me and the viewers how dry the winter will
:15:07. > :15:09.
:15:10. > :15:14.have to be? There are various What we can't predict is the
:15:14. > :15:18.weather. I haven't asked you to predict the weather. What we will
:15:18. > :15:22.do, if we don't get the kind of weather we need to replenish our
:15:22. > :15:27.stocks bat be wasn't that long ago your government was telling us to
:15:27. > :15:31.store petrol in jerry cans. don't need to do that now, you were
:15:31. > :15:36.wrong on that. Should we use these jerry cans we all bought to store
:15:36. > :15:39.water? Should we? We think households and businesses can play
:15:39. > :15:43.a big part in reducing the amount of water we use. People from other
:15:43. > :15:47.countries look at us in a bizarre way. They say, you're using
:15:47. > :15:52.drinking quality water to wash your cars and gardens. We set out plans
:15:52. > :15:55.in the future to see more innovation, more grey water systems,
:15:55. > :15:58.more rainwater harvesting. Instead of rising water companies to do
:15:58. > :16:03.precisely what happens in other countries. And yet you still
:16:03. > :16:06.predict standpipes next summer. are trying to change the whole way
:16:06. > :16:10.water is managed in this country. We have a vision which deals
:16:10. > :16:18.precisely what these points. The government has got a grip on this.
:16:18. > :16:23.You've said that. Viewers will judge. Richard Aylard, are you
:16:23. > :16:28.happy with these incentives? People are happy. The planning process
:16:28. > :16:30.sounds really dull, but it does mean that providing the ways
:16:30. > :16:34.customers the border are looked at and round, so that those which will
:16:34. > :16:37.cost customers least are the ones that get delivered first. We are
:16:37. > :16:40.looking at the next 25 years, that could mean a new reservoir, it
:16:40. > :16:44.could mean more water transfers schemes, it could mean other
:16:44. > :16:47.measures. But we've got work this through. In the meantime, you are
:16:47. > :16:51.making a false distinction between ground water and water coming into
:16:51. > :16:55.reservoirs. It is all from water, because it is groundwater which
:16:55. > :16:59.drives the rivers. Whether you tappets outbreak borehole pump it
:16:59. > :17:03.out parade reservoir, it's the same watered. Is it your company's
:17:03. > :17:07.policy to encourage water metering? We are going to be fitting more
:17:07. > :17:11.water meters as soon as our water resource plan is signed off. We'll
:17:11. > :17:15.be starting the first compulsory meters. Metering is the fairest way
:17:15. > :17:18.to pay for water. Can you explain why I approached your company two
:17:18. > :17:22.months ago to ask for a water meter and a company hasn't even bothered
:17:22. > :17:26.to get back to me? I will check that out. Someone should have been
:17:26. > :17:30.round to take a look at your property. A not only has nobody
:17:30. > :17:34.been round, no one has even written to me or called back. We've had
:17:34. > :17:38.nothing but silence. Your company told me that they couldn't get back
:17:38. > :17:41.for 30 days. After 30 days went be changed that to 30 working days. Is
:17:41. > :17:46.this an example of the kind of incompetence that your company is
:17:46. > :17:49.now famous for? It's not. We are not famous for that. But we have
:17:49. > :17:53.got a lot of people wanting metres at the moment because it is an
:17:53. > :17:59.opportunity to cut down on bills. We are working through those calls
:17:59. > :18:03.as fast as we can. Mr Smith, do you think at war water is being managed
:18:03. > :18:08.properly? I think there's a lot of scope already within the existing
:18:08. > :18:11.regulatory system that a company's -- for companies to look at what
:18:11. > :18:14.they need to do too Boyd more serious problems next year if there
:18:14. > :18:18.was a third dry winter. They can invest more in their networks. They
:18:18. > :18:21.can invest in leakage. They should be thinking of doing that partly at
:18:21. > :18:28.their expense. The regulatory system can allow that already. But
:18:28. > :18:33.the other issue is longer term. If you keep relying on hosepipe bans
:18:33. > :18:36.or more serious measures, over time the people's confidence in the
:18:36. > :18:40.system will be reduced. That's why we need to look at the assumptions
:18:40. > :18:47.on which we are planning water into the future, to make sure that we've
:18:47. > :18:52.got enough water now and enough water in 25 years' time. We will
:18:52. > :18:56.have to leave it there. It is election time tomorrow. Boating is
:18:56. > :19:00.taking place across the country in local elections. And a series of
:19:00. > :19:03.referendums on local mayors. Jeremy Vine has taken time out from
:19:03. > :19:07.presenting his Radio 2 programme to guide us through what is at stake
:19:07. > :19:11.tomorrow. Let me show you the map of England
:19:11. > :19:15.that all the council's Kolodin. And then the ones in played for the
:19:15. > :19:20.next 24 hours. An awful lot of blue for the Conservatives to lose. We
:19:20. > :19:24.go to Scotland and see a very different effect. Black. That is
:19:24. > :19:29.that colour the computer users but no overall control, a hung council.
:19:29. > :19:32.Let's show you the most powerful party. Independent councillors, the
:19:32. > :19:38.largest group in the north-west of Scotland, then the SNP very strong
:19:38. > :19:41.here, yellow, Lib Dems, Orange, Labour is red in the conurbations
:19:41. > :19:43.of Scotland and in the south, Conservative blue. In Wales, this
:19:43. > :19:48.Conservative blue. In Wales, this is how the last council elections
:19:48. > :19:51.left the nation of Wales. You can see in purple, independently
:19:51. > :19:56.controlled council. They used to be lots more red down the bottom,
:19:56. > :19:59.Labour being pushed back. In the north, Plaid Cymru in green.
:19:59. > :20:01.north, Plaid Cymru in green. There's a fascinating graph which
:20:01. > :20:11.shows performance by the Conservatives over Labour going
:20:11. > :20:13.
:20:13. > :20:18.back a few years. Let's go back to But things change, Gordon Brown
:20:18. > :20:23.comes in, David Cameron comes in for the Conservatives and by 2008,
:20:23. > :20:27.the Conservatives have a handy lead. We stick on this year and take note
:20:27. > :20:31.of the fact that this 18 % lead is the Conservative's lead over Labour
:20:31. > :20:36.when the council seats that are up tomorrow were last fought. They
:20:36. > :20:40.would need this kind of lead again just to stayed steady. That is
:20:40. > :20:44.going to be hard because watch, gradually the Conservatives come
:20:44. > :20:48.into government, Ed Miliband comes in and the Conservatives are left
:20:48. > :20:55.behind Labour. Similarly, I will show you the Labour Lib Dem Grappa.
:20:55. > :21:00.This is very worrying for the Lib Dems. 2005, Tony Blair again, this
:21:00. > :21:10.time it was Charles Kennedy. Labour were ahead, 5%. They'd gradually
:21:10. > :21:14.clawed it back, the Lib Dems. 2008, the crucial baseline year for these
:21:14. > :21:19.elections. But watch what happens when the coalition government is
:21:19. > :21:24.formed and Labour change their leader. You see this huge leap for
:21:24. > :21:27.later -- Labour. Last time these seats were up, they were ahead of
:21:27. > :21:30.Labour here and now, look at that Labour lead again. That will be
:21:30. > :21:35.very worrying for Lib Dem councillors in areas where Labour
:21:35. > :21:40.are pushing them. Other elections, let's not forget the London mayor,
:21:40. > :21:46.Boris Johnson, Ken Livingstone, all the other candidates. This was the
:21:46. > :21:49.result from 2008 on first preference vote. The Conservative
:21:49. > :21:54.vote is squeezing Labour. Boris Johnson gets the suburbs again, he
:21:54. > :21:58.may well win. There is a London Assembly election, took. Bring on
:21:58. > :22:02.the map of England again. I will highlight the 11 towns and cities,
:22:02. > :22:11.places like Birmingham, Doncaster, Sheffield, Manchester, where they
:22:11. > :22:20.are deciding whether raw not to You can see more of Jeremy and his
:22:20. > :22:23.fantastic graphics on vote 2012. We've been joined by a trio of top
:22:23. > :22:28.flight political operators. The Foreign Office minister, Jeremy
:22:28. > :22:33.Browne, Shadow Education Secretary, Stephen Twigg, and the Minister for
:22:33. > :22:37.decentralisation, Greg Clark. Welcome. Can I start with you, Greg.
:22:37. > :22:41.The Conservative Party had good results in 2008. What is it going
:22:41. > :22:47.to be like from the electorate this time? We did have good results last
:22:47. > :22:50.time and labour had disastrous results. But the message to the
:22:50. > :22:53.government and the Conservatives from the electorate. I would like
:22:54. > :23:00.to see these elections being about local issues. If in future we can
:23:00. > :23:03.get them about local issues, that's all the better it. I think it's
:23:03. > :23:07.very unfair to local councillors that these becoming referendum on
:23:07. > :23:12.national issues. I would like them to be local. But I understand that
:23:12. > :23:16.people do vote for national reasons. We are lower down and where we were
:23:16. > :23:20.last time so it's going to be a typical night. How difficult do you
:23:20. > :23:24.think it's going to be? I can see why you wanted to be on local
:23:24. > :23:30.issues. Do you accept that nationally, things really are very
:23:30. > :23:36.difficult post Budget? First of all, last time was a particularly good
:23:36. > :23:40.year for the Conservatives. I think Labour had 24 % last time. We've
:23:40. > :23:45.had a difficult few weeks. Frustrating though it is for me
:23:45. > :23:48.that people do tend to vote on national issues, that is there is
:23:48. > :23:52.something as we got to overcome. I think it will make a tighter
:23:52. > :23:58.contests locally, which I think is important for every Conservative to
:23:58. > :24:00.get out there and vote and not take it for granted. A touch of contest
:24:00. > :24:04.with the Liberal Democrats. Whichever way you look at it, it
:24:04. > :24:08.was pretty dreadful last year in places like some of the northern
:24:08. > :24:13.cities, you lost all the seats that were being contested at the time.
:24:13. > :24:17.What is your prediction? The one thing that you could say to sum up
:24:17. > :24:19.the graphic that Jeremy Vine was just presenting, is that parties
:24:19. > :24:23.and governments tend to have a harder time in mid-term local
:24:23. > :24:26.elections than parties that are out of government. My party is in
:24:26. > :24:29.government pretty much for the first time in living memory, so we
:24:29. > :24:33.are in a different position and where we've been in the past.
:24:33. > :24:37.you think it will be better? think we will do better than we did
:24:37. > :24:41.last year. I think we are on an upward trajectory. I think we will
:24:41. > :24:43.do better in the opinion polls. You see these are polls by Ugo of
:24:44. > :24:48.giving the Lib Dems very low ratings. I think we will do better
:24:48. > :24:51.than that tomorrow. I'm not saying it's not difficult for us. We have
:24:51. > :24:55.very good councillors in tight contests, but I think we have
:24:55. > :25:00.bottomed out. I think people respect a lot of the decisions we
:25:00. > :25:03.make in government. I think we will perform a cave. You say you are in
:25:03. > :25:07.government with the Conservatives, as everyone knows. Bedfellows
:25:07. > :25:11.politically in that sense in government, but electoral enemies
:25:11. > :25:13.when it comes to the doorstep locally. Is there campaigning and
:25:13. > :25:19.should be campaigning remain clean between the Conservatives and
:25:19. > :25:22.Liberal Democrats? I hope it will be clean between all parties. The
:25:22. > :25:25.two parties are in coalition nationally, I won't rehearse the
:25:25. > :25:29.reasons why. But the election should be about picking your local
:25:29. > :25:32.councillors, your local team to run your community. And the different
:25:32. > :25:36.parties, whether they are in coalition with each other or not,
:25:36. > :25:40.are putting forward their own candidates and prospectors or that
:25:40. > :25:43.area, people to pick the one that suits them best. Is it fair to
:25:43. > :25:50.attack the Conservatives at local level on issues that affect local
:25:50. > :25:56.areas? We can show this campaigning leaflets. This is on the pasty.
:25:56. > :25:59.Stop the Tories taxing our pasties. Is that fair game? I would want the
:25:59. > :26:08.leaflets to concentrate on the local issues that are being decided
:26:08. > :26:11.in the electorate. Pasties are important in Cornwall. I think that
:26:11. > :26:16.both parties in government need to take responsibility for the
:26:16. > :26:20.policies of the government. There are parts of the government Mannus
:26:20. > :26:23.Bairstow that are heavily influenced by the Lib Dems. -- the
:26:23. > :26:30.government manifesto. On behalf of the whole government, we got
:26:30. > :26:34.together and we take decisions for the whole country. Is that fair?
:26:34. > :26:44.Jeremy is a fair man. He admitted to me on the Sunday politics that
:26:44. > :26:45.
:26:45. > :26:50.it was unfair and he wanted to Your leader has spoken. I just said
:26:50. > :26:53.that I think the government, both parties in the government, should
:26:53. > :27:00.take responsibility for the Government's policies as a whole.
:27:00. > :27:05.It is not the Tory pasty tax then, is it?
:27:05. > :27:09.It is the Tories that of a problem. It is the pasty tax of the
:27:09. > :27:15.government as a whole, including both the parties that are in it.
:27:15. > :27:20.Chew on that for a moment. It's worth saying we are very used to
:27:20. > :27:25.the Lib Dems saying one thing... Looking at the opinion polls, you
:27:25. > :27:28.are in a more advantageous position nationally. You are ahead in the
:27:28. > :27:33.polls and improving ratings and some opinion polls in terms of
:27:33. > :27:38.trust with the economy. Why is it all going wrong in Glasgow and
:27:38. > :27:44.London? We don't know what's going to happen in Glasgow and London.
:27:44. > :27:48.They are behind them, why is that? Let's see. London will be close, it
:27:48. > :27:52.was close last time. We are working very hard in London to remind
:27:52. > :27:55.people that Boris Johnson is a Conservative candidate, he's on the
:27:55. > :27:58.right wing of the Conservative Party, he may try to distance
:27:59. > :28:01.himself. Ken Livingstone has a solid track record and are standing
:28:01. > :28:05.on the issues that mattered to Londoners, public-transport and
:28:05. > :28:08.crime. Why have there been some key figures in the party basically
:28:08. > :28:12.saying that Ken Livingstone is not the right candidate for the Labour
:28:12. > :28:16.Party? Even yesterday, Charles Clarke told me he didn't think Ken
:28:16. > :28:19.Livingstone was the best candidate for mayor. We have Lord Winston and
:28:19. > :28:25.Lord Sugar, that's not great in terms of Labour Party supporters
:28:25. > :28:29.not backing the candidate. Charles is a friend of mine and has been
:28:29. > :28:32.outspoken on all sorts of matters. The entire Labour Party has been
:28:32. > :28:37.campaigning for Ken Livingstone. He was properly selected by Labour
:28:37. > :28:40.Party members. In the end, tomorrow Londoners have a choice between a
:28:40. > :28:43.Labour candidate and a right-wing Conservative candidate in Boris
:28:43. > :28:47.Johnson. Let's have a look at some of the places where they are going
:28:47. > :28:52.to have referendums to have a mayor. Turnout for local elections is
:28:52. > :28:56.usually pretty low. Doncaster is voting on whether to scrap its
:28:57. > :29:01.mayor because it's been a disaster. Why do you think people will want
:29:01. > :29:06.another type of boat in class? think there's a big opportunity for
:29:06. > :29:10.all of our systems. Our cities, places like Liverpool and its
:29:10. > :29:15.elected mayor, Sheffield, Leeds, Bristol, Newcastle. They compete
:29:15. > :29:18.with other cities around the world. Those cities have to buy for
:29:18. > :29:22.investment. They, in my view, need someone who can speak for the whole
:29:22. > :29:25.city internationally to get jobs and investment. It is also my view,
:29:25. > :29:29.and I speak as someone who grew up in the north-east of England, I
:29:29. > :29:32.think places outside London have to acquire it a voice in our national
:29:32. > :29:35.affairs. To have someone to speak up for them in the way that
:29:36. > :29:40.successive mayors of London have done, I think it's overdue. But you
:29:40. > :29:50.can get someone rubbish. There's nothing to stop... Than that whole
:29:50. > :29:54.
:29:54. > :29:59.You can at least vote them out. What is the point that when you
:29:59. > :30:08.have only got 35-45% of people turning out to vote in local
:30:08. > :30:14.elections. You have low turnout, a spread of candidates are not that
:30:14. > :30:24.impressive. Look at London. London, I think has benefited from a mare.
:30:24. > :30:24.
:30:24. > :30:29.We have had two difference ones in 10 years. The interest in London
:30:29. > :30:35.politics. The debate between the London mayoral candidates have been
:30:35. > :30:41.all over the country. I would like to see the debate for the Mayor of
:30:41. > :30:47.Birmingham on Newsnight, on your programme, why should London have
:30:48. > :30:54.it all? London is lukewarm, when they introduce the first one?
:30:54. > :30:58.an MP in Liverpool and Liverpool council has decided to elect a
:30:58. > :31:02.mayor. I think it is vital for Liverpool and cities outside of
:31:02. > :31:08.London have a clear voice in national debate. We have 12
:31:08. > :31:14.candidates and I am very confident Joe Anderson will be elected
:31:14. > :31:18.tomorrow. Now, you may have noticed that there's no Prime Minister's
:31:18. > :31:21.Questions today. That's because Parliament has - in the official
:31:21. > :31:26.parlance - been prorogued. Yes, prorogued! I don't know what it
:31:26. > :31:33.means either, but this is what it looks like.
:31:33. > :31:38.Mr Speaker, the Lords who are authorised by virtue of her
:31:38. > :31:43.Majesty's decision, to declare Royal Assent to Bills passed in
:31:43. > :31:53.this Parliament and declare the prorogation of Parliament, desired
:31:53. > :31:53.
:31:53. > :32:37.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 43 seconds
:32:37. > :32:43.the presence of this Honourable We are commanded to deliver to you,
:32:43. > :32:47.her Majesty's speech in her Majesty's own words. My Lords and
:32:47. > :32:51.Members of the House of Commons, my Government's legislative programme
:32:51. > :32:58.has been based on the principles of freedom, fairness and
:32:58. > :33:04.responsibility. We do, in her Majesty's name and in obedience to
:33:04. > :33:10.her Majesty's commands, prorogued this Parliament to the 9th day of
:33:10. > :33:20.May, to the event here Holden and this Parliament is accordingly
:33:20. > :33:22.
:33:22. > :33:26.prorogued to Wednesday, the 9th day of May.
:33:26. > :33:31.The next episode of Gilbert and Sullivan will be next Wednesday
:33:31. > :33:41.when the Queen opens Parliament. Why does the chamber have to be
:33:41. > :33:46.summoned to the Lords for this? is tradition. Her baiting was
:33:46. > :33:55.tradition, but we stopped that. Public hanging was tradition, but
:33:55. > :34:00.we stopped that. There was a porky pie, these are not in the Queen's
:34:00. > :34:10.own words. They were written by the Government, correct? I assume that
:34:10. > :34:12.
:34:12. > :34:19.is the case. He launched reform will probably be in the Queen's
:34:19. > :34:23.Speech. He is in favour of it, he is worried you won't support him.
:34:23. > :34:27.think we need the Lords reform. Labour did a lot in Government to
:34:27. > :34:34.reform the Lords, but they did not finish the job. It is not the
:34:34. > :34:38.biggest issue at a time of this crisis. Are you encouraged by that?
:34:39. > :34:45.Not really, Labour have been lukewarm on the issue. They are
:34:45. > :34:51.blinded by their hatred of Nick Clegg, more than ambitious of what
:34:51. > :34:56.reforms should be done. I think we should reform it. I almost wish we
:34:56. > :35:00.had the hereditary upper house because it would then be a
:35:00. > :35:05.constitutional appendix which has hung around for hundreds of years
:35:05. > :35:09.and not been reformed. But we haven't Upper House made up of
:35:09. > :35:14.hereditary peers, people who could not get a letter to the House of
:35:14. > :35:21.Commons. People who were elected to the House of Commons, but were
:35:21. > :35:26.rejected it and got elected to the upper house instead. No other
:35:26. > :35:34.country estates, we must adopt this ourselves. That is the next term
:35:34. > :35:39.coming up. As you look back on the first couple of years, did you try
:35:39. > :35:45.to do too much or too little? need to get on with things from the
:35:45. > :35:49.beginning, to give them time to work. Take the economy. The initial
:35:49. > :35:54.budget, it was essential to do it at the beginning, to make sure you
:35:54. > :36:02.could get confidence back of international investors so we are
:36:02. > :36:07.on a trajectory. You did not think we would be back in recession by
:36:07. > :36:12.the time of the next Queen's Speech did you? The Institute for Fiscal
:36:12. > :36:16.Studies has said we would be in a worse situation. We will never know
:36:16. > :36:24.that. Do you think you should have done more, or has it been a
:36:24. > :36:32.struggle? You have had an number of private grief, the fiasco of the
:36:32. > :36:37.NHS, the Planning Bill, pasty taxes, charity tax, the list is endless.
:36:37. > :36:41.Did you bite off more than you could shoot? When you come into
:36:41. > :36:49.Government, and you have a chance to change the country and do the
:36:49. > :36:54.things you set out to do. The Academy's Bill, free schools, so
:36:54. > :36:57.kids, and right now, this September and next will have the chance to go
:36:57. > :37:02.to better schools. It would have been criminal to delay that until
:37:02. > :37:10.the end of the Parliament. He took to be impatient to get on with
:37:10. > :37:16.things, is the right demeanour. Education is the mishandling of
:37:16. > :37:25.schools for the future, cancelling the school's partnership. It could
:37:25. > :37:30.have been done under our legislation. It ran out of steam be
:37:30. > :37:37.-- by the time he left Government because Gordon Brown was not that
:37:37. > :37:42.keen on them. Can you clarify, one of the big changes is the free
:37:42. > :37:46.schools programme. Schools financed by the state but free of local
:37:46. > :37:52.Government control. You have been like a shuttlecock on this issue.
:37:52. > :37:56.Are you for it or against it? voted against the policy. Some of
:37:56. > :38:00.the schools being set up will be fantastic schools and no Labour
:38:00. > :38:04.Government would close down fantastic schools. I believe some
:38:04. > :38:11.of the good, free schools could have been established under
:38:11. > :38:16.Labour's legislation. Is it your policy, if you get back into polls
:38:16. > :38:21.-- power, will you close the free schools? Of course we won't. We
:38:21. > :38:27.will want to ensure there is fair admissions, funding and I am
:38:27. > :38:31.worried free schools open so far have fewer children from poorer
:38:31. > :38:41.backgrounds. There is the woodpecker Academy in Enfield doing
:38:41. > :38:43.a fantastic job. And we wouldn't close that.
:38:44. > :38:46.Should airlines or even airline passengers have to pay for passport
:38:46. > :38:49.checks at airports to prevent the kind of chaos we've seen at
:38:49. > :38:53.London's Heathrow airport? The Government has said it will deploy
:38:53. > :38:56.80 extra staff from tomorrow to try to cut queues, which are said to
:38:56. > :39:00.have lasted as long as two-and-a- half hours for people with non-EU
:39:00. > :39:03.passports. And with predictions of a summer of chaos unless ministers
:39:03. > :39:07.get a grip on the situation, reports this morning say Number Ten
:39:07. > :39:11.wants the airport operator to pick up the tab for extra staff ahead of
:39:11. > :39:14.the Olympics and the Queen's Diamond Jubilee. But the airlines
:39:14. > :39:23.have been clear it's up to the Government to sort this out. Here's
:39:23. > :39:29.the head of BA, Willie Walsh. it means sorting it out immediately.
:39:29. > :39:34.I don't want to hear sounds about don't worry about the Olympics. We
:39:34. > :39:38.need to get this sorted now, it is damaging the reputation of the UK.
:39:38. > :39:42.Turning away tourists and business people the Government are trying to
:39:42. > :39:47.attract into the UK to generate growth and jobs. It is having a
:39:47. > :39:54.damaging effect on the UK. We need to address it immediately.
:39:54. > :39:58.Airline boss Willie Walsh speaking yesterday. What a dreadful image
:39:58. > :40:02.and welcome but people coming to this country. You travel through
:40:02. > :40:08.airport all the time probably, but don't have to wait 2.5 hours, I
:40:08. > :40:16.suspect? What impression does this leave to the rest of the world?
:40:16. > :40:20.bad impression, and we need to get it sorted. I dispute that 2.5 hour,
:40:20. > :40:23.and the Government is saying it took 1.5 hours, but it is still too
:40:23. > :40:28.long. We need to get the balance right because people are concerned
:40:28. > :40:33.about security. I have never seen a national newspaper campaigning for
:40:33. > :40:39.less rigorous controls. We want to make sure our borders are secured.
:40:39. > :40:44.But we want to be welcoming and don't want to look like we are
:40:44. > :40:48.naturally suspicious of people coming on holiday, or coming for
:40:48. > :40:54.business or the Olympics. Theresa May wrong to tighten up
:40:54. > :40:59.those border checks, which must have that riveted to those it used?
:40:59. > :41:03.I think you need to have rigger in terms of policing are boarders, but
:41:03. > :41:08.we need the capacity, particularly if the people coming in and out,
:41:08. > :41:12.are coming in and out in patterns that are harder to predict.
:41:12. > :41:16.Something like the Olympics, Heathrow pretty much operates at
:41:16. > :41:20.capacity already. We won't see a huge surge of extra people coming
:41:20. > :41:24.through Heathrow at the Olympics, but more people coming into Britain
:41:24. > :41:31.and we want to send out a message they are welcome here, so we need
:41:31. > :41:37.to get it right. Is it a result as cuts in the number of border staff?
:41:37. > :41:41.For too long, we have had queues at Heathrow. Willie Walsh said it has
:41:41. > :41:46.been an underlying problem, but it has got particularly bad now and it
:41:46. > :41:54.has coincided with cuts in the number of border staff. The figures
:41:54. > :41:58.leaked by Labour said it has been cut by 10% since 2010. Are you
:41:58. > :42:04.saying there is no correlation? Theresa may need to get people on
:42:04. > :42:10.to the front line and out of back offices. What is the front line?
:42:10. > :42:15.There are desk, anecdotally it says desks are empty at peak-time is and
:42:15. > :42:20.must be a result as fewer staff. Otherwise why is Damian Green
:42:20. > :42:26.bringing in new staff? It is the flexibility to respond when there
:42:26. > :42:30.are sudden peaks and unexpected clutches of people who are arriving.
:42:30. > :42:35.That is what is required. It is emphasising where we are before the
:42:35. > :42:40.Olympics. It is not just the three weeks of the Olympics we need to be
:42:40. > :42:45.concerned about. There is a security threat, a terrorist threat.
:42:45. > :42:48.And no doubt people will be trying to infiltrate themselves into the
:42:48. > :42:53.country now. It is important we need to be rigorous about our
:42:53. > :42:58.borders. But we need to do it in a way to minimise the Jews. But it
:42:58. > :43:05.cannot be done at the expense of security. How will you minimise the
:43:05. > :43:10.queues, are part from bringing in more staff? It is how you deploy it.
:43:10. > :43:18.There will be a team of people available at short notice to come a
:43:18. > :43:25.man desks where they are needed and keep the queues down. The staff are
:43:25. > :43:28.being brought in on a temporary basis. And there are 1,500 Mork of
:43:28. > :43:34.cuts over the next three years to the border staff. There is an image
:43:34. > :43:40.of chaos being presented by the Government. Dispute the premise
:43:40. > :43:48.Labour comes up with whenever that Government makes changes, the more
:43:48. > :43:54.people you have, the better service. You cannot say you're bringing
:43:54. > :43:57.people in temporarily to solve it. If you have people sitting around
:43:57. > :44:02.at quiet times, but not enough people at the Times, you can
:44:02. > :44:08.redeploy people more effectively. It is about managing it better. But
:44:08. > :44:13.the idea Labour goes back to, the more money and bigger deficit you
:44:13. > :44:17.one up, the better public services will be, we tried it for 13 years.
:44:17. > :44:21.I am not saying that. We have the Government suggesting the airline
:44:21. > :44:24.up passengers should have to pay for this. Do you think it is right
:44:24. > :44:28.the airline operator should put their hands in their pockets, pay
:44:28. > :44:33.higher landing fees to sort out these problems and then that will
:44:33. > :44:41.be passed on to customers? There is a responsibility on behalf of the
:44:41. > :44:44.Government to mount an operation to process people properly. Should the
:44:44. > :44:49.airlines pay for that? I don't think there should be an extra levy
:44:49. > :44:54.to provide this service. It is reported as a Downing Street plan?
:44:54. > :44:58.I have not seen that. He wouldn't support it? It is right the
:44:58. > :45:02.Government has an obligation to look after the border, give decent
:45:02. > :45:08.scrutiny to people coming in here. But for many years, it has been the
:45:08. > :45:15.case people have had to queue for too long to enter the country.
:45:15. > :45:19.On May 31st I will arrive at Terminal 5 at 6:30am. My have to go
:45:19. > :45:23.through customs and immigration to pick a papers and then catch the
:45:23. > :45:29.8:30am flight to New York. Will the Government make sure I get the
:45:29. > :45:33.flights? Do you want us to do special favours? No, the opposite.
:45:33. > :45:41.Will the Government make sure that border control is efficient enough
:45:41. > :45:51.for me to be able to do that normal interlining? I do go to lots of
:45:51. > :45:54.airports. You go through the VIP lounge? What's on airports abroad
:45:54. > :46:02.are more modern than ours so there is an airport review in the South
:46:02. > :46:06.East. I'm sure you'll have a very Would you miss your local newspaper
:46:06. > :46:12.if it shut up shop all went from daily to weekly? Could you get by
:46:12. > :46:15.without a daily dose of the local Gazette, Enquirer or pupil? An
:46:16. > :46:21.increasing number are switching from daily to weekly editions,
:46:21. > :46:24.putting more of their content online. -- online. But Louise
:46:24. > :46:29.Mensch discovered this was happening to her local paper and
:46:29. > :46:37.decided to fight back. She bought one instead of two copies. No, what
:46:37. > :46:41.should the government do to help local papers? This is her soapbox.
:46:41. > :46:44.Local papers on at the heart of their community. In another week
:46:44. > :46:48.where the national press has been dominating the headlines at the
:46:48. > :46:52.Leveson Inquiry, what's the most popular print medium in the UK?
:46:52. > :46:57.Over 33 million people Amanda read their local paper. That is over 70
:46:57. > :47:01.% of the UK's entire adult population. The internet is no
:47:01. > :47:06.substitute for good local reporting. I'm a social media, but the best
:47:06. > :47:09.local stories can't be summed up in a tweed. Anna Usborne iPad app,
:47:09. > :47:14.that excludes two groups of people - the elderly and those on low
:47:14. > :47:18.incomes. The biggest winners from decline of that daily local press
:47:18. > :47:22.are going to be politicians. Who else is going to hold your local MP
:47:22. > :47:26.your local councillors to account? A vibrant local press is vital to
:47:26. > :47:28.the future of our democracy. If the pure profit motive doesn't work for
:47:28. > :47:33.local newspapers, the government needs to look at alternative ways
:47:33. > :47:37.of making it work. Just like footballers looking at community
:47:37. > :47:39.support as Trust, the same model of community ownership is one that
:47:39. > :47:42.could be viable for local newspapers. When we consider how
:47:42. > :47:46.many things receive national subsidies that only have a minority
:47:46. > :47:50.appeal, surely local newspapers at the heart of their towns and
:47:50. > :47:53.villages deserve some of that government support as well. Local
:47:53. > :47:57.papers are not only loved by people in their local communities. They
:47:57. > :48:00.are the only vehicle that holds local politicians to account, and
:48:00. > :48:04.they have an irreplaceable role in our local democracy. They can't be
:48:04. > :48:09.replaced by the internet, and we have to look at community ownership
:48:09. > :48:11.as a model going forward. We have to ask ourselves if some government
:48:11. > :48:18.subsidies shouldn't be targeted towards something that people
:48:18. > :48:24.really use, enjoy and knead on a daily basis. Louise Mensch, gone
:48:24. > :48:27.from green to black, she joins us in the studio. Here is a product in
:48:27. > :48:31.decline, if you are people buying it, it probably doesn't have a
:48:32. > :48:37.future, and you want the government to subsidise it? When did you join
:48:37. > :48:41.Michael Foot's Labour Party? No, I want a level playing field. Other
:48:41. > :48:44.forms of local media are heavily subsidised. The biggest competitor
:48:44. > :48:48.to local papers are council freesheets, which are funded
:48:48. > :48:52.entirely by the ratepayer. The government is trying to get rid of
:48:52. > :48:57.it... You got the Minister for decentralisation here. Surely that
:48:57. > :49:01.should be an issue for people to determine themselves. The people of
:49:01. > :49:09.London didn't like the sheep to very much, they voted for Boris.
:49:09. > :49:14.Indeed, and they should be voting for Boris tomorrow as well. It is
:49:14. > :49:18.because it is entirely difficult to vote one way on the things that
:49:19. > :49:22.concern you about your local council, but say you are going to
:49:22. > :49:26.withhold your vote because you deliberately deliver a freesheet.
:49:26. > :49:30.Eric Pickles has tried to stamp down on these freesheets but many
:49:30. > :49:34.councils are still doing them. And the plans for local television,
:49:34. > :49:38.under the Government's plans they propose the BBC will be forced to
:49:38. > :49:41.buy content for local television. That is clearly an indirect subsidy.
:49:42. > :49:46.You've got the Department of Transport talking about pulling its
:49:46. > :49:50.ads from local papers, that's revenue they need to survive.
:49:50. > :49:54.have a reality check. Local newspapers are not declining
:49:54. > :50:01.because some councils have propaganda freesheets. Yes, they
:50:01. > :50:05.are. There is a diet rich -- they are a direct competitor. They are
:50:05. > :50:11.some of the biggest cannibals of the market. But they've lost the
:50:11. > :50:15.huge advertising market. Can I give you an example of one? Here is the
:50:15. > :50:25.newspaper that comes out weekly in Tower Hamlets. It is a 40 paid
:50:25. > :50:26.
:50:26. > :50:30.weekly newspaper. It has the TV listings here in great detail. It
:50:30. > :50:34.is full of advertising. I think this is unfair. This is council?
:50:34. > :50:40.It's the local council. I think it's unfair for the local council
:50:40. > :50:44.to be using taxpayers' resource to put out of business what is very
:50:44. > :50:48.important in every local community. The local paper is a vigorous
:50:48. > :50:51.scrutiny of the council. A chilly as the minister for
:50:51. > :50:57.decentralisation, that is up to the people of Tower Hamlets to the
:50:57. > :51:00.sides. If you are using power to try to shut out and shut down in
:51:00. > :51:08.some cases the only people who can hold you to account, I think that
:51:08. > :51:11.is unfair. What we've said is it is fair for people to communicate
:51:11. > :51:16.their services and what they do, the councils, but not to put out a
:51:16. > :51:19.weekly newspaper. So you are telling people what the shape of
:51:20. > :51:23.the ring should be. We are saying there is a code which would be
:51:23. > :51:28.reasonable for no more than four Tynesider for a council to put out
:51:28. > :51:33.a newsletter. Macro managing now. That is not very decentralised. Why
:51:33. > :51:38.don't you go and hold their hand and tell them what to write? It is
:51:38. > :51:41.a question of not using power and abusing power to actually
:51:41. > :51:46.entrenched your grip on it. You have to have other voices, you have
:51:46. > :51:49.to have diversity and competition. It councils are using public funds
:51:49. > :51:53.to drive out businesses, I think that is wrong. Of course it is
:51:53. > :51:57.wrong, but I agree it should be decided at a local level. I don't
:51:57. > :52:01.think government should be intervening legally. I think Louise
:52:01. > :52:04.has raised some important points today. Local papers are important
:52:04. > :52:07.but they are under threat for lots of different reasons. There are
:52:07. > :52:10.very few local authorities that publish something like that. It's
:52:10. > :52:14.the first time I've seen it. I don't think that is the main factor
:52:14. > :52:19.in the decline of local newspapers. In Liverpool, the Daily Post has
:52:19. > :52:24.just gone weekly. Do you have something like that in Liverpool?
:52:24. > :52:28.Not like that. I've never seen something like that. I know it is a
:52:28. > :52:32.factor in advertising. I remember in Enfield, having it raised by
:52:32. > :52:37.local newspapers there. But I think it should be decided locally.
:52:37. > :52:42.agree with everything that Stephen has just said. I think Louise made
:52:42. > :52:45.some important points. I think they are very important to local and
:52:46. > :52:53.civic life. But I think the reasons they are declining may in part be
:52:53. > :52:58.influenced by that, but there are wider factors at play. The only
:52:58. > :53:01.thing that is going to hold a local council to account is being trodden
:53:01. > :53:05.or Le Beau Bai that same local council. Most local newspapers, and
:53:05. > :53:09.I started in local newspapers, is that they are in the pockets of the
:53:09. > :53:14.local council. You don't get B-list journalism from most local
:53:14. > :53:19.newspapers. I challenge that. I think local newspapers are there to
:53:19. > :53:24.hold both MPs and their councils to account. Local newspapers didn't do
:53:24. > :53:27.the expenses scandal. In order to carry out the sort of
:53:27. > :53:31.investigations you are talking about into local councils, that is
:53:31. > :53:34.expensive. I'm not saying that it is right that it shouldn't be there,
:53:34. > :53:40.but it is expensive to do. Who will find that level, apart from the
:53:40. > :53:44.idea of a big state subsidy, to fund high-powered local journalists
:53:44. > :53:47.to do that? We do not need a big state subsidy, we need a level
:53:47. > :53:54.playing field. We need the Department of Transport not to pull
:53:54. > :53:59.their advertisements from the back of local papers. My local paper has
:53:59. > :54:06.been holding the council to account. Let's move on to the issue which to
:54:06. > :54:16.be more famous for. I'm sure you're getting good coverage in your local
:54:16. > :54:22.
:54:22. > :54:29.Let me come back to this. There is a clear argument, you have said
:54:29. > :54:31.quite clearly that this key phrase in the select committee report on
:54:31. > :54:37.Murdoch, that he is not a fit person to run an international
:54:37. > :54:41.company. I will come to international in a minute. Whereas
:54:41. > :54:45.Mr Farrelly, a Labour MP of the select committee, said this was
:54:45. > :54:49.discussed. You are quite clear it was not discussed. It was not
:54:49. > :54:52.discussed. I've just seen Paul in the House of Commons, and he has
:54:52. > :54:56.admitted that he got himself confused. The amendments were
:54:56. > :55:00.tabled before Easter by Mr Tom Watson and never discussed at all
:55:00. > :55:10.until they were brought up on Monday. I've confirmed this today
:55:10. > :55:13.with Damien colleague -- with my colleagues. He said he was ambushed.
:55:13. > :55:16.He was asked a straight question. He said he was caught unawares and
:55:16. > :55:20.hadn't seen what I said on Newsnight. There is a difference in
:55:20. > :55:25.saying and amend was -- an amendment was tabled and saying it
:55:25. > :55:28.was discussed. It was not discussed until Monday. And no Labour MP
:55:28. > :55:33.requested we discuss what has been the headline of the report, that
:55:33. > :55:37.Rupert Murdoch was not a fit person. I told Tom it would be the headline
:55:37. > :55:41.and that everything else would be overshadowed. I think he'd worked
:55:41. > :55:45.that out. Paul Rees on the committee offered Tom our vote on
:55:45. > :55:49.the report if he would take that out, but that was only discussed
:55:49. > :55:52.after nine months of investigation on Monday. Or clarity, on the issue
:55:52. > :55:57.of whether Rupert Murdoch is a fit person to run an international
:55:57. > :56:02.company or any kind of major media company, there was no discussion.
:56:02. > :56:06.No discussion until Monday, the final meeting we had. All of our
:56:06. > :56:13.investigations, nine months on, it wasn't discussed. It was tabled
:56:13. > :56:17.before Easter and not discussed until Monday. Thank you but
:56:17. > :56:21.clarifying that. Every once in a while on The Daily Politics, we
:56:21. > :56:24.hear from a politician so loyal, and we hear that often, he will
:56:24. > :56:27.bravely agree with anything, absolutely anything his or her
:56:27. > :56:30.leader has to say. They might consider jumping in front of a bus
:56:30. > :56:34.if they thought there was a promotion in it, present company
:56:34. > :56:39.accepted. I'm not sure about that!
:56:39. > :56:43.But even Westminster's finest yes men could learn a thing or two from
:56:43. > :56:48.the Australian Minister being interviewed him on Sky News
:56:48. > :56:52.Australia. Do you think you should return to the Speaker's chair while
:56:52. > :56:56.the civil claims are still being played out? I understand that the
:56:56. > :57:02.Prime Minister has addressed this in a press conference in Turkey. I
:57:02. > :57:07.haven't seen what she said. But let me say I support what it is that
:57:07. > :57:11.she said. And on, you haven't seen what she said... But I support what
:57:11. > :57:15.my Prime Minister has said. What is your view? My view is what the
:57:15. > :57:23.Prime Minister's view is. Surely you must have your own a view on
:57:23. > :57:27.this. No, it is such a general question. It is a specific question
:57:27. > :57:31.about someone who should we turn back to the Speaker's chair while
:57:31. > :57:34.facing charges of sexual harassment. There should be no tolerance for
:57:34. > :57:38.sexual harassment. That is my view. On the other hand, these matters
:57:38. > :57:42.have yet to be established and their support for our Prime
:57:42. > :57:48.Minister has said. But you don't know what that is. I'm sure she is
:57:48. > :57:51.right. I wish my children would say that! That was the Australian
:57:51. > :57:58.Workplace Relations Minister. I will offer it to you, has that ever
:57:58. > :58:03.happened to you? That has been brought over here by the whips
:58:03. > :58:11.office as a training video. What about for you? What lessons do you
:58:11. > :58:16.take away from that? I agree with that. It could get very confusing.
:58:16. > :58:21.That is hilarious. But he knew what he was doing. He didn't stumble
:58:21. > :58:26.into that. When we do this again, do you think he will have had a
:58:26. > :58:36.promotion? He will be Deputy Prime Minister! His boss might not be
:58:36. > :58:39.
:58:39. > :58:44.Prime Minister! That is it for today. Our thanks to our guests.