23/05/2012

:00:43. > :00:49.Good morning, folks. This is the Daily Politics. Today's top story:

:00:49. > :00:54.It should we be waving farewell to plan A and embracing plan B? How do

:00:54. > :00:58.you stimulate growth without borrowing even more? That is the

:00:58. > :01:02.$64 billion question. After the G8 get together in the

:01:02. > :01:06.USA which resolved nothing, European leaders meet in Brussels

:01:06. > :01:09.tonight in yet another attempt to sort it all out. We will have the

:01:09. > :01:13.latest but don't hold your breath for a breakthrough.

:01:13. > :01:18.Get your bunting out, it is the last PMQs before the Jubilee and a

:01:18. > :01:22.rather long recess. Is this man in a hard hat the

:01:22. > :01:25.Socialist? And are you depressed over

:01:25. > :01:31.impending eurogeddon and the possible grexit? If you are,

:01:31. > :01:41.chillax. Let me guess, nobody has a clue what I am talking about. For a

:01:41. > :01:43.

:01:43. > :01:48.change! What does that mean? How much do we spend every year on

:01:48. > :01:52.education?! All that and more coming up in the next 90 minutes of

:01:52. > :01:56.should the award-winning television. You do not need to be at the Cannes

:01:56. > :01:59.Film Festival, but I wish I was. You just need to be at home

:01:59. > :02:03.watching BBC Two because we have some wannabes on the programme

:02:03. > :02:08.fighting it out for the leading actor award. Brad Pitt, eat your

:02:08. > :02:14.heart out. Jeremy Browne, a Lib Dem. And the shadow health secretary,

:02:15. > :02:17.Andy Burnham. Welcome to you both. Let's turn our attention to Iran.

:02:17. > :02:24.Diplomats are meeting in Baghdad today to discuss their nuclear

:02:24. > :02:27.programme. Israel along with America has views to rule out a

:02:27. > :02:31.pre-emptive strike on their nuclear facilities. Senior ministers in the

:02:31. > :02:41.UK have taken legal advice on what role if any Britain might play in

:02:41. > :02:45.the event of an attack on Iran by Israel, America or by both. Is it

:02:45. > :02:49.true that senior Lib Dems have been getting together to discuss what

:02:50. > :02:53.your party's position would be if an attack took place? I think we

:02:53. > :02:58.have to plan for every possible scenario. That is the Government as

:02:58. > :03:02.a whole, but also each individual political party, which needs to

:03:02. > :03:05.think through what its response would be. So we are going through

:03:05. > :03:10.those contingency planning exercises. But we do not wish for

:03:10. > :03:13.that end. Nobody does. We hope the talks are successful. We agree with

:03:14. > :03:17.the Iranians. They say they don't want to clear weapons and we don't

:03:17. > :03:20.want them to have them. The question is how we get to that

:03:20. > :03:24.point and that is what we are trying to achieve. I get that the

:03:24. > :03:34.Government is doing contingency planning, they do that all the time.

:03:34. > :03:37.The National Security Council, that is part of their function. But what

:03:37. > :03:41.about a political party getting together? The Lib Dems are not

:03:41. > :03:45.doing contingency planning. You are working out what your response as

:03:45. > :03:50.the party would be. I understand the point that you are making but I

:03:50. > :03:52.think you are magnifying it. So you have met? We have our own party

:03:52. > :03:58.mechanisms were discussing big issues that are potentially

:03:58. > :04:05.contentious. Including Iran? pleading Iran. And what conclusion

:04:05. > :04:08.have you come to? -- including Iran. We have not come to a conclusion as

:04:08. > :04:14.such, because we are discussing their thinking, which is true of

:04:14. > :04:18.other areas as well. There is no view at all? I think one of the

:04:18. > :04:22.things that the party is interested in discussing is that there are so

:04:22. > :04:27.many different aspects of what the impact would be on the wider Middle

:04:28. > :04:31.East, on oil supplies, on human rights. There are all kinds of

:04:31. > :04:36.features of this very difficult situation. I think people will want

:04:36. > :04:40.to discuss that. It would be hugely disruptive and a massive moment for

:04:40. > :04:43.foreign policy if it gets to the worst case scenario. It would be

:04:43. > :04:48.strange political parties only started thinking about their views

:04:48. > :04:52.on the subjects if and when that day arrives. Is it possible to say

:04:52. > :04:56.what Labour's response would be if there was an attack on Iran?

:04:56. > :05:01.don't think it is possible to say that today. This weekend there was

:05:01. > :05:08.a worrying development. A senior figure in the Iranian military was

:05:08. > :05:11.talking about for annihilation of Iran. -- full annihilation. That is

:05:11. > :05:15.the first time a military figure has used that kind of language.

:05:15. > :05:20.That is the language of a nuclear attack. I find that very worrying

:05:20. > :05:23.indeed. Jeremy is absolutely right. Of course parties will discuss

:05:23. > :05:27.these things in private, and the Government will discuss these

:05:27. > :05:31.things in private. That is apparently what happened at the

:05:31. > :05:33.National Security Council last week. The surprising thing is the

:05:33. > :05:36.decision to brief that the conclusions of the National

:05:36. > :05:40.Security Council on the day that very important talks are taking

:05:40. > :05:44.place in Baghdad. The question I would be interested in hearing from

:05:44. > :05:48.Jeremy Browne on, is why the Government is interested in doing

:05:48. > :05:51.that today? It seems to be a deliberate move and it has raised

:05:51. > :05:55.the temperature and made it less likely for the talks to be

:05:55. > :05:59.successful. How do you answer that? I am not aware of how that came to

:05:59. > :06:02.be in the media and on the BBC this morning so I cannot discuss the

:06:02. > :06:06.communications of it. We are looking at how we can make the

:06:06. > :06:11.talks successful and that requires us to have a very tough and unified

:06:11. > :06:15.diplomatic stance on EU sanctions on oil, for instance. I was in

:06:15. > :06:20.Japan and South Korea last week, and they have difficulties with oil

:06:20. > :06:23.imports. They need to import it to keep their economies going and they

:06:23. > :06:26.import from Iran, so we are conversing around the globe about

:06:26. > :06:31.how we can keep the club on the Iranians in that way but also

:06:32. > :06:36.keeping the door open to political settlement. This is political

:06:36. > :06:40.policy, and it is boiler plate stuff, to be honest. Let's cut to

:06:40. > :06:44.the chase. If there is an attack on Iran, which is nothing to do with

:06:44. > :06:51.us, but if there is and the Iranians move to close the Straits

:06:51. > :06:57.of the news, where huge amount of the oil is taken out, do we join

:06:57. > :07:01.with the Americans to keep it open? -- the Straits of Hormuz. I cannot

:07:01. > :07:09.speculate on that. 20% of the world's oil goes through those

:07:10. > :07:14.straits. The impact on the global economy would be a massive one, if

:07:14. > :07:18.that happened but me idly speculating will not help. It does

:07:18. > :07:22.not help, so let's move on. The David Cameron once said that

:07:22. > :07:26.giving prisoners the vote made him feel physically ill and it has

:07:26. > :07:32.never been a popular plan. In February, 2011, MPs rejected the

:07:32. > :07:36.idea by 234 votes to 22. Yesterday the European Court of Human Rights

:07:36. > :07:40.upheld a ruling that a blanket ban on inmate voting is unlawful. They

:07:40. > :07:44.said the Government has six months to come up with changes. This does

:07:44. > :07:47.not mean that all prisoners will be given the vote. The court has said

:07:47. > :07:51.that each state has a wide discretion as to how it regulates

:07:51. > :07:57.the ban. If the Government does not change the law, they could be

:07:57. > :08:00.liable for millions of compensation payments. This paved the way for

:08:00. > :08:05.further constitutional clash between Parliament and the European

:08:05. > :08:09.Court, with MPs arguing that the UK Parliament should be sovereign.

:08:09. > :08:13.Dominic Raab, welcome to the programme. What is your reaction to

:08:13. > :08:18.that ruling being upheld? It is important to put it in some context.

:08:18. > :08:20.In my view, this is an abuse of judicial power. There is no right

:08:20. > :08:25.to prison are voting in the Convention and this is something

:08:25. > :08:29.they have made up along the years. -- prison are voting. It is not the

:08:29. > :08:33.first time we have seen this, with Abu Qatada, and a range of

:08:33. > :08:35.decisions. The coalition is trying its best to negotiate reform with

:08:35. > :08:40.the Strasbourg court, but in the Brighton declaration we have not

:08:40. > :08:43.seen a mandate for that kind of change. What people will be asking

:08:43. > :08:48.is what is the diplomatic safeguard of continuing abuses of this

:08:48. > :08:51.judicial power? I think the answer lies with Parliament. I think

:08:51. > :08:55.Parliament will oppose this measure again. Do you think that should

:08:55. > :08:59.happen? Another vote to demonstrate that MPs feel as strongly as they

:08:59. > :09:02.did when that vote was taken last year? The process for implementing

:09:02. > :09:05.the judgment means that the technical requirement is to

:09:05. > :09:10.introduce a bill. That will happen anyway. Parliament will have to

:09:10. > :09:14.have a say on that bill. Within six months? The introduction has to be

:09:14. > :09:17.within six months. My suggestion would be that there should be a

:09:17. > :09:22.free vote on that and I think we should let Parliament decide. That

:09:22. > :09:25.would allow the Government to go back to Strasbourg. They should say,

:09:25. > :09:28.look, we introduced the bill but our democratically elected

:09:28. > :09:33.representatives said no because this was not envisaged and the

:09:33. > :09:39.public do not support it. What would happen? Would Strasbourg come

:09:39. > :09:43.back and say that you did not vote? With an unmanaging this democracy

:09:43. > :09:47.in that way? I think that is unlikely. I think they have backed

:09:48. > :09:52.themselves into a constitutional corner on this. You don't think

:09:52. > :09:57.that they can impose their will on us? Parliament has been told that

:09:57. > :10:02.if Britain does not comply, then we could be open to compensation cases.

:10:02. > :10:06.First of all, there is no enforceability in UK law of those

:10:06. > :10:11.compensation awards. This is a question of political Jaws, in the

:10:11. > :10:15.same way that we have the political choice to implement it. So David

:10:15. > :10:20.Cameron should put it on this? democracy it is not just a

:10:20. > :10:25.political show where we fudge the difference between the elected and

:10:25. > :10:28.the legislature. Let the elected write the law of the land, which

:10:28. > :10:33.would comply with the judgment and send a clear message to Strasbourg.

:10:33. > :10:37.We need to draw a line in the sand on this. That is the way you

:10:37. > :10:42.interpret it. That is a fact. but the Europeans are seeming to

:10:42. > :10:45.expect changes to be made to that blanket ban. Is there any option

:10:45. > :10:49.that you would support if for instance there was some sort of

:10:49. > :10:54.limit put on prisoners who are convicted for two years, whereby

:10:54. > :10:58.they could have the vote? First of all, there is no blanket ban.

:10:58. > :11:04.Remand prisoners do not forfeit their votes. They view it as a

:11:04. > :11:08.blanket ban. What is the threshold at which a forfeiture should

:11:08. > :11:12.happen? There is no better threshold than a custodial one. The

:11:12. > :11:17.court looks very seriously at the severity of the offence. I can't

:11:17. > :11:21.think of a better one, so the short answer is no. What do so to that

:11:21. > :11:25.scenario that he has set out, that there should be another

:11:25. > :11:29.parliamentary vote? There should be a free vote and if it is voted

:11:29. > :11:38.against yet again, then that is it, we should say fingers up to Europe?

:11:38. > :11:46.There are two separate issues that people can float. -- conflict.

:11:46. > :11:49.Should prisoners have the right to vote and should we refuse the

:11:49. > :11:55.sovereignty of the European Parliament? But do you think the

:11:55. > :11:59.Parliament should push this as far as it can? We have already voted

:11:59. > :12:04.against Europeans imposing their will hear. We want other countries

:12:04. > :12:08.to abide by European Court rulings. We voluntarily are part of that

:12:08. > :12:12.arrangement, that organisation. I think that we are in an invidious

:12:12. > :12:20.position if we choose to take the position of not abiding by those

:12:20. > :12:23.Rawlings ourselves, but it is difficult. -- and those rulings. I

:12:23. > :12:26.have no personal appetite for prisoners to vote at the moment,

:12:26. > :12:30.but the Government might think it is wise to come up with a

:12:30. > :12:34.compromise option along those lines. Do you think the Government should

:12:35. > :12:38.comply? No. I think the court has crossed the line with this one and

:12:38. > :12:48.we should take a stand. It is not acceptable to intrude on domestic

:12:48. > :12:52.policy. I always agree with the anti-European rhetoric, -- I do not

:12:52. > :12:54.always agree. And I do not want this to be seen in that way. I

:12:54. > :12:59.think there is an important issue of principle here and I would not

:12:59. > :13:03.want to play party politics. Together we should send a clear

:13:03. > :13:06.message back to Strasbourg. support the convention. I want us

:13:06. > :13:11.to stay with the convention. But unless we have some democratic so I

:13:11. > :13:16.got on the abuse of judicial power, the voices of those calling on us

:13:17. > :13:21.to withdraw... It is a question of sovereignty. I support the Human

:13:21. > :13:29.Rights Act, and I think it does not help always will the Court to be

:13:29. > :13:32.undermined. It is doing itself no favours with this ruling.

:13:32. > :13:37.Britain is found to be in breach of human rights, surely we have to

:13:37. > :13:43.abide by that ruling. I don't think so. It is the clear will of the

:13:43. > :13:48.British Parliament. There is no fundamental right enshrined in that.

:13:48. > :13:52.The must be a point in which the Strasbourg court is so outside its

:13:52. > :13:55.mandate that there must be a democratic safeguard. It is built

:13:55. > :14:00.into the convention because their rulings are not directly forcible

:14:00. > :14:05.in UK law and we should rely on that. Blanket ban? If the British

:14:05. > :14:10.Parliament voted to say that all prisoners who get more than a six-

:14:11. > :14:14.month sentence will lose the right to vote, and if you get six months,

:14:14. > :14:18.only very few of them will be in prison when there is a general

:14:18. > :14:22.election, we would have complied with the ruling. We will be back

:14:22. > :14:26.within two years with them saying that is not good enough. All right,

:14:26. > :14:29.they have given a very wide discretion. The Italian ruling said

:14:29. > :14:35.that it was fine. With the greatest respect, the Strasbourg court

:14:35. > :14:40.behave like a drunk that cannot walk in a straight line. Look at

:14:40. > :14:46.other judgments. It changes its mind each time, two steps forward

:14:46. > :14:51.and one back. The goalposts keep shifting and this is not going to

:14:51. > :14:58.solve that problem. That is a case for not being part of it altogether.

:14:58. > :15:02.But how do they regulate the ban? Just before they tell us we have to

:15:02. > :15:07.give prisoners the right to vote. Would that not be good enough, six

:15:07. > :15:11.months? Then you comply and only those convicted for short terms are

:15:11. > :15:21.given the vote. That is a potential outcome that is no doubt being

:15:21. > :15:24.

:15:25. > :15:28.You won't tell us if you are going to... It was Lib Dem policy, no?

:15:28. > :15:31.You won't tell fuss you are going to back prisoners' votes. It won't

:15:31. > :15:35.solve the problem. Tphouf sense from Strasbourg that they would

:15:35. > :15:39.stop there. That's the key point. We would end up kicking the can

:15:39. > :15:48.down the road again. Also, can I just name the other countries where

:15:48. > :15:52.prisoners can't vote. Armenia, Bulgaria, Estonia, Slovakia...

:15:52. > :15:58.What's the point there? Are you happy? You lose rights to

:15:58. > :16:01.participate in society. Any non- European examples like America,

:16:01. > :16:06.Australia. What about the Commonwealth? We have just run out

:16:06. > :16:10.of time! I was quite enjoying that. European leaders gather tonight in

:16:10. > :16:13.Brussels for an informal dinner, I am sthaour will be lavish, to

:16:13. > :16:17.discuss thousand promote economic growth across not just the eurozone,

:16:17. > :16:23.but the whole of the European Union. Of course, tonight's soiree will be

:16:23. > :16:29.a far cry from the stringent, dare I say, dour formalities of the G8

:16:29. > :16:32.at Camp David at the weekend. Here they are taking a solemn,

:16:32. > :16:36.formal stroll in the woods in Maryland.

:16:36. > :16:41.Sitting around at Camp David formally sorting out the euro.

:16:41. > :16:45.Obviously, not at all enjoying the fresh air as they buckle down.

:16:46. > :16:49.And formally, sombre, they soberly watched the football. That's David

:16:49. > :16:54.Cameron being told he has won a Daily Politics mug. He was very

:16:54. > :17:00.happy. Then he was told it's a game with a

:17:00. > :17:03.round ball. And he said really, I don't remember that at Eton? Only

:17:03. > :17:06.one can imagine the scenes tonight in Brussels at what's meant to be

:17:06. > :17:10.an informal event. The former ambassador to the US, Christopher

:17:10. > :17:13.Meyer, is here to discuss it. Let me surprise our viewers,

:17:13. > :17:18.nothing will be decided at this dinner tonight. I think nothing

:17:18. > :17:24.will be decided at this dinner tonight. Let's move on! Time for

:17:25. > :17:29.Prime Minister's questions! There is a lesson here, Merkel and hol

:17:29. > :17:32.Londone -- Hollande have been close to each other the last few days, at

:17:32. > :17:35.the summit in Chicago, at the G8, there is a possibility of a dirty

:17:35. > :17:38.deal between them, which they will then announce the surprise of

:17:39. > :17:44.everybody around the table tonight. I think it's unlikely, but it's a

:17:44. > :17:48.possibility. What will the elements of that dirty deal be? Even my

:17:48. > :17:53.cryst alball is getting cloudy, some kind of understanding about

:17:53. > :18:00.what is meant by growth, and by strengthening the firewall between

:18:00. > :18:03.Greece and the rest of the... done, off to the races? I don't

:18:03. > :18:06.think. Even if they have come up with a form of words, if you can't

:18:06. > :18:10.act together at least you can write words together. If they come up

:18:10. > :18:14.with a form of words, it will be full of fudge anyway and we will go

:18:14. > :18:20.on to the next stage of the crisis, which is going to get hotter before

:18:20. > :18:23.June 17th and the Greek elections. They'll have a nice dinner tonight.

:18:23. > :18:28.And they'll say we can't decide anything until the proper summit,

:18:28. > :18:31.which is next month. Another meeting next month. If the number

:18:31. > :18:35.of meetings determine the success, the eurozone would be the most

:18:35. > :18:43.successful economy in the world, wouldn't it? I take your point.

:18:43. > :18:48.There is a bit of an institutional inertia and we are reaching...

:18:48. > :18:54.not commit to anything on the Daily Politics this morning! Have Have hu

:18:54. > :19:02.a little injection! It what happens if you have been in the tpoufs so

:19:02. > :19:08.long -- Foreign Office for so long! There is a fork in the road moment

:19:08. > :19:11.where the country of the eurozone are going to have to decide to get

:19:11. > :19:15.closer together or envisage the breakup and that's a big moment.

:19:15. > :19:21.It's such a big decision that it's being deferred because it's easier

:19:21. > :19:25.to discuss than to resolve it. is right in Labour's view, or even

:19:25. > :19:33.in your personal view of Labour policy, on the issuing of euro

:19:33. > :19:36.bonds which would be bonds, credits, loans issued with the whole of the

:19:36. > :19:45.eurozone on it, rather than just individual countries? That's for

:19:45. > :19:48.them, for the eurozone to decide. I think... This may surprise you, but

:19:48. > :19:54.you have obviously had the same injection. I understand, the clue

:19:55. > :20:01.is in the name eurozone bonds. is right between who? I wanted your

:20:01. > :20:05.view on the matter. We are clearly on the side of growth. We have

:20:05. > :20:10.argued consistently since this began that the Cameron-Osbourne

:20:10. > :20:16.policy - let me answer the question. Clearly has run its course. Is that

:20:16. > :20:18.yes or no? I think they've got to be considered. The danger is at the

:20:19. > :20:23.moment we are having a situation where individual countries are

:20:23. > :20:29.being picked off. The eurobond I think is an idea that needs now to

:20:29. > :20:33.come forward and they can't keep prevaricating. That's what you are

:20:33. > :20:37.doing, you won't tell me if you are for or against them. It's not for

:20:37. > :20:40.me to say to the eurozone whether they should go this way. Clearly

:20:40. > :20:44.they need to take decisive action to get get growth going. Without

:20:44. > :20:49.having a view, let me tell you what is going to happen, is the Germans

:20:49. > :20:54.will say no, because if you neutralise the issuing of credit

:20:54. > :20:58.across the eurozone, into eurozone bonds the price of German bonds

:20:58. > :21:03.would have to rise and they would become liable for the other euro

:21:03. > :21:07.bonds issued by Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland. In a

:21:07. > :21:12.sense, ambassador, it isn't going to happen. It may happen. But I

:21:12. > :21:15.think the pips are going to have to squeak even tighter than they are

:21:15. > :21:19.already. It's unlikely to be tomorrow - tonight t could be

:21:20. > :21:23.tonight, but I very much doubt it. It's only when Athens is in flames

:21:23. > :21:31.that maybe the power of the argument to neutralisation will

:21:31. > :21:35.prevail. What is your view? Into it may --. It may happen the bottom

:21:35. > :21:39.line commit splt to keep the eurozone together and it's hard to

:21:39. > :21:42.see how you can cope it together without the sharing of risk.

:21:42. > :21:46.word from Berlin is if Greece has to go, it has to go. They're bound

:21:46. > :21:51.to say that up to the very last moment when they may change their

:21:51. > :21:55.mind. As I said, it could well be before June 17th. Do you follow

:21:55. > :22:00.German politics? A bit. How much detail are you going to ask me?!

:22:00. > :22:04.are not going to test you. Mrs Merkel has just lost in the biggest

:22:04. > :22:11.region. She faces an election in 2013. No German leader is going to

:22:11. > :22:14.go to the people and say by the way, you are securing Greek, Italian,

:22:14. > :22:21.Spanish debt and by the way, you will be paying more for your own

:22:21. > :22:26.debt. It's an extremely hard sell. It's the consequence of being in a

:22:26. > :22:31.single currency. They've only the small countries with them. They've

:22:31. > :22:35.the Netherlands and some Scandinavian countries. Behind

:22:35. > :22:39.Francois Hollande you have Spain, Italy, really two big kind of camps

:22:39. > :22:42.doving here on the Dishdasha developing on the -- camps

:22:42. > :22:47.developing on the issue. It's become a cheap line in the press

:22:47. > :22:53.that the Germans are isolated. Mrs Merkel isolated for the first time,

:22:53. > :22:57.normally the French and Germans go to these things togts, -- together.

:22:57. > :23:01.How seriously should we take that and can't the Germans be afford to

:23:01. > :23:06.be isolated if they want to be? Well, it is actually it's an

:23:06. > :23:09.historic development, for the first time we see the Germans either

:23:09. > :23:18.completely isolated as they were at the G8, apparently or almost inside

:23:18. > :23:21.the EU EU EU-eurozone. They can afford, if up to the point the

:23:21. > :23:25.argument prevails because the Germans won't do what is necessary

:23:25. > :23:31.the whole ediface will come crashing down. You are right, it's

:23:31. > :23:34.a hard sell in an election year in 2013 but coy see a situation which

:23:34. > :23:40.Merkel could go to those elections and say Germany has achieved it's

:23:40. > :23:45.destiny, we have saved Europe. She could turn the argument. Could I

:23:45. > :23:49.point out that this whole euro crisis started because all these

:23:49. > :23:53.club Med countries were able to borrow unlimited amounts of money

:23:53. > :23:58.at record low interest rates because the bond markets treated

:23:58. > :24:04.all the individual members of the eurozone as if they were equally

:24:04. > :24:10.safe. If you move to euro bonds where they are all guaranteed by

:24:10. > :24:15.the Germans, what will stop them borrowing like mad? I mean, at the

:24:15. > :24:18.moment the issue is... That's what Germans are worried about. When you

:24:18. > :24:24.asked would me sign up and that's the issue, what are conditions

:24:24. > :24:26.attached to public spending and the... The German attachment to

:24:26. > :24:32.keeping this together is a big political factor in Germany, as

:24:32. > :24:35.well. How long before Hollande's honeymoon ends and by autumn he is

:24:35. > :24:42.forced to introduce his own austerity programme? Are you asking

:24:42. > :24:47.me? Yes, I am looking at you! were a French President I wouldn't

:24:47. > :24:50.start down that path. May have said it in the campaign. I may be saying

:24:50. > :24:58.it now but what I actually do will be carefully calibrated because

:24:58. > :25:06.after all he worked for M erbgs itterand. We will have to leave it

:25:06. > :25:10.there. We have obviously solved everything. We know our leaders are

:25:10. > :25:13.a smart lot, after that I am not sure, sartorially, as well as

:25:13. > :25:17.intellectually but I can't help thinking they pushed the boat out

:25:17. > :25:22.at the G8 and we like to reward effort. We have decided to give a

:25:22. > :25:26.Daily Politics mug to the best turned out global leader. Is it our

:25:26. > :25:31.own David Cameron with his chillaxed grey number?

:25:31. > :25:36.Could it be the European Council President, lovingly known as little

:25:37. > :25:46.Herman Van Rompuy on this programme, with his splendid salmon pink V-

:25:47. > :25:49.

:25:49. > :25:53.neck or possibly the Japanese premiere, Yoshihiko Noda, with his

:25:53. > :25:59.man-about-town top? Our mug goes to Herman Van Rompuy. No longer the

:25:59. > :26:05.so-called low grade bank clerk look, take that, Nigel Farage! You don't

:26:05. > :26:11.have to spend time and money on knitwear and treufrps to Camp David

:26:11. > :26:21.-- treufrps to Camp David to win a mug. You can do it right here.

:26:21. > :26:22.

:26:22. > :26:32.Let's see if you can remember when # The time has come to push the

:26:32. > :26:41.

:26:41. > :26:46.I know that standards have slipped over the last few years in

:26:46. > :26:56.Washington, but for a lawyer you are remarkably cavalier with any

:26:56. > :27:28.

:27:28. > :27:32.To be in with a chance of winning that Daily Politics mug you don't

:27:32. > :27:36.have to get a salmon pink sweater, send your answer to our special

:27:36. > :27:43.quiz e-mail address. You can see the full terms and

:27:43. > :27:48.conditions on our website. Right, it's coming up to midday

:27:48. > :27:54.here. Summer has arrived in London. I hope it's where you are, too.

:27:54. > :27:57.Let's look at Big Ben. There is a glorious May Day here, it can only

:27:57. > :28:01.mean one thing, Prime Minister's questions on the way and Nick

:28:01. > :28:05.Robinson is here. The last questions for three weeks. You have

:28:05. > :28:09.been talking about the National Security Council in London, talking

:28:09. > :28:15.about Iran and consequences if it's attacked. I don't know if you saw,

:28:15. > :28:19.but we heard from Jeremy Brown confirming what you are telling me

:28:19. > :28:21.that Lib Dems have been meeting to decide a party line. This is a

:28:21. > :28:24.potential coalition breaker. Remember, of course most people

:28:24. > :28:29.will care much more about other things, the potential loss...

:28:29. > :28:33.it happens. A war in the Middle East, oil that could go up to $200

:28:33. > :28:36.a barrel. It's worth spelling out some of those, because when we talk

:28:36. > :28:39.about this story it would wipe any other story we are talking of,

:28:39. > :28:42.completely out of our memories, frankly, if this were to happen.

:28:42. > :28:46.But, in political terms it's a potential coalition breaker. The

:28:46. > :28:49.Liberal Democrats, we know, opposed the war in Iraq. In large part

:28:49. > :28:54.because they believed it was illegal under international law. If

:28:54. > :29:00.Britain were asked by the Americans and Israelis to play some role,

:29:01. > :29:04.lend a base, use the Royal Navy to police where so much of the oil

:29:04. > :29:08.travels through, give diplomatic support. First question, legal or

:29:08. > :29:11.illegal? Well, it's a question that's being discussed now by

:29:11. > :29:15.Ministers, by Government law officers, in part, because they're

:29:15. > :29:21.trying to prepare the ground for something that may come from

:29:21. > :29:23.outside and could do the coalition irreparable harm. Having tried and

:29:23. > :29:27.failed to get answers to these questions from our guests, I will

:29:27. > :29:35.come to what is obviously a much bigger question, much, much bigger

:29:35. > :29:41.than Iran, and it's this - is Vince Cable a socialist? You weren't

:29:41. > :29:44.expecting that! I don't think he is. He is a social Democrat. Tphefs the

:29:44. > :29:48.party before he joined the Liberal Democrats. Before he was that the

:29:48. > :29:56.Labour Party. He is a socialist? The Labour Party have some

:29:56. > :30:00.socialists in. If he is not a socialist, could you name a problem

:30:00. > :30:04.Vince Cable has ever confronted with which a solution was more

:30:04. > :30:08.Government money or just more Government? I think - I have worked

:30:08. > :30:12.a lot with Vince and think a lot of the media analysis of Vince's

:30:12. > :30:18.thinking is far too simplistic just to say he is left-wing. He is in

:30:18. > :30:22.favour of open markets, free trade, kpre to say to say -- competition.

:30:22. > :30:27.He is an interesting figure in terms of his sort of political and

:30:27. > :30:31.economic views. But they're too simply caricatured as left-wing.

:30:31. > :30:34.What's the buzz? The buzz is that this is about a debate at the heart

:30:35. > :30:37.of the coalition about whether to deregulate. I happen to think

:30:37. > :30:40.that's not true. I don't think there is a central argument between

:30:40. > :30:45.the Chancellor and the Prime Minister and the Business Secretary.

:30:45. > :30:49.I actually think, and perhaps far more revealingly, this is what in

:30:50. > :30:55.military terms you call a blue on blue, parts of the Tory right...

:30:55. > :31:00.This is the Beecroft report, argument around freeing up deraeg

:31:00. > :31:10.lating -- deregulating the labour market, making it easier to hire

:31:10. > :31:11.

:31:11. > :31:20.and fire. A story that has run in The Telegraph. We need to go

:31:20. > :31:24.Thank you, Mr Speaker. I had meetings with ministerial

:31:24. > :31:29.colleagues and others and I will have further such meetings later

:31:29. > :31:34.today. People in Staffordshire recognise that the Government needs

:31:34. > :31:36.to take difficult decisions to deal with the deficit, but does the

:31:36. > :31:45.Prime Minister a shiver about what would have happened if he did not

:31:45. > :31:49.have a credible fiscal package? think it is worth while listening

:31:49. > :31:55.to what the managing director of the IMF said yesterday. She said

:31:55. > :32:01.this. When I think back myself to May, 2010, when the UK deficit was

:32:01. > :32:05.at 11%, and I try to imagine what the situation would be like today

:32:05. > :32:09.if no such fiscal consolidation programme had been decided, I

:32:10. > :32:17.shiver. That is what she said. We should remember who is responsible

:32:17. > :32:22.for leading that situation. Dublin the national debt, a record deficit,

:32:22. > :32:32.a catastrophic inheritance, for which we have not had an apology. -

:32:32. > :32:34.

:32:34. > :32:39.- doubled national debt. Mr Speaker, Mr Speaker, Adrian Beecroft, the

:32:39. > :32:43.Prime Minister's adviser, says the law should be changed to allow

:32:43. > :32:47.employers to fire people at will. The Business Secretary says it is

:32:47. > :32:52.the last thing Government should do. Who does the Prime Minister agree

:32:52. > :32:58.with? We need to make it easier for businesses to grow, for businesses

:32:58. > :33:01.to take people on, for businesses to expand. The Beecroft Report,

:33:01. > :33:05.which I Commission, had a number of excellent ideas that we are taking

:33:05. > :33:09.forward. We are doubling the qualifying period for unfair

:33:09. > :33:16.dismissal. We are accepting businesses with less than 10 people

:33:16. > :33:19.from EU regulations. We are exempt in them from health and safety. We

:33:19. > :33:24.are defaulting on no fault dismissal but only on a micro

:33:24. > :33:29.businesses. It was a good report and it is right that week take for

:33:29. > :33:34.of its best measures. The Prime Minister did not answer the

:33:34. > :33:39.question. -- it is right that we take forward its best measures.

:33:39. > :33:46.Adrian Beecroft made a proposal that employers should fire their

:33:46. > :33:50.employees at will. The people behind him think that the B --

:33:50. > :33:55.Beecroft Report is the bee's knees. The people over there think it is

:33:55. > :33:58.bonkers. The Business Secretary has been going round saying it. We just

:33:58. > :34:04.want to know where the Prime Minister stands and who he agrees

:34:04. > :34:09.with. It is rather sad that he did not listen to my answer. Yes, we

:34:09. > :34:11.have evidence on no fault dismissal for micro businesses. We are not

:34:11. > :34:17.proceeding with it for other businesses and that is the position.

:34:17. > :34:23.I know he worries about being fired at will for being incompetent.

:34:23. > :34:27.wonder how long it took him to think that one up! Mr Speaker, the

:34:27. > :34:32.Prime Minister says that he is consulting on the proposal. This is

:34:32. > :34:36.what the author of the proposal, Adrian Beecroft, said. Some people

:34:36. > :34:43.will be dismissed simply because their employer does not like them.

:34:44. > :34:47.While this is that, I believe it is a price worth paying. -- this is

:34:48. > :34:52.sad. That is what they used to say about unemployment. Is he really

:34:52. > :34:59.telling us that with the record numbers out of work that sacking

:34:59. > :35:02.people for no good reason is a price worth paying? He might

:35:02. > :35:11.welcome that inflation and unemployment is falling and

:35:11. > :35:16.discover -- this Government has cut the deficit by 25%. We are cutting

:35:16. > :35:21.regulation by �3 billion. We are scrapping 1500 regulations. We are

:35:21. > :35:26.looking at introducing fees for employment tribunals. We aren't

:35:26. > :35:31.taking all of these steps, which led to the greatest number of small

:35:31. > :35:34.business start-ups in the country last year. -- we are taking all of

:35:34. > :35:39.these steps. He cannot agree to this because he is in the pocket of

:35:39. > :35:44.the trade unions. In case he is not noticing this, his Business

:35:44. > :35:50.Secretary does not support the proposals. What double-standards.

:35:50. > :35:54.Oh, yes. When it comes to ordinary workers who wants to make it easier

:35:54. > :36:00.for employers to sack them. When it comes to Andy Coulson and the

:36:00. > :36:03.culture secretary, it is all about second chances. Can the Prime

:36:03. > :36:08.Minister tell us what impression he thinks it gives about his

:36:08. > :36:12.Government that the commission's advice from a multi-millionaire who

:36:12. > :36:16.recommends making it easier to sack people on low pay, at the same time

:36:16. > :36:21.as giving people like him tens of thousands of pounds in a

:36:21. > :36:25.millionaire's tax cut? I tell you what we do on this side of the

:36:25. > :36:29.House. We commission a report, except the bit we agree with a

:36:29. > :36:33.project the bits that we do not. What he does is take instructions

:36:33. > :36:37.from his trade union paymasters and he cannot accept any changes. He

:36:37. > :36:40.asks what we are doing for the poorest people in our country. It

:36:41. > :36:45.is this Government taking 2 million people out of income tax and

:36:45. > :36:49.increasing tax credits for the poorest. We have more people in

:36:49. > :36:54.work with 600,000 private sector jobs and we have frozen council tax.

:36:54. > :37:00.His record was completely the opposite. This is not about the

:37:00. > :37:06.trade unions. It is about millions of people... It is about millions

:37:06. > :37:09.of people up and down this country, in fear of their jobs. The only

:37:10. > :37:15.answer this Prime Minister has is to make it easier to sack them.

:37:15. > :37:18.This proposal is a symbol of the Government's failure on growth. We

:37:18. > :37:24.are in a double-dip recession. Unemployment is high, businesses

:37:24. > :37:29.are going bust, bad retail figures today. Doesn't the Prime Minister

:37:30. > :37:33.understand how out of touch he sounds to families when he said

:37:33. > :37:37.last week that things are moving in the right direction? I have to tell

:37:37. > :37:42.him that this is about the trade unions and I will tell you why. He

:37:42. > :37:48.is getting �900,000 from Unite and they are threatening a bus strike

:37:48. > :37:51.in the Olympics. What have we heard from him? Silence. He is getting

:37:51. > :37:55.�400,000 from the GMB union, holding a baggage handlers strike

:37:55. > :38:02.over the Diamond Jubilee union. Absolute silence from him. People

:38:02. > :38:07.need to know that we have two parties on this side of the House

:38:07. > :38:11.acting in their national interest and that side of the House acting

:38:11. > :38:15.in the trade union interest. Let's talk about donations. On March 21st,

:38:15. > :38:19.the Chancellor cut the top rate of income tax and then the money comes

:38:19. > :38:23.flooding in from the Tory millionaire donors. It tells you

:38:23. > :38:26.all you need to know about this Government. They stand up for the

:38:26. > :38:31.wrong people. He may have changed the image of the Tory party but the

:38:31. > :38:38.reality has not changed. Tax cuts for millionaires, making it easier

:38:38. > :38:43.to sack people. The nasty party is back. It is this Government that

:38:43. > :38:46.has cut corporation tax, that set up the enterprise zones, that his

:38:46. > :38:53.reform under planning law, that has boosted the apprenticeships, that

:38:53. > :38:57.has scrapped the jobs tax. That cut taxes for 24 million people. It is

:38:57. > :39:01.only Labour, only Labour, who think the answer is more borrowing, more

:39:01. > :39:10.spending, more debt. Exactly the problems that got us into this mess

:39:10. > :39:19.in the first place. We will have more, but it will be from Mr David

:39:19. > :39:23.Mowat. Thank you, Mr Speaker. In 1993, the IRA bombed Warrington,

:39:23. > :39:27.killing two small boys and injuring 50 others. Last week a memorial

:39:27. > :39:32.plaque with the scrap value of �40 was stolen. The Government has

:39:32. > :39:37.already legislated to prevent the sale of scrap-metal for cash. Would

:39:37. > :39:42.the Prime Minister consider further legislation that the theft of

:39:42. > :39:46.memorials such as this is an aggravating factor? You make an

:39:46. > :39:49.important point. The whole country was shot by the theft of that the

:39:49. > :39:56.moral and everybody remembers the Warrington bombing and the people

:39:56. > :39:59.that died. -- that memorial. We have legislated and we are doing

:39:59. > :40:04.everything we can to sort out the problems of the scrap-metal trade.

:40:04. > :40:12.I will look at the suggestion of an aggravated offence. Any Court is

:40:12. > :40:19.able to hand out the exemplary sentences because the public is

:40:19. > :40:23.appalled by what has happened. There are two ways of measuring

:40:23. > :40:27.youth unemployment. The first definition includes both full and

:40:27. > :40:32.part-time students, which is just over 1 million. The second, the

:40:32. > :40:36.claimant count, stands at 466,000. Youth unemployment is clearly too

:40:36. > :40:41.high on either measure, but I know it rose by 40% under the previous

:40:41. > :40:44.Government. Recently it fell by 17,000 in the last quarter. If you

:40:44. > :40:46.look at the claimant count and include people on out of work

:40:46. > :40:53.schemes, then a number of unemployed young people has fallen

:40:53. > :40:57.since the election. The number of young people unemployed, and

:40:57. > :41:05.employed, and with less opportunities in my constituency

:41:05. > :41:08.greatly increased in the last year. -- under employed. We are setting

:41:08. > :41:12.up attacks forced to deal with this increasing scourge. Will the Prime

:41:12. > :41:16.Minister commit the active participation of every Government

:41:16. > :41:19.department in our task force's work? I will certainly do that

:41:19. > :41:22.because there is vital work to be done to help unemployed young

:41:22. > :41:26.people. What we are finding with all of the schemes that we have,

:41:26. > :41:28.the work programme and the youth contract, that the most useful

:41:28. > :41:33.thing will be the work experience scheme because it gives young

:41:33. > :41:36.people a real leg-up, an experience of the workplace, and removes some

:41:36. > :41:40.of the disadvantages they face against older workers. We are

:41:40. > :41:43.finding that it has a better record than other schemes and I hope that

:41:43. > :41:50.he will be able to pioneer that in his constituency with the help of

:41:50. > :41:55.all the agencies, as he says. my right honourable friend the

:41:55. > :41:58.figures released last week showing that since May, 2010, at the number

:41:58. > :42:05.of people waiting for an operation on the National Health Service has

:42:05. > :42:09.fallen by over 50,000? Does this not demonstrate that our commitment

:42:09. > :42:14.to increasing health funding and our health reforms are beginning to

:42:14. > :42:18.bear fruit? I am grateful to my honourable friend for that question.

:42:18. > :42:22.We did make an important, difficult decision, that while other budgets

:42:22. > :42:26.were being cut, we would protect the NHS budget. That was not

:42:26. > :42:31.supported by the party opposite. The fact is that we now have the

:42:31. > :42:36.best ever performance for patients waiting after 18 weeks. The numbers

:42:36. > :42:39.waiting 26 weeks and 52 weeks have also reached record lows. If we

:42:39. > :42:43.look at average waiting times for in-patient and out-patient, they

:42:43. > :42:47.are lower than they were in 2010. The party opposite asked whether

:42:47. > :42:53.the test should be the number of people waiting over 18 weeks, and

:42:53. > :42:57.if that was the test, we passed with flying colours. Just over a

:42:57. > :43:01.year ago, the Prime Minister launched his flagship export

:43:01. > :43:05.Enterprise's finance guarantee scheme. We now learn that only five

:43:05. > :43:10.companies have benefited from that scheme. Hard-working businesses in

:43:10. > :43:14.Birmingham who would like to participate are quite keen to know

:43:14. > :43:19.who the five lucky companies are and why the scheme has been such a

:43:19. > :43:22.dismal failure? I will certainly right to the honourable lady

:43:22. > :43:27.because the truth is that export scheme has been rolled into the

:43:27. > :43:30.export guarantee scheme more generally, and the amount of export

:43:30. > :43:36.support is massively up on their last election in terms of billions

:43:36. > :43:46.of extra money that is being spent. -- the last election. Exports

:43:46. > :43:46.

:43:46. > :43:52.compared with 20 tent were up 12% last year as well. -- 2010. Will

:43:52. > :43:56.you join me in congratulating the parent partnership conference where

:43:56. > :43:59.27 local authorities were represented? If we are serious

:43:59. > :44:05.about strengthening our society, then providing psychotherapeutic

:44:05. > :44:10.support for families that are struggling to bond with their new

:44:10. > :44:14.babies is absolutely key. Does he agree? I know the right honourable

:44:14. > :44:17.lady speaks with considerable experience, having set up an

:44:17. > :44:21.agreement in Oxfordshire that is having a major impact. All the

:44:21. > :44:24.studies show that real disadvantage for children kicks in right from

:44:24. > :44:29.the moment they are born, if they do not get the love, support and

:44:29. > :44:34.help that they need. That is why the projects that she is talking

:44:34. > :44:38.about and expansion of the Health visitors' scheme, 4200 extra health

:44:38. > :44:42.visitors, can make a real difference. And I also point out of

:44:42. > :44:45.the measures we took last week, to make sure parents get proper

:44:45. > :44:48.contact and information from the midwife before and after the child

:44:48. > :44:53.is born, so we do everything to remove the disadvantage in the

:44:53. > :44:56.early months and years. Will the Prime Minister give an undertaking

:44:56. > :45:02.that he will not succumb to the tick tack from the European Court

:45:02. > :45:05.of Human Rights in relation to prisoners voting? And will he stand

:45:05. > :45:09.up for the resolution that was passed in his House by an

:45:09. > :45:14.overwhelming majority? When you stand up for the sovereignty of his

:45:14. > :45:19.House and the British people? -- will he stand up? The short answer

:45:19. > :45:22.is yes. When you go to prison, you lose certain votes, including the

:45:22. > :45:26.right to vote. Crucially this should be a matter for Parliament

:45:26. > :45:36.to decide and not a foreign court. Parliament has made his decision

:45:36. > :45:37.

:45:37. > :45:40.Today in my constituency a new facility for engineering,

:45:40. > :45:43.manufacturing and export of electronics in which Stafford is a

:45:43. > :45:47.world leader. Following the news of the first trade surplus in motor

:45:47. > :45:51.vehicles for more than 30 years, what measures does my right

:45:51. > :45:56.honourable friend consider to be essential to continue and increase

:45:56. > :46:00.investment in manufacturing? Well, I very much remember visiting

:46:00. > :46:05.there when I contested his constituency, rather unsuccessfully

:46:05. > :46:07.in 1997. What is essential for manufacturing, engineering and

:46:07. > :46:12.technology-based businesses like that is the support that we are

:46:12. > :46:15.giving to apprenticeships where we achieved over 450,000

:46:15. > :46:18.apprenticeship starts last year. Also, the lower rate of corporation

:46:18. > :46:23.tax and the links between our universities and these new centres

:46:23. > :46:29.to make sure technology goes into our businesses and makes them world

:46:29. > :46:35.beating. If you look at our exports, not just overall up 12% last year,

:46:35. > :46:38.tpwou India, China, they're up 20, 30, 40%.

:46:38. > :46:44.Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister pledged to give England's great

:46:44. > :46:48.cities a seat at the heart of Government. Yesterday, Labour took

:46:48. > :46:52.control of Birmingham City Council. The first thing the new council did

:46:52. > :46:58.was to agree to ask the Prime Minister to receive a delegation

:46:58. > :47:01.from the council and Birmingham's MPs on a fair deal for Birmingham.

:47:01. > :47:05.Will the Prime Minister make good his pledge and agree to meet with

:47:05. > :47:08.that delegation? Of course I am happy to meet with

:47:08. > :47:12.leaders of Birmingham City Council as I meet with leaders of councils

:47:12. > :47:16.up and down the country. I think what is important is focusing on

:47:16. > :47:20.what needs to be done in Birmingham to drive economic growth and to

:47:20. > :47:23.make sure that you provide good services, but I very much hope the

:47:23. > :47:33.new council will match the record of the old council in providing

:47:33. > :47:33.

:47:33. > :47:39.value for money. In Blackpool we are awaiting the

:47:39. > :47:43.sentencing of two parents who have pleaded guilty this week to keeping

:47:43. > :47:46.their ten-year-old son in circumstances in a coal bunker. At

:47:46. > :47:55.the same time, the charity Action for Children has highlighted the

:47:55. > :47:58.fact that the law on child neglect dates from 1933. The demands of

:47:58. > :48:02.modern parenting, does the Prime Minister agree it is time to ask

:48:02. > :48:06.the law commission to look at this law once again?

:48:06. > :48:09.He is right to raise this. It was a completely shocking case and for

:48:09. > :48:14.anyone to try and understand how a parent could treat their child in

:48:14. > :48:17.that way, it is just completely unfathomable. I will look at what

:48:17. > :48:20.he says about the law commission and modernising the law. I would

:48:20. > :48:24.make this point, that in terms of dealing with these appalling cases

:48:24. > :48:28.of child neglect and where families have completely broken down, we do

:48:28. > :48:31.have so many agencies currently working on this, including

:48:31. > :48:35.crucially, social workers, and the most important thing is for there

:48:35. > :48:38.to be a real system of passing on information and passing on concerns

:48:38. > :48:42.rapidly and then acting on those concerns, just passing another law

:48:42. > :48:48.won't make up for the common sense and action that we require our

:48:48. > :48:52.agencies to deliver. Can I thank the Prime Minister and

:48:52. > :48:58.the Chancellor for joining with so many of their colleagues yesterday

:48:58. > :49:01.in abstaining in voting against the save Bianca amendment and ask, give

:49:01. > :49:06.than 65% of the public want to see caps on the cost of credit when

:49:06. > :49:10.Ministers will finally give in and do something about ending loan

:49:10. > :49:14.sharking in the UK. We have this new new pow forethe agency which

:49:14. > :49:21.has been established and also the OFT has powers, so it's very

:49:21. > :49:24.important to talk to those agencies and make sure they can act.

:49:24. > :49:27.The local council tax frozen for two years, the lowest inflation

:49:27. > :49:34.rate in three years and biggest monthly fall in local unemployment

:49:34. > :49:38.in five years, is great news for jobseeker's, pensioners and savers.

:49:38. > :49:41.Does my right honourable friend agree that although times are tough

:49:41. > :49:49.and much still needs to be done, this Government and this country

:49:49. > :49:52.are on the right track? Clearly we do face difficult

:49:52. > :49:56.economic times and will go on to talk about the plans required in

:49:56. > :49:59.Europe. What we have to do in this country is rebalance our economy

:49:59. > :50:02.that had become overreliant on the public sector, on financial

:50:02. > :50:06.services, not fairly spread around the country, and we need a growth

:50:06. > :50:09.of the private sector, of manufacturing, technology and need

:50:09. > :50:13.it more fairly spread across the country, including in the area he

:50:13. > :50:17.represents. What you see from the employment figures is yes, a

:50:17. > :50:22.decline in public sector employment which frankly, would be inevitable,

:50:22. > :50:25.whoever was in power, but the 600,000 net new jobs in the private

:50:25. > :50:30.sector shows some firms are expanding and growing and we must

:50:30. > :50:38.be on their side. Unemployment in Hartlepool in the north-east is

:50:38. > :50:41.higher now than in May 20 so. -- 2010. How much of that is gown to

:50:41. > :50:43.his -- down to his Government policy as soon as. The last

:50:43. > :50:47.Government excluded from the unemployment numbers people who

:50:47. > :50:51.were on temporary employment schemes. We included those people,

:50:51. > :50:56.people on the work programme are included in the unemployment

:50:56. > :51:03.numbers. We measure these things accurately and if you compare like-

:51:03. > :51:06.for-like, youth unemployment has fallen since the election.

:51:06. > :51:09.Britain has an excellent track record in scientific research and

:51:09. > :51:13.development, despite historically low levels of funding. For this to

:51:13. > :51:16.continue and to continue to drive so much economic growth, sustained

:51:16. > :51:19.funding is required. Can the Prime Minister assure me that this will

:51:19. > :51:23.be delivered for this parliament and the next comprehensive spending

:51:24. > :51:26.review? Obviously, I can't bind the hands of the next spending review,

:51:26. > :51:30.but we did make an important decision in this comprehensive

:51:30. > :51:33.spending review, which was to protect the science budget T would

:51:33. > :51:35.have been an easy target for reductions and perhaps we could

:51:35. > :51:39.have spent that money on politically more attractive things

:51:39. > :51:43.but we decided to take the long- term view to save the science

:51:43. > :51:47.budget because it's a key part of Britain's future.

:51:47. > :51:51.It was recently announced 800 frontline police officers will be

:51:51. > :51:56.cut in Wales. While the chair of the Welsh Police Federation that's

:51:56. > :52:00.going to be closer to 1600, equivalent of the entire Gwent

:52:00. > :52:05.police force, who is right? truth is whoever was in Government

:52:05. > :52:10.right now would be having to make cuts to police budgets. That's what

:52:10. > :52:14.the Labour - the Labour Party has committed to a cut in the police

:52:14. > :52:17.budget. We have made reductions. The key to having police officers

:52:17. > :52:20.on the street is cut paperwork, reform pensions and deal with pay

:52:21. > :52:29.issues. We have the courage to do that and his party should support

:52:29. > :52:33.it, as well. Last weekend network of Brighton

:52:33. > :52:38.and Hove invited friends around Europe to campaign against what

:52:38. > :52:41.they call weatherley law. Will he condemn the Green Party support for

:52:41. > :52:45.squatters and welcome the criminalisation of squatting?

:52:45. > :52:48.certainly support what he says. I think this law was long overdue. I

:52:48. > :52:51.think it's very important that home owners have proper protection from

:52:51. > :52:55.people effectively stealing their property which is what squatting is.

:52:55. > :53:04.It is a criminal act. It's now a criminal offence.

:53:04. > :53:09.Last week it was revealed that officials at the UKVA received

:53:09. > :53:16.bonuses. Given the queues at airports, 100,000 files have been

:53:16. > :53:21.archived by the UKBA and 185 people have absconded. Can I ask the Prime

:53:21. > :53:26.Minister does he agree in future we should be rewarding success, not

:53:26. > :53:30.failure? I completely agree with the honourable gentleman. There is

:53:30. > :53:33.absolutely no place in the modern civil service for a presumption of

:53:34. > :53:37.good performance. I do believe in actually paying people bonuses if

:53:37. > :53:40.they perform well and meet targets. But if they don't perform well and

:53:40. > :53:43.don't meet targets, they shouldn't get a bonus. In terms of Heathrow

:53:43. > :53:47.and our airports, I think it's vitally important that we continue

:53:47. > :53:51.to make progress. This is an urgent issue for Britain. It's vital for

:53:51. > :53:54.our trade, vital for inward investment that people have a

:53:54. > :53:58.decent experience when they arrive at our airports. We have a new

:53:58. > :54:05.control room opening at Heathrow this month. There's extra 80 staff

:54:05. > :54:08.for peak times at Heathrow. An extra 480 people during the Olympic

:54:08. > :54:14.Olympic period. I am still not satisfied we need to do more more

:54:14. > :54:17.including this week and next week to get on top of this problem.

:54:17. > :54:22.constituency is relieved to learn this Government has already cleared

:54:22. > :54:30.one quarter of the record irresponsible deficit left by the

:54:30. > :54:35.party opposite. They understand that you cannot keep spending what

:54:35. > :54:40.you do not earn. But what they would also like to know is has the

:54:40. > :54:45.Prime Minister received just one quarter of an apology?

:54:45. > :54:49.He makes a good point and I notice that the party opposite didn't

:54:49. > :54:53.really want to go near the International Monetary Fund today,

:54:53. > :54:57.perhaps that's because of something else the director general said

:54:57. > :55:00.yesterday, you have to compare the British deficit situation against

:55:00. > :55:05.other countries which experienced severe deficit numbers, did not

:55:05. > :55:08.take action right away, and are now facing very, very stressful

:55:08. > :55:12.financing terps that is putting their situation in jeopardy. He

:55:12. > :55:19.would have been in jeopardy if we hadn't taken the brave steps we

:55:19. > :55:26.took. Very necessary they were, too. The Electoral Commission figures

:55:26. > :55:30.show the Conservatives got over �500,000 already this year from

:55:30. > :55:38.people attending secret soirees at Downing Street or Chequers. Is the

:55:38. > :55:41.reason the Prime Minister is out of touch and listens to these clicques,

:55:41. > :55:44.rather than decent hard working people like those in Scunthorpe?

:55:44. > :55:48.There is a big difference between the money that the Conservative

:55:48. > :55:53.Party raises from business and individuals and the money Labour

:55:53. > :55:57.get from unions. The money that the Labour Party gets from unions

:55:57. > :56:07.determines your policies, sponsors your members of parliament, and

:56:07. > :56:09.

:56:09. > :56:13.elects your leaders. They own you, lock, stock and block vote.

:56:13. > :56:22.Order! Order. I am quite certain Conservative backbenchers wish to

:56:22. > :56:31.hear Mr Steven Williams. Mr Speaker, the coalition

:56:31. > :56:35.Government has restored order and stability to the public finances.

:56:35. > :56:39.And is therefore won us international confidence, is it not

:56:39. > :56:43.now the right time in order to put renewed effort and vigour into

:56:43. > :56:46.returning growth into the economy by the Government facilitating and

:56:46. > :56:50.guaranteeing investment in housing and infrastructure?

:56:50. > :56:53.I think the honourable gentleman is entirely right and I am sure he

:56:53. > :56:56.welcomes the enterprise zone in Bristol and also the support for

:56:56. > :57:01.the animation and television industries. What we need to do,

:57:01. > :57:04.both in Britain and Europe, is to combine the fiscal deficit

:57:04. > :57:08.reduction which has given us the low interest rates with an active

:57:08. > :57:12.monetary policy, with structural reforms to make us competitive, and

:57:12. > :57:22.with innovative ways of using our hard-won credibility which we

:57:22. > :57:30.

:57:30. > :57:40.wouldn't have if we listened to the muttering idiot sitting opposite me.

:57:40. > :57:49.

:57:49. > :57:53.Order, order. I am very worried about the health

:57:53. > :57:56.of the Health Minister who is so overexcited he might suffer a

:57:57. > :58:03.relapse and I am a compassionate chap. I don't want that to happen.

:58:03. > :58:07.The Prime Minister will please withdraw the word "idiot", it's

:58:07. > :58:11.unparliamentary. A simple withdrawal will suffice. Of course,

:58:11. > :58:21.I will replace it with a man who left us this enormous deficit and

:58:21. > :58:29.

:58:30. > :58:32.financial crisis. Thank you, Mr Speaker. After six

:58:32. > :58:38.months in Government the Prime Minister announced that his

:58:38. > :58:43.Government had created 500,000 private sector jobs. After two

:58:43. > :58:47.years he's now giving us the figure of 600,000 since the election. Why

:58:47. > :58:52.has the rate of growth slowed down so much?

:58:52. > :58:57.Well, there were 100,000 extra people in employment over the last

:58:57. > :58:59.quarter. In the last two months we have seen repeated falls in

:59:00. > :59:05.unemployment and increases in employment. I would have thought

:59:05. > :59:11.the honourable lady would want to welcome that.

:59:11. > :59:16.Mr Speaker, with unemployment down in Lancaster last week, I visited A

:59:17. > :59:22.and G precision engineering, a company of only 40 employees, who

:59:22. > :59:27.supply the hawk jet, high precision work nationally and internationally

:59:27. > :59:29.and told me they turned two work experience places into full-time.

:59:30. > :59:32.Does this show that things are moving in the right direction in

:59:32. > :59:38.Lancashire? I am grateful for what he says. I

:59:38. > :59:41.am sure he will be pleased as well with the order that BAE Systems

:59:41. > :59:47.have for Hawk aircraft today from Saudi Arabia, which is more good

:59:47. > :59:52.news for British jobs and British investment and British Aerospace.

:59:52. > :59:58.Some of our constituents would be hungry today if it was not for the

:59:58. > :00:01.work of Food Bank and similar organisations. If current trends

:00:01. > :00:07.continue, Food Bank reckon by the next election they will be feeding

:00:07. > :00:10.half a million of our constituents. Might I ask the Prime Minister,

:00:10. > :00:15.before he completes his engagements today, he might plan what the

:00:15. > :00:19.Government might do to counterthis terrible trend and and report back

:00:20. > :00:24.to the House? First of all, let me join the right honourable member in

:00:24. > :00:30.welcoming what Food Bank do and the work and I visited one of the sites

:00:30. > :00:33.myself to see what they do. What is absolutely vital in these difficult

:00:33. > :00:36.economic types we do what we can to protect the poorest people in our

:00:36. > :00:40.country and that's why we have we have frozen council tax, increased

:00:40. > :00:44.basic state pension and we uprated benefits in line with inflation

:00:44. > :00:50.which has protected people who need protection the most. Yes, we have

:00:50. > :00:57.had to cut the tax credits from those people on 30, 40, 50,000 but

:00:57. > :01:00.increased tax credits that the poorest people receive.

:01:00. > :01:03.The Prime Minister and I might not agree about everything but we agree

:01:03. > :01:08.with certain things, for example, we both agree I should never be

:01:08. > :01:11.promoted. One thing that we also agree about is that the necessary -

:01:11. > :01:16.need to put public sector pensions on a sustainable and affordable

:01:16. > :01:21.footing. But in that context, judges are being asked to pay 2% of

:01:21. > :01:24.their salary towards their pension, whereas the taxpayer pays 33%.

:01:24. > :01:27.That's neither affordable nor sustainable. Given the increases in

:01:28. > :01:30.pension contributions we are expecting from other lower paid

:01:30. > :01:36.public sector workers, will the Prime Minister make sure we apply

:01:36. > :01:40.the same tests and same requirements on judges, too?

:01:40. > :01:45.Well, my friend makes an important point. I would say is that judicial

:01:45. > :01:49.judicial pensions have always been treated separately because of what

:01:49. > :01:56.judges do for our country. But in terms of public sector pensions

:01:56. > :02:00.more generally, what we have managed to do... Order. A reply to

:02:00. > :02:05.a serious question. Let's hear it with with with a degree of respect

:02:05. > :02:09.and restraint. What we have done with public

:02:09. > :02:13.sector pensions more generally is reduce by half the future cost but

:02:13. > :02:16.while maintaining a public sector pensions system that's more

:02:16. > :02:26.generous than people are able to access in the private sector. As

:02:26. > :02:33.

:02:33. > :02:39.for his earlier remarks, I have plans for the honourable gentleman.

:02:39. > :02:46.Mr Speaker... Order! The House will be relieved to know I don't intend

:02:46. > :02:53.to go into any of that but I want to hear Mr McCann. Mr Speaker,

:02:53. > :02:56.prison officer, abused young men in centre before he was prosecuted and

:02:56. > :02:58.sentenced for some of his crimes. A constituent who was abused by

:02:59. > :03:04.Husband has given me information which suggests that senior figures

:03:04. > :03:07.in the establishment knew what was going on. The CPS refuses to pursue

:03:07. > :03:10.these matters and and indeed the Home Office has sought to issue

:03:11. > :03:13.compensation payments. Mr Speaker, young men were detained by the

:03:13. > :03:16.state and abused by the state. Does the Prime Minister agree that a

:03:16. > :03:19.full inquiry is necessary to ensure that justice is done and a seen to

:03:19. > :03:22.be done? Well, I think the first thing that

:03:22. > :03:27.the honourable gentleman should do and I am sure he already has, is

:03:27. > :03:30.make sure that any evidence he has of abuse or of coverups of abuse or

:03:30. > :03:37.compliance with abuse is given to the Crown Prosecution Service and

:03:37. > :03:39.given to the authorities so it can be properly investigated. The home

:03:40. > :03:43.affairs select committee looked into this issue and and made a

:03:43. > :03:45.number of recommendations, so I will look carefully at what the

:03:45. > :03:54.honourable gentleman said and see if there is more advice I can

:03:54. > :04:00.PMQs comes to an end and you will not see it for three more weeks so

:04:00. > :04:05.I hope you enjoyed it. The front bench was dominated by the Beecroft

:04:05. > :04:12.Report and the labour market. We will come back to that. David

:04:12. > :04:15.Cameron described the Shadow Chancellor as a muttering idiot and

:04:15. > :04:20.he was forced to withdraw it because that is not parliamentary.

:04:20. > :04:24.It was not a fulsome withdrawal, I think. There are questions about

:04:24. > :04:28.how much wine they had had to drink following the story at the weekend

:04:28. > :04:32.about him having four glasses on a Sunday but last time I looked, this

:04:32. > :04:36.was Wednesday. I doubt he has a glass of everything before PMQs,

:04:36. > :04:41.but he will be furious with himself because he allowed Ed Balls to get

:04:41. > :04:47.under his skin it yet again. Interesting that there were no Lib

:04:47. > :04:52.Dems sitting next to David Cameron today. The big story was what the

:04:52. > :04:56.Prime Minister had to say about the European Court ruling that Britain

:04:56. > :05:02.cannot continue with its blanket ban on no votes for prisoners. That

:05:02. > :05:06.it has to come up with some kind of formula, which excludes some but

:05:06. > :05:12.includes others. The Prime Minister said he wanted no truck with what

:05:12. > :05:19.European Court of Human Rights. He wanted no truck with doing that on

:05:19. > :05:22.this very programme, and Andy Burnham agreed with that. Looks

:05:22. > :05:25.like we are heading for a major clash between Westminster and the

:05:25. > :05:29.Strasbourg court. We will talk about that as well because it will

:05:29. > :05:34.be in the news for the rest of the day. What are you thinking? There

:05:34. > :05:38.was a flurry of emails at the end because the muttering idiot, and

:05:38. > :05:42.came towards the end. This is pathetic politics, says Jonathan

:05:42. > :05:46.Paxton of Bedfordshire. PMQs should be about debating policy and

:05:47. > :05:50.finding out what is going on in Parliament. Perhaps he has not been

:05:50. > :05:58.watching recently! Rick Morris and says that David Cameron is losing

:05:58. > :06:02.the plot if he is resorting to language like muttering idiot.

:06:02. > :06:12.Adrian Beecroft attracted most of your comments. His questioning is

:06:12. > :06:12.

:06:12. > :06:18.poor. Beecroft is talking about overall reforms leading to higher

:06:18. > :06:22.levels of employment overall. The tension between the Tory left wing

:06:22. > :06:26.and the Liberal Democrats is rising and David Cameron appears to be the

:06:26. > :06:31.startled rabbit between the headlights. And when his David

:06:31. > :06:40.Cameron going to answer a question? He never gives an answer and always

:06:40. > :06:46.resorts to Sidey Commons and being offensive. And -- snide comments.

:06:46. > :06:56.And this, the media have whipped this up. What we do a thing like

:06:56. > :07:02.that? Never! -- would we? This is something that we have not whipped

:07:02. > :07:06.up. The low surrender vote. We have a situation now where the European

:07:06. > :07:11.Court has said, ruling on an Italian case, that it is not for us

:07:11. > :07:16.to say which prisoners should have the vote and which should not. But

:07:16. > :07:19.a blanket ban on all prisoners is against the European Convention of

:07:19. > :07:23.Human Rights. It is up to the British Government and we have six

:07:23. > :07:28.months to come forward with proposals designating which

:07:28. > :07:31.prisoners should and which should not, if you wish. Both Labour and

:07:32. > :07:36.Conservatives are seen in to say that they are not on. They are

:07:36. > :07:40.declaring war on the Court, and saying it is a foreign court is

:07:40. > :07:43.very provocative. Believers in the European Convention on Human Rights

:07:43. > :07:47.would say that this is not foreign and was created in large part

:07:47. > :07:50.thanks to a British initiative after the war to make sure that

:07:50. > :07:57.human rights were spread in the countries that formally had

:07:57. > :08:01.despotic regimes. That is a provocative thing to say. It might

:08:01. > :08:07.force Nick Clegg as the minister responsible, which she is, or his

:08:07. > :08:11.deputy, conveniently, because Nick Clegg might be rather busy, to

:08:11. > :08:15.explain why he is not sticking with what he sold Parliament a few

:08:15. > :08:19.months ago. The official line from that dispatch box was that this is

:08:19. > :08:23.their legal obligation to give some prisoners a vote, and it is the

:08:23. > :08:27.right thing to do because it stops Britain being sued and prisoners

:08:27. > :08:30.getting compensation, the implication being that those of you

:08:30. > :08:34.that don't like prisoners voting will dislike them being given huge

:08:34. > :08:40.sums of money because they have not got the vote. And the Government

:08:40. > :08:47.has a legal international obligations. The Prime Minister has

:08:47. > :08:54.torn that up and says he does not care and Parliament has made its

:08:54. > :08:58.view clear. This begs questions for the Attorney-General, the top near

:08:58. > :09:04.in the Government. He has always said that it is the law. You might

:09:04. > :09:09.not like it. But we have to go along with them. Further thoughts?

:09:09. > :09:14.We are in unprecedented territory, I think. We have been in the stand-

:09:14. > :09:19.off with the European Court before. I sent my clear feelings out

:09:19. > :09:27.earlier. But having seen that PMQs I clear feeling was that the

:09:27. > :09:32.language was not helpful from David Cameron. -- my feeling. His comment

:09:32. > :09:35.to Ed Balls was not prime- ministerial. This will not help the

:09:35. > :09:40.matter. He is not popular with his own backbenchers at the moment so

:09:40. > :09:49.this could be read need for them. think this is what it was designed

:09:49. > :09:53.to do. -- red meat for them. actually think it puts off people

:09:53. > :09:58.like me that think that this is not unacceptable intrusion into British

:09:58. > :10:02.politics. Your thoughts? A thought the Prime Minister may be

:10:02. > :10:08.Government's position very clear. The only thing I would add to that

:10:08. > :10:10.is that I sometimes think we have a debate in Britain about human

:10:10. > :10:17.rights, as though human-rights were intrinsically a bad thing, a

:10:17. > :10:20.foreign imposition. We should allow ourselves to get into the mindset

:10:20. > :10:24.that we set an international example in terms of human rights

:10:24. > :10:31.law. We should not feel defensive about human rights, as if they are

:10:31. > :10:35.an alien imposition. We have done a documentary for the BBC on this,

:10:35. > :10:41.and Winston Churchill was behind the original convention, a very

:10:41. > :10:46.right-wing Tory Home Secretary was as well. But I don't think they

:10:46. > :10:53.ever envisaged that it would be used to give prisoners votes.

:10:53. > :11:02.incarceration, you surrender rights. You go a cross that line, and you

:11:02. > :11:07.surrender your rights. Non all of Dems agree, but I do agree. In --

:11:07. > :11:12.not all of the Lib Dems agree. We should not sound like we have lost

:11:12. > :11:18.faith in the rights of individuals to have their human rights upheld.

:11:18. > :11:22.Let go back to Adrian Beecroft. I assume Labour's in position is that

:11:22. > :11:26.you are against all of the proposals in the report? They are

:11:26. > :11:30.some things worth considering. I do not have a blanket opposition to

:11:30. > :11:34.everything that this man says, but let's go back to the thing that is

:11:34. > :11:39.causing controversy, unfair dismissal. His proposal to have

:11:39. > :11:43.this ability for companies to fire people but with a small payment,

:11:43. > :11:47.can this be the response to what we have been through? That the most

:11:47. > :11:51.powerful people in society can pull the rug from people at the bottom?

:11:51. > :11:54.If that is where we are going, that is not the country I want to live

:11:54. > :11:59.in. The Government has changed it so that you can basically fire at

:11:59. > :12:03.will for up to two years after hiring somebody. If you do not know

:12:03. > :12:07.after two years if somebody is any good, you should not be an employer.

:12:07. > :12:16.It seems to me that the problem is not supplied, but a lack of demand

:12:16. > :12:19.in the British economy. -- not supply. I want is the protection

:12:19. > :12:23.for people at work but I think flexible labour markets are a big

:12:23. > :12:28.asset. We have one of the most flexible labour markets. We are

:12:28. > :12:34.talking about unemployment. The reason youth unemployment is at 21%,

:12:35. > :12:41.too high, and we want it to be lower, but it is 50% in Spain and

:12:41. > :12:44.Greece, from memory. I think it is important to have employee

:12:44. > :12:48.protection, but we do not want to be in a position in this country

:12:48. > :12:54.when employers are deterred from employing people because they

:12:54. > :12:58.feared that they cannot reorganise their work force. The Labour Party

:12:58. > :13:07.has the right to hire and fire his whole team not based on well, not

:13:07. > :13:10.on any objective criteria. The job creation scheme! On the principle

:13:10. > :13:14.of being inside the tent but not out, and I will not give the exact

:13:14. > :13:20.quote, but he has to hire some people for the Shadow Cabinet.

:13:20. > :13:25.Their more PMQs for three weeks and a big story on the European Court.

:13:25. > :13:33.-- no more PMQs. Yes, I think it will be a big story. We have not

:13:33. > :13:39.talked about the muttering idiot stake when. I -- statement. I don't

:13:39. > :13:45.think people realise that the microphones are very direction will.

:13:45. > :13:52.This is not a technology point. You only here what is switched on and

:13:52. > :13:59.you do not hear the extraordinary amount of noise that there is. What

:13:59. > :14:05.Ed Balls does, it is the equivalent of what they call sledging in

:14:05. > :14:09.cricket. Ed Balls tries to put him off. He finds a new story that is

:14:09. > :14:19.awkward about drinking wine at the weekend and keeps on saying it. And

:14:19. > :14:24.it works. We have to talk more about economic growth. We are

:14:24. > :14:30.sledging ourselves! Thank you, Nick Robinson. Enjoy the Jubilee.

:14:30. > :14:35.can't wait. I will be celebrating in the Republic of the United

:14:35. > :14:40.States. The First Republic! Have you had enough of the recession,

:14:40. > :14:43.the eurozone crisis and this talk of austerity? Would you like to

:14:43. > :14:51.fast forward to a golden era of growth? George Trefgarne thinks

:14:51. > :14:57.that to do so we need to rewind to another era. Here is his soapbox.

:14:57. > :15:01.An implement, dole queues, poverty and misery. -- unemployment. It

:15:02. > :15:07.must be the 1930s. But the view of this decade as a destitute period

:15:07. > :15:10.is a myth. Of course the mood was depressing in 1931, and there were

:15:10. > :15:20.pockets of severe poverty throughout the decade in Britain.

:15:20. > :15:28.

:15:28. > :15:33.But there is also another story to If you were a a Lufhwaffe pilot a

:15:33. > :15:37.huge new building would have Serbed -- serveded as a useful navigation

:15:37. > :15:42.aid. Completed in 1933, just in time for the world's first National

:15:42. > :15:47.Grid to be switched on, bringing electricity to every home in the

:15:47. > :15:50.land, Battersea power station is a classic example of the sort of

:15:50. > :15:54.infrastructure investment and technical innovation which took

:15:54. > :15:59.place at the time. By the middle of the decade, a British boom was

:15:59. > :16:03.under way. Neville Chamberlain was Chancellor.

:16:03. > :16:09.He might be reviled now for his subsequent role in appeasing the

:16:09. > :16:16.Nazis, but he was surprisingly good at running the Treasury. This

:16:16. > :16:20.Budget, which I introduced today, has been made possible by sound

:16:20. > :16:26.finance on the part of the Government and by hard work on the

:16:26. > :16:30.part of the people. About 2.8 million new homes were

:16:30. > :16:35.constructed as suburbs expanded. Car and aircraft production boomed.

:16:35. > :16:40.And firms like Austin and Morris were internationally famous names.

:16:40. > :16:45.Unemployment fell by almost a half between 1932 and 1937.

:16:45. > :16:49.The economic recovery they stphau the 1930s is in sharp contrast to

:16:49. > :16:55.the rather flimsy recovery we have experienced today. So what lessons

:16:55. > :17:02.can we learn? Well, I think there are five steps we need to take to

:17:02. > :17:05.restore the economy to health. Spending cuts work. A 10% cut in

:17:05. > :17:09.unemployment benefit and civil service salaries helped balance the

:17:09. > :17:15.Budget. But this must be offset by an effective cheap money policy

:17:15. > :17:19.based on low interest rates, so the private sector can invest to expand.

:17:19. > :17:26.Confidence in the financial system must be restored and in the 1930s

:17:26. > :17:31.there were several high profile trials as crooks who thrived were

:17:31. > :17:34.brought to book. Tax cuts work. In his Budget of 1934 Neville

:17:34. > :17:38.Chamberlain was able to cut income tax for the low paid and for

:17:38. > :17:43.families. Finally, press on with welfare

:17:43. > :17:47.reform. The 1930s governments didn't do enough for the long-term

:17:48. > :17:51.unemployed. The truth is that all financial crises, even the current

:17:51. > :18:01.one, will come to an end, as long as we are prepared to learn the

:18:01. > :18:05.

:18:05. > :18:08.And George is with us now. You have pointed to some of the upsides as

:18:08. > :18:12.you say by the mid-1930s, some of the investment that you say was

:18:12. > :18:17.going on. But you don't balance that with the economic pain that

:18:17. > :18:21.was obviously suffered at the 1920s, into the 30s, do you accept that,

:18:21. > :18:27.high unemployment, businesses going to the wall? What I tried to do in

:18:27. > :18:29.writing this paper was to - we all have opinions about how to restore

:18:29. > :18:32.economic growth, I thought let's find evidence of what worked in the

:18:32. > :18:37.past and it is true at the beginning of the 1930s there was

:18:37. > :18:41.terrible unemployment. There was effectively a double dip recession

:18:41. > :18:44.first the Wall Street crash then a crisis in Europe and then drastic

:18:44. > :18:48.spending cuts over here. So, there was about three million unemployed,

:18:48. > :18:53.it was about roughly speaking 15 or 20% of the workforce at the

:18:53. > :18:56.beginning of the decade. But I suppose if you look at what other

:18:56. > :18:58.people have said, for instance, the Shadow Chancellor, saying those

:18:58. > :19:03.policies then that were introduced in terms of spending cuts were

:19:03. > :19:09.wrong and that's why those unemployment figures and businesses

:19:09. > :19:13.- were so high? One of the reasons I wrote this is I was struck by how

:19:13. > :19:17.Ed Balls always brings up the 1930s, he is a bad historian. It's simply

:19:18. > :19:21.not true. He has his facts wrong. Which bit wasn't true? He is

:19:21. > :19:24.questioning the policies at the time what were made it so bad, not

:19:24. > :19:27.that the recovery happened. There was a financial crisis, the Wall

:19:27. > :19:31.Street crash and other banking crisis in Europe. Those were the

:19:31. > :19:35.really big contributors to the big unemployment at the beginning of

:19:35. > :19:39.the decade. But then Britain, unlike America, and I think Andrew

:19:39. > :19:42.said this before, people always think of the 1930s and think of

:19:42. > :19:46.America, but in Britain there was a strong economic recovery. Do you

:19:46. > :19:49.think that was as a result of cutting as harshly as they did then,

:19:49. > :19:55.that was the right policy? It was part of the policy but it was

:19:55. > :19:58.offset by some very important softening aspects. One was a

:19:58. > :20:01.restructure of the national debt and the debt conversion, which is

:20:01. > :20:05.one of the biggest events of the time. They had low interest rates.

:20:05. > :20:08.They had a huge house building boom. They had amazing new industries

:20:08. > :20:14.from aircraft, car production, that sort of thing. Do you agree with

:20:14. > :20:19.this report published last week which called the debate on public

:20:19. > :20:23.spending in the UK a phoney austerity, that actually the rate

:20:23. > :20:27.is not fast enough. I do agree with that, but they haven't done enough

:20:27. > :20:30.to try and create growth. I think the Labour Party have said some

:20:30. > :20:33.important things on this. The Government is not focused enough on

:20:33. > :20:37.growth. It's simply focused on deficit reduction. What do you sty

:20:37. > :20:42.that? I don't think it's an either- or with austerity and growth.

:20:42. > :20:47.Everybody wants growth, apart from a few people in the Green Party.

:20:47. > :20:49.Let me talk - we have kept Bank of England base rate at half a percent

:20:50. > :20:54.for I think over three years, the whole time in this Government. We

:20:54. > :20:58.have cut income tax, in fact we have removed about 2 million people

:20:58. > :21:01.from income tax altogether. Allowed them to spend more of their money.

:21:01. > :21:05.The Deputy Prime Minister is interviewed today about

:21:05. > :21:09.infrastructure, spending, we are making improvements in education

:21:09. > :21:14.system. Would you like interest rates to be cut even further?

:21:14. > :21:18.much lower they can they can go from half a percent. We are in - we

:21:18. > :21:23.are spending over �300 million a day of public money, borrowed money,

:21:23. > :21:25.on stimulus for the economy. So there are all kinds - as well as

:21:26. > :21:29.all things we are talking about earlier, which is about making sure

:21:29. > :21:35.that we attract inward investment, increase trade with fast growing

:21:35. > :21:41.mark nets Asia. Tkrbg -- markets in Asia. There's something slightly

:21:41. > :21:47.different I want to ask Andy, about the issue of the trials for those

:21:47. > :21:51.financial people who were blamed for what happened, in part n the

:21:51. > :21:55.1930s, do you think something like that would have helped here? It has

:21:55. > :21:58.been happening to a degree, there's parliamentary inquiries, the media

:21:58. > :22:01.looking at great detail. People have lost honours. Do you think

:22:01. > :22:03.there should have been more of that? The public want to see those

:22:04. > :22:07.responsible held to account, no doubt about that. I agree with some

:22:07. > :22:11.of the things George was saying. The tax cut issue is obviously

:22:11. > :22:16.something we would agree with, we said the VAT increase last January

:22:16. > :22:19.was damaging. I would say that's one of the things that's not helped

:22:19. > :22:23.and tipping us back into recession. You are possibly in danger of

:22:23. > :22:26.rewriting history a bit yourself, in America, they had two new deals

:22:27. > :22:30.and the feeling was they stopped them too early and the States went

:22:30. > :22:39.back to recession at the end of the 30s. I have to say thank you very

:22:39. > :22:48.much. Andrew, what are you doing? Sorry,

:22:48. > :22:54.I was chillaxing there! Very funny, I fell for it.

:22:54. > :22:59.Let's go to Adam. The last few weeks has seen the

:22:59. > :23:02.proliferation of a plethora oria of new words related to the news. This

:23:02. > :23:12.hat is full of them, let's find out if any are catching on with the

:23:12. > :23:16.

:23:16. > :23:19.What did you get? Chillax. Does he seem like a chillaxed person, David

:23:19. > :23:27.Cameron? He does, with his rolled up sleeves, no tie. It represents

:23:28. > :23:32.everything that's wrong with the world. The simple word? Yeah, it's

:23:32. > :23:39.just, you know, it's just not right. Have you heard that word? I have,

:23:39. > :23:44.but I am trying to remember where from. You said you were a viewer of

:23:44. > :23:54.the Daily Politics. I know, I know. It's embarrassing. What does that

:23:54. > :23:55.

:23:55. > :23:58.mean? Twitter for Italian? Remode. What does that mean? I have no idea.

:23:58. > :24:01.It's actually the word the department for transport used for

:24:01. > :24:04.us changing our way we get to work during the Olympics.

:24:04. > :24:12.Oh, yes, it all makes perfect sense now!

:24:12. > :24:20.Also known as walking. Oh, right! Yes, I can see that. Have you heard

:24:20. > :24:24.that word? No. Would you like to guess what it means?

:24:24. > :24:28.Do you know what it means? Greeks exit out of the euro,

:24:28. > :24:34.perhaps? Correct. You are the first person to get it. What do you think

:24:34. > :24:42.of that as a word? I think it's quite cool actually.

:24:42. > :24:46.I think it will become very much a real word in a few days, I think.

:24:46. > :24:50.Geuro. Have you heard of that? That's basically a parallel

:24:50. > :24:59.currency for Greece, because of the economic problems. OK. Do you think

:24:59. > :25:03.it's going to catch on? Not really. What is sweatworking? I am guessing

:25:03. > :25:08.it's working really hard until you break out in sweat. It's instead of

:25:08. > :25:14.a meeting, you go to the gym with your colleague. Fantastic! Do you

:25:14. > :25:24.know what it means? Haven't a clue. You are tkpwog get fired! Oh, no.

:25:24. > :25:25.

:25:25. > :25:29.Producer guidelines? It's The hat is empty, and it urns out a lot of

:25:29. > :25:36.the words we have been using every day the public don't even know what

:25:36. > :25:42.they mean. Oh, dear. Nice hat. Joining us now from

:25:42. > :25:46.Oxford the associate editor of the Oxford English dictionary and in

:25:46. > :25:50.the studio Quentin Letts. Isn't it one of the strengths of the English

:25:50. > :25:54.language that we keep on adding new words to it, that's what keeps it

:25:54. > :25:58.alive? It's what keeps me in work. Here we are monitoring the language

:25:58. > :26:03.and people have been adding words for political reasons, and for

:26:03. > :26:06.other reasons, for centuries. It's a very creative language. But do

:26:06. > :26:10.you think the pace of modern life and developments, are we also

:26:10. > :26:13.seeing the pace of new words on the up, as well? I think two things

:26:13. > :26:19.have changed, more people are speaking English and the world is

:26:19. > :26:23.much more interconnected, so you might have a sort of political wag

:26:23. > :26:27.decides to coin a word in his newspaper column and it goes around

:26:27. > :26:29.the world so everybody can pick up on it. We are more interconnected

:26:29. > :26:34.and more of us speaking English so that's going to make us more

:26:34. > :26:44.productive of new words. So many words we take for granted now, even

:26:44. > :26:48.OK comes from President van Burin. Chattering classes. Dog whistle

:26:48. > :26:53.politics a few years ago. Bromance just two years ago. It no longer

:26:53. > :26:58.seems to be the case. But these things can acquire a political

:26:58. > :27:00.potency and chillax will probably never again be thought of in

:27:00. > :27:05.Britain without people thinking about David Cameron. It takes us

:27:05. > :27:09.right back to the early days of Cameroonism when he launched his

:27:09. > :27:13.leadership bid for the Conservative Party and we all went to a place

:27:13. > :27:18.where there was aromatherapy music playing and I am not sure it's

:27:18. > :27:24.actually that damaging to him because you could argue that Harald

:27:24. > :27:28.Macmillan chillaxed, he happened to read Trollope. David Cameron

:27:28. > :27:35.allegedly plays computer games. Thank goodness we could have Prime

:27:35. > :27:40.Minister who does do that, rather than bungs mobile phones at the top

:27:40. > :27:47.of stumps. What's to happen before the word gets into the dictionary

:27:47. > :27:52.then? Like chillax. It's online. It's an older word than you might

:27:52. > :27:55.think. What about omni-shambles? have been monitoring that, that's

:27:55. > :28:03.rather newer. We have to collect evidence and see that the word has

:28:03. > :28:08.become established in the language. What should get in? I wish tax cuts.

:28:08. > :28:13.We seem to have forgotten that one. Omni-shambles, I am not sure, it's

:28:13. > :28:23.too long and doesn't seem... I like it. The other word used is

:28:23. > :28:30.

:28:30. > :28:34.unrepeatable. That's not going to get into the dictionary. Stitch and

:28:34. > :28:41.Butch, anyone, any idea about that?? All right, it's a gather of

:28:41. > :28:46.people who knit and gossip at the same time. I am right!

:28:46. > :28:51.I am going to get the knitting tomorrow. We are going to give you

:28:51. > :28:57.the answer to question the -- guess the year. The answer was 2005.

:28:57. > :29:04.Press the button now. What's going to happen now? You disappear.

:29:04. > :29:08.is the winner. Mike Dodsworth from Huddersfield, it's your mug. Thank