:00:43. > :00:48.Good afternoon and welcome to Daily Politics. The last one for a couple
:00:48. > :00:52.of weeks as the Commons heads off for, yes, yet another holiday. Fill
:00:52. > :00:55.your boots while you can, because today we are looking at Scotland,
:00:55. > :01:00.where a campaign for yes to independence kicked off this
:01:00. > :01:06.morning. It is promising not just politicians, but celebrities. Yes,
:01:06. > :01:12.celebrities. Who do they think they are, This Week?
:01:12. > :01:15.To Jeremy Hunt's conduct during the BSkyB bid is still under scrutiny.
:01:15. > :01:20.We have the latest from the Leveson Inquiry.
:01:20. > :01:24.Nick Clegg insists that people premiums and only his intervention
:01:24. > :01:28.will revolutionise social mobility in this country. -- early years
:01:28. > :01:33.intervention. Is he right? The Government is thinking again
:01:33. > :01:40.about slapping VAT on static caravans. We think about nothing
:01:40. > :01:45.else. We will bring you news of a quiet revolution in Yorkshire.
:01:46. > :01:50.All that in the next hour. Public service television at its finest.
:01:50. > :01:55.With no supplement on your licence fee! With us for the duration, he
:01:55. > :01:59.is late, probably with a hangover, the founder of the West London Free
:01:59. > :02:05.School, I can see him in the studio, so bring him in, sit him down and
:02:05. > :02:08.sat him about for being so late. Why are you so late? Traffic.
:02:08. > :02:14.Jubilee and Olympic preparations. The should have made allowance for
:02:14. > :02:21.that. Go to the back. The Daily Telegraph's very own Mary Riddell
:02:21. > :02:27.as well, perfectly on time, came by tube. No problem with her. Thank
:02:27. > :02:32.you. Let's start with the Leveson Inquiry into the standards and
:02:32. > :02:35.ethics of Her Majesty's Press. No wonder it is going on for so long!
:02:35. > :02:43.This morning's papers make uncomfortable reading for Jeremy
:02:43. > :02:49.Hunt. He argued that BSkyB should take full -- Rupert Murdoch should
:02:49. > :02:55.take full control of BSkyB. But speaking on ITV, yes, sometimes you
:02:55. > :02:58.get politics on ITV, he continued to be backed by David Cameron.
:02:58. > :03:03.was not what he has said in the past but how he was going to do the
:03:03. > :03:07.job. If we look at how we did the job, he looked for independent
:03:07. > :03:14.advice, he took it and did it in a thoroughly proper way. This is like
:03:14. > :03:18.a love letter coming to you from Jeremy Hunt about the Murdochs. The
:03:18. > :03:22.point is that he was getting his quasi-judicial role. He was going
:03:22. > :03:27.to decide. How could he be impartial when you knew that he was
:03:27. > :03:31.such a fan? He did act impartially because he took independent advice
:03:31. > :03:38.at every stage and he acted impartially. I had not wanted to
:03:38. > :03:42.give anybody the job. I had wanted the existing Business Secretary,
:03:42. > :03:48.Vince Cable, to do the job. That was the Prime Minister on ITV
:03:48. > :03:54.earlier this morning. How does it work out that you fire Vince Cable
:03:54. > :04:01.from this process because he is biased against Rupert Murdoch, and
:04:01. > :04:04.you hired Mr Hunt, biased in favour of Rupert Murdoch? Well, that is
:04:04. > :04:09.the million dollar question, isn't it? That is what the Prime Minister
:04:09. > :04:13.has to answer. I think already the focus has moved slightly away from
:04:13. > :04:18.Jeremy Hunt. It is fascinating, this email traffic, and the fact
:04:18. > :04:24.that they were texting each other dozens of times a day. Not Jeremy
:04:24. > :04:28.Hunt personally second but his special adviser and Fred Michel,
:04:28. > :04:33.Murdoch's man. The real question for Cameron is how can you possibly
:04:33. > :04:37.appoint somebody when it is absolutely clear from the memo that
:04:38. > :04:41.was revealed yesterday, that he was not only supportive of Rupert
:04:41. > :04:49.Murdoch and his bid, but absolutely Maasai and making his support.
:04:49. > :04:54.There was no doubt whatsoever. Having fired Vince Cable for being
:04:54. > :04:58.somewhat opinionated in the opposite direction, also, as far as
:04:58. > :05:07.I understand it, Gus O'Donnell, who cleared Jeremy Hunt to take
:05:07. > :05:12.charge... The Cabinet Secretary? Indeed. He has no knowledge of this
:05:12. > :05:16.emerge. There are real questions of justice there. In the Prime
:05:16. > :05:21.Minister's defence, who was he going to take the decision to? It
:05:21. > :05:26.was the offers that Jeremy Hunt held which made in the appropriate
:05:26. > :05:30.figure. Who else could it have been? Ken Clarke? It is not the
:05:30. > :05:39.Pope, it is not the Queen. It is not the majesty of the offers that
:05:39. > :05:44.is important. Why not the Pope? at the office. It is the individual
:05:44. > :05:48.holding the post that has to decide. It is clear that he was not
:05:48. > :05:52.impartial in this quasar judicial role. I agree that it was a problem
:05:52. > :05:58.for Cameron because he had to give the job to somebody. But to go
:05:58. > :06:03.right ahead with Jeremy Hunt, I think, well, as it is turning out...
:06:03. > :06:07.I don't think Jeremy Hunt has necessarily acted in appropriately.
:06:07. > :06:12.He was within his rights to express an opinion when it was not his task
:06:12. > :06:17.to make a decision. He had been advised by officials not to. So he
:06:17. > :06:22.was sailing close to the wind. kind of knew what Vince Cable
:06:22. > :06:26.thought beforehand. And Jeremy Hunt. And most people have an opinion on
:06:26. > :06:28.that. The difficulty that the Government faced was that they have
:06:28. > :06:34.to task a senior politician with making this decision. They could
:06:34. > :06:37.not give it to an official. So who do you task with it? The obvious
:06:37. > :06:40.person is the Secretary of State for business, and if he rules
:06:40. > :06:44.himself out by saying something stupid to a journalist, the most
:06:44. > :06:53.obvious person is the Secretary of State for the Department for Media
:06:53. > :07:01.and Sport. In 2003, a lot of things that Rupert Murdoch feared it did
:07:01. > :07:06.not appear in that Act. And now the same thing is happening. They would
:07:06. > :07:10.have got their way on BSkyB if the Milly Dowler story had not come out
:07:10. > :07:15.at the last minute. I suspect that governments will be supping with a
:07:15. > :07:18.long spoon when it comes to Murdoch land. I would have thought so. I
:07:18. > :07:22.completely agree with you. Everybody got too close, well, most
:07:23. > :07:27.people got too close to Murdoch. This was the atomic bomb of media
:07:27. > :07:31.ownership as far as the take-over was concerned. It was the biggest
:07:31. > :07:35.in British history. The entire media industry was very worried
:07:35. > :07:40.about it, simply because it appeared to ride roughshod. We need
:07:40. > :07:47.to move on, but young Adam Smith. Not the Economist from Scotland,
:07:47. > :07:51.because he died a while ago. This young chap, he resigned. When you
:07:51. > :07:54.listen to his testimony, yesterday afternoon and this morning to
:07:54. > :08:01.lovers and, he is playing it so straight. It begs the question why
:08:01. > :08:04.he resigned if everything he said is true. -- this morning to the
:08:04. > :08:11.Leveson Inquiry. You get the impression that he was forced to
:08:11. > :08:18.fall on his sword and savers of's political career. -- saved his
:08:18. > :08:25.boss's political career. Now it is time for the daily quiz and I know
:08:25. > :08:28.you love it. Our question is this. Toby Young, the late Toby Young,
:08:28. > :08:34.recently challenged a leading politician to a drinking contest,
:08:34. > :08:40.because he has got nothing else to do. And he lost! The journalist
:08:40. > :08:47.losing to a politician! He was the politician? William Hague, John
:08:47. > :08:51.Prescott, Nigel Farage, or toughest of the lot, Louise Mensch. My money
:08:51. > :08:56.is on her! At the end of the show, he will fess up and tell us what a
:08:56. > :08:59.big girl's blouse he really was. Earlier in the week, the Government
:08:59. > :09:02.was forced to publish the Beecroft Report, which proposed
:09:02. > :09:07.controversial changes to our employment laws, including allowing
:09:07. > :09:13.what is called no fault dismissal as for underperforming workers.
:09:13. > :09:16.Basically, if you don't like them, you can get rid of them. A group of
:09:16. > :09:20.MPs called the Free Enterprise Group, the clue is in the name, are
:09:20. > :09:25.publishing their own plan to reform Britain's labour markets. They see
:09:25. > :09:31.this as essential to withstand the economic shock that Greece crashing
:09:31. > :09:40.out of the euro will inevitably cause. They are calling it Plan E
:09:40. > :09:46.for Euro-X it. Probably Plan E for emergency would make more sense. --
:09:46. > :09:50.the euro exit. The plan is for people earning under �10,000 a year
:09:50. > :09:54.would be tax-exempt. They think the minimum wage should be frozen for
:09:54. > :09:59.three years. But they say that workers would receive a rise in
:09:59. > :10:04.real incomes because they would not have to pay it national insurance.
:10:04. > :10:10.Business would be encouraged to take on workers, and they would
:10:10. > :10:14.like to see the fear factor removed from hiring people. Not the fear
:10:14. > :10:18.factor from getting fired! And most controversially, companies with
:10:18. > :10:22.fewer than 10 workers would be exempt from unfair dismissal laws.
:10:22. > :10:29.At least for new employees. And they want to pat the kind of
:10:29. > :10:37.payouts that you can get for unfair dismissal or discrimination at work
:10:37. > :10:39.at around �50,000. -- cap the payouts. You get around �50,000 at
:10:40. > :10:43.the moment, but if it is discrimination for race and gender
:10:43. > :10:49.and things like that it can be much more, but that is unusual. They
:10:49. > :10:54.discuss this with MP George Eustice, one of the co-authors of the report.
:10:54. > :10:58.And from the TUC, head of a quality and Employment Rights, Sarah Veale.
:10:58. > :11:02.Lay out your stall. Why do you think this needs to be done?
:11:02. > :11:06.reality is, if you look at the eurozone at the moment, countries
:11:06. > :11:10.in the eurozone so that they want to stay in the eurozone, but they
:11:10. > :11:14.are not prepared to do what is required. Germany do not want to
:11:14. > :11:19.write the big cheques that are required. Let's not go through the
:11:20. > :11:24.eurozone. Let us seen Greece comes out. Why would this make a
:11:24. > :11:29.difference to our ability to survive it? -- let's assume that
:11:29. > :11:33.Greece come out. It will have an impact on our exports and on the
:11:33. > :11:37.Government's strategy. You have to redouble your efforts to get growth
:11:37. > :11:41.going in our economy. The real reason this economy is not growing,
:11:41. > :11:45.I suggest, is not the lack of flexibility in the labour markets.
:11:45. > :11:48.There may or may not be. But by international standards we are
:11:49. > :11:55.pretty flexible. The reality is that there is no demand in the
:11:55. > :12:00.economy and this would not create demand. Let him answer. If you look
:12:00. > :12:05.at the last decade, it Government spending has gone up from 40% to
:12:05. > :12:09.50% of GDP. The economic freedom indexes that are done
:12:09. > :12:13.internationally, we have slipped down to 81, so a huge amount could
:12:13. > :12:17.be done here. You cannot just borrow money to stimulate growth,
:12:17. > :12:20.have to create the conditions for growth to happen. I think we should
:12:20. > :12:25.purge these fair weather policies that have grown up over the last 10
:12:25. > :12:29.years. There is a problem with the European labour market, including
:12:29. > :12:33.Britain, and it is a long-term one and we have seen it over 30 years.
:12:33. > :12:36.The more it has been regulated with rights and controls and so on, and
:12:36. > :12:39.the more taxes that have been levied on it to pay for social
:12:39. > :12:43.charges and the rest, the more long-term unemployment we have
:12:43. > :12:48.created and the more youth unemployment. I don't think there
:12:48. > :12:52.is any evidence that there is a causal link between regulation and
:12:52. > :12:57.the success or otherwise of an economy. So why does the eurozone
:12:57. > :13:00.have permanently high unemployment? All sorts of reasons that are not
:13:00. > :13:05.related to the Beecroft Report. That is about protection for
:13:05. > :13:08.employees. I am not talking about that. I am talking about over 30
:13:08. > :13:13.years the European governments increasingly regulating the labour
:13:13. > :13:17.markets and taxing it, and social charges in France are sometimes 60
:13:17. > :13:22.or 70% of wages. You should not be surprised if people do not want to
:13:22. > :13:25.Emperor people. In France or in the UK? There is not a particular
:13:25. > :13:29.problem in France that does not occur in other countries. Each
:13:29. > :13:33.country has separate labour laws, which impinge on employment rates
:13:33. > :13:36.or not. In the UK there has been extraordinary yo-yo ring in terms
:13:36. > :13:41.of up from the floor between governments of different political
:13:41. > :13:45.persuasions. But there is no evidence to suggest a causal link
:13:45. > :13:53.between employment regulation and demand of unemployment. There is
:13:53. > :14:00.just their evidence. -- and the amount of unemployment. In Germany,
:14:00. > :14:03.the consequence was that unemployment overall came down. In
:14:03. > :14:07.particular, they are the only European country with no youth
:14:07. > :14:11.unemployment problem. They have a very different economy. The thing I
:14:11. > :14:17.would say about the labour relations in Germany, they have
:14:17. > :14:23.something called co-determination. Employers determine working
:14:23. > :14:29.conditions, broadly. Whatever they do on dismissal law is small. The
:14:29. > :14:38.Beecroft Report proposal to do miss people at whim, -- to dismiss
:14:38. > :14:40.people and when, is appalling. you in favour of that? I am in
:14:41. > :14:44.favour of rules against discrimination but the concept of
:14:44. > :14:48.unfair dismissal is unique to Britain. It is a problem and
:14:48. > :14:52.employers do raise this as an issue if you talk to them. They have to
:14:52. > :14:57.go to tribunals. What you really need is a grown-up conversation. If
:14:57. > :15:02.a member of staff is falling behind... Are but it could be an
:15:02. > :15:05.unequal conversation between the boss and the worker. There are sham
:15:05. > :15:10.consultations for redundancy at the moment. They are not sham. They are
:15:10. > :15:14.not. They are quite often sham. They encourage the conversations
:15:14. > :15:18.that you are advocating. I don't agree. If you talk to employers,
:15:18. > :15:22.they always cite this as an obstacle. Lots of them did,
:15:23. > :15:26.actually. Lots of employers are perfectly happy with the employment
:15:26. > :15:36.relations system. There are some highly successful employers in the
:15:36. > :15:40.
:15:40. > :15:49.UK perfectly happy with a lightly You are claiming that this
:15:49. > :15:56.regulation costs 100 billion a year. You made that up? I can't remember
:15:56. > :16:01.where that figure came from. It is a big figure. It is a big figure,
:16:01. > :16:07.but the burden of regulation is a huge problem. You can't borrow your
:16:07. > :16:11.way out of beds. A business department did a survey of
:16:11. > :16:17.businesses, and employment regulation came number six, below a
:16:17. > :16:25.range of other issues. The working time directive alone cost us 3
:16:25. > :16:29.billion a year. Only 97 billion to go! There are a lot more than 97
:16:29. > :16:32.regulations. Commonsense dictates that if you remove some of the
:16:33. > :16:36.obstacles that face employers, they are more likely to take on new
:16:36. > :16:40.employees. That addresses your point about how to create demand in
:16:40. > :16:44.the economy. It reduces the welfare bill and increases the amount of
:16:44. > :16:51.people able to spend money. would not take people on if there
:16:51. > :16:55.was not demand in the first place. If demand is not increasing, which
:16:55. > :16:59.isn't, why hire anybody other than as a replacement? Plenty of
:16:59. > :17:02.employers say they would be willing to take people on if there was less
:17:02. > :17:10.regulation of the labour market. Unemployment is falling in America
:17:10. > :17:15.because their labour market is much less regulated. In George's report,
:17:15. > :17:19.in one respect, I agree with him. If Greece does leave the euro, and
:17:19. > :17:25.it is still an if, the effects on Britain will be much more severe
:17:25. > :17:29.than anyone has realised. But as to what you do to make this country's
:17:29. > :17:36.economy stronger, it comes back to what Andrew was talking about,
:17:36. > :17:41.which was demand and supply. There is little evidence that by getting
:17:41. > :17:46.tougher on workers and cutting red tape, it will make much difference.
:17:46. > :17:50.We have two models. One is some of the things you are talking about,
:17:50. > :17:55.George, and the Beecroft report. The other report this week from the
:17:56. > :18:04.IMF, which goes much more towards demand, would recommend more
:18:04. > :18:09.quantitative easing and some tax cuts, but boosting demand at. It is
:18:09. > :18:13.not that the whole of the Beecroft report is disreputable. I agree
:18:13. > :18:16.that industrial tribunals need looking at. But the line that Sarah
:18:16. > :18:20.talked about, which was redacted from the final version, the idea
:18:20. > :18:25.that a few people will lose their jobs because their employers don't
:18:25. > :18:28.like them, but that is a price worth paying, er that speaks of a
:18:29. > :18:32.callousness that goes beyond economics.
:18:33. > :18:41.The report also talks about setting up infrastructure laws. There is
:18:41. > :18:46.evidence that if you invest... one has any idea what
:18:46. > :18:49.infrastructure bombs means. If the euro does break up, you will have a
:18:49. > :18:55.flight of the capital from the Eurozone to the UK. If you could
:18:55. > :19:00.capture that in a special -- sensible way, you could put it into
:19:00. > :19:07.infrastructure. * An back from the substance and tummy as and analyst,
:19:07. > :19:14.is any of this going to happen? are making a clear argument that it
:19:14. > :19:17.should. But how will it happen? Government has changed the
:19:17. > :19:22.timescale through which people can take something to an industrial
:19:22. > :19:25.tribunal. But if you are an employer and you can't make up your
:19:25. > :19:31.mind after two years whether something is any good -- whether a
:19:31. > :19:35.person is any good, maybe you shouldn't be an employer. But what
:19:35. > :19:39.if somebody does well in one job but that is no -- Ben is moved to
:19:39. > :19:46.another job, and they fail in that job? There are systems to deal with
:19:46. > :19:50.that. One of the most compelling arguments For sacking people on
:19:50. > :19:53.site is that if the Lib Dems throw any more spanners in the works when
:19:53. > :20:03.it comes to these good measures, Cameron could say OK, Vince Cable,
:20:03. > :20:08.on your bike. And it is really going to happen(!). Some report in
:20:08. > :20:11.the Times today that if Greece does exit the euro, a lot of Tory
:20:11. > :20:18.backbenchers will want and in or out referendum. Is that true?
:20:18. > :20:23.Greece comes out of the euro, you will probably need a new treaty.
:20:23. > :20:26.And would that trigger a referendum in the UK? My view is that we
:20:26. > :20:30.should use our time in government to negotiate a new deal with the
:20:30. > :20:34.European Union. Things are in such a state of flux that there might be
:20:34. > :20:38.appetite for a sensible discussion about what the EU should look like,
:20:38. > :20:43.and then you renegotiate and put that to the British people. Good
:20:43. > :20:47.luck getting that past Nick Clegg. What do you make of Nigel Farage's
:20:47. > :20:51.offer that when you have got a strong Euro-sceptic and a UKIP
:20:51. > :20:56.candidate, he should run as a single candidate? They always had
:20:56. > :21:00.this sort of talk when elections come. I was a UKIP candidate, and I
:21:00. > :21:08.left because I want to get away from that. That is not what I
:21:08. > :21:12.believe we should be doing. People are saying UKIP are strong. That is
:21:12. > :21:16.why the Conservative Party has to articulate a clear vision about the
:21:16. > :21:22.future of the European Union. it is not doing that? It is
:21:22. > :21:25.starting to do that. Where is the evidence? The EU bill. We now have
:21:25. > :21:30.a bill in the UK which would require a referendum if anything
:21:30. > :21:36.changed. That is process, not substance. The David Cameron vetoed
:21:36. > :21:41.the EU treaty. We are never sure that he did. He vetoed that treaty.
:21:42. > :21:46.The treaty went ahead. As an inter- governmental treaty between those
:21:46. > :21:49.in the Eurozone. David Cameron is between a rock and a hard place. He
:21:49. > :21:54.is told he is lecturing when he tells them what they need to do,
:21:54. > :21:57.and when he does not tell them, he is told he is aloof. We have to
:21:57. > :22:01.move on. Now, a week from now the country
:22:01. > :22:06.will be gearing up for a weekend of celebrations to mark the Queen's
:22:06. > :22:10.Diamond Jubilee. Sadly, the powers that be reckon you would rather
:22:10. > :22:13.watch that than another episode of the Daily Politics, so we will not
:22:13. > :22:19.be on. No tears. But never one to miss a bandwagon, Adam has been
:22:19. > :22:22.holding his own street party seven days early.
:22:22. > :22:26.Welcome to a bargain-basement Daily Politics Jubilee street party. If
:22:26. > :22:29.we were having one, this would be a good spot, because on the Sunday of
:22:29. > :22:34.the Jubilee weekend, there will be a massive flotilla on the river and
:22:34. > :22:37.then her Majesty will come for lunch in Westminster on Tuesday. We
:22:37. > :22:42.have our guess from the all-party parliamentary group on the Jubilee,
:22:42. > :22:47.and Adrian Evans, the pageant master for the Jubilee pageant.
:22:47. > :22:53.Adrian, will be pageant be as good as this? Who have fully a bit
:22:53. > :22:56.better and louder. It should be amazing. It should be one of those
:22:56. > :23:03.events we will look back on in history and think it was an
:23:03. > :23:13.extraordinary thing to have achieved. How big is this flotilla
:23:13. > :23:16.going to be? There will be 1000 boats. They will pass from Putney
:23:17. > :23:21.all the way through to the Thames barrier in the east. Give us an
:23:21. > :23:24.idea of how big a logistical challenge it is? It has been
:23:24. > :23:29.extraordinary. I have worked on this for two and a half years.
:23:29. > :23:33.Early on, I discovered that the river goes up and down by seven
:23:33. > :23:37.metres twice a day. It shifts backwards and forwards at a rapid
:23:37. > :23:41.rate. The bridges are a different shape from one to another. Getting
:23:41. > :23:45.all those boats to do what they are supposed to do has been a
:23:45. > :23:49.logistical nightmare. We have not done something like that for a
:23:49. > :23:53.while, but it has been a regular feature throughout history.
:23:53. > :23:57.have to look back 150 years ago for the lord mayor's show, which was
:23:57. > :24:01.played out on the Thames every year in November. But the great royal
:24:01. > :24:06.pageants go back a few hundred years. That was when the Thames
:24:06. > :24:12.itself was the grand boulevard, the place that if you want to make a
:24:13. > :24:18.great impression, that was the place to do it. What is the All
:24:18. > :24:21.Party Parliamentary Group doing? The exciting thing we did was, we
:24:21. > :24:26.built a stained-glass window which will go up in Westminster Hall
:24:26. > :24:30.opposite her Majesty's father's stained glass window, which has her
:24:30. > :24:35.coat-of-arms and commemorates the Diamond Jubilee. I am excited to be
:24:35. > :24:41.here and shake the hand of the man in charge of this pageant. It will
:24:41. > :24:45.be wonderful, because we do these things better than any country.
:24:45. > :24:53.Around the world, countries pay billions to create that sort of
:24:53. > :24:59.iconic moment. We do it in an understated and elegant way. On the
:24:59. > :25:05.third assumed -- 3rd June, we will deliver that. Will there be Jubilee
:25:05. > :25:13.fever then, because the MPs will be on holiday? They will be in recess.
:25:13. > :25:18.They are working hard. Of course! will be here. Others like my
:25:18. > :25:26.children, who could not get tickets, will be somewhere along the river,
:25:26. > :25:31.watching this fantastic pageant, with the royal family on the boats
:25:31. > :25:36.themselves. There will be street parties all over every town and
:25:36. > :25:40.village. It will be a wonderful celebration. The terrace over there
:25:40. > :25:45.must be a good spot to watch it from. In it will be an
:25:45. > :25:53.extraordinary place to see it. The boats are coming from all over the
:25:53. > :25:57.UK. It really is a People's pageant. It is an accumulation of enthusiasm,
:25:58. > :26:01.passion and interest on the water. I should say some campaigners
:26:01. > :26:07.against the monarchy will be holding some protests during the
:26:07. > :26:12.weekend, but I don't think their sandwiches will be as good.
:26:12. > :26:15.What will you be doing for the Jubilee? I think I will have a hard
:26:15. > :26:19.job persuading my children to turn out for the Diamond Jubilee,
:26:19. > :26:24.because we had a bad experience in Dartmouth on Sunday at the Olympic
:26:24. > :26:29.torch relay. My seven-year-old son was really excited about it. It was
:26:29. > :26:34.just a parade of sponsors. There was one bus after another with
:26:34. > :26:38.Samsung, Lloyds TSB. They tried to get the crowd to chant Coca-Cola.
:26:38. > :26:44.The torch relay itself was an elderly blind Frenchman with two
:26:44. > :26:48.human crutches, crawling along at a snail's pace, almost an aftermath -
:26:48. > :26:54.- an afterthought to the main event, which was these buses throwing out
:26:54. > :26:58.plastic tat. Chariots of fire, it wasn't. But her Majesty will not be
:26:58. > :27:02.chanting Coca-Cola. She will go down the Thames on a barge. And I
:27:02. > :27:08.am sure it will be more impressive. By the time they get around to the
:27:08. > :27:12.proper ceremonial, whatever you think, the British do do that sort
:27:12. > :27:17.of thing fantastically well. This whole idea of monarchy and how
:27:17. > :27:24.people are going to celebrate it is interesting. I will not be out with
:27:24. > :27:28.the bunting, but if you think that in 1946, George VI, the Queen's
:27:28. > :27:34.father, apparently 3% thought he was doing a good job, the same as
:27:34. > :27:40.Joseph Stalin in 1946. Whereas now, the monarchy was popular in the
:27:40. > :27:47.'80s, but if you look at the Queen's approval rating, it is plus
:27:47. > :27:50.78, as opposed to David Cameron's at -12 and Ed Miliband on minus 11
:27:50. > :27:56.and Nick Clegg on minus 27, so she must be doing something right. It
:27:56. > :28:01.is not a good time to be a Republican. It is not. I am not a
:28:01. > :28:05.republican, I am a staunch monarchist, and I am sure the West
:28:05. > :28:08.London Free School will be doing a lot to celebrate.
:28:08. > :28:13.The Government is promising a decision later this summer whether
:28:13. > :28:18.it will go ahead and impose VAT on static caravans. George Osborne
:28:18. > :28:22.announced the measure in the Budget, but it has caused a near revolt in
:28:22. > :28:27.Yorkshire where, not all people know this, almost all Britain's
:28:27. > :28:35.static caravans are made. I knew it, because Alan Johnson told me. He is
:28:35. > :28:39.an MP from there. The timing of the government's VAT
:28:39. > :28:43.announcement could not have been worse for the owners of this
:28:44. > :28:48.leisure park in east Yorkshire. After weathering floods in a
:28:48. > :28:54.recession, they had just invested �5 million in new facilities,
:28:54. > :29:01.including an indoor pool, spa, Jim and golf simulator. But then came
:29:01. > :29:07.the news that all new holiday homes sold here will be hit by an average
:29:07. > :29:13.of �6,000 in VAT costs. Somebody from London goes out and buys a
:29:13. > :29:20.second home. They pay 1% stamp duty. Yet we are asking the hard-working
:29:20. > :29:27.couples to now find 20% extra for a holiday home. 30,000 now becomes
:29:27. > :29:31.36,000. We can't afford to absorb the VAT, so it has to go somewhere.
:29:31. > :29:35.The National Caravan Council estimates that the decision to add
:29:36. > :29:41.20% VAT on to the cost of static caravans will lead to more than
:29:41. > :29:47.4000 job losses at holiday parks across the country. More than 1400
:29:47. > :29:57.in manufacturing and 1500 at suppliers, adding up to more than
:29:57. > :29:57.
:29:57. > :30:01.manufacturing workers in Beverly fear for their future. The company
:30:01. > :30:06.has ridden out the recession well, and for the Government to levy a
:30:06. > :30:09.20% increase on VAT, it is mind- blowing. The government are doing a
:30:09. > :30:14.campaign on the TV at the moment for people to holiday in Britain,
:30:14. > :30:19.so they should back the caravan industry. We are part of the
:30:19. > :30:24.tourism industry. Politician has from all sides have united against
:30:24. > :30:29.the so-called caravan Tax. A recent vote in the House of Commons saw
:30:29. > :30:38.the biggest Tory rebellion since student tuition fees, but is the
:30:38. > :30:42.Government in the mood to It is right that we tried to deal
:30:42. > :30:45.with static caravans fairly and consistently with other products,
:30:45. > :30:48.but we want to listen to the concerns about the impact, and we
:30:48. > :30:53.want to listen to exactly how this would work and what the borderline
:30:53. > :31:00.would be. They used to be a fantastic fishing industry in the
:31:00. > :31:05.UK. Especially in Hull. Government decisions have killed it. It feels
:31:05. > :31:09.like they are doing the same again with the caravan industry. I think
:31:09. > :31:16.in five years' time, we will look back and so that we had a five-
:31:16. > :31:20.month manufacturing industry. -- say that we had a thriving
:31:20. > :31:22.manufacturing industry. One decision will kill it off.
:31:23. > :31:28.Government insists that the proposals are fare, but thousands
:31:28. > :31:34.have signed the cross-party petition calling for them to think
:31:34. > :31:39.again. Within the last 24 hours, there has been a change in the mood
:31:39. > :31:43.music on all of this. Yesterday in the Commons, the business Minister
:31:43. > :31:47.Greg Barker suggested that it was quite possible that they would do
:31:47. > :31:51.some kind of U-turn after rule. You get the impression that this is one
:31:51. > :31:55.of the schemes that the Treasury has in its bottom drawer. They may
:31:55. > :31:58.have tried to slip it through when Labour was in power but they had
:31:58. > :32:04.better political and 10 I, and this time they did get it through.
:32:04. > :32:11.of the things that would never have got past Gordon Brown. -- better
:32:11. > :32:16.political antenna. There are difficulties in the North, at the
:32:16. > :32:20.moment, but it is also a presentational disaster. The pasty
:32:20. > :32:24.tax, the granny tax, all the rest of it. Some of these things have
:32:24. > :32:30.some merit, not all of them. You could certainly make a very good
:32:30. > :32:38.case for the granny tax. But they are sold as if George Osborne had
:32:38. > :32:44.taxed bald nurse or hypoallergenic dogs. -- text being bald. He could
:32:44. > :32:52.not have courted less popularity. Everybody loves caravans in Britain.
:32:52. > :32:56.As long as they are not in front of you on the road! Yes! On that
:32:56. > :33:00.excellent film, when you listen to these people in the North of
:33:00. > :33:05.England, they are making things, working hard, in employment, making
:33:05. > :33:10.things that people want to buy. And they find themselves on the wrong
:33:10. > :33:18.end of Government. Something has gone wrong. It is catastrophic. I
:33:18. > :33:21.blame the Lib Dems. We saw the Damian McBride block. -- blog. The
:33:21. > :33:26.Government produced his wish-list of various taxes that he and Gordon
:33:26. > :33:31.Brown used to batter way. But George Osborne announced quite late
:33:31. > :33:34.in the day that they wanted to cut the top rate of tax. So Danny
:33:34. > :33:38.Alexander and his team looked at what they could ask for in return.
:33:38. > :33:43.Funny you should ask, we have got this list. That is what the Lib
:33:43. > :33:48.Dems demanded as the price of the tax cut. You can tweet and let us
:33:48. > :33:52.know if you are to blame, Lib Dems. The battle for hearts and minds in
:33:52. > :33:57.Scotland gets under way today as those hoping for a yes vote in a
:33:57. > :34:02.referendum on Scottish independence launched their campaign. There has
:34:02. > :34:05.been a blizzard of rhetoric from both sides of the argument, but
:34:05. > :34:10.will any economic facts be introduced before Scottish people
:34:10. > :34:17.have to make up their minds, probably in the autumn of 2014? We
:34:17. > :34:21.said they did to his natural habitat to find out. -- we sent
:34:21. > :34:24.David. The Rob Roy, Scottish pub in the
:34:25. > :34:30.heart of London. The gaffer Jones added is the unofficial embassy and
:34:30. > :34:36.in a few years' time there could be a real one. -- do gaffer jokes that
:34:36. > :34:38.it is the unofficial embassy. Should Scotland be part of the
:34:38. > :34:42.United Kingdom? As a public service broadcaster, I would love to bring
:34:42. > :34:46.you the full economic facts and figures about what that would mean
:34:46. > :34:51.for the UK as a whole and for Scottish people. I would love to
:34:51. > :34:54.but I cannot. And more worryingly, neither can anybody else. It is not
:34:54. > :34:59.possible now to say whether in 10 years' time Scotland would be
:34:59. > :35:04.better off as part of the union of separately. Not definitely better
:35:04. > :35:08.of or worse-off. Incredibly uncertain. Not only that, but you
:35:08. > :35:12.try finding figured that both sides of the debate actually agree on. I
:35:12. > :35:15.have tried it and felt like I have had a night on the hard stuff. But
:35:15. > :35:19.there is a desire to give Scottish people something definitive to go
:35:19. > :35:27.on. Too much of the debate has been wrapped up in a certain and the
:35:27. > :35:32.process of the referendum. -- in assertions. Lots of people want to
:35:32. > :35:34.know what would actually happen. Here is the good news. The
:35:34. > :35:37.Institute of Fiscal Studies are keen to undertake research that
:35:38. > :35:41.they hope will provide some of the answers. The bad news is that even
:35:41. > :35:47.their figures will depend on what happens to the black stuff. Not
:35:47. > :35:50.that! The oil. If you look at the tax revenues including North Sea
:35:50. > :35:55.oil, then their fiscal position is not very different to the rest of
:35:55. > :35:59.the United Kingdom. If you ignore North Sea oil and then the Scottish
:35:59. > :36:04.situation is worse than the rest of the UK, then oil plays a crucial
:36:04. > :36:09.part in the figures. With oil, Scotland is at least as well off as
:36:09. > :36:13.the rest of the UK from a budgetary point of view. So whose oil is it
:36:13. > :36:18.Anyway? At the moment we don't even know that. And if it remains
:36:18. > :36:22.disputed, who decides? If Scotland and England are going to continue
:36:22. > :36:26.as autonomous countries, then they will be sovereigns, and you cannot
:36:26. > :36:31.force sovereigns to solve the dispute. But they are under
:36:31. > :36:34.obligation to resolve any disputes without the use of force. Hopefully
:36:34. > :36:40.they would submit their dispute to the arbitration tribunals. They
:36:40. > :36:48.would tackle the questions submitted to them. From state
:36:48. > :36:51.practice, that can take between two-and-a-half and 10 years.
:36:51. > :36:56.Internationally respected think- tank admit there are more questions
:36:56. > :37:00.than answers. So will anything be clear ever? There are no definitive
:37:00. > :37:04.answers on what Scotland might look like after independence. There
:37:04. > :37:07.would be a long ago station about how you share National that, North
:37:07. > :37:12.Sea oil, defence spending. There is not a single answer about which bit
:37:12. > :37:15.of that is Scotland and which bit is for the rest of the UK. There is
:37:15. > :37:20.no single answer and the question that will remain after independence,
:37:20. > :37:24.after a vote on independence, is how that that association will come
:37:24. > :37:27.out. The one thing that we do know that we know is that the biggest
:37:27. > :37:32.decision that got and takes in centuries may well be made before
:37:32. > :37:36.its people are in full possession of the economic facts. -- that
:37:36. > :37:43.Scotland takes. From yes campaign, Blair Jenkins,
:37:43. > :37:47.the former editor of BBC Scotland and STV. Have you started this
:37:47. > :37:56.campaign so early because the boat is not until 2014 because you are
:37:56. > :37:58.so far behind, 2-1, against independence? Hello. I think there
:37:58. > :38:02.is a tremendous job to be done over the next two-and-a-half years to
:38:02. > :38:10.allow people in Scotland to at all the questions they want to ask and
:38:10. > :38:15.get all the answers to make is important decision. The great thing
:38:15. > :38:21.that has happened today, and it has been an electrifying event, has
:38:21. > :38:28.been a tremendous way to start the campaign. But you concede that 2 -1,
:38:28. > :38:33.Scottish people are against what you want? I think if the opinion
:38:33. > :38:36.polls are saying different things. There is a very large sector of the
:38:36. > :38:41.population who have not made up their mind. I talk to people in all
:38:42. > :38:45.walks of life in Scotland, business, sport and elsewhere. I think that
:38:45. > :38:48.an awful lot of people are at the point where they are going to vote
:38:48. > :38:52.for independence or are heading in that direction and are waiting to
:38:52. > :38:55.be persuaded. I think the job for the campaign over the next couple
:38:55. > :38:58.of years is to nudge the people in Scotland in the direction in which
:38:58. > :39:04.they want to travel anywhere. They are on this journey and they want
:39:04. > :39:07.to be nudged. If you cannot win the argument now, when can you? The
:39:07. > :39:11.Tories are almost irrelevant in Scotland now and the Lib Dems are
:39:11. > :39:18.in meltdown. Labour Party has been on the back that until very
:39:18. > :39:22.recently. -- the back foot. There is an SNP landslide, the country is
:39:22. > :39:29.in recession, and your country has a war chest of millions. If you
:39:29. > :39:32.cannot win now, when can you? A think we are going to win. You are
:39:32. > :39:38.not winning the argument at the moment. I think we are winning the
:39:38. > :39:42.argument. One of the things that we can see right around the world now,
:39:42. > :39:45.in this country and elsewhere, is that very often people are making
:39:45. > :39:51.up their minds on big boat, presidential elections and things,
:39:51. > :39:55.pretty late in the day. -- big votes. And we have seen some
:39:55. > :39:59.results quite late in the campaign. I absolutely believe, and this is
:39:59. > :40:02.my own experience and I have seen data to back this up, that there is
:40:02. > :40:07.a large sector of the population in Scotland that has not made up their
:40:07. > :40:10.minds, but they are willing to be persuaded. It is the wrong
:40:10. > :40:13.perception to think that opinion in Scotland has calcified into those
:40:13. > :40:18.in favour and those against. It certainly has not and there is
:40:18. > :40:21.everything to play for. This team has just come onto the pitch today.
:40:21. > :40:26.I am sure there is everything to play for, but the opinion polls
:40:26. > :40:30.have been quite consistent. Often less than a third are in favour of
:40:30. > :40:35.your side of the argument. There are also two other things that are
:40:35. > :40:39.difficult for you. 30% of Scottish Nationalist voters are against
:40:39. > :40:43.independence! They vote SNP but they are not in favour of
:40:43. > :40:52.independence. And only 27% of women are in favour of independence. That
:40:52. > :40:55.is a hill to climb. You are referring to today's opinion poll,
:40:55. > :41:00.but there are different opinion polls and much depends on what is
:41:00. > :41:03.being asked, as with all opinion polls. But the truth is, I mean,
:41:03. > :41:10.you and I live and work in the political media bubble, that
:41:10. > :41:13.village, and we follow these things very closely, but most folk are not
:41:13. > :41:17.paying a great deal of attention to this at the moment. But they
:41:17. > :41:21.certainly will become engaged in what is going to be a campaign, a
:41:21. > :41:25.movement, over the next couple of years, the scale of which people
:41:25. > :41:30.will never have seen on these islands. I know you do come here
:41:30. > :41:34.sometimes, but just watch. And we will. Can you clarify one issue for
:41:34. > :41:38.me? It is quite important for the future and defence of these islands,
:41:38. > :41:44.which we are all part of, with an independent Scotland be part of
:41:44. > :41:49.NATO? I am not going to give you an opinion on that. Why not, it is
:41:49. > :41:53.quite important? As you know, I come from a broadcasting background
:41:53. > :41:58.and I am not used to this sort of platform. It is the first time I
:41:58. > :42:03.have ever expressed an opinion about anything. I understand but
:42:03. > :42:09.the linchpin of our communal defence is the membership of NATO.
:42:09. > :42:15.People are pledged to come to our aid should we be under attack. If
:42:15. > :42:18.Scotland is independent, will we or will we not be part of NATO?
:42:18. > :42:23.think that is a very valid question and it needs to be addressed over
:42:23. > :42:27.the next two-and-a-half years. I think the weight of opinion that is
:42:27. > :42:31.here today is behind the idea that whatever decision we are making,
:42:31. > :42:36.about NATO, the currency, anything else, that the people best place to
:42:36. > :42:40.take those decisions for Scotland of the people living in Scotland. I
:42:40. > :42:43.think policy decisions, including important ones about NATO
:42:43. > :42:47.membership, are for another day. Not today. They certainly need to
:42:47. > :42:51.be dealt with between now and the day of the vote. I can give you a
:42:51. > :42:56.personal view, and I am open to the argument. I do not have a fixed you
:42:56. > :43:00.and I would like to hear both sides. Was it not a mistake to launch the
:43:01. > :43:05.campaign in a cinema where the double bill is The Dictator and
:43:05. > :43:09.Dark Shadows? You know Scotland well enough to know that cinemas
:43:09. > :43:15.play an extraordinarily powerful role in Scottish life. We are in
:43:15. > :43:24.Edinburgh, but Glasgow had at one time the highest number of cinemas
:43:24. > :43:28.per head of anywhere in the world. It was just a joke! So numbers --
:43:28. > :43:33.sinners have an important resonance. That was just a silly joke from me.
:43:33. > :43:40.But we have to thank you for joining us.
:43:40. > :43:45.Where are you on this? Better than Jaws! I think Alex Salmond will be
:43:45. > :43:50.in trouble on this. You do? I think that tide and time have turned
:43:50. > :43:54.against him, rather. He got one- third of the council vote when
:43:54. > :43:58.Labour fully expected to lose Glasgow. Labour did well, and be
:43:58. > :44:05.seen to be on their way back in the West. There is that, but it seems
:44:05. > :44:12.to me so unclear. There is the NATO issue, but independence as it is
:44:12. > :44:16.being talked about is not that difference to devo max. They will
:44:16. > :44:20.get some more tax powers. I think general confidence in being a
:44:20. > :44:24.nation will not be riding high on this. I think Scotland should be
:44:25. > :44:29.able to raise its own taxes and pay its own bills, but I would like it
:44:29. > :44:33.to become part of the union. Devo max is the best outcome but how do
:44:33. > :44:37.we get there? The danger of including it in the ballot, if that
:44:37. > :44:43.wins, that will empower people to demand a second referendum in five
:44:43. > :44:50.or 10 years. I think we should make it straight yes or no, but if it is
:44:50. > :44:58.no, at give them devo max anyway. Or give them a debate?
:44:58. > :45:03.We have had my colt both -- we have had Michael Gove saying that
:45:03. > :45:05.teaching is holding back poorer kids and many would like to see the
:45:05. > :45:10.return of grammar schools, but Michael Gove has said this will not
:45:10. > :45:14.be a magic bullet. The Deputy Minister Nick Clegg has also laid
:45:14. > :45:18.out an entire social mobility strategy from the Government. His
:45:18. > :45:28.recipe is a pupil premium, subsidised nursery care, and
:45:28. > :45:30.
:45:30. > :45:34.demanding that universities give Mobility is about creating a truly
:45:34. > :45:39.level playing field and a fair race. This is why the coalition
:45:39. > :45:43.government is encouraging universities to recruit on the
:45:43. > :45:49.basis of objective potential, on the basis of an ability to excel,
:45:49. > :45:53.not purely on previous attainment. It may surprise the none Brits
:45:53. > :45:58.among you to learn that in some quarters in the UK, the idea of
:45:58. > :46:02.carefully taking into account the impact of background in assessing
:46:02. > :46:08.university applications has been painted by some as a dangerous
:46:08. > :46:13.piece of revolutionary socialism. But far from dumbing down, is Sir
:46:13. > :46:21.about increasing opportunity to achieve excellence. Joining us now,
:46:21. > :46:25.the Lib Dem MP Mike Crockatt. He joins us from Edinburgh. Our two
:46:25. > :46:29.studio guests have strong interests in social mobility. When will we
:46:29. > :46:38.know if anything of this is working? Of Illsley, it will take
:46:38. > :46:41.some time, because the plan is to try to help to-year-olds, three-
:46:41. > :46:45.year-old and four-year-olds. It has been shown that that is the best
:46:45. > :46:49.place to invest money. It is too late later on to try and make the
:46:49. > :46:54.difference, because children have already pulled ahead. We need to
:46:54. > :46:59.invest the majority of the money available in two early years. And
:46:59. > :47:04.that is what we are doing. Is it better or worse than it was,
:47:04. > :47:10.compared with 30 years ago? I would say broadly, it is fairly similar.
:47:10. > :47:14.All that has been done over the last 30 years has improved the lot
:47:14. > :47:24.generally for all children across the spectrum. But the gap between
:47:24. > :47:28.the richest and poorest has stayed pretty much the same. Toby Young,
:47:28. > :47:32.this is like apple-pie and peace, everybody is in favour of it and
:47:32. > :47:36.they talk endlessly about it. You sometimes wonder if the more people
:47:37. > :47:40.talk about it, the less happens. It is a nebulous concept. Successive
:47:40. > :47:46.governments have made doing something about social mobility a
:47:46. > :47:50.priority, and yet it has continued to decline. In defence of the Lib
:47:50. > :47:54.Dems, intervention in nursery, all the research evidence is that that
:47:54. > :47:59.is how to deploy your resources most effectively if you want to do
:47:59. > :48:02.something about social mobility. Better nursery care and be re-
:48:02. > :48:05.education -- pre-school education. The pupil premium is a good idea,
:48:05. > :48:13.but I would draw the line at insisting that our best
:48:13. > :48:18.universities lower the standards for students from state schools. We
:48:18. > :48:22.need to raise standards. I And yet evidence suggests that when bright
:48:22. > :48:26.state schools kids get to our best universities, they end up with the
:48:26. > :48:30.best degrees. The air is no reason why those same children should and
:48:30. > :48:34.do just as well at secondary school so that they are able to compete
:48:34. > :48:37.with the product of independent schools. Maybe those schools are
:48:37. > :48:42.not conducive to go in to university. He will are looking at
:48:42. > :48:46.a narrow band. I applaud what Nick Clegg has been trying to do. It has
:48:46. > :48:54.been a big crusade for him. And I agree with Toby that it is all
:48:54. > :49:00.about early-years. But in the end, it is all filtered through the top
:49:00. > :49:05.few percentage of kids, the elite universities, Oxbridge. You will
:49:05. > :49:09.always get a few bright children who can be helped to make their way
:49:09. > :49:14.through, and that is important. But Ed Miliband made a decent speech on
:49:14. > :49:19.social mobility this week. He is looking much lower down the line,
:49:19. > :49:27.not just at university entrants, but looking at this huge
:49:27. > :49:29.unemployment problem for kids who will not get an apprenticeship or
:49:29. > :49:35.vocational qualifications in engineering and so on. They are
:49:35. > :49:41.being downgraded rather than value. It is difficult to entrenched any
:49:41. > :49:44.sort of parity. Mike, you have got the social mobility transparency
:49:45. > :49:48.board, whatever that means. You have the social mobility and child
:49:48. > :49:52.poverty Commission. You have the ministerial group on social
:49:52. > :49:57.mobility. If government quangos were the answer, we would be the
:49:57. > :50:01.most mobile country in the world. In the end, if you want to get
:50:01. > :50:08.social mobility across the spectrum, don't you just have to see a
:50:08. > :50:13.massive improvement in the quality of state education? Absolutely.
:50:13. > :50:18.That is the bottom line. And that is what we are trying to do. We are
:50:19. > :50:22.trying to make sure that children entering the education system are
:50:22. > :50:26.already on a level playing field and do not have to catch up. The
:50:26. > :50:30.evidence shows that they don't catch up. By the gap between the
:50:30. > :50:36.private schools and state schools has never been wider. It is getting
:50:36. > :50:40.worse. Broadly, it is staying the same. But the state schools are
:50:40. > :50:44.getting better and the private schools are getting better, but the
:50:44. > :50:49.gap remains the same. It is great to hear such support across the
:50:49. > :50:54.board for what we are trying to do with the pupil premium. But there
:50:54. > :50:56.is other stuff going on. There is �1 billion invested in the youth
:50:56. > :51:02.contract, which is trying to deal with the issue of apprenticeships.
:51:02. > :51:07.This morning, I hosted an event at Murrayfield stadium that had 100
:51:07. > :51:11.people in business from across Edinburgh. I was trying to sell to
:51:11. > :51:17.them the new contract, the Modern apprenticeship, business mentoring.
:51:17. > :51:22.There is a lot of other stuff going on to make sure we help those
:51:22. > :51:29.fallen behind to catch up. But the answer is undoubtedly to get in
:51:29. > :51:36.early. There is only one place available at Balliol College,
:51:37. > :51:43.Oxford. There are two candidates. One has five A * A-levels. He is
:51:43. > :51:49.from Eton. The other has four * A levels. She is from Easterhouse
:51:49. > :51:55.high. Who should get the place? one from Easterhouse high would not
:51:55. > :52:01.have A-levels. But you get my point. I did A-levels, and I was educated
:52:01. > :52:08.in Scotland. But leaving that aside, let's look at the potential of the
:52:08. > :52:15.individual. Let's look at the individuals applying and see how
:52:15. > :52:20.they sell themselves and what they can potentially achieve. You would
:52:20. > :52:27.do it by an interview? You would automatic it in favour of the Old
:52:27. > :52:31.Etonian. Not at all. We? Yes. I have two apprentices in London at
:52:31. > :52:35.the moment. Quite purposefully, neither of them have come from a
:52:35. > :52:41.private education background. They are both very capable and
:52:41. > :52:46.interviewed very well. You're serious point is that nobody ever
:52:46. > :52:54.talks about downward social mobility. It is a one-way street.
:52:54. > :52:58.So your Eton candidate with the five A *, his parents are not
:52:58. > :53:04.likely to relinquish this privilege. This is something Nick Clegg fell
:53:04. > :53:10.foul of himself this week, and credit to him for doing so. He was
:53:10. > :53:14.accused of all sorts of interference. We are running out of
:53:14. > :53:18.time. Thanks for joining us. Now let's look back at the Week in
:53:18. > :53:28.politics, a week when the sun came out over Big Ben and the red mist
:53:28. > :53:31.descended in the chamber. The week started with Camp David.
:53:31. > :53:36.That is David Cameron, who cheered on Chelsea during the G8 summit,
:53:36. > :53:41.held at President Obama's woodland retreat. Then he was off to the
:53:41. > :53:44.NATO summit in Chicago, where he had enough time for a walk in the
:53:44. > :53:49.weeds with the mayor of the Windy City. But when Cameron got back to
:53:50. > :53:53.Westminster, he was not his usually relaxed self when confronted with
:53:53. > :53:57.Ed Balls. We have we would not have if we listened to the muttering
:53:57. > :54:02.idiot sitting opposite. That's earned a ticking off from the
:54:02. > :54:07.Speaker. But Vince Cable also got one for going to Germany instead of
:54:07. > :54:10.his departmental Question Time in the Commons. It is undesirable for
:54:10. > :54:15.the Secretary of State to be absent on these occasions. It must not
:54:15. > :54:19.become regular practice. Finally, the Prince of darkness met the Lord
:54:20. > :54:28.Justice of transparency. Mandy told the Leveson Inquiry he had never
:54:28. > :54:33.leaked a story, ever. Honestly, never.
:54:33. > :54:36.Honestly, he never did. No, if you think the tempers got
:54:36. > :54:46.frayed in the House of Commons this week, take a look at these scenes
:54:46. > :54:51.from the Ukrainian parliament. A debate about giving the Russian
:54:51. > :55:01.language equal status in part of the country rather descended into
:55:01. > :55:03.
:55:03. > :55:05.this. It got quite serious. Somehow, I don't think the Ukraine will be
:55:06. > :55:15.giving these Russian granny's "douze points" in tomorrow night's
:55:15. > :55:19.Eurovision Song Contest. Of course, in the Mother of parliaments, the
:55:19. > :55:26.men in tights would have moved in and separated them quickly. Let's
:55:26. > :55:34.come back to our own place. The Prime Minister was firstly accused
:55:34. > :55:38.of relaxing and being too concerned with football, and then he became
:55:38. > :55:41.angry day event could not control his temper. What is the truth? That
:55:41. > :55:48.her as been the narrative around this event. He did not look as
:55:48. > :55:51.though he had lost his temper. was riled. He was, but he often
:55:52. > :55:56.gives as good as he gets across the dispatch box, and that was just an
:55:56. > :56:02.example of that. His own side loved it. George Osborne was crying for
:56:02. > :56:10.more. No under less, you also have to look at Ed Balls' face. Nobody
:56:10. > :56:14.was happy at Ed Balls being called a muttering idiot. The reason for
:56:14. > :56:20.this is the notion that David Cameron does lose his temper, and
:56:20. > :56:26.he can't always control it. That is perceived as damaging by Labour, so
:56:26. > :56:31.obviously, they try and get the rise out of him. I think all 10
:56:31. > :56:34.people watching the Daily Politics when that was shown appreciate the
:56:34. > :56:38.fact that David Cameron is a human being and sometimes loses his
:56:38. > :56:43.temper. He is not preaching self- control. One of the criticisms on
:56:43. > :56:47.Cameron on my side is that he does not get angry enough, he does not
:56:47. > :56:51.hate your position as much as they hate him. So it was good to see a
:56:51. > :56:55.bit of rage. He isn't there a great difference between Gen run --
:56:55. > :57:00.genuine passion and anger and slagging off the other side?
:57:00. > :57:08.Calling Ed Balls a muttering idiot is not quite of Ukrainian
:57:08. > :57:15.proportions. But it is still public school playground knockabout at its
:57:15. > :57:20.kindest. That is how it was perceived. Ed Balls himself is a
:57:21. > :57:24.public schoolboy. In deed. But in the long run, the more he gets
:57:25. > :57:29.riled up by Ed Balls, the more he will be determined to stop Ed Balls
:57:29. > :57:36.succeeding him. Gladstone let off steam by felling trees. Winston
:57:36. > :57:42.Churchill painted. Robert Walpole brewed his own beer. And our Prime
:57:42. > :57:47.Minister does fruit ninja. Before we go, let's find out the answer to
:57:48. > :57:56.our quiz. The question was which politician drag Toby Young under a
:57:56. > :58:02.table. Can you remember who it was? I can. It was the great UKIP leader
:58:02. > :58:09.himself, Nigel Farage. I had heard he was a legendary drinker, so
:58:09. > :58:15.rather mischievously, at a book party, I said to him, how about a
:58:15. > :58:19.drinking contest? Then he started lining up the vodka shots and
:58:19. > :58:25.started back in the way. Within an hour or so, he had won. You drank
:58:25. > :58:28.vodka shots from our? How many did you get through? Not as many as
:58:28. > :58:34.Nigel. He was still standing and very much compos mentis at the end
:58:34. > :58:38.of it. He thank you to both of you for being with me today and keeping
:58:38. > :58:44.the company. That is it for today. We thank all our guests. The One
:58:44. > :58:48.O'clock News is starting on BBC One now. I will be back on BBC One on
:58:48. > :58:52.Sunday at 11 o'clock in the morning, with the Sunday Politics. Hope you
:58:52. > :58:56.can join me then. But that is it for the Daily Politics. We are off