:00:46. > :00:50.Afternoon, welcome to the Daily Politics. The people of Greece vote
:00:50. > :00:52.in effect to stay in the euro. The New Democracy Party, which broadly
:00:52. > :00:55.supports the international bailout, achieved a narrow victory in
:00:55. > :00:57.yesterday's elections and is now trying to form a coalition
:00:57. > :01:01.government. World leaders meeting in Mexico have welcomed the result.
:01:01. > :01:06.But the euro's not out of the woods yet. The good ship coalition
:01:06. > :01:14.appears to be heading for choppy waters. We'll be looking at what
:01:14. > :01:17.might sink it. They get to smile and wave at the camera but is being
:01:17. > :01:20.a cabinet minister all it's cracked up to be? And we'll be lending
:01:20. > :01:28.members of the House of Lords a helping hand over their
:01:28. > :01:35.pronunciation. It appears some of them need it. President Harland is
:01:35. > :01:44.not President Hollander. I accept these wires rebukes about my
:01:44. > :01:51.pronunciation, it has never been very good soul or practise more. --
:01:51. > :01:53.good, so I will practise more. that in the next hour. And with us
:01:53. > :01:56.for the first half of today's programme is Matthew Taylor, the
:01:56. > :01:59.Chief Executive of the Royal Society for the encouragement of
:01:59. > :02:05.Arts, Manufactures and Commerce, or the RSA as it's better known!
:02:05. > :02:08.Welcome. Now Matthew also used to work for Tony Blair when he was
:02:08. > :02:11.Prime Minister, so we might as well start by asking him about the
:02:11. > :02:16.current spat in the Labour party. Some trade unions are attempting to
:02:16. > :02:22.expel the New Labour pressure group, Progress, from the party. On that
:02:22. > :02:25.basis is Ed Miliband actually listening to progress? Progress is
:02:25. > :02:32.an open organisation which represents the modernising strand
:02:32. > :02:37.of thought, Ed Miliband spoke recently and made clear yesterday
:02:37. > :02:43.he does not support this rather odd idea from the trade unions that he
:02:43. > :02:48.should be expelled. Saw a thing he has made his position clear. Trade
:02:48. > :02:55.unions tend to be debated by activists who tend to be more left-
:02:55. > :03:00.wing than activist so -- dominated. So calling for a think tank is just
:03:00. > :03:03.a token gesture but it gives Ed Miliband a chance to do what he has
:03:03. > :03:08.done more loudly, which has to say he is not standing for this
:03:08. > :03:12.nonsense. Peter Mandelson is saying Ed Miliband is listening closely to
:03:12. > :03:18.this new Labour think tank. Is that being provocative to the trade
:03:18. > :03:23.unions? Ensure the existence of Peter Mandelson on this earth is
:03:24. > :03:30.provocative to trade unions. It is clear he is speaking tour part of
:03:30. > :03:34.the party because he is leading this policy review so politicians
:03:34. > :03:38.are looking for good ideas, particularly at a time of austerity
:03:38. > :03:41.there are not that many around, so you will take them from wherever he
:03:41. > :03:50.can get them. He was clear yesterday that he wants the Labour
:03:50. > :03:55.Party to be a broad church. Is this a throwback to the Blair, Brown era,
:03:55. > :04:01.still in fighting, still splits. It does not give the Labour Party a
:04:01. > :04:06.great image. Because of our electoral system we have big
:04:06. > :04:09.parties that range widely. The Conservatives are the same, right
:04:09. > :04:14.wing, moderate Conservatives, it is the same in labour, they will
:04:14. > :04:17.always be people who say controversial things. The challenge
:04:17. > :04:25.for Ed Miliband is to work with that group of people but never
:04:25. > :04:30.looked like he is beholden to any faction. Now it's time for our
:04:30. > :04:38.daily quiz. The question for today is... Which of these bailout
:04:38. > :04:44.countries is no longer in the European Football Championship?
:04:44. > :04:48.We'll try and find out the answer for you by the end of the show. The
:04:48. > :04:54.big fear ahead of elections was that Greece may be forced out of
:04:54. > :04:57.the single currency. Has there been a sense of relief at the news
:04:57. > :05:04.voters might have backed the country then release supports the
:05:04. > :05:09.bail-out package. Then joined by its chief economist at Schroders.
:05:09. > :05:14.Any favourable response seems to have been wiped already. The relief
:05:14. > :05:18.rally was quite short lived. We got quite a nice start to the morning,
:05:18. > :05:23.Asia was rallying but what we have seen now as a focus on the bigger
:05:23. > :05:27.picture and there has been a sharp rise in Spanish bond deals this
:05:27. > :05:32.morning which have now gone over 7% so it looks like the markets are
:05:32. > :05:37.moving on from Greece and focusing on the bigger picture and looking
:05:37. > :05:47.at the problems in Spain. Do you think Greece is a sideshow on that
:05:47. > :05:48.
:05:48. > :05:52.With Greece, although it is problematic, the European Union has
:05:52. > :05:57.the resources to be able to solve that problem, they can keep funding
:05:57. > :06:03.Greece. The difficulty is what tons to they do it on and how much do
:06:03. > :06:07.they allow? The problem with Spain and the economy is it is very big
:06:07. > :06:11.and would absorb nearly all the resources that have been put aside
:06:11. > :06:16.for a crisis in the eurozone. So that is what the markets are
:06:16. > :06:21.concerned about. A what about looking ahead? If all the leaders
:06:21. > :06:24.are saying some time has been bought, what -- is their chance the
:06:24. > :06:30.markets will be calmed or will they just go after the other vulnerable
:06:30. > :06:34.countries in the eurozone? I think they're looking for the European
:06:34. > :06:38.Union to come up with a solution and I think that would have to be
:06:38. > :06:41.one where the debt in the eurozone is neutralised or brought across a
:06:41. > :06:46.common basis. In other words, Germany putting in funding to help
:06:46. > :06:50.support those countries through lower interest rates. Unless we see
:06:50. > :06:55.that I think the markets will continue to pick away at countries
:06:55. > :06:58.that are weak economically and have big debt problems. That means the
:06:58. > :07:01.problem could continue into next year and the problem comes back to
:07:01. > :07:11.the politicians who why the only ones who can provide that
:07:11. > :07:12.
:07:12. > :07:21.submission. Sajid doubt that it is the Conservative MP and economics
:07:21. > :07:25.editor of the Guardian, the Larry Elliott. -- Sajid David. I think at
:07:25. > :07:32.some point Greece may leave the euro of its own will be booted out
:07:32. > :07:41.by the rest of Europe. It is one of the four options for dealing with
:07:41. > :07:46.this crisis. Do you think the hints coming out of Berlin that Germany
:07:46. > :07:52.might relax the terms of the bail- out is going to change anything
:07:52. > :07:58.dramatically? I don't actually. I think the problems of Greece are so
:07:58. > :08:01.intractable that even more time is not going to solve the problem. The
:08:01. > :08:04.Germans are in a position where they do not want be responsible for
:08:04. > :08:09.breaking of the euro, they don't want to through Greece out, they
:08:09. > :08:14.want crease to come along and say we have had enough, we cannot cope.
:08:14. > :08:20.I think the Germans will make life difficult enough for Greece so that
:08:20. > :08:24.option happens. So that would make the Germans -- the lives of the
:08:24. > :08:34.Germans easier. Is that privately what the Conservatives would like
:08:34. > :08:37.to see? I don't think that's correct. Our view is now the euro
:08:37. > :08:42.has been created the genie is out of the bottle, we cannot reverse it,
:08:42. > :08:49.the best thing is to try and find a way for it to survive. Even with
:08:49. > :08:54.Greece in it? The at is up to Greece. The thing yesterday was the
:08:54. > :08:59.least bad of two options but the problems of the day before I still
:09:00. > :09:03.still -- still all there. Is David Cameron right to urge closer
:09:03. > :09:10.integration in the eurozone with a banking union under Germany's
:09:10. > :09:15.control? There are only four ways out of this crisis, one is that
:09:16. > :09:22.Greece and the other countries can have austerity forever. The other
:09:22. > :09:25.is to have high inflation, the third is that the Germans write
:09:25. > :09:29.cheques in definitely for the rest of the eurozone so they get their
:09:29. > :09:35.credit card out and fund everybody else's deficit, or they could be
:09:35. > :09:43.some kind of break-up. Unfortunately the eurozone has
:09:43. > :09:47.decided it doesn't want any of those options. So the result is
:09:47. > :09:56.kicking the can down the road and I think we are close to the end of
:09:56. > :10:06.that road. Why? You just heard about Spanish bombs at 7.1%, that
:10:06. > :10:07.
:10:07. > :10:15.suggests to me the end of the road is rapidly approaching. -- bombs. -
:10:15. > :10:20.We are told the issue is the Greek election, it goes the right way,
:10:20. > :10:24.but it makes no difference. All the small things will not do it, the
:10:24. > :10:29.only way to achieve change is from a level of leadership which seems
:10:29. > :10:35.to be beyond our current national leaders. What would that the bishop
:10:35. > :10:39.had to do? It would have to be what David Cameron is saying, a higher
:10:39. > :10:45.level of integration with Germany in the driving seat. That is the
:10:45. > :10:49.only way out of this. Otherwise the question is, is this a rapid or
:10:49. > :10:58.slow car crash? I think we are in agreement here. A single currency
:10:58. > :11:01.was never going to work without some kind of fiscal or political
:11:01. > :11:11.union, one has never survived so this problem was always going to
:11:11. > :11:12.
:11:12. > :11:16.occur. It requires decisive action by European leaders. Now is a time
:11:16. > :11:21.to make a decision. If you are talking about banking and closer
:11:21. > :11:27.fiscal integration, that will not happen tomorrow, that is not going
:11:27. > :11:37.to happen in a couple of weeks, it will not save Spain. The markets
:11:37. > :11:40.
:11:40. > :11:44.are now operating in a faster -- at The problem now is any of those
:11:44. > :11:48.political solutions that David Cameron has offered will take time
:11:48. > :11:52.and requires countries like Spain to be prepared to bow to German
:11:52. > :11:56.demands to be able to run their fiscal policy. I somewhat doubt the
:11:56. > :11:59.Spanish government will want the Germans in their saying you have to
:11:59. > :12:02.raise this amount of tax, you can only spend it on these issues.
:12:02. > :12:06.These issues are issues that national governments normally
:12:06. > :12:11.decide and the idea that Madrid or Rome will say we will allow Angela
:12:11. > :12:15.Merkel to take -- dictate the terms of our budget is improbable. I do
:12:15. > :12:18.not think we should let the does off the hook. If there was a short
:12:18. > :12:21.leadership at the G20 demonstrating politicians have moved to a
:12:21. > :12:31.different level of understanding of this, if the markets felt it was
:12:31. > :12:35.being gripped, the fact it might take time to work out the details,
:12:35. > :12:42.they need to feel there is a qualitative difference in the way
:12:42. > :12:48.leaders are gripping this. Why did we do it in 2008 and now it feels
:12:48. > :12:52.like we can't? Whereas the sense of urgency? Why does it appear that
:12:52. > :12:57.they are powerless to do anything? I think the European leaders really
:12:57. > :13:02.know what they need to do. Neutralise debts, have a banking
:13:02. > :13:07.union to have a common treasury. But that won't save the situation
:13:07. > :13:10.as it is now. Spain and Italy are in a perilous state at this moment.
:13:10. > :13:15.If European leaders set out concrete steps to achieve it it
:13:15. > :13:19.would change the situation. cannot ignore the markets. I spent
:13:19. > :13:22.20 years as a bond trader before it became a politician and you cannot
:13:22. > :13:26.buck the markets. The markets are looking at these countries and
:13:26. > :13:31.asking for action. It is up to the politicians in the eurozone to
:13:31. > :13:35.deliver. Our job is to protect our economy from this debt storm to
:13:35. > :13:39.deal with the debt we have inherited. How are they doing that?
:13:40. > :13:46.We cut our deficit for a quarter since this government was elected.
:13:46. > :13:50.But still no growth. We inherited an economy built on debt, we have a
:13:50. > :13:54.European debt storm building. At a time like that the main requirement
:13:54. > :13:59.is to protect the economy. Some of the measures you have seen, like
:13:59. > :14:03.last week, the funding for lending scheme, designed to protect the
:14:03. > :14:08.economy. Is it enough? I don't think so. These are stop-gap
:14:08. > :14:12.measures. The government is worried about the state of the economy.
:14:12. > :14:16.People I speak to say things have deteriorated in the last couple of
:14:16. > :14:20.months, the economy has deep structural problems and we're not
:14:20. > :14:28.going to get through those easily. The European problem makes it much
:14:28. > :14:32.We need to rebalance the economy away from debt and towards
:14:32. > :14:36.productive capacity of exports but that will not happen any time soon.
:14:36. > :14:46.Certainly not with the European debt crisis raging. Leaders can't
:14:46. > :14:53.really do anything against this, can they? All they can do globally
:14:53. > :14:57.is to call for leadership. Domestically, I think the problem
:14:57. > :15:03.is we are trying to move from an old house which was in many ways
:15:03. > :15:06.built on weak foundations and to actually build a new house based on
:15:06. > :15:11.strong foundations and it is not clear we can do both. So much
:15:11. > :15:17.energy is going to manage and the problems of the past and there is a
:15:17. > :15:27.lack of any credible account of what Britain will feel like in 15
:15:27. > :15:28.
:15:28. > :15:35.In your book, you have talked about Britain heading for the Third World
:15:35. > :15:42.economy - how did you come to that conclusion? We have used the North
:15:42. > :15:52.Sea oil, will have 15 years were a real incomes don't grow at all, we
:15:52. > :15:57.
:15:57. > :16:01.will be in 2017 by the time in comes get back, we have had
:16:01. > :16:07.stalling public growth and we are struggling to find new sources of
:16:07. > :16:12.growth. Britain faces deep structural problems. We have
:16:12. > :16:18.papered over the cracks for many years, using the proceeds of North
:16:18. > :16:22.Sea oil, and now the bills are having to be paid. We have suddenly
:16:22. > :16:32.reached a reality check point and the UK economy is not a pretty
:16:32. > :16:35.picture. Do you share that gloomy prediction? No, if lorry is saying
:16:35. > :16:40.we are facing some serious challenges, of course we are. We
:16:40. > :16:46.are the seventh largest economy in the world and 60% of our trade is
:16:46. > :16:51.with the eurozone. The key right now is to make sure Britain remains
:16:51. > :16:55.a safe haven, that we keep low interest rates and deal with the
:16:55. > :17:03.deficit that we inherited, and try to deal with a lot of those
:17:03. > :17:07.problems. You will prove him wrong by 2014 then? Absolutely. He makes
:17:07. > :17:12.an important point, which is that we have not realised how far we
:17:12. > :17:18.have already slipped behind. Looking at average in comes and
:17:18. > :17:23.inequality, if you combine those we are falling down the league table
:17:23. > :17:27.in terms of income and up the table in terms of inequality. Great
:17:27. > :17:33.Britain is a very bad place to be poor and I don't think people have
:17:33. > :17:40.noticed how far we have slipped behind other countries. We have got
:17:40. > :17:47.hold of our correspondent in Athens. Can you hear me? There are pretty
:17:47. > :17:53.gloomy predictions from our guests here, what is the mood like in
:17:53. > :17:57.Athens after the election? The mood is pretty sober, to put it mildly.
:17:57. > :18:02.I am looking over constitution Square. Last night the place was
:18:02. > :18:08.almost deserted, apart from a few people letting off firecrackers for
:18:08. > :18:13.the sake of appearances. It is not hard to see why. It was tough in
:18:13. > :18:17.Greece yesterday, it will be tough for a long time to come. They are
:18:17. > :18:24.going through the process of trying to put the government together, but
:18:24. > :18:28.just imagine the coalition talks in Britain in 2010, then think of them
:18:28. > :18:34.faster and more complicated. At the end of it there will be a
:18:35. > :18:39.government, but it will have the difficult job of trying to get a
:18:39. > :18:46.better deal as far as the bail-out is concerned and selling it to the
:18:46. > :18:50.Greek people. Are you confident there will be some bail-out
:18:50. > :18:55.government formed in the next few days? They are confident there will
:18:55. > :18:59.be a government. We can be reasonably sure of that. At the
:18:59. > :19:05.moment the winner of the election, the New democracy party, is trying
:19:05. > :19:09.to find the main other party it could do business with, but that
:19:09. > :19:12.old Labour Party doesn't want to get into bed with the old enemy
:19:12. > :19:18.without getting someone else in there as well and that is proving
:19:18. > :19:24.difficult. It is looking like there will be a coalition, and then in
:19:24. > :19:28.gets really difficult. The powers- that-be are moving to soften the
:19:28. > :19:32.deal with Greece and that might help but it was tough before the
:19:32. > :19:37.elections persuading the Greek people the austerity would be worth
:19:37. > :19:41.it and it will get harder and harder. Thank you.
:19:41. > :19:46.A failing care system, a billion pound bill, hundreds of children
:19:46. > :19:51.reported missing and at risk of sexual abuse. An all-party group
:19:51. > :19:56.today has published a damning report on care homes, and before we
:19:56. > :20:05.go to the reporter - I have forgotten to say thank you to my
:20:05. > :20:09.guest - our reporter can tell us more. This report comes just a
:20:09. > :20:18.month after nine men were convicted in Rochdale of sexually exploiting
:20:18. > :20:24.young girls, one of hair -- one of whom was in a care home. I am
:20:24. > :20:30.joined now by Ann Coffey and Councillor David Simmons. What were
:20:30. > :20:34.the main findings of your report? We think the care system is failing
:20:34. > :20:40.some very vulnerable young people who go missing and run away, and
:20:40. > :20:44.thereby put themselves at risk of sexual grooming and exploitation.
:20:44. > :20:48.Propagator is not being collected, we don't know how many children go
:20:48. > :20:53.missing and crucially what they do when they go missing. There is
:20:53. > :20:58.inadequate data sharing between the police and children's services and
:20:58. > :21:02.the police have a duty to safeguard children. They should share data
:21:02. > :21:07.properly, and they have poor practices working together at a
:21:07. > :21:11.local level, which means children are not being safeguarded within
:21:11. > :21:16.the care system. Councillor David Simmons, why aren't you working
:21:16. > :21:21.more closely with the police in this terrible situation? This
:21:21. > :21:26.report makes very uncomfortable reading for anybody, in the police,
:21:26. > :21:30.the NHS, the voluntary sector responsible for children in the
:21:30. > :21:35.care system, but it is also clear that the multiple different sort of
:21:35. > :21:42.regulations, the way in which different police forces, different
:21:42. > :21:46.council's approach this has created a statistical fog. The key thing to
:21:46. > :21:50.helping children who are vulnerable is not just sharing data but also
:21:50. > :21:55.the intelligence about what is going on in their lives. When we
:21:55. > :22:01.think they might be at risk, we can pick that up and intervene earlier
:22:01. > :22:06.on. That requires good information sharing, from health professionals,
:22:06. > :22:13.please, Von Trier organisations and those responsible for running care
:22:13. > :22:17.homes. That is pretty shocking - the police and councils don't know
:22:17. > :22:22.where the care homes are, and many of them are in areas where there
:22:22. > :22:27.was already paedophilia. That is shocking, isn't it? It is shocking
:22:27. > :22:33.that a sexual predator can be sitting in a car outside children's
:22:33. > :22:38.home, targeting them, often having followed a child that has moved to
:22:38. > :22:41.escape sexual exploitation. The children don't even know the care
:22:41. > :22:45.home exist and sometimes the local authority doesn't even know the
:22:45. > :22:52.child has been placed there. That is what I mean about having to get
:22:52. > :22:57.a much better system of working together. Presumably this is about
:22:57. > :22:59.attracting the right people, some of whom work in a supermarket one
:22:59. > :23:04.day and next day they are responsible for the most vulnerable
:23:04. > :23:08.children. It was interesting that the people who came to give
:23:08. > :23:12.evidence talked about not being listened to, and part of that issue
:23:12. > :23:16.is not having the staff with the level of training skills that can
:23:16. > :23:21.hear what the young people are saying, here behind the words, and
:23:21. > :23:27.it is a big issue. This is why we want to further investigation into
:23:27. > :23:30.whether care homes are offering the kind of skills in supporting and
:23:30. > :23:38.protecting, safeguarding, and dealing with the underlying
:23:38. > :23:42.problems that cause children to go away. Is that a problem you
:23:42. > :23:47.recognise as well? A very much so, and I think it is a helpful
:23:47. > :23:51.recommendation that has come forward. At the moment Ofsted,
:23:51. > :23:56.responsible for regulating children's homes, don't let the
:23:56. > :24:00.police know where they are or the standard of service. We know they
:24:00. > :24:04.are required to meet a certain basic standard, but for a council
:24:04. > :24:09.looking to move a child away from a place where they have been a victim
:24:09. > :24:13.of abuse to break that cycle of abuse, we need to know that home
:24:13. > :24:17.they are going to will be providing them with the safe and well,
:24:17. > :24:20.environment. I spoke to a government adviser earlier who says
:24:20. > :24:29.they want to rattle the cage and make sure that when children go
:24:29. > :24:33.missing, alarm bells to ring. At first glance, being a Cabinet
:24:34. > :24:38.minister might look like a cushy number - lashings of power, civil
:24:38. > :24:43.servants to do your every bidding, and a nice car. But you also get
:24:43. > :24:47.intense pressure, ferocious criticism, and that is just from
:24:47. > :24:53.your own backbenchers, and the constant threat of the sack. Most
:24:53. > :24:57.of the top team have been under fire at one time or another, so is
:24:57. > :25:03.being a Cabinet minister all it is cracked up to be? We sensed David
:25:03. > :25:07.to find out. If you are MMP, it doesn't get much better than this.
:25:07. > :25:12.Walking into Downing Street for the first time as a fresh-faced newly-
:25:12. > :25:16.minted member of the Cabinet. But all too soon reality kicks in and
:25:16. > :25:21.the seat at the big table of British politics gets very hot.
:25:21. > :25:28.Take the current top team - virtually all of them have been in
:25:28. > :25:37.hot water. William Hague, hotel room controversy, Theresa May, Abu
:25:37. > :25:42.Qatada, Andrew Lansley, NHS reforms. Baroness Warsi, rent issues, and
:25:43. > :25:47.most recently Jeremy Hunt with Rupert Murdoch again. Who would
:25:47. > :25:51.want to be a Cabinet minister when frankly it is more likely to end in
:25:51. > :25:57.tears? We thought we would ask someone who knows better than most.
:25:57. > :26:02.Every minister goes into the thinking I will be the one who
:26:02. > :26:06.isn't the person who runs into either personal or political
:26:06. > :26:11.problems. I don't think you could step into it unless you hoped that
:26:11. > :26:16.would be the case, but for very many people you become the minister
:26:16. > :26:20.in trouble, the minister who you can see in your colleagues' eyes
:26:20. > :26:25.they are sympathetic but thank goodness it is you, not me. Some
:26:25. > :26:31.have already paid the ultimate political price. At the last two
:26:31. > :26:37.days have been the longest and toughest of my life. David Laws,
:26:37. > :26:42.Chief Secretary to the Treasury at one minute, out of the Treasury the
:26:42. > :26:48.next. Liam Fox, the former Defence Secretary, was busted down to
:26:48. > :26:58.backbencher over his links to a lobbyist. Chris Huhne in the fast
:26:58. > :27:03.
:27:03. > :27:10.lane as Energy Secretary, forced to resign over problems with speeding
:27:10. > :27:13.offence fraud. Even though you are under immense pressure, the reason
:27:13. > :27:17.why you're doing this job is because you think you can make a
:27:17. > :27:22.difference. You think this is the thing that your political values
:27:22. > :27:27.have brought you to. It is the peak of your political career, the time
:27:27. > :27:31.of which you think actually there is something I can do to put into
:27:31. > :27:35.operation the things I care about. You never think you have achieved
:27:35. > :27:39.what you want to achieve when it is time to leave that. The next time
:27:39. > :27:45.you see a member of the Cabinet in bother, don't feel too sorry for
:27:45. > :27:52.them because the truth is most of them wouldn't miss it for the world.
:27:52. > :27:57.Let's find out if that is true with Lord Norman Fowler. Let's go back
:27:57. > :28:04.in time - how did the pressures of Cabinet life affect your family
:28:04. > :28:07.life? You have less time than you would otherwise have, but in the
:28:07. > :28:14.main Cabinet life was very good because you could put into effect
:28:14. > :28:17.the ideas that you had. I started doing transport, I had done it in
:28:17. > :28:23.the Shadow Cabinet fully three years. I put the plans I had into
:28:23. > :28:27.effect, that was brilliant. The last thing I did was to abolish the
:28:27. > :28:32.Dock Labour Scheme, which people had been flapping about four years.
:28:32. > :28:36.Jacqui Smith is right. Obviously there are things you feel you could
:28:36. > :28:41.have done, but on the other hand you can and do have the opportunity
:28:41. > :28:47.of doing so much. When you resigned, did you say it was to spend more
:28:47. > :28:53.time with your family as well, that it was an opportunity? Was that a
:28:53. > :28:58.euphemism, or was that what you really meant? No, it wasn't a
:28:58. > :29:03.euphemism, but I did say other things as well. I have done 11
:29:03. > :29:10.years in government... You had had enough? I wanted to move on, if I
:29:10. > :29:16.could put it that way. I had two a small children, both of whom were
:29:16. > :29:21.born when I was in the Cabinet, and I thought I would miss out on that,
:29:21. > :29:26.but I don't want to say I was a crusader on the family or anything
:29:26. > :29:31.like that. There does, time when you have done 11 years of Cabinet
:29:31. > :29:35.you feel that is enough. What about scrutiny? Do you think there is
:29:35. > :29:41.more scrutiny for this generation of politicians than when you were
:29:41. > :29:45.in the Cabinet? That is probably right. I think the worst thing
:29:46. > :29:51.about the Cabinet and the thing which took most time, and the thing
:29:51. > :29:56.which caused most aggravation was not the outside scrutiny. The thing
:29:56. > :30:01.that caused the most problems were the public spending rows each year
:30:01. > :30:06.when you were attacked from the Treasury, and you would say but you
:30:06. > :30:13.can't propose that, that was in our manifesto, we were against that.
:30:13. > :30:22.What about people hounded out of office? Is that worse now? We
:30:22. > :30:28.listed some politicians who had to resign. He it -- it might be worse.
:30:28. > :30:32.In Margaret Thatcher's time, almost each year you had regular
:30:32. > :30:37.reshuffles and cabinet ministers were sometimes simply left out
:30:37. > :30:42.there with all kinds of predictions being made about the fact they
:30:42. > :30:51.would be sacked. If you are too sensitive on this, it is a rough
:30:51. > :30:59.Matthew, is it more a case of personal issues that seem to be the
:30:59. > :31:03.end of members of some of the Cabinet rather than policy issues?
:31:03. > :31:07.It tends to be personal issues because of the Prime Minister sat
:31:07. > :31:13.somebody for personal reasons, it falls back on the Prime Minister
:31:13. > :31:17.because why have you supported them? Tomorrow apparently we are
:31:17. > :31:22.going to go to a reform package for the Civil Service and I bet, like
:31:22. > :31:27.all previous reform packages, it will not grasp the problem of the
:31:27. > :31:30.interface between politicians and civil servants. Imagine if they
:31:30. > :31:34.want and Corporation are ostensibly run by a committee of 30 people,
:31:34. > :31:38.each person has a job that requires them to work 16 hours a day, many
:31:38. > :31:42.of them do not trust the organisations that work for them,
:31:42. > :31:52.then you have junior ministers who have no role and just go around
:31:52. > :31:56.
:31:56. > :32:00.causing trouble? That is a very I was part of the Thatcher
:32:00. > :32:04.government, I was there from the beginning almost to the end. We
:32:04. > :32:08.were written down as being the most radical governments since the war
:32:08. > :32:14.in domestic policy. I don't think we have those problems. Is that
:32:14. > :32:19.because you ignore the civil service? No, that is the point. We
:32:19. > :32:26.got the civil service to work with us, we said this is the policy and
:32:26. > :32:30.they put it into practice. It was a perfectly good partnership. This
:32:30. > :32:36.government has a lot of briefing at the moment saying they do not feel
:32:36. > :32:41.the civil services working for them. They also did not have to new --
:32:41. > :32:45.deal the 24 hour news. I think it was more possible in your time to
:32:46. > :32:49.say I will address that in a couple of weeks. Now you have to respond
:32:49. > :32:55.to things immediately. If you have not close an issue within hours to
:32:55. > :32:58.have Number Ten on the phone saying you have to get out there. Can you
:32:58. > :33:08.think of a cabinet member handed out who should not have been?
:33:08. > :33:11.
:33:11. > :33:15.It is clear to me Peter Mandelson resigned for a trivial reason. It
:33:15. > :33:22.was to do with the image he created for himself which made him somebody
:33:22. > :33:28.people wanted to have a go at. think your point about the 24 hour
:33:28. > :33:33.news cycle is a commentary on Number Ten. I was on a phone-in the
:33:33. > :33:40.other day and a special adviser rang up and said we need to have a
:33:41. > :33:44.new story every four hours. That is crazy. I agree. A everyone needs to
:33:44. > :33:50.relax. We should go back to a former age about announcing
:33:50. > :33:55.policies and the rest. You said you managed to achieve a lot in the
:33:55. > :34:05.Cabinet. Unless you are in the Cabinet is it really worth being a
:34:05. > :34:08.junior minister? Only if you were genuinely interested in the area
:34:08. > :34:12.you're working in. When I worked for Tony Blair I proposed that
:34:12. > :34:17.junior ministers were asked to make a change happen. You get appointed
:34:17. > :34:20.for a couple of years to oversee a particular process. At the moment
:34:20. > :34:26.you are only junior minister because you want to be a cabinet
:34:26. > :34:29.minister. But if you are doing what I was doing, health and social
:34:29. > :34:34.security, it is crucial your ministers of state are strong
:34:34. > :34:44.people. I recruited Ken Clarke, Tony Newton and John Major. With
:34:44. > :34:53.that sort of support I had an easy life. I rested on them. Tips for
:34:54. > :34:58.anyone joining the Cabinet after a reshuffle? No. Funnily enough. One
:34:58. > :35:03.tip. I think you might bring a Malcolm Rifkind back into it. I
:35:03. > :35:07.don't know if he wants to but he is such an intelligent, good
:35:07. > :35:17.communicator, I think he is wasted on the backbenches. You heard it
:35:17. > :35:18.
:35:18. > :35:22.here first! Thank you both. Coalition shinanigans have been
:35:22. > :35:24.keeping the Westminster hacks busy of late. And on College Green we
:35:24. > :35:30.have our own little coalition. Anushka Asthana from the Times and
:35:30. > :35:34.James Kirkup from the Telegraph. Can we start with the Leveson
:35:34. > :35:40.Inquiry, do you think the decision by the Liberal-Democrats took
:35:40. > :35:44.abstain was a key moment? It is an ongoing process where both party
:35:44. > :35:48.leaderships are trying hard to engage in party management. They
:35:48. > :35:53.are looking for ways of sending signals to the backbenches and
:35:53. > :35:59.party membership we are still a distinct party, pushing our own
:35:59. > :36:04.agenda. Nick Clegg is trying to push that independence on Murdoch
:36:04. > :36:08.based issues and that the same time we are seeing Conservative
:36:08. > :36:18.ministers pushing a Conservative agenda on welfare, Trident, issues
:36:18. > :36:22.like that. Are Tory MPs still angry about it or was it a flash-in-the-
:36:22. > :36:30.pan? Of course they are angry but it is just the latest reason to be
:36:31. > :36:35.angry. Most MPs have an ongoing frustration at the fact they are in
:36:35. > :36:41.coalition. That anger express itself in various ways depending on
:36:41. > :36:45.what is in the headlines. At the moment it is Leveson. When Lords
:36:45. > :36:51.reform comes back it will be Lords reform. There is always something.
:36:51. > :36:56.It traces back to the original sin, David Cameron's failure to win the
:36:56. > :37:03.Tory majority in 2010. I Liberal- Democrat MPs worried about revenge?
:37:03. > :37:08.We have heard a number of times that they could use Lords reform as
:37:08. > :37:11.the stick to be the Lib Dems with? I think is sues the Tories to see
:37:11. > :37:14.this as treachery because it gives them an excuse to go on things like
:37:14. > :37:24.Lords reform. Lib Dems are worried about that because it is important
:37:24. > :37:28.
:37:28. > :37:31.to them to get the Lords reform February. -- through. None the Tory
:37:31. > :37:36.said we never did this to Vince Cable but the response was actually
:37:36. > :37:42.yes, they did. The Lib Dems view is it was fair for them to abstain. I
:37:42. > :37:47.think the Tories would uses as a chance to punish them. David
:37:47. > :37:51.Cameron is clearly attempting to push the eurozone countries towards
:37:51. > :37:58.closer integration with Britain outside that. What other Liberal-
:37:58. > :38:04.Democrats thinking about that? Lib Dems are have spoken to mainly
:38:04. > :38:11.support the idea of closer fiscal pact but they want Britain to be
:38:11. > :38:15.involved in the conversation and that is where the parties split.
:38:15. > :38:18.Whilst Cameron might be pushing for that a lot of his backbenchers
:38:18. > :38:22.think one needs to happen now is that Greece needs to default and
:38:22. > :38:26.other countries need to follow suit, which is what they will be pushing
:38:26. > :38:36.for. Do you think the eurozone crisis has masked even bigger
:38:36. > :38:38.
:38:38. > :38:43.cracks in the coalition? Without the crisis you wonder how we will
:38:43. > :38:49.be doing on the fundamental question of addressing the deficit.
:38:49. > :38:57.-- would be doing. I think the severity of the events does hide
:38:57. > :39:01.various tensions. There are some clear divisions of Tory opinion on
:39:01. > :39:09.this. George Osborne and David Cameron are pushing for the
:39:09. > :39:13.eurozone to integrate and push towards a fiscal union. There are
:39:13. > :39:23.Conservatives who regard the idea of fiscal union as being Anathema.
:39:23. > :39:23.
:39:23. > :39:30.It flies in the face of 2000 years of Western civilisation. The idea
:39:30. > :39:34.there is a unified position on be fiscal crisis is not really the
:39:34. > :39:37.case but because they are secondary to the end of the euro zone
:39:38. > :39:41.economic crisis it might be getting less attention than it would be
:39:41. > :39:46.otherwise. On a referendum issue, which seems to have reared up again
:39:46. > :39:52.because Labour has also been calling for it, maybe not now, is
:39:52. > :39:58.pressure mounting for that to come sooner rather than later? I think
:39:58. > :40:04.there are voices in all parties who want to see a promise for a
:40:04. > :40:11.referendum. What with the question be and is now the right time for a
:40:11. > :40:15.question? And in out referendum would be dangerous because
:40:15. > :40:18.Eurosceptics might get the answer they do not want and where does
:40:18. > :40:23.Britain go from there? I think Cameron will want to resist any
:40:23. > :40:29.temptation to do that on the table right now. I would expect us to be
:40:29. > :40:35.seen something like an offer for a referendum in Tory manifesto, maybe
:40:36. > :40:38.then Labour manifesto as well. joined now for the rest of the show
:40:39. > :40:41.by three peers of the realm. Labour's leader in the Lords, Jan
:40:41. > :40:46.Royall, Conservative Peer, Patience Wheatcroft and for the Liberal
:40:46. > :40:48.Democrats Tim Clement Jones. Last week Liberal Democrat MPs
:40:48. > :40:55.infuriated some of their Conservative partners by refusing
:40:55. > :40:57.to back Jeremy Hunt in a House of Commons vote. The Lib Dems
:40:57. > :41:03.abstained on a Labour motion calling for the embattled Culture
:41:03. > :41:06.Secretary to be investigated over breaches of the ministerial code.
:41:06. > :41:08.The good ship Coalition has sailed into choppy waters after the Lib
:41:08. > :41:10.Dems abstained last week. Conservative ministers are fighting
:41:10. > :41:13.back, sailing under Tory colours, apparently without much thought for
:41:13. > :41:19.what their Lib Dem partners think. The Home Secretary Theresa May has
:41:19. > :41:21.been getting tough on immigration and human rights laws. Oliver
:41:21. > :41:31.Letwin has suggested that subsidies for onshore wind-power will be
:41:31. > :41:32.
:41:32. > :41:35.stopped despite strong Lib Dem support for green energy. And
:41:35. > :41:38.Defence Secretary Philip Hammond has announced a �1 billion contract
:41:38. > :41:40.for the next generation of nuclear powered submarines. They would be
:41:40. > :41:43.needed if the Government decided to go ahead with a like-for-like
:41:43. > :41:46.replacement for Trident, something the Lib Dems oppose. With a further
:41:46. > :41:49.row looming over House of Lords reform David Cameron and Nick Clegg
:41:49. > :41:53.could be looking for the coalition life jackets. Have we got to that
:41:53. > :41:59.stage yet? Not yet. The government has sensible policies it wants to
:41:59. > :42:02.push through. They will not all be what the Lib Dems would like to see
:42:02. > :42:07.but coalition is about give-and- take. How would you characterise
:42:07. > :42:11.the state of the coalition at the moment? I think it is never easy
:42:11. > :42:17.and certainly not proving to be easy but it is still there and I
:42:17. > :42:24.think it will survive. The you understand why the Lib Dems were
:42:24. > :42:33.not right to support Jeremy Hunt on the Labour motion? Not really.
:42:33. > :42:37.do you think they decided to make that decision? I don't understand
:42:37. > :42:41.why. I think it was a strange thing to do and played into labour's
:42:41. > :42:45.hands. I thought the most appalling thing about the episode was the
:42:45. > :42:49.speaker allowing Jeremy Hunt to be termed a liar in a debate in the
:42:49. > :42:54.House of Commons. That really was atrocious. There was controversy
:42:54. > :42:57.over that which we debated at the time. Justify that decision for the
:42:57. > :43:02.Lib Dems to abstain. It was not a matter of collective Cabinet
:43:02. > :43:07.responsibility, that was made clear. This was a decision not to refer by
:43:07. > :43:11.the Prime Minister to Alex Allan which Nick Clegg played no part in.
:43:11. > :43:17.So it was perfectly proper for us to take a different view as a party,
:43:17. > :43:20.which we did. But what we did not want to do was to vote with the
:43:20. > :43:27.Labour Party in the division because we are members of the
:43:27. > :43:31.coalition and at least we do it to our colleagues not to see the
:43:31. > :43:36.ousting of a minister. But we wanted to make it clear we felt the
:43:36. > :43:40.Prime Minister should have referred to a special adviser. But you
:43:40. > :43:43.agreed on principle with what the Labour motion stated, that you did
:43:43. > :43:47.not agree David Cameron should have made the decision not to refer it
:43:47. > :43:52.to Sir Alex Allan so by rights he should have supported it? That is
:43:52. > :44:01.the nature of coalition, there are some cases were you do not go the
:44:01. > :44:06.whole hog. -- wear. Abstention is a lily-livered way out. I think it is
:44:06. > :44:12.a posturing by the Lib Dems that we see a lot in the House of Lords. If
:44:12. > :44:18.the Lib Dems really believed they should have voted, they should have
:44:18. > :44:23.made a statement against Jeremy party. I absolutely do not agree.
:44:23. > :44:29.In coalition there are all kinds of compromises you need to make, even
:44:29. > :44:37.within political parties. To jump up and down, cry, lack of principle,
:44:37. > :44:42.traitor, whatever on every occasion that the parties do something
:44:42. > :44:46.different is just impractical and does not represent reality. Do you
:44:46. > :44:52.think relations are better in the House of Lords than they seem to be
:44:52. > :44:56.in the Commons? I think that is right. There are strains sometimes.
:44:56. > :44:59.Over the health will there were strains, over things are welfare
:45:00. > :45:05.reform there were strings. But I do we have ways of dealing with them
:45:05. > :45:08.because the personal relationships across the parties are good I would
:45:09. > :45:18.say. We're probably capable of separating out the politics from
:45:18. > :45:23.the personalities rather better Do you think the announcement on
:45:23. > :45:27.submarines does prejudge the position on nuclear weapons? No, I
:45:28. > :45:32.think it has been made clear that the investment made in the building
:45:33. > :45:36.in Derby will be used for whatever happens. The money will not be
:45:36. > :45:43.wasted, but we do have to start planning now walk in case the
:45:43. > :45:52.decision is made to go ahead with Trident. Can you see why it would
:45:52. > :45:58.be viewed as a decision made by staff? In a way, this decision has
:45:58. > :46:03.been made. No, because the money would not be wasted. I have no
:46:03. > :46:08.doubt there will be people who interpret it that way but I see it
:46:08. > :46:14.as a sensible decision on planning. Are you worried about this decision
:46:14. > :46:19.being made before 2016 as was agreed? Now, the very fact that
:46:19. > :46:25.Nick Harvey is the minister who has been explaining the decision makes
:46:25. > :46:30.it very clear. He has made it clear what is a programme over 11 years
:46:30. > :46:35.of expenditure, that half the expenditure will be going to Derby
:46:35. > :46:40.facilities. I don't think it will cause a great strain. Do you think
:46:40. > :46:45.the Tories are trying to flex their muscles on immigration - too hard
:46:45. > :46:49.line for the Liberal Democrats? amount of debate and discussion
:46:49. > :46:56.between government departments is enormous. If you look at the
:46:56. > :47:00.interest of the business department, the Treasury, DCMS as opposed to
:47:00. > :47:03.the Home Office, there is a debate going on about the way in
:47:03. > :47:07.particular that students are treated. The debate has been very
:47:07. > :47:13.clear, that it makes Britain look as if it is closed for business if
:47:13. > :47:16.you come down to hard on immigrants who would like to come to the
:47:16. > :47:21.country and contribute something. have many Conservative colleagues
:47:21. > :47:25.who are just as concerned as I am about this punitive approach, and
:47:25. > :47:30.this approach to students treating them as permanent migrants. It's as
:47:30. > :47:37.having a dreadful effect on our universities, which are now finding
:47:37. > :47:41.it difficult to attract students from overseas. How else do you
:47:41. > :47:46.bring the numbers down? There is a commitment from all parties to
:47:46. > :47:51.bring the numbers down. Why are they gunning for students, as it
:47:51. > :47:56.were? Students are the future of our relationships with these
:47:56. > :48:01.countries as well so you have to be delicate when dealing with the
:48:01. > :48:06.policy. I think some of what Theresa May wants to do makes good
:48:06. > :48:11.sense, particularly looking at the family issue and that human rights
:48:11. > :48:16.act. On the student issue there is a degree of uniformity in the House
:48:16. > :48:22.of Lords because treating a student as a permanent migrant is obviously
:48:22. > :48:29.not a sensible thing to do, it is backfiring, and there is increasing
:48:29. > :48:34.debate in the House of Lords. Lords reform, will it happen? He
:48:34. > :48:39.depends on what they do in the House of Commons, I would suggest.
:48:39. > :48:44.I think the sensible thing would be for the Steel Bill to come in first.
:48:44. > :48:51.More delay then? They would amount to something happening, whereas the
:48:51. > :48:56.risk is that there will be more delay if we don't get this.
:48:56. > :49:01.depends what happens in the Commons. In the House of Lords, we are way
:49:01. > :49:07.down the track at the moment. There may be a referendum inserted, and
:49:07. > :49:11.so on and so forth, so who knows? It is premature to write off the
:49:11. > :49:17.House of Lords reform. Let's not do that.
:49:17. > :49:20.We are all doomed, that is according to Prince Charles. He has
:49:20. > :49:30.issued end ominous warning ahead of the global conference on
:49:30. > :49:35.sustainability. On a video address on the Royal Channel, he was one in
:49:35. > :49:39.about action on climate change. Like a sleepwalker, we seem unable
:49:39. > :49:45.to wake up to the fact that so many of the catastrophic consequences of
:49:45. > :49:50.carrying on as business-as-usual are bearing down on us faster than
:49:50. > :49:54.we think, already dragging millions more people into poverty and
:49:54. > :50:01.dangerously weakening global food, water, and energy security for the
:50:01. > :50:07.future. Do you agree with him? think we are not doing in this
:50:07. > :50:12.country towards climate change and decisions by this Conservative-led
:50:12. > :50:16.coalition about junking grants for wind power and solar power
:50:16. > :50:21.demonstrates this is not the most green government ever. She should
:50:21. > :50:29.he be saying this sort of thing? he needs a role model, and she has
:50:29. > :50:39.the -- he has the perfect one in his mother, and she would not be
:50:39. > :50:39.
:50:39. > :50:48.saying this, but he has kept quiet recently so the board -- occasional
:50:48. > :50:53.announcement should be allowed. his track record in this area, and
:50:53. > :50:56.in areas of social responsibility, he has been fantastic. The heir to
:50:56. > :51:00.the throne is entitled to be saying these things and I might dispute
:51:00. > :51:04.that if I didn't agree with everything he said in this area but
:51:04. > :51:11.he has been remarkably sound on the environment throughout the whole of
:51:11. > :51:16.his adult court basically. Do you agree with that? Does anyone listen
:51:16. > :51:21.to him? I hope some people listen to him because, as my colleagues
:51:21. > :51:30.have said, he has done a fantastic job, especially with the Prince's
:51:30. > :51:35.be listened to, but the decision makers must come to their
:51:35. > :51:40.conclusions on the basis of evidence. If he becomes a king,
:51:40. > :51:45.would he have to follow his mother's example and be quiet?
:51:45. > :51:51.Things are evolving all the time. I think he would find it difficult to
:51:51. > :51:55.be as quiet as his mother has been, but perhaps there is a compromise.
:51:55. > :52:00.But should he? The Queen is the model we now have, and perhaps he
:52:00. > :52:04.will sadly have to stop writing those letters, and he will have to
:52:04. > :52:08.not make those sorts of public announcements because you can't be
:52:08. > :52:15.entering into the political arena as the sovereign. It is very
:52:15. > :52:19.different thing. But then we would expect Prince William to take his
:52:19. > :52:24.mantle and takeover the charities that Prince Charles foundered.
:52:24. > :52:28.Is it not diplomatic to continually mispronounce foreign leaders'
:52:28. > :52:38.names? It appears etiquette is slipping at the Foreign Office,
:52:38. > :52:39.
:52:39. > :52:42.where ministers don't have the experience they used to. These are
:52:42. > :52:47.challenging demands unfair obviously creating great strains
:52:47. > :52:54.and tensions in the countries affected, but my noble friend has
:52:55. > :53:01.asked me to comment on not only Francois Hollande's which put the
:53:01. > :53:10.German wish to stick rigidly to certain austere budget disciplines.
:53:10. > :53:15.Somewhere between these two, and in the talks, there will emerge a
:53:15. > :53:21.sensible balance. We hope there will and we will contribute to
:53:21. > :53:26.anything that would achieve that. Would the noble lord the Minister
:53:26. > :53:34.accept a mild rebuke from me on this matter of the mispronunciation
:53:34. > :53:38.of the names? I declare any interest. It seems a failing of
:53:38. > :53:43.successive governments to get the names of French President's
:53:43. > :53:51.properly pronounced. The previous President was inevitably and almost
:53:51. > :53:57.always referred to as Mr Sarkozy as that it was rhyming with tea cosy,
:53:57. > :54:07.and President Francois Hollande should be pronounced like this. I
:54:07. > :54:12.totally accept these extremely wise rebukes from the noble Lord about
:54:12. > :54:19.my French pronunciation. I will practise a lot more. The Radio 4
:54:19. > :54:23.news reader is with us. Maybe you need to train some of those Peers
:54:23. > :54:29.in terms of their pronunciation? will be passing my card around,
:54:29. > :54:35.leaving them on the benches. It is quite hard to get names right, what
:54:35. > :54:40.do you think? It is important. Whether they are presidents,
:54:40. > :54:47.murderers, victims, whoever they are get their name right. He would
:54:47. > :54:52.want your name right, wouldn't you? Yes, I have been used to that over
:54:52. > :54:59.the years. How difficult do you think the French President names
:54:59. > :55:09.are? Not that difficult. It is Francois
:55:09. > :55:25.
:55:25. > :55:32.Hollande, with "on" in the surname. With Nicolas Sarkozy, did they say
:55:32. > :55:36.the emphasis on the last syllable? As a newsreader, we are guided by
:55:36. > :55:40.the pronunciation Unit at the BBC and we can get into some real
:55:40. > :55:50.arguments with correspondents who have their way of saying it, but
:55:50. > :55:52.
:55:52. > :56:01.his name is Sarkozy. Not tea cosy. We have a little quiz for you, I'm
:56:01. > :56:09.sure you'll be delighted. They are going to come up in just a moment.
:56:09. > :56:16.How do you pronounce these? You get the easy one, the President of Iran.
:56:16. > :56:26.Mahmud Ahmadinejad. People think with Arabic names you need phlegm
:56:26. > :56:26.
:56:26. > :56:30.to deliver them, but this one you are aiming for a sighing sound.
:56:30. > :56:35.This one is quite difficult. We This one is quite difficult. We
:56:35. > :56:42.will give you the chance, it is the President of the Ivory Coast. How
:56:42. > :56:51.do you pronounce that? I think that is a pretty good
:56:51. > :57:00.attempts. It is spelt incorrectly! Let's gloss over that. It is mostly
:57:00. > :57:10.a question of emphasis on that one. The life raft is at the end of it.
:57:10. > :57:11.
:57:11. > :57:20.We will have to have you on regularly when these leaders change.
:57:20. > :57:25.yours is the prime minister of Turkey. I'll always just say the
:57:25. > :57:35.Prime Minister of Turkey, if I have to do. You have fallen, I'm afraid,
:57:35. > :57:43.
:57:43. > :57:50.but what else would you say when looking at that. It is Re-jip. That
:57:50. > :57:56.is the sort of thing we laugh at. Everybody messes that one up the
:57:56. > :58:05.first time. I leave this one open to any of you, it is the prime
:58:05. > :58:15.minister of Sri Lanka. Have always felt that one right? Probably!
:58:15. > :58:24.
:58:24. > :58:28.wants to have a go. I am saying it as it looks. Whatever the last one
:58:28. > :58:38.was. I did have to write this one down because it is very difficult.
:58:38. > :58:45.Again, it is the emphasis. Marvellous. Thank you took all of