:00:46. > :00:51.Afternoon, folks, welcome back to the Daily Politics. After the
:00:51. > :00:56.stunning success of the Olympics it is back to reality as politics
:00:56. > :01:00.returns to business as usual. Top of the agenda, how to get the
:01:00. > :01:05.economy growing again. Chancellor George Osborne is promising
:01:05. > :01:08.billions of Government guarantees for infrastructure. Tory
:01:08. > :01:12.backbenchers want tax cuts, spending cuts and smaller
:01:12. > :01:19.Government. David Cameron plots his first major
:01:19. > :01:24.reshuffle of Government. Who is on the up and who is up for the chop?
:01:24. > :01:29.The current Education Secretary, Michael Gove, says his new policy
:01:29. > :01:35.on free schools in England is a success. Over 50 new schools open
:01:35. > :01:40.this week. Labour disagrees. Remember this? We will bring me up
:01:40. > :01:45.to speak with every political twist and turn of the summer. You will
:01:45. > :01:49.not have missed anything. Do not tell us we do not spoil your.
:01:49. > :01:55.Is that the man who thinks he can be the prime minister? Yes, in that
:01:55. > :02:01.rather elegant position. He is just hanging around. With us for the
:02:01. > :02:04.next 30 minutes, because we could not afford them for the next two
:02:04. > :02:10.hour, two Olympian political commentators. Fraser Nelson, editor
:02:10. > :02:13.of the Spectator and Polly Toynbee, columnist at the Guardian.
:02:13. > :02:18.After a summer of marvellous Olympic high is at Westminster gets
:02:18. > :02:25.back to business today. Parliament has returned to the reality of what
:02:25. > :02:28.they left before they went away, a flatlining economy. Chancellor
:02:28. > :02:34.George Osborne it used a television interview yesterday to set out
:02:34. > :02:40.plans of another goal, just starting UK plc. In the next couple
:02:40. > :02:43.of weeks you will see us introduced in Parliament legislation to speed
:02:43. > :02:48.up the processes that mean we can build roads more quickly that it
:02:48. > :02:52.takes to fight a World War. It means we can guarantee
:02:52. > :02:57.infrastructure projects. We will have a specific piece of
:02:57. > :02:59.legislation published next week so that the Government can use the low
:02:59. > :03:03.interest to underwrite infrastructure projects including
:03:03. > :03:06.housing. We are doing all these things to use the good name the
:03:07. > :03:12.Government has built up internationally, the low interest
:03:12. > :03:17.rates we have got to fund our banks to get the economy moving.
:03:17. > :03:23.Chancellor on the Andrew Marr Show yesterday from Broadcasting House.
:03:23. > :03:28.Fraser Nelson, the prime minister says on the Mail on Sunday, they do
:03:28. > :03:33.an article every week now, he is more determined than ever to cut
:03:33. > :03:41.through the desert that holds this country back. Can you remind me who
:03:41. > :03:46.has been Prime Minister by the past two years? He is going to have the
:03:46. > :03:51.Super planning restrictions, Middle England is not going to like it,
:03:51. > :03:55.but he lacks a fight that suits him. The Telegraph is going to oppose it.
:03:55. > :04:00.It is ideal for him, but it is difficult to work out economic glee
:04:00. > :04:03.how this is going to get the economy moving. There seems to be a
:04:03. > :04:07.strange love affair between the Government and the housebuilding
:04:07. > :04:12.industry. They seem to think the way to get the economy moving is to
:04:12. > :04:17.grant favours to the industry. But Spain and Ireland found this was
:04:17. > :04:25.not the case. When Government feels the market, disaster is not far
:04:25. > :04:31.behind. Everybody is in favour of infrastructure. But it is not
:04:31. > :04:38.necessarily the best and the quickest and even if they succeed
:04:38. > :04:46.in easing the planning rules, what Mr Barack Obama said were shovelled
:04:46. > :04:51.moving jobs, there are not many. you look at building schools for
:04:51. > :04:55.the future, there were lots of projects that could be kick-started.
:04:55. > :05:01.But they are cancelled and great deal of social housing. The
:05:01. > :05:06.developers themselves are sitting on 300,000 plots with planning
:05:06. > :05:10.permission ready to go. They will not go because the demand is not
:05:10. > :05:14.there. If I was the Government I would say, we will withdraw
:05:14. > :05:18.planning permission unless you start building. There are lots of
:05:18. > :05:24.ways the Government can strong arm the industry instead of assuming
:05:24. > :05:28.they will do it for them. The housing market is complicated. You
:05:28. > :05:33.want house prices to come down, on the other hand you need it to be
:05:33. > :05:37.profitable to build and it is a difficult balance. Polly is saying
:05:37. > :05:40.this attempt to jump-start the British economy will involve the
:05:40. > :05:45.Government saying, we are going to restore all the programmes be
:05:45. > :05:49.cancelled a couple of years ago. How does that work? For a start
:05:49. > :05:53.they could not afford it and even it they could, right now the
:05:53. > :05:57.British economy has got this habit of when you go through a
:05:57. > :06:02.construction boom EU import workers rather than shortening the British
:06:02. > :06:06.dole queues. The majority of jobs created since the Government came
:06:06. > :06:11.to power have gone to foreign-born workers. What they should be doing
:06:11. > :06:15.is cutting the taxes of the low- paid and have an incentive to leave
:06:15. > :06:20.benefits and get back to work. If you borrow lots of money and higher
:06:20. > :06:25.lots of people it is a very blunt instrument. If they went down this
:06:25. > :06:29.road, when would we see growth return? You say these things are
:06:29. > :06:35.ready to be done quite quickly. Even quickly in these circumstances
:06:35. > :06:38.takes a while and then that money... Not many people would be employed.
:06:38. > :06:44.The money then has to percolate through the economy from their
:06:44. > :06:51.wages. Of course it is not the only thing you should do. You should
:06:51. > :06:57.stop a lot of the cuts now. We have only had 12% of the cuts announced,
:06:57. > :07:02.88% are still to come. A huge hit is going to come in the next year
:07:02. > :07:08.when unemployment will rise steeply next year. Stop doing that, stop
:07:08. > :07:12.digging when you are in a hole and making it worse. How much bigger?
:07:12. > :07:17.Quite a bit bigger, it has never been cheaper for the Government to
:07:17. > :07:23.borrow. The size of the deficit is no constraint on the Government at
:07:23. > :07:28.all? Not no constraint, but you could do a lot more. People like
:07:28. > :07:32.the IMF are now saying austerity is making matters worse. A bit of
:07:32. > :07:38.stimulus and getting growth that might be worth the price of
:07:38. > :07:43.borrowing more for now. Government is borrowing �250
:07:43. > :07:48.million a day. They are borrowing to pay for the unemployed. It is
:07:48. > :07:53.not working. I do not think if they were borrowing 280 million that
:07:54. > :07:58.would make much of a difference. What George Osborne is announcing
:07:58. > :08:03.now about Government guarantees for more building and projects, none of
:08:03. > :08:08.that will be real. If it were real, it would have to go on to the
:08:08. > :08:13.borrowing books and it is not going to. It would be Enron style
:08:13. > :08:18.accounting. These guarantees will not be worth the paper they are not
:08:19. > :08:28.yet written on. I were happy think about that. Either they are genuine
:08:29. > :08:29.
:08:29. > :08:34.guarantees or they are not and I think they are not. It is sub-prime
:08:34. > :08:38.business. A new term means it must be time for a quiz for Fraser and
:08:39. > :08:43.Polly. The question for today is all about Margaret Thatcher's
:08:43. > :08:48.dresses, moving away from the economy, some of which are up for
:08:48. > :08:51.auction at Christie's. Which of these does not belong to Margaret
:08:51. > :08:58.Thatcher. There is one little sartorial number that does not
:08:58. > :09:01.quite fit her style. We will give you a bit of time to get your heads
:09:01. > :09:06.around that halfway through the show.
:09:06. > :09:11.Fraser said Margaret Thatcher's dresses are his specialist subject.
:09:11. > :09:15.I think we will move on. Apart from sorting out the economy,
:09:15. > :09:20.what else have the political leaders got to look forward to as
:09:20. > :09:23.the nights draw in? We are expecting a reshuffle quite soon,
:09:23. > :09:30.leadership plots are growing by the day and there is always personality
:09:30. > :09:35.clashes which add to the gaiety of the nation. It is business as usual.
:09:35. > :09:39.It is the start of a new term and for the party leaders memories of
:09:39. > :09:43.summer holiday fun are already fading fast. David Cameron is back
:09:43. > :09:48.in the classroom and needs to assert his authority with a
:09:48. > :09:53.decisive reshuffle. It is going to be difficult if big figures like
:09:53. > :09:57.George Osborne, William Hague and Theresa May stay put. Lib Dems at
:09:57. > :10:02.the Cabinet table are going nowhere. He needs to answer criticism from
:10:03. > :10:07.the right of his party after a summer of nasty name-calling. One
:10:07. > :10:12.backbencher suggested he was a Mars, another a Lib Dem chambermaid. Many
:10:12. > :10:19.are urging him to pursue a distinctive Conservative pro-growth
:10:19. > :10:23.qualities. One MP quest and Nick Clegg's leadership and one said he
:10:23. > :10:27.was a cork bobbing on the waves with no strategic vision. He will
:10:27. > :10:30.be under pressure to distance the Lib Dems from the Conservatives at
:10:30. > :10:35.the party conference. The suggestion his latest wealth tax
:10:35. > :10:39.idea was written by young kids in Downing Street may not help. Ed
:10:39. > :10:44.Miliband should have less difficulty maintaining order. His
:10:44. > :10:49.MPs know they have a ten-point lead in the polls. But this summer has
:10:49. > :10:53.been punctuated by rumours of staff and hostility by shadowed
:10:53. > :10:57.Chancellor Ed Balls leaving some to wonder if a feud to rival Tony
:10:58. > :11:02.Blair and Gordon Brown could be brewing. James Landale is also back
:11:02. > :11:07.from his holidays with a brand-new uniform and a pencil case and joins
:11:07. > :11:13.us now. How dramatic and this reshuffle be if nobody is wanting
:11:13. > :11:17.to buy it? Some people will resist, that always happens during a
:11:17. > :11:22.reshuffle. This will be a test of the prime minister's authority, man
:11:22. > :11:27.or mouse to use a phrase which is being invoked by one Conservative
:11:27. > :11:33.MP. The interesting test one not just be has the Prime Minister
:11:33. > :11:40.asserted authority? But has he signalled any change of policy?
:11:40. > :11:45.What matters is does he changed policy? Does he poured example
:11:45. > :11:48.signal a change on policy towards Heathrow Mr Garbutt does he take
:11:48. > :11:53.Ken Clarke out of justice? The other key test will be party
:11:53. > :11:59.management. Does he do it well and does he wield the axe in a way that
:12:00. > :12:04.minimises the number of unhappy bunnies? It could pose a lot of
:12:04. > :12:10.problems by David Cameron as he runs up with the election. We are
:12:10. > :12:16.expecting that in the next 36 hours. What about Nick Clegg? Name-calling
:12:16. > :12:20.from some in his party as well? How vulnerable is he? If you talk to
:12:20. > :12:26.some people they say it is amazing it has taken this long for people
:12:26. > :12:30.on the fringes to call for his head. For the first time you have MPs and
:12:30. > :12:34.peers saying it openly and in public and On the Record that there
:12:34. > :12:39.should be a change of leadership. People around Nick Clegg say they
:12:39. > :12:44.are not worried, but it shows that he is under increasing pressure as
:12:44. > :12:48.he makes policy choices in the run up to the next election. He is now
:12:48. > :12:54.hemmed in not just by the fact he is in the coalition, but he is
:12:54. > :13:00.under increasing pressure from his own party to differentiate himself
:13:00. > :13:04.from the Conservative Party and that can have an impact on policy.
:13:04. > :13:08.The sun keeps shining and it is a beautiful day in London today.
:13:08. > :13:13.Nothing gets as more excited than a Cabinet reshuffle and we talk about
:13:13. > :13:17.it endlessly although we know nothing at all. Let me put this to
:13:17. > :13:21.you, given that the major positions are not going to change what this
:13:21. > :13:28.will amount to is a bunch of people that no-one has heard of getting
:13:28. > :13:32.the sack to be replaced by a bunch of people no-one has ever heard of.
:13:32. > :13:37.The night of the very short knives. It will make very little difference.
:13:37. > :13:41.I do not think Cabinet reshuffles be much anyway even with big jobs.
:13:41. > :13:46.Their only one that matters is Osborne. It all depends on the
:13:46. > :13:51.state of the economy. If the economy continues to crash in the
:13:51. > :13:55.way it has now, they have had it. The only interesting bit of news
:13:55. > :14:01.would be moving George Osborne, signalling there was a genuine, if
:14:01. > :14:07.you change in direction. No chance of that. There is no alternative,
:14:07. > :14:11.back to Mrs Thatcher. Why has there been no chance of Mr Osborne been
:14:11. > :14:16.removed? Because to use your tonsillar is a major admission of
:14:16. > :14:20.defeat for a British Government. It would send a very dangers message
:14:20. > :14:24.around the world that Britain is in panic when it comes to reducing the
:14:24. > :14:29.deficit. What would you gain from this? There is no suggestion
:14:29. > :14:33.William Hague has got some fantastic plan for growth. To take
:14:33. > :14:36.a drastic step like this you need to have a pretty good alternative
:14:36. > :14:40.and right now there is no suggestion there is anybody out
:14:40. > :14:47.there who could do a better job. Well he had the guts in a
:14:47. > :14:51.Government short of women and of non-white people, will he have the
:14:51. > :14:56.guts to sack the party chairwoman? That is a tricky one for him. She
:14:56. > :15:01.was quoted the other day saying she is not white and she is a woman and
:15:01. > :15:04.I think I fit the bill. Those are not credentials if you want to lead
:15:04. > :15:08.the Conservative Party. She should know better than anybody else.
:15:08. > :15:13.Again, I do not see how a new chairman would radically improve
:15:13. > :15:17.the prospects for the Government. It is not about the people, it is
:15:17. > :15:23.about the policies and the perception they are not working.
:15:23. > :15:28.Will he have the guts to throw Ken Clarke to the wolves? I think he
:15:28. > :15:33.probably well, given that Ken Clarke sounds like he has been
:15:33. > :15:43.embalmed prior to burial right now. I think he would probably cause the
:15:43. > :15:44.
:15:44. > :15:49.In a sense, what has happened, rather than running the coalition,
:15:49. > :15:54.they are struggling to run after their parties. I do not think
:15:54. > :15:58.either of them I am much trouble from their parties. Inevitably,
:15:58. > :16:03.noise on the right, noise on the left for Clegg, but basically
:16:03. > :16:07.neither of them are going to be removed in a hurry. The crisis for
:16:07. > :16:10.Clegg, he has to think that this had, comes nine months before the
:16:10. > :16:15.election, when he has to decide whether he will run again, should
:16:15. > :16:20.he stand down himself, and I think he should, new leader, a bit of a
:16:20. > :16:23.honeymoon, he might save a few seats. But not now, and I do not
:16:23. > :16:26.think any of this noise is politically significant. It is
:16:26. > :16:29.interesting ideologically, because the Tory backbenchers do not
:16:30. > :16:34.understand they have the most right-wing government we have ever
:16:34. > :16:41.had, far more right-wing than Mrs Thatcher. It is austerity, far more
:16:41. > :16:47.austere, although they would like more, like you do. You know, this
:16:47. > :16:53.is more austerity than we have ever had. The Lib Dems do not think it
:16:53. > :16:57.is a left-wing government. No, the Lib Dems think they have no choice.
:16:57. > :17:01.Labour does not think that. Labour thinks it is a very right-wing
:17:01. > :17:07.government. Labour thinks it is an extraordinary right-wing government,
:17:07. > :17:13.and next April big cuts hit. We are in the middle of the Paralympics.
:17:13. > :17:17.All of the disability cuts hit in a big way, 90,000 mobility scooters
:17:17. > :17:23.and motor ability cows are going to be repossessed next April. I do not
:17:23. > :17:28.think most MPs know this. They do not know what is going to hit them
:17:28. > :17:31.when 80% of extra cuts is still to come. Polly says Mr Cameron and Mr
:17:32. > :17:37.Clegg are not going to be challenged, but they are worried
:17:37. > :17:39.men. Mr Cameron is clearly worried about the lack of support on the
:17:39. > :17:44.back benches, hence the kind of article he wrote in the Mail on
:17:44. > :17:49.Sunday yesterday. Mr Clegg is worried he has no favours in the
:17:49. > :17:53.bag, otherwise he would not come out with the wealth tax plan.
:17:53. > :17:57.think a lot of Tory MPs are thinking of their futures, and they
:17:57. > :18:04.are not thinking of Kamal Clegg as party leaders, and that makes it
:18:04. > :18:07.more difficult to intimidate them. -- Cameron or Clegg. Nick Clegg has
:18:08. > :18:11.got far more to worry about, because right now the Lib Dems have
:18:11. > :18:16.seen half of their support eliminated, and they reckon that
:18:16. > :18:23.the Tory embrace is toxic. When he was attacked by Lord Smith of
:18:23. > :18:31.Lifton, didn't you have to Google that was?! Matthew Oakeshott, rent-
:18:31. > :18:35.a-quote. He is a powerful player, because he is a surrogate for Vince
:18:35. > :18:40.Cable. I think he speaks for Vince Cable, they are very close.
:18:40. > :18:47.much should we make, or is it just Tory wishful thinking, of the
:18:47. > :18:51.divisions between Mr Ed and Mr Ed? I think almost nothing. It came out
:18:51. > :18:59.of nowhere, a real Auguste story that came out of a poll which
:18:59. > :19:04.showed that by 2% Ed B had slightly more favourable points, and I do
:19:04. > :19:08.not see this. I think it is true, and I have been told, that if
:19:08. > :19:12.Miliband loses the next election, there will be another leadership,
:19:12. > :19:17.Ed Balls would stand aside for Yvette Cooper, that he has given up
:19:17. > :19:21.leadership ambitions himself. So whatever this friction, which is
:19:21. > :19:26.inevitable, because most of the Labour Party wants Ed Balls to go
:19:26. > :19:36.for a bigger and bolder and austerity movement, so it is about
:19:36. > :19:37.
:19:37. > :19:40.policy, not leadership. There is fiction, and Labour has got to get
:19:40. > :19:45.a head of the game and be quite a lot bolder. Should Labour be
:19:45. > :19:50.further ahead in the polls? I think 10 points is not bad. At this time
:19:50. > :19:54.when we have a flatlining economy, coalition ripping itself apart?
:19:54. > :19:58.gives them a comfortable overall majority if there were an election.
:19:58. > :20:02.We know the midterm lead is bigger than reality. We will see what the
:20:02. > :20:06.reality is. New line assuming we are in a time like any other. I see
:20:06. > :20:10.no reason why this government should pick up. If Cameron could
:20:10. > :20:16.not win against Gordon Brown on his knees and a Labour Party exhausted,
:20:16. > :20:20.how on earth is he going to do better next time? Isn't that the
:20:20. > :20:26.key watershed moment this summer, when it really dawned on the Tories
:20:26. > :20:30.that their chances of an overall majority in 2015 was probably the
:20:30. > :20:33.least likely outcome of the election? You are right. Before the
:20:33. > :20:38.summer, the tourists thought the balance of probability was then
:20:38. > :20:42.being re-elected. After the boundary review was kibosh, your
:20:42. > :20:47.average Tory now thinks it is more likely they will lose than win.
:20:47. > :20:50.This changes the way in which they behave and plan. That shows how
:20:50. > :20:56.dumb they are, because they've brought about these backbenchers
:20:56. > :21:01.who brought about the non-happening of the boundary changes. They have
:21:01. > :21:06.just woken up to what they have done! Tory backbenchers done?
:21:06. > :21:10.I will not be repeating that, it is not just MPs who are going back to
:21:10. > :21:15.school this week. Many pupils will be returning to school and some two
:21:15. > :21:18.new schools entirely. Some 55 new free schools will be opening this
:21:18. > :21:23.month. They are state-funded but not under local authority control
:21:23. > :21:25.and they have more control over teaching and budgets. This morning
:21:25. > :21:28.Education Secretary Michael Gove has been promoting his policy. He
:21:28. > :21:33.was asked if money was being taken away from existing schools to pay
:21:33. > :21:37.for the new ones. We desperately need free schools. People need a
:21:37. > :21:40.chance to send their children to a good school where schools are not
:21:40. > :21:44.good enough. People also need additional places because the
:21:44. > :21:49.population is growing. If all we were doing was hoping free schools,
:21:49. > :21:53.we would be open to criticism, but we are doing much more. We are in
:21:53. > :21:56.the largest number of New Academy Schools that were underperforming
:21:56. > :22:02.under local authority control but now have a great new head teachers
:22:02. > :22:05.and a chance for the children in them to flourish. We are joined by
:22:05. > :22:10.Labour Shadow Education Minister Karen Buck and by Craig Whitaker, a
:22:10. > :22:12.Conservative member of the Education Select Committee. Craig
:22:12. > :22:16.Whitaker, first of all, we heard Michael Gove say that these schools
:22:16. > :22:20.are a success, but they are unproven as yet. We do not know how
:22:20. > :22:25.successful they will be. What we do know is that internationally, when
:22:25. > :22:28.you give schools autonomy away from local authority control, give them
:22:28. > :22:32.control of budgets and what they offer the local community, they
:22:32. > :22:37.work incredibly well, so that is the basis on which the free school
:22:37. > :22:40.and academies are being put in place. But what do free schools
:22:40. > :22:44.bring to state education that cannot be achieved in existing
:22:44. > :22:47.comprehensive schools if it is about raising standards? A whole
:22:47. > :22:51.heap of people and the country are incredibly frustrated with local
:22:51. > :22:54.schools. They cannot get in them, a lot are underperforming, so it is a
:22:54. > :22:58.great opportunity to get local parents and teachers involved in
:22:58. > :23:03.setting up their own school, and that is what the programme is about.
:23:03. > :23:07.Are you against, in principle, the idea of free schools? What we need
:23:07. > :23:11.to have his schools where they are needed, where they meet parental
:23:11. > :23:14.demand, which is a real issue about free schools. I think the idea of
:23:14. > :23:18.the dead hand of local authority control is a red herring and has
:23:18. > :23:22.been for many, many years. Local authorities do not manage and
:23:22. > :23:27.control everything that goes on in local schools. There is a very high
:23:27. > :23:31.degree of autonomy within schools. The Academy Schools, which was set
:23:31. > :23:35.up under the last Labour government, enjoyed a degree of freedom as well.
:23:35. > :23:40.The point with free schools, I have one in my constituency which opened
:23:40. > :23:44.last year, it is called a free school but it is actually an
:23:44. > :23:48.academy, it is fine, it is needed. There are other schools where there
:23:48. > :23:52.has not been demand and they do not meet the requirements. Andrew
:23:52. > :23:56.Adonis said that Labour should be claiming the free schools policy as
:23:57. > :24:01.its own because they are academies in all but name. Frankly, I do not
:24:01. > :24:05.care what you call an initiative. What I care about is spending the
:24:05. > :24:09.money where there is demand, and in fact interestingly, in his last
:24:09. > :24:13.year, we have seen an increase in a 3,000 children whose parents cannot
:24:13. > :24:16.find any place for them at all. The fact is we have a �900 million
:24:16. > :24:20.programme investing in free schools which is clearly not meeting demand,
:24:20. > :24:23.which is not preventing parents from being left with no school at
:24:23. > :24:27.all for their children, and which is doing nothing for the
:24:27. > :24:31.overwhelming majority of pupils. Picking up on that point, if they
:24:31. > :24:35.are in areas where there are already good comprehensive schools,
:24:35. > :24:40.then it is a waste of money, isn't it? It could be better spent
:24:40. > :24:45.improving existing schools. No, not at all, because the free school
:24:45. > :24:48.programme is part of a much bigger picture, you know. It is about
:24:48. > :24:53.academies, too. You accept they are in areas where there is no demand?
:24:53. > :24:57.They are in areas where there is a chronic shortage of places, where
:24:57. > :25:01.local authorities have not been able to create places quickly
:25:01. > :25:06.enough, and that is where the free schools generally pick up and fill
:25:06. > :25:11.a niche. You agree with Karen Buck that they could be taking money
:25:11. > :25:15.away from other schools, and that is self-defeating? Not at all.
:25:15. > :25:19.Diversity and autonomy are the key things that will drive standards in
:25:19. > :25:22.the education system. One thing that we know is that standards have
:25:22. > :25:26.been slipping for a very long time, and we need to raise standards, and
:25:26. > :25:33.if that means giving more autonomy, more diversity within our community
:25:33. > :25:36.schools, that is what we need to do. On the issue of raising standards,
:25:36. > :25:41.with the free schools to raise standards in the sense that they
:25:41. > :25:45.have marvellous GCSE results or there is a rise in measures of
:25:45. > :25:49.children's ability, will that be a good thing, regardless of where the
:25:49. > :25:53.money comes from? Of course, but only if it raises it across the
:25:53. > :25:58.piece. If they have simply creamed off the best kids and the average
:25:58. > :26:02.of the area stays the same, nobody is checking. What really matters is
:26:02. > :26:05.that 20 of the schools which are opening now are in areas which do
:26:05. > :26:09.not need them. They are using money from that area to build those
:26:09. > :26:14.schools, taking away from schools that desperately needed, creating
:26:14. > :26:17.surplus of spaces. Free schools are not one thing. Some are very good,
:26:17. > :26:21.set up by groups of teachers or other schools, some of them are
:26:21. > :26:25.religious schools, which we absolutely do not need more of.
:26:25. > :26:29.Free school covers a multitude of the good and bad, so we should not
:26:29. > :26:33.talk about them as one type of thing. It depends where and what.
:26:33. > :26:37.There is a question about regulation. They say they are not
:26:37. > :26:41.selective, but is there a bit of self-selection. In the end, they
:26:41. > :26:45.are getting better pupils, so they will get better results, so it will
:26:45. > :26:51.not be down to improving standards or better teachers. That is not
:26:51. > :26:55.true. It is amazing to say Polly -- it is amazing to here police say
:26:55. > :27:00.that these schools are not needed. We are moving into a wonderful year,
:27:00. > :27:04.moving away from the idea that politicians say this school is
:27:04. > :27:07.needed, into an era where parents and teachers decide what is needed
:27:07. > :27:11.and where. There is an incredible power flip going on away from the
:27:11. > :27:16.government towards teachers, and it is really heartening to see. It is
:27:16. > :27:21.about parents demand. We must not let the tail WAG the Dog. Of course,
:27:21. > :27:25.Polly is right, there are examples of free schools being set up which
:27:25. > :27:31.clearly meets demand, which are based on both parents of and
:27:31. > :27:33.teacher requests, but some are not, and it is not a good use of public
:27:33. > :27:36.resources to spend such an amount of money on a small number of
:27:36. > :27:41.schools which may or may not have anything to do with meeting local
:27:41. > :27:45.demand. But you are not going to close any of these schools if you
:27:45. > :27:48.were to come into power, because if they do the right thing, they
:27:48. > :27:52.should stay. You have to look at the schools in existence and see
:27:52. > :27:55.what they are doing and see if they are meeting demand, look at the
:27:55. > :27:59.provision of service in and around them. We are not going to go
:27:59. > :28:05.stomping in and closing popular and successful local schools of course
:28:05. > :28:10.saying that the overwhelming majority of children in our schools
:28:10. > :28:16.need to be served well, not have money being distorted for a tiny
:28:16. > :28:19.number of pupils in a scheme which simply takes a box and allows
:28:19. > :28:25.Michael Gove to claim a revolution in schools, which is not touching
:28:25. > :28:30.the overwhelming majority of pupils. Briefly on the sort of story on the
:28:30. > :28:36.GCSE results, the number of Dead In The Boot to C grades fell for the
:28:36. > :28:42.first time in the history of the GCSE results. -- A to C grades.
:28:42. > :28:45.That is because the boundaries have been reset by the examination
:28:45. > :28:52.boards, and there is an absolute stopping of this dumbing-down and
:28:52. > :28:56.sliding towards, you know, as as a nation doing worse. Standards have
:28:56. > :29:00.got to raise, and this is a great start, I think, in lifting
:29:00. > :29:05.standards back to where they should be. The end of dumbing-down under
:29:05. > :29:09.Labour. Pupils who got exactly the same marks in the June examinations,
:29:09. > :29:13.or in some cases better than they did in the January examination, but
:29:13. > :29:18.who failed whereas in January they would have passed. It could be as
:29:18. > :29:21.many as 65,000 students who on not able, in some cases, to proceed on
:29:21. > :29:26.to A-levels, apprenticeships and further education, which is what we
:29:26. > :29:30.want them to do. We have asked the Select Committee to raise in the
:29:30. > :29:34.look into what has happened, and it is essential, it is a question of
:29:34. > :29:36.fairness that pupils who got as good marks as they did in the
:29:36. > :29:40.earlier part of being in a summer examination should not be
:29:40. > :29:43.disadvantaged as a result. Karen Buck, Craig Whitaker, thank you
:29:43. > :29:47.both very much. It is tough being the leader of a
:29:47. > :29:51.political party, just as Nick Clegg, or David Cameron, or Ed Miliband,
:29:51. > :29:58.for that matter. But one party leader is feeling on top of the
:29:58. > :30:01.world, Natalie Bennett. Who?! Come on, Natalie Bennett, elected the
:30:01. > :30:06.new leader of the Green Party of England and Wales. We can talk to
:30:06. > :30:12.them now. Welcome to the Daily Politics. It is a bit of a poisoned
:30:12. > :30:15.chalice, this, isn't it? Rightly or wrongly, many voters think Green is
:30:15. > :30:18.for the good times, they do not want to be green when they are
:30:18. > :30:28.worried about their next pay cheque or whether they are going to keep
:30:28. > :30:29.
:30:29. > :30:34.Absolutely not. We understand there is a great political opportunity
:30:34. > :30:38.for the Green Party at the moment. Voters are looking around saying
:30:38. > :30:43.there are three parties offering exactly the same. The Green Party
:30:43. > :30:50.is offering the chance for a different kind of economy, where we
:30:50. > :30:53.invest in the future, housing, jobs, renewable energy and interest in
:30:53. > :30:59.keeping people warmer in comfortable homes, and this is
:30:59. > :31:04.attractive to more and more people. Why did only 3000 members of your
:31:04. > :31:09.party bothered to vote in the election? If you hold an election
:31:09. > :31:17.during the month of August, you would expect that turn out not to
:31:17. > :31:22.be high. People could not decide and that is the way it works, and
:31:22. > :31:27.they felt they did not want to vote. But we have a vision for the future
:31:27. > :31:32.of Britain that is attractive to large numbers of voters and I am
:31:32. > :31:42.confident we can elect many more councillors. How many people voted
:31:42. > :31:42.
:31:42. > :31:48.for you? I think the actual, final count was 42% of the first
:31:48. > :31:55.preference. Her many? I do not know the numbers of hand. You do not
:31:55. > :32:01.know how many people have voted for you? No, but I know I got about 500
:32:01. > :32:08.more votes than the second person. He was an MEP in the north-west.
:32:08. > :32:13.a year's time if we were speaking to you again, what were you have
:32:13. > :32:18.achieved? I will aim in the next two years, it is a two-year period,
:32:18. > :32:21.to see that we have collected many more councillors up and down the
:32:21. > :32:26.country and that in the European elections week treble our number of
:32:26. > :32:30.MEPs, which will mean many more people in England and Wales will
:32:30. > :32:35.have an elected Green representative working for them.
:32:35. > :32:41.You will treble the number of MEPs you have? That is what we are
:32:41. > :32:47.aiming for. If you take a blanket swing, it needs a 1.3% swing and
:32:47. > :32:52.that is achievable. Event that you your predecessors have staked the
:32:52. > :32:56.Green Party on the left of British politics, and some would say the
:32:56. > :33:04.far left, if you are eight Tory inclined green or a moderate
:33:04. > :33:08.inclined Green, they cannot vote for you, can they? I think policies
:33:08. > :33:12.like the minimum wage should be a living wage, that is a policy I
:33:12. > :33:19.find resonates with people who live in multi-million-pound houses or
:33:19. > :33:22.who live in council estates, saying people should get benefits for a
:33:22. > :33:27.decent light. That his policies people right across the political
:33:27. > :33:31.spectrum understand. Do you also think the maximum wage should be 10
:33:31. > :33:36.times the minimum wage? We do indeed and that is a policy we find
:33:36. > :33:42.is also very popular. We made a great deal of that in the London
:33:42. > :33:47.elections and we finished third. Let me get this right, let's be
:33:47. > :33:52.generous and say the living wage would be �20,000 a year. It is your
:33:52. > :33:57.policy that no-one in this country should be paid more than 2000 --
:33:57. > :34:02.�200,000 a year? That is something we want to work towards two and
:34:02. > :34:10.that is perfectly enough to live on decently. So farewell the English
:34:10. > :34:16.Premier League? Well, I think we would have a healthier team and a
:34:16. > :34:20.much better English national team if we did that. But there are many
:34:20. > :34:24.industries in this country, I picked for all because it is the
:34:24. > :34:28.most easily recognised, there are many recognised industries in this
:34:28. > :34:33.country that depend on paying their top people more than �200,000 a
:34:33. > :34:38.year. We can agree the bankers are overwhelmingly over pay, but there
:34:38. > :34:43.are many industries from the head of Rolls Royce to the head of
:34:43. > :34:49.Airbus in Britain who will not stay if you keep their salaries at
:34:49. > :34:53.�200,000. What would you do? First of all, it is worth saying we are
:34:53. > :34:58.not talking about doing this in terms of putting out legislation.
:34:58. > :35:02.We want to explain why it is a good idea and have it happen in the
:35:02. > :35:05.public sector and work on from there. You mention the bankers and
:35:05. > :35:10.we have got this great talent by paying them lots of money, but it
:35:10. > :35:16.has broken the world economy. Giving people huge incentive
:35:16. > :35:21.payments and huge bonuses, it encourages people to play again in
:35:21. > :35:25.the system, not do their job well. Most people want to do a decent job
:35:25. > :35:30.during the day, whether you ran a national company or work in a call
:35:30. > :35:35.centre. Natalie Bennett, thank you for joining us. It is a very green
:35:35. > :35:40.backdrop, it looks perfect for your election today. Polly Toynbee, D
:35:40. > :35:44.the Greens have an opportunity now given a lot of younger Lib-Dem
:35:44. > :35:49.voters, particularly the students who are hardly likely to queue up
:35:50. > :35:54.to vote again, do the Greens have an opportunity or his Labour were
:35:54. > :36:00.likely to get the next votes? think the Greens have done very
:36:00. > :36:04.well, they have done very well in Brighton and they have got Brighton
:36:04. > :36:09.council and they beat the Lib Dems in the mayoral elections. There is
:36:09. > :36:15.room in the spectrum for a party to the left of Labour. It used to be
:36:15. > :36:21.called the Lib Dems. Yes, indeed. We are not talking about outrageous
:36:21. > :36:28.left like in the days of the eight and sees -- 80s, the Militant
:36:28. > :36:33.tendency, this is moderate staff. It is not old fashioned Labour left.
:36:33. > :36:37.They still want to repeal the union legislation, dove. They want to
:36:37. > :36:40.make friends with the unions and they are quite keen to do that and
:36:40. > :36:46.quite keen to attract some of that element, but they are of a
:36:46. > :36:50.different breed and I think they will attract quite a lot of votes,
:36:50. > :36:56.particularly the Lib Dem ones. There is just time to find out the
:36:56. > :37:02.answer to our quiz. It was not very difficult, particularly for you,
:37:02. > :37:07.Fraser, be an expert on Margaret Thatcher's dresses. Which of these
:37:07. > :37:14.does not belong to Margaret Thatcher? I am going for the pop
:37:14. > :37:19.left because I think Meryl Streep war that in the film. Did you? That
:37:19. > :37:25.is a counter intuitive answer. think it is the pink dress, I think
:37:25. > :37:32.it is not her. You are right. I like the idea you think Meryl
:37:32. > :37:42.Streep war that dress. Did you say? Yes. You are more observant that I
:37:42. > :37:46.am. Polly is right, it is the obvious one. Quite rightly for a
:37:46. > :37:53.lady like her, she never exposed her shoulders. They are bound to
:37:53. > :37:57.raise about �1,500. So of the others were really lovely. There
:37:57. > :38:03.was a lovely pink suit number and I thought, I like that, I will buy
:38:03. > :38:12.that. The Greens want to abolish GDP as a
:38:12. > :38:19.measure of economic success. So did David Cameron. Thank you to both of
:38:19. > :38:23.you for being on our first show of the new season. I had a lovely
:38:23. > :38:28.couple of weeks in the south of France and Jo went camping in
:38:28. > :38:31.Dorset. We have no idea when Giles is planning to come back, but we
:38:31. > :38:41.had one of his unpaid work experience chappies to keep an eye
:38:41. > :38:46.on what happened at Westminster during the summer holidays.
:38:46. > :38:50.Thank you, I had a lovely time. While you have all been sunning
:38:50. > :38:56.yourself, I had a holiday at Westminster, keeping an eye on
:38:56. > :39:06.goings on at S W one and my case is packed full of souvenirs. What have
:39:06. > :39:06.
:39:06. > :39:10.we got here? An Olympic mascot in gold. David Cameron presided over a
:39:10. > :39:16.Games that was virtually hitched free and a gold rush for Team GB.
:39:16. > :39:20.The effect on the opinion polls? Virtually negligible. But perhaps
:39:21. > :39:30.the biggest winner was Boris, hanging around everywhere, most
:39:31. > :39:31.
:39:31. > :39:36.notably on this Olympic zip wire. Everybody he thinks they have
:39:36. > :39:41.reached the highest level, there is no such thing when it comes to the
:39:41. > :39:46.Olympics as this. After two years in the job the Conservative MP for
:39:46. > :39:50.Corby stood down to spend more time with her family. Bring on that by-
:39:50. > :39:56.election. My mug from the House of Lords did not get smashed in
:39:56. > :39:59.transit. Unlike Nick Clegg's plans for a reform of the upper chamber
:39:59. > :40:04.which collapsed because of a lack of support. The Conservative Party
:40:04. > :40:09.is not honouring the commitment to Lords reform and as a result part
:40:09. > :40:12.of our contract has now been broken. He withdrew his support for changes
:40:12. > :40:18.to constituency boundaries, which could have benefited the
:40:18. > :40:23.Conservatives. Why you were hopping on and off real ones of these,
:40:23. > :40:27.Westminster briefly went plain crazy. A prominent Conservative
:40:27. > :40:31.backbencher reignited the row over a third runway at Heathrow.
:40:31. > :40:36.realise we have to do something a bit more to get investment in this
:40:36. > :40:42.country, we have to do a bit more to stimulate the economy. This was
:40:42. > :40:45.all I had to read, a GCSE English revision guide. The Education
:40:45. > :40:50.Secretary Michael Gove denied he pressurised exam boards to be
:40:50. > :40:54.tougher after the number of pupils getting top GCSE grades fell for
:40:54. > :40:58.the first time ever. And you always find a bit of leftover holiday
:40:58. > :41:04.money in the bottom of your suitcase. Except the Government did
:41:04. > :41:07.not. In July George Osborne had to borrow an extra �600 million, even
:41:07. > :41:14.though experts had predicted the public purse would show a surplus
:41:14. > :41:19.of more than �2 billion. So, like the weather this summer, political
:41:19. > :41:23.fortunes have been a bit mixed. At least if you have not gone anywhere,
:41:23. > :41:28.you cannot have the holiday blues when you get back.
:41:28. > :41:34.Adam Fleming reporting. We have been joined by three MPs who will
:41:34. > :41:39.be with us until the end of the programme. The Conservative MP
:41:39. > :41:45.Nadim Zahawi, Labour's Tenby Perkins and Duncan Hames for the
:41:45. > :41:50.Lib Dems. Let's rewind a few weeks because it was a busy summer. Lords
:41:50. > :41:57.reform was dropped, Duncan Hames, an issue close to the Lib Dems. Was
:41:57. > :42:02.it right to drop it? Yes, it was the right decision. There was not a
:42:02. > :42:06.majority to bring the legislation about and the Labour Party made it
:42:06. > :42:11.clear they might claim to support the principle, but they were going
:42:11. > :42:15.to obstruct the means of passing the laws necessary. Do you agree
:42:15. > :42:18.with Nick Clegg when he said the Lib Dems would not be supporting
:42:18. > :42:23.legislation for boundary changes which could deliver 20 extra seats
:42:23. > :42:27.for the Tories? I agree with him and I support him in that and he
:42:27. > :42:32.will have the full support of the party as well. You see it as a
:42:32. > :42:37.broken contract, what do you say to that? I think it is sad because
:42:37. > :42:41.Lords reform was not linked with boundaries. It was clearly linked
:42:41. > :42:45.with the alternative vote referendum which we delivered on.
:42:45. > :42:51.If they had won that, would they then have delivered the boundaries
:42:51. > :42:56.or not? We could get on with reform now without elections. I have spent
:42:56. > :43:02.10 days in America of serving their system. Any American would say you
:43:02. > :43:07.do not need to follow our example and set up a Senate and put a
:43:07. > :43:10.gridlock in Government. We could reform the Government now, get rid
:43:10. > :43:15.of the criminals and the hereditary is, but sadly we are not seeing
:43:16. > :43:20.that. Is this your attempt to get the Lib Dems to back legislation
:43:20. > :43:24.for the boundary changes? No, I think the boundary changes is
:43:24. > :43:30.something that needs to happen and is fair. I hope the Prime Minister
:43:30. > :43:35.does bring them vote to the house. You think it is to the advantage of
:43:35. > :43:39.the Conservative Party, but it is making the system fairer. Do we
:43:39. > :43:44.want a democracy where people in the same size constituencies elect
:43:44. > :43:51.MPs quizzed Denmark or do we want Labour to get fewer of votes and
:43:51. > :43:56.form a Government? It is totally wrong. The 12 largest parliamentary
:43:56. > :44:00.seats are Labour seats. The whole point of the Boundary Change, about
:44:00. > :44:06.having more equal seats, was put into the purposes of the Boundary
:44:06. > :44:10.Commission initially and we support their work. But you do not support
:44:10. > :44:14.the legislation because you are worried about it giving an
:44:14. > :44:18.advantage to the Conservatives? Every time you do every
:44:18. > :44:23.organisation of the boundaries, you will benefit the Conservative Party.
:44:23. > :44:27.The Conservatives always had a big belief in the link between the MP
:44:27. > :44:33.and the constituency and it there had been more tolerant, you could
:44:33. > :44:37.have delivered more equal size of boundaries, without the need for us
:44:37. > :44:46.to break up communities. without the boundary changes the
:44:46. > :44:52.task of the Conservative Party, the pollster has said, it will be
:44:52. > :44:58.difficult for them to win the next election. This is just to create a
:44:58. > :45:08.level playing-field. What do you say to that? Your spike was not
:45:08. > :45:09.
:45:09. > :45:12.part of the deal, it was the ad The deal was the coalition
:45:12. > :45:16.agreement, all of it, and the deal was broken by not delivering on
:45:16. > :45:20.Lords reform, and this is a response which ensures you cannot
:45:20. > :45:24.have a situation where one group of MPs decide which part of the
:45:24. > :45:29.agreement will happen. Is it going to fracture the coalition? I think
:45:29. > :45:34.we are going to move on, because there's more to it. A Tory MPs
:45:34. > :45:38.going to draw a line under it? have got great respect for Duncan.
:45:38. > :45:43.If he reads the coalition agreement, we have delivered on House of Lords
:45:43. > :45:47.reform. I am talking about relations between the parties?
:45:47. > :45:50.the nation cares about, and we will come to it in a second with Andrew
:45:50. > :45:57.is the economy. As a coalition government, we need to deliver on
:45:57. > :46:03.that, because that is what we will be judged on in 2015. So what is
:46:03. > :46:06.this special ingredient for economic prosperity? George
:46:06. > :46:11.Osborne's latest answer is �50 billion worth of infrastructure
:46:11. > :46:15.guarantees, not spending, guarantees, more planning reforms,
:46:15. > :46:18.and a review of airport capacity in the south-east of England.
:46:18. > :46:21.Listening to Nick Clegg and the Lib Dems is a short-term wealth tax on
:46:21. > :46:27.the filthy rich. And then Conservative backbenchers might
:46:27. > :46:32.like the Chancellor to implement traditional Tory policies, bring
:46:32. > :46:42.down public spending, cut taxes. Here is David Davis speaking in the
:46:42. > :46:42.
:46:42. > :46:46.last few minutes. The economics, to understand should not be to excuse.
:46:46. > :46:52.The circumstances should not be an excuse for inaction, they should be
:46:52. > :46:56.a spur to dramatic action. Some will say that there are some who
:46:56. > :47:02.believe that our comparative decline is inevitable. They think
:47:02. > :47:07.that the growth of the great low- cost powers, China, India, Brazil,
:47:07. > :47:15.the other emerging markets, make the West and competitive and make
:47:15. > :47:20.Britain in particular uncompetitive. There -- and competitive. That we
:47:20. > :47:28.face a future of poor growth, low prospects, that we cannot compete,
:47:28. > :47:32.that this is the new normal. This is fatalistic nonsense. David
:47:32. > :47:37.Davies, he is still speaking, so we are not sure what he is proposing,
:47:37. > :47:41.but that was the beginning of his analysis. Nadhim Zahawi, if we look
:47:41. > :47:46.at what George Osborne was talking about yesterday, he is talking
:47:46. > :47:50.about billions of pounds worth of infrastructure guarantees from a
:47:50. > :47:53.government that continues Labour cuts in infrastructure spending. He
:47:53. > :47:57.is talking about more planning reform, you are already had to
:47:57. > :48:01.reform the planning system, and you had to water down your reforms. A
:48:01. > :48:07.review of airport capacity in the south-east, the transport
:48:07. > :48:11.department had been conducting that review, but you said you would not
:48:11. > :48:15.approve a third runway at Heathrow. So it is either a U-turn Orbit does
:48:15. > :48:20.not add up to a row of beans. not agree with you. You will not be
:48:20. > :48:26.surprised if I say that, because what was wrong with that was if you
:48:26. > :48:29.look at where we are today, the private sector has created 900,000
:48:30. > :48:34.jobs in the last two years. You are right to say we have not got the
:48:34. > :48:39.growth we thought we would get, but we have had eurozone Armageddon, so
:48:39. > :48:43.coupled with that we are not in a bad place. Up until last week, we
:48:43. > :48:46.were borrowing a much higher rate than America. Last week we borrowed
:48:46. > :48:50.at high -- lower rates than even America, so we must be doing
:48:50. > :48:55.something right. It cannot all be bad news. You're also borrowing
:48:55. > :48:59.more. We are, because growth has not come through, because there is
:48:59. > :49:01.a lack of confidence, but I used to be in business, and businessmen and
:49:01. > :49:07.women will be looking at the eurozone headlines and worrying
:49:07. > :49:11.about investing. Their awarding about 750 billion at the moment. --
:49:11. > :49:17.they are hoarding. That is exactly the point, because business is not
:49:17. > :49:21.short of money. Business is sitting on billions of pounds. They do not
:49:21. > :49:24.invest it because they do not trust your government, that is why.
:49:24. > :49:28.Guarantees only go to businesses that need to borrow. Big business
:49:28. > :49:32.does not need to borrow, it has money in the bank. The question you
:49:32. > :49:36.have to ask is why his business not investing when it has got the cash,
:49:37. > :49:40.and it must be something to do with your government? It is something to
:49:40. > :49:44.do with the government, absolutely, but it is more to do with overall
:49:44. > :49:49.confidence. If you were in business today, would you be putting money
:49:49. > :49:52.into Europe as a whole, which we are part of, our manufacturing, the
:49:52. > :49:56.bulk of it goes to Europe, would you be effectively making that
:49:56. > :50:01.decision? That is the big part of it, but put that aside for a minute.
:50:01. > :50:06.What can we do here to make that decision happen. Things like
:50:06. > :50:12.learning from Germany, where you take away bureaucracy, where people
:50:12. > :50:16.can hold one or two or three many jobs, and the employer pays a flat
:50:16. > :50:19.rate, but the employer has the freedom, if their investment goes
:50:19. > :50:25.wrong, they can go back to a smaller business. That is the sort
:50:25. > :50:30.of thing you'll be hearing, I hope, from the Treasury. Really?! I have
:50:30. > :50:35.not heard that! We have done a hell of a lot on red tape. Are you happy
:50:35. > :50:38.with that? I'm afraid if right sizing is still a term used to
:50:38. > :50:42.describe having fewer employees, we are not getting the answer right.
:50:42. > :50:45.We want to increase employment. There has been nearly one million
:50:45. > :50:48.more jobs in the private sector since this Government started, but
:50:48. > :50:53.we need more measures to ensure that those businesses can grow and
:50:53. > :50:55.that there is more activity to support employment, because it is
:50:55. > :50:59.only with high levels of employment that we will have consumer
:50:59. > :51:03.confidence. Your man Vince Cable does not like the regulation and
:51:03. > :51:08.business. I do not think that is true. What has he the regulated?
:51:08. > :51:12.For example, there was a proposal about the size of businesses that
:51:12. > :51:18.had to have their accounts independently audited. That changed
:51:18. > :51:22.in that department,... That will give us a boom! It has released
:51:22. > :51:26.small businesses from red tape that they could have done without.
:51:26. > :51:33.one major deregulation measure that might grow I will tell you. I am
:51:33. > :51:36.asking him! I have just cited... Let's be honest, one major one,
:51:36. > :51:40.changing that for small businesses is not going to make Britain a
:51:40. > :51:43.tiger economy. I used to run a small business, and I could have
:51:43. > :51:50.done without having to pay accountant's fees on annual
:51:50. > :51:54.accounts. Labour's position is to have more stimulus, and in a sense
:51:54. > :51:59.what Mr Osborne is announcing is a kind of moving on to your side of
:51:59. > :52:04.the argument a bit. But what you can never tell us is how much more
:52:04. > :52:08.stimulus. I think we have laid out very specifically different
:52:08. > :52:13.strategies that would introduce growth, reversing the VAT increase,
:52:13. > :52:17.putting more money in people's pockets, national insurance break
:52:17. > :52:21.for small businesses to encourage them to employ. Remember, back in
:52:21. > :52:27.2010 we had growth in the economy, we actually had the first time in
:52:27. > :52:31.six is falling youth unemployment. We have seen a government coming in,
:52:31. > :52:34.George Osborne dampened down to that growth, and now what we are
:52:34. > :52:39.seeing is the Government constantly talking about growth but actually,
:52:39. > :52:43.as you have alluded to, delivering very little. No matter how quickly
:52:43. > :52:46.you get these infrastructure investments through, it will still
:52:46. > :52:53.be a while, and it will be even longer as the money percolates
:52:53. > :52:57.through the economy. If you cut VAT, you would immediately put �12
:52:57. > :53:02.billion into the pockets of the British people to spend tomorrow,
:53:02. > :53:06.why don't you do that? Because we have to be responsible. As I was
:53:06. > :53:09.saying about the confidence of the markets, we must be able to borrow,
:53:09. > :53:13.because we are borrowing an enormous amount of money. We have
:53:13. > :53:17.to convince the markets that we are going to balance the books by 2017,
:53:17. > :53:20.which is what the Chancellor is heading towards. You know you're
:53:20. > :53:27.not going to do that. You are going to borrow more money this year than
:53:27. > :53:31.last. Under Labour's plans, you had to borrow 201 billion more. Hold on
:53:31. > :53:35.a minute, you are planning to borrow more than Alistair Darling
:53:35. > :53:41.outlined before labour laws bar. You are going to borrow more
:53:41. > :53:45.between now and 2017 than Mr Darling was in Beijing -- was
:53:45. > :53:50.envisaging. The deficit is likely to be 14 billion higher this year
:53:50. > :53:53.and up to 27 billion higher next year. What he is saying is that it
:53:53. > :53:57.least if you do it in a way that puts money into people's pockets,
:53:57. > :54:01.you might get some growth. There is a perfect example of this happening
:54:01. > :54:05.in Denmark. They have had a new government that promise to do what
:54:05. > :54:08.Labour wants to do in this country, which is an unprecedented amount of
:54:08. > :54:11.more spending, which is what they criticised us for not doing, and
:54:11. > :54:18.look at what has happened. Three quarters of negative growth in
:54:18. > :54:23.Denmark... Like Britain? No, it is not the same thing, because we have
:54:23. > :54:28.a debt crisis. You cannot borrow your way out of a debt crisis.
:54:28. > :54:32.conference last year, Nick Clegg and Vince Cable promised, at the
:54:32. > :54:36.conference, there would be extra infrastructure spending. That is
:54:36. > :54:39.one year ago. What extra spending has there been? The green
:54:39. > :54:45.investment bank has started work a year early. It has not started
:54:45. > :54:51.lending any money! It has started making decisions about investment.
:54:51. > :54:56.It has not started borrowing yet... He promised one year ago, you have
:54:56. > :55:00.passed romance, give me one example. The decision to electrify the Great
:55:00. > :55:05.Western Railway, that is investing in infrastructure. When does that
:55:05. > :55:10.start? Well, the decision has been made, at such major projects need
:55:10. > :55:14.planning. You have at road projects, it is not fair to say that nothing
:55:14. > :55:18.has started. You can go to all parts of the country, you will see
:55:18. > :55:22.projects happening on the ground. At the last Lib Dem Conference,
:55:22. > :55:30.they promised an extra 5 billion over and above what was being
:55:30. > :55:33.promised. I just wanted to ask what was new, that was all in the plans.
:55:33. > :55:38.Let us know, we will put it up on the website.
:55:38. > :55:47.We at the Daily Politics No 8 and Lackham when we see one, so it is
:55:47. > :55:51.time for a Daily Politics special. -- No a bandwagon. As if our quiz
:55:51. > :55:57.was not enough, we have commissioned some extra-special
:55:57. > :56:01.Daily Politics mugs as prizes. We have gold, silver bronze logos. We
:56:01. > :56:04.do not have buzzers, we are not rich enough for that, so you will
:56:04. > :56:08.just have to put your hands up in a polite manner, and we will have to
:56:08. > :56:18.do it fairly quickly. Question number one about summer holidays,
:56:18. > :56:21.
:56:21. > :56:27.In terms of summer holidays... Miliband! Why? David Cameron and
:56:27. > :56:37.Nick Clegg both went to Spain. good, one point. No. Two, in a
:56:37. > :56:42.
:56:42. > :56:48.similar vein, which are these three No? Any clues? He was running the
:56:48. > :56:53.country? Oh, Theresa May. William Hague was running the country.
:56:53. > :56:59.is the opposite, Clegg is the odd one out, because both of them were
:56:59. > :57:03.running the country. No points for that, I am afraid. Number three,
:57:03. > :57:07.this famous picture that we saw earlier. Boris Johnson famously
:57:07. > :57:15.became stuck uneasy acquire over the summer, but can you complete
:57:15. > :57:22.his quote? -- stuck on a zip wire. It needs to go faster? Very good,
:57:22. > :57:25.Duncan. Louise Mensch announced, in a surprise announcement, that she
:57:25. > :57:34.was leaving Parliament to spend more time with her family, but how
:57:34. > :57:43.many days has she been an MP? Let's see how quickly you can work close.
:57:43. > :57:52.I will take the closest. 810. More than that. That was very close, 847.
:57:52. > :57:56.The 5th on, this is the favourite They have all been photographed
:57:57. > :58:06.doing the Mobot, except Prince Harry, who was photographed doing
:58:07. > :58:07.
:58:07. > :58:12.something else! Any suggestions? The crown jewels! I have to say,
:58:12. > :58:21.you have done very well, I might have to present you with the gold.
:58:21. > :58:28.There we go. Silver. That is harsh! At least you still get a man. Do
:58:29. > :58:34.not say we do not give you anything. Duncan Hames obviously very good at
:58:34. > :58:38.the pub quiz! Right, that is it, it is good to be back, politics looks
:58:38. > :58:42.very exciting this September. We thank our guests for being with us
:58:42. > :58:46.today, and we have plenty more in the weeks ahead. Party conferences
:58:46. > :58:51.coming up, the One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC One in just a