:00:43. > :00:46.Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. The news from
:00:46. > :00:52.across the Channel and sur le continent is the bazooka has
:00:52. > :00:56.finally been found. Maybe not a big bazooka, but a bazooka nevertheless.
:00:56. > :01:02.The European Central Bank has now fleshed out what it means by doing
:01:02. > :01:05."whatever it takes" to save the euro. But has it really got the
:01:05. > :01:10.firepower to consign the eurocrisis to history? We'll hear from Our
:01:10. > :01:14.Woman in the City. Barack Obama has made his pitch for
:01:14. > :01:19.four more years in the White House. We'll be live at the Democratic
:01:19. > :01:22.Convention in North Carolina with reaction to the President's speech.
:01:22. > :01:24.As the dust settles, the wine bottles are binned and the tears
:01:24. > :01:29.dry after this week's reshuffle, we'll look at the departments and
:01:29. > :01:32.ministers to watch in the new Cabinet.
:01:32. > :01:39.And after scenes like this, you'd be forgiven for thinking that
:01:39. > :01:41.satire's dead. Not a bit of it. We're joined by one of the stars of
:01:41. > :01:51.the Thick Of It as the expletive- not-deleted political comedy turns
:01:51. > :01:56.
:01:56. > :02:00.its fire on the coalition All that in the next hour. With me
:02:00. > :02:03.for the duration, Gaby Hinsliff - once upon a time, she worked for
:02:03. > :02:05.the Observer but she's been given a new job over the summer holidays as
:02:05. > :02:13.political editor of one of my favourite magazines for
:02:13. > :02:18.intellectual insight, Grazia. So, congratulations, Gaby. I know you
:02:18. > :02:21.are a keen reader. I publish it in Dubai. And also with me Danny
:02:21. > :02:26.Finkelstein, he's a columnist for Times newspaper when he's not on
:02:26. > :02:30.manoeuvres for George Osborne. I'm not sure what he's doing here today
:02:30. > :02:32.and did which capacity, we will find out.
:02:32. > :02:37.Let's start with something that hasn't changed over the summer and
:02:37. > :02:40.will soon be longer running than The Mousetrap - the eurocrisis.
:02:40. > :02:44.Before Europe's leaders headed for the Med in late July, the boss of
:02:44. > :02:52.the ECB, Mario Draghi, vowed to do whatever it takes to save the euro.
:02:52. > :02:55.That kept the markets purring through August. Yesterday, with the
:02:55. > :02:57.pols back from their hols, the ECB said it would buy, in unlimited
:02:57. > :03:01.amounts, the government debt of troubled countries like Spain and
:03:01. > :03:09.Italy, as long as they ask for a bail-out and accepted the IMF-
:03:09. > :03:15.monitored conditions that came with it. So, a game-changer or just
:03:15. > :03:19.another can being kicked down the road? Earlier George Osborne, the
:03:19. > :03:22.Chancellor, very popular at the Olympics, gave the news a thumbs-up
:03:22. > :03:25.and even said it would help of folks here in Britain. It is a very
:03:25. > :03:30.welcome announcement from the European Central Bank and what we
:03:30. > :03:34.have been saying for two a year since we really want the
:03:34. > :03:37.institutions of the euro to get behind their currency -- two years.
:03:37. > :03:40.It is of huge interest to the people of Europe and the people of
:03:40. > :03:49.the United Kingdom because one of the things that has hit the British
:03:49. > :03:52.economy is the weakness of the euro. Now to find out how the financial
:03:52. > :03:57.markets have responded to this latest rescue attempt, we're joined
:03:57. > :04:05.by Louise Cooper of BGC Partners in Canary Wharf. Lilies, great to see
:04:05. > :04:10.you again. Indeed it is. What a surprise, we are going to talk
:04:10. > :04:15.about the euro. Am I right in thinking that in 2010-2011, the ECB
:04:15. > :04:19.already amassed over 200 billion euros in sovereign bonds from
:04:19. > :04:26.various troubled countries. That didn't seem to make any difference,
:04:26. > :04:31.why will this? It has got a different name. That was called the
:04:31. > :04:40.SNP and this is the o n t, so it must be a different beast. No, I
:04:41. > :04:44.have been sarcastic! Just to get it clear, my understanding is that
:04:44. > :04:49.even though the markets see it as a get out of jail card for a while,
:04:49. > :04:55.this does not include any help for Greece, Portugal or Ireland,
:04:55. > :05:02.because they themselves cannot access the bond markets. OK, what
:05:02. > :05:07.this does, the financial markets have loved it since he said the
:05:07. > :05:12."Whatever it takes" speech, the bond markets and equity markets
:05:12. > :05:17.have flurried, admittedly on low volume, but it has gone down well
:05:17. > :05:20.and short-term borrowing costs for Spain and Italy, one, too, three-
:05:20. > :05:25.year borrowing costs, have halved, they have fallen dramatically. It
:05:25. > :05:31.sounds like Mario Draghi has come up with at least a step. However,
:05:31. > :05:35.if you look at long-term borrowing tests -- borrowing costs for Spain
:05:35. > :05:39.and Italy, they are at a high level. It helps in the near term but there
:05:39. > :05:43.is still an awful lot that needs to be done. My understanding is that
:05:43. > :05:48.Greece, Portugal and Ireland are excluded and even Spain and Italy
:05:48. > :05:53.can only expect the ECB to come in and buy their bombs, it will be on
:05:53. > :06:01.the secondary market, not directly -- bombs. It is only if they
:06:01. > :06:05.formally ask for a bail-out and accept conditions that it will be
:06:05. > :06:11.monitored by the IMF. Mario Draghi and the ECB learned their lesson
:06:11. > :06:15.from Italy a year ago, when the ECB came in and bought Italian bonds on
:06:15. > :06:21.the promise from Silvio Berlusconi that he would sort out Italy's
:06:21. > :06:25.budget deficit. Well, he didn't, he got kicked out of office by Angela
:06:25. > :06:31.Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy and the ECB has learned its lesson. It will
:06:31. > :06:35.only come into ridges country's -- a country's borrowing costs by
:06:35. > :06:38.buying the short amount of their debt if those countries accept
:06:39. > :06:44.essentially direction, fiscal direction and fiscal control, from
:06:44. > :06:48.outside. The conditionality, as he calls it, is an absolute heart
:06:48. > :06:53.limit for the ECB now. They have stated they have learned their
:06:53. > :06:56.lesson. If you want the help of the ECB, you have to give up your
:06:56. > :07:03.sovereignty of controlling your own finances, and that is very much on
:07:03. > :07:07.the cards, and unfortunately, Spanish Prime Minister is not keen
:07:07. > :07:12.on that, because it tends to be political suicide if you call in
:07:12. > :07:17.the bail-out fund and say you cannot control your finances.
:07:17. > :07:20.head of the Bundesbank who sits on the ECB council seems to be in a
:07:20. > :07:27.minority of one but he says it looks too much like state financing
:07:27. > :07:32.via the money presses. Yes, the Bundesbank is not happy about this.
:07:32. > :07:37.The hard currency Germans are very unhappy, they don't see it as the
:07:38. > :07:42.ECB sees it, as helping Baba pot they call it Monetary Policy
:07:42. > :07:46.Commission, so if the ECB sets low interest rates then interest rates
:07:46. > :07:52.should be low. The Bundesbank doesn't see it like that, they see
:07:52. > :07:57.it as minor ties in government debt. We have already seen two Bundesbank
:07:57. > :08:01.head to leave the ECB, it could well be we get a third. What is
:08:01. > :08:06.interesting is that the ECB, under Mario Draghi, is almost sticking
:08:06. > :08:11.two fingers up at the Bundesbank saying we have pandered to you,
:08:11. > :08:14.done everything, but now we are in fundamental disagreement. The
:08:14. > :08:17.European Central Bank is not going to be modelled on the Bundesbank of
:08:17. > :08:21.old. We think the ECB should be modelled more like the Federal
:08:21. > :08:25.Reserve in the States, that has indulged in massive amounts of
:08:25. > :08:33.money printing and done all kind of things to backstop America's
:08:33. > :08:36.banking industry. So this is a significant change, this is the
:08:36. > :08:41.move from a band has backed European Central Bank to a Federal
:08:41. > :08:45.Reserve European Central Bank. -- A Bundesbank. This is a significant
:08:45. > :08:51.move that this is not the ECB of the past based on Germany. Stick
:08:51. > :08:56.with us, I will bring their guests in. E7, why do I feel this is not
:08:57. > :09:00.the end of the story -- Danny? Because they have borrowed too much
:09:01. > :09:04.and this is an attempt to escape the consequences of it. It can't be
:09:04. > :09:08.a long-term solution. If one country is going to stand for
:09:09. > :09:12.another country's borrowing, that country will demand political
:09:12. > :09:15.control of the first country. That political control will not be
:09:15. > :09:19.seeded until they see the problem of the euro that they created is
:09:19. > :09:23.that it required a political union that they don't want to rush into
:09:23. > :09:26.being, they cannot solve the problem. Until individual countries
:09:26. > :09:30.accept they have to get their borrowing down, they cannot solve
:09:30. > :09:33.the problem. The financial markets are happy, we are right to be
:09:33. > :09:37.pleased because it beats we don't have the immediate crisis in Europe
:09:37. > :09:45.that has been holding us back to some extent, but it is not a long-
:09:45. > :09:49.term solution. Gaby, from what lilies was saying, if -- lilies was
:09:49. > :09:53.saying, the smaller countries are excluded because they cannot go to
:09:53. > :09:59.the bond market, the once this is gear for his Spain and Italy, but
:09:59. > :10:04.for Madrid and Rome, they will have to ask for a bail-out, that is huge.
:10:04. > :10:07.It is a huge loss of face and in political terms, what is the point
:10:07. > :10:12.of being a politician if you are giving away your day-to-day control
:10:13. > :10:15.for someone else but this is not a new problem. IMF bail-outs carried
:10:16. > :10:18.the exact same combination of carrot and stick and it is
:10:18. > :10:23.unreasonable to expect Germany to stand behind the rest of Europe
:10:23. > :10:28.without any control over what records countries might do. Just to
:10:28. > :10:34.finish up, I think most people can see this is not a game the Changer,
:10:34. > :10:37.it is maybe just kicking the can down the road -- a game changed.
:10:37. > :10:41.While the markets have liked it so far, when they have seen the small
:10:41. > :10:44.print and realise the hurdles that Rome and Madrid, the political
:10:44. > :10:50.hurdles to trigger this bond bind, will the markets correct
:10:50. > :10:56.themselves? It is all dependent on what the Spanish Prime Minister
:10:56. > :11:01.does. If he continues to ignore the problem in Spain and does not ask
:11:01. > :11:05.for help early, then things could get a beer. If he asks for help
:11:05. > :11:11.early, which is politically very difficult -- things could get ugly,
:11:11. > :11:14.if he does as they help early, which is politically difficult, the
:11:15. > :11:19.contagion may not spread. We need to see Spain sorted out so we don't
:11:19. > :11:22.worry about Italy. I fear because of the political situation at home,
:11:22. > :11:27.the Spanish Prime Minister is going to wait until he is forced to ask
:11:27. > :11:30.for help and ask for a bail-out, and that is when it gets horrid.
:11:30. > :11:37.Thank you for that, don't go far away, because we will be back at
:11:37. > :11:42.some stage in the weeks ahead. It has been eventful week in
:11:42. > :11:45.Westminster, I have been told, with David Cameron's first and may be
:11:45. > :11:48.only major Cabinet reshuffle, but what do the changes in personnel
:11:48. > :11:52.mean for the direction of the Government and the development of
:11:52. > :11:55.the policy in the months ahead? The Health and international
:11:56. > :11:58.development bar -- department is now in the hands of Jeremy Hunt and
:11:59. > :12:03.Justine Greening respectively and both of them have ring-fenced
:12:03. > :12:08.budget. In fact the international budget is rising. But with
:12:08. > :12:13.borrowing so high, could these budgets start to St -- shrink with
:12:13. > :12:16.new Ministers in place? The Times has questioned whether the new
:12:16. > :12:20.International Development Secretary wanted the job in the first place
:12:20. > :12:24.and then questioned why the budget was so big and why it was rising.
:12:24. > :12:30.She did that on the day of the reshuffle. Cutting aid would
:12:30. > :12:34.certainly make her popular with Tory backbenchers. Other changes at
:12:34. > :12:40.the Ministry of Justice, now being run by Chris Grayling, who performs
:12:40. > :12:44.Ken Clarke and is likely to take a tougher line in many areas
:12:44. > :12:48.including human rights and baby injecting new life into plans for a
:12:48. > :12:53.UK Bill of Rights. The Lib Dems will have something to say about
:12:53. > :12:58.that. Many Tories want a Bill of Rights, a British one, to replace
:12:58. > :13:01.the Labour's Human Rights Act. They may also be interesting times at
:13:01. > :13:04.the education department, with David Laws their operating as Nick
:13:04. > :13:08.Clegg's eyes and ears in that department. It could be an
:13:09. > :13:13.uncomfortable prospect for the Education Secretary Michael Gove.
:13:13. > :13:18.Indeed, we are told he wasn't happy about it. Danny, give us your
:13:18. > :13:23.overview. Everybody always tries to look at reshuffles as a move to the
:13:23. > :13:28.left or right, but... We didn't mention that. I did notice that,
:13:28. > :13:32.but Choi analysis was correct, you have to look at it department by
:13:32. > :13:36.department to see what the impact will be. I think the most
:13:36. > :13:39.significant, one publicly mentioned and less so, the move to the
:13:39. > :13:44.Justice Department. The Prime Minister has been able to make a
:13:44. > :13:47.speech on justice -- has not been able to make a speech on crime and
:13:47. > :13:51.justice for two-and-a-half years, and he had to make a change there,
:13:51. > :13:54.and the other one is in the week's office, he has a clear problem
:13:54. > :13:57.managing the Conservative Party and moving Andrew Mitchell from
:13:57. > :14:01.international development, where he was doing what the Prime Minister
:14:01. > :14:05.wanted but in a less important strategic area, to the whips office,
:14:05. > :14:10.might give him a better chance of managing the party if Andrew
:14:10. > :14:14.Mitchell get that right. When I looked at this, Gaby, it wasn't a
:14:14. > :14:19.government reshuffle, it was a Tory reshuffle. Not the Government. And
:14:19. > :14:24.it seemed to me that in a number of areas, in the environment and
:14:24. > :14:28.perhaps even in international aid, Heathrow, this was Mr Cameron now
:14:28. > :14:33.getting rid of all of the baggage with which she came to power.
:14:33. > :14:36.the baggage that he himself put their in many ways. We are told it
:14:36. > :14:39.is a reshuffle for delivery, putting people in charge who can
:14:39. > :14:42.push things through and there are two problems with that. They have
:14:42. > :14:48.been some great new junior Ministers but in but in some
:14:48. > :14:54.departments, health, there has been quite a change and massive teams
:14:54. > :14:57.that will take speed to get up -- time to get up to speed. And you
:14:57. > :15:01.have to watch the Out Door as well as the indoor. The appointments
:15:01. > :15:04.have been well managed, the exit have been messy to say the least.
:15:04. > :15:09.We have heard too much of people arguing with the Prime Minister for
:15:09. > :15:13.comfort and also some people I suspect will not go quietly. It has
:15:13. > :15:18.been quite remarkable and it may speak volumes for Mr Cameron's
:15:18. > :15:23.stature amongst Tory backbenchers. We are told Caroline Spelman argued
:15:23. > :15:28.with him when she was going to be fired, the brothers to as having a
:15:28. > :15:30.glass of wine to calm his nerves. Baroness Warsi goes up in a huff to
:15:30. > :15:34.Yorkshire and speaks to there, others were supposed to be in tears,
:15:34. > :15:38.although that has been denied, and a number of people when he said he
:15:38. > :15:42.wanted them to move, argued with him and Iain Duncan Smith said he
:15:42. > :15:48.was not moving and others said they did not want to move. Could you
:15:49. > :15:53.imagine that happening under It happens a lot when you move
:15:53. > :15:57.people and you sack them, people get very upset. I don't know
:15:57. > :16:01.whether this is par for the course. Tony Blair had several problems
:16:02. > :16:08.with his cabinet reshuffles. People refusing to move. I don't remember
:16:08. > :16:14.crying. It's not his fault, though. Don't you think it's strange?
:16:14. > :16:18.not terribly authorityive. The weird thing is people half hanging
:16:18. > :16:21.on, sort of attending cabinet and not really. The table looks like a
:16:21. > :16:26.family Christmas lunch with all the spare chairs from the loft and
:16:26. > :16:32.random people are hanging around. Far too many people for the food.
:16:32. > :16:37.The Conservatives and even the liberals are meant to believe in
:16:37. > :16:40.limited Government and that smaller Government is better Government,
:16:40. > :16:46.that's their general approach. Why have we 32 people around the
:16:46. > :16:51.cabinet table? I think actually the size of the cabinet and cabinet
:16:51. > :16:55.meetings isn't tremendously important because that's cabinet -
:16:55. > :17:00.it operates as a load of committees. The meeting of the cabinet was 25
:17:00. > :17:05.and I attended several meetings of 25 people around the table.
:17:05. > :17:08.symbolism isn't great. I am not sure that's quite the same point.
:17:08. > :17:12.There may be other questions about whether the Government is limited.
:17:12. > :17:16.I do happen to think it probably would have made sense to decide
:17:16. > :17:20.some people were just out. But we have also just discussed the fact
:17:20. > :17:24.you create political problems for yourself. Other people may be, and
:17:24. > :17:28.I understand the symbolism, I am not overworried about large cabinet
:17:28. > :17:33.meetings. I don't think it impedes Government very much. After his
:17:33. > :17:36.stellar handling of BSkyB Mr Hunt goes to health. Will he be rumbled
:17:36. > :17:38.at health. It's a good indication that at the end the Prime Minister
:17:38. > :17:41.didn't think that was as politically damaging as he thought
:17:41. > :17:45.it was at the time. In other words, that he realised that there was a
:17:45. > :17:49.lot of media interest in this but less public interest. So he felt he
:17:49. > :17:54.could keep Jeremy Hunt and even promote him. I think Jeremy Hunt is
:17:54. > :17:59.a subtle and capable person and I think he will - I think he is one
:17:59. > :18:03.of their better Ministers and I think the reason he's moved him to
:18:03. > :18:07.health is because he thinks he would be good with professional
:18:07. > :18:11.groups and that's where Andrew Lansley didn't work because
:18:11. > :18:15.ultimately he produced reforms but couldn't take professional groups
:18:15. > :18:18.with. Jeremy Hunt might be able to achieve success there. That's the
:18:18. > :18:23.reason why he's moved him. Naturally speaking, people will
:18:23. > :18:31.take a different view about BSkyB than me. That's why they'll take a
:18:31. > :18:34.different view of him. Now that we have judges calling burglars
:18:34. > :18:37.courageous, the Tory grass roots and back benches are going to be
:18:37. > :18:41.expecting Mr Grayling to do something about things like that,
:18:41. > :18:45.aren't they? I think he will get a very different tone from Chris
:18:45. > :18:48.Grayling. You will get more tough talk. You will get more combative
:18:48. > :18:53.approach to Europe particularly over human rights issue. People who
:18:53. > :18:57.expect him to be a hang them and flog them Justice Secretary aren't
:18:57. > :19:03.possibly going to be disappointed. He is against ID cards, database.
:19:03. > :19:08.He is not easily caricatured. Completely right, because the right
:19:08. > :19:11.of the Conservative Party moved a lot on civil liberties issues,
:19:11. > :19:15.partly under David Davis influence over a long period and that means
:19:15. > :19:19.they're not this traditional right- wing. Where he will move the party
:19:19. > :19:22.in terms of preparing to do something on a Bill of Rights and
:19:22. > :19:25.the European convention which is necessary. There's nothing he can
:19:25. > :19:28.do about this, this side of the election. It's a manifesto issue.
:19:29. > :19:35.You can't have a situation in which the Prime Minister can't speak on
:19:36. > :19:38.the issue because his Justice Secretary is out of sync with his
:19:38. > :19:47.Home Secretary. It's fascinating what's happened in stage two of the
:19:47. > :19:51.coalition. You have a Mr Hancock and Mr Fallon put in as minders to
:19:51. > :19:55.Vince Cable, and Mr Laws kind of put in as a minder to Mr Gove in
:19:55. > :19:57.education for the Lib Dems. There's a certain degree of what used to be
:19:58. > :20:02.called creative tension there, it has to be said. Whether that's
:20:02. > :20:06.going to make those departments hard tore move because people will
:20:06. > :20:09.be suspicious, clearly the feeling with Laws it's less a feeling that
:20:09. > :20:13.Michael Gove is being watched, more a feeling he has someone who was in
:20:13. > :20:23.cabinet as a Junior Minister and he is not going to be easily rolled
:20:23. > :20:24.
:20:24. > :20:29.over David laws, in a way Sarah Teather perhaps was. He is now
:20:29. > :20:32.apparently texting mate of Ed Miliband. What do we make of that.
:20:32. > :20:35.The Liberal Democrats are going to leave their options open to have a
:20:35. > :20:38.relationship with Labour after the next election. The Conservative
:20:38. > :20:42.Party has to understand that. It has to understand what that means
:20:42. > :20:45.in political terms, that it has to produce a stronger relationship
:20:45. > :20:48.with the Liberal Democrats and it has to broaden itself otherwise
:20:48. > :20:51.that's what will happen to it. It's got a warning there. Vince Cable is
:20:51. > :20:55.within his rights to do that. Because of course the Liberal
:20:55. > :20:57.Democrats and the the Conservatives don't agree with each other,
:20:57. > :21:01.they're two vastly different parties. It's remarkable it's
:21:01. > :21:06.happened so well. It's odd moving David Laws there. Michael Gove is
:21:06. > :21:09.one of the most pro-coalition, oddly enough, of all the Members of
:21:09. > :21:14.Parliament and I have seen him and David laws together and they have a
:21:14. > :21:18.good relationship. I think it's a bit of a waste of David Laws really
:21:18. > :21:22.putting him there. I am surprised... He is actually probably in favour
:21:22. > :21:26.of free schools, as well. I am surprised they didn't put him in
:21:26. > :21:29.justice. OK, that was our reshuffle. Let's move to the other side of the
:21:29. > :21:32.Atlantic. It was the speech that wowed Democrats at their Convention
:21:33. > :21:34.in North Carolina and made the most powerful case yet for the
:21:34. > :21:37.President's re-election. But enough of Bill Clinton's barn-storming
:21:37. > :21:40.oration on Wednesday, last night the current President accepted his
:21:40. > :21:47.party's nomination with a speech that didn't scale the heights of
:21:47. > :21:52.2008, but offered a more sober message to voters. Let's listen to
:21:52. > :22:00.what he had to say. When you pick up that ballot to vote, you will
:22:00. > :22:04.face the clearest choice of any time in a generation. Over the next
:22:04. > :22:12.few years big decisions will be made in Washington on jobs, the
:22:12. > :22:18.economy, taxes and deficits, energy, education, war and peace. Decisions
:22:18. > :22:22.that will have a huge impact on our lives and on our children's lives
:22:23. > :22:28.for decades to come. I never said this journey would be easy and I
:22:28. > :22:33.won't promise that now. Yes, our path is harder, but at t leads to a
:22:33. > :22:40.better place. Yes, our road is longer, but we travel it together.
:22:40. > :22:43.We don't turn back. We leave no one behind. We pull each other up, we
:22:43. > :22:49.draw strength from our victories and we learn from our mistakes. But
:22:49. > :22:53.we keep our eyes fixed on that distant horizon, knowing the
:22:53. > :23:00.providedance is with us and that we are surely blessed to be citizens
:23:00. > :23:06.of the greatest nation on earth. Thank you. God bless you, and God
:23:06. > :23:10.bless these United States. President Obama being crowned as
:23:10. > :23:15.his party's natural nominee for the presidential election on November
:23:15. > :23:22.6th. He is clearly one of the world's great orators. You saw some
:23:22. > :23:25.of that magic there. But it doesn't quite get the heart
:23:25. > :23:29.strings going, the way it did four years ago. Four years in power
:23:29. > :23:32.changes your view. You are relying on hope all the time when you are
:23:32. > :23:39.Obama. Look, the people have said the speech was a bit flat. I just
:23:39. > :23:44.wish I could make speeches as flat as that. You know, if - I have
:23:44. > :23:48.worked a lot on speeches and people can't do - the end of speeches very
:23:48. > :23:53.well, he really nailed that. It was amazing. Let's first of all, a lot
:23:53. > :23:56.of this is in our perceptions. Obama is still an amazing performer.
:23:56. > :23:59.He has to cope with the reality of a very difficult situation. He is
:23:59. > :24:05.in the same situation the Government is in here, he doesn't
:24:05. > :24:08.have any money to play with. He has an extremely difficult message to
:24:08. > :24:12.convey. America's also a long-term problem, can it maintain its place
:24:13. > :24:18.in the world? It's not surprising people find there is a gap between
:24:18. > :24:21.what they had hoped for and what America is able to deliver and he
:24:21. > :24:24.suffered -- he suffers from that. I still think he is in a commanding
:24:24. > :24:28.position. Favourite to win? remember in the last general
:24:28. > :24:31.election the Conservatives were saying to me if we - to get a
:24:31. > :24:37.majority everything has to go right. We have to win in all the different
:24:37. > :24:41.battle ground ground constituencies. The same is now true of Mitt Romney.
:24:41. > :24:44.Yes, he could win, but if you look at how he might go over the margin
:24:44. > :24:49.in an electoral college system which is based on winning each
:24:49. > :24:53.state, he has to win a marginal states to get past and to win them
:24:53. > :24:56.all in order to win. I think that's unlikely to happen T might, he is
:24:56. > :25:02.definitely in a position to win but I think he is very much the
:25:02. > :25:07.underdog, Mitt Romney. Always when American elections come around in
:25:07. > :25:11.the primary season and election in the the States, we are looking for
:25:11. > :25:19.lessons in Britain, what things we would take and wouldn't take. I am
:25:19. > :25:25.beginning to wonder if American politics are not so different now.
:25:25. > :25:29.We have always overemphasised it. We are different electorates and
:25:29. > :25:36.tend to assume there must be lessons for the Democrats for
:25:36. > :25:40.Labour. The lesson is from combatant to incumbent. There is a
:25:40. > :25:44.message for Cameron, if you hit 2015, not having achieved what you
:25:44. > :25:47.said you were going to, you haven't dealt with the deficit, you are not
:25:47. > :25:51.back to recovery you need a better message than bear with me. If there
:25:51. > :25:56.is a lesson here for Labour, it would be that was a speech very
:25:56. > :25:59.rich on values but you can't eat a value. It's possible that if
:25:59. > :26:02.Americans what are really looking for is a President that creates
:26:02. > :26:06.jobs, there was little in that speech about how it would happen
:26:06. > :26:09.and more in the Mitt Romney speech about how that would happen.
:26:09. > :26:12.Today's Republican party is different from today's British
:26:12. > :26:15.Conservative Party that I suspect a lot of of Conservatives aren't too
:26:15. > :26:20.bothered whether it's a Democrat in the White House or a Republican now,
:26:20. > :26:23.is that true? I think it is true. Some people are. It would cause
:26:23. > :26:28.quite a lot of trouble for the Conservative Party if Mitt Romney
:26:28. > :26:33.were to win, because it - having a Republican foreign policy and
:26:33. > :26:36.Republican economic policy would really destablise the coalition. I
:26:36. > :26:41.suspect it's a headache they could do without. I don't think this
:26:41. > :26:43.Government is going to get itself involved but in previous years
:26:44. > :26:46.Conservative administrations have wanted the Republican candidate to
:26:46. > :26:51.win, thought it would be easier to forge a relationship, I bet it
:26:51. > :26:57.isn't true now. Interesting. They won't be going across to campaign?
:26:57. > :27:07.You know, apart from anything else, President Obama is as Bill Clinton
:27:07. > :27:11.
:27:11. > :27:17.was, nuralic about a British British contribution. Continuity.
:27:17. > :27:20.You got that in 2008. There was more enthusiasm for Obama then.
:27:20. > :27:22.shall see, we have to November 6th to find out. The campaign is
:27:23. > :27:32.getting under way across the Atlantic. I am going across today
:27:33. > :27:34.
:27:34. > :27:38.to see how it's going. We will report back. Now, these are
:27:38. > :27:41.exciting times for the Greens. Not only did they elect their new
:27:41. > :27:44.leader earlier this week but they also start their party conference
:27:44. > :27:46.today with speeches from Natalie Bennett - she's the new leader in
:27:46. > :27:50.question - and her predecessor Caroline Lucas. It's two leaders
:27:50. > :27:52.for the price of one! As you can imagine, the excitement is at fever
:27:52. > :27:56.pitch down in Bristol and our political correspondent Chris Mason
:27:56. > :28:00.joins us from there now. Over to you, Chris.
:28:00. > :28:04.Yes, hello, Andrew, from a sun- drenched Bristol. It's a different
:28:04. > :28:07.feel a Green Party conference, this is the Green Party of England and
:28:07. > :28:11.Wales meeting here for the next couple of days. There aren't the
:28:11. > :28:15.big security men wearing that trademark severe expression. There
:28:15. > :28:20.isn't the airport-style security. Instead, activists going around
:28:20. > :28:22.with posters and bits of blue tack and shoving them up on the wall and
:28:22. > :28:26.welcoming you in. I was even sitting in a room earlier trying to
:28:26. > :28:30.get a signal on my computer right next to the Green Party leader, the
:28:30. > :28:32.new leader, putting finishing touches to her speech. I don't
:28:32. > :28:34.think we will get that access in a couple of weeks when the
:28:34. > :28:39.Conservatives and Labour and Liberal Democrats get together.
:28:39. > :28:43.Let's have a chat with Darren Johnson, veteran Green I think we
:28:43. > :28:49.can call him. Thank you for your time, Darren. What's the big pitch
:28:49. > :28:52.here? I get the sense we have seen the Tkpwroepb posters -- Green
:28:52. > :28:55.posters and reference to the party but the tone seems to be about more
:28:55. > :28:58.than just Green things? It is absolutely more than just the
:28:59. > :29:03.environmental agenda and we really are on the up as a party,
:29:03. > :29:09.particularly since Caroline Lucas made her massive breakthrough
:29:09. > :29:13.parliament and and in the London elections we came in third, ahead
:29:13. > :29:16.of the Liberal Democrats. We really are making that move now into the
:29:16. > :29:22.mainstream. It is obviously more about the environment. We have
:29:22. > :29:26.clear policies on creating a fairer Britain, we are looking at motions
:29:26. > :29:30.this weekend on tackling long hours culture that we have in the
:29:30. > :29:36.workplace, those things. A real concentration on a fairer, as well
:29:36. > :29:40.as Greener Britain. You say you are progress but still the UK
:29:40. > :29:43.Independence Party have Minister MEPs and around Europe your sister
:29:43. > :29:46.parties, not just in Europe but broadly around the world, do better.
:29:46. > :29:49.Where are you getting it wrong? found is when elections are held
:29:49. > :29:53.under proportion al representation we are getting the same sort of
:29:54. > :29:57.results as they do get in European parties. It has been more difficult
:29:57. > :29:59.under first-past-the-post but we have made that breakthrough now.
:29:59. > :30:02.Caroline Lucas getting elected to parliament was a massive
:30:02. > :30:07.achievement and we do obviously want to see more Green MPs joining
:30:07. > :30:10.her but we are also seeing more Green counsellors getting elected
:30:10. > :30:15.in chambers, making a difference in their local communities. A quick
:30:15. > :30:19.thought about the leadership. Your party for years and years had
:30:19. > :30:23.principle speakers, no single solo leader, lots of speakers. You
:30:23. > :30:27.stkeufped -- ditched that model because you felt you had to have a
:30:27. > :30:37.figurehead and now you have your most prominent Green in Westminster
:30:37. > :30:42.and a separate leader, is that a I think it is a good idea to spread
:30:42. > :30:46.the word -- workload out. Caroline has issued responsibility as the
:30:46. > :30:50.Green voice in Parliament and as a constituency MP in Brighton, so it
:30:50. > :30:54.was right to bring new faces in and I think it is fantastic we will
:30:54. > :30:58.have not only Caroline but Natalie as party leader, here I am sure
:30:58. > :31:04.will be putting a very strong message across about a greener and
:31:04. > :31:08.fairer future. Darren Johnson, a member of the London assembly for
:31:08. > :31:12.the Green Party. We will get, as you say, two leader speeches for
:31:12. > :31:17.the price of one. Caroline Lucas first and then Natalie Bennett a
:31:17. > :31:21.little after that. Live coverage on the BBC News Channel. As with any
:31:21. > :31:26.party conference, a diverse array of fringe events. We have spotted
:31:26. > :31:30.something tomorrow night, Dragon sexing for beginners, 8pm in Room
:31:30. > :31:34.15 if you are free. I am free, but you be careful, the
:31:34. > :31:37.sun is shining and it will go to your head.
:31:37. > :31:41.So, the Greens have got the conference season going and the TUC
:31:41. > :31:44.are next up with their get-together over the weekend. One of the items
:31:44. > :31:47.up for discussion will be the time trade union reps spend on union
:31:47. > :31:52.business while working in the public sector. Today sees the close
:31:52. > :31:55.of the Cabinet Office's consultation on the practice. This
:31:55. > :31:58.is what's at stake. Union representatives in the civil
:31:58. > :32:01.service are currently allowed paid time off work, known as facility
:32:01. > :32:03.time, to conduct union business. The Government announced a
:32:03. > :32:11.consultation into the practice last November, as the Cabinet office
:32:11. > :32:13.claim it currently costs the taxpayer around �36 million a year.
:32:13. > :32:16.Their figures show there are almost 7,000 trade union representatives
:32:16. > :32:23.working across the Civil Service taking paid time off to work on
:32:23. > :32:27.union activities. And they say approximately 250 of them spend
:32:28. > :32:30.100% of their working week on union business. When he launched the
:32:30. > :32:40.consultation, the Minister for the Cabinet Office, Francis Maude,
:32:40. > :32:45.
:32:45. > :32:48.But the TUC disagree and say no consideration is being taken into
:32:48. > :32:58.what benefits might be gained by the taxpayer and wider public from
:32:58. > :32:58.
:32:58. > :33:01.supporting the work of trade union representatives. Well, we're joined
:33:01. > :33:03.now by Paul Novak, head of operations and services at the TUC,
:33:03. > :33:10.and by Matthew Sinclair, chief executive of the Taxpayers'
:33:10. > :33:14.Alliance, who have been campaigning on this issue.
:33:14. > :33:20.Campaigning to get rid of these full-time representatives. Paul, in
:33:20. > :33:25.these tough times, can we really afford to have 6,800 trade union
:33:25. > :33:33.representatives at a cost of 30 odd million pounds.? I would argue that
:33:33. > :33:36.in these tough times, we can't afford to be without it., in the
:33:36. > :33:46.Civil Service and across the public sector. It is important to note
:33:46. > :33:47.
:33:47. > :33:52.that this facility time timings are not exclusive. Bizarre arrangements
:33:52. > :33:56.that benefit staff, they benefit employers, -- these are. They help
:33:56. > :34:00.work places run more smoothly and help improve productivity and
:34:00. > :34:03.reduce absenteeism. How many trade union representatives get
:34:03. > :34:10.substantial facility time in the private sector? It really depends
:34:10. > :34:13.on the private sector employer. you go into a larger automotive
:34:13. > :34:16.plant, a large distribution centre or a large unionised call centre,
:34:16. > :34:21.you will often find full-time trade union representatives, there will
:34:21. > :34:26.be thousands across the country is. And whether they are working full-
:34:26. > :34:28.time or as part of their normal duties, it is a valuable service to
:34:28. > :34:33.support those they work alongside and it is all done by voluntary
:34:33. > :34:38.agreements between Pires, public or private sector, and unions and the
:34:38. > :34:44.people they represent -- between employers. So it is part of the
:34:44. > :34:48.modern relations than the private sector? Not really. Facility time
:34:48. > :34:52.is massively concentrated in the public sector and there is a legal
:34:52. > :34:57.right to some facility time, reasonable paid time for very
:34:57. > :34:59.specific duties, and unpaid time for a wider range of activities,
:34:59. > :35:04.but when you have staff working full-time, there is no judgment
:35:04. > :35:08.being made over the extent to which the tasks they are doing of
:35:08. > :35:14.reasonable, or to fit within the kind of duties where they should be
:35:14. > :35:19.taking paid time, and that is particularly the case when, as many
:35:19. > :35:22.public sector employers have told us in response to how much time
:35:22. > :35:26.they are allocating, they do not even know how much time has been
:35:26. > :35:31.given. It is public sector employers increasingly who do not
:35:31. > :35:35.pick up the Bill, it is the taxpayer, and they are giving away
:35:35. > :35:40.time to trade unions so that they have a massive activist based paid
:35:40. > :35:44.for by the taxpayer, who has to pick up the Bill if the activist
:35:44. > :35:47.base succeed. That is not the case, around a quarter of our
:35:48. > :35:52.representatives in the public sector gets no time off paid at all
:35:52. > :35:55.and carry out duties inerrant time. The TaxPayers' Alliance only ever
:35:55. > :36:01.focuses on the cost of facility time, they never talk about the
:36:01. > :36:06.benefits. We estimate for every �1 per taxpayer spends on facility
:36:06. > :36:11.time, it generates a. -- positive return of between �3.90 pounds.
:36:11. > :36:19.is saying we are quids in. Look at the private sector, far more
:36:19. > :36:22.facility time, there are more strikes, better pay and better
:36:22. > :36:27.pensions and the public sector, yet those workers are striking as much
:36:27. > :36:31.as nine times as much per worker, so how are they building better
:36:31. > :36:37.working... If more union staff were the answer to the public sector are
:36:37. > :36:45.being a glorious Wonderland, but This is a politically driven
:36:45. > :36:49.analysis. If it is the reality. is not rooted in the reality of
:36:49. > :36:52.what happens in public and private sector workplaces. Three years ago,
:36:52. > :36:56.the CBI have represented large employers up and down the country
:36:56. > :37:00.and signed a joint statement with the TUC and the then Business
:37:00. > :37:04.Secretary extolling the positive role that union representatives
:37:04. > :37:08.made to work places up and down the country. If the TaxPayers' Alliance
:37:08. > :37:12.spent some time in work players -- workplace is talking to employers
:37:12. > :37:16.and people who make decisions about facility time, we have would have a
:37:16. > :37:20.different answer. This is partly why the Tax Payers Alliance
:37:20. > :37:24.campaign... Why do you want to happen? We think the unions should
:37:24. > :37:28.pay for their own access. Time off when they needed but when they are
:37:28. > :37:34.working for the union, they'd be paid by the union but we think at
:37:34. > :37:37.least the existing rules should be properly enforced so a union has to
:37:37. > :37:41.request time off and if it is for the right kind of duty, they get
:37:41. > :37:45.the time off they should get, as opposed to this cosy Willis injured
:37:45. > :37:49.when employers give us for -- give them full time or don't even
:37:49. > :37:52.monitor it at all. That will be more burdensome and bureaucratic
:37:52. > :37:56.and time-consuming for public sector employers and employees
:37:56. > :38:01.alike. At the end of the day, I stress these are voluntary
:38:01. > :38:04.agreements that benefits not just union members. I can understand
:38:04. > :38:11.that when the private sector doesn't agree, it must clearly
:38:11. > :38:15.think it's too its advantage, but there will be a suspicion that in
:38:15. > :38:22.the public sector, those on the employees' side have no great
:38:22. > :38:27.incentive but to say yes, if you want time off a... A lot of people
:38:27. > :38:33.think it is a way of subsidising the unions. You have claimed on BT
:38:33. > :38:43.use it -- or the TUC has claimed that the economy gets back between
:38:43. > :38:45.
:38:45. > :38:49.�3.90 pounds that every �1 is spent -- �3 and �9. This was based on a
:38:49. > :38:53.study by the Department of Business for five years ago. Another big
:38:53. > :38:58.differences the reduced rate of employment tribunals. Unionised
:38:58. > :39:03.workplaces have half of the applications to imply that
:39:03. > :39:08.tribunals and -- employment tribunals, which are costly and
:39:08. > :39:11.time-consuming and if the employee has a good relationship with the
:39:11. > :39:15.employer, there is less likelihood that will happen and real savings
:39:15. > :39:19.to be had. It is important to listen to employers rather than
:39:19. > :39:22.people driven by politics. It is slightly different when the
:39:22. > :39:28.employer is the Government or the Civil Service. Where are you on
:39:28. > :39:34.this? It cannot be right with those statistics, otherwise everyone
:39:34. > :39:38.would go into it and make a fortune. If all 6 million workers were on
:39:38. > :39:40.full-time duties, you would have an argument, but it is they have
:39:40. > :39:46.relatively small amount of people and the cost of facility time works
:39:46. > :39:50.out as 25p per public sector worker per week. There was a moment when
:39:50. > :39:54.people are -- advocated closed shops and sounded as lucid as Judea
:39:54. > :39:59.and said it was a great benefit and now we all look back and think, did
:39:59. > :40:01.we really agree on that? This is the same issue, just to find the
:40:01. > :40:04.facts that Unison gives money to the Labour Party while taxpayers
:40:04. > :40:08.are paying for the Unison representative in the workplace is
:40:08. > :40:18.just ridiculous, and you will not win that argument. This is not
:40:18. > :40:23.about money, �36 million is peanuts A do you think that unions perform
:40:23. > :40:27.a useful function when they are not just a form in the employer of the
:40:27. > :40:32.-- in the side of the employer? Which side of the debate you come
:40:32. > :40:36.down on explains which side of this you stand on. The it is pretty
:40:37. > :40:40.clear which side the TaxPayers' Alliance are run. Let me ask you
:40:40. > :40:44.this. Do you think the Government is set to get you. You don't like
:40:44. > :40:48.this government, you have been going on strike against this
:40:48. > :40:52.government, and the unions have bankrolled the Labour Party, so is
:40:52. > :40:56.this a form of coalition or Conservative government revenge?
:40:56. > :41:02.There is a real danger that the consultation you refer to an ear
:41:02. > :41:06.was strained red meat to Tory backbenchers and is not rooted in
:41:06. > :41:11.reality -- throwing red meat. Of all of the economic problems this
:41:11. > :41:16.country faces and public finances, trade union facilities are not...
:41:16. > :41:19.If you have got ideology and the problem is... That people work for
:41:20. > :41:24.a fair deal. I don't want to pay for them, even if it is a small
:41:24. > :41:28.amount of money. I'd you expect in the Government, now it has this
:41:28. > :41:31.report, because you have been instrumental in putting this on the
:41:31. > :41:34.agenda, are you going to do something about this? They will do
:41:34. > :41:39.something, the question is whether they will do enough. That is always
:41:39. > :41:46.the question for. Who has been the biggest winner
:41:46. > :41:49.this Olympic summer? Usain? Mo? Jess? Well, what about Boris? The
:41:49. > :41:52.Mayor of London's profile has scaled new heights - literally -
:41:52. > :41:55.while we've been away and he's making the most of it, clashing
:41:55. > :41:58.with David Cameron on all sorts of things, from school playing fields
:41:58. > :42:01.to the third runway at Heathrow. But do voters see him as Prime
:42:01. > :42:06.Ministerial material? Adam has been to find out with the Daily Politics
:42:06. > :42:11.mood box. Can people see this guy ever
:42:11. > :42:15.becoming Prime Minister? We have brought the mood box and the balls
:42:15. > :42:18.to north London, where Boris Johnson lives, to find out. First
:42:18. > :42:24.of all, here is a reminder of what the Mayor of London has been up to
:42:24. > :42:28.this summer. In the uncertainty, rule out the
:42:28. > :42:33.third runway. We want to politicians Olympics.
:42:33. > :42:38.Released the wings. Into position. -- release the rings. I think he's
:42:38. > :42:44.a friendly man and a good I can't, so will I put that into yes? That
:42:44. > :42:50.will be a yes. And he has fallen over. He has got that sort of
:42:50. > :42:55.persona of a comedian rather than somebody to be taken seriously.
:42:55. > :43:02.would remind me too much of the George W Bush days, really, of a
:43:02. > :43:07.puppet been in charge. He has the brains, he is wildly popular, but
:43:07. > :43:15.that sort of popularity can very easily go like that. He it is like
:43:15. > :43:20.a young Boris Johnson and the current Boris Johnson.
:43:20. > :43:26.He is a toff. A we have got a top as a Prime Minister. A but he is
:43:26. > :43:31.more of a toff. Boris floods cycling, let's ask some cyclists?
:43:31. > :43:35.Boris Johnson for Prime Minister? think the bikes is excellent and
:43:35. > :43:40.wanting to encourage young people to get out and about, do more
:43:40. > :43:46.sports, encourage schools not to sell off their land. I saw him
:43:46. > :43:52.jogging along the canal. What sort of sign is that? He is not built
:43:52. > :43:57.for jogging, is he? A I think he would be a wicket Prime Minister. -
:43:57. > :44:01.- wicked Prime Minister. Boris, your neighbours in north London has
:44:01. > :44:04.spoken and it is pretty close, but a small majority cannot see you
:44:04. > :44:14.going into Number Ten Downing Street as Prime Minister. That is
:44:14. > :44:17.
:44:17. > :44:18.the verdict of the mood box, are as we like to call it the arca
:44:18. > :44:24.cintentia. Actually, Adam's Latin teacher has
:44:24. > :44:30.been on the phone to say he got that wrong. In Ancient Rome people
:44:31. > :44:37.used an "urna" to vote, not an "arca". So he should have said
:44:37. > :44:43."urna voci populi". He will now write that out of 100 times. Glad
:44:43. > :44:47.to have got that cleared up. Boris is clearly a life-force in British
:44:47. > :44:52.politics, a unique life-force, but is he too much of a buffoon to be
:44:52. > :44:55.Prime Minister? I am sure the metaphor has occurred before but
:44:55. > :44:59.that was literally a load of balls, and people don't know whether they
:44:59. > :45:03.want Boris Johnson to be Prime Minister and it is impossible to
:45:03. > :45:07.imagine what he would be like in that position, because that is so
:45:07. > :45:11.different from what he is doing at the moment. I think he is a very
:45:11. > :45:17.capable, intelligent person and I think he is also, ironically enough,
:45:17. > :45:21.on the Tory Left, and... He is positioning himself on the right.
:45:21. > :45:28.Not always, is that his position on the runways or school playing
:45:28. > :45:31.fields? On taxes are education? think he also said to me was when
:45:31. > :45:35.he was in Parliament and that is why he supported David Cameron in
:45:35. > :45:39.the first place, for party leader, and Ken Clarke before him, because
:45:39. > :45:45.that is where he comes from, so I think he is a politically very
:45:45. > :45:48.interesting figure and I am very probe him, but I also personally
:45:48. > :45:55.wonder whether been Prime Minister is something he would want all be
:45:55. > :45:59.Are you in any doubt he wants it? am. To start off with I wonder
:45:59. > :46:03.whether he can afford it. He would have to take a massive pay cut
:46:03. > :46:06.which even as mayor not wishing to do in the past. If you were
:46:06. > :46:10.ambitious, you would cut off your left arm to be Prime Minister.
:46:10. > :46:14.suppose the cynic in me says when moment comes to it, all this will
:46:14. > :46:18.go and he will probably seize on the chance, I guess, because people
:46:18. > :46:24.do. I think there is a degree of uncertainty in him, I think it's
:46:24. > :46:27.not just financial, I think I don't know how much he wants to do that
:46:27. > :46:30.24-7 intense scrutiny thing and also I don't know how much he he
:46:30. > :46:35.wants to be hated and that's what comes with being Prime Minister. At
:46:36. > :46:40.the moment everybody loves Boris, who wouldn't want to be the heir
:46:40. > :46:45.apparent forever? Everyone loves him and he is popular with everyone
:46:45. > :46:49.else, all that drains once you are in Number 10. Look at what happens
:46:49. > :46:54.to Nick Clegg to Clegg-mania and five minutes later you are one of
:46:54. > :47:02.them and your popularity drains away. Boris likes to be liked.
:47:02. > :47:06.watched them at the Olympics, one being cheered and one being booed.
:47:06. > :47:13.The difference is one is doing something fantastically pop already
:47:13. > :47:18.and one fantastically difficult. I agree with you, I think Boris would
:47:18. > :47:23.find that rather difficult. He does find saying no to things quite
:47:23. > :47:30.difficult. It's hard not to interpret a number of positions
:47:30. > :47:34.he's taken as positioning himself to make a run at Downing Street?
:47:34. > :47:38.He's certainly leaving the door open, shall we say. The meddling in
:47:38. > :47:41.the reshuffle was amazing, that's the moment of a Prime Minister's
:47:41. > :47:46.maximum authority, where you move your people, to have Boris Johnson
:47:46. > :47:53.popping up... The Olympics have put lead in his pencil. He also says
:47:53. > :47:58.what he thinks, which is part of his appeal actually. You think he
:47:58. > :48:02.blurts these things out off the top of his head, you you don't think
:48:02. > :48:08.it's calculated. How well do you know him. I have known him a long
:48:08. > :48:11.time. Nobody gets to know him that well, actually. That's a good point.
:48:11. > :48:15.But I think clearly he is an ambitious person and I am sure
:48:15. > :48:18.there is an element of calculation but probably that's behind the
:48:18. > :48:22.whole stance which is I am my own independent person, I am not going
:48:22. > :48:29.to accept anything and there's also slightly more than competitive
:48:29. > :48:37.relationship which goes back a long time with David. To that Slough
:48:37. > :48:39.comprehensive they both went to. Exactly. We will leave that there.
:48:40. > :48:42.Now, a programme focusing on the policy disasters, communication
:48:42. > :48:45.cock-ups and ministerial mishaps of coalition Government returns to our
:48:45. > :48:48.screens this week. No, I'm not talking about the Daily Politics
:48:48. > :48:52.but the new series of political satire The Thick Of It. In a moment
:48:52. > :48:57.we'll talk to one of the stars of the show, but first let's have a
:48:57. > :49:04.look at him in action. Human snowman is coming in now.
:49:04. > :49:07.Stewart! Great. If it isn't Raffles, the gentleman MP. Why are you two
:49:07. > :49:13.coming in together. We were married in Vegas, didn't you know, we are
:49:13. > :49:21.really happy. Meeting room now. Could you get someone to bring me
:49:21. > :49:25.some chai. Today's headline in font 72, Emma and I broke the fast this
:49:25. > :49:29.AM with the PM. It's a massive yes. Our playground initiative is going
:49:29. > :49:35.to be the standard-bearer for the network nation. It's a double,
:49:35. > :49:40.double win. Double win for both babies of the coalition. Terrific.
:49:40. > :49:43.Shall we do a Mexican wave around the table?
:49:44. > :49:49.And with us now is Vincent Franklin who plays PR guru Stewart Pearson
:49:49. > :49:52.in the show. Now, you are Steve Hilton? Lots of people have
:49:52. > :49:59.suggested I am Steve Hilton but I think I have spoken to enough
:49:59. > :50:02.lawyers to know that I am a little bit - he wears a cross between a
:50:03. > :50:06.short and trouser and we were filming outside Downing Street for
:50:06. > :50:11.this series and it's fairly scary how many men are wearing those
:50:11. > :50:15.ridiculous trousers and carrying a fold-up bicycle and go through
:50:15. > :50:20.those gates. It should be banned. It should certainly be discouraged,
:50:20. > :50:23.I am playing a character sort of like Steve, he is a contrast to
:50:23. > :50:26.Malcolm Tucker, the sweary face of enforcement and I am the new face,
:50:26. > :50:31.let's all imagine a better narrative but equally annoying, I
:50:31. > :50:34.am afraid. I would wonder with this coalition, there's so much material,
:50:34. > :50:37.where do you start? It's difficult, because you find you are trying to
:50:37. > :50:42.produce satire and realise they're writing their own much better than
:50:42. > :50:46.tkoubg it and to begin with it was tricky because the first year
:50:46. > :50:54.everyone seemed happy. We had a few insiders who told us what was going
:50:54. > :50:57.on and they were going it's a big love-in at the moment and luckily
:50:57. > :51:02.after - it started to go wrong and we could write it. What's really
:51:02. > :51:06.important is that it's not what we are doing is satire, but not sort
:51:06. > :51:11.of topical comedy so we are not reliant on tying into specific
:51:11. > :51:16.things happening in Government. It's much more about the stkaoeut
:51:16. > :51:20.the stkaoeut gist. That's why we don't get relegated to Dave if you
:51:20. > :51:25.were the news quiz programmes, jokes now on Dave are ten years out
:51:25. > :51:28.of date we are not interested in. This I hope in 20 years time people
:51:28. > :51:34.will go that's what it was like in the Earl lie years of the 21st
:51:34. > :51:38.century. Meryl Streep went to watch Prime Ministers questions as part
:51:38. > :51:41.of her preparation to play Margaret Thatcher. What did you do to
:51:41. > :51:45.prepare? We had fantastic writers to begin with so we have a lot of
:51:45. > :51:49.material. We have advisers to talk to us but always just about what we
:51:49. > :51:56.are doing wrong. Usually saying there is not enough spwaering --
:51:56. > :52:00.swearing, you need to swear more. I am doing a play at the moment in
:52:00. > :52:05.The National, set in the Callaghan period, for that we have been
:52:05. > :52:08.around the building and it's not the most helpful thing, it's
:52:08. > :52:11.helpful to watch a couple of people drinking more than they should and
:52:11. > :52:15.chatting and going they're actually human beings and the great thing
:52:15. > :52:19.about The Thick of It you see a lot of flawed human beings trying to do
:52:19. > :52:24.the right thing but usually in the wrong way. You are doing this play,
:52:24. > :52:29.which is set in 74 onwards when there was no Government really in
:52:29. > :52:33.charge and you are doing now The Thick of It and you are going to
:52:33. > :52:37.become a world expert on coalition governments. I think I am a kind of
:52:37. > :52:42.kiss of death, if I am in you know there's going to be a coalition. In
:52:42. > :52:46.the 70s, not a coalition, a kind of pact. There was a pact. But not a
:52:46. > :52:51.coalition. So there were no Liberals thankfully actually in a
:52:51. > :52:53.Ministerial post so we don't have the problems that poor old Minister
:52:53. > :52:59.in The Thick of It has of dealing with a Junior Minister from another
:52:59. > :53:06.party. You use words which we as journalists then take on and put
:53:06. > :53:10.into the political lexicon. Omni- shambles. You gave us that word,
:53:10. > :53:14.there was another word we can't really use, beginning with cluster.
:53:14. > :53:18.We are quietly disappointed with that really. Our idea is that The
:53:18. > :53:22.Thick of It is supposed to be satire, not an instruction manual.
:53:22. > :53:25.You are supposed to watch and go that's not the way to behave. We
:53:25. > :53:28.are increasingly - two are to three days after we shoot something we
:53:28. > :53:38.realise something more crazy has happened or something more
:53:38. > :53:42.
:53:43. > :53:48.ridiculous has been said. One episode and on Twitter there were
:53:48. > :53:51.serious commentators talking about it. It doesn't really mean anything.
:53:51. > :53:57.You throw the bait in and people take it. Mrs Thatcher once said to
:53:57. > :54:01.me that yes, Minister wasn't comedy, it was documentary. It was a really
:54:01. > :54:08.insight into how British Government works. Can you say that of The
:54:08. > :54:13.Thick of It? I worked... You have been on the inside. There's a lot.
:54:13. > :54:16.I talked to him before they did the first one and when we had meetings
:54:16. > :54:23.there was always someone hoovering, so you would have to do the
:54:23. > :54:26.hoovering during the day, that was there in one of the early episodes.
:54:26. > :54:33.During the 1997 general election we ended up with John Major's
:54:33. > :54:38.Government being opposed bay man in a white suit, you can't make these
:54:38. > :54:42.things up. Somehow they managed to do it. Often it's painfully close,
:54:42. > :54:45.particularly when people are trying to come up with new ideas. Anybody
:54:45. > :54:49.who's worked on a speech - my favourite was a policy on plastic
:54:49. > :54:53.bags. That pleased the Daily Mail. People really do come up with
:54:53. > :54:57.things like that. When you have no money to spend you have to find
:54:57. > :55:00.ways - you shuffle your cabinet, which is a great word to be using
:55:00. > :55:03.because it means something else in the outside world, I don't want to
:55:03. > :55:09.worry you, but having a shuffle can mean something different or perhaps
:55:09. > :55:15.similar. But then you get a situation where somebody who was
:55:15. > :55:18.the Culture Secretary, who criticised - wanted the NHS section
:55:18. > :55:23.removed from his opening ceremony, the ceremony happens, the Games are
:55:23. > :55:27.a success, he is promoted to be Health Secretary in charge of all
:55:27. > :55:31.those nurses and you go brilliant, there is an episode of The Thick of
:55:31. > :55:34.It all just done, prime viced. Scripted for you already. I have to
:55:34. > :55:39.say I am looking forward to the new series, I want to see how you
:55:40. > :55:45.tackle the coalition. It's a coalition that's funny, it's -
:55:45. > :55:49.there's that idea the comedy is always in the gaps. The difference
:55:49. > :55:53.between what the thick of it does brilliantly, is those small
:55:53. > :55:56.humiliations, those tiny aspects of protocol where you are kind of just
:55:56. > :56:01.remorselessly left in this position of haouplg indignity which is what
:56:01. > :56:06.coalition is all about. The Tory Minister is wonderful. You can just
:56:06. > :56:09.see. Half a dozen real Ministers could fit the bill. People go is it
:56:09. > :56:13.Ken Clarke. He suspect any one of those, but he is that. You are on
:56:13. > :56:23.BBC2. We are indeed. On Saturday night after the Proms, I think.
:56:23. > :56:28.Indeed. I know that because I have already set my recorder. 9 9.4 5.
:56:28. > :56:34.Seven parts in this series. After that's that's finished you still
:56:34. > :56:38.have time to go to The National and see This House. Running to December.
:56:39. > :56:48.I will wave to from you the gallery, the cheap seats. Time for our
:56:49. > :56:50.
:56:50. > :56:53.roundup of the last seven days of politics.
:56:53. > :56:59.Here's Susana Mendonsa with the week in 60 seconds. Who is out and
:56:59. > :57:04.who is still in. What job have you got? The faces and the speedy
:57:04. > :57:09.departures told the story, we hear some of the losers even shed tears.
:57:09. > :57:12.Have you got the Health Secretary job? Someone was happy. It's the
:57:12. > :57:16.biggest privilege of my life. I am incredibly honoured. But the
:57:16. > :57:22.musical chairs around this cabinet table sparked yet another row about
:57:22. > :57:27.Heathrow. Elsewhere, the Chancellor took up the role of Paralympic
:57:27. > :57:31.panto villain, booed at the Olympic Stadium, still smiling, George? You
:57:31. > :57:35.got to be so macho if you are the Labour leader, or not. Apparently
:57:35. > :57:40.he still has to bring in the coffee every morning. That's just how
:57:40. > :57:44.assertive and Butch the leader of the opposition really is. Mine is
:57:44. > :57:50.milk and three sugars, Ed. Axed Ministers are lining up for honours,
:57:50. > :57:56.even ousted Lib Dems are getting knighthoods. Yes, Sir isn't a bad
:57:56. > :58:00.consolation prize. Does nothing change in this
:58:00. > :58:04.country? You hand out knighthoods to Ministers that you want rid of.
:58:04. > :58:08.Nothing changes in reshuffles, you are always trying to find something.
:58:08. > :58:12.It was probably not a good idea to have a separate honours list just
:58:12. > :58:15.for sacked Ministers, it was bound to cause cause trouble. It's not
:58:15. > :58:20.the biggest issue in the world but it's still probably not a good idea.
:58:20. > :58:23.Didn't leave a good taste in the mouth. Not consistence with a
:58:23. > :58:27.Government saying you shouldn't reward failure. And we are all in
:58:27. > :58:31.this together. When is your knighthood coming? You think that's
:58:31. > :58:37.a reward for failure as well? It's nice being a guest on this
:58:37. > :58:41.programme! You may say that, I couldn't possibly comment.
:58:41. > :58:45.Immediately prompted, that thought. We are going to save up nigh
:58:45. > :58:53.knighthood, you can get them in the shops these days. We thank all our