:00:42. > :00:46.It will come to the Daily Politics. After the truth on Hillsborough,
:00:46. > :00:50.the real truth, or where now for the victims' families? Andy Burnham
:00:50. > :00:56.joins us to discuss the next stage in their fight for justice.
:00:56. > :01:01.It is time for a shock to the system according to the Defence
:01:01. > :01:06.Secretary, Liam Fox, he calls today for tax and welfare cuts to get the
:01:06. > :01:10.economy were moving. Just what the doctor ordered or bad medicine? --
:01:10. > :01:15.get the economy moving. We will discuss fresh calls today for a
:01:15. > :01:21.rethink on protecting foreign aid. And what would you call this? Big
:01:21. > :01:31.Ben? No. The clock tower? Know. The Elizabeth power? The right answer.
:01:31. > :01:32.We will discuss the rebrand and ask if the new name will stick. -- the
:01:32. > :01:38.Elizabeth Tower. All that in the next hour and with
:01:38. > :01:41.me for the duration, broadcaster and commentator, erstwhile
:01:41. > :01:45.political candidate Esther Rantzen. Welcome to the programme. Let's
:01:45. > :01:49.start with what has dominated the news for 24 hours, Hillsborough. We
:01:49. > :01:55.had a string of apologies yesterday after the publication of the report
:01:55. > :01:57.of the Hillsborough independent panel, including from the Prime
:01:57. > :02:01.Minister in the House of Commons but this morning we have had
:02:01. > :02:04.another one from Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, who was editor of
:02:04. > :02:10.the Spectator magazine and had published a controversial editorial
:02:10. > :02:16.which many people in Liverpool found highly offensive. This report
:02:16. > :02:22.lays to rest the false allegation was made at the time about the
:02:22. > :02:27.behaviour of those fans, and a repeat that I was very sorry in
:02:27. > :02:31.2004 or that the spectator did write an editorial that partially
:02:31. > :02:37.repeated those allegations. I apologise them and I apologise now.
:02:37. > :02:43.May I say that I hope that the families of the 96 victims will
:02:43. > :02:48.take some comfort to from this report and that they can reach some
:02:48. > :02:53.sort of closure. Boris Johnson apologising for an editorial he did
:02:53. > :02:57.not right but his editor -- as editor, he carries the can. For his
:02:57. > :03:00.new controversial day today with Jack Straw suggesting that the
:03:00. > :03:05.Thatcher government in power at the time of the tragedy created a
:03:05. > :03:09.culture of impunity around the police, contributing to the
:03:09. > :03:15.handling of the events in April of 1989. Let's listen to what he had
:03:15. > :03:19.to say. The Thatcher government, because they needed a police to be
:03:19. > :03:25.a partisan force, particularly for the miners' strike, created a
:03:25. > :03:28.culture of impunity in the police service and they really were immune
:03:28. > :03:36.from outside influences. They thought they could rule the roost
:03:36. > :03:39.and that is what we absolutely sock in South Yorkshire. Jack Straw
:03:39. > :03:44.speaking on Radio 4 this morning. Andy Burnham, who has been a
:03:44. > :03:49.leading campaigner over the Hillsborough business, joins us now.
:03:49. > :03:53.Welcome to the show. Do you agree with Jack Straw at Hillsborough can
:03:53. > :03:59.partly be explained by a culture of impunity among the South Yorkshire
:03:59. > :04:02.Police? I think there was a culture and society in the 1980s where
:04:02. > :04:06.certain groups were treated as second-class citizens and football
:04:06. > :04:10.supporters were in that category. There was a casual disregard for
:04:10. > :04:15.people's welfare and safety at football matches. Everything was
:04:15. > :04:19.seen through the prism of hooliganism. That bred a culture of
:04:19. > :04:23.negligence when it came to safety at football grounds, and sadly it
:04:23. > :04:27.is one of the reasons, as laid out in the report yesterday, that we
:04:27. > :04:31.saw so many terrible deaths. Jack Straw is blaming the Thatcher
:04:31. > :04:34.Government for creating this culture. In return, he is saying it
:04:34. > :04:38.was this culture of impunity that leads to what happened at
:04:38. > :04:42.Hillsborough. Do you agree? I think it was a time where there was not
:04:42. > :04:46.sufficient accountability. The police could do things and police -
:04:46. > :04:50.- people had no way of fighting back. I think at the time, the
:04:50. > :04:54.Government was very obsessed with the Football Supporters Bill, and
:04:54. > :04:59.it saw everything as an issue of hooliganism. So Jack Straw is
:04:59. > :05:02.right? I think the government of that time has questions to answer,
:05:02. > :05:06.but so to everybody. How did Parliament allows such an injustice
:05:06. > :05:11.to stand for so long and why did my own party not do more to help the
:05:11. > :05:15.families? I think everyone needs to look at themselves and ask
:05:15. > :05:19.questions about what they did or did not do and then we will get
:05:19. > :05:24.towards some reconciliation. I do not think today is the day to make
:05:24. > :05:28.it a party political point. A I'm glad you raised that. Was Mr Straw
:05:28. > :05:33.right, at a time when there is party political consensus, with a
:05:34. > :05:36.process started by you and other Labour MPs, continued by a
:05:36. > :05:39.Conservative-led government, leading to a statement by the Prime
:05:39. > :05:44.Minister preys on all sides, is it right to introduce party politics
:05:44. > :05:49.to this? I am not sure he is. saying the Thatcher government
:05:49. > :05:53.needed a police to be a partisan force! Let's not be shutting down
:05:53. > :05:57.the debate when the panel has issued this report. There are
:05:57. > :06:00.legitimate questions to be asked about the culture that existed in
:06:00. > :06:05.the police force and the way in which the government of the day
:06:05. > :06:07.handled it. Those are legitimate questions. Yes, the Prime Minister
:06:07. > :06:11.was outstanding in the House of Commons last night and I was at
:06:11. > :06:15.Liverpool last night, and we are not known for lavishing praise on
:06:15. > :06:18.Tory politicians but he was receiving great praise from the
:06:18. > :06:22.people of Liverpool and that is a good thing. But today, everyone has
:06:22. > :06:26.questions to answer and this process of accountability needs to
:06:26. > :06:30.start properly. If Jack Straw really thought that, rather than
:06:30. > :06:35.making a party political point this morning, why did he make such a
:06:35. > :06:39.mess of the investigation into Hillsborough? If he really thought
:06:39. > :06:45.that, why did he not do more to get to the bottom of it? You had 13
:06:45. > :06:49.years in power and if this is what you really thought... And yet Mr
:06:49. > :06:54.Straw came up with a milk and water report. One about the media?
:06:54. > :06:57.Everyone has questions to answer. - - what about the media. I said
:06:58. > :07:01.sorry to the people of Liverpool that they had to wait so long. They
:07:01. > :07:08.accepted what I have described as an establishment culpability, which
:07:08. > :07:13.I think the report was. How can that report have looked at the fact
:07:14. > :07:18.that 80 3:15pm cut-off, cruel and immoral, with no moral or medical
:07:18. > :07:21.legal justification could be put in place? The effect of it was that
:07:21. > :07:26.parents, for the first time yesterday, found out what happens
:07:26. > :07:32.to their children. How can any right-minded feeling person look at
:07:32. > :07:37.that original inquest and conclude that it was good enough? My mystery
:07:37. > :07:42.is this. Speaking as a professional broadcaster and journalist, the
:07:42. > :07:51.media were there, television was there. The press was there. There
:07:51. > :07:55.happened. How is it, with all of us present, you say that everyone has
:07:55. > :08:00.questions to answer, the media has huge questions to answer. How could
:08:01. > :08:05.we allow a cover-up to stand for 23 years? That is a question more for
:08:05. > :08:09.the media Andy Burnham. question is, how could Parliament
:08:09. > :08:15.and the media allies such an injustice on this scale, such a
:08:15. > :08:21.cover-up on this scale to carry on for so long? -- allow such an
:08:21. > :08:28.injustice. By set up a panel on the recommendation of a journalist who
:08:28. > :08:33.was looking at police statements. Back to the rational situation,
:08:33. > :08:37.there are issues from the Leveson Inquiry here. There are 96 family's
:08:37. > :08:43.year, like the Milly Dowler family, where in the moment of grief, the
:08:43. > :08:46.media run -- rode roughshod over them. They added pain to their pain.
:08:46. > :08:51.Liverpool has campaigned over this, but why did nobody will say,
:08:51. > :08:53.actually, they might have a point and why don't we do something to
:08:53. > :08:58.unlock the healthy culture of complicity between the police and
:08:58. > :09:02.the press? We did not and it leads to some of the later abuses in
:09:02. > :09:07.hacking and other things, in my view. What happens next? It happens
:09:07. > :09:11.22 years ago. How difficult would be to get criminal prosecutions?
:09:11. > :09:15.think it will be difficult. But they must be fully investigated.
:09:15. > :09:19.There has to be a full process of accountability. What sort of
:09:19. > :09:24.investigation should that be that would best lead to criminal
:09:24. > :09:28.prosecution of those involved in what was, essentially, a deception
:09:28. > :09:32.and the cover up? Yvette Cooper is writing to the Hon secretary today
:09:32. > :09:36.to ask her to lay out how this will now happen. There has to be a
:09:36. > :09:42.proper process. People have serious questions to answer. I would like
:09:42. > :09:45.to make the point, given the family's -- we have given the
:09:45. > :09:54.family's truth and now we want justice. We look at the inquest
:09:54. > :09:57.into V3 50 cut-off. -- 3:15pm cut- off. I will not rest until we
:09:57. > :10:01.overcome this verdict of accidental death. You could not conclude that
:10:01. > :10:06.it was accidental having read the report. I want an assurance that if
:10:06. > :10:10.we get a new inquest, it will receive all the evidence, not be
:10:10. > :10:15.amended statements, the original statements. The original statements
:10:15. > :10:19.that those police officers wrote. Do you know if the most senior
:10:19. > :10:27.people likely to be in the frame of this investigation, are they still
:10:27. > :10:31.live? Many people in the frame are still alive. I think they have very
:10:31. > :10:34.serious questions to answer. They need to explain either why they
:10:34. > :10:38.acted as they did, what they need to apologise and account for
:10:38. > :10:44.themselves. So there are some senior people, maybe some of them
:10:44. > :10:47.watching this programme, probably retired by now, they should be
:10:47. > :10:52.beginning to wonder, and they may be facing jail sentences of this
:10:52. > :10:59.process goes from Trust to justice. I cannot say what the appropriate
:10:59. > :11:05.action is? -- from truth to justice. I know that what they did was
:11:05. > :11:09.unacceptable. They have to account for themselves and the full force
:11:09. > :11:12.of the law should be brought to pass. Can anybody justify a police
:11:12. > :11:16.national computer check on the bodies of children lying in a
:11:16. > :11:20.football ground? It is just despicable on every level. There
:11:20. > :11:26.has to be accountability. The family's need it. We have had the
:11:26. > :11:28.truth and we are now waiting on the justice. Thank you very much. It is
:11:28. > :11:32.the 64,000 dollar question, actually that is not all that much
:11:32. > :11:37.money these days. It is a bigger question than that. What is the
:11:37. > :11:41.best way to restore growth to the economy? One man -- one man is Liam
:11:41. > :11:47.Fox, he has some ideas. He says that the economy needs a shot to
:11:47. > :11:51.the system in the form of immediate tax and welfare cuts. Dr Fox says
:11:51. > :11:54.that Capital Gains Tax, where people are charged when they sell
:11:54. > :11:58.assets on which they have made a profit, should be scrapped for
:11:58. > :12:01.three years, leading to money calling into Britain from fast-
:12:01. > :12:06.calling into Britain from fast- growing parts of Asia. -- money
:12:06. > :12:09.flowing. We should make it easier, he says, for businesses to fire and
:12:09. > :12:12.hire workers, and he says we know that works because it has worked
:12:12. > :12:16.that works because it has worked before. He says and paternity leave
:12:16. > :12:21.should be abolished as part of the agenda. Money could also be saved
:12:21. > :12:24.by withdrawing free TV licences and winter fuel payments for the
:12:24. > :12:28.better-off pensioners. Something that David Cameron has promised not
:12:29. > :12:34.to do. Earlier this week, Dr Fox was one
:12:34. > :12:37.of several Conservative MPs who launched a new group, called
:12:37. > :12:42.Conservative Voice, aiming to promote the virtues of the free-
:12:42. > :12:47.market, social mobility and a smaller state. Values which will
:12:47. > :12:50.help the party connect with voters help the party connect with voters
:12:50. > :12:55.and win the next election. So says Conservative voice. One of the MPs
:12:55. > :13:01.involved in the launch is Steve Barclay and he is here now with
:13:01. > :13:04.Stephen Williams. It is the battle of the Stephens. Steve Barclay, of
:13:04. > :13:07.why would CAS a gold chains -- a capital gains cut bring growth to
:13:07. > :13:13.the economy. We need to trade our way out of our economic
:13:13. > :13:16.difficulties and a key part of that is exports. But also getting money
:13:16. > :13:20.invested from abroad in the UK. And cutting Capital Gains Tax will make
:13:20. > :13:26.a big difference in terms of sending a signal to the world and
:13:26. > :13:31.encouraging people to invest in the UK. But why? I do not understand
:13:31. > :13:35.the mechanism. He only wants a holiday for three years. He won the
:13:35. > :13:39.Asians to bring their money in, invest, take the profit before the
:13:39. > :13:45.window ends, and golf. Liam has suggested that after three years,
:13:45. > :13:49.it will be at a lower rate. Send a signal. The Olympics has sent a
:13:49. > :13:53.positive message to the world but we need to go further and faster.
:13:53. > :13:57.What evidence do you have that the level of capital gains tax in any
:13:57. > :14:02.way inhibits investment in this country. You have just seen the
:14:02. > :14:08.Chinese to a �2 billion investment in our country, so where is the
:14:08. > :14:12.evidence? In part, the evidence is there for a look at the Blair years.
:14:12. > :14:15.Certain tax breaks were given and is have a very positive effect
:14:15. > :14:19.within sectors of the economy. And we have seen that if you look at
:14:19. > :14:23.the Laursen reforms, cutting tax can have an extremely positive
:14:23. > :14:27.impact. What we need to do is send out a message across the world that
:14:27. > :14:32.this is a country that people should be investing in and reducing
:14:32. > :14:36.Capital Gains Tax, having that single -- signal -- signal sent out
:14:36. > :14:42.would be the right message. Is it right that a rich Asian should pay
:14:42. > :14:45.a lower level of income tax than a hard-working doctor would pay?
:14:45. > :14:50.already have different rates of tax for different people. Do you think
:14:50. > :14:55.that is right? Unless you think you'll have one tax rate across all
:14:55. > :15:00.asset classes, it is inevitable. In the real-world, there will be
:15:00. > :15:06.different tax breaks. Are you in favour of the lower rate? I think
:15:06. > :15:10.it got pushed up to 28% from Vince Cable. It was, when we came in
:15:10. > :15:16.Capital Gains Tax was at 18%, lower than income tax and the basic rate
:15:16. > :15:20.of income tax. It is now 28%. It is still actually quite low in real
:15:20. > :15:23.terms but I think it is bizarre economics that Liam Fox, my
:15:23. > :15:27.constituency neighbour, is suggesting and maybe he does on
:15:27. > :15:31.notice that the Government is cutting corporation tax, up until
:15:31. > :15:39.2015. Most businesses looking at whether to invest in the UK or role
:15:39. > :15:46.in the UK will find it in the rate of business tax. Why not change the
:15:46. > :15:50.cut of business tax, when corporation tax would encourage
:15:50. > :16:00.companies coming here for the long- term to invest in Britain as has
:16:00. > :16:03.
:16:03. > :16:08.As a Conservative Cup I would like to see tax lowered wherever
:16:09. > :16:13.possible. In four years' time, as a country, we will we spending �61
:16:13. > :16:20.billion more a year them we are officio. The need to look at all
:16:20. > :16:25.the options. -- than we are this year. That is why we need to trade
:16:25. > :16:33.away out of the difficulties. Part of that is getting exports moving.
:16:33. > :16:37.There has been progress in certain areas like corporation tax. Since
:16:37. > :16:44.you raised capital gains tax. It was a Lib Dem initiative. Can you
:16:44. > :16:51.tell us what has happened to those revenues? I cannot off the top of
:16:51. > :16:57.my head. The honest answer is, it is probably too early to save.
:16:57. > :17:03.is what the Chinese leader said about the French Revolution. You do
:17:03. > :17:08.need two or three years to assess it. There is a lot of academic
:17:08. > :17:13.literature on this. When corporation tax gets above the mid-
:17:13. > :17:20.20s, it starts to have a negative return. It is difficult to know
:17:20. > :17:25.where to strike the balance. There are other get out clauses. It is to
:17:25. > :17:33.encourage entrepreneurs to take a risk with their own money to invest
:17:33. > :17:39.in the United Kingdom. I do not want punitive rates. To put it into
:17:39. > :17:47.context, it will cost �3.7 billion a year. That is what we spend in
:17:47. > :17:54.overseas aid. This is a double achievement. It would send a very
:17:54. > :18:00.positive investment. You want to cut overseas aid? I am not saying
:18:00. > :18:08.that battle. These figures become so large that people lose context.
:18:08. > :18:12.-- and that at all. That is true. I have no idea what a trillion is the
:18:12. > :18:22.star of David Cameron made a strong point saying, they will not
:18:22. > :18:24.
:18:24. > :18:29.withdraw these universal benefits. -- bought a trillion is. You want
:18:29. > :18:34.to get rid of that. You got elected saying you would not do it. There a
:18:34. > :18:40.two different issues. We're trying to rebuild the economy and rebuild
:18:40. > :18:44.trust in politics. If you look at it in purely economic terms, it is
:18:44. > :18:47.difficult to defend when someone in Spain gets the winter fuel
:18:47. > :18:53.allowance for someone on a six figure salary - or someone who is
:18:53. > :18:58.very wealthy - gets a universal benefit. From an economic viewpoint,
:18:58. > :19:07.it is difficult to defend. It is not that simplistic. There was a
:19:07. > :19:13.wider issue of trust. It is difficult... It would mean breaking
:19:13. > :19:18.your word. We have to be more honest about this in politics.
:19:18. > :19:22.do you think? Should all pensioners get these benefits? I am
:19:22. > :19:27.uncomfortable getting a winter fuel allowance. There are people who
:19:27. > :19:32.give it to charity. There are ways of doing that. I am interested in
:19:32. > :19:37.how you intend having, for a very brief period being a candidate in
:19:37. > :19:41.elections, I know how difficult it is getting the message across. How
:19:41. > :19:45.were you persuade people to vote for you if you are going to say,
:19:45. > :19:51.we're going to make rich people richer and little old people will
:19:51. > :19:56.have to give up their money? key is getting jobs and getting
:19:56. > :20:00.prosperity into the economy. The benefit of capital gains tax is to
:20:00. > :20:04.get a entrepreneurs investing in the UK, which creates jobs and
:20:04. > :20:09.business is growing. The beneficiaries of that are people
:20:09. > :20:14.like my constituents, who will benefit from the jobs from that. As
:20:14. > :20:20.you know, there is plenty of money around. There are people with
:20:20. > :20:24.assets but they are not investing. How do we encourage them to invest?
:20:24. > :20:34.A Lib Dem perspective on cutting the benefits for better-off
:20:34. > :20:44.pensioners. I do not see any particular attraction in doing that.
:20:44. > :20:46.
:20:46. > :20:53.Why should she get a free life -- licence? I do not. I am too young.
:20:53. > :21:01.She is weight under 75. I thought you got it at 55. -- way under.
:21:01. > :21:07.There ought to be a mechanism for people who feel they do not need it.
:21:07. > :21:11.It might be easier then clawing it back. On the bus pass, you might
:21:11. > :21:18.save the Duchess of Beaufort should not have it. It would be quite nice
:21:18. > :21:23.to see her on a bus. That is how we have a cohesive society. I do not
:21:23. > :21:29.even know what she looks like. could have been sitting beside you.
:21:29. > :21:37.When we last on a bus? A couple of weeks ago. What do you think about
:21:37. > :21:42.the dramatic moves off with join paternity leave altogether? No.
:21:42. > :21:48.not do it. It is absolutely crucial for a new man to have a has been
:21:49. > :21:58.next to her during knows very difficult first weeks. -- a new mum
:21:58. > :22:08.to have a husband next to her. Conservative Voice is up and
:22:08. > :22:11.
:22:11. > :22:14.running now. You will get a knife on the way out free of pencil. --
:22:14. > :22:16.for your pencil. Now, if Liam Fox wasn't enough, the Chancellor has
:22:16. > :22:20.also been getting some advice from recently sacked Defence Minister
:22:20. > :22:28.Gerald Howarth. They start to say what they really think well of and
:22:28. > :22:31.not telling me what they really think on this programme. -- rather
:22:31. > :22:34.than not telling Mr Howarth has urged the Chancellor to resist
:22:34. > :22:37.further cuts to the Defence budget and look again at the Government's
:22:37. > :22:40.commitment to increasing spending on foreign aid. So, will Mr Osborne
:22:40. > :22:46.listen, and should he? Adam Fleming is in Central Lobby to see how Mr
:22:46. > :22:51.Howarth's suggestion has been greeted by MPs. The Government has
:22:51. > :22:57.a plan to, at some point for introduce legislation enshrining in
:22:57. > :23:03.law its pledge to spend 0.7% of the country's international income --
:23:03. > :23:08.national income on international aid. It is said that pledge should
:23:08. > :23:15.be abandoned and that money should go to the military instead. We have
:23:15. > :23:19.two MPs who are on the opposite end of the spectrum. We have Philip
:23:19. > :23:29.Davis the Conservative and Marco entries from the Labour Party. You
:23:29. > :23:29.
:23:29. > :23:34.must think it is a great idea? Haworth is absolutely right. How
:23:34. > :23:39.can we cut back on our armed forces? Cut back on all sorts of
:23:39. > :23:44.things that are worth well because we do not have enough money and yet
:23:44. > :23:53.spend too had an �80 million a year to India, who do not want it nor
:23:53. > :23:57.need it. This is gesture politics. Why not put the health service
:23:57. > :24:02.budget in law or the police service budget? The Government does not
:24:02. > :24:10.need to enshrine this in law. tried to pass your own bill to get
:24:10. > :24:17.it enshrined in law. What is your reaction? It is the same vault Tory
:24:17. > :24:23.Party. David Cameron wanted to detoxify the brand. -- the same old
:24:23. > :24:29.Tory Party. We have international obligations. Members of the United
:24:29. > :24:32.Nations, all of these members have this target of 0.7, which was
:24:32. > :24:38.introduced in 1970. They have still not been introduced by this
:24:38. > :24:42.government. This government is committed to introducing it by 2013.
:24:42. > :24:46.We talk about looking after poor people. This government has given a
:24:46. > :24:51.tax cut to millionaires and a cut in benefits for British people. We
:24:51. > :25:01.can give to poor people in this country as well as poor people
:25:01. > :25:05.abroad. Why that target? Apart from having that target, there is also
:25:05. > :25:10.an organisation which looks at the effectiveness of spending. It is
:25:10. > :25:16.about quantity and quality. It is important, as the 21st century
:25:16. > :25:21.nation that is leading the way many other ways, to get international
:25:21. > :25:26.respect. All three parties campaign on it and they should all support
:25:26. > :25:30.it. Let's talk about the politics. Justine Greening is the new
:25:30. > :25:37.International Development Secretary. Was she dropped the target? I do
:25:37. > :25:40.not know. She is an accountant and I hope she will put her accountancy
:25:40. > :25:47.had on the make sure we extract proper value for money and not to
:25:47. > :25:53.spend money for the sake of the spending it. -- her accountancy hat
:25:53. > :25:57.on and make sure. I think he might be shocked to find that the vast
:25:57. > :26:06.majority of his constituents think the amount of money going to India
:26:06. > :26:10.is ludicrous, as they do in mind. We believe in international
:26:10. > :26:14.development. We're not nationalists, we're internationalists. In the
:26:14. > :26:19.21st century, everyone on the planet should have a fair deal.
:26:19. > :26:25.That means dealing with major diseases and dealing with the
:26:25. > :26:31.eradication of poverty. What about this idea that AIDS is a form of
:26:31. > :26:35.soft power that helps us by friends and influence around the world?
:26:35. > :26:39.we are trying to alleviate poverty, let's focus money on that. If we
:26:39. > :26:43.want to buy influence around the world, let's put it into the
:26:43. > :26:47.foreign office and let them do their job. They are supposed to be
:26:47. > :26:50.putting money into alleviating terrible poverty. I do not have a
:26:50. > :26:54.problem with that. The international development budget is
:26:55. > :27:02.more than we can afford. We are having to borrow money to give two
:27:02. > :27:06.countries like India that do not need it. -- give it two countries.
:27:06. > :27:12.When you listen to ministers, they seemed quite keen on spending the
:27:12. > :27:18.money but not so keen on passing legislation to define how much. We
:27:18. > :27:20.have just seen why. A very interesting debate indeed. The
:27:20. > :27:23.Government has described it as one of society's unspoken tragedies.
:27:23. > :27:29.Loneliness affects around a million older people, with many having
:27:29. > :27:32.contact with friends or family less than once a week. As well as the
:27:32. > :27:36.social impact, it is thought loneliness can also lead to health
:27:36. > :27:46.problems. So, how do you stop older people from feeling lonely? We sent
:27:46. > :27:57.
:27:57. > :28:04.Susana to try a spot of quick step Meet Tom. He lives alone after his
:28:04. > :28:09.wife died four years ago. His stance Palmer has been a widow for
:28:09. > :28:16.20 years. -- dance partner. She does not see as much of her
:28:17. > :28:22.children as she used to now they're all grown up. It does not have the
:28:22. > :28:28.glitter of this Strictly ballroom but this tea dance does get them
:28:28. > :28:34.out and about. To come to a club like this, or any club, when there
:28:34. > :28:40.are lots of other people, I love people. A no time to be lonely.
:28:40. > :28:49.These people pile in every week for a chat, a cup of tea, and, of
:28:49. > :28:55.course, the Downs. The campaign to end Linnaeus shows -- to end
:28:55. > :29:05.loneliness shows half of all older people say television is their main
:29:05. > :29:05.
:29:05. > :29:10.company. A during the day, I walk, dance or go to clubs. Not day
:29:10. > :29:15.centres of things like that but, in the night-time. Because I have my
:29:15. > :29:19.television, it is OK. Sometimes I am alone and I want to talk to
:29:19. > :29:27.someone and a watch television and they cannot talk to anyone.
:29:27. > :29:34.have no idea. Having been married for 62 years, it makes you only.
:29:34. > :29:37.You have to get over it. No way can we stay at home, clipping all the
:29:37. > :29:47.time. The Department of Health says older people who are lonely are
:29:47. > :29:51.more likely to go into residential or nursing care only -- early. What
:29:51. > :29:56.is the answer a? The Government says it has given guidance to local
:29:56. > :30:01.councils to stop people from feeling isolated. The woman who
:30:01. > :30:07.started ChildLine says what is needed is a helpline specifically
:30:07. > :30:12.for older people. That is being piloted this autumn. Some here are
:30:12. > :30:18.not comfortable with the idea of that. I do not think, particularly,
:30:18. > :30:28.I would like to talk to a stranger. Not really. It is like talking to
:30:28. > :30:34.
:30:34. > :30:39.the Samaritans. Otherwise, I think Anyone answer is more cash in your
:30:39. > :30:43.pension. The St Anns costs 350 -- �3.50, and these people say that
:30:43. > :30:47.having enough money to go out allows them to avoid feeling lonely.
:30:47. > :30:52.When I was on Tomorrow's World, it was an achievement to be able to
:30:52. > :30:56.walk and talk at the same time, but on a Daily Politics, we can dance
:30:56. > :31:00.and two pieces to camera at the same time. How about that? We are
:31:00. > :31:06.joined by Paul Burstow, the Lib Dem MP who was until last week's
:31:06. > :31:09.reshuffle in minister at the Department of Health. -- a minister.
:31:09. > :31:15.You have a new initiative, tell us about that. It addresses the
:31:15. > :31:19.loneliness issue. There is a real stigma attached to loneliness,
:31:19. > :31:23.particularly in that generation, which is just a tiny bit ahead of
:31:23. > :31:28.me. I and 72, and they know about loneliness because I have
:31:28. > :31:33.experienced it. Those who were bereaved, whose family grows up and
:31:33. > :31:38.moves away, instead of being the centre of people who depend on you,
:31:38. > :31:43.and a company you in the evening, they have the room lights to leave
:31:43. > :31:46.-- they have their own lives to lead. One I wrote a piece about
:31:46. > :31:50.being lonely, a friend of mine said how could you write such a thing,
:31:50. > :31:56.have you not got too much pride? That is what made me realise about
:31:56. > :31:59.the stigma. If it is a stigma of abuse, and it is happening to
:31:59. > :32:05.children, Childline has told us that a helpline can liberate them
:32:05. > :32:12.because they can talk to a stranger about it without feeling humiliated.
:32:12. > :32:16.I put to the voluntary sector the idea that the helpline might do the
:32:16. > :32:20.same thing for older people who are feeling lonely, and they
:32:20. > :32:25.unanimously said yes. We're going to piloted in the autumn and we're
:32:25. > :32:28.going to launch it next year. We have had a small but vital donation
:32:28. > :32:34.from the Department of Health. Thanks, Paul. And we're going to
:32:34. > :32:44.say it is an open agenda. You ring the silver line with any question
:32:44. > :32:47.you want, and we will direct you because the sector is full of
:32:47. > :32:53.helpful advice and good provision, but people do not know where to
:32:53. > :33:02.turn. 42% of people over 65 do not know where to turn for help. The
:33:02. > :33:05.campaign discovered that. The umbrella helpline will contain a
:33:05. > :33:10.bank of silver line friends who will make book calls on a regular
:33:10. > :33:13.basis to people who want to talk to somebody, maybe in the evening or
:33:13. > :33:19.whenever is convenient. And there are helplines around the country,
:33:19. > :33:23.and they really shot increased morale and self-esteem, the
:33:23. > :33:26.capacity to link back into things like the dancing. It really makes a
:33:26. > :33:32.quantifiable difference. The Government wants us to encourage
:33:32. > :33:35.this. Absolutely. The white paper we publish this year on reforming
:33:35. > :33:38.carer support, the first part of the document is about this
:33:38. > :33:44.challenge of loneliness. It is one of the hit-in issues of our society.
:33:44. > :33:54.It is a big killer. That is why the Department of Health has backed
:33:54. > :33:57.this. -- one of the hidden issues. Four men, particularly, once they
:33:57. > :34:01.leave work and their wife dies, their social network falls away. It
:34:01. > :34:05.is about making sure that those people who have needs to have
:34:05. > :34:10.social connections have them. And I think the silver line is a clever
:34:10. > :34:17.way to help people make use of the sources around them. What do you
:34:17. > :34:21.say to the lady on a report to says that she does not like the idea. I
:34:21. > :34:28.can hear my own mother or grandmother who said, "I don't like
:34:28. > :34:31.to talk to strangers". You have to be tactful about the way you lead
:34:31. > :34:36.people from the question that they were ringing to ask about, to
:34:36. > :34:39.reveal that they would actually like a silver line friend. Once the
:34:39. > :34:46.phone call has been made, you are not strangers any more. Having
:34:46. > :34:51.watched helplines run by ordination it's like Age UK, listening to them
:34:51. > :34:57.talk to callers, there are strangers are told. -- helplines
:34:58. > :35:02.run by organisations like Aids UK. They are friends, they have got
:35:02. > :35:05.over the state of. Old people are very independent-minded. They think,
:35:05. > :35:10.I don't want to call a helpline because I do not lead -- do not
:35:10. > :35:13.need help. The first thing to break down stick my is to get the issues
:35:13. > :35:17.out there. People do not understand -- need to understand why it is
:35:17. > :35:24.worth doing something about. I know you're piloting this issue at the
:35:24. > :35:28.moment. We are. In the longer run, if it works, and the figure
:35:28. > :35:33.probably will work, will it have to be funded? Would be a charitable
:35:33. > :35:37.initiative? Will you raised money for this? We are a registered
:35:37. > :35:40.charity. We are limited company. We have done all of those things and
:35:40. > :35:45.we will depend on public generosity and the occasional excellent
:35:45. > :35:51.minister who notices but this is a real problem and can be solved.
:35:51. > :35:54.Will the Government do a bit of pump-priming? Basically, we have
:35:54. > :35:58.put some money in. As a minister, I was keen to see that happen. We
:35:58. > :36:05.have seen what Esther Rantzen can do. I think she has a vision for
:36:05. > :36:07.solving this problem. It is part of the solution. We have heard in the
:36:07. > :36:10.Department of Health that older people who are lonely are more
:36:10. > :36:16.likely to have to go into residential or nursing care, which
:36:17. > :36:25.in the end means loneliness=extra costs. -- loneliness results in
:36:25. > :36:28.extra costs. I do not eat properly FIM by myself in the evening. I
:36:28. > :36:35.balance a bit of cheese on the biscuit. They it depends on the
:36:35. > :36:38.cheese! -- if I am by myself. advantage I have is that I have
:36:38. > :36:47.felt it and I have been there and I will admit it. I am not talking
:36:47. > :36:51.about these people. Old people feel things and I am them. I know how
:36:51. > :36:55.difficult it is to admit it and how difficult it is to make that first
:36:56. > :37:01.phone call. I'm sure that if we keep an open agenda, they can ring
:37:01. > :37:07.us for any reason. Word of mouth might work as well, if a friend
:37:07. > :37:10.does it. Why did they get rid of you? What have you done? It is not
:37:10. > :37:14.about what I have done but there are other talented Liberal
:37:14. > :37:18.Democrats who deserve a chance. Musical chairs. I suppose it means
:37:18. > :37:22.you have more time to come and speak to us. I have time to take
:37:22. > :37:28.forward things I care about. have time to be a trustee of a very
:37:29. > :37:32.good charity. There you go, it all happens. We have a range of coffee
:37:32. > :37:35.for the both of you afterwards. You're watching the Daily Politics.
:37:35. > :37:40.We have been joined by viewers recently in Scotland. They were
:37:40. > :37:45.watching Scotland's first ministers and they joined us in the middle of
:37:45. > :37:49.our discussions. It is a big day for the Culture Secretary, Maria
:37:49. > :37:55.Miller, taking questions in the chamber for the first time since
:37:55. > :37:58.getting the job. Here is a flavour of her first spell in the spotlight.
:37:58. > :38:02.The Leveson Inquiry offers a historic opportunity to tackle the
:38:03. > :38:05.long-standing problems of the lack of a proper come -- proper press
:38:05. > :38:11.complaints system and the concentration of media ownership.
:38:11. > :38:14.What we saw from the independent report yesterday, 20 years before
:38:14. > :38:19.her Milly Dowler, was the ugly spectacle of collusion between the
:38:19. > :38:25.police and some elements of the press, inflicting pain and misery
:38:25. > :38:28.on innocent people who are already suffering. Will she asked Lord
:38:28. > :38:34.Justice Leveson to look at the implications of this. She is right.
:38:34. > :38:38.The rights issues which have clear lead across to the reform -- report
:38:38. > :38:42.announced yesterday. At this point in time, I would like to make sure
:38:42. > :38:46.that we continue to focus on the importance of getting it right for
:38:46. > :38:50.the families involved, that that is our focus first and foremost at
:38:50. > :38:53.this point in time. I can say to her that we will be looking at that
:38:53. > :39:01.report in great detail to make sure that any necessary actions are
:39:01. > :39:06.taken. That was the new culture minister, Maria Miller, her first
:39:06. > :39:13.outing was with Steve Hewlett, I think. The presenter of The Media
:39:13. > :39:18.Show. Which you should never mess. Welcome. -- never miss. You have
:39:18. > :39:24.interviewed her? No, I have not. I would like to but I have not.
:39:24. > :39:28.have not had a chance? No. How did she do in the Commons? Fine, as far
:39:28. > :39:33.as it goes. I thought she was very confident and very few people know
:39:33. > :39:37.much about her, certainly in the media. But she is incredible,
:39:37. > :39:43.confident performer. The problem is we have not the foggiest idea what
:39:43. > :39:48.she thinks about anything. We have got to know what Jeremy Hunt
:39:48. > :39:52.believed in. We have no idea her attitude towards the Leveson
:39:52. > :39:56.Inquiry or the Murdochs. There are issues coming down the track. From
:39:56. > :40:04.the outset, this is an unusual brief because in the Westminster
:40:04. > :40:08.village, it is very low status. The department is down there somewhere,
:40:08. > :40:15.but in the world out here, with the rest of us, it is very public. It
:40:15. > :40:21.is sport and movies and TV and radio. It is culture, art, and all
:40:21. > :40:25.those things. There are issues coming down here. We have heard
:40:25. > :40:28.about the new broadband roll-out, and the new iPhone, which will be
:40:29. > :40:32.compatible with the new broadband network. They are the only people
:40:32. > :40:39.allowed to operate that, and that have the capacity. There is a
:40:39. > :40:49.competition issues behind this -- a competition issue behind this. Mido
:40:49. > :40:53.Yap ownership and plurality. -- media ownership and variety. The
:40:53. > :40:56.net has not been cast too wide. Many people think that David
:40:56. > :41:02.Cameron has rushed the decision. I'm glad to have raised that. It is
:41:02. > :41:06.a big agenda. But you have not spoken to Maria Miller and none of
:41:06. > :41:09.us have. But you have spoken to John Whittingdale, the influential
:41:09. > :41:14.Conservative MP who chairs the Culture Select Committee and did
:41:14. > :41:19.the interviews and investigations with the Murdochs. He has spoken to
:41:19. > :41:24.you about Leveson. What has he said? He says the remit was to wind.
:41:24. > :41:29.I think he thinks but he did not say this, that it was set up in a
:41:29. > :41:34.rush. -- the remit was too wide. I think he thinks it was not fully
:41:34. > :41:37.thought through. He was probably right. As a consequence, he thinks
:41:37. > :41:41.the things that provoked it, her phone hacking and police corruption
:41:41. > :41:45.and the cover-up, all of that, and what actually went wrong, as Chris
:41:45. > :41:53.Bryant said this morning, that has not be looked at yet. Because the
:41:53. > :41:56.legal action is ongoing. Leveson is to that point, it may not be worth
:41:56. > :42:00.doing. Whittingdale says, look, it has become an open house. Anyone
:42:00. > :42:04.with a grievance against the press, many of them justified, have had
:42:04. > :42:10.their say. Imagine you set up an inquiry into lawyers and said OK,
:42:10. > :42:14.come and have your say. There would be queues around the block. So of
:42:15. > :42:19.us only dream of something like that? --! I am prepared to share
:42:19. > :42:24.that inquiry. What you get with phone hacking, you're left with
:42:24. > :42:28.Page Three, which is an important and controversial issue but we have
:42:29. > :42:32.set up a judicial inquiry to look into it. There is brewing on the
:42:32. > :42:37.Tory benches, concern about where David Cameron might have got them
:42:37. > :42:41.too. Because when it comes to the implementation phase of whatever
:42:41. > :42:45.Leveson suggests, it is a hot potato. Because they are still very
:42:45. > :42:48.frightened. Parliament is very frightened of the press and that is
:42:48. > :42:58.why Leveson is so crucial. The press got to a stage when no one
:42:58. > :43:01.
:43:01. > :43:06.could question its power and the Bay Area... -- the Big Issue...
:43:06. > :43:09.Present company excepted. Privacy is a key area, and it lies behind
:43:10. > :43:14.much of a staff. It Leveson can get to a point where people have the
:43:14. > :43:19.right to privacy even if they if you grant... I will say that, even
:43:19. > :43:21.if you look at what is happening the courts, 18 months ago we are in
:43:21. > :43:25.the world of superinjunctions and no one can be named, not even the
:43:25. > :43:30.fact that a superinjunction exists can be mentioned. Since then, the
:43:30. > :43:34.course of balanced the right to freedom of speech with the right to
:43:34. > :43:42.privacy and just the other week, Steve McClaren, the former English
:43:42. > :43:46.manager was told to sling his hook whilst trying to prevent issues
:43:46. > :43:52.about his private life. This issue has been resolved in practice, case
:43:52. > :43:55.by case, by judges. I worry about anyone not withstanding Leveson's
:43:55. > :44:01.obvious talents, coming out with anything that sought to establish
:44:01. > :44:06.once and for all and absolutely -- in an absolute way, lines that
:44:06. > :44:12.cannot be crossed. You end up with figures of public interest, try to
:44:12. > :44:15.define the public interest in law, or in in -- or in any way that is
:44:15. > :44:22.not contingent on a case-by-case analysis, that puts us in an odd
:44:22. > :44:26.place. The judges are all over the place. One judges very tough on
:44:26. > :44:31.these issues, and there were stringent privacy rulings that came
:44:31. > :44:37.in. But now the most recent rulings show the judges taking a rather
:44:37. > :44:42.more liberal, permissive approach. At the basic way of thinking about
:44:42. > :44:47.it is shifting. It is being worked out case-by-case. In effect, people
:44:47. > :44:52.who deserve this and are entitled to it... I think everyone is
:44:52. > :44:57.entitled to it, even famous actors and people who are filmstar as.
:44:58. > :45:01.There was research on zoo animals, and if they're given no privacy, if
:45:01. > :45:05.the public can see everything they do, including reproductive
:45:05. > :45:11.practices and so on, they go barmy. That is why animals in zoos often
:45:11. > :45:17.go barmy. By most animals did not choose to put themselves in the zoo.
:45:17. > :45:21.-- but most animals. There is a flaw in de Zeeuw model? If somebody
:45:21. > :45:26.chooses to be an actor, that means they have to sweep their cars for
:45:26. > :45:29.bugs? I take your point. Can I say one more point about the new
:45:29. > :45:33.Secretary of State. One of her predecessors wrote something
:45:33. > :45:36.intelligent about this. The thing is, when you going to these jobs
:45:36. > :45:41.you need to establish the framework. You need an issue, something that
:45:41. > :45:44.is going to be your concern. Jeremy Hunt did it with local TV and not
:45:44. > :45:49.withstanding the endless rumpus over Murdoch and all the rest of it,
:45:49. > :45:53.he is still seen as the person who did local TV. We have no idea what
:45:53. > :45:56.Maria Miller is going to establish as her centrepiece. And I am
:45:56. > :46:02.tempted to think that in spite of all the controversial issues coming
:46:02. > :46:07.up, internet pornography, you name it, the Olympic legacy might be the
:46:07. > :46:10.one that they have to worry about most. Imagine this, having had huge
:46:10. > :46:15.success of the Olympics, if in 18 months' time, that legacy is seen
:46:15. > :46:20.to have been squandered in terms of school sports and childhood obesity,
:46:20. > :46:24.participation, volunteering. If that is seen to have been
:46:24. > :46:34.squandered, that will do a lot of damage. Maybe she will make that
:46:34. > :46:36.
:46:37. > :46:42.the thing she concentrates on. Do Yes. I always thought we were
:46:42. > :46:50.totally unbalanced. There are times when democracy gets unbalanced.
:46:50. > :46:58.Nobody dare take on a raid just things in the press and that was
:46:58. > :47:01.offensive. -- offensive things. There will be great pressure on the
:47:01. > :47:09.Prime Minister to immediately accept the recommendations of
:47:09. > :47:13.Leveson. I hope he will not. What he's saying is this is political
:47:13. > :47:18.dynamite. Labour are free and clear. They cannot do anything about it
:47:18. > :47:25.until the next election because they are not in office. They are
:47:25. > :47:29.striking are hard line in terms of statutory underpinning. Does David
:47:30. > :47:38.Miliband want to spend the 18 months in the run-up to the next
:47:38. > :47:44.election as the party trying to muzzle the press? Now, last week it
:47:45. > :47:49.was the Greens. We have had the TUC and now it is the time of Plaid
:47:49. > :47:52.Cymru. Members will be gathering in Brecon tomorrow for that and you
:47:52. > :47:58.will get together. Leanne Wood will be making her maiden conference
:47:58. > :48:04.speech as leader, having been elected in March. She joins us from
:48:04. > :48:09.Cardiff. What you hope to achieve that your leadership? I have said,
:48:09. > :48:15.it since I have been the leader of Plaid Cymru, that a once the
:48:15. > :48:22.economy to be my party central priority. -- that I want. We have
:48:23. > :48:27.to do everything we can to create jobs. People are feeling the
:48:27. > :48:32.squeeze. Cuts are being felt, particularly badly, in Wales. Many
:48:32. > :48:37.people are struggling to put food on the table and pay heating bills.
:48:37. > :48:42.Jobs have to be the priority. That has to be the central focus of my
:48:42. > :48:47.conference speech, when I deliver it tomorrow. On the economy, will
:48:47. > :48:54.you continue, under your leadership, to position Plaid Cymru to their
:48:54. > :48:59.left of the Labour Party on economic matters? -- to the left.
:48:59. > :49:03.In Wales, the centre of political gravity is to the left. The main
:49:03. > :49:07.focus for Plaid Cymru is to ensure that we can put together a
:49:07. > :49:13.programme of government that will speak to everyone in Wales. As they
:49:13. > :49:20.have already said, the cuts that Tara affecting us worse here, the
:49:21. > :49:27.public sector is bigger. -- that are affecting us. The economy has
:49:27. > :49:31.to be the top priorities. understanding is that the position
:49:31. > :49:36.of Plaid Cymru on independence is not as clear cut. The demand is not
:49:36. > :49:39.as immediate as the Scottish National position. The constitution
:49:39. > :49:44.is very much in the news at the moment because of what is happening
:49:44. > :49:48.in Scotland. Wales is a very different countries. We have made
:49:48. > :49:54.no secret about the fact that independence is something we strive
:49:54. > :49:59.for in the long term. At the moment, the economy is the issue that most
:49:59. > :50:05.people are deeply concerned about. Many young people are at the moment
:50:06. > :50:11.have no chance of a job weight- training place. Very many young
:50:11. > :50:15.people have very little hope for the future. -- or a training place.
:50:15. > :50:20.The need to provide hope for a generation of young people who
:50:20. > :50:24.deserve to have a future to look forward to. They will cease to have
:50:24. > :50:29.a huge, vibrant economy. It was built on the old dirty industries
:50:29. > :50:34.but it was a huge economic powerhouse. As the old industries
:50:34. > :50:38.have declined, Wales has become more and more independent on the
:50:38. > :50:42.public sector. It is a bigger public sector, as it is in the
:50:42. > :50:51.North of England and Scotland as well. I knew too dependent on the
:50:51. > :50:56.public sector? We need to do more to grow the private sector. -- are
:50:56. > :51:00.you too dependent? The business sector needs to become larger. I
:51:00. > :51:05.will be outlining a number of measures to improve the Welsh
:51:05. > :51:09.economy. One thing you could hear a lot of is a by a local campaign. We
:51:09. > :51:16.will try to encourage people to spend more money in local shops and
:51:16. > :51:24.businesses than in supermarkets, as a waiter tried to lock money in and
:51:24. > :51:28.encourage economic stimulation -- ate way to try to lock money in and
:51:28. > :51:32.encourage economic stimulation. There are a lot fewer companies
:51:32. > :51:39.setting up in wares at the moment. Our share of inward investment has
:51:39. > :51:45.gone Dang quite considerably. -- in Wales. Our economic Commission has
:51:45. > :51:50.come up with a report showing the Welsh economy has been in decline
:51:50. > :51:55.for more than 20 years. Rather than think about what various strategies
:51:55. > :51:59.we have been to do since the end of the Kohl era, we need some new
:51:59. > :52:03.thinking, to try to think of different ways of stimulating the
:52:03. > :52:10.economy. The central focus has to be job creation. We need a new deal
:52:10. > :52:15.for Wales. That is so we can build up resilience in the economy.
:52:15. > :52:20.the information age, often the brains of the people matter most of
:52:20. > :52:25.all. The quality of the education system matters most of all. We see
:52:25. > :52:30.that in Hong Kong and Singapore, or Finland and Sweden. There has been
:52:30. > :52:33.a lot of criticism recently of the Welsh school system. Some reports
:52:33. > :52:39.have been saying that exam results are not anywhere near as good as
:52:39. > :52:44.they should be. There is no doubt that Wales can do better in terms
:52:44. > :52:51.of education. We understand the importance of education. My family
:52:51. > :52:55.background is in mining. The miners give us libraries. The really to
:52:55. > :52:59.understand the importance of education and we need to up our
:52:59. > :53:04.game on up front. It is unacceptable that the numbers of
:53:04. > :53:10.young people of who leave school who cannot read and write. Literacy
:53:10. > :53:15.will be something we will advocate as part of our programme. Coming
:53:15. > :53:20.back to independence, we do except if the Scottish nationalists did
:53:20. > :53:27.get a referendum in 2014, and they call it upon the Scots to vote
:53:27. > :53:33.against independence - if they do - we just accept that would make the
:53:33. > :53:40.issue of Welsh independents dead for a generation or more? -- would
:53:40. > :53:50.you accept? Noah macro. Whatever the outcome of the Scottish
:53:50. > :53:50.
:53:51. > :53:56.referendum, the relationship will have to change. -- no. That needs
:53:56. > :54:01.to be done regardless of the outcome of the Scottish referendum.
:54:01. > :54:07.Surely the Busch regard themselves as more than equal. We regard
:54:07. > :54:12.ourselves as people at the moment. We're not getting an equal deal. In
:54:12. > :54:17.the future, we should have a more equal place. It is good to talk to
:54:17. > :54:25.you. Thank you for joining as. I hope the conference is interesting.
:54:25. > :54:28.Thank you very much. Now, Her Majesty's Royal ears must be
:54:28. > :54:31.burning at the moment, as yet more buildings are named after her. The
:54:31. > :54:34.Olympic Park will become the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park. And the
:54:34. > :54:37.clock tower at Westminster - that houses the famous Big Ben bell -
:54:37. > :54:47.will today be named the Elizabeth Tower, after MPs voted to change
:54:47. > :54:52.the name to mark the Queen's Diamond Jubilee. I've always wanted
:54:52. > :55:02.to send our reporters to the tower. Here's Adam with a view from the
:55:02. > :55:07.
:55:07. > :55:12.top. The world knows it as Big Ben. For 153 years, the official title
:55:12. > :55:19.was the clock tower. Yesterday it was renamed the Elizabeth Tower,
:55:19. > :55:25.after the Queen. I'm getting a VIP tour. First, health and safety.
:55:25. > :55:30.Strictly speaking, the Tessa -- the decibel level when the bell strikes
:55:30. > :55:37.is below the danger of health and safety level. We do give these
:55:37. > :55:41.little ear plugs, or ear defenders cut out to people. Let's be brave
:55:41. > :55:46.and leave them behind. I have the big industrial ones because I am up
:55:47. > :55:55.here three times a day. Then it is onwards and upwards and upwards
:55:56. > :56:00.some more. This is three had and 16 ft tall. We're nearly half way. --
:56:00. > :56:09.316 ft tall. You have to turn around. You can see the number of
:56:09. > :56:16.stairs you climb. 182. How many more to go? Crikey, just over 200
:56:16. > :56:21.Foster of beneath every great clock is a great big pendulum. -- just
:56:21. > :56:26.over 200. That pendulum is about four metres long. At the end of it,
:56:26. > :56:34.at the bottom of it, is a 400 lb great. That is what makes the
:56:34. > :56:41.pendulum swim -- swing - that weight. A bit more climbing and
:56:41. > :56:47.with bumps into a famous face. is the south-facing Clock Face
:56:47. > :56:51.which looks over Parliament. See the bracket above my head. That is
:56:51. > :56:58.the supporting mechanism for the minute hand. If you look to the
:56:58. > :57:03.left, you can see these lightbulbs. They liked the dials at night time.
:57:03. > :57:13.Finally, you cannot top this. Up close with the country's favourite
:57:13. > :57:13.
:57:13. > :57:18.L - Big Ben. It is so loud it broke our microphone. -- favourite Bell.
:57:18. > :57:22.Will the change of name make any difference? I do not think so. It
:57:22. > :57:29.will be renamed the Elizabeth Talbot we will still call it Big
:57:29. > :57:36.Ben. That is not Big Ben now. -- Elizabeth Tower. I am sure we will
:57:36. > :57:40.continue to call it Big Ben. Still, if she does ever come up here, she
:57:40. > :57:47.will get a lovely view of a power house. And the man behind the
:57:47. > :57:51.rebrand, Conservative MP Tobias Ellwood, joins us now. It can only
:57:51. > :57:57.be a matter of days before you knighthood is in the post will
:57:57. > :58:03.start I am delighted to see the name has been changed. -- in the
:58:03. > :58:08.post. The Victoria Tower is at the West End. It was originally called
:58:08. > :58:16.the King's Tower. It is a wonderful tribute to an amazing life. It is a
:58:16. > :58:22.reminder of what it is to be British. Isn't this a fact that we
:58:22. > :58:30.are all going to call it Big Ben custom up I hope that does not
:58:30. > :58:36.change. Sir Benjamin Hall put the belt up. It will be Elizabeth Tower.
:58:36. > :58:44.-- the bell. Do you want us to refer to it as the Elizabeth Tower?
:58:45. > :58:52.You can refer to both. The bell is Big Ben. Can I mention a problem?