:00:44. > :00:47.Good afternoon and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:47. > :00:55.Ed Balls says a Labour Government would review every single penny of
:00:55. > :00:58.Government spending. Could a Chancellor Balls really find cuts
:00:58. > :01:01.where Chancellor Osborne hasn't? Weak, that's the Public Accounts
:01:01. > :01:03.Committee verdict on the Department for Work and Pensions procedures
:01:03. > :01:12.after MPs examined allegations of fraud in government back to work
:01:12. > :01:16.schemes. Committee chairwoman Margaret Hodge joins us.
:01:16. > :01:20.And it's bail out fever in Europe with Spain on the brink and Greece
:01:20. > :01:25.looking for more help from Brussels. We'll ask Greek born economist
:01:25. > :01:33.Vicky Pryce what happens next. Remember this? At least I don't
:01:33. > :01:36.have to worry about her running off with the bloke next door!
:01:36. > :01:41.Unfortunately not all political jokes hit the spot like that one as
:01:41. > :01:47.Danny Alexander found out this week. We'll talk to the man who wrote
:01:47. > :01:57.Tony's joke about the golden rules of political gags. All that in the
:01:57. > :01:57.
:01:57. > :02:00.next hour. I'm Carol ex-Walker and Owen Jones and columnist and
:02:00. > :02:02.novelist Cristina Odone are here to keep me company throughout today's
:02:02. > :02:05.show. Let's start with Ed Balls. The Shadow Chancellor has announced
:02:05. > :02:07.that a Labour Government would review every penny of Government
:02:07. > :02:10.expenditure should it win back power after the next Election
:02:10. > :02:18.promising to be ruthless and disciplined as it conducted a zero-
:02:18. > :02:23.based spending review. Well let's talk about that. Eoin, I will start
:02:24. > :02:27.with you. What do you make of that? An incoming chancellor, he is not
:02:27. > :02:31.going to start cutting, he will start from the bottom and go
:02:31. > :02:34.through everything and every department? There is a problem.
:02:34. > :02:39.Different departments actually use different accounting rules so what
:02:39. > :02:43.is zero in one department doesn't mean the same in another department.
:02:43. > :02:45.It would be interesting to see how he would get around this. Labour
:02:45. > :02:55.haven't come up with an alternative alternative to what the
:02:55. > :02:59.Conservatives are doing and austerity sucked growth out of the
:02:59. > :03:05.economy and borrowing is surging as a result because tax receipts
:03:05. > :03:10.declined as the economy contracts. Instead of challenges the austerity,
:03:11. > :03:16.Labour aren't coming up with a coherent. They are coming up with
:03:16. > :03:20.their own version of austerity. I don't think people could
:03:20. > :03:27.distinguish that from what George Osborne is doing.
:03:27. > :03:31.They haven't said if they are going to stick to the A Rule total.
:03:31. > :03:35.Christine, what do you think? can't come up with an alternative
:03:35. > :03:38.to something that's so unpopularment people are saying,
:03:38. > :03:45."Austerity measures from the coalition, unlivable with. We
:03:45. > :03:51.cannot bear it. Let's look to Labour and nothing." Ed Balls is
:03:51. > :03:56.trying to scramble up up something that makes sense. What are we going
:03:56. > :04:00.to do for one year, we are going to be stalled whilst they review
:04:00. > :04:08.positions of each department. We're supposed to be fixing this economy
:04:08. > :04:12.now and I think a that one of the things that's really worries us is
:04:12. > :04:17.is Ed Balls saying, "Give us sometime when we get in.". He is
:04:17. > :04:21.saying he is going to go through it and unlike the present Government...
:04:21. > :04:24.Or like his own previous Government when he was an architect of our
:04:24. > :04:30.debts. He is going to have a look at what
:04:30. > :04:36.is in the best long-term interests of the country and do things item
:04:36. > :04:42.by item? He is going to get a grey beard before Balls fixes the
:04:42. > :04:47.economic situation. If he thinks this is how we are going to do it.
:04:47. > :04:52.The lack of coherence was emphasised when we heard in the
:04:52. > :05:02.same day that we have Balls saying we are going back to zero. We have
:05:02. > :05:08.Harriet Harman saying, "Oh, we are going to slow down talks." --
:05:08. > :05:18.cuts." Joined up Government, my foot. That's when you think Labour
:05:18. > :05:19.
:05:19. > :05:24.could be bold and come up with an alternative P. Spend loads more?
:05:24. > :05:28.That's what Harriet Harman was suggesting? Billions is being
:05:28. > :05:32.wasted on housing benefit. But that's lining the pockets of
:05:32. > :05:36.private landlords and not going into the pockets of the tenants.
:05:36. > :05:41.Labour could argue, let's bring down social housing which would
:05:41. > :05:46.stimulate the economy and create jobs. Take tax credits, billions
:05:46. > :05:52.spent on tax credits, but they are a subsidy for low pay. If we had a
:05:52. > :05:57.living wage, that would bring down the welfare spending.
:05:57. > :06:00.Briefly, Ed Balls is trying to send out a tough message at the start of
:06:00. > :06:05.the Labour Party Conference. Is that going to set the right tone?
:06:05. > :06:11.No. One of the funnyest things was the message that he sent out which
:06:11. > :06:15.was picked up by the Telegraph today. He is posing in front of a
:06:15. > :06:20.Winston Churchill photograph and a book by Martin Gilbert that's the
:06:20. > :06:26.biography of the big Prime Minister and he is so obviously chomping at
:06:26. > :06:32.the bit and trying to use this as a platform for his own political
:06:32. > :06:42.destiny. You think Ed Balls is on the move.
:06:42. > :06:46.
:06:46. > :06:49.That's a matter we will come back The Government says that private
:06:49. > :06:51.companies and charities about �900 million a year to help get
:06:52. > :06:54.unemployed people back into long- term jobs. But there have been
:06:54. > :06:56.widespread allegations of fraud in these welfare-to-work schemes and
:06:57. > :07:01.this morning a committee of MPs said ministers weren't doing enough
:07:01. > :07:04.to tackle the problem. The MPs said the Department for Work and
:07:04. > :07:14.Pensions had missed vital evidence about potential frauds, notably at
:07:14. > :07:14.
:07:14. > :07:17.the private provider A4E. In February, A4E founder Emma Harrison,
:07:17. > :07:19.who was also the Government's family champion, stood down amid
:07:19. > :07:22.allegations of wrongdoing and the firm, which is the Government's
:07:22. > :07:25.largest provider, is still the subject of a police investigation.
:07:25. > :07:28.But it said a recent audit had found no evidence of fraud and
:07:28. > :07:31.issued a statement saying that A4E is a very different company from
:07:31. > :07:34.the one it was two years ago. The committee chairman and Labour MP,
:07:34. > :07:39.Margaret Hodge, says that risks remain, adding that it is still
:07:39. > :07:42.possible for providers to be paid for work they haven't done. But the
:07:42. > :07:45.Work and Pensions Department said the cases of fraud referred to by
:07:45. > :07:48.the committee took place under schemes set up by Labour. The
:07:48. > :07:53.department said it had put in place the toughest anti-fraud measures
:07:53. > :07:56.ever included in a back to work scheme. I'm joined by the Chair of
:07:56. > :08:00.the Committee that produced the committee, the Labour MP, Margaret
:08:00. > :08:05.Hodge. Thank you very much for joining us.
:08:05. > :08:08.What do you think are the real problems here? The fraud has now
:08:08. > :08:12.been identified and is being addressed? We accept that the fraud
:08:12. > :08:15.we identified was on past schemes because we look at the past and not
:08:16. > :08:19.the present and the future. As we looked at the current structure, it
:08:19. > :08:28.is a better structure, but there are still problems. Let me give you
:08:28. > :08:37.an example. Somebody wrote to me that they had been referred, again
:08:37. > :08:42.to A4E and they found their own job before being referred to A4E. A4E
:08:42. > :08:46.rang them up and they said, "I don't need your help." The company
:08:46. > :08:50.said come in and sign and we will give you a �50 voucher and the
:08:50. > :09:00.company company collects up to �2,000 for that person. I had
:09:00. > :09:01.
:09:01. > :09:04.another case of another provider where a gentleman started his own
:09:04. > :09:07.business, was referred to a company. The company said, "Come in, show us
:09:07. > :09:09.your invoices and we will get you a grant for �2,000." He went in. Got
:09:09. > :09:12.his invoices. They got paid for finding him work which they hadn't
:09:12. > :09:17.done anything about, but he never got his grant. It didn't exist.
:09:17. > :09:19.As you said, these are problems that happened in the past... No, no,
:09:19. > :09:23.those are problems with the current scheme.
:09:23. > :09:27.The Government says it checks 100% of cases where individuals are in
:09:27. > :09:35.work. That's surely a big improvement on what was happening
:09:35. > :09:39.under the Labour Government? We are talking about fraud and malprabg
:09:39. > :09:43.and malpractice. It is a waste of public money. You don't pay a
:09:43. > :09:47.company if they haven't done the work. The second thing is the
:09:47. > :09:53.department asserts that it has got things right. Now this current
:09:53. > :09:59.programme has been going since June June 2011, we are now 15 months on
:09:59. > :10:01.and there is still not a statistic produced by the Government to
:10:01. > :10:04.demonstrate whether or not they are meeting the objectives.
:10:04. > :10:07.You would acknowledge they have tightened up their procedures and
:10:07. > :10:11.their checks considerably since the days when the Labour Government was
:10:11. > :10:15.using similar contracts? I think they have tightened up their
:10:15. > :10:18.procedures and checks. I think there are still risks and I really
:10:18. > :10:23.do believe that the fact that they are not producing statistics leaves
:10:23. > :10:27.you with a worry and a concern that the programme is either not meeting
:10:27. > :10:31.its objectives which is a �5 billion programme, to get over
:10:31. > :10:36.three million people into work. Not meeting its objectives or there is
:10:36. > :10:38.something wrong with it. I think there is a complacency in the
:10:38. > :10:42.Department for Work and Pensions which you don't see in other
:10:42. > :10:46.departments, you know... You know, in May of this year, Iain Duncan
:10:46. > :10:50.Smith, the Work and Pensions Secretary, he wrote to 11 former
:10:50. > :10:54.ministers including yourself saying thea wanted to -- that he wanted to
:10:54. > :11:01.see the papers relating totalgations of fraud and those
:11:01. > :11:04.haven't been released. That doesn't smack of complacency? There were
:11:04. > :11:10.problems - my committee looks objectively at past expenditure and
:11:10. > :11:14.we have been clear. I, I am the Labour chair of that chair...
:11:14. > :11:19.have been asked to release those papers? Well, I have no problem and
:11:19. > :11:22.I said so to my colleagues. That is an issue for my colleagues.
:11:22. > :11:27.Then we should have the papers released, shouldn't we? The papers
:11:27. > :11:31.are out there. I have given the papers. I a lot of papers passed to
:11:31. > :11:37.me, a lot of evidence in brown envelopes, a lot of e-mails, all of
:11:38. > :11:43.which I have passed to the department and work and pensions.
:11:43. > :11:47.Their attitude was "it was all past schemes. "they said these were past
:11:47. > :11:50.schemes. Everything is hunky-dory. I said it doesn't matter if they
:11:50. > :11:56.are past schemes and there was fraud, they need to investigate
:11:56. > :12:01.that properly. They are doing so and A4E has got a cloud over it.
:12:01. > :12:06.And I must say in the context in the G4 S statement today I have a
:12:06. > :12:10.real concern about how the department or Government decides
:12:10. > :12:13.whether or not it is a fit and proper company which with it should
:12:13. > :12:20.do business. I know you want to move on, but if you had a builder
:12:20. > :12:24.in your home who did a shoddy job and we know A4E had one contract
:12:24. > :12:29.taken away from them and they have police looking at another, Emma
:12:29. > :12:37.Harrison paid herself an �8.6 million dividend in country year in
:12:37. > :12:43.a company that gets its money out of public money. You wouldn't ask
:12:43. > :12:47.that builder to... This is A4 E saying they have addressed the
:12:47. > :12:50.problems and they are fit and proper contractors to carry out the
:12:50. > :12:54.contracts. Are you saying they are not fit and proper? If that's
:12:54. > :12:59.theication, why does the Government not let us see the statistics so
:12:59. > :13:03.that we can judge on A4 E's performance whether or not they are
:13:03. > :13:06.a fit and proper company. Cristina Odone, the Government is
:13:06. > :13:10.reliant on the private contractors, do you think there is a whiter
:13:10. > :13:16.problem here? Well, I think definitely whether it is a public
:13:16. > :13:20.service that is being given out to a private contractor or to a
:13:20. > :13:25.Government contractor, what we need is scrutiny, better scrutiny and
:13:25. > :13:31.what Margaret Hodge's committee has shown is that the scrutiny over A4
:13:31. > :13:35.E has been abysmal or at least not perfect and I think that what we
:13:35. > :13:40.need to have is the great transparency that we have been
:13:40. > :13:45.promised by the coalition from A to Z to focus on these private
:13:45. > :13:49.contractors. One of the problems was that Emma Harrison and her
:13:49. > :13:54.social enterprise was how we were sold it, looked so good. It was
:13:54. > :13:57.part of wishful thinking. Big Society come through.
:13:57. > :14:00.Is it a problem with this particular company or is there a
:14:00. > :14:03.wider difficulty do you think in keeping tabs on the private
:14:03. > :14:08.contractors? It is wider than that and New Labour and the
:14:08. > :14:14.Conservatives have to come to terms with that record. It is not just
:14:14. > :14:16.the case with A4 E, we have had two G4 S directors resigning today.
:14:16. > :14:24.During the Olympics they were expected to provide security and
:14:24. > :14:27.failed to do so, who had to step in? The State. And Philip Hammond,
:14:27. > :14:31.a Conservative Cabinet Minister he said that questioned his belief
:14:31. > :14:38.that the private sector automatically provided better value
:14:39. > :14:43.for money and was more efficient than the public sector.
:14:43. > :14:46.My fear is what we will end up with is taxpayers money, hard earned
:14:46. > :14:49.taxpayers money, lining the pockets of private contractors who are
:14:49. > :14:53.ripping us all off. Margaret, in your committee, you
:14:53. > :14:58.have looked at a whole series of these different projects where the
:14:58. > :15:03.Government has brought in private contractors. Is it a problem of the
:15:03. > :15:08.contracts of a lack of oversight or the way the whole systems work?
:15:08. > :15:12.There is a generic problem across Government particularly as they use
:15:12. > :15:19.more private contractors to deliver public services and it is about
:15:19. > :15:22.transparency. Too often both the contractor and the department hide
:15:22. > :15:25.behind commercial confidentiality and won't tell you how they are
:15:25. > :15:30.spending the money and either you build transparency into the
:15:30. > :15:33.contract or allow Freedom of Information provisions to relate to
:15:33. > :15:39.contracts that where it is the taxpayers money, delivering a
:15:39. > :15:44.public service, I think that's hugely important and I also think,
:15:44. > :15:51.and we are coming across it the Health Service and across PFI, that
:15:51. > :15:55.the ability of Government to really strike a descent deal, a good deal
:15:55. > :15:58.for the taxpayer, to have those commercial business skills which
:15:59. > :16:08.will ensure that we get proper value and aren't ripped off, don't
:16:09. > :16:11.
:16:11. > :16:15.In just under 30 days, there will be a new president of the United
:16:15. > :16:20.States, or if you believe the polls, confirmation that the same one the
:16:20. > :16:24.staying on for another four years. Next week, Mitt Romney has what
:16:24. > :16:28.might be his last chance to turn the race around with the
:16:28. > :16:35.presidential debate in Denver on Wednesday. Can he do it? We asked
:16:35. > :16:42.the Huffington post's Ryan Grim for his take on the race. We are on the
:16:42. > :16:48.rooftop of the Huffington post. Last Monday and, Mitt Romney
:16:48. > :16:53.announced a major Reset of his stumbling campaign. Hours later we
:16:53. > :16:58.are published footage of him in a secret fund raiser saying that 47 %
:16:58. > :17:03.of the people are deadbeats. It reinforced the stereotype that
:17:03. > :17:07.people already have of Romney. many Americans are struggling to
:17:07. > :17:12.find work in the economy. To many of them are living pay cheque to
:17:12. > :17:17.pay cheques. More Americans are living in poverty than when
:17:17. > :17:22.President Obama took office. My plan will create 12 million new
:17:22. > :17:26.jobs over the next four years. We shouldn't measure compassion by how
:17:26. > :17:31.many people on welfare. We should measure compassion by how many
:17:31. > :17:35.people are able to get off welfare and get a good paying job. I am
:17:35. > :17:39.Mitt Romney and I approve this message. In order to re energise
:17:39. > :17:45.his campaign, Mitt Romney came here to Capitol Hill, where he scooped
:17:45. > :17:51.up Paul Ryan to be his number two. The picky made last August was
:17:51. > :17:55.heralded by his Tea Party and grassroots Conservatives. They
:17:55. > :17:59.found a way to bring their ideology into the campaign but it has not
:17:59. > :18:05.happened. Take a look at what happened this week in Ohio. Mitt
:18:05. > :18:13.Romney had this bizarre interaction with his own audience. Back is
:18:13. > :18:20.quite a guy, isn't it, Paul Ryan, that is something. Wait a second,
:18:20. > :18:23.Romney Ryan, Ann Romney Ryan, Ron the Ryan. A despite having run what
:18:23. > :18:27.many people considered the worst presidential campaign they have
:18:27. > :18:32.ever seen, Mitt Romney is still very much in this race and that is
:18:32. > :18:37.for one reason. He has history on his side. Not since this man, FDR,
:18:37. > :18:43.has a President been re-elected with an economy this hour and an
:18:43. > :18:46.unemployment rate this high. Ronnie has a chance to change his
:18:46. > :18:50.direction and he has signalled he is ready to go on the offensive. --
:18:50. > :18:56.Ann Romney. The President has a tendency to say things which are
:18:56. > :19:00.not tree and in attacking his opponents, I have looked at prior
:19:00. > :19:04.debate and it is difficult to say I am are going to spend my time
:19:04. > :19:07.correcting things which are not accurate or I might go and spend my
:19:07. > :19:11.time talking that things I want to talk about? It will be hard to make
:19:11. > :19:17.those charges stick because Ronnie has been accused of the same thing.
:19:17. > :19:22.A welfare advert he has been running has been called false. Paul
:19:22. > :19:30.Ryan during his convention speech made at least four major misleading
:19:30. > :19:35.claims which were called out by the media. But we have a major money
:19:35. > :19:40.advantage for Mitt Romney and a tumultuous Middle East. It is
:19:40. > :19:44.possible that in January, he could be downsizing and moving into this
:19:44. > :19:49.Lumb here. It makes our campaigns look rather
:19:49. > :19:53.tame, doesn't it? Irwin, I am guessing you are not a huge fan of
:19:53. > :19:58.Mitt Romney. If you were his chief spin doctor, you would be burying
:19:58. > :20:06.your head in your hands. I would beam rocking in a foetal position
:20:06. > :20:12.in a corner somewhere. Not since FDR has any President won re-
:20:12. > :20:15.election with an unemployment rate above 8%. Unemployment is
:20:15. > :20:20.stubbornly high in that country. Yesterday, GDP figures were slashed.
:20:20. > :20:26.The economy is in a terrible state but in all the polls, Obama is
:20:26. > :20:31.pulling ahead, particularly in the key battleground states like Ohio.
:20:31. > :20:35.He has a very firm lead there. Unless there is a huge deal broker,
:20:35. > :20:39.for example Israel attacks Iran, I cannot see how Mitt Romney has any
:20:39. > :20:44.chance of winning an election he should have walked. Despite all
:20:44. > :20:48.those problems, it is interesting that Mitt Romney is still there in
:20:49. > :20:52.the race. People feel there is a huge amount to play for. It is
:20:52. > :21:00.unbelievable. Especially when you watch him put his foot repeatedly
:21:00. > :21:04.in his mouth. I think it is that old it is the economy, stupid. What
:21:04. > :21:09.Obama has to fight is not a man but money. He has to fight the fact
:21:09. > :21:14.that a lot of Americans feel poorer today than they did when he came in.
:21:14. > :21:19.That is where the problem lies. there were such high expectations
:21:19. > :21:23.on Obama. Do you think he is suffering the backlash from that?
:21:23. > :21:28.have to say, as somebody who has lived in Washington DC, I never
:21:28. > :21:33.thought it could happen, that somebody who was black could get in
:21:34. > :21:38.as President. Obama for me, can stop right there. For me, he has
:21:38. > :21:43.changed what America looks like. He has changed what America can say to
:21:43. > :21:49.the world. The problem is, after that momentous, historic,
:21:49. > :21:54.heartbreaking and thrilling moment, what has he done? It has not been
:21:54. > :21:59.exactly the best confirmation of an intelligent, brilliant strategic
:21:59. > :22:04.mind. If I was Mitt Romney's chief- of-staff, which thankfully I am not,
:22:04. > :22:07.I would get him to do what Reagan did back in 1980 by repeatedly
:22:07. > :22:12.hammer Jimmy Carter by saying to you feel better off than you did
:22:12. > :22:17.four years ago? The case for most Americans is absolutely not. But we
:22:17. > :22:21.have already had a classic Mitt Romney attacking 47 % of Americans
:22:21. > :22:25.as scroungers, including many natural Republican voters, people
:22:25. > :22:29.like military veterans and pensioners. It was the worst own
:22:29. > :22:37.goal. You can see the 60 something year-old granny sitting in her
:22:37. > :22:40.porch and Chicago and saying, I would have voted for year... Took
:22:40. > :22:46.there was even a suggestion that some of these 47 % were people who
:22:46. > :22:51.had been taken out of tax by a previous Republican tax changes.
:22:51. > :22:55.is really ruining it. What he should stick to his economics. And
:22:56. > :23:00.then he could stand a chance. are coming up to this first
:23:00. > :23:06.presidential debate and as we know, very often these debates can be
:23:06. > :23:12.turned one way or another by one chance comment, one chance remark.
:23:12. > :23:19.A classic one-liner, absolutely. There was one in 1988. By eight do
:23:19. > :23:24.not remember it because I was very young at the time. One Republican
:23:24. > :23:31.vice-presidential candidate said he compared himself to JFK. Someone
:23:31. > :23:37.else said he knew JFK and he was no JFK. That turned the debate around.
:23:37. > :23:41.Mitt Romney does not have the affection of the conservative base.
:23:42. > :23:46.That he Party's mantra is one half of America is subsidising the other
:23:46. > :23:50.but they do not think he is one of theirs. The establishment think he
:23:50. > :23:54.is incompetent. He does not have a strong base in the party. Thank you
:23:54. > :23:57.both very much. It has been another turbulent week
:23:57. > :24:02.in the eurozone with a nationwide strike in Greece descending into
:24:02. > :24:06.riots, protesters throwing petrol bombs and rocks and dozens of
:24:06. > :24:10.arrests being made. Yesterday, the Greek government made progress on
:24:10. > :24:15.the basic outlines of a new 13 billion euros package of cuts and
:24:15. > :24:18.tax increases. That has been overshadowed by a request from some
:24:18. > :24:22.in the governing coalition fraud more help from Brussels to soften
:24:22. > :24:26.the effect of cuts. Meanwhile, demonstrators have been out on the
:24:26. > :24:30.streets of Spain this week with tens of thousands of protesting at
:24:30. > :24:37.austerity measures. Nevertheless, the Spanish government yesterday
:24:37. > :24:42.announced a new round of tax and cups - at tax cuts. Vicky Pryce,
:24:42. > :24:47.who was born in Greece, is the author of a new book on the crisis.
:24:47. > :24:51.She joins us now. We keep hearing that Greece is on the brink, that
:24:51. > :24:56.it is seeking another bail out, that it has another round of cuts,
:24:56. > :24:59.obviously people are feeling a great deal of pain, way do you
:24:59. > :25:05.think Greece stands at the moment? The problem we have is Greece has
:25:05. > :25:15.seen a reduction in its GDP for the last five years. The likelihood is
:25:15. > :25:18.
:25:18. > :25:23.we will see a drop in output of -- in 2012 and 2013. If other
:25:23. > :25:28.countries had a drop in GDP would have riots in the streets. There
:25:28. > :25:34.has been a huge amount of pain. And major increase in unemployment,
:25:34. > :25:39.there is now 27 % unemployment. Confusingly, we have now got a new
:25:39. > :25:44.package of cuts, very unpopular, we thought there was a deal, arranged,
:25:44. > :25:49.but it seems Greece is asking for more time? The government which has
:25:49. > :25:52.now come to power which is a coalition government, which is made
:25:52. > :25:57.up of Socialists and the centre right and also some centre-left as
:25:57. > :26:01.well, it is a three-party coalition, came with a mandate to renegotiate
:26:01. > :26:08.the deal because the latest package had caused so much concern. None of
:26:08. > :26:13.this has come into Greece yet. We are talking about 110 to 130
:26:13. > :26:18.billion euros, as part of a second package, which has meant mainly
:26:18. > :26:22.recapitalising the banking sector, mainly there to increase liquidity
:26:22. > :26:27.in the system and also to compensate all the banks which took
:26:27. > :26:31.a haircut, if you like. They took a reduction. Very little is due to
:26:31. > :26:35.come into the Greek economy itself, which means that people are
:26:35. > :26:38.suffering, contractors are not being paid, it is not as if the
:26:39. > :26:43.West, western Europe has been putting a lot of money into Greece,
:26:43. > :26:47.very little of that has come. But the conditions attached to that
:26:47. > :26:52.money are so tight and have required the Greeks to have come
:26:52. > :26:56.with a further package of cuts which is the 11.6 billion there
:26:56. > :27:02.have just agreed. So little more time for Greece to stagger on and
:27:02. > :27:08.in the meantime, mounting concerns about Spain which has also had to
:27:08. > :27:13.announce another round of cuts. How serious is the situation in Spain
:27:13. > :27:17.now? Is it getting to the point that Greece is that? Greece needs
:27:17. > :27:22.extra time to do it and what it really needs is to have a lot of
:27:22. > :27:26.the debt renegotiated and frankly, written off. There is no way it can
:27:26. > :27:30.carry on the way it is. It is very similar in Spain. It has the same
:27:30. > :27:34.unemployment rate. It is a much larger economy sea can imagine how
:27:34. > :27:40.many people are out of work, it is stupendous. The youth unemployment
:27:40. > :27:43.rate is at 54 %. Spain has already extended its own timetable which
:27:43. > :27:50.the markets have accepted. It is about to hear terrible things about
:27:50. > :27:54.its banking sector. It will need to go for a proper bail out. The debt
:27:54. > :27:59.in Spain is unsustainable in my view. Like Greece, it will have a
:27:59. > :28:04.reduction in GDP this year, a reduction next year and the
:28:04. > :28:08.austerity package just announced is adding more pain. It cut public
:28:08. > :28:12.spending, raise taxes and cuts benefits which will affect the
:28:12. > :28:16.population at large. So far, we have seen the leadership of Germany,
:28:16. > :28:21.France and others in Europe have been that they have been so
:28:21. > :28:25.concerned about a wider collapse of the European currency that they
:28:25. > :28:30.have decided it is better to carry on doing whatever they need to to
:28:30. > :28:35.try and keep these countries in the eurozone. Is that going to continue
:28:35. > :28:39.or are we going to finally reach some crisis point. We seem to keep
:28:39. > :28:43.approaching crisis point and then the crisis get staved off for a
:28:43. > :28:48.little longer, more time is given. The problem is, they have not been
:28:48. > :28:52.doing enough, and they have not been doing it fast enough. The way
:28:52. > :29:00.they are operating, they are doing the opposite. Every time there is a
:29:00. > :29:03.summit, a decision is made. It used to last few weeks. The markets have
:29:03. > :29:07.stopped believing what comes out of those summits and what you hear
:29:07. > :29:12.every now and then, a decision is made and then it gets reversed. It
:29:12. > :29:16.is going on right this minute about how you refund capitalisation in
:29:16. > :29:22.the backs. Do you think it is looking inevitable that Greece and
:29:22. > :29:27.Spain might have to leave the euro? No. I think everyone will work hard
:29:27. > :29:30.to ensure that certainly Spain and Greece and the other countries,
:29:30. > :29:36.because if Greece believes the whole thing will fall apart. Italy
:29:36. > :29:41.is in trouble. Mario Monti is talking about extending his stay as
:29:41. > :29:47.Prime Minister so he can continue the reform process. I think the
:29:47. > :29:52.Germans will have to fund it. Christina Odone, with this eurozone
:29:52. > :29:58.crisis having an impact here, but we seem to be carrying on lurching
:29:58. > :30:04.from one crisis point to the next, do you think the leaders in Europe
:30:04. > :30:08.are right to try and keep this project on the rails at all costs?
:30:08. > :30:13.I think the problem is, it is not just a global village, it is a
:30:13. > :30:18.European village. Whatever happens to Greece, does have a huge impact
:30:18. > :30:23.on the rest of us, so we are linked together and some of us may think a
:30:23. > :30:27.country like Greece or Spain or Italy, is a bit of an albatross
:30:27. > :30:34.around another country's neck but we are stuck together. The problem
:30:34. > :30:37.is, the politics of any kind of stronger centralised discipline is
:30:38. > :30:42.so unappealing, especially unappealing to northern Europe and
:30:42. > :30:49.especially to Britain, because what we cannot bear is the thought of
:30:49. > :30:54.more sovereignty going to some central anonymous, autonomous
:30:54. > :30:59.institution that we have no power over, we have no say in, we are
:30:59. > :31:09.just going to be quashed as citizens of a nation. And that, I
:31:09. > :31:12.think, is what people are really There has been a lot of
:31:12. > :31:16.surrendering of sovereignty which has has taken too much? Too much
:31:16. > :31:19.some might say. Possibly, but some of the countries,
:31:19. > :31:25.we want to talk about Spain and Italy and Greece, probably wanted
:31:25. > :31:28.more of their sovereignty to go because they wanted to be run by
:31:28. > :31:32.the technocrats in Brussels rather than their own politicians.
:31:32. > :31:36.That's one of the of the problems. We are talking about Greece and
:31:37. > :31:44.Italy and Spain, countries that have a low civic understanding of
:31:44. > :31:54.what responsibility lies. Countries that are featured nationally as the
:31:54. > :32:02.tax dodge U Owen? The Nobel prize winning
:32:02. > :32:09.economist has it right. It compares it to a medieval witchdoctor as the
:32:09. > :32:13.patient gets weaker, bleeds it more. What we are seeing in Greece is a
:32:13. > :32:17.catastrophe. So they should be spending more?
:32:17. > :32:21.What is happening is debt is surging in Greece. We have over
:32:21. > :32:28.half of young people unemployed. We have a society basically being
:32:28. > :32:34.dismantled because of austerity imposed by the German Government.
:32:34. > :32:38.Not because of austerity. This is the key point. If you look at
:32:38. > :32:43.Ireland, Ireland had a budget surplus before the crisis. All
:32:43. > :32:49.countries regardless whether they had a surplus or deficit had been
:32:49. > :32:53.hit by a financial crisis. Money borrowed in a bad way is not
:32:53. > :32:59.good money. You are saying that part of the problems in places like
:32:59. > :33:02.Greece and Spain is that the EU, the terms of the bail outs are so
:33:02. > :33:06.so strict that it is making the problems worse. Do you think they
:33:06. > :33:11.would be better off outside the euro? In the case of Greece, about
:33:11. > :33:14.70% of the population want to stay within the euro, but that's giving
:33:14. > :33:18.them little flexibility in dealing with the crisis. What needs to
:33:18. > :33:21.happen is firstly, a lot of the debt needs to be written off. There
:33:21. > :33:24.is no way it can be paid off and what we are seeing is the
:33:24. > :33:28.dismantling of a society as a result of that, young people, no
:33:28. > :33:32.future in that country, but the banks to be taken over and publicly
:33:32. > :33:38.controlled and used to invest in the economy which at the moment I
:33:38. > :33:42.mean are sustained by the taxpayer. Surely there is a point there in
:33:42. > :33:46.these tight rules that are being imposed on countries like Greece
:33:46. > :33:49.and Spain, are making it really very, very difficult indeed for
:33:50. > :33:53.those economies to find anyway to recover? What you need is to change
:33:53. > :33:58.the rules. Not necessarily to see the countries go. There is no doubt
:33:58. > :34:02.that all of them reform, whether you look at Italy or Spain. You
:34:02. > :34:08.actually have countries that don't do the right things if you like and
:34:08. > :34:11.because the euro was a good thing for them in the short-term is, low
:34:11. > :34:15.interest rates to finance the housing boom in Spain and the
:34:15. > :34:22.French banks in Greece and they borrowed like there was no tomorrow.
:34:23. > :34:26.But they weren't - but what happened since with with the crisis
:34:26. > :34:31.that hit, there was nothing to fall back on because they hadn't
:34:31. > :34:36.restructured and they had no way they could change their exchange
:34:36. > :34:40.rate. We need to re-think this. OK, I am sure a lot more to come.
:34:40. > :34:45.There is a big summit coming up before the end of the year.
:34:45. > :34:49.Did you hear the one about the politician who died on stage? Well,
:34:49. > :34:53.we don't mean literally. When Danny Alexander stood up in front of the
:34:53. > :34:58.Lib Dem conference and told jokes you could have heard a pin drop. It
:34:58. > :35:02.was a reminder that while political humour can have them rolling in the
:35:02. > :35:12.aisles, it can have heading for the exits. We have come up with the
:35:12. > :35:26.
:35:26. > :35:27.# I'm joker # Cherie, I mean...
:35:28. > :35:37.APPLAUSE Well, at least I don't have to
:35:38. > :35:44.
:35:44. > :35:51.worry about her running off with The Guardian Disclosed that the
:35:51. > :35:53.speech had not been written by Gordon Brown at all.
:35:53. > :35:55.LAUGHTER But by a 27-year-old choral singing
:35:56. > :36:01.researcher name Ed Balls. There you have it, the final proof, Labour's
:36:01. > :36:11.brand-new shining, modernist economist dream, but it wasn't
:36:11. > :36:16.
:36:16. > :36:19.Brown's, it was Balls! APPLAUSE
:36:19. > :36:29.I will not make agen issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit
:36:29. > :36:33.
:36:33. > :36:35.for political purposes my opponents youth and inexperience.
:36:35. > :36:39.LAUGHTER You did wrack up more medals than
:36:39. > :36:45.France, didn't you? Yes! And more med medals than
:36:45. > :36:49.Germany and Australia and more medals my friends per head, more
:36:49. > :36:54.medals per head than virtually every country on earth and yes, you
:36:54. > :37:01.brought sport home to a city and a country where by and large it was
:37:02. > :37:06.invented and codified. You brought athletics home, you brought home
:37:06. > :37:16.rowing, you brought home cycling, you brought home judo, I am not
:37:16. > :37:16.
:37:16. > :37:26.sure if judo was invented in London. Of course, not everything about the
:37:26. > :37:29.
:37:29. > :37:31.Budget this year was perfect. LAUGHTER
:37:31. > :37:34.Julia Church my brilliant special adviser was getting married a few
:37:34. > :37:38.weeks after the Budget in Cornwall. I checked to make sure that her
:37:38. > :37:43.future husband was not a caravan gelling churchgoer with a taste for
:37:44. > :37:50.pasttries, but I will always think of that period of four U-turns and
:37:50. > :37:52.a wedding. Thank you.
:37:52. > :37:55.APPLAUSE Oh dear. Poor old Danny having to
:37:55. > :38:01.laugh himself to break up the silence there. But we are joined by
:38:01. > :38:06.the man who wrote Tony Blair's Gordon and Cherie joke, the former
:38:06. > :38:11.speech writer and now Times columnist. Cherie had put her foot
:38:11. > :38:15.in it and Tony Blair turned the corner there. Yes, the Gordon Brown
:38:15. > :38:18.speech was over shadowed by something about Cherie Blair having
:38:18. > :38:21.said something rude about him to a journalist and it ran, it was
:38:21. > :38:25.running the next day and that's the key to why the joke worked. It is
:38:25. > :38:29.because we conceded in that joke that she probably had said it. And
:38:29. > :38:33.the joke had a real purpose. It wasn't just a joke, completely
:38:33. > :38:38.separate from the speech, had a political impact because we were
:38:38. > :38:45.saying, "Yeah, OK, three probably said it. But let's not worry about
:38:45. > :38:52.it too much." The original joke is a Les Dawson gag. The original one
:38:52. > :38:55.is where Les Dawson used to say, "My wife has just run off with the
:38:56. > :39:01.guy next door, and do you know what? I'm really going to miss
:39:01. > :39:04.him.". LAUGHTER
:39:04. > :39:07.In that circumstance, was it Tony Blair himself who decided we have
:39:07. > :39:09.got to make a a joke out of this? And you were tasked with coming up
:39:09. > :39:12.with it? There were more people involved and everybody knows the
:39:12. > :39:17.best way of dealing with it is to have some lightness of touch. It
:39:17. > :39:21.has - as you said, it has got to be funny. If a joke is really funny
:39:21. > :39:26.you hide in the laughter the political point. If it is not funny,
:39:26. > :39:31.you risk basically insulteding everybody, you risk Gordon Brown
:39:31. > :39:37.being annoyed and risk drawing attention to the facts without
:39:37. > :39:40.disolving it. It took a while to fin the right right form at.
:39:40. > :39:43.And did Cherie see the joke? Yes. LAUGHTER
:39:43. > :39:48.Eventually. A couple of seconds after the
:39:48. > :39:52.laughter in the hall, everybody saw the joke! It is risque. If you do a
:39:52. > :39:56.joke like that, there is a risk attached. As the Prime Minister
:39:56. > :40:00.stood up to speak, it wasn't in the script, it was in his head and we
:40:00. > :40:05.didn't know know until he said it, whether he was going to. He judged
:40:05. > :40:09.the mood about whether to do the joke. Danny Alexander... You were
:40:09. > :40:14.at the scene biting your nails wondering if it is going to happen?
:40:14. > :40:19.Firstly, is he going to say it and is it going to come off? I never
:40:19. > :40:24.thought it would come off as well as it did. What Danny Alexander
:40:24. > :40:31.should have done with get out of it. I'm dying here. I have got to stop,
:40:31. > :40:34.but he goes on and on and supplies his own laughter track at the end.
:40:34. > :40:38.Is part of the problem the politician involved or the
:40:38. > :40:41.solution? We saw Boris Johnson there who seems capable of opening
:40:41. > :40:47.his mouth and saying just about anything and getting everyone on
:40:47. > :40:51.his side and everyone laughing and Danny Alexander didn't have that
:40:51. > :40:54.effect even at Lib Dem conference? Comedy has to be organic. It has
:40:54. > :40:58.could come out of the thing that you are writing. You hate it when
:40:58. > :41:02.they say before they go on, "Have you got any jokes?" They shouldn't
:41:02. > :41:08.be separate. Boris does it naturally and his problem is the
:41:08. > :41:12.opposite. He needs to be not so funny and for serious, but some
:41:12. > :41:21.people can't do it. Occasionally you get somebody who is not funny,
:41:21. > :41:26.to be funny. The classic case was Margaret Thatcher. The Lib Dems had
:41:26. > :41:36.a new motive that looked like a dead parrot. They got her to do the
:41:36. > :41:40.dead parrot sketch. She didn't know who Monty Python was and she
:41:40. > :41:46.watched the video and before she went on the stage and she said,
:41:46. > :41:49."This Monty Python, is he one of us?". Oh, how wonderful.
:41:49. > :41:52.It worked because the script was good.
:41:52. > :42:00.They always say politics is show business for ugly people and
:42:00. > :42:06.often... Like acting? When it comes to actsing, politicians not least
:42:06. > :42:13.your own boss could be superb, but when it comes to humour, the
:42:13. > :42:17.classic one was Sarah Tether last year, I urge your viewers to watch
:42:17. > :42:20.it and she talked about going back to Strictly Come Dancing and says
:42:20. > :42:24.George Osborne is going to be doing the line dancing and everything was
:42:24. > :42:27.wrong, its timing, the way she delivered it. It was trending on
:42:27. > :42:31.Twitter Within an hour and it was a car crash.
:42:31. > :42:36.And yet politicians feel the need to turn to humour, to make
:42:36. > :42:41.themselves appear human and normal and... It is playing to the gallery.
:42:41. > :42:46.It is trying to appeal to the audience. It is trying to feel the
:42:46. > :42:50.audience. It is trying to feed the audience, but it really, rarely
:42:50. > :42:56.works and Boris, you are right, Philip. One of the weird things is
:42:56. > :42:59.that when the politician is so effortlessly funny and so you know,
:42:59. > :43:06.wonderful, all he has to do is touch the hair and everybody roars
:43:06. > :43:11.with laughter. It does leave some of his audience wondering, "Is he
:43:11. > :43:15.serious?" When push comes to shove, can he deliver? Well, he has been
:43:15. > :43:19.re-elected to City Hall so it is obviously working.
:43:19. > :43:24.It is not Number Ten. It is interesting to see what he
:43:24. > :43:29.does at the the Tory party conference.
:43:29. > :43:31.Do you think Ed Miliband should try more jokes next week?
:43:31. > :43:35.LAUGHTER I don't.
:43:35. > :43:42.Look at the look of horror on his speech when you said that!
:43:42. > :43:46.No, I don't think he should. If - he is not an unfunny person
:43:46. > :43:49.privately. It just depends. If it occurs naturally in the writing and
:43:49. > :43:54.it is funny then yes, but it should be something he is comfortable with
:43:54. > :44:02.that he has devised. He shouldn't bow to the pressure that I have got
:44:02. > :44:05.to have two jokes and let's put put them in at the last minute. You
:44:05. > :44:10.lose confidence when you tell a joke and it dies.
:44:10. > :44:14.You may remember how a couple of weeks ago, we asked the
:44:14. > :44:18.Conservative author Richard D North on to the Daily Politics to give us
:44:18. > :44:27.his guide on how to be a right- winger. Well, we thought we would
:44:27. > :44:37.ask Owen Jones for a guide for the left-winger. Have a look at this.
:44:37. > :44:38.
:44:38. > :44:43.At five, pay your taxes. Don't do a Jimmy Carr.
:44:43. > :44:46.At four, none of us have any control of our upbringing. We want
:44:46. > :44:52.working people to have a a voice, but it doesn't mean hating people
:44:52. > :44:56.for being born posh. At three, join a trade union and
:44:56. > :45:06.never cross a picket line. It is the only means workers have to
:45:06. > :45:07.
:45:07. > :45:11.fight for a fair share of the cake. It is a non mover at tworks don't
:45:11. > :45:17.go all people's front. The real enemy is capitalism, not each
:45:17. > :45:26.other! And at one, your goal is a society
:45:26. > :45:35.run by working people for working people. Not Not in the interests of
:45:35. > :45:41.That was almost a bit of Clause four at the end there. It is not
:45:41. > :45:46.exactly the cool thing to be left wing at the moment. Do you think it
:45:46. > :45:53.is time for the left wing to we exert itself and put pressure on Ed
:45:53. > :45:56.Miliband and Ed Balls? I think most people outside off political life
:45:56. > :46:01.do-nothing cod issues in terms of left and right, they think of
:46:01. > :46:05.things in terms of issues which have to be addressed, whether they
:46:05. > :46:10.solutions are convincing, coherent and resonate with their experiences.
:46:11. > :46:14.We are four years now into an intractable economic crisis, where
:46:14. > :46:20.people face the biggest squeeze in living standards since my ground
:46:20. > :46:26.was born in the 1920s. It remains boom-time for those at the top. The
:46:26. > :46:30.Sunday Times Rich List, the wealth went up by the 5th. I think there
:46:30. > :46:35.is a growing appetite now when we have seen the failures of free-
:46:35. > :46:38.market capitalism to say, there is a different way of running society
:46:38. > :46:46.and I think people are more open now to talking about higher taxes
:46:46. > :46:49.on the rich. Christina, does Owen Jones have a point? A lot of people
:46:49. > :46:53.are struggling, do you think this could be an opportunity for the
:46:53. > :46:58.left? And unfair society is a terrible thing. But I think what
:46:59. > :47:03.Phil wrote this morning in his column was a bit of a challenge to,
:47:03. > :47:08.which it is what does Labour stand for when there is no money? That is
:47:08. > :47:14.the problem. When you said it Labour no longer is the coherent
:47:14. > :47:20.opposition, what do they stand for? What are they going to do? Why
:47:20. > :47:25.should I go and vote for them? Let's bring in Phil here. Do you
:47:25. > :47:31.consider yourself a man of the left these days. It is not something
:47:31. > :47:37.people often ask that yes, rather than right. I think what I to
:47:37. > :47:41.disagree is the alternatives to captors and, what you will get is
:47:41. > :47:44.responsible capitalism. You may or may not get it but that is the
:47:44. > :47:49.frame of the argument. What you will get is a different form of
:47:49. > :47:55.capitalism. What I do not get the sense of his public ownership of
:47:55. > :48:00.the commanding heights of the economy and other things for stud
:48:00. > :48:06.you do consider yourself a man of the left? Yes, I am a democratic
:48:06. > :48:15.socialist and I want a society run by the working people. Are you in
:48:15. > :48:21.1980 person Orin 1930 person? 2012 left winger. I do not want to
:48:21. > :48:28.return to the old form of statism pioneered by Peter Mandelson's
:48:28. > :48:32.grandfather, Herbert Morrison. I do not want the old-style British Rail.
:48:32. > :48:42.I would have workers and passengers have been democratically
:48:42. > :48:48.represented elect lives on the board. What role do we have as tax
:48:48. > :48:52.payers bailing out the banks to running the Bank's? You have
:48:52. > :48:58.written these five Rules. Phil Collins helped Tony Blair very much
:48:58. > :49:02.to shift the Labour Party, do you have him as part of that cabal who
:49:02. > :49:07.betrayed the left or do you think they help? I think it would be fair
:49:08. > :49:12.to say we come from a slightly different tradition. Clause 4,
:49:12. > :49:17.would you bring it back? necessarily in that form. I like
:49:17. > :49:22.the idea of a society run by working people. I avoid the cries
:49:22. > :49:28.of betrayal because the way I see that rightward shift is the rise of
:49:28. > :49:34.the New Right in the 1980s. The form of globalisation with Hendon
:49:34. > :49:37.Government's. But also, after the end of the Cold War, even if your
:49:37. > :49:44.airport Stalinist totalitarianism, as I hope all people on the left
:49:44. > :49:51.did, that was Banaz capitalism's final victory. We are still
:49:51. > :50:00.suffering from the legacy. other thing about Old Labour, it
:50:00. > :50:05.was phenomenally on successful -- New Labour. Well Tony Blair won
:50:05. > :50:15.something. Exactly. The absurdity of the view that the Labour Party
:50:15. > :50:18.
:50:18. > :50:22.can return to view it has -- doesn't extend to the market for
:50:22. > :50:28.haircuts and core jets? What product markets are you extending
:50:28. > :50:33.this into? I must just ask you, Christina, you used to work for the
:50:33. > :50:43.New Statesman, weighed you consider yourself on this? I have become
:50:43. > :50:45.
:50:45. > :50:50.more right-wing than Phil and right centre. What I cannot bear about
:50:50. > :50:56.Owen's vision, I like you but I do not like your vision, what I do not
:50:56. > :51:00.like his huge state quashing all individual initiative. The one
:51:00. > :51:06.thing I still like about David Cameron is the Big Society, the one
:51:06. > :51:10.that nobody liked. But what I loved was the thought of lots of people
:51:10. > :51:15.really taking up and doing things and seeing their neighbourhood,
:51:15. > :51:22.their locality as a great launch pad for all kinds of initiatives.
:51:22. > :51:27.Your statism... Is it is not statism. You obviously feel very
:51:27. > :51:31.passionate about this. Do you think it is possible that as you continue
:51:31. > :51:35.in the years to come, you could perhaps move on a political journey
:51:35. > :51:40.yourself? That you might be tempted by David Cameron's Big Society,
:51:40. > :51:46.that you might, as you get older, as a lot of people have shifted
:51:46. > :51:50.from the left to the right? It is thickly shade right-wing shift. But
:51:51. > :51:54.no. I come from a very proud left- wing background. Four generations
:51:54. > :52:00.of both sides my family have been committed to the trade union
:52:00. > :52:03.movement. My great grandad was on the 1926 General Strike. My parents
:52:03. > :52:09.were trade union activists and none of them shifted to the right. What
:52:09. > :52:16.I am arguing for is a higher taxes on the rich, democratic control of
:52:16. > :52:20.our banks, social ownership, not the old form of statism. We have
:52:20. > :52:24.got lots of socialism in this country for the rich. Banks propped
:52:24. > :52:29.up by the tax payer, landlords who are paid housing benefits for
:52:29. > :52:35.example. I do not want to run the railways. Well I am not asking you
:52:35. > :52:41.to. We are going to leave this discussion now. It has been a week
:52:41. > :52:46.dominated by the Liberal Democrats hanging up by the beach in Brighton.
:52:46. > :52:49.David Cameron was given a lesson in history on American TV. Here is
:52:49. > :52:52.David Thomson with the 60 second round up.
:52:52. > :52:56.Chief Whip Andrew Mitchell decided to get off his bike and perhaps his
:52:56. > :53:00.high horse as he headed in to work on Monday. But after apologising he
:53:00. > :53:05.was not keen to hang around for more questions from the plebs,
:53:05. > :53:09.Surrey, hacks. Luckily, he could count on the support of his
:53:09. > :53:14.coalition colleagues. A jokes about social class are not good for the
:53:14. > :53:19.unity of the coalition. As Eimear pleb, I could not resist. Talking
:53:19. > :53:24.of the Lib Dems, it was conference time in Brighton. Nick Clegg might
:53:24. > :53:27.be expecting a bloodbath in the next election. I have seen
:53:27. > :53:34.generations of liberals marching towards the sound of gunfire.
:53:34. > :53:37.Hamza finally got his marching orders to the US but the BBC
:53:37. > :53:42.blocked -- blotted its copybook with people in high places. David
:53:42. > :53:47.Cameron went to American -- America and he should have paid more
:53:47. > :53:53.attention to history lessons at Eton. Magna Carter? You are testing
:53:53. > :53:57.may. Be it would be good if you knew this. The yes, it would be.
:53:57. > :54:01.There was David Cameron in a spot of trouble but the trials of Andrew
:54:01. > :54:04.Mitchell have dominated the headlines for a long time. We have
:54:04. > :54:09.heard he has told his local newspaper that he believes the
:54:09. > :54:14.whole row has been blown out of all proportion by the national media.
:54:14. > :54:20.He says he has apologised and hopes he can draw a line under it. Do you
:54:20. > :54:27.think he has a point? No, I thought he was disgusting and it was really
:54:27. > :54:34.embarrassing! It made me cringe. Unbelievably, I think he will get
:54:34. > :54:39.away with it. He is in the headlines now. In the headlines
:54:39. > :54:42.after seven days, you should be dead. He should have just kept
:54:42. > :54:49.Ashton. He will put himself back in the headlines if he speaks like
:54:49. > :54:55.that. That attitude reinforced the Tory party as the party for the
:54:55. > :54:58.rich. The focus in the coming week will be on the Labour Party. It is
:54:58. > :55:03.a curious situation for Ed Miliband because he is ahead in the polls
:55:03. > :55:08.but he is facing huge amount of criticism for a failure to show
:55:08. > :55:12.sufficient leadership. What do you think he will do? It is a peculiar
:55:12. > :55:16.conference. It is unique because of the length of the political cycle.
:55:16. > :55:20.For the first time, we know we will have a five-year cycle. Normally,
:55:21. > :55:26.this would be the firing gun for an election campaign. But it will not
:55:26. > :55:30.now. Have a longer period. The first two conferences are kind of
:55:30. > :55:34.get to know Ed Miliband, the next two will be moving to a general
:55:34. > :55:38.election but this one is struggling for a purpose. He does not want to
:55:38. > :55:42.reveal too much, too early because that is a mistake. But at the same
:55:42. > :55:47.time, everybody on my side of the fence is there, but who are you,
:55:47. > :55:51.what are you going to do? It is a difficult conference for him.
:55:51. > :55:55.have heard a lot about a blank sheet of paper. There will be huge
:55:55. > :55:59.amount of pressure on him to come out with some policies? There will
:55:59. > :56:03.be, but I'm not sure he will be wise to yield to it. It is unfair
:56:03. > :56:09.that say it is a blank sheet of paper because of what he has
:56:09. > :56:13.written a some emerging themes which you may or may not like.
:56:13. > :56:19.People were not aware of them to stop the actors always true because
:56:19. > :56:22.people were not paying attention but they will. He will talk about
:56:22. > :56:30.responsible capitalism. My own view is it will not be enough. You
:56:30. > :56:34.cannot say the paper will be plant. Given the long election cycle, how
:56:34. > :56:38.do you think he is doing. Do you think he is really poised to step
:56:38. > :56:42.up a gear over the next couple of years and storm and the next
:56:42. > :56:46.election? I think they have got trouble on policy because there is
:56:46. > :56:51.not a sense of what the Labour Party really is because there is no
:56:51. > :56:57.money to hand out. Having said that, Ed Miliband was underestimated when
:56:57. > :57:00.he became leader. I never thought he was as bad as he was painted. I
:57:00. > :57:04.think the surprise that some people have had that he has had some good
:57:04. > :57:08.moments has been a surprise, just them changing their minds and
:57:08. > :57:14.realising what was true all along, he is better than that. The
:57:14. > :57:18.question is, will it be enough? were quite critical of his speech
:57:18. > :57:21.last year which talked about predatory capitalism but some would
:57:21. > :57:25.argue he is vindicated because Vince Cable has said this is
:57:25. > :57:30.something we could work on. Do you think in hindsight you were too
:57:30. > :57:38.harsh? No aye, in hindsight I was too generous. I'm sure some would
:57:38. > :57:44.say that but it is a silly distinction. This distinction
:57:44. > :57:48.between predator and producer for so vet immediately. Instantly,
:57:48. > :57:53.Andrew Neil dismantled it as a distinction. It collapses.
:57:53. > :57:59.Christina, how great is the pressure now? It is lack Mitt
:57:59. > :58:04.Romney. I can see so many parallels. -- it is like Mitt Romney. This is
:58:04. > :58:10.a guy with so much to gain. He is facing an opposition which is so
:58:10. > :58:17.unpopular, which has not been able to make cuts, a kind of cohesive
:58:17. > :58:23.national mission and what does he do? He stands there and loses all
:58:23. > :58:30.kinds of credibility. I am afraid I am not owe an Ed Miliband fund or a
:58:30. > :58:36.least not this Ed Miliband. thanks to my guests. We will have
:58:36. > :58:41.to leave there now. 1 o'clock News is starting over on BBC One. Andrew
:58:41. > :58:47.will be back on BBC One on Sunday with the Sunday Politics where he