:00:43. > :00:46.Afternoon, folks. Welcome to our Daily Politics conference special
:00:46. > :00:52.on the Labour Party Conference in Manchester. Indeed two specials for
:00:52. > :00:55.the price of one today. We're on air until 1pm today then back at
:00:55. > :00:58.2pm here on BBC2 because, in just over just over two hours, Ed
:00:58. > :01:08.Miliband makes his big annual speech to conference - this time
:01:08. > :01:16.
:01:16. > :01:20.with the specific aim of selling Ed A local comprehensive school.
:01:21. > :01:24.a comprehensive school like I did. And it's not all about Ed's
:01:24. > :01:27.schooling. Labour unveil the technical Baccalaureate saying they
:01:27. > :01:32.will invest �1 billion in what they are calling the forgotten 50%, who
:01:32. > :01:35.don't got to university. And we ask delegates to react to calls from
:01:35. > :01:44.the biggest union boss of all to kick Blairites out of the Labour
:01:44. > :01:54.Party. I am writing a book about where -- wife Blairites should
:01:54. > :01:58.never be allowed back. I am sure we can all hardly wait to read that.
:01:58. > :02:03.Did you know that Ed Miliband went to a comprehensive? All that in the
:02:03. > :02:06.next hour. And with us for the duration, not one but two top
:02:06. > :02:16.opinion pollsters, Andrew Hawkins of Com Res and Stephan Shakespeare
:02:16. > :02:18.
:02:18. > :02:21.of YouGov. Welcome to you both. A lot to talk about. And where better
:02:21. > :02:27.to start than with the latest opinion poll to look at Ed
:02:27. > :02:30.Miliband's popularity. The ComRes poll for theIndependent shows
:02:30. > :02:33.Labour's lead falling from seven points last month to just three
:02:33. > :02:36.points ahead on 38% with the Conservatives on a steady 35% and
:02:37. > :02:40.the Lib Dems up three points to 15%. This gives Labour a far smaller
:02:40. > :02:42.lead than the polls we mentioned on the programme yesterday.
:02:42. > :02:45.Unfortunately, for Mr Miliband, the ComRes poll is consistent with
:02:45. > :02:50.others in suggesting that many people doubt his leadership
:02:50. > :02:53.credentials. Just 22% of people believed Mr Miliband would make a
:02:53. > :03:02.good Prime Minister that compares to 39% who think Cameron makes a
:03:02. > :03:05.good PM. And only 24% of people say they trust Mr Miliband and the
:03:05. > :03:15.Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, to make the right decisions on the
:03:15. > :03:16.
:03:16. > :03:23.economy. Isn't this quite remarkable? You had him ahead at 5%
:03:23. > :03:27.at the weekend. You have now got him at three. I know it
:03:27. > :03:32.shuttlecocks around a little bit. When the think of the state of the
:03:32. > :03:39.economy, the squeeze of living standards, the deficit rising again,
:03:39. > :03:45.the coalition at each other's throats, frankly, I am a raise --
:03:45. > :03:53.amazed at how low the Labour lead is. We should preface with the
:03:53. > :04:01.electoral geography means Labour would still get a workable majority.
:04:01. > :04:07.Mid-term there. That is shocking. It is after the Lib Dem Conference.
:04:07. > :04:10.Come 2015, we will have another situation on our hands, as in 2010,
:04:10. > :04:15.where the coverage that the Liberal Democrat leader gets at the time
:04:15. > :04:19.will give him a boost in the polls at the expense of Labour. It is a
:04:19. > :04:24.straight switch we saw today from Labour to the Liberal Democrats.
:04:24. > :04:30.Not a huge switch but it shows house of the Labour lead is. Your
:04:30. > :04:37.poll went back up to nine. It seems like the Labour lead is struggling
:04:37. > :04:41.to get over 10. Are we seeing a softening of the Labour position?
:04:41. > :04:47.think we are. We're seeing a softening of loyalty across all
:04:47. > :04:52.parties, especially at the moment with Labour. Why? People see things
:04:52. > :04:57.going wrong and they do not think anyone has the answer. Why softer
:04:57. > :05:03.for Labour? They are in opposition. The party is united. They have a
:05:03. > :05:09.new young leader. They're not whipping themselves apart.
:05:09. > :05:15.problem is that they have not found their voice. The whole thing about
:05:15. > :05:19.pointy head and proud of it reminds me as when they were of rebranding
:05:19. > :05:25.Duncan-Smith. That is what happens when you flounder around and you
:05:25. > :05:29.have not until voice. Isn't it astonishing that not only due to
:05:29. > :05:36.root out of 10 people think Ed Miliband is prime ministerial
:05:36. > :05:46.material? -- two out of 10. Almost half of the Labour supporters think
:05:46. > :05:47.
:05:47. > :05:53.he is not prime-ministerial come material. 42% do. That is even
:05:53. > :06:00.Stevens. It comes down to one single issue and that is the
:06:00. > :06:07.economy. We saw one of the latest trackers last week which shows the
:06:07. > :06:11.economy has been the number one issue since 2007. On that, Ed
:06:11. > :06:16.Miliband, the only person on the main parties who has lectured in
:06:16. > :06:22.economics at Harvard, he is unable to get across his message on the
:06:22. > :06:29.number one thing. He is also a drag on the party's ratings. That is
:06:29. > :06:32.again apparent from today's poll, from both the economic trust
:06:32. > :06:39.figures and there would make a good Prime Minister figures. David
:06:39. > :06:45.Cameron pulls his party up. significant is it that all the
:06:45. > :06:50.polls show the Conservatives more trusted than Labour on the economy?
:06:50. > :06:55.If he cannot give him the coalition's economic strategy is in
:06:55. > :07:00.trouble at the moment, if you've cannot be seen to be more trusted
:07:00. > :07:04.than the coalition at the moment, Labour would be in trouble.
:07:04. > :07:09.economy is the question of the day. The economy will be the question of
:07:09. > :07:16.the next election. It will not be about the next election, it will be
:07:16. > :07:25.about the economy. To not be ahead when things are really bad is bad.
:07:25. > :07:30.If they do not find a boy soon they have missed an opportunity. -- a
:07:30. > :07:35.buoys. You can be a toff and run the economy competently, people do
:07:35. > :07:42.not want and incompetent leader, even if they come across as an
:07:42. > :07:47.ordinary bloke like them. I guess we know why they're doing all this
:07:47. > :07:51.building up - trying to build up his personality and character.
:07:51. > :07:55.People getting to know him is the big issue of this conference. We
:07:55. > :07:57.will find that out in a moment because we will go to the
:07:57. > :08:00.conference. Now the big theme emerging from Labour conference
:08:01. > :08:03.today is education. There's Ed Miliband's plan for a shake-up in
:08:03. > :08:06.vocational courses, but there's also a big emphasis on the Labour
:08:07. > :08:09.leader's own time at school. No, not the primary school he went to
:08:09. > :08:12.with Boris Johnson, but the secondary school which he says
:08:12. > :08:15.taught him to get on with people whatever their background. And just
:08:15. > :08:17.to make sure no-one misses the point, Labour's going to show a
:08:17. > :08:23.party political broadcast on television on Wednesday night
:08:23. > :08:29.highlighting his school years. Here's a flavour. In the early 80s,
:08:29. > :08:37.I was the deputy head of a local comprehensive school in the London
:08:37. > :08:41.Borough of Camden. That is, of course, where I met Ed Bona -- Ed
:08:41. > :08:46.Miliband. The education I got was so much more than have to pass
:08:46. > :08:51.exams. It was about how to look after yourself, the world is a
:08:51. > :08:56.complex place with people of all kinds and all nationalities - all
:08:57. > :09:00.classes and races. That is the really important lesson in life.
:09:00. > :09:05.make a journey like that from a local comprehensive school to
:09:05. > :09:09.teaching at Harvard, you have probably got to have that knowledge.
:09:09. > :09:14.Coming from a comprehensive like I did, may be that does give you a
:09:15. > :09:19.different perspective when you end up somewhere like Harvard. I do not
:09:19. > :09:21.know. He came across as a very decent bloke. A few highlights of
:09:21. > :09:26.Labour's latest party political broadcast there, and you may just
:09:26. > :09:32.have got the message that Ed Miliband went to a comprehensive.
:09:32. > :09:35.If you have not come up watch it again on Wednesday. I would like to
:09:35. > :09:38.check that! To discuss that film and the mood at Labour conference
:09:38. > :09:43.in Manchester let's talk to Rosa Prince of the Daily Telegraph and
:09:43. > :09:49.Rowenna Davis of the New Statesman. I am presuming you have seen this.
:09:50. > :09:55.What did he make of it? It is very glossy and glowing - very Hollywood.
:09:55. > :09:59.Also a bit strange. Do you really need to a head from the deputy
:09:59. > :10:04.headmaster of Ed Miliband and his friend saying how good he was at
:10:04. > :10:10.maths. Do we need to hear how he was a top professor at Harvard? At
:10:10. > :10:17.one stage, Labour will accept they have got Ed Miliband, rather than
:10:17. > :10:22.telling us all about his problems. Just get on with it and get on with
:10:22. > :10:30.some policies and let's have something to hear from the rest of
:10:30. > :10:35.the Labour team. That is a point of view. But Ed Miliband is trying to
:10:36. > :10:41.do in that video is convinced the public that not all politicians are
:10:41. > :10:47.the same. Public perception is that all politicians belong to the top
:10:47. > :10:52.1%. He is saying, I have a story to tell. I was the son of migrants and
:10:52. > :10:57.I went to a comprehensive school, which is very different from David
:10:57. > :11:02.Cameron. It is interesting that most people have written him off.
:11:02. > :11:08.Two years ago, Ed Miliband was considered impossible as Labour
:11:08. > :11:11.leader. Bennett was inconceivable. Now it is possible, maybe even
:11:11. > :11:16.probable. When half of Labour supporters are not convinced he
:11:16. > :11:26.would make a Prime Minister, that Jenny has stalled if you like. Will
:11:26. > :11:28.this help him cut through, which he has not done yet? -- journey.
:11:28. > :11:31.year, he laid out a very philosophical vision about the
:11:31. > :11:37.nature of the country and responsible capitalism and the
:11:37. > :11:41.squeezed middle. That was dismissed by everyone. Now it is the
:11:41. > :11:45.competing grand that all parties are trying to win. What he has to
:11:45. > :11:49.do is to present those terms in concrete and practical ways which
:11:50. > :11:55.will resound with the people of the country. How we make a difference
:11:55. > :12:00.to them in an everyday sense? you knew him better, you would like
:12:00. > :12:06.him off - that is the point of this speech - and the point of this
:12:06. > :12:11.movie. That is what they're trying to say. As much as they are trying
:12:11. > :12:21.to say, this is Ed Miliband, get to know him and like him. They are
:12:21. > :12:27.also trying to say that David Cameron went to Eton. He is cashing
:12:27. > :12:31.in, though he is not going to say the word, pleb in his speech I he
:12:31. > :12:35.is highlighting the difference he feels there is between the
:12:35. > :12:40.Conservative Cabinet and his background. I been that is a bit
:12:40. > :12:47.dangerous. To say that most people went to comprehensive school,
:12:47. > :12:51.aren't I great? Do we not want a bit more grown up politics? Isn't
:12:51. > :12:55.the real problem that people do not know who he is yet? They do not
:12:55. > :13:02.know who he is. The most famous thing you could argue it is the
:13:02. > :13:10.fight with his brother. Exactly the stuff we need to move on a debate
:13:10. > :13:14.ENG keep telling the story. -- exactly. He will never be the
:13:15. > :13:19.ultimate charisma politician. It will be about whether a trust can
:13:19. > :13:24.win out over that sense of charisma. Ed Miliband has demonstrated he has
:13:24. > :13:29.a set of policy ideas which resonate where people are at the
:13:29. > :13:32.moment. If you keep telling that story over and again, he started
:13:32. > :13:37.off from a position where he was considered a write-off and now he
:13:37. > :13:41.has a voice and that form a way of talking about him today. I suppose
:13:41. > :13:46.there is a case to be made and Ed Miliband is trying to say he is a
:13:46. > :13:51.man of ideas was dug talking about being a nerd, to contrast
:13:51. > :13:57.presumably with what David Cameron is trying to say and that is he is
:13:57. > :14:02.a shallow. I think David Cameron does have a shallow problem. I'm
:14:02. > :14:08.not sure if the solution is to say how intelligent Ed Miliband is. You
:14:08. > :14:12.are right to raise the problem of David Miliband. The idea he is
:14:13. > :14:17.awkward and not a real person. As well as the tangible effects of
:14:17. > :14:21.having a family around, I think it played really badly in the public.
:14:21. > :14:27.People thought, I would not do that to my brother. That will continue
:14:27. > :14:32.to be something that plagues him. To go on about how bright he is and
:14:32. > :14:36.how smart. We had a Harvard professor on earlier in the week
:14:36. > :14:41.who talked about all sorts of strange things. I am not sure that
:14:41. > :14:45.is the answer. I think he needs to do a little more of David Cameron
:14:45. > :14:51.showing the family. I despise that as a means of campaigning but it
:14:51. > :15:01.seems to work for David Cameron. Perhaps that would rip the toxic
:15:01. > :15:03.
:15:03. > :15:07.Pointy head is an American expression for intellectuals. The
:15:07. > :15:17.mix in the administration used to talk about the pointy headed,
:15:17. > :15:24.
:15:24. > :15:26.That is what it is, pointy head. Consider this conundrum. You are an
:15:26. > :15:34.ordinary comprehensive school- educated son of a Marxist professor.
:15:34. > :15:37.You are lucky in intellect, but not in love. He joined a dating site.
:15:37. > :15:40.Imagine your horror when you turn up and find out that your date does
:15:40. > :15:47.not share your views on Prix Distribution, predators, producers
:15:47. > :15:53.or anything beginning with the letter P. Ed is happily hitched now.
:15:53. > :15:59.But love 6th Labour types need longer -- lovesick labour market
:15:59. > :16:04.types need worry no longer. They are being encouraged to register at
:16:05. > :16:09.leftwingdating. It even has suggestions as to where you might
:16:09. > :16:15.want to cook up with like minded to potential partners, like a romantic
:16:15. > :16:19.TUC demonstration, for example. The Daily Politics is not a dating
:16:19. > :16:29.service, in case it escaped your notice. But we could for queue up
:16:29. > :16:29.
:16:29. > :17:52.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 82 seconds
:17:52. > :17:55.Let's see if you can remember when To be in with a chance of winning a
:17:55. > :18:05.Daily Politics mug, send your answer to our special e-mail
:18:05. > :18:07.
:18:07. > :18:13.address. You can see the full terms I think Ed Miliband went to wake
:18:13. > :18:17.comprehensive... Education, education, education. Remember that,
:18:17. > :18:21.from Mr Blair? What about vocational training, vocational
:18:21. > :18:24.training, vocational training? It doesn't have the same ring to it.
:18:24. > :18:32.But it is something we are expecting to hear a bit of this
:18:32. > :18:38.Listen carefully. It seems everybody wants a bit of the France
:18:38. > :18:41.dans l'ecole at the moment. We have had Monsieur Gove's idea of the
:18:41. > :18:44.English baccalaureate certificate. And now Ed le Rouge wants to reform
:18:44. > :18:49.qualifications in England with a new Technical baccalaureate. Guess
:18:49. > :18:53.what, this would be a gold standard as well. He will say he wants to
:18:53. > :18:58.focus on the forgotten 50% of school-leavers who do not go to
:18:58. > :19:03.university. His aides say that only 1% of students on NVQ courses end
:19:03. > :19:06.up with jobs on some courses. Students who take the new Technical
:19:06. > :19:10.baccalaureate would also have to study English and maths as a strict
:19:10. > :19:14.condition. Details are vague, but he wants businesses to have a role
:19:14. > :19:18.in devising the courses. He also wants to give them �1 billion of
:19:18. > :19:23.government money to reshape apprenticeships, which teenagers
:19:23. > :19:25.can transferring to once they have got their Technical baccalaureate.
:19:25. > :19:35.The shadow Work and Pensions Secretary Liam Byrne joins us now
:19:35. > :19:39.from Manchester. Good to see you. Your education spokesman has
:19:39. > :19:44.criticised the Government for returning to a two tier system. But
:19:44. > :19:47.if you have, as you are proposing, one set of qualifications for
:19:47. > :19:53.academic kids and another for everybody else, that might be the
:19:53. > :19:58.right thing to do but it is two- tier in anybody's language? No, I
:19:58. > :20:03.don't think so. It's about making sure there are very high standards
:20:03. > :20:07.maintained and, indeed, created, no matter what route we take. Whether
:20:07. > :20:11.it is a vocational or academic. We have a system today that gives you
:20:11. > :20:15.a very clear path through, if you are taking an academic route. If
:20:15. > :20:23.you are 14 and you want to go to university, it's a pretty clear
:20:23. > :20:27.route. GCSE, A-levels, university, in to work. The same choice is not
:20:27. > :20:32.so clear if you are 14 and you want to go to a vocational route and
:20:32. > :20:36.into work. It's too complicated. We need to create a very clear route
:20:36. > :20:41.through and make sure that there are world-class qualifications
:20:41. > :20:45.available at 18. These changes we are announcing today are big ideas.
:20:45. > :20:49.I think they have been welcomed right across the business community.
:20:49. > :20:53.They are big ideas, interesting ideas. But it sounds like to tears
:20:54. > :20:58.to me, may be trying to make those equal, and they have succeeded in
:20:58. > :21:02.Germany in doing that, but I wonder if we could in Britain? How many
:21:02. > :21:06.kids from Eton or Harrow do you think will want to take the
:21:06. > :21:12.Technical baccalaureate? A I'm sorry, the sound quality is very
:21:12. > :21:16.bad. I apologise. I was saying that what he described sounded like a
:21:16. > :21:21.two-tier system to me. You were trying to make them of equal status,
:21:21. > :21:24.but there are still two, and only the Germans have managed to make
:21:24. > :21:29.them of equal status. I wondered if we could do that in this country.
:21:29. > :21:35.For example, how many kids from Eton or harrowed do you think would
:21:35. > :21:40.be applying to do the Technical baccalaureate? I don't know enough
:21:40. > :21:47.about the aspirations, I'm afraid, of students at Eton. A lot of
:21:47. > :21:51.people in constituencies like mine really hunger for that high quality
:21:51. > :21:54.vocational route. If you take Jaguar Land Rover, a big plant on
:21:54. > :21:58.the edge of my constituency, they operate apprenticeships right now
:21:58. > :22:01.that are harder to get into than Oxford. What they want is the
:22:01. > :22:04.wherewithal to expand the apprenticeship they have one of
:22:04. > :22:07.careful stop giving business a much more direct and in how those
:22:07. > :22:10.apprenticeships are shaped, created and expanded is something they are
:22:10. > :22:14.going to welcome. Crucially, you have got to have people applying
:22:14. > :22:16.for those apprenticeships that have the technical skills that
:22:16. > :22:20.businesses like Jaguar Land Rover needs. We've got to get the
:22:20. > :22:23.curriculum right and we got to make sure that maths and English is
:22:23. > :22:26.sustained wall of the way up to 18 as part of getting the
:22:27. > :22:30.qualification. I understand that and I understand you are involving
:22:30. > :22:37.business as well. You have some money available, or you say there
:22:37. > :22:41.will be, anyway. When Mr Miliband says he wants kids not only to
:22:41. > :22:47.aspire to Oxford and Cambridge, but two excellent technical colleges
:22:47. > :22:57.and delete vocational institutions. Can you name one in this country? -
:22:57. > :23:00.
:23:00. > :23:05.Of course, Britain has some of the best universities. Can he would
:23:05. > :23:08.name an elite vocational institution? We got to give
:23:08. > :23:12.business a much more direct say in the way that those institutions are
:23:12. > :23:15.created. They are not going to be formed by business on their own or
:23:15. > :23:18.buy the estate on their own. But the Government and business working
:23:18. > :23:24.together stands a fighting chance of getting it right. As you hinted
:23:24. > :23:29.like Germany have got this right. We know that the world is going to
:23:29. > :23:35.become far more competitive over the next few years, as the rise of
:23:35. > :23:38.China continues to change the environment for business. We do not
:23:38. > :23:43.compete when we leave 1 million young people out of work, as we do
:23:43. > :23:45.right now. I think there is one thing that it has shown, it is that
:23:45. > :23:49.we need far more sustained effort to get young people into work.
:23:49. > :23:53.Crucially, we need to make sure that young people are coming into a
:23:53. > :23:56.competitive labour market with the right skills to do the job. Isn't
:23:56. > :24:01.it indicative of the scale of the problem that you face, a problem
:24:01. > :24:06.that has been with us since Victorian times, that whereas we
:24:06. > :24:11.can all Niemi elite universities, you could not name an elite
:24:11. > :24:21.vocational institution? I think part of the complexity has been
:24:21. > :24:21.
:24:21. > :24:24.that it is a very complicated Watt for education. -- route. If you
:24:25. > :24:32.look at technical education, you get the sense that it is too
:24:32. > :24:36.complicated. There are different qualifications which are good for
:24:36. > :24:40.different types of trade. We want to bring some order to that, which
:24:40. > :24:43.is why we are saying that business needs to be intimately involved in
:24:43. > :24:47.figuring out what are the best qualifications for different
:24:47. > :24:51.vocational routes and different trades in different industries. I
:24:51. > :24:54.think that is what has been missing, that effective partnership between
:24:54. > :25:01.government and business. That is something that we have not mastered
:25:01. > :25:05.yet. I wish you luck on that, it has been a problem since the Royal
:25:06. > :25:10.Commission in 1868 identified the problem. We will see how you get
:25:10. > :25:15.going in trying to put it right. I want to move quickly on to the
:25:15. > :25:22.polling, which shows Labour's lead down to 3% in the Independent this
:25:22. > :25:26.morning. Even half of Labour voters do not think that Ed Miliband is
:25:26. > :25:31.prime-ministerial material. That isn't great as a backdrop to his
:25:32. > :25:39.speech? The polls had been bouncing around for a while. The cons
:25:39. > :25:41.distant trend as you look back is up. I think we forget rather too
:25:41. > :25:47.easily for the election result that we secured only a couple of years
:25:47. > :25:50.ago. We lost 1 million votes in the last election. We lost the services
:25:50. > :25:55.of over 90 MPs. It's one of the worst results in our party's
:25:55. > :25:58.history. What Ed Miliband has done over the last couple of years is an
:25:58. > :26:02.incredible achievement. If you ask people, which is the party that
:26:02. > :26:07.most relates to my values, which shares my values, Labour
:26:07. > :26:12.overwhelmingly wins. That is a radical shift of where we were two
:26:12. > :26:15.years ago. Two years ago, two- thirds of working people said that
:26:15. > :26:19.Labour was out of touch or seriously out of touch with my life
:26:19. > :26:27.and values. The White People's Party, that was a hell of an
:26:27. > :26:31.achievement. -- for a People's Party. Ed Miliband has shifted our
:26:31. > :26:35.party up from anywhere between 8 and 10 points. I think that's a
:26:35. > :26:39.hell of an achievement. I had two pollsters in the studio. Don't go
:26:39. > :26:43.away. Is he right to say that the consistent trend is an increase in
:26:44. > :26:49.the Labour lead? Not that we have seen over the last four was six
:26:49. > :26:54.months. It is coming under pressure. I think the real danger for Labour
:26:54. > :26:58.is that of but one issue, the economy, there has been no
:26:58. > :27:08.appreciable change, no shift at all interested that top team on the
:27:08. > :27:09.
:27:09. > :27:13.Labour side over the past 18 months. To quote an old phrase, you can't
:27:13. > :27:18.back a pig on market day. At some point, that figure has to come up
:27:18. > :27:23.for the Labour vote to be solidified. Given the state of the
:27:23. > :27:28.economy and the coalition, it's remarkable that people do not still
:27:28. > :27:33.trust your party on the economy? think there is a growing sense that
:27:33. > :27:37.the economy and the Government's economic plan has not worked out
:27:37. > :27:43.well. A lot of people put their trust in this government at the
:27:43. > :27:47.last election. They bought into the plan that was put on the table. Now
:27:47. > :27:54.they are deeply dissatisfied with the way that it is turning out.
:27:54. > :27:58.they still don't trust you. Well, look, we have still got a lot more
:27:58. > :28:02.to do to convince people that we are the right team for the job
:28:02. > :28:06.after 2015. What Ed has done is he has built a united team, he has set
:28:06. > :28:09.the tempo for the political debate. People are going to look at what
:28:09. > :28:13.specific policies we put on the table as we get closer to the
:28:13. > :28:17.election. I think people have got a clear sense that this government's
:28:17. > :28:20.economic plan has failed. They put us back into a double-dip recession.
:28:20. > :28:25.The only other country in Europe in that position is Italy. What does
:28:25. > :28:29.that mean for the debt? It means the death at the next election will
:28:29. > :28:39.be �450 billion higher than the last election. That is not a bad
:28:39. > :28:41.
:28:41. > :28:45.job successful start don't go away. We will see to do something about
:28:45. > :28:49.your sound. The boss of Britain's biggest union
:28:49. > :28:53.and Labour's biggest financial backer, Len McClusky, has called
:28:53. > :28:57.for Blairites to be kicked out of the Labour Party. We decided to
:28:57. > :29:02.send Adam out with his balls. No where at this conference will
:29:02. > :29:08.you see the word new anywhere near the word Labour. So, what should
:29:08. > :29:15.Blairites do? Should they stay or should they go? Stay. Blairites
:29:15. > :29:20.found their way to bring his party back into an exceptional form of
:29:20. > :29:25.progressive politics. Why should they go? We need a fresh start, we
:29:25. > :29:29.need to go in a new direction. It didn't do us any favours, we lost
:29:29. > :29:33.will stop is the party Blairite enough for you at the moment?
:29:33. > :29:37.probably about the right balance, the right level of unity. I am
:29:37. > :29:42.writing a book about why Blairites should never be allowed back.
:29:42. > :29:47.you like to give buyers a summary? They lost the traditional values.
:29:47. > :29:57.We looked down our traditional constituency. We had appalling
:29:57. > :30:02.
:30:02. > :30:12.social housing policies. I never And I will put it in her.
:30:12. > :30:21.
:30:21. > :30:27.grasped it in an incident -- in an I think the moment there is a new
:30:27. > :30:36.Labour government, Tony Blair will be addressing fringe meetings here.
:30:36. > :30:43.Are there any Blairites still around? You still spot 12-year-olds
:30:43. > :30:52.wearing suits. They seem to have a think about people wearing suits.
:30:52. > :30:57.That is not good. I am wearing a suit. I am a Blairite, so I think I
:30:58. > :31:05.had better vote for myself to stay. Is it lonely being a Blairite at
:31:05. > :31:11.the moment? It would never be lonely. There are so many of us.
:31:11. > :31:16.they have secret meetings? I had better not say on camera.
:31:16. > :31:21.Miliband is absolutely right to go back to the 1945 experience. That
:31:21. > :31:29.is what we need to do - get back and attach to our roots - in get
:31:29. > :31:39.the job done. I'm not worried that that does not sound very modern? --
:31:39. > :31:45.
:31:45. > :31:49.are you not worried? I do not think They were the people who got rid of
:31:49. > :31:55.Militant for being too left-wing. They are a party within a party and
:31:55. > :32:01.they have to go as well. I might just swap these around. That could
:32:01. > :32:09.be derailed few within the party. have just seen the book by Tony
:32:09. > :32:15.Blair. Is it going well? How many copies have you sold? So far, none.
:32:15. > :32:18.Tony, it looks like your acolytes are welcome - mostly welcome. That
:32:18. > :32:23.was our Adam with the Daily Politics moodbox, and Liam Byrne is
:32:23. > :32:29.still in Manchester for us. I hope you can still hear me. A little bit.
:32:29. > :32:33.I will shout out. We just watched that film. Someone talked about
:32:33. > :32:40.Blairites having to stay in the closet, it is too dangerous for
:32:40. > :32:46.them about in the wide open. Do you agree with that? I do not.
:32:46. > :32:50.Labour Party has always been brought. We draw people from all
:32:50. > :32:56.corners of the country. There are lots of shades of political opinion.
:32:56. > :32:58.We basically agreed on the important things. We agree our
:32:58. > :33:03.country is stronger when the pull together to help picture that out.
:33:03. > :33:09.When you see an injustice, you do not walk past it kite you do
:33:09. > :33:14.something about it. Why does the Unite General Secretary want to
:33:14. > :33:18.kick the New Labour cuckoos out of the nest? I think different people
:33:18. > :33:26.in the party will always have arguments within the party. That is
:33:26. > :33:30.more than an argument. Who is he talking about? I think a couple of
:33:30. > :33:35.people and the trade union movement had been concerned about one
:33:35. > :33:41.organisation which I helped to set up many years ago. We will always
:33:41. > :33:45.have arguments like this within the Labour Party. That is fine.
:33:45. > :33:50.Sometimes they are important in establishing an important principle.
:33:50. > :33:54.Reprint together lots of people with progressive views. Long may
:33:54. > :34:01.the Labour Party continued in that spirit. It does risky new internal
:34:01. > :34:06.war being waged. There were a large number of people being asked,
:34:06. > :34:11.should Blairites go? You admitted Len McCluskey and others are
:34:11. > :34:16.probably talking about you when they say Labour cuckoos are. How
:34:16. > :34:21.does it feel? You will forgive me for saying this argument is
:34:21. > :34:26.slightly fabricated. There is an enormous degree of unity across the
:34:26. > :34:31.labour movement and a great sense of purpose. There is an enormous
:34:31. > :34:37.amount of support for the programme we set out. In many ways, I cannot
:34:37. > :34:42.remember a time when the Labour Party was as united as it is now.
:34:42. > :34:48.There is pride in our record, a unity in the ranks and pride and
:34:48. > :34:53.determination to do what we need to win the next election. Interns of
:34:53. > :35:01.aspirational agenda, do you think Tony Blair would be pledging to
:35:01. > :35:06.increase the top rate of tax? that again. In terms of the
:35:06. > :35:13.Blairite aspiration agenda, would you and Tony Blair be supporting
:35:13. > :35:19.reverting back to the 50% top rate of tax? Look, at the rate of tax,
:35:19. > :35:23.both at the top and every point up to it, has got to reflect the state
:35:23. > :35:29.of the economy - the job that needs doing on the Budget. It needs to
:35:29. > :35:33.reflect what is at the core of the Labour Party, which is a sense of
:35:33. > :35:38.fairness. When there is a job to beat down, as we have ahead, when
:35:38. > :35:48.you have to get the deficit down and bring down national debt,
:35:48. > :35:48.
:35:49. > :35:55.Labour has been very clear. In the two get some judicious spending
:35:55. > :36:01.cuts. Which you and Tony Blair back reverting to 50% top rate of tax?
:36:01. > :36:07.Our position on tax is very clear. It was set out very nicely by it Ed
:36:07. > :36:11.Balls yesterday. The state of the perks, I suspect, will be a dog's
:36:11. > :36:15.breakfast. It is difficult for us to take snap decisions about the
:36:15. > :36:22.right tax strategy, as we approach the next general election. That is
:36:22. > :36:27.why Ed Balls was very clear. It will have to wait closer to the
:36:27. > :36:35.time and be part of the zeroed they Spending Review. That is common
:36:35. > :36:40.sense. It is sensible. -- 0 based Spending Review. That is how we
:36:40. > :36:46.have bounce-back. That is why we will win the next election. If you
:36:46. > :36:52.win, do you think anyone will leave you a note? I did not catch that.
:36:52. > :36:59.Do not worry. Maybe that was deliberate. He was very good
:36:59. > :37:03.natured in his inability to hear. What do you want to say? They had,
:37:03. > :37:07.in Tony Blair, the most successful Labour politician ever. They have
:37:07. > :37:11.these questions about whether they're welcome or not. It is
:37:11. > :37:15.accurate to have this question. When you talk to Labour people,
:37:15. > :37:19.they have them back to their factions. There is this argument
:37:19. > :37:22.going on. It is why they are struggling to make headway in the
:37:22. > :37:27.polls. They always talk about themselves. They talk about the
:37:27. > :37:30.Labour movement and not about the nation. They talk about their
:37:30. > :37:34.traditions and fairness, or comprehensives instead of the
:37:34. > :37:42.economy. They're talking about the wrong things. Be a talking about
:37:42. > :37:45.their own backgrounds. -- it they are talking. While it to spend time
:37:45. > :37:51.talking about the background of Phillida when you should be talking
:37:51. > :37:56.about the economy? -- why should you spend time talking about the
:37:56. > :37:58.background of your leader? We are in the fight of our lives. That's
:37:58. > :38:01.what the Shadow Scottish Secretary Margaret Curran told conference
:38:01. > :38:03.this morning and that only Labour could prevent the breakup of the
:38:03. > :38:06.United Kingdom and Scotland becoming independent. Labour are by
:38:06. > :38:09.far the biggest of the unionist parties and are leading the cross-
:38:09. > :38:14.party campaign to defeat the SNP's referendum on the question of
:38:14. > :38:16.independence which is likely to be held in 2014. Here's more of what
:38:16. > :38:25.Margaret Curran and Johann Lamont the leader of the Scottish Labour
:38:25. > :38:30.Party said to conference. We cannot afford to listen to those who said
:38:30. > :38:34.the answers to the Scottish problems is to build a wall around
:38:34. > :38:40.ourselves. The strength to overcome the challenges of our time come
:38:40. > :38:46.from binding together, not breaking apart. That is as true of the
:38:46. > :38:52.challenge we face as an Asian as cities of those we face in our
:38:52. > :38:57.families, our towns and our cities. -- as a nation. That is what
:38:57. > :39:01.separates us from the Tories and the SNP. Whether we are talking
:39:01. > :39:05.about improving skills come at raising living standards or
:39:05. > :39:09.deciding how we govern ourselves, we are led by one simple truth. By
:39:09. > :39:15.the strength of our common endeavour, we achieve more together
:39:15. > :39:19.than we achieve alone. This is not just a slogan that is written on
:39:19. > :39:24.our membership cards. It is a truce that is within our hearts. We
:39:24. > :39:28.believe it, we live by it, and, if we are honoured with the confidence
:39:28. > :39:34.of the Scottish people at the next election, we intend to govern by it.
:39:34. > :39:41.We are in the fight of our lives was up in 2014, Scotland faces a
:39:41. > :39:45.decision about whether or not to break up Britain. A decision would
:39:45. > :39:49.consequences for every Scot and every person across these islands.
:39:49. > :39:55.In the years that followed, we will have to fight again when we faced
:39:55. > :40:00.UK and Scottish general elections. On the one side, two parties a play
:40:00. > :40:04.the politics of division. On the other side, the Labour Party, that
:40:04. > :40:08.sees the strength in all of us to work together and succeed. It is
:40:08. > :40:15.wonderful to be here in Manchester and to remember this is not a
:40:15. > :40:19.foreign country. To people -- the people of this city face the same
:40:19. > :40:23.challenges as the people across the whole of Scotland. It is wonderful
:40:23. > :40:28.to be proud of being part of a Labour and trade union movement
:40:28. > :40:32.which speaks up for people across the whole of the United Kingdom. It
:40:33. > :40:38.speaks to a truce. It speaks to a truce that politics is about what
:40:38. > :40:42.you choose to be and what you choose to aspire to. It is not
:40:42. > :40:46.defined by way you are born but it is defined by what you want to do
:40:46. > :40:51.for the people of this country. The Labour and trade union movement
:40:51. > :40:54.will always speak up for those who need their voices to be heard.
:40:54. > :41:00.Conference, at Scottish Labour is not afraid to be honest with the
:41:00. > :41:05.people of Scotland. Not afraid to expose Alex Salmond and his tartan
:41:05. > :41:13.Tories, he tried to wear Arab clothing, while punishing people
:41:13. > :41:19.they should be protecting. -- our clothing. The SNP might not have
:41:19. > :41:23.the courage to be straight with Scottish people but we do. What
:41:23. > :41:28.Alex Salmond is doing with the Scottish finances is the equivalent
:41:28. > :41:34.of putting the Gas Bill in the draw. We have all done it - not opened a
:41:34. > :41:40.bill because we fear the consequences. We stuff it away and
:41:40. > :41:44.the reminder and but by no notice. We know that never ends well. He
:41:44. > :41:48.hopes we are not ask the tough questions about independence and he
:41:48. > :41:54.is desperate we do not ask the tough questions of the here and now.
:41:54. > :42:01.He knows that every Scottish family is bearing the cost of his slogans.
:42:01. > :42:05.We all know that his budget will go bust. He hopes that somehow he can
:42:05. > :42:09.keep the truth from the Scottish people until after the referendum.
:42:09. > :42:14.I will not wait until after the referendum to be honest with the
:42:15. > :42:20.people of Scotland. We need an honest debate now about how we
:42:20. > :42:26.protect the most abominable from the cats. Not everyone is going to
:42:26. > :42:31.like the solutions. -- the most vulnerable from the cuts. I'll be
:42:31. > :42:36.true to Labour values that we will not allow those who most need our
:42:36. > :42:39.support to pay the price for populist slogans. If we are to
:42:39. > :42:44.assure the elderly get help and support it is our duty to give them,
:42:44. > :42:48.we will have to ensure that those who have give to the have-nots. If
:42:48. > :42:53.we up to make sure the potential of not one of our children is lost,
:42:53. > :42:59.that means those with plenty must share for the common good. If
:42:59. > :43:04.Scotland stands for anything, it is community. We, in Scottish Labour,
:43:04. > :43:09.will put that community together, to stand as one and reject the
:43:09. > :43:13.attempts by Alex Salmond to divide our society. The Labour Party
:43:13. > :43:20.fights for the poor and the bar honourable. The Labour Party fights
:43:20. > :43:25.for the strong and, together, the Labour Party in every part of the
:43:25. > :43:31.United Kingdom to rebuild our nations and rebuild our communities.
:43:31. > :43:35.Thank you, conference. That was Johann Lamont at the party
:43:35. > :43:41.conference. What other numbers at the moment in terms of this
:43:41. > :43:45.referendum on independence? numbers have not really changed.
:43:45. > :43:53.Long-term studies show that support for independence there is between
:43:53. > :43:57.around the quarter and about 35%. - - berries. It has been remarkably
:43:58. > :44:05.static. Nothing has really changed. The campaign has been under way for
:44:05. > :44:11.some time. It is not heading -- edging towards the majority. It all
:44:11. > :44:18.depends on what happens in 2014, the date of the referendum. It
:44:18. > :44:23.depends whether it is one question, two questions, are staged process,
:44:23. > :44:29.whatever it is, we will be sure that it will mean another five
:44:29. > :44:33.years of the yoke of Conservative rule for freedom, sunny uplands,
:44:33. > :44:40.self-determination. So far, the Scottish public do not seem
:44:40. > :44:46.convinced. It will be again the economy, when to it? Johann Lamont
:44:46. > :44:51.will try to set out the fact that Scotland, they feel, will be worse
:44:51. > :44:56.separate from the rest of the United Kingdom and together.
:44:56. > :45:00.will raise great fears. You cannot be be changed candidate - the
:45:00. > :45:05.change message when everything is against you and people are
:45:05. > :45:15.frightened. It is very hard to see any campaign, however brilliant,
:45:15. > :45:18.
:45:18. > :45:23.overcoming an almost two to one 90 minutes before Mr Miliband takes
:45:23. > :45:28.the stage for his speech. We are back at 2:00pm on BBC Two for the
:45:28. > :45:31.build-up. As part of that, we are joined by Sadiq Kahn. Welcome to
:45:31. > :45:36.the programme. I hope that you can hear me all right. Are we coming
:45:36. > :45:42.through loud and clear? Loud and clear. We really missed you in
:45:42. > :45:48.Manchester, we were devastated yet that you are not here in person.
:45:48. > :45:52.Let's see if you say that after this interview. Mr Miliband... I
:45:52. > :45:55.can buy in the earpiece, if it gets tough. I think we had that before!
:45:56. > :46:00.Mr Miliband is claiming that because he went to a comprehensive
:46:00. > :46:05.school, he is in touch with ordinary people. Logically, that
:46:05. > :46:08.means that Tony Blair, Harriet Harman, Jack Straw, Ed Balls, Chuka
:46:08. > :46:15.Umunna, Clement Attlee, they were not in touch with ordinary people,
:46:15. > :46:19.the way that Mr Miliband is? Now, look, Ed's link with ordinary
:46:19. > :46:24.people is not because of his education. It is because of what he
:46:24. > :46:28.believes in, what he does now as a person. But the importance of his
:46:28. > :46:32.education is that it defines who he is. It's his life experiences that
:46:32. > :46:36.dictate why he is so passionate about vocational training. He
:46:36. > :46:40.remembers his mates that were not good at doing exams, thrown on the
:46:40. > :46:44.scrapheap. That is what motivates him. It is part of what he is. It's
:46:44. > :46:47.relevant and important to talk about his back story. He is
:46:47. > :46:52.claiming, and he does in his party political broadcast, that because
:46:52. > :46:56.he has been to a comprehensive he has a special connection with
:46:56. > :47:00.ordinary people that these public school kids, including a Labour
:47:00. > :47:06.public school kids, don't. If it doesn't mean that, it doesn't mean
:47:06. > :47:10.anything? Look, I know you have been to an ordinary state school, a
:47:10. > :47:13.local comprehensive, you make mates from all sorts of different
:47:13. > :47:19.backgrounds. You understand challenges that you do of not face.
:47:19. > :47:22.If you come from a stable home, but your mate does not, you get empathy.
:47:22. > :47:28.When you grow up to be a politician, you get to understand more about
:47:28. > :47:32.your constituents, the challenges that families have around the
:47:32. > :47:37.country. I think what it is doing in today's speech is telling the
:47:37. > :47:41.country who he is, where his family came from, his early life, why it
:47:41. > :47:45.is important to who he is today. But it's a bit of an insult to the
:47:45. > :47:50.British people to try to bake out that Mr Miliband is just one of
:47:50. > :47:55.them, an ordinary British person. You and I know he is as much as
:47:55. > :48:00.part of the elite as Mr Cameron, just a different elite. How many
:48:00. > :48:08.kids of his age went home after school to socialist dinner-parties
:48:08. > :48:11.with Tony Benn and Tariq Ali? Did you? One of the criticisms that you
:48:11. > :48:16.and others make is that the country doesn't know enough about Ed
:48:16. > :48:21.Miliband. That is the reason why, Ed is trying to tell the country
:48:21. > :48:24.about himself. But he's not giving us the true picture, he is giving
:48:24. > :48:29.as a distorted picture that he is one of the boys. From his
:48:29. > :48:36.background, his father, his dining companions, he is North London
:48:36. > :48:39.Labour aristocracy. If you go to the sort of school that Ed went to,
:48:39. > :48:44.many of your viewers went to, you have a different life experience to
:48:44. > :48:47.someone at a public school. That is a fact. We're not going to
:48:47. > :48:52.caricature or Ed based on his education. We are going to tell the
:48:52. > :48:54.country about the importance that was to who he is. He understands
:48:54. > :48:59.the challenges that young people face today. He understands that if
:48:59. > :49:02.you don't get a job at 16 or 17, there is a danger you're thrown on
:49:02. > :49:06.the scrapheap. He understands that some people are good at exams, so
:49:06. > :49:11.they go to the best universities, nothing against that, but some
:49:11. > :49:14.people don't. He emphasises with people who do not. That is why he
:49:14. > :49:19.is passionate about changing the way we treat people that don't go
:49:19. > :49:23.to good universities that want to get vocational training. If that is
:49:23. > :49:30.the raison d'etre of the Labour Party, how come, after 30 years of
:49:30. > :49:35.Labour government, at Mr Mellor and's comprehensive, Haverstock,
:49:36. > :49:42.52% failed to get 5 decent GCSEs? Not good enough, and we should be
:49:42. > :49:47.doing better. That is appalling. There were more people doing better
:49:47. > :49:51.up at school in 2010 than 9097. But the progress that should have been
:49:51. > :49:54.made was not made. There were people going to university in 2010
:49:54. > :50:01.that would not in 1997. There were all people doing apprenticeships.
:50:01. > :50:05.But you are right to criticise us for not doing enough. So we need to
:50:05. > :50:08.learn what we did right and what we did not get right as well. That is
:50:08. > :50:13.why we need to make up those things that we did not get right as we
:50:13. > :50:17.should have done. Do you think emphasising that he went to a
:50:17. > :50:22.comprehensive school, do you think that will mean that more than two
:50:22. > :50:29.out of 10, as the polls show at the moment, will regard him as prime
:50:29. > :50:33.ministerial? I think the wartime people spend listening to Ed, the
:50:33. > :50:38.more they understand about him, the more they will think he was prime-
:50:38. > :50:42.ministerial. Did you go home to dinner with Tony Benn and Tariq Ali,
:50:42. > :50:47.as a kid? I think I would have preferred to be in my a playground,
:50:47. > :50:51.and having supper with those guys. Maybe that does make you normal.
:50:51. > :50:55.But it was not the experience of your leader.
:50:55. > :51:00.I am glad you could hear us. That's for joining us. I am glad that you
:51:00. > :51:06.are missing me. Aloft, aloft. Please come back next year. -- a
:51:06. > :51:10.He did sound genuine, even after the interview.
:51:11. > :51:14.Not log until the Labour leader gets to his feet. You can watch it
:51:14. > :51:19.here. In the years since Mr Miliband last addressed the
:51:19. > :51:22.conference we have learned about prey distribution, predators and
:51:22. > :51:32.producers. It is like being in one of his Harvard lectures.
:51:32. > :51:42.
:51:42. > :51:45.This time last year, few people thought Ed Miliband was on the road
:51:45. > :51:50.to Downing Street. If you had said the words Prime Minister Ed
:51:50. > :51:54.Miliband, many MPs, including Labour MPs, would have giggled. Few
:51:54. > :52:01.are laughing today. The idea has been taken seriously as a
:52:01. > :52:06.possibility and, by some, as probability. So, what has changed?
:52:06. > :52:09.His predator and producing speech at the conference was an important
:52:09. > :52:13.restatement of social democracy, yet was widely mocked because he
:52:13. > :52:18.failed to adequately explain what he meant. Are you on the side of
:52:18. > :52:22.the wealth creator or the asset strippers? The producers or the
:52:22. > :52:27.predators? Producers trained, invest, invent, sell. Things
:52:27. > :52:37.Britain does brilliantly. But not enough. Predators are just
:52:37. > :52:43.
:52:43. > :52:51.interested in the fast buck, taking But, since then, he has motored. He
:52:51. > :52:56.headed the convoy, calling for Sir Fred Goodwin to be reduced to plain
:52:56. > :52:59.old Fred the Shred. He accelerated, by demanding that the State Bank of
:52:59. > :53:03.Stephen Hester must not withdraw a huge bonus. There is no question
:53:03. > :53:07.that Stephen Hester has done a decent job. But you don't just need
:53:07. > :53:12.to do a decent job to get a �1 million bonus when everybody else
:53:12. > :53:15.is having living standards hit. hit top speed by a demanding that
:53:15. > :53:20.Bob Diamond of Barbara Barclays account be closed over the rate
:53:21. > :53:25.fixing scandal. I don't believe the current leadership of Barclays can
:53:25. > :53:29.take it to the current crisis. They have presided over a culture in
:53:29. > :53:36.which this behaviour happened. his biggest breakthrough was from a
:53:36. > :53:40.stroke of political luck. George Osborne's half baked pasty tax
:53:40. > :53:44.budget, a gift for Labour, as well as for millionaires. Let's have
:53:44. > :53:53.some tax transparency. Hands up in the Cabinet if you are going to
:53:53. > :53:56.benefit from the income tax cut. Come on! The undermining of the
:53:56. > :54:01.coalition's we are all in this together justification for
:54:01. > :54:04.austerity was a windfall for Labour. The party did well in May's local
:54:04. > :54:14.elections. They were winning councils even in the south of
:54:14. > :54:14.
:54:14. > :54:17.England. Government shambles and big Labour poll Leeds saw a newly
:54:17. > :54:21.confident Ed Miliband confront David Cameron at Prime Ministers
:54:22. > :54:25.questions, bashing the MP over his links to the Murdoch empire. When
:54:25. > :54:27.he refuses to come clean on his and the Chancellor's meetings with
:54:27. > :54:32.Rupert Murdoch, the shadow war sleaze will hang over this
:54:32. > :54:36.government. He also came up that a good line to deflect Tory attacks
:54:36. > :54:40.of Labour's links to the unions during the public service pensions
:54:40. > :54:48.rights. The difference is, unlike him, I'm not going to demonise the
:54:48. > :54:52.dinner lady, the Clean Air, the nurse. -- cleaner. People who earn
:54:52. > :54:56.in a week what the Chancellor pays for his annual skiing holiday.
:54:56. > :55:02.has freshened up his top team, promoting bright new faces such as
:55:02. > :55:08.Chuka Umunna, the shadow Business Secretary, and they shadow Treasury
:55:08. > :55:18.brain Rachel Reeves, both untarnished by the Blair-Brown
:55:18. > :55:24.Yet doubts continue to persist about Miliband. He likes his party
:55:24. > :55:31.in the polls and, two and-a-half years is a long, winding, potholed
:55:31. > :55:39.road in politics. Opponents exploit tensions between Ed Miliband and Ed
:55:39. > :55:44.Balls. The mocking odd Ed jibes no longer sting. His job is not under
:55:44. > :55:48.threat, as it was last year. But what would Labour do in power and
:55:48. > :55:53.who is Ed Miliband? Quite a lot of people seem not to know. I hope
:55:53. > :55:57.that we will get David... I hope that we will get Ed Miliband
:55:57. > :56:03.elected as Prime Minister. This deal is far from sealed. An
:56:03. > :56:12.unsealed deal can be reversed. Stephan Shakespeare, if you look
:56:12. > :56:17.back at the year, we saw their clips of things like Rupert Murdoch,
:56:17. > :56:22.Ed Miliband's response on bank as bonuses, have those things actually
:56:22. > :56:27.helped improve his ratings, or the party ratings? Have they worked?
:56:27. > :56:31.think they have. If you look at the monthly polling, you see his
:56:31. > :56:35.numbers going up. They are still buyer, let's not forget. But
:56:35. > :56:40.they're going up, month-by-month. - - they are still dire. He is doing
:56:40. > :56:48.that, by attacking the Government. That is the money shot, as it were.
:56:48. > :56:51.It is not by biggie himself up, it is attacking the Government. They
:56:51. > :56:56.have seen that and they like that. He wins there, there might be
:56:56. > :57:00.little spikes in his favour. But what Stephan Shakespeare is saying
:57:00. > :57:05.that he needs to do more to say what Labour would do, what he would
:57:05. > :57:09.do and what it would mean. Does that come through? It does. For
:57:09. > :57:14.Labour to do better, it requires two things. Firstly, they have got
:57:14. > :57:17.to be clearer about what they stand for, what they would do and, also,
:57:17. > :57:21.how they have learned the lessons of the past. They don't just appear
:57:21. > :57:26.in a vacuum. Though it has come to this with the baggage of what
:57:26. > :57:30.happened in 2008 and 2010, how Labour left the coffers. The other
:57:30. > :57:34.thing that they can do is explore it those opportunities that the
:57:34. > :57:38.Conservatives have given them. The most significant one of the last 12
:57:38. > :57:42.months has been the budget, which was calamitous. You saw the Tory
:57:42. > :57:45.polls just go down. And they haven't really recovered. George
:57:45. > :57:48.Osborne's ratings have not recovered. They did try to
:57:48. > :57:52.capitalise. But they did not capitalise enough in terms of
:57:52. > :57:56.sustained poll ratings? That is where I disagree with Andrew. I
:57:56. > :57:59.don't think it is about what Labour would do instead. It's two and-a-
:57:59. > :58:04.half years out. They've got a lot of time to build up the policy
:58:04. > :58:09.front. They need to get the bashing of the Conservatives, over and over
:58:09. > :58:13.again. That is what a score. People are feeling frustrated, they are
:58:13. > :58:18.expected, in opposition, to do that. It's quite interesting. Bennett is
:58:18. > :58:23.a case of timing. That is where the debate lies. Should it be more
:58:23. > :58:27.conservative bashing or should it be more about themselves? But you
:58:28. > :58:32.don't have time to answer. Say goodbye! Thanks to both of you. The
:58:32. > :58:36.One o'clock News is starting on BBC One in a moment. Don't forget to
:58:36. > :58:40.switch back because we will be here in an hour on BBC Two to bring you
:58:40. > :58:43.live and uninterrupted coverage of Ed Miliband's conference speech. We
:58:44. > :58:47.are going to get ready for that. It's only an hour. We have taken a
:58:47. > :58:51.leaf out of Ed Balls book. He said he prepared for his speech at the