:00:41. > :00:44.Good afternoon and welcome to the Daily Politics. The party
:00:44. > :00:48.conference bandwagon enters the home straight as the Conservatives
:00:48. > :00:52.prepare for their little shindig in Birmingham next week. But can David
:00:52. > :00:56.Cameron rally the troops like Ed Miliband did? He has a bus on his
:00:56. > :01:00.hands. Behind in the polls and facing criticism from all sides
:01:00. > :01:06.about his leadership. We will speak to one of his ministers.
:01:06. > :01:11.The got a spare 10 billion euros? De EU has a past be run out of cash.
:01:11. > :01:14.We will speak to the French MEP who thinks it is time to cough up.
:01:14. > :01:19.Thousands of BBC employees as well as other public sector workers have
:01:19. > :01:23.been helped to pay less tax. MPs issued a damning report.
:01:24. > :01:33.And who is up, who is down? We will have a round-up of the last seven
:01:34. > :01:34.
:01:34. > :01:38.All that in the next hour. With us is Rachel Sylvester from the Times
:01:38. > :01:42.and Steve Richards on the Independent. Welcome to both of you.
:01:42. > :01:47.Let's start with the news that tax arrangements for some public sector
:01:47. > :01:50.workers have been criticised by MPs. A Public Accounts Committee report
:01:50. > :01:53.says too many make their own arrangements to pay tax and
:01:53. > :01:58.national insurance, which could allow them to pay less. The chair
:01:58. > :02:02.of the committee, Margaret Hodge, says public sector workers have to
:02:02. > :02:08.be whiter than white. If you work in the public service,
:02:08. > :02:13.it is upon you to lead by example. Hard-working families up and down
:02:13. > :02:16.the country are paying a lot in tax, and it is wrong that individuals
:02:16. > :02:20.working in the public service, whose money comes from the tax
:02:20. > :02:24.those families pay, are not paying their share.
:02:24. > :02:29.Margaret Hodge. Rachel Sylvester, at what point does it become
:02:29. > :02:34.immoral to try to reduce the amount of tax that you pay? It is not
:02:34. > :02:39.illegal. The Times has had a huge reaction
:02:39. > :02:43.to its campaign on tax avoidance. There is a difference between
:02:43. > :02:47.something illegal and something immoral. There is a grey area, but
:02:47. > :02:52.I think there are times when you are within the law that it is not
:02:52. > :02:56.right. Interestingly, politicians have cottoned on to this. It is a
:02:56. > :03:03.way in which the Tory party can be criticising wealthy billionaire's
:03:03. > :03:09.who are avoiding tax, and their way of making themselves seem not just
:03:09. > :03:13.on the side of the rich. Labour get to hit at them, too.
:03:13. > :03:18.What about it being targeted at public sector workers or those who
:03:18. > :03:22.work in the public sector? Somehow they should not be allowed to
:03:22. > :03:27.reduce their tax rate, even within the law?
:03:27. > :03:31.Margaret Hodge summed it up when she said that they are being paid
:03:31. > :03:36.through the taxation system. Therefore they have a moral
:03:36. > :03:44.obligation. I think others do as well, actually. I can't see the
:03:44. > :03:49.case why some should pay 40% or whatever and others 21%. There is
:03:49. > :03:54.no logical moral argument justifying it. Also, now, we need
:03:54. > :03:58.the money. Where do you draw the line? You
:03:59. > :04:03.agree with it in principle, saying it was a populist campaign. Where
:04:03. > :04:07.do you draw the line on avoidance? How do you legislate for people not
:04:07. > :04:11.to have accountants who can reduce tax?
:04:11. > :04:16.There are mechanisms that are clearly aggressively designed to
:04:16. > :04:20.avoid paying tax. It is not just using the system in a way that is
:04:21. > :04:27.clearly fair and above board. It is aggressively going out and trying
:04:27. > :04:31.to avoid paying tax. That is wrong. Let's move on to our quiz. Today is
:04:31. > :04:36.the 50th anniversary of the release of the first James Bond film, Dr No.
:04:36. > :04:46.The question for today is which Cabinet minister has a Bond poster
:04:46. > :04:46.
:04:46. > :04:51.of themselves? David Cameron, William Hague, Theresa May, or Eric
:04:51. > :04:55.Pickles? What a fine bunch! At the end of
:04:55. > :05:00.the show, our guests will try to give us the right answer.
:05:00. > :05:03.As David Cameron... Something for you to think about! As David
:05:03. > :05:07.Cameron packs for Birmingham, he may think that the backdrop to the
:05:07. > :05:10.conference is not all he would have hoped for. The blunder over the
:05:10. > :05:14.West Coast rail franchise has revived claims that his government
:05:14. > :05:18.is incompetent, perhaps it is still in the grip of the budget
:05:18. > :05:22.omnishambles we started back in the sprint. It Miliband's pitch to
:05:22. > :05:26.represent One Nation at his conference has caught some movement
:05:26. > :05:32.in the polls, with 27% of people in one survey saying the Labour leader
:05:32. > :05:37.would make the best Prime Minister. Only just behind Mr Cameron, who is
:05:37. > :05:40.on 31%. And Mr Cameron has got friends like Boris Johnson
:05:40. > :05:44.challenging the way he is leading the party. The London mayor has
:05:44. > :05:48.accused the government of complacency over airport capacity
:05:48. > :05:52.in the south-east of England. Liam Fox from the right of the party
:05:52. > :05:58.says today that the Tories are being ban by a metropolitan elite.
:05:58. > :06:03.Wonder who he could have in mind! Believes Mr Cameron with a tricky
:06:03. > :06:07.balancing act. Does he defend the coalition or find some red meat for
:06:07. > :06:12.the party faithful? Let's be to our political correspondent, Chris
:06:12. > :06:16.Mason. Let's look at the slogan. Britain can deliver. Is it an
:06:16. > :06:20.attempt to reclaim the One Nation idea from Ed Miliband?
:06:20. > :06:28.To an extent. The banner has just been unveiled in the last hour or
:06:28. > :06:34.so. The security sweep is under way before people start to arrive.
:06:34. > :06:41.Britain can deliver - the response to all of the Labour stuff we had
:06:41. > :06:46.earlier in the week. The emphasis is on a job that is continuing to
:06:46. > :06:51.be done. That is the subtext of the slogan. The emphasis is that 25% of
:06:51. > :06:54.the deficit has been paid down. There is big reform going on in
:06:54. > :06:59.education in England, in the welfare state and the benefits
:06:59. > :07:02.system, and there is more to achieve. They say, they will argue,
:07:02. > :07:07.that the Conservatives can achieve it in coalition and even more
:07:07. > :07:14.quickly if there was a Conservative majority government after 2015. The
:07:14. > :07:18.party chairman started off a few days of banging the Conservative
:07:18. > :07:23.trump. He has given an interview to the Evening Standard. He was asked,
:07:23. > :07:33.will be Conservatives show mercy to the Lib Dems at the election?
:07:33. > :07:33.
:07:34. > :07:38.Answer? Absolutely not. Lord Ashcroft, the former chairman,
:07:38. > :07:41.has carried out some polling to find out why certain groups are not
:07:41. > :07:45.voting Conservative. Interesting reading?
:07:45. > :07:50.Very interesting. What he has done, and of course, any attempt to
:07:50. > :07:55.conduct a poll and then trunk up segments of society into categories
:07:55. > :08:03.and attach a label, that runs a risk of being lampooned as quiet
:08:03. > :08:07.that people, it be like in the sitcoms. It is a thoughtful piece
:08:07. > :08:11.of work, though. It also about suspicious strivers. It seems a bit
:08:11. > :08:17.like the Labour idea of the squeeze to mid-off. He feared that the
:08:17. > :08:21.Conservatives have alienated those people who fear that there are
:08:21. > :08:25.those who are reliant on the state, who are helped by government, and
:08:25. > :08:35.there are those at the top of the pecking order who are helped by the
:08:35. > :08:36.
:08:36. > :08:39.state as well. But there are those suspicious drivers -- strivers who
:08:39. > :08:44.have Conservative ideals but fear the state does not help them
:08:44. > :08:49.sufficiently. He fears those people have peeled off in the direction of
:08:49. > :08:52.Labour in the last couple of years. If the Conservatives can secure the
:08:52. > :08:56.majority, they need to win them back before 2015.
:08:56. > :09:00.With us now is the Conservative Home Office minister James
:09:00. > :09:04.Brokenshire. Welcome back to the Daily Politics. We just discussed
:09:04. > :09:11.the slogan. If you can't deliver the West Coast Mainline, the at
:09:11. > :09:15.said the government has earned irritation for incompetence?
:09:15. > :09:22.-- do you accept the government has earned a reputation for
:09:22. > :09:27.incompetence? The mood of the conference will be
:09:27. > :09:30.how we need to continue to deliver for Britain, supporting those
:09:30. > :09:34.people who are striving in difficulty to ensure that we are
:09:34. > :09:39.helping those in to work. Some things we have already done, like
:09:39. > :09:42.cutting the deficit, the work programmes supporting 330,000
:09:42. > :09:45.people into employment. It is that Focus that we will have during the
:09:45. > :09:54.conference. But what will be at the forefront
:09:54. > :09:56.will be the tax bill of a least �40 million because of this West Coast
:09:57. > :10:00.Mainline fiasco. It is right Bedi Transport
:10:00. > :10:08.Secretary is taking the steps in terms of the two reviews being
:10:08. > :10:12.taken. -- it is right that the Transport Secretary. That is the
:10:12. > :10:15.right thing for him to do. He is taking clear action in this regard.
:10:15. > :10:21.Clearly, we need to sort the issue out.
:10:21. > :10:27.As a Home Office minister, you must be pleased the focus is not on your
:10:27. > :10:34.department for once. Are you relieved?
:10:34. > :10:39.The Home Office is always an interesting place. But no, our
:10:39. > :10:43.focus is on securing the public, making sure we have the police
:10:43. > :10:49.doing the job we want them to do, free of the bureaucracy of the last
:10:49. > :10:53.government. That is our focus, and clearly, the issues that the Home
:10:53. > :10:56.Secretary and also the Justice Secretary will be taking forward,
:10:56. > :11:00.they are how we can deliver the scent of safety. The Justice
:11:00. > :11:04.Secretary has met an interesting comments about how we can get
:11:04. > :11:13.community punishment. We will come onto that. Do the
:11:13. > :11:19.comments attributed to be Andrew -- to Andromede due -- to be to do
:11:19. > :11:22.Andrew Mitchell will be harmful? That was utterly wrong.
:11:23. > :11:28.It was right for him not to go to the conference?
:11:28. > :11:36.That is a matter for Andrew. He has made that decision. That is for him
:11:36. > :11:41.to decide. We do respect our police at this time, when we have seen of
:11:41. > :11:46.the real dangers that they can be involved in. I understand that.
:11:46. > :11:56.That is why we want to support the police, ensuring that government
:11:56. > :12:02.
:12:03. > :12:09.itself, central government, is His Boris Johnson...
:12:09. > :12:13.I think people will vote for the Conservatives. They will understand
:12:13. > :12:16.the power people will have over law and order on their streets.
:12:16. > :12:21.Somebody else who talks about that in London is the mayor, Boris
:12:21. > :12:27.Johnson. He is a friend of the government, or an enemy?
:12:27. > :12:33.He is a fantastic advocate of the Conservative Party and of London. I
:12:33. > :12:36.worked alongside him during the Olympics, as well as the Prime
:12:36. > :12:40.Minister. It is a powerful show they can bring to the fore. I think
:12:40. > :12:44.he will be a great advocate for the party. He is doing his bit for
:12:44. > :12:48.London, in his way. It is right that he should do so.
:12:48. > :12:54.But do you agree with his comments criticising the government over the
:12:54. > :12:57.aviation capacity? He has criticised them a lot of what he
:12:57. > :13:04.called a timetable for economic catastrophe, unless a deal with the
:13:04. > :13:09.lack of capacity in the South East. I think we need to base this on the
:13:09. > :13:13.evidence. That is what the government is doing, looking at the
:13:13. > :13:18.various capacities. Is that helpful to the government?
:13:18. > :13:21.Boris has got to do his job as Mayor of London, seeing what he
:13:21. > :13:27.thinks is the right thing for him to be putting forward. That is his
:13:27. > :13:34.own perspective. What we need to do is to look at the evidence. But
:13:34. > :13:38.what the Government is intending to do. We need to get this decision
:13:38. > :13:42.right, understanding what the aviation industry needs.
:13:42. > :13:46.His Boris Johnson going to be a help or a hindrance at this
:13:46. > :13:51.conference? I think he will be a hindrance. He
:13:51. > :13:56.is going to show people an alternative. There is a tetchy mood
:13:56. > :13:59.in the party because of the polls. People will have a different
:13:59. > :14:04.analysis about the ratings, and Boris has his. The interesting
:14:04. > :14:14.thing coming out of the Labour conference, when Ed Miliband to be
:14:14. > :14:14.
:14:14. > :14:19.a One Nation label, is whether David Cameron can come back. --
:14:19. > :14:23.went Ed Miliband took the One Nation label. You have got people
:14:23. > :14:27.like Boris in the wings. If Cameron can put a stamp on the party, that
:14:27. > :14:33.will put an end to it. A what does David Cameron need to
:14:33. > :14:43.do, then? Dusty answer the question that has been outlined or does he
:14:43. > :14:57.
:14:57. > :15:03.To be honest, he cannot do anything. Governments have set their course
:15:03. > :15:10.by now. Budgets, Queen's speeches, autumn reports were the course is
:15:10. > :15:16.set. As Rachel suggested, after an early flirtation with the centre
:15:16. > :15:20.ground, one nation Toryism, whether you disagree with it or agree with
:15:20. > :15:25.it, on the right, whether it is the economic policies or the public
:15:25. > :15:29.service reforms. It has been closer to that part of the political
:15:29. > :15:36.spectrum in recent years. I don't think a speech on Wednesday morning
:15:36. > :15:40.will change very much. What do you say to that? I think we have the
:15:40. > :15:47.opportunity which I think will be taken, to set out the tough
:15:47. > :15:53.decisions we need to take to get the economy right. We have cut the
:15:53. > :16:01.deficit by a quarter already. deficit that is going back up again.
:16:01. > :16:07.We have created 1.2 million private sector jobs. Also things on welfare
:16:07. > :16:11.reform as well. If you are in work, work will always pay. We have a
:16:11. > :16:17.culture that is the hand of to assist people into work, rather
:16:17. > :16:22.than the handout dependency culture we had under Labour. We have fancy
:16:22. > :16:26.rhetoric from the Labour Party setting out some slogans, but very
:16:26. > :16:33.light on substance. You will see in the coming week, a real substance
:16:33. > :16:37.on what is happening. The back empty rhetoric has delivered its 14.
:16:37. > :16:43.Lead for Labour and even more worrying, David Cameron's poll
:16:43. > :16:51.ratings are starting to slide against Ed Miliband. Do you see Ed
:16:51. > :16:56.Miliband as an s it? My focus is ensuring we get the country right.
:16:56. > :16:59.We are going to underline the lack of vision, lack of focus and the
:16:59. > :17:05.fact that the Labour leader has been looking to the past in terms
:17:05. > :17:09.of trying to draw upon a previous Conservative Prime Minister. If he
:17:09. > :17:14.wants to use Conservative slogans, it is up to him. But he is not
:17:14. > :17:19.learning, accepting the mistakes the last Labour Government made. So
:17:19. > :17:22.how can he offer the future? It is an important message to give on the
:17:22. > :17:28.mistakes that were made, how we are dealing with those problems and
:17:28. > :17:31.delivering for Britain. Thanks very much, have a good conference. Now,
:17:31. > :17:35.have you got a spare ten billion euros? No? Well we might be asked
:17:35. > :17:38.to help out a bit after a warning this week that the European Union
:17:38. > :17:40.needs some extra cash to tide it over until Christmas. Alain
:17:40. > :17:43.Lamassoure, the French MEP who chairs the European Parliament's
:17:43. > :17:47.Budget Committee, says the EU is running out of money and needs an
:17:47. > :17:54.extra ten billion euros to finance its projects up to the end of the
:17:54. > :18:00.year. Monsieur Lamassoure joins us now from Paris.
:18:00. > :18:08.Are you saying the EU's 10 billion euros overspends the this year? It
:18:08. > :18:13.is an awful lot of money. It is an order of magnitude, the European
:18:13. > :18:23.Commission will be able to precise the figure. The problem is, we lack
:18:23. > :18:26.
:18:26. > :18:33.cash. As you know, in every Budget, we make this thing wishing between
:18:33. > :18:41.money we have to commit ourselves to those services. It is commitment
:18:41. > :18:46.appropriation. And when the services are delivered, we pay and
:18:47. > :18:53.we need payments appropriations. We have had enough commitments, but
:18:53. > :18:58.now when money is committed and the service delivered, we have to pay
:18:58. > :19:02.and we lack the cash. People say you have not budgeted properly, you
:19:02. > :19:08.have spent the money frivolously and now you are expecting nation-
:19:08. > :19:15.states, who come a lot of them are struggling in recession, too strong
:19:15. > :19:22.up the extra cash? responsibility for that is not the
:19:22. > :19:28.European Parliament it is budget ministers. Every year when we
:19:28. > :19:32.negotiate the amount and structure of the EU budget, the budget
:19:32. > :19:38.ministers on one side and Parliament on the other side. We
:19:38. > :19:43.discuss commitments. When you commit money, it is not an election
:19:43. > :19:49.promise, it is a legal obligation. On commitments, ministers don't
:19:49. > :19:57.care, they don't even discuss it. They are only interested on
:19:57. > :20:02.payments. So they are generous on commitments, but they are very
:20:02. > :20:09.Mauritius on payments. Now we are in this contradiction. If we have
:20:09. > :20:17.to pay, it is not due to the extravagance of the Eurocrats, it
:20:17. > :20:23.is due to the contradiction of budget ministers between what they
:20:23. > :20:27.commit and what they don't want to pay. There is an argument that says
:20:27. > :20:33.are you making a fuss about this now, highlighting this
:20:33. > :20:43.contradiction, as you set out, in order to increase pressure on the
:20:43. > :20:47.
:20:47. > :20:55.nation states to put up the EU budget beyond 2013? My arguments --
:20:55. > :21:03.argument is to demonstrate, to oblige governments to avoid double
:21:03. > :21:12.talk, to be candid and to say what they want really. Last June, there
:21:12. > :21:20.was a European Council. As you know, the European summits is taking
:21:20. > :21:26.unanimously. And they decided unanimously that 120 billion euros
:21:26. > :21:32.more would be dedicated to sustain growth and competitiveness in the
:21:32. > :21:39.European Union. And it was agreed by everybody, including the British
:21:39. > :21:45.Prime Minister. And, a few weeks later when we start of fulfilling
:21:45. > :21:55.this decision, we realise all finance ministers want to cut the
:21:55. > :22:00.payments. Instead of increasing them. Things have to be clear. We,
:22:00. > :22:08.as you mention, we are preparing for talks on the framework of the
:22:08. > :22:13.EU budget for the next seven years. But things have to be clear. Who
:22:13. > :22:19.wants to increase the EU budget? He wants to freeze or cut the EU
:22:19. > :22:24.budget? But, when you decide to raise it, you have to pay. When you
:22:24. > :22:27.commit you have to deliver. have made that clear, I will put
:22:27. > :22:30.that to members of the European Parliament.
:22:30. > :22:40.We can talk now to the UKIP MEP, Marta Andreasen, who's in our
:22:40. > :22:42.
:22:42. > :22:45.Southampton studio. Hasn't he got a point? He says they want to do all
:22:45. > :22:51.these things, he says they had committed the nations to these
:22:51. > :22:58.things and now they don't want to pay up? This is the same Commission
:22:58. > :23:07.that told us in February that they had a shortfall for 2011 of 11
:23:07. > :23:11.billion euros. But in April, two months later they had a surplus for
:23:11. > :23:17.2011 of 1.5 billion euros. This has no reliable information or evidence
:23:17. > :23:21.they need the money. He talks about the commitments, but the
:23:21. > :23:26.commitments that are recorded on the books of the Commission are not
:23:26. > :23:30.legal commitments. It is a setting a part of some money for certain
:23:30. > :23:34.projects. The initiative that comes from the Commission and from the
:23:34. > :23:42.Parliament committees, it does not come actually from the member
:23:42. > :23:47.states. I was voting for one day and a half for the Budget in 2013.
:23:47. > :23:52.A lot of initiatives are put on by the political parties in the
:23:52. > :23:59.Parliament without actually knowing if there is any need. Let me tell
:23:59. > :24:04.you, cohesion funding requires Co financing by the member states.
:24:04. > :24:12.Member states have no money to do this. How can they do this if they
:24:12. > :24:16.need more money for cohesion funding now? There are two points
:24:16. > :24:21.made by Alleyne. He said the projects need to be paid for and
:24:21. > :24:26.there is a legal obligation, he says it is legally binding those
:24:26. > :24:30.nation-states to have asked for those projects to be completed,
:24:30. > :24:34.have now been completed and the payments must be there. Are you
:24:34. > :24:39.saying, just because they have not got any money because of the
:24:39. > :24:43.economic situation, they shouldn't be obliged to pay up? Or are you
:24:43. > :24:49.saying they have got their sums wrong? I am saying the need to pay
:24:49. > :24:55.is not there. The calculation of 10 billion came up after a meeting
:24:55. > :25:01.with the budget commissioner. He came to support the need for 10
:25:01. > :25:08.billion, just saying at the end of September 2012, 80% of the
:25:08. > :25:12.commitments have been paid. Well as at the end of September 2011, only
:25:12. > :25:18.3% of the commitment has been paid. He deals because of the rate of
:25:18. > :25:24.payments is higher at the end of September, it is in need of cash.
:25:24. > :25:28.This is the only evidence he provides. He does not list to us, a
:25:28. > :25:34.list of legal commitments the countries are asking to pay but.
:25:34. > :25:37.Thank you very much. Listening to both sides of the argument, how
:25:37. > :25:43.much chance do you think David Cameron has in terms of arguing for
:25:43. > :25:48.a freeze in terms of the EU budget? I have no idea. He won't win that
:25:48. > :25:52.because he has no power to impose VAT on himself. They suppose he
:25:52. > :25:57.would get some cosmetic victory in terms of Britain's contribution
:25:57. > :26:02.because he needs to do that. What is interesting is, at the next
:26:02. > :26:06.election, the three major party leaders will go into the election
:26:06. > :26:12.offering a referendum on Europe. None of them will personally
:26:12. > :26:16.believe it or want to hold it. don't think they personally won't
:26:16. > :26:23.believe it, why not? The Lib Dems always said they would hold the
:26:23. > :26:28.referendum. There is a risk now, been made that pledge years ago,
:26:28. > :26:35.and the risk is now they would lose it. One of the other two will win
:26:35. > :26:40.and will be obliged to hold this nightmarish thing. It David Cameron
:26:40. > :26:45.is the Prime Minister, it will split his party. It Ed Miliband it
:26:45. > :26:48.is the Prime Minister, he risks losing it. None of them will want
:26:48. > :26:55.to hold the referendum but all three will go into the next
:26:55. > :26:59.election offering it. The main threat to the main parties is UKIP.
:26:59. > :27:03.This is the sort of argument they are continuing to present to the
:27:03. > :27:09.British people, saying costs have been and are running out of control.
:27:09. > :27:14.There will benefit from this row? It taps into the idea of out of
:27:14. > :27:19.touch bureaucrats making decisions about our money. It is the small
:27:19. > :27:24.person against the machine. And small parties like UKIP and the
:27:24. > :27:28.Green Party can tap into because of the disillusionment with wider
:27:28. > :27:36.politics. In the end, we have talked before about any deal that
:27:36. > :27:43.could be done between UKIP and David Cameron. If the parties do a
:27:43. > :27:48.further referendum, it will shoot their thought? He depends what the
:27:48. > :27:52.referendum is. David Cameron will have to do what Harold Wilson did
:27:52. > :27:57.in 1974 and renegotiate our terms of membership. And then say on the
:27:57. > :28:01.basis of that we will offer a referendum. But also David Cameron
:28:01. > :28:06.will have to campaign for staying in. He won't go into a referendum
:28:06. > :28:09.campaign to take Britain out. he has resisted going for the
:28:09. > :28:11.referendum in the first place because it puts him in a difficult
:28:11. > :28:14.position. The North of England hasn't exactly
:28:15. > :28:17.been a happy hunting ground for the Conservatives of late. They lost
:28:18. > :28:21.more than 100 councillors in the last set of local elections and
:28:21. > :28:23.there are 25 fewer MPs in the region now than there were at the
:28:24. > :28:26.height of Thatcherism. As a consequence, a great deal of
:28:26. > :28:30.thought and energy is being expended on how to restore the
:28:30. > :28:39.party's fortunes in the region. But is the North a lost cause, or can
:28:40. > :28:44.the Tories turn things round? David Thompson reports.
:28:44. > :28:48.Tynemouth, a few miles outside Newcastle, the kind of place you
:28:48. > :28:54.might end of it you have made it in the North East. Conservative, but
:28:54. > :28:58.not necessarily with a big sea. If this street was a few hundred miles
:28:58. > :29:03.to the south, chances are it would be in a safe Tory seat. Because it
:29:03. > :29:08.is in the north, it isn't. It feels like it should have Conservative
:29:08. > :29:12.written all over it, but yet places like this all over England, the
:29:12. > :29:17.party is failing and struggling to get its message across. What would
:29:17. > :29:22.it take to get you to vote Conservative? Nothing, I wouldn't
:29:22. > :29:27.vote Conservative. Why not? It is how I had been brought up. Have you
:29:28. > :29:31.ever thought about voting Conservative? Yes, it in the last
:29:31. > :29:36.time when Margaret Thatcher was in. I voted Conservative last time
:29:36. > :29:42.because I thought Labour had lost the plot. But now they have been in
:29:42. > :29:46.power couple of years, I am not so certain. What we did get you to
:29:46. > :29:53.vote Conservative? You have not got enough money in the world. A loaded
:29:53. > :29:57.gun! Those attitudes are being felt on the ground. His place hasn't had
:29:57. > :30:03.a Conservative MP since 1977. The local council does have a Tory
:30:03. > :30:09.mayor, but the party has gone from having 31 councillors in 2010 to
:30:09. > :30:19.just 12 now. And his former group leader, himself a casualty, reckons
:30:19. > :30:27.
:30:27. > :30:35.this was created down south. Are very few people were affected
:30:35. > :30:40.by the tax relief, but it played badly with the public. Conservative
:30:40. > :30:46.voters decided to stay at home. They say 1,000 miles Jenny start of
:30:46. > :30:49.a single step. Guy Opperman did not do that but he tried to work out
:30:49. > :30:59.how to find friends for his party in the north.
:30:59. > :31:00.
:31:00. > :31:05.I walked over 200 miles, from Sheffield to Scotland. The events
:31:05. > :31:07.were in suburban places, and I was trying to listen to people, talk to
:31:07. > :31:11.people and get a better understanding of the problems we
:31:11. > :31:15.face and what we need to do to win in the north.
:31:15. > :31:19.The problem is the communication of the message.
:31:19. > :31:23.The policies we are coming up with, they are very good. They are
:31:23. > :31:28.positive. But we have not been getting the message across, and we
:31:28. > :31:34.have not been getting it across locally or nationally.
:31:34. > :31:39.According to policy experts, like this one, the process could begin
:31:39. > :31:45.with a single word - you know, the hardest one.
:31:45. > :31:52.Tories have to say they understand why people haven't been voting Tory.
:31:52. > :32:02.They have to say, look, sorry, now is it time to give us a second
:32:02. > :32:02.
:32:02. > :32:06.chance. Now is the time to listen to the message. Especially if the
:32:06. > :32:09.message is a blue-collar narrative about opportunity and job creation,
:32:09. > :32:13.and about helping people who are affected by squeezing living
:32:13. > :32:17.standards. Attitudes can take a long time to
:32:17. > :32:21.turn around, especially in politics. But if the Conservatives want
:32:21. > :32:28.another term in power, they need the North of England. Perhaps more
:32:28. > :32:35.than the North needs them. Guy Opperman joins us. How long was
:32:35. > :32:38.the walk? 275 miles, from just outside
:32:38. > :32:42.Sheffield, through County Down, six days in my constituency, and over
:32:42. > :32:49.the border into Scotland. Did it rain?
:32:49. > :32:56.All the time! At it was interesting listening to people.
:32:56. > :33:02.It was good to hear what people were saying. We talk about what we
:33:02. > :33:10.were doing on immigration. People like that. They did not know that
:33:10. > :33:15.is what they were -- we were doing. In my area, in the summer, we had a
:33:15. > :33:18.local election. We increased our vote by 10%, and won a seat from
:33:18. > :33:24.the Lib Dems. If you were talking to David
:33:24. > :33:27.Cameron, what we do ask him to do to turn it around? What two or
:33:27. > :33:32.three things would be done to get the votes.
:33:32. > :33:36.It would not happen just like that. It would not be immediately. We
:33:36. > :33:40.need to communicate the message, get out there, actually tell people
:33:40. > :33:44.what we are doing. If you do that, and you explain the immigration cap,
:33:44. > :33:48.explain what we are doing on benefits, those things resonate
:33:48. > :33:52.with voters. What about things like petrol
:33:52. > :33:58.prices? Ave is the sort of issues that would appeal to northern
:33:58. > :34:08.voters? -- are these. The petrol price has been frozen 10
:34:08. > :34:11.times. 10 times it went up under Labour. That is a stark message. We
:34:11. > :34:15.make that point to Labour voters and they understand.
:34:15. > :34:20.A do you think the leadership gets it, though?
:34:20. > :34:24.I think they understand the north. Eric Pickles is from Bradford. You
:34:24. > :34:29.can see the work we have done in Yorkshire. The Foreign Secretary is
:34:29. > :34:33.from Yorkshire. It is not the case that they are not from the north.
:34:33. > :34:36.We have got to start from the basis, when locally, which is what we are
:34:36. > :34:40.doing in Northumberland and Yorkshire.
:34:40. > :34:44.Is the North going the same way for the Tories as Scotland?
:34:44. > :34:48.It was interesting to be at the Labour Party Conference. I did not
:34:48. > :34:57.understand they have not got a single councillor in Scotland, for
:34:57. > :35:04.example. There is a real danger, and it is interesting when you ask
:35:04. > :35:09.if David Cameron gets the serious nature of it. Yes, he does. I spoke
:35:09. > :35:18.to him in the leadership conference -- competition. He said he wanted
:35:18. > :35:24.to make inroads in Scotland. Since then, as we were discussing earlier,
:35:24. > :35:29.the policy direction he has taken has alienated too many of the
:35:29. > :35:34.voters. What do you say to that? I disagree.
:35:34. > :35:39.It must be about policy. Look at the caps on immigration and
:35:39. > :35:43.benefits. They are robust conservative policies that are
:35:43. > :35:51.popular. Look at successes like Yorkshire. We took a dozen seats at
:35:51. > :35:57.the last election. Look at Bradford, with a 23% Kashmiri constituency,
:35:57. > :36:02.and it was one away from Labour. We heard from some people that you
:36:02. > :36:10.have not got enough money to make them vote Conservative. But there
:36:10. > :36:14.is a problem with image. That is always going to be the case.
:36:14. > :36:18.The North South divide is something that Ed Miliband is trying to make
:36:18. > :36:23.something out of. Are the Tories on a hiding to
:36:23. > :36:29.nothing? I think there is a perception of a
:36:29. > :36:34.metropolitan elite in Number Ten. You have a big number of Old
:36:34. > :36:37.Etonians, friends of Dave and George from Oxford in the machine
:36:37. > :36:41.and in government. That does alienate people. The problem is,
:36:41. > :36:46.that is compounded by things like cutting the top rate of tax. The
:36:46. > :36:49.image problem that the Tories have has been exacerbated by decisions
:36:49. > :36:54.they have made in power, which appeared to favour the rich over
:36:54. > :36:59.the poor. That is a decision, not just an image.
:36:59. > :37:03.When I was selected I was better known as a jockey than a politician.
:37:03. > :37:08.It is true that you need to be more local and you need to work much
:37:08. > :37:11.harder on the ground, and that message needs to get across. You
:37:11. > :37:16.are a local represent the first and foremost. You're not a northerner.
:37:16. > :37:19.How did you get elected? I was better known as a jockey than
:37:19. > :37:23.a politician. That is how you made the connection?
:37:23. > :37:27.I was also up there running a business.
:37:27. > :37:36.But you are now representing a northern constituency. Has it open
:37:36. > :37:42.your eyes to the real concerns? It has. Also, going on the walks.
:37:42. > :37:48.22 days later we talking to people, chatting away, it was a good
:37:48. > :37:52.process. -- literally talking to people.
:37:52. > :37:57.Labour can't take anything for granted.
:37:57. > :38:06.You are right about that. They saw Scotland as there has and took it
:38:06. > :38:11.for granted. -- as theirs. In the current situation, no party can
:38:11. > :38:17.take anything for granted. However, I think it is about image, of
:38:17. > :38:21.course, but to do better policy, the recession, and we are still in
:38:21. > :38:31.recession, is affecting the Northmoor.
:38:31. > :38:34.
:38:34. > :38:38.That is simply not the case. But presumably it is countered by a
:38:38. > :38:44.drop in the public sector. A Yes, but jobs are going up.
:38:44. > :38:48.Apprentices are over 50%. These are good messages. What you have just
:38:48. > :38:55.said is wrong. Well, thank you for coming in. I
:38:55. > :39:01.hope you next walk is sunnier. you were a factor jockey, you have
:39:02. > :39:08.lost it all! Thank you. This week, far from River -- living
:39:08. > :39:10.up to its reputation, the Civil Service has looked like a Robin
:39:11. > :39:14.Reliant. Civil servants have been getting it in the neck from
:39:14. > :39:18.ministers accusing them of gross incompetence in the wake of the
:39:18. > :39:22.West Coast Mainline fiasco. It is expected to cost the taxpayer �40
:39:22. > :39:32.million at least. The new Transport Secretary has made it clear who he
:39:32. > :39:33.
:39:33. > :39:43.Then, in a speech on Tuesday, the minister for the Cabinet Office,
:39:43. > :39:48.
:39:48. > :39:58.Not all mandarins have taken this lying down. The former cabinet
:39:58. > :40:00.
:40:00. > :40:05.secretary, Lord O'Donnell, warned I have been joined by Siobhan
:40:05. > :40:10.Benita, the former London mayor candidate and former civil servant,
:40:10. > :40:12.and Douglas Carswell, the Tory backbencher. Siobhan Benita, is it
:40:12. > :40:16.unreasonable for ministers to assume that civil servants,
:40:16. > :40:24.supposedly intelligent people, can get their sums right?
:40:24. > :40:27.That is not unreasonable. What is unreasonable to blame them -- is to
:40:27. > :40:31.blame them when things go wrong. Ministers are quick to take the
:40:31. > :40:35.credit when things go well. We have had the Olympics, politicians from
:40:35. > :40:38.all parties quick to associate themselves with that. You did not
:40:38. > :40:42.see civil servants getting credit for those things. When something
:40:42. > :40:47.goes wrong, this is a shared responsibility. You do have
:40:47. > :40:51.ministers as well as civil servants being held to account.
:40:51. > :40:55.Even though in this case, they are qualified civil servants looking at
:40:55. > :40:59.technical spreadsheet and matters in terms of passenger numbers and
:40:59. > :41:03.pressures that would have come up in the next few years to deal -- to
:41:03. > :41:08.do with these franchises. I take your point that they should take
:41:08. > :41:14.responsibility because they are accountable. It but -- but it can't
:41:14. > :41:20.be a minister's fault, can it? A contract as they as this,
:41:20. > :41:24.ministers would have known this comes under a lot of scrutiny. Sure,
:41:24. > :41:28.the junior officials would have had to do their part in this. But it
:41:28. > :41:31.would have had to go through the board, and the board is chaired by
:41:31. > :41:37.the Secretary of State for Transport. You have an internal
:41:37. > :41:44.audit process, which non executives chair. They have to have various
:41:44. > :41:47.responsibilities. Douglas Carswell, do you think that
:41:47. > :41:52.if Theresa Villiers and Justine Greening, if they were still in
:41:52. > :41:57.post, would they have to resign? I don't think anybody thinks the
:41:57. > :42:01.minister should look at the figures and be able to work out whether the
:42:01. > :42:06.civil servants have factored in inflation. But there's a lot of
:42:06. > :42:15.sense in what should Vaughan says. We should never have a situation
:42:15. > :42:19.when SL7 can hide behind a mandarin. -- when a minister. What we needed
:42:19. > :42:23.to make sure that civil servants and mandarins are accountable. I
:42:23. > :42:28.have been in the House of Commons for five or six years, and I have
:42:28. > :42:33.been shocked at how little accountability there is among the
:42:33. > :42:36.white will mandarins. It is not just that they seem to be
:42:36. > :42:42.incompetent at times with catastrophic effects of the tax
:42:42. > :42:46.payer. The Civil Service is more of a self- service. They are
:42:46. > :42:56.interested in of strutting policy. Let's get back to the calibre of
:42:56. > :43:00.
:43:00. > :43:04.the civil servant. Who recruits them? Have cuts made a difference?
:43:04. > :43:09.If you ask a civil servant for the answer is, surprise, surprise, they
:43:09. > :43:13.are going to say, pay them more and train them more. Perhaps the
:43:13. > :43:19.problem is in the fact that it does not matter how expendable are, if
:43:20. > :43:24.the government is so big it is beyond any Western, the government
:43:24. > :43:31.cannot get it right. -- any wisdom.
:43:31. > :43:41.I would be surprised if any of those civil servants were not
:43:41. > :43:42.
:43:42. > :43:47.bought in from the private sector. They have a revolving door. Do we
:43:47. > :43:53.have the skilled staff that we need in the Civil Service? Shutters have
:43:53. > :43:56.been put in place now which mean it is so difficult to sign of training
:43:56. > :44:01.in the Civil Service. -- structures. Even if you want to grow skills, it
:44:01. > :44:11.is hard to do that. We have a lot of civil servants were doing
:44:11. > :44:11.
:44:11. > :44:15.complex jobs that, years ago, they did not do.
:44:15. > :44:24.If in the private sector somebody made a decision costing millions of
:44:25. > :44:34.pounds, there would be no attempt to excuse them. But civil servants
:44:35. > :44:36.
:44:36. > :44:39.can't as easily make their case in the way that ministers do.
:44:39. > :44:45.Maybe the way to answer this is to accept that the point -- doctrine
:44:45. > :44:53.of accountability to Parliament is broken. We need Congressional
:44:53. > :44:58.accountability. Visible seven needs to come before the committee and
:44:58. > :45:07.explain themselves. -- the civil servant.
:45:07. > :45:11.Are ministers without criticism here was -- criticism here?
:45:11. > :45:15.We are getting into a war of attrition. It is damaging for the
:45:15. > :45:19.way the country is run. If you listen to some ministers, they are
:45:19. > :45:29.excoriating about the civil servants. It is like something out
:45:29. > :45:33.
:45:33. > :45:38.of a TV show. They hate each other. We live in a democracy.
:45:38. > :45:42.Why not make both ministers and mandarins accountable to the
:45:42. > :45:46.people? Would that work, Steve?
:45:46. > :45:56.I agree with that and the accountability of civil servants.
:45:56. > :45:59.
:45:59. > :46:03.His analysis and his remedy, I agree with that. He is right. I
:46:03. > :46:07.disagree with his broader analysis that this is about to much
:46:07. > :46:15.government, in the sense that getting these franchises right is
:46:15. > :46:24.almost impossible because if you say have been for five years, it is
:46:24. > :46:34.too short term. In 15 years, it is impossible to predict. You cannot
:46:34. > :46:45.
:46:46. > :46:51.assume the private sector is always Douglas cars will is and all that.
:46:51. > :47:01.We decided to put him in the hot seat to ask him about his
:47:01. > :47:03.
:47:03. > :47:07.specialist subject. Douglas cars will, Member of
:47:07. > :47:11.Parliament Clacton. It is over, the Government way of doing things is
:47:11. > :47:16.coming to an end. Bloated Government as outgrown its capacity,
:47:16. > :47:20.outgrown the rest of us to be able to pay for it. It has outgrown
:47:20. > :47:27.Democratic accountability. It is hard be surprising voters are
:47:27. > :47:32.disillusioned. We are in debt and Miss governed. Should we disband?
:47:32. > :47:37.No, the digital revolution comes a long. The digital revolution
:47:37. > :47:43.creates a world of what you might call hyper personalisation. Think
:47:43. > :47:49.of Twitter, your personalised news feed. Or your eye pad. Soon we will
:47:49. > :47:53.seek the same level in public services. Instead of a National
:47:53. > :47:57.Curriculum, what if every child had a personalised one. What it you had
:47:57. > :48:02.a personalised health care plan stalled on your records.
:48:02. > :48:09.Politicians will have less control over us. That is a thought to shoot
:48:09. > :48:16.us up. I will ask for a score of that performance. -- cheers us up.
:48:16. > :48:25.Are you being dramatic towards the end of politics as we know it,
:48:25. > :48:30.surely it is about reinventing and rejuvenating us? Look at the banks.
:48:30. > :48:38.We are in a recession. But the Government has shown cheap credit.
:48:38. > :48:42.I think we are at the end of the road, and the digital revolution
:48:42. > :48:50.will create change. It does not matter what the politicians want,
:48:50. > :48:53.it is over. He is a brilliant politician. He is a brilliant
:48:53. > :48:59.politician who is anti-politics. Who will pay for the personalised
:48:59. > :49:03.budgets? It means the Government remains accountable for the money.
:49:03. > :49:09.20 years ago, it we were sitting here in this studio and I tried to
:49:09. > :49:14.explain the concept of Google, you could type anything you want your
:49:14. > :49:17.first question would have been, who will pay for it? If I said they
:49:17. > :49:22.private company would create millions in revenue by creating it
:49:22. > :49:28.free, you would have lacked. Health care is going to be provided for
:49:28. > :49:32.free? We will always need a taxpayer funded system will stop
:49:32. > :49:36.that mean central Government should be involved. You can have
:49:36. > :49:40.collectors and without the state. You can allocate resources paid for
:49:40. > :49:44.by the state without officials doing the allocation. It is
:49:44. > :49:48.possible for people to have a personalised health or education
:49:48. > :49:52.budget by the Government is providing the resources, but you
:49:52. > :49:59.and your doctor, parents are deciding about where it is being
:49:59. > :50:03.spent. Would you like that situation? I think Douglas is on to
:50:03. > :50:07.something where people want more individual services and want
:50:07. > :50:14.greater control over their lives. But they what security and safety
:50:14. > :50:18.at a time of recession. And they get that now? The NHS provides a
:50:18. > :50:23.safety net. You know you can turn up with your child at 3am and you
:50:23. > :50:28.get treated. You don't have to worry about the right budget a
:50:28. > :50:32.credit card on your system. Under my system, the state would pay. But
:50:32. > :50:36.instead of standing in line and waiting what the state did you, you
:50:36. > :50:42.can decide what is right for you. There are catchment areas that
:50:42. > :50:46.decide the education you get. Why not allow people have the decision?
:50:47. > :50:53.What if I waste the money, what if I choose to spend thousands of
:50:53. > :50:56.pounds on cosmetic surgery. state is still paying for that?
:50:56. > :51:04.People's self Commission's social care without people spending it on
:51:04. > :51:10.cigarettes and drink. At 3am, 300 people could choose the same A&E
:51:10. > :51:18.clinic and find they are queuing through the night. I do not see how
:51:18. > :51:22.your theory solves this problem. It you know there is a good hospital
:51:22. > :51:26.near you, we all go there and we wait for months to see the people.
:51:26. > :51:33.I don't see how this magically removes all the issues, the
:51:33. > :51:38.problems we have with state owned delivery. Why is it when you queue
:51:38. > :51:41.up as some think the Government provides, you are having to queue.
:51:41. > :51:46.If you are a parent looking for a GP open on a Saturday, it is hard
:51:46. > :51:52.to find it. You can go to the supermarket 20 var hours a day and
:51:52. > :51:57.watch a film late into the evening. -- 24 hours a day. We need the same
:51:57. > :52:02.choice and freedom over public services that things we enjoyed in
:52:02. > :52:06.our own lives. Do you want people to make those decisions all of the
:52:06. > :52:12.times in our busy lives and busy jobs. Do the research, find the
:52:12. > :52:15.best doctor, but a school and everything? A few weeks ago I
:52:15. > :52:20.bought it technically, a sophisticated electronic device. We
:52:20. > :52:24.would have taken me weeks to research it. But I managed to buy
:52:24. > :52:29.my mobile phone in a few minutes because thousands of other
:52:29. > :52:33.Londoners had collectively allowed me to make an informed choice. If I
:52:33. > :52:37.was making that choice in isolation, but through branding and the price
:52:37. > :52:42.mechanism, I could make the choice right away. Soon collected
:52:42. > :52:48.intelligence will allow us to make a decision about our whole lives.
:52:48. > :52:51.Looking at their faces, you have a bit of convincing to do. Nine out
:52:51. > :52:55.of 10 for the Mastermind performance. It's Friday, so it
:52:55. > :53:01.must be time for our weekly roundup of who's up and who's down. Here's
:53:01. > :53:05.Giles with the political Week in 60 Seconds.
:53:05. > :53:12.A good week for Ed Miliband in what they called a barnstorming leader's
:53:12. > :53:22.speech. One nation. A vision of one nation. One nation. What was it
:53:22. > :53:27.about again? According to Ed Balls, the Conservatives are no match to
:53:27. > :53:33.the Labour bandwagon. Let me pay tribute to our leader, the next
:53:33. > :53:39.Prime Minister of Great Britain, Ed Miliband. Let staff take the strain.
:53:39. > :53:46.Ministers have placed the blame on civil servants for the bidding
:53:46. > :53:50.fiasco on the West Coast Main Line. Round one to Mitt Romney, here and
:53:50. > :53:53.expected the out John President Obama. And Andrew Mitchell won't be
:53:53. > :53:58.attending the Conservative Party conference in Birmingham next week.
:53:58. > :54:05.Considering he is a Birmingham MP, you would have thought he could
:54:05. > :54:08.have made it. And we've been joined by the
:54:08. > :54:16.psychotherapist, Lucy Beresford, author of a book called "happy
:54:16. > :54:20.relationships", to talk about the psychology of party conferences. As
:54:20. > :54:26.a doormat, what is your view about party conferences and what they are
:54:26. > :54:32.set up to do? It's is about tribal loyalty and group stroking. That
:54:32. > :54:38.sounds worrying! It is incredibly confidence boosting, it makes
:54:38. > :54:44.people feel heard and understood. It is a huge triumph. But it brings
:54:44. > :54:48.out the worst in us, that sense of them and us. We become bright
:54:48. > :54:53.fighters and everything we say is right, and everything everybody
:54:53. > :55:01.else says is wrong. It is an unsavoury, moral superiority about
:55:01. > :55:05.it. Does it last? So if they go away, everyone goes back to their
:55:05. > :55:11.normal lives and everything is forgotten? It lasts until the next
:55:11. > :55:15.one comes along and then it happens again. It is a bit like a family
:55:15. > :55:21.wedding, we know it is staged, it has to look immaculate. But in the
:55:21. > :55:26.corner, there is someone plastered and probably having a fight. If you
:55:26. > :55:32.are lucky! How we do put re Ed Miliband in his role, his
:55:32. > :55:38.paternalistic role? You do get the dimension to political conferences,
:55:38. > :55:42.which is an Infanta lies since the audience are looking at mummy and
:55:42. > :55:51.Daddy on the stage. That is the power we had given them. I felt
:55:51. > :55:56.David Miliband... Ed Miliband. huge Freudian slip! Sibling rivalry.
:55:56. > :56:01.Something in his narrative was possibly the Cinderella figure or
:56:01. > :56:06.the ugly duckling who then becomes a swan. The potential was there was
:56:06. > :56:10.something quite magical to happen. Did he turn into a swan? He did
:56:10. > :56:15.have a breakthrough moment were people thought they could look
:56:15. > :56:19.again at him. Then he has to deliver if he is a One nation
:56:20. > :56:23.politician or whether it was rhetoric. I know you arguing these
:56:23. > :56:28.conferences as something of the past, they are so stage-managed.
:56:28. > :56:34.Are they on their way out in the form they are in at the moment?
:56:34. > :56:40.they go on for too long. Basically, all that matters is the leader's
:56:40. > :56:45.speech, perhaps a one or two of the set-piece events on the stage. The
:56:45. > :56:50.fringe meetings are very dull. You could watch them from anywhere.
:56:50. > :56:55.They don't need these few days. Be on the fact that a busy, but few
:56:55. > :56:59.party members who can still afford to go get a buzz out of it. That
:56:59. > :57:04.point is worth making. Talking about morale-boosting, it doesn't
:57:04. > :57:09.make people feel good? In makes them feel good, feeling part of the
:57:09. > :57:12.family. You have lots of nice things happening and mutual
:57:12. > :57:17.stroking and attachment, but underneath there is this a motion
:57:17. > :57:20.simmering. We will get to see that in every single political week.
:57:20. > :57:27.it a case of people looking up to the politicians at these
:57:27. > :57:30.conferences? Only the party faithful look up to them. We are
:57:30. > :57:34.also in vandalised because we are happy to give the power to the
:57:34. > :57:40.politicians, otherwise we would stand of this ourselves. It is a
:57:40. > :57:45.danger of the politicians talking to their own tribe, when now unique
:57:45. > :57:51.to win people over away from you tried. Just like Mick Ronnie, you
:57:51. > :57:55.have to draw them into your party. Will they go on? This year seemed
:57:55. > :58:00.worse than ever. It seemed an old- fashioned way of doing politics in
:58:00. > :58:03.this age of Twitter and blog and everything. We may not have many to
:58:03. > :58:06.look forward to and analyse if it goes on.
:58:06. > :58:10.There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.
:58:10. > :58:16.Today is the 50th anniversary of the release of the first Bond film,
:58:16. > :58:19.Dr No. So the question was: Which Cabinet minister has a mocked-up
:58:19. > :58:27.Bond poster of themselves? Is it: David Cameron, William Hague,
:58:27. > :58:33.Theresa May, or Eric Pickles? I think it is David Cameron because
:58:33. > :58:42.I know he is a James Bond fan. Steve? It cannot be William Hague,
:58:42. > :58:48.he would have read Hansard as a teenager. I like Theresa May.