24/10/2012

:00:41. > :00:45.Good morning. This is the Daily Politics. First some good news -

:00:45. > :00:50.the economy is expected to return to growth tomorrow. Music to the

:00:50. > :00:53.ears of any beleaguered Chancellor. With unemployment and inflation

:00:53. > :01:00.falling, we'll be asking, yes, we will, is George Osborne a first-

:01:00. > :01:03.class operator? Maintaining Auntie's independence from

:01:03. > :01:07.government - the Chairman of the BBC says the Jimmy Savile affair

:01:07. > :01:10.should not bring it into question. Omnishambles in Scotland - Alex

:01:10. > :01:16.Salmond's been finding out that life as First Minister is not plain

:01:16. > :01:19.sailing. We'll be finding out why. And it's over 100 years since they

:01:19. > :01:29.first marched on Parliament. They're back again today. We'll be

:01:29. > :01:32.

:01:32. > :01:37.talking to a modern-day Suffragette. Very appropriate day given the

:01:37. > :01:40.ruling by the Supreme Court on the public sector workers in Birmingham.

:01:40. > :01:49.They've lost their case. All that and more coming up in the next 90

:01:49. > :01:55.minutes of British broadcasting at its finest. So far, there hasn't

:01:55. > :01:58.been an inquiry into us. Anyway, with us for the duration we have a

:01:58. > :02:02.cast that could grace any British blockbuster. OO7 eat your heart out,

:02:02. > :02:04.because on the Daily Politics red carpet today, we have our very own

:02:04. > :02:07.Sean Connery, Roger Moore and Ursula Andress. Former Lib Dem

:02:07. > :02:09.leader, Charles Kennedy, the former Police Minister, Nick Herbert and

:02:09. > :02:19.from Labour, the Shadow Health Minister, Liz Kendall. Welcome to

:02:19. > :02:19.

:02:19. > :02:22.you all. Now first, let's talk about Europe because suprise,

:02:22. > :02:26.suprise the Government appears to be heading for a bit of showdown

:02:26. > :02:28.over the EU budget. The European Commission and the European

:02:28. > :02:31.Parliament both indicated yesterday that they want big increases in the

:02:31. > :02:41.budget, which could add �2 billion to Britain's committments over the

:02:41. > :02:50.

:02:50. > :02:54.next two years. That's up to 2121. Nick, what should the Government

:02:54. > :03:01.do? If necessary, veto. On the grounds that one trillion euros is

:03:01. > :03:06.enough to be getting on with. That actually, the situation in the EU

:03:06. > :03:10.with debt, with public spending cuts, means that governments at all

:03:10. > :03:14.levels ought to be contraining costs too. It's absurd that the EU

:03:14. > :03:18.at that time, or the Commission, is proposing and the Parliament is

:03:18. > :03:22.proposing, an inflation-busting increase in the budget. If you look

:03:22. > :03:27.at the British Government for instance, the size of Government

:03:27. > :03:34.departments is being reduced by a third, so the costs are being tack

:03:34. > :03:38.indown. As well as public spending. But, the British, Germans and

:03:38. > :03:47.French all agree that the budget shouldn't go up by as much as the

:03:47. > :03:51.Parliament want. Mr Hol hol and -- Mr Francois Hollande and Angela

:03:51. > :03:58.Merkel do think it should rise in inflation. What is the British

:03:58. > :04:03.line? Should it go up at all? don't know - my view is that we

:04:03. > :04:07.should reduce costs so I don't think why a deal at inflation is

:04:07. > :04:13.acceptable. It should be frozen? Look at the spending cuts that are

:04:13. > :04:15.across the eurozone and across the EU at the moment. They are very

:04:15. > :04:19.substantial. It's absurd that governments should not be seeking

:04:19. > :04:26.to reduce spending. According to the papers this morning, Charles

:04:26. > :04:34.Kennedy, your leader is, "in lock- step", with David Cameron over

:04:34. > :04:44.wanting a freeze in real terms over the next seven years? He has seen

:04:44. > :05:04.

:05:04. > :05:08.Mr Mr Von rum my. -- Vera Zvonareva. -- Donald Rumsfeld. -- Von Rumpey.

:05:09. > :05:15.As President of the European Union movement, it's only a matter of

:05:15. > :05:19.time, that's how I feel. It's only a matter of time, you are happy for

:05:19. > :05:25.the British Government to veto anything more than a freeze? Well,

:05:25. > :05:29.let's hope it doesn't get to a veto, because that's not healthy politics.

:05:29. > :05:34.It may be good short-term headlines for David Cameron a couple of weeks

:05:34. > :05:39.ago, but it doesn't feed through. I think they are right, I have to say,

:05:39. > :05:43.in the age of austerity, whether one agrees or not, they are right

:05:43. > :05:46.to say you have to be realistic here and you can't go for

:05:46. > :05:49.inflation-busting increases. Whether it turns out to be a freeze,

:05:49. > :05:54.or whether it's somewhere between a freeze and the current French and

:05:54. > :05:58.jerl an position, well, we -- German position, well, we know what

:05:58. > :06:03.Europe is like, there will be a dispute and be settled in the early

:06:03. > :06:07.hours. What would Labour's position be? We want to see a real-terms

:06:07. > :06:12.reduction in the EU's budget. We tabled a motion on this back in

:06:12. > :06:17.July. We voted in favour of a real- term reduction in it. Are you in

:06:17. > :06:21.favour of the veto? I think Charles is right, you won't get what you

:06:21. > :06:25.actually want, which is a real-term reduction. You are not going to get

:06:25. > :06:30.that anyway. You would be lucky even to get a freeze.

:06:30. > :06:32.Government's not going to get us there, because it'site lated from

:06:32. > :06:40.our traditional, national allies, but it's right-wing political

:06:40. > :06:46.allies. What allies do we have in wanting a reduction? I think we

:06:46. > :06:52.would find alleys. -- allies. There are countries in the past who have

:06:52. > :06:58.done that. That would be part of the - Who? -- that would be part of

:06:58. > :07:02.our negotiations. I don't know. I think many countries would say,

:07:02. > :07:06.when we're being asked to make huge cuts, how on earth can the EU be

:07:06. > :07:10.asking for anything else? If the budget goes ahead and is increased

:07:10. > :07:15.by a reasonable amount, not as much as they want, it won't be that or

:07:16. > :07:18.even the Parliament, if it's a real-terms increase will Labour

:07:18. > :07:24.back David Cameron vetoing the increase? We want a reduction and

:07:24. > :07:27.we'll negotiate now for that. you back him? I'm not going to deal

:07:27. > :07:31.in hypotheticals. It won't be in a few weeks. It's about what it

:07:31. > :07:37.should be doing now to get a reduction. The position of Labour

:07:37. > :07:43.MPs in Parliament is very clear. your Government doesn't agree a

:07:43. > :07:51.deal then all that happens is you roll over the 2013 budget into 2014

:07:51. > :07:53.and that involves a 2% rise? So it goes up and you can't veto that?

:07:54. > :07:57.don't know the mechanics. That's the suggestion that we have no

:07:57. > :08:00.choice and we accept it. That cannot be right. You should be

:08:00. > :08:04.prepared to accept 2% anyway, because if you don't you'll get

:08:04. > :08:09.that? We'll take a stand and make the argument for a reduction. I

:08:09. > :08:13.find it incredible that people, including all the MEPs, not the

:08:13. > :08:16.Conservatives, but certainly Labour MEPs who this week voted for this,

:08:16. > :08:26.who are immune from the idea that they have a responsibility to

:08:26. > :08:30.

:08:30. > :08:33.reduce costs at a time of austerity. I think this dilemma points to the

:08:34. > :08:39.difficulties of saying we'll waive the veto. It's not as simple as

:08:39. > :08:47.that, for the very reasons outlined. OK. I'm glad we're not there with

:08:47. > :08:50.the tabloids. Thank you for that. Now to that thorny issue of

:08:50. > :08:53.prisoner voting. Conservative MPs have reacted angrily to reports

:08:54. > :08:57.that the Government is drawing up a draft law that will give some

:08:57. > :08:59.prisoners the vote. In May, the European Court of Human Rights gave

:08:59. > :09:01.Britain six months to extend the franchise to prisoners. The

:09:01. > :09:04.Government has denied that legislation is in the pipeline,

:09:04. > :09:07.although it has confirmed that officials are in the final stages

:09:07. > :09:09.of negotiations on how to respond to the ruling. In the last hour,

:09:09. > :09:12.the Attorney-General, Dominic Grieve, has been speaking to the

:09:12. > :09:20.House of Commons Justice Committee about the potential consequences

:09:20. > :09:23.for the UK if the Government ignores the Convention. It's at

:09:23. > :09:26.least technically possible we would certainly be in breach. There's an

:09:26. > :09:29.issue, which has been mentioned previously, that I spoke about in

:09:29. > :09:32.Parliament, that there would be damaging claims stacking up against

:09:32. > :09:35.the United Kingdom Government in respect of individual prisoners.

:09:35. > :09:39.They would claim that their right to vote had been denied them.

:09:39. > :09:43.Therefore, that would be costly to the United Kingdom Government,

:09:43. > :09:47.unless it chose not to pay, in which case that would be a further

:09:47. > :09:51.breach of international obligations. As to what the end game would be,

:09:51. > :09:56.whether it would mean that the United Kingdom decided to leave the

:09:56. > :10:01.Council of Europe, or be expelled from the Council of Europe, I don't

:10:01. > :10:09.think I would wish to hazard a guess. Joining us now, fresh from

:10:09. > :10:13.that Select Committee, is Steve Brine. Are you prepared to go down

:10:13. > :10:17.that line? I was there this morning and I heard him say that, among

:10:17. > :10:22.other things. Referring back to the previous conversation too, what we

:10:22. > :10:25.should probably try to do is take the heat out of this. I don't think

:10:25. > :10:28.confrontation and fights with Europe is the British way. I don't

:10:28. > :10:33.think it's a sensible way. I think we should step back and remember

:10:33. > :10:35.what the British public think about this. Parliament reflected what the

:10:35. > :10:40.British public think of this earlier this year, when it was

:10:40. > :10:44.clear that it does not want to give the vote across the board to

:10:44. > :10:47.prisoners. You said across the board, so are you prepared to give

:10:47. > :10:52.some prisoners on short sentences the vote? Well, I this I that we

:10:52. > :10:56.have to actually look at some facts. Fine defaulters, contempt of court,

:10:56. > :11:00.have the vote. People who are on remand have the vote. It's not a

:11:00. > :11:07.case that all prisoners don't have the vote. The ruling was quite

:11:07. > :11:11.clear, and it said it would be illegal under European law to have

:11:11. > :11:14.an abroad-the-board blanket ban, but listening to the Attorney-

:11:14. > :11:20.General this morning, and it was the first time he's been before us,

:11:20. > :11:25.I think there's a way out for the British Government. What is it?

:11:25. > :11:29.shouldn't be of any great surprise that official are looking at this,

:11:29. > :11:34.because they have to by the end of next month. I think there is a way

:11:34. > :11:38.out here, whereby Parliament is sovereign in this and Parliament

:11:38. > :11:41.can legislate. Parliament has made its view clear and will necessarily

:11:41. > :11:45.make the view clear again. There's no reason why Parliament can't make

:11:45. > :11:50.the ruling on this and response on this. I'm sure it will. Right, but

:11:50. > :11:54.what are you suggesting should be the Government's response? I think

:11:54. > :11:58.the Government can respond with the status quo. Nobody has suggested

:11:58. > :12:01.that rapists and murderers should be given the vote, but there are

:12:01. > :12:07.already -- Then you are in clear breach of the obligations and the

:12:07. > :12:10.expectations from Europe and that could lead to damages, being sued

:12:10. > :12:13.by prisoners and your international reputation. These are the things

:12:13. > :12:18.the Attorney-General is saying. You could find that it would be pretty

:12:18. > :12:22.tough to be at the wrong end of this ruling? I think we would be in

:12:23. > :12:26.breach with an across-the-board blanket ban. We don't have that.

:12:26. > :12:31.Unless we were to go down that rot and legislate for one, that would

:12:31. > :12:34.put us in breach. I think there is a compromise here and a very

:12:35. > :12:40.British one here, that can allow us to bring forward the legislation,

:12:40. > :12:45.which we have to do, without this confrontational way of going about

:12:45. > :12:48.things with the European Union. Thank you very much. Nick Herbert,

:12:48. > :12:52.do you agree? This compromise, should the Government bring forward

:12:52. > :12:56.draft legislation or should they ignore the ruling? I don't think

:12:56. > :13:02.the House of Commons will vote for any form of prisoner voting. I

:13:02. > :13:05.think that's the bottom line, actually. Should they be given the

:13:05. > :13:08.opportunity? First, should prisoners be allowed to vote. We

:13:08. > :13:13.can discuss that. I don't think they should. I don't think it's a

:13:13. > :13:19.human right to have a vote when you have a sentence. And secondly, it's

:13:19. > :13:23.who decides. We should have a House of Commons elected by the people

:13:23. > :13:28.and the House should decide. Our own House of Commons has said no.

:13:28. > :13:31.Our courts have said no. We have something called the Supreme Court,

:13:31. > :13:35.but apparently it's not supreme. It said no, the House was right to be

:13:35. > :13:39.able to disagree and now we have the situation where we have the

:13:39. > :13:43.European Court seeking to override that. I think it's that that is

:13:43. > :13:47.unacceptable and I do think that there may be room to continue to

:13:48. > :13:52.kick the can down street, which is what has happened for years. The

:13:52. > :13:55.court in Europe itself hardly progresses things quickly as we

:13:55. > :13:58.have discovered. Would delay be the best way forward? I don't think

:13:58. > :14:02.there's a point in the Government bringing forward to the House

:14:02. > :14:06.measures that infight the House to do something that is simply it

:14:06. > :14:10.won't do. They deny they'll bring forward the legislation. Charles

:14:10. > :14:16.Kennedy, should some prisoners get the vote, more than the ones that

:14:16. > :14:20.do currently? Yes. I think I have felt in principle and we have

:14:20. > :14:26.argued when I was leader with great unpopularity, that should be the

:14:26. > :14:31.case. Did you vote in favour at the last time it was discussed? Yes, we

:14:31. > :14:36.were among the view voices in favour. We have put in the caveat

:14:36. > :14:42.and I think Nick is saying and what Steve was saying is spot on, I'm on

:14:42. > :14:45.the Council of Europe, the all- party representing Westminster. We

:14:45. > :14:49.know because the only power that members of the Council of Europe

:14:50. > :14:53.have got is we vote on who the European Court of Human Rights

:14:53. > :14:57.judges are. It's not a Foreign Office, because we send senior

:14:57. > :15:00.British judicial figures there. What about the damage to Britain?

:15:00. > :15:04.They are not up for confrontation. They want to find a way through

:15:04. > :15:08.this problem. It's a upon for them, because they don't want to be in

:15:08. > :15:11.breach of the dispute and they recognise the problem for us, for

:15:11. > :15:15.the democratic reasons. One of the suggestions we put forward, we

:15:15. > :15:19.might want to revisit this, both from the Council of Europe point of

:15:19. > :15:22.view and from the House of Commons point of view, is maybe you could

:15:22. > :15:27.allow High Court judges to have discretion in ruling on individual

:15:27. > :15:33.cases, as to who could be able to vote and who might not. Jack Straw,

:15:33. > :15:36.where he left the issue off, signed off on it, was perhaps you have a

:15:36. > :15:46.four-year period and after four years the prisoner becomes eligible

:15:46. > :15:57.

:15:57. > :16:03.to be considered for voting rights. $:/STARTFEED. The problem at the

:16:03. > :16:06.moment is we do not know what the Government's plan is. There is a

:16:06. > :16:13.highly respected journalist who gives a report today that they are

:16:13. > :16:17.going to bring forward a draft bill. Then it is denied. We are not clear

:16:17. > :16:21.what their proposals are. One of the things that would be really

:16:21. > :16:26.helpful if we saw the legal advice the Government has had and what the

:16:26. > :16:30.implications are of this breach. But we are not getting that

:16:30. > :16:35.information. That would help us start to see a way through. We have

:16:35. > :16:39.been told in a few weeks we will find out because there has to be a

:16:39. > :16:42.response by the end of November. The it is difficult for

:16:42. > :16:47.parliamentarians to see is there a way through this without giving

:16:47. > :16:53.prisoners the vote that does not get us into the beach? We need to

:16:54. > :17:00.see that legal advice. Tomorrow sees the publication of the first

:17:00. > :17:04.estimates of growth for the third quarter of this year. The

:17:04. > :17:09.Chancellor wants an eagerly anticipated set of figures because

:17:09. > :17:14.the economy is expected to have shown a return to growth in this

:17:14. > :17:19.quarter after three-quarters of no growth. Some economists are

:17:19. > :17:26.predicting up to 0.9%. They only used decimal points in the forecast

:17:26. > :17:30.to show they have a sense of humour. Did you know there is finally light

:17:30. > :17:36.at the end of the tunnel a company by a series of welcome signals?

:17:36. > :17:40.Unemployment is down to 2.5 3 million. Inflation has dropped back

:17:41. > :17:46.to 2.2%. Shut for his return to the High Street where retail sales

:17:46. > :17:51.figures showed 1.5 increase in September compared to last year.

:17:51. > :17:58.Tomorrow we will learn what a good old shunt from the Olympics has

:17:58. > :18:02.given to give us a good increase in GDP. Is George Osborne a first

:18:02. > :18:09.class Chancellor forgot the economy back on track with the prospect of

:18:09. > :18:13.a high speed recovery? Or will it be a brief encounter with growth?

:18:13. > :18:20.Charles Kennedy is saying you I mean by saying all that about Boy

:18:20. > :18:26.George. Nick Herbert, is this a blip or is

:18:26. > :18:30.it a return to growth? I do not know, we have to see the figures.

:18:30. > :18:35.Most of the economists are suggesting there will be a return

:18:35. > :18:39.to growth in the next couple of years, but that puts us pretty near

:18:39. > :18:43.to the forecast of US growth. The rate of job creation in this

:18:43. > :18:49.country is better than the United States. We have an employment which

:18:49. > :18:57.is lower than many of our EU counterparts and is predicted to

:18:57. > :19:02.continue to be low. I think there are some signs that the corner may

:19:02. > :19:07.be beginning to return, but there are also difficulties. There is the

:19:07. > :19:13.continued weak demand in the euro- zone. That has been the cause of

:19:13. > :19:18.the reduced growth that we saw as against the Office for Budget

:19:18. > :19:22.Responsibility's forecast a couple of years ago. It has been very

:19:22. > :19:27.disappointing according to what they forecast. That is not in our

:19:27. > :19:33.control. All such a collapse in domestic demand in Britain. The

:19:33. > :19:39.median wage in Britain to date is 8% lower in real terms than what it

:19:39. > :19:42.was in 2008. That is a collapse and domestic demand. That will be

:19:42. > :19:48.helped by the fall in inflation. Consumers are spending, but it has

:19:48. > :19:52.been taken up in a fuel price rises. Of course, there is a possibility

:19:52. > :19:58.that inflation will begin to rise again because of the higher fuel

:19:58. > :20:03.prices. The reduction in inflation is good from the point of view of

:20:03. > :20:07.potential greater demand in the economy. Average wage rises are

:20:07. > :20:14.rising more slowly, but they may cross in the next couple of months.

:20:14. > :20:18.Is this a blip or is the economy going to return to growth? If we do

:20:18. > :20:25.see us finally emerging from the longest double-dip recession, not

:20:25. > :20:29.least thanks to the billions of pounds from Olympic ticket sales

:20:29. > :20:34.and Olympic TV rights, we need to look at the big question, which is

:20:35. > :20:41.what the underlying growth trends are. We will wait and see what

:20:41. > :20:46.people say. My real concern is that even if we get a 1% growth figure

:20:46. > :20:51.tomorrow that means the size of the economy is the same as last year.

:20:51. > :20:56.There are big problems in terms of future growth, jobs and borrowing.

:20:56. > :21:01.The fat the Chancellor is having to borrow �150 billion more than he

:21:01. > :21:05.planned is a cause for concern. understand all that. It looks like

:21:05. > :21:11.the third quarter will show some growth, but it could be specific to

:21:11. > :21:17.the third quarter. What I am wondering is inured you... There

:21:17. > :21:21.are problems. I we returning to growth even if it is weak growth?

:21:21. > :21:25.Let's see what happens tomorrow and let's see what the other

:21:25. > :21:32.organisations say. People like the OBR are now say we did predict much

:21:32. > :21:36.higher growth. We are now concerned that in fact what has happened on

:21:36. > :21:41.tax increases and public spending cuts has made the long term growth

:21:41. > :21:49.in the economy... You are not going to answer my question, let's see if

:21:49. > :21:54.Charles will answer it. Is it a blip, or is it any make and it may

:21:54. > :22:01.not be anything like a boom, but are we returning to growth? There

:22:01. > :22:06.is common consensus there is some return to growth. What I detect is

:22:06. > :22:11.that there is a weary acceptance that we are not where we had hoped

:22:11. > :22:15.to be at this stage. We are definitely not. But given the other

:22:15. > :22:20.half of the parliament that is ahead of us, by the time of the

:22:20. > :22:24.next election if you are looking at an election scenario of best case

:22:24. > :22:29.which will still be pretty sluggish, probably on the plus side of the

:22:29. > :22:35.equation, but not much. That is a difficult political scenario for

:22:35. > :22:38.anybody. The mood changed I detect amongst the ministers is that.

:22:38. > :22:44.danger for the coalition is there may well be a return to growth next

:22:44. > :22:50.year. The Third Quartet may be a blip, but it will still be growth.

:22:50. > :22:55.But it is not as we have no it coming out of a recession. Only

:22:55. > :23:01.people like me will notice it. Voters will not notice it because

:23:01. > :23:07.it will be so anaemic. You are right about what you said about

:23:07. > :23:12.consumers' pockets. It has been difficult for people. The big

:23:12. > :23:16.question were remain who has the right policy to get us back on

:23:16. > :23:21.track, which means getting on top of the deficit and restoring as to

:23:21. > :23:26.a position where we live within our means. The danger for Labour is

:23:26. > :23:32.they appeared to have the same song, which is to borrow more and I do

:23:32. > :23:37.not believe that the public accept that argument. The Government is

:23:37. > :23:40.borrowing �150 billion more than they planned. Either banks lending

:23:40. > :23:47.to businesses to grow and to individuals to get on the housing

:23:47. > :23:51.ladder? We still have a very poor figures on that. Are we bring in

:23:51. > :23:57.the long term unemployment down which has a big impact on people's'

:23:57. > :24:01.lives? Are we seeing a real impact on incomes? If people cannot spend

:24:01. > :24:06.that money because of food and fuel bills and the Government is not

:24:06. > :24:11.taking the action it needs to get the prices down, then individuals

:24:11. > :24:15.will not be going out and spending. If businesses and individuals are

:24:15. > :24:22.not spending and the economy is not growing in that way, that is the

:24:22. > :24:27.problem. The debt figures were an improvement on expectations. �150

:24:28. > :24:34.billion more borrowed. You cannot propose more borrowing, it is

:24:34. > :24:40.completely the wrong position. have to move on. To buy what �100

:24:40. > :24:46.would have bought four years ago, you would have had to spend �116.

:24:46. > :24:51.And wages have not risen by 16%. If your faith in great British

:24:51. > :24:55.institutions is fast crumbling, I cannot think why, but mine is, fear

:24:55. > :25:02.not, because there is one great British institution that will not

:25:02. > :25:10.die. I am not talking about James Bond, he is not real. This is real,

:25:10. > :25:18.the Daily Politics mug. These are the most sophisticated mugs in the

:25:18. > :25:27.land. Here he is starring in his latest epic for you are mug only,

:25:27. > :25:35.the man With the Golden mug. Licensed to mug. All right, I will

:25:35. > :25:44.stop now. It took us all morning to think of those. If you want your

:25:44. > :25:50.very own you will have to enter our guess the year competition.

:25:50. > :26:00.Is it sky mug? Let's see if you can remember when

:26:00. > :26:00.

:26:01. > :26:07.this happened. # You have got to roll with it, you have got to take

:26:07. > :26:17.it, you have got to say what you want to say, do not let anyone get

:26:17. > :26:20.

:26:20. > :26:30.in your way. #. Who dares, wins. We dare. We will

:26:30. > :26:51.

:26:51. > :26:57.# This is how we do it. #. I am glad the debate has started,

:26:57. > :27:07.but it will for us us to look closely at clause four and we can

:27:07. > :27:12.

:27:12. > :27:18.To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug, send your

:27:18. > :27:25.answer to our special address. You can see the full terms and

:27:25. > :27:29.conditions on the website. It is coming up to midday and let's

:27:29. > :27:38.take a look at Big Ben. It could only mean one thing. It is a bit

:27:38. > :27:43.grey and misty. The seasons of Mr and snowflakes. Prime Minister's

:27:43. > :27:48.Questions is on the way, and so is Nick Robinson. Let's talk for a

:27:48. > :27:51.change about the BBC. We have not done that for 10

:27:51. > :27:55.minutes. It is the gift that keeps on giving.

:27:55. > :28:01.We have got the chairman of the BBC trust in open-water with the

:28:01. > :28:04.Culture Secretary. Rumours coming from across the Atlantic that Mark

:28:04. > :28:08.Thomson the outgoing DG may lose his new position as chief executive

:28:08. > :28:15.of the New York Times. When I saw that, I thought they cannot be

:28:15. > :28:19.anything in that, and then that paper's editor is quoted as saying

:28:19. > :28:25.it is worth considering whether he is the right person for the job.

:28:25. > :28:30.And in other unnamed figures says he brings so much unwanted baggage.

:28:30. > :28:34.Is our brand so damaged you cannot even go and run the New York Times?

:28:34. > :28:40.What will be more interesting is to see whether it gets onto the floor

:28:40. > :28:45.of the house. Ed Miliband a week or so ago said he thought there should

:28:45. > :28:50.be a public inquiry as against the BBC commission's enquiry and the

:28:50. > :28:55.NHS inquiry. But given the chance to raise it at Prime Minister's

:28:55. > :29:00.Questions, he said he did not, he kept it at low-key. My

:29:00. > :29:05.understanding is he wanted to carry on keeping it fairly low-key. I

:29:05. > :29:09.think he might feel he wants to say something. The Prime Minister

:29:09. > :29:13.similarly has wanted to not to appear to be ruling out an

:29:13. > :29:19.independent inquiry, but up to now has backed up the inquiries as they

:29:19. > :29:29.are. If politicians, party leaders, feel they have to wait in, it gets

:29:29. > :29:34.more serious. The BBC has become a national punchbag. Members of

:29:34. > :29:40.parliament after the expenses crisis, they might say it is your

:29:40. > :29:45.turn. You can see that, there is a lynch mob out there. It has made as

:29:45. > :29:49.they get that at its heart this is a story about a very evil man who

:29:49. > :29:54.was allowed to get away with very evil things for a long time and

:29:54. > :29:58.there were probably people complicit and active withing in

:29:58. > :30:05.getting away with these evil things. I am sure the priority is for the

:30:05. > :30:11.police to get these people. I have no fresh information, but the talk

:30:11. > :30:16.has been about the police making arrests. If they are not simply

:30:16. > :30:21.within the BBC or not within the BBC at all, at the focus will shift

:30:21. > :30:28.back to a criminal, Serial, sexual predator and away from who knew

:30:28. > :30:34.what about this or that television programme. 4 x Milliband, this is

:30:34. > :30:43.his first chance to try and have a go at the Prime Minister for a

:30:43. > :30:49.series of what he will label as mess up us. The Chief Whip has gone.

:30:49. > :30:59.He said he was post and he is opposed. If I were Ed Miliband of

:30:59. > :31:03.what I would be looking for is how do you avoid looking like a

:31:03. > :31:13.Westminster game and try and relate it to people's lives? William Hague

:31:13. > :31:16.was brilliant when he said, you minister said this. Liz is saying

:31:16. > :31:24.yes to energy prices. You want opposition leaders to take things

:31:24. > :31:31.that affect people's lives, energy prices, police numbers and say,

:31:31. > :31:35.this is not just Westminster, it is about your life. If you can do that

:31:35. > :31:40.as an opposition leader, John Smith did it brilliantly once took John

:31:40. > :31:50.Major at Prime Minister's Questions, you will make progress. There is a

:31:50. > :31:54.

:31:54. > :32:01.guest of honour, it is Nick's This morning I had meetings and in

:32:01. > :32:06.addition to my duties in this House I will have meetings later today.

:32:06. > :32:12.Could I ask my right honourable friend whether he will ensure that

:32:12. > :32:20.the full panoply of Government powers is used to investigate the

:32:20. > :32:24.predatory activities of the late Mr Jimmy Savile? I think my honourable

:32:24. > :32:27.friend makes a very important point. The allegations and what seems to

:32:27. > :32:30.have happened are completely appalling and are shocking the

:32:31. > :32:34.entire country. These do leave many institutions, perhaps the BBC, with

:32:34. > :32:38.serious questions to answer. think above all the question how

:32:38. > :32:41.did he get away with this for how long? The most important thing is

:32:41. > :32:46.the police investigation is properly resourced and is allowed

:32:46. > :32:49.to continue. I don't rule out further steps, but we do now have

:32:49. > :32:56.independent investigations by the BBC, independent investigations

:32:56. > :32:58.into the NHS and today I can confirm that the DPP has confirmed

:32:59. > :33:04.that his principal legal adviser will review the papers from the

:33:04. > :33:09.time when a case was put to the CPS for prosecution and the DPP

:33:09. > :33:11.specifically is going to consider what more can be done to alert

:33:11. > :33:15.relevant authorities where there are concerns that a prosecution is

:33:15. > :33:18.not taken forward. The Government will do everything it can do. Other

:33:18. > :33:27.institutions must do what they can do to make sure we learn the

:33:27. > :33:31.lessons of this so it can never happen again. Mr Speaker, last week,

:33:31. > :33:35.the Prime Minister told this House and I quote, "We will be

:33:35. > :33:38.legislating so that energy companies have to give the lowest

:33:38. > :33:42.tariff to their customers." Can he explain, including to the Energy

:33:42. > :33:47.Secretary, how he's going to guarantee everybody in the country

:33:47. > :33:50.the lowest tariff? As I said last week, we are going to use the

:33:50. > :33:55.energy bill to ensure that customers get the lowest tariffs.

:33:55. > :34:00.That's what we want to do. I have to say to the honourable gentleman,

:34:00. > :34:05.there is a real problem here and it is worth looking at. There are -

:34:05. > :34:08.last year, there were only 400 tariffs. This is completely

:34:08. > :34:12.baffling for customers and while encouraging people to switch can

:34:12. > :34:15.help make a difference, we need to go further and we need to use the

:34:15. > :34:21.law, because I'm in no doubt we are on the side of people who work hard

:34:21. > :34:24.and want to pay their bills and want a better deal. Mr Speaker, the

:34:24. > :34:28.only people who are baffled last week were all of the ministers who

:34:28. > :34:33.didn't know anything about the announcement. Last week, it was a

:34:33. > :34:38.guarantee, a gilt-edged guarantee from the Prime Minister and now

:34:38. > :34:41.he's read the small print and it's unravelled. Another dodgy offer

:34:41. > :34:47.from this Prime Minister. Why can't he just for once at mitt the truth

:34:47. > :34:52.- he doesn't do the detail, he made up the policy and he got caught

:34:52. > :34:55.out? We are going to use the energy bill to ensure people get the

:34:55. > :35:01.lowest tariff. The Deputy Prime Minister said exactly the same. He

:35:01. > :35:07.wants to look at the detail. Let me ask him about this detail - yes, we

:35:07. > :35:12.have his entire energy policy laid out for us today. Maybe he can tell

:35:12. > :35:17.us now he says he wants to scrap Ofgem. In Government, he kept it.

:35:17. > :35:22.Now he says he wants to pool energy supplies, in Government they

:35:22. > :35:25.scrapped pooling energy supplies. Now he says he wants to refer the

:35:25. > :35:28.big six to the Competition Commission, then he said he

:35:28. > :35:37.wouldn't do it. I'm all in favour of switching, but this is

:35:37. > :35:41.ridiculous. Let's talk about my record as Energy Secretary, because

:35:41. > :35:45.I want to thank him for the Conservative Party briefing

:35:45. > :35:50.document issued last Thursday. After the chaos of the House. It

:35:50. > :35:59.revealed something very interesting, Mr Speaker. While I was the Energy

:35:59. > :36:05.Secretary the average dual fuel bill fell by an average of �110.

:36:05. > :36:15.Under him, it has risen by �200. I'll compare my record to his any

:36:15. > :36:17.

:36:17. > :36:23.day. Now, let's go on... The part- time Chancellor is giving advice

:36:23. > :36:31.again! I'm actually coming on to one of his favourite subjects, the

:36:31. > :36:34.West Coast Main Line. The former railway secretary and now the

:36:34. > :36:40.Northern Ireland Secertary told us in August about the franchise

:36:40. > :36:44.process., "We have tested it very robustly." The former Secretary of

:36:44. > :36:50.State, now the Secretary of State for International Development, she

:36:50. > :36:54.doesn't really want the job, but she's there, she said, "The process

:36:54. > :36:59.is incredibly robust." Yet we learn today that concerns were raised by

:36:59. > :37:03.the bidders as long ago as May 2011. Can the Prime Minister tell us

:37:03. > :37:06.whether any minister knew about the bidders' concerns? First of all, he

:37:06. > :37:12.said he wants to talk about his record as Energy Secretary. I think

:37:12. > :37:17.we should spend a little bit of time on that. The fact is, under

:37:17. > :37:21.Labour, gas bills doubled and electricity bills were up more than

:37:21. > :37:28.50%. When he was Energy Secretary, had he became Energy Secretary, the

:37:28. > :37:33.companies were making �25 loss per bill, and when he left Government

:37:33. > :37:38.they were making �55 profit per bill. He didn't stand up to the

:37:38. > :37:48.vested interest, he stuffed their pockets with cash. Right,, we've

:37:48. > :37:49.

:37:50. > :37:55.dealt with that. By the way, sorry, while we are on his energy record,

:37:56. > :37:59.he put in place in his low-carbon transition plan, a policy that

:38:00. > :38:09.would have added �179 to every sippingle person's bill in the

:38:10. > :38:13.

:38:13. > :38:17.country. Perhaps when he gets up he can apologise for that. Perhaps

:38:17. > :38:21.members on both sides could calm down. Over to the Leader of the

:38:21. > :38:25.Opposition, Mr Ed Miliband. Even he's taking his habit of not

:38:25. > :38:35.answering questions to a new level. I asked him a question - if he

:38:35. > :38:35.

:38:35. > :38:38.wants to swap places, I'm very happy to do so. I asked him a

:38:38. > :38:42.question about the railway. The Chancellor shouts from a sedentary

:38:42. > :38:52.position. It's not the ticket that needs upgrading, but the Chancellor,

:38:52. > :38:52.

:38:52. > :38:56.many my view. -- many my view! The mismannedling of this process --

:38:56. > :39:00.the Miss Handling of this process has cost taxpayers up to �100

:39:00. > :39:05.million. Which of his former transport ministers, who oversaw

:39:05. > :39:11.the bidding, is responsible for this multi-million-pound fiasco?

:39:11. > :39:13.There is a proper independent investigation into what happened

:39:13. > :39:17.with the West Coast Main Line. The Secretary of State for Transport

:39:17. > :39:21.has made a full statement to this House and has explained what will

:39:21. > :39:23.be done, so the commuters receive a good service. We get to the bottom

:39:23. > :39:27.of what went wrong too. What is interesting and what the country

:39:27. > :39:30.will notice, is he wants to talk about the Chancellor, because he

:39:31. > :39:33.can't talk about the economy, because he's got no plans to

:39:33. > :39:39.increase the private sector. He can't talk about the deficit,

:39:39. > :39:42.because he's got no plans to cut it. He can't talk about welfare,

:39:42. > :39:45.because he he opposes the cap. He can't talk about all the issues

:39:45. > :39:52.that matter to this country and that's why he stands up and tells a

:39:52. > :39:54.whole lot of rubbish jokes. I think we can take it from that answer,

:39:54. > :40:00.that nobody is taking responsibility for what happened on

:40:00. > :40:04.the railways. Ministers didn't know the detail. They didn't do the work.

:40:04. > :40:08.They got caught out. Mr Speaker, who can blame them? They are just

:40:08. > :40:16.playing follow my leader, after all. And this is what he said before he

:40:16. > :40:22.became Prime Minister and I quote, "We must provide the modern

:40:22. > :40:27.Conservative alternative - clear, come tent, inspiring." Mr Speaker,

:40:27. > :40:33.where did it all go wrong? I tell you what has happened under this

:40:33. > :40:39.Government in the last week, inflation down. Unemployment down.

:40:39. > :40:42.Crime down. Waiting lists down. Borrowing down. That's what happens

:40:42. > :40:52.but he can't talk about the real issues, because he's not up to the

:40:52. > :40:58.job. It's good to see the crim zon tide back. -- crimson tide back.

:40:58. > :41:03.He's living in a parallel universe. It's been another disastrous week

:41:03. > :41:06.for his Government. Last week, he defended the Chief Whip. Now he's

:41:06. > :41:10.gone. He made up an energy policy, that's gone too. He's lost millions

:41:11. > :41:14.of pounds on the railways. Isn't the truth, there's nobody else left

:41:14. > :41:20.to blame for the shambles of his Government? It goes right to the

:41:20. > :41:24.top. It's only a bad week if you think it's bad that unemployment is

:41:24. > :41:28.down. We think it's good. It's only bad if you regret inflation's

:41:28. > :41:32.coming down. We think it's good for our country. It's only a bad week

:41:32. > :41:35.if you don't think it's a good thing that one million more people

:41:35. > :41:39.are in work. That's what's happening in the country. Every bit

:41:39. > :41:48.of good news sends that team into a complete decline, but I can tell

:41:48. > :41:58.him, the good news will keep coming. Would my right honourable friend

:41:58. > :41:59.

:41:59. > :42:06.join me in congratulating the West Midlands Police on their

:42:06. > :42:11.performance with robbery down 31% and house burglaries down 29% in my

:42:11. > :42:17.area? Doesn't this show that reform is working? I think he makes an

:42:17. > :42:21.important point. We have seen just recorded crime fall by 6%, but also

:42:21. > :42:24.the crime survey showed it falling by 6% and this is at a time when we

:42:24. > :42:29.are making difficult decisions about police funding, but the

:42:29. > :42:31.combination of police reform, the changes and tougher approaches to

:42:31. > :42:36.criminal justice is seeing crime falling and public satisfaction

:42:36. > :42:39.with the police going up. Last year, Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister told

:42:40. > :42:45.the house at the Despatch Box there was no reason why front-line police

:42:45. > :42:48.officer numbers needed to go down. Yet, in my constituency in Harrow,

:42:48. > :42:52.there are fewer police on our streets. Isn't the real truth,

:42:52. > :42:56.Prime Minister, that there are 6,800 fewer police officers since

:42:56. > :43:03.he came to power? What is actually happening is the number of

:43:03. > :43:12.neighbourhood police officers is actually going up by 2,360 since

:43:12. > :43:18.2010. Mr Speaker, last week planning permission was granted for

:43:18. > :43:23.a large retail leisure park on derelict land between my

:43:23. > :43:26.constituency and the Corby constituency. It will create 2,000

:43:26. > :43:35.new jobs, have a large Marks & Spencer and a stunning nature

:43:35. > :43:41.reserve. Labour are opposed to that development. Could the Prime

:43:41. > :43:45.Minister tell the House who the people of Corby should support?

:43:45. > :43:51.Christine emet and the Conservatives campaigning for 2,000

:43:51. > :43:54.new jobs or Labour's Corby Luddites? My honourable friend

:43:54. > :43:58.makes an excellent point about how it is this party and Government who

:43:58. > :44:02.are getting behind economic development and as I just said,

:44:02. > :44:06.every piece of good news is a disaster for the party opposite.

:44:06. > :44:10.They wake up every morning, wanting more unemployment, but unemployment

:44:10. > :44:13.is coming down. They want inflation to rise, but it's coming down. As

:44:13. > :44:20.we can see in Corby, it's the Conservatives getting behind growth

:44:20. > :44:25.and jobs and the future. During the last election, the Prime Minister

:44:25. > :44:29.made many pledges to the people. One of those was to help rebalance

:44:29. > :44:33.the Northern Ireland economy. Given that our economy lags behind the UK

:44:33. > :44:37.average and indeed lags behind the position in Scotland in terms of

:44:37. > :44:39.key, economic indicators, when can we expect an announcement by the

:44:39. > :44:45.Prime Minister on the steps that he's going to take to help

:44:45. > :44:48.rebalance the economy? I do want to see the Northern Ireland economy

:44:49. > :44:52.rebalanced. It badly needs to, because of the size of the state

:44:52. > :44:56.sector and it counts for so much of Northern Ireland GDP. We are

:44:56. > :45:00.continuing to pursue the policy of looking at a lower corporation tax

:45:00. > :45:07.rate for Northern Ireland, because of the land border with the

:45:07. > :45:11.Republican. -- with the Republic. We need to look at boosting

:45:11. > :45:13.manufacturing and small businesses and do all the things we can to

:45:13. > :45:18.encourage inward investment into Northern Ireland, which I've been

:45:18. > :45:28.doing, including on the trips I've been making to other parts of the

:45:28. > :45:34.

:45:34. > :45:40.$:/STARTFEED. Will he as First Lord of the Treasury ensure that the

:45:40. > :45:47.Treasury stands four-square behind the Ministry of Justice to deliver

:45:47. > :45:52.these first generation of payment by results programmes which are the

:45:52. > :45:55.cash consequences of success for the next spending review period?

:45:55. > :46:01.should be bringing payment by results to all of the criminal-

:46:01. > :46:06.justice system. We spend over �1 billion on probation and I want to

:46:06. > :46:09.say payment by results being the norm rather than the exception.

:46:09. > :46:14.When the Treasury designed payment by results in the welfare system

:46:14. > :46:18.they allowed the Department of Wight and pensions to spend the

:46:18. > :46:23.future receipts of lower benefit claims. They will be equally

:46:23. > :46:29.inventive and creative when it comes to as getting better results

:46:29. > :46:33.in our criminal justice system. Last week from the dispatch box the

:46:33. > :46:39.Prime Minister said services at Kettering hospital were safe. This

:46:39. > :46:43.week we have learnt that the official review's best option is to

:46:43. > :46:49.get rid of many vital services in that hospital and to reduce the

:46:49. > :46:54.number of beds by 80%. Isn't the truth you cannot trust the Tories

:46:54. > :46:58.on the NHS? You can always guarantee Labour Members of

:46:58. > :47:06.Parliament will get up in Parliament and scaremonger about

:47:06. > :47:11.our NHS. What I said last week is right. Mr Speaker, with 170,000

:47:11. > :47:16.fewer people on benefits and 1 million new jobs created, should it

:47:16. > :47:21.not be clear that this Government's plan is working? The honourable

:47:21. > :47:26.lady makes an important point. There are more people in work than

:47:26. > :47:30.at any time in our history, more women in work, and this is the

:47:30. > :47:36.election the number of full-time jobs has increased faster than the

:47:36. > :47:41.number of part-time jobs. There is no complacency on these benches,

:47:41. > :47:48.but we have to continue to get people into work, and cracking down

:47:48. > :47:54.on youth unemployment. Could the Prime Minister explain the

:47:54. > :47:59.relationship between Virgin care donations to the Tory party and the

:47:59. > :48:04.number of Virgin care shareholders on commissioning group boards and

:48:04. > :48:10.the number of contracts awarded to Virgin care? All donations to

:48:10. > :48:15.political parties are properly disclosed and properly announced.

:48:15. > :48:20.The difference between the nations the Conservative Party gets from

:48:20. > :48:27.individuals and businesses and that trade unions giving to the label

:48:27. > :48:35.party is that they effectively by votes. That is the scandal in

:48:35. > :48:39.funding parties. Mr Speaker, under the previous Labour Government the

:48:39. > :48:45.NHS lost hundreds of millions of pounds because foreign patients and

:48:45. > :48:48.the cost of treating them was not properly recovered. Can I get an

:48:48. > :48:53.assurance that both the Department of Health and the Home Office will

:48:53. > :48:57.now work together to resolve this issue? I can get my honourable

:48:57. > :49:02.friend that assurance. This area has become much too complicated

:49:02. > :49:07.about who should pay how much and when. I have asked ministers to get

:49:07. > :49:13.together to simplify the process and I hope we can come up with a

:49:13. > :49:18.simplified system in which the public will have real trust. Jimmy

:49:18. > :49:26.Carr avoided �3.3 million of tax last year and the Prime Minister

:49:26. > :49:32.said that was morally wrong. Apple, Google, Facebook comic eBay and

:49:33. > :49:36.Starbucks have between them avoided at nearly �900 million. Will the

:49:36. > :49:41.Prime Minister now take this opportunity to condemn their

:49:41. > :49:44.behaviour as morally wrong? I think the honourable lady makes an

:49:44. > :49:49.important point and this is an international problem that all

:49:49. > :49:54.countries are struggling with, about how to make sure companies

:49:54. > :49:59.pay tax. I am not happy with the current situation, the HMRC needs

:50:00. > :50:03.to look at it carefully. We need to make sure we are encouraging these

:50:03. > :50:13.businesses to invest in this country, but they have to pay fair

:50:13. > :50:14.

:50:14. > :50:21.taxes as well. May I ask my right honourable friend why, as he told

:50:21. > :50:29.be on Monday, he thinks that the single currency needs a banking

:50:29. > :50:35.union? Because the crisis in the euro has not been caused by the

:50:35. > :50:43.absence of a banking union, but by the absence of a single, fiscal

:50:43. > :50:48.policy. Yet if the fiscal union were introduced, which would

:50:48. > :50:56.certainly be dominated by Germany, that would lead to the death of

:50:56. > :51:00.democracy throughout most of Europe. So, it is the least painful

:51:00. > :51:07.solution the abolition of the euro and the return to national

:51:07. > :51:13.currencies? What I would say to my right honourable friend is that I

:51:13. > :51:17.believe the insecurity in the euro- zone is caused impart by both those

:51:17. > :51:22.issues that he raises, the lack of a fiscal union, but also the lack

:51:22. > :51:26.of a banking union. One of the problems in the euro-zone is the

:51:26. > :51:30.different level of interest rates and part of that is because of

:51:30. > :51:35.concerns about the link between weak banks and sovereign

:51:35. > :51:40.governments. It is only when you have a banking union that you have

:51:40. > :51:45.greater security about those weak banks. We have a single currency in

:51:45. > :51:48.the UK and we also have a banking union. We would not treat banks

:51:48. > :51:54.differently because they were in Wales or Scotland or Northern

:51:55. > :51:59.Ireland. A working currency will need a working the banking union

:51:59. > :52:04.and that is consistent and sensible. Last week we had a Government chief

:52:04. > :52:09.Whip who was educated at Rugby public school and this week we have

:52:09. > :52:13.got one that has been educated at Eton. I wonder if the Prime

:52:13. > :52:20.Minister can give us an update on his campaign to spread privilege.

:52:20. > :52:30.People across this House would recognise that my right honourable

:52:30. > :52:33.

:52:33. > :52:42.friend and his record stands for itself. Order. The House must calm

:52:42. > :52:45.down. Let's hear from Mr Rob Wilson. After the appearance of the

:52:45. > :52:48.Director General before the Select Committee yesterday, I hope the

:52:49. > :52:54.House will agree it is essential the independent inquiries get to

:52:54. > :52:58.the truth. Full details of those inquiries are quite sketchy,

:52:59. > :53:03.despite letters I have sent to the BBC. Will the Prime Minister join

:53:03. > :53:07.me in calling for full details to be published today so that both

:53:07. > :53:12.enquiries can have the full confidence of the public and Jimmy

:53:12. > :53:15.Savile's of victims can hear the truth? Can I commend my honourable

:53:15. > :53:21.friend for the good and valuable and dedicated work he has done on

:53:21. > :53:27.this issue of making sure all of these institutions get to the truth.

:53:27. > :53:30.To be fair to the BBC, the two inquiries they set up qualify as

:53:30. > :53:34.independent inquiries. The enquiry into the Newsnight programme is

:53:34. > :53:39.being carried out by the former head of Sky News and the second,

:53:39. > :53:45.more important review, into the cultural practices of the BBC, is

:53:45. > :53:49.being led by a four appeal court judge. It is very important the BBC

:53:49. > :53:53.makes clear these inquiries can go where the evidence leads, they will

:53:53. > :53:58.have access to all the paperwork and they will be truly independent

:53:58. > :54:01.and get to the truth on behalf of all the victims of Jimmy Savile.

:54:01. > :54:06.The Prime Minister refused to answer a question at last week.

:54:06. > :54:11.Will he now tell us why he will not publish the e-mails and

:54:11. > :54:15.correspondence between himself, Rebekah Brooks, News International

:54:15. > :54:22.and Andy Coulson so we can judge for ourselves? What is he

:54:22. > :54:26.frightened of? Sang -- scandal or embarrassment? It was this

:54:26. > :54:35.Government that set up the Leveson Inquiry and has co-operated and

:54:35. > :54:42.given them all the information they have asked for it. In March, one of

:54:42. > :54:47.my constituents was informs her fiance, Private Daniel Wade, had

:54:47. > :54:53.died in Afghanistan. Three months later she gave birth to his baby.

:54:53. > :54:58.Mr Speaker, the Army will not accept maternity without evidence,

:54:58. > :55:02.nor will they release the DNA without a court order. As a

:55:02. > :55:06.consequence the baby receives nothing. What the Prime Minister

:55:06. > :55:11.helped to expedite this case? Would he require the Army routinely holes

:55:11. > :55:16.DNA as in other countries, such as the US? On the latter part I will

:55:16. > :55:23.look at that. I was as shocked as he was when I found out about this

:55:23. > :55:28.case. I will do everything I can to expedite a conclusion to it. The

:55:28. > :55:34.sincere condolences go to private Wade's family. This is a dreadful

:55:34. > :55:38.situation and cannot continue. The Ministry of Defence are aware of it

:55:38. > :55:42.and it raises complicated, legal issues, but the reactions from

:55:42. > :55:46.members of the House that shows we have to move quickly to get this

:55:46. > :55:55.sort it will stop does the Prime Minister recall telling the House

:55:55. > :56:00.that the UK would lead the world in eradicating modern-day slavery.

:56:00. > :56:05.Could he explain why we could not top out my bill to eradicate

:56:05. > :56:09.slavery in British companies? We have to move his campaign forward.

:56:09. > :56:14.This Government has an excellent record in combating modern-day

:56:14. > :56:19.slavery and we continue to commit fill our international aid

:56:19. > :56:23.programme to tackle where it exists in some of those countries.

:56:23. > :56:27.number of major employers in my constituency are calling for

:56:27. > :56:37.greater certainty from investors in one of the fastest growing sectors

:56:37. > :56:41.in the economy, low carbon energy. Will he ask for a power target for

:56:41. > :56:48.the power sector? We have already taken the most important step,

:56:48. > :56:53.which is to set the renewable Certificate out into the Peter, so

:56:53. > :56:58.investors know they can invest in offshore at Windsor, knowing what

:56:58. > :57:06.the return will be. There will be more details in the energy bill.

:57:06. > :57:11.Can I refer the Prime Minister to Hansard, 23rd May, 2012, when the

:57:11. > :57:16.honourable member for Belfast North asked, where he gave an undertaking

:57:16. > :57:23.he will not succumb to the dictat by the European Court of Human

:57:23. > :57:28.Rights in relation to prisoners voting? Can he tell us how he is

:57:28. > :57:31.going to get round breaking European there? I gave the

:57:31. > :57:36.honourable gentleman that assurance will stop the House of Commons has

:57:36. > :57:43.voted against prisoners having the vote, I do not want them to get the

:57:43. > :57:47.vote, I am clear about that. If it helps by having another vote in

:57:47. > :57:51.Parliament to put the legal position beyond doubt, I am happy

:57:51. > :57:59.to do that. But prisoners are not getting the vote under this

:57:59. > :58:03.Government. Is the Prime Minister aware that last year there was a

:58:03. > :58:10.Borough Council run referendum in my constituency about locating and

:58:10. > :58:20.energy and waste incinerator on the edge of King's Lynn? On a 61%

:58:20. > :58:20.

:58:20. > :58:26.turnout 65,516 of mind and my honourable member's constituents

:58:26. > :58:31.voted No. Does he agree that it is essential for local democracy and

:58:31. > :58:34.localism that my constituents and these people are listen to? It is

:58:35. > :58:44.important the planning system listens to local people and proper

:58:45. > :58:46.

:58:46. > :58:50.processes are followed and I am evidence file used to convict a

:58:51. > :58:55.paedophile if it still exists contains clear intelligence of a

:58:55. > :58:58.widespread paedophile ring. One of its members boasts of its links to

:58:58. > :59:03.a senior aide of a former Prime Minister who said he could smuggle

:59:03. > :59:08.in indecent images of children from abroad. The Leeds were not followed

:59:08. > :59:12.up, but if the files still exists I want to ensure that the

:59:12. > :59:16.Metropolitan Police Sicher the evidence, re- examine it and

:59:16. > :59:21.investigate clear intelligence suggesting a powerful Peder farm

:59:21. > :59:25.network linked to Parliament and Number 10. The honourable gentleman

:59:26. > :59:29.raises a very difficult and complex case. I am not entirely sure which

:59:29. > :59:34.a former Prime Minister he is referring tipple stop I would like

:59:34. > :59:37.to look very carefully to Hansard and the allegations he has made and

:59:37. > :59:47.see what the Government can do to help give him the assurances he

:59:47. > :59:48.

:59:48. > :59:51.seeks. Jacob Rees-Mogg. principle, does my right honourable

:59:51. > :59:57.friend think that statutory regulation could ever be compatible

:59:57. > :00:01.with a free press? My honourable friend is temptingly into

:00:01. > :00:06.commenting on what Lord Leveson might or might not recommend. I

:00:06. > :00:12.think it is important, having set up the inquiry on an all-party

:00:12. > :00:16.basis, we should allow him to produce his report. I think one can

:00:16. > :00:20.obsessed him much about how exactly these things are done. What matters

:00:20. > :00:25.is are we going to have a regulatory system in which the

:00:25. > :00:30.public will have confidence? If there are mistakes made, there are

:00:30. > :00:34.proper corrections. Newspapers can get fine, there is proper

:00:34. > :00:38.investigation. That seems to be the most important issue for all of us

:00:38. > :00:43.to address and we are going to put in place a system in which we can

:00:43. > :00:47.have confidence the public will support it and we can have an

:00:47. > :00:52.independent and very vigorous press. Is the Prime Minister aware that

:00:52. > :00:58.young people's unemployment in my constituency has gone up by 1,000%?

:00:58. > :01:00.What is he going to do about this scandal? We are putting in place

:01:00. > :01:06.through the wet programme and the Youth Contract the biggest scheme

:01:06. > :01:10.to help people get back into work. We have seen success in recent

:01:10. > :01:14.weeks and months. The recent figures saw a decline in the

:01:14. > :01:18.claimant count and a decline in unemployment and a decline in youth

:01:18. > :01:24.unemployment. There is more to do, but we are heading in the right

:01:24. > :01:29.direction. Will the Prime Minister promised a day that unlike other

:01:29. > :01:33.leaders in other parliaments in the UK he will never spend �100,000

:01:33. > :01:39.fighting the release of legal advice that he does not hold and

:01:39. > :01:45.never asked for? He asks a baffling question about a truly baffling

:01:45. > :01:50.situation, which is that we were told by the first minister in

:01:50. > :01:55.Scotland that he had legal advice about Scotland's plays in the

:01:55. > :01:59.European Union in the event of independence. They did not have any

:02:00. > :02:07.legal advice at all. When you shine a spotlight on the case for

:02:07. > :02:11.separation the SNP put, it completely falls apart. The Prime

:02:11. > :02:16.Minister has rightly expressed concern about child abuse in our

:02:16. > :02:21.institutions. Last year, at the Government reduced child protection

:02:21. > :02:26.measures in schools and changes to Ofsted mean that some schools will

:02:26. > :02:31.never be inspected on their child protection procedures. Will the

:02:31. > :02:36.Prime Minister now meet me and cross-party MPs from the all-party

:02:36. > :02:41.Child Protection Group to protect our children now and in the future?

:02:41. > :02:47.I am very happy to arrange a meeting between her and the new

:02:47. > :02:53.minister who has huge experience in this area. What we have tried to do

:02:53. > :02:59.is take a set of rules and regulations that involved nine, 10

:02:59. > :03:09.million more parents in this sort of thing and try to simplify it and

:03:09. > :03:20.

:03:20. > :03:23.concentrate on where it needed to $:/STARTFEED. There was talk about

:03:23. > :03:28.the low-energy price statement from the Prime Minister. It unravelled

:03:28. > :03:32.within hours of him making it and Ed Miliband had to have a pop at

:03:32. > :03:37.the West Coast Main Line, since that was pretty low-hanging fruit

:03:37. > :03:45.as well. He quoted the Prime Minister saying that the

:03:45. > :03:51.Conservatives were clear, competent and inspired. Then the about where

:03:51. > :03:56.did it all go wrong. There are other issues, including the Prime

:03:56. > :04:01.Minister giving very strong steer that he will not be come plying

:04:01. > :04:03.with the demand of the Strasbourg court to introduce votes for

:04:03. > :04:09.prisoners, though there was a story in the guard guard this morning

:04:09. > :04:16.saying they were prepared to do that, but he was pretty gat gorical.

:04:16. > :04:20.Ewas. -- categorical. He was, indeed. The viewers didn't pick up

:04:20. > :04:24.on that, but the performance. We have this, "I think Miliband had

:04:24. > :04:29.David Cameron on the ropes an Ed Miliband looks like a man

:04:29. > :04:33.rejuvenated." Steve from Liverpool said, "This is getting to be a

:04:33. > :04:37.weekly slaughter. David Cameron is in big trouble and now having real

:04:37. > :04:42.problems answering an increasingly competent Miliband." But we have

:04:42. > :04:46.this from Jacqueline, "The lines of questions are meaningless to me and

:04:46. > :04:51.frankly his silly jokes at the Chancellor's expense." That will be

:04:51. > :04:56.about the rail ticket. "This is a waste of time and silly point

:04:56. > :05:00.scoring." David,." The one-liners are awful. He needs to ask serious

:05:00. > :05:04.questions and stop trying to score petty points." There were many more

:05:04. > :05:12.along that line. While you were doing that we discovered the Chief

:05:12. > :05:17.Constable of West Yorkshire has resigned. That suggests that he's a

:05:17. > :05:23.casualty of the aftermath of the ills borough affair. Nick, thoughts

:05:23. > :05:26.on PMQs? I didn't think the central clashes got us very far. Ed

:05:26. > :05:29.Miliband will feel he's establishing in the public mind

:05:29. > :05:33.incompetence that affects ordinary voters and blaming David Cameron

:05:33. > :05:38.personally for it. Come Ron wanted to establish in the public mind a

:05:38. > :05:42.series of good bit of news. Most striking was the clearest possible

:05:42. > :05:46.hint I've ever seen a Prime Minister give about an economic

:05:46. > :05:51.piece of news he's seen that we haven't. Tomorrow, we get GDP

:05:51. > :05:56.figures, growth figures, that come out for the third quarter and he

:05:57. > :06:00.was saying the good news will keep on coming. That is saying to the

:06:00. > :06:04.country, "That's what we'll see tomorrow." That would mean the end

:06:04. > :06:09.of the double-dip recession and the beginning of a big argument about

:06:09. > :06:13.whether it proves anything at all. Is it just an Olympic factor or a

:06:13. > :06:16.bounce back after previously bad figures or the beginning of

:06:16. > :06:21.recovery? There will be fire and fury tomorrow about that. Frankly,

:06:21. > :06:26.I suspect the answer is we won't know until we get the next set of

:06:26. > :06:32.figures. Do you share my view that he knocked down this story that the

:06:32. > :06:37.Government was preparing to give prisoners votes to some? Well, yes

:06:37. > :06:42.and no. In other words, there's an argument, I think, going on within

:06:42. > :06:45.Government and there always has been, about how to respond to the

:06:45. > :06:49.European Court. There is a few that the Attorney-General feels very

:06:49. > :06:53.strongly about it and he repeated it today, that you cannot pick and

:06:53. > :06:57.choose which of these rulings you implement, otherwise you are

:06:57. > :07:02.inviting dictators around the world and regimes you don't approve of to

:07:02. > :07:06.do the same. You have to be seen to be come plieling if you can. It

:07:06. > :07:10.seems to me -- come plying if you can. It seems to me the Attorney-

:07:10. > :07:16.General has lost a key ally. He has Nick Clegg, but lost Ken Clarke. He

:07:16. > :07:20.has Chris Grayling, who is not going to be the man to will argue

:07:20. > :07:25.for that. There could be an argument, but I don't know this,

:07:25. > :07:31.but I believe there will be an argument going on that he hinted at,

:07:31. > :07:36.should the Government be seen to try to comply to say, "OK, this is

:07:36. > :07:43.what we have to do. We put it to Parliament." Then they say to the

:07:43. > :07:47.court, "We did our job. Sadly democracy had its day." Or do you

:07:47. > :07:50.take the view that it's -- there's no point bothering. The Prime

:07:50. > :07:56.Minister said if it would be necessary to have another vote he's

:07:57. > :08:00.prepared to do it. What he's trying to do is to say to the court we're

:08:00. > :08:07.trying and to Parliament don't worry about that. I think it's spot

:08:07. > :08:12.on. That is what is happening. Attorney-General has lost out?

:08:12. > :08:15.Prime Minister signalled to the backbenchers to vote against it. He

:08:15. > :08:20.said it was sick to his stomach and he's done the same thing and

:08:20. > :08:22.signalled to the House that he's not in favour of it, that the House

:08:22. > :08:27.is entirely able to vote against it, but also suggested there may be

:08:27. > :08:29.some vehicle for that. I think it's possible there will be a vote or a

:08:29. > :08:32.bill and you are in rather extraordinary position it's as

:08:32. > :08:36.though they are going through the motions of compliance. I think

:08:36. > :08:42.there are longer-term questions about the competence of the court,

:08:42. > :08:45.and other issues will come into the frame too, about why we now have a

:08:45. > :08:51.Supreme Court that is not supreme and whether in the end the House of

:08:51. > :08:58.Commons takes the decisions and while this issue might be did you

:08:58. > :09:04.fupbt, the long-term issues will have to be -- difupbt, the long-

:09:04. > :09:09.term issues will have to be ironed out. But if he said we are not

:09:09. > :09:14.going to do this, then we end up in a clash between the European Court

:09:14. > :09:17.of Human Rights and the British Government? Well, I was in the

:09:17. > :09:22.chamber at Strasbourg at the Council of Europe and we have

:09:22. > :09:27.completed for the first time in 26 years, our presidency of the

:09:27. > :09:30.Council of Europe. It was handled very well indeed, by the British,

:09:30. > :09:36.diplomatically and politically. Cameron as Prime Minister came and

:09:36. > :09:40.addressed the Council of Europe. He was absolutely superb. And he's

:09:40. > :09:44.polls apart from me on the issues, but on that afternoon he was

:09:44. > :09:49.excellent in handling that assembly and he makes the House of Commons

:09:49. > :09:54.look close knit in the spectrum of politics. He was diplomacy itself

:09:54. > :09:58.and on his game. There was no hint of wanting a clash whatsoever. This

:09:58. > :10:01.isn't the first time, as we know with Tony Blair and John Major, the

:10:01. > :10:06.British Prime Ministers give one tone of voice when they're on these

:10:06. > :10:10.shores and a rather different tone when they cross the Channel. I

:10:10. > :10:15.don't think myself that David Cameron wants the clash, actually.

:10:15. > :10:17.I don't think the Council of Europe, or the European Court, wants the

:10:17. > :10:21.clash either. I'm still optimistic a way will be found through. I

:10:21. > :10:25.don't know what shape or form it will take, but I don't think it

:10:25. > :10:29.will come to dying in the last ditch. What about you? I think

:10:29. > :10:33.people want to know what the Government's plans are. We are

:10:33. > :10:38.hearing hints and rumours. They don't know themselves. They are in

:10:38. > :10:41.the final stages. Then something else happens. As I said, I would

:10:41. > :10:45.really like to see what the legal advice is that the Government's had.

:10:45. > :10:54.The legal advice and I was talking to the Attorney-General about this,

:10:54. > :10:58.he hasn't published this, but we'll come on to this, but the legal

:10:58. > :11:02.advice from the Attorney-General is quite clear - we need to comply.

:11:02. > :11:07.That is the legal advice. We don't have to give all prisoners the vote,

:11:07. > :11:10.that seems to be the ruling. We are not the only ones in the frame. It

:11:10. > :11:15.ly is involved -- Italy is involved too. We are not the only ones in

:11:15. > :11:19.the frame. But why The Guardian story this morning - cleared nudged

:11:19. > :11:24.by the Attorney-General, I would suspect or his department, and they

:11:24. > :11:27.would say, "If we give votes to some prisoners, we'll be fine."

:11:27. > :11:32.That was always the European Court's argument, that there was an

:11:32. > :11:36.arbitrary ban on all prisoners not having the vote. And that if

:11:36. > :11:40.Parliament wanted to draw up a new way of determining that this or

:11:41. > :11:45.that category of prisoners didn't have the vote, that might pass the

:11:45. > :11:48.test that the court set, but it was arbitrary to say automatically,

:11:48. > :11:53.everyone without a judge considering, regardless of the

:11:53. > :11:57.circumstances. Now, remember, for viewers who think why do we care,

:11:57. > :12:02.the reason is that the courts may end up paying out to prisoners who

:12:02. > :12:08.bring court cases, who don't get the vote. The Government may be

:12:08. > :12:11.obliged to pay them. Therefore, the argument - There's an issue about

:12:11. > :12:18.paying compensation. You wouldn't necessarily have to do that. There

:12:18. > :12:25.is conflicting advice on that too. Enjoy being part of the Government?

:12:25. > :12:29.-- enjoy being out of the Government? Yes. Are you sure?

:12:29. > :12:36.Why? That's probably a longer conversation, but freedom to say

:12:36. > :12:39.more on the things you believe in and the things you want to do.

:12:39. > :12:42.Watson asked this rather bizarre question, out of the ordinary in a

:12:42. > :12:47.way, about a paedophile ring close to Downing Street in the years gone

:12:47. > :12:54.by. We are not exactly sure what he's talking about there. We have

:12:54. > :12:57.our suspicions it may involve some people who were aides to previous

:12:57. > :13:02.Prime Ministers, but until we get a clear eidea, it's probably better

:13:02. > :13:07.not to go in that direction. seems to me what he's trying to do

:13:07. > :13:12.and remember he was the person who was very heavily involved in the

:13:12. > :13:17.News International case, he has got a seam that he's mining of talking

:13:17. > :13:20.about scandals of this sort. What he was doing is helping the

:13:20. > :13:26.newspapers to extend their enquiries beyond the BBC and beyond

:13:26. > :13:29.the NHS, to arguing there was a ring in some sense in public life.

:13:29. > :13:32.The interesting thing will be whether newspapers now start to

:13:32. > :13:36.name names, start to ask questions about exactly who was involved, but

:13:36. > :13:39.that was clearly his name. There is no other reason for standing up and

:13:39. > :13:45.saying that in the House, other than the Prime Minister is giving a

:13:45. > :13:49.green light to MPs and Tom Watson is saying, "Start writing this."

:13:49. > :13:53.It's significant how carefully and seriously phrased was the Prime

:13:53. > :13:58.Minister's response, which makes you suspect immediately if you're a

:13:58. > :14:02.journalist with a snout, there must be some smoking gun here. There

:14:02. > :14:09.have been some stories in the press and recently too, and in the

:14:09. > :14:16.Murdoch press I'm seeing here at the weekend, about a former aide to

:14:16. > :14:20.a former Prime Minister apparently involved with underage boys. Until

:14:20. > :14:25.- these are sensitive matters and until we do some proper journalism

:14:25. > :14:30.we should hold back and find out what is being talked about. We

:14:30. > :14:35.learned the Prime Minister has to fight votes for prisoners and the

:14:35. > :14:39.GDP figures will be good tomorrow and there will be all hell breaking

:14:39. > :14:44.loose over Tom Watson's questions. There might be a signal for a

:14:44. > :14:50.future week. Tax avoidance. He was asked about Starbucks and he didn't

:14:50. > :14:54.promise any crackdown. He is probably thinking like former

:14:54. > :14:59.Chancellors, but there was a significant to Margaret Hodge

:14:59. > :15:03.saying, "I don't approve." It may be stating the obvious. My sources

:15:03. > :15:08.tell me there will be something in the autumn statement, which will be

:15:08. > :15:18.live on BBC Two from this very studio on 5th December from 11.30pm.

:15:18. > :15:18.

:15:18. > :15:20.Well done. You'll with be us. All day. These days the Suffragette

:15:20. > :15:23.campaign might seem like something that's confined to the history

:15:23. > :15:27.books - the grainy footage of women marching through the streets of the

:15:27. > :15:29.capital are from a different age. 106 years ago a mass lobby of women

:15:29. > :15:31.marched on Parliament, led by the Suffragette leader, Emmeline

:15:31. > :15:35.Pankhurst. Well, today another Pankhurst is marching through

:15:35. > :15:43.Westminster - her great-grand- daughter no less, Helen Pankhurst.

:15:43. > :15:47.She's on the Green with Conservative MP, Caroline Noakes.

:15:47. > :15:51.Welcome to both of you. Starting with you Helen, why do you feel the

:15:51. > :15:55.need to march today in the name of women's rights? Because there is

:15:55. > :15:57.still so much to do. If you look at the issue of political

:15:57. > :16:02.participation and the representation of women, the whole

:16:02. > :16:07.issue that my family was so involved in, we only have about a

:16:07. > :16:13.quarter of women MPs. 100 years later that really is not good

:16:13. > :16:18.enough. It needs to change, because without women MPs in equal

:16:18. > :16:23.proportion and the whom system of Parliament changing to enable women,

:16:23. > :16:33.then the policies that are enacted are not gendered, so we are

:16:33. > :16:39.

:16:39. > :16:45.perpetuating an you equal and unfem $:/STARTFEED. What sort of things

:16:45. > :16:50.would you like to see? If austerity measures were looked at to see

:16:50. > :16:56.whether or not a whole set of factors were super imposing upon

:16:56. > :17:01.each other to make women's position even worse, so we look at issues

:17:01. > :17:07.such as childcare provision and the cuts to that, issues such as women

:17:07. > :17:10.being more predominant in the public sector, etc, the austerity

:17:10. > :17:15.measures are disproportionately affecting women and that needs to

:17:15. > :17:20.be looked at. We have got Caroline Noakes are there. What is the

:17:20. > :17:25.Government doing to mitigate those? The austerity measures are

:17:25. > :17:30.important. We want to see more women in work and employment

:17:30. > :17:34.statistics are showing that figure is up. But also things like

:17:34. > :17:38.business mentors, encouraging women to start their own businesses. I

:17:38. > :17:44.was pleased with the modifications of the Chancellor made to the child

:17:44. > :17:47.benefit policy because I was worried particularly for a single

:17:47. > :17:52.income households, the changes in their original form could have had

:17:52. > :17:55.a significant impact on my knees. There is a march going on today in

:17:55. > :17:59.the name of a women's rights because they feel there are not

:17:59. > :18:03.policies answering their concerns, the Government is failing in their

:18:03. > :18:07.eyes. The Government is not failing, it is working in difficult times to

:18:07. > :18:11.make sure we have a good range of policies that are supporting

:18:12. > :18:15.families, by making sure mortgage rates stay exceptionally low and by

:18:15. > :18:20.making sure there are more or employ Matt Tebbutt Trinity's in

:18:20. > :18:24.the employment sector. But at their height I endorse the regions behind

:18:25. > :18:32.the march and I want to see more women in Parliament making sure we

:18:32. > :18:36.see a range of issues. In his end up being done? It is a cross-party

:18:36. > :18:44.issue. We have to have women in Parliament working across the

:18:44. > :18:49.divides to ensure things are going to change. If all the MPs do not

:18:49. > :18:57.speak of their particular policies, we will not address the fundamental

:18:57. > :19:01.reality that we are not addressing the population's issues as a whole.

:19:01. > :19:06.What would you like to see Caroline Noakes doing it to mark a young

:19:06. > :19:13.women in Parliament. The very fact she did not respond negatively to

:19:13. > :19:18.the march and the lobby is good. I think the fact we have a resurgence

:19:18. > :19:22.of women's rights activism, a number of people on their own

:19:22. > :19:27.coming to lobby in Parliament, this is not large organisations lobbying

:19:27. > :19:35.on behalf of the organisations, these are individual constituency

:19:35. > :19:41.members saying I would like to talk to my MP about issues such as the

:19:41. > :19:45.cuts against women, 230 women are being turned away by a refuge on an

:19:45. > :19:50.average day. We need to see more women represented in parliament and

:19:50. > :19:54.all the women MPs know that and we need to see the male MPs and we

:19:54. > :20:02.need to see leadership to get change now, not in another 100

:20:02. > :20:05.years' time. Nick Herbert, there has been a landmark ruling today

:20:05. > :20:10.against Birmingham City Council which has lost its appeal against

:20:10. > :20:14.claims from a female staff who were denied a bonus when most of the

:20:14. > :20:21.male staff in traditionally male jobs were given theirs. What do you

:20:21. > :20:25.say to that request Denmark why is that happening in this day and age?

:20:25. > :20:31.You can always say there would be an impact on employers in a

:20:31. > :20:36.difficult time for implementing some kind of equality. But why is

:20:36. > :20:41.it acceptable in today's society that women doing the same work as

:20:41. > :20:47.rent received low pay? They do get lower pay. It is unacceptable and

:20:47. > :20:51.we have to start from that position. On the broader issue of

:20:51. > :21:01.representation of women is the question of whether there is a need

:21:01. > :21:01.

:21:02. > :21:07.for a law or a lead. We need both. Assessments are being done to make

:21:07. > :21:10.sure that the changes are not disproportionately damaging. We

:21:10. > :21:16.have to make certain women are given that proper opportunity,

:21:16. > :21:24.which they still are not. Be is that enough? Not at all. The reason

:21:24. > :21:31.we have got far more women MPs is because Labour took all-women short

:21:31. > :21:35.lists. We had to do that to make the progress. I think the

:21:35. > :21:40.Government is totally out of touch with what is happening to women

:21:40. > :21:44.across the board. Cuts to child care comet women's unemployment.

:21:44. > :21:49.The biggest growth has been unemployment four or older women,

:21:49. > :21:54.women in their fifties. We have seen huge cuts to the care service

:21:54. > :22:00.so that women who are helping with grandchildren and looking after

:22:00. > :22:04.relatively Ella tears -- relatives, the Government does not get it.

:22:04. > :22:12.thought you were ready to jump in a frankly with an answer irrespective

:22:12. > :22:19.of what I said. Just urging people does not work. We have record

:22:19. > :22:23.numbers of women in employment in this country. That is good news to

:22:23. > :22:33.tell. Of course there have to be cuts in public spending. A women's

:22:33. > :22:37.unemployment is a high is for 25 years. There is a relative measure

:22:37. > :22:43.of protection for child provision. You are back to the same opposition

:22:43. > :22:49.which is just always opposing. do not understand what is happening.

:22:49. > :22:57.Charles, you can have the final word. As the rows between two

:22:57. > :23:02.thorns. The Government said, we are fully hoping for equality, but

:23:02. > :23:07.local devolved pay is a different matter. I think that is an

:23:07. > :23:13.important constitutional principle. I think they are correct on that. I

:23:13. > :23:17.think the key thing is I spent a long time over this in the party

:23:17. > :23:23.and we had Cherie Booth advising us about quotas and all the rest of it,

:23:23. > :23:30.and very good she was as well, when I was in the Lib Dems. I am not

:23:30. > :23:35.persuaded by quotas and legislation. The Davies report of last year has

:23:35. > :23:41.been based on a voluntary principle and most women over 80% respondents

:23:41. > :23:45.agreed with that approach. We have to go north of the border now.

:23:45. > :23:49.It is not that far. What would you call an omni

:23:49. > :23:55.shambles in Scotland? The SNP leader Alex Salmond did not have

:23:55. > :24:01.the best of days yesterday. First, two of his backbenchers resigned

:24:01. > :24:06.the Whip over his party's changing stance on NATO. Then he had to

:24:06. > :24:10.admit his Government had not sought legal advice on an independent

:24:10. > :24:19.Scotland status inside the European Union, despite telling me in March

:24:19. > :24:24.they had. Have you sought advice from Your Own Scottish law? We have,

:24:24. > :24:30.yes. What did they say? You can read that in the documents we put

:24:30. > :24:36.forward. What did they say? cannot reveal the legal advice of

:24:36. > :24:41.the officers, you know that. Everything we publish his

:24:41. > :24:47.consistent with the legal advice that we have received. That was

:24:47. > :24:49.Alex Salmond talking to me in the granite City of Aberdeen in March.

:24:49. > :24:54.Here is Nicola Sturgeon in the Scottish parliament in Edinburgh

:24:54. > :24:58.yesterday. In light of the Edinburgh agreement, by which both

:24:58. > :25:02.governments have agreed the process for Scotland to achieve

:25:02. > :25:07.independence. The Government has now commissioned a specific legal

:25:07. > :25:10.advice from our law officers on the position of Scotland within the

:25:11. > :25:14.European Union if independence is achieved through this process will

:25:14. > :25:18.stop the Scottish Government has previously cited opinions from a

:25:18. > :25:26.number of eminent legal authorities, past and present, in support of its

:25:26. > :25:28.few... Order, order. In support of its view that an independent

:25:28. > :25:34.Scotland will continue in membership of the European Union,

:25:34. > :25:39.but has not sought specifically that advice, however as the

:25:39. > :25:42.Edinburgh agreement provides the exact content of the process of

:25:42. > :25:49.abstaining independence, we now have the basis on which specific

:25:49. > :25:54.legal advice can be sought. The it was the Deputy First Minister. I am

:25:54. > :25:59.joined from Edinburgh by Jamie Hepburn. Have you been able to

:25:59. > :26:04.establish why it when I asked Alex Salmond if he had sought advice

:26:04. > :26:10.from his own Scottish law offices in this matter that he said years

:26:10. > :26:14.when it turned out the answer was No? This is a gross

:26:14. > :26:19.misinterpretation perhaps on your part, Andrew. I have got the

:26:19. > :26:23.transcript in front of me and it is perfectly clear what the first

:26:23. > :26:31.minister was referring to he was referring to the fact the Scottish

:26:31. > :26:35.Government had published a number of documents that were of course

:26:35. > :26:42.underpinned by legal advice. Every single document published by this

:26:43. > :26:47.Scottish Government is underpinned by legal advice. Let's look at the

:26:47. > :26:51.full context. This was in the context of an interview that asked

:26:51. > :26:57.him what Scotland's status would be if it became an independent nation

:26:57. > :27:03.in the European Union. Would it have to apply again for membership?

:27:03. > :27:08.He said no. I then quoted some legal experts who said it would. He

:27:08. > :27:13.quoted either experts who said it would not, but they were all in the

:27:13. > :27:17.private sector. I asked him if he had had official advice from his

:27:17. > :27:24.own law officers, and he said he had, but he could not tell me what

:27:24. > :27:27.it was. What has changed? suggest the advise the first

:27:27. > :27:33.minister had proffered was all based in the private sector pulls

:27:33. > :27:38.up again he was referring to the secretary general of the European

:27:38. > :27:44.Union, the director general of the European Union, I have got the

:27:44. > :27:50.documents in front of me. They are not part of the Scottish Government.

:27:50. > :27:54.I asked him if he had had advice from his own Scottish law makers.

:27:54. > :27:58.Are they yes does not mean years and we are end Bill Clinton

:27:59. > :28:05.territory, have you sought advice from your own Scottish law officers

:28:05. > :28:09.in this matter? We have, yes. What did I not understand? The first

:28:09. > :28:15.minister was quite clearly referring to existing documents.

:28:15. > :28:20.That was quite clear. Excuse me, he said he could not tell me what the

:28:20. > :28:24.advice was because this kind of advice was not published. Why would

:28:24. > :28:29.he tell me he could not publish advice he did not have been the

:28:29. > :28:33.first place? He said, I'm sorry I cannot tell you that advice. Alex

:28:33. > :28:40.Salmond is not above the Ministerial Code and has to adhere

:28:40. > :28:46.to that code. He is not only allowed to comment on advice given.

:28:46. > :28:51.He did not have the advice. Some of the confusion has come from the

:28:51. > :28:57.interactions made. I am going to interrupt you now. We are going to