31/10/2012

:00:42. > :00:46.Good morning. This is the Daily Politics. "Continuing as we are is

:00:46. > :00:49.not an acceptable option". So says Tarzan, who has emerged from the

:00:49. > :00:52.political jungle to issue a not very pleasant message for the

:00:53. > :00:58.government on its economic strategy. He wants bolder action to be taken

:00:58. > :01:01.on growth, infrastructure, an airport and energy. We'll be

:01:01. > :01:04.finding out exactly what he wants when we talk to Lord Heseltine

:01:05. > :01:09.later in the programme. Talking of energy the Conservative

:01:09. > :01:13.Energy Minister, John Hayes, appears to have had enough of these.

:01:13. > :01:16.But is he blowing just a lot of hot air?

:01:16. > :01:21.We'll be looking at the political shenanigans being played out over

:01:21. > :01:24.Europe ahead of the vote tonight on the EU budget.

:01:24. > :01:34.And forget bob-a-job week, or learning about knots. Politics is

:01:34. > :01:48.

:01:48. > :01:54.I used to do Bob Bird job. A way you in the Scouts?

:01:54. > :01:59.I was a cub. We showed the wrong wind farms. It

:01:59. > :02:02.is the onshore wind farms he has a problem with.

:02:02. > :02:05.Yes all that and more coming up in the next 90 minutes of truly

:02:05. > :02:08.terrifying TV, which frankly this programme is every week, not just

:02:08. > :02:15.on Halloween. And with us for the duration we have Count Dracula and

:02:15. > :02:19.Van Helsing. I leave you to decide which is which. The Business

:02:19. > :02:24.Minister, Michael Fallon, and the Shadow Welsh Secretary, Owen Smith.

:02:24. > :02:29.Welcome to you both. Now first today enough is enough. No we're

:02:29. > :02:31.not coming off air now. We're going to talk about wind farms, because

:02:31. > :02:39.the Conservative Energy Minister, John Hayes, doesn't appear to like

:02:39. > :02:42.them very much. He's apparently ordered a new analysis for the case

:02:42. > :02:44.of onshore wind farms which he says should form the basis of future

:02:44. > :02:53.government policy, rather than, "a bourgeois left article of faith

:02:54. > :02:58.based on some academic perspective". I think you can see where he's

:02:58. > :03:03.coming from. Anyway, does he have a point? And is everyone happy? Well

:03:03. > :03:11.not his boss, we're told, the Energy Secretary, Ed Davey. And not,

:03:12. > :03:16.I suspect the Liberal Democrat MP, Andrew George, who joins us now.

:03:16. > :03:22.What is your reaction? I think John is as entertaining as ever with his

:03:22. > :03:28.usual panache. Your picture, as you were showing of offshore wind is

:03:28. > :03:33.not the issue. We did clarify that. The issue of onshore wind is a bit

:03:33. > :03:38.of a dog whistle issue for some Conservatives. They object to the

:03:38. > :03:45.matter. The Government policy remains as it is, 20% of energy

:03:45. > :03:53.supply from renewable sources by 2020. I thought it was a 30%.

:03:53. > :04:01.you are, 30%, it goes up. Be very significant amount of VAT will come

:04:01. > :04:07.from wind. Most of it will be wind? The most significant and economic

:04:07. > :04:12.the efficient method by which you obtain renewable energy is from the

:04:12. > :04:22.wind and onshore wind is the most economic of all. If it is economic,

:04:22. > :04:23.

:04:23. > :04:28.why does it need a huge subsidy? does not need a huge subsidy.

:04:28. > :04:34.is so economic why does it need a guaranteed twice -- Prize, twice

:04:35. > :04:40.the guaranteed rate? It gets a lower subsidy than any renewable

:04:40. > :04:49.energy. His is hydro electric power. It gets less than any of the other

:04:49. > :04:53.new forms of renewable energy. All I would say is planning matters are

:04:53. > :04:59.matters that need to be determined on their merits. How much energy,

:04:59. > :05:07.as we speak, is being generated by wind power? At the moment, I do not

:05:08. > :05:14.know the actual figure. As we speak at 11:15am this morning is 6%. Your

:05:14. > :05:20.target is to get to 30% in eight years. From all renewables.

:05:20. > :05:25.most of it will come from wins, can you do that? It is a challenge, but

:05:25. > :05:29.it is one the Government wants to take on. Is it a challenge now John

:05:29. > :05:35.Hayes has said it is not in your policy any more? He is talking from

:05:35. > :05:40.a personal perspective. No, he is the Energy Minister. He is not

:05:40. > :05:43.spouting Government policy. What is Government policy on wind farms?

:05:43. > :05:50.is to encourage renewables of all kinds, to meet the target Andrew

:05:50. > :05:57.has described. You said wind is 6%, it has been increasing over the

:05:57. > :06:03.next few years. We do not set a target from each renewable sectors,

:06:03. > :06:08.we want them all. Is it Government policy to build a more onshore wind

:06:08. > :06:11.farms? These things are determined locally. It is not for the

:06:11. > :06:17.Government to determine where a wind farm should be. But whether

:06:17. > :06:27.his consent, we welcome the contribution wind makes onshore and

:06:27. > :06:31.

:06:31. > :06:36.offshore. The Government policy is for 1000 wind farms. If it is down

:06:36. > :06:40.to localism, which is what you seem to be saying, what happened if

:06:40. > :06:45.every locality said we do not want to wind farms? How would you need

:06:45. > :06:49.your target? There would be the contribution from offshore wind and

:06:49. > :06:54.other sources. There are already onshore wind farms, and there will

:06:54. > :06:58.be more of them, but it is for the local community to decide if they

:06:58. > :07:04.want these things. In some areas of the country, it is windier than

:07:05. > :07:10.others. Then there are 3,000 onshore wind turbines at the moment.

:07:10. > :07:17.The Government is planning another 4,000. Of course, locals can be

:07:17. > :07:21.overruled. I ask again, after John Hayes, is it Government policy to

:07:21. > :07:26.build another 4,000 onshore wind farms? It is Government policy to

:07:26. > :07:31.encourage onshore, offshore, all types of renewable. We're not

:07:31. > :07:36.saying we have to have 4,000 onshore wind farms by a certain

:07:36. > :07:40.date, these things have to be determined locally. And locals on

:07:40. > :07:45.never overruled in these matters? They can be overruled, but it

:07:45. > :07:51.depends on each case, on the merits of each application. They are over

:07:51. > :07:57.ruled on they? Of course. So it is not all down to the locals? What

:07:57. > :08:00.the Government are doing is undertaking a review as to how we

:08:00. > :08:07.ensure the communities that are closest to the wind farms gain

:08:07. > :08:12.additional benefit. You have an open goal here. Can you get

:08:12. > :08:18.anywhere near your renewable target if you do not build the 4,000 plant

:08:18. > :08:24.onshore turbines? That is a target and it is very laudable. You have

:08:24. > :08:29.not answered my question. I have wind farms in my constituency...

:08:29. > :08:35.Can you meet the target if you do not build 4,000 more onshore wind

:08:35. > :08:42.turbines? There are many ways that target can be met. A target of

:08:42. > :08:47.4,000 is in the plan, and it is down to the locals to decide.

:08:47. > :08:55.Smith, shoot. I am none Budweiser as to the Government's policy.

:08:55. > :08:58.thought it was just meat. -- none the wiser. We have Ed Davey saying

:08:58. > :09:04.he is in favour of more wind farms and Michael Fallon sitting on the

:09:04. > :09:09.fence and getting splinters in the studio. Painful, he's used to that.

:09:09. > :09:14.Government policy was to try and increase the volume of onshore wind

:09:14. > :09:18.power. We know it is the cheapest and most developed of the renewable

:09:18. > :09:23.facilities we have. We know it makes sense. The Government will be

:09:23. > :09:28.in power -- were we in power, would be sending more signals we need

:09:28. > :09:35.more wind power and need to invest in a renewable sector, apart from

:09:35. > :09:37.the shambles from the Tories and the Lib Dems.

:09:37. > :09:40.Now the Taxpayers' Alliance have published figures today showing

:09:40. > :09:43.that trade unions received �113 million of taxpayer subsidy last

:09:43. > :09:49.year in direct payments and through staff being paid to work on union

:09:49. > :09:51.business. The unions say this is money well spent with union

:09:51. > :09:57.representation helping to reduce absenteeism and increase

:09:57. > :10:00.productivity. We asked the TUC to come on and discuss the issue but

:10:00. > :10:08.no one was available, we also asked for a pre-recorded interview, but

:10:08. > :10:12.no-one was available. No one is at home. But we can now speak to

:10:12. > :10:19.Matthew Sinclair, from the Taxpayers' Alliance. How do you get

:10:20. > :10:23.to the figure of �113 million? built up by going to public sector

:10:23. > :10:28.organisations across the country, NHS trusts, councils, Government

:10:28. > :10:37.departments, and asking how many trade union staff they were

:10:37. > :10:40.allocating, and what payments they were making. It is an underestimate,

:10:41. > :10:45.because a lot of organisations were not recording how much time they

:10:45. > :10:51.were giving to the trade unions. The TUC dispute that figure, but

:10:51. > :10:57.even if you take the figure at face value, it works at a 25p per public

:10:57. > :11:02.sector worker per week. That does not sound like bad value. That is

:11:02. > :11:10.an underestimated figure. Look at the 25p a week. What Francis Maude

:11:10. > :11:15.wants to cut this to his 0.1% of the public bill. We have huge

:11:15. > :11:23.arguments about much smaller sums of money. It is an enormous subsidy.

:11:23. > :11:26.In terms of politics, and frees up their resources to campaign on,

:11:26. > :11:32.that can buy everything in Westminster and twice over. It is

:11:32. > :11:36.an enormous amount of money in a specific interest group. What does

:11:36. > :11:40.that interest group do? Is it a waste of money to look after and

:11:40. > :11:44.represent employees in the public sector, and of course there are a

:11:44. > :11:49.union representatives in the private sector. Is it a waste of

:11:49. > :11:53.money, they shouldn't be represented at save the public

:11:53. > :11:58.purse a lot of money in terms of dispute resolution, training take

:11:58. > :12:03.up and health and safety? I do not think there is anything wrong with

:12:03. > :12:06.people being represented. My organisation is to represent the

:12:06. > :12:11.taxpayer's interest. But if you are representing someone, it shouldn't

:12:11. > :12:16.be paid for by someone else. It Union staff are representing their

:12:16. > :12:22.members, they should pay for it. If you are working for the trade union,

:12:22. > :12:27.you should be paid for by the trade union. Taxpayers shouldn't have to

:12:27. > :12:32.pick up the bill, particularly when unions use resources for strikes,

:12:32. > :12:37.fight necessary reforms to pensions and necessary control in public

:12:37. > :12:41.spending. There is nothing wrong with a lot of what trade unions do,

:12:41. > :12:44.they have a legitimate function, but all those legitimate functions

:12:44. > :12:48.are being paid for by taxpayers, which frees up their own resources

:12:48. > :12:51.which should be used to pay for things like representation and be

:12:51. > :12:56.spent on political campaigns and functions that shouldn't be having

:12:56. > :13:01.the bill picked up by taxpayers. New don't disagree with what they

:13:01. > :13:05.are doing in terms of representation? Do you agree with

:13:05. > :13:15.the research commissioned by the Department for business, that in

:13:15. > :13:19.2007, those union representatives save the public purse between 170

:13:19. > :13:24.million and 200 million a year. That looks like it is saving money?

:13:24. > :13:28.If you look at the kind of estimates being found on official

:13:28. > :13:31.estimates of the full scale of this, not just the ones we could pin down

:13:31. > :13:36.to specific organisations. And the range is lower than the estimates

:13:36. > :13:41.of the cost of this. In terms of cost benefits, unless you take the

:13:41. > :13:45.high end of the range, it does not justify this as a spending item.

:13:45. > :13:50.Beyond that, a lot of what they are claiming, it will lead to lower

:13:50. > :13:59.sick leave, but there is far more time off in the public sector than

:13:59. > :14:03.in the private sector and there is also more sick leave. Why don't

:14:03. > :14:09.union just pay for this? Public sector and private sector employers

:14:09. > :14:15.think it is good use of public and private sector money to facilitate

:14:15. > :14:18.the employment of Union... Private sector pay for their own?

:14:18. > :14:24.public sector pays for people because they know it saves them

:14:24. > :14:30.money. It is not new, this is the second time the TaxPayers' Alliance

:14:30. > :14:34.have announced this alleged 113 million in November. It is

:14:34. > :14:44.interesting when the governments are in trouble on all sorts of

:14:44. > :14:46.

:14:46. > :14:52.issues. Should they be rolling out this 100 and think -- 113 million

:14:52. > :14:57.as nonsense. In 2007, they are reviewed it and said it saves them

:14:57. > :15:00.money. I don't think the TaxPayers' Alliance are disagreeing the

:15:00. > :15:04.functions are useful and could bring down costs to the public

:15:04. > :15:09.sector, but why don't the unions' pay for it? It is not like they

:15:09. > :15:14.don't have many of their own? theory the unions could pay for it.

:15:14. > :15:19.They should. Public sector and private sector employers who pay

:15:19. > :15:24.for facility down -- time had done so since the early 1990s when this

:15:24. > :15:28.was established in law by the Tory Government in 1992. They have done

:15:28. > :15:32.so because they think it is a good use of public or private money.

:15:32. > :15:35.They've been think it is good because it allows for proper

:15:35. > :15:40.representation of the workforce, a proper channel of engaging with the

:15:40. > :15:44.workforce, it reduces costs a recruitment and lost hours,

:15:44. > :15:49.sickness. It is clear why they do it. If they did nothing it was

:15:49. > :15:54.worthwhile, it would stop. It has got out of hand. What has got out

:15:54. > :15:59.of hand? The mound of union activity on the public sector pay

:15:59. > :16:03.roll. The school's budget is used to finance teachers who are not

:16:03. > :16:05.teaching, but sitting in a union office negotiating on behalf of

:16:05. > :16:15.their members but not doing any teaching. The school's budget

:16:15. > :16:23.

:16:23. > :16:28.You should be paying teachers to teach, not to sit in a union

:16:28. > :16:32.offices. Watch out, animal hunters, Tarzan

:16:32. > :16:38.is back. Yes, Michael government intervention Heseltine has returned

:16:38. > :16:44.to the police could jungle with his new Treasury Commission report

:16:44. > :16:48.which promises to leave no stone unturned. At this moment I shall

:16:48. > :16:54.turn to Jo and she will give you an exposition of what is in the

:16:54. > :17:00.Heseltine report. But I am lost for words. Our computer has got stuck.

:17:00. > :17:04.I have offered to whack it with a spanner but they said no. It is

:17:04. > :17:10.probably being powered by windmills which is why we cannot use it.

:17:10. > :17:17.Onshore ones. So, Mr Heseltine says, your government does not have a

:17:17. > :17:21.strategy for growth. commissioned this report. We asked

:17:21. > :17:25.Michael Heseltine to do this. He has come forward with a whole range

:17:25. > :17:31.of ideas which we are going to follow up. He wants to go further

:17:31. > :17:34.and faster for growth and so do we. You go and have a major

:17:34. > :17:39.restructuring of local government. He has put forward different ideas.

:17:39. > :17:43.You can go to a unitary authority which is what he is suggesting.

:17:43. > :17:48.There is nothing stopping a council orate group of councils coming to

:17:48. > :17:51.us and wanting to take out a layer of bureaucracy. He recognises what

:17:51. > :17:57.we are doing on local enterprise partnerships as the key to growth.

:17:57. > :18:04.We are doing that as well. A un favour of handing 58 billions of

:18:04. > :18:09.pounds of Whitehall cash -- are you win favour? We are already handing

:18:09. > :18:14.money to cities. We have eight core cities and City deals at the moment.

:18:14. > :18:19.We invited 20 to apply in the second wave of this week. He is

:18:19. > :18:27.suggesting we should transfer more of the skills budget down from

:18:27. > :18:31.central by Jim down to the cities and local enterprise partnerships.

:18:31. > :18:38.Are you going to give more power to local enterprise partnerships?

:18:38. > :18:41.have already given their money. much? 24 million over the last two

:18:41. > :18:45.years. They are getting core funding now. They are coming

:18:45. > :18:54.forward with their growth plans. It is for them to tell central

:18:54. > :18:58.government what their priorities are. Michael Heseltine, he wants

:18:58. > :19:01.them to have 58 billion. That is a different scale. I gave them money

:19:01. > :19:06.for their capacities and own resources to finance themselves. He

:19:06. > :19:12.says they should have more control over government spending programmes.

:19:12. > :19:15.That is only a couple of billion. think it is more than that. Do you

:19:15. > :19:20.favour coming out with an aviation policy this side of the election

:19:20. > :19:24.which he has called for? We need to look carefully at the issue of

:19:24. > :19:31.where hub airports should be. We think there should be a hub airport.

:19:31. > :19:34.We think that should not be done by politicians by somebody independent.

:19:34. > :19:39.We have asked Howard Davies. Michael Heseltine is saying it

:19:39. > :19:43.should come out before the election. It is a simple question. Do you

:19:43. > :19:47.think that should happen on not? are not responding to the entire

:19:47. > :19:52.report today. What the Chancellor has said it is he is going to set

:19:52. > :19:55.out his response in the Autumn Statement on 6th December and tell

:19:55. > :20:00.you what we are going to do with each of the recommendations.

:20:00. > :20:05.Michael Heseltine is impatient for growth and so are we. That is

:20:05. > :20:11.because you have not had any. economy is growing now. Where were

:20:11. > :20:17.you last week? How since your government came to power we have

:20:17. > :20:23.had 0.6 % growth. Whereas, in June 2010 you predicted almost 6% growth,

:20:23. > :20:28.or the OBR did, say you are out by a factor of 10. It was an

:20:28. > :20:37.independent forecast. But you depend on it. You drop the cuts on

:20:37. > :20:40.the basis of a projected 6% growth, you have had a 0.6. I don't think

:20:40. > :20:43.anybody knew just how prolonged the problems in the eurozone would be

:20:43. > :20:51.and some of the fall-off in growth we have had in the rest of the

:20:51. > :20:54.world. Nobody predicted that. come on. The recession lasted

:20:54. > :21:00.longer than anybody thought. It turned out that boom-and-bust was

:21:00. > :21:05.far worse than anybody estimated. The big news is we are growing now.

:21:05. > :21:10.All right, are you in favour of an interventionist industrial policy

:21:10. > :21:15.as Michael Heseltine calls? We have an industrial strategy which Vince

:21:15. > :21:19.Cable set out in a speech a month ago. That means more collaboration

:21:19. > :21:25.on research and development in each sector, it means looking at the

:21:25. > :21:30.skills gap in each of the sectors, so yes, we have... Are you in

:21:31. > :21:34.favour of an interventionist policy? I am not sure what the

:21:34. > :21:39.differences. We do not want to pick winners but we want to help each

:21:39. > :21:43.sector pick its own winners and focus on what needs to be done on

:21:43. > :21:48.partnership with government. This is probably your second own goal of

:21:48. > :21:53.the day. I am trying to think of questions to ask you. You must love

:21:53. > :22:00.all this? No, we do not love it. What Heseltine has pointed out is

:22:00. > :22:05.the reality that we do not have a growth strategy in this country. I

:22:05. > :22:08.think it is broadly agree with what we have been saying for the last

:22:08. > :22:13.two years which is a, you do need an active industrial strategy. You

:22:13. > :22:17.do need government to intervene. You do need to have not got rid of

:22:18. > :22:26.the RDAs. The supreme irony of Michael Heseltine saying you have

:22:26. > :22:33.got it wrong, you have to have money is spent in the regions.

:22:33. > :22:41.the contrary... He believes you should have an interventionist

:22:41. > :22:44.government. Can I ask you, is a Labour in favour of passing �58

:22:44. > :22:48.billion of Whitehall spending through the local enterprise

:22:48. > :22:52.partnerships? We are in favour of much greater emphasis on regional

:22:52. > :22:58.growth. I understand that, that is like saying you are in favour of

:22:58. > :23:02.motherhood and apple pie. Are you in favour of giving �58 billion of

:23:02. > :23:08.Whitehall cash to the local enterprise partnerships? You would

:23:08. > :23:12.not expect me to say now worth around in favour of 58, 57 off �43

:23:12. > :23:18.billion. What we are in favour of his money being spent at a local

:23:18. > :23:21.level by effective organisations. That is what we had when we had

:23:21. > :23:25.Regional Development agencies right across the country which had real

:23:25. > :23:30.powers and real resources. This is an important point, unfortunately,

:23:30. > :23:35.the government got rid of those things. What Michael Heseltine was

:23:35. > :23:40.saying is they got it wrong. have made a point twice already.

:23:40. > :23:44.I'm sure it is a good point but it is not one I am asking. We will

:23:44. > :23:49.move on. We know when we are beaten. We will be talking to Tarzan

:23:49. > :23:57.himself, Michael Heseltine, live after Prime Minister's Questions.

:23:57. > :24:02.Now, Darth Maul, Greedo and Boba Fett, D you-know-who they are? They

:24:02. > :24:06.are not members of the European Central Bank. Apparently they are

:24:06. > :24:12.something to do with a lucrative movie franchise which started in a

:24:12. > :24:15.galaxy far, far away. Star Wars creator George Lucas has sold his

:24:15. > :24:23.film production company Lookers fell to the Walt Disney Company in

:24:23. > :24:28.a deal worth �2.5 billion -- Lucasfilm. Is nothing sacred? Some

:24:28. > :24:35.things cannot be bought so cheaply. Let me assure you you will never

:24:35. > :24:40.see this. Stormtroopers! I have one thing to say to Mr Disney, they are

:24:40. > :24:46.not the mugs you are looking for because they are not for sale at

:24:46. > :24:50.any price. But if the force is with you, dear viewer, one of these fine

:24:50. > :24:55.interstellar receptacles can be beamed to you at no cost. All you

:24:55. > :25:01.have to do is enter our guest the Year competition. Are we will

:25:01. > :25:11.remind you how to enter in a minute. Let's do a bit of our own time

:25:11. > :25:24.

:25:24. > :25:34.travelling. See if you can remember Respect, tolerance, the family, try

:25:34. > :25:52.

:25:52. > :26:02.If you are handing on the torch, to give somebody us the opportunity,

:26:02. > :26:24.

:26:24. > :26:29.make sure the torches burning To be in with a chance of winning

:26:29. > :26:34.an intergalactic Daily Politics mug, send your answer to our special

:26:34. > :26:36.quiz e-mail address, dpquiz@bbc.co.uk and you can see

:26:36. > :26:42.the full terms and conditions on our website,

:26:42. > :26:47.bbc.co.uk/dailypolitics. Now it is coming up to midday here. Let's

:26:47. > :26:52.take a look at Big Ben. That can only mean one thing, Prime

:26:52. > :26:56.Minister's Questions is on its way. Nick Robinson is already here.

:26:56. > :27:00.Welcome. Tell us about this European vote, there is a big row

:27:00. > :27:05.building up in the Commons today. Those who remember their history

:27:05. > :27:09.will remember in the 1990s, the Tory party pretty much fun apart on

:27:09. > :27:13.the issue of Europe and the Labour Party helped them, even though they

:27:13. > :27:19.were led by an avid pro-European, John Smith. I think the leadership

:27:19. > :27:23.of the Labour Party are inspired by Smith's example, urged by the

:27:23. > :27:27.Guardian editorial today and others, don't fait with the Euro-sceptics

:27:27. > :27:32.and the Tory rebels. The Labour leadership is sane, forget that.

:27:32. > :27:36.Nobody remembered in 1997 that the Labour Party were playing with the

:27:36. > :27:41.Euro-sceptics. They remember the chaos in the Tory ranks. What the

:27:41. > :27:44.Labour Party want today is to try and alive with the Tory rebels and

:27:44. > :27:49.defeat the government on the issue of the EU budget. A what is it they

:27:49. > :27:53.want, freeze on the budget already cut? They want a real-terms cut.

:27:53. > :27:59.The government have talked of the policy of having a real-terms

:27:59. > :28:03.freeze, in other words, goes up with the rate of inflation, but the

:28:04. > :28:07.rebels and Labour Party are saying that is not good enough. It is an

:28:07. > :28:11.argument between you room realism and fundamentalism. The government

:28:11. > :28:15.are saying, of course we would like to cut the budget but we will never

:28:15. > :28:21.get it. We might be able to build an alliance in terms of a real-

:28:21. > :28:24.terms freeze. The rebels are saying, forget that, we want it cut. There

:28:24. > :28:28.are a mix of motives. One is to give the Government a bloody nose

:28:28. > :28:32.and the other is a cost free advertisement that Labour does not

:28:32. > :28:36.want to spend your money. If Labour vote with the rebels, could the

:28:37. > :28:43.government lose? They could if there are enough of them. Into

:28:43. > :28:47.simple terms, government majority of 68, the key is he turns up? Who

:28:47. > :28:51.is in the House of Commons on the relevant day? The second key thing

:28:51. > :28:56.is devoted against the government if you are a Tory or do you

:28:56. > :29:05.abstain? If I was the Tory whips I would say do not put a smile on the

:29:05. > :29:11.face of Mr Bowles and Mr Benn abound tonight. -- Mr balsa and Mr

:29:11. > :29:16.Miliband. Isn't there something you could do like catch-up on eight DVD

:29:16. > :29:21.box set. There are enough rebels on the issue of Europe. All the

:29:21. > :29:24.opposition -- if all the opposition parties were here and if all the

:29:24. > :29:29.rebels vote against the government, the government can be defeated. It

:29:29. > :29:35.does not mean they will be. Labour were responsible for the last time

:29:35. > :29:43.the EU budget was fixed and agreed to a doubling of the contribution,

:29:43. > :29:47.now you are calling for a reduction in the Budget, how does that work?

:29:47. > :29:51.Circumstances have changed. We know that we have got austerity right

:29:51. > :29:55.across Europe. We have governments right across Europe asking people

:29:55. > :29:59.to take tough decisions and tighten their belts and we think it is

:29:59. > :30:08.appropriate that in these changing circumstances, our government

:30:08. > :30:13.should go to Europe. It is smart fiscal policy. If the rest of

:30:13. > :30:18.Europe insists on going ahead with an increase and Mr Cameron wield

:30:18. > :30:22.the veto, will Labour support it? It is a shame we have got to the

:30:22. > :30:28.stage when David Cameron is so isolated in Europe. The Swedes are

:30:28. > :30:35.taking an even tougher line. I have just read what the European

:30:35. > :30:40.Minister has said. They want a bigger cut. So do the Dutch. He is

:30:40. > :30:45.not isolated. That is not the question I asked. If he is forced

:30:45. > :30:49.to stop a real-terms increase going through, we used support him

:30:49. > :30:54.wielding the veto? We will look at that at the time when we see what

:30:54. > :31:00.comes out of the negotiations. you calling for a cut? We are

:31:00. > :31:07.calling for a real-terms cut. there is a real terms increase,

:31:07. > :31:13.which is what the majority want, and Mr Cameron says no, I will veto

:31:13. > :31:18.it, surely biologic if you are calling for a real-terms cut, you

:31:18. > :31:24.should support the veto. Let's see what happens when he comes back to

:31:24. > :31:34.Europe. Can I say, very straight forward. We will be arguing tonight

:31:34. > :31:44.

:31:44. > :31:52.for a real terms... I understand Want to pay tribute to those who

:31:52. > :31:56.have lost their lives a deep debt of gratitude. Their dedication,

:31:56. > :31:59.professionalism one never be forgotten by our nation. And our

:31:59. > :32:03.condolences are with their family, friends and colleagues.

:32:03. > :32:07.Our had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others and in

:32:07. > :32:12.additional duties in this house I will have further meetings later in

:32:12. > :32:17.the day. I am sure the house will want to associate itself with the

:32:17. > :32:21.remarks from the Prime Minister of our brave service personnel. Will

:32:21. > :32:27.the Prime Minister confirm if he cannot get a good deal for Britain

:32:27. > :32:37.in the EU budget negotiations, he will use the veto? And reject any

:32:37. > :32:40.

:32:40. > :32:44.advice on this matter from those who gave our rebate away? I can

:32:44. > :32:48.absolutely give him that assurance. This Government is taking the

:32:48. > :32:54.toughest line in these budget Nick positions of any Government since

:32:54. > :32:59.we joined the European Union. At best we would like it cuts, at

:32:59. > :33:03.worst, frozen. I am prepared to use the veto if the do not get a deal

:33:03. > :33:07.that is good for Britain. It is within our interest to get a deal

:33:07. > :33:12.because a seven-year freeze would keep bills down compared to annual

:33:12. > :33:17.budgets. Labour's position is a one of opportunism. They gave away half

:33:17. > :33:21.the rebate, sent the Budget through the roof, now they want to posture

:33:22. > :33:29.rather than get a good deal for Britain. We can see right through

:33:29. > :33:36.it. Mr Ed Miliband. Can I stop by joining the Prime Minister are

:33:36. > :33:41.paying tribute to corporal David Hope cannot and corporal Channing

:33:42. > :33:45.day of the Royal Medical Corps. It is a reminder of the danger troops

:33:45. > :33:49.based on a daily basis on our behalf. They both showed the utmost

:33:49. > :33:55.courage and bravery and our condolences go to their family and

:33:55. > :34:00.friends. The Prime Minister has an opportunity to get a mandate from

:34:00. > :34:06.this house for a real-terms reduction in the EU budget which he

:34:07. > :34:13.says he wants over the next seven years. He could take to the talks

:34:13. > :34:19.in Europe. Why is he resisting that opportunity? I think the whole

:34:19. > :34:23.country will see through what is right opportunities and. People

:34:23. > :34:30.have not forgot the fact they gave away half our rebate in one ago as

:34:30. > :34:34.the Asian. They agreed a massive increase on the EU budget under

:34:34. > :34:39.their Government. And they have not even put down their own resolution

:34:39. > :34:45.on this issue. The nation will absolutely see straight through it.

:34:45. > :34:50.He is playing politics, he is not serving the country. Ed Miliband.

:34:50. > :34:54.When it comes to consistency, he seems to have forgotten what he

:34:54. > :35:00.said as leader of the opposition just four months before the last

:35:00. > :35:04.General Election. This is what he said. I would have thought they

:35:04. > :35:11.would be interested what the Prime Minister said when he was leader of

:35:11. > :35:15.the opposition. "at a time when budgets are being cut in the UK,

:35:15. > :35:23.does the Prime Minister agree in reviewing the EU budget, the main

:35:23. > :35:28.purpose should be to push for a real-terms cut". That is what he

:35:28. > :35:33.said in opposition. When it comes to opportunism, this Prime Minister

:35:33. > :35:40.is a gold medallist. At a time when he is cutting it the education

:35:40. > :35:45.budget by 11%, the transport budget by 15% and the police budget by 20%,

:35:45. > :35:50.how can he be giving up on a cut in the EU budget before the talks have

:35:50. > :35:57.begun? We have to make cuts in budgets because we are dealing with

:35:57. > :36:01.a record debt and deficit. If he wants to talk about consistency,

:36:01. > :36:07.perhaps he can explain why his own members of the European Parliament

:36:07. > :36:10.voted against a budget freeze we achieved last year? Perhaps he can

:36:10. > :36:15.explain why the Socialist group in the European Parliament he is such

:36:15. > :36:21.a proud member of, are calling, not for an increase in the Budget, not

:36:21. > :36:26.for a freeze in the Budget, but for a 200 billion euros increase in the

:36:26. > :36:36.Budget. And they want to get rid of the rest of the British rebate. Is

:36:36. > :36:36.

:36:36. > :36:41.that his policy? Ed Miliband. good to see the Crimson tide...

:36:41. > :36:47.Order, order. Government backbenchers, including ministers,

:36:47. > :36:53.are preaching majority. They have got to tackle their behavioural

:36:53. > :36:57.problems before it is too late. Ed Miliband. He is getting very angry,

:36:57. > :37:03.maybe that is because he is worried about losing the vote this

:37:03. > :37:07.afternoon. MEPs voted the same as his on the motion before the

:37:07. > :37:11.European Parliament 10 days ago. The reality is commonly cannot

:37:11. > :37:16.convince anyone on Europe. Last year he left the December

:37:16. > :37:21.negotiations with a veto and an agreement a went ahead anyway. He

:37:21. > :37:23.had thrown in the towel before these talks had begun. He cannot

:37:23. > :37:29.convince European leaders comedy cannot convince his own

:37:29. > :37:36.backbenchers. He is weak abroad, he is weak at home, it is John Major

:37:36. > :37:41.all over again. His position is completely incredible. He says he

:37:41. > :37:47.wants a cut in the EU budget, but he does not sanction a veto. We

:37:47. > :37:52.have made it clear we will use the veto, as we have used it before. I

:37:52. > :37:58.will ask him, will you use the veto? Order. I won't be using the

:37:58. > :38:08.veto. I will ask the Prime Minister to respect Parliamentary procedure

:38:08. > :38:12.in these matters. The south-east region is often regarded as the

:38:12. > :38:16.engine driver of the British economy. But the Solent region

:38:16. > :38:21.faces challenges, particularly with the announcement of job losses at

:38:21. > :38:26.Ford last week. Will he agree with me, the case for a city Deal for

:38:26. > :38:30.Southampton and Portsmouth is particularly compelling? I do think

:38:30. > :38:35.it is particularly compelling, we make sure Southampton has a City

:38:35. > :38:41.dealer. I understand they are on the list. The news from Ford was

:38:41. > :38:45.disappointing. It was a blackspot in an otherwise strong performance

:38:45. > :38:52.by the British automotive industry. We will be working with Southampton

:38:52. > :38:59.City Council to help everybody find jobs. May I ask a straightforward

:38:59. > :39:01.question that should command a straightforward answer? In the

:39:01. > :39:06.forthcoming police and crime Commissioner elections, it is

:39:06. > :39:11.predicted the turnout will be as low as 20%. Does the Prime Minister

:39:11. > :39:15.think it gives them Democratic legitimacy? I want the turn out to

:39:15. > :39:20.be as high as possible, but I recognise in new elections for a

:39:20. > :39:24.new post, it is a challenge. It is a challenge when you have dedicated

:39:24. > :39:31.Labour MPs resigning from his house to stand as police and crime

:39:31. > :39:41.commissioners. One thing the commissioner will be able to make

:39:41. > :39:44.

:39:44. > :39:48.is that since crime is down by 20%. Lincolnshire has benefited from

:39:48. > :39:53.announcements that will boost the local economy. A Kimberley Clark

:39:53. > :39:58.announced the closure of their factory in Barton-upon-Humber in my

:39:58. > :40:01.constituency with a loss of up to 500 jobs. Can he assure me

:40:01. > :40:06.everything possible will be done by the Government to attract a new

:40:06. > :40:11.business to the area? I can give him that assurance. It is sad news

:40:11. > :40:15.for the workers at Barton-upon- Humber. The local council is

:40:15. > :40:21.working closely with Jobcentre Plus and the company to establish a

:40:21. > :40:25.local task force and the Government will support employees and try and

:40:25. > :40:28.find alternative employment. Following a report in the

:40:28. > :40:34.Hillsborough disaster and the phone hacking scandal, self regulation of

:40:34. > :40:39.the press, by the press is no longer acceptable to the public.

:40:39. > :40:42.More than three-quarters responding to recent polls back an end to

:40:42. > :40:50.media self-regulation. Prime Minister, your ministers have been

:40:51. > :40:57.briefing against Lord leathers and. Whose side are you on? Members must

:40:57. > :41:01.adhere to the proper procedures of this House. I think we should wait

:41:01. > :41:07.for the report to come out. A lot of work has been done. I want to

:41:07. > :41:10.see a robust regulatory system. What happens most of all, as I said

:41:10. > :41:15.in a house last week, is to make sure it newspapers get things wrong,

:41:15. > :41:22.they can be fined, journalists can be investigated, and there are

:41:22. > :41:29.prominent apologies. We know what a regulatory system should look like,

:41:29. > :41:33.we don't have one now but we need one for the future. I would like to

:41:33. > :41:39.echo the Prime Minister's tribute to our armed forces and fallen

:41:39. > :41:43.comrades. We owe their families and loved ones are a huge debt of

:41:43. > :41:46.gratitude. Last week we saw the sentencing of former staff of

:41:46. > :41:51.Winterbourne View Hospital who were found guilty of ill-treatment and

:41:51. > :41:56.neglect. I had hoped this would bring closure and a sense of

:41:56. > :42:00.justice to the victims and their families. But we have learnt

:42:00. > :42:04.patience from Winterbourne View have been -- may have been subject

:42:04. > :42:13.to neglect and ill-treatment elsewhere. Does the Member for

:42:13. > :42:18.Sutton and Cheam think they should be subject to a corporate

:42:18. > :42:21.prosecution? I pay tribute to what he said it on armed forces. On the

:42:21. > :42:25.issue of Winterbourne View, anyone who saw those pictures about how

:42:25. > :42:31.very vulnerable people were being treated, would be absolutely

:42:31. > :42:35.shocked. And just like me, they would want to make sure the law

:42:35. > :42:38.will go exactly where the evidence leads. But there needs to be

:42:38. > :42:43.further prosecution, then there should be. It was shocking what

:42:43. > :42:48.happened and we should judge for our society on a vulnerable and

:42:49. > :42:53.needy people and what happened was an acceptable. Ed Miliband. It is

:42:53. > :42:59.welcome the British economy is in a long as did Paul -- double dip

:42:59. > :43:05.recession since the war. And nor Heseltine said today "the message

:43:05. > :43:10.idea is the UK does not have a strategy for growth and job

:43:10. > :43:13.creation". Who does the Prime Minister blamed for that? What

:43:13. > :43:18.Michael Heseltine said is the coalition is fundamentally on the

:43:18. > :43:23.right track. He said, I praise its work for the industrial strategy

:43:23. > :43:28.plans, pioneering city devolution and the revelations in education

:43:28. > :43:33.and tackling unemployment. That is what Michael Heseltine said. We can

:43:33. > :43:40.keep trading quotes, but I think he is making a bigger.. It is an

:43:40. > :43:45.excellent report. What he is saying is over decades in our economy, it

:43:45. > :43:47.became too centralised, and regions and nations fell behind,

:43:47. > :43:51.manufacturing half as a share of national income during the last

:43:51. > :43:55.Government. And during the boom years, in the West Midlands there

:43:55. > :44:01.were no net a new private sector jobs. He is dealing with the big

:44:01. > :44:06.issues. What a pity or he can do is stand up and read out a quote.

:44:06. > :44:10.says Lord Heseltine's report says they are on the right track.

:44:10. > :44:14.Goodness knows what it would have said if he thought they were on the

:44:14. > :44:19.wrong track. He's said there is no strategy for jobs and growth,

:44:19. > :44:25.deregulation, his chosen approach is not the answer. Let me turn to a

:44:25. > :44:30.specific area of the report. Recommendations 61. He says, "the

:44:30. > :44:38.Government needs to set out a definitive and unambiguous energy

:44:38. > :44:42.policy." This is an appropriate day to be considering this

:44:42. > :44:46.recommendation on energy. It is good to see the business secretary

:44:46. > :44:51.on the bench. I'm sorry the growth Committee he is on his so one

:44:51. > :45:01.memorable, he cannot remember it. This is an appropriate date to

:45:01. > :45:02.

:45:02. > :45:07.consider these recommendations will I am enjoying this, Mr Speaker. His

:45:07. > :45:13.energy secretary says he is against wind farms and enough is enough.

:45:13. > :45:18.Whilst his... The order. Let me say to the Government backbenches. It

:45:19. > :45:24.is straightforward. They either calm down or the session it will be

:45:24. > :45:27.extended, at whoever inconvenience that involved. It is incredibly

:45:27. > :45:31.straightforward. His energy minister says he is against wind

:45:31. > :45:37.farms and enough is enough while his energy secretary says he wants

:45:37. > :45:43.them. Who speaks for the Government, the Energy Secretary or the energy

:45:43. > :45:47.minister? Today the jokes has been bad and the substance is bad also.

:45:47. > :45:53.I tell you why it is a good day to talk about energy policy, because

:45:53. > :45:57.today Hitachi are investing �20 billion in our nuclear industry.

:45:57. > :46:00.Today is a good day to talk about energy because there is more

:46:00. > :46:04.investment in renewable energy under three years of this

:46:04. > :46:10.Government's ban under 13 years of their Government. It is a good day

:46:10. > :46:14.to talk about energy policy because we have got a Green Investment Bank

:46:14. > :46:18.up and running. There has been no change towards renewable energy. We

:46:18. > :46:23.have a big pipeline of onshore and offshore wind projects coming

:46:23. > :46:27.through. We are committed to those. All parties will have to have a

:46:27. > :46:37.debate in his house and outside this House about what happens once

:46:37. > :46:47.

:46:47. > :46:53.the targets are met. And he ought It is very simple for the Prime

:46:53. > :47:02.Minister will stop you have one minister who says he is totally

:47:02. > :47:06.against wind farms and he has won a minister who is totally gunk hoe

:47:06. > :47:12.for wind farms. He has a wind turbine on his house, I thought he

:47:12. > :47:17.would be in favour. Lord Heseltine says in his report there are people

:47:17. > :47:21.resistant to his ideas. We know who they are, the Chancellor and the

:47:21. > :47:26.Prime Minister. The evidence over the last two years is de Regulation,

:47:26. > :47:31.sink or swim. His answer is not the answer. Lot Heseltine is right and

:47:31. > :47:41.they are wrong. I have got one thing to say, not you, Mr Speaker

:47:41. > :47:47.

:47:47. > :47:52.but he, he is no Michael Heseltine. Order! Order! I want to hear Mr

:47:52. > :47:59.Swales and I feel sure the people of red-carded. Thank you, Mr

:47:59. > :48:05.Speaker. The Russians want to award a prestigious medal to Arctic

:48:05. > :48:11.convoy veterans. The governments of Australia, Canada, the USA and

:48:11. > :48:17.Canada have agreed, the UK government have refused. Will the

:48:17. > :48:26.Prime Minister get this decision reversed so my constituent get the

:48:26. > :48:31.recognition that they reserve -- deserve. I have every understanding

:48:31. > :48:35.which is why we have asked Sir John Holmes to conduct this review into

:48:35. > :48:45.medals and important cases of which the Arctic convoy is probably the

:48:45. > :48:50.

:48:50. > :48:54.most pressing. He is getting on The Foreign Secretary said

:48:55. > :49:03.yesterday that the rules of this House require that ministers answer

:49:03. > :49:07.questions. Sir, There is a stash of embarrassing emails, isn't there?

:49:07. > :49:13.Adam Smith has to publish every single one of his emails and ended

:49:13. > :49:17.up resigning. Why won't the Prime Minister publishes emails? Can he

:49:17. > :49:20.really be a fit and proper person to judge on the future of press

:49:20. > :49:24.regulation if he will not come clean with the British public?

:49:24. > :49:29.There is another rule of this house which is if you insult someone in

:49:29. > :49:33.this house you do an apology. I have to say, I am still waiting.

:49:33. > :49:41.The fact is, it is this government which set up the Leveson Inquiry

:49:41. > :49:47.and I gave all the information that Leveson asked to the inquiry.

:49:47. > :49:52.Owl and the pussycat is a coffee- shop in Larne in my constituency.

:49:52. > :49:56.They have just had their business rates hyped-up by 700 % and the

:49:56. > :50:04.council is coming up with the money -- coming for the money even though

:50:04. > :50:06.they have not yet heard the appeal. This is not unique to Wales, can

:50:07. > :50:11.the Prime Minister come to the rescue? I have every sympathy with

:50:11. > :50:14.the business he mentions. Business rates are a devolved issue. This is

:50:14. > :50:21.something which needs to be taken up with the Welsh Assembly

:50:21. > :50:28.Government. In England we have halved rate relief -- doubled rate

:50:28. > :50:33.relief to help small businesses. We have given councils new powers to

:50:33. > :50:41.levy discounts. I think that is the right approach to England and he

:50:41. > :50:45.will want to take their case to Wales. In 2007, the Prime Minister

:50:45. > :50:51.identified Lewisham Hospital as one of 29 hospitals he would be

:50:51. > :50:56.prepared to get into a bare knuckle fight over. On Monday, it emerged

:50:56. > :51:01.that Lewisham's a Andy and maternity services could end up

:51:02. > :51:06.paying the price for financial failures elsewhere in the NHS --

:51:06. > :51:09.accident and emergency. Which side of this bare knuckle fight is he

:51:09. > :51:15.on? The fight we are on is increasing the resources going into

:51:15. > :51:21.the NHS. We have extra money is going into Lewisham and she is on

:51:21. > :51:24.this side of cutting money into the NHS. What we have done is set out

:51:24. > :51:29.that there will be no changes to NHS confederation's unless they

:51:29. > :51:33.have the support of local GPs and unless they have strong public and

:51:33. > :51:37.patient engagement, unless they are backed by sound clinical evidence

:51:37. > :51:42.and they are backed by patient choice. Those sort of trustees

:51:42. > :51:45.whenever there under the last government. They are there now.

:51:45. > :51:49.light of last it's positive growth figures, does the Prime Minister

:51:49. > :51:53.agree with me that policies requiring yet more spending, more

:51:53. > :52:00.borrowing and more debt halve the precise opposite of what our

:52:00. > :52:03.country needs. My honourable friend is entirely right. The news last it

:52:03. > :52:07.was welcome that the economy is growing, unemployment is coming

:52:07. > :52:10.down, inflation is coming down, the rate of small business creation is

:52:10. > :52:14.going up, there are a million more people employed in the private

:52:14. > :52:19.sector that there were two years ago and the one absolute certainty

:52:19. > :52:22.is the worst approach and Michael Heseltine confirms this, would be

:52:22. > :52:26.to see more spending, more borrowing and more debt because

:52:26. > :52:36.that is what got us into the mess in the first place. The party

:52:36. > :52:39.opposite have only one growth plan and that is to grow the deficit.

:52:39. > :52:46.condolences -- condolences on the death of my constituent, Corporal

:52:46. > :52:52.Channing day. She always wanted to join the armed services. She wanted

:52:52. > :53:02.to save lives. Imagined how it felt for the injured soldier to see her

:53:02. > :53:07.going to help. She was soon return to the family who love their dearly

:53:07. > :53:11.and the community who are very proud. The community of Northern

:53:11. > :53:16.Ireland salute her courage, bravery and heroism. Would you agree with

:53:16. > :53:21.me that army medics are often the unsung heroes of conflict and will

:53:21. > :53:23.he agree to meet with me and my colleagues to discuss the

:53:23. > :53:29.implementation of the military covenant in Northern Ireland?

:53:29. > :53:34.of all, I would be very happy to meet him and his colleagues to talk

:53:34. > :53:37.about it. I have spoken to the First Minister and deputy First

:53:37. > :53:43.Minister in Northern Ireland. I know there are issues about

:53:43. > :53:50.implementing the covenant but I would be happy to have that meeting.

:53:50. > :54:00.He spoke very movingly about Corporal Channing Day. They do a

:54:00. > :54:01.

:54:01. > :54:11.tremendous job. It has been a huge privilege for me to meet the medics

:54:11. > :54:12.

:54:12. > :54:19.in Afghanistan. British forces are receiving the best care. Question

:54:19. > :54:23.number 8. Kettering hospital will retain its accident and emergency

:54:23. > :54:29.and maternity services. Any suggestion otherwise is

:54:29. > :54:33.scaremongering of the worst kind. Kettering has the 6th highest

:54:33. > :54:37.household growth rate in the whole country and accident and emergency

:54:37. > :54:41.missions are up 10 % year on year. Given that Kettering General

:54:41. > :54:45.Hospital has been at the very heart of the local community for well

:54:45. > :54:49.over 100 years, but local people deserve a clear assurance that our

:54:49. > :54:54.much loved and badly needed local hospital has a bright future ahead

:54:54. > :54:58.of it? I gave my honourable friend the strongest possible assurance

:54:59. > :55:02.and the point I have made, as I have made it to the honourable lady

:55:03. > :55:06.opposite, is there cannot be any changes and as there is full public

:55:06. > :55:11.consultation, and as there is the support of local GPs and strong

:55:11. > :55:15.public and patient engagement. In the case of Kettering, that does

:55:15. > :55:22.not on the agenda. Any suggestion by the opposition is scaremongering

:55:22. > :55:26.of the worst kind and I can see they are at it again. It has been

:55:26. > :55:33.emphasised again and again on all sides of the house, on the

:55:33. > :55:37.importance of skills to promote economic growth. The why did the

:55:37. > :55:42.number of apprenticeships start to fall last year? The number of

:55:42. > :55:46.apprenticeships under this government are about 900,000. It

:55:46. > :55:51.has hugely increased. government recently announced plans

:55:51. > :55:56.to extend the freeze on council tax for a third year. Unfortunately,

:55:56. > :56:04.the Labour-run city of York council increased council tax by 2.9 % at

:56:04. > :56:09.has moved with remarkable speed to confirm a 2% increase next to you.

:56:09. > :56:16.-- next year. Can Mike right honourable friend agree that the

:56:16. > :56:20.city of York council should look again? The government has made

:56:20. > :56:23.money available so councils can freeze their council tax fought the

:56:23. > :56:27.third year in a red. This demonstrates we are wrong side of

:56:27. > :56:30.people who work hard and want to get on and struggle to pay the

:56:31. > :56:38.bills. All councils should look at the money available and recognise

:56:38. > :56:42.that a council tax freeze is in the best interest of all our citizens.

:56:42. > :56:45.When did the Prime Minister become aware of the plans to close fought

:56:46. > :56:49.at Southampton and Dagenham and was the where of those plans went his

:56:49. > :56:54.government awarded a large sum of money from the regional growth fund

:56:54. > :56:58.to that company just a few days earlier? Obviously, these issues

:56:58. > :57:02.were discussed and we work closely with all the automotive companies

:57:02. > :57:07.in the United Kingdom. The news from most of them, from Nissan,

:57:07. > :57:11.Toyota, Jaguar Land Rover has been extremely positive. What happened

:57:11. > :57:15.at Ford in Southampton is very regrettable but we must do

:57:15. > :57:18.everything we can to help those people into work.

:57:18. > :57:23.I am delighted the economy is finally growing and green growth is

:57:23. > :57:28.a key part of this. He is the Prime Minister still committed to this

:57:28. > :57:31.being the greenest government ever, particularly when it comes to his

:57:31. > :57:35.policies on renewable energy? under this government that we have

:57:35. > :57:38.seen more investment on green energy in three years than we had

:57:38. > :57:44.13 from the party opposite. The Green Investment Bank that we

:57:44. > :57:47.promised, that is up and running. The carbon plans we spoke about

:57:47. > :57:55.foreign players. This is a Green government and it is sticking to

:57:55. > :58:01.its promises. -- the plans are in place. The number of people waiting

:58:01. > :58:07.more than four hours in accident and emergency units has doubled.

:58:07. > :58:13.There are plans to close Central Middlesex Hospital, Ealing Hospital,

:58:13. > :58:17.Lewisham and a suspect Kettering hospital as well, if constituents

:58:17. > :58:21.had to end up in casualty they would have to wait longer for

:58:21. > :58:25.accident and emergency services. have to say, I could not be any

:58:25. > :58:29.clearer about the future of Kettering hospital and for him to

:58:29. > :58:34.say that is scaremongering of the worst kind. Let me tally him what

:58:34. > :58:39.is happening at the hospitals which serve his constituents. In May 2010

:58:39. > :58:42.there were 52 patients waiting longer than 12 months. How many are

:58:42. > :58:46.there now? None under this government will start that is what

:58:46. > :58:56.is actually happening. We are putting the money into the NHS and

:58:56. > :58:57.

:58:57. > :59:02.Further to the result on 18th October, on the contentious

:59:02. > :59:05.decision at the Royal Regiment of the Royal Fusiliers, it would the

:59:05. > :59:09.Prime Minister meet with me and other interested members from

:59:09. > :59:14.across the House to discuss this issue? I am always happy to talk to

:59:14. > :59:18.colleagues about this issue. I know the Ministry of Defence and

:59:18. > :59:26.Secretary of State is. He knows we have to make difficult decisions to

:59:26. > :59:29.be done place about the future structure of the army. Clearly, we

:59:29. > :59:33.have a to make some difficult decisions about regiments and

:59:33. > :59:38.battalions and in that, we were guided by trying to save as many

:59:38. > :59:43.regiments and cap badges as possible. The Defence Secretary

:59:43. > :59:45.will continue going on listening to recommendations.

:59:45. > :59:51.Will the Prime Minister confirm that the changes to child benefit

:59:51. > :00:00.due to be introduced in January this year, next year, but the cost

:00:00. > :00:04.of that, the overall cost is very much over �100 million? The changes

:00:04. > :00:11.that we are making to child benefit, where we are taking child benefit

:00:11. > :00:14.away altogether from people earning over �60,000, that will save around

:00:14. > :00:18.�2 billion. It is necessary to take tough decisions in order to deal

:00:18. > :00:24.with the massive deficit, bigger than Greece, bigger than Spain,

:00:24. > :00:28.that his party left us. I find it completely inexplicable why the

:00:28. > :00:32.party opposite, that say they want those with the broadest backs to

:00:32. > :00:39.share some of the burden, oppose the idea of taking child benefit

:00:39. > :00:42.away from people over 60, 70, 80, 90,000. I do not see why the front

:00:42. > :00:50.bench there should go on collecting their child benefit when we have to

:00:50. > :01:00.make such difficult decisions. Will my right honourable friend

:01:00. > :01:01.

:01:01. > :01:06.joined me in congratulating might - - accompany my constituency for

:01:06. > :01:14.their Queen's Award. Does he agree this is the finest example of

:01:14. > :01:24.business on the up? I think the honourable lady next at -- makes a

:01:24. > :01:34.good point. We need to go further and faster and that is what Michael

:01:34. > :01:43.

:01:43. > :01:53.Heseltine's excellent report is They were saying on wind power,

:01:53. > :01:58.

:01:58. > :02:03.Investment to meet the 22 Beavon -- 2020 target was on target. The main

:02:04. > :02:12.exchange between the two front benchers, it was split into three

:02:12. > :02:22.and three. Normally the leader of position does all six questions. --

:02:22. > :02:23.

:02:23. > :02:32.leader of the opposition. He was talking about the European budget.

:02:32. > :02:36.Labour wants a real-terms increase in the European budget. Mr Cameron

:02:36. > :02:41.says he will settle for a real term rise. The leader of the opposition

:02:41. > :02:46.moved on to the Michael Heseltine report. We will be speaking to him

:02:46. > :02:53.in a few moments for stomp and then brought in a wind farms, as we know

:02:53. > :02:57.the Government's party is not totally clear on that. We will get

:02:57. > :03:06.a reaction in a minute, but we want to know what you thought.

:03:06. > :03:10.Lots of Commons. Diane from Cornwall said, "pour

:03:10. > :03:14.from David Cameron who lost his temper under pressure from Ed

:03:15. > :03:20.Miliband. He did well by splitting his questions and seems to have

:03:20. > :03:26.continued for where he left off before the recess".

:03:26. > :03:29.Ian Whitely, "Ed Miliband trounced David Cameron and the EU position

:03:29. > :03:32.on the budget will stop Ed Miliband it is showing he is more interested

:03:32. > :03:39.in putting Labour before the country".

:03:39. > :03:43.Robert, "David Cameron has been dealt a blow from the opposition he

:03:44. > :03:53.finds him at odds not only in Parliament but within his own

:03:53. > :04:03.party". "I enjoyed the you are no Michael

:04:03. > :04:13.

:04:13. > :04:18.Heseltine comment from the Prime If you could see his face, he would

:04:18. > :04:22.be smiling. What do we make of this? We are seeing how the leader

:04:22. > :04:32.of the Labour Party has decided to try to repeat what happens to John

:04:32. > :04:32.

:04:32. > :04:36.manger. He brought up John manger - - John Major from the 90s. The

:04:36. > :04:42.truth is, there is no comfortable middle ground between the two. What

:04:42. > :04:46.the Tory backbenchers want, which is a wholesale rejection of what

:04:46. > :04:56.Europe stands for and a cut in their budget, is not what any

:04:56. > :05:00.

:05:00. > :05:06.diplomat or businessman will tell you is possible. What people will

:05:06. > :05:11.remember is it the Tory party is in disarray. He is equal on the issue

:05:11. > :05:17.on wind farms, trying to pull the coalition parties apart. John Smith

:05:17. > :05:22.used this tactics in the 1990s to make life awkward for John Major,

:05:22. > :05:26.in which Tony Blair was the great inheritor of. Why isn't the Prime

:05:26. > :05:32.Minister going to Brussels to talk about a real-terms cut in the EU

:05:32. > :05:40.budget? We have to deal with the budget we have got, and it is

:05:40. > :05:45.expanded. Neighbour just waved through an 8% increase. If it has

:05:46. > :05:53.expanded, cut it. We wouldn't be in this mess it you had exercised some

:05:53. > :05:58.proper control over it. He waved through an 8% increase last time.

:05:58. > :06:03.It has got out of control and we are Di -- trying to cap it. We have

:06:03. > :06:10.to do with the budget we have got. It is not a huge chunk of the

:06:10. > :06:14.overall resources of the European Union? 1%. Because we are having to

:06:14. > :06:20.inflict cuts at home on domestic spending priorities, we are saying

:06:20. > :06:24.to parts of the private sector, you have had a pay freeze. We have to

:06:24. > :06:29.persuade other governments to get the budget under control. That

:06:29. > :06:34.means there will be some cuts in some areas of the Budget. No one

:06:34. > :06:42.really believes, I suggest that if Labour was in power they would be

:06:42. > :06:46.going to Brussels arguing for a real-terms cut in the Budget, not

:06:47. > :06:52.pro-European Ed Miliband? We can only rely on the evidence we have

:06:52. > :06:56.got. Last July the voted for a real-terms cut in the Budget. Our

:06:56. > :07:02.MEPs voted for a cut in the Budget now. The Tories used to believe,

:07:02. > :07:06.when in opposition, they should be a cut in the budget in real terms.

:07:06. > :07:09.Now they are arguing for a 5% increase. You have done the same

:07:09. > :07:16.thing, called for cuts in opposition, but go along with

:07:16. > :07:23.increases in Government. The world has changed. We have austerity, you

:07:23. > :07:26.keep telling us we need to make cuts. We are going round in circles.

:07:26. > :07:32.Back to Nick Robinson for some common sense. Also, we will be

:07:32. > :07:37.going to Michael Heseltine. Europeans read the same opinion

:07:37. > :07:40.polls. Ministers get the same advice from diplomats whether they

:07:40. > :07:45.are Labour or Conservative switchers, the alliance's don't

:07:45. > :07:50.exist to deliver a cut. You don't deliver anything it you don't get

:07:50. > :07:54.people on your side. No matter how many vetoes, you have to reach an

:07:54. > :07:57.agreement or lead. These guys are doing what the Tories did before

:07:57. > :08:02.and the Tories are doing what Labour did before. And that is what

:08:02. > :08:05.happens. It will keep on happening the sometime until there is a way

:08:05. > :08:11.through. The interesting thing on the Michael Heseltine peas, there

:08:11. > :08:17.is a deeper thing I think that is interesting. But there is no doubt

:08:17. > :08:22.Michael Heseltine wrote a script that was helpful in the short term

:08:22. > :08:26.to Ed Miliband. No great strategy, indecision on airports and a mess

:08:26. > :08:32.on energy policy. But his long-term policy is an interesting challenge

:08:32. > :08:36.to all politicians. What he is saying is, Britain should be more

:08:36. > :08:40.like Germany. There should be an industrial strategy driven by the

:08:40. > :08:46.Government. They should be a strong series of business organisations.

:08:46. > :08:52.He talks about the possibility of forcing, by law, business has to

:08:52. > :08:56.join the Chamber of Commerce. And he talks about having the powerful,

:08:56. > :09:01.local organiser it -- Local Enterprise Partnerships, which

:09:01. > :09:05.would spend and allocate the money. It is a reshaping of the British

:09:05. > :09:10.state along dramatic lines. The Lib Dems used to argue to scrap the

:09:10. > :09:14.business department. The Conservatives were always split

:09:14. > :09:18.between people like Michael Heseltine and the free market. The

:09:18. > :09:24.Labour Party have been interesting decision, and there were a lot of

:09:24. > :09:29.speeches that sounded like this, but they did not do it. Now I

:09:29. > :09:36.believe the man of the moment can join us now from Birmingham. Lord

:09:36. > :09:41.Heseltine, welcome to the Daily Politics. I don't know whether you

:09:41. > :09:47.heard that, but do you want Blighty to be more like Germany, as Nick

:09:47. > :09:53.Robinson was saying? No, I want it to be every other capitalist

:09:53. > :09:58.economy. Germany is not special, it is the same. We are the ones out of

:09:58. > :10:03.step. Whether you look at America, the Asian tigers or the European

:10:03. > :10:08.competitors, they all have a system of Government which devolved power,

:10:08. > :10:15.broadly to their local city states. They all have industrial strategies

:10:15. > :10:20.designed to help their industries win. All right, I wondered, why did

:10:20. > :10:25.it take you six months to come up with all of this, since I have

:10:25. > :10:33.listened to you talking about this for the past 25 years? Andrew, you

:10:33. > :10:37.have not seen the report, I suspect which is 220 pages and a 40 page

:10:37. > :10:42.Amex would 89 recommendations, covering a wide range of Government

:10:42. > :10:47.and local authority and private sector activity. It has been quite

:10:48. > :10:52.a task. And if I say so, a privilege. But the Government to

:10:52. > :10:56.have the guts to have the Civil Service report to look at

:10:56. > :11:01.everything they are doing and produce a report without trying to

:11:01. > :11:06.influence it, it is a Government of confidence. Why do you think a

:11:06. > :11:11.free-marketeer like George Osborne asked you to do this report?

:11:11. > :11:17.Perhaps because he does not believe in the simplicity of your

:11:17. > :11:22.definitions. It was the Prime Minister who instigated it. It was

:11:22. > :11:28.George Osborne and Vince Cable to whom I have to report. They know my

:11:28. > :11:33.form, as you know my form, so it is not in the least bit surprising

:11:33. > :11:38.that what I have said is consistent with what I have said over the last

:11:38. > :11:43.30 years. They knew all that. They were interested in my ideas.

:11:43. > :11:51.Whether they carry them out, is for them. Let's look at your ideas. You

:11:51. > :11:54.talk about English local Government. Talking about it being too

:11:54. > :12:01.fragmented and you call for a major restructuring of local Government.

:12:01. > :12:05.Is the Government's up for this? You did it with Peter Walker, do

:12:05. > :12:10.you think this Government is up for another restructuring of local

:12:10. > :12:16.Government? Don't let's get carried away. I'm talking about allowing

:12:16. > :12:21.counties, if they want, to become unitary as opposed to two Tear. A

:12:21. > :12:25.few of them have done it. The legal position entitles them to do it. I

:12:25. > :12:30.am saying under the pressure of public spending constraints, as you

:12:30. > :12:35.can save between 10 and �15 million a year accounted, if they want to

:12:35. > :12:41.do it, they should. But whether conurbations of coming together,

:12:41. > :12:46.they should be encouraged to do it and they should have the choice of

:12:46. > :12:50.having a mayor to figurehead it if they want is. Those are not going

:12:50. > :12:56.to cause, in my view, certainly in the conurbations, it is already

:12:56. > :13:00.happening. On they are moving to a wider authorities in the model of

:13:00. > :13:06.Manchester. On the unit trees, I am saying if they want to do it, let

:13:06. > :13:11.them do it. Do you believe these Local Enterprise Partnerships, of

:13:11. > :13:17.which I would suspect 99% of people have never heard of and have no

:13:17. > :13:25.idea what they do. Are they really ready to take �58 billion of

:13:25. > :13:29.taxpayers' money? That is the arguments, Andrew, which all my

:13:29. > :13:36.life has led central Government to say No They are not. It has two

:13:36. > :13:41.permutations. They are doing it badly, so we will create a quango

:13:41. > :13:46.and take it away from them. Housing went that way. People say, why

:13:46. > :13:50.don't you let the chambers do this. We say they are not up to it,

:13:50. > :13:55.therefore we have another quango. If they are not doing it well

:13:55. > :14:00.enough, if they are not strong enough, help them become strong.

:14:00. > :14:05.What you have got to get hold of is the dynamism of English cities and

:14:06. > :14:10.the states around them. That is how a capitalist a economy works.

:14:10. > :14:13.criticise the Government for putting off the decision on airport

:14:13. > :14:16.expansion or runway expansion, particularly in the South East.

:14:17. > :14:22.They have kicked it into touch by giving it to someone who won't

:14:22. > :14:26.report until after the election. You need to think they should take

:14:26. > :14:33.the decision quickly, if not immediately. What you don't tell us

:14:33. > :14:38.this, where do you think it should go? Should -- where should the

:14:38. > :14:42.extra runway capacity be? I don't criticise the Government. The

:14:42. > :14:47.Government has an honourable commitment not to provide a third

:14:47. > :14:56.runway at Heathrow. They made that in the election campaign. They have

:14:56. > :15:01.said we cannot break R-word. -- R- word. They have said they will

:15:01. > :15:05.delay any further decision until after the next election. I am

:15:05. > :15:09.pointing out that compatible with that, they could speed up the

:15:09. > :15:14.process without taking a decision finally until after the next

:15:14. > :15:20.election. It is not a criticism of the Government. Can I take this

:15:20. > :15:24.whole issue? It is tedious. The moment it you repute -- produce a

:15:24. > :15:28.report like this, if the journalists can find a gap between

:15:28. > :15:33.the word I use and the word the Government used, it becomes a

:15:33. > :15:43.monumental divide and a crisis. I reject that totally. Strike the

:15:43. > :15:57.

:15:57. > :16:01.word criticism and let me ask you, I am not criticising you for not

:16:01. > :16:05.saying in your report where the runway should be, I am asking you

:16:05. > :16:09.as a man of public affairs who follows these things, what is your

:16:09. > :16:15.view about where the extra runway capacity should go in the south-

:16:15. > :16:20.east? Can I be a little humble, without the facts and figures and

:16:20. > :16:24.costs, I would hesitate to answer your question. That is why the

:16:24. > :16:30.government set up the Davies report. Exactly, let's wait to see what it

:16:30. > :16:38.says. The they will not be until 2015 witches I thought the point

:16:38. > :16:44.you're making that they should do it sooner. Even that is not true.

:16:44. > :16:48.They can provide information before 2015. It is the decision that wants

:16:48. > :16:53.to wait until after the election because they look will not break

:16:53. > :16:57.their election promise and you should be praising them for that.

:16:57. > :17:02.am not asking them to break anything, and simply asking if you

:17:02. > :17:06.took the decision and if they were not breaking their promise, what

:17:06. > :17:16.should that decision be? I know when I am beaten on this. We will

:17:16. > :17:26.move on. NEWLINE never beaten, Andrew! I am enjoying it Eva in --

:17:26. > :17:33.

:17:33. > :17:39.it even so. 89, there we go... is this another failure?

:17:39. > :17:46.actually is a criticism that you could not round it up to 90. Let me

:17:46. > :17:50.plead guilty. It has got to wade through 89 of these to decide,

:17:50. > :17:58.which won? The Prime Minister and Chancellor are watching now, which

:17:58. > :18:02.one, two or 3D say it should give priority now from the 89 to do now?

:18:02. > :18:07.I would say to the Prime Minister, that you have got the loneliest and

:18:07. > :18:12.most difficult job in the country and you are at the mercy of world

:18:12. > :18:19.events which you can only partially influence. The battering of leaders

:18:19. > :18:24.of politics today by the incessant 247 news coverage is frightening.

:18:24. > :18:28.But if it could bring himself to recognise that the growth of the

:18:28. > :18:31.economy is the overarching responsibility and the biggest

:18:31. > :18:37.opportunity and therefore, put himself at the front of the pursuit

:18:37. > :18:41.of growth, with all the type of support systems that I indicate,

:18:41. > :18:44.that would be to me, a transformation of what has happened

:18:44. > :18:47.in this country Thrupp my life. We are not talking that short-term

:18:48. > :18:52.things here. This is something I think Britain should have done

:18:52. > :18:58.historically. Michael Heseltine, we will have to leave it here. It is

:18:58. > :19:04.good to see back in the limelight. It is like the old days again and

:19:05. > :19:08.you are enjoying it. And always with you. It is symbolic that he

:19:08. > :19:15.unveiled the report in Birmingham and not London, I think that was

:19:15. > :19:20.ace and -- a sensible thing to do. When you opened the report with the

:19:20. > :19:24.picture of Jo Chamberlain, the old city creators of wealth, the people

:19:24. > :19:28.who ran cities and did not care what London thought, he wants a

:19:28. > :19:32.return to that. It was interesting. He is basically saying England

:19:32. > :19:36.needs to be more a Wales and Scotland in terms of its

:19:36. > :19:40.organisation also Wales and Scotland have unitary councils and

:19:40. > :19:44.they have governments who tend to go out and back for their economy.

:19:45. > :19:50.England has a mess of councils. Some my unit tree and someone not.

:19:50. > :19:55.I do not think that is right. In Scotland, I do not know about Wales,

:19:55. > :20:00.is all power is centralised in Edinburgh now, not London. Glasgow

:20:00. > :20:07.and Aberdeen, he wants them to have the power. Is that a criticism in

:20:07. > :20:12.Wales as well? There is always a few there is too much

:20:12. > :20:19.centralisation. Michael says there is not a scintilla of a gap between

:20:19. > :20:24.him and George Osborne, there is a gaping chasm on this. He is arguing

:20:25. > :20:28.for devolution, if you like, throughout England. He is arguing

:20:28. > :20:32.for a regional growth strategy and for him to turn round and say the

:20:32. > :20:37.Prime Minister needs to recognise that growth did to be the primary

:20:37. > :20:40.priority for this government, that is a criticism. He did not answer

:20:40. > :20:45.that but he answered my question about the two or three general

:20:45. > :20:49.things with a general statement on growth. Ultimately, he is talking

:20:50. > :20:53.about statelet intervention where this government believes the state

:20:53. > :21:00.crowds out private sector enterprise. The Easter Fallon will

:21:00. > :21:04.have the final word. -- Michael Fallon. We have to look hard at

:21:04. > :21:08.ourselves and we have done that. We will go through these

:21:08. > :21:14.recommendations. He has only just produced it. We will go through

:21:14. > :21:17.these one by one. All that stuff is something we heartily endorse. All

:21:17. > :21:22.ministers are as impatient as Michael is to get this country

:21:22. > :21:26.growing again. You have not worked out how to do it. The have worked

:21:26. > :21:32.it out. We want local growth. He does not recommend going back to

:21:32. > :21:35.the regional bureaucracies that Owen had. He wants city regions,

:21:35. > :21:39.local enterprise partnerships which we are doing. A lot of things we

:21:39. > :21:46.are doing he wants us to accelerate and we will look at the

:21:46. > :21:54.recommendations. Thank you for staying with us. Are a pleasure. A

:21:54. > :21:59.Hezza Andrew contest. Do you get time 1/2 when you stay for extra

:21:59. > :22:04.time? Over to you with your toggles and wobbles. Warbles, actually.

:22:04. > :22:11.Do you get your Waples in a twist when it comes to parliamentary

:22:11. > :22:16.process -- woggles. We have got just the team for the bob-a-job.

:22:16. > :22:23.The Scouts have invaded Westminster. They are taking on MPs in a quiz

:22:23. > :22:27.today. It is to mark the launch of their citizenship project. We can

:22:27. > :22:34.cross to College Green and talk to Scout leader Peter Jeffries, Scout

:22:34. > :22:38.Imogen Woodhall in the middle and MP Graham Evans who is co-chair of

:22:38. > :22:44.the All Party Parliamentary Scout group. Graham, can we tell -- can

:22:44. > :22:51.you tell us more about this? It is an opportunity for scalps to come

:22:51. > :23:01.into Westminster and test their politics with politicians -- for

:23:01. > :23:05.

:23:05. > :23:11.scalps to come in. Will your Scouts Way you're scalps get a badge?

:23:11. > :23:17.will have a good time. They will understand more about the world

:23:17. > :23:23.around them and how to engage in the political process. It does seem

:23:23. > :23:27.to tie in with what they are doing in schools at the moment, young

:23:27. > :23:32.people and citizenship, is that the idea to link it educationally?

:23:32. > :23:35.is absolutely right and it is all credit to the scouting movement.

:23:35. > :23:39.Education, in my view, with politics, has been lacking in

:23:39. > :23:44.recent years, along with the teaching of history. I think

:23:44. > :23:47.politics, history and citizenship go together. You have just had

:23:47. > :23:53.Michael Heseltine and he was a minister in the 1970s, in the Ted

:23:53. > :23:55.Heath government. How many people actually know that? It is about the

:23:56. > :24:01.general public engaging in the vitally important subject of

:24:01. > :24:04.politics. Imogen, do you think it will work, do you think it sounds

:24:04. > :24:08.interesting? I think it sounds interesting and it will work

:24:08. > :24:12.because not many young people know about Parliament, so it is a good

:24:12. > :24:15.opportunity. What are your first impressions of being out

:24:15. > :24:22.Westminster? Maybe you have been here before, looking around

:24:22. > :24:28.Parliament? It is very big! There are a lot of them, they'll go and

:24:28. > :24:33.hide in there, don't they, Graham? Yes, we do. What is the best way,

:24:33. > :24:40.Peter, of trying to make this accessible to young people like

:24:40. > :24:43.Imogen? One of the really important things for Scouts like image and to

:24:43. > :24:48.understand is how this affects their lives. Rather than being a

:24:48. > :24:53.far away context, what is it in their local communities, how can we

:24:53. > :24:57.become more active, with our local authorities and local MPs so

:24:57. > :25:02.everyone can understand more about what people are thinking about the

:25:03. > :25:07.world around them. Taking the whole day into account, we are going to

:25:07. > :25:14.quiz Imogen and Graham. Graham, be very scared. We are going to start

:25:14. > :25:21.with you, Imogen. My first question is Leader of the Opposition? Think

:25:21. > :25:29.Wallace and Gromit. If that is a clear. Is that an unfair clue.

:25:29. > :25:35.we allowed to give hints along the side. Ed Miliband. Ed Miliband.

:25:35. > :25:41.many houses of parliament are there? Imogen, do you know? Two.

:25:41. > :25:46.well done, you can get a bonus point if you name them both.

:25:46. > :25:54.House of Lords and Commons. Well done. You have got a very deep

:25:54. > :26:04.voice, Imogen! How old do you have to be to get the vote? 16? Well,

:26:04. > :26:08.some people think so. 18. Yes! We will give you 2.5. Graham, no help

:26:08. > :26:14.for you. Who was British Prime Minister when Abraham Lincoln was

:26:14. > :26:20.the President of the United States. Pass. Yes, it is quite hard. It was

:26:20. > :26:27.Lord Palmerston. I should have known that. But you did not. What

:26:27. > :26:31.does LIBOR stand for? LIBOR is the interest rate which banks agreed

:26:31. > :26:38.between each other. It is, but do you know what it stands for word

:26:38. > :26:42.for word? No, pass. It is the London Interbank offered Rate. And

:26:42. > :26:48.which British animal linked the founder of the Society of Friends,

:26:48. > :26:55.a 60 No 5 comedy by playwright Ben Jonson and a Whig politician born

:26:55. > :26:59.in 1756. Which animal links those? Blackadder? No! You have not done

:26:59. > :27:04.very well. We did make them quite tricky. Peter, do you have the

:27:04. > :27:10.Daily Politics mug there? I have. Who wins this after those

:27:10. > :27:15.questions? I think we can fairly and squarely say Imogen. You get a

:27:15. > :27:22.Daily Politics mug. Sorry, Graham, there is nothing for you at all.

:27:22. > :27:28.The story of my life! Thank you for joining us.

:27:28. > :27:35.Black had a? When was that an animal. He was never a Prime

:27:35. > :27:41.Minister. Time to guess the year, the answer was Michael. Michael --

:27:41. > :27:51.the answer was 2000. Michael, press the red button. Who is the lucky

:27:51. > :27:54.

:27:54. > :28:02.winner? I do not know why they have What do you think about this idea

:28:02. > :28:09.of getting Scouts in and doing political engagement? One of my

:28:09. > :28:14.sons is a car and the other is a Brownie. It is a great initiative.

:28:14. > :28:17.Young people have not been voting in great numbers. Do you think they

:28:17. > :28:23.should have the vote at 16? There is an argument that that because

:28:23. > :28:31.they are not paying taxes. You were in favour of anything we are not in

:28:31. > :28:35.favour of. So stop it, you two! are going to stop the petty

:28:35. > :28:40.bickering and bring it all to an end. Thank you to all our guests

:28:41. > :28:43.who appeared today. The One o'clock News is starting over on BBC One. I