:00:43. > :00:48.Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Are the ghosts of
:00:48. > :00:56.Conservative past coming back to want David Cameron? The ayes to the
:00:56. > :01:00.right, 307. The noes to the left, 294. 53 Conservative MPs rebel on
:01:00. > :01:06.Europe. Last night they were joined by Labour to inflict a Commons
:01:06. > :01:10.defeat on the Government. They tell the Prime Minister and EU budget
:01:10. > :01:13.freeze is not enough, they want a real-terms cut. If the Prime
:01:13. > :01:20.Minister cannot get that in Brussels, will MPs reject whatever
:01:20. > :01:26.he does get? Gone With the wind? After a week of confusion, are
:01:26. > :01:35.onshore wind farms done for? And the political moustache makes a
:01:36. > :01:42.comeback for Movember. But they All of that is coming up in the
:01:42. > :01:46.next hour. Who more appropriate to join us on this All Saints Day, a
:01:46. > :01:52.political saint of his own making, the former mayor of London. But so
:01:52. > :01:56.would not melt in his mouth. Welcome back to the show. Let's
:01:56. > :02:00.start with what turned into an All Hallows' Eve fright night for the
:02:00. > :02:05.Prime Minister. Scary! He was defeated by an unholy alliance of
:02:05. > :02:10.53 of his own MPs and the Labour Party. Together, they voted for a
:02:10. > :02:14.real-terms reduction in the EU budget, rather than the real-terms
:02:14. > :02:17.freeze that the Prime Minister is after. It is a cash increase, but
:02:17. > :02:21.for inflation. That is what the Prime Minister wants. With
:02:21. > :02:25.impeccable timing, debit Prime Minister Nick Clegg has been making
:02:25. > :02:31.a speech on Europe this morning. Ever helpful, he's attacked
:02:31. > :02:36.Conservative rebels but, also, the Labour leadership. Their change of
:02:36. > :02:42.heart is dishonest. It is hypocritical. Worst of all,
:02:42. > :02:46.Labour's plan could cost the taxpayer more, not less. In pushing
:02:46. > :02:50.a completely unrealistic position on the EU budget, one that is miles
:02:50. > :02:57.away from any other country's position, Labour will have
:02:57. > :03:05.absolutely no hope of getting a budget deal agreed, driving the EU
:03:05. > :03:10.budget built up instead, over which It may have been opportunistic, it
:03:10. > :03:14.may have even been hypocritical. But it is pretty good politics by
:03:14. > :03:19.Labour? I think the world has changed. A whole generation of MPs
:03:19. > :03:22.like myself, who grew up influenced by the war, saw Europe as a real
:03:22. > :03:27.issue, the world has moved on. Nobody in France or Italy expects
:03:27. > :03:31.to be invaded by Germany or even Russia. Now people are focusing on
:03:31. > :03:37.what it costs. The EU budget makes the Ministry of Defence budget look
:03:37. > :03:42.responsible and well managed. cannot be that bad! All of those
:03:42. > :03:46.agricultural subsidies, that do not go to small farmers. It's mostly
:03:46. > :03:53.big business and half of them are American. The Cypriots are in the
:03:53. > :03:58.chair at the moment. They have a �5 billion cut proposed in common
:03:58. > :04:03.agricultural subsidies. 5 billion, in a one trillion budget. The
:04:03. > :04:07.French have thrown their toys out of the pram. It is not French
:04:07. > :04:10.farmers getting this, which is what is stupid. I think France does not
:04:10. > :04:17.publish the details of who gets what. That is because they are
:04:17. > :04:21.ashamed. We have all had those horrific tales, again and again, of
:04:21. > :04:25.terrible waste. When everything else is being cut, if we are all
:04:25. > :04:29.honest, we know that it's not going to be easy for any time and the
:04:29. > :04:33.rest of this decade. So why should the European budget be exempt from
:04:33. > :04:36.real scrutiny? It is what the British people think? I suspect it
:04:36. > :04:41.is what everybody in Europe thinks, but nobody gets a chance to put it
:04:41. > :04:47.out there. We are going to come back to this, but why do you think
:04:47. > :04:52.these things don't play as much in Germany or France, or even Italy?
:04:52. > :04:56.don't know. You have always had this strong Euro-sceptic block of
:04:56. > :05:01.opinion here. That has kept fuelling it. That really wasn't
:05:01. > :05:06.there in Europe after the war. Because they had all been invaded...
:05:06. > :05:09.For the reasons he gave? It's time they got their act together. The
:05:09. > :05:13.scrutiny you get in German politics is very good. But nobody is
:05:13. > :05:17.scrutinising his nightmare. I always thought once you got a
:05:17. > :05:20.European Parliament, what do you need to commission for? You have
:05:20. > :05:25.elected MPs, let them run the budget and be accountable. This
:05:25. > :05:29.morning, Chancellor George Osborne said that the real test in the EU
:05:29. > :05:32.budget is still to come. That's if the Prime Minister comes back from
:05:32. > :05:38.Brussels after negotiations, with something less than a real-terms
:05:38. > :05:45.reduction in the EU budget. Will the Conservative rebels join again
:05:45. > :05:49.with Labour to reject it? They were in no mood to compensate last night.
:05:49. > :05:52.This Prime Minister has been clear that the remorseless rise in
:05:52. > :05:58.spending in the EU has to stop and it will stop. If there is no cut or
:05:58. > :06:01.no real freeze, there is no deal. The framework will be deterred.
:06:02. > :06:06.goal today is to stand up for the taxpayer. I know this is not
:06:06. > :06:10.something that is only the preserve of these ventures. I know there are
:06:10. > :06:14.some members opposite who also want to rise above some of the partisan
:06:14. > :06:19.discussions today and make sure that we have a decision from the
:06:19. > :06:24.debates that we have this evening. A decision that does the best thing
:06:24. > :06:30.for the taxpayer. What an array to choose from! I'll give way to the
:06:30. > :06:35.honourable gentleman. Would not be Honourable Gentleman agree that the
:06:35. > :06:38.proposal put forward by the Government in the face of
:06:38. > :06:45.extraordinary, irrational provocation from the commission is
:06:45. > :06:49.extremely sensible and deserves the support of the whole house? I had
:06:49. > :06:52.police officers who came to my surgery. They understand that their
:06:52. > :06:55.pay is frozen. They are less happy about changes to terms and
:06:55. > :06:59.conditions, less happy about not getting their increments. What they
:06:59. > :07:02.do not understand is why other elements of the Budget, in
:07:02. > :07:05.particular the European Union, should be guaranteed inflationary
:07:05. > :07:10.increases, letter don't inflationary increases or of the
:07:10. > :07:15.way through to 2020. -- let alone inflationary increases all of the
:07:15. > :07:19.way through to 2020. I'm grateful to the Honourable Member, who I
:07:19. > :07:22.have the utmost respect for. Does he have the utmost respect for
:07:22. > :07:27.members opposite who voted time and time again to give away powers and
:07:27. > :07:31.money to the European Union, and now propose to wrap themselves in
:07:31. > :07:37.the Euro-sceptic flag and walk through the lobbies this afternoon?
:07:37. > :07:42.I think this multi- national framework, or EU budget, is insane.
:07:42. > :07:48.To ask for the European Union to ask for a 10% real increase above
:07:48. > :07:51.inflation is insulting to our constituents. In it is insulting to
:07:51. > :07:57.the people of Spain and Italy and Portugal, and Ireland, who are
:07:57. > :08:03.being told to pull in their belts. The if the Prime Minister achieves
:08:03. > :08:08.a freeze in the European Union budget, he will have done something
:08:08. > :08:12.that no other Prime Minister has managed to achieve. No, I am not
:08:12. > :08:15.going to give way. All that is happening on these benches is
:08:15. > :08:23.whenever the Prime Minister says he is going to achieve something,
:08:23. > :08:28.there are those that are somewhat self-indulgent and are seeking to
:08:28. > :08:34.set an even higher hurdle for him to jump over. It is unreasonable
:08:34. > :08:37.and unfair. If this party hopes to be in government after the next
:08:37. > :08:44.General Election, it has got to get a grip and start supporting the
:08:44. > :08:47.Prime Minister. It is no good in the European elections in 2014
:08:47. > :08:51.wrapping ourselves in the Union flag if tonight we take it off and
:08:51. > :08:55.wrap ourselves in the stars of the European Union flag. This is a
:08:55. > :09:00.moment of truth, this is a moment of decision. We can send a united
:09:00. > :09:04.message, as a parliament, as a nation, to Brussels. Let's make a
:09:04. > :09:10.difference. If we are not making a difference, we might as well go
:09:10. > :09:16.home. At that point, he went home. No, good clips from a lively
:09:16. > :09:21.Commons debate. We like it when that happens on the Daily Politics.
:09:21. > :09:27.Let's continue. We are joined by Bernard Jenkin, one of the
:09:27. > :09:31.Conservative rebels, Nadhim Zahawi, who voted with the Government, and
:09:31. > :09:35.Lib Dem MP Martin Horwood. I think we know how he voted as well. You
:09:35. > :09:39.voted for the rebels. We know, by looking across the Channel, that
:09:39. > :09:43.the best the Prime Minister is going to get is a freeze in real
:09:43. > :09:49.terms on the existing budget. Nobody else is talking about a huge
:09:49. > :09:53.cut. Why lumber him with this vote? First of all, it is advisory.
:09:53. > :10:00.understand that, not binding. Prime Minister could have easily
:10:00. > :10:04.have said, yes, I accept this amendment, I will do my best, but I
:10:04. > :10:07.am pretty powerless. That is the reality. The people saying it is
:10:07. > :10:11.frightfully irresponsible, we must not pretend we are powerless, we
:10:11. > :10:14.have become powerless. What this vote was about was a message from
:10:14. > :10:20.the British people. We don't care what your problems are. We are not
:10:20. > :10:24.happy with this relationship. That message is now getting through to
:10:24. > :10:27.Parliament. It was about a lot more than the Budget in your view?
:10:27. > :10:36.some of the, this is a seismic moment in British politics. There
:10:36. > :10:41.are only 53 of you, it is not seismic. Even the Labour vote, it
:10:41. > :10:44.is basically a pro-Europe party, they now realise they haven't got a
:10:44. > :10:48.chance of being elected unless they at least pretend to be Euro-sceptic.
:10:48. > :10:53.I think it would be madness to leave, because so much of our trade
:10:53. > :10:57.is tied up in it. But there is no reason why we cannot say there is a
:10:57. > :11:00.lot wrong here and a lot of waste. I used to be in the House of
:11:00. > :11:02.Commons, the fact I was there didn't been I stopped complaining
:11:02. > :11:08.about their waist of your government and the way you
:11:08. > :11:13.squandered so much money. -- the wastage in your government. Do you
:11:13. > :11:16.think that Labour will have to become... I understand they were
:11:16. > :11:24.not say that we should leave, but will they become more Europe
:11:24. > :11:27.sceptic? When the Tories first applied to join the Common Market,
:11:27. > :11:34.they said it was the end of thousands of years of British
:11:34. > :11:41.history. I don't think either of their main parties are four or or
:11:41. > :11:45.against, solidly. The Lib Dems are united. Labour had a real problem.
:11:45. > :11:49.Margaret Hodge and said she hated his vote, it was political
:11:49. > :11:54.opportunism. Bernard, you did not play him on your clip, a brilliant
:11:54. > :11:59.speech. The. Margaret he was making, there are these vibrations, I call
:11:59. > :12:02.them tremors. People do feel that we ought to try and make sure that
:12:02. > :12:06.we try our hardest to cut the budget. That is what they are going
:12:06. > :12:09.to try and do. When Bernard says we are helpless, I disagree. The
:12:09. > :12:12.European Commission would not be panicking and putting a press
:12:12. > :12:17.releases as to what the consequences would be if we had a
:12:17. > :12:20.freeze in the budget in real terms, if we were helpless. Do you buy the
:12:20. > :12:24.line of the rebels that bypassing this motion it is helpful to the
:12:24. > :12:31.Prime Minister, it stiffens his resolve? He now cannot come back
:12:31. > :12:35.from Brussels with anything less than a freeze? Do you buy that?
:12:35. > :12:39.voted the other way. To try to push back the reins this relentless
:12:39. > :12:42.increase in budgets, you have to build alliances. We had a alliance
:12:42. > :12:46.with Germany, France, the Netherlands and Finland. The big
:12:46. > :12:50.countries are on our side. 17 countries are net beneficiaries.
:12:50. > :12:53.They will not be voting to cut the budget. When you build that
:12:53. > :12:57.Alliance and promise that what you really want is a real-terms freeze,
:12:57. > :13:04.there is no point going back and saying, you know what, I change my
:13:04. > :13:07.mind, I wanted it more now. Who is on the side of a freeze? Germany,
:13:07. > :13:12.France and a Nicolas Sarkozy, I hope Hollande will deliver on that.
:13:12. > :13:16.The Netherlands, Finland, they have signed up. In negotiating, you have
:13:16. > :13:18.to be consistent. That is why I was supporting the Government. But the
:13:18. > :13:23.Prime Minister needs to listen to Parliament, which he will do.
:13:23. > :13:29.Parliament has spoken last night. It delivered a very clear message.
:13:29. > :13:35.The Lib Dem position, are they clearly in favour of aims real-
:13:35. > :13:39.terms freeze? By yes, at least. What we have negotiated his a
:13:39. > :13:46.position that could potentially be a cut if we can negotiate that. But
:13:46. > :13:50.it's an unrealistic barter set the Government. Mission impossible?
:13:50. > :13:54.have the Conservative Party chronically disunited over Europe.
:13:54. > :13:59.This vote last night has probably underlined our negotiating position.
:13:59. > :14:04.If you nail your mass to a completely unrealistic objective of
:14:04. > :14:10.demanding a cut, when you haven't built the alliances that the deans
:14:10. > :14:15.are how we was talking about, you will not be taken seriously. --
:14:15. > :14:17.that Nadhim Zahawi was talking about. At least Bernard and his
:14:17. > :14:23.Euro-sceptic friends have been consistent. The hypocrisy of the
:14:23. > :14:27.Labour Party last night was unbelievable. It observed about a
:14:27. > :14:33.dozen successive increases in the EU budget when they were in power.
:14:33. > :14:40.You supported them all? This was a Europe-wide budget that was
:14:40. > :14:43.negotiated. A promise to renegotiate the common agricultural
:14:43. > :14:47.policy that was never delivered! There was more money available.
:14:47. > :14:51.That is gone forever. When we are cutting benefits for ordinary
:14:51. > :14:53.people, seeing people really struggling, you have to say to
:14:53. > :15:03.everybody, don't just squeeze the British budget, we should be
:15:03. > :15:04.
:15:04. > :15:06.squeezing the European budget as well. I think that is consensus.
:15:06. > :15:09.When the Prime Minister goes to Brussels, I don't think anything is
:15:10. > :15:13.going to happen this side of Christmas because they can't get an
:15:13. > :15:18.agreement. There comes a time when the British Prime Minister, he
:15:18. > :15:23.looks and says, I can't we get this real-terms freeze. They have picked
:15:23. > :15:27.it up more. Do the Lib Dems then support him using the veto? We will
:15:27. > :15:31.support the Prime Minister getting the best deal possible for Britain
:15:31. > :15:34.out of these negotiations. Last night has damaged that. What is the
:15:34. > :15:38.answer to my question? Will you support in using the veto if he
:15:38. > :15:41.cannot deliver your policy, which is a real-terms freeze? I think
:15:41. > :15:44.it's helpful in negotiations for the other partners in the
:15:44. > :15:48.negotiations to think we might use the veto. I don't think that's
:15:48. > :15:51.particularly unhelpful. If the Prime Minister does, can he count
:15:51. > :15:56.on the support of the Lib Dems? think the Prime Minister can count
:15:56. > :16:03.on our support for negotiating the best possible deal. That's the kind
:16:03. > :16:07.of thing you don't actually reveal in advance. You are not going to
:16:07. > :16:10.come on and say you will support in getting the worst possible deal!
:16:10. > :16:20.is the Ed Balls school of diplomacy, setting out your red lines before
:16:20. > :16:27.
:16:27. > :16:33.$:/STARTFEED. Cameron will go into the meeting saying, I have got all
:16:33. > :16:39.these nutters on my back. When you look at the polls, only one in 20
:16:39. > :16:44.people regard the European Union as a vital issue. That is from 20th
:16:44. > :16:50.October 12. Only 5% mentioned the EU as an important issue facing
:16:51. > :16:55.Britain today. What do they think about tax, standards of living,
:16:55. > :17:01.benefits for disabled people? Public spending and borrowing? This
:17:01. > :17:05.is an issue that overlaps with all of those things. And what about
:17:05. > :17:13.bringing paedophiles and terrorists back to this country to face
:17:13. > :17:21.justice? We have got all sorts of agreements. You are allowing Euro-
:17:21. > :17:26.scepticism to weaken Britain's stance. I want to be on a BBC
:17:26. > :17:31.programme that does not mention the word paedophile. Is your party not
:17:31. > :17:38.in danger of going back to a civil war over Europe. You are all Euro-
:17:38. > :17:48.sceptics. You have got degrees of Euro-scepticism. Do you want TV
:17:48. > :17:54.you? No, I do not. Do you? No he does not. You had very sound people
:17:54. > :17:59.voting last night. They are sound people are in Europe. Dominic voted
:17:59. > :18:06.with the Government. The party is not split, the party wants to
:18:06. > :18:12.support the Prime Minister in cutting the European budget. There
:18:12. > :18:17.are different factions of Euro- sceptics. The Conservative Party
:18:17. > :18:27.needs to get its act together. is not like Maastricht when there
:18:27. > :18:32.was a real split. He is too young to have lived through that.
:18:32. > :18:37.showed a speech that was a bit more like the Maastricht debate. The
:18:37. > :18:44.Conservative Party is far more united about the European Union.
:18:44. > :18:50.This was about... Do you want a referendum that says in or out?
:18:50. > :18:55.would like a mandate referendum. Do the British people agree the
:18:55. > :19:03.British Government should negotiate a new deal about trade? Nick Clegg
:19:03. > :19:08.this morning, he said, he described the Prime Minister's plans to
:19:08. > :19:14.repatriate powers, which is the long-term aim of the Conservatives
:19:14. > :19:22.as a, quote, false promises wrapped in the Union Jack. Is it that no
:19:22. > :19:28.major powers should be in a packed? I do not think it is an unwise
:19:28. > :19:32.thing to do. So will it is not a false promise? There are some
:19:33. > :19:38.powers you can repatriate through agreement and negotiation.
:19:38. > :19:41.Fisheries is an example. The promise that you can repatriate
:19:41. > :19:49.whole sell large chunks of our relationship with Europe is
:19:49. > :19:54.unrealistic. We are still all on the European train. We are not
:19:54. > :19:58.going to be in the front driving, because we do not want to be in the
:19:58. > :20:01.European federation. But all the rules that exist on the single
:20:01. > :20:06.market are going to be dominated by the group at the front. Take
:20:06. > :20:10.banking union, they will decide what regulations they want. It will
:20:10. > :20:16.not take long for the commission to decide, let's make it a rule for
:20:16. > :20:20.everybody, and we will be out voted. If they are going to be a
:20:20. > :20:24.federation and have fiscal and banking union, we need a completely
:20:25. > :20:29.different kind of relationship. Otherwise we will be ruled by
:20:29. > :20:34.federal Europe and have no control. We have become so semi-detached
:20:34. > :20:38.from the rest of Europe that we are in the west of possible worlds and
:20:38. > :20:43.we lose influence. Like Norway and Switzerland you have to comply with
:20:43. > :20:49.dozens of rules. I do not agree with that. A but they do not have
:20:49. > :20:53.any influence over it. Europe and the euro-zone is going to change.
:20:53. > :20:58.Every expert says they have to change because of the problems they
:20:58. > :21:02.have. Once that happens if there is an opportunity for us to have a
:21:02. > :21:06.different settlement. The British public will then and should have
:21:06. > :21:12.the right to buy their back or not bat that new relationship.
:21:12. > :21:18.Repatriation is a longer term aim, you probably have more of that in
:21:18. > :21:23.your manifesto. If the Prime Minister comes back from Brussels
:21:23. > :21:29.with a real-terms freeze, not with a cut, but with a real-terms freeze
:21:29. > :21:33.from 2014-2020, you will be happy with that? If he came back and said,
:21:33. > :21:38.we have got the real terms freeze which is better than what we might
:21:38. > :21:42.have got, but we know we are stuffed because these arrangements
:21:42. > :21:47.are completely unfair. The EU now has the right to grab more of our
:21:47. > :21:53.money every yet whether we like it or not. What he will also have to
:21:53. > :21:59.say is that this has to change. In the long term this has to change.
:21:59. > :22:05.By you are not going to vote against a real-terms freeze?
:22:05. > :22:09.think he will be leaving the public behind them. I will ask again for
:22:09. > :22:14.the purposes of clarification, if he comes back with a real-terms
:22:14. > :22:21.freeze, you will not vote against it? I do not know, I will wait and
:22:21. > :22:25.see. I certainly will not. Labour are all over the place. Douglas
:22:25. > :22:33.Alexander was saying he does not know what he is going to do. He is
:22:33. > :22:39.waiting to see what the deal is. said he would not know whether to
:22:39. > :22:43.vote for a real-terms freeze. will be an impressive piece of
:22:43. > :22:49.negotiation given last night. If we triumph over that, that would be
:22:49. > :22:58.good. There will be no veto and no deal. Then the budget rises every
:22:58. > :23:05.year by inflation. Then they will put it off by December. Getting a
:23:05. > :23:11.real freeze is a great result. he does not get a deal, he gets
:23:11. > :23:16.what he wants, a real-terms freeze. Annual budgets may put the prices
:23:16. > :23:24.up for British consumers. That is the nonsense. They really need to
:23:24. > :23:34.have a massive change, the more you listen to this. They've voted for
:23:34. > :23:40.an even bigger budgets. The Labour MEPs voted for a huge increase.
:23:40. > :23:45.are on dodgy ground. The Socialists in the European Parliament voted
:23:45. > :23:49.for an increase. We are governed by someone we do not elect. There is a
:23:49. > :23:57.parliament, get rid of the commission. Bureaucracy is
:23:57. > :24:06.determining how we run our things. Eruption in British politics. What
:24:06. > :24:08.is the Government's policy on wind power? I ask that quite a lot. The
:24:08. > :24:13.new energy minister of state, a Conservative MP, John Hayes
:24:13. > :24:18.declared Britain had, quote, enough onshore wind farms and suggested
:24:18. > :24:24.future projects would be blocked. But he was promptly slapped down by
:24:24. > :24:30.his boss, Energy Secretary Ed Davey. He is a Lib Dem and he says the
:24:30. > :24:35.policy on wind farms has not changed. Confused? Me as well. They
:24:35. > :24:40.have been in the Commons this morning answering questions from E
:24:40. > :24:46.-- MPs seeking clarity. I asked him why he was failing to stand up to
:24:46. > :24:49.his colleagues who want to kill off the industry. I have to disappoint
:24:49. > :24:54.the Right Honourable Lady because my Conservative colleagues and I
:24:54. > :24:59.are working very closely on this matter. That was what the former
:24:59. > :25:05.energy minister. After the outburst yesterday, how closely would he say
:25:05. > :25:12.they were working together now? honourable friend suggested I used
:25:12. > :25:18.the words intimately, but I can say we are working very closely. Listen,
:25:18. > :25:24.Mr Speaker, I will face the house as you requested. He and I may
:25:24. > :25:31.occasionally disagree on issues of substance, but I have to say I
:25:31. > :25:36.really admire his style. So, any clearer? Not meet either. Joining
:25:36. > :25:42.me now is Caroline Lucas and James Delingpole, the climate change
:25:42. > :25:45.sceptic and writer, who was standing as an anti- wind farm
:25:45. > :25:50.candidate in the Corby by-election, but you have pulled out on the
:25:50. > :25:56.basis you have one. Absolutely, it was the shortest and most
:25:56. > :26:00.successful election campaign of all times. I achieved my aims. I was
:26:00. > :26:06.not in it for a tawdry place in Parliament, I wanted to rescue the
:26:06. > :26:11.British countryside from the wind menace. There are 2600 wind
:26:11. > :26:15.turbines already completed and running onshore and another 3000
:26:15. > :26:20.waiting for approval. I cannot do anything about the ones already in
:26:20. > :26:28.place, but I hope Semtex in a few years will sort out that problem.
:26:28. > :26:35.In the meantime I have achieved... Union terrorists? I have the
:26:35. > :26:39.expertise to destroy these things. In your own native land, Scotland
:26:39. > :26:44.is being ruined, the land of your forefathers is being destroyed by
:26:44. > :26:49.wind farms. I am not arguing the rights and wrongs of wind farms, I
:26:49. > :26:55.am trying to work out how you can claim you have won it there are
:26:55. > :26:59.another 3000 in the pipeline. is a remarkable turnaround in
:26:59. > :27:05.Government policy. It is confusing depending on who you listen to and
:27:05. > :27:11.is another example of the coalition being all over the place. Is there
:27:11. > :27:17.now going to be a drag on onshore wind, or will there be a very few
:27:17. > :27:21.more turbines going up? You are right, there is complete chaos in
:27:21. > :27:26.the coalition. That gives a signal to investors that Britain is not
:27:27. > :27:32.serious about investing in the economy. My worry is that the
:27:32. > :27:38.Semtex is going to be aimed at cheaper fuel bills, jobs and a boom
:27:38. > :27:43.in the economy. He is coming out with frankly unscientific so --
:27:44. > :27:50.statements. It is very entertaining, but not helpful. I am surprised you
:27:50. > :27:57.are defending wind farms. You could not get anything antique green than
:27:57. > :28:01.a wind turbine. They kill birds, they are inefficient, the increase
:28:01. > :28:05.Sirte 2. They are so unreliable and intermittent, wind up being wind,
:28:05. > :28:13.they require 100% backed up by fossil fuel power on spinning
:28:13. > :28:18.reserve. What you get his two forms of electricity being generated.
:28:18. > :28:24.That is a perfect case in point of what I am saying. It is very
:28:24. > :28:31.entertaining, but it lacks in any factual grounding. You do not need
:28:31. > :28:35.100% back up. Och energy generation needs some back-up. Third, if you
:28:35. > :28:41.have connection with the rest of Europe, you can make the most of
:28:41. > :28:47.when it is windy in other parts of Europe. That is a huge investments.
:28:47. > :28:53.It is less than a massive new fleet of nuclear power stations. Do you
:28:53. > :28:56.not care about...? Britain more than almost anywhere else is one of
:28:56. > :29:01.the best sites for wind farms because of the nature of our
:29:01. > :29:08.climate. I personally like them, they are attractive, it is cheaper
:29:08. > :29:11.to put them on land that in the seat. The simple fact is we are
:29:12. > :29:15.they get on top of our carbon emissions and bring them down, or
:29:15. > :29:22.we may not have a human civilisation by the end of this
:29:22. > :29:24.century. We have just seen this devastation in North America in an
:29:24. > :29:32.election campaign when neither candidate has met and climate
:29:32. > :29:35.change. Is it the result of climate change? About once or twice a
:29:35. > :29:42.decade there would be a catastrophic event, but now they
:29:42. > :29:46.are coming more often. We are heading for three or four. This is
:29:46. > :29:52.junk science from a few selected sites on the internet. It is
:29:52. > :29:58.dreadful. There is no serious scientists I am aware of who is a
:29:58. > :30:04.sceptic. The key thing is not how much science I know or how much you
:30:05. > :30:09.know, it is about the majority of scientific opinion. When you have
:30:09. > :30:19.got hundreds of scientists and if I put it to them what they like to
:30:19. > :30:29.
:30:29. > :30:34.listen to you, or were they like to By my arithmetic, there are about
:30:34. > :30:38.4000 turbines, currently turning in the UK and its waters. This morning,
:30:38. > :30:42.how much electricity were they generating as a percentage of the
:30:42. > :30:48.total amount. Accounted a maths well enough, but I can tell you
:30:48. > :30:54.that a modern turbine will produce enough electricity for 1000 homes.
:30:54. > :31:01.As a percentage? I reckon it is probably less than 5%. Less than 5%.
:31:01. > :31:08.But we are just beginning. Let me give the answer. It is 3%. For all
:31:08. > :31:14.of that damage. If 4000 turbines produce only 3% of our electricity
:31:14. > :31:18.this morning, then we have a target of over 30% of electricity by 2020,
:31:18. > :31:21.which is only eight years away. You are going to need a hell of a lot
:31:21. > :31:26.of turbines? Nobody is suggesting we are doing it all by wind
:31:26. > :31:30.turbines. We are using a range of renewable technologies and energy
:31:30. > :31:34.efficiency. That is the Cinderella of the debate. According to the
:31:34. > :31:42.Government's own figures, we could save 40%. Energy efficiency does
:31:42. > :31:45.not change the percentages of where the energy is coming from. On the
:31:45. > :31:53.plan, most of them getting renewables up to a third of the
:31:53. > :31:55.total electricity, most of that comes from wind power. The biggest
:31:55. > :32:05.way of coping with this is insulated your home probably.
:32:05. > :32:11.Immediately, our electricity bill was down. Yeah, that will work!
:32:11. > :32:15.Economies that are far more successful are rely on wind energy
:32:15. > :32:20.more than we are. The last time, you admitted to being a watermelon,
:32:20. > :32:27.you said, I'm proud to be a watermelon. He's plugging his book
:32:27. > :32:30.now. In a sentence, what is government policy on onshore wind?
:32:31. > :32:35.I think they had a massive U-turn and Ed Davey does not want to admit
:32:35. > :32:41.it. It is completely chaotic, I hope very much that James is a
:32:41. > :32:50.trike. If he is, it's very bad for the British economy and fuel bills.
:32:50. > :32:54.Now, it was Enoch Powell that said all political careers end in
:32:54. > :33:02.failure. I guess that included his own. What happens to the politician
:33:02. > :33:08.who finds himself or herself out of power? How do they cope when the
:33:08. > :33:11.interview requests dry up from the daily politics, they are sat
:33:11. > :33:15.watching a box-set of the David Porter exact home and ministers are
:33:15. > :33:25.not return your calls? In a moment will talk to Ken Livingstone. First,
:33:25. > :33:32.
:33:32. > :33:36.we have been finding out if there There is nothing as ex-as an ex-MP,
:33:36. > :33:40.as the saying goes. One minute you are a star turn at the Palace of
:33:40. > :33:45.Westminster. The next, you're not. So, what do MPs do when they leave
:33:45. > :33:49.the Commons and become common? If they are very lucky, they get to do
:33:49. > :33:54.the thing they really love. Keen fisherman Martin Salter stood down
:33:54. > :33:58.as an MP for Reading West in 2010 and became co-ordinator of the
:33:58. > :34:02.Angling Trust. How does this compare to Westminster? You must
:34:02. > :34:07.miss it? I miss the people, I had some really good friends there and
:34:07. > :34:10.still do. I don't work 90 hours a week, I'm not public property and I
:34:10. > :34:13.know the work he on causes I care about four people I like. It's a
:34:13. > :34:17.great privilege to be able to speak up for a sport that has given me a
:34:17. > :34:21.huge amount of pleasure. I thoroughly enjoy what I'm doing.
:34:21. > :34:25.Martin is not alone in carving out a rather enjoyable niche for
:34:25. > :34:30.himself after leaving the Commons. There is Anne Widdecombe, start of
:34:30. > :34:36.Strictly. Former form secretary John Reid became make football club
:34:36. > :34:40.chairman. The Lembit Opik continued to perform as a stand-up comedian.
:34:40. > :34:43.Only kidding! A lot of former MPs going to lobbying or return to
:34:43. > :34:47.previous MPs, but many find the transition from Member of
:34:47. > :34:51.Parliament to the member of the public traumatic. It was
:34:51. > :34:55.devastating, it really was. I was working long, long hours. I hope I
:34:55. > :34:59.was doing a good job. The number of people that voted for me again, I
:34:59. > :35:04.know I was. Sadly, there is a gap in your life way you wanted to do
:35:04. > :35:08.things for people but that had gone. The study of ex-MPs in 2007
:35:08. > :35:13.reported instances of nervous breakdowns, divorce and serious
:35:13. > :35:19.debt. In 2010, a record number of parliamentarians, 148, left the
:35:19. > :35:23.Commons. So, how easy is it to find another job? To be honest, unless
:35:23. > :35:28.you are going into a job as an ex Cabinet minister or something like
:35:28. > :35:33.that, if I went back into Project Management and Bass said, what did
:35:33. > :35:37.you do? If I said I was an MP, they would say, so what? What project
:35:37. > :35:42.did you last manage? There is not a big queue of people wanting to
:35:42. > :35:46.employ ex-MPs. Here are a few tips on how to bring your career to a
:35:46. > :35:50.happy end. Use the skills and abilities you have got, but
:35:50. > :35:55.remember you are an ex-MP. Don't try to pretend you are an MP in
:35:55. > :35:59.waiting. It's a different chapter of your life. Just deal with it.
:35:59. > :36:03.you are in the autumn of your political career, remember that
:36:03. > :36:07.there was life after Westminster. What you make of it is up to you.
:36:07. > :36:10.A special welcome to viewers in Scotland who have joined as well
:36:10. > :36:16.that was going on. There have been watching First Minister's questions
:36:16. > :36:21.from Holyrood. We are discussing what happens after a career in
:36:21. > :36:27.politics. What a masterpiece of planning that we had you on to
:36:27. > :36:30.discuss this subject. The high points of your career in terms of
:36:30. > :36:35.the positions are leader of the Greater London Council, MP for
:36:35. > :36:44.Brent East and then mayor of London for two terms. What was the
:36:44. > :36:48.toughest one to leave? Oh, I think when the GLC was abolished, I
:36:48. > :36:52.assumed that something like that would be back fairly soon. I was on
:36:52. > :36:57.my way to Parliament. I assumed at some point we would have a
:36:57. > :37:03.socialist government. Of course, we ended up with Tony Blair! This time
:37:03. > :37:06.round, when I lost to Boris four years ago, I immediately threw
:37:06. > :37:10.myself into... I mean, there were so many cities around the world
:37:10. > :37:13.that wanted me to visit, which I could not do while I was mayor. I
:37:13. > :37:17.spent too much careers running against Boris Johnson. It's only
:37:17. > :37:20.really after the defeat this time that it was like real retirement.
:37:20. > :37:26.The phone stopped ringing, there were not endless meetings. Does
:37:26. > :37:31.that really happen? Literally, I was being managed 24-seven, running
:37:31. > :37:37.around all over the place. I was losing so much weight, pounding the
:37:37. > :37:40.streets. Very good for your health. And suddenly it came to a stop. I
:37:40. > :37:46.have a friend that is not very well, hadn't gone into his garden for
:37:46. > :37:52.years. I spend all of this summer gardening, cutting down trees,
:37:52. > :37:59.weeding... He found that therapeutic? I love it. Every day I
:37:59. > :38:05.could see two Square feet of soil I had reclaimed. Unlike politics, I
:38:05. > :38:12.spent the early part of 2000, 10 years ago, and lobbying to get
:38:12. > :38:15.Crossrail open in 2018. Gardening, you see an immediate result.
:38:15. > :38:20.general, politicians, particularly those that have had a long career
:38:20. > :38:23.and have done things, I don't mean an MP that has been there for a
:38:23. > :38:29.couple of years and then are gone again, politicians that have real
:38:29. > :38:34.careers men, is it difficult in general for them to adapt once it
:38:34. > :38:39.is over? It might be for a new generation coming up. I'm part of
:38:39. > :38:42.the post-war generation. In act videos they were saying, get off
:38:42. > :38:47.your backside and do something else. My partner is a generation younger
:38:47. > :38:51.than me. My partner says, where is your emotion? Sitting around
:38:51. > :38:56.whining about it isn't going to make any difference. Other than the
:38:56. > :39:01.gardening, that you enjoyed, that is clear... I've got my own garden
:39:01. > :39:06.to do, I'm doing about three gardens. It will come to an end. I
:39:06. > :39:10.am also on the Labour NEC, I do a lot of fund-raising dinners for the
:39:10. > :39:13.Labour Party. I go around in by- elections and all of that. I'm not
:39:13. > :39:23.really retired, and does not holding an office. What do you do
:39:23. > :39:29.to pay the rent? I have got my MP's salary and my mayors' pension. They
:39:29. > :39:33.pay �20,000 a year. Then there is radio and TV work, after-dinner
:39:33. > :39:37.speeches. �50,000 a year, I am really tough to the off. People are
:39:37. > :39:40.struggling a lot more than made. spoke to one Labour MP that is
:39:40. > :39:43.standing down and had been a government minister, a well-
:39:43. > :39:48.regarded career. He said that he was going to get away from
:39:48. > :39:51.Westminster altogether. He was actually thinking of starting a
:39:51. > :39:58.business. That was something he had never done before. He had run
:39:58. > :40:02.departments, but starting a business he thought would be a
:40:02. > :40:07.fresh career. Once the gardens are all done, I might build you a
:40:07. > :40:11.wildlife garden firm? I would quite enjoy that. The only problem is
:40:11. > :40:17.that I cannot drive, I would have to be taking everything around on
:40:17. > :40:22.the Tube. I need you to get enough to hire a sofa.
:40:22. > :40:27.Get your beer goggles on. We are going to talk about ale. It's a bit
:40:27. > :40:31.early to start, well, not at the Daily Politics. But it's not too
:40:31. > :40:37.early for MPs to debate the price of beer. They want to put a halt to
:40:37. > :40:43.something called the beer duty escalator. Thanks. It increases the
:40:43. > :40:48.tax on this stuff every year. The beer and pub Federation have worked
:40:48. > :40:58.out that the average Briton spends... I cannot see where it is.
:40:58. > :40:59.
:40:59. > :41:07.Look at that, �177 the year on beer tax. Compare that to Denmark. This
:41:07. > :41:13.one? I can tell by the name. �64. Spanish... Can you get Spanish
:41:13. > :41:20.beer? I didn't know that. �15 the year. That's quite a big difference.
:41:20. > :41:25.15 for the Spanish, 67 and 177 for us. The price of beer is something
:41:25. > :41:31.that MPs have noticed as well, and online petitioner has attracted
:41:31. > :41:36.100,000 signatures. Andrew Griffiths has represented
:41:36. > :41:42.petitioners in the House of Commons this morning. Here he is, in that
:41:42. > :41:46.Daily Politics pub. Is it a good thing that the Government has tried
:41:46. > :41:48.to discourage people from drinking? We all want responsible drinking,
:41:48. > :41:52.that is absolutely right. The taxation system we have at the
:41:52. > :41:58.moment is encouraging people to drink spirits, to drink wine and,
:41:58. > :42:02.actually, beer, a great British product, is suffering as a result.
:42:02. > :42:09.Since the beer duty escalator was introduced, we have seen beer sales
:42:09. > :42:16.drop by 16%. We have seen five Crest Close for why his beer are
:42:16. > :42:21.suffering more? As I understand, or of alcohol is subject to this
:42:21. > :42:30.escalator? Under a Scottish Chancellor, we had 10 years of a
:42:30. > :42:36.freeze on Scottish whisky. Because beer is drunk in pubs more so, this
:42:36. > :42:44.is impacting on community pubs to a large extent. It is forcing growers
:42:44. > :42:49.to struggle. It is forcing pubs to close. -- growers. Do you have any
:42:49. > :42:54.evidence... We know pubs are closing, but what is the evidence
:42:54. > :43:04.that this duty escalator, pushing it up more than the price of
:43:04. > :43:06.
:43:06. > :43:10.inflation, is contributing? Most pubs, they get 50% of their profits
:43:10. > :43:16.from beer. Not only is it damaging pubs and brewers, it is not raising
:43:16. > :43:19.any money. The Treasury forecast shows that in the next four years
:43:19. > :43:22.it will raise no money because sales are dropping as a result. We
:43:22. > :43:31.are shooting ourselves in the foot. If they scrap the beer duty
:43:31. > :43:34.escalator, we would see real growth in the sector. It seems you have a
:43:34. > :43:38.mountain to climb at a time when the Chancellor is desperate for
:43:38. > :43:44.money. He's got to cut public spending, he has been putting up
:43:44. > :43:53.taxes as well. Getting a cut in the beer tax, it seems that it's not
:43:53. > :43:57.going to be that easy? Look at duty on cider. Should you going to lay
:43:57. > :44:02.pub and have a pint of bitter or a pint of cider, there is 50 pence
:44:02. > :44:07.difference in the duty that you pay on a pint of beer. So, every time
:44:07. > :44:12.somebody chooses cider instead of beer, the Treasury is losing 50p.
:44:12. > :44:16.Also, the cider makers have 50 pence tax breaks to spend on
:44:16. > :44:21.promoting their products and marketing and advertising. When you
:44:21. > :44:27.put your points to the Prime their stand the Chancellor about this,
:44:27. > :44:31.what did they say to you as they sip their champagne? I think we all
:44:31. > :44:36.know. David Cameron loves a pint of bitter. He has been photographed on
:44:36. > :44:42.many occasions drinking fine Burton Ale. That doesn't mean he likes it,
:44:42. > :44:46.it means he knows that the cameras are there! He is an beer mother. We
:44:46. > :44:51.have reached a turning point. The thing about a beer escalator is
:44:51. > :44:54.that when you get to the top you stop and get off. We have reached
:44:54. > :44:58.the point where the escalator is not raising any money for the
:44:58. > :45:04.Treasury. It's actually costing jobs and costing sales. Stick with
:45:04. > :45:07.us. Don't go away. Ken Livingstone's reaction. Everybody
:45:07. > :45:17.that wants to cut a tax on something always tells me, whatever
:45:17. > :45:21.
:45:21. > :45:26.it is, it's not raising money $:/STARTFEED. And one pub in London
:45:26. > :45:32.in every 10 closes every year. Most people put their life savings into
:45:32. > :45:37.renting a chub -- pub from a giant corporation and then they are
:45:37. > :45:44.forced to buy their alcohol from them about two or three times the
:45:44. > :45:50.price they can get from the supermarket. P but are drinking at
:45:50. > :45:54.home because it is cheaper. Thatcher, give her her due, she got
:45:54. > :46:02.rid of the tied cottage, but it has crept back and it forces the public
:46:03. > :46:06.to buy from giant corporations. British beer a pub Federation works
:46:06. > :46:13.hand-in-hand with the giant corporations? Yes, that is right
:46:13. > :46:19.and the industry has had some problems and some self regulation
:46:19. > :46:23.has been brought in. One of the big problems is the supermarkets. They
:46:23. > :46:27.use alcohol as a loss-leader and have driven the prices down and as
:46:27. > :46:34.a result we see more people drinking at home unsupervised.
:46:34. > :46:37.ary briefly because we have run out of time, on a scale of 1 to 10, 10
:46:37. > :46:47.being good for you, what is the chance of you getting this at the
:46:47. > :46:53.next Budget? I am optimistic. I would say nine, Andrew, I'm a
:46:53. > :46:58.born optimist. That is certainly optimistic. Have one on me. I have
:46:58. > :47:04.eight tab behind the bar. When the contract to run the West Coast main
:47:04. > :47:08.line was handed to FirstGroup, there were cries of foul play from
:47:08. > :47:13.Virgin Trains. Richard Branson claimed the Department for
:47:13. > :47:17.Transport had got their calculations wrong. The protest was
:47:17. > :47:24.dismissed as sour grapes. Then last month the Transport Minister had to
:47:24. > :47:32.admit there were serious flaws in the franchise process. Yesterday he
:47:33. > :47:37.faced MPs on the transport committee. The mistakes which were
:47:38. > :47:43.made on the InterCity West Coast franchise should not have been made
:47:43. > :47:46.and they were serious for the Department. We have apologised to
:47:46. > :47:56.the bidders involved and the taxpayers who have a right to
:47:56. > :47:56.
:47:56. > :48:01.expect better. Would the interim report, which can only be described
:48:01. > :48:07.as a damning indictment of the Department, and the report found
:48:07. > :48:11.the department knew the process was flawed and lacked transparency,
:48:11. > :48:16.that it changed the rules at the last minute without telling the
:48:16. > :48:24.bidders and acted unfairly and was aware it was open to legal
:48:24. > :48:28.challenge. In view of all of that, do you wish you could have asked
:48:28. > :48:33.more questions in the department before you came to the conclusion
:48:33. > :48:39.that you're content with the way things had been done? Guided ask
:48:39. > :48:44.questions and I was assured when I came here in the little time I had,
:48:44. > :48:50.it was shortly after my appointment, within a week that I was here, but
:48:50. > :48:56.I was not in the Department for the whole week, but I was a steward the
:48:56. > :49:03.award of the franchise was safe, it was technically said. Do I regret
:49:03. > :49:07.not asking more questions? I think I would have been sure that
:49:07. > :49:11.although there were some small issues that had come to light, I
:49:11. > :49:20.was assured that would have had no change on the overall awarding of
:49:20. > :49:25.the franchise. That was the new Transport Secretary before the
:49:25. > :49:29.Transport Select Committee in the Commons. Is it time to
:49:29. > :49:33.renationalise the trains? Ken Livingstone has long argued they
:49:33. > :49:37.should be taken back under state control. We are joined by Richard
:49:37. > :49:41.Wellings, from the Institute of Economic Affairs, he thinks they
:49:41. > :49:48.should stay in private hands. Summarise the case for state
:49:49. > :49:55.ownership. You go back to Adam Smith. If you have a monopoly,
:49:55. > :50:00.people will still permute. The only time was when British Airways was
:50:00. > :50:04.privatise, they were not ripped off because they had competition will
:50:04. > :50:10.start we have got the highest energy prices in Europe. If you
:50:10. > :50:16.give somebody a monopoly or a cartel, they will rip us off.
:50:16. > :50:20.disagree. There have been several successes on the railway. A big
:50:20. > :50:27.increase in passenger numbers and freight, investment in the
:50:27. > :50:31.infrastructure, but the process is we did not have proper
:50:31. > :50:38.privatisation. Civil servants decide to run the trains. Somebody
:50:38. > :50:46.has to decide to the franchise goes too. That is not a genuine
:50:46. > :50:49.privatise stretch. If you look at vertical integration, the same
:50:49. > :50:55.company owned the trains and the track and that would have been more
:50:56. > :51:00.wet sufficient. We can see the difference. In London the Mayor
:51:00. > :51:05.controls the bus companies and regulates them and they have to run
:51:05. > :51:13.as the Mayor directs. Outside London it is a free for all.
:51:13. > :51:17.Anybody going on a bus in London, and anyone getting on outside
:51:17. > :51:24.London, they will all say in London they are brilliant and outside it
:51:24. > :51:28.is ghastly. It is a regulated market? The Mayor tells them how
:51:28. > :51:34.often they will run the service. Basically it could be run by the
:51:34. > :51:39.Meyer. One of the arguments was British Rail was taking up too much
:51:39. > :51:44.in subsidy. When I look at the figures, now we have privatise it
:51:45. > :51:51.is a lot more. Over �5 billion worth of subsidies going into the
:51:51. > :51:56.railways. It is a massive problem, it has tripled since privatisation.
:51:56. > :52:00.That is a lot of money. It is disgraceful. In it is not
:52:00. > :52:06.privatisation. The railway companies are sub-contractors for
:52:06. > :52:11.the state. We should try it proper privatisation. What does that mean?
:52:11. > :52:16.We get away from all the layers of bureaucracy, as we see with the
:52:16. > :52:21.Civil Service taking a role and it would bring costs down. Who would
:52:21. > :52:26.decide to run a train from London to Manchester. The company would
:52:26. > :52:30.buy both the tracks and run the trains and it would be after them.
:52:30. > :52:36.There is no railway in the world that makes a profit, everyone has
:52:36. > :52:42.to be subsidised. That is not the case. In the 19th century the
:52:42. > :52:48.railways were built by the private sector. It is a changed world.
:52:48. > :52:52.there is more competition so the monopoly threat is reduced.
:52:52. > :52:57.watched this when I was Mayor. I brought in a lot of Americans who
:52:57. > :53:02.ran big things and they negotiated quite prettily with the contractors.
:53:02. > :53:07.Part of the problem is it is now the Civil Service. Something like
:53:07. > :53:12.the Richard Branson fiasco comes up, they might negotiate a contract
:53:12. > :53:16.every few years. But you need people who do this every year.
:53:16. > :53:23.Civil servants do not have those skills to negotiate with giant
:53:23. > :53:27.corporations. On his side up the argument, passenger numbers are up.
:53:27. > :53:36.I do not know if the camera can get this. This graph is quite
:53:36. > :53:39.remarkable. Suddenly after privatisation it goes up. Under
:53:39. > :53:47.British Rail the number of passengers had been in gentle
:53:47. > :53:50.decline. Passenger numbers are up, apparently from the surveys
:53:50. > :53:56.passenger satisfaction is high, and we have one of the safest railways
:53:56. > :54:00.in Europe. Public transport is taking off again because travelling
:54:00. > :54:07.on the motorway is a nightmare, people are more mobile than they
:54:07. > :54:11.used to be a. In London we have had the same thing, a 50% increase in
:54:11. > :54:16.bus and Tube usage. People are turning to public transport. You
:54:16. > :54:21.would have to be out of your mind to drive a car. I will give you the
:54:21. > :54:25.final word. We need to build on this and think about the
:54:25. > :54:30.fundamental stretch of the rail industry and can we get a subsidy
:54:30. > :54:35.is down to a reasonable level? you very much for becoming part of
:54:35. > :54:41.our debate will stop facial hair, there is not enough of it about
:54:41. > :54:48.these days, as Ken will agree. Turn the clock back 30 years and any man
:54:48. > :54:54.worth his salt would be sprouting some fine plumage on his upper lip.
:54:54. > :54:58.But now we have got something called Movember. Once a year for a
:54:58. > :55:03.one-month men across the world it to express themselves and strut
:55:03. > :55:08.their stuff by growing a fine pair of handlebars. It is for a good
:55:08. > :55:13.cause and we will be speaking to a number of MPs who are up to the
:55:13. > :55:19.challenge. First, here are some time -- parliamentarians who used
:55:19. > :55:29.to be brave enough to sport a fine moustache, and also some
:55:29. > :55:48.
:55:49. > :55:54.suggestions for others who can be # 100 hairs make a man! #. It looks
:55:54. > :56:01.like something from the Wild West. All the coalition members had
:56:01. > :56:08.droopy ones! I am joined by the two MPs who are going to have a go. Why
:56:08. > :56:14.are you going to do this? I am going to try and grow a moustache.
:56:14. > :56:19.In the Somerset when I was on holiday I did not shave for a week
:56:19. > :56:24.and I did not see the defence. But it is a very good cause raising
:56:24. > :56:29.awareness about prostate cancer and I am willing to make an idiot of
:56:29. > :56:36.myself. You have only got one month. It is the month of November you get
:56:36. > :56:43.to do this. That is right and I feel like my attempt is a bit like
:56:43. > :56:48.their UK economy, a lack of growth. But 10,000 men a year die of
:56:48. > :56:52.prostate cancer. If we can make a difference, both in fund raising
:56:52. > :56:57.and awareness, that will be a good thing, because it is a tableau
:56:57. > :57:03.subject. A lot of men do not like to talk about it or go and get
:57:03. > :57:08.check-ups and so on. Are you raising money? Our people
:57:09. > :57:14.sponsoring you? Yes, I will be setting up a website page and I
:57:14. > :57:18.hope people will sponsor me. Also Royal Mail have pledged for every
:57:18. > :57:28.pound we raised, they will match that will stop her abuse started
:57:28. > :57:28.
:57:28. > :57:34.yet because I cannot see anything? Yes, I had started. You famously
:57:34. > :57:39.had one once, but I am told you would never bring it back. My wife
:57:39. > :57:43.said she would have never taken up with me if I still had a moustache.
:57:44. > :57:48.But it was the end of the Sixties and I thought I would have more
:57:48. > :57:54.success with bells if I had a moustache. And did you? I do not
:57:54. > :58:00.think so. I tried a beard, but my beard looked like a battered toilet
:58:00. > :58:05.brush. They do not take off. These things come and go with fashion,
:58:05. > :58:13.there were a lot of MPs with moustaches when I came in. Will you
:58:13. > :58:19.keep it? I would doubt so, but I know some people who are cutting
:58:19. > :58:24.their privet hedges into moustaches. One to about you? It in a month I
:58:24. > :58:29.have managed to grow a fantastic moustache, which I doubt, I will
:58:29. > :58:34.reconsider it. You have both managed expectations well, we are
:58:34. > :58:37.not expecting much. Comeback in a month's time and tell us how it is
:58:37. > :58:43.going. A special thanks to Ken