07/11/2012

:00:45. > :00:50.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. I have never been

:00:50. > :00:57.more hopeful about our future. I have never been more hopeful about

:00:57. > :01:02.America. And I ask you to sustain that hope. Four more years for

:01:02. > :01:06.Obama as he sweeps to to victory in the US presidential elections. The

:01:06. > :01:08.defeated Mitt Romney calls for an end to political bickering. He will

:01:08. > :01:14.be lucky. Europe's most powerful woman is on

:01:14. > :01:18.her way to Downing Street to knock out an agreement on the EU budget.

:01:18. > :01:21.Will they make any progress? We have elections closer to home

:01:21. > :01:25.next Thursday, not quite as exciting, but voters in England and

:01:25. > :01:29.Wales will choose their Police and Crime Commissioners, we will tell

:01:29. > :01:34.you what's what. I am an MP, get me off the

:01:34. > :01:41.backbenches. As she touches down down under, Nadine Dorries is

:01:41. > :01:43.suspended by the Chief Whip. With us today for 90 minutes of the

:01:43. > :01:50.finest in public service broadcasting available on this side

:01:50. > :01:54.of the Atlantic are - think of them of the Romney and Obama of British

:01:54. > :01:58.politics. Caroline Flint and Damien Green. Welcome to you both. First

:01:58. > :02:02.the main story, perhaps even the year, Barack Obama has been re-

:02:02. > :02:05.elected as President of the United States of America. You have heard a

:02:05. > :02:09.lot about electoral colleges and swing states over the last few days,

:02:09. > :02:13.here are the latest results as they stand. With all states having

:02:13. > :02:17.declared, except for Florida, keeping an eye on that one, Barack

:02:18. > :02:21.Obama has 303 electoral college votes, compared to Mitt Romney's

:02:21. > :02:28.206. He won almost all of the crucial

:02:28. > :02:31.swing states, including Ohio. That state's 18 votes fell in the

:02:31. > :02:35.President's favour and took him across the winning line. There were

:02:35. > :02:39.congressional elections, as well. The results didn't change.

:02:39. > :02:47.The Democrats keep control of the Senate on the latest figures. They

:02:47. > :02:53.returned 51 Senators compared to the Republicans' 45 and two two

:02:53. > :02:56.independents. The house of representives the Republicans still

:02:56. > :03:03.hold the majority. The US networks declared Mr Obama

:03:03. > :03:08.the winner around 4.30am our time but it was almost 6.00am UK time

:03:08. > :03:10.before Governor Romney conceded defeat. Later President Obama

:03:10. > :03:15.addressed supporters in his home town of Chicago. Both men looking

:03:15. > :03:19.for a more bipartisan future, though they always say this sort of

:03:19. > :03:24.thing at this time. I have just called President Obama to

:03:24. > :03:28.congratulate him on his victory, his supporters and his campaign

:03:28. > :03:31.also deserve contkwrat -- congratulations. I wish all of them

:03:31. > :03:35.well, but particularly the President, the First Lady and their

:03:35. > :03:45.daughters. This is a time of great challenges for America and I pray

:03:45. > :03:49.that the President will be successful in guiding our nation.

:03:49. > :03:57.The nation, as you know, is at a critical point, at a time like this

:03:57. > :04:01.we can't risk partisan bickering and political posturing, we have to

:04:01. > :04:04.do the people's work and citizens have to rise to the occasion.

:04:04. > :04:09.the weeks ahead I also look forward to sitting down with Governor

:04:09. > :04:18.Romney to talk about where we can work together to move this country

:04:18. > :04:22.forward. We will disagree, sometimes fiercely about how to get

:04:22. > :04:27.there, as it has for more than two centuries, progress will come in

:04:27. > :04:31.fits and starts. It's not always a straight line, it's not always a

:04:31. > :04:37.smooth path. By itself the recognition that we have common

:04:37. > :04:42.hopes and dreams won't end all the gridlock or solve all our problems

:04:42. > :04:47.or substitute for the pain-staking work of building consensus and

:04:47. > :04:55.making the difficult compromises needed to move this country forward.

:04:55. > :05:05.But that common bond is where we must begin. Our economy is

:05:05. > :05:08.recovering, a decade of war is ending. A long campaign is now over.

:05:08. > :05:11.President Obama there. Joining us now from Washington is our

:05:11. > :05:15.correspondent Kim Ghattas. In the final weeks of the campaign

:05:15. > :05:21.everybody was saying it was just too close to call. In the end,

:05:21. > :05:27.President Obama won really pretty comfortably. What happened? Well,

:05:27. > :05:33.several things happened, including a superstorm last week which really

:05:33. > :05:37.gave President Obama an opportunity to remind the American people of

:05:38. > :05:42.his style of leadership. He was out there during - or after the storm

:05:42. > :05:45.in the north-east of the United States, being presidential, instead

:05:45. > :05:49.of campaigning and Mitt Romney was out of the picture for a few days.

:05:49. > :05:56.Of course, that's not what helped him win the election but it helped

:05:56. > :05:59.him edge forward in those polls. Then, a fantastic political machine.

:05:59. > :06:03.President Obama in his victory speech himself described it as

:06:03. > :06:08.possibly the best political team in political history and he is

:06:08. > :06:14.probably right. Then you have the issues. You have women and you have

:06:14. > :06:18.the anti-immigration policies of the Republicans. Their policies on

:06:18. > :06:22.women, their positions on women are also very alienating so those two

:06:22. > :06:27.issues were really detrimental when it comes to getting the vote out

:06:27. > :06:31.for Republicans. Women came out in droves for Obama. And Latinos, 69%

:06:31. > :06:36.of them voted for Mr Obama. Then you have the economy. It was

:06:36. > :06:40.supposed to be Mr Obama's weak point. In the end, in some strange

:06:40. > :06:44.way it may have been one of his strong points because we were

:06:44. > :06:50.seeing the beginnings of a recovery and people probably thought we

:06:50. > :06:55.better keep with this steady hand. Briefly, ironically after what's

:06:55. > :07:00.been dubbed a bitter and negative campaign, calls from all sides for

:07:00. > :07:04.a more bipartisan approach. Is that wishful thinking? It's the classy

:07:04. > :07:10.thing to say when you have lost and you have just won and certainly

:07:10. > :07:14.President Obama is going to try to reach across the the aisle and Mitt

:07:14. > :07:17.Romney may think this is possible and may feel himself to be in a

:07:17. > :07:22.compromising mood but you have to remember that the popular vote is

:07:22. > :07:27.very much split down the middle. This is not a nation that has come

:07:27. > :07:31.together, healed divisions and overwhelmingly elected Mr Obama. He

:07:31. > :07:34.has the majority with the electoral votes but does not have an

:07:34. > :07:38.overwhelming mandate from the people. So there is still going to

:07:38. > :07:43.be opposition against his policies down the line, particularly because

:07:43. > :07:49.as you mentioned, the House of Representatives is still dominated

:07:49. > :07:53.by Republicans, as well. Thank you. Not everybody said it was too close

:07:53. > :07:57.to call, for the record. Who said it wasn't too close to call?

:07:57. > :08:00.need to dwell on that. A pat on the back!

:08:00. > :08:04.It was too close to call in the popular vote, but the electoral

:08:04. > :08:08.college vote it was always clear Mr Obama had a substantial majority

:08:08. > :08:12.and that's what happened on the night. The popular votes close,

:08:12. > :08:17.only a couple of million in it, but Mr Obama has a majority of over 100

:08:17. > :08:21.in the electoral college because he picks up the big states with the

:08:21. > :08:31.big electoral college votes and Mr Romney didn't get any of the swing

:08:31. > :08:32.

:08:32. > :08:38.states, bar north Carolina, so far. They lost a seat in Massachusetts,

:08:38. > :08:41.a state Mr Romney had once before Governor of. Damien, Mr Obama is

:08:41. > :08:47.still in the White House. Democrats still have the Senate. What's

:08:47. > :08:50.changed? Well, not a lot in some ways. If we are drawing lessons

:08:50. > :08:54.from Britain and inevitably it's always slightly artificial to do

:08:54. > :08:58.that, but I take heart from the lesson that even in difficult

:08:58. > :09:02.economic times governments that are seen to be gripping the economic

:09:03. > :09:06.issue and tackling it get re- elected. That heartens me. If you

:09:06. > :09:11.look at the Republican side, what the Republicans didn't get was -

:09:11. > :09:18.they got almost no black votes, they got few his pan I can votes, -

:09:18. > :09:22.- Hispanic votes. They got only a minority of female votes, and among

:09:22. > :09:26.young college educated women they were way back. If you look at the

:09:26. > :09:32.Conservatives in Britain you are in an equivalent place, almost no

:09:32. > :09:36.black votes, no Asian votes, and you are bad among women votes.

:09:37. > :09:40.That's an exageation -- exaggeration. You are not good in

:09:40. > :09:43.these categories. There is a warning, I suspect Mitt Romney lost

:09:43. > :09:49.this election, not during the general campaign, but actually

:09:49. > :09:56.during the primaries where he tacked too far to his own party's

:09:56. > :09:59.slightly wilder fringes. People didn't forget that. I think the

:09:59. > :10:02.lesson for my party, the Conservative Party, is precisely,

:10:02. > :10:06.keep doing what David Cameron has always done, which is reach out

:10:06. > :10:11.beyond the base and issues which are difficult, which he has taken

:10:11. > :10:14.on, like overseas aid where there is criticism from within the party,

:10:14. > :10:20.stick to it, actually it's not just the right thing to do, it's the

:10:20. > :10:24.right thing to do politically, as well. We have a clip of the Prime

:10:24. > :10:29.Minister reacting to Mr Obama's re- election.

:10:29. > :10:33.I would like to congratulate Barack Obama on his re-election. I have

:10:33. > :10:36.really enjoyed working with him over these last few years and I

:10:36. > :10:41.look forward to working with him again. There's so many things that

:10:41. > :10:47.we need to do. We need to kick- start the world economy and I want

:10:47. > :10:51.to see an EU-US trade deal, in Jordan I am hearing appalling

:10:51. > :10:57.stories of what's happened in Syria and one of the the first things I

:10:57. > :11:02.want to talk about is how we must do more to try to solve this crisis.

:11:02. > :11:07.It's Barack now! My mate, says Mr Cameron. Speaking there in Jordan.

:11:07. > :11:12.Caroline Flint, the danger for Labour, looking at this is that if

:11:12. > :11:15.you are the incumbent, trajectory is everything. The economy is still

:11:15. > :11:19.in trouble but it seems to be getting better, living standards

:11:19. > :11:21.are beginning to rise again. Now the coalition, particularly the

:11:22. > :11:25.Conservatives, that's what they'll be saying come the next election.

:11:25. > :11:29.It's been tough, it's still difficult, but it's getting better.

:11:29. > :11:33.Give us another chance. I think that's an obvious thing that Damien

:11:33. > :11:38.and the Conservatives are going to say. I would counterthat to say

:11:38. > :11:41.this, first of all, Barack Obama has created a massive injection of

:11:41. > :11:46.investment into the economy, I think I am right in saying they've

:11:46. > :11:50.had 32 consecutive months of job growth. The job growth is not as

:11:50. > :11:54.good as Britain's. It's a consistent trend for them. In my

:11:54. > :11:58.own area, energy, he has taken, you know, the leadership to say we need

:11:58. > :12:02.to invest in green technologies, we need to invest in low carbon. That

:12:02. > :12:08.is helping... Can I just say, the biggest decision he has taken is to

:12:08. > :12:10.say let's invest in shale gas, is Labour in favour of that? There are

:12:10. > :12:15.environmental considerations to consider, if it's viable, let's

:12:15. > :12:20.look at that. The truth is he has said that but he's also said about

:12:20. > :12:24.investing in other low carbon, much more low carbon than shale gas.

:12:24. > :12:28.Last week we saw in this country how all over the place the

:12:28. > :12:31.coalition are on that issue. He is also someone for whom the American

:12:31. > :12:35.public believe that he is in touch with their concerns and actually

:12:35. > :12:38.Americans saying overwhelmingly compared to Mitt Romney that he is

:12:38. > :12:42.actually understands the concerns of those people who are struggling

:12:42. > :12:48.and poorer. He has advocated tax cuts for the very rich, for example.

:12:48. > :12:52.Mitt Romney was advocating to actually tax cuts for the rich,

:12:52. > :12:55.Obama was saying no to tax cuts for the rich, these are dividing lines

:12:55. > :13:01.that illustrated here in terms of actually David Cameron being more

:13:01. > :13:05.of a Mitt Romney candidate than an Obama candidate. David Cameron's a

:13:06. > :13:09.Mitt Romney? I am saying... Miliband is Barack Obama? David

:13:09. > :13:13.Cameron has supported tax cuts for the very rich. There are people in

:13:13. > :13:17.this country who say he is out of touch and not in touch... The rate

:13:18. > :13:21.he's cut is back to is 5% higher than it was for the whole of

:13:21. > :13:27.Labour's 13 years in pow sneer we are going to see next year people...

:13:27. > :13:32.Tax on the rich is higher under Labour. We know from organisations

:13:32. > :13:35.that have said the budgets have put in by this Government are

:13:35. > :13:38.regressive and not fair. political editor said to me last

:13:39. > :13:44.night, who is close to the coalition, if there had been a

:13:44. > :13:49.polling booth in Downing Street it would have been a land landslide

:13:49. > :13:53.for Obama? In 2008 I went to one of the election night parties and

:13:53. > :13:58.people were shocked to find a Conservative MP handing out pins at

:13:58. > :14:02.the door and I was wearing an Obama one. This time? Absolutely, Wye

:14:02. > :14:08.have voted for Obama. A few of your side campaigning for Mitt Romney as

:14:08. > :14:11.well. Who was? I have seen Rob Wilson on Twitter this morning

:14:11. > :14:16.saying this is, four more years where things aren't going to get

:14:16. > :14:20.done. You said Conservatives were campaigning for Obama, who was?

:14:20. > :14:25.understand people were out there supporting it. Who? I can't say the

:14:25. > :14:28.name. You are making an accusation but haven't got a name. You can see

:14:28. > :14:33.from Twitter this morning there were Conservative MPs supporting

:14:33. > :14:36.Mitt Romney. It's different from campaigning.

:14:36. > :14:43.It's the first time in 40 years that both candidates on a ticket

:14:43. > :14:47.lost their states? I didn't, I do know. Massachusetts and Wisconsin

:14:47. > :14:51.went. They did. Trivial knowledge. President Obama

:14:51. > :14:54.will be hoping for a more favourable global economic backdrop

:14:54. > :14:59.during his next term as President. The eurozone crisis has not gone

:14:59. > :15:03.away and this evening Angela Merkel flies into London to try to break

:15:03. > :15:07.the impasse over the the EU budget with David Cameron. The EU wants a

:15:07. > :15:10.6% increase in the budget over 7 years. David Cameron has called for

:15:11. > :15:14.an increase only in line with inflation. But last week his own

:15:14. > :15:18.MPs rebelled on the issue demanding a complete freeze. One of those

:15:18. > :15:28.rebels, Mark Reckless is on College Green. Welcome to the programme.

:15:28. > :15:30.

:15:30. > :15:34.What do you want David Cameron to We want a cut in the EU budget,

:15:34. > :15:38.just as we are seeing cuts in domestic budgets across the country.

:15:38. > :15:42.I would like David Cameron to welcome Angela Merkel to Britain,

:15:42. > :15:47.but there's clearly been a parting of the ways. While you expect

:15:47. > :15:51.Germany wants a cut in the budget, given that it always pays in more,

:15:51. > :15:55.the reality is they are so deep into the euro they're prepared to

:15:55. > :15:58.pay higher out into the EU budget and in this country our Parliament

:15:58. > :16:03.and our people are not. Are you expecting a clash between the two,

:16:03. > :16:13.since there's been a parting of the ways? The newspaper headlines say

:16:13. > :16:20.it all, "Discord over the EU budget." And, "Merkel threatens

:16:20. > :16:27.Cameron with a clash.". It will be difficult to reach agreement on the

:16:27. > :16:32.EU budget. The two countries have a lot of interests in common. Germany

:16:32. > :16:35.sells 75 billion euros of goods to us every year and we need to see a

:16:35. > :16:40.relationship with Germany where it's a supporter and friendly

:16:40. > :16:43.relationship, but one where we trade freely, but where this

:16:43. > :16:47.country governs ourselves. What can David Cameron to move Angela

:16:48. > :16:52.Merkel? What should he threaten her with? I think he should reassure

:16:52. > :16:56.her that whatever happens in terms of the budget, however much Britain

:16:56. > :17:00.is unable to go along with the EU and the way Germany wants to take

:17:00. > :17:07.that, we want to remain on friendly terms with Germany and there should

:17:07. > :17:11.be a free trade arrangement between Britain and the EU, just as EU --

:17:11. > :17:14.the EU has with Switzerland and others. It would be easier to do

:17:15. > :17:17.that outside of the structures of the EU so we are not always getting

:17:17. > :17:22.in Germany's way and stopping them taking Europe to the political

:17:22. > :17:26.union they want, but where they are still able to sell us to and we are

:17:26. > :17:30.still able to sell to them. All the reports say Angela Merkel is fed up

:17:30. > :17:34.with David Cameron. She holds the cheque book, so she calls the

:17:34. > :17:37.shots? I think that's right. I think that really supports what

:17:37. > :17:41.I've just said, that we shouldn't be getting in their way and

:17:41. > :17:44.stopping them taking the EU in the way they want and always explaining

:17:44. > :17:49.from the sidelines. We should be better off as an independent

:17:49. > :17:52.country, trading with Europe and governing ourselves. Germany will

:17:52. > :17:56.still want to sell their cars to us and we'll still want to export to

:17:56. > :17:59.them. The fact that Germany is so powerful within the EU is a good

:17:59. > :18:03.thing, because they have a strong interest in negotiating a free

:18:03. > :18:07.trade deal with Britain and we would be better off with that trade

:18:07. > :18:14.relationship, but taking our own decisions for us in our Parliament.

:18:14. > :18:17.Thank you. David Cameron's flying back from

:18:17. > :18:22.Jordan, Angela Merkel is coming in from Berlin. They'll dine tonight

:18:22. > :18:32.at Downing Street. I'm sure it will be very cosy. To find out what

:18:32. > :18:32.

:18:32. > :18:39.might happen we are joined from Berlin by the German MP Ralph

:18:40. > :18:45.BrinkHauss. David Cameron is going to say to Mrs Merkel tonight that

:18:45. > :18:53.he wants a real-term freeze on the EU budget. What will Mrs Merkel say

:18:53. > :18:58.in reply? So I guess that is a question of budget. It's not a main

:18:58. > :19:08.issue. Regarding the future of Europe, we are concerned about what

:19:08. > :19:08.

:19:08. > :19:12.Mr Reckless said some minutes ago, that there is a sway from the UA.

:19:12. > :19:17.This is a tragedy for the political and economic union. Do you think

:19:17. > :19:24.that will happen? Do you see Britain is becoming increasingly

:19:24. > :19:30.semi-detached from Europe? What we see is that we are separating,

:19:30. > :19:35.because the attitude from many politicians of the UK is that we

:19:35. > :19:41.want to have only a market union, a single market. But what we see is

:19:41. > :19:46.we also have to have a political union and this is really a main

:19:46. > :19:51.point. To add something to it, you cannot be a member of a single

:19:51. > :19:55.market club without paying the membership fee. This is the

:19:55. > :20:01.attitude of Mr Reckless and it will not work. Is it reaching the stage

:20:01. > :20:05.where Britain is now clearly suck a drag on the European Union doing

:20:05. > :20:09.what it wants to do, the core countries certainly, that it would

:20:09. > :20:16.be better if Britain was a lot more semi-detached and didn't get in the

:20:17. > :20:21.way? No, I guess rereally need Britain. We need Britain to balance

:20:21. > :20:25.the European Union, to balance the peripharals of the country of

:20:25. > :20:29.southern Europe and the countries of the middle of Europe and of

:20:30. > :20:34.northern Europe. For this reason it is really a tragedy what is

:20:34. > :20:37.happening and we have to do everything to keep Britain in the

:20:37. > :20:42.union. All right. Let me come back to one of the big issues. You

:20:42. > :20:45.didn't want to talk about it at the start, but one of the big issues in

:20:45. > :20:49.the British political scene, at a time when Britain is cutting its

:20:49. > :20:53.public spending and increasing taxes, things are hurting and the

:20:53. > :20:59.number of police has been cut and cuts in social service budgets and

:20:59. > :21:03.welfare and so on, the British across the political spectrum are

:21:03. > :21:06.keen that the European budget shouldn't increase. What is the

:21:06. > :21:12.German position? So, we have exactly the same attitude, so

:21:12. > :21:16.members of German Parliament, at at least from me party, also want to

:21:16. > :21:20.freeze the budget. There is no question about it, but it's not the

:21:21. > :21:26.time to have all the vetoes and say no. It's a time for compromise, so

:21:26. > :21:30.what we are facing is the situation where we have a big package and one

:21:30. > :21:33.point in this package is the budget and we also have another issue in

:21:33. > :21:36.this package, it's the bail-out question and it's the question of

:21:36. > :21:40.the future of a common Europe. We have to arrange a compromise and at

:21:40. > :21:46.the end of the day we need on the one hand the UK and on the other,

:21:46. > :21:51.for example, Italy and France. This is the aim of Angela Merkel, to

:21:51. > :21:58.analyse this compromise. But even the German Foreign Secretary says

:21:58. > :22:04.that the EU budget is a nonsense, subsidies going to day spas and

:22:04. > :22:06.romantic hotels and the Common Agricultural Policy, which is a

:22:06. > :22:10.backward-looking 20th century invention, dominates the spending

:22:10. > :22:14.of the budget. What do you say? This is absolutely true, but we

:22:14. > :22:19.have to see the budget as a process. What we want to have in the future

:22:19. > :22:25.is a budget to organise growth. Not to organise old-fashioned parts of

:22:25. > :22:29.the economy. You haven't got that. You have got an old-fashioned

:22:29. > :22:35.budget and if anything, there will be cuts in research and development

:22:35. > :22:39.and cuts in funds going to eastern Europe, but the French and the

:22:39. > :22:43.inefficient German farmers will still get the CAP? I do not think

:22:43. > :22:48.that the German farmers are inefficient. I guess we have to see

:22:48. > :22:51.what German farmers are doing. was trying to provoke you. It is

:22:51. > :22:55.very rural, so I have to complain about that! It's absolutely true,

:22:55. > :22:59.that we have to improve this budget. This is the process and we need the

:22:59. > :23:02.support of the UK within this process and without the support of

:23:03. > :23:07.the UK within the process we get into a situation or we will get

:23:07. > :23:11.into the situation as if we have to rely on the countries and they will

:23:12. > :23:15.be in the south of Europe and these countries want to have the old-

:23:15. > :23:20.fashioned budget as you have addressed it. Stick with us. I want

:23:20. > :23:23.to bring in Damian Green, who is a member of the Conservative Party in

:23:23. > :23:28.the coalition government. What do you say to our friend from Germany

:23:28. > :23:33.that you are just getting more and more distant. You are not a player

:23:33. > :23:36.and you're on the margins and edges and he regrets that? I would say

:23:36. > :23:41.first that the person who speaks not just for the Government but for

:23:41. > :23:51.the party is David Cameron on this, rather than Mark Reckless and David

:23:51. > :23:52.

:23:52. > :23:57.Cameron is trying to do things that, as ralph has just said, he should

:23:57. > :24:00.freeze. He said he would like to, but he's prepared to compromise.

:24:00. > :24:05.David Cameron will say he'll use the veto if there's not a freeze.

:24:05. > :24:10.That is a sensible position. Unless you actually put some lines down

:24:10. > :24:13.then you do just get the drift that Europe too often falls into.

:24:14. > :24:17.Actually saying at this time, actually increasing spending in

:24:17. > :24:22.ways that may well not be constructive, is not a sense ill-

:24:22. > :24:26.thing for Europe. It's obviously not for sensible for us in Britain

:24:26. > :24:31.to contribute, but it's less sensible for Germany, that

:24:31. > :24:38.contributes even more. Labour doesn't want to compromise along

:24:38. > :24:43.the lines that Mr Brinkhaus is presenting, so no compromise for

:24:43. > :24:52.you. That's correct. We voted on that in July as well, on a moction.

:24:52. > :24:56.-- a motion. We do believe that a cross -- across the situation, we

:24:56. > :25:00.have all of us are tightening our belts and reduce our budgets and

:25:00. > :25:03.there's nothing wrong at this point in time in expecting the same of

:25:03. > :25:10.the EU. I think part of the problem for David Cameron is going back to

:25:10. > :25:14.when he went to the meeting and said shaking the veto and we were

:25:14. > :25:17.left outside of discussions, he hasn't created the diplomatic

:25:17. > :25:24.negotiation that was necessary for him to be in a better position to

:25:25. > :25:29.ask for a real-terms cut and that is a shame. I'm going to give you

:25:30. > :25:36.the final word. At a time in continental Europe, particularly in

:25:36. > :25:39.Greece, Italy, Spain, now France hol hol hol has said this is the --

:25:39. > :25:43.Francois Hollande has said this is the most austere budget in Paris,

:25:43. > :25:47.where is there not a bigger head of steam in Europe for a freeze on the

:25:47. > :25:53.European budget, or even a cut in the budget when national budgets

:25:53. > :25:57.are being slashed? I guess because this is not the main question. We

:25:57. > :26:01.are talking about a banking union. We are talking about a lot of

:26:01. > :26:06.regulation stuff. We are talking about bail-out questions or about

:26:06. > :26:09.the debt crisis and so this issue of the budget is not the main point

:26:10. > :26:14.in political discussions. I regret this, because I am absolutely in

:26:14. > :26:19.the same position as most of my friends in the UK, that we really

:26:19. > :26:24.have to freeze the budget or at least modernise it and so the final

:26:24. > :26:32.word of my side is please we need your support. Thank you very much.

:26:32. > :26:40.We do a programme called Politics Europe it's on every -- once a

:26:40. > :26:43.month every Friday, I hope you'll join us on that. Now, are you a

:26:44. > :26:48.discontented member of Parliament, trying to get noticed on the

:26:48. > :26:53.backbenches? Showing off your knowledge about the price of basic

:26:53. > :26:57.food stubgz, bred, -- bread, eggs, milk perhaps? We know what you need

:26:57. > :27:00.to do to brighten up your day, a contest in which you can prove your

:27:00. > :27:04.worth and we have just the thing and you don't need to embarrass

:27:04. > :27:10.yourself in the Australian jungle to win this one. The Daily Politics

:27:10. > :27:15.mug, or drink the kangaroo urine it contains. I don't know whose mug

:27:15. > :27:25.that got into. Sorry about that! It was yours then! We'll see if you

:27:25. > :27:28.

:27:28. > :27:38.can remember when this happened. # A tingle up and down the spine...

:27:38. > :27:42.

:27:42. > :27:45.Arch arch I'm ready, willing and able... # Here you see the figure

:27:45. > :27:51.has been exceeded, so I can confirm that there will be a Conservative

:27:51. > :28:01.government. # You lay your cards on the table

:28:01. > :28:12.

:28:12. > :28:20.and tell me what you plan to do... # Everybody's doing it, the mambo

:28:20. > :28:25.rock... # Hash

:28:26. > :28:29.Fly me to the moon and let me play upon the stars... # It gives me

:28:29. > :28:39.great pleasure to inaugurate this terminal and to name this building

:28:39. > :28:49.

:28:49. > :28:53.in which we are now standing the And to be in with a chance of

:28:53. > :29:03.winning that mug, without the kangaroo urine in it, send your

:29:03. > :29:05.

:29:05. > :29:11.answer to our special e-mail address: If they want the kangaroo

:29:11. > :29:16.stuff they can have it. No. It's coming up to midday here. We'll see

:29:16. > :29:20.Big Ben behind us. There it is. Quite a nice, sunny day, but crisp

:29:20. > :29:30.and cold. The B division on Prime Minister's questions, but not here,

:29:30. > :29:32.

:29:32. > :29:38.we have the A team. I'm going to walk off. Here today, gone tomorrow.

:29:38. > :29:44.Go on. I just called you the A team and all I'm getting is abuse. Right,

:29:44. > :29:49.so we have Harriet Harman and William Hague. Nick Clegg. That

:29:49. > :29:54.means that the opposition will be questions by which I mean

:29:54. > :30:02.Conservative backbenchers. It might be interesting. The dynamic today

:30:02. > :30:06.is less likely to be focused on Nick Clegg, but more on whether

:30:06. > :30:08.Tory backbenchers choose to use it as a opportunity to talk about

:30:08. > :30:11.boundaries, which is an argument barely noticed outside Westminster,

:30:11. > :30:14.but still going on inside the Palace of Westminster or whether

:30:14. > :30:18.they use the opportunity to try and humiliate and embarrass Nick Clegg,

:30:18. > :30:21.because one of the striking things earlier in the year and I think

:30:21. > :30:28.there have been huge consequences for the relationship between Nick

:30:28. > :30:32.Clegg and the Conservatives on this, was when Tory backbenchers richly

:30:32. > :30:40.humiliated him on reform of the House of Lords. There are always

:30:40. > :30:45.quopbs quepbss. -- consequences. It seems to me they are quite restless

:30:45. > :30:49.and a lot of rebelled and they see Nick Clegg as the problem or part

:30:49. > :30:53.of the problem on Europe and they have heard his speech last week, in

:30:53. > :30:56.which he was smearing about a promise wrapped in a Union Jack. He

:30:56. > :31:00.called it a false promise. Quite tempting to do that, but like all

:31:00. > :31:04.of us they will be thinking Obama, and know that the Prime Minister is

:31:04. > :31:07.not there. How will that play out? You have had the results in

:31:07. > :31:10.everybody's mind and they will overshadow the questions today?

:31:10. > :31:13.will. Everyone is making calculations about what they mean.

:31:13. > :31:18.I heard you talking about it in terms of the lessons about women

:31:18. > :31:23.voters. I think an incumbent as one is a big deal if you are David

:31:23. > :31:33.Cameron. They've been losing again and again. Somebody won. Straight

:31:33. > :31:36.

:31:36. > :31:42.Mr Speaker, the House will wish to join me in paying treub pute to the

:31:42. > :31:51.British soldiers killed in Afghanistan last week. Lieutenant

:31:51. > :31:56.Edward Drummond Baxter and Lance Corporal Siddhanta Kunwar. Our

:31:56. > :32:00.condolences are with the friends and family. With remembrance day on

:32:00. > :32:04.Sunday we are reminded of the remarkable job the armed forces do

:32:04. > :32:13.to ensure our safety and security. Furthermore, the House will wish to

:32:13. > :32:15.Black, the Northern Ireland Prison Service officer, who was shot and

:32:15. > :32:19.killed last Friday. As my honourable friend the Secretary of

:32:19. > :32:23.State for Northern Ireland said on Friday, we utterly condemn this

:32:23. > :32:27.cowardly crime. Our thoughts are with David's wife and children at

:32:27. > :32:33.this distressing time. Mr Speaker, I am sure also the House will want

:32:33. > :32:36.to join me in congratulating President Obama on his election

:32:36. > :32:41.victory last night. I suspect that's the only point I will be

:32:41. > :32:44.cheered today by the benches opposite! We look forward to

:32:44. > :32:47.continuing the Government's work with him in building a more

:32:47. > :32:49.prosperous, a more free and stable world. Mr Speaker, this morning I

:32:49. > :32:54.had meetings with Ministerial colleagues and others in addition

:32:54. > :32:58.to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later

:32:58. > :33:01.today. May I fully associate myself with the sincere tribute paid to

:33:01. > :33:04.the two fallen servicemen and to David Black. It's right this House

:33:04. > :33:08.pays tribute to those who have fallen in the service of our

:33:08. > :33:13.country, never more so than in the week of Remembrance Sunday. May I

:33:13. > :33:23.also say that President Obama will be relieved to get the support of

:33:23. > :33:25.

:33:25. > :33:29.Mr Speaker, the former Metropolitan Police Commissioner Lord Steven has

:33:29. > :33:33.said police morale is at national crisis levels. Is he right and why

:33:33. > :33:42.is that the case? Mr Speaker, as he will also know,

:33:42. > :33:46.the latest figures show that overall crime is down by 6%. Victim

:33:46. > :33:51.satisfaction with the police has actually gone up. Response times to

:33:51. > :33:55.emergency calls has been maintained or improved. Crime has fallen

:33:55. > :33:58.presipively in his own constituency. When will he congratulate the

:33:58. > :34:03.police rather than denigrate the police on doing a difficult job

:34:03. > :34:13.dealing with savings, as everybody has to, whilst keeping the public

:34:13. > :34:15.

:34:15. > :34:20.safe? Does my honourable friend agree with the German finance

:34:20. > :34:24.Minister calling on the OECD to tackle the challenge of corporate

:34:24. > :34:28.tax avoidance by multinational companies?

:34:28. > :34:34.I am sure everybody will warmly welcome the work the Chancellor is

:34:34. > :34:40.now doing with the finance department and the finance ministry

:34:40. > :34:43.in Berlin to crack down on what was industrial-scale tax avoidance by

:34:43. > :34:50.large corporate entities in this country and elsewhere allowed to go

:34:50. > :34:55.on unchecked under 13 years of the Labour Government. Harriet Harman.

:34:55. > :35:01.Mr Speaker, can I join the Deputy Prime Minister in expressing our

:35:01. > :35:10.deepest condolences for the death of Lieutenant Edward Drummond

:35:10. > :35:14.Baxter and Lance Lance Corporal Siddhanta Kunwar and at remembrance

:35:14. > :35:18.services this Sunday we will remember not just those who died in

:35:18. > :35:20.the two two world wars but all our servicemen and women who have lost

:35:20. > :35:24.their lives. We accepted our deepest sympathy to the family of

:35:24. > :35:29.David Black of the Northern Ireland Prison Service, who was killed last

:35:29. > :35:32.Friday. Mr Speaker, can I also join the Deputy Prime Minister in

:35:33. > :35:37.offering our warmest contkpwrt hraeugss to the -- congratulations

:35:37. > :35:41.to the President of the United States, Barack Obama. This morning,

:35:41. > :35:49.he spoke of his determination to create more jobs, healthcare for

:35:49. > :35:54.all and tackling the scourge of inequality. We wish him well. Mr

:35:54. > :35:58.Speaker, Lord Justice Leveson will be publishing his report and

:35:58. > :36:02.recommendations soon. The Deputy Prime Minister said that provided

:36:02. > :36:06.Lord Justice Leveson's proposals are proportional and workable, the

:36:06. > :36:10.Government should implement them and we agree. So when Leveson's

:36:10. > :36:16.report is published, will the Government convene cross-party

:36:16. > :36:20.talks to take it forward? We need a strong, free press and we also need

:36:20. > :36:27.a proper system to protect people from being, as the Prime Minister

:36:27. > :36:30.said, thrown to the wolves. I agree with much of what she said

:36:30. > :36:35.about Leveson. If his proposals - we haven't seen them yet, we need

:36:35. > :36:40.to wait and see, are workable, we should seek to support them. Of

:36:40. > :36:44.course, that's the whole point of the exercise. I also agree with her

:36:44. > :36:48.that we should work on a cross- party basis where we can, this is a

:36:48. > :36:52.major, major issue which escapes the normal kind of tribal point-

:36:52. > :36:56.scoring in party politics. There are two principles, both of which

:36:56. > :37:01.she alludes to. Firstly, that we must do everything to ensure that

:37:01. > :37:05.we maintain a free, raubgous independent press, it's what makes

:37:05. > :37:11.our democracy in a country what it is. But also make sure that the

:37:11. > :37:14.vulnerable are protected from abuse by the powerful. That happened on

:37:14. > :37:19.an unacceptable scale and on too many occasions. We need to be able

:37:19. > :37:22.to look the parents of Millie Dowler in the eye and say that in

:37:22. > :37:27.future there will be permanently independent forms of recourse,

:37:27. > :37:32.sanction and accountability when things go wrong in the future.

:37:32. > :37:36.I thank him for that answer. We must have a press which reports the

:37:36. > :37:39.truth without fear or favour. But after all the evidence that came

:37:39. > :37:44.out during the inquiry, particularly as he says, from the

:37:44. > :37:47.Dowlers and the McCanns, we simply can't continue with the status quo.

:37:47. > :37:52.A press complaints system where a publication can simply walk away

:37:52. > :37:56.from the system and a system that is run by the press. Will the

:37:56. > :38:03.Deputy Prime Minister agree that a version of business as usual will

:38:03. > :38:07.simply not do and it would be a derelicion of our duty to allow the

:38:07. > :38:09.report to be kicked into the long grass? I think everybody accepts

:38:09. > :38:13.whatever their individual views about this, that business as usual

:38:13. > :38:16.is simply not acceptable. The status quo has failed and it's

:38:16. > :38:21.failed over and over again. The model of self-regulation that we

:38:21. > :38:25.have seen over the last several years has not worked when things

:38:25. > :38:28.have gone wrong. I agree with the premise upon which we in the

:38:28. > :38:31.Government actually created the Leveson Inquiry which is to seek

:38:31. > :38:37.out recommendations for change. That's the whole point of the

:38:37. > :38:41.Leveson Inquiry. I look forward to all of us having the opportunity to

:38:41. > :38:46.work together in the public interest to get this right. Now, Mr

:38:46. > :38:52.Speaker, this week the Deputy Prime Minister sent an e-mail to his

:38:53. > :38:57.party members. In it he describes the task of finding child care as a

:38:57. > :39:01.real nightmare. Isn't it clear that cutting the child care element of

:39:01. > :39:06.tax credits has made that nightmare worse for for parents? I tell you

:39:06. > :39:10.what I think has helped many people who have to - struggle to make ends

:39:10. > :39:13.meet and pay for child care is the fact this Government that is

:39:13. > :39:16.providing 15 hours of free pre- school support and child care to

:39:16. > :39:19.every three and four-year-old in the country, no Government's done

:39:19. > :39:23.that before. It's this Government, as of next April, that will be

:39:23. > :39:26.providing 15 hours of pre-school support and child care to some of

:39:26. > :39:29.the poorest two-year-olds in the country. No other Government has

:39:29. > :39:34.done that before. It is this Government that is taking two

:39:34. > :39:40.million people on low pay out of paying any income tax altogether.

:39:40. > :39:49.That's the record I am proud of. The Deputy Prime Minister has shown

:39:49. > :39:53.himself to be completely out of touch. The reality is that many

:39:53. > :39:58.part-time working parents are having to give up their job because

:39:58. > :40:03.of the cuts in tax credits and having instead to be on benefits. I

:40:03. > :40:10.asked him about the child care elements of the tax credits and he

:40:10. > :40:17.hasn't answered. Why won't he admit the cut he voted for has cost

:40:17. > :40:22.families �500 and 44,000 families are losing out? If If that wasn't

:40:22. > :40:27.bad enough they're cutting from Sure Start. In his e-mail he said

:40:27. > :40:31.he was going to reveal... Order. I know that the Junior Minister in

:40:31. > :40:36.the back row thinks that her views are relevant, not interested. Order.

:40:36. > :40:43.I don't want heckling. I want the question to be heard and it will be

:40:43. > :40:47.heard with courtesy. If the session has to to be extended, so be it.

:40:47. > :40:54.Thank you. I am beginning to have quite a lot of sympathy with the

:40:54. > :40:59.honourable member for mid- Bedfordshire. All those rats and

:41:00. > :41:07.snakes and that was even before she went to the jungle. In the Deputy

:41:07. > :41:12.Prime Minister's e-mail he said he was going to reveal... Mr Speak.

:41:12. > :41:16.Order. I have made the point once. I am going to make it only once

:41:16. > :41:19.more. Mr McCartney, your heckling is not wanted. It doesn't help.

:41:19. > :41:22.Stop it. And stop it for the remainder of this session and in

:41:22. > :41:26.the future. I have made the position clear. Harriet Harman.

:41:26. > :41:31.Thank you, Mr Speaker. In the Deputy Prime Minister's e-mail he

:41:31. > :41:35.said he was going to reveal what really goes on behind those

:41:35. > :41:39.Whitehall doors. Perhaps in his next week's instalment he will tell

:41:39. > :41:47.the truth, under his Government families are worse off, aren't

:41:47. > :41:51.they? As of next April, because of one of the most radical tax changes

:41:51. > :41:58.interviewsed by any Government in living memory, 24 million basic

:41:58. > :42:02.rate taxpayers will be �550 better off. That is a radical change I am

:42:02. > :42:07.very proud of. I am proud of the fact that three and four-year-olds

:42:07. > :42:11.are going to benefit from changes, two yearlies are going to -- two

:42:11. > :42:16.yearlies are -- two-year-olds are going to benefit. Tax credits are

:42:16. > :42:20.not the best answers, for many families so yes I accept we need to

:42:20. > :42:23.do more to make child care affordable so more women can get

:42:24. > :42:27.back into work at an earlier stage, that is what this Government is

:42:27. > :42:34.setting about doing. While we are also cleaning up the mess left

:42:34. > :42:38.behind by her. He comes to the despatch box and says one thing but

:42:39. > :42:44.he does something completely different and he is at it again on

:42:44. > :42:49.the police. Two years ago, he made a solemn election pledge that the

:42:49. > :42:58.Lib Dems would provide 3,000 more police officers but there aren't

:42:58. > :43:02.more. There are 6,800 fewer. It's tuition feess all over again. Why

:43:02. > :43:12.should anyone trust the Lib Dems on policing? At least they can trust

:43:12. > :43:14.

:43:14. > :43:20.this side of the House with the economy. Let me explain.

:43:20. > :43:26.Mr Speaker, let me explain. The Shadow Chancellor's not here...

:43:26. > :43:35.Order. The right honourable gentleman is in danger of being

:43:35. > :43:43.heckled noisously and stupidly by both sides. The right honourable

:43:43. > :43:48.gentleman's answer will be heard, however long it takes. I am used to

:43:48. > :43:52.getting it from both sides. The Shadow Chancellor is not here but

:43:52. > :43:56.just to underline the point, last year in a television interview he

:43:56. > :44:00.denied that there was a structural deficit while Labour was in power.

:44:00. > :44:05.Last month in another television interview he denied the denial. So

:44:05. > :44:09.now that we have the Shadow Chancellor briefing against himself

:44:09. > :44:16.in television interviews, how on earth is anyone going to have faith

:44:16. > :44:19.that this lot can sort out the economy? People know they can't

:44:19. > :44:22.trust - people are finding they can't trust this Government object

:44:22. > :44:28.the -- on the economy because of the Government he supports we have

:44:28. > :44:33.lost two years of economic growth and borrowing is going up. I don't

:44:33. > :44:38.know why they're so cheerful about - why they're so cheerful about the

:44:38. > :44:42.cuts in police numbers. They might not be bothered, but their

:44:42. > :44:46.constituents certainly are. It's always the same with the Lib Dems,

:44:46. > :44:50.you can't trust them on tuition fees, on child care, and when it

:44:50. > :44:56.comes to voting next week people will remember you certainly can't

:44:56. > :45:00.trust them on the police. What about her promise of no boom and

:45:00. > :45:05.bust? What happened to that one? This coalition has now been in

:45:05. > :45:08.power for two and a half years and in those years we have given 24

:45:08. > :45:12.million basic rate taxpayers an income tax cut and taken two

:45:12. > :45:16.million people on low pay out of paying income tax cut, we have cut

:45:16. > :45:20.the deficit by a quarter, reformed welfare. What has she and her

:45:20. > :45:24.colleagues done? What have they done? Gone on a few marches, denied

:45:24. > :45:28.any responsibility for the mess we are in and they haven't even filled

:45:28. > :45:33.in their blank sheet of paper where there should be policies. She might

:45:33. > :45:43.be hoping for some bad news, to make her point in this country. We

:45:43. > :45:49.

:45:49. > :45:52.are sorting out the mess she left Moving on, as we must, I would echo

:45:52. > :45:56.the Deputy Prime Minister's comments on the US election and

:45:56. > :46:01.congratulate Barack Obama. It's always good to see a leader re-

:46:01. > :46:06.elected in difficult times. Would the Deputy Prime Minister agree

:46:06. > :46:10.with me that alongside new and emerging markets, Britain should

:46:11. > :46:16.seek to strengthen our trade ties with the US through a new trade

:46:16. > :46:23.deal as we seek to boost our recovery and start one across the

:46:23. > :46:27.Channel? The lesson of the election in the States is that voters'

:46:27. > :46:30.memories are longer than members opposite seem to think, because

:46:30. > :46:36.voters when it comes to casting a vote remember who created the mess

:46:36. > :46:42.in the first place and who has to do the painstaking, difficult, and

:46:42. > :46:44.yes, longer-than-we-hoped job. There is so much we need to do to

:46:44. > :46:49.work together with the new administration. He talks about

:46:49. > :46:54.trade. I would like to see a new EU and US Free Trade Agreement to

:46:54. > :46:57.create a spur to economic growth. I was delighted to here also

:46:58. > :47:01.overnight that the President actually single out his commitment

:47:01. > :47:09.to dealing with climate change, another area where we can work

:47:09. > :47:14.together with them. The Deputy Prime Minister tells us that he

:47:14. > :47:21.supports the living wage and the increase announced on Monday. Can

:47:21. > :47:28.he tell us how many Lib Dem councils pay the living wage?

:47:28. > :47:30.she knows, her own leader - THE SPEAKER: The honourable lady has

:47:30. > :47:38.asked the Deputy Prime Minister. I hope members will have the courtesy

:47:38. > :47:41.to hear the answer. I certainly want to hear it. The her own leader

:47:41. > :47:47.has said this is a voluntary process and we need to encourage

:47:47. > :47:50.employers to pay the living wage. No-one will disagree with the idea

:47:50. > :47:56.of a living wage, where people are paid a fair wage for a fair day's

:47:56. > :47:59.work. There's a lot of extra work to be done to make this a reality,

:47:59. > :48:02.but guess what, it's this Government, because of our tax

:48:02. > :48:10.changes, that mean that as of next April someone working on the

:48:10. > :48:15.minimum wage will have their income tax cut by half. The tragic death

:48:15. > :48:21.of private David Lee Collins while off duty in Cyprus is a devastating

:48:21. > :48:24.blow to his mother, my constituent and to family and friends in the

:48:24. > :48:29.constituency and across Manchester. Will the Deputy Prime Minister

:48:29. > :48:32.assure me that the Foreign Office and the MoD are working with

:48:32. > :48:39.Cypriot authorities to ensure that the perpetrators are brought to

:48:39. > :48:43.justice? I think everybody - our hearts go out to the mother and

:48:43. > :48:46.indeed the other family and friends of David Lee Collins who came to

:48:46. > :48:52.such an untimely death in the way that he described. It's obviously

:48:52. > :48:56.right for him to raise this issue on behalf of the family. I can

:48:56. > :48:59.certainly assure him that the MoD and the Foreign Office will do

:48:59. > :49:01.everything they can to find out exactly what happened and bring the

:49:01. > :49:10.perpetrators to justice and I'm sure the Secretary of State for

:49:10. > :49:17.Defence, who is here, will seek to keep him updated as things esolve.

:49:17. > :49:19.-- evolve. Crops were destroyed in the devastating floods that

:49:19. > :49:23.devastated my constituency last month, warnings that we face

:49:23. > :49:30.another winter of floods. The Government promised to binning

:49:30. > :49:36.forward plans for a new deal on flood insurance in July. My worried

:49:36. > :49:40.constituents are still waiting. When will this incompetent and out-

:49:40. > :49:46.of-touch government actually act on making sure that ordinary families

:49:46. > :49:52.and businesses are protected from flooding or will in the end this be

:49:52. > :49:58.another broken promise? She packed in every soundbite into that one!

:49:58. > :50:01.Mr Speaker, we are involved in very detailed discussions with the

:50:01. > :50:07.insurance industry, precisely to provide her constituents with the

:50:07. > :50:10.reassurances that they rightly seek. I only point out that that was a --

:50:10. > :50:13.an agreement that was never reached in the 13 years in which Labour was

:50:13. > :50:17.in power. We are doing that work now. It's complicated and it's very

:50:17. > :50:21.important and we are devoted a lot of attention to it and I hope we'll

:50:21. > :50:25.be able to make an announce in the not too distant future. Thousands

:50:25. > :50:29.of people are being killed in Syria each month and the suffering of

:50:29. > :50:33.their people is immense. Sources within the country say that British

:50:33. > :50:37.assistance has been slow and that the priority ought to be supporting

:50:37. > :50:42.the civil administration councils, so that basic water and sewage

:50:42. > :50:44.services can be connected. What more can the Prime Minister do to

:50:44. > :50:51.discuss with President Obama to really bring about a solution to

:50:51. > :50:57.this crisis? I know that the Prime Minister, who is in the region

:50:57. > :51:02.right now, discusses this on an on- going basis with the President and

:51:02. > :51:04.will continue to do so. We are the second-largest bilateral donor in

:51:04. > :51:09.Syria. The circumstances are incredibly difficult for the

:51:09. > :51:13.delivery of aid and eansance, but we need to make every -- assistance,

:51:13. > :51:17.but we need to make every effort to accelerate. Any suggestions he

:51:17. > :51:24.wishes to make to the Department for International Development and

:51:24. > :51:29.others, about how we do that, will be well received. Official

:51:29. > :51:34.documents show the health reviews best option is downgrading

:51:34. > :51:40.Kettering General Hospital's A&E, maternity, children and acute

:51:40. > :51:47.services and cutting 550 of the 658 beds. How can anyone believe the

:51:47. > :51:54.Prime Minister when he claims those NHS services are safe in his hands?

:51:54. > :52:00.I find it extraordinary she persists in this wilful

:52:00. > :52:05.scaremongering. She plucks out the worst-case, whereas she knows, no

:52:05. > :52:09.decision has been taken. Instead, of frightening people about what is

:52:09. > :52:13.happening in the NHS, why doesn't she celebrate the great work of our

:52:13. > :52:17.nurses and doctors and our other clinicians in the NHS, who are

:52:17. > :52:24.delivering an absolute world-class service for the people of Kettering,

:52:24. > :52:26.Corby and elsewhere? Could the Deputy Prime Minister confirm the

:52:26. > :52:34.Government's commitments to marine renewable energy, especially in the

:52:34. > :52:40.south-west? I think this is clearly an area where the south-west has a

:52:40. > :52:43.natural advantage and it's one of the many areas which are reflected

:52:43. > :52:47.in the diverse approach to renewable energy generation in the

:52:47. > :52:54.future, because we have to wean ourselves off an overreliance on

:52:54. > :52:59.one kind of energy and spread our bets more fairly in the future.

:52:59. > :53:03.only is it Obama day, but it's adoption week. My ten-minute rule

:53:03. > :53:07.bill in the last sessions called for equalising statutory rights for

:53:07. > :53:11.leave, pay and allowances between adoptive parents and parents who

:53:11. > :53:15.are born to them. This can be done by regulations. Could the dep my

:53:15. > :53:20.Prime Minister ask a minister or two -- Deputy Prime Minister ask a

:53:20. > :53:24.minister or two to meet with me to eliminate this unfairness? I will

:53:24. > :53:29.make sure. I would like to pay tribute to her for her London-

:53:29. > :53:32.standing campaign to equalise the rights of parents of adopted

:53:32. > :53:36.children to equalise that and with other parents. It's something I

:53:36. > :53:40.believe should be the case. It's something we have been looking at

:53:40. > :53:44.closely. I hope we'll be able to make an announcement on that issue

:53:44. > :53:49.in the not too distant future. the Deputy Prime Minister aclear

:53:49. > :53:53.that the Chancellor's initiative to get the OECD to crack down on

:53:53. > :53:59.international tax avoidance is all the more important when corporation

:53:59. > :54:02.tax went up 6% in the last ten years, but income tax receipts

:54:03. > :54:07.doubled? Yes, it's quite right that the Treasury and the Chancellor

:54:07. > :54:10.have been so keen in providing further resources to ensure that

:54:10. > :54:16.the teams in Whitehall, the HMRC and elsewhere, would crack down on

:54:16. > :54:20.this, are able to do that. The figures that we hope we'll be able

:54:20. > :54:24.to recoup in tax paid that otherwise would have been avoided

:54:24. > :54:34.are eye-watering. Billions of pounds of tax will come in the

:54:34. > :54:44.vaults of the treasury which would either wise have gone walk-about.

:54:44. > :54:49.

:54:49. > :54:56.Norway, Sweden and Denmark hold the top three spots in the last quarter,

:54:56. > :55:02.so will the Deputy Prime Minister take the opportunity to

:55:02. > :55:06.congratulate these countries on their energy results? Last time I

:55:06. > :55:11.looked it was to include Iceland, but now it doesn't. What is he

:55:11. > :55:21.going to do next, pick owl Malaysia? Or Indonesia? Try be pour

:55:21. > :55:23.

:55:23. > :55:26.consistent, please. -- more consist ten, please. Does the -- consistent,

:55:26. > :55:31.please. Does the Deputy Prime Minister expect to be involved in

:55:31. > :55:39.the selection process for the EU commissioner? I won't be a

:55:39. > :55:44.candidate however much he might hope otherwise! The Deputy Prime

:55:44. > :55:49.Minister's predecessor and mine is Labour's excellent candidate in the

:55:49. > :55:54.police and crime commissioner elections in Humberside. But the

:55:54. > :55:59.Tory candidate describes the role as the job from hell. Does the

:55:59. > :56:07.Deputy Prime Minister agree with his Tory colleague or does he think

:56:07. > :56:11.that personally he has it harder? On the issue of the the

:56:11. > :56:15.commissioner elections, I'm not going to try to compare notes with

:56:15. > :56:20.my predecessor, but I hope everybody will turn out to vote.

:56:20. > :56:25.The fact there are so many has-been politicians who are standing might

:56:25. > :56:29.put quite a lot of people off, but I hope none theless they will

:56:30. > :56:33.participate in the important elections. -- none the less they

:56:33. > :56:39.will participate in the important elections. Last week, Stephen

:56:39. > :56:45.farerer was sentenced to life for the brutal murder of my constituent

:56:45. > :56:50.and a form by -- another resident, so will the Deputy Prime Minister

:56:50. > :56:56.thank the police for their speedy and successful conclusion in this

:56:56. > :57:06.case and sending our deepest condolences to the families?

:57:06. > :57:08.

:57:08. > :57:11.sure the whole House wishes to join in with the wishes to the family

:57:11. > :57:14.and friends. The police moved very fast. It's very important in cases

:57:15. > :57:21.like this that the public sees where possible justice is done, but

:57:21. > :57:25.justice is done as rapidly as possible. Can the Deputy Prime

:57:25. > :57:31.Minister explain to the House why the Liberal Democrats are fielding

:57:31. > :57:35.only 21 candidates out of 44 in the crime commissioners' elections?

:57:35. > :57:45.Because we are standing in those areas where Liberal Democrats will

:57:45. > :57:48.to stand. I know the party opposite doesn't understand the meaning of

:57:48. > :57:58.the word internal party democracy, but it's something I'm very proud

:57:58. > :58:01.we have and he should try it some day. There are obscene bonuses and

:58:01. > :58:04.there is the biggest divide between the rich and the poor, so can hi

:58:04. > :58:08.right honourable friend make clear it's the overriding ambition of

:58:08. > :58:13.Government to deliver a fairer Britain and one of the ways of

:58:13. > :58:19.doing it is affordable housing and social, rented housing which

:58:19. > :58:24.delivers both fairness and growth? Yes, and that's why it's so

:58:24. > :58:30.important that we are committed to a �20 billion worth of investment

:58:30. > :58:33.into affordable housing, generating tens of thousands of more homes so

:58:33. > :58:37.families have an affordable home they can call their own and also I

:58:37. > :58:40.would draw his attention to the significance of the announcement

:58:40. > :58:49.made by the Secretary of State for Local Governmant yesterday, that we

:58:50. > :58:53.will be looking at doubling the amount of -- of funds that can be

:58:53. > :58:56.used to invest up to �22 billion of extra money into local

:58:56. > :59:04.infrastructure. That's the way to make the country fair and get the

:59:04. > :59:10.economy moving. Can I join in the tribute to the two soldiers and

:59:10. > :59:16.David Black who gave their lives last week? Tomorrow morning will

:59:16. > :59:20.mark the anniversary of the Poppy Day massacre in Enniskillen. This

:59:20. > :59:24.week, the police have received a new line of inquiry. Will the

:59:24. > :59:29.Deputy Prime Minister join with me in echoing the survivors' call for

:59:29. > :59:33.justice and for new information to be brought forward? I'm sure he

:59:33. > :59:39.speaks on behalf of all of us that we should pause and reflect on the

:59:40. > :59:43.terrible suffering of those who now have to relive 25 years later, the

:59:43. > :59:45.memories of that terrible atrocity and those who were killed, injured

:59:45. > :59:49.and maimed. I know that the Secretary of State for Northern

:59:49. > :59:53.Ireland will be attending the anniversary event. This is an

:59:53. > :59:56.extremely difficult week for all those who suffered at that time and

:59:56. > :00:00.have had to live with the memories ever since. Yes, of course, I can

:00:00. > :00:03.confirm that where there are new leads and new evidence that that

:00:03. > :00:09.will be pursued rigorously and will provide all support in order to

:00:09. > :00:12.make sure that is the case. Under the previous Government, officials

:00:12. > :00:15.used discretion to refuse to provide information to people who

:00:15. > :00:18.were brought up in case. Will the Deputy Prime Minister look to open

:00:18. > :00:25.the files so people who are brought up in care can find out what

:00:25. > :00:29.happened to them? I certainly they he's right in saying that all of us

:00:29. > :00:33.given the daily drip, drip effect of the horrific revelations that

:00:33. > :00:36.seem to get worse every day and seem to be taking place on a scale

:00:36. > :00:41.that before now was unimaginable, that we send out a clear message

:00:41. > :00:45.from all sides to any victim, who is sitting at home, alone, still

:00:45. > :00:48.harbouring the terrible memories and terrible suffering that he

:00:48. > :00:52.endured, that this is the time for them to speak up and for them to

:00:52. > :00:56.come forward. We'll help them. We'll reach out to them and make

:00:56. > :01:00.sure that their suffering is atoned for and where we can find those who

:01:00. > :01:05.have perpetrated these terrible abuses, that they're brought to

:01:05. > :01:09.justice, even several years since they might have occurred.

:01:09. > :01:13.Scotland's First Minister has misled the public on legal advice

:01:13. > :01:17.that doesn't exist, rewritten the Ministerial Code for his own gain

:01:17. > :01:21.and there are strong suggestions that he will ignore the Electoral

:01:21. > :01:25.Commission in the upcoming referendum. People in Scotland are

:01:25. > :01:29.losing faith in the First Minister and this Government are in danger

:01:29. > :01:34.of being complicit in yet another muddle. Does the Deputy Prime

:01:34. > :01:38.Minister trust the First Minister to deliver a favour, legal and

:01:38. > :01:43.decisive referendum on separation? As I hope she would be prepared to

:01:43. > :01:45.recognise, we have been working on a cross-party basis, particularly

:01:45. > :01:50.between the parties that believe in the maintenance of the family of

:01:50. > :01:55.the nations of the United Kingdom to ensure that there is a fair,

:01:55. > :01:59.legal and decisive vote in the referendum. I certainly agree with

:01:59. > :02:03.her characterisation. The spectical of the SNP administration using

:02:03. > :02:07.taxpayers' money to stop disclosure to the public of legal advice that

:02:07. > :02:14.was never sought, honestly you couldn't make it up. It's like

:02:14. > :02:19.dropping Iceland from the arc of prosperity. Rising prices to keep

:02:19. > :02:21.their homes warm and driver their cars are putting pressures on rural

:02:21. > :02:26.areas. What will my friend be taking to make the tax system

:02:26. > :02:31.fairer and put more money in the pockets the people on lower and

:02:31. > :02:35.middle incomes? That is precisely why the centrepiece tax reform of

:02:35. > :02:41.this Government is a radical one to lift the point at which people

:02:41. > :02:47.start paying tax, up to �10,000. From the �6,400 when we took over

:02:47. > :02:50.from Labour. And that, when we deliver that, will deliver a �700

:02:50. > :02:55.tax cut to over 24 million people in this country, including in his

:02:55. > :03:00.constituency. It's something we should celebrate. Bearing in mind

:03:00. > :03:04.we were selling arms to the Gaddafi regime right up to the uprising, is

:03:04. > :03:08.the Deputy Prime Minister pleased that the Prime Minister's busy now

:03:09. > :03:13.selling arms to Saudi Arabia? A country where human rights is non-

:03:13. > :03:22.existent and amputations and floggings take place frequently and

:03:22. > :03:26.we know how women are treated there. Is that Liberal Democrat policy?

:03:26. > :03:30.have the strictest of controls of almost every economy in the world,

:03:31. > :03:35.goching the conditions in which we can sell arms to others --

:03:35. > :03:41.governing the conditions in which we sell arms to others. Nothing we

:03:41. > :03:44.can do impedes our ability to tell allies and other governments where

:03:44. > :03:46.we have real concerns of human rights record, about their

:03:46. > :03:55.democratic record and about their civil liberties record and that's

:03:55. > :03:58.exactly what the Prime Minister's been doing this week. I sometimes

:03:58. > :04:03.think the Deputy Prime Minister would like to send me to a jungle

:04:03. > :04:07.in Australia for a month, but would he agree with me that one two

:04:07. > :04:11.different parties get together in the national interest to clear up

:04:11. > :04:15.the mess that Labour have left us, we are doing the right thing and in

:04:15. > :04:24.particular, driving unemployment down? Can I pick up one

:04:24. > :04:30.constituency, in Corby it went down 4.6% last month. For the first time

:04:30. > :04:33.in my Parliamentary career I wholeheartedly agree with him.

:04:33. > :04:38.Let's treasure this moment, because I suspect it will be very, very

:04:38. > :04:43.rare indeed, but like him, when I heard that the honourable member

:04:43. > :04:50.for Mid-Bedfordshire had been sent to a jungle to eat insects, I

:04:50. > :04:55.thought that despite the appearance of civil ilt, it indicates a new

:04:55. > :05:05.discipline in our Whips' Office. We are doing a great job together to

:05:05. > :05:12.

:05:12. > :05:19.create jobs in the future and Nick Clegg without any notes taking

:05:19. > :05:26.on all-comers, almost thrown at the end by a friendly question! Not

:05:26. > :05:28.usually very friendly towards the be happy with that performance. He

:05:28. > :05:32.seemed particularly raoeuled by questions -- riled by questions

:05:32. > :05:36.from the Labour side. Harriet Harman began interestingly on the

:05:36. > :05:39.Leveson report, really saying - Labour have committed themselves to

:05:39. > :05:45.supporting whatever Leveson comes up with. Would the Deputy Prime

:05:45. > :05:48.Minister do the same, knowing that Mr Cameron has a few problems if

:05:48. > :05:52.Leveson comes out with statutory regulation. We are going to hear

:05:52. > :05:56.what our experts thought of it. We are going to hear from our e-mails

:05:56. > :06:01.first. They weren't overly impressed, the

:06:01. > :06:06.viewers. There were some who said, as David said, Nick Clegg seemed to

:06:06. > :06:10.handle himself well. Harriet Harman was clumsy in and the questions

:06:10. > :06:18.were too long. Bill in Doncaster, second division affair. Nick Clegg

:06:18. > :06:22.is not a patch on William Hague and Harriet Harman will insist on

:06:22. > :06:25.scripted jokes. Alan said, new faces at PMQs but same old

:06:25. > :06:29.accusations. It's Labour's fault after being half-way through a

:06:29. > :06:35.parliament when does this Government accept blame? Tom, after

:06:35. > :06:39.the opening gambit I thought what a pleasure to see a constructive and

:06:39. > :06:43.well-intentioned PMQs, within seconds it towards into a farce

:06:43. > :06:46.worse than any I have ever seen. This is not the face of British

:06:46. > :06:49.politics that should be seen throughout the world. Frederick

:06:49. > :06:53.said, is that a Deputy Prime Minister at the despatch box or a

:06:53. > :06:57.puppet version of David Cameron? If he reiterates any more of the

:06:57. > :07:02.ancient history about the mess Labour left behind, then he should

:07:02. > :07:05.be confined to a history book. Take that, Mr Clegg. The coalition's

:07:05. > :07:09.gone through a rough patch over House of Lords reform, over

:07:09. > :07:12.attitude to wind power, it's divided them, as well. There is a

:07:12. > :07:16.big issue looming in the autumn statement of where will the extra

:07:16. > :07:22.cuts come from, as well, and still the Lib Dems would like to see some

:07:22. > :07:25.extra tax on the very wealthy. Is Leveson now another issue that's

:07:25. > :07:32.going to divide the coalition? and potentially the most serious

:07:32. > :07:35.for them, I think. Leveson feels to me a bit like a car driving 100mph

:07:35. > :07:38.through a brick wall as far as this Government is concerned. Seems

:07:38. > :07:44.likely, of course we don't know, that Lord Justice Leveson will

:07:44. > :07:47.recommend what is a terrible phrase, statutory underpinning. Tphordz,

:07:47. > :07:51.instead -- in other words, instead of saying a new beefed up

:07:51. > :07:55.independent regulator, but one that the press itself as it were creates,

:07:55. > :07:59.that there should be something in law that at least says such a

:07:59. > :08:03.regulator must exist, that seems to be where the tension is. The Lib

:08:03. > :08:06.Dems clearly would support such an idea. It seems to me increasingly

:08:06. > :08:10.clear that the Conservative side of the coalition will not, although

:08:10. > :08:15.David Cameron's uttered nothing in public, we have seen Michael Gove

:08:15. > :08:18.rubbish the idea and Eric Pickles rubbish the idea. George Osborne

:08:18. > :08:22.would be reluctant about such an idea and David Cameron has to work

:08:22. > :08:25.out what does he do if he doesn't want to implement this, but Nick

:08:25. > :08:31.Clegg does want to implement it. It's going to be a real problem for

:08:31. > :08:34.them. Am I right in saying that the Labour position is now in favour of

:08:34. > :08:38.statutory regulation of the press? I think we think that if there is a

:08:38. > :08:40.way in which we can balance what we cherish, which is the freedom of

:08:40. > :08:44.press in this country compared to other places but have something

:08:44. > :08:48.that's tougher and may need statutory regulation that solves

:08:48. > :08:50.some of the issues that clearly in the past the Press Complaints

:08:50. > :08:53.Commission couldn't do that's something we should be open to

:08:53. > :08:57.discuss and we have to find some way that it's not just business as

:08:57. > :09:04.usual in the way the press has been regulated in the past. Is it not

:09:04. > :09:08.the case that Labour has committed Labour to supporting Leveson,

:09:08. > :09:13.whatever it comes up with. What Harriet actually said was about

:09:13. > :09:17.workable proposals and that - that's what we are looking for.

:09:17. > :09:20.Praing -- practical proposal that is get that balance. For statutory

:09:20. > :09:23.regulation. We do think as it was said there and I have to say there

:09:23. > :09:30.was cross-party agreement, we would like to move forward on a cross-

:09:30. > :09:32.party basis because this is such a big issue. It isn't a

:09:32. > :09:36.straightforward situation to regulate in terms of of protecting

:09:36. > :09:41.the freedoms of the press which are important. It can't be business as

:09:41. > :09:45.usual and we need tougher regulation. Is there a chance of

:09:45. > :09:48.cross-party approval? As Nick was saying, the opinion on the

:09:48. > :09:52.Conservative side seems to be against statutory regulation of the

:09:52. > :09:58.press? And for obvious reasons, because the idea of having a sort

:09:58. > :10:03.of law that says you the press can do this but can't do that, it

:10:03. > :10:06.raises hackles among all Democrats, I would have thought. In principle,

:10:06. > :10:09.there's no reason why it shouldn't proceed on a cross-party basis tpwu

:10:09. > :10:14.does seem, -- but it does seem, I understand Labour's position the

:10:14. > :10:20.same way do you, that whatever Leveson says, they will support.

:10:20. > :10:23.It's sensible to wait and see. I can agree that the Press Complaints

:10:23. > :10:30.Commission has not been ideal, it can't carry on as we have done.

:10:30. > :10:33.say the least! Quite. But there is clearly a way of doing better

:10:33. > :10:37.voluntary regulation and so on. Also, the fact that often gets

:10:37. > :10:41.forgotten is a lot of the worst behaviour of the press in the phone

:10:41. > :10:45.hacking scandal was actually illegal. We do have laws that can

:10:45. > :10:50.be used now because hacking people's phones and so on is

:10:50. > :10:55.breaking the law. Are the Conservatives not faced with a

:10:55. > :10:58.difficulty then if Justice Leveson, as seems likely, will come out for

:10:58. > :11:01.for statutory regulation? I suspect what he will come out with, I don't

:11:01. > :11:07.know any more than anybody else, is something that's slightly more

:11:07. > :11:11.complex. He is a very clever lawyer, therefore... The more complex the

:11:12. > :11:16.more lawyers get big fees. I am not being cynical about lawyers. I am!

:11:16. > :11:19.I am married to one. It's dangerous for me to be cynical about lawyers.

:11:19. > :11:23.I am also the Minister for Criminal Justice. I have a professional

:11:23. > :11:29.interest as well. The last thing we need is complexity. People want to

:11:29. > :11:34.know what their rights are with the press if, -- if the press press

:11:34. > :11:36.behaves, they believe, badly. problem with simplicity is when you

:11:36. > :11:40.try and define it in law, that does get difficult, that's why looking

:11:40. > :11:43.at the details of what Leveson says is a sensible approach. What we are

:11:43. > :11:46.seeing now at the moment is beginning of campaigns building up.

:11:46. > :11:51.There is a new campaign effectively funded and run by the press, it's

:11:51. > :11:55.in particular the Mail and Telegraph in the van guard, for

:11:55. > :12:03.obvious reasons News International don't want to be out tpropb on this

:12:03. > :12:06.issue -- front on this issue. Against any statutory regulation.

:12:06. > :12:10.Interestingly, we are getting the role of the Select Committee on

:12:10. > :12:14.culture media and sport interesting on this, the Tory chairman is

:12:14. > :12:19.opposed. He is supporting the newspapers and opposing statutory

:12:19. > :12:24.regulation. So expect this one to be a real, real fight. The only

:12:24. > :12:28.possible way through I can see for David Cameron, if he wants to be as

:12:28. > :12:31.it were calculated about it, if he thinks that Lord Justice Leveson

:12:31. > :12:35.comes up with a specific idea, all tb not the central one, which is

:12:35. > :12:38.impractical or regarded as silly, in a sense he tries to divert

:12:38. > :12:42.attention and say look at this, this isn't going to work, use the

:12:42. > :12:45.Select Committee perhaps who have talked of having their own hearings

:12:45. > :12:50.into regulation, even the possibility that they call Lord

:12:50. > :12:55.Justice Leveson to give evidence before them about what his own

:12:55. > :12:59.proposals - you can just see how a Government - there's no way David

:12:59. > :13:04.Cameron can dismiss this report. What he is going to be thinking is

:13:04. > :13:08.what do I do to get out of it? we believe that the Leveson will be

:13:08. > :13:11.published before the autumn statement on December... By end of

:13:11. > :13:15.November I am told is the plan. After that he's run out of time. He

:13:15. > :13:18.can't do it the week of the autumn statement. Exactly. By the end of

:13:18. > :13:22.November. It was what I was told yesterday and would you expect him

:13:22. > :13:25.to have his own news conference and to publish his report. But usually

:13:25. > :13:29.the authors of these reports, particularly when they're judges,

:13:29. > :13:33.don't expect to then get themselves dragged in for interviews, let

:13:33. > :13:36.alone a Select Committee hearing in order to justify their proposals.

:13:36. > :13:45.Usually they put them on the table and leave the scene, as it were and

:13:45. > :13:51.lobby privately. A final point, the Tory eurosceptics gave Mr Clegg...

:13:51. > :13:55.A clean ride? Mark Reckless had a sarcastic question about who would

:13:56. > :14:01.replace Kathy Ashton, the joke was maybe you, Nick Clegg. Actually the

:14:01. > :14:05.timings don't work for Mr Clegg to take that job even if he fancies it

:14:05. > :14:15.as an escape route. And that last question, a man who's constantly

:14:15. > :14:17.

:14:17. > :14:25.attacked the coalition. That was about the by-election!

:14:25. > :14:28.Nick, thanks to you for being here. Now it may not quite have the

:14:28. > :14:31.pazazz of the US presidential race, but voters in England and Wales

:14:31. > :14:34.have elections of their own coming up in just a week.

:14:34. > :14:36.Yes, next Thursday they'll be choosing the first ever Police and

:14:36. > :14:38.Crime Commissioners. Intended to make the police more

:14:38. > :14:42.accountable to the public, they've been described by one senior

:14:42. > :14:45.officer as the biggest change to policing since 1829.

:14:45. > :14:52.There are 193 candidates standing for the 41 police forces of England

:14:52. > :14:55.and Wales, excluding London where the mayor already acts as PCC.

:14:55. > :15:00.It was expected that a lot of those candidates would be independent,

:15:00. > :15:02.and 53 are running without the support of a party. But of the main

:15:02. > :15:08.parties, the Conservatives and Labour have put up candidates in

:15:08. > :15:11.all areas, while the Liberal democrats are fielding 24. UKIP

:15:11. > :15:17.also have 24 candidates hoping to enter office, while the English

:15:17. > :15:27.Democrats have 5 and the Green Party 1. A full list of candidates

:15:27. > :15:28.

:15:28. > :15:34.can be found on the BBC website. Joining us now is the cross-bench

:15:34. > :15:37.peer and former senior civil servant Michael Bichard. Much of

:15:37. > :15:40.the criticism seems to be police will focus on antisocial behaviour,

:15:40. > :15:46.for example, what's wrong with that? I don't think anything

:15:46. > :15:50.particularly wrong with that. One of my aerpb concerns is -- my

:15:50. > :15:53.concerns is whether they do that in a co-operative way F you elect an

:15:53. > :15:58.commissioner they're going to want to establish profile, their

:15:58. > :16:01.identity, their own organisation at a time when we need them too be --

:16:01. > :16:04.to be co-operating with other agencies. Look at what happened in

:16:04. > :16:07.Rochdale around child protection when that didn't work well. That

:16:07. > :16:10.worries me. It also worries me whether they're going to co-operate

:16:10. > :16:14.with national forces as effectively as they need to. The police don't

:16:14. > :16:17.have a great track record. That's the crux of matter, how do you stop

:16:18. > :16:21.a police and crime commissioner interfering, if you like, and

:16:21. > :16:26.putting their stamp on an area without taking operational matters

:16:26. > :16:29.away from the police. They are obliged by law to co-operate

:16:29. > :16:33.nationally for the first time we have introduced a strategic

:16:33. > :16:37.policing requirement so for for things like counterterrorism or

:16:37. > :16:41.moving police around if there are riots riots or something there is a

:16:41. > :16:45.requirement to do so. Rochdale is an interesting example because we

:16:45. > :16:49.are seeing - we have these inquiries going on into historic

:16:49. > :16:53.problems, that actually now you have got a democratically elected

:16:53. > :16:56.person who is responsible for overseeing the police force, not

:16:56. > :17:00.running the police force but overseeing it, it will, I hope, be

:17:00. > :17:09.much less likely that things can go on that seem to have gone on in the

:17:09. > :17:12.Where do you draw the line of priorities that are going to be

:17:12. > :17:16.given to the commissioner on operational matters?

:17:16. > :17:21.commissioner will provide the plans and say that he wants to

:17:21. > :17:26.concentrate on drugs in these areas or something like and the Chief

:17:26. > :17:29.Constable says, "OK, fine. I'll allocate officers this way." It

:17:29. > :17:33.won't be the commissioner allocating the officers. If they

:17:33. > :17:39.are saying they want to concentrate on drugs, clamping down on drugs or

:17:39. > :17:47.more police on the beat, or every reported crime should be vez gaited,

:17:47. > :17:49.how does that -- investigated, how does that that not impact on

:17:49. > :17:52.operating areas? They will both obviously have a continuing

:17:52. > :17:56.dialogue about that. But that is healthy, because that's what is

:17:56. > :18:00.suppose today happen now. It just happens with police authorities and

:18:00. > :18:02.the reason - What's the difference? The difference is that we are now

:18:02. > :18:06.discussing it. Nobody in the country can name their Police

:18:06. > :18:10.Authority chair. We have discovered that 7% of people in the country

:18:10. > :18:13.have ever heard of police authorities. There is supposed to

:18:14. > :18:19.be an accountibility mechanism, but this will work. My concern is how

:18:19. > :18:26.do we make them work and reduce the risk. One of the risks I believe is

:18:26. > :18:31.here is that we are going to need clever and good commissioners to

:18:31. > :18:34.avoid problems. If you decide that you want to put more money into

:18:34. > :18:37.burglary when there is no further sources around that comes from

:18:37. > :18:41.somewhere. You'll have to reduce the work you are doing on road

:18:41. > :18:46.traffic. That seems to me to take you into the operational area. I'm

:18:46. > :18:49.not saying we should have these. I'm saying there are some things on

:18:49. > :18:54.the first day that the commissioners look at and one of

:18:54. > :18:59.them is how to avoid the whole thing becoming politicised.

:18:59. > :19:02.Normally people say you are taking your party's view and they won't,

:19:02. > :19:05.but they'll take an independent view, but if you just said you are

:19:05. > :19:08.going to take all the traffic officers away and concentrate on

:19:08. > :19:12.something else, you have got to justify yourself to the people in

:19:12. > :19:19.four years' time and if there's been a massive increase in traffic

:19:19. > :19:23.accidents, then that will act as a contraipbt. It's a constrapbt --

:19:23. > :19:27.constraint. It's a constraint that all politicians have to face.

:19:27. > :19:30.Balls said that it raises the prospect of a politician telling a

:19:31. > :19:35.Chief Constable how to do their job in one way or another, but Labour

:19:35. > :19:38.candidates, if they get elected and I'm thinking of one big personality

:19:38. > :19:44.in particular, are we saying he'll not try to tell the Chief Constable

:19:45. > :19:48.what to do? It's about how the thing -- things work out. It's how

:19:48. > :19:52.the relations evolve. What is disappointing, to be honest, given

:19:52. > :19:54.that the Government decided they want to pursue this route, I feel

:19:54. > :19:58.that they've put very little effort into developing the discussion

:19:58. > :20:02.about what the relationship should be. I've been out in different

:20:02. > :20:06.parts of the country and a lot of the members of the public their

:20:06. > :20:11.first question is, what is this meant to achieve? The Government,

:20:11. > :20:16.given that they put such political capital behind this role, I think

:20:16. > :20:19.thea haven't invested in -- they haven't invested in making these

:20:19. > :20:22.real to the public. That's why they are talking about low turnout and

:20:22. > :20:25.why so many members of the public are not sure what this is about.

:20:25. > :20:28.Would Labour keep them? What we would have to see how the roles

:20:28. > :20:33.develop. The truth is we are standing candidates. How the role

:20:33. > :20:35.develops, I think is something we can look over in the next couple of

:20:35. > :20:41.years. We have an independent commission looking at policing, so

:20:42. > :20:45.the jury's out on that. In terms of a democratic mandate, if you take

:20:45. > :20:49.the accusation that you haven't done much to communicate to the

:20:49. > :20:55.public, they are not talking about it in all the pubs around the

:20:55. > :20:58.country. The turnout will be low. Firstly, I think that would have

:20:58. > :21:07.been much truer the fact that nobody knew about it a couple of

:21:07. > :21:10.months ago. I go out a lot. And a lot more people know. We have the

:21:10. > :21:14.website and what is interesting that the website has had more than

:21:14. > :21:22.one million hits with all the people on it. If gou to the website

:21:22. > :21:27.and I -- you go to website and you want the hard copy, more than

:21:27. > :21:31.100,000 people have got the literature. What would be

:21:32. > :21:36.unacceptable for you in terms of turnout? If it fell below 20% t

:21:36. > :21:40.would be difficult to say they've got a mandate. There are members of

:21:40. > :21:46.the House of Commons who are elected with 20%. This is a new

:21:46. > :21:51.election and you would hope there would be a spirit. On the target

:21:51. > :21:55.basis, does it matter? It does matter a little, because legitimacy

:21:55. > :22:00.matters and these are new posts and it would have been better to

:22:00. > :22:03.encourage a higher turnout, but I would rather look forward than

:22:03. > :22:07.having the political knock-about. Don't say that. That's our trade.

:22:07. > :22:10.But these guys will be there the day after the election. One of the

:22:10. > :22:13.things that worries me, you have one commissioner for the whole of

:22:13. > :22:18.Kent or Gloucestershire, which is where I live and they really are

:22:18. > :22:21.going to have to work very, very hard to make sure that they are

:22:21. > :22:25.consulting right across the patch, so that the decisions are seen to

:22:25. > :22:28.be made fairly across those counties. That is going to be

:22:28. > :22:32.difficult. That may, over time, ensure that people get to know the

:22:32. > :22:36.commissioners much more than we do now. I think we could have managed

:22:36. > :22:38.the process up until this point better. We could have done more to

:22:38. > :22:43.help independent members to come forward and there were some

:22:43. > :22:50.discussions about that, that didn't materialise. I think we could have

:22:50. > :22:54.done more in terms of information. We didn't. Thank you. Viewers in

:22:54. > :23:01.England and Wales can see a special programme Police Elections 2012

:23:01. > :23:07.tonight at 7.30 on BBC One. 100% of the votes have been counted in

:23:07. > :23:11.Florida. President Obama is 0.5% ahead of Mitt Romney. 45,000 votes

:23:11. > :23:20.in it in the state where over eight million votes were cast. There

:23:20. > :23:26.could be in challenges to that. Not that will affect the outcome.

:23:26. > :23:30.many in terms of electoral college seats? 29. Yes, they are going to

:23:30. > :23:36.President Obama. Whilst we are been talking it's been announced that

:23:36. > :23:41.the famous Boris bikes in London are going up. They are will cost

:23:41. > :23:47.twice as much. They'll double in annual fee. An interesting morning

:23:47. > :23:51.to announce that! The backbench Conservative MP, the woman who

:23:51. > :23:55.accused the Chancellor and Prime Minister of not knowing the price

:23:55. > :24:00.of milk, Nadine Dorries, she has jetted off to Australia to appear

:24:00. > :24:10.in some ITV show I've never heard of. It's called I'm a Celebrity,

:24:10. > :24:14.

:24:14. > :24:18.Get Me Out of Here. If you've heard of it, she has had a good offer,

:24:18. > :24:22.but do you think she should be there rather than working for the

:24:22. > :24:27.people in the Commons? I don't think she should, but I think it's

:24:27. > :24:32.stupid anyway. That's my opinion. I think she should be deducted her

:24:32. > :24:36.money from being an MP if she is doing something else and she is not

:24:36. > :24:43.there in the Houses of Parliament. I don't think a great deal of her,

:24:43. > :24:47.because she doesn't seem to be interested in the politics. She

:24:47. > :24:50.only -- she is only interested in herself. Hopefully she'll have a

:24:50. > :24:54.good time and decide that that's the place she wants to settle down.

:24:54. > :24:57.I don't think it's the right type of thing for her profession. I

:24:57. > :25:00.wouldn't have thought it doesn't give you much respect for her as a

:25:00. > :25:06.Conservative Party MP and I wouldn't think that was a good idea

:25:06. > :25:09.for her to be there. Some of Nadine Dorries's constituents there. The

:25:09. > :25:11.Conservative Chief Whip, who has only been in the job a few weeks,

:25:11. > :25:18.he's suspended Nadine Dorries and asked her to come to explain

:25:18. > :25:21.herself if and with she gets voted off the show. We are joined by one

:25:21. > :25:26.of her now former Conservative colleagues, Zac Goldsmith. Welcome

:25:26. > :25:30.to the programme. What do you think should happen to Nadine Dorries?

:25:30. > :25:34.Well, I don't think it should be up to us. I think the only people who

:25:35. > :25:37.can judge whether or not she is a good and worthwhile MP are her

:25:37. > :25:43.constituents. If I was a constituent I would be annoyed. I

:25:43. > :25:47.would share that view. It's got to be up to them. The whip - it's an

:25:47. > :25:49.area where the whip cannot take an informed decision. What happens if

:25:49. > :25:53.an MP treats recess like a long holiday or don't have surgeries

:25:53. > :25:58.when they are supposed to? Or don't turn up to Parliament or abstain

:25:58. > :26:01.too much? Where do you draw the line and when is it acceptable and

:26:01. > :26:05.not? It has to be arbitrary if the whip is involved. The only answer

:26:05. > :26:09.is to empower local voters to make that decision and you can only do

:26:09. > :26:12.that by introducing recall, which if you remember, was promised by

:26:12. > :26:16.all three parties before the last election and which has been more or

:26:16. > :26:18.less dropped. The Government will tell you it hasn't, but it has. The

:26:19. > :26:22.version that is still lingering in Parliament is not recall. It's

:26:22. > :26:28.called recall, but it's not. Instead of handing power to voters,

:26:28. > :26:33.it hands up to a committee. It's a hopeless piece of legislation. We

:26:33. > :26:37.need recall. That is the answer. Why can't we have recall when MPs

:26:37. > :26:42.behave so clearly against the will of the people? It hasn't been

:26:42. > :26:46.dropped. There are two separate issues. You withdraw the whip which

:26:46. > :26:48.someone has made it clear they are not going to support the Government

:26:49. > :26:51.and you tell the whips' office that you are swanning off for a month

:26:51. > :26:54.and then it's clear you are not going to be there. What about

:26:54. > :26:58.recall in It's a different thing, because one of the reasons it's

:26:58. > :27:05.taking so long and there is a draft bill on the table, is that you

:27:05. > :27:09.obviously want to avoid the point where a single-issue pressure group

:27:09. > :27:14.can get together, because someone holds a view. They do that in the

:27:14. > :27:19.states. You make the bar a certain level. Ultimately it's the next

:27:19. > :27:23.election, recall. It's not, because if you exist in the safe Tory seat

:27:23. > :27:27.with a 25,000 majority, voters are not going to vote Labour. They

:27:27. > :27:34.never have historically. They'll vote for the best they have, which

:27:34. > :27:39.is the party they have. It would also apply to a Labour seat. If you

:27:39. > :27:43.want to replace your bad Tory MP with a good one, you can't do it

:27:43. > :27:47.without recall. If Denis MacShane, for example, who stood down from

:27:47. > :27:52.Parliament, having done bad things, but having done good things -

:27:52. > :27:56.Supposing he hadn't, there would be recall. Suppose there had been

:27:56. > :27:58.recall. One of the things in the draft bill is the thought that

:27:58. > :28:02.instead of suspension from the Commons which is what the committee

:28:02. > :28:07.did, they recommended a recall. I just don't know whether he could

:28:07. > :28:13.have been recalled. If he wasn't recalled, if an MP behaves badly in

:28:13. > :28:17.our eyes, but their constituents, not enough of them merits a recall,

:28:17. > :28:27.that's democracy. Terry Fields went to jail because of the poll tax. He

:28:27. > :28:29.

:28:29. > :28:39.was a hero. Are Labour in favour? Yes, we are. Can you press that

:28:39. > :28:40.

:28:40. > :28:48.button, as we have to choose Guess the Year. Who is it? There he is.

:28:48. > :28:52.The year was 1955. Anthony Eden was re-elected as Prime Minister with a