:00:43. > :00:48.Good afternoon and welcome to the Daily Politics. According to some
:00:48. > :00:52.researchers, romance begins to wane after two years, six months and 25
:00:52. > :00:56.days. Three cheers for the coalition, who have vowed last of
:00:56. > :01:00.that. This afternoon they will in effect renew their coalition bows
:01:00. > :01:03.with a special event to mark the halfway point of their government.
:01:03. > :01:07.The Prime Minister and his deputy will outline priorities for the
:01:07. > :01:09.rest of their term in office including childcare, care for the
:01:09. > :01:13.elderly and infrastructure investment.
:01:13. > :01:16.Labour has dismissed it as another relaunch, and not everyone involved
:01:17. > :01:21.in the marriage appears convinced. We will be grilling some coalition
:01:21. > :01:24.critics. We have a date of sorts for David
:01:24. > :01:31.Cameron's long awaited speech on Europe. Apparently he will give
:01:31. > :01:36.voters a real choice on our future relationship with the EU.
:01:36. > :01:43.And nasty nanny state or not? We will ask whether politicians should
:01:43. > :01:48.mess with our food. All that and more coming up and the
:01:48. > :01:53.next hour. With us for the duration, the Melchior, Caspar and Balthazar
:01:53. > :01:58.of Westminster. Spot the deliberate mistake! Welcome to the former
:01:58. > :02:02.Welsh Secretary and Conservative MP Cheryl Gillan, former Culture
:02:02. > :02:06.Secretary Tessa Jowell of Labour and former Liberal Democrat leader
:02:06. > :02:10.Ming Campbell. Most of us have reluctantly taken
:02:10. > :02:13.off our Christmas jumpers and trudged back to work. But the
:02:13. > :02:16.Government has something to celebrate today as it marks the
:02:16. > :02:21.halfway point between the start of the Conservative/Lib Dem coalition
:02:21. > :02:25.and the next election. Hard to believe but it is not much more
:02:25. > :02:30.than two years to go. In case anyone was wondering how the
:02:30. > :02:33.parties will keep going until 2015, David Cameron and Nick Clegg are
:02:33. > :02:37.launching their own January sale today to show they still have
:02:37. > :02:42.plenty of new ideas in stock. As they open Number Ten for Business,
:02:42. > :02:46.the PM and his deputy will say the coalition remains steadfast and
:02:46. > :02:50.United and it still has a sense of shared purpose. Among the big
:02:50. > :02:54.policies they hope will fly off the shelves include giving parents tax
:02:54. > :03:00.breaks worth up to �2,000 a year to pay for childcare. There could be
:03:00. > :03:06.more generous flat-rate state pensions, perhaps worth around �155
:03:06. > :03:10.a week after 2015. They will try to drum up interest in planning
:03:10. > :03:14.reforms to encourage home building and more state mortgage guarantees
:03:14. > :03:18.to help first-time Wilder's -- first-time buyers. There could be a
:03:18. > :03:22.Freedom Bill to restrict state snooping and also alarming private
:03:22. > :03:30.firms to build more toll roads. These policies could be best
:03:30. > :03:34.sellers but many will not come into effect until after 2015. The Lib
:03:34. > :03:38.Dem minister David Laws, one of the biggest advocates of the coalition,
:03:38. > :03:42.was speaking about it earlier. will set out new policy areas they
:03:42. > :03:46.want to develop over the next few weeks on the big public priority
:03:46. > :03:51.areas like doing more to help working families with childcare
:03:51. > :03:55.costs, helping the elderly people with serious medical conditions
:03:55. > :04:00.with the cost of social care, helping people who want to get into
:04:00. > :04:03.the housing market, maybe young people. We will be setting out
:04:03. > :04:08.policy directions and making announcements over the next few
:04:08. > :04:11.weeks. Tessa Jowell, as a minister you
:04:11. > :04:16.founded the Sure Start scheme, your campaign to make childcare
:04:16. > :04:22.affordable, do you welcome these new plans? I would welcome anything
:04:22. > :04:28.that makes it possible for women to work and for their children to be
:04:28. > :04:32.looked after her in an excellent childcare centre in which they feel
:04:32. > :04:36.they have confidence. But I had a quick look this morning at the
:04:36. > :04:41.foreword to the coalition plan, there is a proposal to make
:04:41. > :04:46.childcare more affordable by, as I understand it, encouraging carers
:04:46. > :04:51.to look after more children. That is not improving the quality of
:04:51. > :04:57.child care. Spreading the resources of a childminder or a nursery
:04:57. > :05:01.worker among a larger number of children. The fact is that you get
:05:01. > :05:08.this new hardline policy at daytime when sure Start centres are really
:05:08. > :05:12.under threat and are closing. In the context of these welfare
:05:12. > :05:19.changes impacting disproportionately on women. The
:05:19. > :05:22.whole thing is really just a model. The problem is it lacks coherence.
:05:22. > :05:29.We will come to the regulatory point about childminders later, but
:05:29. > :05:33.this idea of up to �2,000 per child per year, as I understand, in some
:05:33. > :05:38.form of tax relief, is that a good idea in principle for working
:05:38. > :05:42.families? Supporting working families with childcare costs is a
:05:42. > :05:48.good thing. But look at the contradictions. Today we are seeing
:05:48. > :05:52.more than a million families losing universal child benefit, which is a
:05:52. > :05:57.universal benefit to support families in meeting the extra costs
:05:57. > :06:01.of children. It seems bizarre, why would you with one hand take away
:06:01. > :06:05.child benefits from families or individuals earning over 60,000,
:06:05. > :06:10.then giving them what seems to be very generous tax relief on child
:06:10. > :06:17.care? I think referring to the child benefit changes today, you
:06:17. > :06:20.need to take that in two Stages. The changes coming into effect save
:06:20. > :06:24.the Treasury �2 billion and effect only the top 15% of earners in the
:06:24. > :06:29.country. If you are left with an economic situation that we
:06:30. > :06:34.inherited when the coalition came in, you have to save money and
:06:34. > :06:39.spend money better. But then why would you then we spend that
:06:39. > :06:44.money...? One of the big barriers, as Tessa which no, because we have
:06:44. > :06:48.both been ministers in Education and Employment, still in 2013, one
:06:48. > :06:51.of the biggest barriers for women going to work and achieving great
:06:51. > :06:56.things at work and breaking through the glass ceiling is having
:06:56. > :07:01.dependable and affordable childcare. This is the Government saying, OK,
:07:01. > :07:05.we have to make some tough choices, but maybe this is a better way of
:07:05. > :07:09.spending taxpayers' money and directing it at people who can then
:07:09. > :07:13.improve their lot and help grow the economy. Do you think that voters
:07:13. > :07:17.will be confused by the message from the Government with the child
:07:17. > :07:21.care policy? There was already a childcare voucher scheme in place,
:07:21. > :07:26.this seems more generous, but it does not sit with what the
:07:26. > :07:31.Government is doing on child benefit? I don't agree with that. I
:07:31. > :07:35.take the same view as Cheryl Gillan. If you take money away, that is
:07:35. > :07:38.effectively what is being done, so long as you use it for a better
:07:39. > :07:46.purpose then what is wrong with taking it away? The people for whom
:07:46. > :07:49.it has been taken away and twice the average wage in this country. I
:07:49. > :07:54.believe in universality, I wish we could leave it, but I also believe
:07:54. > :07:59.in a stable economy and in using all of the mechanisms at our
:07:59. > :08:04.disposal to persuade people to go into work. When it comes to the
:08:04. > :08:08.present level of financial support, it is by no means generous and if
:08:08. > :08:13.we can increase that and therefore increase the enthusiasm of women,
:08:13. > :08:17.particularly those who are married with children, to come back to work,
:08:17. > :08:22.then that is... I think everyone is agreed, but let's come back to the
:08:22. > :08:31.fairness issue. The child benefit removal is for individuals earning
:08:31. > :08:36.over �60,000. Starting at �50,000. Starting at 50 but going more to
:08:36. > :08:41.get at 60 plus. But this new tax break will be universal, so people
:08:41. > :08:46.earning �1 million will get it. It is that bad? From what I understand,
:08:46. > :08:51.we are taking money from a particular section, if you like,
:08:51. > :08:54.and giving it on a universal basis. It seems that is fair, especially
:08:54. > :08:59.if it has the entirely laudable objective of getting people back
:08:59. > :09:03.into work and not penalising them. I know people whose child care
:09:03. > :09:09.almost amounts to the same as their salary. That is not there, we
:09:09. > :09:14.should do something about it. Labour likes universal benefits,
:09:14. > :09:20.shouldn't everybody get it? It is a bit like corrective surgery. The
:09:20. > :09:24.Government reduced the value of the childcare tax credit, there was an
:09:24. > :09:27.Aviva study last year which showed the first figures, 30,000 women
:09:27. > :09:31.dropping out of the labour market because they could not afford
:09:31. > :09:37.childcare. I get letters all the time from constituents who can no
:09:37. > :09:44.longer afford to the cost of childcare at a sure start centre of.
:09:44. > :09:50.�2,000 a month for two children. I am sure families will welcome this,
:09:50. > :09:55.but the question is it is not underpinned by a confidence and a
:09:55. > :10:01.clear vision about what a comprehensive childcare policy is...
:10:01. > :10:06.ALL TALK AT ONCE. You are in a very difficult position, you have to try
:10:06. > :10:10.to oppose what is a very good policy for families and women.
:10:10. > :10:17.Before we got independent taxation, the tax breaks are most likely to
:10:17. > :10:22.go, possibly, to women workers. I don't know many women earning I am
:10:22. > :10:27.not, I assure you! I think the Government is showing the direction
:10:27. > :10:33.of travel and I think it will help give that security to the Sure
:10:33. > :10:37.Start centres. Let's move on to benefits in general, why should
:10:37. > :10:45.they not be capped at 1% when many wages have been frozen for at least
:10:45. > :10:51.two years? We are talking about people in receipt of income support
:10:51. > :10:54.and people in work. We are talking was about the working poor and
:10:54. > :11:03.people on income support, all of whom should be actively in pursuit
:11:03. > :11:09.of seeking work because those who Walmart are already on alternative
:11:09. > :11:13.benefits which remove that expectation -- those who are not
:11:13. > :11:17.are already on alternative benefits which remove that expectation. If
:11:17. > :11:24.you are in work and get a 2% pay increase and you are on the average
:11:24. > :11:29.income, it is a bit more than 54p a week, which is the 1% increase for
:11:29. > :11:35.a 16 to 24 year-old on income support. But people will think
:11:35. > :11:38.Labour is not getting to grips with the welfare bill. Reports today say
:11:38. > :11:42.people are not that interested in the detail and hard times, they
:11:42. > :11:45.just want to know the welfare bill is being tackled. If you are not
:11:45. > :11:51.prepared to follow the government proposal, it looks like you are
:11:51. > :11:56.shying away. We are not. The way in which you cut the welfare bill,
:11:56. > :12:02.which has risen since we were in power, is getting people back in
:12:02. > :12:06.work. Ed Balls and Liam Burns have been coming up with policies for
:12:06. > :12:11.the older long-term unemployed. Chancellor does not use the word
:12:11. > :12:16.shirkers himself, but people who are workshy, most people on
:12:16. > :12:22.benefits are in work, 60%, which helps make work pay. I don't use
:12:22. > :12:25.words like shirkers. Should the Chancellor be characterising...?
:12:25. > :12:30.don't use the metaphor of people asleep with their curtains drawn,
:12:30. > :12:34.all circumstances are different. There is a test for Labour tomorrow
:12:34. > :12:37.when the House of Commons, we will have a boat in relation to the 1%
:12:37. > :12:43.to just described. Labour says we should oppose it, but any time we
:12:43. > :12:47.oppose anything Labour says no. -- any time we propose anything Labour
:12:47. > :12:51.says no. I hope that people like Tessa Jowell will start to come
:12:52. > :12:55.forward saying what they would do as an alternative, rather than just
:12:55. > :13:01.opposing us. Lord Strathclyde is standing down
:13:01. > :13:04.from the cabinet with immediate effect. He is the Leader of the
:13:04. > :13:07.House of Lords for the Conservatives. Your reaction?
:13:07. > :13:14.think Tom Strathclyde has been a tremendous leader in the House of
:13:14. > :13:18.Lords, he was chief whip when I was PPS, this is going back into the
:13:19. > :13:25.90s. I think he will be sadly missed but I understand he will be
:13:25. > :13:29.looking to pursue a business role and I'm sure that Lord Hill, who is
:13:29. > :13:35.reputed to be taking his place, will also make an excellent leader
:13:35. > :13:38.in the House of Lords. But I'm sad to hear that Tom is going. He is a
:13:39. > :13:43.particular friend of mine and across all parties I think you
:13:43. > :13:48.would agree he is a good man to having your corn and to do business
:13:48. > :13:54.with. We have had the whole debacle with the House of Lords reform, now
:13:54. > :13:57.he is stepping down. There is never any easy time to leave the front
:13:57. > :14:02.bench. I think he has made his decision for whatever reason and I
:14:02. > :14:06.wish him the best of luck. He could have gone and the reshuffle and he
:14:06. > :14:09.could have told David Cameron beforehand? You don't know about
:14:09. > :14:15.people's personal circumstances, I think it is best to leave it to him
:14:15. > :14:20.to say why he is going. He has provided great leadership in a very
:14:21. > :14:24.difficult time. I think he became Chief Whip, he must have been the
:14:24. > :14:33.youngest Tory Chief Whip in the House of Lords for years and years
:14:33. > :14:36.and years. He became Chief Whip very early. He has had a pretty
:14:36. > :14:40.long innings. And he said he was going to go sometime before and
:14:40. > :14:45.never did. Whatever the future for the
:14:45. > :14:49.coalition, the last two-and-a-half years has not been plain sailing.
:14:49. > :14:54.For all the teasing, it seemed a bit like a wedding, a marriage of
:14:54. > :15:01.political convenience but with roses, a reception, walking to the
:15:01. > :15:04.altar of media attention and even speeches with jokes. REPORTER: DU
:15:04. > :15:10.now regrets when once asked what your favourite joke was, you
:15:10. > :15:18.replied, Nick Clegg? Deputy Prime Minister, what do you say? I am
:15:18. > :15:21.afraid I did once... LAUGHTER. back!
:15:21. > :15:26.They are poles apart on so many issues but they have team together
:15:26. > :15:30.to do what they can. It went better than expected for them, leaving the
:15:30. > :15:35.Deputy PM Nick Clegg to joke with the PM, David Cameron, after
:15:35. > :15:39.another joint outing... If we keep doing this, we won't find anything
:15:40. > :15:45.to disagree on in the TV debate. But government is a fast track to
:15:45. > :15:50.fall-outs, it furrows the brogue. For Clegg, a bee hit the buffers.
:15:50. > :15:53.There was awkwardness on Lords reform and constituency boundaries,
:15:53. > :15:58.Ministerial disagreements, and with the media relentlessly looking for
:15:58. > :16:02.cracks, at the very least the shine has worn off. Separation is in the
:16:02. > :16:09.mind of a large number of people. I think in the year ahead we will see
:16:09. > :16:14.increasing statements by both sides showing how they defer. I think all
:16:14. > :16:19.coalitions find it difficult at the midterms stage to renew their of
:16:19. > :16:23.iOS, if you like, to renew their policy agreement. -- to renew their
:16:23. > :16:27.vows, if you like. We have seen that with the British coalition.
:16:27. > :16:33.There has been talk of having a coalition to 0.0 agreement which
:16:34. > :16:37.has been scaled back to a more limited process. Europe is often a
:16:37. > :16:47.bugbear for the Conservatives, but in coalition with the Europhile Lib
:16:47. > :16:54.
:16:54. > :16:59.He is deeply concerned about UKIP, and so are the Cabinet. The only
:16:59. > :17:05.way they can diffuse that time bomb is get on the side of the public
:17:05. > :17:08.over Europe. It's not all gloom, the sun may have chilled a little
:17:08. > :17:14.but get the economy right and both parties benefit. Big differences
:17:14. > :17:17.can be left to 2015 manifestos. They are working on policy still
:17:17. > :17:19.like banking reforms, and delivery of earlier reforms, and all signals
:17:19. > :17:29.are that governmentally they are still working relatively well
:17:29. > :17:33.together. Good strategy say some. Voters cast judgments on
:17:33. > :17:38.governments, but we know that come up for their competence.
:17:38. > :17:43.Governments which fall apart in bitter recriminations and arguments
:17:43. > :17:49.are not ones that can claim a great record of governing competence.
:17:49. > :17:53.Government is one thing, politics is another. There are two other
:17:53. > :17:59.coalitions we are not thinking about. The other is the right wing
:17:59. > :18:04.and hardline view of Conservatives Against the Cameroons. They think
:18:04. > :18:08.he is too cosy with the Lib Dems. We are trying to hold a coalition
:18:08. > :18:12.together there. And then, with the Lib Dems think Nick Clegg is a
:18:12. > :18:16.spent force and cannot win in the next election. They are waiting for
:18:16. > :18:19.the moment to move against Nick Clegg. So for the next two years,
:18:19. > :18:21.expect them to still stand together but increasingly look in different
:18:21. > :18:23.directions. Giles reporting. Well, I'm now
:18:23. > :18:26.joined from College Green by two of the Coalition's most constructive
:18:26. > :18:33.critics, the Conservative MP, Peter Bone, and the Liberal Democrat
:18:33. > :18:37.blogger, Ben Ramm. Her have been New Year.
:18:37. > :18:44.Peter Bone, David Cameron and Nick Clegg, or renewing their vows, do
:18:44. > :18:49.you wish them well? Not exactly. I'm just about to break my new
:18:49. > :18:55.year's resolution, not to criticise the coalition. That lasted a long
:18:55. > :18:59.time! It seems to me we have to have a planned divorce. It is not
:18:59. > :19:03.in the interests of the nation or either political party to just
:19:03. > :19:07.continue for ever. Are we suggesting we go into the next
:19:07. > :19:12.election as coalition candidates? That is one interpretation of what
:19:12. > :19:17.is happening, and I am worried about that. We do need to have a
:19:17. > :19:21.way of ending this in an orderly manner in the next year or so.
:19:21. > :19:25.have barely come out of the doors of the houses of Parliament to
:19:25. > :19:32.renew their vows, Peter Bone is saying it is time for divorce. Do
:19:32. > :19:36.you agree with that? Spike don't think it will happen until 20 I
:19:36. > :19:40.think 2013 will be a year of consolidation. I think both parties
:19:40. > :19:45.will be hoping the economy picks up. Many of the measures announced
:19:45. > :19:51.today depend on the economy improving and both parties being
:19:51. > :19:54.able to say next year, we have achieved a certain things, we
:19:54. > :19:58.inherited a bad situation and we have left the country in a better
:19:58. > :20:03.conditions. If the economy does improve in terms of growth, Peter
:20:03. > :20:10.Bone, would you not be happy to bump along with the coalition for a
:20:10. > :20:16.bit longer? No, I agreed with them Ram. Get the economy right, that is
:20:16. > :20:20.the only reason this coalition came together. It is a huge economic
:20:20. > :20:25.mess a Labour left the country in. We are on the way to putting those
:20:25. > :20:29.policies in place. If we can finish the job and put them to bed, these
:20:29. > :20:33.economic measures, by the end of the year, I think it will be a
:20:33. > :20:37.sensible time for the coalition to go it separate ways, and for the
:20:37. > :20:42.Government, under David Cameron, rule as a minority Government for
:20:42. > :20:46.the rest of the term. Do you think the Liberal Democrats are coming
:20:46. > :20:51.off worse in his coalition? I think they are, not only have they let
:20:51. > :20:55.down many of their supporters, and on key issues from which they did
:20:55. > :20:59.not need to support the Tory programme, particularly on the NHS
:20:59. > :21:03.Bill, and we are seeing an attempt to do with the social care aspect
:21:03. > :21:08.which was not addressed last year and upset so million Liberal
:21:08. > :21:14.Democrat, I think the party has been damaged economic elite. In
:21:14. > :21:17.terms of cuts, on VAT, we know about tuition fees and the NHS. One
:21:17. > :21:22.of the reasons the economy is so crucial for the Liberal Democrat
:21:22. > :21:27.now, they're looking for things with which to demonstrate they have
:21:27. > :21:32.incredible in Government, and the commitments and sacrifices they
:21:32. > :21:36.made in 2010 or were worth it. Peter Bone, Lib Dems have been
:21:36. > :21:41.worse off, so you have had it all your way? That is the most absurd
:21:41. > :21:46.thing I have heard this year. The Liberal Democrats are loving being
:21:46. > :21:50.in Government, they are wagging the tale of the dogs. It is ridiculous.
:21:50. > :21:56.You talk to any of Dem MP, they are happy with the coalition because
:21:56. > :22:02.they are getting more than they should be getting. What this
:22:02. > :22:06.renewal of vows should be saying is, we much -- we should have a much
:22:06. > :22:10.more conservative agenda. That would be good news, if that is what
:22:10. > :22:15.the Prime Minister is to announce. Happy New Year to both a view on
:22:15. > :22:20.that. Cheryl Gillan, the Lib Dems are
:22:20. > :22:24.wagging the tale of the dog and they have had it all their own way?
:22:25. > :22:30.I am sad about Peter Bone, I thought he would have made the New
:22:30. > :22:35.year's resolution... He did, he broke it. Let's talk about real
:22:35. > :22:42.politics instead of this Duke from the two people you had just
:22:42. > :22:47.interviewed. The two parties came together to solve the major problem
:22:47. > :22:50.of the economy. They had come up with an agreement and they are
:22:50. > :22:56.battling ahead and moving the country in the right directions. It
:22:56. > :23:01.is difficult to work in a coalition. Having set in the cabinet alongside
:23:01. > :23:06.Lib Dems, their objectives and aims for the economy is just the same as
:23:06. > :23:09.the Conservatives. Isn't that the point, everyone agrees on deficit-
:23:09. > :23:15.reduction and fixing the economy, but is there anything else be on
:23:15. > :23:19.that? There has had to be give and take on both sides. I would argue,
:23:19. > :23:23.it sometimes does appear the Conservatives have had to given a
:23:23. > :23:27.little more, and the Lib Dems have taken a little more. But it works
:23:27. > :23:34.the other way as well. It has to be give and take and a successful
:23:34. > :23:39.coalition because the future of the UK depends on this. That is then
:23:39. > :23:46.ran being constructive. I think it might have been a little tongue-in-
:23:46. > :23:51.cheek. But it is a viewpoint in your party? Let me give you another
:23:51. > :23:55.demonstration, 57 Liberal-Democrat MPs went into the lobbies to
:23:55. > :23:59.support the Prime Minister on the question of the European budget. As
:23:59. > :24:05.substantial number of Conservative MPs went into the opposite lobby
:24:05. > :24:09.along with the Labour Party. As a result, the Government was defeated.
:24:09. > :24:12.That was caused by disaffection and an unwillingness to accept the
:24:12. > :24:18.conditions of the coalition by very substantial part of the
:24:18. > :24:25.Conservative Party. Let's look ahead. The idea, I understood from
:24:25. > :24:28.Nick Clegg and others, the differentiation was going to be so.
:24:28. > :24:33.We have seen Nick Clegg characterised things differently.
:24:33. > :24:36.But if what we are working for towards now is showing whether
:24:37. > :24:40.Liberal Democrat have made a difference and Clearing the clear
:24:40. > :24:45.water between themselves and the Conservatives? Contrary to what has
:24:45. > :24:53.been said by these two you have interviewed, his coalition will
:24:53. > :24:57.last until 2015. Because it has to? Yes, there is absolutely no
:24:57. > :25:01.appetite or enthusiasm for going to the country. I don't believe the
:25:01. > :25:07.country would welcome it, because the purpose of the coalition was in
:25:07. > :25:12.the national interest. To go now with PCS -- would be to suggest one
:25:12. > :25:16.was abandoning the national interest. You have tackled the
:25:16. > :25:21.Government over game marriage and high-speed rail. And David Cameron
:25:21. > :25:26.has taught people complaining on the backbenches to shut up. Any
:25:26. > :25:31.chance of that happening? On high- speed rail, as the other guests
:25:31. > :25:35.know, it is a problem for me and my constituency. I hope that
:25:35. > :25:40.Government will think again on it. I don't think this is the right
:25:40. > :25:44.project, and it does happen to go through... It I will keep
:25:44. > :25:50.complaining and other backbenchers will keep complaining about Europe?
:25:50. > :25:53.One of the real things that I think we have got to concentrate on as a
:25:53. > :25:57.Conservative Party is better communications with those
:25:57. > :26:00.backbenchers. Each party have had issues and problems with
:26:00. > :26:05.backbenchers from time to time. We need to improve the level of
:26:05. > :26:10.communication between the ministers and backbenchers. Ministers seem to
:26:10. > :26:15.be all signed up, but the grassroots, and MPs are different?
:26:15. > :26:22.You are right to say the ministers get on well. The noises coming from
:26:22. > :26:27.the ministry is all very positive. There will always be individual MPs,
:26:27. > :26:33.I have an argument with the Government for closing and Royal
:26:33. > :26:37.Air Force station in my constituency. There will always be
:26:37. > :26:43.individual, constituency issues. Political parties are like
:26:43. > :26:49.coalitions, and heaven knows the coalition, that it was the Labour
:26:49. > :26:59.Party in Government could teach us a few things about disagreement.
:26:59. > :27:13.
:27:14. > :27:23.Now it's time for our daily quiz. Wop does Mr Osborne listened to
:27:24. > :27:26.when he is jogging? Now, we've been waiting for it for yonks and yonks,
:27:27. > :27:28.but don't panic because we're told it will finally happen later this
:27:28. > :27:31.month. What am I talking about? David
:27:31. > :27:34.Cameron's long awaited speech on Europe of course. The trouble is,
:27:35. > :27:37.where should he give it? The Rose Garden, perhaps? Or is that just a
:27:37. > :27:42.tad passe? Here's David. You know what it is like, a big
:27:42. > :27:45.speech to make, but were to go to set the tone. We are not just here
:27:46. > :27:51.for the nasty things in life like a shock resignation or disappointing
:27:51. > :27:56.growth figures, we like to help. So we have been looking for the
:27:56. > :28:00.perfect venue to set out a plan is still real vision for Europe. If he
:28:00. > :28:05.wants to throw some red meat to the Euro-sceptics, he could come here.
:28:05. > :28:10.The food is as British as Yorkshire pudding, and they have been feeding
:28:10. > :28:17.Tory MPs for centuries. But he has been cosying up to Angela Merkel,
:28:17. > :28:22.so perhaps coming here might not be a bad idea. Only one tube stop away
:28:22. > :28:26.from Westminster. If you wanted to build a few bridges with fans, were
:28:26. > :28:29.better than to come to the French house. They do serve the beer in
:28:29. > :28:33.French measures, but it does have an upstairs dining room and it is
:28:33. > :28:37.available for functions. It David wants to turn Europe to
:28:37. > :28:40.wake up and smell the coffee, than were better than Bar Italia. But
:28:40. > :28:50.there is one place the Prime Minister should avoid. No matter
:28:50. > :28:50.
:28:50. > :28:54.how good its menu... A poll for the Mail on Sunday but
:28:54. > :28:59.the UK Independence Party on 16%, the best ever result following a
:28:59. > :29:05.by-election in November. Should the Prime Minister be taking the UKIP
:29:05. > :29:09.threat seriously? Do you regret using fruit cake and closet racists
:29:09. > :29:13.as terms for UKIP? When you are Prime Minister you have to get used
:29:13. > :29:18.to the fact that in the middle of a Parliament you have people going
:29:18. > :29:26.off in different directions. You have to focus on the job in hand.
:29:26. > :29:30.They are not fruitcakes, are they? I don't know if he was including
:29:30. > :29:38.Nigel Farage, the leader of the UK Independence Party, but he joins us
:29:38. > :29:42.now. Are you fruitcake Leone's and closet racists or a bit odd?
:29:42. > :29:47.Compared to David Cameron, Ed Miliband, I am very odd. I spent 20
:29:47. > :29:52.years having a job. I am in politics out of conviction, I
:29:52. > :29:58.believe in things. So by those terms, I am probably pretty odd.
:29:58. > :30:03.How would you describe members of UKIP? I have to say, I would
:30:03. > :30:08.probably rely on my ladylike approach and say, I think they are
:30:08. > :30:12.a bit of a one issue wonder. We are against the high-speed rail, which
:30:12. > :30:19.your party is not, and that is why we are getting so many votes in
:30:19. > :30:24.your consistency -- constituency. am with you on that. We have a new
:30:24. > :30:29.coalition breaking out. UKIP has grown and has tremendous success
:30:29. > :30:34.over the past 12 months. But they have based their party on an anti-
:30:34. > :30:38.European stance. It is out of Europe, not in Europe, it is
:30:38. > :30:44.completely out of Europe. To that extent it is a one issue party.
:30:44. > :30:49.They are now broadening their base, and you have to take UKIP seriously.
:30:49. > :30:53.Should David Cameron take them more seriously? All parties should take
:30:53. > :30:58.16% growth in the polls seriously. There is how you should treat
:30:58. > :31:03.others political parties. Miliband, the day we had the row in
:31:03. > :31:09.Rotherham over the fostering case. Ed Miliband said he did not believe
:31:09. > :31:15.in UKIP, but said we shouldn't be removed. The only person I can see
:31:15. > :31:22.in mainstream politics abusing UKIP on a regular basis is your leader.
:31:22. > :31:26.That has been taken out of context and played over and over again. I
:31:26. > :31:31.did a proper job for 20 years, and I have been 20 years in politics
:31:31. > :31:41.and I did not get where I am today without being insulted on a regular
:31:41. > :31:43.
:31:43. > :31:48.basis. You have been plain to the Are you realistically aiming for
:31:48. > :31:51.Parliament? We don't just talk about Europe, we talk about the
:31:51. > :31:55.consequences of European Union membership on our lives and economy.
:31:55. > :32:02.This year we will campaign hard on the fact that on January 1st next
:32:02. > :32:05.year be open the doors not just for work but for Social Security to 29
:32:05. > :32:10.billion people -- 29 million people from the poor countries of Romania
:32:10. > :32:15.and Bulgaria. That is wrong at a time of high youth unemployment.
:32:15. > :32:18.is irresponsible? And they open their borders to the many people of
:32:18. > :32:22.Britain will want to stop businesses in these countries, the
:32:22. > :32:31.many people who choose to live in Spain rather than the UK. Is it a
:32:31. > :32:35.two-way street in the same way? course. If you are concerned about
:32:35. > :32:39.workers from what we used to call the Iron Curtain... If you are
:32:39. > :32:44.concerned about workers from behind the Iron Curtain as we used to call
:32:44. > :32:47.it, you should look at the hotel and food processing industries. If
:32:47. > :32:54.we did not have those people working here, the industries would
:32:54. > :32:58.not be able to operate. They have operated for hundreds of years
:32:58. > :33:02.without an open door policy. The point is she to be able to come on
:33:02. > :33:08.day one from Eastern Europe and claim benefits? -- should you be
:33:08. > :33:13.able to? You can't. You can, if you claim you are self-employed seeking
:33:13. > :33:17.work, you qualify for jobseeker's allowance on day one. I am not sure
:33:17. > :33:23.that is the case, if it is, it should it be allowed? I would have
:33:23. > :33:28.to check the facts on that. But I think a transition period for these
:33:28. > :33:32.new countries is important. Croatia is joining us this year, and the
:33:32. > :33:36.presidency is going to love the way near for the second half of the
:33:36. > :33:41.year. I believe we are stronger together in a form of gripping, but
:33:41. > :33:44.I also believe that a transition period so you do not have the
:33:44. > :33:49.temptation of people coming in large numbers. The Labour
:33:49. > :33:52.government got those numbers very badly wrong. When the first wave of
:33:52. > :33:57.immigration came from Eastern Europe, when the open-door policy
:33:57. > :34:05.started, it was a problem to deal with as far as the population here
:34:05. > :34:11.was concerned? Yes, and regionally it was very difficult. There are
:34:11. > :34:16.parts of Kent, for instance, who felt the impact of migration...
:34:16. > :34:20.Labour got that wrong in terms of transitional agreements. But I
:34:20. > :34:27.agree with Ming Campbell, this is a two-way street and the benefits to
:34:27. > :34:30.our economy and our service industries... I remember the days
:34:30. > :34:35.before the free movement when these service industries found it
:34:35. > :34:40.impossible to recruits. These are the areas in which we have seen
:34:40. > :34:45.growth over the last 10 or 15 years, because these are mostly young
:34:45. > :34:48.people, aspirational young people prepared to come and work here.
:34:49. > :34:53.we need foreign workers or skilled workers, that is fine and we should
:34:53. > :34:59.welcome them from all over the world, but on a work permit system,
:34:59. > :35:02.not with the automatic right to settle. I ran the work-permit
:35:02. > :35:06.scheme in the last Conservative government. When we saw there was a
:35:06. > :35:09.lot of applications coming from the former Soviet Union we increased
:35:09. > :35:14.our resources and the amount of people allowed in because they were
:35:14. > :35:24.the sort of people coming that we wanted in our economy. Let's move
:35:24. > :35:29.on briefly, Nigel Farage, realistic ambitions the 2015, how many seats?
:35:29. > :35:33.The first-past-the-post system is pretty brutal to a country like
:35:33. > :35:37.UKIP. To succeed at Westminster elections we have to do what the
:35:37. > :35:41.Lib Dems did in the 80s and 90s, where they build up clusters of
:35:41. > :35:46.district and county councillors and through that won parliamentary
:35:46. > :35:50.seats. So the May elections are very important stepping stone. I
:35:50. > :35:56.can't put a number run yet. Coalition, we know you don't want
:35:56. > :36:01.to work with David Cameron, a coalition with a different leader?
:36:01. > :36:05.Peter Bone, perhaps! I have always said that I would do a deal with
:36:05. > :36:12.edit -- with the devil if we could get a free and fair referendum in
:36:12. > :36:17.this country. What about David Cameron's speech? Mark Field, a
:36:17. > :36:23.Tory MP, said it was fantasy to think that you could repatriate a
:36:23. > :36:27.load of powers back from Brussels? I disagree, I think the time has
:36:27. > :36:31.come to look at our relationship with the European Union. I don't
:36:31. > :36:35.want to see in an in/out choice because I do not believe in an
:36:35. > :36:40.empty chair policy in Europe, but I think in terms of social
:36:40. > :36:43.legislation, Home Office legislation and things like the
:36:43. > :36:48.working-time directive in employment, I think we should be
:36:48. > :36:51.making those decisions ourselves, and I think the time is right. The
:36:52. > :36:56.EU is examining itself closely because it feels its stability is
:36:56. > :37:00.threatened by what is happening with the Euro and other areas.
:37:00. > :37:08.one country of the other 26 that is willing to enter into these
:37:08. > :37:12.negotiations. Quite. Sorry, I was slightly taken aback.
:37:12. > :37:16.Our membership of Europe is actually coup crucial to our
:37:17. > :37:20.economy. Don't think we will see economic growth if we start
:37:20. > :37:24.destabilising confidence in our role in Europe. David Cameron is
:37:24. > :37:28.driven by one thing alone, the requirements of party management
:37:28. > :37:34.and not the national interest. will be interesting to hear him.
:37:34. > :37:36.Thank you, Nigel Farage. As we have heard, this afternoon
:37:36. > :37:40.David Cameron Nick Clegg will publish a document assessing the
:37:40. > :37:42.achievement of the coalition government so far and setting out
:37:42. > :37:46.ambitions for the second half of this Parliament.
:37:47. > :37:55.Also, the Commons debate corporate tax avoidance.
:37:55. > :38:02.Tomorrow they debate the capping of benefit rises to 1%.
:38:02. > :38:04.On Wednesday, the first PMQs of 2013. In the Lords, they will
:38:04. > :38:07.debate the public service pensions bill.
:38:07. > :38:12.Thursday is Margaret Thatcher Day and the Falkland Islands,
:38:13. > :38:15.commemorating her visit in 1983 after victory over Argentina.
:38:15. > :38:18.And the Planning Minister Nick Boles makes a speech on housing
:38:18. > :38:24.policy. On Friday, the Lords debate the
:38:24. > :38:30.Leveson report into press standards. A busy week. Outside Parliament is
:38:30. > :38:35.Rafael Behr of the New Statesman, and Isabel Hardman of the Spectator.
:38:35. > :38:39.Rafael Behr, the coalition renewing its bows, what does it mean?
:38:39. > :38:43.first thing is that most of the time the coalition is discussed and
:38:43. > :38:47.has been discussed in the last year, it has been because there are
:38:47. > :38:52.tensions between the parties. The Lib Dems have been afraid of losing
:38:52. > :38:56.their identity and being submerged, nobody noticing them more caring or
:38:56. > :39:00.believing they have any in -- influence. David Cameron has come
:39:00. > :39:05.under pressure to assert a more vigorous and red-blooded Tory
:39:05. > :39:09.agenda. People I used to discussing whether and when it will fail but
:39:09. > :39:12.there is two years to go before the election and Cammell and quite
:39:12. > :39:17.badly need people to think it is a functional working government that
:39:17. > :39:22.can achieve anything -- and Cameron and Clegg badly need people to
:39:22. > :39:26.think. It is also about showing that we have real policies and are
:39:26. > :39:29.working together, so they have to do that mid-term renewal so that
:39:29. > :39:35.people will talk about something other than how they dislike each
:39:35. > :39:40.other. Isabel Hardman, we have talked about how the leadership and
:39:40. > :39:45.ministers genuinely seem to get on in most cases, but be backbenchers
:39:45. > :39:50.and grassroots MPs, are they as convinced? I think MPs on both
:39:50. > :39:54.sides would rather there was more of a differentiation policy. Today
:39:54. > :39:58.is about unity, as well be the next few weeks, because they are
:39:58. > :40:03.spinning out the different announcements, but we are seeing
:40:03. > :40:07.differentiation are lots of issues. The Lib Dems have been very vocal
:40:07. > :40:11.on their desire to see that. Nick Clegg said that he wanted to see
:40:11. > :40:16.all the bits going into government and a discussion about policy
:40:16. > :40:20.before they are decided. Cameron has flown kites on welfare and
:40:20. > :40:27.immigration over the past year and a bit. We will see more and more of
:40:27. > :40:31.that, both parties are thinking about 2015 already. Rafael Behr,
:40:31. > :40:36.five weeks since the Leveson report was published, where are we with
:40:36. > :40:40.the future of press regulation? technical answer is in cross-party
:40:40. > :40:44.talks. The nature of that is that these parties will culturally not
:40:44. > :40:48.agree with each other and their positions can be quite polarised.
:40:48. > :40:53.Labour has invested all their stock in the idea of a Bill before
:40:53. > :40:57.Parliament which will in some way regulates the press. David Cameron
:40:57. > :41:02.has insisted he does not want to see that. I think Nick Clegg's role
:41:02. > :41:06.will be important, he has suggested he prefers the Labour view of its
:41:06. > :41:09.but he is in collision with the Conservatives and will not want to
:41:09. > :41:14.disrupt that O'Brien issue that many people will not feel
:41:14. > :41:17.comfortable -- will not feel passionate about. At one point
:41:17. > :41:21.either Labour will publish their own bill or David Cameron was say
:41:21. > :41:28.they will have a royal commission, they don't need a Bill, let's just
:41:28. > :41:32.do this without bothering Parliament. An interesting
:41:32. > :41:36.development mentioning Labour, a return to frontline politics for
:41:36. > :41:40.David Miliband, Isabel Hardman? was quite surprised, but thinking
:41:41. > :41:44.about it, the feud between the brothers has died down. In the
:41:44. > :41:48.autumn conference this year it was not all about what David Miliband
:41:48. > :41:52.thought about Ed's speech or what faces he pulled, he went home
:41:52. > :41:56.before the speech and it looked a bit precious because nobody really
:41:56. > :42:00.cared. It is not a bad time for him to come back because people have
:42:00. > :42:05.forgotten about the warring brothers, Ed has established
:42:05. > :42:12.himself as leader, particularly with his conference speech. What do
:42:12. > :42:15.you do with the Balls problem? people and the Labour Party for an
:42:15. > :42:20.air -- thought that David Miliband would be leader, he is the star
:42:20. > :42:24.strike and you have to get him on the pitch. But what a job does an
:42:24. > :42:27.aspiring Prime Minister do in a Shadow Cabinet? The big job would
:42:27. > :42:31.be Shadow Chancellor, there is not a vacancy and Ed Balls does not
:42:31. > :42:35.want there to be one. I sense that when the discussion comes up, in
:42:35. > :42:39.the background a lot of it is people on the Labour side saying,
:42:39. > :42:45.do we need to have Ed Balls as the lead economic message go there?
:42:45. > :42:49.Could somebody else do that? It is sometimes a proxy for a discussion
:42:49. > :42:53.about whether or not Ed Balls should continue. Thank you. Perhaps
:42:53. > :42:58.David Miliband not for Shadow Transport Secretary, but is he
:42:59. > :43:02.coming back? I don't know and I don't think he does yet. I think
:43:02. > :43:09.that he never stops thinking about how Labour can win next time, he
:43:09. > :43:12.never stops working for the Labour Party. I think there is a bit of
:43:12. > :43:18.kite-flying in the papers today, but I would not read too much into
:43:18. > :43:22.it. Would you like him to come back? Well, of course. As Shadow
:43:22. > :43:26.Chancellor? I would like him to play a key role in helping us to
:43:26. > :43:31.win the next election, which I think he could do. But I think we
:43:31. > :43:35.are a long way before getting to that. It would cause a headache,
:43:35. > :43:41.where would you put him? I think we've had enough IFS and made these
:43:41. > :43:47.and all the rest of it. We can't get enough of those! -- I think we
:43:47. > :43:51.have had enough ifs and maybes. But he has his movement for change, his
:43:51. > :43:55.international work, he is working hard for Labour outside the Shadow
:43:55. > :43:58.Cabinet. I am sure we will all know in due course when that changes.
:43:58. > :44:03.You will tell us! A getting the economy the link
:44:03. > :44:06.seems to be the main focus of the coalition. It is expected back
:44:07. > :44:10.Clegg and Cameron will announce new infrastructure projects today that
:44:10. > :44:17.they hope will create jobs. But there is a worry that the UK could
:44:17. > :44:21.lose its triple-A credit stages and we could be up for a triple death -
:44:21. > :44:25.- a triple dip recession. If we stand back and look at the
:44:25. > :44:29.big picture of the British economy, we need a rebalancing, a bigger
:44:29. > :44:36.private sector, growth more spread more evenly around the country, not
:44:36. > :44:42.so reliant on finance but manufacturing, export, production
:44:42. > :44:46.and high-tech kins -- industries. More new companies were set up last
:44:46. > :44:50.year than in any time in recent history. There are some good signs
:44:50. > :44:57.but it is hard work, it is hard going. Look around Europe and we
:44:57. > :45:05.are not alone in facing these And we're joined now by the city
:45:05. > :45:11.analyst, Louise Cooper. Predictions of a triple dip recession, what do
:45:11. > :45:16.you think? In tears a strong possibility. About the triple A
:45:16. > :45:24.rating, one downgrade is almost guaranteed. There is an outside
:45:24. > :45:29.chance we could be downgraded twice. It is a possibility. How bad would
:45:29. > :45:36.that be? We do know George Osborne held it as a big prize, holding on
:45:36. > :45:41.to that report Bay rating. If it goes now, would it be a big blow?
:45:41. > :45:47.am surprised we have not lost it already. Have we lost it
:45:47. > :45:52.technically? At in the markets think we have lost it. It is
:45:52. > :45:57.considered easing that is keeping our borrowing costs down. Last week
:45:57. > :46:03.we heard from the Federal Reserve in the States, and quantity the
:46:04. > :46:07.easing in the States may be coming to end next year. As soon as
:46:07. > :46:12.markets think that's considered easing may be coming to an end in
:46:12. > :46:17.the UK, that is the point to worry about borrowing costs for the UK.
:46:17. > :46:20.It is not about whether the Bank of England is buying gilts, it is
:46:20. > :46:24.whether International inventors will continue to buy them. So, you
:46:24. > :46:30.do not think that borrowing costs, interest debt payments would go up
:46:30. > :46:37.from losing our triple A credit rating? Provided considered easing
:46:37. > :46:42.is still happening. If we get to the end of quantity of ease in ink,
:46:43. > :46:49.because the capacity has ended, because the bank cannot buy any
:46:49. > :46:54.more, if we get to the end of considered easing because the
:46:55. > :46:59.capacity has finished, then that could be very messy. That is pretty
:46:59. > :47:04.bleak. If we haven't already, it looks like we will lose the credit
:47:04. > :47:09.rating. George Osborne said it was crucial, is it a big blow if we
:47:09. > :47:14.lose this? A everybody agrees we are not out of the woods yet. It is
:47:14. > :47:18.not necessarily all in our own hands as well. What has become
:47:18. > :47:23.obvious is the effect that both the euro and the European economy, and
:47:23. > :47:27.the wider world economy, even the state's economy, with what has just
:47:27. > :47:31.happened with the fiscal cliff, how that affects our economy here. I
:47:31. > :47:36.think the Chancellor is entering very tricky waters. He has attached
:47:36. > :47:42.quite a lot to the triple A credit rating. Has he attach too much to
:47:42. > :47:47.it? I find it hard to judge. I would have agreed with the analysis
:47:47. > :47:55.that the markets think we have lost it. But we have been a beacon of
:47:55. > :47:58.light in terms of stability and sticking to the planned. That is
:47:58. > :48:03.admired universally by third parties around the world. We are
:48:03. > :48:09.not going to balance the books, we know that and now. Austerity is
:48:09. > :48:14.going to go on until 2018, a good few years be on what George Osborne
:48:14. > :48:18.predicted. Predictions of losing the triple A credit rating, we do
:48:18. > :48:25.not know what will happen to quantity of easing. What has George
:48:25. > :48:32.Osborne achieved? Sticking to the plan has not report the results has
:48:32. > :48:38.it? I think he is reaping the results. The triple dip recession?
:48:38. > :48:42.If you keep the stability of the interest rates. We have got an
:48:42. > :48:47.economy and that is performing relatively well, compared to other
:48:48. > :48:54.economies. Even the Chinese economy is showing signs of slowing down. I
:48:54. > :48:58.think George has positioned as well. However, it is choppy waters, it is
:48:58. > :49:04.deep-water out there. We need to keep a steady hand on the tiller. I
:49:04. > :49:09.think that is what George has been providing. Louise has set out
:49:09. > :49:13.clearly, the interaction of big economies. I think too much of the
:49:13. > :49:17.Government's rhetoric and policy presumes that somehow we can
:49:17. > :49:23.develop our economy in a way that is isolated from changes in the
:49:23. > :49:26.rest of the world, and changes in Europe. The second... Labour said
:49:26. > :49:32.that, you could have chartered a different course and we would have
:49:32. > :49:36.been able to override the problems in the eurozone and global economy?
:49:36. > :49:42.No, what we have argued is the importance of getting growth into
:49:42. > :49:47.the economy by getting people off unemployment and back into work. It
:49:47. > :49:53.links back to the discussion we had a little while ago. Jobs are the
:49:53. > :50:00.key, absolutely. But politicians, I am sorry, are rubbish at creating
:50:00. > :50:05.jobs, or determining where an economy should grow. We listen to
:50:05. > :50:11.David Cameron, he talks about rebalancing. Good luck to him,
:50:11. > :50:17.because that is not how capitalism works. Yes, growth is key, but how
:50:17. > :50:22.do you create growth? We talk about growth creation, but people don't
:50:22. > :50:25.have cash, a Government doesn't have cash. The only area that has
:50:25. > :50:30.cash his businesses. They are not spending because they are terrified
:50:30. > :50:35.of the world. They're not spending, Ming Campbell, because consumers
:50:35. > :50:39.are not spending. People on spending because their wages are
:50:39. > :50:44.frozen and standards of living is being squeezed, so we won't move
:50:44. > :50:49.out of the situation we are? It is not just about companies holding on
:50:49. > :50:53.to their cash reserves, it is about banks being reluctant to support
:50:53. > :50:57.what are perfectly viable alternatives. It is right to state
:50:57. > :51:02.governments don't create jobs, but we have created more than one
:51:02. > :51:07.million new jobs in this economy in the last two and a half years. We
:51:07. > :51:13.have moved from being outside the top 10 of the most competitive
:51:13. > :51:20.countries in the world, into 8th place. I hate to use the words,
:51:20. > :51:27.green shoots, but there are events taking place which are consistent
:51:27. > :51:34.with turning the corner. Louise Cooper, interest rates held at 0.5%,
:51:34. > :51:38.can you see that continuing? ever. Pretty much. A new governor
:51:38. > :51:41.of the Bank of England won't be changing that, not that he can on
:51:41. > :51:44.his own? Know. Now, spare a thought for the Shadow
:51:44. > :51:47.Health Secretary, Andy Burnham, who's spent the New Year fending
:51:47. > :51:49.off accusations that he's a cereal killer. No he's not been stalking
:51:49. > :51:53.the streets of Westminster, knocking off the government, he
:51:53. > :51:56.just doesn't like certain types of breakfast food. In fact he'd like
:51:56. > :51:59.some of them to be banned. Mr Burnham isn't the only politician
:51:59. > :52:09.concerned about our eating habits. This morning the government
:52:09. > :52:12.
:52:12. > :52:18.Honestly, you lot! What are you putting into your bodies. Let me
:52:19. > :52:25.show you. Come on, this is the amount of fat in the whole pizza.
:52:25. > :52:30.17 tubes of sugar in that fizzy drink. Too many hidden nasties can
:52:30. > :52:34.create dangerous levels of fat in your body which can lead to stroke,
:52:34. > :52:38.Type 2 diabetes and cancer. Well, the Health Minister, Anna
:52:38. > :52:42.Sourby is out in the healthy outdoors.
:52:42. > :52:46.What are your aims with this campaign? It is to provide
:52:46. > :52:50.information to people, make them aware of some of the stuff that is
:52:50. > :52:55.in your food which does not do you an awful lot of good if you eat too
:52:55. > :53:00.much of it. People can make healthier choices, so we can live
:53:00. > :53:05.longer lives. Or ignore it? Absolutely, it is their choice. It
:53:05. > :53:11.is not up to politicians to tell people what they should eat. That
:53:11. > :53:15.is why Andy Burnham got himself into a mess at the weekend. The
:53:15. > :53:22.responsibility for your diet lies as you as an individual, and you as
:53:22. > :53:29.a parent. That is the primary responsibility. Businesses, traders,
:53:29. > :53:33.retailers, also bear responsibility, but the port of call first of all
:53:33. > :53:37.is ordinary people. We are pointing out to them about the stuff you
:53:37. > :53:42.have heard in the advert, so they can make better choices when they
:53:42. > :53:47.shop. It we have to tackle obesity, and you want to make people eat
:53:47. > :53:53.more healthily, why not do what Andy Burnham suggests, ban the high
:53:53. > :53:57.sugar content, and high salt content Sea reels? It is a daft
:53:57. > :54:04.idea. If it was a great idea he would have done it when his party
:54:04. > :54:10.was in Government. We inherited serious high levels of obesity.
:54:10. > :54:14.There has not been much changed since 2010. I don't think he did it
:54:14. > :54:18.because in his heart he knows it is not the sort of ball at he thought
:54:18. > :54:23.it was. When you introduce legislation aimed at children's
:54:23. > :54:30.breakfast cereals, the first thing that starts off is defined
:54:30. > :54:37.Children's breakfast cereals, is he going to have "adult only's cereal
:54:37. > :54:43.boxes? You take all cereals and say they shouldn't be more than 30%
:54:43. > :54:50.content of sugar and salt. As soon as you do that, used a 29% is OK.
:54:50. > :54:56.It is a start. No, people in the real world thing, 20%, 29%, have
:54:56. > :55:01.three bowlfuls and it won't do you any harm Bostock we want to let --
:55:01. > :55:05.get people to look at what they eat over the course of a week, a month,
:55:05. > :55:10.look at the bad stuff, take it out and just eat good, wholesome food,
:55:10. > :55:16.which you can do on a budget in difficult times. We have recipe
:55:16. > :55:24.ideas. It is easy for people sometimes to sneer at that. It you
:55:24. > :55:28.look and what we had done so far with Change4Life, which was done at
:55:28. > :55:34.2007 with a cost of �80 million, it has begun to influence and make
:55:35. > :55:39.change. We need to get it across all sections of society. That's why
:55:39. > :55:43.this campaign on ITV in the Coronation Street break is good,
:55:43. > :55:46.and it shouldn't be slagged off by Labour.
:55:46. > :55:51.I've got some Daily Politics own brand favourites here, let's get
:55:51. > :55:59.our political panel's verdict on their nutritional value. Just
:55:59. > :56:04.before we do that, do you like the idea of Government recipes? We go
:56:04. > :56:13.back to the Second World War and have Walton pike. Which consisted
:56:13. > :56:22.of all of the vegetables nobody light, with pastry on the top.
:56:22. > :56:32.do have our own brand stuff here. This is dairy Neil. How is he?
:56:32. > :56:32.
:56:33. > :56:40.is on his way back. How many grams of fat, in 100 grams
:56:40. > :56:50.do you think is in this? It will be this much, I would think. About
:56:50. > :57:06.
:57:06. > :57:11.250? 530. Very good. 530 calories. JoCo Pops - per 100g: 387 calories.
:57:11. > :57:21.The Deep Pan Pizza? Just one piece of that a 100 grams, how many
:57:21. > :57:23.
:57:23. > :57:28.calories do you think? 250. Very good. I had just lost over two
:57:28. > :57:33.stone on a lighter like diet. It has worked for me and I believe in
:57:33. > :57:39.educating people that you are what you eat. Should we ban certain
:57:39. > :57:44.food? Of course not. We should certainly be looking at what action
:57:44. > :57:50.has to be taken to tackle obesity. Everyone agrees with that, but
:57:50. > :57:55.should you go further and start banning? He worked with the food
:57:55. > :57:59.industry and if it failed, like we did, it took 10 years to get a
:57:59. > :58:08.proper strategy on banning advertising of cigarettes. These
:58:08. > :58:17.things take time. It is brave to raise this issue is. And in tandem
:58:17. > :58:22.with what you eat, the school sport exercise, persuading women that
:58:22. > :58:32.Jessica Ennis is a role model. about the answer to the quiz. What
:58:32. > :58:33.
:58:33. > :58:39.does he listened to when he is jogging? Tony Blair. It was in the
:58:39. > :58:44.papers yesterday Bulls star it is Tony Blair's autobiography.
:58:44. > :58:48.That is all to date. Thanks to our guests. The news is starting on BBC