16/01/2013

:00:42. > :00:46.Morning, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. Spare a thought for

:00:46. > :00:51.call me Dave, the poor PM is being shouted at for more sides about,

:00:51. > :00:55.you've guessed it, Europe. This morning the so-called Fresh Start

:00:55. > :00:58.group of Conservative MPs told Mr Cameron they wanted the complete

:00:58. > :01:04.repatriation of key powers from the EU and would not settle for

:01:04. > :01:09.anything else. Fighting talk. Ken Clarke is a bit worried. He is

:01:09. > :01:13.concerned the PM may accidentally open the door to a British exit.

:01:13. > :01:18.His medical innovation being stifled by the law? Maurice Saatchi

:01:18. > :01:23.will explain why he thinks so. Hold your horses for PMQs, when we

:01:23. > :01:28.will be examining the contents of the 12 o'clock Westminster Stakes -

:01:28. > :01:32.or should that be Shergar burgers?! If that has -- if that is not

:01:32. > :01:37.enough to whet your appetite, we have a bookie on hand to spice

:01:37. > :01:43.things up. For the first time I will be taking

:01:43. > :01:47.bets on the number of times Speaker Bercow interrupts PMQs.

:01:47. > :01:52.We are all waiting for Speaker Bercow! We speak of nothing else.

:01:52. > :01:56.That is coming up in the next 90 minutes. We are joined for the

:01:56. > :01:59.duration by Shadow Foreign Secretary Douglas Alexander and

:01:59. > :02:03.Health Minister Dan Poulter. If you have just joined us on BBC Two this

:02:03. > :02:07.morning, Scotland Yard have confirmed that two people died

:02:07. > :02:11.early after a helicopter crashed at rush-hour just across the river

:02:11. > :02:15.from our studio in Westminster in the Vauxhall area. It is a very

:02:15. > :02:20.misty morning in Central London. Police say it appeared the

:02:20. > :02:27.helicopter hit a crane on top of a new block of high-rise flats. It is

:02:27. > :02:32.not yet complete. That was at about 8am. As well as two fatalities,

:02:32. > :02:36.nine injured people have been taken to hospital, one is said to be in a

:02:36. > :02:42.critical condition. If there are any more developments we will keep

:02:42. > :02:47.you up-to-date. In a speech this evening, Health

:02:47. > :02:51.Secretary Jeremy Hunt will say he wants the NHS to be paperless by

:02:51. > :02:56.2018. The first step would be to give people online access to health

:02:56. > :03:00.records by 20th March 15. By April 2018, any crucial health

:03:00. > :03:04.information should be able to staff at the touch of a button. It is a

:03:04. > :03:09.lovely idea, but in terms of IT revolutions, haven't we heard this

:03:09. > :03:14.before and why would this be more successful? There was a very good

:03:14. > :03:18.idea to set up, if you like, a national database for NHS IT.

:03:18. > :03:25.Unfortunately that did not work well for a number of reasons, we

:03:25. > :03:28.did not involve front line professionals in designing the

:03:28. > :03:32.service -- it did not involve. Jeremy this morning is making sure

:03:32. > :03:36.the database will be driven at a local level so that different parts

:03:36. > :03:39.of local health care can talk together effectively, so someone

:03:39. > :03:43.being picked up in an ambulance, patient details will be available

:03:43. > :03:47.to the paramedics, saving the time of a lot of my medical colleagues

:03:47. > :03:52.and also it will mean that patients are treated in a more timely and

:03:52. > :03:55.effective manner, particularly in emergencies. Looking at the Labour

:03:55. > :04:00.record and NHS IT projects, it has not been amazing and does not

:04:00. > :04:07.inspire confidence. My first reaction would be, I would not take

:04:07. > :04:13.the risk? Of course we want the NHS to innovate, but we need to make

:04:13. > :04:16.difficult choices about priorities, especially given how tight budgets

:04:16. > :04:20.are. The Care Quality Commission said that there were 17 hospitals

:04:20. > :04:25.with unsafe staffing levels, so I am sure viewers would think that

:04:25. > :04:29.would be a priority. Isn't that more of an issue for patients,

:04:29. > :04:33.rather than trying to make it paperless? As a doctor, I know

:04:33. > :04:36.paperless records will make it better for patient care. I will

:04:36. > :04:41.have more time to spend with patients rather than chasing around

:04:41. > :04:46.the hospital corridors where the paper records are in different

:04:47. > :04:49.apartments or phoning up the GP, I will have them in front of me and

:04:49. > :04:54.it will save a lot of time and I can affect patients more

:04:54. > :04:58.effectively and quickly, especially in an emergency. On staffing, it

:04:58. > :05:01.has always been the case that some hospitals are managed very well,

:05:02. > :05:08.the vast majority are managed exceptionally well and have very

:05:08. > :05:14.high quality staff, and the right number. But the CQC flag up that

:05:14. > :05:19.there are problems and concerns in 17 hospitals. Those hospitals need

:05:19. > :05:24.to to be flagged up, the directors of those hospitals need to make

:05:24. > :05:29.sure that patient care is achieved. Surely Labour supports the idea of

:05:29. > :05:36.saving money in terms of what you might call back of his style

:05:36. > :05:41.operations? It could save �4.4 billion. -- back office style

:05:41. > :05:44.operations? This Government is spending billions on an unwanted,

:05:44. > :05:49.indeed, a reorganisation of the NHS from the top down that was

:05:49. > :05:53.explicitly denied before the election. If you want real savings,

:05:53. > :05:58.surely the priority is not spending billions on an unwanted

:05:58. > :06:04.organisation, it is ensuring safe levels of staffing. There are 7000

:06:04. > :06:07.less nurses today than in 20th May 10. We should consider how the NHS

:06:07. > :06:11.can innovate and be strengthened for the future, but the priority

:06:11. > :06:15.must be safe staffing in the NHS and making sure that patients are

:06:15. > :06:20.getting the care that they need. it much more widespread than you

:06:20. > :06:26.said? The CQC have five to problems of local hospitals in the past. The

:06:26. > :06:29.Labour government made it a requirement that you must use a

:06:29. > :06:35.Freedom of Information request to get information, we want to see

:06:35. > :06:38.more transparency in the NHS. At a local level, where we are seeing

:06:38. > :06:42.Chief Executives not prioritising frontline care, it is right we

:06:42. > :06:49.should expose those hospitals and pressure should be brought to bear.

:06:49. > :06:52.This IT project is about to delivering savings to the NHS. It

:06:52. > :06:55.is �4 billion of savings. A big challenge was set under the

:06:55. > :07:00.previous government, just to continue to deliver the same high

:07:00. > :07:09.quality of patient care, we need to make savings and put that into the

:07:09. > :07:12.front line. It will save �1.5 billion a year, these IT savings

:07:12. > :07:17.will save �4 billion and allow doctors to spend more time with

:07:17. > :07:23.patients. Let me ask you about something broadcast in the news

:07:23. > :07:27.this morning, traces of horsemeat found in value beefburgers. Tesco

:07:27. > :07:32.was named. What is your reaction? It was very concerning foreign

:07:32. > :07:35.number of reasons. It is also the fact that there is potentially pork

:07:35. > :07:41.found in beefburgers, and we know people for religious reasons may

:07:41. > :07:44.not wish to eat pork. That was another concern. We know as we

:07:44. > :07:49.understand at the moment there are no soap... No public safety

:07:49. > :07:52.concerns, but the Food Standards Agency are investigating and we

:07:52. > :07:56.must make sure that they investigate quickly. It is

:07:56. > :08:01.important that consumers can make an informed choice, that is what we

:08:01. > :08:05.all want to do, particularly for groups affected. Why did it take

:08:05. > :08:08.the Irish to discover this? Why didn't the British Food Standards

:08:08. > :08:13.Authority identified that this was a problem in the supply chain,

:08:13. > :08:18.ending up in stores like Tesco and ASDA in the United Kingdom? Serious

:08:18. > :08:22.questions must be asked of the Food Standards Authority.

:08:23. > :08:25.If you have been an underground bunkers and Christmas you may not

:08:25. > :08:30.know that the Prime Minister is about to make a key, key, key

:08:30. > :08:34.speech about our relationship with our European cousins across la

:08:34. > :08:37.Manche. Ahead of his speech on Friday you may not be surprised to

:08:37. > :08:42.learn that the Prime Minister has been lobbied by every Conservative

:08:42. > :08:49.Tom, Dick and Harry about what to say. The Deputy Prime Minister has

:08:49. > :08:53.stuck his oar in. Let's go to Captain JoCo, who can preview.

:08:53. > :08:57.Here is David Cameron's battle plan. Tomorrow evening the Prime Minister

:08:57. > :09:03.will drop quietly into Holland as Operation Common Market Garden gets

:09:03. > :09:10.under way. Then Addo 900 hours on Friday morning the action begins. -

:09:10. > :09:15.- then acts 0900 hours. David Cameron's trips include the Fresh

:09:15. > :09:20.Start group of MPs, who are in no mood to take prisoners, demanding a

:09:20. > :09:24.complete repatriation of social and employment law, an opt-out from all

:09:24. > :09:27.existing policing and criminal justice measures, an emergency

:09:27. > :09:32.brake on any new regulation of financial services and changes to

:09:32. > :09:36.the EU agricultural, fishing and regional policies. Ken Clarke has

:09:36. > :09:39.described David Cameron's raid on the EU as a gamble. Can the Prime

:09:40. > :09:43.Minister link-up with friendly forces and deliver a tactical

:09:43. > :09:48.withdrawal from Europe in these areas, or is the plan overly

:09:49. > :09:54.ambitious? Let's go to the Central lobby in

:09:54. > :09:58.Parliament, where -- where the chair of the conservative Fresh

:09:59. > :10:03.Start group Andrea Leadsom joins us. Good morning. Let me ask you this,

:10:04. > :10:07.you're not calling for Britain to withdraw from the EU? Correct, we

:10:07. > :10:13.think Britain should be in the EU, but we want a better settlement for

:10:13. > :10:17.Britain. You have outlined a number of areas where you want power was

:10:17. > :10:21.repatriated. Have you spoken to any of your political counterparts in

:10:21. > :10:28.the other 26 member states about how they may react to these

:10:28. > :10:32.demands? Yes, we've had a number of conversations over many months.

:10:32. > :10:36.What not many people in this country ever see reported is people

:10:36. > :10:39.like the Dutch Prime Minister is already talking about doing a

:10:39. > :10:44.balance of competencies review in the Netherlands to look at areas

:10:44. > :10:48.where perhaps the EU is doing stuff it should not, and where it should

:10:48. > :10:51.perhaps be repatriated to member states. I don't think we are alone

:10:51. > :10:55.by any means. Are you saying the Dutch want the complete

:10:55. > :10:59.repatriation of all social and employment law, a complete opt out

:10:59. > :11:05.of existing policing and criminal justice measures? Are you claiming

:11:05. > :11:11.that is the Dutch position? No. But the Fresh Start manifesto is a

:11:11. > :11:16.culmination of 18 months of research into 11 EU policy headings.

:11:16. > :11:20.We are trying to set out what would be a significant renegotiation from

:11:20. > :11:23.Britain's point of view, but what could also get some support from

:11:23. > :11:30.other EU member states who also have problems with the particular

:11:30. > :11:34.areas highlighted. We have limited our calls to five treaty

:11:34. > :11:38.negotiations, but another raft of reforms that could be achieved

:11:38. > :11:41.within existing treaties. This is a huge piece of research we are

:11:41. > :11:45.giving to the Prime Minister and other thinkers in this area which

:11:45. > :11:50.has a contribution to the debate about what sort of renegotiation we

:11:50. > :11:55.want. And I am sure he is very grateful! You have admitted it

:11:55. > :12:00.would require a number of treaty changes, some quite substantial.

:12:00. > :12:04.That requires the unanimous support of the other 26 countries, so it

:12:04. > :12:09.would only take one to say no, we are not going down this road, and

:12:10. > :12:12.you are stymied? Yes, but the status quo is not an option. The

:12:12. > :12:17.eurozone has to move down the path of ever greater fiscal union

:12:17. > :12:22.because of the financial crisis. They have set themselves off on

:12:22. > :12:27.that journey. Britain as a non-Euro member, along with other non-Euro

:12:27. > :12:33.members, has to articulate what sort of relationship we wanted

:12:33. > :12:40.going forward with the EU. This is a contribution to that. What are

:12:41. > :12:45.you prepared to trade at to get you demand? What will you give? Britain

:12:45. > :12:49.is a major EU contributor, one of the big three contributors to the

:12:49. > :12:54.Budget. We have lead in a number of areas, particularly in moves

:12:54. > :13:02.towards... What will you give in negotiations? The eurozone needs to

:13:02. > :13:06.move be -- moves towards fiscal union. As and when there is another

:13:06. > :13:10.treaty, which Barroso says is soon and other politicians say they will

:13:10. > :13:14.avoid, if another treaty negotiation happens, the eurozone

:13:14. > :13:18.will be looking to Britain to support their need, which we do

:13:18. > :13:24.support, for greater fiscal union. Bad at the same time Britain should

:13:24. > :13:27.look for what will work better as a new settlement for British people.

:13:27. > :13:31.Supposing British Government goes to Europe and tries to meet your

:13:31. > :13:35.agenda and repatriate most of what you have in this document and comes

:13:36. > :13:40.back and says, actually, they are not interested, they don't want to

:13:40. > :13:45.give us anything, it is the status quo or nothing, what would your

:13:45. > :13:51.attitude be? I I don't accept the premise. Why would they say that?

:13:51. > :13:55.Indulge me, what would you do? not really inclined to indulge you.

:13:55. > :13:59.You are suggesting they would say get lost, we are happy for Britain

:14:00. > :14:03.to leave the EU. They would not discuss anything. Would you be up

:14:04. > :14:09.for leaving if you can't get this agenda? I don't believe it would

:14:09. > :14:14.come to that. But if it did? think it is extremely unhelpful to

:14:14. > :14:18.talk about leaving. Precisely what Nick Clegg said this week, the Big

:14:18. > :14:21.Chill. We are in a position now where the Conservative Party is

:14:22. > :14:25.very united behind the need for reform, we don't want to leave the

:14:25. > :14:28.European Union, it would be a disaster for the British economy so

:14:28. > :14:32.we don't want to go there. Discussing it when there is no need,

:14:32. > :14:37.I don't think that is helpful. will leave it there.

:14:37. > :14:40.Let's come back into the studio. Dan Poulter, David Cameron once

:14:40. > :14:45.warned Conservative MPs to stop banging on about Europe, these are

:14:45. > :14:51.his exact words. How is that going? At the moment we have a situation

:14:51. > :14:55.where we have a party that is broadly of a mind that we believe

:14:55. > :14:59.that our interests are best served being in Europe. There are lots of

:14:59. > :15:03.benefits we have. We need to be part of the trading bloc in Europe.

:15:03. > :15:09.Do you support all these things that she wants to repatriate?

:15:09. > :15:13.not looked into it in great detail. Social and employment law, existing

:15:13. > :15:17.police and criminal justice measures, any new legislation

:15:17. > :15:21.affecting financial services. are legitimate concerns. On

:15:21. > :15:24.employment law I have seen in the NHS the previous government signed

:15:24. > :15:28.up to the European Working Time Directive, which has badly affected

:15:28. > :15:34.the continuity of care. So there are things, and the Prime Minister

:15:34. > :15:38.has made clear, that we want to renegotiate with Europe. The Prime

:15:38. > :15:42.Minister will set that out very clearly. He has been telling us for

:15:42. > :15:51.weeks, six weeks, it feels like six months. Do you support the Fresh

:15:51. > :15:55.I fully support the fact we need to look at what powers are in Europe

:15:55. > :15:59.and which powers... That's your Government's policy. I am asking if

:15:59. > :16:04.you support the powers that Fresh Start have said they want

:16:04. > :16:08.repatriated? There are some things they have outlined and I have given

:16:08. > :16:11.you an example of the European work time directive where there are

:16:11. > :16:14.concerns that we have expressed as a Government - we have expressed. I

:16:14. > :16:19.haven't seen the full list and in detail but there are clearly issues

:16:19. > :16:24.that have been raised by that group. It's been in the papers for days,

:16:24. > :16:28.what have you been doing? I do read the papers, but until it was

:16:28. > :16:31.outlined properly, I have have to analyse it, as you will later on.

:16:31. > :16:35.have read it. Look into detail at what they've said and we will take

:16:35. > :16:38.a judgment. But the point is that there are things within that group

:16:38. > :16:41.have outlined which the Prime Minister has highlighted, this

:16:41. > :16:46.Government has highlighted. We fully agree... I understand that.

:16:46. > :16:51.How often do your constituents raise the common fisheries policy?

:16:51. > :16:56.I have had letters about the fisheries policy. How often? I am

:16:56. > :17:00.not a coastal constituency so I haven't had in the past very many

:17:00. > :17:04.representations about that. Would you tell us one other country of

:17:04. > :17:07.the remaining 26 members of the European Union that supports the

:17:08. > :17:11.British approach? We just heard from Andrea that in other countries

:17:11. > :17:15.in the European Union, the Dutch, for example, agree that there are

:17:15. > :17:21.powers that need to be repatriated. They don't agree with the full list

:17:21. > :17:25.of Fresh Start. Mr Rutt, I think his name is, isn't even going, we

:17:25. > :17:28.understand, to listen to Mr Cameron, even though he will be in the

:17:28. > :17:31.Netherlands. It's clear there are a number of countries in Europe that

:17:32. > :17:35.have concerns that too many powers have been centralised, that there's

:17:35. > :17:38.been too much centralisation of powers too fast and too quickly and

:17:38. > :17:44.that's not in the interest, not just of Britain but other nation

:17:44. > :17:48.states. Name me one other than the Dutch? We said Holland. Another?

:17:48. > :17:54.Other countries that have raised concerns. Almost every country...

:17:54. > :17:57.Name one! Every country in Europe has politicians who have raised

:17:57. > :18:01.concerns absolutely about the fact that there are - that Europe has

:18:01. > :18:05.had too many centralised powers and that we need to - all countries

:18:05. > :18:11.realise that there is a legitimate debate about having more powers in

:18:11. > :18:15.the British national centre back... You just can't tell me one. Douglas

:18:15. > :18:19.Alexander, if you don't want a referendum on Europe, you should

:18:19. > :18:22.vote Labour? You should vote Labour for a number of reasons. On that

:18:22. > :18:26.issue? Well, we will set out our manifesto in due course but we are

:18:26. > :18:29.clear and we stand along with senior business leaders actually on

:18:29. > :18:34.this point with Michael Heseltine, and Nick Clegg and others in saying

:18:34. > :18:38.to commit now to an in-out referendum is not just bad for

:18:38. > :18:41.British investment, creating economic uncertainty but bad for

:18:41. > :18:45.influence within Europe. Change is coming to Europe, on that there is

:18:45. > :18:48.common ground between Andrea and myself. Will Labour rule out a

:18:48. > :18:52.referendum at the next election? Well, we do not believe now is the

:18:52. > :18:57.time to commit to an in-out referendum. Are you saying there is

:18:57. > :19:00.any circumstances in the future? He is announcing as we anticipate,

:19:00. > :19:06.depending on whether the speech is delivered on Friday, that he will

:19:06. > :19:09.commit to an in-out referendum we expect around 2018. Will you commit

:19:09. > :19:12.to a referendum at the next election? We are saying what Ed

:19:12. > :19:16.Miliband said on Sunday, we do not believe now is the time to commit

:19:16. > :19:21.to an in-out referendum in 2018 or beyond. You rule out a referendum

:19:21. > :19:24.for the foreseeable future? We are clear that in the present

:19:24. > :19:28.circumstances we do in the believe that a referendum is justified.

:19:29. > :19:32.What about another kind of referendum? Is Labour in favour of

:19:32. > :19:35.repatriating any powers. In terms of other referendums, it's the law

:19:35. > :19:38.of the the land and reaccept that, if there is any significant

:19:38. > :19:43.transfer of sovereignty from Britain to Brussels under the

:19:43. > :19:46.referendum act there will be a referendum. You won't repeal that

:19:46. > :19:50.legislation. We will see how the legislation operates. We have given

:19:50. > :19:55.no commitment to repeal that legislation. If there is a new

:19:55. > :19:57.treaty which involves a substantial movement of power from London to

:19:57. > :20:02.Brussels, you will have a referendum? Well, the Government of

:20:02. > :20:09.the day would have a referendum, yes. Not if you repeal the law.

:20:09. > :20:11.have not given a commitment. That's different from saying you won't

:20:11. > :20:15.repeal the law. We will look at how that legislation operates in

:20:15. > :20:22.practice, that's what we said when the legislation passed. If you are

:20:22. > :20:25.asking me to commit to repeal the legislation... The only way you can

:20:25. > :20:28.see the legislation in operation is by having a referendum. You can see

:20:28. > :20:31.how it affects Britain's capacity to answer some of the questions you

:20:31. > :20:34.were asking Andrea. Are we in a position where we can have a

:20:34. > :20:38.genuine negotiation with other European partners about how Europe

:20:38. > :20:43.changes? My real concern is that notwithstanding the reasonableness

:20:43. > :20:46.of how Andrea presents the case, there is still still an unbridgable

:20:46. > :20:51.gap between what the Conservative Party will insist upon and what

:20:51. > :20:55.other European leaders can concede. What powers would Labour

:20:55. > :21:00.repatriate? In relation to state aids, for example, in relation to

:21:00. > :21:03.regional policies there are grounds to look at whether those powers

:21:03. > :21:05.better held within individual states. In the last Government we

:21:05. > :21:09.made the case in relation to regional policy there was a case

:21:09. > :21:12.for powers coming back to the United Kingdom and in that sense we

:21:12. > :21:17.will take a pragmatic view. We are not saying no to any powers coming

:21:17. > :21:21.back from Brussels. We are saying if you set this up... It's not a

:21:21. > :21:24.big issue, is it? If you set it up as an agenda for what we can take

:21:24. > :21:28.back from Brussels you are left with a question that you posed,

:21:28. > :21:32.which is what if other nations say no? If you have a broad agenda of

:21:32. > :21:37.reform rather than a narrow agenda of repatriation you are more likely

:21:37. > :21:40.to get an outcome that works for Britain and is accepted. Is no

:21:40. > :21:46.repatriation and no referendum. have given you an example, regional

:21:46. > :21:48.policy and state aids. That would be part of a general agreement.

:21:49. > :21:52.any reckoning, even David Cameron would accept this there are broader

:21:52. > :21:55.changes coming to Europe. repatriation initiative and no

:21:55. > :21:59.referendum. I have given you two examples of where we said that we

:21:59. > :22:05.would be willing and indeed support powers coming back. It's not true

:22:05. > :22:09.to say no repatriation. I am still not clear on that, but that's

:22:09. > :22:13.probably just me. Only a few more days to go until the great speech!

:22:13. > :22:20.The pain will be over, temporarily. Now, Prime Ministers questions is

:22:20. > :22:22.often described as a lottery for Mr Cameron and Miliband, each man's

:22:22. > :22:27.political future balancing on the turn of a question. Apparently

:22:27. > :22:33.that's not enough of a gamble for some. A well-known book-maker is

:22:33. > :22:37.placing bets on today's questions questions. Being the BBC, we take

:22:37. > :22:42.our values seriously, but we are not going to tell you which bookie,

:22:42. > :22:45.but I can tell you that we have someone called Paddy in the studio.

:22:45. > :22:55.Other book-makers are available. What are you doing? Taking bets the

:22:55. > :22:57.number of times The Speaker interruts. -- interpruts. We have -

:22:58. > :23:01.- interrupts questions. We have come up with the idea that we

:23:01. > :23:06.reckon it will be between two or three interruptions that will

:23:06. > :23:11.happen today in PMQs. It might make watching questions more interesting.

:23:11. > :23:14.Right. A huge talking point most weeks in this studio, John Bercow

:23:14. > :23:19.interventions. How are you going to define an intervention? Obviously,

:23:19. > :23:22.it's not easy, he has to stop proceedings to be considered an

:23:22. > :23:28.intervention. So a significant stop and if he is watching this he might

:23:28. > :23:36.want to have a bet himself and he can affect the outcome of that.

:23:36. > :23:39.will be watching closely. Not wanting - - do you think this is

:23:39. > :23:43.treuflising parliament? It makes it more engaging for people who want

:23:43. > :23:47.to watch and it's what people are talking about and speculating. Some

:23:48. > :23:52.people think he likes the sound of his own voice too much. This is a

:23:52. > :23:58.chance for people to put their money where their mouth is. What do

:23:58. > :24:02.you think of the idea? I am afraid I can say I have never placed a bet

:24:02. > :24:06.in my life. Could this be the first time? I wouldn't know thousand fill

:24:06. > :24:12.in a betting slip if I walked into a bookies. I am sure we could find

:24:12. > :24:16.someone to help you. What about you, Dan Dan Poulter? I am not a betting

:24:16. > :24:21.man either. I am a great man of John Bercow but I would be going

:24:21. > :24:28.for three or more. Exactly how many times do you think? Two sounds

:24:28. > :24:34.fairly modest. How many times do you go for? Three. That's quite a

:24:34. > :24:39.lot. He always does one because he likes the sound of his own voice.

:24:39. > :24:48.Sour sin sale -- you are so cynical, Andrew. What are you going for? I

:24:48. > :24:52.think he only does one. One, three and more than three. He can't

:24:52. > :24:57.interrupt more than three times! We will be speaking to you later.

:24:57. > :25:01.It's hard to know what to trust these days. HMV gift vouchers that

:25:01. > :25:07.won't buy you a Lembit Opik DVD. Beefburgers that may have more than

:25:07. > :25:10.a passing acquaintance with the winner of the 2.30 at Doncaster.

:25:10. > :25:17.It's good to know there's always something you can that rely on. Yes

:25:17. > :25:23.you have guessed it, the Daily Politics mug, crafted lovingly by

:25:23. > :25:30.little BBC elves and fired in the kiln of free-flowing political

:25:30. > :25:35.discourse. It's free from ekwaeupb -- equine DNA, I am told. It can be

:25:35. > :25:42.euros if you can answer just -- it can be yours if you can answer one

:25:42. > :25:52.question. You would be a horse's derriere to miss. It. -- to miss it.

:25:52. > :26:05.

:26:05. > :26:11.Let's see if you can remember when # I don't feel like dancing

:26:11. > :26:14.# My heart could take a chance #. Storming to victory in Labour's

:26:14. > :26:24.heartlands, there's hardly any seat in the country that will be safe

:26:24. > :26:26.

:26:26. > :26:36.and Gordon Brown must be quaking in # Does that make me crazy

:26:36. > :27:04.

:27:04. > :27:14.To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug you can send

:27:14. > :27:15.

:27:15. > :27:20.your answer to our special e-mail address. You can see the full terms

:27:20. > :27:25.and conditions on our website. It's coming up to midday. There's Big

:27:25. > :27:31.Ben behind me. It's a cold winter's day here but quite bright. Prime

:27:31. > :27:34.Ministers questions are on the way and Nick Robinson is here. We have

:27:34. > :27:37.been talking about Europe. Think we are going to hear more about it in

:27:37. > :27:42.and in a way it's dominated this week and it's worth pausing to

:27:42. > :27:45.think how cure curious this is. We are debating, and I think they will

:27:45. > :27:48.debate in a few minutes, a speech that's yet to be delivered about a

:27:48. > :27:51.decision that will be taken for an election that hasn't yet been

:27:51. > :27:55.called, about a treaty change that may not happen, because other

:27:55. > :27:58.European countries may not agree to it, about a negotiation that hasn't

:27:58. > :28:03.been started that Britain might not succeed in and what might then

:28:03. > :28:06.happen in that referendum. It is a pretty curious position we have

:28:06. > :28:10.ourselves into. It seems all parties have a problem on this. The

:28:10. > :28:13.Tories have the biggest problem, of course, because of the danger of

:28:13. > :28:17.disappointing one faction or another. That's why David Cameron

:28:17. > :28:21.for so long said he wouldn't talk about this subject at all. William

:28:21. > :28:25.Hague refers to the issue of Europe as a ticking timebomb underneath

:28:25. > :28:28.the Conservative Party. But forgive me, I was watching Douglas

:28:28. > :28:31.Alexander, too. The Labour Party don't want to tell you whether they

:28:31. > :28:36.will have a referendum or not, whether they're ruling it out or in.

:28:36. > :28:40.They want to essentially watch the Government's difficultying and say

:28:40. > :28:43.-- difficulties, and say, on you go, why don't you make a mess of it and

:28:43. > :28:48.we will tell you what we will do in a couple of years. Given there is

:28:48. > :28:53.not a majority in the Commons for a big repatriation strategy because

:28:53. > :28:56.Lib and the Lib Dems won't vote against it why does Mr Cameron not

:28:56. > :29:00.just wait until the election manifesto? Why does he have to lay

:29:01. > :29:06.out a stall now? Why doesn't he say I am with you, chaps and lasses, I

:29:06. > :29:13.am on your side on the Tory Party in this but we haven't got a

:29:13. > :29:16.majority. Let's get it right in the manifesto? One word answer - trust.

:29:16. > :29:22.Three-word, lack of trust. His party doesn't trust him because the

:29:22. > :29:25.fact he posed as a eurosceptic and - remember that row about who the

:29:25. > :29:28.Tories sat with in Europe in parliament, because he said let's

:29:28. > :29:32.have a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty and said actually I didn't

:29:32. > :29:36.mean now have a referendum on the treaty. The truth is his own party

:29:36. > :29:38.don't trust him on it. So there would be a strategy that any Prime

:29:38. > :29:41.Minister would want to follow, which is we are not sure how things

:29:41. > :29:44.are going to change, we are sure they are, we will get back to you

:29:44. > :29:49.in a while. Is that all right? The reason he can't do that, the reason

:29:49. > :29:52.he has to give a speech is because at his back are backbenchers saying,

:29:52. > :29:56.we need to know and if you don't give us something we want, we will

:29:56. > :30:00.put our own motion down in the House of Commons and will force it.

:30:00. > :30:04.His His activists are saying, do you know how many of my friends

:30:04. > :30:08.have joined the UK Independence Party? He has twin pressures and

:30:08. > :30:13.his attempt will be to say OK, here is a rationale picture of what the

:30:13. > :30:17.next five years might look like but if he listened to John Major or

:30:17. > :30:21.Margaret Thatcher he might remind himself that it's quite hard to do

:30:21. > :30:25.that, to draw a line in the sand on this issue. All my sources tell me

:30:25. > :30:28.he is not going to give them enough red meat, that he will end up not

:30:28. > :30:33.satisfying anybody. He won't satisfy the remaining pro-Europeans

:30:33. > :30:37.in the Tory Party, because he has raised the issue, they don't want

:30:37. > :30:44.it raised at all and he won't go down the repatriation road that

:30:44. > :30:47.others... I think that group was effectively set up to put the

:30:47. > :30:51.Cameron and Hague strategy... think that's the moderate strategy?

:30:51. > :30:55.They're saying is you create space for us. So the things that I think

:30:55. > :30:59.David Cameron thinks could be and I emphasise could be achievable, is

:30:59. > :31:04.for Britain to say, we will not be part of judicial co-operation, we

:31:04. > :31:07.will get back things like the Working Time Directive, and we will

:31:07. > :31:10.have some protections which even a a Labour Government would fight for

:31:10. > :31:15.if they were there for the City of London and the financial services.

:31:15. > :31:21.Now, issue, question, - would that ever be enough? Answer for some of

:31:21. > :31:24.course, because there is a great spectrum between people who want

:31:24. > :31:27.some protections, and those who have had enough of it and want to

:31:27. > :31:31.get out. The big change since I first started reporting on this, it

:31:31. > :31:36.was the first story I really did as a young producer at the BBC 25

:31:36. > :31:41.years ago, is the split in the Tory Party, it's no longer between pro-

:31:41. > :31:46.Europeans and eurosceptics, it's between eurosceptics and those who

:31:46. > :31:55.want out and those figures who regard themselves as public pro-

:31:55. > :32:01.Europeans, the older generation. he undervails -- veils the stall

:32:01. > :32:11.and it goes quiet for two years. We have had our say. Let's hear what

:32:11. > :32:14.Can I pay tribute to suburb Richard Walker. But it is clear to see from

:32:14. > :32:17.the tributes paid that he was an outstanding soldier and hugely

:32:17. > :32:21.respected, and our deepest sympathies are with his family and

:32:21. > :32:24.friends at this difficult time. I would also like to mention a

:32:24. > :32:29.helicopter crash in Central London this morning. The whole house wish

:32:29. > :32:32.to join me in thanking the emergency services for their rapid

:32:32. > :32:35.and professional response to this situation. This morning I had

:32:35. > :32:38.meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, and in

:32:38. > :32:43.addition to my duties in the House I will have further such meetings

:32:43. > :32:48.today. For too long many women and

:32:48. > :32:53.especially hard-working stay-at- home mums have been penalised by

:32:53. > :32:58.the country's pension system for having interruptions to their

:32:58. > :33:04.National Insurance contributions. After 13 years when the previous

:33:04. > :33:09.government did nothing to redress first, does the Prime Minister

:33:09. > :33:15.think that the announcement this week of a single tear pension will

:33:15. > :33:21.find a league deal with this grave injustice? -- will finally deal

:33:21. > :33:26.with? I think the single deer pension is excellent. I think it

:33:26. > :33:32.will have all-party support, because it holds out the prospects

:33:33. > :33:37.in 2017 of having a basic state pension of over �140 rather than

:33:37. > :33:42.�107, taking millions of people out of the means test, giving them

:33:42. > :33:44.dignity in retirement and particularly, as he said, helping

:33:44. > :33:49.low-paid people, self employed people and, above all, women who

:33:49. > :33:55.have not been able to have a full state pension in the past, to have

:33:55. > :34:00.one. It is an excellent reform. Mr Speaker, can I join the Prime

:34:00. > :34:07.Minister in paying tribute to Sapper Richard Reginald Walker,

:34:07. > :34:11.attached to 21 Engineer Regiment. He showed the utmost courage and

:34:11. > :34:16.bravery. I also joined him in passing on condolences to the

:34:16. > :34:23.families of those who lost their lives in a helicopter crash in

:34:23. > :34:25.London, and paying tribute to the emergency services. When the Prime

:34:25. > :34:31.Minister first became leader of the Conservatives, he said their

:34:31. > :34:37.biggest problem was spending too much time banging on about Europe.

:34:37. > :34:46.Busy but those days are over? LAUGHTER. -- is he glad those days

:34:46. > :34:50.are over? LAUGHTER. I think even the leader of the

:34:50. > :34:55.Labour Party should accept a massive change taking place in

:34:55. > :34:59.Europe. A change driven by the changes in the eurozone. Frankly,

:34:59. > :35:05.this country faces a choice and political parties in this country

:35:05. > :35:08.face a choice, do we look at these changes and see what we can do to

:35:08. > :35:12.maximise Britain's national interest, and do we consult the

:35:12. > :35:17.public about that, or do we sit back, do nothing and tell the

:35:17. > :35:27.public to go hang? I know where I am this party stand, in the

:35:27. > :35:30.

:35:30. > :35:36.national interest of this country. I should congratulate him on having

:35:36. > :35:40.decided on the date of his speech. Well done. Another example of the

:35:40. > :35:45.Rolls Royce operation of Number Ten Downing Street. Now, Mr Speaker, in

:35:45. > :35:49.advance of his speech, what is his answer to this question, which

:35:49. > :35:54.investors need to know? Will Britain be in the European Union in

:35:54. > :35:58.five years' time? On important decisions, can I firstly

:35:58. > :36:05.congratulate him on his important decision this week, to keep the

:36:05. > :36:09.Shadow Chancellor in place until 2015. Rarely do we see so much

:36:09. > :36:15.cross-party support. My view is that Britain is better off in the

:36:15. > :36:20.European Union, but I think it is right for us to use... It is right

:36:20. > :36:25.for us to see the changes taking place in Europe and make sure we

:36:25. > :36:29.are arguing for the changes Britain needs, so therefore we had a better

:36:29. > :36:33.relationship between Britain and Europe, a better organised European

:36:33. > :36:41.Union and the full-hearted consent of the British people. Those are

:36:41. > :36:44.our choices, what are his? Maybe we are making progress. In October

:36:44. > :36:51.2011, I am sure you will remember, he and I walked shoulder to

:36:51. > :36:55.shoulder through the lobby against the 81 members of his party who

:36:55. > :37:02.voted for and in/out referendum. You might call it two parties

:37:02. > :37:06.working together in the national interest, Mr Speaker! The Foreign

:37:06. > :37:09.Secretary said at the time, I think he was on his way to Australia to

:37:09. > :37:14.get as far away as possible from the Prime Minister's speech, he

:37:14. > :37:18.said, the reason for our boat was that an in/out referendum would

:37:18. > :37:24.create additional economic uncertainty at a difficult economic

:37:24. > :37:28.time. Was he right? He was entirely right. It is interesting that the

:37:28. > :37:35.leader of the opposition only wants to talk about process, because he

:37:35. > :37:39.dare not debate the substance. I don't think it would be right for

:37:39. > :37:44.Britain to have an in/out referendum today, because I think

:37:44. > :37:49.we would be given the British people a false choice. -- would be

:37:50. > :37:53.giving the British people. Millions, myself included, want Britain to

:37:53. > :37:57.stay within the European Union but believe there are chances to

:37:58. > :38:02.negotiate a better deal. Countries are looking at forthcoming treaty

:38:02. > :38:06.change and thinking, what can I do to maximise my national interest?

:38:06. > :38:09.That is what the Germans and the Spanish will do, that is what the

:38:09. > :38:19.British should do. Let's get to the substance and give up the feeble

:38:19. > :38:20.

:38:20. > :38:29.First of all, Mr Speaker, I thought the jokes were pretty good. But I

:38:29. > :38:35.am talking about the substance. His position appears to be this, and

:38:35. > :38:41.in/out referendum now would be destabilising, but promising one-

:38:41. > :38:47.in-five years' time is just fine for the country. -- but promising

:38:47. > :38:51.one in five years' time. That is five years of businesses seeing a

:38:51. > :39:01.closed for business sign hanging around Britain. What did Lord

:39:01. > :39:01.

:39:01. > :39:05.Heseltine say? He said, to commit... Dear Lord Heseltine, one mainstream

:39:05. > :39:10.conservative voice, to commit to a referendum about a negotiation that

:39:10. > :39:16.has not begun, and a timescale you can't predict, on an outcome that

:39:16. > :39:20.is unknown, seems to me like an unnecessary gamble. Isn't he right?

:39:20. > :39:24.It is no secret that there are disagreements between myself and

:39:24. > :39:27.Michael Heseltine when it comes to Europe. I have a huge amount of

:39:27. > :39:31.time for Michael, he was one of the leading voices for Britain joining

:39:31. > :39:37.the single currency, and I am delighted we have been joined, and

:39:37. > :39:42.we should not, and under my prime ministership we never will. -- I am

:39:42. > :39:46.delighted we have not joined. What business wants in Europe is what I

:39:46. > :39:50.want, to be part of Europe but a more flexible and competitive

:39:50. > :39:55.Europe, a Europe that can take on the challenge of the global race

:39:55. > :39:58.and the rise of nations in the south and east. I put it to him

:39:58. > :40:03.again, when there is change taking place in Europe, when the single

:40:03. > :40:06.currency is driving change, isn't it in the British national interest

:40:06. > :40:10.to argue for changes that will make the European Union more competitive

:40:11. > :40:14.and flexible, that will strengthen and sort out the British

:40:14. > :40:18.relationship between Britain and the European Union, then to ask the

:40:18. > :40:23.British people for their consent? That is our approach. Apart from

:40:23. > :40:27.coming out with what he considers very amusing jokes, what is his

:40:27. > :40:32.approach? The biggest change we need in Europe is to move from

:40:32. > :40:39.austerity to growth and jobs. And he has absolutely nothing to say

:40:39. > :40:43.about that. And here is the reality, the reason he is changing his mind

:40:43. > :40:48.is nothing to do with the national interest, it is because he has lost

:40:48. > :40:53.control of his party. And the problem is this, he thinks his

:40:53. > :40:56.problems on Europe will end on Friday. They are just beginning.

:40:56. > :41:03.They are just beginning. Can he confirm that he has now given the

:41:03. > :41:06.green light to Conservative cabinet ministers to campaign on different

:41:06. > :41:12.positions on whether they are for or against being in the European

:41:12. > :41:17.Union? He tries to make the point that Europe should somehow be

:41:17. > :41:21.moving off the policy of deficit reduction, he is completely

:41:21. > :41:25.isolated in Europe. There is not one single government, not even

:41:25. > :41:30.socialists in Europe, who believe you should be pushing up borrowing

:41:30. > :41:34.and borrowing more. That is the simple truth. What is in Britain's

:41:34. > :41:37.interest is to seek a fresh settlement in Europe that is more

:41:38. > :41:46.flexible and competitive, that is in our interest and that is what we

:41:46. > :41:49.will seek. I must ask him, doesn't he understands -- understand that

:41:49. > :41:54.what has happened over the last decade, where a Labour government

:41:54. > :41:57.signed treaty after treaty, gave away power after power, saw more

:41:57. > :42:01.centralisation after more centralisation had never consulted

:42:01. > :42:10.the British people is what has made this problem so big in the first

:42:10. > :42:13.place? The Prime Minister did not answer the question about whether

:42:13. > :42:17.he gave the green light to his Conservative colleagues in Cabinet,

:42:17. > :42:22.for some of them to concern being in the European Union and some of

:42:22. > :42:27.them getting out of the European Union. -- for some of them to

:42:27. > :42:30.campaign about being in the European Union. When there are 1

:42:30. > :42:35.million young people out of work and businesses are going to the

:42:35. > :42:39.wall, he spends six months creating a speech to create five years of

:42:39. > :42:45.uncertainty for Britain. When it comes to Europe, it is the same old

:42:45. > :42:49.Tories, a divided party and a weak Prime Minister.

:42:49. > :42:54.He has absolutely nothing to say about the important issue of

:42:54. > :42:58.Britain's relationship with Europe. What is his view? Order, order. The

:42:58. > :43:02.response from the Prime Minister must be heard, and it will be.

:43:02. > :43:06.There will be a very simple choice at the next election. If you want

:43:06. > :43:10.to stay out of the single currency, you vote Conservative, if you want

:43:10. > :43:15.to join it, you boots Labour. If you want to take power back from

:43:15. > :43:21.Britain, you vote Conservative, if you want to give power to Brussels,

:43:21. > :43:24.you vote Labour. That is the truth. He wants absolutely no change in

:43:24. > :43:33.the relationship between Britain and Europe and he does not believe

:43:33. > :43:38.the British people should be given a choice. Mark Causey!

:43:38. > :43:41.The Prime Minister has very rightly focus the Government on growth and

:43:41. > :43:45.the development of new housing plays a key part in providing that

:43:45. > :43:49.growth, as well as providing much- needed new homes. In my

:43:49. > :43:54.constituency we have two developments of the combined size

:43:54. > :43:59.of 8000 new homes. Will the Prime Minister joined meet in praising

:43:59. > :44:05.the Council's attitude towards new development? He might come to rugby

:44:05. > :44:09.to see how we are going about it. would be delighted to visit him in

:44:09. > :44:13.Rugby. He is right in saying we need to build more houses, because

:44:14. > :44:17.right now, unless you have help from your parents, the average age

:44:17. > :44:21.of a first-time buyer is in their 30s. We need to build more homes to

:44:21. > :44:27.make sure we can allow people to achieve the dream that so many

:44:27. > :44:30.people have done, getting on the housing ladder. David Lammy.

:44:30. > :44:34.2010 the Prime Minister and his party said it was, I quote, lying

:44:34. > :44:39.and scaremongering to suggest that they would reduce family tax

:44:39. > :44:45.credits for families earning less than 31,000. We found out last week

:44:45. > :44:51.that the threshold will in fact be �26,000. Will he now apologised to

:44:51. > :44:54.families that he has failed to protect.

:44:54. > :44:58.This Government has had to make difficult decisions on public

:44:58. > :45:02.spending and welfare. But throughout that we have protected

:45:02. > :45:06.those on the lowest incomes and Major, particularly with the child

:45:06. > :45:11.tax credit, that we have increased it. That is what we have done with

:45:11. > :45:15.child tax credits, it is a record we should support.

:45:15. > :45:22.The residents of Thanet both enjoyed burgers but also love

:45:22. > :45:26.horses. This morning they will be shocked to hear that they might

:45:26. > :45:29.have been eating horsemeat. I wonder whether the Prime Minister

:45:29. > :45:34.can reassure us that he and the Government is doing enough to

:45:35. > :45:42.reassure the diners of Thanet? honourable lady raises a very

:45:42. > :45:45.important issue. It is an extremely serious issue. People in our

:45:45. > :45:48.country would have been very concerned to read this morning that

:45:48. > :45:53.when they thought they were buying beefburgers they were buying

:45:53. > :45:56.something that had horsemeat in it, that is extremely disturbing news.

:45:56. > :46:00.I've asked the Food Standards Agency to conduct an urgent

:46:00. > :46:04.investigation. They have made clear there is no risk to public safety

:46:04. > :46:08.because there is no food safety was, but this is a completely

:46:08. > :46:12.unacceptable state of affairs. They will be meeting retailers and

:46:12. > :46:15.processes this afternoon, working with them to investigate the supply

:46:15. > :46:23.chain, but it is worth making the point that ultimately retailers

:46:23. > :46:26.must be responsible for what they Could I thank the Prime Minister

:46:26. > :46:30.and the leader of the opposition for their condolences and could I

:46:30. > :46:34.add my condolences and sympathy to those people who died, the families

:46:34. > :46:40.of those who have died in my constituency this morning in the

:46:40. > :46:43.helicopter crash. Would he share with me the absolute amazing work

:46:43. > :46:49.that was done by particularly the fire services this morning, the

:46:49. > :46:52.firefighters who came from Clapham station were there in a short time.

:46:52. > :46:56.Would he also recognise at some stage, not for today, but some

:46:56. > :47:01.stage we do need to look at whether now with a changing skyline of

:47:01. > :47:04.London we need to look much more closely at where and how and why

:47:04. > :47:08.helicopters fly throughout our central city?

:47:08. > :47:11.I think the honourable lady is absolutely right again to praise

:47:11. > :47:14.the emergency services. Everyone could see from those terrifying

:47:14. > :47:17.pictures on our screens this morning just how quickly the

:47:17. > :47:20.emergency services responded and how brave and professional they

:47:21. > :47:24.were in the way in which they responded. I think the point she

:47:24. > :47:28.makes about the rules for helicopter flights and other

:47:28. > :47:32.flights over our capital city, I am sure they will be looked at as part

:47:33. > :47:36.of the investigations that will take place. That's not an issue for

:47:36. > :47:42.today but tpheft plea something -- inevitably it's something to be

:47:42. > :47:45.looked at. Last week I organised an entrepreneurship seminar for women

:47:45. > :47:47.wanting to set up their own businesses and one of the questions

:47:47. > :47:53.they asked was about the cost of child care. Given that this

:47:53. > :47:55.Government has extended 15 hours of care to two-year-olds for the most

:47:56. > :47:59.disadvantaged, quarter of a million two-year-olds and extended it to

:47:59. > :48:03.three and four-year-olds, does it not show this Government is

:48:03. > :48:07.supporting families and women who want to work? I think my honourable

:48:07. > :48:11.friend makes an important point. We have seen over the last couple of

:48:11. > :48:15.years one of the fastest rates of new business creation in our

:48:15. > :48:18.history. But we do need to encourage particularly female

:48:18. > :48:21.entrepreneurship, if we had the same rate as other countries we

:48:21. > :48:25.could help wipe out unemployment altogether. We do help families as

:48:25. > :48:28.she said, in terms of two, three and four-year-olds with childcare.

:48:28. > :48:31.We also help through the tax credit system, but as the House will know,

:48:31. > :48:36.we are looking at how we can help even further for hard-working

:48:36. > :48:38.people that want to go out to work, that need help for childcare, to

:48:38. > :48:45.make sure they can do the right thing for their children and

:48:45. > :48:55.families. Thank you, Mr Speaker. When will the Prime Minister visit

:48:55. > :48:55.

:48:55. > :48:58.a food bank? He is welcome to come to Rother hpl? -- -- Rotherham.

:48:58. > :49:03.should welcome the work they do. It was the last Government I think

:49:03. > :49:06.that quitely actually recognised that through giving food banks an

:49:06. > :49:10.award. As honourable members have asked this question, and shout out

:49:10. > :49:14.a lot about food banks, let me remind them of one simple fact -

:49:14. > :49:20.the use of food banks went up ten- fold under the last Labour

:49:20. > :49:27.Government. So before they try to use this as some political weapon,

:49:27. > :49:31.they should recognise this started under their own Government.

:49:31. > :49:34.Thank you, Mr Speaker. The national star college in my constituency

:49:34. > :49:38.provides well renowned care for some of our disabled youngsters

:49:38. > :49:43.with the most profound and complex learning difficulties to enable

:49:43. > :49:47.them to lead an independent life. Sadly, it and a few similar

:49:47. > :49:50.colleges' future is being placed in jeopardy by a decision not to

:49:50. > :49:53.ringfence the funding. As I am sure my right honourable friend will

:49:53. > :49:57.wish to solve this problem, may I invite him to come to the college

:49:57. > :50:01.to see this wonderful care for himself.

:50:01. > :50:05.As my constituency neighbour, I am happy to discuss this issue with

:50:05. > :50:09.him. He praises the fantastic work carried out by the college. It does

:50:09. > :50:12.do an excellent job in improving the life chances of young people. I

:50:12. > :50:15.know the college has concerns over the new funding system. I know that

:50:15. > :50:18.he has contacted the Minister responsible. We are changing the

:50:19. > :50:22.way that funding is allocated but this does not necessarily mean that

:50:22. > :50:26.the funding will be cut. I am happy to discuss this with him but the

:50:26. > :50:29.new funding system does allow local authorities to have more say in how

:50:29. > :50:33.the funding is distributed but I am sure they'll want to recognise

:50:33. > :50:38.excellent work including from this college.

:50:38. > :50:41.Is the Prime Minister aware of the trauma facing thousands of families,

:50:42. > :50:45.particularly in London, who live in private represented accommodation

:50:45. > :50:50.where the housing benefit payments do not meet the rapidly increasing

:50:50. > :50:53.rents and they are forced out of their homes, out of their boroughs

:50:53. > :50:57.and the community suffers as a result and children's education

:50:57. > :51:01.suffers? Does he not think it's time to regulate private sector

:51:01. > :51:05.rents and bring in a fair rents policy in this country so that

:51:05. > :51:10.families are not forced out of the communities where they have lived

:51:10. > :51:14.for a very long time? I would say is he does have to

:51:14. > :51:18.recognise that we inherited a situation in terms of housing

:51:18. > :51:24.benefit in London that was completely out of control. Some

:51:24. > :51:29.families were getting as much as �104,000 for one family for one

:51:29. > :51:33.year. Even today we are still spending something like �6 billion

:51:34. > :51:37.on housing benefit in London. I think we have to recognise that

:51:37. > :51:43.higher levels of housing benefit and higher rents were chasing each

:51:43. > :51:48.other up in a spiral. I don't support the idea of mass rent

:51:48. > :51:50.controls because what we would see a massive decline in the private

:51:50. > :51:54.rented sector which is what happened last time we had such

:51:54. > :51:58.controls. We need proper regulation of housing benefit and making sure

:51:59. > :52:06.we have a competitive system for private sector renting and also

:52:06. > :52:10.making sure we build more flats and houses. The deficit has to be

:52:10. > :52:14.brought down, but if tax credits and benefits are capped now for the

:52:14. > :52:19.next three years at 1%, people on low incomes will be vulnerable to

:52:19. > :52:22.increases in food and energy prices. If prices go up by more than

:52:22. > :52:25.expected what contingency plans does the Government have for

:52:25. > :52:28.benefits and tax credits? The most important thing is to make sure

:52:28. > :52:32.people are getting a good deal in terms of energy prices. That's why

:52:32. > :52:35.we are going to be ledge lating to make -- legislating to make

:52:35. > :52:40.companies put people on the lowest available tariffs, that's something

:52:40. > :52:44.on this side of the House we are doing that will help all families.

:52:44. > :52:50.As a diabetic, can I welcome the fact that last year the Prime

:52:50. > :52:56.Minister lit up Number 10 for the first time on World Dine Day. One -

:52:56. > :53:02.- Diabetes Day. One third of all school leavers, are either obese or

:53:02. > :53:05.overweight, yet they consume cans of coke and Pepsi that contain up

:53:05. > :53:08.to eight teaspoons of sugar. What steps is the Prime Minister

:53:08. > :53:14.proposing to take to engage manufacturers in a war against

:53:14. > :53:20.sugar? If we don't act now, the next generation will be overwhelmed

:53:20. > :53:23.by a diabetes epidemic. I think the gentleman is absolutely right to

:53:23. > :53:26.raise this issue. It's one of the biggest health challenges that we

:53:26. > :53:30.face in our country, a public health challenge that we face. He

:53:30. > :53:33.is right to highlight the problem of accessive eating of sugar.

:53:33. > :53:37.That's why we challenged business through our responsibility deal to

:53:37. > :53:42.try and reduce levels of sugar and that has had some effect. What we

:53:42. > :53:47.have in place now is a diabetes action plan which is about how we

:53:47. > :53:50.improve early diagnosis, how we better spwe care and -- integrate

:53:50. > :53:53.care and provide better support. It's one of of those challenges not

:53:53. > :53:57.just for the health service, it's a challenge for local authorities,

:53:57. > :54:02.schools and for parents, as well. As someone trying to bring up three

:54:03. > :54:11.children without excessive amounts of coca-cola, I know exactly how

:54:11. > :54:14.big the challenge is. 20 years ago this week Claire Tiltman, a 16-

:54:14. > :54:19.year-old girls school pupil was stabbed to death in my constituency.

:54:19. > :54:22.Nobody has ever been convicted of this crime. Both of her parents

:54:22. > :54:25.subs subsequently died never knowing who had actually taken

:54:25. > :54:29.their only child from them. Mr Speaker, could the Prime Minister

:54:29. > :54:34.assure the House that this government will continue to provide

:54:34. > :54:41.full assistance to Kent Police to help bring justice for one of

:54:42. > :54:44.Britain's most brutal and unsolved murders? He is absolutely right to

:54:44. > :54:50.raise this case. It is a particularly tragic case because as

:54:50. > :54:52.he says, the parents of this girl have both died. What Wye say is of

:54:53. > :54:55.course we will do everything we can but above all, it's for other

:54:55. > :54:58.people, anyone who knows anything about this case to talk to the Kent

:54:58. > :55:02.Police because in the end it is their responsibility to try and

:55:02. > :55:06.solve this case. In terms of taking action to deal with appalling knife

:55:06. > :55:12.crimes like this one, as he knows the Government has taken a set of

:55:12. > :55:16.important actions. 39 people suspected of serious child sex

:55:17. > :55:21.offences who fled the country have been brought back quickly to

:55:21. > :55:26.Britain under the European Arrest Warrant to face justice. Sadly,

:55:26. > :55:31.many of these backbenchers want to scrap the European Arrest Warrant

:55:31. > :55:36.making it easier for paedophiles to escape justice. Will he today

:55:37. > :55:40.categorically rule that out? As the honourable gentleman knows, we have

:55:40. > :55:44.the opportunity to work out which of the home affairs parts of the

:55:44. > :55:47.European Union we want to opt out of and which ones we want to opt

:55:47. > :55:49.back into. That's being rightly discussed in the Government. It's

:55:49. > :55:59.being discussed in this House. I am sure they'll listen carefully to

:55:59. > :56:04.his arguments. Great progress is being made in improving the rights

:56:04. > :56:08.of park oepl owners, many of whom are are vulnerable on low incomes.

:56:08. > :56:11.Currently they're not eligible for the green deal. Will he ask his

:56:11. > :56:16.civil servants to investigate this mat tore make sure that assistance

:56:16. > :56:20.with energy efficiency is available to everybody who really needs it?

:56:20. > :56:24.I will look carefully at what my honourable friend says. This

:56:24. > :56:28.Government has taken some steps forward in terms of the rights of

:56:28. > :56:32.park home owners. I have some of these in my own constituency and I

:56:32. > :56:35.know how important it is we get the balance of law right. Specifically

:56:35. > :56:39.her point on the green deal, I will look at that because the green deal

:56:39. > :56:41.is a very important measure to try and help people with their energy

:56:41. > :56:48.efficiency and keep their bills down. We want that obviously to be

:56:48. > :56:54.available to as many people as possible. Yesterday Sir Bruce Keel

:56:54. > :56:59.the medical director of the NHS, told the Public Accounts Committee

:56:59. > :57:02.GPs were imposing unjustified restrictions on cataract operations.

:57:02. > :57:07.It seems the Prime Minister and his reorganisation is taking the NHS

:57:07. > :57:10.back to the 1980s when it was - when the NHS was the sick man of

:57:10. > :57:13.Europe. Will he take this opportunity to apologise to elderly

:57:13. > :57:18.people who are waiting unnecessarily for their cataract

:57:18. > :57:24.operations? First of all, can I make the point that compared with

:57:24. > :57:31.2010-11 last year there were 400,000 extra operations in our NHS.

:57:31. > :57:37.If you look across our NHS, there are 5,000 more doctors and 5,000

:57:37. > :57:41.fewer administrators. We have the level of mixed sex wards right down.

:57:41. > :57:44.The level of infections - the point I am making, I know the the party

:57:44. > :57:46.opposite don't want to hear, the NHS is improving under this

:57:46. > :57:54.Government because we are putting money in and they take the money

:57:54. > :57:59.out. Many of us were inspired by the Prime Minister's speech on

:57:59. > :58:04.political reform delivered in kaoepbs kaoepbs kaoepbs -- Milton

:58:04. > :58:07.Keynes when we were in opposition. To make that happen, we were

:58:07. > :58:12.promised a system of open primary selection which has already had

:58:12. > :58:15.such a refreshing effect in the constituencies of Totnes. When does

:58:15. > :58:21.the Prime Minister expect open primaries to be in place more

:58:21. > :58:24.widely as promised in the coalition agreement? I do support using open

:58:24. > :58:28.primaries. On this side of the House - sorry in this party we had

:58:28. > :58:33.a number of open primaries. I hope that all parties can look at this

:58:33. > :58:37.issue and debate and see how we can encourage maximum participation,

:58:37. > :58:42.including in the selection of candidates. Let's talk about Europe

:58:42. > :58:47.and the national interest. Millions of British women would be hit by

:58:47. > :58:52.the post in today's Conservative Fresh Start report to opt out of

:58:52. > :58:58.the EU law on equal pay. Will the Prime Minister rule out this opt-

:58:58. > :59:02.out today? What this Government has done is we explained at the

:59:02. > :59:05.beginning of Prime Ministers questions, is massively helped

:59:05. > :59:13.women through the single tier pension. I will look carefully at

:59:13. > :59:17.the proposal he mentioned and I will write to him. I know my right

:59:17. > :59:21.honourable friend is aware of the extreme flooding suffered in the

:59:21. > :59:25.West Country in November and December of last year, impacting

:59:25. > :59:28.many homes and businesses and also sweeping away the rail link between

:59:29. > :59:32.the West Country and London, leaving us cut off for several days.

:59:32. > :59:35.Would he please ensure our Government will take every step

:59:35. > :59:42.necessary to impoef the resilience -- improve the resilience of this

:59:42. > :59:52.sraoeut afl link to -- vital hreurpbg so we -- link to we never

:59:52. > :59:54.

:59:54. > :59:58.get cut off again? I went to see myself how badly one town had been

:59:58. > :00:02.-- flooded. He is going to be visiting the area soon to look at

:00:02. > :00:05.this. We are working with Network Rail to improve the resilience of

:00:05. > :00:10.the overall network and we will do everything to make sure these

:00:10. > :00:14.important services are maintained even when they're challenged by

:00:14. > :00:19.floods like last year. Does the Prime Minister accept that a

:00:19. > :00:24.statement on Europe designed to be populist runs the risk of

:00:24. > :00:29.polarising this House, undermining key UK UK relations with America,

:00:29. > :00:34.confusing and alienating our friends in Europe and starting a

:00:34. > :00:37.process that sleep-walks the UK out of Europe? I think the most

:00:37. > :00:41.dangerous thing for this country would be to bury our head in the

:00:41. > :00:44.sand and pretend there isn't a debate about Britain's future in

:00:44. > :00:48.Europe. The most dangerous thing for this country would be to see

:00:48. > :00:51.the changes that are taking place in Europe because of the single

:00:51. > :00:54.currency and stand back and say, we are going to do nothing about it.

:00:54. > :00:57.What Britain should be doing is getting in there, fighting for the

:00:58. > :01:05.changes that we want, so then we can ask for the consent of the

:01:05. > :01:07.British people to settle this issue once and for all. Can the Prime

:01:07. > :01:14.Minister tell the House what the Government is doing to keep

:01:14. > :01:19.pensioners warm in this cold weather and will he join me in

:01:19. > :01:23.congratulating the Suffolk Foundation for the great success of

:01:23. > :01:28.their surviving winter campaign? What this Government has done is

:01:28. > :01:31.first of all give the biggest increase in the basic state pension

:01:31. > :01:35.of �5.30 a week last year. We have kept the winter fuel payments, we

:01:35. > :01:38.kept the cold weather payments at the higher level and we are

:01:38. > :01:42.replacing the Warm Front Scheme with the energy company obligation

:01:42. > :01:47.and while the Warm Front Scheme helps something like 80,000 houses

:01:47. > :01:50.a year, the eco could help up to 230,000 houses a year. So that is

:01:50. > :01:55.what we are doing. That's how we are helping old people and it's a

:01:55. > :02:01.record we should be proud of. Prime Minister should know that the

:02:01. > :02:06.ONS have recently released figures which show there were 24,000 extra

:02:06. > :02:10.cold weather deaths over the winter of 2011-12. The majority of those

:02:10. > :02:13.who perished were over the age of 75. Mr Speaker, can I ask the Prime

:02:13. > :02:18.Minister if he thinks his Government should do more to help

:02:18. > :02:21.the elderly and vulnerable and less to help millionaires with tax cuts?

:02:21. > :02:26.As I just said, we are doing more to help the elderly and the

:02:26. > :02:30.vulnerable. A record increase in the basic state pension. Bigger

:02:30. > :02:34.than what the party opposite would have done with their rules. Keeping

:02:34. > :02:38.the cold weather payments at the higher level that the last party

:02:38. > :02:42.only - last Government introduced before the election. Keeping our

:02:42. > :02:45.promise on winter fuel payments, taking all of those steps and

:02:46. > :02:48.making sure again something never done by the party opposite, that

:02:48. > :02:55.energy companies will have to put people on the lowest tariffs.

:02:55. > :03:00.That's a record we can be proud of. Mr Speaker, a business in my

:03:00. > :03:04.constituency is enduring a hideous regulatory farce, thanks to the

:03:04. > :03:08.Health and Safety Executive and the European Union. Will my right

:03:08. > :03:11.honourable friend remind the CBI that the British economy is very

:03:11. > :03:15.reliant and small and medium businesses, businesses far less

:03:15. > :03:20.able to cope with bad regulation, particularly when it's badly

:03:20. > :03:24.administered in the UK? He is absolutely right. Businesses large

:03:24. > :03:28.and small are complaining about the burden of regulation, not just the

:03:28. > :03:31.pwurtd of regulation -- burden of regulation from Europe but more

:03:31. > :03:34.generally and that's why we should be fighting in Europe for a more

:03:34. > :03:37.flexible, more competitive Europe and a Europe where we see

:03:37. > :03:41.regulations come off, rather than always go on. The sraouf of the

:03:41. > :03:50.party -- view of the party opposite is sit back and do nothing and

:03:50. > :03:55.never listen to the British people The big news is that the speaker

:03:55. > :04:01.interrupted only once. Who said he would interrupt only once? Are a

:04:01. > :04:07.forgotten! That would be me. How much do I get? Nothing.

:04:08. > :04:12.In other news, a Europe dominated the frontbench exchanges, just as

:04:12. > :04:15.they dominated the first part of our programme. PMQs now follows the

:04:15. > :04:18.so carefully that the leader of the opposition even began with the same

:04:18. > :04:24.question I began the programme with. He is obviously watching the show

:04:24. > :04:28.and taking notes as he heads into the chamber. We saw a debate about

:04:28. > :04:34.Europe that will take place over the next three years. Just get used

:04:34. > :04:39.to it. An interesting thing that was not mentioned, there was no

:04:39. > :04:43.question about Mali, a major intervention by one of our European

:04:43. > :04:47.allies in which the British are providing logistical support. Al-

:04:47. > :04:51.Qaeda will now use northern Mali as a new base to launch terrorist

:04:51. > :04:55.attacks on Western Europe and the United States, it is said, and yet

:04:55. > :04:59.no one in the House of Commons, the mother of parliaments, I asked a

:04:59. > :05:04.question about it. That may be a sign of increasing parochialism in

:05:04. > :05:08.British politics. 99% of our viewers commented on

:05:08. > :05:12.Europe and the debate between the two leaders. John in Leeds said

:05:12. > :05:17.that history is to date repeating itself, a Conservative PM digging a

:05:17. > :05:24.hole for himself over Europe. David Cameron even made a non-existent

:05:24. > :05:28.Labour policy on Europe look viable. Diane in Truro, David Cameron has

:05:28. > :05:33.dug himself into a massive hole and is committing political suicide as

:05:33. > :05:37.a result. The issue of Europe will be an irrelevance in a general

:05:37. > :05:42.election, but party unity and competence is always crucial.

:05:42. > :05:46.Peter in the Wirral, an incredibly weak performance from Cameron but

:05:46. > :05:50.Europe is an open goal for Miliband. One viewer says that the electorate

:05:50. > :05:55.cannot forget the way in which Labour handed over power was to the

:05:55. > :06:03.European Union, I shed our thinking of Gordon Brown is signing the back

:06:03. > :06:07.door and going -- going in the back door and signing the Lisbon Treaty.

:06:07. > :06:11.Chris in Berkshire says Ed Miliband's attempt to embarrass the

:06:11. > :06:16.Prime Minister by suggesting that Tory cabinet members would be given

:06:16. > :06:20.the right to campaign in a referendum campaign from -- for a

:06:20. > :06:30.withdrawal from the EU, does he not recall that is what Harold Wilson

:06:30. > :06:32.

:06:32. > :06:36.did in 1975? Was he... Yes, he was Prime Minister in 1975, I was just

:06:36. > :06:41.checking. They call it the hokey-cokey

:06:41. > :06:47.referendum. In, out, shake it all about!

:06:47. > :06:57.I know exactly where we are. Let me ask you this, Nick, is it the view

:06:57. > :07:00.of Mr Cameron and those around 10 that Europe is a vote winner? -- Mr

:07:00. > :07:05.Cameron and those around him. It is not an issue which resonates every

:07:05. > :07:09.day, and this country is more Euro- sceptic than it has ever been. So

:07:09. > :07:14.do they think for him to be, quote, banging on about it in a Euro-

:07:14. > :07:18.sceptic way, is that a helper in the run-up to the election or not?

:07:18. > :07:22.What do they think? Coup I think they did this beach not because

:07:22. > :07:28.they thought it was a bold winner, but because the pressure was coming

:07:28. > :07:33.from within and outside his party, from UKIP and others. But you could

:07:33. > :07:37.see the strategy. In his last words, and the Prime Minister always gets

:07:37. > :07:42.the last word, he said if you want to go into the single currency you

:07:42. > :07:46.vote Labour. They looked amazed, because Ed Balls was the person who

:07:46. > :07:51.told Gordon Brown under no circumstances should Britain go...

:07:51. > :07:56.No, he just told Gordon Brown that Tony Blair was in favour! Tony --

:07:56. > :08:00.Gordon Brown said, that was not happening! But clearly the tactic

:08:00. > :08:05.was to say that Labour were in favour of more powers. If in favour

:08:05. > :08:10.of getting rid of the pound. If you want to keep the pound you have to

:08:10. > :08:13.vote for the Conservatives. They are trying to turn it around into a

:08:13. > :08:19.vote-winner. Sometimes it is worth looking at faces in the House of

:08:19. > :08:22.Commons. Did the Tories look like they were having a good time?

:08:22. > :08:26.Whereas the Labour backbenchers looked like they were. I think Ed

:08:26. > :08:32.Miliband can scarcely believe his luck. The reminder that he summed

:08:32. > :08:35.up of a divided Conservative Party, people just hear a noise in the

:08:35. > :08:40.Conservatives, an argument about something which does not appear to

:08:40. > :08:44.be the priority of the day. That is so valuable foreign opposition

:08:44. > :08:52.party. It does not mean that Labour will not face difficult questions

:08:52. > :08:56.that they are not answering... did this morning. Perish the

:08:56. > :09:00.thought! That has never happened before, when Douglas did not answer

:09:00. > :09:04.the question! I suspect he does not feel any pressure to answer the

:09:04. > :09:10.question at the moment. He will do one day, before the election, but

:09:10. > :09:18.not now. It is clear that Mr Maher but -- Mr Miliband knew what he was

:09:18. > :09:22.doing... Because he asked your question! We will send the invoice.

:09:22. > :09:27.And his and your backbenchers seemed to like it. There must be

:09:27. > :09:33.concern that Labour gets its positioning rights in a country

:09:33. > :09:37.where all the polls show there is very little appetite for Europe.

:09:37. > :09:41.have to recognise the legitimate concerns expressed by the British

:09:41. > :09:48.public. Europe needs to change. But the central point, as Mix suggested,

:09:48. > :09:52.the promise is being driven by this position not by strength but by a

:09:52. > :09:55.weakness. I expect you'll get some good headlines out of the speech.

:09:55. > :09:59.The suggestion you up -- will be that he will push around other

:09:59. > :10:05.European leaders. But he is being pushed around by his own

:10:05. > :10:10.backbenchers, which might be good for Labour but not for the country.

:10:10. > :10:14.As Nick outlined earlier, the Prime Minister has always maintained a

:10:14. > :10:17.pragmatic Euro-scepticism and a pragmatic year-old involvement, we

:10:17. > :10:23.must be involved as trade in Europe is important to the country, we

:10:23. > :10:26.must be part of Europe, but there is widespread agreement among so

:10:26. > :10:33.Conservative Party that where we are now is not in a good position,

:10:33. > :10:36.it is not in the British national interest. The European Working Time

:10:36. > :10:40.Directive and the powers highlighted this morning by Andrea.

:10:40. > :10:44.It is right that we look to bring back powers that are in the British

:10:44. > :10:49.interest back to Britain. That is the broad consensus of the

:10:49. > :10:54.Conservatives. I thought the most significant moment for the history

:10:54. > :10:58.books today was when he said, Ed Miliband, will you give your

:10:58. > :11:02.Cabinet permission to campaign on either side during the referendum?

:11:02. > :11:07.Because going back to 1975 when Harold Wilson did that, you have

:11:07. > :11:11.the extraordinary spectacle of two cabinet members in the Panorama

:11:11. > :11:19.studio, Roy Jenkins on one side, Tony Benn on the other, at each

:11:19. > :11:23.other's throats on the issue of Europe. That was 1975. By 1981, Roy

:11:23. > :11:27.Jenkins was leading the SDP, an alternative political party, and I

:11:27. > :11:31.think the row about Europe and the Labour Party in the mid-70s

:11:31. > :11:34.generated the anger that produced the Social Democratic Party, which

:11:34. > :11:42.generated the split on the centre- left which meant the Tories were in

:11:42. > :11:48.power for 18 years. It was written last week that this European

:11:48. > :11:53.Business has the ability to split the Tories like corn rows. Forgive

:11:53. > :11:56.me if I'm wrong, the referendum happens in this context, as Mr

:11:56. > :12:00.Cameron would wish it, that he gets a deal from Europe in some form

:12:00. > :12:04.that you think amounts to a repatriation of certain powers.

:12:04. > :12:08.Probably not his wish-list or anything like it, but something to

:12:08. > :12:15.come back. Then the choice he plans to put before us if re-elected is

:12:15. > :12:21.that we both for this may be a bit more semi-detached relationship

:12:21. > :12:25.with Europe, and if we both know, we are voting to leave? We won't

:12:26. > :12:31.know until he delivers the speech. We know he wants to renegotiate and

:12:31. > :12:34.thinks he can do it. What is the vote on? One possibility is to say

:12:34. > :12:39.to the British public, do you support to the new negotiated

:12:39. > :12:45.position of the Government on Europe? If they vote yes, we know

:12:45. > :12:48.what that means. Voting no could mean a boat to try a bit harder,

:12:48. > :12:52.have another negotiation in the sense that the Irish referendum did

:12:52. > :12:56.not mean they got out of Europe, the Dutch referendum, the French

:12:56. > :13:01.referendum, these were all no votes over different treaties in recent

:13:01. > :13:11.years. That is the ambiguity which we will see if it is resolved on

:13:11. > :13:13.

:13:13. > :13:18.Friday. And does it mean, please try again, all, off we go? -- or

:13:18. > :13:24.off we go? Is it true, as I have read in the papers, that Downing

:13:24. > :13:33.Street and those around Mr Cameron ARC all his mates from Eton who are

:13:33. > :13:39.around him? -- are all his mates? don't recognise that at all. All of

:13:39. > :13:44.their cabinets and Mr Tenham regularly engaged. I mean what we

:13:44. > :13:50.used to call the kitchen cabinet? It is not something I recognise.

:13:50. > :13:55.How many did not go to Eton? I am sure you will tell me. But it

:13:55. > :14:00.depends on who you describe as the inner circle. I always found him

:14:00. > :14:06.very receptive to me when I was a backbench MP, from all members of

:14:06. > :14:13.the party he is receptive. He has shown very good engagement with our

:14:13. > :14:23.backbenchers and with ministers. I think that is the case. You up for

:14:23. > :14:27.promotion, I can see it! -- you are up for promotion. Tell us about it.

:14:27. > :14:32.His Chief of Staff, Ed Llewellyn, was at Eton with him. Craig Oliver

:14:32. > :14:36.used to work at the BBC, he is not an Old Etonian, and Andrew Cooper.

:14:36. > :14:40.There are lots of exceptions. But what angers a lot of Conservatives,

:14:41. > :14:45.let alone people outside, is they feel they can't break into a circle

:14:45. > :14:51.which is as much about what's anything-goes end of the Times

:14:51. > :14:59.called it not at the Notting Hill set, but the research department

:14:59. > :15:03.set. A group of people began in the -- began in politics working in the

:15:03. > :15:07.research department under John Major, George Osborne and David

:15:07. > :15:11.Cameron included. The reason they became so-called Tory modernisers

:15:11. > :15:15.and said our generation should lead, they look at what happened to John

:15:15. > :15:19.Major and said, never again to our party. The reason today is

:15:19. > :15:26.significant is they will go back to their office and say, does that

:15:26. > :15:30.feel just a bit familiar? Maastricht rebels, who were seen as

:15:30. > :15:36.the extreme Euro-sceptics, are now the mainstream of the

:15:36. > :15:41.Conservatives? And the mainstream of the country, in some respect.

:15:41. > :15:44.The gamble the Prime Minister is taking is that Europe is bound to

:15:44. > :15:49.change after the Euro crisis, that it is, therefore, perfectly

:15:49. > :15:53.possible to negotiate a new deal and that no government - Labour,

:15:53. > :15:58.Tory or Coalition - could drive that a new deal through Parliament

:15:58. > :16:02.like the Maastricht treaty was, without consulting the public. The

:16:02. > :16:05.gamble is let's get brownie points now for stating what he regards, we

:16:05. > :16:10.know he regards this, as the completely obvious - there will be

:16:10. > :16:15.a new deal, there will have to be a referendum. Does he get brownie

:16:15. > :16:20.points or do the parties say, it is not enough, or it is too far, and

:16:20. > :16:30.drag him around? There is a rather more significant, powerful and some

:16:30. > :16:37.will say significance arrangement of chums, it is the Paisley

:16:37. > :16:47.arrangement. We have always seen it as a conspiracy! I was not brought

:16:47. > :16:56.

:16:56. > :17:01.up in Paisley, just for the No one wants to join! Touche! 15-

:17:01. > :17:04.all! Writing a letter of complaint as we speak!

:17:04. > :17:09.I really must not lower my standards!

:17:09. > :17:13.He is best known as an advertising guru, but now Lord Saatchi says he

:17:13. > :17:16.knows how to cure cancer and it's all by changing the law. 18 months

:17:16. > :17:24.ago, Lord Saatchi lost his wife to a rare form of the disease. He has

:17:24. > :17:27.put what he learnt into his Medical InOvation Bill -- Innovation Bill

:17:28. > :17:30.which aims to prevent doctors from being held liable for clinical

:17:30. > :17:40.negligence if they innovate during cancer treatment. Here he explains

:17:40. > :17:50.

:17:50. > :17:56.Cancer is relentless, remorseless, merciless. Its treatment is

:17:56. > :18:03.medieval, degrading and ineffective. There is no more distressing thing

:18:03. > :18:08.in the whole world than a beautiful woman being reduced to a sparrow.

:18:08. > :18:13.That's why I have introduced the Medical Innovation Bill into the

:18:13. > :18:21.House of Lords. Will this Bill cure cancer? No, but it will encourage

:18:21. > :18:29.the man or woman who will. The treatment regime for such cancers

:18:29. > :18:35.are 40 years old. For the woman, the good news is hair loss. The

:18:35. > :18:39.less good news is that the drugs mimic the disease. Nausea,

:18:39. > :18:46.diarrhoea, vomiting, fatigue. That's before we get to the bad

:18:46. > :18:50.news. That's that the drugs do such damage to the immune system,

:18:50. > :18:56.allowing fatal infections to enter the body, that the woman is as

:18:56. > :19:04.likely to die from the infections as from the cancer. Current law is

:19:04. > :19:12.a barrier to progress in curing cancer. Under present law, any

:19:12. > :19:15.tkaoef -- divation by a doctor will result in a verdict of guilt of

:19:15. > :19:21.medical negligence. Fear of litigation is sa barrier to

:19:21. > :19:26.progress in curing cancer. We don't want human beings being treated

:19:26. > :19:36.like mice, but on the other hand, we do want bold scientific

:19:36. > :19:38.

:19:38. > :19:45.discovery. This Bill achieves both. One man or woman with an idea will

:19:45. > :19:51.cure cancer. That person has to be encouraged, not frightened. Only a

:19:51. > :19:55.change in the law can solve that problem because the law is the

:19:55. > :19:59.problem. And Lord Saatchi joins us now.

:19:59. > :20:02.Welcome to the programme. Before I come to you, Dan Poulter, do you

:20:02. > :20:07.tkpre with Maurice Saatchi that current law is a barrier to

:20:07. > :20:11.progress in terms of cancer care? think we are sympathetic to the

:20:11. > :20:16.points that Lord Saatchi has raised. Do you think it's a barrier, the

:20:16. > :20:21.law is a barrier to progress can cancer care? One thing that was a

:20:21. > :20:24.problem in the past was getting quick access to drugs and we

:20:24. > :20:28.introduced as a Government the cancer drugs fund which has meant

:20:28. > :20:31.25,000 more people are getting access to drugs but there are

:20:31. > :20:34.concerns certainly that some medical professionals have that

:20:34. > :20:38.sometimes when they bring forward or have new ideas about what can

:20:38. > :20:40.improve care for patients, that sometimes they're not able to bring

:20:40. > :20:45.that forward as quickly as they would like to do and this is

:20:45. > :20:49.something we do need to have a look at. We are sympathetic to the ideas

:20:49. > :20:53.and would like to engage further. I think Jeremy Hunt has already

:20:53. > :20:57.spoken to Lord Saatchi and I know I will be keen to continue

:20:57. > :21:01.discussions because we have to do everything we can to improve

:21:01. > :21:06.patient care. Certainly as far as cancer treatment. Let me ask you

:21:06. > :21:10.then, do you think it really could lead to a cure in the way that you

:21:10. > :21:15.outlined, that by releasing doctors or giving them the freedom to be

:21:15. > :21:20.more innovative, that it could then lead to a proper cure for cancer?

:21:20. > :21:26.Well, I thank Dan very much for what he has just said. It sounds

:21:26. > :21:30.surprising, doesn't it, that... sounds quite dramatic. Yes, how can

:21:30. > :21:33.an skwrablt of parliament -- skwrablt of parliament cure cancer?

:21:33. > :21:38.The answer is the analysis which has taken place over the course of

:21:38. > :21:42.the last year with a great deal of consultation with medical

:21:42. > :21:47.practitioners and academics and lots of people in Dan's department,

:21:47. > :21:53.if the analysis is correct there is an ever present fear in the mind of

:21:53. > :22:01.a doctor who is treating a patient, that only the well worn path of the

:22:01. > :22:06.status quo is safe and that to deviate from the status I do, from

:22:06. > :22:13.-- status quo, from that path is a risk to the patient, never mind the

:22:13. > :22:17.patient, a risk to the doctors' lifelyhood and -- livelihood.

:22:17. > :22:22.you advocating experimentation? You don't want patients to be treated

:22:22. > :22:27.like mice, isn't that the risk? What this Bill does, and there is a

:22:27. > :22:30.debate in the House of Lords today on the general subject of medical

:22:30. > :22:33.innovation and the Bill will take its course and probably there will

:22:33. > :22:38.be a second reading when the particular clauses can be debated

:22:38. > :22:44.in detail. But those of us who have been involved in the preparation of

:22:44. > :22:51.this Bill believe that by defining responsible innovation in law for

:22:51. > :22:54.the first time that you will do more to discourage quackery and

:22:54. > :22:58.reckless experimentation which puts patients' lives at risk than the

:22:58. > :23:01.present law. Let's put that to Dan Poulter, who is a doctor, a

:23:01. > :23:04.hospital doctor, of course, still practising. I tried to retire you

:23:04. > :23:09.last time you were on the programme! I am going this

:23:09. > :23:14.afternoon. Do you agree that you could actually minimise risk by

:23:14. > :23:19.defining what being innovative is in law? That still sounds like not

:23:19. > :23:25.a huge guarantee to being being experimented on? It's right that we

:23:26. > :23:28.have safeguards in place so people can't - you won't have ad hoc

:23:28. > :23:35.experimentation with medical drugs and with procedures. We do know in

:23:35. > :23:40.some areas in medicine advances happen very quickly. But at the

:23:40. > :23:44.same time Lord Saatchi is right, in other areas, for example,

:23:44. > :23:48.particularly in the field of drugs, things have not been as quick as we

:23:48. > :23:51.would like. Where we know that a drug potentially has worked and

:23:52. > :23:56.there are clinical evidence and trials that's worked we need to

:23:56. > :24:02.bring on stream more quickly and continue to do more quickly

:24:02. > :24:06.medications that are effective. Douglas Alex and tkrer, do --

:24:06. > :24:10.Alexander, do you agree? Of course you want to strike the right

:24:10. > :24:15.balance between established protocols and innovation. Dan is a

:24:15. > :24:19.doctor, I am a lawyer by training. My instinct is to establish on

:24:19. > :24:23.statute a legal water-tight definition. It's a tough ask of the

:24:23. > :24:26.legal draftsman. That being said, my own mother was a leukaemia

:24:26. > :24:29.specialist for many years in the NHS. There recall clearly

:24:29. > :24:32.established protocols for cancer treatment. But if we encounter

:24:32. > :24:34.situations where there are patients who if they follow established

:24:34. > :24:38.protocols, inevitably are not going to respond to that treatment, we

:24:38. > :24:41.need to look, for example, at the named patient procedure in place at

:24:41. > :24:44.the moment and see if there is further scope for innovation

:24:44. > :24:47.because we have an interest in finding right balance between

:24:47. > :24:52.innovation and safety. Because some patients would like to try, if

:24:52. > :24:56.they're coming towards the end of their life, you may think I will

:24:56. > :25:02.try anything, why not, I have not very much to lose? To take

:25:02. > :25:06.Douglas's point, he is a lawyer and he understands that in the court of

:25:06. > :25:10.-- course of the drafting of this Bill by senior draftsmen with

:25:10. > :25:16.support and advice from the judiciary, that the point that the

:25:16. > :25:22.Bill takes in law is to follow, for example, the law in relation to

:25:22. > :25:25.abortion or law in relation to sectioning under the Mental Health

:25:25. > :25:29.Act both of which involve activities not permitted by the

:25:29. > :25:34.signature of one doctor alone. Two doctors are required in both those

:25:34. > :25:39.cases, for very good reasons. In this Bill what the safeguards that

:25:39. > :25:45.appears is a definition of a process which has to be followed in

:25:45. > :25:49.order for the innovation to be legal. That process is very

:25:49. > :25:53.restrictive in that the multidisciplinary teams that Dan

:25:53. > :25:57.has put in place who deal with all cancer patients will have to

:25:57. > :26:06.approve the innovation. I have to stop you there, thank you very much.

:26:06. > :26:11.Because we need to move, we are getting the word from the betting.

:26:11. > :26:16.Let's get back to our friend, Paddy. As you said yourself, before and

:26:16. > :26:19.after, one interruption from the Speaker today. A little bit

:26:19. > :26:28.disappointing. Probably should have been offering odds on how many

:26:28. > :26:34.times the Prime Minister said "you are absolutely right ask that

:26:35. > :26:39.question". To be fair, you were correct. Exactly. What are the odds

:26:39. > :26:43.on the next election? Labour majority is favourite at 5-4. A

:26:43. > :26:51.Conservative majority 11-4. Between the two of them is probably the

:26:51. > :27:00.outcome. What odds on a hung parliament? Would be, I suppose,

:27:00. > :27:06.probably around 8 or 10-1 shot. What odds by still being in Europe

:27:06. > :27:10.by 20? There is talk about a referendum. It's 5-1 that he

:27:10. > :27:13.actually - the Prime Minister says he has an intention of having an

:27:13. > :27:16.in-out referendum on Friday. What odds of Dan Poulter being the next

:27:16. > :27:23.leader of the Conservative Party? This is a difficult one because he

:27:24. > :27:29.is here. You want to pitch this in such a way... 100-1?! We want to

:27:29. > :27:34.offer good value but not be insulting. 80-1. What about Douglas

:27:34. > :27:43.Alexander the next leader of the Labour Party? Well, Douglas, 12-1

:27:43. > :27:47.shot. Better news. Who is ahead of him? Ed Miliband! How very helpful

:27:47. > :27:52.there. I like this one, odds on the first MP to go topless in a

:27:52. > :27:55.photoshoot? I think I - most appropriate thing to do is probably

:27:55. > :28:05.offer 20-1 for either of your guests to do it right now. Because

:28:05. > :28:07.

:28:07. > :28:10.we have a fine example of this, you will be pleased to know. Let's have

:28:10. > :28:14.a look. Dan. Is that you having a flu jab? I am disturbed about the

:28:14. > :28:18.Mail on Sunday reporter's interest in spending time in researching

:28:18. > :28:28.this. But I am pleased it's raised awareness for the campaign. We need

:28:28. > :28:28.

:28:28. > :28:38.to do The Guess The Year. The answer was David Cameron was - the

:28:38. > :28:42.husky photoshoot, remember? It was 2006. Dan, press that red button.

:28:42. > :28:48.Paul Rees in Hampshire. You won, you got 2006. That's it for today.