:00:10. > :00:15.Westminster is as pretty as a picture under a blanket of snow
:00:15. > :00:25.today, but it takes more than a couple of inches of the white stuff
:00:25. > :00:52.
:00:52. > :01:00.to stop the Daily Politics from It is certainly warmer inside!
:01:00. > :01:04.Coming up: From plebgate to plodgate, now Downing Street's most
:01:04. > :01:07.senior civil servant gets it in the neck. Was the former Chief Whip
:01:07. > :01:10.Andrew Mitchell the victim of rough justice?
:01:10. > :01:16.The Prime Minister warned that North African militants represent
:01:16. > :01:20.the next essential threat which could take years to of off -- and
:01:20. > :01:24.existential threat. The same big speech on Europe
:01:24. > :01:30.waiting to be delivered by the Prime Minister. After the long
:01:30. > :01:35.build-up, will anyone be satisfied. Let It Snow, Let It Snow, Let It
:01:35. > :01:40.Snow. It looks pretty, but could the transport chaos be putting the
:01:40. > :01:44.brakes on the UK economy? All that in the next hour, and with
:01:44. > :01:50.us for the first half is Ben Summerskill, chief executive of the
:01:50. > :01:53.gay rights organisation Stonewall. Welcome. Let's start with Obama's
:01:53. > :01:58.public an operation for his second term as president, which will take
:01:58. > :02:04.place later. Hundreds of thousands are expected for the event, which
:02:04. > :02:07.will feature music from pop stars, Parade, black-tie balls and tight
:02:08. > :02:16.security. He is expected to follow the recent edition of walking
:02:16. > :02:19.through the crowds fired least some of the way back. -- for at least.
:02:20. > :02:26.He was officially inaugurated in a small White House ceremony on
:02:26. > :02:30.Sunday, as the US constitution requires the President be sworn in
:02:30. > :02:35.by the 20th January. He bowed to preserve, protect and defend the
:02:35. > :02:45.constitution of the United States. What are your hopes for his second
:02:45. > :02:48.
:02:48. > :02:55.term? I hope one of the things he will do it is embed Obama care. If
:02:55. > :02:58.you have a family in America, and I spent some time there, if you judge
:02:58. > :03:03.politicians on what you might call the thatcher Attlee test of whether
:03:03. > :03:08.they left something behind, making sure that 100 million people have
:03:08. > :03:12.health care who did not otherwise is a pretty huge achievement. I
:03:13. > :03:18.hope he will keep America and, consequently, the rest of us, out
:03:18. > :03:24.of war with Iran. And if you wanted some more stuff about hope and
:03:24. > :03:27.change, then possibly doing something at last about gun control,
:03:27. > :03:32.which is something where there is a lot of support from ordinary
:03:32. > :03:37.Americans. Let's look at gun- control. Do you think he will take
:03:37. > :03:41.on the gun lobby which is so powerful in America? My instinct,
:03:41. > :03:49.having seen the way he is setting out his stall, is that is what he
:03:49. > :03:53.might be thinking about. Will he succeed? I think he will probably
:03:53. > :03:57.get further than he might otherwise have -- otherwise have done. I was
:03:58. > :04:02.in New Hampshire at the time of the Connecticut shooting three or four
:04:02. > :04:05.weeks ago. People at home in America are starting to feel deeply
:04:05. > :04:12.uncomfortable and they are reflecting, which is perfectly
:04:12. > :04:15.reasonable, but the second announcement -- the Second
:04:15. > :04:19.Amendment was designed to give people the right to have a single
:04:19. > :04:25.ball rifle to protect them in the outback. It was not designed to
:04:25. > :04:29.give unstable teenagers the right to carry an AK-47. Is it a battle
:04:29. > :04:34.that you think he can make real progress on? You say attitudes may
:04:34. > :04:40.have changed in the living rooms across America, but they always do
:04:40. > :04:44.after an atrocity like this. Will it be enough to change any laws?
:04:44. > :04:51.think if he seeks to do it incrementally, so at the very least
:04:51. > :04:55.people start having to register in order to hold weapons like AK-47s,
:04:55. > :04:57.he will make significant progress. I don't think he will abolish the
:04:58. > :05:02.individual holding of weaponry altogether.
:05:02. > :05:09.A now it is time for away daily quiz. We are staying with re-
:05:09. > :05:14.inauguration. Which artist is performing? Is it Meatloaf, Beyonce,
:05:14. > :05:18.Psy of Gangnam Style fame or Lady GaGa? At the end of the show we
:05:18. > :05:21.will give you the correct answer. The Public Administration Committee
:05:21. > :05:26.has said the most senior civil servant in Jennings Street, Sir
:05:26. > :05:31.Jerry Hayward, failed to resolve key questions about the plebgate
:05:31. > :05:36.affair -- in Downing Street. Mr Mitchell allegedly called officers
:05:36. > :05:42.plebs in an altercation in December. He admits swearing but always says
:05:42. > :05:46.he did not use the words attributed to him. Doubts have subsequently
:05:47. > :05:51.been asked about -- past about the claims against him, including
:05:51. > :05:55.claims to his deputy allegedly written by a policeman posing as a
:05:55. > :05:59.member of the public. When the Prime Minister asked Jeremy Heywood
:05:59. > :06:04.to investigate the e-mails, he concluded they did not prove
:06:04. > :06:07.conclusive for reliable evidence against Mr Mitchell. At the Public
:06:07. > :06:11.Administration Committee, a cross- party group of MPs, say that Sir
:06:11. > :06:16.Jeremy should have pursued the matter further, saying he was
:06:16. > :06:19.surprised -- they were surprised that he did not seek to verify the
:06:19. > :06:24.authenticity of a document purported to be the police. --
:06:24. > :06:32.police log. They also think he should have advised the PM to refer
:06:32. > :06:35.the police account to the authorities. The report from the
:06:35. > :06:38.Public Administration Committee comes 11 days after MPs heard
:06:38. > :06:44.evidence from Sir Jeremy on the Mitchell affair. What I am
:06:44. > :06:47.wondering here is what actually happened? He did not occur to
:06:47. > :06:52.anyone that it would be possible they could be a massive fabrication
:06:52. > :06:58.at the time. -- it did not occur to anyone. Nobody thought it could
:06:58. > :07:01.happen. Is that part of what underpins the thinking? No, I think
:07:01. > :07:08.we accepted there were unanswered questions, including the
:07:08. > :07:12.possibility of a gigantic conspiracy, or small conspiracy. We
:07:12. > :07:17.decided, on balance, to let matters rest as they were, to stick by
:07:17. > :07:20.Andrew Mitchell, keep him in post and move on. With first is the
:07:20. > :07:25.chairman of the Public Administration Committee, Bernard
:07:25. > :07:31.Jenkin. What was the biggest mistake, Cameron's decision to ask
:07:31. > :07:35.Sir Jeremy to investigate all the investigation itself? We were keen
:07:35. > :07:39.to learn from this experience, asking the question are there
:07:39. > :07:44.lessons to learn from how this investigation is conducted, should
:07:45. > :07:49.it be done better and differently in the future? The committee I
:07:49. > :07:52.chair, in the previous parliament it recommended that the Prime
:07:52. > :07:56.Minister's adviser on ministerial interests should conduct these
:07:56. > :08:02.matters. The Civil Service says it is not for the Cabinet Secretary to
:08:02. > :08:06.enforce the code. Last summer we recommended he should be able to
:08:06. > :08:10.instigate his own investigations, the adviser, and the obvious truth
:08:10. > :08:15.is the Cabinet Secretary is not the right person to conduct this sort
:08:15. > :08:20.of inquiry, he is under enormous pressure of time. He does not
:08:20. > :08:25.necessarily have the skills. Inevitably, people will feel he is
:08:25. > :08:29.conflicted. Therefore automatically these inquiry should be run by the
:08:29. > :08:33.adviser and not the Cabinet Secretary. He was the wrong man for
:08:33. > :08:38.the job, which you have said, but that was up to David Cameron who
:08:38. > :08:41.appointed him? He obviously felt he was the right man for the job?
:08:41. > :08:45.There is a habit in Downing Street that somehow with something get
:08:45. > :08:50.referred to the adviser, then it is really ramping up and the minister
:08:50. > :08:54.has to be suspended. I understand all that. In the heat of the moment
:08:54. > :08:58.it is very easy to say things should have been done differently
:08:58. > :09:02.in retrospect, but this investigation failed to uncover the
:09:03. > :09:07.truth. There must be a better way of handling these investigations.
:09:07. > :09:11.You think Sir Alex Allan would have uncovered the truth? I don't know,
:09:11. > :09:16.but he is appointed for the purpose of conducting these investigations
:09:16. > :09:21.and it is far more likely he would give it his full-time, independent
:09:21. > :09:25.judgment likely he would get and that he would have commanded the
:09:25. > :09:30.public confidence necessary for such an investigation. Sir Jeremy
:09:30. > :09:34.Hay, the most senior civil servant in the country, does not inspire
:09:34. > :09:40.that confidence? His remit covers so many other things. Let's look at
:09:40. > :09:45.the weekend he has had. As well as dealing with the response to this
:09:45. > :09:50.report he has been dealing with the Algerian hostage crisis. The
:09:50. > :09:53.hangover of the non-EU speech which has to be handled later. All these
:09:53. > :09:58.things and many others are crowding on his time and putting him under
:09:58. > :10:02.enormous pressure. How is he meant to conduct a dispassionate
:10:02. > :10:07.investigation into the Andrew Mitchell fire at the same time? It
:10:07. > :10:11.is asking too much. Why has this Government repeatedly failed to act
:10:11. > :10:16.on your recommendation, and the previous government, too, to let
:10:16. > :10:19.Sir Alex Allan Duke -- do his job? We are still waiting for a
:10:19. > :10:24.government response to a recommendation we made 10 months
:10:24. > :10:27.ago, usually the deadline is two months. Prime ministers
:10:27. > :10:33.understandably do not want to lose control of things that have a
:10:33. > :10:37.bearing on how the Government is perceived. But the lesson of this
:10:37. > :10:41.is how much better it would have been for the Prime Minister and
:10:41. > :10:46.Cabinet Secretary if they handed his old that as a matter of course,
:10:46. > :10:50.that the adviser handled the investigation. Do you think it was
:10:50. > :10:55.not a good enough investigation by Sir Jeremy Heywood? It looks
:10:55. > :10:58.incomplete, but two things strike me about the issue. One is that I
:10:58. > :11:04.don't think plebgate played as badly in the country as people
:11:04. > :11:07.thought it did, because it was people you would expect trying to
:11:07. > :11:11.exploit it. And if people have prejudices about what MPs think
:11:12. > :11:16.about the voters they will have them anyway. I don't think that was
:11:16. > :11:22.assisted by the Christchurch MP referring to wait is in the House
:11:22. > :11:27.of Commons last week as servants. - - referring to waiters. I suspect
:11:27. > :11:31.that Bernard Jenkin will agree, and I have only picked this up socially
:11:31. > :11:35.from Conservative MPs, another thing really interesting is while
:11:35. > :11:39.there might be MPs who was Liberal Democrat and say they think the
:11:39. > :11:45.police might have made things up or framed people, there are
:11:45. > :11:50.Conservative MPs who are genuinely aghast at the very possibility that
:11:50. > :11:55.a police officer might have invented a claim about a government
:11:55. > :12:00.minister or, indeed, might have fabricated a complaint. Are you
:12:00. > :12:05.aghast? We have been very careful not to go that lot -- not to go
:12:05. > :12:09.there. It is not in our remit. bit like Sir Jeremy Heywood!
:12:09. > :12:15.might say that. The Home Affairs Select Committee is looking at this
:12:15. > :12:19.matter. But there is a criminal investigation in progress. And I
:12:19. > :12:24.think commenting too much on that might endanger a future trial.
:12:24. > :12:28.Absolutely. But I think it, subject to all the qualifications, it being
:12:28. > :12:33.a matter in progress, if this were found to be the case, I think the
:12:33. > :12:36.tectonic plates will shift slightly between the police and many
:12:36. > :12:41.Conservative backbenchers, who would have been instinctively quite
:12:41. > :12:45.supportive of them hitherto. remain instinctively supportive of
:12:45. > :12:49.the police. Their rotten apples in every barrel. Dealing with the
:12:49. > :12:53.diplomatic Protection Group, we are acutely aware that these people
:12:53. > :12:59.would throw themselves in front of a bullet for us, for you, for
:12:59. > :13:03.whoever happens to be standing there. Not for me. They would. I
:13:03. > :13:07.think talking to the police around the Palace who look after us, I
:13:07. > :13:11.have not discussed this with any of them, but I think a lot of them are
:13:11. > :13:16.aghast at what might or might not have happened. Thank you, Bernard.
:13:16. > :13:20.It has been more than four decades since the government of the day
:13:20. > :13:23.decriminalised homosexual acts in private between two men, and the
:13:23. > :13:28.gay rights movement has come up -- come a long way, with several
:13:28. > :13:31.ceremonies parts of everyday life. But it is not so long ago that
:13:31. > :13:36.newspapers thrived an outing gay MPs, and those kinds of stories
:13:36. > :13:40.about public figures still make the headlines. Has the taboo been
:13:40. > :13:45.lifted on being gay in public life? A public display of private life,
:13:45. > :13:50.the annual Gay pride march is a time where gay or lesbian people
:13:50. > :13:55.celebrate their sexuality. But what if you live a public life? How
:13:55. > :13:59.accepting has society come's become when it comes to politicians?
:13:59. > :14:03.much more acceptable than five years ago. David Cameron's
:14:04. > :14:08.government has a lot of work and it is a good atmosphere to be a gay
:14:08. > :14:12.politician. And before that Tony Blair's government and attitude
:14:12. > :14:17.towards gay ministers. It is still not easy, I think they still face
:14:17. > :14:21.more difficulties than heterosexual politicians, because their
:14:21. > :14:26.sexuality is deemed by some not to be the so-called norm. They're just
:14:26. > :14:28.over 20 are openly gay MPs. The first openly lesbian MP says that
:14:28. > :14:34.moves towards make a rights legislation over the past decade
:14:34. > :14:38.has been the result of changes in society. The last Labour government
:14:38. > :14:42.legislated for equal rights in so many areas for LGBT people. It has
:14:42. > :14:46.reflected a change which was already going on in people's
:14:46. > :14:52.attitudes and it has reinforced those attitudes. The gay rights
:14:52. > :14:55.activist teak -- activist Peter Tatchell complained of a senior
:14:55. > :15:01.camp bed mattress near campaign against him when he stood in an
:15:01. > :15:05.election in 1983. Their accusations of homophobia after the term a
:15:05. > :15:09.straight choice was used. The world may have moved on since then, but a
:15:09. > :15:12.study by the gay rights group Stonewall last year said that three
:15:12. > :15:16.in five people think there is public prejudice against gay,
:15:16. > :15:20.lesbian and bisexual people in Britain today. Just under two-
:15:20. > :15:23.thirds of those aged 18 to 29 SEP- there was homophobic bullying in
:15:23. > :15:29.their school and more than three- quarters of people felt that the
:15:29. > :15:33.media relied heavily on cliched stereotypes of gay, lesbian and
:15:33. > :15:37.bisexual people. In 2010, former cabinet minister David Laws was
:15:37. > :15:42.forced to reveal his sexuality during a row about his expenses
:15:42. > :15:46.leading to his resignation. But the author of a book about gay
:15:46. > :15:50.politicians and the press said that the media is changing. People like
:15:50. > :15:54.David Laws and Alan Duncan, while their sexuality is the subject of
:15:54. > :15:59.press coverage, it is more the issues behind it which are bigger,
:15:59. > :16:04.so expenses or being the first openly gay Tory MP. Those are
:16:04. > :16:08.bigger issues. Their sexuality is still an issue. Does geography
:16:08. > :16:14.affect perceptions? More than 20 years since she was first elected,
:16:14. > :16:19.Angela Eagle says not. When I came out in 1998 I think that I was
:16:19. > :16:23.probably the first woman, and I was also one of the first that was not
:16:23. > :16:28.a London member. It did not make any difference, you know? My
:16:28. > :16:32.constituents, thank goodness, judge me for who I was and the job I was
:16:32. > :16:41.doing rather than my sexual orientation. So attitudes are
:16:41. > :16:45.changing, but is that change Ben Summerskill of Stonewall is
:16:45. > :16:50.here, and we are joined by Ian Stewart. You would agree it is
:16:50. > :16:54.easier, is it not to be gay in public life these days? Oh, yes, if
:16:54. > :16:58.you look at when I first became interested and active in politics
:16:58. > :17:03.in the late 1980s, it was unquestionable for me to think
:17:03. > :17:07.about being open about who I was at that time, so we have made enormous
:17:07. > :17:11.progress in the last couple of decades. And as we saw in the
:17:11. > :17:15.interview, even in the last five years, there has been a step change.
:17:15. > :17:19.Why do you think that has been, particularly in the last five
:17:20. > :17:23.years? What has driven that step change? Well, I think there has
:17:23. > :17:26.been a sea-change in society, too. It is not just about
:17:26. > :17:31.representatives in public life, you think it has gone deeper than that?
:17:31. > :17:37.I think so, and the more people see people in all walks of life being
:17:37. > :17:41.open about their sexuality, and it not being an issue, you know, we
:17:41. > :17:48.are seeing more sports stars coming out, and they are not regarded for
:17:48. > :17:51.their sexuality, and there are still problems, areas where there
:17:51. > :17:58.is not enough progress, but the more we see role-models in all
:17:58. > :18:02.walks of life, the more, I think, society will change. Do think the
:18:02. > :18:06.public has a right to know their representatives' sexuality, or is
:18:06. > :18:09.it none of their business? someone wants to keep their private
:18:09. > :18:14.life entirely private, I think that is their matter. If they were
:18:14. > :18:18.starting to talk about family values, while keeping their
:18:18. > :18:22.sexuality secret, I think that is then an issue. But ultimately, I
:18:22. > :18:26.think it is up to each individual to decide for themselves. Do you
:18:26. > :18:31.agree with that, or do you think that public officials have a right
:18:31. > :18:35.to be open about their sexuality? think people have a right to be
:18:35. > :18:41.open about their sexuality. They also have a right not to be, and I
:18:41. > :18:44.think the point about what people say in public and a dissonance with
:18:44. > :18:49.what they might be doing in private, so people talk about family values
:18:49. > :18:56.but keep a mistress, that is a matter of public interest. But the
:18:56. > :19:00.important thing, too, is that across the piece in representation,
:19:00. > :19:05.the quality of politics is improved just occasionally when someone is
:19:05. > :19:10.able to stand up in relation to a particular piece of legislation and
:19:10. > :19:14.say, as someone gay, as someone black, as a woman, this is my lived
:19:14. > :19:18.experience of these issues. It improves the quality of politics,
:19:18. > :19:23.and that is why it is important. mean, traditionally, one might have
:19:23. > :19:28.been able to argue that Labour was a more natural home for gay voters.
:19:28. > :19:33.The thing that has changed now? what I hope is that gay issues are
:19:33. > :19:37.not party political. -- do you think. The Conservative Party,
:19:37. > :19:42.David Cameron has apologised for Section 28, and I think he was
:19:42. > :19:46.right to, not a proud period of my party's history. But what I want
:19:46. > :19:50.the debate to be now is how we tackle the remaining homophobia in
:19:50. > :19:53.schools and elsewhere, and that should not be, whether left-wing or
:19:53. > :19:59.right-wing, we should be looking at the evidence and coming up with
:19:59. > :20:02.sensible ideas. Actually, it is not pointing out that the Conservatives
:20:02. > :20:07.have more openly game of parliamentarians now that all the
:20:07. > :20:13.other parties but together. -- openly gay parliamentarians. There
:20:13. > :20:17.is no openly gay Liberal Democrat peer, only two MPs. So you would
:20:17. > :20:21.encourage people to come out. Absolutely, and on the whole,
:20:21. > :20:25.politicians who have done that say they feel more comfortable, but it
:20:25. > :20:28.is a sign of how the Conservative Party is changing that they are
:20:28. > :20:32.selecting these MPs right across Britain, not just in metropolitan
:20:32. > :20:36.areas. Let's talk about metropolitan areas, because Ian
:20:36. > :20:40.Stuart said that you felt society had changed, it was not just a
:20:40. > :20:45.public face against homophobia. What about attitudes outside of
:20:45. > :20:50.London? His there a geographical divide? I think it can be
:20:50. > :20:56.overestimated. One of the moments of the month of me, if I am
:20:56. > :21:01.permitted such a thing and this programme, was the Any Questions
:21:01. > :21:06.audience on Friday in Barnstaple being asked whether they supported
:21:06. > :21:11.equal marriage, and four out of five of them responded Yes. You
:21:11. > :21:15.know, that is in the heart are the middle Britain, and we are seeing
:21:15. > :21:19.MPs has selected by the Conservative Party, winnable seats,
:21:19. > :21:24.not just in Brighton, Bournemouth or the inner-city areas, but in
:21:24. > :21:27.Milton Keynes, in Pudsey. Glasgow? Yes, well last year the
:21:27. > :21:30.election of Ruth Davidson as election of the Scottish
:21:30. > :21:34.Conservatives, the first openly lesbian lead of any political party
:21:34. > :21:39.in the country, and I know from growing up in central Scotland in
:21:39. > :21:43.the 1980s, you know, that is a phenomenal change that has taken
:21:43. > :21:46.place in a relatively short period of time. What about in schools? You
:21:46. > :21:52.mentioned homophobia that might exist in the school playground. How
:21:52. > :21:58.big a problem is that? We said that Stonewall carried out last year
:21:58. > :22:03.found that 55% of secondary school pupils who identify as lesbian or
:22:03. > :22:08.gay are routinely bullied at school, and research into the experience of
:22:08. > :22:14.Teachers confirms that incidents of bullying, so it is still quite a
:22:14. > :22:19.serious issue. So, again, not wanting to be -- to labour the
:22:19. > :22:23.point on geography, is this across the country? Oh, yes, interestingly,
:22:23. > :22:29.that research is always sliced by region, and we did not see huge
:22:29. > :22:33.discrepancies between London and some parts of the country.
:22:33. > :22:38.Similarly, there are also schools, faith schools in rural areas, that
:22:38. > :22:41.are taking huge steps to tackle homophobic bullying at school, and
:22:41. > :22:46.fashionable comprehensives in metropolitan areas that are not.
:22:46. > :22:49.Thank you very much. How much do you know about the
:22:50. > :22:54.texts and internet messages of your children? You feel you have a right
:22:54. > :22:57.to check what they are sending and receiving on their mobiles or
:22:57. > :23:01.through social networking? According to David Cameron's new
:23:01. > :23:04.adviser on childhood, Claire Perry, parents should insist on seeing
:23:04. > :23:08.their kids' computer and phone exchanges. And she believes society
:23:08. > :23:12.has been complicit in allowing youngsters in appropriate contact
:23:12. > :23:16.with strangers. Well, the government is preparing to respond
:23:16. > :23:22.to a report, and she joins us from College Green. Thank you for
:23:22. > :23:26.standing out in the snow, I hope you're not freezing! No, all right.
:23:26. > :23:30.I have not been preparing a report, since I was appointed in his role,
:23:30. > :23:33.I have been responding to a lot of work that the government has been
:23:33. > :23:37.doing around the report that Reg Bailey prepared, and we will hear
:23:37. > :23:41.more about that next week. One of the things that was quite clear in
:23:41. > :23:45.all of the discussions we have been having on this issue for the last,
:23:45. > :23:49.I suppose, two years, really, is that parents have this feeling of
:23:49. > :23:52.powerlessness in their kids' lives. When we were growing up, if someone
:23:52. > :23:56.was phoning our houses or sending letters to the home, parents would
:23:56. > :24:00.feel they had a responsibility to intervene, that somehow we have
:24:00. > :24:04.ceded that responsibility and feel very nervous about getting involved
:24:04. > :24:07.in their online lives. I have got three children, this is not an easy
:24:07. > :24:12.thing to do, but I think it is right that parents should feel they
:24:12. > :24:15.have got a responsibility to get involved. We are usually paying for
:24:15. > :24:19.these mobile phone contracts and devices, we have a responsibility
:24:19. > :24:24.to monitor what is going on. Just before we continue, what about the
:24:24. > :24:27.issue of privacy? If you are a young gay person, you do not want
:24:27. > :24:32.your parents to know at that stage perhaps, do not want to have a
:24:32. > :24:37.little bit of privacy? There are often weighs four people in those
:24:37. > :24:40.circumstances to make contact with appropriate support systems, but I
:24:41. > :24:46.am old enough, I am in the departure lounge of life now!
:24:46. > :24:49.Hardly! I remember when you were put in detention for putting a note
:24:49. > :24:56.on a paper aeroplane that you sent across the classroom, let alone
:24:56. > :25:01.telephoning people from your desk. And I think it is perfectly proper,
:25:01. > :25:05.while children are still vulnerable, to be thinking quite hard about how
:25:05. > :25:11.they are contacting other people. What are you suggesting, Claire
:25:11. > :25:15.Perry, happens here? How are you going to know and encourage more
:25:15. > :25:19.parental supervision on this issue? I think if we go back to the
:25:19. > :25:22.recommendations of the Bailey Review, one of which was about
:25:22. > :25:25.having more family friendly access to the internet, and that is
:25:25. > :25:29.something that we have campaigned on, and indeed we are working on a
:25:29. > :25:33.process now to implement that with the big internet service providers.
:25:33. > :25:37.But I think it is almost educating parents, and thank you for covering
:25:37. > :25:40.this, because there has been a huge amount of interest in this, to say
:25:40. > :25:44.that actually you have got a responsibility, we cannot leave
:25:44. > :25:49.this up his cause of the government. We have all got to get involved,
:25:49. > :25:51.there is a partnership here, and you should feel he while on the
:25:52. > :25:55.front foot in your conversations with your children. You remember
:25:55. > :25:58.your horror when your mother threatened to read your diary? Of
:25:58. > :26:04.course, children should have privacy in Shard, but we have
:26:04. > :26:10.exposed them to a lot of third- party dangers. -- Chris Eakin
:26:10. > :26:17.childhood. Let's get back a bit of pair of Boris Bond's ability, we
:26:17. > :26:20.can all work together. -- a bit of parental responsibility.
:26:20. > :26:23.wanting to be too cynical, you could argue that is just common
:26:23. > :26:28.sense. You need to have government work done on something that most
:26:28. > :26:33.parents will agree with? I agree, and this is simply an expression, I
:26:33. > :26:37.think, of what is underpinning a lot of the work, which is we need a
:26:37. > :26:41.return to common sense, but with the focus of Number Ten and the
:26:41. > :26:45.Government and the Industry and parents getting involved, we would
:26:45. > :26:49.get to a place where Britain is the safest place to grow up as a child
:26:49. > :26:53.in an online world, and that is a good thing. Yes, we do not want to
:26:53. > :26:57.discourage people from becoming technically savvy, but I think that
:26:57. > :27:02.would be pretty hard, my kids are already way ahead of me. In terms
:27:02. > :27:07.of what the Government can do, a crackdown on raunchy music videos,
:27:07. > :27:10.children's access to lads' mags, what are you suggesting? These were
:27:10. > :27:16.front and centre in the Bailey report, and excellent progress has
:27:17. > :27:21.been made, but there is still things to be done. We were chatting
:27:21. > :27:25.people -- chatting about people not -- we were chatting about people
:27:25. > :27:29.watching fairly explicit music videos on MTV, and many others
:27:30. > :27:33.would like to see a proper age rating system, so that parents can
:27:33. > :27:38.choose what their kids are actually watching. The technology gets
:27:38. > :27:41.clever if you can embed those ratings in an online video, and
:27:41. > :27:45.family-friendly builders can pick them up and scream that material.
:27:45. > :27:49.All the technological solutions are there, we are finally focusing on
:27:49. > :27:55.this, and I think parents have a right of responsibility. You can
:27:55. > :28:03.always turn the internet off. People say, Mike kids are on the
:28:03. > :28:07.internet or might, you can switch it off. -- Mike kids. On that issue,
:28:07. > :28:12.the government is limited on what it can do here. Is it a question of
:28:12. > :28:15.holding back the tide? Raunchy music videos are everywhere, on the
:28:15. > :28:19.television, advertising on billboards, how are you going to
:28:19. > :28:27.stop your children being exposed to it? Acting sometimes it can be a
:28:27. > :28:30.question of taking an interest,. -- I think. We should not forget that
:28:31. > :28:35.mobile phones and social media can be used as a network for bullying.
:28:35. > :28:39.Schools have done a lot of work on that. Some of it is about
:28:39. > :28:43.discussing with young people and educating them. The other thing
:28:43. > :28:47.that is sometimes overlooked in his conversation which causes me very
:28:47. > :28:51.great anxiety is, at the same time as thinking about his use of
:28:51. > :28:58.sexualisation as sex, very little seems to be said about the violence
:28:58. > :29:02.that appears on so much readily accessible media, and probably
:29:02. > :29:07.young people are every bit as impressionable in that area as they
:29:08. > :29:13.are around sex, and we possibly need to do some better thinking
:29:13. > :29:19.about how that can be synthesised to make sure that it is reaching
:29:19. > :29:23.people of an appropriate age. Princess Diana, famously, took her
:29:23. > :29:27.children to a film for which they were under-age, and it was regarded
:29:27. > :29:30.as a little bit of a food. Well, that raises the question of whether
:29:31. > :29:40.we are thinking hard enough about these things in the first place.
:29:40. > :29:44.Thank you for being a guest of the Not everything stops when it snows.
:29:44. > :29:48.Not this programme, and we have a busy week in politics. President
:29:48. > :29:52.Obama begins his second term officially this afternoon with his
:29:52. > :29:56.public re-inauguration. The Prime Minister will make a statement in
:29:56. > :30:02.the House of Commons this afternoon on the hostage crisis in Algeria.
:30:02. > :30:06.On Wednesday we will get his long awaited speech on Europe. On Friday
:30:06. > :30:11.the GDP figures are out which could show that the economy is back in
:30:11. > :30:16.negative territory. Joining me now from snowy College
:30:16. > :30:20.Green are Helen Lewis, the deputy editor of the New Statesman, and
:30:20. > :30:23.Kieran Lewis of the -- and Kiran Stacey of the Financial Times.
:30:23. > :30:28.Three British hostages still unaccounted for, it seems the
:30:28. > :30:31.number of foreigners killed will almost certainly go up? Overnight
:30:32. > :30:37.we thought around 23 hostages or people in total may have been
:30:37. > :30:43.killed, the number is now looking much, much high as they go through
:30:43. > :30:48.the gas plant and see how heavy the damage was both to the hostages and
:30:48. > :30:52.hostage-takers. What about the rhetoric coming out of Number Ten?
:30:52. > :30:56.We have heard from David Cameron and William Hague. I mean the
:30:56. > :31:00.rhetoric in terms of how Britain should respond. William Hague has
:31:00. > :31:07.pointed to Somalia as an example of what might happen in Whalley and
:31:07. > :31:11.has said that Britain is not omnipotent, which is something we
:31:11. > :31:21.need to reminding of occasionally - - he has pointed to Somalia as an
:31:21. > :31:26.
:31:26. > :31:31.example of what might have been in mania. -- Mali. We have heard about
:31:31. > :31:36.the next essential threat, there must be a global response? -- and
:31:36. > :31:40.existential threat? The Prime Minister has come -- compared the
:31:40. > :31:45.situation to that in Afghanistan and says it could take decades to
:31:45. > :31:48.sort out. What we will be doing there for decades is really unclear.
:31:48. > :31:53.Talking to defence officials yesterday they were talking about
:31:53. > :31:56.organising conferences and helping regimes, dealing with their own
:31:56. > :32:01.people. Organising conferences for the next 10 years will not clear
:32:01. > :32:05.Al-Qaeda out. The next question is whether we will have troops
:32:05. > :32:11.involved, as they have been in Afghanistan and large parts of the
:32:11. > :32:16.at least, in North Africa for the next 10 years. -- Afghanistan and
:32:16. > :32:21.large parts of the Middle East. long awaited speech is scheduled
:32:21. > :32:25.for Wednesday this week. Do you think it will be an anti-climax
:32:25. > :32:29.after all this time? It has to be, it has been months and months and
:32:29. > :32:35.months that we have been waiting for it. With it being heavily
:32:35. > :32:41.trailed in advance, I don't see what Cameron can save which will be
:32:41. > :32:45.exciting red meat to the Euro- sceptic wing of his party. But he
:32:45. > :32:50.is promising a referendum. It is too late, we have already been told
:32:50. > :32:55.that, he needs to offer something else! It has all been taken into
:32:55. > :33:00.account now, the backbenchers will want to see something else entirely.
:33:00. > :33:05.I have been told there will be some other kind of red meat, something
:33:05. > :33:11.else for Euro-sceptic backbenchers, but I struggle to see what it is.
:33:11. > :33:17.Any ideas? Anything short of rolling tanks into Brussels will be
:33:17. > :33:23.slightly anti-climactic. There is a simple lesson in terms of marching
:33:23. > :33:27.people to the top of the hill and massaging expectations. Helen, how
:33:27. > :33:36.likely do you think the latest GDP figures will show the economy has
:33:36. > :33:40.shrunk? Very likely. People are saying 0.3%, that does not
:33:40. > :33:44.technically put us in a triple dip but it puts us close to one, which
:33:44. > :33:48.is devastating for a government which has pinned its reputation on
:33:48. > :33:53.economic recovery, it will overshadow politics for the next
:33:53. > :33:58.couple of weeks. Kiran Stacey, in terms of the talk about a triple
:33:58. > :34:04.dip recession, it is dangerous territory for George Osborne?
:34:04. > :34:12.But he has become a real tough love chance and everything bounces off
:34:12. > :34:17.him.... Tough love Chancellor. He still seems to be OK. Labour are
:34:17. > :34:20.struggling to get a lead on the crucial test of economic competence.
:34:20. > :34:25.People generally believe that the Government is doing the right thing,
:34:25. > :34:30.even if it is not quite working it will work eventually and, besides,
:34:30. > :34:34.those Labour lot, we don't really trust them on the economy. So I
:34:34. > :34:39.think he has quite a lot of credit with voters and will do even if we
:34:39. > :34:44.are going to triple dip. Do you agree? Absolutely not. I think a
:34:44. > :34:47.lot of the changes this year will be felt in people's pockets, the
:34:47. > :34:52.austerity. We have had a squeeze a living standards for years and the
:34:52. > :34:57.worst pain has not happened yet. When it does, we will see whether
:34:57. > :35:02.he really is Teflon or not. When the UK loses its triple A credit
:35:02. > :35:06.rating, which almost certainly happen, George Osborne has made a
:35:06. > :35:11.huge deal out of the credit rating so that will be a massive blow to
:35:11. > :35:17.his credibility. Thank you both out in the snow. Get
:35:17. > :35:22.back inside. The Conservative MP and chairman of
:35:22. > :35:25.the Foreign Affairs Select Committee Richard Ottaway, a Labour
:35:25. > :35:30.MP and the former Lib Dem leader Ming Campbell joined me for the
:35:30. > :35:34.rest of the programme. Let's talk about Algeria and Mali. The Prime
:35:34. > :35:37.Minister yesterday warned that Islamic terrorism in the north and
:35:37. > :35:42.west of Africa was an ongoing threat which would take years to
:35:42. > :35:47.will become. This is a stark reminder once again off the threat
:35:47. > :35:51.we face from terrorism the world over. We have had successes in
:35:51. > :35:56.recent years in reducing the threat from some parts of the world, but
:35:56. > :36:00.the threat has grown, particularly in North Africa. This is a global
:36:00. > :36:05.threat which will require a global response. It will require a
:36:05. > :36:09.response which is about years, even decades, rather than months, and it
:36:09. > :36:15.requires a response that his patient and painstaking and tough
:36:15. > :36:20.but also intelligent, but above all has an absolutely iron resolve.
:36:20. > :36:24.Richard Ottaway, has he ramped up the rhetoric too much talking about
:36:24. > :36:29.a global threat needing a global response and that North African
:36:29. > :36:33.militants are existential threat, presumably to the West. I don't
:36:33. > :36:38.think so. If you look at the report of the 9/11 Commission after the
:36:38. > :36:42.Twin Towers attacks 12 years ago, they forecast that a growing
:36:42. > :36:46.population across the Middle East and North Africa would lead to
:36:46. > :36:50.social turbulence. I think what we have seen in the last few weeks,
:36:50. > :36:54.the social turbulence has arrived. Hundreds of millions of kids are
:36:54. > :36:59.out of work without proper jobs, no ambition or aspiration, and they
:36:59. > :37:03.are seduced by the jihadist militants. Actually if there is a
:37:03. > :37:09.challenge here now, it is one of they'd rather than military. The
:37:09. > :37:17.focus has to go on to how to redress the social turbulence we
:37:17. > :37:20.are seeing in the region. David Cameron made a loose comparison in
:37:20. > :37:25.the response, like the response he made in Afghanistan, up that there
:37:25. > :37:30.should be so military involvement. Do you think he will rule that out?
:37:30. > :37:35.I would be surprised if we saw blips on the ground. I think you'll
:37:35. > :37:39.see support and aid like we have in Mali, providing logistics support,
:37:39. > :37:44.I think that is what he will be saying this afternoon. Ming
:37:44. > :37:49.Campbell, what do you want to hear from David Campbell? More about
:37:49. > :37:53.tough but intelligent. When you are assessing the rhetoric, you have to
:37:53. > :38:00.listen to the whole of it. The Prime Minister has been in back-to-
:38:00. > :38:04.back meetings of COBRA for the last four days, it is inevitable that
:38:04. > :38:11.you will have a sense of relief, you might begin stronger and more
:38:11. > :38:15.dramatic terms. I think a lot will depend on the intelligence and
:38:15. > :38:19.foreign policy analysis. This is an area where the United Kingdom has
:38:19. > :38:23.not been particularly prominent for quite a long time, and in that
:38:23. > :38:27.respect we will have to work in close co-operation with the French,
:38:27. > :38:35.because they know this part of the world rather better than we do. I
:38:35. > :38:41.also hope that he will talk about operating, along with our lives. --
:38:41. > :38:45.along with allies. Have we been slow off the mark in dealing with
:38:45. > :38:51.the North African jihadist threat? We are still out of Afghanistan and
:38:51. > :38:55.will not be out of there until 2014, although there are suggestions, and
:38:55. > :38:59.Obama might talk about it today, that the Americans would come out
:38:59. > :39:04.earlier. We might then come out earlier two. We have a very
:39:04. > :39:09.substantial cuts to the defence budget, we are going from 98,000
:39:09. > :39:14.members of the army to 82,000. When people are talking about pits on
:39:14. > :39:22.the ground, it might not be choice, it might be a necessity -- bids on
:39:22. > :39:26.the ground. Gisela Stuart, bearing in mind the terms that David
:39:26. > :39:30.Cameron used, should we be providing a more robust response?
:39:30. > :39:33.Number 10 have reiterated there will be no combat role for British
:39:33. > :39:39.forces in Mali, but does the British Government need to be
:39:39. > :39:44.upping its game? It needs to say something this afternoon about the
:39:44. > :39:49.security of these workers working in oil and gas installations. But
:39:49. > :39:52.he needs to show a sense of how this happened. The first
:39:52. > :39:57.international arrest warrant for Osama Bin Laden was requested in
:39:57. > :40:01.the mid- 90s by Gaddafi. There has been an awareness in North Africa
:40:01. > :40:07.of a fundamental threat, which I think the West has ignored, to some
:40:07. > :40:15.extent. Secondly, how does he think the NATO Lycett allies will work
:40:15. > :40:20.together? It is the intelligent approach I am looking for, rather
:40:20. > :40:24.than tough language, which could be applied to any conflict. Richard,
:40:24. > :40:33.there is a difference between criminal gangs of Islamic militants
:40:33. > :40:37.and jihadi is, Mokhtar Belmokhtar was one of those. And also over-
:40:37. > :40:40.reacting and saying it is a global threat from Al-Qaeda. Should it be
:40:40. > :40:46.left more internally to some of the North African countries to deal
:40:46. > :40:50.with because there is a risk of escalating the conflict? A around
:40:50. > :40:57.the world, Al-Qaeda is being driven out of its traditional heartlands
:40:57. > :41:03.of Pakistan and Afghanistan and moving into Somalia, Algeria, Mali,
:41:03. > :41:05.Nigeria. It needs an international response. The effort lies primarily
:41:05. > :41:10.in intelligence, reassessment of the strategic role that the West
:41:10. > :41:16.will play. They have been driven out of Pakistan and Afghanistan in
:41:16. > :41:19.part because of drone attacks. That is why they have gone. Does it not
:41:19. > :41:24.need to be matched in the same way in these other parts of north and
:41:24. > :41:27.west Africa? They have been driven out but not destroyed. They moved
:41:27. > :41:30.to other countries where governments is weak in the hope of
:41:30. > :41:35.exploiting it. If you go through the Middle East, starting with
:41:35. > :41:39.Egypt, where the outcome of the most recent election as a matter of
:41:39. > :41:44.some dispute, going to Syria, where we don't know what the outcome is
:41:44. > :41:47.likely to be at all, in the Middle East there are lots of
:41:47. > :41:50.opportunities forced Dutch opera for instability and potential
:41:50. > :41:54.instability. If you just drive them from one country to another you are
:41:54. > :41:59.not dealing with the problem and you might be adding to the very
:41:59. > :42:05.instability in these countries. you think this is just a group of
:42:05. > :42:11.roaming criminals? They are criminals... It is money, drug
:42:11. > :42:15.running? It is cigarettes. Mokhtar Belmokhtar was making money out of
:42:15. > :42:20.illegal cigarettes. They are very important thing is not to call this
:42:20. > :42:26.a war. If you call it a war, you are using their language and
:42:26. > :42:31.adopting or endorsing their moral justification. Name mentioned Syria,
:42:31. > :42:37.but we have to be careful who we work with. -- Ming Campbell
:42:37. > :42:45.mentioned Syria. Some of the Syrian opposition needs to take a closer
:42:45. > :42:48.look... The Prime Minister himself, clearly being the left, one way or
:42:48. > :42:54.another, out of what was going on and what the Algerian government
:42:54. > :42:58.was doing, do you think David Cameron's language, and William
:42:58. > :43:02.Hague's, changed, in the way they were talking about the Algerians?
:43:02. > :43:05.For they were clearly frustrated at being excluded but I don't think it
:43:05. > :43:08.made much difference to the end result, they just wanted
:43:09. > :43:12.information, which is understandable. I think their
:43:12. > :43:17.response has been and continues to be pretty mature. I don't read
:43:17. > :43:22.anything into this. Let's turn to the Prime Minister's
:43:22. > :43:26.big speech on Europe. We have turned to it so awful lot of times!
:43:26. > :43:36.We have learned this morning we will get to hear what David Cameron
:43:36. > :43:37.
:43:37. > :43:41.has to say on Wednesday, we hope! A UKIP MP joins us now. We have a
:43:42. > :43:47.vexed tracks from the speech, are you satisfied? -- we have extracts
:43:47. > :43:51.from the speech. I am looking forward to a firm commitment from
:43:51. > :43:56.David Cameron that he believes the British role remains within the
:43:56. > :44:04.European Union as a leading player. That will be the important part.
:44:04. > :44:08.an in-out referendum crucial to satisfy your colleagues? I think he
:44:08. > :44:12.quite clearly wants to give it his best shot at achieving a new
:44:12. > :44:17.relationship with the rest of Europe and, let's face it, the rest
:44:17. > :44:21.of Europe needs a new -- a new relationship with itself at the
:44:21. > :44:25.moment. And he will probably put back to the British people in a
:44:25. > :44:29.referendum. Will it satisfy some of your colleagues? Some of my
:44:29. > :44:33.colleagues would never be satisfied unless we were outside of the
:44:33. > :44:41.European Union. But I think it will satisfy the broad middle ground of
:44:41. > :44:43.the Conservative Party and Britain as a whole. David Cameron will move
:44:43. > :44:49.into your territory, taking away the reason for disaffected Tories
:44:49. > :44:53.to vote for you? The only referendum that would make any
:44:53. > :44:57.sense would be an in-out referendum very soon. He cannot renegotiate
:44:58. > :45:02.our relationship with the EU. If you are going to change that you
:45:02. > :45:07.need a new treaty with unanimous consent of the 27 member states, 28
:45:07. > :45:12.when Croatia joins. I think the whole thing as a Conservative Party
:45:12. > :45:17.con trick to try to get voters back onside before the 2014 Euro-
:45:17. > :45:21.elections and the general election in 2015. If he wants to renegotiate
:45:21. > :45:25.he can do that now and it would put him in a strong position if he
:45:26. > :45:31.renegotiated now and brought that before the general election, but he
:45:31. > :45:37.can't do that because it is not on offer. Richard Ottaway, it is a
:45:37. > :45:42.conservative con-trick? Rubbish. This is a very serious policy and
:45:42. > :45:45.UKIP obviously have their own agenda. We are not in a position to
:45:45. > :45:50.have a referendum anyway because there is not a majority in
:45:50. > :45:55.parliament that wants to have a referendum. A sensible, measured
:45:55. > :45:59.approach is the right way forward. There would be if the Liberal
:45:59. > :46:03.Democrats came on board. In 2010 make promised an earn-out
:46:03. > :46:09.referendum in their manifesto. Where has that on? If if further
:46:09. > :46:12.powers were to be transported to Brussels, and that is in the
:46:13. > :46:17.Conservative -- the coalition agreement. If further powers were
:46:18. > :46:23.transported to Brussels, there would be a referendum. In 2010 the
:46:23. > :46:27.Liberal Democrat said we will have a fundamental... I think you did!
:46:27. > :46:30.certainly did not campaign and it. The Liberal Democrats therefore
:46:30. > :46:33.remain committed to end in out referendum the next time a British
:46:33. > :46:37.government signs up to a fundamental change... The fact you
:46:37. > :46:41.are committed to end in out referendum, not just a referendum.
:46:41. > :46:48.Why has that changed? We have the coalition agreement. It is the
:46:48. > :46:52.measure of an agreement between the two parties. It is not a con trick,
:46:52. > :46:58.it is an effort to square a circle, to set us by Angela Merkel adopt
:46:58. > :47:04.the same time Gisela Stuart. The fact of the matter is... This is
:47:04. > :47:07.all my fault?! I am just pointing out how difficult it is. If you go
:47:07. > :47:13.into Europe and say we know there is a crisis in the eurozone, we
:47:13. > :47:17.know you need stability but we are not going to help unless you do a,
:47:17. > :47:21.b and c, you are likely to get a favourable response. If we say, we
:47:21. > :47:25.know there is a crisis, the stability of the eurozone is in our
:47:25. > :47:30.financial and economic interest, we will help. But, by the way, here
:47:30. > :47:40.are some other things we would like to consider. A you think there is a
:47:40. > :47:41.
:47:41. > :47:46.good chance of repatriating powers? Should then be a referendum now?
:47:46. > :47:49.what is the question? The European Union will fundamentally change,
:47:49. > :47:53.those within the eurozone will have deeper integration, and that means
:47:53. > :47:57.those countries outside, including the UK, needs to look at how they
:47:57. > :48:01.relate to it. That is what can and ought to address, whereas he
:48:01. > :48:04.created... It will be interesting to see how he does, because he is
:48:04. > :48:08.giving a speech for internal party political reasons, not because he
:48:08. > :48:14.has got something useful to say, and unless you tell us what the out
:48:14. > :48:19.would mean, it really is a con, and he ought to address... How is it a
:48:19. > :48:25.con? She is saying that the outbid of the referendum is a con to the
:48:25. > :48:28.British people. The only thing that makes sense, is do you want to be
:48:29. > :48:33.part of the United States of Europe? That is where it is heading,
:48:33. > :48:37.it is almost there anyway. Do you want to reassert just status as an
:48:37. > :48:41.independent nation? There is no other choice on offer. You were
:48:41. > :48:44.talking about further powers being taken by the EU, and it is very
:48:44. > :48:48.difficult from my position in the parliament, where I see this
:48:48. > :48:53.legislation coming through, to see what powers they could still take.
:48:53. > :48:58.There's very little now that the House of Commons has power over.
:48:58. > :49:03.According to a German study in 2006, about 84% of our new laws come from
:49:03. > :49:09.the European Union, covering every aspect of national life. OK, let me
:49:09. > :49:12.put that to Gisela Stuart, that is the only choice. No, it is not. We
:49:12. > :49:15.will always have to have a relationship with our neighbours.
:49:15. > :49:22.But you could come out of the European Union had just be like
:49:22. > :49:26.Norway? But we are not Norway, we are the sixth largest... It is
:49:26. > :49:29.crazy, that is not the choice, but there is a fundamental question for
:49:30. > :49:33.those countries within the geography of Europe who will not
:49:33. > :49:38.join the single currency and how they will relate to each other and
:49:38. > :49:44.how they will relate to the core of Europe, and that is the work that
:49:44. > :49:47.camera needs to do. Let me explode the myth about Norway. It sits at
:49:47. > :49:52.side of the room when decisions are being taken, but in order to trade
:49:52. > :49:55.with... They still have access to the markets. It has to sign up to
:49:55. > :50:01.all the protocols, and edition, often forgotten, it has to
:50:01. > :50:06.contribute money to the European Union which, if scaled up, would be
:50:06. > :50:10.equivalent to �3.5 billion for the UK. So this notion that somehow
:50:10. > :50:16.Norway is a paradigm that we should aim for makes no sense whatsoever.
:50:16. > :50:19.It gives you obligations, but it does not give you openings. Gerard
:50:19. > :50:24.Butler, you are going to say something. We are much bigger and
:50:24. > :50:28.more powerful than Norway. Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU,
:50:28. > :50:32.they both have higher per-capita incomes than Britain. Switzerland
:50:32. > :50:37.did a study in 2006 on its possible relationship with the EU, and they
:50:37. > :50:41.worked out it would cost them six times more to actually be a member
:50:41. > :50:45.of the European Union than stay outside. Both of those countries to
:50:45. > :50:49.trade with the EU. Britain is a much bigger economy than they are.
:50:49. > :50:52.We could still trade with the EU and the rest of the world, but what
:50:52. > :50:56.is important is that Britain is a global trading nation, and we do
:50:56. > :51:03.not want to restrict ourselves just to the European Union. What should
:51:03. > :51:07.Ed Miliband be saying now? Something! At the moment there is a
:51:07. > :51:12.lot of prevarication from Labour in terms of what they would offer.
:51:12. > :51:17.and a half years away from a general election... No, it is no
:51:17. > :51:20.good, no... It is for the Government to propose. This beaches
:51:20. > :51:24.of David Cameron's choosing, and if he does not have something useful
:51:24. > :51:29.to say, he should not have talked it up. This is the same Labour
:51:29. > :51:34.Party that joined with the Euro- sceptics on the backbenches of the
:51:34. > :51:37.Conservative Party in order to defeat the Government's proposal
:51:37. > :51:41.about the budget of the European Union. If we are cutting everything
:51:42. > :51:46.including welfare, we cut this as well. This is an opportunity to say
:51:46. > :51:49.that and then say we are committed Europeans. We never have
:51:49. > :51:53.opportunism in politics, of course! Thank you very much.
:51:53. > :51:57.For easing weather and snow across many parts of the UK, have you
:51:57. > :52:01.noticed? It has brought transport to a standstill in some parts of
:52:01. > :52:09.the country. Nearly 5,000 schools have been closed and passengers are
:52:09. > :52:14.facing delays to journeys by road, Heathrow has cancelled more than 10
:52:14. > :52:18.design sign of its schedule, 187 fights, while flights at Leeds,
:52:18. > :52:22.Manchester and East Midlands have been suspended. -- more than 10% of
:52:22. > :52:30.its schedule. Jo main roads in North Yorkshire have been closed
:52:30. > :52:34.because of snow. -- two. Up to eight inches of snow is forecast to
:52:34. > :52:40.fall in some areas. West Yorkshire has been at the centre of today's
:52:40. > :52:46.snow for, and Ed Thomas is in Bradford. Ed, how did you get to
:52:46. > :52:52.where you are? With a lot of difficulty, but I did get here,
:52:52. > :52:56.that is the good thing! It has just started to slow down, the snow here,
:52:56. > :53:01.but this is the picture in West Yorkshire now, Bradford today. When
:53:01. > :53:05.people walk up on the street this morning, they saw all this no, and
:53:05. > :53:11.then they decided to go back to bed again. A lot of these cars have not
:53:11. > :53:17.moved today. This one behind he is a taxi, and this has had an impact
:53:17. > :53:21.on people's lives. -- behind me. This is how much snow as fallen in
:53:21. > :53:24.Bradford, not scientific, but it would give you some idea. I am told
:53:24. > :53:29.it is up to five inches. Four streets like this, it has meant a
:53:29. > :53:34.lot of people have had to stay indoors. Because of that, a lot of
:53:34. > :53:37.schools have closed in Yorkshire, over 750 have had to shut their
:53:37. > :53:41.doors to children, which has had an impact on people's lives because it
:53:41. > :53:46.stops parents from going to work. We can just about walk on the
:53:46. > :53:50.streets here, but take a look at the main A-roads. They are passable,
:53:50. > :53:54.they have been gritted by the local council, as have many across the
:53:54. > :53:59.North of England, and they are passable with care. This road takes
:53:59. > :54:05.you into Bradford from the M60 to in that direction, so it is looking
:54:05. > :54:11.OK on the main roads. -- the M62. The back roads are passable with
:54:11. > :54:16.care. Problems also at Manchester Airport, Leeds-Bradford, Robin Hood
:54:16. > :54:20.airport, delays and cancellations. On the trains, the East Coast
:54:20. > :54:23.mainline has delays of half an hour, as on the West Coast Main Line. We
:54:23. > :54:27.have had delays and that as well. It all goes to show that the snow
:54:27. > :54:31.is not the heaviest it has been in the North of England, but it is
:54:31. > :54:36.having any impact on people's lives. It is dying down here now, but more
:54:36. > :54:41.is expected later in the north-east of England and Scotland. Check your
:54:41. > :54:45.local weather forecast to see how it will affect you. Ed, thank you
:54:45. > :54:49.for telling us in! Keep warm and the safe. It seems that the roads
:54:49. > :54:53.have fared better this year, because for a few years we have had
:54:53. > :54:58.this kind of snow, but is this more efficient gritting, cars have been
:54:58. > :55:02.able to pass, the trains have not been too bad, but the transport
:55:02. > :55:07.network, is enough being done to make sure that it functions? I grew
:55:07. > :55:12.up in southern Bavaria, where this would not even...! What I would say
:55:12. > :55:16.is, yes, they are getting better, any driver should ring the nearest
:55:16. > :55:20.driving school and get themselves lessons in driving in these kind of
:55:20. > :55:26.conditions. The thing which strikes me, even when the roads have been
:55:26. > :55:29.gritted, drivers are not used to it, they start using... It is not the
:55:29. > :55:33.snow tyres, it is winter tyres, which are more effective if the
:55:33. > :55:39.temperature falls below seven degrees, one-fifth of the year.
:55:39. > :55:44.Your garage will store it for you of a winter, just to learn to drive.
:55:44. > :55:49.Ming Campbell, Heathrow, is it acceptable that an international
:55:49. > :55:54.airport flight Heathrow can cancel 190 flights, as it has done today,
:55:54. > :55:57.and hundreds over the weekend? took me 10 hours from the centre of
:55:57. > :56:01.Edinburgh to my flat in Pimlico yesterday, because I went to
:56:01. > :56:06.Edinburgh airport for a flight which continued to be described on
:56:06. > :56:10.the internet as leaving at 5 o'clock. I got there, I was still
:56:10. > :56:14.there at seven, when they said it was cancelled, and then through the
:56:14. > :56:19.good grace of the people I know, because I am a regular traveller, I
:56:19. > :56:24.was put on to another flight. Contacts! Eventually, we got to
:56:24. > :56:28.Gatwick, not even Heathrow, at just after 12 o'clock. And the point is,
:56:29. > :56:32.we know that this is going to happen at some stage. Why on earth
:56:32. > :56:36.are we ready? It is like one of the slow-moving car crashes, you can
:56:36. > :56:44.see what is going happen four days ahead, but nothing is done to avert
:56:44. > :56:50.it. Isn't the problem specifically at Heathrow? Gatwick fared better.
:56:50. > :56:54.Because his eyes at 97% capacity, I heard the woman from BAA saying we
:56:54. > :56:57.have a plane landing every 45 seconds, there is no room to
:56:57. > :57:04.manoeuvre, to space them out. Don't we need to do something about
:57:04. > :57:07.expansion? The debate about expansion, of course, is enormously
:57:07. > :57:11.controversial, Boris putting his all in... The Liberal Democrats
:57:11. > :57:16.ruling it out. At Heathrow. Shouldn't that be the international
:57:16. > :57:20.airport? I think we have to look at other opportunities. Of course, if
:57:20. > :57:24.you have other opportunities in respect of airports, you have got
:57:24. > :57:28.to have the fast links to the centre of London, which are
:57:28. > :57:32.complementary to that. What about the impact this is having on the
:57:32. > :57:37.economy? Well, it is bound to have an impact on the economy, and what
:57:37. > :57:41.is more... The government cannot afford that at this stage. If it is
:57:41. > :57:45.any consolation, I was in Moscow a few weeks ago, when they get snow
:57:45. > :57:53.all the time, and there was just as much chaos, notably shut, airports
:57:53. > :57:57.closed. Is that a justification? but the point is, stuff happens, Jo,
:57:57. > :58:01.we just get on with it. But we ought to be looking ahead, and
:58:01. > :58:05.there is a serious issue about capacity. We have had this sort of
:58:05. > :58:08.snow every year for the last few years, George Osborne blamed it for
:58:08. > :58:12.the lack of growth, and no doubt we will have a shrinking of the
:58:12. > :58:16.economy and it is going to happen again. Can we allow the weather to
:58:16. > :58:20.have that much of an impact? As we say, it happens, and we have to
:58:20. > :58:24.learn to live with it. You know, we are struggling with the economy, it
:58:24. > :58:29.is bumping along, as you were saying earlier, possibly going into
:58:29. > :58:37.a corrugated bottom. On a corrugated bottom, we will finish
:58:37. > :58:43.there! The answer to our quiz, he was performing at President Obama's
:58:43. > :58:46.ceremony? Who knows the answer? Beyonce! Well done, Richard Ottaway.