23/01/2013

:00:37. > :00:41.us to settle this question about Good morning folks. Welcome to the

:00:41. > :00:45.Daily Politics. The Prime Minister promises an in and out out

:00:45. > :00:51.referendum on the European Union before 2018. But before that he

:00:51. > :00:56.will try to negotiate a better deal for Britain that he can say yes to.

:00:56. > :01:01.David Cameron argues the reform of the EU to make it more competitive

:01:01. > :01:05.and he says if we can negotiate such an agreement, he will campaign

:01:05. > :01:08.for Britain to stay in. We will bring you reaction to that speech

:01:08. > :01:12.from the worlds of politics and business and we have got Prime

:01:12. > :01:17.Minister's Questions live at noon. And have we got the news wrong?

:01:17. > :01:21.Designer Wayne Hemmingway makes a plea for more good news.

:01:21. > :01:29.On the whole, stories that could move mankind forward and impact on

:01:29. > :01:35.our lives don't get the exposure they deserve.

:01:35. > :01:42.Good news, it will never catch on! What happened to Martin Lewis. He

:01:42. > :01:47.argued for that. With us for the duration on this big day for

:01:47. > :01:50.British politics, two politicians. Shadow Energy Secretary and former

:01:50. > :01:54.Europe Minister, that's relevant, it is Caroline Flint and

:01:54. > :01:56.Conservative Party chairman, Grant Shapps. Welcome to you both. Thank

:01:56. > :02:00.you. Thank you.

:02:00. > :02:05.So if David Cameron is Prime Minister after the next general

:02:05. > :02:10.election, he says the British people will get a vote vote on

:02:10. > :02:15.whether we should remain members of the European Union by 2018, giving

:02:15. > :02:18.him time to negotiate the repatriation of major powers from

:02:18. > :02:23.Brussels back to Britain. The Prime Minister said in a speech in London

:02:23. > :02:26.this morning, delayed from last Friday because of the Algerian

:02:26. > :02:29.hostage crisis. Jo has the details. The Prime Minister said that he

:02:29. > :02:37.wanted the European Union and Britain's relationship to it to

:02:37. > :02:43.change. The EU interfierce too much in natural life. Powers should be

:02:43. > :02:48.repattry repattry -- repattry repatriated to the United Kingdom.

:02:48. > :02:53.The treaty commitment for all member states should be removed.

:02:53. > :02:59.Some countries might want to pursue further inger further integration,

:02:59. > :03:04.but Britain does not. David Cameron would seek to negotiate a new deal

:03:04. > :03:08.with Europe. He set out a rough timetable. Legislation will be

:03:08. > :03:11.drafted before the next election. If the Conservatives win an overall

:03:12. > :03:14.majority at the election, they will pass the new law in their first

:03:14. > :03:19.year in Government and the referendum itself will be held in

:03:19. > :03:24.the first-half of the Parliament by the beginning of 2018. He concluded

:03:24. > :03:28.by saying if he could renegotiate a new settlement, he would campaign

:03:28. > :03:32.to stay in the EU. That, he said, was the best path for Britain and

:03:32. > :03:36.for Europe. Let's have a listen to what Mr Cameron had to say.

:03:36. > :03:42.biggest danger to the European Union comes not from those who

:03:42. > :03:47.advocate change, but from those who denounce new thinking as heresy. In

:03:47. > :03:50.its long history, Europe has experience of her particulars who

:03:51. > :03:56.turned out to have a point. My point is this, more of the same

:03:56. > :03:59.will not secure a long-term future for the eurozone, more of the same

:03:59. > :04:03.will not see the European Union keeping pace with the new

:04:03. > :04:08.Powerhouse economies, more of the same will not bring the European

:04:08. > :04:14.Union closer to its citizens. More of the same will just produce more

:04:14. > :04:20.of the same. Less competitiveness, less growth, fewer jobs. Today

:04:20. > :04:23.public disillusionment with the EU is at an all time high and there

:04:23. > :04:29.are several reasons. People feel that the EU is heading in a

:04:29. > :04:33.direction that they never signed up to. They resent the interference in

:04:33. > :04:39.our national life life by what they see as unnecessary rules and

:04:39. > :04:44.regulation. They wondered what the point of it is? They ask why can't

:04:44. > :04:50.we have what we voted to join - a Common Market. Now some argue that

:04:50. > :04:56.the solution is therefore, to hold a straight in/out referendum now.

:04:56. > :05:00.Now, I understand the impatience of wanting to make that choice

:05:00. > :05:04.immediately, I don't believe that to make a decision at this moment

:05:04. > :05:08.is the right way forward either for Britain or for Europe as a whole. A

:05:08. > :05:13.vote today today between the status quo and leaving would be an

:05:13. > :05:18.entirely false choice. Now, while the EU is in flux, and when we

:05:18. > :05:22.don't know what the future holds and what sort of EU will emerge

:05:22. > :05:26.from this crisis is not the time to make such a momentous decision

:05:27. > :05:31.about the future of our country. It is wrong to ask people whether to

:05:31. > :05:35.stay or go before we have had a chance to put the relationship

:05:35. > :05:39.right. How can we sensibly answer the question - in or out? Without

:05:39. > :05:46.being able to answer the most basic question. What is it that we are

:05:46. > :05:51.choosing to be in or out of? So the next Conservative manifesto in 2015

:05:51. > :05:54.will ask for a mandate from the British people for a Conservative

:05:54. > :05:59.Government to negotiate a new settlement with our European

:05:59. > :06:03.partners in the next Parliament. It will be a relationship with the

:06:03. > :06:08.single market at its heart. And when we have negotiated that new

:06:08. > :06:13.settlement, we will give the British people a referendum with a

:06:13. > :06:23.very simple in or out choice. To stay in the European Union on these

:06:23. > :06:27.new terms or to come out altogether. It will be an in/out referendum.

:06:27. > :06:31.Legislation will be drafted before the next election and if a

:06:31. > :06:36.Conservative Government is elected, we will introduce the enabling

:06:36. > :06:39.legislation and pass it by the end of that year. And we will complete

:06:39. > :06:44.this negotiation and hold this referendum within the first-half of

:06:44. > :06:49.the next Parliament. It is time for the British people to have their

:06:49. > :06:54.say. It is time for us to settle this question about Britain and

:06:54. > :06:58.Europe. Now, I understand the appeal of going it alone, of

:06:58. > :07:05.charting our own course, but it will be a decision we will have to

:07:05. > :07:09.take with cool heads. People on both side of the argument will need

:07:09. > :07:13.to avoid exaggerating their claims. Of course, Britain could make her

:07:13. > :07:16.own way in the world outside the EU if we chose to do so. So could any

:07:17. > :07:21.other member state, but the question we will have to ask

:07:21. > :07:24.ourselves, is that the best future for our country? We will have to

:07:24. > :07:29.weigh carefully where our true national interests lies.

:07:29. > :07:33.The Prime Minister speaking this morning. Joining Caroline Flint and

:07:33. > :07:37.Grant Shapps, the deputy leader of UKIP, Paul Nuttall and we are

:07:37. > :07:41.joined by the former leader of the Liberal Democrats, Charles Kennedy.

:07:41. > :07:45.Welcome to you all. Grant gran, the Prime Minister -- Grant Shapps, the

:07:45. > :07:50.Prime Minister said if we can negotiate such an arrange m, I will

:07:50. > :07:54.campaign for it, with all my heart and soul to stay in. What happens

:07:54. > :07:59.if he can't? We know there has to be a negotiation in any case

:07:59. > :08:03.because you have got 17 countries within the eurozone who will

:08:03. > :08:08.require a different treaty in order to handle the political aspects of

:08:08. > :08:12.that closer union of currency. So in that case, they require our kind

:08:12. > :08:16.of involvement in order to produce that new treaty and that of course,

:08:16. > :08:22.is a negotiation into itself. So the idea that there could be no

:08:22. > :08:26.negotiation, I think... No, no, I didn't ask that. I asked what

:08:26. > :08:31.happens if he can't sufficient powers returned to Britain that he

:08:32. > :08:35.thinks worthwhile recommending. What would he do then? We will have

:08:35. > :08:40.a referendum. One step at a time. First of all, we are going to

:08:40. > :08:44.publish legislation in this Parliament that we will pass in the

:08:44. > :08:47.next Parliament. I know that. November 2017 we will have a

:08:47. > :08:52.referendum based on what ever has been negotiated by then. You are

:08:52. > :08:57.asking what will be negotiated? no, I'm saying if the Prime

:08:58. > :09:01.Minister feels at the end of the day, that he is not -- he has not

:09:01. > :09:07.got a big enough package of powers to recommend to the British people

:09:07. > :09:11.what does he do in the referendum? Does he say we should still stay in

:09:11. > :09:15.or we have got today's status quo, we should leave. What should he do?

:09:15. > :09:18.Rather than trying to estimate the end of the process, let's be clear

:09:18. > :09:22.about what the process is and know there will be a referendum. So

:09:23. > :09:25.either way, people will get to choose and decide. That's vital.

:09:25. > :09:28.The British people have been overlooked for too long.

:09:28. > :09:32.You are not answering the question. The Prime Minister didn't answer

:09:32. > :09:36.the question this morning either. But Michael Gove... The public will

:09:36. > :09:41.answer the question. So does that matter? No, no, we are going to

:09:41. > :09:44.have a referendum which does not have a package of repatriated

:09:44. > :09:49.powers, we want to know what the Prime Minister will say? We don't

:09:49. > :09:53.believe that will be the situation for the simple reason - well, it

:09:53. > :09:57.won't be because there will be a renegotiation in order for the euro

:09:57. > :10:03.countries to do what they want. We don't know what he wants out of

:10:03. > :10:06.The British people will decide and... You won't answer the

:10:07. > :10:10.question and the Prime Minister won't. Michael Gove told The Mail

:10:10. > :10:15.on Sunday, you are only serious if you threaten to leave. That's what

:10:15. > :10:18.he said. You are not serious, are you? Well, a referendum gives the

:10:18. > :10:22.British people the upper han. They are not doing the negotiations,

:10:22. > :10:26.you are, are you going to say to Europe, if we are do not get a

:10:26. > :10:32.sufficient package which I can go to the British people and say,

:10:32. > :10:35."Vote to stay in." Will you say, we will leave? The answer is we don't

:10:35. > :10:41.believe we will be in that position... You don't know, do you?

:10:41. > :10:45.I can't see into the future. The process is simple. In the en, the

:10:45. > :10:49.British people will get to decide. We have said we want a campaign to

:10:49. > :10:52.be in, but on a new basis of renegotiation. It is impossible to

:10:53. > :10:56.end up in the position that you describe.

:10:56. > :11:00.Grant Shapps, none of this answers my question. But I know when I am

:11:00. > :11:06.beaten, Caroline Flint? There will be some negotiation because there

:11:06. > :11:10.is clearly... So we are agreed...? Hang on a second. The truth is

:11:10. > :11:13.David Cameron, it is an important speech today for all of us in the

:11:13. > :11:18.country, politicians and the public, said we will have a referendum by

:11:18. > :11:23.the end of 2017, but it is on the basis of what we don't know is

:11:23. > :11:28.going to be his, if you like, negotiating platform of what he

:11:28. > :11:33.will decide, if I don't get this and if I don't get that, I will be

:11:33. > :11:36.saying yes or no. It is an unknown where we are going now. It creates

:11:36. > :11:41.uncertainty and in terms of building bridges, Andrew, in order

:11:41. > :11:47.to get any changes, we have to get, you have to get agreement by all 27

:11:47. > :11:52.member states. I don't think this is thought through about how we are

:11:52. > :11:54.going to negotiate. If it is true, as the Prime Minister says, that he

:11:54. > :11:59.would like to stay in the European Union.

:11:59. > :12:03.If you don't want a in/out referendum, vote Labour?

:12:03. > :12:07.position is we do not believe today, if we were in Government today,

:12:07. > :12:10.Andrew and we have been asked if we would have a referendum, our

:12:10. > :12:13.position is today where we stand as a country, it is not in this

:12:13. > :12:17.country's interests to have an in/out referendum.

:12:17. > :12:20.If you don't want a referendum on the EU, vote Labour? We are saying

:12:20. > :12:24.that... Is that right? We are saying, actually we are saying

:12:24. > :12:28.today we don't think it is right to spend the next five years.

:12:28. > :12:31.You will not give the British people... I condition tell you what

:12:31. > :12:37.the situation is going to be -- I can't tell you what the situation

:12:37. > :12:47.is going to be at the next election when these changes go on in Europe.

:12:47. > :12:47.

:12:47. > :12:51.You criticised him for not being able to tell me. If we were asked

:12:51. > :12:55.do we think we should enter into discussions about an in/out

:12:55. > :12:59.referendum. I can't tell you what the European Union situation will

:12:59. > :13:02.be in two or three years time and in those circumstances we are not

:13:03. > :13:07.ruling out, but we are saying it is a distraction.

:13:07. > :13:11.You might offer an in/out referendum in the 2015 election?

:13:11. > :13:19.You don't rule that out? We cannot rule in or out if you like the

:13:19. > :13:22.possibility of having one in the future. What I'm saying... We have

:13:22. > :13:27.supported in Parliament, legislation, we have got

:13:27. > :13:33.legislation which says if there is a transfer.. You voted against it?

:13:33. > :13:37.No, we didn't. No, we didn't. I have it here. No, no, I have got

:13:37. > :13:41.your voteling record here. You voted against it.

:13:41. > :13:46.We thought Parliament should decide. We did not vote against it. The

:13:46. > :13:52.truth is, hang on, hang on. We have got law on the books that says if

:13:52. > :13:55.there is a transfer of of powers there should be a referendum. It is

:13:55. > :14:01.our law. Charles Kennedy and Paul Nuttall.

:14:01. > :14:05.Charles Kennedy, your party was having a petition demanding an

:14:06. > :14:09.in/out referendum. You must be pleased this morning? I have got

:14:09. > :14:13.long form on this. Because I was in favour of a referendum and voted in

:14:13. > :14:16.the House of Commons when I was a European spokesman back at the time

:14:16. > :14:21.of Maastricht all those years ago. I always felt that, I felt we

:14:21. > :14:24.should have had a referendum on Europe 25 years ago to try and

:14:24. > :14:28.lance this boil. We never have. Where we are now, is first of all,

:14:28. > :14:34.the one thing that is clear and it is only within the last ten days

:14:34. > :14:37.that Ed Miliband has made this all party despite what has been said,

:14:37. > :14:42.that that as a result of what we insisted in Government, the

:14:42. > :14:46.coalition Government, you have got a law on the statute book that says

:14:46. > :14:50.the future Prime Minister or Government negotiate a treaty at

:14:50. > :14:53.European Union level which involves more powers going from the UK to

:14:53. > :14:58.Brussels. There has got to be a referendum. So whatever the outcome

:14:58. > :15:03.of the election, all parties accept that and that is a guarantee.

:15:03. > :15:08.that's not an in slr out referendum. Your party at one stage was

:15:08. > :15:17.gathering a petition for an in/out referendum. You must be pleased, we

:15:17. > :15:24.Are we? The Prime Minister is not even able to answer question number

:15:24. > :15:28.one. Can you answer mind? My answer to you is that he is not putting

:15:28. > :15:31.forward an in-out referendum. He is saying if he is elected he will

:15:31. > :15:35.begin a process of renegotiation, the outcome of which he does not

:15:35. > :15:40.know, but he will put the outcome to the British people. That seems

:15:40. > :15:44.to me as clear as mud. I thought you wanted and in out referendum?

:15:44. > :15:50.When you have a referendum on Europe, as I hope we do one day,

:15:50. > :15:57.and there is a legal mechanism now it there is a future treaty.

:15:57. > :16:01.that is not in out. We know it is rather like the wording of the

:16:01. > :16:05.question to be put to the Scots. Everyone knows the question, are

:16:05. > :16:12.you for fundamentally against Europe? That is the argument and

:16:12. > :16:17.what it will become. I think this is very ill judged from the Prime

:16:17. > :16:22.Minister's point of view. What is the point of view Kip after today?

:16:22. > :16:26.-- UKIP after today. This is as clear as mud. If you want the

:16:26. > :16:30.reason why we have to be here, listen to these three. Because we

:16:30. > :16:34.do not know. If UKIP did not exist and it was not bowling where it was,

:16:34. > :16:40.the Prime Minister may not have -- would not have done this. That may

:16:40. > :16:44.or may not have been, but the Conservatives are the only party

:16:44. > :16:48.offering this. Will you run candidates in the Conservative

:16:48. > :16:51.marginals? I think we should. could result in Labour winning the

:16:51. > :16:55.marginal? It is hypothetical. You have the President of the European

:16:55. > :16:58.Commission, the President of the European Council, the President of

:16:58. > :17:01.France, the former Belgian Prime Minister, they have all said that

:17:01. > :17:06.negotiation is not on the table. But it is even more hypothetical

:17:06. > :17:09.that you would ever win an election so your only hope of an in out

:17:09. > :17:13.referendum is for the Conservatives to get an overall majority at the

:17:13. > :17:19.next election. You may not think it is a good enough promise but it is

:17:19. > :17:22.your only hope because you are not going to do it. Surely the point is,

:17:22. > :17:30.in the Liberal Democrat and Conservative manifestos, there were

:17:30. > :17:36.clear promises for referendum. There was no referendum promise.

:17:36. > :17:41.There was. You're mistaken. There was not. There was. No, I can tell

:17:41. > :17:48.you as a fact, there was not. The Lisbon Treaty had already passed.

:17:48. > :17:53.Cameron give a cast-iron guarantee. Just to be factually correct,...

:17:53. > :17:58.had already broken the cast-iron guarantee. For me because Lisbon

:17:58. > :18:02.was already past. We voted against it. -- only because. If you cannot

:18:02. > :18:06.be trusted on that, how can you be trusted on this? He gave a cast-

:18:06. > :18:11.iron guarantee that there would be a referendum on Lisbon. He broke it

:18:11. > :18:17.as soon as they passed. It had already been broken. This is about

:18:17. > :18:22.the Conservatives and UKIP politics. Cameron is running scared and

:18:22. > :18:28.worried about UKIP voters. Prime Minister has said this is a

:18:28. > :18:35.red line for any future coalition, Charles Kennedy, not that you would

:18:35. > :18:39.suspect the Lib Dems to promote it, but that he would proceed to do it,

:18:39. > :18:42.you would expect the coalition partners to abstain to allow the

:18:42. > :18:49.referendum to happen. Will the Lib Dems go along with that orders at

:18:49. > :18:52.about the possibility of a lid on coalition? -- or does that rule out

:18:53. > :18:57.the possibility of a Liberal Democrats conservative coalition.

:18:57. > :19:01.On the assumption that they would need another coalition. I could not

:19:01. > :19:09.see us signing up to that, myself, quite frankly. I can only speak for

:19:09. > :19:15.myself, because we're talking hypothetical. I think the preamble

:19:15. > :19:18.to the question reveals the immense amount of questions that David

:19:18. > :19:24.Cameron has raised for himself in this position. As opposed to

:19:24. > :19:28.providing answers with this contribution. He is now into all

:19:28. > :19:32.these hypothetical about the possible outcomes of an election, a

:19:32. > :19:36.possible coalition negotiation, Possebon negotiations in Europe and

:19:36. > :19:38.a possible referendum. He is going to have a hell of a time getting

:19:38. > :19:44.through three weeks of an election campaign without putting flesh on

:19:44. > :19:47.those bones. We will let you go, Charles Kennedy. I would suggest

:19:47. > :19:51.that our viewers may think that all four of you have a lot of questions

:19:51. > :19:54.to answer after this morning. It is not getting any clearer. Let

:19:54. > :19:59.us get reaction from the Eurosceptic Conservative

:19:59. > :20:04.backbencher, Mark Pritchard. Was it a good speech? It was. It was well

:20:04. > :20:07.considered, for for one clever in many ways. All credit to the Prime

:20:07. > :20:10.Minister. David Cameron is the first British Prime Minister to

:20:10. > :20:18.offer the British people a referendum in that format decades.

:20:18. > :20:22.It is also with an in-out option. That is considerable progress. I

:20:22. > :20:25.pay tribute to him today. He did not make it clear what is

:20:25. > :20:29.negotiating stance would be if he did not get the negotiating a deal

:20:29. > :20:34.that he wanted. Are you presuming that he would then campaign to pull

:20:34. > :20:38.Britain out? I would not presume to read his mind. Would you like to

:20:38. > :20:41.have heard? I think you raised an important question. There are

:20:41. > :20:44.challenges in the speech, not least whether Europe would allow us to

:20:44. > :20:48.repatriate powers back. Certainly there are noises out of Brussels

:20:48. > :20:56.and Paris this morning suggesting that they are reluctant to do so.

:20:56. > :21:01.That means that, yes, the question that door to the Prime Minister

:21:01. > :21:04.will be, "Prime Minister, which way would you campaign of the powers

:21:04. > :21:09.are not coming back?" so there are challenges ahead. For people like

:21:09. > :21:14.myself, who have voted for a referendum for many years ahead --

:21:14. > :21:19.past, with many other members are not left Parliament, we have come a

:21:19. > :21:21.long way. There is a consensus within the British Conservative

:21:21. > :21:27.parliamentary party. I think you are right to point out the

:21:27. > :21:30.challenges are now for the Lib Dems and the Labour Party. I think they

:21:30. > :21:35.will change their position by the time of the next election but my

:21:35. > :21:39.job is to give full support for the Prime Minister. He might be calling

:21:39. > :21:45.for a more competitive, more flexible and democratic Europe.

:21:45. > :21:52.That is a big shout. Lot of people would agree with that. -- In your

:21:52. > :21:58.eyes, what is a renegotiated the go -- renegotiated relationship?

:21:58. > :22:02.flexible, more competitive. And the more democratic Europe. But I think

:22:02. > :22:10.one of the other challengers for the next five years, does that mean

:22:10. > :22:14.that, to quote the Prime Minister, a does that mean more of the same?

:22:14. > :22:18.There are issues around border controls, whether we can start to

:22:18. > :22:23.repatriate social and employment laws and powers, trying to reduce

:22:23. > :22:27.the number of regulations. Europe may be uncompetitive. Britain

:22:27. > :22:32.should not continue to be not as competitive as it could be for the

:22:32. > :22:40.next five years. So why you supporting, would you like those

:22:40. > :22:45.powers repatriated? You agree fresh data's manifesto, an emergency

:22:45. > :22:50.brake from any legislation that affects financial services, the

:22:50. > :22:54.same with existing EU criminal- justice measures and policing. Are

:22:54. > :23:00.those you read lines? I would not call them that. Has a long shopping

:23:00. > :23:03.list and I think the fresh Start group has done an excellent job of

:23:03. > :23:06.setting out some of the areas that we would like to see returning to

:23:06. > :23:10.British sovereignty. There are challenges. The comments coming out

:23:10. > :23:13.of Europe within the last few hours, it does not bode well. But the

:23:13. > :23:16.Prime Minister is right to say that it does not mean we do not show

:23:16. > :23:23.leadership and it does not mean that we do not set out to achieve

:23:23. > :23:28.the very best for Britain. A better deal for Britain. I think it is my

:23:28. > :23:33.job to support the Prime Minister. Whilst saying that any strategy on

:23:33. > :23:37.Europe should be realistic and achievable, time will tell whether

:23:37. > :23:41.it is unrealistic or achievable. And you want those negotiations to

:23:41. > :23:49.start immediately? I do not think we should have more of the same for

:23:49. > :23:54.five years. I do nothing that is acceptable for British business and

:23:54. > :23:59.it does not help our competitors. We are being shackled by

:23:59. > :24:01.regulations and red tape and bureaucracy from Europe. Yes,

:24:01. > :24:07.support the Prime Minister but let's not wait for five years to

:24:07. > :24:12.get on and do some of the stuff. Also, if Europe is saying no to

:24:12. > :24:17.repatriating powers, we need to be more flexible with the timetable of

:24:17. > :24:26.when the referendum comes about. Finally, will this speech stock of

:24:26. > :24:30.the rise of UKIP? I think it will dent them. -- stop the rise. I

:24:30. > :24:34.think UKIP are now in a position where they will hopefully be able

:24:34. > :24:38.to support the Conservative party position. Otherwise they are going

:24:38. > :24:41.to help the Labour Party and even if the Labour Party moved to a

:24:41. > :24:45.referendum commitment manifesto, which I think they will, I think

:24:45. > :24:50.the commitment will be more fake or weaker than the strong commitment

:24:50. > :24:54.the Prime Minister has made today. -- more vague. Grant Shapps, Mark

:24:54. > :24:57.Pritchard has set out that it will be unacceptable to some of his

:24:57. > :25:00.colleagues if the strategy for negotiation does not start

:25:00. > :25:03.immediately. For a start, the interesting thing about this speech

:25:03. > :25:07.is that it unite the Conservative Party. The more interesting part of

:25:07. > :25:11.it is that I think it unites the country, who feel that things have

:25:11. > :25:15.moved a long way since the 1970s. He is said it will not be

:25:15. > :25:19.acceptable to wait five years. for some people it will never be an

:25:19. > :25:22.agreement that will be acceptable. They want to get out. Some people

:25:22. > :25:28.will have to produce but that is fine. The important thing, you

:25:28. > :25:34.cannot deny the debate is out there. People are talking about this in

:25:34. > :25:37.the streets. They want to have a proper choice. For the first time,

:25:37. > :25:40.the first time in decades, they know that this question will be put

:25:40. > :25:44.to them and they will have a proper choice. It is great that we can

:25:44. > :25:48.have the debate. David Cameron has not made it clear. What is the

:25:48. > :25:56.basis on which she will support voting yes or no in five years'

:25:56. > :25:59.time? There is plenty of time for the debate. But you have to build

:25:59. > :26:03.bridges. We know we will be on this. You want to sign up to everything

:26:03. > :26:09.that comes your way. You give away a lot of powers. That is ridiculous.

:26:09. > :26:13.He says it will dent the increases that you have made, Paul. He is

:26:13. > :26:17.confident that it will dent your rise? It will do the opposite. He

:26:17. > :26:21.is taking the debate on to our turf but is not going far enough towards

:26:21. > :26:24.the views of the British party -- British public. We will go on and

:26:24. > :26:27.win the European elections next year. He has made sure that Europe

:26:27. > :26:36.will be the centre point of the general election in 2015. We're

:26:36. > :26:39.happy about that. The French Foreign Minister, let's imagine

:26:39. > :26:45.Europe is a football club but you join but once you're in, you cannot

:26:45. > :26:54.say, "Let's play rugby". But actually, that is exactly how rugby

:26:54. > :27:04.started! Can you smell something whiffy? Perhaps a bouquet of rotten

:27:04. > :27:04.

:27:04. > :27:07.eggs, a soupcon? But there are something strained wafting across

:27:07. > :27:12.the Channel. There is something from Europe that we cannot opt out

:27:12. > :27:17.of. According to today's papers, Le Stink has been attributed to a

:27:17. > :27:20.harmless but smelly leak from a factory in northern France. Is

:27:20. > :27:25.there nothing these Europeans will not stoop to? It is getting up the

:27:25. > :27:27.collective noses of the great British public, but at least on the

:27:27. > :27:30.south-east coast anywhere. At a time like this we would like to

:27:30. > :27:35.reassure you as a public service broadcaster we will endeavour to be

:27:35. > :27:44.fragrant at all times and aromatic, or at least three from olfactory

:27:44. > :27:47.unpleasantness. -- 3. I think the scriptwriters were loaded

:27:47. > :27:51.dictionary this morning! On the contrary, you can have this sweet

:27:51. > :27:55.smelling objet d'art arriving in your home, perfumed with flavourful

:27:55. > :28:00.Romans from Darjeeling, Ceylon or, in your case, your local POW shop.

:28:00. > :28:10.It is not to be sniffed at. Will you need to do is listen to us.

:28:10. > :28:11.

:28:11. > :28:21.-- pound shop. Let's see if you can # Welcome to the cheap seats,

:28:21. > :28:35.

:28:35. > :28:45.welcome to the cheap seats, welcome # Love, Love, Love, Love all your

:28:45. > :28:50.

:28:50. > :28:58.You want to be citizens of the European Union? No! The Danes don't

:28:58. > :29:08.either. In the name of the present and in the name of the future, we

:29:08. > :29:22.

:29:22. > :29:30.And to be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug, send

:29:30. > :29:36.your answer to a special e-mail address: You can see the terms and

:29:36. > :29:42.conditions on our website: Coming up to midday.

:29:42. > :29:46.Let's have a look at Big Ben. There it is. Prime Minister's Questions

:29:46. > :29:53.just coming up shortly. It is chiming already. We are running

:29:53. > :29:54.late. Nick Robinson is with us. I'm told that the Prime Minister was

:29:54. > :29:59.cheered by backbenches -- backbenchers when he walked into

:29:59. > :30:03.the Commons. I expect he will be cheered when he stands up again.

:30:03. > :30:07.They think, the Conservatives, but they have got Labour on the run.

:30:07. > :30:10.Labour's hope is that the string of Tories that you have seen going

:30:10. > :30:15.through the studio today, is a return to the days of John Major

:30:15. > :30:20.were the Tories talk to each other about Europe. And the great British

:30:20. > :30:25.public say, "Excuse me, what about us?" I think this will be noisy and

:30:25. > :30:28.aggressive, because you are seeing today one of the defining questions

:30:28. > :30:32.of the next general election and the next five years in British

:30:32. > :30:36.politics. Who wins this argument between Cameron and Miliband will

:30:36. > :30:41.determine, quite possibly, who the next Prime Minister is. He has no

:30:41. > :30:46.choice but to go on Europe. He has to, but he will not tell us that he

:30:46. > :30:56.will back a referendum. Let's go Thank you, thank you Mr Speaker. Mr

:30:56. > :30:56.

:30:56. > :30:59.Speaker... Before answering the honourable

:30:59. > :31:02.gentleman's question, I am sure the whole House will wish to join me in

:31:02. > :31:04.paying tribute to Kingsman Robert Shaw, 1st Battalion the Duke of

:31:04. > :31:06.Lancaster's Regiment. He died in The Queen Elizabeth Hospital in

:31:06. > :31:10.Birmingham last Wednesday as a result of wounds he sustained in

:31:10. > :31:14.Afghanistan. He gave his life for the safety of the British people

:31:14. > :31:19.and his brave contribution must never be forgotten. Our condolences

:31:19. > :31:22.are with his loved ones. Mr Speaker, this morning I had meet meetings

:31:22. > :31:25.with ministerial colleagues and I shall have further much meetings

:31:25. > :31:35.today. I am sure the whole House and the

:31:35. > :31:45.

:31:45. > :31:49.whole country would want to associate themselves with the the

:31:49. > :31:52.comments associated kingsman Robert Shaw. Why is there such a gap

:31:52. > :31:56.between what the Prime Minister says and what the Prime Minister

:31:56. > :32:00.does? I think the honourable gentleman

:32:00. > :32:04.asks an important question and I do not deny for one second that we

:32:04. > :32:09.have had to take difficult decisions about defence spending in

:32:09. > :32:12.our country. At �33 billion a year, we have the fourth largest defence

:32:12. > :32:17.budget anywhere in the world and I think it is very important that we

:32:17. > :32:24.make sure that we have the right scale and shape of armed forces and

:32:24. > :32:28.they have the right capability. That's why we are investing in

:32:28. > :32:32.drones and investing more in key intelligence capabilities and

:32:32. > :32:35.making sure we have the aircraft to make sure we have highly mobile

:32:35. > :32:40.armed forces. I am proud of what our armed forces do and because we

:32:40. > :32:44.are balancing their budget, they will be better equipped for the

:32:44. > :32:54.future. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. 68

:32:54. > :32:57.years ago this Sunday the Nazi camp was liberated as we mark Holocaust

:32:57. > :33:00.Memorial Day will the Prime Minister commit to ensuring young

:33:00. > :33:09.people always have the opportunity to learn about what took place

:33:09. > :33:14.during the darkest period in our history and will he commend the

:33:14. > :33:19.work of the Holocaust Education Trust.

:33:19. > :33:23.In praising the Holocaust Education Trust. A brilliant charity and

:33:23. > :33:26.organisation that makes sure young children get the opportunity to go

:33:26. > :33:31.and see the places where the terrible events of the Holocaust

:33:32. > :33:35.took place. I had the privilege this week of meeting with the

:33:35. > :33:43.Holocaust survivor whose story was truly her owic and truly

:33:43. > :33:50.heartbreaking, but who in her 90s is making this case so future

:33:50. > :33:54.generations will learn. We should learn about happened in Rwanda, in

:33:54. > :34:00.Bosnia and Cambodia and elsewhere, there is too much prejudice and

:34:00. > :34:04.persecution in our world. THE SPEAKER: Ed Miliband.

:34:04. > :34:14.Mr Speaker... Mr Speaker, can I join the Prime Minister in paying

:34:14. > :34:17.

:34:17. > :34:26.tribute to kingsman David Robert Shaw of the Duke of Lancaster's

:34:26. > :34:30.Regiment. Mr Speaker, can the Prime Minister guarantee if he gets nis

:34:30. > :34:35.in/out referendum -- his in/out referendum he will be campaigning

:34:35. > :34:40.to stay in? This argument, this entire argument is about what is in

:34:40. > :34:44.the natural interests of Britain. We want a European Union that is

:34:44. > :34:50.more open, more flexible, more competitive. Not just good for

:34:50. > :34:55.Britain, but good for Europe too. I don't think that was quite a

:34:55. > :35:01.complete answer to my question, Mr Speaker. Let's see if we can press

:35:01. > :35:08.him a bit further about how he is going to vote. Is he saying that if

:35:08. > :35:11.he doesn't achieve his negotiating strategy he will recommend, the

:35:11. > :35:15.part-time chancellor can just hang on a minute, is he saying if he

:35:15. > :35:20.doesn't achieve his negotiating strategy, he will recommend Britain

:35:20. > :35:27.leaves the European Union? Well, first of all, he is accepting

:35:27. > :35:30.the premise that the Conservatives will win the next election. And

:35:30. > :35:36.interestingly, and interestingly, not raising the fact that the

:35:36. > :35:41.unemployment figures are down once again today. Employment is up by

:35:41. > :35:46.90,000 this quarter. And the rate of job growth last year was the

:35:46. > :35:50.fastest since 199, but I answered - - 199, but I answered his question

:35:50. > :35:54.clearly, I want to see a strong Britain in a reformed Europe. We

:35:54. > :35:57.want to reset the relationship. We will hold that referendum. We will

:35:57. > :36:03.recommend that resettlement to the British people. But the question

:36:04. > :36:13.now is for him - has he got a a clue what he would do?

:36:14. > :36:14.

:36:14. > :36:16.Mr Speaker he had - well, the clue is in the title, Prime Minister's

:36:16. > :36:24.Questions, he is supposed to be answering the questions! Now, he

:36:24. > :36:28.had six months to think about this. It is not too much to ask. The

:36:28. > :36:32.right honourable member for Rushcliffe he would say that he

:36:32. > :36:38.would vote yes in a referendum. The Children's Secretary, who is hiding

:36:38. > :36:42.away down there, he has briefed that he wants us to leave the

:36:42. > :36:46.European Union and I am just asking the Prime Minister a straight

:36:46. > :36:51.question - in the referendum can he guarantee that he will vote yes in

:36:51. > :36:58.an in/out referendum? Yes, I support Britain's membership of a

:36:58. > :37:01.reformed European Union. You don't only - only the Leader of the

:37:01. > :37:05.Opposition would go into negotiations expecting to fail. We

:37:05. > :37:11.go into negotiations knowing what is best for Britain, but let me put

:37:11. > :37:16.it to him again. We now have a very clear approach. A renegotiation and

:37:16. > :37:19.then a referendum. What is his answer? Let me tell him. He is

:37:19. > :37:24.meant to lead the Opposition and you can't fight something with

:37:24. > :37:28.nothing. Mr Speaker, I say first of all, the

:37:28. > :37:34.reason the people behind him are cheering is not because they want

:37:34. > :37:39.to vote yes in a in/out referendum, it is because they want to vote no.

:37:39. > :37:44.Now, look, he still hasn't answered the question. He still hasn't

:37:44. > :37:47.answered the question. Let's put it another way and give him another

:37:47. > :37:51.chance. We know from his speech this morning that he wants to go

:37:51. > :37:58.off and negotiate for fairness and flexibility and motherhood and

:37:59. > :38:01.apple pie in Europe, can he name one thing, just one thing, that if

:38:01. > :38:06.he doesn't get, he will recommend leaving the European Union?

:38:07. > :38:11.I don't want Britain to leave the European Union. I want Britain to

:38:11. > :38:15.reform the European Union. We have set out the whole areas where we

:38:15. > :38:17.want... THE SPEAKER: Members are shouting

:38:17. > :38:18.their heads off at the Prime Minister. They must desist. Let's

:38:18. > :38:23.hear the answers. The Prime Minister.

:38:23. > :38:29.We have been very clear about what we want to see change. The whole

:38:29. > :38:32.series of areas social legislation, employment legislation,

:38:32. > :38:37.environmental legislation where Europe has gone too far and we need

:38:37. > :38:40.to properly safeguard the single market. We want to make sure that

:38:40. > :38:46.ever closer union done apply to the United Kingdom. These are the

:38:46. > :38:49.things that we are fighting for, but let me put it to him again. We

:38:49. > :38:56.want a renegotiation and a referendum. What does he want? Or

:38:56. > :38:59.doesn't he know? So Mr Speak Mr Speaker, four hours

:38:59. > :39:07.since the big speech, he can't answer the most basic question of

:39:07. > :39:15.all! Whether He is for yes or whether he

:39:15. > :39:18.is for no? And why can't he answer is it Mr Speaker? Why can't he say

:39:18. > :39:21.he will vote yes in a referendum? Because he is frightened of the

:39:22. > :39:25.people behind him and the only thing that's changed is a few few

:39:25. > :39:29.months ago, when he said he was against an in/out referendum is not

:39:29. > :39:33.the situation in Europe, but the situation in the Tory Party. Why

:39:33. > :39:37.doesn't he admit it? He has been driven to it, not by the national

:39:37. > :39:43.interests, but dragged to it by his party.

:39:43. > :39:48.The most basic question of all is do you want a referendum? I do.

:39:48. > :39:56.Does he? Our position is no, we don't want

:39:56. > :40:02.an in/out referendum. My position is precisely the same

:40:02. > :40:07.as his position when we voted together, yeah, when we voted

:40:07. > :40:11.together, when we voted together in October 2011 against an in/out

:40:11. > :40:15.referendum. My position has not changed, it is his position that

:40:15. > :40:19.has changed Mr Speaker. And here is the truth. Six months

:40:20. > :40:29.of planning a speech on a referendum, he can't even tell us

:40:30. > :40:37.

:40:37. > :40:39.whether it is a yes or no? THE SPEAKER: I said a moment ago

:40:39. > :40:41.that members shouldn't shout their heads off at the Prime Minister,

:40:41. > :40:44.neither should members shout their heads off at the Leader of the

:40:44. > :40:46.Opposition and the questions must and they will be heard. Mr Ed

:40:46. > :40:49.Miliband. Mr Speaker, he is going to put Britain through years of

:40:49. > :40:52.uncertainty and take a gamble with our economy. He is running scared

:40:52. > :40:58.of UKIP. He has given in to his party and he can't deliver for

:40:58. > :41:03.Britain. I have politely to say to the right honourable gentleman, his

:41:03. > :41:08.whole argument about there being uncertainty is undermined by the

:41:08. > :41:13.fact that he cannot answer whether he wants a referendum or not. Can I

:41:13. > :41:18.give him a little bit of advice? He needs to go away, get a policy,

:41:18. > :41:20.come back and tell us what it is. Meantime, our approach is what the

:41:20. > :41:30.British people want, it is right for business, it is right for our

:41:30. > :41:35.economy and we will fight for it in the years ahead.

:41:35. > :41:40.Mr Speaker, around the world world 170 million people, children under

:41:40. > :41:43.the age of five are stunted so malnourished that it affected their

:41:43. > :41:48.physical and possibly their cognitive development. The world

:41:49. > :41:52.has enough food for everyone. As leading NGOs like Save The Children

:41:52. > :41:56.launch a major campaign against malnutrition, will the Prime

:41:56. > :42:02.Minister tell us what action the UK will be taking during its

:42:02. > :42:07.presidency of the G8? My honourable friend is right to raise this issue

:42:07. > :42:10.particularly as we chair the G8 and because some of the leading non-

:42:10. > :42:16.Governmental organisations launched this campaign today. Above all,

:42:16. > :42:20.what Britain will be doing is meeting the commitment we made. A

:42:20. > :42:22.commitment that we have made that we have kept whereas many other

:42:22. > :42:28.countries have broken their promises and we will be using that

:42:28. > :42:31.money to make sure that we focus on the issues of malnutrition and

:42:31. > :42:35.stunting because it is not acceptable that there is so many

:42:35. > :42:39.millions of families in the world that go hungry every day and every

:42:39. > :42:43.night. Mr Speaker the British automotive

:42:43. > :42:48.industry a world-class success story. 82% of the cars we produce,

:42:48. > :42:52.we export. Key is inward investment and key to inward investment is

:42:52. > :42:56.continuing membership of the European Union. Has the Prime

:42:56. > :43:01.Minister heard the growing voices of concern being expressed from

:43:01. > :43:05.within the industry over the prolonged ung uncertainty his

:43:06. > :43:13.speech this morning will cre kate? Does he -- create? Does he begin to

:43:13. > :43:17.recognise the damage he might do to our economy and to a sector

:43:17. > :43:24.employing millions of British workers? It is very welcome for the

:43:24. > :43:27.first time since the 1970s, Britain is a net exporter of cars. That is

:43:27. > :43:31.something to celebrate, but I don't agree with him about what he says

:43:32. > :43:37.about business. This morning, you see, the Institute of Directors,

:43:37. > :43:39.the Director-General of the CBIi, the the Federation of Small

:43:39. > :43:42.Businesses, all coming out and saying this is the right approach.

:43:42. > :43:45.Let's get a good deal for Britain. Let's reform Europe and make it

:43:45. > :43:50.more open and competitive and let's put the choice to the British

:43:50. > :43:56.people in a referendum. I welcome the Prime Minister's

:43:56. > :44:01.answer and support for ending hunger. Does he recognise the

:44:01. > :44:05.importance of the route causes of hunger? The land grabs, the use of

:44:05. > :44:10.land for biofuels and the need to make sure that investment in these

:44:10. > :44:13.countries is suitably transparent? Will he use the G8 to to seek

:44:13. > :44:18.action on these causes? honourable friend is right to raise

:44:18. > :44:22.this and I think because Britain is meeting its promises in terms of

:44:22. > :44:26.the money for aid, we are best placed to make the arguments about

:44:26. > :44:29.what I call the golden thread that are all the things that help move

:44:29. > :44:32.move countries from poverty to wealth. Making sure there is a

:44:32. > :44:38.proper rule of law, accountable, a free press, property rights and we

:44:38. > :44:44.will be making the argument in the G8. We need greater transparency

:44:44. > :44:48.about land ownership, and greater transparency about companies and

:44:48. > :44:53.greater transparency about tax. Can the Prime Minister confirm his

:44:53. > :44:57.is the first Government for 30 years, not to offer hard-pressed

:44:57. > :45:06.consumers a Government funded energy efficiency scheme following

:45:06. > :45:12.the closure of Warm Front last Because scheme is many times the

:45:12. > :45:17.size of that scheme. Warm front helped 80,000 families a year. Our

:45:17. > :45:23.scheme could help to hundred and 30,000 families here so it is

:45:23. > :45:28.potentially a better scheme. -- 230,000 families a year. What

:45:28. > :45:32.assessment as the Prime Minister made of unemployment in my

:45:32. > :45:37.constituency, and in particular what assessment has made of that

:45:37. > :45:40.there being more or women in work than ever before? The point de

:45:40. > :45:43.honourable gentleman makes is absolutely right. There are more

:45:43. > :45:47.people employed in the private sector than ever before, and more

:45:47. > :45:50.women employed in our country than ever before. When you look at the

:45:50. > :45:54.unemployment figures that have come out today, what is remarkable is

:45:54. > :45:59.that employment is up in almost every region and unemployment is

:45:59. > :46:02.down in almost every region. There is a lot more to do but clearly

:46:02. > :46:06.over 500,000 new jobs in the private sector last year, the

:46:06. > :46:13.fastest job creation rate since 1989, I think this shows that we

:46:13. > :46:16.are on the right track. Does the Prime Minister believe it is fair

:46:16. > :46:21.the press and City Council, one of the areas of highest deprivation

:46:21. > :46:25.and poverty in the country should receive a 12% cut in government

:46:25. > :46:28.funding when his own West Oxfordshire district council

:46:28. > :46:34.receives only a 1% cut? Will the Prime Minister look at this again

:46:34. > :46:37.and give Preston a fairer deal? And what I would say to the honourable

:46:37. > :46:41.gentleman is that of course local government across the board is

:46:41. > :46:47.facing a difficult funding settlement. I do not hide from that

:46:47. > :46:53.but the figures are as follows. The area Formula Grand per head in his

:46:54. > :46:56.constituency is �501, but in my constituency it is �320. I

:46:56. > :47:00.completely accept that needs are greater in different parts of the

:47:00. > :47:06.country and that is why figures are different, but I think the figures

:47:06. > :47:14.speak for themselves. May I congratulate my right

:47:14. > :47:17.honourable friend on a landmark speech. Demonstrating serious

:47:17. > :47:23.leadership of our country and leadership on the important issue

:47:23. > :47:26.of Europe. Can I invite my Right Honourable Friend to agree with me

:47:26. > :47:30.on this issue, that it is not simply the United Kingdom which is

:47:30. > :47:34.seeking to renegotiate the treaties, there is a serious imperative on

:47:34. > :47:37.those members of the Eurozone who have introduced this disastrous

:47:37. > :47:43.single currency policy into Europe which has caused economic chaos.

:47:43. > :47:46.They are the ones in need of Treacy re- negotiation, not just us.

:47:46. > :47:50.thank my right honourable friend for what he says. The point he

:47:50. > :47:54.makes is correct. There is a big change taking place in Europe

:47:54. > :47:58.because of the reforms necessary to deal with the single currency. That

:47:58. > :48:01.is why treaty change and change in Europe is coming. There is also

:48:01. > :48:04.already a big debate in Britain about our role in Europe and I

:48:04. > :48:08.think that politicians have a choice. You either walked towards

:48:08. > :48:12.that and try to shake that choice and get a good deal for Britain and

:48:12. > :48:15.make changes that will benefit all of Europe or you stick your head in

:48:15. > :48:20.the sand as the party opposite is doing and hope the whole thing will

:48:20. > :48:27.go away. Why is it the Prime Minister thinks that Scotland's

:48:27. > :48:31.referendum process is too long, but he thinks his five year process is

:48:31. > :48:34.fine. --? The it is a very easy answer which is that the Scottish

:48:34. > :48:40.nationalists, in my view, misguidedly, want to leave the

:48:40. > :48:44.United Kingdom as it is. I will be arguing right across the House that

:48:44. > :48:51.Scotland should stay in the United Kingdom. I want to see a change

:48:52. > :48:55.Europe. Then we asked the people. - - changed Europe. It is a busy

:48:55. > :48:58.morning, and I'm sure the Prime Minister will have seen today's

:48:58. > :49:01.report from the Department of communities and local government

:49:01. > :49:06.highlighting the huge savings that could be made from turning around

:49:06. > :49:11.the country's most troubled families, such as the �224 million

:49:11. > :49:14.saved by councils in Greater Manchester, acquitting to 32,000

:49:14. > :49:20.per family. They asked the Prime Minister what he is doing to ensure

:49:20. > :49:23.these lessons are made use of across the country? I do not

:49:23. > :49:27.understand why people are trying to shout down what should be a cross-

:49:27. > :49:32.party initiative to try and deal with the most troubled families in

:49:32. > :49:36.our country. There is one council that actually spent up to 20% of

:49:36. > :49:40.its budget on just 3% of its families. This is a problem

:49:40. > :49:43.affecting all local authorities across the country and I commend

:49:43. > :49:47.the approach that the Communities Secretary is taking to bring

:49:47. > :49:54.together local councils and work out how we can help these families

:49:54. > :50:00.solve their problems and reduce a major impact on taxpayers as well.

:50:00. > :50:04.The Government's welfare bill will plunge 200,000 extra children into

:50:04. > :50:08.poverty. Children in places like Liverpool are already suffering.

:50:08. > :50:11.Yet the Government wants to make the poor go away by redefining

:50:11. > :50:17.poverty. Does the Prime Minister really think he is going to get

:50:17. > :50:20.away with this? What I would say it is that actually the introduction

:50:20. > :50:26.of universal credit will reduce the number of children living in

:50:26. > :50:31.relative income poverty by around 250,000. Those are the figures. On

:50:31. > :50:35.the issue of welfare, we face a clear choice. Given that in-work

:50:35. > :50:38.benefits have gone up by 20% over the last five years compared with a

:50:39. > :50:43.10% increase in wages, we believe it is right that benefits should

:50:43. > :50:47.not continue to go up ahead of wages. I know from what Labour have

:50:47. > :50:52.done this week, great sound of fury, voting against the Bill, saying it

:50:52. > :50:57.is wrong but completely refusing to reverse it. That is the policy

:50:57. > :51:00.vacuum that we face from the party opposite.

:51:00. > :51:04.By a given a keen interest in the single market's of the Prime

:51:04. > :51:08.Minister, will look at mortgage limits restricting legal work to a

:51:08. > :51:15.small number of larger firms and depriving local practices of the

:51:15. > :51:19.work that keeps them at the heart of local businesses?

:51:19. > :51:22.We do want to see a competitive market in financial services and in

:51:22. > :51:28.conveyancing. I pick it is a major issue in our economy to get a

:51:28. > :51:32.mortgage market moving. There are good signs that credit conditions

:51:32. > :51:35.are easing, but we need to make sure they are easing for people who

:51:35. > :51:38.are trying to buy their first flat and their first home who do not

:51:38. > :51:45.have a big deposit and a lot of help from the Bank of mum and dad.

:51:45. > :51:51.We need to make sure we're on their side. In answer to the member for

:51:51. > :51:55.Scunthorpe, the Prime Minister justified these very large cuts in

:51:55. > :52:00.defence spending with 5000 troops being sacked right now on the basis

:52:00. > :52:05.that he had to face some difficult decisions on expenditure. But those

:52:05. > :52:12.decisions were made in 2010. The security risk facing this country

:52:12. > :52:18.is now much worse. As he himself has abolished in many of his own --

:52:18. > :52:22.and many of his honourable friends feared. Given those threats, is

:52:22. > :52:24.there not an overwhelming case for looking again at the Strategic

:52:24. > :52:29.Defence Review and ensuring that our troops have the numbers needed

:52:29. > :52:33.to justify our defence? I think the honourable gentleman makes a

:52:33. > :52:35.serious point. The point about the defence reviews is that they are

:52:35. > :52:40.every five years and so there will be the opportunity to look over

:52:40. > :52:44.again. What I would say to him about the level of risk, and that

:52:44. > :52:50.made this point in my statement on Monday, is that the risks are

:52:50. > :52:55.changing. We face the biggest risk from the Afghanistan area, but the

:52:55. > :52:59.proportion of the risks we face has declined. So we are able to use

:52:59. > :53:03.resources, as we drove down in Afghanistan, to cope with the other

:53:03. > :53:07.risks. But the overall point is absolutely dead yes, we're going to

:53:07. > :53:11.have a smaller regular army, although the extra reserves will

:53:11. > :53:15.mean that overall level of our army hardly changes. But they will be

:53:15. > :53:22.better-equipped, more capable, more mobile, more capable of dealing

:53:22. > :53:28.with the modern threats that we face. Can I congratulate the Prime

:53:28. > :53:31.Minister on his speech on Europe this morning? As Prime Minister has

:53:31. > :53:37.a history of going into bat for Britain and the party opposite has

:53:38. > :53:41.a history of going in and surrendering. Can I ask the Prime

:53:41. > :53:46.Minister, is not a big difference between that side and this that

:53:46. > :53:51.this side trusts the people and that side wants to deny them a say?

:53:51. > :53:55.I think my friend back makes a very important point. Frankly, the

:53:56. > :54:04.British public have seen a treaty after treaty introduced to this

:54:04. > :54:07.house, passing powers from Westminster to Brussels, and they

:54:07. > :54:11.see a big change taking place because of the Eurozone. That is

:54:11. > :54:21.why I think it is right to resettle Our relationship with Europe and

:54:21. > :54:25.

:54:25. > :54:28.then trust the people. Recent revelations show that serious abuse

:54:29. > :54:33.of powers involving blacklisting continues with the involvement of

:54:33. > :54:37.the police and security services. Will the Prime Minister order an

:54:37. > :54:41.immediate investigation into the scandal that has ruined and

:54:41. > :54:48.continues to run the lives of many hard-working men, women and their

:54:48. > :54:53.families? -- ruin the lives. I know the opposition will be raising this

:54:54. > :54:57.issue today in the debate and blacklisting is a completely and --

:54:57. > :55:00.a completely unacceptable practice. I think of the previous Government

:55:01. > :55:06.was right to make it unlawful and we have seen no evidence that the

:55:06. > :55:10.regulations are not doing their job. The company responsible was shut

:55:10. > :55:17.down in 2009, but let me say that a welcome the frankness that Labour

:55:17. > :55:24.are using on -- on opposition day debate to investigate something

:55:24. > :55:26.that went wrong while there were in office. My honourable friend

:55:26. > :55:32.insists on five excellent principles, including democracy

:55:32. > :55:35.based on national parliaments and Sue project's ever-closer union.

:55:35. > :55:40.Other member states want to go ahead with more integration and are

:55:40. > :55:45.demanding it. Last year, on the fiscal compact, they ignored his

:55:45. > :55:49.veto and went ahead, irrespective of the rules of the European Union.

:55:49. > :55:53.Will my right honourable friend tell us what will happen if by next

:55:53. > :55:59.spring they insist on going ahead with their own intended the poor

:55:59. > :56:05.souls -- intended proposals and what will he do in response? Can I

:56:05. > :56:09.thank my honourable friend for what he says? I think the Eurozone

:56:09. > :56:15.countries need to make changes to the European Union. They are

:56:15. > :56:23.changing the union to fix the currency. That is what Jose Manuel

:56:23. > :56:27.Barroso's report is about. I think that this, frankly, gives us the

:56:27. > :56:30.opportunity and the right to argue that for those countries that are

:56:30. > :56:34.not in the Eurozone and, frankly, I believe are never going to join the

:56:34. > :56:37.Eurozone, but there are changes that we would like, not just for

:56:37. > :56:41.ourselves but for a more open, competitive and flexible Europe.

:56:41. > :56:45.There is going to be change in Europe. The Eurozone countries need

:56:45. > :56:54.to make changes but we should not back off from pushing forward our

:56:54. > :57:02.agenda. Is the Prime Minister aware that there can be nothing more

:57:02. > :57:12.gruesome than to see him getting out of austerity riddled Britain to

:57:12. > :57:17.

:57:17. > :57:24.wine and dine at Davos with several hundred at millionaires who helped

:57:24. > :57:29.to create the crash? Does it confirm the theory that if you want

:57:29. > :57:32.to identify the posh boys, look at the company you keep?! A seem to

:57:32. > :57:35.remember that last year I ran into the leader of the opposition but I

:57:36. > :57:40.will leave that to one side. To be fair, I think when he sees the

:57:40. > :57:44.speech I will be making, which will be arguing that we need greater

:57:44. > :57:47.transparency over tax, greater responsibility over tax avoidance

:57:47. > :57:52.and tax evasion issues, greater transparency about companies and

:57:52. > :58:02.land issues, he may even find there are some of the things that I'm

:58:02. > :58:04.going to say that he might agree with.

:58:04. > :58:07.Will be Prime Minister cut through the relevant arguments coming from

:58:07. > :58:11.the other side of the house and give a very simple message to the

:58:11. > :58:16.British people that if we have a Conservative government after the

:58:16. > :58:18.next election, they will have their say in a referendum on Europe. If

:58:18. > :58:23.we do not have a Conservative government, we will not have a

:58:23. > :58:27.referendum. My honourable friend makes a good point. I believe it is

:58:27. > :58:31.right to resettle a relationship with Europe, to make it more open,

:58:31. > :58:34.more competitive, more flexible, to make us feel more or -- to make us

:58:34. > :58:41.feel more comfortable inside that union and give the British people

:58:41. > :58:46.the referendum they deserve. the Prime Minister confirm that 3.4

:58:46. > :58:50.million families with someone who is disabled will be worse off as a

:58:50. > :58:56.result of his benefit rating cap? Why is he making life more

:58:56. > :59:01.difficult for these families? of all, Disability Living Allowance

:59:01. > :59:06.is not included in the cap and it is not related to people's income,

:59:06. > :59:09.it is actually related to people's needs. If you look as a whole at

:59:09. > :59:13.what we're doing with the disability living allowance,

:59:13. > :59:21.overall the amount of money we are spending on disability is going to

:59:21. > :59:26.go up and knock down. My right honourable friend's admiration for

:59:27. > :59:31.the economic and political wisdom of Lord Heseltine is well known. In

:59:31. > :59:35.the light of his speech this morning, will he consider inviting

:59:35. > :59:39.Lord Heseltine to conduct an inquiry into the consequences for

:59:39. > :59:45.the United Kingdom if we lose the EU -- if we leave the European

:59:45. > :59:50.Union? I always listen closely to what Michael Heseltine says and I

:59:50. > :59:54.am a huge fan of his plans for an industrial strategy. On the issue

:59:54. > :59:56.of Europe, we have not always agreed. He was a leading proponent

:59:56. > :00:02.of Britain joining the single currency and I have always been

:00:02. > :00:04.opposed to that. Of -- on the issue of the referendum, I remind my

:00:04. > :00:10.honourable friend that an in/out referendum was very much part of

:00:10. > :00:19.his manifesto in the last election. In the interests of collision

:00:19. > :00:25.harmony, I think we will leave that to one side.

:00:26. > :00:30.A Swansea constituent of mine with a chronic medical condition tells

:00:30. > :00:35.made but he has just �20 a week to spend on food and clothing after

:00:35. > :00:40.paying his utility bills. After April, after the welfare cuts, he

:00:41. > :00:45.will have just �2 a day. If the Prime Minister believes that we are

:00:45. > :00:48.all in it together, will be agreed to review the impact on the very

:00:48. > :00:53.poorest of the welfare cuts, so that the sacrifice of my

:00:53. > :00:59.constituents are in line with us on? I will look closely at what the

:00:59. > :01:04.honourable gentleman says. Let me just makes the point that if you

:01:04. > :01:09.compare 2013 with 2010 in terms of the level of benefits, it is worth

:01:09. > :01:13.making the point that an unemployed person on jobseeker's allowance is

:01:13. > :01:20.getting �325 more this year than in 2010. A couple on jobseeker's

:01:20. > :01:25.allowance, �500 more. And out of work mother, �420 more. What are

:01:25. > :01:32.the opposition trying to week after week is paint a picture that we

:01:32. > :01:37.have unfairly cut welfare. It is simply not true. Order. Mr Richard

:01:37. > :01:42.Fuller. Health inequality in the country is persistent and damaging

:01:42. > :01:45.and recently the Department of Health announced a 5.5% increase in

:01:45. > :01:49.their allocation to local authorities for public health

:01:49. > :01:54.responsibilities and a 10% increase for Bedford. Does the Prime

:01:54. > :01:58.Minister agree that these funds will go a long way to help tap --

:01:58. > :02:05.help tackle long term health inequalities? I think my friend

:02:05. > :02:11.back makes an important point. For many years, public health funds

:02:11. > :02:16.were raided to deal with problems in the NHS, because we increase the

:02:16. > :02:26.budget. We have run France -- we have ring-fenced some of this, so

:02:26. > :02:28.

:02:28. > :02:31.that we can tackle some of these problems. The house has heard that

:02:31. > :02:38.the Prime Minister is looking forward to meeting people from

:02:38. > :02:44.national and international banks. When will you visit a Foodbank?

:02:44. > :02:48.me praise what food banks do in this country. I will point out that

:02:48. > :02:57.the use of the banks has increased 10 times under the last Labour

:02:57. > :03:00.government. He will the Prime Minister join me in paying tribute

:03:00. > :03:04.to the athletes who took part in the British transplant Games?

:03:04. > :03:14.Linked to that, well he encourage people to register for organ

:03:14. > :03:15.

:03:15. > :03:25.donation which will help save lives? I pay tribute to all of

:03:25. > :03:51.

:03:51. > :03:54.those who took part. He is right to Let me make the point that the

:03:54. > :04:02.reason we have to make the cuts is because of the mess left by her

:04:02. > :04:10.government. When it comes to helping the disabled and the

:04:10. > :04:13.vulnerable, this government... Crispin Blunt. By Pitt the Younger

:04:14. > :04:19.said that Europe was not to be saved by any single man.

:04:19. > :04:23.He went on to predict that England it would save Europe by her example.

:04:23. > :04:25.Will my right honourable friend be aware that I believe he is in

:04:25. > :04:29.danger of contradicting what impaired because his example today

:04:29. > :04:35.and his exertions over the next four years stand the best possible

:04:35. > :04:39.chance of rescuing the European Union for Europe and Britain.

:04:39. > :04:44.thank my friend back for what he says. He makes an important point,

:04:44. > :04:47.which is at the -- that the agenda is not simply saying that this is

:04:47. > :04:51.what Britain wants and if we do not get it, we will leave, it is an

:04:51. > :04:55.agenda that is good for the European Union. We face a

:04:55. > :04:59.competitiveness challenge from the countries in the south and east. We

:04:59. > :05:02.have to accept that Europe is not working properly. It is adding to

:05:02. > :05:12.the costs of business and regulation. We need to change that,

:05:12. > :05:12.

:05:12. > :05:16.not just for our sake but for the So Prime Minister's Questions comes

:05:16. > :05:22.to an end and Europe dominated the exchanges. Ed Miliband showing once

:05:22. > :05:26.again that he always watches the Daily Politics before he goes into

:05:26. > :05:32.the chamber. He took the same line that I was taking with Grant Shapps

:05:32. > :05:36.as to what would happen if we don't get a deal. Will Mr, Mr Cameron say

:05:36. > :05:39.we should leave the European Union? The Leader of the Opposition had

:05:39. > :05:44.about as much success with the Prime Minister as I had with the

:05:44. > :05:47.chairman of the Conservative Party. Mr Cameron snapped back that what

:05:47. > :05:53.was Labour's real position on the referendum. They didn't know if

:05:53. > :05:59.they were for or against one. However, Mr Miliband replied there

:06:00. > :06:04.that he said no, we don't want an in/out referendum. He said, "We

:06:04. > :06:10.haven't changed our mind." So can I ask you Caroline Flint again, the

:06:10. > :06:16.question I began with before PMQs, if you don't want an in/out

:06:16. > :06:19.referendum, vote Labour? We think our interests are better served

:06:19. > :06:24.inside the European Union so we don't support an in/out referendum.

:06:24. > :06:28.Do we think there should be reform in the European Union? Yes, we do,

:06:29. > :06:32.but we don't support an in/out referendum. There are too many ifs

:06:32. > :06:37.about what Europe will look like next year and the year after, but

:06:37. > :06:41.what Cameron caused by his speech today is a huge amount of

:06:41. > :06:48.uncertainty that cannot be in our interests at a time when we need

:06:48. > :06:54.economic recovery. So we will go into the 015 election, with the --

:06:54. > :06:57.2015 election with the Conservatives promising an in/out

:06:57. > :07:01.referendum and Labour not? reason why we don't believe in an

:07:01. > :07:04.in/out referendum because we don't know what Europe will look like

:07:04. > :07:09.next year or the year after that. The priority has to be about

:07:09. > :07:14.getting jobs and growth across the European Union and in Britain and

:07:14. > :07:21.this is a distraction. Have you just fallen into a trap

:07:21. > :07:26.that the Tories created for you? You seem less certain before PMQs

:07:26. > :07:29.than after. You have had your marching orders. I said last week

:07:29. > :07:33.on Question Time that we did not support an in/out referendum and

:07:33. > :07:37.I'm saying it today and I have said the reasons why because we we we do

:07:37. > :07:40.not believe it is in the national interests and the problem we have

:07:40. > :07:43.got is Cameron is following his party interests rather than a

:07:43. > :07:46.bigger picture issue which is Britain.

:07:46. > :07:50.Perish the thought that a pliical leader would -- political leader

:07:50. > :07:56.would follow his party interest. It will never catch on! Thank you for

:07:56. > :08:01.clarifying that. Let's go to what our viewers made of PMQs. Yes, some

:08:01. > :08:08.interesting e-mails. One viewer said David Cameron looks like a

:08:08. > :08:13.fool announcing a a proposed referendum. Steve in Exeter, the

:08:13. > :08:19.Tory Party ignoring the rest of us., "It was Pathetic last time under

:08:19. > :08:23.John Major and it is just as pathetic now." Chris says, "We

:08:23. > :08:29.don't want a referendum words uttered by Ed Miliband and words

:08:29. > :08:34.which will return to haunt him in the next general election

:08:34. > :08:39.campaign." Ian whitely said, "Ian did better than expected. However

:08:39. > :08:44.saying we don't want an referendum is an own goal and guaranteed that

:08:44. > :08:46.the Tories will give him a pasting other it.". The politics of this

:08:46. > :08:53.are interesting for the Prime Minister because there is a number

:08:53. > :09:03.of reasons I think he has gone down this road. One is he hopes to ditch

:09:03. > :09:05.

:09:05. > :09:09.UKIP. Secondly, he hopes it destabilises Labour and it is

:09:09. > :09:18.popular with his own side. If you look at what happened before PMQs

:09:18. > :09:28.when the Prime Minister entered the chamber.

:09:28. > :09:32.CHEERING I have never known I was so popular

:09:32. > :09:35.Mr Speaker! Well, you are not!

:09:35. > :09:41.We will see how long that lasts. The cheers for the Prime Minister

:09:41. > :09:46.from his own side. The Lib Dems were quiet about it. Where do we go

:09:46. > :09:50.from here? LAUGHTER

:09:50. > :09:52.We keep talking about it for a long time. I will tell you where. The

:09:52. > :09:56.the Conservatives say they have got something they can campaign about

:09:56. > :10:01.and they think that they have got Labour in a trap by saying that

:10:02. > :10:05.they are against a referendum and to my surprise not leaving wriggle

:10:05. > :10:09.room. That Ed Miliband decided not to back a referendum is not a

:10:09. > :10:13.surprise. He said to James Landale on Sunday morning on the Breakfast

:10:13. > :10:17.sofa, he said it leading up to this. What surprised me was that he

:10:17. > :10:23.didn't leave himself any wriggle room at all that just before 2015

:10:23. > :10:27.he could say, "Well, since the Germans are saying we have a treaty

:10:27. > :10:37.change, I now accept." he doesn't appear to have left himself that

:10:37. > :10:37.

:10:37. > :10:43.space. The Tories will celebrate. Orchd, Orchd -- on the other hand,

:10:43. > :10:47.the what are you promising to renegotiate? What are your

:10:47. > :10:52.benchmarks for success, Prime Minister? Because we don't really

:10:52. > :10:56.trust you on this, his own party don't trust him on this issue, he

:10:56. > :10:58.would like this written down in our manifesto so you can't change your

:10:59. > :11:02.mind after the election. The question that I asked the Prime

:11:02. > :11:06.Minister at the news conference, that Ed Miliband asked at the news

:11:06. > :11:09.conference, you asked the party chairman, which is - what if you

:11:09. > :11:14.don't get the deal that you say you want? The Prime Minister did give

:11:14. > :11:21.an answer to be fair. It was a curious and by tsar nature of P --

:11:21. > :11:25.bizarre nature where Ed Miliband said he-given an -- he hadn't given

:11:25. > :11:29.an idea and David Cameron said Ed Miliband hadn't begin an answer

:11:29. > :11:34.when he had. If David Cameron goes in and effectively says, "Look, I

:11:34. > :11:38.am going to vote yes come what may." Euro-sceptics will say you

:11:38. > :11:42.have got no negotiating hand. What will happen in the capitals of

:11:42. > :11:47.Europe, they will say, "You have lost your nerve. We know you will

:11:47. > :11:53.vote yes. Reread the opinion polls are in favour and they are moving

:11:53. > :11:58.in that direction, we will give you something." Harold Wilson got

:11:58. > :12:01.something in 1975, but it won't be enough to satisfy those people who

:12:01. > :12:05.are cross with Europe. Harold Wilson had the press cheer

:12:05. > :12:15.leading for him to stay in last time including the Tory press. This

:12:15. > :12:19.won happen this time. While watching PMQsI had little elves go

:12:19. > :12:23.into into Downing Street and they have they have e-mailed to say

:12:23. > :12:27.there are indications from Downing Street to say if Europe does not

:12:27. > :12:32.take your bid for renegotiation seriously, the Prime Minister may

:12:32. > :12:36.have to say, we leave. What's revealing about that point,

:12:36. > :12:43.Andrew is the Prime Minister was asked that question directly by me

:12:43. > :12:46.and before me by Andy Bell of Channel 5, he did not say that. You

:12:46. > :12:52.asked the chairman of the Conservative Party and he didn't

:12:52. > :12:58.reply. He was asked three times on the floor of House of Commons, he

:12:58. > :13:02.didn't say it. But the moles can say what they like. The elves have

:13:02. > :13:07.done good work. I have spent the last two weeks

:13:07. > :13:16.trying to get a definitive answer from Labour on whether they would

:13:16. > :13:19.have an in/out referendum. We got it from Mr Miliband and we had it

:13:19. > :13:24.from Caroline Flint. This is the way you will end up going, isn't

:13:24. > :13:32.it? My little elves caught a straw in the wind.

:13:32. > :13:37.I will check the elves health. are out!

:13:37. > :13:40.We need more information on your elves!

:13:40. > :13:44.I want to challenge one thing, you are trying to get going or people

:13:44. > :13:47.are trying to get going the idea that political leaders only make

:13:47. > :13:51.speeches in the interests of their political parties. If that were

:13:51. > :13:54.true and this this wasn't about the future of Britain and Britain's

:13:54. > :13:58.relationship with Europe, how would you explain the Conservative Party

:13:58. > :14:01.against its own political interests, campaigning to keep Scotland in the

:14:01. > :14:05.United Kingdom? The truth is, we don't always do things which are in

:14:05. > :14:07.the party's interests. We believe that that keeping Scotland in the

:14:07. > :14:11.United Kingdom is in the United Kingdom's interests and we believe

:14:11. > :14:14.that keeping Britain in a reformed Europe is in the United Kingdom's

:14:14. > :14:18.interests and it is about what the people of this country want and

:14:18. > :14:22.giving people a choice. It makes the point that you don't always,

:14:22. > :14:26.that political parties... What would success look like to David

:14:26. > :14:33.Cameron? The issue that will dominate discussion from now until

:14:33. > :14:37.2015. I know... We are going to move on. We are not going to leave

:14:37. > :14:46.Europe altogether, however, but Nick Robinson is sadly going to

:14:46. > :14:50.leave us. Not forever. Find out who the elves are.

:14:50. > :14:55.They have to do something when they are not making Christmas gifts.

:14:55. > :14:59.Do you fin the news depressing you further? Not on this programme!

:14:59. > :15:08.George Osborne might like it if journalists focus more on job

:15:08. > :15:12.creation than job losses. The designer Wayne Hemmingway

:15:12. > :15:22.visited the BBC's new newsroom at Broadcasting House to tell us why

:15:22. > :15:33.

:15:33. > :15:36.journalists should do more to This week according to some

:15:36. > :15:40.research, it is supposed to be the most miserable week of the year,

:15:40. > :15:45.peak with blue Monday. So perhaps it is time to reflect at why the

:15:45. > :15:50.main News Channels seem to help us concentrate on bad news stories and

:15:50. > :15:53.a seedier side of life. According to the BBC, three of the top ten

:15:53. > :15:57.most followed stories of 2012 were about flooding.

:15:58. > :16:02.At number seven, were the floods in September. As the heavy rain

:16:02. > :16:06.continued to fall, the inevitable happened. At number three, were the

:16:06. > :16:11.floods in July. At number two, were the floods in

:16:12. > :16:17.November. Of the other seven, two involved

:16:17. > :16:21.the murder of children, but another was the sinking of a cruise ship

:16:21. > :16:25.with multiple fatalities. And all the time has been the misery of

:16:26. > :16:29.Syria without any real developments for months and little hope. There

:16:29. > :16:33.can be no denying that these are are stories that need telling, but

:16:33. > :16:38.what bothers me is on the whole, stories that could move mankind

:16:38. > :16:42.forward and impact on our lives don't get the exposure they deserve.

:16:42. > :16:47.Here is a couple of stories you might have missed.

:16:47. > :16:54.In Japan, scientists managed to create eggs from mice stem cells,

:16:54. > :16:59.raising hope of a cure for human infer tilt. The US journal Science

:16:59. > :17:05.said it was one of the most important breakthroughs.

:17:05. > :17:09.A a bicycle has been developed from cardboard.

:17:09. > :17:15.If you search the internet for good news stories, there are various

:17:15. > :17:19.websites that that address this, but they don't do it justicement

:17:19. > :17:24.perhaps we need fewer crime correspondents and fewer war

:17:25. > :17:30.reporters and that way we might encourage people to go out and

:17:30. > :17:35.achieve more and put a smile on at on the faces of the people at its

:17:35. > :17:40.bus stop. Wayne Hemmingway joins us now. You complain about flood

:17:40. > :17:45.stories and you talked about Syria, but if seems to be -- but it seems

:17:45. > :17:49.to be what the public wants? Do the public want to see a reporter stood

:17:49. > :17:55.in their wellies with an umbrella up saying it is snowing. We know it

:17:55. > :18:00.is snowing! They do like it, you see. It is like saying that

:18:00. > :18:05.everybody likes, that tabloids sell more than broadsheets. If that's

:18:05. > :18:08.fed to people all the time, that's what they want. Surely we have got

:18:08. > :18:14.to look at things that make us happy sometimes rather than think,

:18:14. > :18:18."I am glad I am inside in the warmth. Or I am glad I am not in

:18:18. > :18:21.that country." It it all seems to be crass and to me it seems to be

:18:21. > :18:27.getting worse. Right. One would say in the news

:18:27. > :18:30.business that those are our and finally stories. Some of the

:18:31. > :18:34.stories that lift the news and you are saying you would like more of

:18:34. > :18:40.that? And finally seems like something that Trevor McDonald

:18:40. > :18:44.would have done in the 70s or 80s. How often do you see Will Gompertz

:18:45. > :18:49.is a good good reporter. And it feels like you might as well be

:18:49. > :18:55.saying, "Here we have a light hearted story from Will about the

:18:55. > :19:00.arts." The creative industries are the second biggest driver of the UK

:19:00. > :19:05.industry. It is worth the design industry alone is worth �35 billion

:19:05. > :19:10.and when you make the creative industries, music, art, design, TV

:19:11. > :19:14.and media and it is �37 billion.. Caroline Flint do you think it is

:19:14. > :19:19.too negative? There has been a sea change in terms of some technology

:19:19. > :19:28.stories and some creative stories coming in more forcefully in the

:19:28. > :19:32.Sometimes, there is an imbalance. I think of the Olympics, and the

:19:32. > :19:35.human stories about volunteering. It is not the people are saying

:19:35. > :19:38.they want to be cushioned in a suite world where everything is

:19:39. > :19:41.right but a think people want to have some hope about what we can do

:19:41. > :19:45.it in our communities when we come together. There was a great story

:19:45. > :19:48.the other week about a breakthrough in terms of preventing breast

:19:48. > :19:54.cancer. Again, I think people want to get a balance between the things

:19:54. > :19:57.that happen. It is not about protecting politicians, there are

:19:57. > :20:03.stories out there in communities which says something about how

:20:03. > :20:10.people can find solutions. And it is about job creations. I saw that

:20:10. > :20:16.breast cancer story on the BBC. Stories about job creation, today...

:20:16. > :20:20.Lemmy make his point. There has been a big job creation story today.

:20:20. > :20:25.By and we have reported it. public will like to know that it

:20:25. > :20:28.was on the run -- running order for today's programme at one point but

:20:28. > :20:32.it dropped off. The positive news gets drowned out. It is because the

:20:32. > :20:36.Prime Minister made the most significant speech of the collision.

:20:36. > :20:39.He drowned out his own good news. There is a dangerous thing

:20:39. > :20:44.underneath this. If we do not talk about great scientific discoveries,

:20:44. > :20:49.young people are not encouraged to become scientists. If we talk about

:20:49. > :20:55.art and design, the second-biggest private of the economy, as a story

:20:55. > :20:58.for the end of the programme, we dismiss it. The renewable energy

:20:58. > :21:02.stories are always negative. It is all was against wind farms.

:21:02. > :21:06.going to give you an opportunity, Caroline Flint and Grant Shapps, to

:21:06. > :21:09.say something nice about each other. Say something nice about the

:21:09. > :21:13.Conservative Party. Conservative Party, it is good to

:21:13. > :21:16.have democratic politics in the UK but I think -- and I think we

:21:16. > :21:19.should think ourselves lucky that we can resolve things at the ballot

:21:19. > :21:27.box and not through other means. Say something nice about the Labour

:21:27. > :21:31.Party. I agree with Caroline Flint. Actually, on a small political -- I

:21:31. > :21:34.have just done a small spot or Channel 4 are saying that all

:21:34. > :21:36.politicians across a spectrum work hard for their constituents. That

:21:36. > :21:42.applies to politicians for all parties and we are fortunate to

:21:42. > :21:46.live in a democracy where we basically work together on more --

:21:46. > :21:50.on most staff. You're only here but the clashes. Great that we got that

:21:50. > :21:55.on today. By that is enough of all that stuff.

:21:55. > :21:58.It will never catch on. Returning to Europe, we have not discussed

:21:58. > :22:01.that for a four minutes or so. David Cameron did a big speech on

:22:01. > :22:08.Europe this morning and in a moment we will get business reactions, but

:22:08. > :22:14.first, here is the German Foreign Minister firing a warning shot.

:22:14. > :22:21.With such decisive issues, as the future of our common currency, we

:22:21. > :22:30.do not need less, but more integration. We share the vision of

:22:30. > :22:39.a better Europe. We need a new commitment to the principle of

:22:39. > :22:43.solidarity. Not all but everything must be decided in Brussels by

:22:43. > :22:46.Brussels. We differentiate but cherry-picking is not an option.

:22:46. > :22:51.And that was the German Foreign Minister making a statement on the

:22:51. > :22:57.day when it was announced that Britain is now Germany's biggest

:22:57. > :23:04.global trade partner. We have just overtaken France. The Trade and

:23:04. > :23:07.between the countries has soared to 153 billion euros. -- trade and

:23:07. > :23:11.business between the countries. There we go, Anglo-German business

:23:11. > :23:19.is stronger than ever and overtaking the French. Daniel

:23:19. > :23:26.Hodson is a former Chief Executive for the City institution, Liffe.

:23:26. > :23:30.And Roland Rudd is from Business for New Europe. The Prime Minister

:23:30. > :23:34.is promising to try and get some deep-seated reforms on Europe, some

:23:34. > :23:40.of which will benefit all of Europe and some specifically Britain. Then

:23:40. > :23:45.he will put that results to the British people and he hopes to stay

:23:45. > :23:48.in on this basis. What is wrong with that? Well, I like a lot of it.

:23:49. > :23:53.I like the fact that he wants to put competitiveness at the heart of

:23:53. > :23:56.the European strategy and that, rather than full integration, is

:23:56. > :24:01.what is important. I think you'll find that the French and Germans

:24:01. > :24:06.are not that keen on the new treaty. I like his talk about a single

:24:06. > :24:16.market council. We used to have an internal market council and it

:24:16. > :24:16.

:24:16. > :24:20.emerged into a competitive ness Council. All his vision is good. My

:24:20. > :24:23.concern is we are placed into limbo land by the referendum pledge, the

:24:23. > :24:29.in/out pledge that could take place in five years' time. Most people

:24:29. > :24:31.and things three years away, so five years is a long time and it

:24:31. > :24:36.creates a huge amount of uncertainty. It is unsettling for

:24:36. > :24:41.business. That is the bit I would have preferred not to have heard.

:24:41. > :24:45.But rather than the first half, which I think is very encouraging.

:24:45. > :24:50.It is unsettling for business? is, but there are opportunities to

:24:50. > :24:55.accelerate the process. First of all, from the point of view of the

:24:55. > :24:59.People's pledge, which I represent, this is an encouraging move. We do

:24:59. > :25:03.not think it goes far enough. We think it is interesting to hear Ed

:25:03. > :25:07.Miliband's pronouncement in the House. Certainly, we will be

:25:07. > :25:12.working to try to get greater certainty on the Labour position.

:25:12. > :25:17.Were you want you that we would like for Labour to be in favour of

:25:17. > :25:22.the referendum. But the Labour leader said explicitly that he is

:25:22. > :25:30.not going to do that. That is true, but the point is that we have 20

:25:30. > :25:36.MPs off all shades -- of all shades signed up for pledge. And we

:25:36. > :25:40.believe that there are many more who will sign the pledge. There are

:25:40. > :25:45.indications this morning that there will be considerable pressure on

:25:45. > :25:49.the Labour side. Do you want an in/out referendum now? No, but we

:25:49. > :25:56.want to make sure that the campaign is going to be long and drawn out,

:25:56. > :25:58.but that it is a campaign which starts now. Based on what? In terms

:25:58. > :26:02.of David Cameron and the negotiations, people have a right

:26:02. > :26:08.to know the programme of change that he will go forward on. And

:26:08. > :26:11.therefore, what does success look like, to prevent an in/out

:26:11. > :26:16.referendum or enable the Prime Minister to come clean about how he

:26:16. > :26:22.will vote. That is not there at the moment. Going back to Roland Rudd,

:26:22. > :26:26.decent again -- you said we were last on the programme that you did

:26:26. > :26:34.not think the French and Germans want to have any more integration.

:26:34. > :26:37.Francois Hollande and Angela Merkel agreed last night to unveil a new

:26:37. > :26:43.programme of fiscal and monetary integration in May of this year in

:26:43. > :26:46.time for the June council. It is true that they want to see the

:26:46. > :26:50.progress they have made on stabilising the euro continue. And

:26:50. > :26:55.we will see other measures throughout the year that underpin

:26:55. > :26:59.that stability. You must not forget, one year ago at this conference

:26:59. > :27:06.people were saying, when will the euro break-up? Now it is conceived

:27:06. > :27:12.wisdom that it will be fine. It has passed a worse. -- past its worst.

:27:12. > :27:18.Angela Merkel is calling Mr Holland Francois. That is so close they are,

:27:18. > :27:22.first name terms. I think it is a much better relationship. Over the

:27:22. > :27:26.weekend, the French Foreign Secretary said that we're going to

:27:26. > :27:29.see more measures to ensure that the relationship continues. They do

:27:29. > :27:34.not necessarily want another treaty change for some we will see about

:27:34. > :27:38.that. Roland Rudd, thank you for joining us. Very briefly, would you

:27:38. > :27:44.be happy to see repatriation of powers? Do you think we should stay

:27:44. > :27:48.in? What I say is that I want an in/out referendum. We know that it

:27:48. > :27:51.but answer my question. The answer is as Caroline says. We need to

:27:51. > :27:55.know where the line in the sand is. It is part of a process taking

:27:55. > :27:58.place now. Well, we begun a programme without getting answers

:27:59. > :28:02.so why should we end it differently?

:28:02. > :28:07.And Astrid was the clue to our Guess The Year contest, but did you

:28:07. > :28:13.remember when it happened? -- Maastricht was the clue.

:28:13. > :28:20.Yes, it was 1992. Press the buzzer.

:28:20. > :28:25.Clive Brown of Cheshire. Well done. OK, that is it. Thank you to all

:28:25. > :28:30.our guests and special thanks to a our two guests who have been here

:28:30. > :28:33.throughout. The One o'clock News will be starting on BBC One but we

:28:33. > :28:38.will be on at 12:15pm tomorrow, slightly later because of the