30/01/2013

:00:37. > :00:41.Morning, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:41. > :00:44.Are we heading for mission creep in North Africa? The Prime Minister

:00:44. > :00:47.flies to Algeria after PMQs today. Yesterday, the government announced

:00:47. > :00:53.that hundreds of British troops are going to the region to support the

:00:53. > :00:56.French-led forces who are trying to drive Islamists from northern Mali.

:00:56. > :01:01.Alex Salmond wants to pop the question. But what should the

:01:01. > :01:05.question be? We'll be talking referendum semantics.

:01:05. > :01:09.Shock news. The streets of Britain are not paved with gold. We'll be

:01:10. > :01:13.asking how you deter migrants from Bulgaria and Romania.

:01:13. > :01:16.And defeating homophobia. The human rights campaigner Peter Tatchell

:01:16. > :01:26.tells us how we should tackle the so-called Muslim patrols of East

:01:26. > :01:26.

:01:26. > :01:36.London. Victimisation of Muslim people is wrong, so, too, is the

:01:36. > :01:37.

:01:37. > :01:44.victimisation of gay people. It should be Islamist, I'm not sure

:01:44. > :01:50.he pronounced it correctly? On Tuesday it both ways? -- can't you

:01:50. > :01:53.say it both ways? All that and more coming up in the next 90 minutes of

:01:53. > :01:56.Great British TV, and joining us for the duration are two Great

:01:56. > :01:59.British MPs. Representing one of the ancient woodlands of England,

:01:59. > :02:02.the Forest of Dean, it's the Immigration Minister Mark Harper.

:02:02. > :02:06.And representing part of the ancient city of Nottingham, famed

:02:06. > :02:14.for its links to Robin Hood and last year named transport city of

:02:14. > :02:19.the year, Labour Treasury spokesman Chris Leslie. Welcome to you both.

:02:19. > :02:25.What is transport city of the year? We have trams... Manchester has

:02:25. > :02:29.trams. In it is very green unsustainable. I like Nottingham.

:02:29. > :02:33.Some good promotion for the City of Nottingham!

:02:33. > :02:36.Now, David Cameron is to visit Algeria later today in the wake of

:02:36. > :02:40.the hostage crisis, and he's going to be talking about the importance

:02:40. > :02:43.of that country in what he's called a generational struggle against al-

:02:43. > :02:46.Qaeda in North Africa. Yesterday we learned that the UK is sending 330

:02:46. > :02:49.military personnel to neighbouring Mali and other West African

:02:49. > :02:53.countries to support French forces and to help train the Malian army.

:02:53. > :02:56.Number 10 is emphasising that troops will not have a combat role,

:02:56. > :02:59.and will be there temporarily. One MP who's warned we could be sucked

:02:59. > :03:07.into another long-running conflict is Labour's Paul Flynn, he's with

:03:07. > :03:14.us now. Before I come to you, Paul, Mark Harper, the Prime Minister

:03:14. > :03:18.said there would be tens of troops, it is now hundreds? There up to 40

:03:18. > :03:23.troops to be part of the EU training mission, a headquarters or

:03:23. > :03:29.training role. The extra troops announced yesterday, we will look

:03:29. > :03:34.at providing up to 200 troops to do training for the Anglophone West

:03:34. > :03:40.African countries that are putting together a force. Again, that is a

:03:40. > :03:44.training role. Who will protect those military personnel out there?

:03:44. > :03:49.We have said we are looking at providing up to 200, one of the

:03:49. > :03:51.things being worked through is the details now, there will be talks

:03:51. > :03:55.with the deputy national security adviser and the other countries in

:03:55. > :04:01.the region to thrash out details. It has not been confirmed that

:04:01. > :04:06.French troops will be doing the protection? Our troops will not

:04:06. > :04:10.have to protect our advisers? troops will be there in a training

:04:10. > :04:16.role, my understanding is we will not be in a protection role. Should

:04:16. > :04:21.we be there? I think so. Looking at that region, look at what happened

:04:21. > :04:26.in Algeria. There were British and other European nationals working,

:04:27. > :04:31.they were threatened and, sadly, some lost their lives because of

:04:31. > :04:35.terrorists operating in part of the area where the state did not have

:04:35. > :04:39.controlled. We were affected, whether we like it or not. Algeria

:04:39. > :04:44.is a big economy, a big gas producer, it is important we have

:04:44. > :04:48.proper security. Surely you don't object to the fact that Britain is

:04:48. > :04:53.offering a support role in a region where British personnel, Brits

:04:53. > :04:58.working in the region, could be threatened? It all sounds very

:04:58. > :05:02.plausible and seductive, very much as in 2006. We were told our

:05:02. > :05:07.soldiers would only be in Helmand province for a couple of years, do

:05:07. > :05:11.some reconstruction, no shots would be fired. At that time we had lost

:05:11. > :05:18.two thought it -- soldiers in combat, having been in Afghanistan

:05:18. > :05:21.for five years, now it is 440. There is this continuous bloodshed

:05:22. > :05:29.in Africa and we will be sucked into another war and the public are,

:05:29. > :05:34.rightly, wary. We have been in two wars, 179 troops lost in Iraq to

:05:34. > :05:38.replace one rotten government with another, and 440 troops have died

:05:38. > :05:42.in Afghanistan and at the end we will possibly have a return to

:05:42. > :05:47.Taliban rule. Are you saying no support staff to go there from

:05:47. > :05:50.Britain? I think this is one war which is nothing whatsoever to do

:05:50. > :05:56.with us. It was right to go to Sierra Leone and Kosovo as well, I

:05:56. > :06:01.think. We can't let -- pretend we are the policemen for the world and

:06:01. > :06:06.whisk billions of pounds and lives. Some of those conflicts have gone

:06:06. > :06:11.on for 20 years, in the Congo and Sudan. We can't pretend we have a

:06:11. > :06:16.responsibility and it is ludicrous to suggest that the people fighting

:06:16. > :06:21.in Mali are Al-Qaeda. They are Nationalists with a particular

:06:21. > :06:25.agenda. We will appear to have a victory but they will disappear

:06:25. > :06:30.into the population and come back as terrorists. Chris Leslie, do you

:06:30. > :06:35.agree with the worry about mission creep? You have to be clear about

:06:35. > :06:40.what this deployment is and what its terms are. Paul has a point...

:06:40. > :06:44.It was fairly clearly set out to... It is very easy to get into these

:06:44. > :06:50.situations and very difficult to know what the exit would be. These

:06:50. > :06:54.are so far non-combat training roles, that is a very good

:06:54. > :06:58.contribution. That does not mean there is no risk involved. You have

:06:58. > :07:02.to ask the questions about who will be safeguarding those troops, the

:07:02. > :07:07.people involved in this. From an opposition point of view we need to

:07:07. > :07:10.ask very searching questions of the Government. How far will your

:07:10. > :07:16.support go? Are you saying that that's it, the numbers that have

:07:16. > :07:20.gone out now in terms of support, Labour won't go any further?

:07:20. > :07:24.Hearing revelations about the situation and almost a daily basis

:07:24. > :07:29.now. I don't agree with Paul entirely, he takes a very

:07:29. > :07:33.principled view on some of these things, historically, in relation

:07:33. > :07:37.to other conflicts. From time to time, Major developed countries

:07:37. > :07:41.have a responsibility to safeguard the rest of the international

:07:41. > :07:46.community. That said, we have to be crystal clear about our role and

:07:46. > :07:50.also have an eye on the exit. years ago I wrote to Tony Blair and

:07:50. > :07:55.said if we going to the war in Iraq, without solving the

:07:55. > :08:01.Israeli/Palestine problem, we will inflame Muslim opinion through the

:08:01. > :08:06.world, and that is what we have done. But we are not doing this by

:08:06. > :08:10.ourselves. We en masse acting as the world's policeman, this is part

:08:10. > :08:15.of an international operation. -- we are not acting as the world's

:08:15. > :08:19.policeman. It will be supported by the UN and the EU. It could go on

:08:19. > :08:24.for a long time, couldn't it? is Britain playing a leadership

:08:25. > :08:30.role with our partners. The Prime Minister's point was clear. The

:08:30. > :08:33.idea that Britain and our personnel are safer by just abdicating

:08:33. > :08:39.responsibility and saying it is nothing to do with us, that is a

:08:39. > :08:43.false option. That is what it was said about Afghanistan, Gordon

:08:43. > :08:47.Brown said that all the time, it makes the streets safe a year.

:08:47. > :08:50.we had not gone into Afghanistan, Marjah mat. Doing nothing is a

:08:50. > :08:54.choice you have to make. You can't just say we will pull up the

:08:54. > :08:59.drawbridge and nothing in the rest of the world will affect us.

:08:59. > :09:03.Afghanistan has been going back to the 13th century. Prime Minister's

:09:03. > :09:08.love to be war leaders - Thatcher loved it, Blair loved it, so does

:09:08. > :09:12.Cameron. I think that is unfair. Prime ministers have to take

:09:12. > :09:16.difficult decisions about putting soldiers in harm's way and about

:09:16. > :09:20.people who might have to lose their life. I don't think any Prime

:09:20. > :09:27.Minister relishes committing troops to military action. We do it where

:09:27. > :09:31.we think it is essential for the national interest. That is what

:09:31. > :09:36.David Cameron said. None of these featured in the Strategic Defence

:09:36. > :09:41.Review. We are in a situation where the government are being driven by

:09:41. > :09:46.their fiscal austerity plans, that is affecting our capability.

:09:46. > :09:49.can't predict these things, though. No, but you need a certain amount

:09:49. > :09:54.of flexibility in our defence forces to cope with unforeseen

:09:54. > :10:00.eventualities. Should there be a vote on our involvement in Mali at

:10:00. > :10:06.all? The Foreign Secretary told me a fortnight ago that there would be

:10:06. > :10:10.a debate and a vote in Parliament, and they ignored that. The Prime

:10:10. > :10:15.Minister has been very opened, he made a statement about what

:10:15. > :10:20.happened in Nigeria. At the moment we are doing a training role, we

:10:20. > :10:24.will have to see how things... There is a strong feeling

:10:24. > :10:29.throughout the Commons that this is a war too far. On that note, we

:10:29. > :10:33.will end it, thank you. The people living in Scotland will get a vote

:10:33. > :10:36.in late 2014 to decide if they want to leave the United Kingdom and

:10:36. > :10:39.become an independent state. Sounds a simple enough proposition, but

:10:39. > :10:49.the exact wording of the question has become a matter of political

:10:49. > :10:53.You'd think it would be a simple matter, but as any pollster will

:10:53. > :10:56.tell you, it's not just what you ask, it's how you ask it. The

:10:56. > :11:00.question Alex Salmond wants to ask the Scottish electorate is, do you

:11:00. > :11:03.agree that Scotland should be an independent country? But today the

:11:03. > :11:07.body that regulates voting and party funding, the Electoral

:11:07. > :11:09.Commission, has said that this question is leading. Instead it

:11:09. > :11:15.suggests that the question should be, should Scotland be an

:11:15. > :11:19.independent country? However, the Electoral Commission has no legal

:11:19. > :11:21.power to enforce its ruling and in the end it will be the Scottish

:11:21. > :11:24.Parliament, with its nationalist majority, which will have the final

:11:24. > :11:28.say. However, the SNP Deputy First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, has said

:11:28. > :11:38.that her government would have to find a very good reason to ignore

:11:38. > :11:40.

:11:40. > :11:44.the Commission's advice. Joining us now from ICM Research,

:11:44. > :11:52.we have an expert on how to ask a question. They ask even more than

:11:52. > :11:56.me, every year, and probably get more answers! Welcome, Martin Boon.

:11:56. > :12:00.Questions, I am right in thinking that how they are phrased can make

:12:00. > :12:04.a difference to the outcome of a referendum? I think there is some

:12:04. > :12:08.evidence suggesting that. There was a very influential piece of work

:12:08. > :12:11.done by Lord Ashcroft at this time last year in which he tested three

:12:11. > :12:21.versions of a potential Scottish referendum question, and there was

:12:21. > :12:23.an eight point movements depending on which version was used. The way

:12:23. > :12:28.that you phrase individual questions can have a material

:12:28. > :12:30.impact on the outcome. Electoral Commission looked at the

:12:30. > :12:35.proposed question, I think it was proposed by the Scottish

:12:35. > :12:39.nationalists, which was, do you agree that Scotland should be

:12:39. > :12:43.independent? They want that changed too, should Scotland be

:12:43. > :12:47.independent? What is the significance of the difference?

:12:47. > :12:51.think the commission should be commended on their decision. I

:12:52. > :12:56.think there were many voices, including my own, which criticised

:12:56. > :13:02.the original Scottish question simply because it excluded two

:13:02. > :13:06.words, or disagree? To my mind, that made the question fail the

:13:06. > :13:10.test of being fair and balanced. The commission have looked at

:13:10. > :13:15.different versions of the question and have come up with a

:13:15. > :13:20.recommendation. It seems to me to be very clear, it is a short, it

:13:20. > :13:25.would be difficult to take a view from a technical perspective that

:13:25. > :13:29.many people could be confused by what it is trying to get through. I

:13:29. > :13:36.think it passes all the tests that a researcher would apply to a good

:13:36. > :13:41.question wording. Other examples from around the world are of a

:13:41. > :13:44.referendum in which the outcome was determined to by the manner of the

:13:44. > :13:48.question? I'm not an expert in referendums from other countries,

:13:48. > :13:53.you'd probably need to talk to an academic about that, but I think it

:13:53. > :13:56.has been the case that many referendums have been criticised

:13:57. > :14:00.for the questions used. I don't doubt, without having material

:14:00. > :14:04.evidence, but I don't doubt that outcomes have been at least

:14:04. > :14:10.partially influenced by a bad question framing.

:14:10. > :14:13.Find you very much Martin. Let's go now to Edinburgh and to Annabelle

:14:13. > :14:17.Ewing, a member of the Scottish parliament and a member of the

:14:17. > :14:23.referendum committee of the Scottish Parliament. Welcome. Do

:14:23. > :14:28.you accept these findings? Absolutely. We are absolutely

:14:28. > :14:33.delighted with the findings, including on the question, should

:14:33. > :14:37.Scotland be an independent country, yes or no? I think it could not be

:14:37. > :14:41.more straightforward a question, we are delighted with the findings

:14:41. > :14:45.today of the Electoral Commission. It is not the question you proposed,

:14:45. > :14:51.but you are delighted? It is a refining of the question that we

:14:51. > :14:56.had proposed, our initial question has been tested, the electoral

:14:56. > :14:59.commission have refined that and we are delighted with the final

:14:59. > :15:04.conclusion recommendation which is, should Scotland be an independent

:15:04. > :15:10.country, yes or no? We are delighted. The commission said your

:15:10. > :15:14.original question was leading and not neutral. I understand what they

:15:14. > :15:19.said was that it was a fair question, it was easily understood,

:15:19. > :15:24.and there was no evidence of any deliberate intention of partiality,

:15:24. > :15:30.but nevertheless they felt that the question they have now recommended,

:15:30. > :15:34.should Scotland be an independent country, yes or no, was a fair and

:15:34. > :15:40.straightforward question. We are absolutely delighted to accept that.

:15:40. > :15:46.Are you just putting a brave face on this? It is not the question you

:15:46. > :15:50.wanted. I am delighted with the question, should Scotland be an

:15:50. > :15:55.independent country, yes or no? I think it is very straightforward. I

:15:55. > :16:00.will mention that the electoral commission recommended that there

:16:00. > :16:04.be discussions as to what would happen in the event of a vote

:16:04. > :16:10.either yes or no, and in the event of a "yes" vote there should be a

:16:10. > :16:14.clear process agreed as to transition talks and so forth with

:16:14. > :16:18.the UK government. That was a recommendation today. Another

:16:18. > :16:28.recommendation that the SNP are very happy to accept. I think it

:16:28. > :16:36.

:16:36. > :16:40.now begs the question, what is the We are happy to accept all the key

:16:40. > :16:44.recommendations. We wanted a level playing field on the spending limit,

:16:44. > :16:48.and that has been recommended by the Electoral Commission. We had

:16:48. > :16:53.concerns about spending restraint, particularly in these difficult

:16:53. > :16:57.economic times, but we are happy that the Electoral Commission has

:16:57. > :17:01.recommended a level playing field in terms of spending limits. We are

:17:01. > :17:06.happy to accept that recommendation and the other recommendations. The

:17:06. > :17:11.question now is, will the UK government to do the same? Could

:17:11. > :17:14.you explain to our viewers, how is it that since Alex Salmond has

:17:14. > :17:22.launched the yester independence campaign in May, the support for

:17:22. > :17:28.the union has gone through the roof? Well, it would depend what

:17:29. > :17:33.pull you were looking at. Every poll. The Sunday Times poll... I

:17:33. > :17:43.can't think of a single poll, could you name a single respectable poll

:17:43. > :17:44.

:17:44. > :17:50.since May that has shown support for a referendum has arisen? G&T

:17:50. > :17:57.independence movement did not -- the anti independence movement did

:17:57. > :18:01.not achieve above 50% in that poll. We now need to put forward the

:18:01. > :18:06.arguments for Scotland controlling her own affairs. It would be a

:18:06. > :18:10.debate won on the arguments. We have the arguments on our side, and

:18:10. > :18:15.I am confident that we will gain the support of the people of

:18:15. > :18:18.Scotland in the referendum in response to the question, should

:18:18. > :18:23.Scotland be an independent country? And on the issue of substance,

:18:23. > :18:27.which is Scotland's position in the European Union, but any Yes vote in

:18:27. > :18:32.a referendum, do you now accept, contrary to what your party had

:18:32. > :18:39.been claimed until late last year, that it is by no means a foregone

:18:39. > :18:41.conclusion that Scotland would automatically stayed in the EU?

:18:41. > :18:45.light of the Prime Minister's announcement last week on that

:18:45. > :18:49.issue, we have seen that the only way for Scotland to be assured of

:18:49. > :18:55.remaining a member state of the European Union is to vote Yes in

:18:55. > :19:00.the referendum. But that was not my question, as you well know. Your

:19:00. > :19:04.party told us that there was no question that if Scotland went

:19:04. > :19:08.independent, it would automatically stay in the European Union. No

:19:08. > :19:13.debate, no problem. Do you now accept that that was not true and

:19:13. > :19:18.that there is at the very least a major question mark over Scotland's

:19:18. > :19:22.status, post-independence? It has always been clear that Scotland

:19:22. > :19:28.would negotiate its terms as an independent member state of the EU

:19:28. > :19:34.from the basis of being currently a member state. We have been part of

:19:34. > :19:39.the European Union for 40 years. But you are not a member state.

:19:39. > :19:44.Scotland is not a member state of the European Union.

:19:44. > :19:51.Mr Barroso, the president, will not see you. Has he seen you yet in

:19:51. > :19:56.Edinburgh to talk to you? Scotland is of course part of a member state.

:19:56. > :20:03.But you want to change that! have been part of the European

:20:03. > :20:07.Union for some 40 years. As for the president of the commission, they

:20:07. > :20:11.have made it clear this week that they don't take a particular view

:20:11. > :20:15.on Scotland at the moment, because no request for an opinion has been

:20:15. > :20:19.made by the current member state government, the UK. We have made it

:20:19. > :20:22.clear that we would be happy to make a joint approach to the

:20:22. > :20:26.European Commission with the UK government to obtain a legal

:20:26. > :20:30.opinion, but the UK government had refused to do that. It is a

:20:30. > :20:35.question you should put to them. And I will, but it is also because

:20:35. > :20:38.Mr Barroso will not see you. He and the foreign minister of Spain have

:20:39. > :20:44.said, if you go independent and you want to be a member of the EU, get

:20:44. > :20:48.to the back of the queue. Having worked in Brussels for many years,

:20:48. > :20:58.I don't think that is how it would pan out. We are remember of the

:20:58. > :21:04.European Union. But you are not a member of the European Union.

:21:04. > :21:12.Scotland is not a member. territory of Scotland is part of

:21:12. > :21:19.the European Union. That is because it is part of the United Kingdom,

:21:19. > :21:22.and you want to change that. That is the reason for your referendum.

:21:22. > :21:25.Well, it is clear in terms of what is happening south of the border

:21:25. > :21:30.that the only certainty on this issue is for the people of Scotland

:21:30. > :21:33.to vote yes, because otherwise, there is a danger that the

:21:33. > :21:38.political machinations south of the border will take Scotland out of

:21:38. > :21:42.the European Union. I think most Scots would prefer to be inside the

:21:42. > :21:48.club rather than outside, and that is a position which will become

:21:48. > :21:51.clearer in the months ahead. It is always good to be in the club.

:21:52. > :21:56.Let me ask you, why doesn't the British Government go to Brussels

:21:56. > :22:02.on Mr Barroso's invitation and establish this once and for all?

:22:02. > :22:07.What would the legal position of Scotland B, post-independence?

:22:07. > :22:11.think it is clear. It is clear that Scotland would not be a member

:22:11. > :22:15.state. It would have to apply. Annabel did not want to go there

:22:15. > :22:19.because if it applies, it would have to join the euro and it would

:22:19. > :22:22.have to join the Schengen regime. That would mean we would have DA

:22:22. > :22:32.border controls and immigration controls between England and

:22:32. > :22:32.

:22:32. > :22:40.Scotland, which would be in nobody's interest. The Scots could

:22:40. > :22:45.not negotiate. They would have to negotiate that like all member

:22:45. > :22:51.states? It is a complicated issue. Some legal authorities say Scotland

:22:51. > :22:55.should and would remain part of the EU without a separate negotiation.

:22:55. > :22:58.A letter from Mr Barroso is not enough. Is it not incumbent on the

:22:58. > :23:03.British Government to go to Brussels, raised it with the legal

:23:03. > :23:07.authorities and get a definitive opinion? No, I think it is the

:23:07. > :23:12.Scottish government that wants to have an independent Scotland. It is

:23:12. > :23:15.up to them to explain what would happen. But Brussels will not talk

:23:15. > :23:19.to them because they are not a nation state member. You are.

:23:19. > :23:22.need to set out what they think would happen if there was a yes

:23:22. > :23:27.vote in the referendum and the people of Scotland decided to be

:23:27. > :23:31.independent. It is for them to answer these questions. A but

:23:31. > :23:36.Brussels will not speak to them. will set out what we think the

:23:36. > :23:41.benefits of Scotland being part of the UK are. She can't answer those

:23:41. > :23:45.questions. Are you happy with the question now? Are well, they have

:23:45. > :23:52.to accept the Electoral Commission's view. You can't be a

:23:52. > :23:57.referee and a player in the campaign. But it is a bit of a slap

:23:57. > :24:01.in the face for the SNP. But she was delighted.

:24:01. > :24:05.A knowledge of history is everything, according to Mark

:24:05. > :24:12.Harper's team at the Home Office. They have just revised the UK

:24:12. > :24:16.citizenship test to focus on what they call Britain's greats. Nelson,

:24:17. > :24:21.Churchill, Pippa Middleton. So can you integrate yourself into British

:24:21. > :24:25.society by answering our own political history test? Yes, it is

:24:25. > :24:30.time for guess the year again. Our prize is more valuable than a mere

:24:31. > :24:34.British passport, more worthy than a work permit. And Our Price is

:24:34. > :24:40.more patriotic. What could be more traditional than a beverage utensil

:24:40. > :24:45.from Britain's finest institution, the BBC, filled with Britain's

:24:45. > :24:50.finest Wood, invention, T. No matter that the Chinese claim to

:24:50. > :24:54.have got there first. It is the drink that built an empire, and you

:24:54. > :24:58.can be part of our great island story and so are but a thousand

:24:58. > :25:04.years of history, one sip at a time. But only if you passed the Daily

:25:04. > :25:09.Politics citizenship test, otherwise known as guess the year.

:25:09. > :25:19.We will remind you how to enter in a minute, but let's see if you can

:25:19. > :25:24.

:25:24. > :25:34.It is an insult to the unemployed to suggest that a man who doesn't

:25:34. > :25:34.

:25:34. > :26:25.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 51 seconds

:26:25. > :26:30.have a job is likely to break the To be in with a chance of winning a

:26:30. > :26:35.Daily Politics mug, send your answer to our special quiz e-mail

:26:35. > :26:44.address. You concede the full terms and conditions for guess the year

:26:44. > :26:54.on our website. It is coming up to midday. Let's

:26:54. > :26:54.

:26:54. > :26:58.look at Big Ben. Our studio clock is usually wrong! Prime Minister's

:26:58. > :27:03.Questions are on their way. The BBC's deputy political editor is

:27:03. > :27:08.here, fresh from his starring role in the Marshall. David Cameron is

:27:08. > :27:17.off to Africa after PMQs. First, let's take a gander at this little

:27:17. > :27:21.number from the Taiwanese outfit, Next Media Animation.

:27:21. > :27:25.Tory leaders are dissatisfied with David Cameron's leadership and the

:27:25. > :27:32.drubbing the Conservative Party is taking in the polls. According to

:27:32. > :27:42.media reports, millionaire MP Adam has sensed an opportunity and is

:27:42. > :27:49.

:27:49. > :27:53.putting too at David Cameron. -- plotting to oust David Cameron.

:27:54. > :28:03.A vote of no confidence would require support from 46 party

:28:04. > :28:12.

:28:12. > :28:22.Is there an unannounced third candidate? Does anyone in Taiwan

:28:22. > :28:23.

:28:23. > :28:27.know what that was about? They are quite obsessed. Why can we at the

:28:27. > :28:32.BBC not afford graphics like that? Instead, it is like Blue Peter 30

:28:32. > :28:39.years ago here. Nothing wrong with Blue Peter. I have got a Blue Peter

:28:39. > :28:44.badge. Is there a stalking horse? will not answer that until you tell

:28:44. > :28:49.me what you have a Blue Peter badge for? I gave an interview to Blue

:28:49. > :28:57.Peter ones, and they gave me a badge instead of a fee. I and who

:28:57. > :29:01.did the interview, the dog? there a stalking horse? There are

:29:01. > :29:04.Conservative MPs who are unhappy with David Cameron. Many of them

:29:04. > :29:09.have been unhappy with him for a long time and are thinking about

:29:09. > :29:13.what may or may not happened after 2015. The new fact is that there is

:29:13. > :29:17.a growing number of MPs who are beginning to think it is possible

:29:17. > :29:20.the Conservative Party might not win the next general election. They

:29:20. > :29:25.are coming together and thinking about what might happen after 2015,

:29:25. > :29:32.so people are jockeying for position. If I understand that Mr

:29:32. > :29:36.Cameron is not a good block with favours among the Tory backbenchers.

:29:36. > :29:40.But with the referendum speech, he made them happier than they have

:29:40. > :29:44.been for a long while. So why would anybody announce a threat to his

:29:44. > :29:50.leadership just when he has done something they have been desperate

:29:50. > :29:53.for him to do for ages? It seems an inopportune moment. Even the

:29:53. > :30:01.closest supporters of the calendar would have meant that last weekend

:30:01. > :30:08.was not the best moment for this to become public. That is what we call

:30:08. > :30:11.British understatement. However, the argument is this. When David

:30:11. > :30:17.Cameron ceases to be leader of the Conservative Party, they don't want

:30:17. > :30:21.it to be an automatic Boris Sheerin. They want a potential candidate

:30:21. > :30:25.from the back benches who is not tainted by coalition, who is not an

:30:25. > :30:33.Old Etonian, who has a good rags- to-riches narrative. That is my

:30:33. > :30:39.strongest pitch for what some MPs believe. But why it Adam, who has

:30:39. > :30:43.never been in the Cabinet and is unknown in the country. Why has it

:30:43. > :30:53.coalesced around him? We are talking a small group of people

:30:53. > :30:55.

:30:55. > :31:01.here. A handful is the best description. I think the reason it

:31:01. > :31:06.has come around him is because he ticks those boxes. He is not

:31:06. > :31:11.coalition, he has a rags-to-riches narrative story. I hate to use this

:31:11. > :31:21.phrase, but some people do - the colour of his skin, there are

:31:21. > :31:24.

:31:24. > :31:27.references to Obama and all those I had meetings with ministerial

:31:27. > :31:29.colleagues and others, and in addition to my duties in the house

:31:29. > :31:34.I will have further such meetings today.

:31:34. > :31:40.Is it right that a mother in my constituency may not, because of

:31:40. > :31:45.his Government's bedroom tax confirmed by his minister, be able

:31:45. > :31:49.to provide for her son serving in the armed forces a whole MORI

:31:49. > :31:53.bedroom when he returns? reforms to housing benefit we are

:31:53. > :31:56.putting in place, and I would gladly look at the case that the

:31:56. > :32:01.honourable lady says, but the reforms we are putting in place

:32:01. > :32:04.have a very clear principle at their heart. There are many people

:32:04. > :32:09.and thought -- in private rented accommodation who do not have

:32:09. > :32:14.Housing Benefit, who cannot afford extra bedrooms, we need to get

:32:14. > :32:20.control of housing benefit. We are spending �23 billion on housing

:32:20. > :32:24.benefit and we have to get that under control.

:32:24. > :32:30.Does my right honourable friend welcome today's news that

:32:30. > :32:35.university applications for UK universities are up 3.5% this year,

:32:35. > :32:39.their highest ever level for disadvantaged students as well?

:32:39. > :32:44.makes a very important point about the figures released this morning.

:32:44. > :32:47.After all of the concerns expressed about the new way of paying for

:32:47. > :32:52.university finance reducing the number of students applying to

:32:52. > :32:57.university, the number of 18 year- olds has gone up and it is now

:32:57. > :33:05.level with where it was in 2011, which is higher than any year under

:33:05. > :33:09.the last Labour government. Miliband!

:33:09. > :33:14.In October, the Prime Minister told me that when it came to the economy,

:33:14. > :33:19.I quote, the good news will keep coming. After last week's growth

:33:19. > :33:22.figures it obviously has not. What is his excuse this time? A as the

:33:22. > :33:29.right honourable gentleman nose, GDP in the third quarter of last

:33:29. > :33:32.year went up by 0.9%, and as forecast by the Office of budget

:33:32. > :33:38.runs -- Office of Budget Responsibility 8 fell in the 4th

:33:38. > :33:41.quarter by 0.3%. Only Honourable Members opposite could it cheer for

:33:41. > :33:45.that news. I think that honourable gentleman should listen to the

:33:45. > :33:50.Governor of the Bank of England who said, our economy is recovering

:33:50. > :33:56.more slowly than we might wish, but we are moving in the right

:33:56. > :34:00.direction. The fall in unemployment numbers clearly backs that up.

:34:00. > :34:05.an extraordinarily complacent answer from the Prime Minister. Let

:34:05. > :34:11.us understand the scale of his failure on growth. They told us in

:34:11. > :34:16.autumn 2010 mad by now the economy would have grown by over 5%. Can

:34:16. > :34:20.the Prime Minister tell us by how much the economy has actually grown

:34:20. > :34:24.since then? There is nothing complacent about this Government,

:34:24. > :34:32.that is why we are cutting corporation tax, investing in

:34:32. > :34:36.enterprise zones, a million ends up -- internships have started. -- a

:34:36. > :34:40.million apprenticeships have started. There will be 1 million

:34:41. > :34:46.new private sector jobs. In the last year alone, half a million

:34:46. > :34:50.private sector jobs, the fastest rate of job creation since 1989. Do

:34:50. > :34:57.we need to do more to get the banks lending and businesses investing?

:34:57. > :35:01.Yes, and under this Government we will. Just for once, why doesn't he

:35:01. > :35:06.give a straight answer to a straight question? Growth was not

:35:06. > :35:10.5%, as he forecast, but the part- time Chancellor is about to give

:35:10. > :35:14.him some advice, I have to say to the part-time Chancellor you should

:35:14. > :35:19.spend more time worrying about our economy and less time worrying

:35:19. > :35:26.about diverting high-speed rail routes away from his constituency.

:35:26. > :35:36.We have had Flat lining... He shakes his head, but what does his

:35:36. > :35:38.

:35:38. > :35:42.council leader say? Your MP... Ennis, you are a distinguished,

:35:42. > :35:48.practising barrister. You wouldn't have behaved like that in the

:35:48. > :35:58.courts, don't behave like that in this chamber. Calm yourself and be

:35:58. > :35:58.

:35:58. > :36:02.quiet, ma'am. Mr Ed Miliband. Growth was not 5% but 0.4%, and a

:36:02. > :36:07.Flat lining economy means that living standards are falling. His

:36:07. > :36:12.excuse is that other countries have done worse than us, can he confirm

:36:12. > :36:19.that since the spending review more than two years ago, out of 20 major

:36:19. > :36:24.G20 economies, Britain has been 18th out of 20 for growth? On high-

:36:24. > :36:27.speed rail, which goes right through the middle of the

:36:27. > :36:31.Chancellor's constituency, we are proud of the fact that this

:36:31. > :36:35.Government has taken the decision to invest, just as this Government

:36:35. > :36:42.is building CrossRail, the biggest construction plan anywhere in

:36:42. > :36:47.Europe. He asks about other European economies, the fact is if

:36:47. > :36:51.you listen to the European Union, the OECD or the IMF, they all point

:36:51. > :36:56.out that Britain will have the fastest growth of any major economy

:36:56. > :37:01.in Europe this year. I have to last, what is his plan? It is a three-

:37:01. > :37:05.point plan - more spending, more borrowing, more debt, exactly the

:37:05. > :37:10.things that got us into this mess in the first place. We have got

:37:10. > :37:15.used to that kind of answer from the Prime Minister. He promises a

:37:15. > :37:20.better tomorrow and tomorrow never comes. That is the reality. He

:37:20. > :37:26.could not deny the fact that we are 18th out of 20 countries, worse

:37:26. > :37:30.than the USA, Canada, Germany, France. That is because of his

:37:30. > :37:35.decisions. Last week the chief economist of the IMF said this, if

:37:35. > :37:39.things look bad at the beginning of 2013, which they do, and he was

:37:39. > :37:45.talking about the UK, then there should be a reassessment of fiscal

:37:45. > :37:49.policy. After two years of no growth, can the Prime Minister tell

:37:49. > :37:54.us whether he thinks he should do anything differently in the next

:37:54. > :38:00.two years? First of all, I would say he should listen to the

:38:00. > :38:07.managing director of the IMF, who said this: When I think back myself

:38:07. > :38:12.to make 2010 when the UK deficit was a 20% - when you were in

:38:12. > :38:14.Arthur's! - and I tried to imagine what the situation would be like

:38:14. > :38:20.today it knows such fiscal consolidation programme had been

:38:20. > :38:25.decided, I shiver. That is what the IMF says about the plans of the

:38:26. > :38:29.last Labour government. He raises the issue of growth. Order. It is

:38:29. > :38:32.not acceptable to shouts down either the Prime Minister or the

:38:32. > :38:37.leader of the opposition, and the public have a very low opinion of

:38:37. > :38:43.that kind of behaviour. Let's hear the questions and the answers.

:38:43. > :38:46.Prime Minister. He raises the issue of America and American Growth, the

:38:46. > :38:50.fact is that I our recession was longer and deeper than the

:38:50. > :38:56.recession in America. The biggest banking bust was not an American

:38:56. > :38:59.bank, it was a British bank. He may want to talk about tomorrow because

:38:59. > :39:03.he does not want to talk about yesterday when the two people

:39:03. > :39:06.responsible for the regulation of the banks and the performance of

:39:06. > :39:12.the economy are sitting right there on the opposition benches.

:39:12. > :39:16.Once again, a completely incomprehensible answer, Mr Speaker.

:39:16. > :39:21.Basically, the answer you did not want to give is that it is more of

:39:21. > :39:27.the same, more of the same. That is not working. He mentions borrowing,

:39:27. > :39:32.he is borrowing �212 billion more than he promised. Last week he told

:39:32. > :39:39.the country in a party political broadcast that he was, I quote,

:39:39. > :39:43.paying down Britain's debts. But the debt is rising and he has

:39:43. > :39:48.borrowed �7.2 billion more so far this year compared to last year.

:39:48. > :39:54.One to just admit it is hurting but it just is not working? -- one to

:39:54. > :39:59.just admit? If he thinks there is a problem with borrowing, why does he

:39:59. > :40:05.want to borrow more? The Institute for Fiscal Studies says that

:40:05. > :40:09.Labour's plans would basically adds �200 billion to Britain's borrowing.

:40:09. > :40:13.He has made absolutely no apology for the mess they made of the

:40:13. > :40:17.economy, his whole message to the British people is give the car keys

:40:17. > :40:21.back to the people who crashed the car in the first place. They didn't

:40:21. > :40:29.regulate the banks, they built up the debts, we are clearing up the

:40:29. > :40:33.mess that he made! He is borrowing for failure, that is the reality.

:40:33. > :40:37.And he is borrowing more for failure, that is the reality of his

:40:37. > :40:42.record will stop here is the truth, they said they would balance the

:40:42. > :40:47.books, they hadn't. They said there would be growth, there isn't. They

:40:47. > :40:51.said Britain is out of the danger zone, it is not. Hasn't you run out

:40:51. > :40:57.of excuses for the fact that, on his watch, because of his decisions,

:40:57. > :41:00.this is the slowest recovery for 100 years? He talks about failure,

:41:00. > :41:05.we are dealing with year after year of failure from the party opposite.

:41:05. > :41:09.They did not regulate the banks, they built up the debts, they had a

:41:09. > :41:14.totally unbalanced economy. What is happening under this Government is

:41:14. > :41:19.a million private sector jobs, unemployment down, the fastest rate

:41:19. > :41:22.of business creation in recent history, we are clearing up the

:41:22. > :41:26.mess they made. They are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past

:41:26. > :41:30.because they have not learned the lessons, which is why the British

:41:30. > :41:35.public will never trust them with the economy again. Mr Andrew

:41:35. > :41:43.Griffiths! Like the Prime Minister, I want to

:41:43. > :41:47.see a fresh settlement in Europe. German beer drinkers pay 13 times

:41:47. > :41:51.more duty than British drinkers, Spanish drinkers... British

:41:51. > :41:58.drinkers pay nine times more duty than Spanish drinkers and 10 times

:41:58. > :42:03.more than Italian drinkers. Will he take the Chancellor for a pint and

:42:03. > :42:09.do something for British pubs and British publicans? My honourable

:42:09. > :42:13.friend quite rightly speaks up for Burton, and I remember visiting

:42:13. > :42:17.that great brewery with him during the last election. I am sure the

:42:17. > :42:21.Chancellor will have listened very carefully to what he said. It is

:42:21. > :42:26.very important we also tried to support the pub trade in our

:42:26. > :42:31.country, and the government has plans for that as well.

:42:31. > :42:34.Thousands of my Blackpool constituents in poorly insulated

:42:34. > :42:39.homes fear sky-high cold-weather bills. The Government Green deal

:42:39. > :42:47.has 7% interest charges with only five households signed up for it.

:42:47. > :42:50.How has the Prime Minister achieve this fiasco? I hope he will welcome

:42:50. > :42:55.the Green deal, it gives house holds the opportunity to cut bills

:42:55. > :43:01.and costs without absolutely no upfront costs. He should be

:43:01. > :43:06.encouraging his constituents to do that. It has only just begun. The

:43:06. > :43:10.energy company obligation also provides the opportunity to help

:43:10. > :43:14.insulate some 230,000 homes to be compared with 80,000 under Warm

:43:14. > :43:21.Front. Instead of talking down these schemes, he should encourage

:43:21. > :43:25.his constituents to take them up. Mr Adrian Sanders. Two men have

:43:25. > :43:29.drowned in stormy seas off Torquay in separate incidents this week,

:43:29. > :43:33.despite best efforts of brave lifeboat crews and the co-

:43:33. > :43:36.ordination of the coastguard. How can the Prime Minister reassure

:43:36. > :43:41.local fishermen, who pay significant amounts of duty on

:43:41. > :43:47.taxes on their patch, that if the coastguard station is closed, the

:43:47. > :43:51.risks they take will not increase? He makes an important point, and it

:43:51. > :43:56.is a good moment to pay tribute to the closed garden to the incredible

:43:57. > :44:01.work, the very difficult and dangerous work, that they do. It

:44:01. > :44:04.has not been about reducing the number of boats are active stations,

:44:04. > :44:12.it is about the co-ordination centres and where they are best

:44:12. > :44:15.located. That is an important point to make. Dave Watts. Why is it the

:44:15. > :44:20.case that the Prime Minister is frightened to go and visit a food

:44:20. > :44:26.bag? Could it be that if he visited one he would see the heartless

:44:26. > :44:31.Britain that he is creating? Only after there was discussing with the

:44:31. > :44:36.person who runs the foodbank in my constituencies, which I will be

:44:36. > :44:39.visiting very shortly. He pointed out to me it was established five

:44:39. > :44:45.years ago and it is worth remembering that food bank used

:44:45. > :44:48.went up 10 times under the last Labour government. I think instead

:44:48. > :44:55.of criticising people who run third banks we should be thanking them

:44:55. > :44:59.for the work they do. I am sure the Prime Minister will

:44:59. > :45:04.join me in praising all those who work in the search and rescue

:45:04. > :45:08.Service. Can I ask the Prime Minister to intervene personally in

:45:08. > :45:13.our battle to save the Portland search-and-rescue helicopter and

:45:13. > :45:17.ask his ministers to come down to Dorset to listen to those who work

:45:17. > :45:22.in his life savings service before it is cut? Repeated requests have

:45:22. > :45:32.so far been ignored and I would have four-day visit would be the

:45:32. > :45:41.

:45:41. > :45:47.This is a good opportunity to pay tribute to the search and rescue

:45:47. > :45:51.services across the country. Hour reforms aimed to improve response

:45:51. > :45:58.times by 20%. I am sure the ministers will listen to what he

:45:58. > :46:03.said. Prime minister, since you came into office, unemployment in

:46:03. > :46:08.Dumfries and Galloway has risen by over 15% and youth unemployment has

:46:08. > :46:14.risen by 9%. My right honourable friend has made reference to your

:46:14. > :46:18.words in respect of "good news will keep coming". Would the Prime

:46:18. > :46:22.Minister be good enough to explain to a house and my constituents

:46:22. > :46:28.exactly what is his definition of good news, especially in view of

:46:28. > :46:32.the economy that shrank at the end of last year, and that that will

:46:32. > :46:38.lead to further economic failure? If you look at Scotland, in

:46:38. > :46:41.Scotland unemployment has fallen by 14,000 this quarter. It has fallen

:46:41. > :46:50.by 10,000 since the general election. The number of people

:46:50. > :46:53.employed in Scotland has gone up. We have raised the tax thresholds,

:46:53. > :47:01.so 180,000 people in Scotland have been taken out of income tax

:47:01. > :47:04.altogether. There is more to do, but that represents progress.

:47:04. > :47:09.Syria, it is now clear that the Syrian people would be better off

:47:09. > :47:12.if China and Russia had not blocked effective action authorised by the

:47:12. > :47:17.United Nations. Can my right honourable friend say what we are

:47:17. > :47:20.doing to try to help the people of Syria? My right honourable friend

:47:20. > :47:25.the International Development Secretary has visited the Syrian

:47:25. > :47:28.border and senior refugee camps for herself. I believe Britain is the

:47:28. > :47:32.second-largest donor for aid and help into those refugee camps. He

:47:32. > :47:36.is right to say that one of the biggest things that could happen is

:47:36. > :47:39.for the Chinese and Russians to reconsider their positions and

:47:39. > :47:43.recognise that transition at the top of Syria would be good for the

:47:43. > :47:46.whole of that part of the world, and good for Russia as well. We

:47:46. > :47:51.should work with the opposition groups in Syria to put pressure on

:47:51. > :47:57.the regime, not least through sanctions, and also provide aid and

:47:57. > :48:01.help for those who are fleeing it. There is a school of technology

:48:01. > :48:05.that serves a growing population in some of the most deprived wards in

:48:05. > :48:08.the country. It is dilapidated and in need of replacement. Will the

:48:08. > :48:14.Prime Minister acknowledge that the real reason for the latest delay in

:48:14. > :48:17.the proposed PFI funded scheme in my constituency and others is

:48:18. > :48:23.because the banks, who have continued to pay themselves huge

:48:23. > :48:28.bonuses, refused to lend the money on the 25 year term demanded by his

:48:28. > :48:38.Education Secretary? Will he speak in plain language, may be in Latin,

:48:38. > :48:41.to the Education Secretary? We need a new school. I will leave the

:48:41. > :48:46.Latin to the mayor of London, but I will certainly have a word with the

:48:46. > :48:51.Education Secretary. If you look at school capital budgets as a whole,

:48:51. > :48:54.they are equivalent to what the previous Labour government did in

:48:54. > :48:58.its early terms. In terms of the banks, the funding for lending

:48:58. > :49:02.scheme from the Bank of England, the evidence shows that that is

:49:02. > :49:06.having an effect on lowering interest rates. We are reforming

:49:06. > :49:10.PFI, but we are also offering infrastructure guarantees, which

:49:10. > :49:14.the Treasury has never done before, to help projects go ahead.

:49:14. > :49:18.nothing is more important in early years education than the people

:49:18. > :49:22.delivering it. Does the Prime Minister agree that raising the bar

:49:22. > :49:26.and elevating their status will add prestige to the profession and give

:49:26. > :49:30.children the best possible start in life? Are my honourable friend is

:49:30. > :49:34.right. I pay tribute to what the Department of Education at produce

:49:34. > :49:39.yesterday in terms of a series of proposals to expand the

:49:39. > :49:43.availability and affordability of child care, while also making sure

:49:43. > :49:46.there is a quality offer that. If we look across Europe and see

:49:46. > :49:51.countries that have very good and affordable childcare, there are

:49:51. > :49:55.lessons we can learn. To those who say that changing the ratios are

:49:55. > :49:59.wrong, look at the ratios in countries like Denmark or France.

:49:59. > :50:02.We are coming into line with those, and we can provide more affordable

:50:02. > :50:08.childcare so that people who want to work are able to because they

:50:08. > :50:12.can find the child care they need. The British government has today

:50:12. > :50:16.accepted the proposals of the Electoral Commission in relation to

:50:16. > :50:18.the independence referendum. Amongst those recommendations is

:50:18. > :50:23.that the UK government and the Scottish government should jointly

:50:23. > :50:28.agreed to clarify what process will follow the referendum for either

:50:28. > :50:31.outcome. Given that the UK Government and Labour Party have

:50:31. > :50:34.called for the full acceptance of the Electoral Commission

:50:34. > :50:36.recommendations, will the Prime Minister today give a commitment to

:50:36. > :50:44.work with the Scottish government in advance of the referendum to

:50:44. > :50:48.come up with this joint position? welcome the fact that the SNP have

:50:48. > :50:51.accepted what the Electoral Commission found. They were worried

:50:51. > :50:55.that it was a biased question. So it is good that they have accepted

:50:55. > :51:01.that. Of course we will work with the Scottish government in

:51:01. > :51:09.providing information, but we will not pre- negotiate Scotland's exit

:51:09. > :51:17.from the UK. It is his party that wants to break up the UK, and it is

:51:17. > :51:22.for his party to make the case. Would my right honourable friend

:51:22. > :51:28.confirm that the 2 million plus surge in net immigration under the

:51:28. > :51:33.last Labour government has resulted in severe housing shortages,

:51:33. > :51:39.critical overstretch in our infrastructure and one household in

:51:39. > :51:44.20 who don't speak English? Would he agree with me that it is in the

:51:45. > :51:48.interests of all British citizens that we get a grip on our borders?

:51:48. > :51:54.My honourable friend is right. If you take up the last decade, net

:51:54. > :51:58.migration to the UK was running at over 200,000 a year, 2 million a

:51:58. > :52:02.cross a decade. That is the equivalent of two cities the size

:52:02. > :52:07.of Birmingham. It was too far and too high and the last government

:52:07. > :52:13.bears a huge responsibility for not taking responsible decisions. We

:52:13. > :52:17.are dealing with bogus colleges and bogus students, and the level of

:52:17. > :52:21.net migration has come down by a quarter. We need to do more in

:52:21. > :52:24.terms of making sure that while we welcome people who want to come

:52:24. > :52:29.here and work from within the European Union, we take a tougher

:52:29. > :52:35.approach to make sure people are not abusing our benefit system. The

:52:35. > :52:41.immigration minister is working on this issue. Last week, the Prime

:52:41. > :52:45.Minister described blacklisting as an unacceptable practice. Why is he

:52:45. > :52:53.still blacklisting food banks by refusing to have the decency to

:52:53. > :52:58.visit food banks to listen... To actually speed? The other side may

:52:58. > :53:01.find it funny, but thousands of families don't. Will the Prime

:53:01. > :53:07.Minister visits a food bank to actually speak to the people who

:53:07. > :53:13.use them? Maybe we need to modernise the system so that if you

:53:13. > :53:16.get a whip's question, you can get it on a tablet or an iPad so that

:53:16. > :53:19.you can change it as Question Time proceeds. I look forward to having

:53:19. > :53:24.those discussions with the people who operate food banks and those

:53:24. > :53:27.who use them. Use of them grew ten times under the Labour government,

:53:27. > :53:33.and instead of attacking them, we should praise the people who give

:53:33. > :53:38.their time to work in these organisations. After a huge

:53:38. > :53:43.community campaign, a hospital in Kendal was identified as the site

:53:43. > :53:47.for a new radiotherapy unit. In order to deliver this vital service,

:53:47. > :53:52.we need flexibility over the tariff for radiotherapy factions. Would

:53:52. > :53:55.the Prime Minister meet me to see how we can achieve this?

:53:55. > :53:59.honourable gentleman makes an important point about the tariff

:53:59. > :54:04.and changes to the terror. I will arrange for him to meet with the

:54:04. > :54:11.Health Secretary to discuss this. I know from visits to Cumbria how

:54:11. > :54:16.important the hospital he mentions is to local people. This week's

:54:16. > :54:23.announcement on the second phase of HS2 was welcomed in Manchester and

:54:23. > :54:27.the whole of the north of England. But if this project is really going

:54:27. > :54:35.to make an impact on the North- South divide, wouldn't it make

:54:35. > :54:39.sense to have won a hybrid bill, and built north to south as well as

:54:39. > :54:44.south to north? I am glad there is an all party welcomes for high-

:54:44. > :54:49.speed rail. It is important that we get this done. The best way of

:54:49. > :54:52.delivering the legislation, the leader of the house will come

:54:52. > :54:56.forward with our plans at the appropriate time. I worry that if

:54:56. > :55:01.you change the plans for building the bridge, you delay the overall

:55:01. > :55:05.project. My concern is that it is going too slowly. Last week, Graham

:55:05. > :55:09.goblin was convicted in cost of dangerous driving and causing the

:55:09. > :55:13.death of my much-respected constituent, Paul stock, while

:55:13. > :55:16.disqualified, and insured and speeding. Mr goblin has previous

:55:16. > :55:21.convictions for driving without insurance and while disqualified.

:55:21. > :55:26.He said he was not subject to the laws of our land. The current

:55:26. > :55:30.maximum sentence for this crime is two years. My constituent's widow

:55:30. > :55:34.believes it is time for Parliament to recognise the danger caused by a

:55:34. > :55:38.serial disqualified drivers, and to increase the maximum sentence for

:55:38. > :55:43.dangerous driving. Would my right honourable friend asked the Justice

:55:43. > :55:46.Secretary to look urgently at both these issues? For a right

:55:46. > :55:53.honourable friend can tell from the response around the house that this

:55:53. > :55:56.concern is shared widely. And at around the country. The previous

:55:56. > :56:00.government and this Government both worked to try and increase the

:56:00. > :56:03.penalties associated with drivers who have ended up killing people

:56:03. > :56:08.through their recklessness and carelessness. I will arrange for

:56:08. > :56:14.him to meet with the Justice Secretary. It is important that we

:56:14. > :56:20.give our courts a sense that when there are appalling crimes, they

:56:20. > :56:25.can take exemplary action. That is important in a justice system.

:56:25. > :56:29.the subject of food safety, can the Prime Minister confirm that traces

:56:29. > :56:39.of stalking horse have been found in the Conservative party food

:56:39. > :56:44.

:56:44. > :56:48.Somewhere in my briefing, I had some very complicated information

:56:48. > :56:54.about the danger of particular drugs for horses entering the food

:56:54. > :56:57.chain. He threw me completely with that ingenious pivot! The

:56:57. > :57:02.Conservative Party has always stood for people who want to work hard

:57:02. > :57:12.and get on. I am glad or that all of those behind me take that

:57:12. > :57:19.

:57:19. > :57:27.seriously. As my right honourable friend sets forth on his specific

:57:27. > :57:33.mission to Algeria, will he, with his great historical knowledge,

:57:33. > :57:43.bear in mind that when Philippe sent his eldest son to a Algeria in

:57:43. > :57:43.

:57:43. > :57:47.the 1840s Mac, on a similar venture, it took a century, massive

:57:47. > :57:52.casualties, the overthrow of the Third Republic and the genius of

:57:52. > :58:01.General de Gaulle to get the French army back out of the North African

:58:01. > :58:07.desert? Order! I think we want to hear the

:58:07. > :58:10.Prime Minister's answer to this question. I can reassure my right

:58:10. > :58:13.honourable friend, I am only planning to visit Algiers rather

:58:13. > :58:17.than anything else, but I am sure the events to which he referred, if

:58:17. > :58:27.he had put that in an urgent question, he would have got a

:58:27. > :58:36.

:58:36. > :58:42.Last week, the Prime Minister said he was paying down Britain's debt,

:58:42. > :58:48.but on his watch, it will go up by �600 billion. Will he take the

:58:48. > :58:52.opportunity to correct the record? We have got the deficit down by a

:58:52. > :58:57.quarter. To get on top of your debts, you have to get on top of

:58:57. > :59:02.the deficit. That is stage one. But it is worth reminding ourselves why

:59:02. > :59:07.we are having to do this in the first place. Who was it who racked

:59:07. > :59:13.up the debts? Who racked up the deficit? Who gave us the biggest

:59:13. > :59:19.deficit of any country virtually anywhere in the world? It was the

:59:19. > :59:22.Government he supported. If the Prime Minister agrees that a

:59:22. > :59:25.shortage of engineering skills is one of the greatest avoidable

:59:25. > :59:29.threats to our prosperity and security and that the participation

:59:29. > :59:32.rate of women in engineering is scandalously low, will he

:59:32. > :59:35.encouraged his colleagues to look favourably on my bill to inspire

:59:35. > :59:39.young people to take on the challenging and well-paid careers

:59:39. > :59:43.in engineering, whether it is graduates or apprentices? I will

:59:43. > :59:49.certainly look carefully at the bill that my honourable friend puts

:59:49. > :59:53.forward. In the recent UCAS data released today, an encouraging sign

:59:53. > :59:57.is that the number of people studying engineering and computer

:59:57. > :00:00.science has gone up radically as an early sign that the steps that have

:00:00. > :00:06.been taken over recent years by governments of all parties to try

:00:06. > :00:11.and raise the status of engineering are beginning to have an effect.

:00:11. > :00:18.His government has just introduced two new taxes which will cost

:00:18. > :00:23.people wanting to build their own home between 25 and �35,000 per

:00:23. > :00:28.family. Why is he choosing to put a block on the aspirations of young

:00:28. > :00:31.people who want to build their own home? Were we are encouraging

:00:31. > :00:35.people to build their own home and buy their own home, not least by

:00:35. > :00:41.the reform of the planning system that has seen the planning guidance

:00:41. > :00:45.go from 1000 pages to 50 pages. That is why we also encourage the

:00:45. > :00:48.right to buy. If honourable member has opposite one to help, they

:00:48. > :00:54.might want to talk to the Labour authorities that continually

:00:54. > :00:59.blocked people from buying their council housing association homes.

:00:59. > :01:03.Would my right honourable friend wish to congratulate and

:01:03. > :01:06.engineering company in my constituency, who have taken

:01:06. > :01:13.advantage of the capital allowances announced in the autumn statement

:01:13. > :01:18.and purchased a �1.3 million machine that will create six new

:01:18. > :01:24.jobs and a number of components for Jaguar cars that was destined for

:01:24. > :01:27.the forest? I certainly don't my friend bhangra in welcoming that

:01:27. > :01:32.investment. The campaign he has launched in Burnley did have an

:01:33. > :01:36.effect in bringing forward these proposals on capital allowances. It

:01:36. > :01:40.is clear that a lot of businesses do have money locked up in their

:01:40. > :01:43.balance sheets that we want to see invested, and these allowances are

:01:43. > :01:50.good way of encouraging businesses to bring forward that sort of

:01:50. > :01:56.investment. David Bresnan is severely disabled and has a medical

:01:56. > :02:01.need for an extra room in his home. Why is the Government he leads

:02:01. > :02:08.taking �776 a year away from him in order to pay for a tax cut for the

:02:09. > :02:14.richest? We put in place a �13 million discretionary fund to help

:02:14. > :02:20.in particular cases like the one he raises. But we have an overall

:02:20. > :02:23.situation where the housing benefit budget is �23 billion. That is only

:02:23. > :02:28.�10 billion less than their entire defence budget. It is not good

:02:28. > :02:32.enough for members opposite to oppose welfare cut after welfare

:02:32. > :02:38.cut to propose welfare spend after welfare spend while they realise

:02:38. > :02:42.that we are dealing with the mess they left. Does the Prime Minister

:02:42. > :02:46.agree that when the leader of the opposition talks about the economy,

:02:46. > :02:52.he sounds just like a Victorian undertaker looking forward to a

:02:52. > :02:56.hard winter? And does he not accept that you cannot get out of a debt

:02:56. > :03:03.crisis by borrowing more money? honourable friend makes a good

:03:03. > :03:09.point. The economy we inherited was completely unbalanced. It was based

:03:09. > :03:13.on housing, finance, government spending and immigration. Those

:03:13. > :03:19.were four incredibly unstable pillars for sustained economic

:03:19. > :03:24.growth. We have had to do a major recovery operation. It is still

:03:24. > :03:28.under way, but you can see, in the new jobs created, in the private

:03:28. > :03:38.sector businesses expanding, that we are making progress. George

:03:38. > :03:40.

:03:40. > :03:45.Galloway. Following yesterday's announcement, will the Prime

:03:45. > :03:49.Minister Adam bright for the house the key differences between the

:03:49. > :03:57.hand chopping, throat-cutting jihadists fighting the dictatorship

:03:57. > :04:04.in Mali that we are now to help to kill, and the equally bloodthirsty

:04:04. > :04:08.jihadists that we are giving money, material, political and diplomatic

:04:08. > :04:14.support to in Syria? Has the Prime Minister read Franken stein, and

:04:14. > :04:17.did he read it to the end? Well, some things come and go, but one

:04:17. > :04:26.thing is certain - wherever there is a brutal Arab dictator in the

:04:26. > :04:36.world, he will have the support of the honourable gentleman! Order!

:04:36. > :04:41.

:04:41. > :04:44.Last but not least, Craig Whittaker. We can definitely do without them.

:04:44. > :04:49.Will the Prime Minister tell the House whether he will be taking

:04:49. > :04:53.seriously the Liberal Democrat ministers who are queueing up today

:04:53. > :04:57.to resign their posts after voting against the Government in last

:04:57. > :05:02.night's vote? Clearly there is a profound disagreement about this

:05:02. > :05:06.issue. I would say to everyone in the House of Commons who voted for

:05:06. > :05:10.a nova sized house of Commons and unequal constituency boundaries

:05:10. > :05:20.that are both costly and unfair, they will have to justify that to

:05:20. > :05:25.

:05:25. > :05:30.That has dominated by the usual meat and drink of the economy,

:05:30. > :05:38.growth, the deficit and so on, between Mr Miliband and Mr Cameron.

:05:38. > :05:44.We did not predict they would do that, we were too busy talking

:05:44. > :05:49.about his stalking horse to the Tory leadership. The Prime Minister

:05:49. > :05:56.was teased about that particular stalking horse. Not the most

:05:56. > :06:01.interesting of PMQs. Harriet Harman, sitting beside the leader of the

:06:01. > :06:07.opposition, started tweeting about a campaign she is on to try to save

:06:07. > :06:13.a hospital. If they didn't find it boring, how did you?

:06:13. > :06:16.They didn't say so if they did. It was all on the economy. Clare says

:06:16. > :06:20.I don't think one single Miliband question was answered. David

:06:20. > :06:24.Cameron might not realise but as soon as he gets on to the banging

:06:24. > :06:29.on about Labour's thoughts, people stop listening. The Tories have

:06:29. > :06:35.trashed the recovery, the debt and the deficit, and I know they are

:06:35. > :06:38.rising, unlike David Cameron. One viewer said it was the

:06:38. > :06:43.strongest performance from Ed Miliband on the economy for a while,

:06:43. > :06:48.but another said that Miliband chose the wrong theme, his

:06:48. > :06:55.questions were labelled and his attempt to embarrass the Chancellor

:06:55. > :07:00.was ill-timed and badly executed. Es has lots of easy targets, the

:07:00. > :07:04.Lib Dem ministers, the economy in triple dip recession, yet he seems

:07:04. > :07:09.unable are finding a short, sharp punchline. If he can't do well now

:07:09. > :07:14.he will never be any use in the job. And this one to finish off with,

:07:14. > :07:24.love to go up -- love to James Landale, Wenders's Nick Robinson

:07:24. > :07:26.

:07:26. > :07:33.retire?! That was from Mrs Landale! Let's come back to this stalking

:07:34. > :07:40.horse. All this stuff has been in the paper about Adam a free day, is

:07:40. > :07:44.he behind that or rather people behind him behind that?

:07:44. > :07:52.understanding is that the chain of events was that it emerged somehow,

:07:52. > :07:57.we don't know precisely how, and wants a bit of it emerged then his

:07:57. > :08:01.camp, if I can call them that, a handful of MPs made a tactical

:08:01. > :08:06.decision that if it was going public it might as well be fully

:08:06. > :08:11.cocked, not half-cocked. They got some details about the approach

:08:11. > :08:17.they might take. That is how it got out. Whether it is the right

:08:17. > :08:23.strategy I will leave to others to judge. To be honest, I didn't take

:08:23. > :08:29.it seriously even though it was in three Sunday papers, and yet I have

:08:29. > :08:37.read an excellent newsletter, I am sure we all read it, he has

:08:37. > :08:41.appointed a PR person, a press officer...? I know that one

:08:41. > :08:46.journalist has been approached in the past to see if they can help

:08:46. > :08:51.write some speeches and things? What we are talking about his after

:08:51. > :08:57.2015, we are not talking about any pre-emptive strike, it is about

:08:57. > :09:02.what will happen afterwards. He is the MP for Windsor, Wright, a self-

:09:02. > :09:06.made businessman, he has been very successful, he entered Parliament

:09:06. > :09:14.in 2005, he has been there for a while, but some people say he has

:09:14. > :09:18.disappeared without trace, he has not made much impact? There are

:09:18. > :09:22.many, many Conservative MPs who agree entirely with that, they

:09:22. > :09:27.think the idea is ludicrous. Your microphone has gone off, I am told.

:09:27. > :09:34.It has fallen off. Many people said he has disappeared without trace,

:09:34. > :09:39.he has not made an impact in Parliament that he was expected to?

:09:39. > :09:44.Most care that it -- Conservative MPs would agree, they found the

:09:44. > :09:48.idea of him potentially being leader ludicrous, but they did not

:09:48. > :09:53.to find a ludicrous that next time around it should be an

:09:53. > :09:57.establishment shoo-in, there should be a candidate from the backbenches.

:09:57. > :10:02.My guess is that there will be a very large field, next time around,

:10:03. > :10:08.of many people, some of them more plausible than others. What do you

:10:08. > :10:15.make of this? It is very strange. I think the Taiwanese animation we

:10:15. > :10:20.saw is the level of seriousness that it deserves. The Prime

:10:20. > :10:23.Minister out polls the Conservative Party, he is very popular, he is

:10:23. > :10:27.demonstrating clear leadership on issues like defence and foreign

:10:27. > :10:32.party, he will lead the party into the election which every

:10:32. > :10:35.Conservative MP should be focused on winning, getting a majority

:10:35. > :10:39.Conservative government. I am confident he will be Prime Minister

:10:39. > :10:43.of a majority Conservative government in 2015. The famine was

:10:43. > :10:46.making his big pitch with the European intervention last week and

:10:47. > :10:50.you must be absolutely furious. He was putting a brave face on it

:10:50. > :10:54.today, but his whole weekend was ringed with this potential

:10:54. > :11:01.leadership coming out into the open. People will think this is a turning

:11:01. > :11:06.point. It is people talking about the Prime Minister's weakness and

:11:06. > :11:14.vulnerability. People will now think there is no smoke without

:11:14. > :11:18.fire when it comes to division and weakness and... Are you in any

:11:18. > :11:24.doubt, really, that Mr Cameron will lead the Conservatives into the

:11:24. > :11:28.next election? I suspect you will, but it does him no favours to have

:11:28. > :11:33.these much more Alban... It used to be the case that stalking horses

:11:33. > :11:37.were few and far between, to have this so soon and out in the Open is

:11:37. > :11:40.unprecedented. The counter conspiracy theory is that when you

:11:40. > :11:45.are in a position of strength, you have given a big speech on Europe,

:11:45. > :11:49.you have more command, that is the moment that you start naming people

:11:49. > :11:53.who might be presumptuous enough to think they might replace you.

:11:53. > :12:00.We will leave it there in case those stalking horses end up in

:12:00. > :12:05.Tesco burgers! Allegedly. Is it just allegedly?! My legal adviser

:12:05. > :12:09.will deal with all inquiries. In recent weeks, videos have appeared

:12:09. > :12:12.on the internet showing people in the London borough of Tower Hamlets

:12:12. > :12:16.being subjected to abuse and told they should get out of a Muslim

:12:16. > :12:18.area. The actions of these so- called patrols has been widely

:12:18. > :12:21.condemned by the local Muslim community. For our soapbox this

:12:21. > :12:24.week, human rights campaigner Peter Tatchell has been out on the

:12:24. > :12:31.streets of Whitechapel. His report begins with language that may

:12:31. > :12:37.offend some viewers. You are walking through a Muslim

:12:37. > :12:42.area dress like a fag, mate. You need to get out of here. The words

:12:42. > :12:47.of a tiny band of self proclaimed Muslim vigilantes in East London.

:12:47. > :12:55.They allegedly seek to enforce Sharia law by harassing men who

:12:55. > :13:00.seem to be gay... This is a Muslim area. Women deemed to be dressed

:13:00. > :13:10.immodestly and people seen drinking alcohol. No alcohol is allowed.

:13:10. > :13:15.

:13:15. > :13:19.main victims of these bullies were local Muslims.

:13:19. > :13:24.These so-called patrols took place in these streets, where diverse

:13:25. > :13:28.communities, for the most part, co- exist without trouble. The

:13:28. > :13:32.condemnation from the Muslim community has been swift and

:13:32. > :13:37.commendable. In one sermon delivered in East London Mosque,

:13:37. > :13:41.the vigilantes were denounced as complete bigots who had contravened

:13:41. > :13:47.rather than enforced Islamic law. There has also been criticism from

:13:47. > :13:51.the Muslim Council of Britain. Now the challenge to Muslim

:13:51. > :13:57.organisations is to show their commitment to equality by closing

:13:57. > :14:02.their draws to homophobic hate preachers and by supporting an end

:14:02. > :14:06.to the ban on same-sex marriage. Most Muslim people do not seek to

:14:06. > :14:12.impose their personal beliefs on others. While they may not approve

:14:12. > :14:17.of homosexuality or gay marriage, equally, they do not approve of

:14:17. > :14:24.homophobia, nor do they believe the law should discriminate against gay

:14:24. > :14:27.people. For them, discrimination is not a Muslim value.

:14:27. > :14:33.Although homophobia and Islamaphobia are different, the gay

:14:33. > :14:37.and Muslim communities share a parallel experience of prejudice,

:14:37. > :14:42.discrimination and hate crime. Victimisation of Muslim people is

:14:42. > :14:47.wrong, so, too, is the victimisation of gay people. We

:14:47. > :14:57.have a common interest in working together to create a more tolerant

:14:57. > :14:57.

:14:57. > :15:02.and just society. Equality for all, hatred of Phnom. -- hatred of none.

:15:02. > :15:06.Peter Tatchell joins us in the studio, along with the Faith and

:15:06. > :15:09.Communities Minister Baroness Warsi. Is it right to say that women --

:15:09. > :15:13.that Muslims are more commonly the victims rather than perpetrators of

:15:13. > :15:19.harassment? Yes, and these vigilantes are predominantly

:15:19. > :15:23.tackling fellow Muslims, we should stand against these bullies.

:15:23. > :15:28.there any truth in the suggestion that there is a wider issue of

:15:28. > :15:32.homophobia and, perhaps, even sexism among British Muslims?

:15:33. > :15:36.think I must congratulate the organisations who came out and

:15:36. > :15:40.condemned this. It is pleasing and heartening for me to see so many

:15:40. > :15:45.organisations come out and condemn this so clearly. But what was said

:15:45. > :15:50.at the end of Peter's video, this is an issue which both communities

:15:50. > :15:55.have to face together. I have said on many occasions is the strength

:15:55. > :15:59.is when a white person says racism is wrong, a straight person says

:15:59. > :16:04.homophobia is wrong, and when a non-Muslim person says Islamaphobia

:16:04. > :16:07.is wrong. But what about homophobia? Do you think it is a

:16:07. > :16:11.bigger problem, perhaps, for British Muslims than in the wider

:16:11. > :16:19.community? There is a challenge with a lots of these communities

:16:19. > :16:23.about how we'd discuss the issue of homosexuality. -- with a lot of

:16:23. > :16:27.these communities. Personal religious belief has to be

:16:27. > :16:31.separated from discrimination, homophobia and the law of the land.

:16:31. > :16:34.The more we can make that argument that of course, people of faith can

:16:34. > :16:40.have a fake position on how they view homosexuality or

:16:40. > :16:43.heterosexuality, they must openly condemn homophobia. What is your

:16:43. > :16:46.anecdotal experience you have heard in terms of attitudes within the

:16:46. > :16:52.British Muslim community towards things like when they are talking

:16:52. > :16:56.about homophobia and sexism? Muslim community is not uniquely

:16:56. > :17:00.homophobic or sexist, there are some in that community like all

:17:00. > :17:05.others. Some polls indicate there may be high levels of homophobia

:17:05. > :17:09.and sexism in some sections of the Muslim community, but not all, by a

:17:09. > :17:13.long shot. I find disappointing that the Muslim Council of Britain

:17:13. > :17:17.in 2008, after many years of dialogue I had with them, agreed

:17:17. > :17:21.that from that moment onwards they would not support discriminates to

:17:21. > :17:24.off. They could not approve of homosexuality but they would not

:17:24. > :17:27.support laws discriminating against gay people, yet the day they are

:17:27. > :17:34.working with Christian fundamentalists to oppose equal

:17:34. > :17:38.civil marriage. I am really sorry that they have taken that stands. I

:17:38. > :17:48.accept their right to disagree with gay marriage, but as Baroness Warsi

:17:48. > :17:56.

:17:56. > :18:00.said I don't think it is right to Peter is right that many faith

:18:00. > :18:04.communities have concerns about the position the Government is taking,

:18:04. > :18:07.and it is right for us to have a dialogue. I have said openly that

:18:07. > :18:11.providing we have the right safeguards in place so that no

:18:11. > :18:17.faith institution will be forced to conduct same-sex married within

:18:17. > :18:21.their religious institutions, they the positions or faith communities

:18:21. > :18:26.can then move forward and say, we have a theological position, but we

:18:26. > :18:30.have a position in terms of the law of the land. The two have to be

:18:30. > :18:35.separated. Moving on to the gangs that were shown in those films,

:18:35. > :18:39.what needs to be done? Firstly, the community itself has to condemn

:18:39. > :18:45.this. I was delighted from the outset that local mosques and

:18:45. > :18:50.community groups condemned it. They are appalling. If you watch the

:18:50. > :18:54.YouTube clips of them, late at night, in the dark, approaching a

:18:54. > :19:00.woman, criticising her dress, criticising alcohol, we have a

:19:00. > :19:03.police force and a set of laws in this country. They are the same for

:19:03. > :19:08.everybody. We do not need vigilantes on our streets behaving

:19:08. > :19:13.in that way. It is right that the police have made arrests. They need

:19:13. > :19:18.to be made an example of. One of the concerns from the Quilliam

:19:18. > :19:23.Foundation think-tank, they have said they fear that these incidents

:19:23. > :19:27.could increase. Do you agree? don't think these incidents are

:19:28. > :19:32.isolated. I have had reports over many years that in parts of east

:19:32. > :19:37.London, local Muslims have been harassed by fundamentalist Muslims

:19:37. > :19:41.within their own community, trying to enforce strict dress codes, bans

:19:41. > :19:46.on alcohol and severe harassment of men and women either known to be

:19:46. > :19:50.gay or perceived to be gay. That has been going on for a long time

:19:50. > :19:53.and I don't think sufficient action has been taken. But I am delighted

:19:53. > :19:58.that a representative of the Muslim Council of Britain has condemned

:19:58. > :20:03.this particular patrol. Do you think this is a sign of things to

:20:03. > :20:08.come? I don't agree. I think the picture painted is quite

:20:08. > :20:14.sensationalist. I agree with what Peter has said, that there are

:20:14. > :20:20.pockets of people - I faced it in Luton - I turned up and they told

:20:20. > :20:24.me I should have been dressed with my face covered. There are usually

:20:24. > :20:31.about half a dozen egotistical, attention-seeking no jobs, the only

:20:31. > :20:35.way to describe them, who will come together. But they represent nobody.

:20:35. > :20:39.But it is threatening. That is why it has to be challenged. The police

:20:39. > :20:43.have to be educated to make sure they deal with this. One of the

:20:43. > :20:48.biggest criticisms until now has been that the community does not

:20:48. > :20:55.come out and say, not in my name. With this incident - I think the

:20:55. > :20:58.police can do more, when I was egg in Luton and threatened by these

:20:58. > :21:01.individuals, officers came up to me and said, you do realise they have

:21:01. > :21:06.a right to protest? And I said, that is fine, but I have just been

:21:06. > :21:11.harassed and bullied by a set of idiots and I would like more

:21:12. > :21:15.response done that! From my experience, I have been attacked in

:21:15. > :21:19.east London on three occasions by people will have professed to be

:21:19. > :21:23.Islamic fundamentalists who have used quotes from the Koran to

:21:23. > :21:26.physically assault me and abuse me because I am gay. I am not

:21:26. > :21:31.suggesting that is a widespread view, but I have had personal

:21:31. > :21:35.experience of it and I know many other day people, particularly gay

:21:35. > :21:39.Muslims in east London, who are terrified of being discovered by

:21:39. > :21:43.these extremists. And when I went to East London last year to support

:21:43. > :21:47.the Muslim community against the EDL, I was physically threatened by

:21:48. > :21:52.a small group of fanatics. Thankfully, some Muslims Kate to my

:21:52. > :21:56.defence. So it is not a universally bleak picture. Have a will you vote

:21:56. > :22:00.on gay marriage? Providing I can get the legal safeguards which I

:22:00. > :22:06.have been speaking to Maria Miller about and providing the faith

:22:06. > :22:10.communities on the right page, I will be voting for gay marriage.

:22:10. > :22:14.Now to immigration. If you are watching this programme in Bulgaria

:22:14. > :22:18.and Romania, and we know many of you do, the immigration minister

:22:18. > :22:22.here, Mark Harper, is keen to point out that the streets of Britain are

:22:22. > :22:25.not paved with gold, contrary to popular opinion. According to

:22:25. > :22:29.reports earlier this week, the Government is so worried about a

:22:29. > :22:33.possible influx of migrants from the two countries that it is

:22:33. > :22:43.considering a negative advertising campaign in an effort to keep

:22:43. > :22:44.

:22:44. > :22:54.people away. Surely not? Welcome to Great Britain. Home to

:22:54. > :23:19.

:23:19. > :23:29.great weather. Great shopping. And you are guaranteed a great

:23:29. > :23:31.

:23:31. > :23:35.welcome. Britain - sure you wouldn't rather go to France?

:23:35. > :23:38.Well, if that doesn't put you off coming, nothing will. Is it true

:23:39. > :23:43.that you are going to make adverts to deter the Bulgarians and

:23:43. > :23:47.Romanians from coming to Britain? would not believe everything you

:23:47. > :23:50.read in the papers. What we are actually up to is what the Prime

:23:50. > :23:55.Minister talked about at Prime Minister's Questions. I am chairing

:23:55. > :23:59.a committee of ministers across government to look at what people

:23:59. > :24:03.who come to this country, both those who come legally and

:24:03. > :24:08.illegally, how easy it is to access public services and make sure we

:24:08. > :24:13.are not seen as a soft touch. That does not just apply to Romania and

:24:13. > :24:17.Bulgaria, it applies to everyone. Are you considering devising ways

:24:17. > :24:21.of deterring Romanians and Bulgarians from coming here?

:24:21. > :24:26.not in the way that was characterised in that video. If

:24:26. > :24:31.people from Bulgaria and Romania come here and work and contribute,

:24:31. > :24:40.we don't want people coming to this country who just use it to claim

:24:40. > :24:45.benefits and live off the state. But before I come on to that, are

:24:45. > :24:49.you considering devising ways of deterring them from coming in the

:24:49. > :24:53.first place? We want to make sure people have an accurate view of

:24:54. > :25:00.what the deal is here. It is not a soft touch for benefits. So you

:25:00. > :25:06.are? We will not do stuff like that. Will you take out ads in Bulgaria

:25:06. > :25:10.and Romania? Were have not even thought about it. But you might?

:25:10. > :25:15.are doing the serious work of looking what our rules are for

:25:16. > :25:19.access to public services, benefits. We have started at work. I have no

:25:19. > :25:28.specific announcements to give you today on your programme. I will

:25:28. > :25:33.announce it in Parliament first. But we are doing serious work.

:25:33. > :25:38.have not quite answered what I was asking, but let me move on. If a

:25:38. > :25:42.Romanian or Bulgarian comes to this country to work, whether they get

:25:42. > :25:46.worker or not is another matter, but they come to live here - do

:25:47. > :25:50.they have automatic access to the NHS? At the moment, if somebody

:25:50. > :25:55.comes here to work, they can access the health service on the same

:25:55. > :26:00.basis as someone who lives here. We are considering whether that is

:26:00. > :26:05.right. Under the European rules, if you come here, you are not supposed

:26:05. > :26:10.to be a burden on our health service. The NHS is a national

:26:10. > :26:13.service, not a national one. So we are looking to see if we have

:26:13. > :26:18.sufficient protections in place. Her but as things stand, if they

:26:18. > :26:21.come, they can access the NHS on the same basis as you all right?

:26:21. > :26:25.For if you come here to work and you pay National Insurance

:26:25. > :26:32.contributions, you have access to the NHS. If they get a job when

:26:32. > :26:36.they come here, but it is quite a low-paid job, as they tend to be,

:26:36. > :26:42.as they take jobs we don't like doing or minimum-wage jobs, are

:26:42. > :26:46.they entitled to in-work benefits from the get go? He depends. If

:26:46. > :26:51.they are in work and paying National Insurance contributions,

:26:51. > :26:55.they will become eligible for contributory benefits. A will they

:26:55. > :27:00.become eligible for working tax credit? Will they get child

:27:00. > :27:06.benefit? That depends whether you have a National Insurance

:27:06. > :27:10.contribution record. If you do, yes, you are entitled to it. We are

:27:10. > :27:13.looking at not just what our rules are, which are quite tough, it is

:27:13. > :27:18.looking at what our rules are compared to why European neighbours

:27:18. > :27:22.to make sure that if someone is making a choice about where they

:27:22. > :27:27.come and what they get from the state, we want to make sure we are

:27:27. > :27:30.not the easiest country. Sam is like there are a lot of reasons for

:27:30. > :27:34.coming. You asked an interesting question interviewing Eric Pickles

:27:34. > :27:38.a few weeks ago about what the numbers will be. I suspect that the

:27:38. > :27:44.Government have actually got a projection. They always estimate

:27:44. > :27:47.when these transitional controls come out. And yet we need freedom

:27:47. > :27:51.of information questions to find out what they are. So can I

:27:51. > :27:55.respectfully ask, what is the figure? I have been very

:27:55. > :28:01.straightforward. The government is not in the business of making

:28:01. > :28:09.speculative forecasts. You were. You can do a Freedom of Information

:28:09. > :28:14.request. Eric Pickles said he had a figure, but he did not believe it.

:28:14. > :28:17.But you should project what the impact will be. Our independent

:28:17. > :28:22.advisory committee looked at this and said trying to come up with a

:28:22. > :28:29.forecast is not sensible. There are so many variables. But they got it

:28:29. > :28:39.right. Labour got it wrong. We have run out of time. In guess the year,

:28:39. > :28:44.

:28:44. > :28:49.what was the year? 1985. Richard Waddington from Romania... No,