:00:42. > :00:47.Good afternoon, welcome to the Daily Politics. There has been a
:00:47. > :00:49.dramatic turn of events in court this morning. Former Liberal
:00:49. > :00:55.Democrat cabinet minister Chris Huhne has changed his plea to
:00:55. > :00:59.guilty of perverting the course of justice and has resigned as an MP.
:00:59. > :01:04.The first big parliamentary vote on gay marriages fast approaching. As
:01:04. > :01:09.many as 180 Tory MPs look like they will refuse to follow David Cameron
:01:09. > :01:12.and vote in favour. The Chancellor has been laying down the law to the
:01:12. > :01:17.City. If the banks don't put a great big electric fence between
:01:17. > :01:24.the bits that look after your savings and the bits that do the
:01:24. > :01:29.risky stuff, he will step in and force them to split up. What does
:01:29. > :01:35.Parliament have in common with 1970s rock legends Deep Purple, at
:01:35. > :01:39.least according to the speaker? All that within the next hour. Our
:01:39. > :01:44.guest of the day is the City analyst and financial blogger
:01:44. > :01:49.Louise Cooper. Welcome. This morning's dramatic turn of events
:01:49. > :01:52.at Southwark Crown Court first. Until now, former Energy Secretary
:01:52. > :01:57.Chris Huhne was pleading not guilty to perverting the course of justice
:01:57. > :02:00.in a case relating as to whether or not he got his former wife to take
:02:00. > :02:06.points relating to a speeding offence. Within an hour, that
:02:06. > :02:12.changed. I have pleaded guilty today. I am unable to say more
:02:12. > :02:16.while there is an outstanding trial. Having taken responsibility for
:02:16. > :02:20.something which happened 10 years ago, the only proper course of
:02:20. > :02:26.action for me is to resign my Eastleigh seat in Parliament, which
:02:26. > :02:30.I will do very shortly. That is all I can say today.
:02:30. > :02:36.Chris Huhne speaking outside court not very long ago. James Landale,
:02:36. > :02:38.our deputy political editor, joins me. Asda's legal journalist and
:02:38. > :02:43.political commentator Joshua Rozenberg. That is a dramatic turn
:02:43. > :02:49.of events. Only one week ago Chris Huhne was pleading not guilty, now
:02:49. > :02:53.he is not. What a difference a week makes! He has been considering his
:02:53. > :02:57.position and speaking to his lawyers. They will have told him
:02:57. > :03:01.that if he pleads guilty before Ray Durie is sworn in he will get a
:03:01. > :03:06.shorter sentence than if he pleaded not guilty and was convicted. He
:03:06. > :03:09.thinks pleading guilty is the right thing to do and has been released
:03:09. > :03:17.on unconditional bail pending the trial of his former wife Vicky
:03:17. > :03:22.Pryce. How does the trial of his former wife affect the timing of
:03:22. > :03:27.the sentence? He will not be sentenced until the trial of Vicky
:03:27. > :03:34.Pryce is over. That is the priority for the courts. Once that trial
:03:34. > :03:42.ends, Chris Huhne will be brought back. The judge may want to report.
:03:42. > :03:47.He will then sentence Chris Huhne for the FMC has admitted.
:03:47. > :03:50.Perverting the course of justice is a serious crime? Very serious, the
:03:50. > :03:54.penalty is a limited, it could be as much as life imprisonment. I
:03:54. > :04:00.would not say it would be in this case, but it will be imprisonment,
:04:01. > :04:04.the judge has hinted at that. He told Mr Hoon, be under no illusions
:04:04. > :04:10.about the sentence you will receive. I think the going rate is anything
:04:10. > :04:15.from 12 months downwards. In similar cases sentences of 12
:04:15. > :04:20.months have been passed, reduced to six months, four months. Can you
:04:21. > :04:27.remind us are broadly of the events surrounding the case? The question
:04:27. > :04:33.was who was driving the family car at the time that it was spotted by
:04:33. > :04:38.a speed camera. The allegation is that Chris Huhne was driving and he
:04:38. > :04:44.got his then wife to take the points, to say that she was driving.
:04:44. > :04:49.She has said boot she is denying the charge of perverting the course
:04:50. > :04:54.of justice and says she was coerced by him and has put forward the very
:04:54. > :04:59.unusual defence of marital coercion. James Landale, he had to resign his
:05:00. > :05:06.seat, even if there was a technical justification? It was not an
:05:06. > :05:13.option? But for 511 votes, Chris Huhne could be Deputy Prime
:05:13. > :05:18.Minister today. He was one of the Lib Dems' big beasts. They don't
:05:18. > :05:23.have a -- don't have many of them. His career is now over. He realised
:05:23. > :05:28.he had no choice but to go. You can get into technical arguments about
:05:28. > :05:31.parliamentary rules, you can't be a sitting MP and sentenced to prison
:05:31. > :05:37.for more than a year. I think he thought that regardless of those
:05:37. > :05:40.rules, he had to go. The political significance is huge. We will have
:05:40. > :05:45.the first by-election of this parliament where the coalition
:05:45. > :05:49.parties, the Lib Dems and the Conservatives, go head-to-head in
:05:49. > :05:52.Chris Huhne's constituency. The majority is just over 3000, it is
:05:52. > :05:58.eminently winnable for the Conservatives and already on their
:05:58. > :06:01.target list. I think many Conservatives will see this as an
:06:01. > :06:06.opportunity to throw the kitchen sink at the by-election. If they
:06:06. > :06:10.win it it would be a good way for David Cameron to silence people who
:06:10. > :06:13.are doubting his leadership. Many Conservatives at the moment feel
:06:13. > :06:19.very angry and upset with the Lib Dems because of their refusal to
:06:19. > :06:23.support the boundary changes. They might see this as an opportunity to
:06:23. > :06:28.get their own back. What about the loss to the Liberal Democrats? Has
:06:28. > :06:31.there been reaction from Nick Clegg? Nothing officially at. We
:06:31. > :06:36.expected to make a statement, at some point he has to say something
:06:36. > :06:42.about this. Chris Huhne, the Lib Dems wanted him back. And he said
:06:42. > :06:46.so, Nick Clegg? He used the phrase, at the top table, something like
:06:46. > :06:50.that. One Lib Dem said to me that Chris Huhne is a carnivore in a
:06:50. > :06:56.party of herbivores. He took the fight to the Conservatives, he
:06:56. > :07:00.would argue the toss with David Cameron over the Cabinet table, but
:07:00. > :07:04.Conservatives' treatment of Nick Clegg and the Lib Dems about AV.
:07:05. > :07:11.That kind of big beast, parties don't have many. The Lib Dems had
:07:11. > :07:16.very few and now one is gone. aid to Nick Clegg say he is shocked
:07:16. > :07:19.and saddened by Christian's conduct. He telephoned Nick Clegg last night
:07:19. > :07:23.to tell them of the decision to plead guilty. Even though they were
:07:23. > :07:30.up against each other in the leadership contest, Chris Huhne
:07:30. > :07:34.only just lost. It will also be a personal loss to Nick Clegg? These
:07:34. > :07:37.guys were colleagues together in the European Parliament. They have
:07:37. > :07:41.been knocking around as young friends and rivals within the Lib
:07:41. > :07:45.Dems for many years. And to see a friend of yours like this go down
:07:45. > :07:50.like this is something that I think he will clearly feel very
:07:50. > :07:53.personally. But the challenge for Nick Clegg now is to work out what
:07:53. > :07:58.strategy you'll deployed to try to protect his party politically,
:07:58. > :08:02.because this will be a huge blow -- what strategy he will deploy. If
:08:03. > :08:05.anybody wants to denigrate the lake -- the Lib Dems, they will mention
:08:05. > :08:09.Chris Huhne and they hit will be made.
:08:09. > :08:13.MPs will debate the Marriage Bill and House of Commons tomorrow. It
:08:13. > :08:16.it becomes law, gay people will be able to get married for the first
:08:16. > :08:21.time in England and Wales. The law would allow for religious same-sex
:08:21. > :08:25.weddings as well as civil, but only if religious organisations opt in.
:08:25. > :08:29.The Church of England and shirts at -- Church of Wales will
:08:29. > :08:32.specifically be prevented from doing so. The Government insists
:08:32. > :08:38.nobody will be forced to offer gay weddings if they don't want to, but
:08:38. > :08:41.critics say those safeguards are not enough. And many critics are
:08:41. > :08:45.within the Conservative Party. David Cameron has invited his MPs
:08:45. > :08:48.to support his plans for gay marriage but it looks increasingly
:08:48. > :08:52.that many want to leave them standing at the altar.
:08:52. > :08:57.Bit is estimated that as many as 120 Conservative MPs will vote
:08:57. > :09:02.against the Bill, and a further 60 could abstain. Less than half are
:09:02. > :09:06.expected to vote in favour of. Yesterday 20 Conservative
:09:06. > :09:10.constituency association chairman delivered a letter to Downing
:09:10. > :09:14.Street warning of significant damage to the Conservative Party if
:09:14. > :09:18.the Bill is enacted. But with the vast majority of Labour and Lib Dem
:09:18. > :09:22.MPs set to back the plan, it should not have any problem in getting
:09:22. > :09:27.through. The Prime Minister thinks most of the public on his side.
:09:27. > :09:33.Polling figures vary but most have found Dave -- found a majority in
:09:33. > :09:38.favour of same-sex marriage. One recent poll suggested 55% in favour
:09:38. > :09:43.and 36% against. But a poll published at the weekend suggested
:09:43. > :09:49.that 20% of people who voted Conservative would not do so again
:09:49. > :09:51.in 2015 if the Government pushes ahead. Geoffrey Vero, the chairman
:09:51. > :09:56.of the Surrey Heath Conservative constituency Association, one of
:09:56. > :10:00.the people who delivered that letter to Downing Street, and a
:10:00. > :10:04.Conservative MP who backed the plans, both joined me now. What
:10:04. > :10:08.damage is being inflicted on the Conservative Party, in your mind,
:10:08. > :10:12.because of plans to legalise gay marriage? It is difficult to
:10:12. > :10:17.totally quantify but we know we have had a very considerable number
:10:17. > :10:26.of e-mails and litres -- letters into the constituency office, and
:10:26. > :10:30.directly to Michael Gove, who is our MP. He disagrees with you?
:10:31. > :10:34.are fundamentally opposed, we have agreed to disagree. Everybody is
:10:34. > :10:39.entitled to their own views, I would like to make it very clear,
:10:39. > :10:42.but our fear is we are having resignations, activists saying, I'm
:10:42. > :10:48.terribly sorry, but next time around I won't be sending out the
:10:48. > :10:53.leaflets, I won't do stuffing or mocking up. It is very important,
:10:53. > :10:57.in order to get selected at a general election, you need to get
:10:57. > :11:02.the vote out. That is the risk David Cameron is taking. Gavin
:11:02. > :11:06.Barwell, is it worth the risk? a Conservative because I believe
:11:06. > :11:09.marriage is hugely important in our society. Providing there is
:11:09. > :11:13.protection for religious groups who do not want to conduct same-sex
:11:13. > :11:17.marriages, I would like to see the maximum of people be able to
:11:17. > :11:23.benefit from this institution and exchange the same virus that my
:11:23. > :11:30.wife and I have. The list that you just stated shows that it is
:11:30. > :11:35.unlikely to have significance one way or the other, but it is about
:11:35. > :11:41.the principle, not the boats. polls indicate that the majority of
:11:41. > :11:45.the public are in favour of. And a majority of Conservative supporters.
:11:45. > :11:52.So what do you say about the claims made by Geoffrey Vero but you will
:11:52. > :11:56.bleed support in the party, grass roots will desert you? That is not
:11:56. > :11:59.my experience in my constituency. Three vote issues are difficult,
:11:59. > :12:04.they divide parties, there will be members of the party who have a
:12:04. > :12:07.different opinion, and I respect that opinion, but if you look at
:12:07. > :12:10.the wider picture in terms of all the things the Government is doing,
:12:10. > :12:15.you will not see dedicated and committed Conservatives giving up
:12:15. > :12:19.altogether. Louise, how does it look to you when you hear people
:12:19. > :12:23.like Geoffrey Vero saying that it is turning off the grass roots of
:12:23. > :12:29.the party? I think the vocal minority of grassroots Tories, out
:12:29. > :12:33.shouting, as always happens, the majority are too busy paying their
:12:33. > :12:36.mortgages, paying their bills, coping with financial crisis and
:12:36. > :12:42.unemployment and they look at Westminster and say, what is going
:12:42. > :12:47.on? You people are out of date and out of touch. Especially some of
:12:47. > :12:52.these grass roots, church-going, playing golf on Sunday take people.
:12:52. > :12:56.Out of touch with what modern Britain looks like. I'm afraid this
:12:56. > :13:00.is the perception from the outside looking into this issue which is
:13:00. > :13:08.convulsing the party. That will be more damaging than the activists
:13:08. > :13:14.you might lose? This is a view expressed by people... This is a
:13:14. > :13:18.complex issue. We are trying to overturn 5000 years of views on
:13:18. > :13:24.perceived civilisation. We are a progressive country, we are moving
:13:24. > :13:28.forward, and the presentation to the letter -- of the letter to
:13:28. > :13:32.David Cameron was saying just slow the process down. We don't believe
:13:32. > :13:37.it is in the manifesto or mandate within his government, we would
:13:37. > :13:44.like it debated long and hard. The statistics are all over the place.
:13:44. > :13:47.We have seen completely different pollings on this. I think it is
:13:47. > :13:52.very important to respect some of the older people. We had a chat
:13:52. > :13:57.earlier, this is a generational issue. A lot of people,
:13:57. > :14:00.progressively over the age of 45 and 50, feel this is an attack on
:14:00. > :14:05.many of their core beliefs and I think we need to have a much more
:14:05. > :14:09.rational discussion than perhaps being dismissed as old fogies.
:14:09. > :14:13.is an important point. If you look at the polling, it is perhaps not
:14:13. > :14:17.surprising that older people and people of these are more concerned.
:14:17. > :14:22.Just to dismiss those objections and say you are out of touch, you
:14:22. > :14:26.don't get it, is not right. You have to understand their concerns.
:14:26. > :14:30.But you will not change! But the legislation addresses some of the
:14:30. > :14:33.concerns. Many of my constituents worried that their church, mosque
:14:34. > :14:38.or synagogue would have to marry people they don't think they should.
:14:38. > :14:43.We need to convince them that the safeguards are there. We either
:14:43. > :14:47.live in unequal society or we don't. We either live in a society that
:14:47. > :14:50.discriminates against people, or we don't. Yes, but it is the way we
:14:50. > :14:54.conduct the debate, we cannot tell people they are out of touch and
:14:54. > :14:59.dismiss their objections. The boat will happen on Tuesday and is most
:14:59. > :15:04.likely to go through. It will do, but it is only one process. It has
:15:04. > :15:08.to go to the Lords and then come back. You have to go through the
:15:08. > :15:17.drafting of the bill. I think it is poorly drafted at present. We need
:15:17. > :15:22.to consult more. It is not just an issue of equality. Why not? It has
:15:22. > :15:26.complexities as regards teachers, children and everything else.
:15:26. > :15:30.Equality seems to be the 53rd card in the pack, the joker which trumps
:15:30. > :15:35.any arguments you have. If you don't like something, play the
:15:35. > :15:39.quality card. It is more complex. Can you give us some examples of
:15:39. > :15:44.some of the bad drafting of things you don't like? The drafting makes
:15:44. > :15:48.a nonsense -- traditionally in marriage, the grounds for divorce
:15:48. > :15:54.are none consummation and adultery. You can't have that in same-sex
:15:54. > :15:57.marriage. It comes across as very bizarre. The new Archbishop of
:15:57. > :16:02.Canterbury is seriously questioning what David Cameron is doing. The
:16:02. > :16:07.Pope is totally against this. It is a complex issue and you are playing
:16:07. > :16:09.with core beliefs in humanity. It is not purely an equality issue.
:16:09. > :16:19.But I understand there is another point of view and we have to
:16:19. > :16:30.
:16:30. > :16:34.There is concern that all teachers have a responsibility under the
:16:34. > :16:39.Education Act to teach marriage. They will be required to teach
:16:39. > :16:44.same-sex marriage similar to normal marriage. I know Michael Gove is
:16:44. > :16:49.keen to try to give as many protections in at as possible but
:16:49. > :16:53.there is arrest that teachers, who fundamentally disagree, may well
:16:53. > :17:00.find they are isolated and may well lose their jobs because of
:17:00. > :17:04.subsequent legislation overturning it in the European courts.
:17:04. > :17:09.Listening to Geoffrey, he represents a section of the
:17:09. > :17:15.Parliamentary Party. To what extent will this be a blow to the
:17:15. > :17:21.authority of David Cameron when around 180 MPs vote against? I hope
:17:21. > :17:26.more Conservative MPs supported than vote against it. I would like
:17:26. > :17:32.every Conservative MP to packet. 10 years ago, you would not see
:17:32. > :17:38.Conservatives proposing this type of thing. -- to back it. I hope
:17:38. > :17:45.that as many of my colleagues as possible will support the proposal.
:17:45. > :17:49.We know there could be about 150, 180 MPs who will vote against.
:17:49. > :17:54.would be very surprised if the numbers voting against are as high.
:17:54. > :18:00.I will not speculate on the figures. I hope more Conservative MPs would
:18:00. > :18:06.vote for it than Against. Is it a matter of strategy? Is it the
:18:06. > :18:11.climax to the detoxification of the Tory brand? As the strategy, I was
:18:11. > :18:16.so just it is not working as he intended. It is about promoting
:18:16. > :18:20.marriage. I hope the Government will quickly bring forward
:18:20. > :18:24.proposals in relations to tax allowances. I believe marriage is a
:18:24. > :18:28.key pillar of the society. Provided there is protection for faith
:18:28. > :18:32.groups who do not want to conduct these marriages, I want to see as
:18:33. > :18:38.many people as possible benefit. That is why legislation is a good
:18:38. > :18:42.thing. I do not want the Government to tummy if I am married or not.
:18:43. > :18:47.Promoting it by these policies, I think maybe I am more of a Liberal.
:18:47. > :18:53.I want to be a were to run my life how a one to arrive children to be
:18:53. > :19:00.educated in maths. Not whether marriage is a good thing for gay
:19:00. > :19:06.people or otherwise. You are adding to some extent to the perception
:19:06. > :19:09.which will only harm the prospects of the Tory Party. It is not an
:19:09. > :19:14.issue we brought to the table. David Cameron brought it to the
:19:14. > :19:18.table. There was no indication in his manifesto or mandate that he
:19:18. > :19:22.was going to bring into the table during his current government. I
:19:23. > :19:28.think he could handle the issue very much more carefully than he
:19:28. > :19:31.has done. He could have rolled the pitch, or laid the ground, during
:19:31. > :19:36.his current Parliament so that when you get to the next Parliament,
:19:36. > :19:40.they could have been a vote. Let the people decide. I would prefer
:19:40. > :19:46.there to be a referendum. If the majority of people and country are
:19:46. > :19:51.in favour of it, so be it and we accept that. We do not believe that
:19:52. > :19:57.David has a mandate for it in the current Parliament. Some people
:19:57. > :20:06.will say to their MPs, Conservative MPs, but they could look homophobic.
:20:06. > :20:11.What you say to that? That is very sad. -- what do you say to that? I
:20:11. > :20:17.have been very keen that the debate be conducted so that everyone has
:20:17. > :20:23.an equal view. Many of us have been criticised, prejudiced or bigoted.
:20:23. > :20:28.It is not about homophobia. It is about the institution of marriage.
:20:28. > :20:33.For many people, it is between a man and a woman. Thank you both for
:20:33. > :20:36.joining us. If someone lends you money, they have got a bit of a
:20:36. > :20:39.hold over you, and that applies as much to governments as it does to
:20:39. > :20:42.you and me. In the case of countries, they raise loans through
:20:42. > :20:45.bonds - a kind of IOU to investors which they promise eventually to
:20:45. > :20:48.repay - with interest, of course. As a consequence, governments of
:20:48. > :20:53.all stripes are very keen to keep the bond markets and the ratings
:20:53. > :20:55.agencies, who opine on a nation's creditworthiness, sweet. But has
:20:55. > :21:05.the current Chancellor, George Osborne, gone too far in his
:21:05. > :21:15.
:21:15. > :21:21.The trading floor of rubber bank in the City of London. Not as busy as
:21:21. > :21:24.they were in the boom but still powerful in the past. Men and women
:21:24. > :21:32.on trading floors like this throughout the world still have a
:21:32. > :21:36.huge impact on our Government's fiscal policy. That matters to
:21:36. > :21:40.every one of us. That is because some of them trade on the
:21:40. > :21:44.international bond market. That is massively important to the
:21:44. > :21:49.Government's handling of the economy. It has become powerful
:21:49. > :21:54.because of its huge size. Governments have deficits and these
:21:54. > :21:58.accumulate every year into a big debt, which needs to be financed.
:21:58. > :22:03.Investors buy the bonds. Because the market has become so huge,
:22:03. > :22:08.investors have a lot of power. reason British government bonds are
:22:08. > :22:12.so attractive is our AAA credit rating. George Osborne has tried
:22:12. > :22:18.super hard to make sure it stays that way but has it worked? Many
:22:18. > :22:25.people think that 20 their team will be the year that the UK loses
:22:25. > :22:29.its AAA rating. -- 2013. The Government has had to admitted his
:22:29. > :22:37.off-track at hitting a reduction targets. They are not as worried
:22:37. > :22:42.had it happened -- as had it happened three, four, and five
:22:42. > :22:51.years ago. Other countries have also lost theirs. Investors have
:22:51. > :22:57.become used to renew normal. Perhaps they have to become used to
:22:57. > :23:00.ratings being a bit lower. should not pay any attention to
:23:00. > :23:05.credit ratings agencies was that they have been completely
:23:05. > :23:13.discredited by their role in the financial crisis. It does not
:23:13. > :23:18.matter Warnock what they say about UK government debt or not. -- does
:23:18. > :23:24.not matter at all. It was unfortunate that government policy
:23:24. > :23:28.was dictated by credit agencies. It was a big mistake. It led us to
:23:28. > :23:33.tighten fiscal policy too quickly. The negative impact has been quite
:23:33. > :23:40.significant, as we know. Some MPs believe that if you do borrowed,
:23:40. > :23:46.you have to play by the Rules of the lenders. No one will like the
:23:46. > :23:48.credit agencies determining what democratic governments do. If
:23:48. > :23:52.democratic governments put themselves in the positions of
:23:52. > :23:57.borrowing at these fantastic rates, they will be subjected to the
:23:57. > :24:01.commercial decisions of rating agencies and markets. Can the
:24:01. > :24:09.Government escape the grip of the bond market and the ratings
:24:09. > :24:11.agencies? The Government should set out a long-term fiscal strategy.
:24:11. > :24:14.That should involve fiscal tightening - cutting spending and
:24:14. > :24:18.raising taxes over the medium to long term. We do need to balance
:24:18. > :24:22.the books. If we do that, the bond markets will take care of
:24:22. > :24:27.themselves and that will give us the freedom to run more sensible
:24:27. > :24:30.policies in the short term so we can get growth back into the
:24:30. > :24:34.economy. These guys may look too nice to be masters of the universe
:24:34. > :24:38.but for as long as governments borrowed, people like them will
:24:39. > :24:41.always have a big say in what they do. Joining me now is Brooks
:24:41. > :24:44.Newmark. He is a Conservative member of the Treasury Select
:24:44. > :24:47.Committee and used to be a senior partner at a private equity firm,
:24:47. > :24:54.Chris Leslie, the Shadow Financial Secretary. Louise Cooper, a city
:24:54. > :24:59.analyst, is still with us. How humiliating would it be for the UK
:24:59. > :25:03.to lose its AAA credit rating? would have said before the US had
:25:03. > :25:08.its downgrading and France had its downgrading, I certainly would have
:25:08. > :25:12.been very concerned. The evidence is at least that it actually has
:25:12. > :25:16.not had too much of an impact on the rate that people actually
:25:16. > :25:22.willing to pay for bonds. Psychologically it is important but
:25:22. > :25:26.the reality is, if it happens, I do not think there will be much of an
:25:26. > :25:33.impact. George Osborne exaggerated hugely the importance of keeping
:25:33. > :25:43.our AAA credit rating or the way from 2010 up until now? I do not
:25:43. > :25:43.
:25:43. > :25:49.think he exaggerated. I am St Ewe, the reality years... The evidence
:25:49. > :25:55.is it does not look like there will be much of an impact from investors.
:25:55. > :26:01.Politically and psychologically, it is important. The markets, in
:26:01. > :26:06.reality, I suspect, probably would not punish us as much as, for
:26:06. > :26:12.example, when we had the emergency budget. That there would have
:26:12. > :26:17.impacted us. Will the markets be kind to the UK if it loses its AAA
:26:17. > :26:21.credit rating? Because of quantitative easing, effectively
:26:21. > :26:26.because now the Government owns a third of its own debt, it is kind
:26:26. > :26:31.of irrelevant. We are seeing the Bank of England distorting the gilt
:26:31. > :26:35.market because it is buying so many gilts. That is what is pulling the
:26:35. > :26:39.interest rate down on British government debt. That is what is
:26:39. > :26:45.going on. That is not an indicator that the international investors
:26:45. > :26:52.are that convinced of the UK. By the way, gilt yields have actually
:26:52. > :26:55.been rising recently. As is happening in the US and Japan and
:26:55. > :26:59.elsewhere. George Osborne made such a big deal of keeping debt interest
:26:59. > :27:05.payments down. We're hearing, to some extent, interest payments will
:27:05. > :27:09.go up. It has only gone up marginally. The point I am making
:27:09. > :27:16.is, it is the actions of the Bank of England - distorting the gilt
:27:16. > :27:20.market - it is not a reality saying, the UK is a great and safe place.
:27:20. > :27:25.It is the Bank of England. This is an important point. For several
:27:25. > :27:29.years, the Chancellor has been saying his particular path of
:27:29. > :27:34.fiscal policy, the cuts agenda and austerity was the be-all and end-
:27:34. > :27:38.all when it came to the bond markets. I think that Louise is
:27:38. > :27:42.right. There are many more factors that come into play, particularly
:27:42. > :27:46.when the Bank of England get the printing presses going and are
:27:46. > :27:53.buying and purchasing so much of the nation's debts. Independent
:27:53. > :27:58.monetary policy is key to the driving force. Had it not happened,
:27:58. > :28:03.there would be a different set of drivers. The notion that George
:28:03. > :28:10.Osborne is saying, it does not matter what is going on with the
:28:10. > :28:15.AAA. It is important. Unilever won a general election claiming that it
:28:15. > :28:19.was all about defending the AAA rating and credibility and all
:28:19. > :28:24.these things. We never lost back under the last Labour government.
:28:24. > :28:28.Would we have lost it had the spending plan continued? Would we
:28:28. > :28:34.have lost it before quantitative easing and what they have judged
:28:34. > :28:40.that Britain was a dodgy place? Lots of factors come into this.
:28:40. > :28:44.Fiscal policy, monetary policy and also a growth. A lot of traders in
:28:44. > :28:48.the City want now to seek economies that have an engine to generate
:28:48. > :28:58.revenues so they can get back into balance. The deficit is going in
:28:58. > :28:58.
:28:58. > :29:04.the wrong direction. It was up 10% on there -- at the beginning of the
:29:04. > :29:08.year. The deficit is down by a quarter and is continuing to go
:29:08. > :29:12.down. We will talk about the deficit and the debt. The Prime
:29:12. > :29:17.Minister got himself into a little bit of trouble about paying down
:29:17. > :29:23.the debt. Also the issue about whether the economy is distorted.
:29:23. > :29:28.Are investors looking for evidence of gross? They are. The problem
:29:28. > :29:34.with quantitative easing - buying gilts - it mask the underlying
:29:34. > :29:38.problems. We call investors in gilts and double-deck that bond
:29:38. > :29:43.vigilantes. Why do we say that? They hold governments and
:29:43. > :29:47.politicians to account. They go through with a fine-tooth comb the
:29:47. > :29:52.economic data - the statistics coming out of government finance.
:29:52. > :29:57.As soon as they look horrid, they stop lending, or they demand a high
:29:58. > :30:03.interest rate. We hate those investors. Actually, in the capital
:30:03. > :30:06.world we live in, they occupy a very important place by holding
:30:06. > :30:09.governments and their financial statistics to account.
:30:09. > :30:14.Unfortunately, the problem with quantitative easing and what the
:30:14. > :30:18.Bank of England is doing, the power of those bond vigilantes has gone.
:30:19. > :30:22.It is about how much money the Bank of England will spend buying gilts.
:30:22. > :30:32.That takes pressure of the politicians to take the painful
:30:32. > :30:37.
:30:37. > :30:44.decisions that need making. I am not a big proponent of Q E.
:30:44. > :30:49.The first �200 billion was fined...! After the first �200
:30:49. > :30:54.billion, we should have stopped, we need to focus on issues such as
:30:54. > :30:59.building confidence, growth and so on. The real reality on the ground,
:30:59. > :31:05.as Chris knows, we have more men and women in work than ever before.
:31:05. > :31:09.GDP figures are important but we know it is as much of a Mystic Meg
:31:09. > :31:13.in terms of actually understanding the GDP figures. The real figures
:31:13. > :31:16.on the ground for ordinary people is whether they have a job. More
:31:16. > :31:22.men and women today have a job than ever before, that is what is
:31:22. > :31:26.important. Let's come to the debt and deficit figures, these two
:31:26. > :31:32.gentlemen arguing about whether the deficit last year has gone down,
:31:32. > :31:36.and debt, which is rising. I'm a simple girl, I like the absolute
:31:36. > :31:41.debt figures. Absolute debt, the amount the UK is indebted in
:31:41. > :31:50.entirety, has almost doubled in the last four years, and it would
:31:50. > :31:56.increase again. It has gone up from �811 billion to 1.1 trillion pounds
:31:56. > :32:06.while this government has been in power. It depends how you cut the
:32:06. > :32:10.figures. You are nodding... Yes, because Economics 101, which the
:32:10. > :32:17.Prime Minister was trying to teach the shadow Treasury Minister, debt
:32:17. > :32:22.is spending more than a you have coming in. He was told off! Just a
:32:23. > :32:26.second. Well you have a deficit you are adding to your debt. This last
:32:26. > :32:31.has a huge deficit. He would have continued spending more money than
:32:31. > :32:37.we have, the debt figures would be much late -- much larger under
:32:37. > :32:41.Labour. We have had a big speech from George Osborne, slightly
:32:41. > :32:46.overshadowed by what has happened with Chris Huhne. Louise Cooper, if
:32:46. > :32:53.a bank fails, if the investment arm of the bank fails, does that mean
:32:53. > :33:00.it will not drag its high-street be to -- its high-street titbit with
:33:00. > :33:05.it? He wants to ring-fence the supposedly safe banking from, and I
:33:05. > :33:09.hate this world -- I hate this word, the casino banking. How much
:33:09. > :33:14.outstanding mortgage debt do you think we have in this country?
:33:14. > :33:19.Anyone want to guess? 1.2 trillion pounds is the outstanding mortgage
:33:19. > :33:25.debt. It is more than the UK government debt. Any kind of
:33:25. > :33:29.property price fall further from here, any economic pain, you start
:33:29. > :33:34.to get bad loans on that mortgage debt. The losses are humongous. I
:33:34. > :33:38.don't get that retail banking is saved and investment banking is
:33:38. > :33:42.dangerous, and investment banks should be allowed to go to the wall.
:33:42. > :33:47.If you look at the balance sheets of the big banks today and you mark
:33:47. > :33:51.the assets on their portfolios, not just this country but particularly
:33:51. > :33:55.France or Spain, they are completely under water. Certainly
:33:55. > :33:59.the Spanish banks and big French banks. Our banks are getting their
:33:59. > :34:05.house in order, which is why ordinary people are finding it hard
:34:05. > :34:10.to get loans. The ring-fencing will not work, then. In the terms set
:34:10. > :34:14.out by George Osborne, this will mean we won't have a similar style
:34:14. > :34:21.crash that we experienced in 2008, that investment arms of banks will
:34:21. > :34:26.not be able to drag down retailers? The jury is still out on ring-
:34:26. > :34:31.fencing. This is one way of doing it, don't necessarily split them
:34:31. > :34:36.but keep in reserve, and this is crucial, just in case, the power to
:34:36. > :34:40.have full separation. He said, I will do the Reserve Bank by bank by
:34:40. > :34:45.bank, but what we need in reserve is a power to have that separation
:34:45. > :34:50.across the boards between retail and investment banking. If that is
:34:50. > :34:55.not there, this is a lawyer's charter for banks to contest one by
:34:55. > :34:59.one by one. If you're going to electrify it, and electrify it
:35:00. > :35:05.properly. He has only partially been forced to climb down,
:35:05. > :35:10.because... I want to deal with the toxic issue. The toxic issue of the
:35:10. > :35:16.banking, lots of it was, unfortunately, derivatives trading.
:35:16. > :35:21.Lots of the derivatives were being traded 200-1 in terms of the assets
:35:21. > :35:27.underlying those derivatives to what the market was trading. That
:35:27. > :35:32.is the dangerous part, wrapping up mortgages is a separate issue, it
:35:32. > :35:36.is an issue, but I think what we need there is more transparency in
:35:36. > :35:40.those pools of mortgages being wrapped up, so we understand the
:35:40. > :35:44.assets underlined in those Pools. But the real danger of trying to
:35:44. > :35:48.separate out his a proprietary trading of the investment banks,
:35:48. > :35:54.and the derivatives trading. Willetts make London less
:35:54. > :35:58.attractive as a financial centre? - - will it make London less
:35:58. > :36:03.attractive? If we do it in the UK and other places don't, we will
:36:03. > :36:07.lose out. The trouble is getting the regulation to happen all over
:36:07. > :36:13.the world. Lots of countries look at the City of London with covetous
:36:13. > :36:19.eyes, because it makes a loss of many in the good times. We can't
:36:19. > :36:23.have the taxpayer being on the club again for what happened when the
:36:23. > :36:29.banks over-extended themselves... That is why the leverage ratio... I
:36:29. > :36:33.don't think the Chancellor will put a clause in the Bill on that.
:36:33. > :36:38.so sorry, I have to say goodbye to you. And goodbye to my guest of the
:36:38. > :36:43.day, Louise coup before stop we have a busy week in politics ahead
:36:43. > :36:48.of us this week. The Right Reverend Justin Welby,
:36:48. > :36:53.the former Archbishop of Durham, has formally confirmed as the 105th
:36:53. > :36:57.Archbishop of Canterbury today at a ceremony at Canterbury Cathedral.
:36:57. > :37:02.There will be a lot of interest in his views on gay marriage, because
:37:02. > :37:05.MPs will vote on that issue for the first time tomorrow. Wednesday will
:37:05. > :37:08.see the publication of a landmark report into the failings leading to
:37:08. > :37:13.the deaths of dozens of people in the care of Mid Staffordshire NHS
:37:13. > :37:23.Foundation Trust. On Thursday the Prime Minister goes to Brussels for
:37:23. > :37:23.
:37:23. > :37:30.two-day talks on the future of the EU budget. Joining me from College
:37:30. > :37:34.Green up up a career from the Evening Standard and Ben Duckworth.
:37:34. > :37:38.But first, here is what the Liberal Democrat leader, Nick Clegg, said
:37:38. > :37:43.about Chris Huhne. Chris Huhne has pleaded guilty this morning and
:37:43. > :37:47.announced he will be standing down as an MP. This is obviously an
:37:47. > :37:50.extremely serious matter and it is essential that the legal process is
:37:50. > :37:54.now allowed to run its course. I am shocked and saddened by what has
:37:54. > :38:04.happened but I believe that Chris Huhne has taken the right decision
:38:04. > :38:09.in resigning as an MP. Nick Clegg, the leader of the Lib Dems.
:38:09. > :38:13.Pippa, what is your response to today's events with Chris Huhne?
:38:13. > :38:18.took us all by surprise. We have had weeks and weeks of self-
:38:18. > :38:23.confidence coming from both a man and his associates, I think we all
:38:23. > :38:27.expected a long week of it in the courts this week. Everyone is taken
:38:27. > :38:31.aback at Westminster, it is a huge story. The next step will be the by
:38:32. > :38:35.election, the first one which will have pitted the Conservatives
:38:35. > :38:40.against the Lib Dems in a really winnable seat since the election,
:38:40. > :38:44.so I think it will be gloves off. Ben Duckworth, this will be the
:38:44. > :38:49.first time Tories and Liberal Democrats are up against each other,
:38:49. > :38:53.coalition partners, since the government began? Yes, and the
:38:53. > :38:58.conservative MPs are baying for Lib Dem blood after they kiboshed the
:38:58. > :39:08.boundary changes last week. They will be looking to take a scalpel
:39:08. > :39:13.
:39:13. > :39:18.over their Lib Dem partners. -- a scalp from. Nigel Farage is making
:39:18. > :39:23.his way around the constituency, which is the area he is MEP for.
:39:23. > :39:28.For the Lib Dems, depending on how Chris Huhne is sentenced, they have
:39:28. > :39:35.to recover from that and the test is whether they will be able to
:39:35. > :39:40.hold the seat. Nigel Farage has not ruled himself out. Pepper, in terms
:39:40. > :39:45.of the loss for the Lib Dems, how do you gauge Chris Huhne's
:39:45. > :39:49.departure? He was a heavy hitter for a party which is lacking in
:39:49. > :39:53.them. Had he been acquitted and come back into mainstream politics,
:39:53. > :39:57.he would probably have ended up in Parliament again and would have
:39:57. > :40:01.been a leading contender for the leadership after the election,
:40:01. > :40:06.should Nick Clegg stand down. Nick Clegg may be privately relieved
:40:06. > :40:11.that he is no longer around to oppose that threat, leaving Vince
:40:11. > :40:16.Cable the main leader in waiting for the Lib Dems. If we move on to
:40:16. > :40:20.the issue of Europe, never far away, Ben, and we have these two-day
:40:20. > :40:25.talks on the future of the EU budget, is there any good feeling
:40:25. > :40:28.left from David Cameron's speech on the in-out referendum? It had a
:40:28. > :40:33.very short honeymoon indeed, particularly with the gay marriage
:40:33. > :40:36.vote tomorrow, I think there will be a sense of a renewed and even
:40:36. > :40:41.strong expectation from Conservative MPs that it has to be
:40:41. > :40:44.something symbolic from these two days at the end of the week, where
:40:44. > :40:48.David Cameron goes to Europe and basically sticks its European
:40:48. > :40:53.counterparts. For David Cameron, I think he needs something symbolic,
:40:53. > :40:57.whether it is a supportive gesture or quotes from Angela Merkel,
:40:57. > :41:01.something which shows that after the speech he is being taken
:41:01. > :41:04.seriously on that stage, and the idea of Britain being able to come
:41:04. > :41:08.to a new settlement is a possibility. If it will be
:41:08. > :41:13.difficult to get any kind of concession? It is a huge problem,
:41:13. > :41:17.he has 26 EU leaders to persuade and inevitably he will have to tone
:41:17. > :41:21.down his rhetoric in private conversations with them. If that
:41:21. > :41:27.feeds back into Britain and Westminster, the Euro phobic wing
:41:27. > :41:32.of his party which so far has reached some sort of accords with
:41:32. > :41:37.the Prime Minister since his speech will be at it again, they will be
:41:37. > :41:41.snapping at his heels and desperate for concessions. He has said there
:41:41. > :41:45.will be a referendum but he is not legislating for it in this
:41:45. > :41:50.Parliament, and there will be a lot of pressure for him to do that.
:41:50. > :41:55.Joining us now is our Monday panel of MPs, Conservative Alan paints,
:41:56. > :42:00.Anas Sarwar wire of Labour and a Liberal Democrat, who drew the
:42:00. > :42:06.short straw on the day that Chris Huhne charged -- changed his plea,
:42:06. > :42:12.Tessa Munt. What is your reaction? I am amazingly shocked. Chris has
:42:13. > :42:17.had a very long career both in Westminster and as an MEP, he has
:42:17. > :42:23.been a fantastic constituency MP. I am stunned. I heard the news on the
:42:23. > :42:28.way you this morning. His political career is over? I think so. He has
:42:28. > :42:32.finished it himself, which is the right thing to do, no question.
:42:32. > :42:38.heard Nick Clegg saying he is shocked and saddened. We all are.
:42:38. > :42:46.Nobody had any idea this was coming. It is very shocking. We need to try
:42:46. > :42:49.to look forward, I suppose, from the mess that there is here and see
:42:49. > :42:55.if we can ensure that the people of Eastleigh have another good
:42:55. > :42:59.constituency MP. Let's think ahead to the by-election, an opportunity
:42:59. > :43:04.for the Conservatives? I'm sorry for Chris Huhne, he has taken the
:43:04. > :43:08.right course of action. The press were predicting that the CPS might
:43:08. > :43:12.drop their case just a few weeks ago. The by-election will be
:43:12. > :43:18.extremely interesting, it is a Lib Dem/Conservative battle with the
:43:18. > :43:23.Labour Party a bit further behind, but when there is a low its -- a
:43:23. > :43:28.low turnout, anything can happen. I am confident we will take the fight
:43:28. > :43:35.to the Lib Dems and Labour. How do you rate your chances? If people
:43:35. > :43:39.look at what Chris did for his constituency in Eastleigh, I think
:43:39. > :43:45.they will look to a Liberal Democrat MP again. It is deeply
:43:45. > :43:53.saddening what has happened today, but he has been fantastic. He did
:43:53. > :43:56.some very good things as a cabinet minister. But on policy grounds
:43:56. > :44:01.come I suspect the people of Eastleigh would be more inclined to
:44:01. > :44:07.be conservative thinking, as a result of the changes made? Do you
:44:07. > :44:14.not feel let down by Chris Huhne over this? And his constituents
:44:14. > :44:20.etc? I would be mad to say they didn't feel that. But it will be a
:44:21. > :44:27.different candidate, different circumstances, lots of chaos. There
:44:27. > :44:33.will be lots of things coming into play and we have to see what
:44:33. > :44:40.happens, but he has pleaded guilty. You won't be that involved in the
:44:40. > :44:44.by-election? The Labour Party? Nobody revels in the personal grief
:44:44. > :44:48.of anybody, so our sympathy is with Chris and his family. It is
:44:48. > :44:52.interesting that the coalition are already arguing about the by-
:44:52. > :44:57.election, although not surprising. The Prime Minister had the grief of
:44:57. > :45:01.his party being torn apart around the EU issue, then there was the
:45:01. > :45:05.referendum issue this week to try to oust the Prime Minister, now the
:45:05. > :45:08.coalition are fighting a by- election. I think the Prime
:45:08. > :45:12.Minister and Deputy Prime Minister will be worried today. I am not
:45:12. > :45:17.sure what he is talking about when the Prime Minister walked in after
:45:17. > :45:21.his speech on Europe, he was received with the warmest
:45:21. > :45:23.recognition and applause he has ever been in the Times that I have
:45:24. > :45:33.been in the Commons. I don't understand what you mean about
:45:34. > :45:42.
:45:42. > :45:48.being torn apart. Why are there I have heard of things but I think
:45:48. > :45:52.the reality is it is pipe dreams trying to ascertain what sort of
:45:52. > :45:57.support there might be. The reality is there is no support for a
:45:57. > :46:02.challenge to the Prime Minister. He is there and doing a very good job
:46:02. > :46:06.in very difficult circumstances. I would bet my life he will be the
:46:06. > :46:11.leader of the Conservative Party coming up to the next election.
:46:11. > :46:14.What is driving these plots? If you say there is nothing in them and
:46:14. > :46:18.their support to challenge the leadership of David Cameron, how
:46:18. > :46:24.can you say that so categorically when there are plots being talked
:46:24. > :46:28.about and they are all over the papers? I remember the plots about
:46:28. > :46:34.Gordon Brown and Tony Blair but they never came to anything. Some
:46:34. > :46:41.individuals feel they should be in government. It is probably down to
:46:41. > :46:46.personalities. What is driving it? Egos is fine. Is there a
:46:46. > :46:51.satisfaction with David Cameron on the backbenches? I do not take that
:46:51. > :46:58.battle. A few weeks ago, when he came in after his speech on Europe,
:46:58. > :47:03.the applause and the noise was louder than it has ever been before
:47:03. > :47:07.in recognition of what he had done. The important point is David
:47:07. > :47:11.Cameron making a speech on Europe was not acting in the interests of
:47:11. > :47:14.the country. At a time when you have an economic storm, rather
:47:14. > :47:18.having a government and Prime Minister to pull the country
:47:18. > :47:25.together, you have a political party pulling itself apart. Why is
:47:25. > :47:30.it not in the interests of the country? If it was in interests, it
:47:30. > :47:40.would be held now. It is a ploy and a waiter tried to win the next
:47:40. > :47:41.
:47:41. > :47:45.election, to appease backbenchers. -- a way to try to win. The Prime
:47:46. > :47:48.Minister's demonstration of putting the country's interest first is
:47:48. > :47:54.demonstrated in coming together with the Lib Dems in the interests
:47:54. > :48:01.of the country. That proves he puts the country before party politics.
:48:01. > :48:09.Do you believe it is in the interest of the to have the
:48:09. > :48:15.election -- the interests of the country to have the referendum?
:48:15. > :48:19.is entirely up to them. What would you like to see? There are a lot of
:48:19. > :48:24.people who would like to build to answer a question. It is important
:48:24. > :48:27.to understand what that means. There are huge numbers of
:48:27. > :48:34.businesses and farmers in my area. The last thing they want is to pull
:48:34. > :48:37.out of Europe. What I think is quite interesting is, since the
:48:37. > :48:41.Prime Minister has spoken on the subject, quite a lot of
:48:41. > :48:45.organisations have come out in favour of staying in Europe. They
:48:45. > :48:52.are clear about the fact they do not want to rock the boat at this
:48:52. > :48:58.stage. So much about income, lots of farming takes place and
:48:58. > :49:04.associated business. The Lib Dems wanted 10 in/out referendum.
:49:04. > :49:09.need to make sure people realise what that will mean on a day-by-day
:49:09. > :49:13.basis. People need to understand exactly what the impact is in the
:49:13. > :49:17.case of the Scottish referendum. you agree with most of what David
:49:17. > :49:21.Cameron said in his speech? It seemed to give an impression of
:49:21. > :49:26.being behind the EU are wanting to keep a central role in the European
:49:26. > :49:33.Union in the feature and reforming our relationship with the European
:49:33. > :49:40.Union? -- in the future. Absolutely. That would be my personal position.
:49:40. > :49:47.We do not the door Europe. We think it is a sensible business
:49:47. > :49:52.arrangement. -- knocked the door Europe. A friend of mine, who used
:49:52. > :49:56.to be an MEP, he has actually put together 10 things he would change
:49:56. > :50:00.about the EU. There are things we need to straighten out and make
:50:00. > :50:07.sure it works better for us. It is pointless sitting outside of Europe
:50:07. > :50:16.and hoping. It is a risk, isn't it? We have the eurozone. They will
:50:16. > :50:21.need to come closer together. There were need to be treaties. -- there
:50:21. > :50:26.will need. This is an opportunity for Britain to reshape Europe that
:50:26. > :50:33.we want to be part of. It will give him the opportunity to renegotiate,
:50:33. > :50:40.as Europe changes itself. Labour will be given the chance to offer a
:50:40. > :50:45.referendum just before the next election, I would guess? 50% of the
:50:45. > :50:49.Business the UK does is with other EU countries. Just as 50% of the
:50:49. > :50:53.business that Scotland has is with the EU. What would be better would
:50:53. > :50:59.be if the Prime Minister would have a meaningful negotiation and a
:50:59. > :51:03.meaningful discussion about what membership of the EU means. He is
:51:03. > :51:08.playing for his cards. If he does not get the right deal, will he
:51:08. > :51:13.come out of Europe? Is that his plan? Do you think he should
:51:13. > :51:18.campaign to come out? Let's see what the Delia's. There was the
:51:18. > :51:22.Swedish Prime Minister, the Danish Prime Minister, who has absolutely
:51:22. > :51:27.understood what the Prime Minister was talking about. -- who
:51:27. > :51:31.absolutely understood. David Cameron is talking about further
:51:31. > :51:35.opt-outs. They are the sorts of things that other European nations
:51:35. > :51:41.have said, we are not going to agree to that. It is negotiation.
:51:41. > :51:47.That is why Benny's to be time for it. We need to develop allies on
:51:47. > :51:50.Denmark and Sweden, as many as the leaders have also shown sympathy
:51:50. > :51:53.towards. Now, Prime Ministers Question Time. We watch it
:51:53. > :51:56.religiously on the Daily Politics but what do we really learn from
:51:56. > :51:59.it? The half-hour session gives Members of Parliament the chance to
:51:59. > :52:02.hold the person in charge to account. But MPs on all sides are
:52:02. > :52:07.widely derided for their childish behaviour, which many say is
:52:07. > :52:17.putting the public off politics altogether. The Speaker John Bercow
:52:17. > :52:19.
:52:19. > :52:29.seems to have lost patience and says the decibel level exceeds
:52:29. > :52:30.
:52:30. > :52:34.anything that Deep Purple would have exceeded! You are a
:52:34. > :52:39.distinguished practising barrister will start you would not have
:52:39. > :52:45.behaved like that in the courts. Do not behave like that in this
:52:46. > :52:55.chamber. Calm yourself and be quiet. The decibel level is far too high.
:52:56. > :53:09.
:53:09. > :53:19.What a savage indictment of this I can see he enjoyed that. Order!
:53:19. > :53:19.
:53:19. > :53:25.Order! Order! Order! Order, I say to the Children's Minister, tried
:53:25. > :53:35.to calm down and behave like an adult. If you cannot - if it is
:53:35. > :53:38.
:53:38. > :53:44.beyond you - leave the chamber. Get Do you ever get used to that racket
:53:44. > :53:50.in the House of Commons? No. I think it is absolutely awful.
:53:50. > :53:53.Completely unnecessary. We could take a good leaf out of the Book of
:53:53. > :54:03.most of the councils in this country when you can be heard and
:54:03. > :54:03.
:54:03. > :54:07.had your chance to have your say. Frankly, I just find it... It is
:54:07. > :54:12.ludicrous. On occasions, I have been asked on one of your sister
:54:12. > :54:17.programmes to comment on Prime Minister's Questions. I have gone
:54:17. > :54:22.to the studio at 1pm. If I sit in the chamber, I cannot hear the
:54:22. > :54:26.questions, not the answers. If you go outside and listen on the radio
:54:26. > :54:32.or television, you can hear what is going on. In the chamber, you have
:54:32. > :54:42.to sit back and listen through the speakers. That does sound rather
:54:42. > :54:42.
:54:42. > :54:46.pointless, doesn't it? I am showing my age! I do not know about Deep
:54:46. > :54:51.Purple. I think it is the theatre of little. Those within the
:54:51. > :54:54.political class probably do enjoy it. Those looking from outside will
:54:54. > :54:58.probably think it is a bunch of middle-aged men shouting at each
:54:58. > :55:04.other and not discussing things that are relevant to their lives
:55:04. > :55:09.every single day. It is entertaining. We were all laughing
:55:09. > :55:15.when we were watching that. Does it attract some people to the holes
:55:15. > :55:21.Theatre Of It All? You could argue it is the only time in the week
:55:21. > :55:24.that the chamber is jam-packed. With Prime Minister's Questions,
:55:24. > :55:27.people do not realise and appreciate about it. The Prime
:55:28. > :55:31.Minister has said, it is the one time a week that he gets to know
:55:31. > :55:34.everything that is going on in every department. If something is
:55:34. > :55:41.going wrong and has not been brought to his attention and there
:55:41. > :55:48.is a risk of it being brought up at Prime Minister's Questions, he
:55:48. > :55:52.wants to know. There is a need for it. If you are the leader of the
:55:52. > :55:57.opposition, or if you are the Prime Minister, standing there and it is
:55:57. > :56:02.absolute silence behind you, it is a very lonely place, I can imagine.
:56:02. > :56:06.Some of the noise is about support to back your leader, saying he or
:56:06. > :56:12.she is doing the right thing. no good if you cannot hear what is
:56:12. > :56:16.going on. The whole point is, as we said in the introduction, to hold
:56:16. > :56:22.the executive to account. Can you hold the executive to account in
:56:22. > :56:29.Prime Minister's Questions? I think not. The media is partly to blame
:56:29. > :56:38.on this. Depending on the noise and the one-liners it impacts on how
:56:38. > :56:43.could a writing you get I am not. You get. You cannot hear most of
:56:43. > :56:49.the questions are almost of the answers. People want a genuine
:56:49. > :56:55.cross-examination of the Government. That does not happen at Prime
:56:55. > :57:01.Minister's Questions. There should be real questions. Patsy questions
:57:01. > :57:06.should go, shouldn't they? you're going to hold someone to
:57:06. > :57:10.recant, do it. One thing I would say is on that particular occasion,
:57:10. > :57:15.what you do get is a sense of the quick-witted miss of some people
:57:15. > :57:19.who perform. That is a delight. Sometimes I cannot stop but not
:57:19. > :57:23.because someone has said something very funny. The humour of the
:57:23. > :57:27.situation is very good. When people can react like that under extreme
:57:27. > :57:33.pressure, that is fantastic. That goes for every Question Time that
:57:33. > :57:36.we have at the beginning of every day and not just Prime Minister's
:57:36. > :57:44.Questions. Nick Clegg is not involved in the Prime Minister's
:57:44. > :57:49.Question combat. What is it like? It is not the same. Wouldn't it be
:57:49. > :57:53.nice? There are only 57 of us. We cannot rule the world. It is
:57:53. > :57:57.important for people to understand that Prime Minister's Questions is
:57:57. > :58:01.only that one session of the week. Most of the other questions offer
:58:01. > :58:04.much better scrutiny. Coming back to Prime Minister's Questions, if
:58:04. > :58:09.there is that killer question exposing something the Prime
:58:09. > :58:12.Minister does not know, it really does serve a purpose. We have not
:58:12. > :58:18.had that in recent times was a nothing that jumps to my mind
:58:18. > :58:22.whether Prime Minister has been exposed. -- in recent times. That
:58:22. > :58:28.is the scrutiny that is offered the stub the Prime Minister is accused
:58:28. > :58:34.of not answering questions put to him. -- that is offered. Sometimes
:58:34. > :58:38.questions from his own side are more tricky. Sometimes members of
:58:38. > :58:43.the coalition are not prepared to accept the political reality.
:58:43. > :58:50.partly the noise, not answering the question and sometimes people
:58:50. > :58:54.showed their childish side and get angry. I do not think that projects