06/02/2013

:00:39. > :00:43.Morning, folks. This is the Daily Politics. They have been arguing

:00:43. > :00:47.about it all week. Last night, MPs voted to allow gay men and women to

:00:47. > :00:50.get married. So is that the end of the story? Or will those who

:00:50. > :00:54.disagree fight on in the committee stages and the House of Lords?

:00:54. > :00:57.What went wrong with our health service in Staffordshire? We know

:00:57. > :01:01.that thousands of patients received appalling standards of care.

:01:01. > :01:06.Hundreds died. Why? We will bring you the results of the official

:01:06. > :01:12.investigation. We meet the man who wants to rip up

:01:12. > :01:16.the rules about building houses and see an end to buy-to-let landlords.

:01:16. > :01:19.The decibel level is far too high. The Prime Minister should not have

:01:19. > :01:23.to shout. Just how noisy is the Chamber

:01:23. > :01:28.during PMQs? We will have the results of a special Daily Politics

:01:28. > :01:31.experiment to find out. All that in the next hour and a

:01:31. > :01:34.half. Joining us for the duration, Business Minister Michael Fallon

:01:34. > :01:40.and Shadow Justice Secretary Sadiq Khan.

:01:40. > :01:43.But first - the big vote last night. If you have been watching the Daily

:01:43. > :01:49.Politics this week, you will know that MPs on both sides of the House

:01:49. > :01:52.have deeply held beliefs about gay marriage. David Cameron has always

:01:52. > :01:57.said that he believes people should be able to marry their same-sex

:01:57. > :02:02.partners, not despite being a Tory, but because he is a Tory. Which has

:02:02. > :02:05.not quite convinced a major chunk of the Tory party. Last night when

:02:05. > :02:11.MPs had their first vote on the issue, more Tory backbenchers voted

:02:11. > :02:16.against than for it, and a large number abstained.

:02:16. > :02:20.This bill is about one thing. It is about fairness, it is about giving

:02:20. > :02:25.those who want to get married the opportunity to do so whilst

:02:25. > :02:31.protecting the rights of those who do not agree with same-sex marriage.

:02:31. > :02:36.The definition of marriage is based on the definition of sex. In the

:02:36. > :02:43.19th and did three Act, it is impossible, absolutely impossible,

:02:43. > :02:49.to shoehorn in same-sex marriage and to provide equality -- 1973 Act.

:02:49. > :02:53.We have discriminated against Catholics, women, people from

:02:53. > :02:59.ethnic minorities, but very gradually, not always completely

:02:59. > :03:04.but perceptibly, this House has passed legislation to remove such

:03:04. > :03:08.discrimination. Is this not another example to do so? Are the marriages

:03:08. > :03:11.of millions of straight people about to be threatened because a

:03:11. > :03:17.few thousand gay people are permitted to join? What will they

:03:17. > :03:23.say? Our marriage is over, Sir Elton John has just got engaged to

:03:23. > :03:29.David Furnish. If the government is serious about this, take it away,

:03:29. > :03:34.or abolish the civil partnerships Bill, abolish civil marriage, and

:03:34. > :03:39.create a civil union bill that applies to all people, irrespective

:03:39. > :03:43.of their sexuality or relationships, and that means brothers and

:03:43. > :03:48.brothers and sisters and sisters and brothers and sisters.

:03:48. > :03:54.cheeses are I know was born illegitimate, a refugee, with eight

:03:54. > :04:02.death warrant on his name -- cheeses that I know. That is why it

:04:02. > :04:05.is right for those to vote on this bill -- Jesus I know.

:04:05. > :04:10.Well in the end, there was a huge Parliamentary majority in favour of

:04:10. > :04:14.gay marriage on this, the first vote on the matter. David Cameron,

:04:14. > :04:17.Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg all voted in favour. But 136

:04:17. > :04:21.Conservatives, 22 Labour and four Lib Dem MPs did not follow their

:04:21. > :04:25.leaders into the division lobbies on a free vote. Michael Fallon was

:04:25. > :04:30.one of them. Why could David Cameron not persuade you? It was a

:04:30. > :04:35.free vote, it was not political. That is the point of the a free

:04:35. > :04:40.vote. It is up for each member and Minister to vote according to their

:04:40. > :04:45.own conscience. But he spoke openly and consistently in favour of gay

:04:45. > :04:50.marriage, wanting to encourage as many Conservative MPs to follow him.

:04:50. > :04:55.What was it about the issue that could not persuade you? You would

:04:55. > :04:59.have been pretty scornful to announce a free vote and then 95%

:04:59. > :05:04.of Conservative MPs went into the lobby behind him. But David Cameron

:05:04. > :05:09.will be disappointed. There are divisions in the party about this

:05:09. > :05:13.and in the country. If you are coming to redefine one of the

:05:13. > :05:18.central institutions in society, you probably need to do so on the

:05:18. > :05:21.basis of a lot more concerned than exists at the moment. But the

:05:21. > :05:26.majority of people in parliament voted the other way, I was wrong,

:05:26. > :05:31.and we have to accept that. Do you think people in your party who

:05:31. > :05:36.voted in favour listened to you and your colleagues concerned? Yes, we

:05:36. > :05:41.had a passionate e-mails from each side and if I may say so I think

:05:41. > :05:45.the debate yesterday should parliament at its best. Some very

:05:45. > :05:50.powerful speeches on both sides. I think a reasonable amount of

:05:50. > :05:54.respect from each side. You do? Some people clearly feel very

:05:54. > :05:58.strongly that we should not discriminate against gay people.

:05:58. > :06:03.Other people think there is something special about marriage

:06:03. > :06:11.that needs to be protected. But it is not over yet. This does not mean

:06:11. > :06:17.that a gay couple can go out next weekend and get married. No. I am

:06:17. > :06:24.pleased that society can recognise love and relationships. The entire

:06:24. > :06:28.Shadow Cabinet had a free vote and 85% voted in favour. It has to go

:06:28. > :06:31.to committee upstairs, then it comes to report stage and a third

:06:32. > :06:36.reading and then it will go to the House of Lords, so it will be a

:06:36. > :06:39.number of months before it is finally through parliament. What

:06:39. > :06:44.will happen a lot in the parliamentary road? Will you and

:06:44. > :06:50.your colleagues tried to amend the bill? Or your colleagues in the

:06:50. > :06:54.House of Lords? I certainly won't. It was a massive majority, as Sadiq

:06:54. > :06:59.Khan has said. We have to respect the view of the House of Commons.

:06:59. > :07:04.Maybe other colleagues will quibble about the details of the

:07:04. > :07:09.legislation. It is important that the protections for the Church are

:07:10. > :07:14.robust and violet. Then, don't forget, there is a second phase in

:07:14. > :07:17.parliament -- robust and valid. The Commons has spoke and I think those

:07:17. > :07:22.of us to oppose the bill need to respect the majority who were in

:07:22. > :07:27.favour. The do you think there will be any attempts to amend the bill

:07:27. > :07:31.in the House of Lords? I am sure there will be attempts to amend it,

:07:31. > :07:37.just like you have people bringing frivolous cases in the future that

:07:37. > :07:41.will not succeed. The key thing is to try to have as many mechanisms

:07:41. > :07:45.in the bill to respect religious freedom, article 9 in the European

:07:45. > :07:50.Convention. We need to make sure that there is faith groups are

:07:50. > :07:56.protected from their believes not being compromised. On that issue,

:07:56. > :08:00.you spoke of protections. As a Muslim, did you come under any

:08:00. > :08:07.pressure from Muslim faith groups to say, the Sadiq Khan, don't vote

:08:07. > :08:14.for this? I am an MP who is Muslim rather than a Muslim MP. Might

:08:14. > :08:23.consist it -- constituents are Catholics, Jewish people, Anglicans,

:08:23. > :08:28.Methodists, Hindu... I had communication from all sides. On

:08:28. > :08:33.all issues, not just this one. Should David Cameron have spoken in

:08:33. > :08:38.this debate, bearing in mind he has said such a lot about this issue?

:08:38. > :08:42.You are suggesting he should have been trying to bully his own

:08:42. > :08:47.ministers and members into following into the lobby. Would we

:08:47. > :08:50.not have expected to have heard from him? If you are the leader of

:08:50. > :08:55.the party and you have made this famous quotes of saying, I support

:08:55. > :09:01.gay rights because I am a Tory. He might have wanted to emphasise that

:09:01. > :09:07.during the debate or even listened to it? I think it is to his credit

:09:07. > :09:11.that he did not make this a party issue. There will be people who on

:09:11. > :09:16.matters of conscience would expect that from parliament. I don't think

:09:17. > :09:20.it would have sweet individual members and ministers for us. --

:09:20. > :09:28.would have swayed. People have very strong views on this. I don't think

:09:28. > :09:33.it would have made that much difference. Thank you.

:09:33. > :09:37.While we were talking we are just getting word of what is in the

:09:37. > :09:46.Francis report into the scandal of what happened in their mid-

:09:46. > :09:53.Staffordshire Hospital Trust in 2005 up to 2008. We understand the

:09:53. > :09:57.report calls for zero tolerance to poor standards of care. He says

:09:57. > :10:04.hospitals which failed to comply with this fundamental standard

:10:04. > :10:10.should be forced to close. He has made 290 sweeping recommendations

:10:10. > :10:14.for health care regulators and possibly a hospital inspectorate.

:10:14. > :10:18.He attacks the local health authorities and the trust board

:10:18. > :10:22.although he does not name any one individual and organisation for

:10:22. > :10:30.what he describes as the disaster at Stafford Hospital. If you

:10:30. > :10:37.remember, between 401,200 people died and at this hospital's trust

:10:37. > :10:42.care -- between 400 people and 1200 people died. The patients were

:10:42. > :10:46.forced to drink water from vases, lying in their own excrement,

:10:46. > :10:51.relatives forced to come in to look after them themselves. A long-

:10:51. > :10:54.running scandal in the NHS. We are just getting the report now. We

:10:54. > :10:58.will bring more as we get it and of course a statement by the Prime

:10:59. > :11:02.Minister to the Commons at 12:30pm. We will bring you that statement

:11:02. > :11:08.and reaction to it. Jo has the background.

:11:08. > :11:11.The yes. The public inquiry has investigated

:11:11. > :11:16.how managers and those charged with overseeing the NHS failed to do

:11:16. > :11:18.anything about the failings at Mid Staffordshire NHS Trust. In 2009

:11:18. > :11:21.the Healthcare Commission, the predecessor of the current Care

:11:21. > :11:24.Quality Commission, reported that at least 400 more patients died at

:11:24. > :11:31.Stafford Hospital between 2005 and 2009 than would have been expected,

:11:31. > :11:34.as a result of what it called That led to the government setting

:11:34. > :11:38.up an independent inquiry, chaired by Robert Francis QC, which looked

:11:38. > :11:43.at what went wrong more closely. So in 2010 he reported shocking

:11:43. > :11:47.details of how patients had been mistreated. There was a wholly

:11:47. > :11:50.unacceptable standard of hygiene, and deficient food. He also found

:11:50. > :11:54.there had been a chronic shortage of staff and that nurses had often

:11:54. > :11:57.been dismissive and uncaring. Robert Francis's second inquiry,

:11:57. > :12:00.which is what we are getting today, looks at the failures of management,

:12:00. > :12:07.oversight and regulation and will recommend changes to the structure

:12:07. > :12:12.of how NHS hospitals are monitored. The government has said it already

:12:12. > :12:16.wants a new duty of candour. Hospitals which tried to cover up

:12:17. > :12:19.bad care could be fined or even shut down. Francis is also likely

:12:19. > :12:23.to recommend establishing a new post of chief inspector of

:12:23. > :12:26.hospitals for England. And many here at Westminster will be looking

:12:26. > :12:30.at what he says closely to see if there is any criticism that can be

:12:30. > :12:35.laid at the door of the previous Labour government.

:12:35. > :12:45.The report is being published around now. For the latest, we are

:12:45. > :12:46.

:12:46. > :12:51.joined by Phil Mackie from outside We already know from the previous

:12:51. > :12:59.reports just how shocking big hair was that went on here between 2005

:12:59. > :13:08.and 2009 -- just how shocking the care was. I spoke to a woman whose

:13:08. > :13:13.daughter was complaining for 18 months of stomach pains. She picked

:13:13. > :13:19.up so many different infections, C difficile and MRSA, it eventually

:13:19. > :13:24.killed her. That lady said she did not want heads to roll. She wanted

:13:24. > :13:28.reform to the NHS. That is what it is hoped the Francis report will

:13:28. > :13:32.bring for the many campaigners who have been hoping for various things,

:13:32. > :13:38.including allowing whistle-blow was more freedom to speak out, stopping

:13:38. > :13:43.gagging clauses, paying more attention to patients, and

:13:43. > :13:47.admitting more openly when things go wrong. But fundamentally to

:13:47. > :13:51.start at basic levels of care. Things that went on at Stafford

:13:51. > :13:56.Hospital were going on elsewhere in the country and probably still are.

:13:56. > :14:02.That is acknowledged in this report. This is why the report is seen as

:14:02. > :14:08.being so significant. We are just getting more from this report on

:14:08. > :14:13.the Mid Staffordshire Hospital NHS Trust. Fundamental rights denied,

:14:13. > :14:18.appalling and unnecessary suffering, lack of care, compassion, humanity

:14:18. > :14:23.and leadership. The words of Francis QC, who has

:14:23. > :14:26.led this latest report. His second report into what happened.

:14:26. > :14:28.We are joined by Mike Farrar, the chief executive of the NHS

:14:28. > :14:38.Confederation, which represents hospitals and other organisations

:14:38. > :14:48.

:14:48. > :14:52.This is probably the worst record of care in the NHS since it was

:14:52. > :14:59.founded in the 1940s. Why have there been no criminal charges, no

:14:59. > :15:03.sackings, nobody struck off by the GMC? I would echo your view that

:15:03. > :15:07.this is one of the worst days in the NHS's history. As somebody who

:15:07. > :15:10.came into the service to do good things, I'm ashamed of what

:15:10. > :15:14.happened in Staffordshire. The actions against individuals of

:15:14. > :15:19.other regulatory bodies. Robert Francis is going to look at how

:15:19. > :15:24.this regulatory bodies are working. Why have there been between 400 to

:15:24. > :15:31.1200 people died, were killed in effect, because of inadequate care?

:15:31. > :15:35.At the very most, at the very least, institutional manslaughter. Why

:15:35. > :15:40.have there been no criminal charges? It's really a question of

:15:40. > :15:43.what the regulatory regime allows us to do. I'm very interested in

:15:43. > :15:46.not just what punitive action and accountability needs to be taken

:15:46. > :15:50.for what happened, I'm really thinking of the way in which the

:15:50. > :15:54.patient that your correspondent mentioned said what we need to do

:15:54. > :15:57.was make sure this doesn't happen again. I know that's what you want

:15:57. > :16:03.to talk about, but let's look at what has happened. Why have only

:16:03. > :16:09.three of the doctors involved, why have only three been called now

:16:09. > :16:14.before the General Medical Council on fitness to practise? Why has

:16:14. > :16:18.nobody been struck off? I don't represent the General Medical

:16:18. > :16:21.Council's views. I think they have to think very seriously about this.

:16:21. > :16:26.If they want to reassure the public that they can have confidence in

:16:26. > :16:32.the NHS, then they need to take action, if appropriate, they need

:16:32. > :16:35.to act. It is for them to determine. Why is it the case that the chief

:16:35. > :16:39.executive of this hospital, who was in charge at the time and appointed

:16:39. > :16:45.by the man who is now the chief executive of the NHS, he left with

:16:45. > :16:50.a pay-off and now has another job in the health industry - why?

:16:50. > :16:53.is a big issue for Ross. People who are deemed to have been failing to

:16:53. > :16:57.the extent where they have not upheld the values of the health

:16:57. > :17:01.service, we shouldn't have a system whereby people are working again.

:17:01. > :17:05.But there are many cases where understanding what went wrong is a

:17:05. > :17:10.question of helping people explained and trying to put things

:17:10. > :17:14.right. You know as well as I do that rather than criminal charges

:17:14. > :17:17.and people being struck off, most of the people involved in the mid-

:17:17. > :17:25.Staffs spag bol have either taken pay-offs and disappeared or been

:17:25. > :17:30.moved around the NHS. Do you accept that it is perfectly possible,

:17:30. > :17:34.perhaps not in the grand, horrific scale of made it Staffs, that what

:17:34. > :17:39.happened there is happening now and other hospitals? I do believe it's

:17:40. > :17:43.lessons, we've got to think this is not just about one hospital. I

:17:43. > :17:47.don't think it's widespread and I don't think it's on anything like

:17:47. > :17:50.the scale. But there are issues in other hospitals where the culture

:17:50. > :17:53.of those organisations is the kind of thing we saw in mid-

:17:54. > :17:59.Staffordshire. What we need to do today is absolutely learn these

:17:59. > :18:04.lessons and be as honest and open as we can. We know that among

:18:04. > :18:08.doctors, clinicians and even medical students there's a list of

:18:08. > :18:14.hospitals that they wouldn't want to go to themselves or send friends

:18:14. > :18:18.or family to. Do you know that list? I do. I know a list not where

:18:18. > :18:23.people shouldn't go, but I know the list that describes the variation

:18:23. > :18:27.in performance between hospitals. Can we have that list? It should be

:18:27. > :18:31.made available. When I was in the north-west, my previous job, that's

:18:31. > :18:35.what we did. We published the variation in standards of care.

:18:35. > :18:39.What that did, importantly, was not only get the public access to

:18:39. > :18:43.understand that, but it was an incentive for the clinicians to

:18:43. > :18:46.improve their services. So you are confirming there is a secret list

:18:46. > :18:52.know within the NHS to which they themselves would not wish to be

:18:52. > :18:58.treated at, but we, the people who paid �2 billion a week for our

:18:58. > :19:02.services, we are not allowed to know that list. What I'm not saying

:19:02. > :19:06.is, there is not a secret list about where people want to be

:19:06. > :19:09.treated, but there is information within the service about the

:19:09. > :19:13.variability of performance. If we are to learn the lessons from its

:19:13. > :19:16.stature, we need to make it more public. The public need to see more

:19:16. > :19:20.about the variations. The case we've been making for change to

:19:20. > :19:24.improve our outcomes relies on the public understanding that

:19:24. > :19:27.variability. This is very important. This is a chance to open up and

:19:28. > :19:32.make sure the NHS, which belongs to the people,, we provide that data

:19:32. > :19:38.for them to see that variability. how could Labour have let this

:19:38. > :19:42.happen? It's shocking. The report that is coming out today, there

:19:42. > :19:45.will be nothing new in relation to the lack of care provided a full

:19:45. > :19:49.patients, we know from the first inquiry that the level of care

:19:49. > :19:53.inquiry was shocking. You boasted about being the party of the NHS.

:19:53. > :19:58.This was when you were in power, and you were travelling the amount

:19:58. > :20:01.of money spent on the NHS. This isn't the normal Tory cuts

:20:01. > :20:06.narratives. This happened on your watch when he was stuffing money

:20:06. > :20:09.into it. No excuses for Mid Staffordshire. But to extrapolate

:20:09. > :20:12.from Mid Staffordshire that the entire NHS has a problem, or that

:20:12. > :20:20.all the money invested in extra nurses and doctors was a waste of

:20:20. > :20:27.time would be wrong. Nobody is saying that. No one is saying that

:20:27. > :20:31.the entire NHS is like Mid-Staffs. Don't set up on and Sally on that.

:20:31. > :20:35.But what Mr Fallon has conceded is what is happening at Mid-Staffs

:20:35. > :20:39.could still be happening and has happened in other parts of the NHS.

:20:39. > :20:43.The reason why it's more likely to happen than not is because one of

:20:43. > :20:46.the lessons from Mid Staffordshire, in the emergency units there were

:20:46. > :20:51.50 % less doctors and nurses than they should have been. Another less

:20:51. > :20:55.that could lead to problems. We also know there are cultural

:20:55. > :21:00.problems where the management... results in patients having to drink

:21:00. > :21:03.water out of farce as. The report says there were less than half the

:21:04. > :21:08.levels of doctors and nurses in the indie than they should have been.

:21:08. > :21:13.I'm not using that as an excuse, and explaining the facts uncovered

:21:13. > :21:20.today by Robert Francis. Why didn't you have a public inquiry when you

:21:20. > :21:23.were in government? Andy Burnham ordered an inquiry. The important

:21:23. > :21:28.thing was to get the lessons quickly. Within five months, France

:21:28. > :21:32.has produced his first report. This public inquiry has taken two-and-a-

:21:32. > :21:37.half years. Not belittling the lessons learned today, but two-and-

:21:37. > :21:43.a-half years was too long. The man who was chairman of the Strategic

:21:43. > :21:46.Health Authorities under which Mid- Staffs came, and is strongly

:21:46. > :21:50.criticised in the Francis report, is the man who will point to the

:21:50. > :21:54.chief-executive to the Mid Staffs Hospital. He's now the man under

:21:54. > :21:58.your government who is the chairman of the NHS commissioning Board. How

:21:59. > :22:03.did that happen? He is, yes. We will have to see the report as to

:22:04. > :22:08.what level of responsibility Mr Francis attracts to him. But he

:22:08. > :22:12.wasn't the one running the hospital. He was supervising it. We need to

:22:12. > :22:16.be clear what this report says. It's one thing to say, how did

:22:16. > :22:19.Labour allow it to happen? If it emerges that it was Labour have

:22:19. > :22:24.encouraged it to happen through the target obsessed culture that all of

:22:24. > :22:30.these trusts were under, if that emerges today then we are certainly

:22:30. > :22:34.looking for an apology from former Labour ministers. Andy Burnham and

:22:34. > :22:39.Alan Johnston have both apologised. If it emerges that the results of

:22:39. > :22:42.the inquiry are that less regulations lead to catastrophe, as

:22:42. > :22:45.the minister in charge of reducing regulation, one of the downside of

:22:45. > :22:48.having been up regulation for managers is you can have this sort

:22:49. > :22:52.of problem. Managers who are doing an appalling job leave the trust,

:22:52. > :22:56.get a pay-off and go somewhere else within the organisation. It's

:22:56. > :23:01.important to point out there on reforms already on the way, partly

:23:01. > :23:07.as a result of the first report. Will any of these reforms address

:23:07. > :23:12.what happened at Mid Staffs? Most patients are checked hourly to make

:23:12. > :23:16.sure they are being fed properly, they are not dehydrated. But the

:23:16. > :23:25.crucial... It's not a target, that's a practice. To say patients

:23:25. > :23:28.should be checked hourly is a target. It's a rule. From April,

:23:28. > :23:31.GPs, if they are not happy but the hospital they preferred their

:23:31. > :23:35.patients to, they will be in the driving seat from this April and

:23:35. > :23:38.will be able to stop sending patients to a hospital like

:23:38. > :23:43.Stafford and transferred them elsewhere. For the first time, GPs

:23:43. > :23:47.will be properly in charge. Do we need an external hospital

:23:47. > :23:51.inspectorate, like a schools inspectorate that can go in, and if

:23:51. > :23:56.they discover even a shadow of what was happening at Mid-Staffs they

:23:56. > :23:59.say, either improve or you close? There's a very important point

:23:59. > :24:03.about the extent to which you rely on external regulation and

:24:03. > :24:06.inspection, for what is partly a job of the culture within that

:24:06. > :24:10.organisation. Because we've lost some of the public confidence,

:24:10. > :24:15.there is a strong argument about improving our regulatory system.

:24:15. > :24:19.What about an inspectorate? Staff gave great care when they feel

:24:19. > :24:23.really valued, not really inspected. We have to have a situation inside

:24:23. > :24:28.hospitals where people take ownership. That is incredibly vague.

:24:28. > :24:32.We don't know what the culture is until we are in hospital and are in

:24:32. > :24:35.no condition to argue about the culture. We are hoping at the very

:24:35. > :24:39.least we may get a glass of water and some decent care that we paid

:24:39. > :24:46.for through our taxes. Do we need an inspectorate to ensure that we

:24:46. > :24:49.don't end up in a hospital like Mid-Staffs? We already have

:24:49. > :24:53.inspection in the Care Quality Commission. Robert Francis will say

:24:53. > :24:58.it has not worked properly we need to look carefully at that. If we

:24:58. > :25:03.simply think this is about better regulation outside of the hospital,

:25:03. > :25:06.we miss the point of it. The NHS does 1 million consultations every

:25:06. > :25:10.36 hours. We can't expect all of that. You rely heavily on the staff

:25:10. > :25:14.at the bedside showing care and compassion, and you get that

:25:14. > :25:23.because you have a good culture in those hospitals. Inspection back

:25:23. > :25:29.that up but it starts with people inside the hospital do. We are

:25:29. > :25:32.going to go to PMQs at noon today. The Prime Minister will be making a

:25:32. > :25:36.statement. It is not the Health Secretary that is making a

:25:36. > :25:43.statement, which is indicative of the severity of this matter. The

:25:43. > :25:49.Prime Minister himself will make the statement on the Frances report.

:25:49. > :25:57.We will bring you part of that. In the run-up to PMQs, we always have

:25:57. > :26:01.what is the highlight of the fun side of the Daily Politics. There's

:26:01. > :26:05.almost nothing that money can't buy in the 21st century. In fact, we

:26:05. > :26:09.heard last night that if you have �20,000 to spare, you could have

:26:10. > :26:13.landed yourself but this fantastic work of art at a charity auction.

:26:13. > :26:18.Showing the care for penmanship of the Chancellor of the Exchequer,

:26:18. > :26:22.George Osborne. Vanguard he hasn't got anything else to do, like run

:26:22. > :26:28.the economy. It does look like he had to take the day off to finish

:26:28. > :26:36.that, does it? Even �20,000 is not enough for this. The Daily Politics

:26:36. > :26:46.mug. It is! Actually, you can only get it if you win our weekly Guess

:26:46. > :26:55.

:26:55. > :27:05.the Year competition. Let's see if We have had Mr Powell in the party

:27:05. > :27:22.

:27:22. > :27:32.until quite recently. Perhaps he # It's an ancient Chinese art and

:27:32. > :27:43.

:27:43. > :27:53.# So how could I ever refuse. # I feel like I win when I lose.

:27:53. > :27:57.

:27:57. > :28:00.# Waterloo, couldn't escape if I To begin with a chance of winning a

:28:00. > :28:04.Daily Politics mug, send your answer to our special quiz e-mail

:28:05. > :28:14.address which is on screen now. You can see the full terms and

:28:15. > :28:15.

:28:15. > :28:19.It is coming up to midday. Let's take a look at Big Ben. It means

:28:19. > :28:25.only one thing. Prime Minister's Questions. Steve Richards of the

:28:25. > :28:30.Independent is here. Welcome back. The Mid-Staffs is the Big story,

:28:30. > :28:35.not just of the day but of the week, may be of the month. It's a service

:28:35. > :28:39.we all use and depend on. This is yet another appalling report on it.

:28:39. > :28:43.Because the Prime Minister is making a statement at 1230, am I

:28:43. > :28:47.right in thinking the leader of the opposition will not go on this at

:28:47. > :28:51.PMQs? Absolutely. He will be responding to David Cameron. It is

:28:51. > :28:56.fascinating that David Cameron has decided he is making the statement,

:28:56. > :29:00.on about 10 different levels. He will avoid that at PMQs. My guess

:29:00. > :29:03.is he will avoid gay marriage as well, because they agreed. There

:29:03. > :29:06.will probably be a joke about the division in the Tory parliamentary

:29:07. > :29:11.party, but I don't think you will go bit of that. On the banks, they

:29:11. > :29:14.are broadly in the same place at the moment. My guess is he would

:29:14. > :29:24.choose something else on which there is a big difference, welfare

:29:24. > :29:29.reform or something. The economy. If in doubt, use the economy. There

:29:29. > :29:33.will be a few jokes, but they will both be fully aware that the news

:29:33. > :29:37.story to emerge in the next hour or so will be their exchanges on Mid-

:29:37. > :29:41.Staffs. He and Cameron will be relatively relaxed about what

:29:41. > :29:46.follows in the next half-an-hour. Perhaps that will affect the mood

:29:46. > :29:49.of the house as well. That they know that following PMQs, there's

:29:49. > :29:54.something very serious about hundreds of lives that were lost,

:29:54. > :29:58.about a problem in the service that we are also proud of. It's a

:29:58. > :30:03.massive story. David Cameron obviously recognises the severity

:30:03. > :30:07.of the story. Clearly, every act is multi-layered. He sees some

:30:07. > :30:10.political advantage in making the statement. It happened under

:30:10. > :30:14.Labour's watch. But it's a really interesting story because in

:30:14. > :30:17.opposition, David Cameron would always say to me, if there's a

:30:18. > :30:22.problem in a single hospital, we will say, this is not a government

:30:22. > :30:25.problem, we have localised health care, it's their problem. He's

:30:25. > :30:29.doing the exact opposite and saying, look, I'm taking responsibility for

:30:30. > :30:33.this. He's done this kind of father of the nation at what the Bloody

:30:33. > :30:37.Sunday inquiry. He did it with Hillsborough. He was thought to do

:30:37. > :30:42.very well with both of these and be seen to speak about party issues.

:30:42. > :30:46.Were he tried to do the same with this? Tonally, perhaps, but this is

:30:46. > :30:51.also highly political. Everything to do with the NHS is. It's also to

:30:51. > :30:55.do with the present debate. I think he will part the use it to say,

:30:56. > :30:59.look, this is why we felt the need to reform the NHS. Unlike those

:30:59. > :31:03.previous statements, which he did brilliantly about past events,

:31:03. > :31:07.there's a political dimension to this one. It isn't clear to me how

:31:07. > :31:11.the Government's reforms, they made the right or wrong, but it's not

:31:11. > :31:16.clear how they would impact directly on the midst of City

:31:16. > :31:26.Whitton. I'm sorry, I asked that question and I can't take the

:31:26. > :31:34.

:31:34. > :31:38.I thank my right honourable friend for the answer. Having given my

:31:38. > :31:44.right honourable friend notice of my question, which he may find

:31:44. > :31:47.useful in the sense that it is transparent and also very modern...

:31:47. > :31:53.Can my right honourable friend say that in response to the many

:31:53. > :31:56.concerns expressed in yesterday's debate, which he ensure that civil

:31:56. > :32:01.partnerships are open to heterosexual couples on an equal

:32:01. > :32:07.basis with homosexual couples? very grateful to my honourable

:32:07. > :32:12.friend for giving me notice of his questions. Frankly, I am a marriage

:32:12. > :32:16.man. I am a great supporter of marriage. I want to promote, defend

:32:16. > :32:21.and encourage marriage and the great thing about last night's vote

:32:21. > :32:29.is that two gay people who love it sure there will now be able to get

:32:29. > :32:34.married and I think we should be promoting marriage. Ed Miliband!

:32:34. > :32:39.Speaker, I want to ask the Prime Minister about the bedroom tax.

:32:39. > :32:43.Alison in Middlesbrough has 18- year-old twin sons in the army. The

:32:43. > :32:48.bedroom tax means that while her sons are a way, she will be charged

:32:48. > :32:52.more for their bedrooms. She says, I resent the fact that my sons are

:32:52. > :32:56.serving their country and in return will not have a home to come home

:32:56. > :33:02.to when they are granted their much-needed leaves. What is the

:33:02. > :33:12.Prime Minister's answer to Alison? Let me make clear, this is not

:33:12. > :33:16.

:33:16. > :33:21.attacks, this is a benefit. -- a tax. First of all, it all the time

:33:21. > :33:25.that Labour was in government, if you were in a private sector rented

:33:25. > :33:30.home and you were in receipt of housing benefit, you did not get

:33:30. > :33:36.any benefit for empty rooms. That is important. It is only fair we

:33:36. > :33:40.treat people in social housing the same way. If anyone is away from

:33:40. > :33:47.home then obviously their earnings are not counted and therefore the

:33:47. > :33:53.benefits of that person are likely to go up. SHOUTING.

:33:53. > :34:01.I look forward to him explaining to Alison why her paying �25 a week

:34:01. > :34:05.more from April is not a tax on her! And as for his point about the

:34:05. > :34:10.private rented sector, I think he misunderstands the point of social

:34:10. > :34:15.housing. Part of its purpose is to protect the most vulnerable and

:34:15. > :34:19.according to the government's figures, two-thirds of the people

:34:19. > :34:24.hit a disabled. Let me tell the Prime Minister about any mail I

:34:24. > :34:28.received last week. It says, my wife has a degenerative condition

:34:28. > :34:32.and is cared for in bed. Due to her illness and my own medical

:34:32. > :34:37.conditions, I sleep in the spare bedroom.

:34:37. > :34:43.A why is it fair for him and hundreds of thousands of others,

:34:43. > :34:47.disabled people like him, to be hit by the bedroom tax? As with every

:34:47. > :34:54.honourable member, if he wants me or the Department of Work and

:34:54. > :34:59.Pensions to look at a specific case, of course I will. Let me make some

:34:59. > :35:04.detailed points of. First of all, there is a �50 million fund to deal

:35:04. > :35:09.with difficult cases. But let me also make the basic argument of

:35:09. > :35:13.fairness that he seems to miss. If you are in private renting housing

:35:14. > :35:18.and receive no housing benefit, you don't get money for an extra room.

:35:18. > :35:22.If you are in private housing and to get housing benefit, you don't

:35:22. > :35:26.get money for an extra room. So why should we be doing more for people

:35:26. > :35:30.in social housing on housing benefit of their own people in

:35:30. > :35:37.private housing on housing benefit? Another additional point that

:35:37. > :35:42.frankly he has got to engage in. The housing benefit bill is now �23

:35:42. > :35:47.billion a year! We know that he is against capping welfare, we know he

:35:47. > :35:51.is against restricting welfare to below the rate of increase in wages,

:35:51. > :35:58.we know all the things he is against. We are beginning to wonder

:35:58. > :36:02.what on earth he is for! He is spending more than �8 billion more

:36:02. > :36:08.than he planned on housing benefit because of his economic failure

:36:08. > :36:11.during this parliament! And I just say to him, the whole point of

:36:11. > :36:15.social housing is to protect families including the disabled. He

:36:15. > :36:21.does not sound like he will do anything for military families or

:36:21. > :36:25.the disabled, but let's talk about a group of people he Eva's -- he is

:36:25. > :36:30.moved by. I have a letter sent on his behalf by the Conservative

:36:30. > :36:34.Party treasurer about the so-called mansion tax and it says this: "we

:36:34. > :36:40.promised that no homes tax will be introduced during the course of

:36:40. > :36:46.this parliament. To keep the taxman out of your home, please help by

:36:46. > :36:49.donating today and supporting the no homes tax campaign". Can the

:36:49. > :36:52.Prime Minster explain what is it about the plight of those people

:36:53. > :37:01.that he finds so much more compelling than those hit by the

:37:01. > :37:05.bedroom tax? If he is in favour of a mansion tax, why didn't he

:37:05. > :37:09.introduce one in the 13 years in government? If he is so passionate

:37:09. > :37:13.about social housing, why didn't he build any when he was in

:37:13. > :37:17.government? If he thinks we are spending too much on housing

:37:18. > :37:22.benefit, why does see a POS each and every attempt we meant to get

:37:22. > :37:26.the Welfare Bill under control -- why does he opposed? The fact is,

:37:27. > :37:32.we are on this side of people who work hard and want to do the right

:37:32. > :37:38.thing! All he can ever do is spend more money! I do say to the Prime

:37:38. > :37:48.Minister, he should not get so het up. After all, he has got nearly

:37:48. > :37:49.

:37:49. > :37:56.half his parliamentary party behind him! CHEERING. Mr Speaker, and the

:37:56. > :38:02.policy is not just unfair, it is not going to work either. In Hull,

:38:02. > :38:06.4700 people are going to be hit by the bedroom tax and there are just

:38:06. > :38:11.73 council property is for them to move to. Can the Prime Minister

:38:11. > :38:16.explain how exactly that is going to work? What this government is

:38:16. > :38:21.doing it... We are building more houses and controlling welfare

:38:21. > :38:25.bills but frankly the question is one he has to answer, too. If he is

:38:25. > :38:30.against the welfare cap and restrictions on increased welfare,

:38:30. > :38:35.if he opposes reform or disability benefits and each and every welfare

:38:35. > :38:45.change we make, how on earth is he going to get control of public

:38:45. > :38:45.

:38:45. > :38:49.spending? A clue is in the title, a prime minister's Quincy -- Prime

:38:49. > :38:53.Minister's Questions. He is opposed to answer the questions. I thought

:38:53. > :39:03.he might say move to the private rented sector because there are not

:39:03. > :39:07.enough council properties, but this is where... But this is where... I

:39:07. > :39:11.would like him to say what those people should do! The policy is

:39:11. > :39:17.supposed to save money and this is where it is not going to work out.

:39:17. > :39:24.Another woman wrote to me and said, my rent for my family home...

:39:24. > :39:29.SHOUTING. I don't know why they are groaning, Mr Speaker. Thousands of

:39:29. > :39:36.their constituents will be hit by this! Another woman who wrote to me

:39:36. > :39:41.says "my rent for my family home is �65.68 whereas a one-bedroom in the

:39:41. > :39:45.private sector would cost over �100". How can it possibly makes

:39:45. > :39:51.sense to force people into a situation where they cost the state

:39:51. > :39:59.more, not less, by moving to the private rented sector? The his

:39:59. > :40:02.government is building more homes! If he supports that, perhaps he

:40:02. > :40:06.will tell us he supports the changes to the planning system,

:40:06. > :40:10.their new homes bonus, the things that will get more homes built and

:40:10. > :40:16.more people into jobs? We have 1 million extra people working in the

:40:16. > :40:20.private sector. That is what he has got to engage in. He has got

:40:20. > :40:25.absolutely no suggestions for how to get on top of well-fed, get the

:40:25. > :40:29.deficit down and get the economy moving -- get on top of welfare.

:40:29. > :40:33.Today we discovered he has not even got a clue about his own policy

:40:33. > :40:37.that he will introduce in April and his answers remind us what his

:40:37. > :40:41.party and the country are saying about him. The only people he

:40:41. > :40:46.listens to our small group of rich and powerful people at the top.

:40:46. > :40:49.That is why he has come up with a policy that is unfair. He is a

:40:49. > :40:56.prime minister who is weak, incompetent and totally out of

:40:56. > :41:01.touch! Totally pathetic scripted rubbish that we get used to every

:41:01. > :41:07.Wednesday. On the issue of who listens to whom, I have a very

:41:07. > :41:13.clear idea of who he listens to, because we heard it in the LSE

:41:13. > :41:17.lecture by Len McCluskey! Len McCluskey said this. He said, oh I

:41:17. > :41:22.met Ed Miliband and he asked me this question, this is the question

:41:22. > :41:27.he asked Len McCluskey. If you had three wishes, three things you

:41:27. > :41:34.would like us to do if we got back into power, what would you like

:41:34. > :41:38.them to be? Len McCluskey's answer: Trade union freedom, trade union

:41:38. > :41:48.freedom, trade union freedom. That is who he was to be fairy godmother

:41:48. > :41:51.

:41:51. > :41:55.to! James Arbuthnot! At the time of the strategic defence and security

:41:55. > :41:59.review, two-and-a-half years ago, my right honourable friend is said

:41:59. > :42:03.my own strong view is that this structure will require a year on

:42:03. > :42:10.year real terms growth in the defence budget in the years beyond

:42:10. > :42:16.2015. Does that remain his view? As he heard any similar view expressed

:42:16. > :42:20.by the leader of the opposition? -- has he heard? It does remain my

:42:20. > :42:25.view but I am the only party leader who believes that in the use be on

:42:25. > :42:29.this parliament, we should be increasing defence spending -- in

:42:29. > :42:33.that the years beyond this parliament. But the good news is

:42:33. > :42:38.that it is actually agreed government policy that the defence

:42:38. > :42:42.equipment programme does need real terms increases after 2015, and

:42:42. > :42:46.that is very important for us to be able to plan the exceptional

:42:46. > :42:53.equipment programme that we have to give us some of the best-equipped

:42:53. > :42:57.armed forces anywhere in the world. Mr Speaker, the Budget Office

:42:57. > :43:06.responsibility, the Office for Budget Responsibility rather...

:43:06. > :43:11.Laughter... Tells us that the bankers will spend �500 million

:43:11. > :43:15.less in the bank has tax than the Prime Minister promised last year,

:43:15. > :43:20.yet in April he will inflict a �500 million cut in the poorest through

:43:20. > :43:28.the empty bedroom tax. How can he justify taking from the Paul and

:43:28. > :43:31.giving to the rich? Robin Hood! the poor. We think the bank levy is

:43:31. > :43:35.a better answer than a one-off bonus tax and the bank levy will be

:43:35. > :43:39.paid every year and so it will raise considerably more than a one-

:43:39. > :43:43.off bonus tax and what the Chancellor has done, when the bank

:43:43. > :43:50.levy has not come up to the figures that we require, is to increase the

:43:50. > :43:54.bank levy to make sure that it does. Can I remind the House of my

:43:54. > :44:00.declared interest? Tomorrow the Prime Minister will go to Brussels

:44:00. > :44:05.to rightly argue for a reduction in CAP funding. Will he ensure that

:44:05. > :44:09.any reduction applies to farmers right across Europe and not just in

:44:09. > :44:14.the UK? Will he make sure he does not fall into the trap fallen into

:44:15. > :44:19.by his predecessor in 2005, that when pressing for cuts ended up

:44:19. > :44:23.with a cut to the one part that everybody thinks is worth well,

:44:23. > :44:28.which is cut to the environment and the World Development Programme?

:44:28. > :44:32.right honourable friend speaks very knowledgeably about this. These

:44:32. > :44:37.will be extremely difficult negotiations and obviously our aim

:44:37. > :44:41.is what the significant cut I have spoken about, but the point about

:44:41. > :44:44.agriculture is important, particularly about the flexibility

:44:44. > :44:49.we required to make sure things like that rural development

:44:49. > :44:54.programme can continue to succeed. We know the Prime Minister has met

:44:54. > :45:04.lots of millionaires. But has he ever met anyone who will lose their

:45:04. > :45:13.

:45:13. > :45:17.I have RAF Brize Norton in my constituency, so I have many forces

:45:17. > :45:20.families living there. But what they say to me is they want a

:45:20. > :45:23.government that is on the side of people who work hard and do the

:45:23. > :45:26.right thing. They support the fact that we are capping welfare, we are

:45:26. > :45:35.getting on top of immigration and clearing up the mess left by her

:45:35. > :45:37.party. Today is the United Nations International Date of zero-

:45:37. > :45:40.tolerance to female genital mutilation. Does the Prime Minister

:45:40. > :45:45.agree with me that Britain should be doing all it can to combat this

:45:46. > :45:52.dreadful abuse of the Human Rights of Women and girls, overseas and

:45:52. > :45:55.here in the UK? I completely agree. She is right to raise this. The

:45:55. > :45:59.government has made progress on this, chairing a forum looking

:45:59. > :46:03.right across the piece, including what we do overseas in terms of our

:46:03. > :46:08.aid programme and trying to prevent the horrific female genital

:46:08. > :46:10.mutilation, but also to make sure here that the Crown Prosecution

:46:10. > :46:17.Service and others are aware of the law on to everything they can to

:46:17. > :46:24.make sure it is properly prosecuted. Can the Prime Minister confirmed

:46:24. > :46:30.that Atos have declared that much of the third is fit for work? --

:46:30. > :46:35.Richard III. That is not a constituency case that has come my

:46:35. > :46:39.way. All I can say is I hope it's going to engender a great

:46:39. > :46:47.historical understanding of these events. I hope it will be a great

:46:47. > :46:50.boost to the great city of Leicester. This week's announcement

:46:50. > :46:54.that the work of the Stockton Insolvency Service is moving to

:46:54. > :46:57.Newcastle is the latest in a long series of similar announcements

:46:57. > :47:01.affecting the Tees Valley, including the closure of

:47:01. > :47:05.Middlesbrough's HMRC office by the previous government. Will the Prime

:47:05. > :47:11.Minister look to bring extra work to the HMRC office in Stockton and

:47:11. > :47:14.to moving another public-sector agency to the Tees Valley? I will

:47:14. > :47:17.look carefully at what my Honourable Friend says. Of course

:47:18. > :47:21.we want to make sure that public sector jobs are fairly distributed

:47:21. > :47:25.around the country. But we have to be frank, the real need for our

:47:25. > :47:28.economy is a rebalancing with a growth in the private sector to

:47:28. > :47:32.make up for the fact that public sector jobs have declined. As we

:47:32. > :47:36.look over the last two-and-a-half years, the million extra private

:47:36. > :47:39.sector jobs has more than offset the decline in public sector and

:47:39. > :47:46.employment. That is why we can see unemployment falling around the

:47:46. > :47:51.country. The Prime Minister may not be aware of an opinion poll by the

:47:51. > :47:53.BBC in Northern Ireland which shows that in all of the six counties of

:47:53. > :47:56.Northern Ireland there is now a clear majority in favour of the

:47:56. > :48:00.Union. Because people right across Northern Ireland recognise that

:48:00. > :48:07.when it comes to being part of this United Kingdom, we are better off

:48:07. > :48:10.together. I sometimes try and avoid opinion polls, so I haven't seen

:48:10. > :48:15.that one. It looks like one that will lift the spirits of almost

:48:15. > :48:23.everyone in this house, because we believe in the United Kingdom and

:48:23. > :48:28.we believe in Northern Ireland being part of that UK. Can the

:48:28. > :48:32.Prime Minister reassure this house that he still believes in

:48:32. > :48:36.increasing spending on the NHS, making sure that those funds go to

:48:37. > :48:41.the frontline doctors and nurses at the frontline of our service?

:48:41. > :48:44.give him that assurance. That is why we are committed to increase

:48:44. > :48:48.NHS spending during this Parliament for each year in this Parliament.

:48:48. > :48:52.We are on course to do that. But we do want to make sure the money goes

:48:52. > :48:55.to the front line. That is why the number of managers and

:48:55. > :49:02.administrators in our NHS is right down and the number of clinical

:49:02. > :49:05.staff is right up. Was it the double-dip recession, the slowdown

:49:05. > :49:08.in deficit reduction or the projected 60 % increase in national

:49:08. > :49:13.debt over the next five years that led the Prime Minister to state

:49:13. > :49:18.that he had full confidence in his Chancellor? Why have confidence in

:49:18. > :49:26.the Chancellor, the deficit is down 25 %. Deraa 1 million extra private

:49:26. > :49:30.sector jobs. We are cleaning up the mess made by the party opposite.

:49:30. > :49:34.Dover, plans are moving forward for the building of a new hospital,

:49:34. > :49:39.after a decade in which local hospital services were decimated.

:49:39. > :49:44.Can I, too, say the need to increase investment in the NHS and

:49:44. > :49:48.ensure real focus on the frontline. On this day particularly, when we

:49:48. > :49:51.are back to discuss what happened at the Staffordshire Hospital, it

:49:51. > :49:54.is a day to talk about the importance of care in our health

:49:54. > :49:58.service, the importance of the frontline and the have porters,

:49:58. > :50:01.above all, of really looking at quality and listening to patients.

:50:01. > :50:05.Under this government, of course resources have been constrained,

:50:05. > :50:08.for all the reasons we have discussed across the despatch box

:50:08. > :50:11.as week in week out, but we did make a conscious choice to put more

:50:12. > :50:18.money into the NHS and to get back to the front five. That is why

:50:18. > :50:21.there are 5900 or doctors and there are 19,000 fewer non-clinical staff.

:50:21. > :50:29.The money is going into the frontline of the bloggers needs to

:50:29. > :50:33.be on the quality and patients. -- but the focus needs to be on the

:50:33. > :50:37.quality and the patience. Is the Prime Minister concerned about

:50:37. > :50:40.suicide levels in our society? Will he assure me and his party of the

:50:40. > :50:44.Government's support to raise awareness of the issues and work

:50:44. > :50:51.with devolved administrations to tackle the scourge across all of

:50:51. > :50:53.the UK and Northern Ireland. And I commend the Honourable Gentleman

:50:53. > :50:58.and Democratic Unionists for bringing this issue forward. The

:50:58. > :51:02.whole issue of suicide is one we often don't talk enough about in

:51:02. > :51:05.our society. I think it is absolutely right to do so. It is a

:51:05. > :51:09.shocking statistic that in Northern Ireland, almost six times the

:51:09. > :51:13.number of people killed in road traffic accidents of lost to

:51:13. > :51:16.suicide. Raising awareness of this and making sure there's a proper

:51:16. > :51:21.Cross Government's strategy to help people deal with this is vitally

:51:21. > :51:31.important. As a result of the financial mess the Labour

:51:31. > :51:38.

:51:38. > :51:44.government left the country in... Local councils... Order, a house

:51:44. > :51:49.must come down. I intend to get through the questions. Local

:51:49. > :51:53.councils have raised as tough a budget settlement as most other

:51:53. > :51:58.government departments. Does the Prime Minister share my dismay that

:51:58. > :52:02.Manchester City Council is choosing to close libraries, leisure centres

:52:02. > :52:06.and the Mersey Valley warden service, while at the same time was

:52:06. > :52:12.happy to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on an Alicia

:52:12. > :52:16.Keys concert, and leave 100 million reserve sitting in the bank?

:52:16. > :52:20.makes an important point. Of course councils face difficult spending

:52:20. > :52:22.decisions. But if you look at the level of spending on the level of

:52:22. > :52:26.grant they are still getting in many cases, it is equivalent to

:52:26. > :52:30.what we were getting under the last government. Obviously the economy

:52:30. > :52:34.has declined since then and so we have to cut our cloth accordingly.

:52:34. > :52:38.But they should be held accountable for the decisions they make. In

:52:38. > :52:41.some cases they can be little doubt that councils are making high-

:52:41. > :52:44.profile cuts to try and make a point, and they shouldn't be

:52:44. > :52:51.damaging people's livelihoods, they should be doing the best for their

:52:51. > :52:54.cities. Would the Prime Minister confirm for the record that thanks

:52:54. > :53:02.to his cuts to the childcare element of the working tax credit,

:53:02. > :53:06.families with children are losing up to �1,500 a year? What has

:53:06. > :53:10.happened and have a child tax credit is we increased it by �390

:53:10. > :53:16.in the early budgets of this government. If you look at the

:53:16. > :53:21.benefits for Ade two parent, two child family, they will be getting

:53:21. > :53:28.over �1,500 extra this year, that's �30 a week, compared to 2010. The

:53:28. > :53:33.Honourable Gentleman is wrong. the Prime Minister paid tribute to

:53:33. > :53:37.the new President of Somalia, whose government has made remarkable

:53:37. > :53:41.progress over the last few months? Although there is still a long way

:53:41. > :53:44.to go, would he agree with me that the Somali and peace process is a

:53:45. > :53:47.really good example of Britain combining aid and development with

:53:47. > :53:53.energising the neighbouring states and the diplomatic community

:53:53. > :53:59.worldwide? Can he tell the House, what role does he envisage here in

:53:59. > :54:02.the UK? He makes an important point. Anyone wondering the relevance of

:54:02. > :54:07.Somalia to hear in the UK, we have to remember that this country has

:54:07. > :54:12.been the author of huge amounts of problems, from terrorism, piracy,

:54:12. > :54:16.mass migration. Even to the most hardy sceptic of our aid budget, I

:54:16. > :54:20.would say this is a really good case where engagement, aid and

:54:20. > :54:23.diplomacy can help that country to mend itself for the future. In

:54:23. > :54:27.terms of the diaspora, I hope they will give full support to the new

:54:27. > :54:31.President, who is demonstrating huge grip in his country at mending

:54:31. > :54:35.that pop -- mending the problems that have devilled that country for

:54:35. > :54:41.so long. The Prime Minister's Korea probably peaked when he was a

:54:41. > :54:46.backbench member of the Home Affairs Committee in 2005. Can he

:54:46. > :54:51.revived his progressive courage at that time when he looks at the

:54:51. > :54:59.report from the all-party group about the awful problems of new

:54:59. > :55:03.drugs that on the market but are not controlled in any way? I am

:55:03. > :55:11.grateful for his view of my career trajectory. I won't ask him about

:55:11. > :55:15.his. I think that the Home Affairs Select Committee that I work on, I

:55:15. > :55:19.did learn some important lessons from that. The priority we should

:55:19. > :55:23.give in terms of tackling drugs, to education and treatment. Those of

:55:23. > :55:27.the absolutely key arms of what needs to be done. Then I don't

:55:27. > :55:33.believe we should be legalising any drugs that are currently illegal.

:55:33. > :55:38.In terms of current legal highs and problems relating to the last

:55:38. > :55:44.question about things like CAT, we need to look at the evidence of

:55:44. > :55:49.what will work best. In Solihull, over 80,000 people have benefited

:55:49. > :55:57.from our policy of raising the threshold at which people start to

:55:57. > :56:02.pay tax. This morning, the IFS confirmed that this policy is right,

:56:02. > :56:09.and those who have the broadest shoulders are bearing the greatest

:56:09. > :56:15.burden of tax. In the light of this, will the government commit to

:56:15. > :56:23.raising the threshold at which people pay tax to �10,000 in his

:56:23. > :56:27.Budget? She is absolutely right. Raising the threshold before which

:56:27. > :56:32.people start to pay tax has been absolutely right. What it has meant

:56:32. > :56:37.is someone on minimum-wage, working full-time, their tax bill has been

:56:37. > :56:40.cut by half. That is a huge change to help people who work hard, who

:56:40. > :56:44.want to do the right thing. It is this government that is rewarding

:56:44. > :56:48.them. She mentions the Institute for Fiscal Studies Green Budget out

:56:48. > :56:52.this morning, I haven't had that much time to study it. But on the

:56:53. > :57:01.issue of fairness it says this. The whole set of tax and benefit

:57:01. > :57:07.changes introduced between the start of 2010 and 2015-2016 hit the

:57:07. > :57:11.richest hardest -- households hardest. The leader of the

:57:11. > :57:15.opposition asked the Prime Minister a simple question to which he gave

:57:15. > :57:19.no adequate reply. I will ask it again. What is the difference

:57:19. > :57:25.between a bedroom tax on the disabled and a mansion tax on

:57:25. > :57:31.millionaires? I don't accept that the bedroom tax is a tax. It is an

:57:31. > :57:35.issue about benefit. As a country, we are spending �23 billion on

:57:35. > :57:38.housing benefit. We have to have a debate in this country. The last

:57:38. > :57:42.government said we had to have a debate in this country about

:57:42. > :57:46.getting on top of housing benefit. Indeed, it featured in the Labour

:57:46. > :57:50.manifesto. The manifesto on which they were all elected. But since

:57:50. > :57:57.they have moved to the opposition benches, they have given up all

:57:57. > :58:01.pretence at responsibility at all. Can the Prime Minister reconcile

:58:01. > :58:04.his recent comments on the need to accelerate major infrastructure

:58:04. > :58:07.projects that the Government's decision to postpone forming a

:58:07. > :58:15.policy on airports until after the next general election, and what he

:58:15. > :58:19.reconsider and bring back review for what? -- bring that review

:58:19. > :58:22.forward? It looks at what how would Davies has said in terms of his

:58:22. > :58:27.review, he has said this is a very complicated issue that merits

:58:27. > :58:31.proper examination that will take time. We need, as a country, to

:58:31. > :58:34.make major decisions about airport and airport capacity. We should be

:58:34. > :58:43.aiming as far as is possible to try and make these decisions on a

:58:43. > :58:49.cross-party basis. I hope that the report will help that to happen.

:58:49. > :58:53.Last night's vote on same-sex marriage is widely regarded as a

:58:53. > :58:58.historic vote. Does the Prime Minister agree with me that it is a

:58:58. > :59:04.tribute to all of the people down the decades, in all parties and in

:59:04. > :59:07.no party, behind the scenes and in public, who have worked for such

:59:08. > :59:12.equality? And does the Prime Minister agree with me that the

:59:12. > :59:20.vote proves that the Ark of history Ben's slowly, but it bends towards

:59:20. > :59:24.justice? I agree. I think last night's vote will be seen not just

:59:24. > :59:29.as making sure there is a proper element of equality, but also

:59:29. > :59:33.helping us to build a stronger and fairer society. I thought many of

:59:33. > :59:36.the speeches made last night were very moving, very emotional and I

:59:36. > :59:40.would pay tribute to all of those people who actually made this case,

:59:40. > :59:44.some of them for many years, saying that they want their love to count

:59:44. > :59:48.the same way that a man and woman's love for each of accounts. That is

:59:48. > :59:54.what we have opened now in this country. That is why I'm proud that

:59:54. > :59:59.its this government that has brought it forward. For years,

:59:59. > :00:03.young people in cool and break have enjoyed some of the lowest per

:00:03. > :00:07.pupil school funding in the country. This has become critical for Caddis

:00:07. > :00:10.such as the East Riding of Yorkshire. Can the Prime Minister

:00:10. > :00:15.look closely at the East Riding of Yorkshire and the lower level of

:00:15. > :00:20.per pupil funding they receive? will look closely at what he has

:00:20. > :00:25.said. I would make a couple of points. Within the education budget

:00:25. > :00:29.we have prioritised the per pupil funding, so there hasn't been a

:00:29. > :00:32.reduction in that. I think it's very important schools can see

:00:32. > :00:36.forward to future years, the sorts of budgets they will have given the

:00:36. > :00:40.role of children coming to the school. The second thing we've done

:00:40. > :00:43.is to the Academy programme. To encourage the devolution of more of

:00:43. > :00:53.the school budget to the school's director. I still think there's

:00:53. > :00:58.

:00:58. > :01:02.Why was a motion to strengthen patient and public involvement in

:01:02. > :01:06.the new patient watchdog rejected by the government in the other

:01:06. > :01:12.place last night? We do want to see patients have a stronger voice in

:01:12. > :01:16.the NHS and we are about to debate in some length about how that is

:01:16. > :01:21.down. One of the most important ways will be making sure that the

:01:21. > :01:26.mandate of the NHS commissioning board has at its heart quality

:01:26. > :01:30.nursing and the voice of patience. We also need to look at how health

:01:30. > :01:34.watch is going to work to make sure it is truly independent and we have

:01:34. > :01:39.to understand that some of the ways we have tried to empower patients

:01:39. > :01:44.in the past always with good intentions, from governments of

:01:44. > :01:51.both sides, we have to listen to what Francis says when he says it

:01:51. > :01:56.just has not worked. With more women in work then ever before,

:01:56. > :02:01.with more men in work than ever before, with more jobs created in

:02:01. > :02:05.the private sector, with the Prime Minister not agree with me that the

:02:05. > :02:11.Chancellor's plan is not only working but the economy is

:02:11. > :02:15.beginning to turn the corner! think we should listen very

:02:15. > :02:19.carefully to what the Governor of the Bank of England said, who said

:02:19. > :02:23.of course growth is slower than we would like that the economy is

:02:23. > :02:28.moving in the right direction, the rebalancing is taking place, the

:02:28. > :02:32.things that need to be fixed in our economy in terms of bank lending

:02:32. > :02:37.and housing supply, they are being fixed. That is what the

:02:38. > :02:43.Government's is determined to do. One of my constituents has learned

:02:43. > :02:49.that when the bedroom tax is introduced, she will have �24 a

:02:49. > :02:55.week to live on. She is so anxious about how she is going to manage.

:02:55. > :02:58.She is having cognitive behaviour therapy. But her anxiety is totally

:02:58. > :03:03.understandable. Does the Prime Minister agree with me that those

:03:03. > :03:10.who should be receiving a cognitive behaviour therapy are the ones,

:03:10. > :03:14.namely his ministers, who think she could live on �24 a week! The party

:03:14. > :03:18.opposite does have to address the fact that for 13 years in

:03:18. > :03:22.government, they were perfectly content to have a housing benefit

:03:22. > :03:26.system for people who lived in private sector housing where there

:03:27. > :03:31.was no extra benefit for empty rooms and I cannot understand why

:03:31. > :03:35.they can't see it is unfair to have one all four people with the

:03:35. > :03:41.benefit of social housing and another rule for people in private

:03:41. > :03:45.housing. Week after week, Labour MPs come here opposing benefit

:03:45. > :03:49.changes and everything we do to deal with the mess they left and to

:03:49. > :03:53.fill in the deficit they left us and until they can learn they have

:03:53. > :04:00.to take some of the responsibility for the mess they left, no one will

:04:00. > :04:04.ever listen to them. Prime Minister's questions ends but

:04:04. > :04:11.we will stay here to hear the beginning of the Prime Minister's

:04:11. > :04:18.statement on the mid- Staffordshire Trust.

:04:18. > :04:22.Mr Speaker, I have a deep affection for our National Health Service. I

:04:22. > :04:29.will never forget all of the things that doctors and nurses have done

:04:29. > :04:34.for my family in times of real difficulty. I love my our NHS. I

:04:34. > :04:39.think it is a fantastic institution. It says a huge amount about our

:04:39. > :04:42.country. I always want to think the best of it and I have huge

:04:42. > :04:48.admiration for the doctors, nurses and health workers would dedicate

:04:48. > :04:51.their lives to caring for our loved ones, but we do them and the whole

:04:51. > :04:57.reputation of the NHS a grave disservice if we failed to speak

:04:57. > :05:02.out when things go wrong. What happened at the Mid-Staffordshire

:05:03. > :05:09.NHS Foundation Trust between 2005 and 2009 was not just roll, it was

:05:09. > :05:14.truly dreadful. -- not just roll. Hundreds of people suffered

:05:14. > :05:18.appalling neglect and mistreatment. Some patients was so desperate for

:05:18. > :05:25.water they were drinking from flower vases. Many were given the

:05:25. > :05:30.wrong medication and left to wet themselves and lie in their own

:05:30. > :05:33.urine for days. Relatives were ignored was met approached when

:05:33. > :05:36.they pointed out the most basic things that could have saved their

:05:37. > :05:41.loved ones from pain and death. We can only begin to imagine the

:05:41. > :05:45.suffering endured by those whose trust in the health service was

:05:45. > :05:51.betrayed at their most vulnerable moment. That is why I believe it is

:05:51. > :05:56.right to make the statement today. There was a Healthcare Commission

:05:56. > :06:02.investigation into 1009, the first independent inquiry in 2010, and

:06:02. > :06:08.long before that the testimony of bereaved relatives, like Cure The

:06:08. > :06:12.NHS and Julie Bailey, who laid bare the most unspeakable catalogue of

:06:12. > :06:16.failures at the Trust. Even after these reports, some really

:06:16. > :06:20.important questions remain unanswered. How were these

:06:20. > :06:25.appalling events allowed to happen? How were they allowed to continue

:06:25. > :06:30.for so long? Why were so many bereaved families and whistle-blow

:06:30. > :06:34.was ignored for so long? Could something like this happen again?

:06:34. > :06:39.Basic questions about wider failures in the system, not just at

:06:39. > :06:43.the hospital but right across the NHS, including its regulators and

:06:43. > :06:48.the Department of Health. That is why the families called for this

:06:48. > :06:52.public inquiry and that is why this government granted one and I am

:06:52. > :06:57.sure the House will want to join me in expressing thanks to Robert

:06:57. > :07:01.Francis and his team over the last three years. The inquiry finds that

:07:01. > :07:06.the appalling suffering at Stafford Hospital was primarily caught by a

:07:06. > :07:10.serious failure on behalf of the trust board, which failed to listen

:07:10. > :07:14.to patients and staff and failed to tackle an insidious negative

:07:14. > :07:19.culture involving a tolerance of poor standards and a disengagement

:07:19. > :07:23.from managerial and leadership responsibilities. But the inquiry

:07:23. > :07:27.finds that the failure went far wider. The Primary Care Trust

:07:27. > :07:31.assumed others were taking responsibility and made little

:07:31. > :07:36.attempt to collect proper information on the quality of care.

:07:36. > :07:40.The Strategic Health Authority was "to remote from the patients it was

:07:40. > :07:45.there to serve and failed to be sufficiently sensitive to signs

:07:45. > :07:50.that patients may be at risk". Regulators, including the then

:07:50. > :07:54.Healthcare Commission, failed to protect patients. Too many doctors

:07:55. > :08:00.kept their heads down instead of speaking out when things went wrong.

:08:00. > :08:03.The Royal College of Nursing was ineffective, both as a professional

:08:03. > :08:08.organisation and as a trade union. The Department of Health was too

:08:08. > :08:11.remote from the reality of the services that they oversee. The way

:08:11. > :08:15.Robert Francis chronicles the evidence of systemic failure means

:08:15. > :08:19.we cannot say with confidence that failings of care are limited to one

:08:19. > :08:25.hospital but let us also be clear about what the report does not say.

:08:25. > :08:29.France's does not claim any specific policy. -- France's. He

:08:30. > :08:33.does not blame the last Secretary of State for Health. He says we

:08:33. > :08:38.should not seek scapegoats. Looking beyond the specific failures that

:08:38. > :08:44.he does clearly catalogue, I believe you can identify three

:08:44. > :08:48.fundamental problems with the culture of our NHS. First, a focus

:08:48. > :08:53.on finance and figures at the expense of patient care. He says

:08:53. > :08:58.that explicitly. This was underpinned by a preoccupation with

:08:58. > :09:05.Anne Owers set of top-down targets, as you to the exclusion of patient

:09:05. > :09:08.safety -- with a set of Top Gun targets. Second, there was an

:09:08. > :09:14.attitude that patient care was always someone else's problem. In

:09:14. > :09:19.short, no one was accountable. He speaks about defensiveness and

:09:19. > :09:24.complacency. Instead of facing up to date to which should have

:09:24. > :09:27.employed a real cause for concern, Robert Francis finds that there is

:09:27. > :09:33.a culture of only explaining the positives rather than any critical

:09:33. > :09:36.analysis. Put simply, Mr Speaker... The Prime Minister making a

:09:36. > :09:40.statement on the Francis Report into the mid- Staffordshire

:09:40. > :09:44.Hospital Trust. Those who wish to see that in full can switch to be

:09:44. > :09:50.busy parliament and probably BBC News will run more of it and we

:09:50. > :09:57.have as well. He went through a catalogue of failures,

:09:57. > :10:04.institutional failures, that the inquiry identifiers. Above all it

:10:04. > :10:09.blames the Trust bought, for tolerance of poor standards. The

:10:09. > :10:15.Primary Care Trust and the strategic health authority, Monitor

:10:15. > :10:20.and other regulators, seeming to accept sub-standard care. The Royal

:10:20. > :10:24.College of Nursing is, described as ineffective. Add that together and

:10:24. > :10:30.you have what the Prime Minister and the report calls "systemic

:10:30. > :10:35.failure". I think David Cameron got to the essence of it when he said

:10:35. > :10:39.no one felt accountable. There was blurred lines of accountability and

:10:39. > :10:44.that one body thought another body was responsible and they thought

:10:44. > :10:49.somebody else was responsible. This has been a problem with the NHS all

:10:49. > :10:54.the way through. It was a problem to some extent with the Blairite

:10:54. > :10:59.reforms introduced by the previous Labour government in terms of, here

:10:59. > :11:05.is and national funded body but should politicians be responsible

:11:05. > :11:10.for the delivery of it? Not fully answered. That is not fully

:11:10. > :11:16.answered by the Andrew Lansley reforms. This is the problem. In

:11:16. > :11:19.PMQs, David Cameron says one of the other themes was we had been trying

:11:19. > :11:23.to empower patients and the mechanisms of empowerment simply

:11:23. > :11:28.have not worked. How you answer these things are massively

:11:28. > :11:32.complicated. But the problem is clear. It is a running theme, with

:11:32. > :11:36.the BBC, the police and all the other reason things. Who is

:11:36. > :11:43.accountable to whom? This is not clear enough in his publicly-funded

:11:43. > :11:47.services. It is a big, big political issue. Both this

:11:47. > :11:53.government and the last government have tried to empower patients but

:11:54. > :11:58.every time governments do, the Royal Colleges, the NHS elite,

:11:58. > :12:03.people with a vested interest, the NHS trade unions, they down every

:12:03. > :12:09.change as a threat? They claim any kind of private and market

:12:09. > :12:17.mechanism is the slippery road to a US-style private health system.

:12:17. > :12:24.These very elites, as this report has just adumbrated, they are at

:12:24. > :12:28.the centre of this. They failed. Patients in any event seemed to

:12:29. > :12:32.deferred to experts, especially if you are not articulate and July

:12:33. > :12:38.confidence. We had patients who were articulate and two were still

:12:38. > :12:43.ignored. But even staff felt there was a culture where they could not

:12:43. > :12:48.report for fear of reprisals. We have brought in legislation to

:12:48. > :12:52.protect whistleblowers but there is still a culture, staff lack the

:12:52. > :12:56.confidence to bring to management's attention some serious concerns

:12:56. > :13:02.they had. Will there be a change in public attitude as a result of

:13:02. > :13:06.this? When we stop fooling ourselves that the NHS is the envy

:13:06. > :13:11.of the world? A claim for which I have seen not a scintilla of

:13:11. > :13:16.evidence. Maybe the envy of the Third World. Not of the rest of

:13:16. > :13:22.Europe. Will we start to change our attitude, which my parents had, we

:13:22. > :13:27.are lucky to have it? And will we start demanding a lot more for the

:13:27. > :13:31.�2 billion a week we spent on it? week ought to do that but I do

:13:31. > :13:35.think you should be critical of the whole of the NHS. There are some

:13:35. > :13:40.excellent practices and parts of the NHS and if you are very

:13:40. > :13:45.seriously ill in this country you are with a better chance...

:13:45. > :13:49.Depending on hospital you get into. There were too many of these bodies,

:13:49. > :13:54.we can both agree on that politically, and nobody was in

:13:54. > :13:58.overall charge and the people felt it was going wrong were not able to

:13:58. > :14:02.do anything. We can try to give patients more information but the

:14:02. > :14:07.best answer to this is to empower the clinicians who are closest to

:14:07. > :14:11.the patients, the GPs, and from April onwards they will be able to

:14:11. > :14:16.say, we are no longer sending patients to that hospital. We are

:14:16. > :14:21.not happy with the cleanliness. We will send them to another hospital.

:14:21. > :14:27.That is fine, Michael. There is regulation for doctors and nurses,

:14:27. > :14:32.but what about the manager's? Who regulates them? Who is responsible

:14:32. > :14:38.for bad managers being sacked? We had a chief executive who is now

:14:38. > :14:41.running another energy as charity. That is the real issue. It is

:14:41. > :14:46.saying GPs hold the power and the commissioning staff and the

:14:46. > :14:56.budgets... There were too many managers. So systemic failure is

:14:56. > :15:00.

:15:00. > :15:03.coming from the management in this They might not have known about

:15:04. > :15:07.what was going on in Stafford hospital. They might have continued

:15:07. > :15:13.sending patients there, which raises another huge issue. It's

:15:13. > :15:17.about information as to what's going on inside these institutions.

:15:17. > :15:21.Mike Farrow said earlier that this is absolutely key. The whole thing

:15:21. > :15:25.needs to be opened up. Whenever a light is shone on public funded

:15:25. > :15:30.institutions, you then get upgrades to urgency, we've got to reform

:15:30. > :15:36.this. And as to this broad political question. Where do we go

:15:36. > :15:40.from here in terms of major reform? It's my sense that Labour has no

:15:40. > :15:43.grand plan in the making for reforms of the NHS, they tried that

:15:43. > :15:47.when they were in power. The Conservatives, we saw what happened

:15:47. > :15:53.to them when they tried to reform it, they are not going to go there

:15:53. > :15:56.again either. I think there will be consensus that further change is

:15:56. > :16:00.required. There needs to be a debate on what form the change

:16:00. > :16:04.takes place in. The debate in Britain has been simplistic. Reform

:16:04. > :16:09.bursars and to reform, as if there's only one set of reforms

:16:09. > :16:12.that are acceptable or Status Quo. We've got to get beyond that, to

:16:12. > :16:22.have a much subtler and more intelligent play. There's a chance

:16:22. > :16:23.

:16:23. > :16:26.of that happening in the light of these revelations. A sombre mood in

:16:26. > :16:28.the chamber for the Prime Minister's statement on the

:16:29. > :16:31.hospital and the report to date. It's not always like that. If you

:16:31. > :16:35.were watching the programme on Monday, you will have seen as

:16:35. > :16:39.talking about how loud it gets in the chamber during Prime Minister's

:16:39. > :16:44.Questions. The Speaker, John Bercow, has been complaining that its

:16:44. > :16:48.louder than a deep purple rock concert from the 1970s. But how

:16:48. > :16:52.loud is loud? If I start talking to you like this in a little whisper,

:16:53. > :16:59.then I'll be speaking at a level of 30 decibels. If I revert to my

:16:59. > :17:03.normal, loud, speech pattern, the decibel levels are around 60. But

:17:03. > :17:10.maybe it's a bit more. Prolonged exposure to noise levels above 85

:17:10. > :17:15.can cause damage to your hearing. If you are Maria Sharapova or...

:17:15. > :17:21.The undisputed queen of tennis grunts, she hits the scale at a

:17:21. > :17:26.massive 101 decibels. Watch out if you are the ballboy! A rock concert

:17:26. > :17:29.can be around 120 decibels. Two of the MPs they were talking to about

:17:29. > :17:33.noise in the chamber kindly agreed to take their mobile phones and

:17:33. > :17:43.iPad into the chamber, having downloaded and app that reads the

:17:43. > :17:48.

:17:48. > :17:54.noise levels. The Conservative... How high to the reading go? It was

:17:55. > :18:00.quite disappointing. I got to about 94. But it was a very sombre, very

:18:00. > :18:10.subdued session. I don't think I've ever been to such a well-behaved

:18:10. > :18:12.

:18:12. > :18:18.Prime Minister's Questions. Alan Cairns, did yours read any higher?

:18:18. > :18:22.I got 98 at the back. I think that came from the laughter on the

:18:22. > :18:26.question on Richard III. Because of the statement we were expecting and

:18:26. > :18:29.the seriousness of that, everyone was quite subdued. That was also

:18:29. > :18:39.after last night's vote, where there was some tension. People were

:18:39. > :18:40.

:18:40. > :18:44.may be using it as a time to take stock. It's funny that you think

:18:44. > :18:54.that is quiet. I suppose half an hour once a week isn't going to do

:18:54. > :18:58.any damage, but 90 and 98 is still very loud. I stand by everything I

:18:58. > :19:02.said on Monday about it being awful, really bolstered on the whole it is

:19:02. > :19:07.extremely Walkers. It is just a Yelling match. It is not very

:19:07. > :19:11.attractive. I'm going to carry on taking this wonderful gadget in

:19:11. > :19:21.week after week, give it another couple of weeks and we will be

:19:21. > :19:23.

:19:23. > :19:33.massively up. If it reaches 120 decibels, you are in deep purple

:19:33. > :19:34.

:19:34. > :19:37.concerts territory. I'm sure that last week it did. Last week was

:19:37. > :19:40.probably the loudest I've experienced. I asked a question in

:19:40. > :19:44.it last week, and it is the most intimidating environment, where

:19:44. > :19:47.people are shouting as you are trying to concentrate and hold your

:19:47. > :19:57.own in terms of projecting your voice and remembering your words at

:19:57. > :20:01.

:20:01. > :20:11.the same time. How can the grunting tennis player be as loud as a rock

:20:11. > :20:19.

:20:19. > :20:27.concert? It is the pitch. It's the pitch at which she grants. It is

:20:27. > :20:32.incredibly noisy. Below the gangway on both sides is quite loud. It can

:20:32. > :20:42.be incredibly noisy. If you are asking questions, you literally

:20:42. > :20:43.

:20:43. > :20:53.can't hear the questions are asked. I'm not so sure the opposite is a

:20:53. > :20:58.

:20:58. > :21:03.good idea, it completely sterile Have you ever been told off by the

:21:03. > :21:07.Speaker for speaking out loud? By both of them! A miscarriage of

:21:07. > :21:11.justice. Millions of young people are priced

:21:11. > :21:16.out of buying a home on their own. Millions more are hoping house

:21:16. > :21:21.prices remain high to prevent a slide into negative equity. Ross

:21:21. > :21:31.Clark has been looking at this for his new book, in which he

:21:31. > :21:43.

:21:43. > :21:46.emphasises how unprecedented the Houses like these in Mitcham, south

:21:46. > :21:51.London, enabled a million families to become homeowners in the great

:21:51. > :21:58.building boom between the two walls. When these houses behind me were

:21:58. > :22:04.built in the early 1930s, they cost between �315.530 pounds, which in

:22:04. > :22:12.today's money is between �18,000.30 �1,000. Yet one of these houses

:22:12. > :22:15.just down the road is now for sale for �335,000. And that is after a

:22:15. > :22:19.suppose it crash. House price inflation has made a fortune for

:22:19. > :22:23.some people but but others it has frustrated their dream of ever

:22:23. > :22:26.owning a home. Yet none of the political parties has any credible

:22:26. > :22:29.scheme for helping frustrated would-be homeowners. The

:22:29. > :22:33.coalition's says it wants to increase housebuilding by listening

:22:33. > :22:43.the planning system. We certainly need more houses, but that is only

:22:43. > :22:50.

:22:50. > :22:53.This newly built two-bedroomed home is the equivalent of the 1930s

:22:53. > :22:58.homes just down the road. But the difference is that this property is

:22:59. > :23:02.quite likely to be bought as a speculative investment. We are

:23:02. > :23:10.returning to a Victorian social structure in which a large class of

:23:10. > :23:13.tenant's rent their homes from a small class of landlords. One

:23:13. > :23:17.solution could be to place restrictive covenants on most new

:23:17. > :23:20.homes, to say they could only ever be used as owner-occupied

:23:20. > :23:30.properties. People are actually going to live in them, they could

:23:30. > :23:34.

:23:34. > :23:38.not be bought by speculators. Also, we could reduce the cost of

:23:38. > :23:42.building new homes by doing as post-war government did with the

:23:42. > :23:45.new towns. Compulsory purchase and development land at his land use

:23:45. > :23:48.valley, and in its planning permission and then selling it on

:23:48. > :23:51.to housebuilders at much lower prices than they currently have to

:23:51. > :23:59.pay for their land, taking just enough profit to pay for local

:23:59. > :24:02.infrastructure. Houses may never be as cheap again as they were 80

:24:02. > :24:06.years ago, but there's no reason why they cannot be a price which

:24:06. > :24:10.allows young people to do as they're great grandparents did,

:24:10. > :24:16.take the big step from tenants to homeowners.

:24:17. > :24:20.Ross Clark is with us now. Michael Fallon, home ownership has fallen

:24:20. > :24:23.for the first time since records began 60 years ago, Britain has the

:24:23. > :24:27.lowest rate of new home construction in almost a century -

:24:27. > :24:35.what are you doing about it? How many more homes have been built

:24:35. > :24:38.since 2010? Over 113,000 in the first year. We have plans for

:24:38. > :24:41.175,000 affordable homes. We've simplified the planning system, we

:24:41. > :24:45.are unlocking some of the rules that have prevented affordable

:24:45. > :24:49.housing being built, because these agreements were signed at the top

:24:49. > :24:53.of the boom when prices were much higher. We've got a Bill going

:24:53. > :24:57.through Parliament to unlock that now. You will see more houses being

:24:57. > :25:01.built. That is one side of it. are still not affordable for very

:25:01. > :25:05.many young people who cannot get the deposit to put down on buying a

:25:05. > :25:08.home. Do you agree with the assessment that there is now this

:25:08. > :25:12.generational gap between people who own their own homes and those who

:25:12. > :25:15.will never be able to own their own homes and will be tenants forever?

:25:16. > :25:18.That's too pessimistic. Some of the money we've made available through

:25:18. > :25:22.the funding for lending scheme is not getting through into the

:25:22. > :25:27.mortgage markets. I think you will find a better supply of mortgage

:25:27. > :25:33.finance coming through. I accept they've got to raise a higher

:25:33. > :25:37.deposit and perhaps our generation had to raise. Self-certified

:25:37. > :25:40.mortgages, some of those rules have been tightened. What do you do

:25:40. > :25:44.about house prices? Which government in its right mind is

:25:44. > :25:48.going to do anything to either freeze house prices where they are

:25:48. > :25:52.or bring them down? You can't control house prices. There are

:25:52. > :25:56.things you can do. The can increase supply. Michael, I hope you are

:25:56. > :26:00.right in relation to the figures to give but, frankly speaking, the

:26:00. > :26:04.experience of my constituency is very different than yours. I knock

:26:04. > :26:09.on doors where three generations are living in the same households,

:26:09. > :26:14.no prospect of getting up to �50,000 deposit required to buy a

:26:14. > :26:17.property in London. Our obsession with owner-occupiers is detracting

:26:17. > :26:21.from the fact there aren't enough properties to rent at affordable

:26:21. > :26:26.rates. Interest rates are low, so if you can't afford a mortgage with

:26:26. > :26:28.these interest rates and you can't afford to rent because of high

:26:28. > :26:32.rates of rent from private landlords, what are you going to

:26:32. > :26:37.do? Do you have any confidence that the situation will change

:26:37. > :26:42.dramatically? A Meikle talks about affordable housing. Affordable

:26:42. > :26:45.housing is a word which really refers to housing either for rent,

:26:45. > :26:51.for shared ownership, it's usually shared ownership property which

:26:51. > :26:53.gets the name affordable housing. I don't think people really want to

:26:53. > :27:01.buy half a house. When they set out on their career ladder, they want

:27:01. > :27:04.to buy a whole house not half a house. The point was made, does

:27:04. > :27:09.home-ownership matter? We've got this obsession with home ownership.

:27:09. > :27:12.This is an argument with turns to the advanced by people who already

:27:12. > :27:17.own their own property. It's not an argument I've ever heard for made

:27:17. > :27:21.by people in their 20s, trying to get on the housing ladder. These

:27:21. > :27:24.aren't benefit claimants, these are people in good jobs, well-paid jobs

:27:24. > :27:30.who 30 years ago would have had absolutely no problem in buying a

:27:30. > :27:35.property at all. One thing about buy-to-let, because you raised this

:27:35. > :27:38.issue about ending that sort of speculative market, which certainly

:27:38. > :27:43.boomed under Labour's time because capital gains tax came down. Would

:27:43. > :27:48.you back an option like that? buy-to-let market is reviving again

:27:48. > :27:53.now. A is that a good thing? yes, we do need people to build

:27:53. > :27:56.more properties. We are making it easier to change use, to convert

:27:56. > :28:01.from commercial premises or offices and to get that converted into

:28:01. > :28:06.housing. That is one of the answers in the very overcrowded and expense

:28:06. > :28:13.of inner-cities. A few people owning lots and lots of houses,

:28:13. > :28:16.some of our colleagues do that, but housing is affordable to all,

:28:16. > :28:21.whether to rent or own. The problem now is the supply side, it happens

:28:21. > :28:28.towards the end of our time in government... You can't sell off

:28:28. > :28:38.all the social housing... We are going to do Guess the Year. The

:28:38. > :28:42.

:28:42. > :28:47.year was 1974. Let's see who has You win the Daily Politics mug.