:00:45. > :00:48.Afternoon. Welcome to the Daily Three dead and more than 140
:00:48. > :00:51.injured, many critically, in two explosions at the Boston Marathon.
:00:51. > :00:57.We will have the latest on events there and what it means for the
:00:57. > :00:59.Thatcher funeral and the London Marathon here.
:00:59. > :01:03.The government wants to get builders building, allowing house
:01:03. > :01:07.extensions of up to 26 feet without planning permission. But their own
:01:07. > :01:11.MPs are trying to knock down their proposals.
:01:11. > :01:16.An end to scenes like this in Britain's big tops? The government
:01:16. > :01:19.brings forward a bill to ban the use wild animals in circuses.
:01:19. > :01:29.And royalty, politicians and celebs - we will look at who will be
:01:29. > :01:31.
:01:31. > :01:34.rubbing shoulders at Margaret All that in the next hour. With us
:01:34. > :01:42.for the duration, John Kampfner, journalist and campaigner on free
:01:42. > :01:47.speech. We could be doing with having a bit free speech, it is
:01:47. > :01:50.good to have you. Appalling images from Boston last night after two
:01:50. > :01:54.blasts near the finish line of the Boston Marathon. Three people were
:01:54. > :01:58.killed including an eight-year-old boy. Many others are very seriously
:01:58. > :02:01.injured. One policeman said grimly than some of those had run the
:02:01. > :02:05.marathon no longer have their legs. There are also reports that two
:02:05. > :02:09.other unexploded devices were found and disabled. But that is
:02:09. > :02:13.unconfirmed. It is the most serious terrorist attack on the US mainland
:02:13. > :02:21.since the 9/11 attacks. President Obama addressed the nation from the
:02:21. > :02:26.White House last night. We still do not know who did this or wife.
:02:26. > :02:30.People should not jump to conclusions before we have the
:02:30. > :02:36.facts but make no mistakes, we will get to the bottom of this and we
:02:36. > :02:40.will find out to do this, we will find out why they do this. Any
:02:40. > :02:47.responsible individuals, any responsible groups, will feel the
:02:47. > :02:51.full weight of justice. It was clear lap the federal government
:02:51. > :02:55.still had no idea what was behind it and that seems to be the
:02:55. > :02:58.situation this morning -- it was clear then that the federal
:02:58. > :03:01.government. A few minutes ago, I spoke to Laura
:03:01. > :03:06.Trevelyan in Boston. I started by asking her about those injured in
:03:06. > :03:13.the explosions. That is what is so horrific. Especially it took so
:03:13. > :03:17.many of the athletes I have spoken to -- especially to so many. This
:03:17. > :03:22.is the pinnacle of their athletic achievement, they train for years
:03:22. > :03:26.in many occasions, and to have people who were taking part and
:03:26. > :03:32.cheering them on, to have them robbed of their limbs, to have
:03:32. > :03:36.amputations taking place, somebody said to me he came from Canada who
:03:36. > :03:44.finished in under three hours, he said, this strikes at the very core
:03:44. > :03:50.of what we are and we are reeling. And still no firm leads as I
:03:50. > :03:56.understand it as to who was behind this? That is the question that
:03:56. > :04:00.that is being asked across America, who could have done this and why?
:04:00. > :04:04.We have another briefing from the police this morning. We were told
:04:04. > :04:10.by the leading FBI agent yesterday that this is a potential terrorist
:04:10. > :04:15.investigation. Whether that means home-grown terrorists,
:04:15. > :04:19.international extremists, we do not know, and nothing is being said
:04:19. > :04:25.publicly at the moment. But there are some interesting background
:04:25. > :04:30.points to note on the domestic front, which is that no official in
:04:30. > :04:37.forces have been noting that this is traditionally a big week for
:04:37. > :04:46.anti-government groups in America. -- Bill Law enforcement officials.
:04:46. > :04:52.We are coming up to the anniversary of the Oklahoma bombing and the
:04:52. > :04:58.Columbine massacre. But this is conjecture. What we have is the
:04:58. > :05:01.death of three people and well over 100 injured. There are some reports
:05:01. > :05:05.that two other bombs were discovered and disabled but we have
:05:05. > :05:11.not been able to confirm these reports. Do you have anything on
:05:11. > :05:14.that? That was asked last night when the police gave a press
:05:15. > :05:20.conference and they said they would not comment on whether they had
:05:20. > :05:23.found any other explosive devices. One report said the police had
:05:23. > :05:29.found five unexploded devices but that was very quickly backtracked
:05:29. > :05:34.on. As so often is the case in the aftermath, the information is
:05:34. > :05:37.contradictory, the picture is confusing, but the one thing the
:05:37. > :05:42.people of Boston know when they wake up this morning is that their
:05:42. > :05:49.beloved marathon, one of the rites of spring in New England, that day
:05:49. > :05:54.was utterly devastated. It is interesting that the police would
:05:54. > :06:00.not confirm if unexploded bombs have been disabled because if there
:06:00. > :06:05.are bombs that did not go off, they will have a veritable cornucopia of
:06:05. > :06:11.information about who might have been behind this, so that is
:06:11. > :06:14.developing story, if of course it is true. We have not been able to
:06:15. > :06:17.confirm that. I am joined now by Stephen
:06:17. > :06:23.Greenhalgh, who runs the Mayor of London's office for policing and
:06:23. > :06:31.crime. And by former Security Minister Admiral Alan West. Why
:06:31. > :06:37.would the police not confirm if other bombs had been disabled?
:06:37. > :06:40.have hit the nail on the head. When they start pulling it apart and
:06:40. > :06:45.find the components, that can give you an immense amount of detail.
:06:45. > :06:49.That is why such huge amount of effort goes into the bomb blast
:06:49. > :06:55.area to find every bit of a bomb and in this country we are
:06:55. > :06:59.amazingly good at that. It enables to find where bombs are being made,
:06:59. > :07:05.who provides components, so it is a treasure trove and that is probably
:07:05. > :07:09.the reason. Also you get so much information and a lot of this will
:07:09. > :07:14.not be correct and that is why you have to be very calm and wait until
:07:14. > :07:20.it comes in. And it is why we emphasise that the reports of
:07:21. > :07:24.unexploded bombs are unconcerned. I would suggest that if this was Al-
:07:24. > :07:32.Qaeda or something similar, or would we not have expected to have
:07:32. > :07:36.heard from them by now? We probably would have done. I personally, this
:07:36. > :07:43.is my own opinion, would be surprised if it isn't a Al-Qaeda
:07:43. > :07:52.attack. I am afraid -- I would be surprised if it is an Al-Qaeda
:07:52. > :07:57.attack. There have been many attacks I am afraid, the attacks on
:07:57. > :08:06.the Cleveland Bridge, in a high EO, but normally those sorts of
:08:06. > :08:16.bombings are against government targets -- in Ohio. This
:08:16. > :08:19.unfortunately is very like Islamic extremist terrorism. I assume that
:08:19. > :08:25.although there may be meetings about Margaret Thatcher's funeral
:08:25. > :08:28.as a result of Boston, not much more need to be done. There are
:08:28. > :08:33.comprehensive policing plans in place obviously for the funeral, as
:08:33. > :08:36.for all public events like the London Marathon. The London
:08:36. > :08:41.Marathon is in a different category from the funeral and more difficult
:08:41. > :08:44.to police, I would suggest. Absolutely because people bring
:08:45. > :08:49.things when they go running. All these things have been policed in
:08:49. > :08:53.the past and the plants are in place. The question is, what can
:08:54. > :08:59.you do more for something like the London Marathon and that is where
:08:59. > :09:04.we need everybody to be as vigilant as possible. A clearly Margaret
:09:04. > :09:08.Thatcher's funeral will be policed for a terrorist attack. Yes, there
:09:08. > :09:13.is a balance between a terrorist threat and a public order
:09:13. > :09:19.demonstration. Would we police a marathon for a terrorist attack?
:09:19. > :09:23.Any large event. The threat levels in this country are substantial,
:09:23. > :09:31.that means a strong possibility of a terrorist attack, and everything
:09:31. > :09:36.is planned on that basis. We always touch wood because you only need to
:09:36. > :09:41.be lucky ones, but we are very good at Bad And I would have no concerns
:09:41. > :09:45.about going to either of these events -- and certainly I would
:09:45. > :09:51.have no concerns. What could the police do more that they were not
:09:51. > :09:56.all would be planning to do? mayor and I have been in touch with
:09:56. > :10:00.Bernard Hogan-Howe and the good news is there are comprehensive
:10:00. > :10:05.plans in place. Clearly you can search more and you can get the
:10:05. > :10:10.help from the public. Anything that looks suspicious, anything that is
:10:10. > :10:13.concerning two people, there will be a strong police presence at both
:10:14. > :10:17.events so we need the public to play their part and we need to make
:10:17. > :10:25.sure maybe we search a bit more then we may have planned to do but
:10:25. > :10:28.the plans are in place. In a way, we have been lucky and also we have
:10:28. > :10:35.benefited from a great intelligence, because there had been so many
:10:35. > :10:38.attempts to do a Boston or a version of a Boston. What is
:10:38. > :10:42.fascinating with this is clearly their intelligence agencies had no
:10:42. > :10:46.indication whatsoever that something was going to happen and
:10:47. > :10:50.our greatest defence is the security service and police
:10:50. > :10:55.intelligence agency in this country. We monitor hundreds of people, many
:10:55. > :11:00.of whom are British, who wish to do the nation harm. We saw a case
:11:00. > :11:05.going through at the moment. That is the way we are able to prevent
:11:05. > :11:09.something happening. The dangers are there loners who we are not
:11:09. > :11:15.able to monitor. People who we do not have on file, who do it on
:11:15. > :11:18.their own bat, and also it is hard with right-wing extremists. We have
:11:18. > :11:23.had occasions in the past. In America they have a real problem
:11:23. > :11:28.with that sort of threat and they can be very violent. It is unusual
:11:28. > :11:37.they aim to kill people randomly. That is very much an Al-Qaeda way
:11:37. > :11:46.of doing things. But it was a federal building... I am struck by
:11:46. > :11:51.two words that Lord West used. Balance and calm. I was struck not
:11:51. > :11:56.just by President Obama's statement but also the Governor of
:11:56. > :12:02.Massachusetts this morning. Thankfully, in spite of the carnage
:12:02. > :12:07.and the terrible events and the pictures, I am quite reassured by
:12:08. > :12:13.the way the US administration is dealing with it, which is, this is
:12:13. > :12:17.a terrorist attack. He did not use that word. The commentators in
:12:17. > :12:23.America are wondering. It is clearly a terrorist attack but we
:12:23. > :12:30.do not know who is behind it. Why didn't he say that? Obviously this
:12:30. > :12:35.is truly awful but it is on a different scale to 9/11. A little
:12:35. > :12:41.boy was killed in Warrington, that was still a terrorist attack.
:12:41. > :12:45.said an act of terror rather than terrorism. But I was struck by the
:12:46. > :12:54.sobriety and the lack of rhetoric and flowery language that George
:12:54. > :13:01.Bush often 9/11 and this panoply. George Bush's initial reaction was
:13:01. > :13:06.to be struck dumb by the scale of it! We will leave it there. There
:13:06. > :13:10.will be more on BBC News throughout the day. Thank you for joining us.
:13:10. > :13:20.We hope tomorrow and Sunday go off in the usual British way of
:13:20. > :13:21.
:13:21. > :13:24.everything being fine. One of the key developments to
:13:24. > :13:27.emerge from the Arab Spring has been the use by activists of social
:13:27. > :13:30.media to spread revolt and bring it to the attention of the outside
:13:30. > :13:33.world. From Tunisia to Egypt to Syria, Twitter, Facebook and
:13:33. > :13:38.YouTube have allowed protesters to organise and indeed, televise their
:13:38. > :13:42.attempts to bring about regime change. But is the impact of social
:13:42. > :13:44.media on the wane and are the very governments which were once at risk
:13:44. > :13:54.from it beginning to harness its power to neutralise their
:13:54. > :14:03.
:14:03. > :14:07.These days revolutions are televised and none more so than the
:14:07. > :14:12.Arab Spring but not so much by professional correspondence as by
:14:12. > :14:17.images taken on mobile phones and activists to use social media to
:14:17. > :14:27.spread revolt. These are some of those activists talking to me
:14:27. > :14:29.
:14:29. > :14:35.directly from Syria on Skype. has happened without Facebook?
:14:35. > :14:42.is a very tiny village in the countryside but we can fill it.
:14:42. > :14:47.has taken and played a good part in the revolution. We have seen
:14:47. > :14:53.protesters using social media to mobilise, filming footage that gets
:14:53. > :14:59.picked up by film stations, Al- Jazeera, and that name gets
:14:59. > :15:03.broadcast back to the country. of the key players has been this
:15:03. > :15:06.campaigning organisation. They have helped get footage shot by
:15:06. > :15:10.protesters onto mainstream TV but they are also aware that it
:15:10. > :15:16.activists want to use social media as a weapon, so do the Government's
:15:16. > :15:20.they are trying to overthrow. of them are trying to outdo the
:15:20. > :15:26.other, regimes trying to listen in but also activists trying to
:15:26. > :15:31.increase their ability to operate without being snooped on. We are
:15:31. > :15:41.aware of drones being used in Syria. Iranians are giving support to
:15:41. > :16:14.
:16:14. > :16:15.use it in more powerful way. Footage of what is happening will be
:16:15. > :16:20.immediately available internationally and across the
:16:21. > :16:24.country itself in a way that hasn't in the case in the past. Social
:16:24. > :16:27.media didn't invent revolt but it did bring it into our living rooms
:16:27. > :16:32.in almost real time and that is a power that protesters and those they
:16:32. > :16:36.are trying to topple are desperate to harness.
:16:36. > :16:43.We are joined now by journalist Nabila Ramdani, who specialises in
:16:43. > :16:48.the Arab world, and John Kampfner, who campaigns on freedom of speech.
:16:48. > :16:54.I am going to Tunisia and Beirut soon. I'll be right to say that we
:16:54. > :16:57.remember in the early days of the Arab spring, also into an easier,
:16:57. > :17:02.social media was being used by the insurgents as a way to get their
:17:02. > :17:07.story across inland is where the media was almost entirely controlled
:17:07. > :17:12.by the state. Is it now right to say the new governments are using social
:17:12. > :17:16.media to control what gets out? Absolutely. There is no doubt that
:17:16. > :17:20.the social media was indeed a catalyst, especially at the start of
:17:20. > :17:24.the revolutions, and played a pivotal role in effectively putting
:17:24. > :17:30.the problems of the Arab world of the global agenda. Having said
:17:30. > :17:34.that, it didn't quite lead to regime change. We would be naive to assume
:17:34. > :17:41.that. It was a powerful trigger which was supported by traditional
:17:41. > :17:45.media. We are seeing now, regimes in the rest of the Arab world getting
:17:45. > :17:48.increasingly jittery about what is happening in the region, using
:17:48. > :17:56.social media to keep tabs on the activities of political dissidents
:17:56. > :18:00.will stop so that is the case in the new Egypt, where the new president
:18:00. > :18:06.is using old laws to crack down not only on traditional media but also
:18:06. > :18:11.on Internet dissidents. In Gulf countries in particular, we have
:18:11. > :18:18.well-documented evidence of Internet dissidents having been arrested,
:18:18. > :18:23.tortured and indeed jailed. In the Gulf? Countries like Bahrain, Saudi
:18:23. > :18:27.Arabia and even Qatar. Interestingly, in Syria, where
:18:27. > :18:29.Facebook was banned before the revolution, it has now been allowed
:18:29. > :18:36.by the government in order to monitor the activities of
:18:36. > :18:41.dissidents. So we are seeing how governments use social media, either
:18:41. > :18:47.to prevent dissent or put across their own messages. It is depressing
:18:47. > :18:53.in a way, because we used to think, perhaps wrongly, naively, that
:18:53. > :18:56.social media, the Internet, text in, they were kind of anarchic.
:18:56. > :19:03.Governments couldn't control them. They were the people's weapons of
:19:03. > :19:08.information. That was the great hope of the founders of the Internet. It
:19:08. > :19:12.was originally called the wild West, now it is anything but. It is right
:19:12. > :19:15.about the Middle East, but it is not just the middle east, but
:19:15. > :19:22.everywhere, Russia introduced a pretty awful Internet filtering law
:19:22. > :19:30.in November and China proselytisers, as a patriotic duty, this whole
:19:30. > :19:37.thing. It is not just monitoring what people write and what they say,
:19:37. > :19:42.it is also going into people 's computers, using technology to find
:19:42. > :19:47.out where they are, what they are doing. Your whole life is on your
:19:47. > :19:53.computer! Absolutely. Platforms are platforms, and they change behaviour
:19:53. > :19:56.through the communication. So the speed of medication has changed
:19:57. > :20:03.exponentially, being able to get people out on the streets, you can
:20:03. > :20:06.do that just like this. But I am old enough to remember, as a young
:20:06. > :20:14.journalist, I covered the fall of the Berlin Wall and the end of
:20:14. > :20:18.coming as in the Soviet Union, there was none of this. Mobile phones?
:20:18. > :20:24.Even before that period, people still got out, but it was much
:20:24. > :20:27.slower. It doesn't change behaviour but it does change the speed.
:20:27. > :20:32.not just talking about authoritarian regimes. We have to be careful in
:20:32. > :20:36.any society, we heard David Cameron calling for Twitter and Facebook to
:20:36. > :20:40.be curtailed during the London riots. London police will be
:20:40. > :20:47.monitoring social media in the run-up to tomorrow's funeral.
:20:47. > :20:51.is the issue, there are legitimate states, child pornography, everyone
:20:51. > :20:56.says it is terrible therefore we need to ban it and keep tabs on who
:20:56. > :21:02.is doing it. Terrorism, as we were discussing, copyright is a really
:21:02. > :21:08.interesting one. But what is happening, you are right, it is not
:21:08. > :21:12.just authoritarian states, in the UK we saw off to Reza maze misguided
:21:12. > :21:17.bill which would have not just been extremely intrusive in terms of
:21:17. > :21:23.tracking people, you don't just TrackBack people, you track
:21:23. > :21:31.everybody in the hope that you will find something. But is also carte
:21:31. > :21:37.blanche to the dictators. The Arab spring is 18 months old now, more
:21:37. > :21:41.than two years. Are we now in a position to say that in general, the
:21:41. > :21:46.governments that have replaced the previous governments are better, or
:21:46. > :21:52.worse, when it comes to this kind of thing? I think transitions are
:21:53. > :22:00.always chaotic and can be extremely messy. You can go backwards. I was
:22:00. > :22:06.quoting the example of Egypt's, where there is no question -- how
:22:06. > :22:11.can you go even further back than Mubarak? There is no progress. But I
:22:11. > :22:15.just want to point out the role that Google played in Egypt, when the
:22:15. > :22:20.Internet got shut down, it provided alternative services, where you
:22:20. > :22:26.could literally phone in a tweet and it could be picked up without an
:22:26. > :22:33.Internet connection needed. Will we see the similar technology being
:22:33. > :22:38.provided to Saudi Arabia? We will see. Thank you for being with us.
:22:38. > :22:43.So, it is the London Marathon on Sunday, an event that is going to
:22:43. > :22:49.feel the impact of last nights events in Boston. A number of MPs
:22:49. > :22:54.will be running, Adam is outside Parliament with a couple of them.
:22:54. > :22:57.Normally it would be traditional to have a bunch of MPs at this time of
:22:58. > :23:04.year to have MPs in their running shoes during a photocall. That has
:23:04. > :23:08.been postponed in respect to people in Boston. But I am joined by two
:23:08. > :23:14.MPs who will be running around London this weekend, Nicky Morgan
:23:14. > :23:17.and Jim Murphy. We will talk about your preparations in a second, but
:23:17. > :23:23.first of all, Boston, what did you think I'm a knowing you will be
:23:23. > :23:27.running a marathon in a couple of days time? Just tragic. Everyone
:23:27. > :23:31.says the atmosphere will be amazing, at the finish line, there are lots
:23:31. > :23:36.of people waiting there, carnival atmosphere, completely ruined within
:23:36. > :23:41.a matter of seconds. We were looking forward to it and now Sunday is
:23:41. > :23:43.going to have a lot more poignancy for everyone running. A lot of
:23:43. > :23:49.people talking about how preparations for the London Marathon
:23:49. > :23:53.will be different, how do you think they will be affected? It is too
:23:53. > :23:56.early to say who carried out the atrocity, but I think it is right
:23:56. > :24:01.for the security forces here to look again and look afresh at whatever
:24:01. > :24:06.arrangements they can look at in terms of the security. But it is
:24:06. > :24:11.very difficult, it is an open cities, 26 miles, hundreds of
:24:11. > :24:15.thousands of spectators, free access along the roads. My response is
:24:15. > :24:22.initially a sense of shock but it is now determination. I have never run
:24:22. > :24:26.a marathon before, and I really want to do it, after Boston, I have never
:24:26. > :24:30.been more certain that I do want to run a marathon. That is my message
:24:30. > :24:36.to everyone who is thinking of running. My inclination is, don't
:24:36. > :24:41.let it put you off. Whoever carried that attack out should not dictate
:24:41. > :24:46.to us in the UK how we live our lives. Come, spectate, participate,
:24:46. > :24:50.run your best, that is my message. Thank you to those reactions. In
:24:50. > :24:54.terms of your preparations, how has the training been going? It has been
:24:54. > :25:00.all right. I'm grateful that we have had Parliament in recess for a
:25:00. > :25:05.couple of weeks, it has given me a chance to run during the day.
:25:05. > :25:11.Sometimes you are trying to combine it all the parliamentary duties. I
:25:11. > :25:16.have done 26 miles, I should be running, they ask you to taper off
:25:16. > :25:20.for the last few days. But it is excitement mixed with nervousness. I
:25:20. > :25:24.have never done a full marathon before, I have done a couple of half
:25:24. > :25:30.marathons, the thought of getting to 13 miles and then having another 13
:25:30. > :25:40.to do is really quite something! People always give you advice, what
:25:40. > :25:40.
:25:40. > :25:46.is the best bit of advice you have had? Don't do it!Too late! There is
:25:46. > :25:52.an endless amount of advice. My advice is, don't take any advice. On
:25:52. > :25:58.all these online running blogs, they say concentrate on your breathing.
:25:58. > :26:04.My arms move this way, I know how to move my arms! Land your weight on
:26:04. > :26:08.this but, I know how to do all that, but I have been bamboozled. How do I
:26:08. > :26:14.breathe, how do I move my arms? Forget all that, do what comes
:26:14. > :26:23.naturally. But they can ignore that advice as well! Are you prepared for
:26:23. > :26:27.the wall? I am hoping I just get through it. I have been training in
:26:27. > :26:35.Glasgow at strange times at night when the kids go to bed. I am ready
:26:35. > :26:41.for anything! Good luck on Sunday, we will be watching. Shall we have
:26:41. > :26:46.our usual fish and chips for lunch? I will look forward to that! I think
:26:46. > :26:52.that advice, don't do it, is pretty good advice, I am going to follow
:26:52. > :26:58.it! Though running in Glasgow the two hours in the middle of the
:26:58. > :27:01.night, brave man... Our home is our castle, and we are in love with home
:27:01. > :27:05.improvement and DIY programmes. The government wants to help us along by
:27:05. > :27:10.making it easier for us to extend them and in the process give the
:27:10. > :27:14.building sector and economy eight used. Ministers announced last year
:27:14. > :27:20.that they intended a three-year relaxation of the depth of allowed
:27:20. > :27:26.single-storey extensions, from 13 feet to 26 feet four detached houses
:27:26. > :27:30.and from ten feet to 20 feet fall of the houses. Critics argue that this
:27:30. > :27:35.relaxation of planning rules will lead to a rise in disputes between
:27:35. > :27:40.neighbours. The policy has also led to a dispute between the planning
:27:41. > :27:43.minister and some Tory and Lib Dem MPs. Today they will vote for an
:27:43. > :27:51.amendment which would give local authorities the option of projecting
:27:51. > :27:53.the new rules in their area. -- rejecting the new rules. We asked
:27:54. > :27:59.the government for a minister to defend their plans but no one was
:27:59. > :28:05.available. Probably building their conservatories! Joining me to
:28:05. > :28:11.discuss this are one of the rebel MPs, and Brian Berry from the
:28:12. > :28:15.Federation of Master Builders. What is wrong with this? I think the
:28:15. > :28:19.clear position is that if you want to put an extension made Robert E,
:28:19. > :28:22.the first thing you do is talk to your neighbours, and the second
:28:22. > :28:25.thing you do is make sure you have an architect or builder who is
:28:26. > :28:29.properly qualified to do the job, advise you what the planning
:28:29. > :28:34.authority will allow and submit an application which will hopefully
:28:34. > :28:39.sail through and you will get approval. In 87% of the cases where
:28:39. > :28:44.we talk about these extensions, that is approved to stop it costs people
:28:44. > :28:48.roughly �250 for an application. The government is proposing to relax the
:28:48. > :28:54.rules which will allow people to do permitted development, don't bother
:28:54. > :28:56.talking to your neighbours, build what you want within the rules, and
:28:56. > :29:02.hopefully you will apply for a certificate of lawful development.
:29:02. > :29:06.The problem is that you pay a fee for that and the builder has long
:29:06. > :29:16.gone, you are left with an extension that probably doesn't fit the
:29:16. > :29:17.
:29:17. > :29:21.rules, you may have to take it down or skeleton act. -- scale it back.
:29:21. > :29:26.If 80% and percent of these applications are approved, why do we
:29:26. > :29:32.need to change? I think we need to have fixed ability for homeowners.
:29:32. > :29:37.But if 87% are approved, haven't we got that fixed ability? We want to
:29:37. > :29:40.make the planning system simpler and easier for householders, this is an
:29:40. > :29:47.option where people can extend their properties, it is only
:29:47. > :29:51.single-storey. We're talking three metres for a terraced house. You
:29:51. > :29:56.will still need to have welding control to check it, it is not a
:29:56. > :30:03.question of building it without any control -- building control. Also
:30:04. > :30:08.the cost can mount up to �2000 in certain cases. It is higher than
:30:08. > :30:14.that if you want planning permission. Surely it is only right
:30:14. > :30:18.that people who want to extend their homes they have the right to do so.
:30:18. > :30:22.If you put a planning application in, the local authority will consult
:30:22. > :30:25.the neighbours and in the neighbours get the chance to say, this is going
:30:25. > :30:30.to be overbearing, it will take my light away, invaded by a provision.
:30:30. > :30:34.If you stay lit back, I'm happy to compromise. What will happen under
:30:34. > :30:39.these proposals is they will be no consultation with the neighbours.
:30:39. > :30:42.There was never a week went by without me having to deal with a
:30:42. > :30:46.planning application where somebody wanted to put an extension on the
:30:46. > :30:56.neighbours disputed it. What happens with the authority is they then
:30:56. > :31:02.
:31:02. > :31:06.mediate. People have the right to If I looked out of my back window
:31:06. > :31:12.one morning and discovered something that was 26 ft have been
:31:12. > :31:15.built next door to me, I would be a bit miffed. Most people want to
:31:15. > :31:21.have good relations with their neighbours so they are going to
:31:21. > :31:27.talk to their neighbours. The have not met my neighbours. We have a
:31:27. > :31:33.housing crisis in this country. We are only building half the number
:31:33. > :31:37.of houses required. People cannot afford to move and need to have
:31:37. > :31:46.that flexibility. If we are putting in relaxation to extend the
:31:46. > :31:51.property, single-storey, that has to be a good thing. Your government
:31:51. > :31:56.says we need more building jobs, it will help get the economy going, it
:31:56. > :32:04.will be small businesses doing this, and that will put money in people's
:32:04. > :32:07.pockets, and also a lot of people cannot afford to move. I would
:32:08. > :32:12.completely agree and if we had a position where home improvements
:32:12. > :32:18.were stalled, but we are talking about 90% of the applications
:32:18. > :32:25.sailing through. It depends on the local authority you live in. The
:32:25. > :32:29.lots and lots... We also have a lot of people who buy up property is
:32:29. > :32:33.especially in London and then they put on the maximum possible
:32:34. > :32:39.extension, they let out the premises and pile people into
:32:39. > :32:44.living is extensions in a very unacceptable manner. This is for
:32:44. > :32:49.England only. This seems a random measure. What we need is more homes
:32:49. > :32:54.in this country and also of the worst manifestation of planning
:32:54. > :33:00.laws and bureaucracy are our big infrastructure projects. Look how
:33:00. > :33:08.long in London it has taken to get cross roll up and running, 20 years.
:33:08. > :33:14.I broke the story in 1986! CrossRail. If we want to get the
:33:14. > :33:20.economy going, we have to get going on infrastructure, railway lines,
:33:20. > :33:27.the get the country running in terms of the grand projects, as the
:33:27. > :33:31.French call them. But we do need to build more homes. I would love to
:33:31. > :33:35.see the government kick-start the housing market. Why don't the
:33:35. > :33:40.builders just get on with it? First-time buyers find it very hard
:33:40. > :33:44.because of the lack of mortgage availability. Another thing to help
:33:44. > :33:50.the building industry would be to reduce VAT on repair and
:33:50. > :33:56.maintenance to 5%. We each they did in France. Yes and it was a fiscal
:33:56. > :34:00.success. If the government was very serious I think we need to see
:34:00. > :34:06.attempts to kick-start the housing market. Her will win on the
:34:06. > :34:13.politics of this? We will see what happens. -- who will win? Labour
:34:13. > :34:18.are backing you? About 20 Tories are backing us and some Lib Dems. I
:34:18. > :34:22.will vote against. I am voting in favour of the amendment that went
:34:22. > :34:29.through in the House of Lords which allows local authorities to set
:34:29. > :34:34.their own rules. Good local list policy. But it will never happen!
:34:34. > :34:37.We have a contradiction here. have to leave it there.
:34:37. > :34:41.At one time, no self-respecting circus master would be without an
:34:41. > :34:49.elephant, tiger or lion in their big-top. But in recent years the
:34:49. > :34:51.practice has diminished. In Britain only a handful of circuses use wild
:34:51. > :34:55.animals and revelations of cruel treatment of those animals has
:34:55. > :34:58.increased pressure for an outright ban. Today the government has
:34:58. > :35:01.outlined plans to introduce such a ban after pressure from MPs on all
:35:01. > :35:08.sides, not least the Conservative backbencher Mark Pritchard, who
:35:08. > :35:13.faced considerable resistance from Number 10. I was told unless I
:35:13. > :35:20.withdraw this motion that the Prime Minister himself said that he would
:35:20. > :35:26.look upon it very dimly indeed. Will I have a message for the whips
:35:26. > :35:30.and for the Prime Minister of our country. I have a message. I may
:35:30. > :35:34.just be a little council house lad from a very poor background but
:35:34. > :35:39.that background gives me a backbone and a thick skin and I am not going
:35:39. > :35:42.to be kowtowed by the whips or even the Prime Minister of my country on
:35:42. > :35:47.an issue that I feel passionately about and that I have conviction
:35:47. > :35:53.about! And Mark Prichard is with me now.
:35:53. > :35:57.The lad from the council house. Are you getting your way? I am
:35:57. > :36:03.delighted that the government is finally bringing about the ban. The
:36:03. > :36:09.last government did not do it. Credit to this government, it is
:36:09. > :36:14.introducing a ban from 2015. It is a great day for animal welfare.
:36:14. > :36:19.Newspapers like the Independent, my constituents have been a support,
:36:19. > :36:25.animal welfare charities, and the government has listened to the
:36:25. > :36:28.public opinion. 96% want to see an outright ban. A good day for Animal
:36:28. > :36:35.Welfare, a good day for the government because the government
:36:35. > :36:39.has listened. But on that clip, the heavies were putting the moves on
:36:39. > :36:46.you to stop you proselytising this idea. Now you say the government is
:36:46. > :36:49.for it? What changed? The government to the view that the
:36:49. > :36:55.unanimous support of the House of Commons mattered. They said they
:36:55. > :36:58.would respect the will of parliament. They have taken on
:36:59. > :37:03.board public opinion. A lot of people have written to Number Ten
:37:03. > :37:08.since that debate setting out their own views. A lot of us have been
:37:08. > :37:13.working behind the scenes and with ministers and officials but credit
:37:13. > :37:19.where it is due, the government has listened. The last government did
:37:19. > :37:24.not bring forward a ban. Where is the politics and where is the
:37:24. > :37:34.policy in trying to stop you doing what you were trying to do? Why
:37:34. > :37:35.
:37:35. > :37:40.were they so upset? That is still a mystery. But that is history.
:37:40. > :37:43.but why? That is a question for historians and distinguished
:37:43. > :37:48.journalists. I respect the whips but I am not afraid of them and
:37:48. > :37:53.they know that. Many of them have moved into ministerial positions
:37:53. > :37:58.now so we have a different whips office but I think the whips
:37:58. > :38:06.realised, most of them realise if they are sensible, it is best to
:38:06. > :38:11.work alongside colleagues wherever possible without resorting to
:38:11. > :38:17.alternative tactics that are sometimes unhelpful. It must mean
:38:17. > :38:21.the end of circuses as we know them. Not at all. There are many
:38:21. > :38:30.successful commercial circuses around the world, Cirque du Soleil
:38:30. > :38:34.of, and Bolivia has just banned wild animals in circuses, Austria...
:38:34. > :38:44.The French banned it some time ago. I am sure somebody but e-mail if I
:38:44. > :38:44.
:38:44. > :38:50.am wrong. -- will send any now. the idea of a circus that we see in
:38:50. > :38:55.the movies, the Billy Smart's Circus stuff, which we see in many
:38:55. > :39:01.movies, that will be over. That might seem quaint and I remember
:39:01. > :39:04.when I was young I was dragged along to circuses, but a lot of
:39:04. > :39:11.these animals are transported and house in cramped and cool
:39:11. > :39:18.conditions. I am not arguing that. What will happen to the elephants?
:39:18. > :39:22.I do not accept it will be the end of circuses. As we know it.Yes,
:39:22. > :39:27.they will develop in a new way and change the way they do things.
:39:27. > :39:32.will happen to the animals? I hope they will be put in to rescue
:39:32. > :39:37.centres and rehoused. Does the legislation take care of that?
:39:37. > :39:42.These details will be worked out with DEFRA, but from 2015 onwards,
:39:42. > :39:47.we will not have a new generation of wild animals exploited for
:39:47. > :39:50.profit in this country. It is a good day for animal welfare and for
:39:51. > :39:55.the party of William Wilberforce, it is a proud day for the
:39:55. > :39:58.Conservative Party. Thank you. Well we have had the late-night
:39:58. > :40:02.deal, the criticism from the papers, and delight from the celebrities
:40:02. > :40:07.they tormented. Next month the Queen will sign off a new regime
:40:07. > :40:10.that is supposed to regulate the press. But not everyone is happy
:40:10. > :40:15.and it is going to take a lot convince editors, from the
:40:15. > :40:18.Telegraph to the Guardian, to sign up to the new system. Three of the
:40:18. > :40:21.main players who agreed the deal are before MPs at the Culture,
:40:21. > :40:28.Media and Sport Committee this morning. Let's see what has been
:40:28. > :40:32.said. The work that has been done since November will mean that there
:40:32. > :40:37.is a very strong reason why either press of this country would want to
:40:37. > :40:44.take part in this new system of self regulation. There are clear
:40:44. > :40:49.incentives and clear disincentives for not taking part Rostock that is
:40:49. > :40:56.the premise that Lord Justice Leveson set out in his report, that
:40:56. > :41:01.is what we followed. We believe very strongly that the system that
:41:01. > :41:04.we have discussed in parliament on a number of occasions will provide
:41:04. > :41:08.absolutely the right basis for us to move forward on. We are
:41:08. > :41:15.convinced that this is the right way forward and that the press will
:41:15. > :41:18.want to take part in it. It seems to me it a dereliction of duty not
:41:18. > :41:23.to think through the consequences of people not signing up to
:41:23. > :41:29.something. In industry, if somebody showed that level of lack of
:41:29. > :41:36.foresight and planning, I would not be particularly encouraged. The we
:41:36. > :41:42.disagree. We are optimists about the press. We think they will come
:41:42. > :41:48.forward and set up a regulatory body and seek recognition. We would
:41:48. > :41:53.like to have confidence... This is not about what the press and
:41:53. > :41:59.politicians want, it is about the victims to deserve protection and
:41:59. > :42:03.there must be a momentum. Have you any doubts that we will get to
:42:03. > :42:08.completion with this? We will certainly get to a conclusion
:42:08. > :42:11.because we will set up a charter that will have a recognition panel
:42:11. > :42:15.and that will lead to the incentives for people to want to
:42:15. > :42:19.take part in this process. One of the most vocal campaigners
:42:20. > :42:22.for regulation of the press is the Labour MP Chris Bryant. He told the
:42:22. > :42:29.Leveson Inquiry about how his private life had been splashed all
:42:29. > :42:34.over the tabloids and he joins me now. John Kampfner is still with us.
:42:34. > :42:43.It looks like you have called a party and nobody is coming. That is
:42:44. > :42:48.one way of putting it! No, I disagree. The Royal Charter has not
:42:48. > :42:53.actually gone to the privy council yet. That will happen in May. The
:42:53. > :42:58.legislation has not got Royal Assent yet. Until those two things
:42:58. > :43:01.are in place it will be too early to decide. We learned this morning
:43:01. > :43:06.that the government is not even in discussions with the newspapers
:43:06. > :43:11.about what to do next to. I think the government should be in
:43:11. > :43:16.discussions. Everybody agrees, including the newspaper owners, but
:43:16. > :43:23.the PCC was inappropriate, it did not meet the needs of the families
:43:23. > :43:28.in Hills's brother, a carcass other people, -- countless other people,
:43:28. > :43:32.like Christopher Jefferies and so many other people. I think if the
:43:32. > :43:37.press are honest, I hope they will sit down and look at what they can
:43:37. > :43:41.do to abide by this but not least because that is what most punters
:43:41. > :43:47.to buy their newspapers want and what operates in Ireland, in the
:43:47. > :43:51.Republic of Ireland. But without anybody moaning! Except that the
:43:51. > :43:56.government want to toughen it up. One newspaper executive said to me
:43:56. > :44:04.this morning that his fear is that the ratchet only goes one way. This
:44:04. > :44:10.will never be lighter and. Are no, no. I have heard all the hyperbole.
:44:10. > :44:17.I have never read so much hyperbole in my life. But you go to party
:44:17. > :44:21.conference! He just listen to them! -- you just listen! I thought the
:44:21. > :44:27.press did itself an enormous disservice when it ran all these
:44:27. > :44:31.articles for days on end, I mean, self-serving. If a journalist ever
:44:31. > :44:37.accuses me of being self-serving again I was slapped them up round
:44:37. > :44:45.the face with a hat-trick. I don't think that is allowed!
:44:45. > :44:50.Metaphorically. But you are in some trouble. Never mind the Daily Mail,
:44:50. > :44:57.the Telegraph, even the Times. As things stand, you can't even get
:44:57. > :45:01.the Guardian to sign up to this. as far as I know. I am not involved
:45:01. > :45:08.in these discussions. I hope the government will pursue what we have
:45:08. > :45:12.got to do. We have got to get the Privy charted in place. All the
:45:12. > :45:15.press campaigned vigorously against a legislative solution but remember
:45:16. > :45:20.the Prime Minister said if nobody ended up signing up to this, they
:45:20. > :45:26.would have to go to the previous version, which is everything under
:45:26. > :45:30.Ofcom, which nobody wants. I would say to the press, you said you
:45:30. > :45:34.wanted a better organisation and the PCC, you admitted it did not do
:45:34. > :45:39.the job, I think there is an interest of the press at a time
:45:40. > :45:43.when, how much of the press will be with us in 15 years' time is on my
:45:43. > :45:53.mind, how can you make sure you have a cheaper system of redress
:45:53. > :46:01.
:46:01. > :46:07.many readers will think they are above the law, they are too
:46:07. > :46:11.powerful. There is a lot of common ground and all of this, I would
:46:11. > :46:15.agree with it. Everybody thinks that what happened with phone hacking was
:46:15. > :46:19.wrong, most of it was criminal. Most of it could and should have been
:46:19. > :46:28.dealt with by the police but they were far too in hock to newspaper
:46:28. > :46:32.bosses. Leveson was a good enquiry, I appeared before it twice. I have
:46:32. > :46:36.respect for the process, many of the conclusions are across the board
:46:36. > :46:42.agreed, the old regulator wasn't working, we need a better regulated.
:46:42. > :46:52.What you do not do, however, after an enquiry that took a year, is,
:46:52. > :46:53.
:46:53. > :47:00.with a three a.m. Deal with a whole random bunch of people, you include
:47:00. > :47:04.members of campaigns, the lobby organisation that was having a
:47:04. > :47:07.respectable position, but the analogy I would draw would be that
:47:07. > :47:17.you have the Northern Ireland peace negotiations and you involve the
:47:17. > :47:19.
:47:19. > :47:25.Catholics and not the Protestants. Hang on, to be fair, we have no idea
:47:26. > :47:28.what meetings there were between government and press at the time.
:47:28. > :47:34.Because the government refuses to publish them. They are only
:47:34. > :47:36.publishing the meetings they had up to last September. Let me answer the
:47:36. > :47:46.important question, which is the point that everything was
:47:46. > :47:50.
:47:50. > :47:53.illegal... Not everything. And that the regulator was poor. Part of the
:47:53. > :47:57.problem was that the press believed they were above the law, and they
:47:57. > :48:01.didn't care they were breaking the law. It is the same issue now. The
:48:01. > :48:05.law has been written, and that is why, I think, there is a lot of
:48:05. > :48:13.common ground. Nobody is trying to create a body where positions tell
:48:13. > :48:22.the press what is written and what is not working. What was agreed at
:48:22. > :48:26.that meeting was tougher than what Leveson originally wanted. Not just
:48:26. > :48:34.tougher, but also shoddy. They were saying, can you throw in a bit of
:48:34. > :48:37.Internet. I have been critical of the process because I think the
:48:37. > :48:41.Prime Minister should have been hands-on, I think it was bizarre
:48:41. > :48:51.that he delegated it to live in Edwin, I think I was critical
:48:51. > :48:56.
:48:56. > :49:00.about... It changes Leveson, because a lot of people, it should be off,.
:49:00. > :49:09.On who approves the code, on the form of apologies, it goes way
:49:09. > :49:14.beyond... I would not say that it is more aggressive than Leveson.
:49:14. > :49:22.Leveson was absolutely clear it had to be an independent body, where you
:49:22. > :49:27.didn't have the press marking its own homework. But there are busy
:49:27. > :49:30.newspaper organisations that have a vested interest that got themselves
:49:31. > :49:35.into this situation, you also have newspaper editors on the right side
:49:35. > :49:39.of this debate. As Andrew says, they are all uncomfortable, not just with
:49:39. > :49:46.the result but with the process that led to the results. You now have the
:49:46. > :49:54.worst of all worlds, where nobody wants to sign up to what is
:49:54. > :49:59.effectively a dog's breakfast. not a dog's breakfast, the vast
:49:59. > :50:02.majority of people in this country want a press that is able to be wild
:50:02. > :50:06.coming Justin, exciting, entertaining, all the rest of it.
:50:06. > :50:12.Nobody wants to see state censorship and everybody wants to see a fairer
:50:12. > :50:20.system of redress, and I think it is now incumbent on the press to set
:50:20. > :50:29.down and say, how can we make what we have got work? Didn't you
:50:29. > :50:31.describe real titres as an autocratic rule? -- Royal charters.
:50:31. > :50:41.I wasn't in favour of this process, I would have preferred straight
:50:41. > :50:45.
:50:45. > :50:55.legislation. Just behave, Andrew! You are regulated! Broadcasting is
:50:55. > :50:57.
:50:57. > :51:05.regulating stop -- is regulated. have run out of time. I do
:51:05. > :51:14.apologise, my lord. You should take your forelock, you didn't have a
:51:14. > :51:17.forelock! Final depressions are taking place for the funeral of
:51:18. > :51:21.Baroness Thatcher tomorrow, and MPs are debating whether to cancel Prime
:51:21. > :51:27.Minister's questions in order to allow them to attend. Dennis Skinner
:51:27. > :51:30.and the Respect MP George Galloway have objected to the proposals. What
:51:30. > :51:36.are they up to and will they succeed? Parliament will be
:51:36. > :51:41.presenting different faces below and above ground this afternoon. We will
:51:41. > :51:46.see Lady Thatcher's coughing come to the chapel, where there will be a
:51:46. > :51:51.short service and MPs and peers will be able to go and pay their
:51:51. > :51:54.respects. Quite possibly, while some of that is happening, there will be
:51:54. > :51:58.this debate about whether or not there should be a delay in
:51:58. > :52:04.proceedings until after the funeral is over. I have been speaking to
:52:04. > :52:08.Dennis Skinner, he is very angry about how a lot of this has gone. He
:52:08. > :52:13.says, why couldn't we have had a vote on this, why is money being
:52:14. > :52:18.spent when we have concerns about austerity? I have spoken to lots of
:52:18. > :52:21.people in labours ranks, including Glenda Jackson, the MP who had a lot
:52:21. > :52:26.to say during the tribute abates, none of them have confirmed to me
:52:26. > :52:34.that they will be voting with Dennis Skinner yet. She says she's yet to
:52:34. > :52:42.make up her mind. As far as I understand it, they will not be a
:52:42. > :52:45.Prime Minister's questions tomorrow? They will not be, and
:52:45. > :52:51.ultimately, Labour will go along with the government, insured. What
:52:51. > :52:57.all this means is that on the Eve of Lady Thatcher 's funeral, at a time
:52:57. > :53:02.when people have been saying that there has been too much difference,
:53:02. > :53:06.there will be time set aside in the House of Commons for those who feel
:53:06. > :53:10.most vehemently and angrily about her legacy to have their say. I
:53:10. > :53:17.think those two shy and retiring characters you mentioned may take
:53:17. > :53:21.the opportunity to do just that. The funeral will start at Saint
:53:21. > :53:23.Pauls at 11 a.m. Tomorrow. Central London Road will be closed and 50
:53:23. > :53:26.bus routes will be disrupted as dignitaries from around the world
:53:26. > :53:32.will rub shoulders with the chefs, celebrities and people who worked
:53:32. > :53:35.with Margaret Thatcher. As well as Mr Cameron, the service will be
:53:35. > :53:40.attended by all living former prime ministers, and they will be joined
:53:40. > :53:46.by figures including the former South African leader FW de Klerk, a
:53:46. > :53:54.key figure at the end of apartheid, and Newt Gingrich, the Republican
:53:54. > :53:59.speaker in the mid-19 90s. But it is not just politicians, actors, chefs,
:53:59. > :54:06.singers and broadcasters have also been invited. Michael Crawford plans
:54:06. > :54:10.to be there as does Michael Portillo. They will be joined by Top
:54:10. > :54:12.Gear presenter Jeremy Clarkson and the recently departed US Secretary
:54:12. > :54:19.of State and maybe the next president of the US, Hillary
:54:19. > :54:29.Clinton. Joining me to discuss the seating plans, former Tory MP Gyles
:54:29. > :54:33.Brandreth and Dr Eliza Filby. How do they work out who sits where?
:54:33. > :54:39.imagine I will be sitting right at the back, behind a pillar? But it
:54:39. > :54:43.will be an honour to be there. It is a funeral, but you and I, we know
:54:43. > :54:47.Carol Thatcher, she is the daughter. Losing your mother is a
:54:47. > :54:51.complicated thing, a difficult thing, even when the mother is old
:54:51. > :54:57.and has been frail poor thing -- for years. Some of the writing about it
:54:57. > :55:02.at either turned into a jamboree or like a royal wedding, who will
:55:02. > :55:06.receive their? We have to remember, it is a funeral. It is also a
:55:06. > :55:10.ceremonial funeral. What I like about the list is as well as the
:55:10. > :55:14.great political figures of her day, there are people that over the
:55:14. > :55:22.years, particularly in the 23 years since she left office, when she had
:55:22. > :55:26.no active on a six in her life, she had to have other resources. -- no
:55:26. > :55:33.active politics. She met people who were good companions along the way.
:55:33. > :55:39.Quite a few of those will be there, Joan Collins, Jeremy Clarkson.
:55:39. > :55:43.won't have been a funeral like this since Sir Winston Churchill? It is
:55:43. > :55:50.the obvious parallel, but there will not be the same pomp and
:55:50. > :56:00.circumstance. I think Churchill's death was two days of natural
:56:00. > :56:01.
:56:01. > :56:10.morning, he lay in state for three days... I ran with the cranes, when
:56:10. > :56:14.he went down the river. It wouldn't be... It will not be the same as
:56:14. > :56:23.Churchill's, but the other parallel is Clement Attlee. She is lauded as
:56:23. > :56:28.written is greatest peacetime Prime Minister -- Britain's greatest
:56:28. > :56:33.peacetime promised. But his was very sedate. The only connection with the
:56:33. > :56:42.fact that he had been Prime Minister was the recent underbody coughing
:56:42. > :56:52.which was from the flowers of checkers. He built Britain's welfare
:56:52. > :56:54.
:56:54. > :56:57.state and nuclear deterrent. element of history here is that this
:56:58. > :57:02.is Britain's first woman prime minister. The people of my daughters
:57:02. > :57:07.generation, they take it for granted, what Thatcher achieved. But
:57:07. > :57:12.there she was, getting to Oxford in the 1940s, becoming an MP in the
:57:12. > :57:15.1950s, these were a remarkable thing for a woman to do, and then becoming
:57:15. > :57:22.prime minister. The service is going to be a spiritual, nonpolitical
:57:22. > :57:26.affair. She was serious about her method is as a girl and being a
:57:26. > :57:35.member of the Church of England as an adult and that will be remembered
:57:35. > :57:41.in the service. Francis Maude said that Tony Blair should be afforded a
:57:41. > :57:45.state funeral when the time comes... To me, what happened to good old
:57:46. > :57:49.British restraint? Everything seems to be in this post Diana
:57:49. > :57:57.environment, hyperbolic, grandiose, I am not making a blizzard will
:57:57. > :58:00.point. But if you think about the 19th-century, you had the Duke of
:58:00. > :58:09.Wellington, even Gladstone, who didn't want a great pageant, there
:58:09. > :58:11.were no military connections with it at all, he still lay in state.
:58:11. > :58:18.got 13,000 people into St Paul's for the Duke of Wellington, health and
:58:18. > :58:22.safety would never allow that now! So you are saying, a final word on
:58:22. > :58:29.this, you are saying that in the 19th century we actually did going
:58:29. > :58:35.to these big things? The 19th century was the age of ceremony and
:58:36. > :58:38.deference. Churchill's funeral, which was the obvious parallel, was
:58:38. > :58:45.symbolic because it was the end of Churchill's England, the end of