:00:47. > :00:52.Good afternoon, welcome to the Daily Politics. Business goes into
:00:52. > :00:56.battle over Britain's future in Europe as a new group of corporate
:00:56. > :01:00.bosses calls for a renegotiation and launches a fightback against
:01:00. > :01:04.pro-European businessmen. It is another big week for the
:01:04. > :01:10.economy. Will it be a return to growth or a triple dip recession?
:01:10. > :01:20.How many Romanians and Bulgarians will come to Britain next year?
:01:20. > :01:24.And a senior politician says it feels like MPs are hardly working.
:01:24. > :01:29.We will ask our Westminster columnist if that is right.
:01:29. > :01:31.With us for the first half of the programme is the transport
:01:31. > :01:41.commentated Christian Wolmar. If you have any thoughts or comments
:01:41. > :01:43.
:01:43. > :01:48.on anything we are discussing, you can send them to ask. Let's start
:01:48. > :01:52.with immigration. Surveys commissioned by BBC Newsnight in
:01:52. > :01:57.Bulgaria and Romania suggest the removing of the work restrictions
:01:57. > :02:02.in 2013 has not yet had an impact on numbers of people planning to
:02:02. > :02:06.move to the UK or do you. However, over 70% of the Romanians intending
:02:06. > :02:11.to come to Britain said their decisions would be affected by the
:02:11. > :02:18.toughening up of benefit rules. We are joined by Stuart Jackson,
:02:18. > :02:27.Conservative MPs. Are these scare stories not over-egging the issue?
:02:27. > :02:31.No, I do not think the legitimate concerns of many people, and my
:02:31. > :02:37.organisation has generally got the statistics right, I do not think
:02:37. > :02:39.the Conservatives, my colleagues and others such as migration what
:02:39. > :02:44.have been over-egging it. We have had three years since this
:02:44. > :02:49.Government took office to look seriously at the democratic changes,
:02:49. > :02:54.the welfare benefits, health and housing and those issues. It feels
:02:54. > :02:58.like we are playing catch-up. I agree the Government are tougher,
:02:58. > :03:04.but I still challenge the methodology used by these surveys.
:03:04. > :03:07.We simply do not know. If we do not know, surely talking about it and
:03:07. > :03:12.talking in terms of huge numbers or the risk of huge numbers coming in
:03:12. > :03:18.are scare stories. The Government does not want to make any estimates
:03:18. > :03:22.because they cannot make accurate estimates. That is a problem of our
:03:22. > :03:28.politics and our governments. We do not have to look to the teacher and
:03:28. > :03:32.guests, we can look at the past. The LSE's said they were going to
:03:32. > :03:36.be 13,000 workers coming in 2004 and well over 1 million came and
:03:36. > :03:40.they put big strains on the public services on housing and health and
:03:40. > :03:45.on education. We need to be mindful of that when we are talking about
:03:45. > :03:49.scare stories. Although the economy was booming and many people want to
:03:49. > :03:54.those workers to fill posts that could not be filled by people
:03:54. > :03:58.already living here. Labour also opted out of the moratorium which
:03:58. > :04:03.they conceded was wrong. Are you worried about the lifting of work
:04:03. > :04:07.restrictions? No, clearly this survey says not many Romanians and
:04:07. > :04:13.Bulgarians are going to come here. That is hardly surprising because
:04:13. > :04:17.they know there are very few jobs. Those who are intending to come are
:04:17. > :04:23.mostly well educated people who will take the sort of jobs that
:04:23. > :04:28.need to be filled. I think politicians have a responsibility.
:04:28. > :04:38.There is a lot of scaremongering and there is an undertone in this
:04:38. > :04:46.
:04:46. > :04:54.debate which I do not find very What will these people do? They
:04:54. > :04:59.will do jobs. What about the 2 million East Europeans who came in
:04:59. > :05:07.2000? It is not about people coming for benefits. It is not about
:05:07. > :05:16.people coming for housing. It is about people coming for jobs.
:05:16. > :05:23.Department for Work and Pensions says 17% of working you -- age UK
:05:23. > :05:28.nationals claimed benefit. This has not been based on fact. I do not
:05:28. > :05:35.agree. We have never had a proper, holistic, comprehensive review of
:05:35. > :05:41.the impact of eastern European workers from 2004 of to the UK
:05:41. > :05:46.economy. Whether people say we have, it is not true. The Government when
:05:46. > :05:53.academics have looked at this. The nearest we have come in 2008 is the
:05:53. > :05:57.house of Lords economic committee. I do not really wish to be
:05:57. > :06:02.reproached by the sort of liberal intelligentsia who say you cannot
:06:02. > :06:08.talk about immigration because there is an underlying issue of
:06:08. > :06:12.xenophobia. It is not a question of that. It is not racist. It is about
:06:12. > :06:16.pressure on public services at a very difficult time of financial
:06:16. > :06:22.strain. Labour has wanted to apologise for this. It has quite
:06:22. > :06:28.rightly said they allowed too many people him by not enforcing the
:06:28. > :06:34.rules. Do you agree? Are you the liberal intelligentsia? I would not
:06:34. > :06:37.like to be cast like that. You have to enforce the rules - no doubt
:06:37. > :06:43.about that the study have to look at the benefits which immigration
:06:43. > :06:48.brings to this country. -- at about that. You have to look. These
:06:48. > :06:52.people will take jobs and council homes. They are not take council
:06:52. > :06:58.homes away from people. The jobs they take will be created largely
:06:58. > :07:02.by them. They fill a need. whole business of politics is not
:07:02. > :07:07.just about reality, it is also about people's perceptions. People
:07:07. > :07:11.who are not that well educated or highly skilled in low-paid jobs,
:07:12. > :07:17.their perception is, often when they are competing for scarce
:07:17. > :07:21.public resources, people that are coming in are taking scarce
:07:21. > :07:26.resources. I think we have a duty - unless we are going to open the
:07:26. > :07:31.door to the BNP and other extremists - to debate this in a
:07:31. > :07:37.rational way. That is right. Some right-wing papers get hold of these
:07:37. > :07:41.issues and put it in a way that is not short of xenophobia. I accept
:07:41. > :07:47.you are not but, I think you have a responsibility, as publisher, to
:07:47. > :07:52.say you have done a lot of good as well. They have transformed Britain
:07:52. > :07:55.in a lot of ways. I was a local councillor in the London borough of
:07:55. > :08:00.Ealing. It has the largest population of Polish people in the
:08:00. > :08:04.UK. They are fantastic people and hard-working. We need to say to the
:08:04. > :08:09.European Union will decide who comes to our country. That is a
:08:09. > :08:14.different issue. At the moment they can come under EU rules. They have
:08:14. > :08:20.freedom of movement ran as you know. To pick up on your point about
:08:20. > :08:24.perception, is it just a perception rather than a reality? Is it only a
:08:24. > :08:28.reality in certain pockets of the country? You have hit the nail on
:08:28. > :08:34.the head. In certain parts of the country you have pinch points,
:08:34. > :08:43.because of the demographic and economic profile. We have had their
:08:43. > :08:47.to 4500 nasha insurance -- national insurance claimants. It does not
:08:47. > :08:51.happen often in many parts of the wealthy South of England. There are
:08:51. > :08:57.pockets where there are serious legitimate concerns. To you accept
:08:57. > :09:02.that London is an exception? some extent, it is an exception. I
:09:02. > :09:06.accept there are concerns about it. I think we have got the job to
:09:06. > :09:11.explain to people that immigrants to a lot of very big jobs and have
:09:11. > :09:15.been helpful to the economy. would agree with that. Nice to get
:09:15. > :09:21.a bit of agreement early on in the show. By the one making light bulbs
:09:21. > :09:24.in Liverpool or tea bags in Totnes, the question remains the same. What
:09:24. > :09:33.is best for British business? Is the continuing strong links with
:09:33. > :09:38.Europe of renegotiating a new relationship? Businesses are
:09:38. > :09:41.calling for the UK to take back powers from the Continent. David
:09:41. > :09:46.Cameron has already pledged to renegotiate some powers and offer
:09:46. > :09:50.voters a referendum on Europe if returned to para. In his speech
:09:50. > :09:55.earlier this year, he said that British people must have their say.
:09:55. > :10:01.It was not universally welcomed. Richard Branson warned that the UK
:10:01. > :10:06.must not become peripheral country on the edge of Europe. Now, pro-
:10:06. > :10:11.European business is becoming increasingly worried. Roland Rat
:10:11. > :10:16.has condemned the calls from today's new campaigners as very
:10:16. > :10:21.dangerous. He has said we should be pushing for multilateral reforms.
:10:21. > :10:25.The new group, business for Britain, has the backing of Stuart Rose and
:10:25. > :10:31.Lord Wolfson. They are determined that David Cameron holds firm on
:10:31. > :10:41.his pledges. They have said it is right to seek a new deal for the EU
:10:41. > :10:42.
:10:42. > :10:47.and the bomb of the UK in Europe. - - and the whole -- and the role of
:10:47. > :10:52.the UK in Europe. The European market accounts for half of the
:10:52. > :10:58.UK's overall trade and foreign investments. 3.5 million UK jobs
:10:58. > :11:05.are linked to goods and services to the EU. You have been set up to
:11:05. > :11:11.loosen those ties. Why? I am a businessman. I have not been
:11:11. > :11:17.involved in politics. Where we come from is, we feel to renegotiate and
:11:17. > :11:22.hat looser ties. The Prime Minister said in his speech in January that
:11:22. > :11:24.he was talking about more flexibility, more accountability,
:11:25. > :11:32.more democracy back to the parliament. All of that is
:11:32. > :11:38.something we are in favour of. We want to renegotiate. We want to
:11:38. > :11:42.insure it is the case that the message from businesses get over.
:11:42. > :11:46.There is a renegotiation that is needed. We do not believe there
:11:46. > :11:56.will cause uncertainty that summer that opponents to save. We believe
:11:56. > :11:56.
:11:56. > :12:03.it is very important -- uncertainty that some of our opponents do say.
:12:03. > :12:07.We believe it is very important. Why do you think what the group is
:12:07. > :12:11.promoting his dangerous? I am delighted the group wants to remain
:12:11. > :12:18.in the European Union and would vote Yes in the event of a
:12:18. > :12:24.referendum. Which you? We are not making that argument at all. We are
:12:24. > :12:29.saying it would depend entirely on how the renegotiation went. That is
:12:29. > :12:34.a hypothetical question. The key point is, how do we get a reformed
:12:34. > :12:40.Europe? To me get a reformed Europe through unilateral renegotiation
:12:40. > :12:46.and repatriation - trying to do that on our own? -- do we get? Are
:12:46. > :12:54.we going to get a reformed Europe by working with allies and talking
:12:54. > :12:57.about multilateral renegotiation? The reform agenda in terms of
:12:57. > :13:04.extending the single market - you have to remember that, as you
:13:04. > :13:09.rightly said, 400 million of our trade is done with Europe. It is
:13:09. > :13:13.worth almost 40 billion a year. One of his member said today that the
:13:13. > :13:17.costs of the single market away the benefits. Most businessmen do not
:13:17. > :13:20.believe that. They believe the benefits outweigh the costs but
:13:20. > :13:25.would like to see a more reformed Europe. That is what we should
:13:25. > :13:31.focus efforts on. We can come back to the issue of your natural
:13:31. > :13:35.against Malta at reform. Give me two examples of where you think the
:13:35. > :13:40.relationship has stultified business growth. I am in business.
:13:40. > :13:44.I manufacture prams. We were trying to export into Europe over the last
:13:44. > :13:51.10, 15 years. France has stopped us exporting prams to France because
:13:51. > :13:54.of safety laws in France. It is not theoretical. Rowland does not run a
:13:54. > :14:00.business similar to the manufacturing business. We suffered
:14:00. > :14:09.as a result of the French additional laws on safety so we
:14:09. > :14:15.could not export prams to France. Surely we need a better Europe that
:14:15. > :14:20.is well regulated. They are sort of breaching this single market notion
:14:20. > :14:27.in order to protect French interests. That is only an example.
:14:27. > :14:31.We had been in Europe for a long time. We keep saying we need better
:14:31. > :14:36.negotiation. We are suggesting we have better negotiation. How many
:14:36. > :14:40.years have we been in Europe that we still have these issues?
:14:40. > :14:44.single market has changed dramatically. It is not the way
:14:44. > :14:51.people envisaged initially. It has been transformed and is holding
:14:51. > :14:56.Business back in his view. I do not know about that. When Margaret
:14:56. > :15:01.Thatcher pushed through the single market, she gave up the veto for us
:15:01. > :15:06.on that particular issue. She was 100% right. We need to strengthen
:15:06. > :15:12.and deepen it. When Allen talks about the specific issue he has in
:15:12. > :15:15.manufacturing prams, I have total sympathy for him. We want more - we
:15:15. > :15:20.want the Commission to take more people to the European Court when
:15:20. > :15:24.these things are breached. That is happening. Got us to have proper
:15:25. > :15:33.trade and to boost growth, we need to have more reform extend the
:15:33. > :15:37.similar -- extend the market and a new agreement worth 60 billion a
:15:37. > :15:43.year. We want to see a slimmed down a European Union, all of which we
:15:43. > :15:50.can achieve fighting within with our allies. Are we in a position
:15:50. > :15:54.now to renegotiate in the way that he wants? Isn't now the best
:15:54. > :15:58.opportunity for Britain to say, we are not doing this any more - you
:15:58. > :16:03.are going to do it away? It is right that this is the time to put
:16:03. > :16:07.forward the reform agenda. I noticed on the website for the
:16:07. > :16:11.policies yet because you are going to consult with your members. We
:16:11. > :16:15.had been around for a while and we have ideas now in terms of the
:16:15. > :16:19.reform process. You have to start this process now, working with
:16:19. > :16:23.people like Germany and the Netherlands and there are a lot of
:16:24. > :16:28.allies of hours in European Union. The problem is the sort of rhetoric
:16:28. > :16:32.that you have been outlining and some of the Euro-sceptic rhetoric
:16:32. > :16:36.from the Government has meant that actually those allies are alienated.
:16:36. > :16:41.You are not going to be able to renegotiate from a position where
:16:41. > :16:45.Germany and France are saying, I am sorry, you cannot have it your own
:16:45. > :16:49.way. I have found over the years that it is better than you are
:16:49. > :16:56.negotiating to start off in a stronger position that you can have.
:16:56. > :17:00.To threaten to pull out if you do not get your own way? We are giving
:17:00. > :17:04.the Government the issues that business has. Roland represent
:17:04. > :17:08.large businesses. I understand that and have no problem with it. There
:17:08. > :17:13.are a lot of businesses out there, small businesses, medium-sized
:17:13. > :17:17.businesses and we suffer a great deal. It is no good talking about,
:17:17. > :17:22.it can be dealt with by the Commission, dealt with by legal
:17:22. > :17:28.matters. We do not have the money to do that. My problem in France,
:17:28. > :17:32.what was I meant to do? All we are asking is, when the Government -
:17:32. > :17:37.the coalition government or any other government - is renegotiating,
:17:37. > :17:41.they have the views of business people. That is all we like. I am
:17:41. > :17:49.worried about both the pupils do you approve talking their
:17:49. > :17:59.renegotiation as accepted that it will happen. -- about both of you.
:17:59. > :18:05.
:18:05. > :18:11.You are both talking about I want it extended to telecoms and
:18:11. > :18:14.I want to see a free-trade agreement with America. The
:18:14. > :18:20.working-time directive and the part-time working directive need
:18:20. > :18:24.reforming. Do you want people to opt out quite Denmark I mean
:18:24. > :18:30.reforming in the sense of you should be able to have part-time
:18:30. > :18:34.workers not on full-time benefits because otherwise you would
:18:34. > :18:38.decimate the part-time working for us. But you get these things
:18:38. > :18:44.working with our allies commit you do not get them as saying, this is
:18:44. > :18:48.what we want or are we will pull out. If we by that argument and
:18:48. > :18:55.worked with our partners, we would be in the euro by now? Absolutely
:18:55. > :19:01.not. That is a completely separate issue. I think if you look at what
:19:01. > :19:09.Rowland has supported in the past he has supported the Euro-campaign.
:19:09. > :19:16.As did large business people. We set up a referendum, business for
:19:16. > :19:21.Sterling. That is completely in the past. We did not campaign. Had
:19:21. > :19:25.there been a referendum, I would have voted in favour of it.
:19:25. > :19:30.would have been a good thing? would not have been a good thing.
:19:30. > :19:36.They have got huge problems and it is in our interest that it succeeds,
:19:36. > :19:40.but it is better we are out, but it is also in our interest to be at
:19:40. > :19:44.the heart of Europe fighting for the reforms. Is there anything
:19:44. > :19:48.specifically you would like to see renegotiated? The whole point of
:19:48. > :19:55.our group is week I going to be talking to business between now and
:19:55. > :20:00.the end of this year to hear what they have to save. If there was a
:20:00. > :20:07.referendum today, right now, in or out, what would you opt for? It is
:20:07. > :20:14.a hypothetical question. If that was the question... If nothing
:20:14. > :20:19.changed, my personal position would be very difficult to advise people
:20:19. > :20:25.to stay in the EU if nothing changed. But we are absolutely
:20:25. > :20:30.hoping for a change of policy, a renegotiation of. We are in a
:20:30. > :20:36.modern world and we are competing in China, Asia and South America.
:20:36. > :20:42.How do you best achieve that? There are two ways of achieving that. You
:20:42. > :20:48.can make lots of noise from the outside, or you go in there and try
:20:48. > :20:52.and dig in. The Tory party is torn by that. It has been very
:20:52. > :20:56.interesting. Sunday's marathons saw some great efforts for charities
:20:56. > :21:01.across the country and a contingent from Westminster made a
:21:01. > :21:09.contribution as well. Jim Murphy, the shadow Defence Secretary, was
:21:09. > :21:16.first across the line. Ed Balls joked he worried about flatlining
:21:16. > :21:21.during the race, but the Shadow Chancellor finished at a
:21:21. > :21:27.respectable five hours and 14 minutes. Too far, but not too fast.
:21:27. > :21:32.Nicky Morgan, the Conservative MP for Loughborough, last of the
:21:32. > :21:35.Conservative runners. Very impressive by all of them. Jim
:21:35. > :21:39.Murphy and Nicky Morgan spoke to us last week before the race and today
:21:39. > :21:46.they have managed to hobble to College Green to speak to Robin
:21:46. > :21:56.Brant. I am recovering and I just watched it. Nicky Morgan and Jim
:21:56. > :21:56.
:21:56. > :22:02.Murphy, how are you both the Labour Stimac source. Great. You were the
:22:02. > :22:07.first Conservative MP to do the race, what was the regime like?
:22:07. > :22:13.little bit off the booze towards the end, a lot of pasta last week.
:22:13. > :22:19.I was the first female Conservative MP to do the marathon. It has been
:22:19. > :22:24.hard to try and find time for the long runs. A lot of Popple talk
:22:24. > :22:28.about it at a lot of people dream about it, but why did you do it?
:22:28. > :22:33.had always looked enviously at the television when I saw other people
:22:33. > :22:39.doing it and I thought, when is going to be the next opportunity?
:22:39. > :22:44.It was also a great opportunity to raise money for mental illness.
:22:44. > :22:51.raise a couple of 1000 pounds. Does it make you a better
:22:51. > :22:54.politician? Or is it just a personal journey? A lot of people
:22:54. > :22:58.say the marathon is as much mental as physical and that is certainly
:22:59. > :23:04.true. There are a couple of miles in the middle when you have to dig
:23:04. > :23:09.deep and say, I am going to do this. Sometimes politics is like that.
:23:09. > :23:15.There is a bit of a long haul and you have to dig in for the long
:23:16. > :23:20.haul. You crossed the line ahead of Ed Balls, what was it like between
:23:20. > :23:25.you two in terms of the build-up and the training. We had a bit of a
:23:25. > :23:31.rivalry. I joked I would beat him and I would carry him on my back,
:23:31. > :23:38.but that was provider in my part. I had never run a marathon before, so
:23:38. > :23:45.I had no idea what to expect. The crowd put in a huge amount of
:23:45. > :23:49.effort. The last 17 miles onwards it is such a lonely experience, and
:23:49. > :23:54.that sounds strange when you have loads of people cheering you on,
:23:54. > :23:58.but it is basically a competition between your body and your brain
:23:58. > :24:04.and your body is saying stop and your brain is saying, you have got
:24:04. > :24:07.to keep going. You did not realise you had finish? There were
:24:07. > :24:14.thousands of people here at parliament yesterday and it is the
:24:14. > :24:18.only time nobody has Budde meet near Parliament. That was lovely. I
:24:18. > :24:26.ran around Buckingham Palace and there is no sign saying, finished,
:24:26. > :24:33.and I just kept going. -- nobody booed me. What did you think about
:24:33. > :24:43.when you were going around? Did you have an iPod on? Everyone is
:24:43. > :24:46.different, but I think about other experiences and people get
:24:46. > :24:54.strengths are from a different experiences in life and I thought,
:24:54. > :24:58.do not stop, do not let yourself down. I met somebody before who had
:24:58. > :25:03.done 18 marathons and she said, keep one foot in front of the other
:25:03. > :25:10.and it will soon be over. advice for colleagues facing uphill
:25:10. > :25:13.battles? David Cameron and Nick Clegg, it is tough for them. The
:25:13. > :25:19.marathon advise is if you see a hill, work hard into it and
:25:19. > :25:26.downhill relax through it. Will you do it next year? I well have to
:25:27. > :25:31.think about it. I will do it tomorrow. I am thinking about it.
:25:31. > :25:35.Are you going to do it? I will wait and see what you do
:25:35. > :25:43.first, otherwise I feel like a lie- down after that will stop you have
:25:43. > :25:47.run half were Athens a Stimac yes, but not hole marathons. If it is
:25:47. > :25:51.not the weather, we like rambling about the trains. Since then its
:25:51. > :25:57.90s services have been largely in the hands of private companies with
:25:57. > :26:02.varying degrees of success and failure. Both the East Coast and
:26:02. > :26:08.the West Coast main lines have given MPs a headache. Despite that
:26:08. > :26:13.they swear by the privatisation of rail, but is it working? A row over
:26:13. > :26:16.the right to run trains along the west coast, lost by Virgin, awarded
:26:16. > :26:22.to first group and then given back to Virgin for two years longer than
:26:22. > :26:27.originally intended. It left the taxpayer holding a �40 million a
:26:27. > :26:31.pill and embarrassed ministers. What has happened is acceptable and
:26:31. > :26:35.is deeply regrettable and I apologise. Making the trains run on
:26:35. > :26:40.time, always controversial and never easy. Privatisation was meant
:26:40. > :26:46.to take the strain off the taxpayer, but has it been a triumph or has it
:26:47. > :26:51.led to confusion and delay? When it occurred in the mid- 1990s, the
:26:51. > :26:55.rail industry was at the end of a long period of decline and it was
:26:55. > :26:58.expected it would be another managed decline of the rail system
:26:59. > :27:05.when other modes of transport took over, but that has not been the
:27:05. > :27:09.case. There has been a renaissance in railways and the biggest
:27:09. > :27:15.building investment programme since Victorian times. That said,
:27:15. > :27:20.privatisation has not worked out quite as planned. Railtrack was
:27:20. > :27:29.taken back under public ownership in 2001 and became Network Rail.
:27:29. > :27:32.The East Coast main line was in public hands by 2009. It made �600
:27:32. > :27:37.million for the taxpayer over the past three years, so what is not to
:27:37. > :27:41.like about public ownership? Public opinion is beginning to favour
:27:41. > :27:45.public ownership. The public ownership of the East Coast main
:27:45. > :27:50.line has been quite popular, following the failure of the
:27:50. > :27:54.private sector to run the franchise effectively. It has been in public
:27:54. > :27:59.ownership for a number of years. For the betterment of the whole
:27:59. > :28:04.economy we have got to have a more efficient, cheaper and possibly
:28:04. > :28:08.publicly subsidised rail service. Not much chance of that happening
:28:08. > :28:13.under this Government. It wants the East Coast main line back in
:28:14. > :28:17.private hands by 2015, or the election year. 10 of the 15
:28:17. > :28:22.franchises are due for review, but ministers are keen to avoid a
:28:22. > :28:27.repeat of the West Coast fiasco and a number of franchises have been
:28:27. > :28:31.extended. The public sector has been successful in operating the
:28:31. > :28:34.East Coast main line after two private sector operators failed,
:28:35. > :28:43.yet the Government seemed to have undue haste in wanting to get it
:28:43. > :28:48.back into the private sector. not think it is ideological. I have
:28:48. > :28:51.spoken at length with Patrick McLoughlin and the other ministers.
:28:51. > :28:56.I think you go back to the principles of franchising the
:28:56. > :29:01.competition and the inhibition of ideas and their work. The basic
:29:02. > :29:07.model of franchising is not thought. Labour's position is officially
:29:07. > :29:12.under review, but do not expect Ed Miliband to get his stationmaster's
:29:12. > :29:17.unit -- uniform on any time soon. Privatisation has delivered
:29:17. > :29:21.increased numbers of passengers, although they have increased
:29:21. > :29:27.because of the growth in the economy, but that has come as a
:29:27. > :29:32.cost. There will always have to see how they can keep growing at a cost
:29:32. > :29:39.that is affordable for the taxpayer and the passengers. This really
:29:39. > :29:45.could be the age of the train. Joining us now is Tony Lodge from
:29:45. > :29:55.the Centre for Policy Studies and Christian Wolmar a commentator on
:29:55. > :30:03.
:30:03. > :30:10.The big problem with privatisation is the increase in subsidy which
:30:10. > :30:15.has resulted from it. We saw last week there was �4 billion of
:30:15. > :30:20.government subsidy going into the railways. It was less under British
:30:20. > :30:26.Rail. Batters a lot of money. One could argue they have only done
:30:26. > :30:32.well as a result of government money. A really important statistic,
:30:32. > :30:35.the East Coast Main Line franchise is paying the highest premium of
:30:35. > :30:45.any long distance of their weight operator. That means the Government
:30:45. > :30:45.
:30:45. > :30:51.is not having to put much subsidy in. -- long-distance railway
:30:51. > :30:56.operator. It is the only one that is run by the state. I agree with
:30:56. > :31:01.that. That is likely be relevant. National Express had to hand the
:31:01. > :31:07.keys back when they got the figures wrong. The competition east coast
:31:07. > :31:13.has to face is making it better - lower fares, more passengers, more
:31:13. > :31:18.routes and greater revenue. That is an important test case. Do you
:31:18. > :31:22.disagree with the Government that, at some point, they should reopen
:31:22. > :31:29.the franchising of that line? Shouldn't they keep it with public
:31:29. > :31:34.ownership? To be honest with you, be directly operated railways, as
:31:34. > :31:38.far as I am concerned, they have had a very good run because they
:31:38. > :31:42.have had to face competition. The great thing about the East Coast
:31:42. > :31:49.Main Line is it was modernised in the 80s and has been electrified in
:31:49. > :31:52.the 80s. It will do well in private hands but it must face competition.
:31:52. > :31:57.The West Coast Main Line, a white card Richard Branson face
:31:57. > :32:01.competition as well? The problem with competition is that we always
:32:01. > :32:06.have a limited number of tracks and it is very difficult to organise
:32:06. > :32:10.competition. When the railways were first privatise, the Tory idea was
:32:10. > :32:15.that there would be a plethora of rail companies coming along and
:32:15. > :32:21.running services. They realised if they allowed that, together with
:32:21. > :32:26.the franchising of the railways, it would provide more subsidy. The
:32:26. > :32:30.private, open-access operators would grab the easy customers and
:32:30. > :32:36.the poor of franchisee would end up with services at 10pm in the
:32:36. > :32:42.evening which did not make money. That is why they are limited
:32:42. > :32:49.competition. I remember you writing in the Lee Marsh, 2011 issue of the
:32:49. > :32:59.Railway Magazine, they face competition at Doncaster at York,
:32:59. > :33:03.Northallerton and Wakefield. -- March, 2011. Why can't they have
:33:03. > :33:10.competition from other companies on the West Coast Main Line? It would
:33:10. > :33:16.end up costing taxpayers more money. Why? Private operators would
:33:16. > :33:21.cherry-pick the best services. is disprove and on the east coast.
:33:21. > :33:27.There are 20,000 rail services a day and 30 open-access trains a day.
:33:27. > :33:33.It is an irrelevant number. Can I move on to franchising? It has not
:33:33. > :33:41.been a curious success. That was a very dark hour for the deity. I
:33:41. > :33:51.would go back to the initial point. -- Department of Transport. I want
:33:51. > :33:57.to see none franchised open-access competition along size -- alongside
:33:58. > :34:03.franchises. How do you bring down train fares? Will they just go up?
:34:03. > :34:06.You introduce competition. Statistics show that on the East
:34:06. > :34:10.Coast main line where there was competition between East Coast and
:34:11. > :34:17.rail access operators, the average fare increase was 11% with
:34:17. > :34:21.competition, without it, it was 17%. That is still quite high. The point
:34:21. > :34:26.I am making is competition can hold fares down. I do not think
:34:26. > :34:31.competition will do that, it is government policy. There's have
:34:31. > :34:35.gone up by above the rate of inflation because that has been
:34:35. > :34:42.government policy. That should change. It is becoming politically
:34:42. > :34:48.unpalatable to put up fares by too much, given that fuel tax rises are
:34:48. > :34:52.always scrapped. Open-access, I'm afraid, is an irrelevance. What
:34:52. > :34:58.about public ownership where it has been said the East Coast company
:34:58. > :35:04.has run out of steam? In order to get more investment, you would have
:35:04. > :35:08.to have a private company running it? Train operators actually do not
:35:08. > :35:12.invest. It is Network Rail that invests in improvement in the
:35:12. > :35:16.railways. Customers would agree with that because they say there is
:35:16. > :35:21.overcrowding and train extensions take too long to happen. There is
:35:21. > :35:26.evidence of this. If you want to see more rolling stock and cheaper
:35:26. > :35:32.rolling-stock - cheaper fares for the passenger - open up. Let's have
:35:32. > :35:38.new services to serve new locations alongside the franchise. What about
:35:38. > :35:43.taking away the subsidy in keeping it in public ownership? There is a
:35:43. > :35:47.lot written about the old British Rail. It is slightly before my time
:35:47. > :35:57.the Tour de Geste record it. I will say, British Rail is not coming
:35:57. > :36:00.
:36:00. > :36:05.back. -- but I do record it. I will just make one point. Safety on the
:36:05. > :36:11.railways has never been higher. British Rail did not have the great
:36:11. > :36:15.safety record. Airplane safety has improved as well. That is largely
:36:15. > :36:25.technology. It is difficult to recreate British Rail. Network Rail
:36:25. > :36:25.
:36:25. > :36:29.is state owned. My contention would be, why not keep Directly Operated
:36:29. > :36:39.Railways on the east coast and then we will know how much it costs to
:36:39. > :36:39.
:36:39. > :36:42.run away? -- run a railway. They say a week in politics is a long
:36:42. > :36:45.time, so let's have a look at the stories which could be making the
:36:45. > :36:48.headlines this week The authorised biography of Margaret Thatcher will
:36:48. > :36:51.be published on Tuesday. The book is called Not for Turning and was
:36:51. > :36:53.only to be released after the death of Britain's first female Prime
:36:53. > :36:56.Minister. Also on Tuesday, Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt goes before
:36:56. > :36:58.the health committee to discuss the report which looked into the
:36:58. > :37:01.failings at Mid-Staffordshire Hospital Trust. On Wednesday, Prime
:37:01. > :37:04.Minister David Cameron will answer questions from the despatch box for
:37:04. > :37:06.the first time since the Easter recess On Thursday, the office of
:37:06. > :37:10.National Statistics will publish their preliminary figures for the
:37:10. > :37:20.first quarter of 2013, if they show negative growth it will mean the UK
:37:20. > :37:22.is in a so-called triple-dip recession. Joining me now is The
:37:22. > :37:32.Metro's political editor, John Higginson, and New Statesman's
:37:32. > :37:32.
:37:32. > :37:36.Helen Lewis. Welcome to both of you. Helen, do you agree with Labour MP
:37:36. > :37:39.Jim Murphy's line yesterday that blanket coverage of the death of
:37:39. > :37:44.Baroness Thatcher was the reason for the decline in Labour's poll
:37:44. > :37:49.ratings? It was not seem to be appropriate bike Ed Miliband to
:37:49. > :37:54.contest the legacy. You had a week when you were hearing a lot about
:37:54. > :37:59.Conservative achievements and conservative values. I think it
:37:59. > :38:03.definitely paid into it. What is not being said is there is a lot of
:38:03. > :38:09.rumbling inside Labour at the moment. A lot of discontent for its
:38:10. > :38:15.butt off by an article by Tony Blair in the New Statesman. --
:38:15. > :38:21.sparked off. Does Ed Miliband need to outline a vision two years on
:38:22. > :38:27.from the election? What about the growth figures? To agree that
:38:27. > :38:31.figures this week can dictate what happened in the 2015 election?
:38:31. > :38:36.will matter in 2015 is what is happening then. Two years from now,
:38:36. > :38:40.when people are coming into an election, they will look back and
:38:40. > :38:47.think, were being a double dip recession or a triple dip
:38:47. > :38:53.recession? -- where we in? We are a long way away from an election. If
:38:53. > :39:03.we come in just below on Thursday were just about buy 0.1%, I do not
:39:03. > :39:04.
:39:04. > :39:09.think it will have a major effect. -- or just about I 0.1%. Was he
:39:09. > :39:18.right that in economic terms with him and raised a contraction or a
:39:18. > :39:23.tiny increase in gross, it is going to be completely irrelevant? -- if
:39:23. > :39:28.there is a contraction. A triple dip recession is catastrophic for
:39:28. > :39:34.George Osborne. He will face briefings from his own side. There
:39:34. > :39:38.will be rumblings in the Tory Party. The best he can hope for is a weak
:39:38. > :39:44.and anaemic growth. We'd bump along the bottom alternating between
:39:44. > :39:51.positive and negative growth. That is bad for people's incomes. In
:39:51. > :39:57.that sense, it probably will affect the 2015 election. What about the
:39:57. > :40:02.reputation of George Osborne? did state his reputation on the
:40:02. > :40:09.economy, on getting the deficit cut by 2015. He has admitted that will
:40:09. > :40:16.not happen. Yet again, he might have to face - David Cameron might
:40:16. > :40:21.have to phase in Prime Minister's Questions a hand signal signifying
:40:21. > :40:25.bumping along the bottom, in and out of recession. For a party that
:40:25. > :40:31.staked everything on, the get everything else, we need to sort
:40:31. > :40:41.out the economy, its economy is not sorted out, that will be the issue
:40:41. > :40:43.
:40:43. > :40:46.in 2015. -- if the economy. I think there are two problems for Labour.
:40:46. > :40:51.The first is whether Ed Miliband has real name recognition and
:40:52. > :40:57.people know him as a politician and a person. They have not been able
:40:57. > :41:02.to land killer blows. With the downgradings from the ratings
:41:02. > :41:07.agencies, George Osborne said it would be humiliating. They have not
:41:07. > :41:14.been able to turn that into a punch that has been landed on him.
:41:14. > :41:17.some extent they have been factored in? People are not very optimistic
:41:17. > :41:21.about growth. In the local elections you mentioned, how
:41:21. > :41:26.difficult would be for coalition partners on the doorstep with the
:41:26. > :41:30.economy in the state it is? As you have just said, a lot of people
:41:30. > :41:35.will be thinking, OK, we're not doing too well but would Labour
:41:35. > :41:39.have done any better? As the polls have shown, they do not think they
:41:39. > :41:43.would. Even if someone says, I wish we had gross, I do not think
:41:43. > :41:52.they're looking to Labour and sane, they're the ones that would have
:41:52. > :41:56.provided to us. -- and saying. With the Thatcher pounds, we might see a
:41:56. > :42:03.bit of that in local elections. David Cameron should not be taking
:42:03. > :42:11.a whole load of... He should not think it is great. It is a bounce
:42:11. > :42:18.based on a party 30 years ago. has most to lose? Everyone. -- who
:42:18. > :42:23.has most? What we will see it in Cornwall and Cambridgeshire, if you
:42:23. > :42:29.want to make a protest vote, who do you hold most responsible for the
:42:29. > :42:33.mess? That is the idea. That is what I will really be watching.
:42:33. > :42:36.have been joined by three MPs. Labour's Andy Sawford, Conservative
:42:36. > :42:41.Shailesh Vara and Liberal Democrat Mark Hunter for the rest of the
:42:41. > :42:47.show. As we've been hearing, it's a big week for the economy - and for
:42:47. > :42:52.politics - with the latest GDP figure announced on Thursday. A
:42:52. > :42:55.triple dip recession for the first time in recent economic history. It
:42:55. > :43:02.would be a disaster for the reputation of George Osborne,
:43:02. > :43:07.wouldn't it? I'm not going to speculate. Would it be a disaster?
:43:07. > :43:14.The fact is we have reduced the deficit by a third. If we look
:43:14. > :43:18.outside into the big, wide world, many private sector jobs have been
:43:18. > :43:28.created. There is record employment. People will say, what is happening
:43:28. > :43:32.in the real world rather than George Osborne and his reputation.
:43:32. > :43:36.He has staked so much on a deficit reduction plan which the OBR is
:43:36. > :43:41.saying is stalling and a return to growth. If there is a triple dip,
:43:42. > :43:46.even if it is only a very small contraction, what effect would it
:43:46. > :43:50.have on his personal reputation? His reputation will be judged on
:43:50. > :43:59.what he has achieved. Over 1 million people are in private
:43:59. > :44:07.sector jobs. many people have had tax cuts and some had been taken
:44:07. > :44:15.out of tax altogether. When �24 million you have 24 million people
:44:15. > :44:21.having a tax cut, that is a benefit. -- when you have 24 million people.
:44:21. > :44:24.A report out today sets in the year to February, it was zero. Times are
:44:24. > :44:31.difficult. We're in the worst economic position we have been in
:44:31. > :44:37.since the 30s. None of that is down to government policies? It is down
:44:37. > :44:40.to a legacy of debt which has built over a decade by the previous
:44:41. > :44:45.administration. Let's say there is a tiny bit of growth but the
:44:45. > :44:50.British economy continues to flat line. Still no growth. We still
:44:50. > :44:55.have faith in the Government's economic policy? You have to
:44:55. > :45:01.recognise this country was on the brink of bankruptcy mummy came into
:45:01. > :45:09.control. We're taking it out of that desperate condition. Labour
:45:09. > :45:14.are saying give us control of the economy to finish the job we tried
:45:14. > :45:19.to do before in bankrupting the economy. Are the Liberal Democrats
:45:19. > :45:23.still signed up to this? Signed up to the deficit reduction strategy.
:45:23. > :45:27.That is one of the key reasons why the coalition was formed in the
:45:27. > :45:33.first place. We came into the coalition government at a time when
:45:33. > :45:38.UK plc was spending �4 for every �3 we actually had and the deficit
:45:38. > :45:42.problem was massive at that stage in time. We have made progress with
:45:42. > :45:45.that and cut the deficit by a third. 1 million people are in
:45:45. > :45:49.apprenticeships over the last couple of years. Plenty of good
:45:49. > :45:54.things happening in the economy and we must be careful not to talk it
:45:54. > :45:57.down. It is a difficult economic climate. Glamorgan's and about the
:45:57. > :46:01.impact on people - the kind of voters I'm privileged to represent
:46:01. > :46:07.in Parliament and the triple dip recession and the three-star rating
:46:07. > :46:10.and so on. That does not mean much out to folk in communities. What
:46:10. > :46:14.does mean a lot to them is whether or not they can afford to pay the
:46:14. > :46:18.mortgage and we have record low interest rates. Whether or not they
:46:18. > :46:23.are in a job, we have created over a million private sector jobs since
:46:23. > :46:27.the Government was formed. Plenty positive things. It is still a
:46:27. > :46:31.difficult time. No-one in the coalition has the answers or that
:46:31. > :46:41.there is a silver bullet solution. We have to tackle the benefit --
:46:41. > :46:54.
:46:55. > :47:02.Most of us accept the Government will be judged by the end of their
:47:02. > :47:07.term. I am optimistic we will continue to make progress on the
:47:07. > :47:10.deficit reduction strategy, but it is important to have a plan. You
:47:10. > :47:13.only have to look at what is happening in other European
:47:13. > :47:18.countries to see the kind of difficulties they get into if they
:47:18. > :47:23.do not have a plausible plan to tackle the deficit. That is why
:47:23. > :47:26.there is a lot of focus on the Labour Party, although they are
:47:26. > :47:34.posing the cuts we are making, they are not saying what they are going
:47:34. > :47:40.to do. How much more is going to be cut? We could speculate endlessly.
:47:40. > :47:44.How much more has got to be cut? Nobody comes into politics, least
:47:44. > :47:51.of all any political party, to want to make cuts in public expenditure,
:47:51. > :47:55.but it accounts for 25% of all central Government funding and it
:47:55. > :48:00.is not credible to pretend that somehow public sector can be exempt
:48:00. > :48:06.from the kind of savings and cats that have had to be made across the
:48:06. > :48:11.board. The exception is the NHS where we have committed more money
:48:11. > :48:17.than the Labour Party said they would. Did you think that the cuts
:48:17. > :48:21.up until now, only 20% so far, would have sparked growth? I think
:48:21. > :48:25.nobody appreciated just how long and how difficult the current
:48:25. > :48:32.recession is going to be. Most external commentators would agree
:48:32. > :48:37.with that. But still no change in the policy? It is important to
:48:37. > :48:41.retain an open mind, but what we are not seeing in Parliament and in
:48:41. > :48:45.the domestic political debate is a credible, alternative proposition.
:48:45. > :48:53.When I speak to people in my constituency most people understand
:48:53. > :48:59.that. They knew whoever won the general election, we would be in
:48:59. > :49:05.far a difficult time. I have to ask what Labour's policy is going to be
:49:05. > :49:09.because there is confusion in terms of what Labour's plans are. Labour
:49:09. > :49:15.said the coalition has cut too far and too fast, but we did not quite
:49:15. > :49:20.get to the bottom of how much work is to come. Only 20% has been cut.
:49:21. > :49:25.If you think the British economy has not grown is because they have
:49:25. > :49:30.cut too far and too fast, the logic is Labour will spend and borrow
:49:30. > :49:35.more going into the 2015 Election. You have asked two questions. The
:49:35. > :49:40.first is about the current situation. It is important to say
:49:40. > :49:43.we do care about the current position of the economy. This is
:49:43. > :49:48.not about the electoral calculations of the Tories and the
:49:48. > :49:52.Liberal Democrats, I care about people in my constituency right now.
:49:52. > :49:57.Unemployment is higher than when this Government came to office,
:49:57. > :50:02.that debt is going up, we are borrowing more. So you think the
:50:02. > :50:09.solution would be in order to improve the lives of people you
:50:09. > :50:13.would want to borrow more? I was coming to that. We have set out an
:50:13. > :50:18.alternative plan, which was to half the deficit over the course of this
:50:18. > :50:23.Parliament, so we would be spending �13 billion more on infrastructure
:50:23. > :50:28.this year which would be important to get our economies growing. The
:50:28. > :50:34.IMF, the CBI and even Lord Heseltine are encouraging George
:50:34. > :50:39.Osborne to look at that. But they will not listen. Into the next
:50:39. > :50:44.election is Labour going to pledge to borrow even more to get growth?
:50:44. > :50:49.That will be a decision for Ed Balls and Ed Miliband. You have
:50:49. > :50:52.just said... The responsible thing to do is to look at the
:50:52. > :50:59.Government's spending plans which have not been announced. We know
:50:59. > :51:05.the total amount of spending in 2015-2016, but we do not know where
:51:05. > :51:08.the cuts are going to come. Labour can say now we used it to the
:51:09. > :51:13.Government's current spending plans? We cannot trust from one
:51:13. > :51:18.year to the next that the figures that George Osborne gives us. The
:51:19. > :51:27.figures get worse year on year. We do not know this situation the
:51:27. > :51:35.economy is going to be in 2015. We would spend the money and we would
:51:35. > :51:40.have a tax on bankers' bonuses. These are not unimportant things.
:51:40. > :51:46.What we want to know and what the viewers want to know it is you have
:51:46. > :51:52.criticised the coalition policies... They would not want us to set out
:51:52. > :51:57.plans when we do not know the real situation. But after the spending
:51:57. > :52:03.review you well. Of course, and week-by-week we will have a clearer
:52:03. > :52:06.picture of what we might note in 2015 and we will continue to set
:52:06. > :52:11.out our policies, but we cannot tell you right now what the
:52:11. > :52:19.spending review is going to be and how dire the economy might be by
:52:19. > :52:25.2015. Employment has gone up. There are 850,000 people more in
:52:25. > :52:29.employment now than after the general election. As far as the
:52:29. > :52:35.budget deficit is concerned, Fitch who do their ratings they
:52:35. > :52:39.themselves have said it is because of this Government's commitment to
:52:39. > :52:46.reducing the underlying budget deficit that the UK debt has a
:52:46. > :52:51.stable outlook. They downgraded us, but that is what they said. The UK
:52:51. > :52:55.debt has a stable outlook. As far as the other issue is concerned,
:52:55. > :53:05.why is it that Ed Miliband is able to say if there is a Labour
:53:05. > :53:08.Government he would reduce taxes to 10%? His crystal ball allows him to
:53:09. > :53:16.make tax commitments, but on the other hand when we talk about
:53:16. > :53:20.spending commitments they are being terribly shy. The reality is the
:53:20. > :53:24.Labour Government borrowed, spent and created debt and what they are
:53:24. > :53:30.offering the country again is to offer more and to spend more and to
:53:30. > :53:37.create more debt as well. Why is it that the population does not trust
:53:37. > :53:43.Labour? Why have the polls narrowed? Why is Ed Miliband and Ed
:53:43. > :53:46.Balls' policy under pressure? incredibly important to labour to
:53:46. > :53:51.build trust and we have got a long way to go and I am under no
:53:51. > :53:57.illusion about that. We had the worst election result we have for
:53:57. > :54:02.80 years in 2010 and we have got a big job to do. But when we go out
:54:02. > :54:06.and talk to people and we have a real result, we can see that people
:54:06. > :54:10.do not trust this Government and they can see that their policies
:54:10. > :54:16.are taking us in the wrong direction. It is not just the
:54:16. > :54:20.economy, Bano in the health service we have 5000 fewer nurses and
:54:20. > :54:27.15,000 fewer police officers, so this Government is not doing what
:54:27. > :54:33.they said they would do. Is Labour a soft touch on welfare? Absolutely
:54:33. > :54:40.not. Let's contrast really clearly... You opposed the benefit
:54:40. > :54:44.cap. You are spending 13 billion more on out-of-work benefits and 13
:54:44. > :54:47.billion less on infrastructure. the doorstep in the local elections
:54:47. > :54:52.are you going to be happy talking to people whose real pay has not
:54:52. > :54:57.risen, no prospect of a rising, the rest of people still losing their
:54:57. > :55:03.jobs, and they will say, please change your policy and they will
:55:03. > :55:07.say -- and you will say? There is a realisation amongst the population
:55:07. > :55:13.that we are in a difficult financial times. He would have been
:55:13. > :55:20.saying that since 2010. It was true then and it is true now and we have
:55:20. > :55:25.got a plan to tackle it. Why has the IMF lost faith? I know there
:55:25. > :55:30.have been some concerns expressed by the IMF, and it is important we
:55:30. > :55:34.listen to them. But at the end of the day, you cannot spend more than
:55:34. > :55:37.you earn. That is what was happening with the previous
:55:37. > :55:42.administration and that is what this Government is going to put a
:55:42. > :55:48.stop to it. We often hear from MPs that they work long, anti-social
:55:48. > :55:52.hours, but Margaret Hodge thinks otherwise. She says MPs risk being
:55:52. > :56:02.called lazy because the number of hours they work in Westminster are
:56:02. > :56:13.
:56:13. > :56:17.What do our MPs make of that? Are you lazy? I do not think my family
:56:17. > :56:24.would agree with that caricature, they do not see enough of me as it
:56:24. > :56:28.is. The mistake is to assume that recess equals holiday. Whilst it is
:56:28. > :56:33.true to say it is a generous allocation of time, for most MPs
:56:34. > :56:39.like me who live in a constituency, that is an important part of our
:56:39. > :56:41.job. It is equally important that the constituency MPs are out and
:56:41. > :56:46.about in the local community listening to what people have got
:56:46. > :56:51.to say and that is why I think the argument is very weak. There is
:56:51. > :56:58.nothing to stop her if she wants her Select Committee to join the
:56:58. > :57:02.recess. We will suggest that to her. What do you do in the recess? Do
:57:02. > :57:10.you have some sort of schedule during the recess to do the
:57:10. > :57:15.constituency work? Absolutely. are very new. It is an incredibly
:57:15. > :57:21.busy job and the other MPs would seem very busy from other parties
:57:21. > :57:24.as well. The thing I have been most surprised by his how little
:57:24. > :57:29.activity there is from the Government in parliament. That is
:57:29. > :57:36.why there are not many sitting days and they do not want to be
:57:36. > :57:39.scrutinised either. Margaret Hodge has got an issue. How many prime
:57:40. > :57:48.minister's questions are there between now and the start of June?
:57:48. > :57:51.I do not know. Only two. But since we came into Government we have
:57:51. > :57:57.restored the September sittings and the House of Commons sits longer
:57:57. > :58:02.than most legislature's throughout the world. An MP's job is not only
:58:02. > :58:08.to be a legislator and come to the House of Commons. You have to hold
:58:08. > :58:13.the executive to account. But with people like you on 24 hour news you
:58:13. > :58:19.ensure we do keep the executive to account and we can be on television
:58:19. > :58:23.in an instant. But it is important to recognise that in my
:58:23. > :58:28.constituency I have a hospital that has a deficit problem. There is
:58:28. > :58:33.also a development of 5500 homes which will have massive
:58:33. > :58:38.infrastructure issues. Those issues cannot be forgotten and if I am
:58:38. > :58:42.legislating constantly in the House of Commons, then I have to make
:58:42. > :58:50.sure that I somehow find the time to look after my constituents. The