24/04/2013

:00:47. > :00:51.Politics. How long does it take to expel a terrorist suspect? The Home

:00:51. > :00:55.Secretary will tell the Commons what she will do next as the latest

:00:55. > :00:58.attempt to remove Abu Qatada is thwarted.

:00:58. > :01:03.It is eight months until restrictions are lifted on

:01:03. > :01:06.Bulgarians and Romanians wanting to work in the UK, but how many will

:01:06. > :01:10.come? We will ask the Immigration Minister.

:01:10. > :01:14.After weeks away from the despatch box, David Cameron and Ed Miliband

:01:14. > :01:17.square up to each other again at last. We will bring you Prime

:01:17. > :01:22.Minister's Questions, my and uncut as always.

:01:22. > :01:29.If the government doing enough to protect Britain's green and pleasant

:01:29. > :01:33.land? -- is the government doing enough? We badly need to build more

:01:33. > :01:39.houses, we only have one countryside, one England, and we

:01:39. > :01:43.must protect it. All that coming up in the next 90

:01:43. > :01:48.minutes of the very finest public service broadcasting. Included in

:01:48. > :01:57.the price of the licence fee! Joining us for the duration, MPs

:01:57. > :02:02.representing beautiful parts of Immigration Minister, Mark Harper,

:02:02. > :02:08.and from Pontypridd, the Shadow Welsh Secretary, Owen Smith. It is

:02:08. > :02:11.almost 20 years since hate preacher Abu Qatada, we have to insert the

:02:11. > :02:18.word hate preacher every time you mention his name, arrived in the UK

:02:18. > :02:22.from Jordan on a false passport. For the last eight years, the UK

:02:22. > :02:26.Government has been trying to deport him back to Jordan, where he has

:02:26. > :02:30.been convicted of terrorism offences. Both Labour and the

:02:30. > :02:34.Conservatives have had a lack of success. One year ago, the current

:02:34. > :02:39.Home Secretary said he was on his way home. We have obtained from the

:02:39. > :02:43.Jordanian government the material we need to comply with the ruling of

:02:43. > :02:47.the European Court. I believe the assurances we have gathered will

:02:47. > :02:51.ensure that we can soon put Qatada on a plane and get him out of our

:02:51. > :02:55.country for good. He is still here, and the Court of

:02:55. > :03:00.Appeal turned down a request to have an earlier decision by the Special

:03:00. > :03:04.Immigration Appeals Court to block his deportation referred to the

:03:04. > :03:10.Supreme Court. It is keeping the lawyers in a job! You still with me?

:03:10. > :03:15.The bottom line is he is not going anywhere fast, at least for now.

:03:15. > :03:21.That is the harsh truth? It is fair to say it has taken longer than the

:03:21. > :03:24.Home Secretary hopes last year. She is determined to keep going. We have

:03:24. > :03:29.the legal route, and she said yesterday we will ask the Supreme

:03:29. > :03:31.Court if we can appeal directly on a point of law, but we have been

:03:31. > :03:36.continuing discussion with the Jordanian government and the Home

:03:36. > :03:40.Secretary in a statement shortly will be setting out further

:03:40. > :03:44.developments in that area. Even if the Jordanian government says, if we

:03:44. > :03:48.can get it written in stone, we will not use evidence against this man

:03:48. > :03:54.obtained by torture, won't it have to go through the court process

:03:54. > :03:59.again? It will be necessary to do that. He will be here for another

:03:59. > :04:09.millennium. The previous government had difficulties with this, the Home

:04:09. > :04:09.

:04:09. > :04:14.Secretary is focused. If you listen, she will be setting out things

:04:14. > :04:18.further developed with the Jordanians. I think she would admit

:04:18. > :04:21.it has taken longer than hoped. We thought we had dealt with all the

:04:21. > :04:26.issues that there were in the legal area about the assurances we got

:04:26. > :04:30.from Jordan last year, the Special Immigration Appeals Commission came

:04:30. > :04:34.up with an extra thing which was not anticipated. I understand the

:04:34. > :04:40.reasons why we are where we are. It is reported in some papers this

:04:40. > :04:45.morning that the government is considering a temporary resigning

:04:45. > :04:51.from the European Court of Human Rights to get this guy out, and then

:04:51. > :04:57.rejoin, is that an option? I saw those stories as well, that they are

:04:57. > :05:01.stories. I am asking whether there is truth in them. The Home Secretary

:05:01. > :05:10.will set out the process we will follow today. I can't set out any of

:05:10. > :05:14.that before she says it. It is a big step. Is that seriously an option?

:05:14. > :05:20.Ask me when she has made her statement and I can comment, it will

:05:20. > :05:26.become clear. Nick Clegg, your deputy Prime Minister, he said, to

:05:26. > :05:30.reason they made a speech arguing that the idea of leaving the

:05:30. > :05:39.convention should be on the table, I will not be on the -- it will not be

:05:39. > :05:43.on the Cabinet table while I am sitting at it. I will not avoid the

:05:43. > :05:47.question, but I want to answer it properly when she has made her

:05:47. > :05:52.statement. Given that Labour also failed to get rid of this chap, what

:05:52. > :05:55.would you do now that was different from the government? , the first

:05:56. > :05:59.thing they should have done, and it has been difficult, but the

:05:59. > :06:06.government compound the difficulty by choosing last year to repeal the

:06:06. > :06:10.European ruling over Qatada. The difficulty we had was the European

:06:10. > :06:13.process being pursued. They got to the point that the European Court

:06:13. > :06:18.ruled we could not deport him. Theresa May had a choice about

:06:18. > :06:23.whether she would repeal that or choose to go back to the British

:06:23. > :06:27.courts. Why didn't you appeal the European decision? The decision was

:06:27. > :06:32.taken to proceed because we thought we had dealt with the issues and the

:06:32. > :06:35.concerns about Jordan. These issues are with British courts.

:06:35. > :06:44.European Court made the final ruling, this is the ultimate

:06:44. > :06:48.arbiter. Why didn't you, as you can do, there are procedures, appeal

:06:48. > :06:51.against the European court ruling? The issue thought to be at the heart

:06:51. > :06:56.of this was about the treatment he would get if you went back to

:06:56. > :07:02.Jordan. Those are the issues we felt we had properly dealt with. Would

:07:02. > :07:05.not have been better to go to the European Court? I'm not shaders

:07:05. > :07:10.helpful to do these things in hindsight. Both your governments

:07:10. > :07:14.have failed to get rid of this guy that everybody agrees has been a

:07:14. > :07:18.real danger to the welfare of this country. The courts agreed in their

:07:18. > :07:25.ruling that he was a dangerous man and made the point they did not

:07:25. > :07:30.think they needed to consider that. In 2009 when Labour was in power,

:07:30. > :07:35.the highest court in the land ruled unanimously that he could be sent to

:07:35. > :07:39.Jordan, why didn't you just send him? There were, as there still are,

:07:39. > :07:46.concerns about the way he would be treated. That was the principal

:07:46. > :07:51.issue. We were engaged in dialogue with Jordan, we did not have the

:07:51. > :07:56.necessary... You had a unanimous ruling by the high as judges in the

:07:56. > :08:02.land in 2009 that it was okayed to send him back. They were fine with

:08:02. > :08:06.it, why didn't you? We knew that the European process had to be pursued.

:08:06. > :08:12.We got to the point into the current government where they had the option

:08:12. > :08:15.not to go back to Europe. You missed the biggest opportunity. They

:08:16. > :08:20.failed, that is quite clear, but you missed the one opportunity we had to

:08:20. > :08:24.send him back. It is what the French and Italians have done before the

:08:24. > :08:31.European process even starts, their top courts rule, they got rid of

:08:31. > :08:40.them. The appeal in the European Court would have bought that. The

:08:40. > :08:45.current government is effectively hoisted by its own petard. The fact

:08:45. > :08:51.that they did not appeal has allowed the Court of Appeal to say

:08:51. > :08:58.yesterday. Worse, the reality is that Qatada could be out on the

:08:58. > :09:03.street. Turning this into a party dingdong is not very sensible. This

:09:03. > :09:11.has been a challenge for both parties. It has challenged both the

:09:11. > :09:14.bus. I think the House, MPs and the country will want the Home Secretary

:09:14. > :09:19.to be successful, she will pursue the twin track approach. Why don't

:09:19. > :09:23.you work together? You are nitpicking his policies after

:09:23. > :09:27.completely failing, he has also failed. Rather than scoring party

:09:27. > :09:31.political points which should both be filed under F for failure, why

:09:31. > :09:37.don't you work together to see something that might work? Let's see

:09:37. > :09:42.what to Reza may have stooped say. 12 months ago she said she would

:09:42. > :09:51.have him on a plane. Another party political point. She is the Home

:09:51. > :10:01.Secretary. Many Home Secretary's did not get rid of him. You should admit

:10:01. > :10:10.

:10:10. > :10:11.your failure and you should show more humility, given your failure.

:10:12. > :10:14.Successive governments have failed to deport him, successive

:10:14. > :10:16.governments know he is dangerous. We were pursuing a process through

:10:16. > :10:18.Europe which the government should have pushed to an endpoint, they did

:10:18. > :10:21.not because they thought their strategy would deliver results.

:10:21. > :10:26.How many people from Bulgaria and remain the will come to work in

:10:26. > :10:29.Britain when employment restrictions are lifted at the end of the? No

:10:29. > :10:34.one, including the Immigration Minister, who joins us, knows, or

:10:34. > :10:39.they will not tell as if they do. The ambassadors for these countries

:10:39. > :10:44.yesterday told as they thought that no more than 35,000 countrymen would

:10:44. > :10:47.arrive in 2014. That seems quite a lot. Other predictions are higher

:10:47. > :10:51.and the government is worried enough to consider limiting access to new

:10:51. > :10:55.migrants to benefits, health and housing.

:10:55. > :10:59.Romanians and Bulgarians have been able to travel to the UK without a

:11:00. > :11:04.visa since 2007, when they joined the EU, but there were restrictions

:11:04. > :11:07.on what type of jobs they could take. Come January one next year,

:11:08. > :11:13.those temporary restrictions will end, and Bulgarians and remain Ian's

:11:13. > :11:16.will have the same rights to work in the UK and claim benefits or NHS

:11:16. > :11:21.care as any other EU citizens. The government says it has not produced

:11:21. > :11:23.an official estimate of how many to expect, aware that Labour's

:11:24. > :11:30.prediction that only minimal numbers would arrive from countries

:11:30. > :11:34.including Poland in 2004 proved very wide of the mark. This week, a BBC

:11:34. > :11:41.survey found that one present of working age Romanians and 4.2 % of

:11:41. > :11:47.Bulgarians are working -- looking for work in the UK in 2013 or 2014.

:11:47. > :11:51.Migration watch UK says those percentages work out at 150,000

:11:51. > :11:55.Romanians and 200,000 Bulgarians actively coming -- considering

:11:55. > :11:59.coming here to work. David Cameron says he wants to make sure that

:11:59. > :12:04.people only come to the UK for the right reasons, and ministers are

:12:04. > :12:11.looking at the test to prevent anything to risen, with possible

:12:11. > :12:16.limits access to welfare, health fair -- healthcare and housing. You

:12:16. > :12:20.could leader Nigel Farage has just come back from a fact-finding

:12:20. > :12:30.mission to Bulgaria -- UKIP leader. How many Bulgarians do you think

:12:30. > :12:31.

:12:31. > :12:34.will come to the UK? I think a lot. What is a lotta? -- what is a lotta?

:12:34. > :12:42.Several hundred thousand people over the next few years, although I think

:12:42. > :12:45.that could prove a conservative estimate. If just four in 100 of the

:12:45. > :12:53.people in Bulgaria and remain you came to Britain, that would be 1

:12:53. > :12:56.million people. But it is a guess, you don't know? Why at a time when

:12:56. > :13:03.we have 1 million of our own young people out of work should we take

:13:03. > :13:06.the risk? It makes no sense, it is not in the national interest.

:13:06. > :13:11.I have watched the film of your trip to Bavaria, what struck me was most

:13:11. > :13:19.of the people you spoke to said they had no intention of coming to the

:13:19. > :13:25.UK, including a group of young students? Were you surprised?

:13:25. > :13:30.just for in 100 come from Bulgaria and remain you, that would be 1

:13:30. > :13:34.million people. -- if just four in 100. Some people said they would

:13:34. > :13:42.come, and a well respected priest thought significant numbers would

:13:42. > :13:44.come. The complete unknown quantity is what will happen. If you look at

:13:44. > :13:50.that community in Bulgaria and remain you, you will be looking at

:13:50. > :13:53.three and 4 million people living in real poverty excluded from society.

:13:53. > :13:57.Although the Roma people you spoke to did not want to leave their

:13:57. > :14:04.homes, they probably feel the UK was not paved with gold in the way it

:14:04. > :14:09.once was in their mind. Let's take your estimates, what would you do if

:14:09. > :14:14.you were in power between now and next January to deter people from

:14:14. > :14:18.coming? If I was David Cameron, I would come to Brussels and I would

:14:18. > :14:23.say, look, we are very happy to be part of something where we have the

:14:23. > :14:29.free movement of goods, services and capital, but we cannot have the

:14:29. > :14:34.unrestricted free flow of people between countries with huge poverty

:14:34. > :14:39.problems and relatively far better off countries like ours. What would

:14:39. > :14:43.you propose? That we do not have an uncontrolled opendoor from next

:14:43. > :14:47.year, that we go back to operating a sensible work permit scheme and

:14:47. > :14:51.tightening people to come to Britain to work but does not entitle them to

:14:51. > :14:58.the social security system. Bearing in mind the restrictions have been

:14:58. > :15:02.lifted after a period of time of transition, those same restrictions

:15:02. > :15:08.could be placed on Brits working abroad? They could be, that is

:15:08. > :15:15.right. But for everyone Britain working at the 26 European Union

:15:15. > :15:19.member states, there are four or five in United Kingdom. We have

:15:19. > :15:25.opened the doors to unrestricted migration and we have a massive

:15:25. > :15:27.oversupply in the unskilled labour market in the country. But you would

:15:27. > :15:34.be prepared to see those same restrictions and work permits placed

:15:34. > :15:38.on Brits working across the rest of the EU? Of course, we have to have

:15:38. > :15:43.common sense. France and Germany and Luxembourg and the Netherlands, this

:15:43. > :15:46.free flow of people was not a problem. We have now let in

:15:46. > :15:49.incredibly pro-countries and I am minded to say in the case of Romania

:15:49. > :15:54.that London is currently going through a remain Ian crime epidemic,

:15:54. > :16:04.that is a fact that nobody dares to talk about but it is there and it is

:16:04. > :16:04.

:16:04. > :17:02.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 57 seconds

:17:02. > :17:06.real, we need to restricted. When I We apologise for the temporary loss

:17:06. > :17:11.of subtitles. You admitted that you went to a lap-dancing club. Is that

:17:11. > :17:15.what you do always on your trips? Yes. Unwittingly, a chap who was a

:17:15. > :17:20.candidate for the French presidency, after the group Christmas party,

:17:21. > :17:24.took a load of us out. I had no idea where we were going and we

:17:24. > :17:28.were taken into one of those establishments. You're an innocent?

:17:28. > :17:32.I wouldn't describe myself as such, no. I would say this, I haven't

:17:32. > :17:42.been to one since, but whether you like it or not, it's a perfectly

:17:42. > :17:46.legal activity. Thank you. He never told me about that. There was a

:17:46. > :17:52.reason for that. All the times I've been going there. That's why I go

:17:53. > :18:02.there once a month. You are working there? Oh, he's a brave man! On the

:18:03. > :18:03.

:18:03. > :18:06.BBC. Mark Harper, MigrationWatch thinks 50,000 Bulgarians will come.

:18:06. > :18:10.The ambassadors of the two countries put it at 35,000.

:18:11. > :18:19.Newsnight had its own figure, which was higher than Newsnight implied

:18:19. > :18:25.in the press release. The honest answer, Nigel doesn't know and

:18:25. > :18:29.neither do I. A ballpark?There are eight other European countries. The

:18:29. > :18:32.difference between the last accession, there are eight others

:18:32. > :18:36.who have transitional controls like France and Germany. They are all

:18:36. > :18:40.taking their controls off at the end of the year. The idea that

:18:40. > :18:45.anybody can accurately forecast who is going to come to another

:18:45. > :18:53.European country, which one they'll come to, I just think is a fool's

:18:53. > :18:56.evidence. I perfectly understand that. You, the Home Office, as the

:18:56. > :18:58.National Institute of Economic and Social Research -- you the Home

:18:58. > :19:03.Office asked the National Institute of Economic and Social Research,

:19:03. > :19:07.but you asked them not to produce any estimates, not even the kind of

:19:07. > :19:11.Bank of England inflation side which is a fan. You asked them to

:19:11. > :19:15.produce no estimates. If they have no numbers how could you ever

:19:15. > :19:19.manage to work out the potential impact? That was a Foreign Office

:19:19. > :19:27.thing. I accept that. It's the British Government. They came back

:19:27. > :19:33.and said they couldn't put a forecast on. They actually said

:19:33. > :19:36.that. You asked them not to do it. They said it was not possible, but

:19:36. > :19:40.the committee, the independent body of economic experts who advised the

:19:40. > :19:44.Home Office, we commissioned them to work on this and they told us

:19:44. > :19:48.they didn't think was helpful or possible to put a range around the

:19:48. > :19:52.numbers for some of the reasons set out. I think on the issues it's

:19:52. > :19:56.better to be straight, than trying to produce an accurate forecast,

:19:56. > :20:03.rather than making up a number that proves to be wholly inaccurate.

:20:03. > :20:07.Sure. I know of know policy -- of no policy that doesn't proceed on

:20:07. > :20:14.the basis of at least some assumptions on numbers and the

:20:14. > :20:17.reason why they are feared to give us a projection, is because your

:20:17. > :20:22.Government made such a mess of it last time around. I think that's

:20:22. > :20:26.probably true, to be blunt. Mark's been honest. We don't know.

:20:26. > :20:30.have to lie down in a dark room. I got a straight answer to a straight

:20:30. > :20:33.question! The last Government quite clearly underestimated how many

:20:33. > :20:38.people were going to come from the accession countries last time

:20:38. > :20:40.around. We saw far more people. We were straightforward that we should

:20:40. > :20:46.have implemented transitional controls. Because the other had

:20:46. > :20:53.done it too. It's the point this was the one place to come to.

:20:53. > :21:00.should have introduced a points basis. Great. I'm grateful for that

:21:00. > :21:03.answer. UKIP, I to think, need to be called to account, because at

:21:03. > :21:08.the Eastleigh by-election they produced a leaflet that 29

:21:08. > :21:13.Bulgarians and Romanians would be coming. That would be everybody.

:21:13. > :21:18.Exactly. They suggested that all 29 million were coming. UKIP are not

:21:18. > :21:23.here to defend themselves, so back to you. In the approach, from the

:21:23. > :21:26.Government, to the Bulgarians and Romanians, having the freedom to

:21:26. > :21:32.come here from the early 2014 onwards, would yours be different

:21:32. > :21:35.from the Government? Yes, is the reality. Not different in terms of

:21:35. > :21:40.transitional controls. We think they need to keep those in place.

:21:40. > :21:46.They go in a year. They do.What would you do between now and then?

:21:46. > :21:50.We need to make sure that where we know the system is currently being

:21:50. > :21:54.exploited and in particular that's by employers and landlords who are

:21:54. > :21:58.at agencies who are bringing people to the UK, quite often to be put

:21:58. > :22:01.into poor accommodation on low wages, that there needs to be a

:22:01. > :22:05.tightening of the scrutiny of those sorts of agencies and those sorts

:22:05. > :22:08.of landlords. I think there needs to be much greater control on abuse

:22:08. > :22:15.of the national minimum wage, giving local authorities the

:22:15. > :22:19.ability to try and police the local national minimum wage and things to

:22:19. > :22:22.make it less attractive. What do you say? I've seen a lot of the

:22:22. > :22:26.work we are doing with the immigration enforcement teams,

:22:26. > :22:31.where we absolutely do that. We have cracked down on the beds and

:22:31. > :22:38.sheds operations, where you get landlords housing lots of people.

:22:38. > :22:41.Now you are allowing the more house building. Criminality is also a

:22:41. > :22:45.concern and the Romanian Prime Minister on Newsnight acknowledged

:22:45. > :22:48.and that's why we are working with the Metropolitan Police and the

:22:48. > :22:56.Romanians and with the Home Office on dealing with that. Are you

:22:56. > :23:00.making sure that people are paying the minimum wage? There are few

:23:00. > :23:04.rights. They are in a different country and there are employers who

:23:04. > :23:08.can cheat and break the law by offering them less. We are making

:23:08. > :23:12.sure that the rules are followed. How many prosecutions have there

:23:12. > :23:16.been in the last two years? When the minute numb wage was set up,

:23:16. > :23:20.the focus was on getting the money for the people concerned. That's

:23:20. > :23:25.what we have concerned. Labour only wanted prosecutions to be a last

:23:25. > :23:28.resort. What we are looking at -- There haven't been any for two

:23:28. > :23:32.years. And there weren't in the previous years. How many

:23:32. > :23:39.prosecutions were there under the 13 years of the Labour Government?

:23:39. > :23:43.I don't have the precise number but it was into hundreds. It's ten.

:23:43. > :23:48.Because it was designed for recovering the money for the

:23:48. > :23:51.workers. Can I ask you this on the broader question of the Labour side,

:23:51. > :23:56.when you apologise for your immigration policy in a sentence

:23:56. > :24:02.could you tell our viewers what you are apologising for? I think I did

:24:02. > :24:06.a moment ago, that we didn't put in place transitional orders.

:24:06. > :24:08.talking about the broader issue, what are you apologising for?

:24:08. > :24:13.fact we didn't put in place controls and thus allowed more

:24:13. > :24:18.people to come to the UK than we were anticipating. That had a big

:24:18. > :24:23.effect in certain areas of the country on terms and conditions for

:24:23. > :24:31.British workers and resulted in some people being exploited. I want

:24:31. > :24:34.to get it clear that the only thing or major thing that you got wrong -

:24:34. > :24:39.It's quite big. It's for not putting the transitional controls

:24:39. > :24:42.in for the eastern Europeans? That's it and not introducing a

:24:42. > :24:46.point-based system earlier and not understanding that not having the

:24:46. > :24:51.transitional controls would have resulted in a larger number than we

:24:51. > :24:55.anticipated. We got the numbers wrong. When you came to power there

:24:55. > :25:04.were just over 300 immigrants coming into this country -- sorry

:25:04. > :25:10.300,000 every year. I'm doing the gross, not the net figure. By 2008,

:25:10. > :25:13.it was 590,000 a year. It's almost doubled. Was that Government

:25:13. > :25:18.policy? No, I don't think it was. I know it's been suggested lots of

:25:18. > :25:22.times by opponents that there was a clear attempt to try and use cheap

:25:22. > :25:29.labour or migration. It happened my accident? Well, we had a

:25:29. > :25:33.significant number of people, the big jump was in 2007 and 2008, as I

:25:33. > :25:39.recall from the numbers. Broadly speaking, the numbers -- You were

:25:39. > :25:43.up to 516,000 by 2002, before the eastern Europeans came in. Was that

:25:43. > :25:48.explicit -- was it Government policy to double? The net number

:25:49. > :25:55.doesn't fluctuate. The net number does. It went from 62,000 when you

:25:55. > :26:00.came into power to 238,000 by 2004. If you want to go back from the

:26:00. > :26:07.Romanians, it was 160,000. I'm not arguing about the number. I'm

:26:07. > :26:13.asking you was that Government policy? I wasn't in Government, but

:26:13. > :26:18.as far as I know, no. It happened by accident? I think we were a

:26:18. > :26:21.booming economy in a Europe where there is free movement. We were

:26:21. > :26:25.also booming in terms of education and therefore a large number of

:26:25. > :26:29.those people were of course students. All right. I don't

:26:29. > :26:35.understand whether you think it's a good or bad thing or apologise or

:26:35. > :26:40.be proud of it. We'll come back to it. It's an issue that divides the

:26:40. > :26:45.nation like no other. Other like it weak and strong and others are in

:26:45. > :26:51.between. North of the border 40% like sugar in it. That could

:26:51. > :26:59.explain a lot, but only a quarter of Yorkshire people have a sweet

:26:59. > :27:03.tooth. It's a complex business, but one thing that unites us, you like

:27:03. > :27:07.to drink tea from this lovely mug. Indeed, we have that pleasure every

:27:07. > :27:17.morning. We'll remind you how to enter in a moment, but let's see if

:27:17. > :27:19.

:27:19. > :27:29.you can remember when this happened. It's a snip at �8,500.

:27:29. > :27:32.

:27:32. > :27:35.# Got brass in pocket... # My heart went bang, bang.

:27:35. > :27:45.# They got a message from the Action Man

:27:45. > :27:46.

:27:46. > :27:53.# I'm happy, hope you're happy too... #

:27:53. > :27:59.# I'm going underground # While the brass bands are

:27:59. > :28:03.playing... # # Ato theic... # Cruise missiles

:28:03. > :28:11.are fitted into the defensive strategy and are designed to deter

:28:11. > :28:21.an aggressor. The lady's not for turning!

:28:21. > :28:38.

:28:38. > :28:48.To be in with a chance of winning that Daily Politics mug, send your

:28:48. > :28:54.

:28:54. > :28:59.answer to our special e-mail The tougher competition was the one

:28:59. > :29:03.where earlier we intentionally of course switched around the

:29:03. > :29:10.Bulgarian and Romanian flags, so they were the wrong way. We wanted

:29:10. > :29:20.to test how many would spot it. Quite a few did. Only two out of

:29:20. > :29:21.

:29:21. > :29:26.100,000. You are as bad as our graphics department. We'll look at

:29:26. > :29:28.Big Ben. It's a beautiful spring day. It's almost the warmest of the

:29:29. > :29:32.year. Prime Minister's questions, which doesn't happen very often

:29:32. > :29:37.these days, which means we don't get to meet Nick as often as we

:29:38. > :29:41.would. It's been a long while. Not many more until June. What will

:29:41. > :29:45.today dominate? I think the interesting choice for Ed Miliband,

:29:45. > :29:48.does he go for the economy? He those the Prime Minister knows the

:29:48. > :29:52.GDP figures and already will know what we learn tomorrow, is the

:29:52. > :29:56.economy in a triple-dip? Unemployment up three months

:29:56. > :30:00.running and the IMF. Or, does he delay that attack and talk about

:30:00. > :30:10.what Labour are talking about in the House of Lords, which is

:30:10. > :30:46.

:30:46. > :30:50.health? In the House of Lords, service to our country. This

:30:50. > :30:56.mornings I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others,

:30:56. > :31:00.and I will have further such meetings later today.

:31:00. > :31:04.The whole house will wish to associate themselves with his

:31:04. > :31:10.tribute to Lance Corporal Jamie Webb, we pass on our deepest

:31:10. > :31:14.condolences to his family and friends. Even after tax Chambers,

:31:14. > :31:18.labour market statistics show that real earnings will have dropped

:31:18. > :31:22.�1700 since the last general election. Knowing about hard-working

:31:22. > :31:30.families across the country are getting hit hard in the pockets,

:31:30. > :31:37.does the Prime Minister wants to show any remorse or indeed apologise

:31:37. > :31:42.for giving millionaires a tax cut, including him? The people who should

:31:42. > :31:46.be apologising created this mess in the first place. Specifically on his

:31:46. > :31:50.point, we will be asking the richest in our country to pay more in every

:31:50. > :31:56.year of this Parliament than they ever did in any year of his

:31:56. > :32:01.parliament, that is the truth. Amess. My mother was very sad about

:32:01. > :32:04.the death of marriage -- Baroness Thatcher, but you was delighted that

:32:04. > :32:09.my right honourable friend has committed our party to a referendum

:32:09. > :32:13.on our relationship with the European Union. Given that my mother

:32:13. > :32:23.will be 101 next Thursday, she wondered if the referendum could be

:32:23. > :32:26.

:32:26. > :32:33.brought forward? Can I first of all... Can I first ball sent my

:32:33. > :32:36.regards to your mum, and wish her a long, happy and healthy life, and

:32:36. > :32:45.reminder that if she votes Conservative in 2015, she will have

:32:45. > :32:47.the in out referendum that the country deserves. Ed Miliband!

:32:47. > :32:52.join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to Lance Corporal Jamie

:32:52. > :33:01.Jonathan Reynolds -- Jamie Jonathan Webb of first Battalion the Mercian

:33:01. > :33:05.Regiment, he showed the most courage and bravery. People are hearing

:33:05. > :33:10.today about patients waiting on trolleys in a indeed, in some cases

:33:10. > :33:13.for more than 12 hours, and one hospital pitched a treatment tent

:33:13. > :33:19.outside its premises. What does the Prime Minister have to say for those

:33:19. > :33:24.patients waiting hour upon hour in AMD? This government believes in our

:33:24. > :33:27.NHS and is expanding funding in the NHS, we will not take the advice of

:33:27. > :33:33.the party opposite to thought that increases in NHS spending where

:33:33. > :33:36.responsible. That is their view. We will go on investing in our NHS, we

:33:36. > :33:41.need to make sure that with a million extra patients visiting a

:33:41. > :33:47.indeed each year, that we continue to hit the important targets that

:33:47. > :33:53.people get treated properly. Prime Minister is singularly failing

:33:53. > :33:56.to meet the targets he has set himself. The number of people

:33:56. > :34:01.waiting more than four hours in accident and emergency is nearly

:34:01. > :34:10.three times higher than when he came to office. First he downgraded the

:34:10. > :34:13.accident and emergency target and now he is not hitting that. As he

:34:13. > :34:15.approaches his third anniversary as Prime Minister, he needs to explain

:34:15. > :34:18.why an accident and emergency crisis is happening on his watch. For the

:34:18. > :34:23.whole of last year we met the target for accident and emergency

:34:23. > :34:28.attendance. If you take the number of occasions on which it was

:34:28. > :34:34.breached, 15 times in the last year, that is lower than the 23 times it

:34:34. > :34:41.was breached when he was in power and -- power in 2008. There is one

:34:41. > :34:46.part of the country where Labour has had control of the NHS for the last

:34:46. > :34:55.three years, Wales, where they have not hit an accident and emergency

:34:55. > :35:05.target since 2009. Perhaps he would apologise for that? Ed Miliband!

:35:05. > :35:15.me give him the figures. In 2009/ ten, people waited longer than four

:35:15. > :35:15.

:35:15. > :35:23.hours in AMD. -- in accident and emergency. It was 888,000 people --

:35:23. > :35:27.888 people. We had more doctors and nurses than ever before in the NHS

:35:27. > :35:35.when we were in power. Part of the problem is that his replacement for

:35:36. > :35:39.the NHS Direct service is in total chaos. He has a patchwork,

:35:39. > :35:46.fragmented service where over Easter 40 % of calls were abandoned because

:35:46. > :35:49.they were not answered. What will he do? If everybody wants to remember

:35:49. > :35:59.the labour record in the NHS, they have to read the report into the

:35:59. > :36:04.Stafford hospital! -- the Labour record. He mentions the fact... The

:36:04. > :36:09.number of people waiting a long time for NHS operations, that number has

:36:09. > :36:13.come down since this government came to office. Since this government

:36:13. > :36:18.came to office there are 1 million more people walking into accident

:36:18. > :36:23.and emergency, half a million more people having inpatient treat once,

:36:23. > :36:27.and the fact is that waiting times are stable or down, waiting list are

:36:27. > :36:33.down, the NHS is performing better under this government than it ever

:36:33. > :36:43.did under Labour. What happened at Stafford was terrible, and those

:36:43. > :36:44.

:36:44. > :36:51.others talked about that on the day. But, Mr speaker, -- Mr Speaker, what

:36:51. > :36:56.a disgraceful slur on the NHS to place after 1997, and the doctors

:36:56. > :36:59.nurses that made that happen. The main reason why he is failing to

:36:59. > :37:05.meet his accident and emergency target month after month is because

:37:05. > :37:12.he decided to take �3 billion away from the front line in a top-down

:37:12. > :37:17.reorganisation that nobody wanted all voted for. As a result, there

:37:17. > :37:24.are 4500 fewer nurses than when he came to power. Can he explain how it

:37:24. > :37:32.is helping care in the NHS to give nurses that P 45s? He is clearly in

:37:33. > :37:35.complete denial about what happened in the NHS under Labour. Let me just

:37:35. > :37:41.remind me -- him what his spending plans. He was asked whether he

:37:41. > :37:46.stands by his comment that it is irresponsible to cut NHS spending,

:37:46. > :37:51.he said, I do. That is Labour's official policy, to cut spending on

:37:51. > :37:57.the NHS, just like they are cutting NHS spending in Wales, waiting times

:37:57. > :38:01.are up, waiting list are up and quality is down. That is happening

:38:01. > :38:06.in the NHS under Labour. He mentions what we have done in terms of

:38:06. > :38:14.reorganisation. That will see �4.5 billion extra put into the front

:38:14. > :38:17.line compared to the cut is from Labour.

:38:17. > :38:21.He is the guy that cut NHS spending when he came to office and was told

:38:21. > :38:28.off by the head of the UK statistics authority for not being straight

:38:28. > :38:32.with people about it. Accident and emergency is the barometer of the

:38:32. > :38:37.NHS. This Prime Minister might be totally out of touch, that barometer

:38:37. > :38:41.tells us it is a system in distress. According to the Care Quality

:38:41. > :38:46.Commission, one in ten hospitals do not have adequate staffing levels.

:38:46. > :38:51.During the winter, every hospital was at some point operating beyond

:38:51. > :38:57.the safe level of bed occupancy. Hospitals are full to bursting. He

:38:57. > :39:02.is Prime Minister, what will he do? His answer is to cut NHS spending,

:39:02. > :39:06.we are investing. Let me give him simple facts about what has happened

:39:06. > :39:11.to the NHS under this government. 6000 more doctors under this

:39:11. > :39:15.government, 7000 fewer managers under this government, a million

:39:15. > :39:19.more treated in accident and emergency, half a million more day

:39:19. > :39:26.cases, mixed sex wards, commonplace and the Labour, virtually abolished

:39:26. > :39:29.under this government. Infection rates at record low levels. Waiting

:39:29. > :39:34.times for inpatients are down, waiting times for outpatients are

:39:34. > :39:40.stable. This is all happening under this coalition government, a far

:39:40. > :39:46.better record than he could boast. People up and down the country will

:39:46. > :39:49.have heard this is a Prime Minister with no answer for the crisis in

:39:49. > :39:54.accident and emergency across the country. There is a crisis in

:39:54. > :39:59.accident and urgent the, he has cut the number of nurses, the NHS

:39:59. > :40:04.helpline is in crisis and he is wasting billions of pounds on a

:40:04. > :40:11.top-down reorganisation he promised would not happen. The fact speak for

:40:11. > :40:17.themselves. The NHS is not safe in his hands. Let us examine the NHS in

:40:17. > :40:23.the hands of Labour in Wales. The NHS budget is being cut by eight %.

:40:23. > :40:27.Last time the urgent cancer care treatment was met in Wales, 2008.

:40:27. > :40:31.Last time accident and emergency targets were met, 2009. The Welsh

:40:31. > :40:36.ambulance service has missed its caller target for the last ten

:40:36. > :40:41.months. There is no cancer drugs burned. That is what you get under

:40:41. > :40:48.Labour in the NHS - longer waiting lists and all the problems we saw at

:40:49. > :40:52.the Stafford hospital would be repeated again. James Wharton.

:40:52. > :40:55.Yesterday figures showed this government has reduced the deficit

:40:55. > :41:00.by a third. Does the Prime Minister agree that to borrow and spend

:41:00. > :41:04.more, as the Shadow Chancellor has confirmed would be the Labour

:41:04. > :41:09.Wallasey, would risk squandering this programme? He is absolutely

:41:09. > :41:13.right. These are very tough times, but we have got the deficit down by

:41:13. > :41:17.a third, there are 1.25 million extra private sector jobs and we

:41:18. > :41:21.have seen a record creation of new businesses in our country. The

:41:22. > :41:25.differences between the two parties is we believe in cutting our

:41:25. > :41:29.deficit, it is their official policy to put it up. If they did that it

:41:29. > :41:39.would be higher interest rates, more businesses going bust, harder times

:41:39. > :41:39.

:41:39. > :41:43.for homeowners. Angus Robertson. government is right to prioritise

:41:43. > :41:46.the combating of sexual violence in conflict, but the Prime Minister

:41:46. > :41:52.would have more credibility if he did not accept hundreds of thousands

:41:52. > :41:58.of pounds and private dinners at Downing Street from Mr Ian Taylor.

:41:58. > :42:03.His company has admitted dealings with a notorious Serb war criminal

:42:03. > :42:09.who was indicted for, and I quote, wilfully causing great suffering,

:42:09. > :42:12.murder, wilful killing, rape and other inhumane acts. Will the Prime

:42:12. > :42:18.Minister stop hosting Mr Taylor at Downing Street and give the money

:42:18. > :42:22.back? Let me thank him for what he says about the Foreign Secretary's

:42:23. > :42:26.very commendable efforts to make sure that rape and sexual violence

:42:26. > :42:31.are no longer used as weapons of war and conflict. The government is

:42:31. > :42:35.putting a huge impetus behind this. I think it is totally regrettable he

:42:35. > :42:41.tries to play some kind of political card and the rest of what he said.

:42:41. > :42:45.Mr Lee Scott. Does the Prime Minister agree with me that helping

:42:45. > :42:49.people who want to work harder is the right wing to do? Taking them

:42:49. > :42:53.out of tax altogether is the right thing to do, and making work pay is

:42:53. > :43:01.the right thing to do, and not insulting them, as some politicians

:43:01. > :43:05.have done, by calling them trash? This government is on the side of

:43:06. > :43:10.hard-working families. We have kept interest rates low, frozen council

:43:10. > :43:15.tax, cut income tax for 24 million people, taken more than 2 million

:43:15. > :43:18.people out of income tax altogether, our welfare reforms, sadly not

:43:19. > :43:25.supported by the party opposite, making sure that work always pays.

:43:25. > :43:30.Sharon Hodgson. The daily Telegraph today reports that 1 million people

:43:30. > :43:34.have been declared fit for work by the DWP. Does this include people

:43:34. > :43:41.like my constituent, Michael Moore, who despite multiple illnesses and

:43:41. > :43:47.disabilities was declared fit for work in July? Mr Speaker, Michael

:43:47. > :43:51.died in February this year aged just 56. I am very sorry on behalf of the

:43:52. > :43:56.whole House on the death of her constituent, but I would have

:43:56. > :43:59.thought that she and everyone in this House would accept it is

:43:59. > :44:03.necessary to have racist and to check who is available to work and

:44:03. > :44:08.who is not available. The whole point of the appointment and support

:44:08. > :44:13.allowance programme is we judge those people who can work but need

:44:13. > :44:16.extra help and those who can't work who should also be looked after. I

:44:16. > :44:24.find it extraordinary that heads are shaking in the party opposite, I

:44:24. > :44:26.thought it was the Labour Party, not the welfare party! Amber Rudd. It is

:44:26. > :44:34.essential that this government continues with much-needed welfare

:44:35. > :44:40.reform. It is having a really crease that effect in Hastings, with

:44:40. > :44:43.unemployment falling. Could I urge the Prime Minister to stay on this

:44:43. > :44:46.track and make the difficult decisions when he has two for the

:44:46. > :44:50.difficult decisions when he has two for that in this country as not to

:44:50. > :44:54.listen to the voices which only have one thing to suggest a - Row,

:44:54. > :44:58.borrow, borrow. I think she is absolutely right. Since the

:44:58. > :45:04.election, the number of people out of work benefit has fallen by

:45:04. > :45:08.270,000. It is absolutely essential that we continue with programmes to

:45:08. > :45:12.boost enterprise but also to make work pay. We should not listen to

:45:12. > :45:16.the party opposite on issues like the benefit, which the Shadow

:45:16. > :45:20.Chancellor was on the radio last week saying that �26,000 was

:45:20. > :45:30.unfair. I think people across the country will be incredulous that is

:45:30. > :45:39.

:45:39. > :45:41.pay is up by 27%. Tax cuts for millionaires and wealthy

:45:41. > :45:45.corporations and the ordinary members of the public have got to

:45:45. > :45:50.pay for it. When is the Prime Minister going to represent all of

:45:50. > :45:55.the people in the country and not just his privileged chums? I tell

:45:55. > :45:58.you what this Government has done, it's taken two million off the

:45:58. > :46:03.lowest-paid people out of income tax altogether. It's delivered a

:46:03. > :46:07.tax cut for 24 million people. It has frozen the fuel duty, it's

:46:07. > :46:11.freezing the council tax up and down the country. If people want to

:46:11. > :46:17.make an impact they should vote Conservative on May 2nd to make

:46:17. > :46:23.sure they keep their council tax down. Can I congratulate the Prime

:46:23. > :46:32.Minister on his support for the exhibition on modern slavery in the

:46:32. > :46:36.Upper Waiting Hall? 200 years after it being abolished, modern slavery

:46:36. > :46:43.continues. It's the second most lucrative crime in the world. Can

:46:43. > :46:47.he confirm that his Government will continue to engage in this?

:46:47. > :46:51.very grateful. This is a very serious issue and I pay tribute to

:46:51. > :46:55.the all-party group in the both Houses and to Anthony Stein who has

:46:55. > :46:59.campaigned long and hard on this issue. Anyone who thinks that

:46:59. > :47:04.slavery was effectively abolished in 1807 has another think coming. I

:47:04. > :47:07.would urge members, if they haven't seen this exhibition in that

:47:07. > :47:11.chamber in the House of Commons, to go and see it and to see all of the

:47:11. > :47:15.different ways that people can be trapped into slavery and it is

:47:15. > :47:19.notable, this is not just people who are trafficicked from eastern

:47:19. > :47:23.Europe or elsewhere. There are examples of slavery of British

:47:23. > :47:29.citizens in this country, being put into forced labour. There is more

:47:29. > :47:32.for Government to do. I wonder if the Prime Minister would be kind

:47:32. > :47:39.enough to tell the House how much he will benefit personally from the

:47:39. > :47:44.scrapping of the 50 pence tax rate? As I've said before, I will pay

:47:44. > :47:47.every appropriate tax, but like everybody else, every single

:47:47. > :47:50.taxpayer in this country is benefiting from the rise in the

:47:50. > :47:55.personal allowance that we've put in place. Everyone can benefit from

:47:55. > :48:00.a freeze in the council tax. Everyone can benefit from what we

:48:00. > :48:06.have done on fuel duty and everyone would pay the price of another

:48:06. > :48:11.Labour government. The Government's cap on benefits has already

:48:11. > :48:15.incentivised 8,000 people back into work. Doesn't this demonstrate how

:48:15. > :48:21.important welfare reform is, getting people back to work and

:48:21. > :48:25.making work pay? A policy opposed by the party opposite. I Mihajlovic

:48:25. > :48:28.honourable friend is absolutely right. The measures on reform, like

:48:28. > :48:33.the benefit cap and the 1% increase, making sure that people are

:48:33. > :48:36.available for work, making sure that you can't get jobseeker's

:48:36. > :48:39.allowance unless you take proper steps to find a job, all of these

:48:39. > :48:44.are being fairness in our country and making work pay. What is

:48:44. > :48:49.interesting about all of them, even the proposal to stop paying housing

:48:49. > :48:55.benefit of sometimes up to �100,000 to a single family, every single

:48:55. > :49:02.one of those welfare changes has one thing in common, opposed by the

:49:02. > :49:05.party opposite. On the subject of jobs, last week 21 Tory MEPs voted

:49:05. > :49:09.against their EU admission trading scheme, meaning that British

:49:09. > :49:13.industry will face much higher energy prices than their European

:49:13. > :49:20.competitors, threatening jobs and investment. When will the Prime

:49:20. > :49:22.Minister get a grip of his party and stand up for British business?

:49:22. > :49:28.I thought the honourable gentleman might start by thanking the

:49:28. > :49:32.Chancellor for the move taken in the Budget to help very important

:49:32. > :49:36.businesses in his constituency, with excessive energy costs, but

:49:36. > :49:40.clearly the milk of human kindness is running a bit thin with the

:49:40. > :49:44.honourable gentleman. I have to say, if we are going to get into

:49:44. > :49:51.lectures about MEPs, perhaps he could get his to stop voting

:49:51. > :49:55.against the British rebate! Prime Minister will be aware last

:49:55. > :49:58.week three people in Cumbria were arrested for apparently blowing the

:49:58. > :50:03.whistle in the public interest over the actions of the Police

:50:03. > :50:08.Commissioner. Will he agree with me that this is a threat to freedom of

:50:08. > :50:11.speech, an outrage in a democratic society and intervene to make sure

:50:11. > :50:15.there is an independent investigation? I'll look at this

:50:15. > :50:18.case. In general, we should support whistleblowers and what they do to

:50:18. > :50:28.help improve the provision of public services, but I'll look and

:50:28. > :50:29.

:50:29. > :50:32.get back to him. The wilful neglect of residents in their care homes is

:50:32. > :50:39.a crime, but too often victims and their families don't get any

:50:39. > :50:47.justice. Time and again we have seen injury, abuse. Sometimes we

:50:47. > :50:50.have seen death. Why don't we have a law that's fit for purpose on

:50:50. > :50:55.your third anniversary? He's right to raise this issue. We have seen

:50:55. > :50:58.over the last few years some frankly shocking examples of not

:50:58. > :51:02.just malpractice, but crime taking place in our care homes and there

:51:02. > :51:06.are a number of investigations under way. I think one of the most

:51:06. > :51:09.important things to do is make sure the Care Quality Commission is up

:51:09. > :51:13.to the task of investigating these homes properly and has really

:51:13. > :51:17.robust structures in place. That wasn't what we found when we got in.

:51:17. > :51:21.In terms of making sure the criminal law is available, it is

:51:21. > :51:26.already available. When there are bad examples the police and the

:51:26. > :51:31.prosecuting authorities can intervene and they should do so.

:51:31. > :51:35.people have died using DNP, a highly toxic herbicide band for use

:51:36. > :51:39.as a slimming drug, but available online alongside other dubious

:51:39. > :51:43.products. What commitment can the Prime Minister give that he'll work

:51:43. > :51:50.across Government to make sure this trade is stopped and in so doing

:51:50. > :51:52.help to prevent the deaths of more young people? This morning I read

:51:52. > :51:56.the tragic case of the girl who died from taking this substance.

:51:56. > :52:00.One can only think of the heartache her family and other families go

:52:00. > :52:04.through when things like this happen. I will very care fly look

:52:04. > :52:10.at what she says. This isn't an easy issue, because the substance

:52:10. > :52:12.is banned as a slimming drug, but it is legal as a herbicide, as I

:52:12. > :52:20.understand it. We have to look carefully across Government about

:52:20. > :52:26.what we can do to warn people about these things. Was the Prime

:52:26. > :52:31.Minister consulted on the decision to reject the appointment of

:52:31. > :52:34.Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson to the chair of Sport England? These

:52:35. > :52:44.decisions are made by the secretary for media and sport quite rightly

:52:45. > :52:45.

:52:45. > :52:50.and she's reached a very good decision. The armed forces and

:52:50. > :52:54.their covenant is something that members on this side of the House

:52:54. > :52:58.are proud of. The Prime Minister will be aware of the community

:52:58. > :53:05.covenant, launched by the British Legion to which 300 local

:53:05. > :53:09.authorities have signed up to. Sadly not mine in Enfield nor

:53:09. > :53:13.another 132. Would the Prime Minister join me in urging these

:53:13. > :53:18.councils to sign this covenant locally and help support work

:53:18. > :53:21.across the constituency and in particular before Armed Forces Day?

:53:21. > :53:26.I'm grateful to my friend for raising this issue. My local

:53:26. > :53:31.authority in Oxfordshire was one of the first to sign up to the

:53:31. > :53:34.community covenant, with all the skpopblts we feel we have station -

:53:34. > :53:37.- responsibilities we feel we have. I would urge all local authorities

:53:37. > :53:42.to look at this. It covenant is a real breakthrough for our country

:53:42. > :53:46.in a way we can all show respect for what they do and I would

:53:46. > :53:53.commend the fact that this Government is using the LIBOR fines

:53:53. > :53:56.to help fund some really powerful elements of the covenant, so it

:53:56. > :54:05.means people in the economy are paying for some of those who behave

:54:05. > :54:10.the best. Can the Prime Minister explain the postponement of certain

:54:10. > :54:16.pilots and is this the beginning of the unravelling of this unworkable

:54:16. > :54:21.and unfair welfare reforms? pilots are going ahead, starting in

:54:21. > :54:25.parts of the north-west of England. I think it's very important that we

:54:25. > :54:28.do have proper pilots and evaluations of pilots. We want to

:54:28. > :54:33.learn the lesson of some of the failures of the Tex credit system

:54:33. > :54:37.brought in in a big bang and ending up with big disaster. It's right we

:54:37. > :54:41.are piloting and, but as the Secretary of State -- but the

:54:41. > :54:46.Secretary of State says the programme is on target and budget.

:54:46. > :54:50.Council taxpayers in Essex pay �5,000 for the local leader and his

:54:51. > :54:58.cronies to attend the Conservative Party Conference. It's one of

:54:58. > :55:01.hundreds of dodgy transagencies using council credit cards. --

:55:01. > :55:05.transactions using council credit cards. Does the Prime Minister

:55:05. > :55:10.agree that such misuse of public money should be the subject of an

:55:10. > :55:14.independent inquiry? Obviously, it's important on these issues that

:55:14. > :55:17.they are looked into. I'm sorry to disappoint my honourable friend.

:55:17. > :55:20.Frequently we are in agreement, but on this issue I think if people in

:55:20. > :55:27.Essex want good value for money it's very important to back the

:55:28. > :55:35.Conservatives. The Prime Minister thinks the food banks are a good

:55:35. > :55:41.example of big society. Last year, 7,400 people in Stoke-on-Trent

:55:41. > :55:46.needed them, including 2,600 children just to stop them starving.

:55:46. > :55:49.From this week, due to his welfare changes, the food banks have been

:55:49. > :55:54.forced to restrict food only to families with children and only to

:55:54. > :56:00.people over the age of 65. Isn't it true the Prime Minister has failed

:56:00. > :56:05.Britain and highs big society is overwhelmed? I'm disappointed if

:56:05. > :56:09.what the honourable gentleman says, because it was the last Government,

:56:09. > :56:14.in 2003, that gave to the Trustle Trust, really the organisation

:56:14. > :56:19.behind Britain's food banks, gave them a Golden Jubilee award for

:56:19. > :56:26.voluntary service. This is what, and I'm glad to see in his place

:56:26. > :56:30.the member for Sheffield Brideside, he said that it was enhanced

:56:30. > :56:34.quality of life for other in the community. Of course, these are

:56:34. > :56:37.difficult times and of course food bank use went up ten times under

:56:37. > :56:46.Labour, but I think we should praise people that play a role in

:56:46. > :56:50.our society rather than sneer at them. The Chief Executive of

:56:50. > :56:53.Cumbria County Council is to leave the authority with an agreed

:56:53. > :56:57.package. I believe it will be substantial and run into hundreds

:56:57. > :57:01.of thousands of pound. Would the Prime Minister agree that this and

:57:01. > :57:04.similar arrangements are difficult for the public to accept and are

:57:04. > :57:09.certainly not good use of taxpayers' money? I would agree

:57:09. > :57:13.with what my honourable friend says. We do now require councils to

:57:13. > :57:16.publish their pay policies and councils should all be voting on

:57:16. > :57:20.these deals so they can vote against excessive deals. That's

:57:20. > :57:23.something that ha changed under this Government. I would urge all

:57:23. > :57:26.councils on whatever political persuasion, to look at what they

:57:26. > :57:29.can do to share chief executives and finance directors and to come

:57:30. > :57:32.pain their back-office costs. Everybody knows whoever was in

:57:32. > :57:35.Government right now, public spending reductions would have to

:57:35. > :57:45.be made. Let's make them by taking it out of the back office, rather

:57:45. > :57:49.than the front line. Is the Prime Minister aware the Scottish

:57:49. > :57:55.liquidation last weekend and 600 people have lost their jobs? The

:57:56. > :57:59.majority are in my constituency. The Tories closed the deep mines in

:57:59. > :58:04.the 1980s. Will he stand behind the district today or will it just be

:58:04. > :58:07.the same old Tories? I'm very happy to look at what she says. We want

:58:07. > :58:10.to support all of our industries in Britain, including the coal

:58:10. > :58:14.industry whether it's in Scotland or England. Obviously, in Scotland

:58:14. > :58:18.since the election, the number of people in work has gone up, but we

:58:18. > :58:24.need to see that go further and faster and I'm very happy to look

:58:24. > :58:28.at the particular industrial example she gives. On Monday my

:58:28. > :58:37.right honourable friend came to Derbyshire to support our council

:58:37. > :58:41.candidates for the next election. But at the same time, he visited a

:58:41. > :58:45.manufacturing company. Does he not agree with me that to get

:58:45. > :58:52.manufacturing companies to continue to export and expand their exports

:58:52. > :58:56.such as the ones in my constituency, is our best way out of recession?

:58:56. > :59:02.think my honourable friend is absolutely right. The forn tour

:59:02. > :59:05.manufacturer that I went to visit and see sales increase by 25%, is

:59:05. > :59:08.going into new markets and investing and it is doing all of

:59:08. > :59:12.the things this Government is backing and supporting we want to

:59:12. > :59:16.back many more firms doing exactly that. Her wider point is also right.

:59:16. > :59:22.People in her area, who want to see another year of a council tax

:59:22. > :59:27.freeze need to vote very carefully on May 2nd. Will the Prime Minister

:59:27. > :59:29.give careful consideration to the recommendations of the

:59:30. > :59:35.environmental audit Select Committee's report on bees and

:59:35. > :59:40.pesticides and will he, on morbgs of next week, give his -- Monday of

:59:40. > :59:50.next week, give his Government's backing on the more forium of three

:59:50. > :59:50.

:59:50. > :59:56.certain pesticides? -- moratorium of three certain pesticides? I am a

:59:57. > :59:59.life patron of the Bee Keepers Association in Oxfordshire. I have

:59:59. > :00:04.been neglecting my duties, that I haven't been able to give her a

:00:04. > :00:09.better answer today, but I know how important the issue is. If we don't

:00:09. > :00:14.look after the bee populations very serious consequences will follow.

:00:14. > :00:18.Today sees the publication of the all-party Parliamentary cycling

:00:19. > :00:24.groups' report, Get Britain Cycling. Calls from leaderboard from the

:00:24. > :00:29.very top. Will he look at the report and make sure he produces a

:00:29. > :00:35.good action plan and give his commitment to leaderboard to --

:00:35. > :00:45.leadership to get Britain cycling? Order. I can't for the life of my

:00:45. > :00:47.

:00:47. > :00:51.think both members -- sides groan when the honourable doctor gets up.

:00:51. > :00:55.The House should heed what he says. We should be doing much more to

:00:55. > :00:59.encourage cycling and I think the report has many good points in it.

:00:59. > :01:02.I would commend what the Mayor of London has done in London to

:01:02. > :01:08.promote cycling and I hope local authorities can follow his lead in

:01:08. > :01:13.making sure that we do more. the Prime Minister tell the House

:01:13. > :01:19.whether the deep shade of red that he turned when asked the question

:01:19. > :01:23.by the honourable member for Ogmore, as to whether he had been consulted

:01:23. > :01:29.on the appointment of Tanni Grey- Thompson, was in place of an answer

:01:29. > :01:32."yes"? We have got an excellent new head of Sport England and Sport UK.

:01:32. > :01:41.That is what matters. These are decisions for the Secretary of

:01:41. > :01:46.State. They are absolutely right that she takes them. Does the Prime

:01:46. > :01:50.Minister agree that you do not solve a debt crisis by borrowing

:01:50. > :01:55.more? And that for the party to have any credibility they need to

:01:55. > :02:03.acknowledge the mess they made, apologise to my constituents and

:02:03. > :02:07.just say sorry? My honourable friend is absolutely right. On this

:02:07. > :02:12.side of the House we know we have to get borrowing down. Frankly, in

:02:12. > :02:17.the last week what we have seen is the right honourable gentleman in

:02:17. > :02:21.his true colours. Too weak to stand up to the Shadow Chancellor and too

:02:21. > :02:25.weak to stand up to the backbenchers on welfare and the

:02:25. > :02:34.unions on just about anything. It's a week in which he said goodbye to

:02:34. > :02:44.David Miliband and hello to George Galloway. No wonder Tony Blair said,

:02:44. > :02:58.

:02:58. > :03:06.they're fellow travellers, not health, A&E, nurses getting their P

:03:06. > :03:15.45's. The Prime Minister was drawing unfavourable comparisons with Labour

:03:16. > :03:21.running the health service in Wales. We have a Welsh MP on, and a person

:03:21. > :03:29.whose constituency borders Wales, but first, your e-mails.

:03:29. > :03:35.Lots of e-mails. Ed Miliband was put today says one person from Bury

:03:35. > :03:39.Saint Edmunds, quoting statistics and generally thrashing around to

:03:40. > :03:45.launch a punch on David Cameron. The NHS in Wales is clearly an Achilles

:03:45. > :03:49.heel for Labour. Someone from Milton Keynes says they should tell David

:03:50. > :03:54.Cameron take seven years to train a doctor, so how can he claim there

:03:54. > :03:59.are more doctors since he got in? As to judge the whole of the NHS in

:03:59. > :04:03.Staffordshire, it is cheap and insulting. The NHS trust agreement

:04:03. > :04:08.proved under Labour after 18 years of the Conservatives. James says

:04:08. > :04:10.that people died at the Stafford hospital and the leaders of two

:04:10. > :04:18.parties are squabbling over who is the least inefficient, that is

:04:18. > :04:22.another tragedy. Tom says, the only time I hear about the NHS crisis is

:04:22. > :04:27.chewing Prime Minister's Questions. I think it is not from government

:04:27. > :04:33.failing but from pool and inadequate administration at local level.

:04:33. > :04:39.The Home Secretary Theresa May is on her feet, making a statement on Abu

:04:39. > :04:43.Qatada, the long-running soap about the terrorist we can't get rid of,

:04:43. > :04:53.or terror suspect, before the BBC lawyer pulls me down. It is longer

:04:53. > :04:56.

:04:56. > :05:02.running van Mousetrap. -- van Mousetrap. I think from Theresa May

:05:02. > :05:04.we will get a sense of yet another deal with the Jordanian government

:05:04. > :05:09.designed to assure the court that the Jordanians in the future would

:05:09. > :05:14.not allow just torture but would not allow evidence obtained from torture

:05:14. > :05:17.to be used in their court process. I think she will be outlining the way

:05:17. > :05:22.in which the government thinks they have made progress with the

:05:22. > :05:26.Jordanians, but it would still mean the whole process has to start again

:05:26. > :05:31.through the courts. Abu Qatada's lawyers will have to appeal to the

:05:31. > :05:35.appeal Court, possibly the Supreme Court. If there is a welcome to what

:05:35. > :05:41.she announces, there will be a long way to go. You told us it would be

:05:41. > :05:45.health, and it was. But I said it might be on the issue of the

:05:45. > :05:49.so-called section 75, the regulations about future, in

:05:49. > :05:57.inverted commas, privatisation of the NHS. I thought Ed Miliband might

:05:57. > :06:03.bring that in as well. Obviously the point is about A&E weights, it is a

:06:03. > :06:09.very immediate experience for people sitting here in this studio. -- A&E

:06:09. > :06:13.waiting times. We have been talking about our experience. He called it

:06:13. > :06:17.not a health crisis but an A&E crisis. The Prime Minister can say

:06:17. > :06:22.that waiting list for ordinary operations are down, so on that part

:06:22. > :06:26.of the record the government has not caused a problem in the way that we

:06:26. > :06:31.possibly all thought would happen given the squeeze on NHS funding,

:06:31. > :06:37.but clearly it is the case that A&E waiting times are going up. Beyond

:06:37. > :06:42.the argument about resources, there is an interesting debate about the

:06:42. > :06:46.way A&E is changing in our lifetime, the attitudes of people not to go to

:06:46. > :06:51.their family doctor as a first port of call but you tend to want to go

:06:51. > :06:56.to A&E. Either it is because of working times, they are immigrants

:06:56. > :07:03.to the country and do not have a family doctor, it is not just a

:07:03. > :07:11.resource issue. It is also about the way we all have our attitudes.

:07:11. > :07:20.ask the Minister, why has the needing to wait for over four hours

:07:20. > :07:23.in A&E gone from 340,000 people to 888,000 people? One of the things is

:07:24. > :07:27.the increasing demand for the A&E servers. It is not obvious why that

:07:27. > :07:33.should be, I think Nick has probably put his finger on it about the way

:07:33. > :07:36.that people use the service. The Secretary of State has talked about

:07:36. > :07:39.getting the help service and how it operates to be more focused on

:07:39. > :07:45.people's needs and to have it work in terms of non-emergency care as

:07:45. > :07:54.well. Clearly, A&E should not be the first port of call for things other

:07:54. > :08:01.than accident and emergency. This is not a small increase, it is a

:08:01. > :08:04.doubling. When I was looking at some of the pressures on the ambulance

:08:04. > :08:10.service and about A&E myself, asking the ambulance trust what they

:08:10. > :08:13.thought were behind the increases, partly it was a good understanding

:08:13. > :08:18.that they did not have, but partly it was cultural and when people

:08:18. > :08:25.think it is appropriate to use A&E, when they think it is appropriate to

:08:25. > :08:31.call an ambulance as opposed to making their own way. If that was

:08:31. > :08:35.the case it would be a linear change over years? If you are driving a big

:08:35. > :08:39.increase in demand, it is how you respond. That is a challenge for the

:08:39. > :08:44.health service to deal with at a local level as well as national.

:08:44. > :08:50.you saying the huge rise in people waiting for over four hours is a

:08:50. > :08:52.consequence of cutting the frontline resources? I think there has to be

:08:52. > :08:58.some connection between resources being deployed and those sorts of

:08:58. > :09:01.changes, and the Prime Minister has been pulled up by the office for

:09:01. > :09:11.National statistics for being a bit injudicious in his use of

:09:11. > :09:12.

:09:12. > :09:15.statistics. Finish on the A&E, then I will come to Wales. There was a

:09:15. > :09:20.big announcement by the Welsh health minister yesterday about dealing

:09:20. > :09:24.with this. It is about bed blocking, getting people through the

:09:24. > :09:30.system so people sitting in A&E for longer periods, because there are

:09:30. > :09:35.not beds available, which is why we are trying to get social care more

:09:35. > :09:38.aligned with the health service, there is the simple thing of

:09:38. > :09:44.demographics. We have an ageing population, more people living at

:09:44. > :09:49.home, being kept well through better use of medication. Then they reach

:09:49. > :09:54.crisis point, at that point they go to A&E because they have reached

:09:54. > :09:58.crisis point, the point at which they need real... I also think there

:09:58. > :10:07.is an issue around GP's and the issue around getting an appointment

:10:07. > :10:13.with a GP. It seems to be a complex number of reasons for the ANDA --

:10:13. > :10:16.for the A&E figures. Let's come on to Wales, the Prime Minister's case

:10:16. > :10:21.is basically that Labour runs the health service in Wales and it is

:10:21. > :10:25.going to hell in a handbasket. he is wrong. He is wrong about the

:10:25. > :10:30.numbers in terms of the cut, for several reasons. The Welsh

:10:30. > :10:34.government deploys the many it is given by the Parliamentary in

:10:34. > :10:40.Westminster. David Cameron has cut the budget of the Welsh National

:10:40. > :10:43.Assembly by �2 billion. Tough decisions have been made within

:10:43. > :10:50.Wales because of the overall envelope being cut. Within Wales,

:10:50. > :10:55.the government took a decision to increase spending on education and

:10:55. > :10:58.cut by one % spending on health. Because, we felt, in Wales, that

:10:58. > :11:03.having tripled spending and wealth over the period of the Labour

:11:03. > :11:09.Government, our priority ought to be education. That is not doing too

:11:09. > :11:13.well either. We need to make significant improvement. Our

:11:13. > :11:18.hospitals under all sorts of measures are doing extremely well.

:11:18. > :11:23.MRSA in Wales is significantly better than England. Cancer survival

:11:23. > :11:28.rates... Waiting times worse. dishonest with the number. The

:11:28. > :11:32.comparative between England and Wales is fundamentally different,

:11:32. > :11:40.always has been. The starting point of waiting times in Wales is

:11:40. > :11:47.different. The moment I hear comparators, I am in trouble. How do

:11:47. > :11:56.you back-up the Prime Minister's case? I have a number of

:11:56. > :11:59.constituents registered with GPS in Wales who are told they have to use

:11:59. > :12:05.the GPL Wales, and they do not want to because they think the service is

:12:05. > :12:09.worse. We have had to make difficult decisions and government across a

:12:09. > :12:15.range of issues, we have chosen to spend on the health service. In

:12:15. > :12:19.Wales, the Welsh Labour government has chosen to cut spending, there is

:12:19. > :12:26.an argument over how much but he has admitted the cut. As you have in

:12:26. > :12:30.England. I think that is an interesting comparison. We have a

:12:30. > :12:36.Labour Government in the part of the UK which has chosen not to spend on

:12:36. > :12:42.health, we have prioritised it. of the interesting developments in

:12:42. > :12:48.devolution is that you can make eternal comparisons. We are not

:12:48. > :12:53.privatising in Wales, for example, as in England. Nick Robinson?

:12:53. > :12:57.phrase not safe in her hands, use about Margaret Thatcher, Ed Miliband

:12:57. > :13:03.deployed it. He must have thought quite carefully about it. We know

:13:03. > :13:08.that David Cameron used the health service... I can't get a word in

:13:08. > :13:11.next nation mark we know that he used it as a key way of saying his

:13:11. > :13:17.Conservative Party is different to hers. We know the Labour Party want

:13:17. > :13:21.to prove that is wrong. It is quite an important moment. Ed Miliband

:13:21. > :13:25.could have waited a year, but to use that phrase today, not safe in his

:13:25. > :13:30.hands, it is a potent race for anybody in politics and marks the

:13:30. > :13:40.sense that Labour have had for a long time that this is a real

:13:40. > :13:43.Achilles heel for David Cameron and shows people's actual experience of

:13:43. > :13:49.healthcare feeds in, they will have something they can use against the

:13:49. > :13:53.Tories. David Cameron called them the welfare party, not the Labour

:13:54. > :14:01.Party. Thank you very much, we will see you next year, depending on when

:14:01. > :14:07.the next PMQs is! I am missing him already!

:14:07. > :14:07.Has building is near its lowest level for decades. Homes for rent

:14:07. > :14:12.and purchase have become unaffordable to many and the

:14:12. > :14:15.construct gin industry is in desperate need of a boost. The

:14:15. > :14:23.government is trying to get builders building. But are these efforts

:14:23. > :14:24.putting green fields and rule spaces at risk? Former Poet Laureate Andrew

:14:24. > :14:34.Motion is president of the Campaign to Protect Rural England. Here is

:14:34. > :14:38.

:14:38. > :14:44.Land is a precious resource and we need to look after it and build on

:14:44. > :14:47.it wisely. We have made good progress in the last few years.

:14:47. > :14:54.About three quarters of houses built now are put up on Brownfield sites,

:14:54. > :14:59.previously developed land. The government says its planning reforms

:14:59. > :15:04.will protect the green belts and areas of outstanding beauty, making

:15:04. > :15:08.the most of every square inch of Brownfield land and allowing local

:15:08. > :15:14.people to take part in the decisions affecting them, but there is on --

:15:14. > :15:17.incontrovertible evidence that this is simply not true. Developers will

:15:17. > :15:23.build a number of houses they think they can sell profitably. If they

:15:23. > :15:28.must build them on Brownfield sites they will, but they prefer to build

:15:28. > :15:33.on open fields. 80,000 homes have recently been built on green belt

:15:33. > :15:39.land, with them a number of retail and industrial parks. Some people

:15:39. > :15:42.hold the view that we simply need to build, build anything, anywhere, but

:15:42. > :15:45.this is incompatible with localism. It will destroy swathes of

:15:45. > :15:53.countryside and result in a backlash making it harder for this country to

:15:53. > :15:55.build the homes we need. We know that we need to build more houses

:15:55. > :15:59.and we are trying to engage constructively with government about

:15:59. > :16:04.how to get them built, including through our work on neighbourhood

:16:04. > :16:10.planning. We believe we can build new houses, houses in which people

:16:10. > :16:15.actually want to live and that we can protect our countryside. We can

:16:15. > :16:19.and should do both, we need to do both. When you concrete over green

:16:19. > :16:23.spaces, that is England gone. England is finite, it is beautiful,

:16:23. > :16:29.we are the guardians of that. We are passionately in favour of housing

:16:29. > :16:33.where it is needed, but must this always be in our beautiful,

:16:33. > :16:43.pressures, irreplaceable countryside just because it is more profitable

:16:43. > :16:51.

:16:51. > :16:55.with us now. Andrew, you said yourself, we need more housing. Is

:16:55. > :16:59.it time to look at all evaibl land that perhaps at least some of it

:16:59. > :17:03.should be -- available land, that perhaps at least some of it should

:17:03. > :17:08.be given up? The obvious place is brownfield sites, because there are

:17:08. > :17:11.so many available. We don't need to start smoothing concrete on

:17:11. > :17:14.greenbelt areas until we have used those brownfield sites.

:17:14. > :17:18.Historically, in this country, we have always been rather good, so

:17:18. > :17:23.that's the place to begin. There are literally thousands of them

:17:23. > :17:29.waiting to be used. For various reasons, it's easier and handier

:17:29. > :17:33.for developers go for the greenery. They can build bigger houses and

:17:33. > :17:37.maximise profits. They don't have to worry about the objections of

:17:37. > :17:42.local people in other terms in the same sort of way and so on. There

:17:42. > :17:45.is no infrastructure there. Once you've done it, you can't obviously

:17:45. > :17:48.retrieve that bit of England again. It's gone forever. What do you

:17:48. > :17:53.think of the Government's approach in preventing that happening and

:17:53. > :17:56.trying to encourage builders to develop brownfield sites that are

:17:56. > :18:02.available? There's not nearly enough encouragement of that.

:18:02. > :18:05.They've taken the brakes of that. I can see you are shaking your head,

:18:05. > :18:12.but it is manifestly the case. There are examples everywhere.

:18:12. > :18:15.do you say to that? You have taken the brakes off, otherwise people

:18:15. > :18:20.wouldn'ting building? I don't agree. The most important thing we have

:18:20. > :18:23.done, which is the opposite of what Andrew has said, is to remove the

:18:23. > :18:27.regional strategies, so local councils have much more control

:18:27. > :18:30.over where houses are built and they can properly balance the need

:18:30. > :18:39.for housing, which Andrew acknowledged is required, against

:18:39. > :18:43.where you put it. We'll come on to the who makes the decision. Is it

:18:43. > :18:47.protected completely, greenbelt from development? We haven't

:18:47. > :18:54.changed the extent to which it is protected. Why does Andrew Motion

:18:54. > :18:58.say that's not the case? In the planning policies, greenbelt land

:18:58. > :19:02.retains that specific protection. It doesn't mean you never build on

:19:02. > :19:06.a green field everywhere, but Andrew is right, you want to build

:19:06. > :19:09.on brownfield sites and there will be requirements to build on areas

:19:09. > :19:13.not previously developed and those decisions should be made by elected

:19:13. > :19:15.councillors who can balance the need for housing and development in

:19:15. > :19:19.their local communities with the protection of the countryside.

:19:19. > :19:23.you think building on brownfield sides should be exhausted first

:19:23. > :19:27.before the options of building on green fields and open spaces are

:19:27. > :19:31.looked after? They have to be taken locally. Some areas will have a

:19:31. > :19:35.range of brownfield sites which they can use in those cases. Some

:19:35. > :19:39.areas will not. The decisions need to be taken locally to balance

:19:39. > :19:47.properly the competing priorities. You don't want someone in Whitehall

:19:47. > :19:51.making all the decisions. Are they, Andrew Motion? If what you were

:19:51. > :19:54.saying would be true, we wouldn't be bothering to have this

:19:54. > :19:58.conversation. In every direction and everybody you talk to and in

:19:58. > :20:01.every part of the country, there are brakes taken off building on

:20:01. > :20:07.green sites and there are houses being put on greenfield sites,

:20:07. > :20:12.where there is no need, because there are so much brownfield area

:20:12. > :20:16.available to them. The idea that local people are involved with this,

:20:16. > :20:22.or theoretically they are, but it's not happening. The National

:20:22. > :20:26.Planning Policy Framework, that catchy title, has actually run into

:20:26. > :20:32.some confusion in terms of what local people really have power over

:20:32. > :20:35.in terms. It is all very well you saying it's up to local people, but

:20:35. > :20:38.it isn't. If you are a local person who has an objection and there are

:20:38. > :20:43.thousands of them around the country who have that objection and

:20:43. > :20:46.you turn to the local planning officer and ask them to wade in and

:20:46. > :20:49.the local officer and council, all the local operations around them,

:20:49. > :20:53.they don't have the material in the planning law to defend their

:20:53. > :20:57.position. They are not going to get listened to. That is the problem.

:20:57. > :21:01.It's a very good point. Clearly, local councils have the power and

:21:01. > :21:04.have to look at the demand for housing and the needs for the local

:21:04. > :21:09.community and have to have a plan. If the local council hasn't done a

:21:09. > :21:12.good job and hasn't got a plan, then it is vulnerable to developers

:21:12. > :21:16.coming along and saying they want to develop houses, but local

:21:16. > :21:19.authorities have the ability to do a plan and look at the needs of the

:21:19. > :21:21.local community, to decide where they want houses and businesses

:21:21. > :21:24.developed. If they've got that, they can ensure that the

:21:24. > :21:28.development takes place in those areas and they can robustly defend

:21:28. > :21:33.themselves from developers who might wish to build elsewhere.

:21:33. > :21:36.Briefly, the planning minister claims the shortage can be

:21:36. > :21:41.addressed with as little at 3% Morland being opened up. Do you

:21:41. > :21:47.agree with that? Honest answer is, I haven't looked at the figures in

:21:47. > :21:52.the same level of details, so I don't know. I resume he's correct.

:21:53. > :22:00.The lowest level of house building since the 1920s. Labour didn't

:22:00. > :22:05.build either? It's not true. Lower levels. Less than 100,000 this year.

:22:05. > :22:08.The gap between the rhetoric and reality -- Would you open up

:22:08. > :22:11.greenbelt? I think Andrew is broadly right. Under the last

:22:12. > :22:15.Labour Government we needed to exploit brownfield and now the

:22:15. > :22:18.Government has shifted the goal posts. Thank you all. We said we

:22:18. > :22:23.would take you back to the Home Secretary. She has been telling MPs

:22:23. > :22:27.what she plans to do about Abu Qatada. There does seem to have

:22:27. > :22:33.been a breakthrough. We'll check if it is. We'll listen to what she

:22:33. > :22:37.told the Commons a few moments ago. I can tell the House that I have

:22:37. > :22:40.signed a comprehensive mutual legal assistance agreement with Jordan.

:22:40. > :22:46.This agreement is fully reciprocal and offers considerable advantages

:22:46. > :22:49.to both countries and reflects our joint commitment to tackling

:22:49. > :22:52.international crime. It covers assistance in obtaining evidence

:22:52. > :22:56.for the investigation and prosecution of crimes in either

:22:56. > :23:01.country and provides a framework for assistance in the restraint and

:23:01. > :23:05.confiscation of the proceeds of crime. The agreement also includes

:23:05. > :23:09.a number of fair-trial guarantees. These will apply to anyone being

:23:09. > :23:12.deported from either country. I believe these guarantees will

:23:12. > :23:17.provide the courts with the assurance that Abu Qatada will not

:23:17. > :23:22.face evidence that might have been obtained by torture in a retrial in

:23:22. > :23:26.Jordan. There we have it. Quite a major announcement. Clearly it's in

:23:26. > :23:29.the pipeline in case the court decision did go wrong. A new deal

:23:29. > :23:39.or treaty being done by Jordan, which will give certain guarantees

:23:39. > :23:42.as to the types of trial, fair trial-a -- fair-trial agreements,

:23:42. > :23:49.but obviously crafted with Abu Qatada in mind. The Home

:23:49. > :23:54.Secretary's view seems to be that this should satisfy the courts. It

:23:54. > :23:56.does mean, Mark Harper, that you will have to go back to the special

:23:56. > :24:01.immigration court and begin the process again? It means the Home

:24:01. > :24:05.Secretary needs to make a further decision about deporting Abu Qatada,

:24:05. > :24:09.which depending on whether she certifies it as having an appeal

:24:09. > :24:13.right, means he does have some legal after news. It's not the

:24:13. > :24:17.beginning, but there's a further legal process, but what she has set

:24:17. > :24:21.out with this treaty that has been agreed, which is far wider ranging

:24:21. > :24:24.than just this case. It's about the close co-operation on dealing with

:24:24. > :24:28.a whole range of international crime-fighting measures, but it

:24:28. > :24:31.should mean there is now no legal obstacle and the one legal obstacle

:24:32. > :24:37.that was remaining, about the concern of using evidence, this

:24:37. > :24:41.will be Jordanian law, so it's a robust measure and it addresses the

:24:41. > :24:47.concern that the court had. It has to be approved by the Jordanian

:24:47. > :24:53.Parliament, but it's not a huge issue. Both parliaments. It will be

:24:53. > :24:54.laid in ours too. She has made clear that he's not on the plane

:24:54. > :25:01.tomorrow, as a result of this. She will now have to issue an order

:25:01. > :25:05.under these new terms for him to be deported. He will doubtless appeal

:25:05. > :25:09.again to the Special Immigration Appeal Court. If he loses there he

:25:09. > :25:14.will then appeal to the Appeal Court and if he loses, he'll appeal

:25:14. > :25:17.to the Supreme Court and if he loses there, he'll appeal to the

:25:17. > :25:21.European Court, correct? Not all of those will necessary have to happen,

:25:21. > :25:27.but there is a legal process. My understanding is, because quite a

:25:27. > :25:29.lot has been argued about before, it's not going to take as long as

:25:29. > :25:33.it has. It would be prudent to say it's not going to be -- It's months

:25:33. > :25:37.at least? I suspect so. The Home Secretary is clear, we were doing

:25:37. > :25:40.the twin-track process on legal and the negotiations. She has a good

:25:40. > :25:43.announcement on that today and we'll continue the case to remove a

:25:43. > :25:47.dangerous man from the United Kingdom. I assume you welcome this?

:25:47. > :25:53.Let's hope it works. Nothing has so far. You are absolutely right.

:25:53. > :25:57.Let's hope it works and this is sufficient to satisfy the courts

:25:57. > :26:03.that he would have a fair and just trial. The question that occurs to

:26:03. > :26:07.me is why are we waiting until today to unveil this? Why wasn't

:26:07. > :26:11.this unveiled prior to the Court of Appeal? It was clear. It was signed

:26:11. > :26:14.in March, but the Jordanians have had elections and it was only

:26:14. > :26:18.yesterday that the new government was approved by the Parliament and

:26:18. > :26:23.obviously when one is dealing with international relationships it is

:26:23. > :26:26.quite proper to observe the formalities. As soon as possible

:26:26. > :26:30.after that the Home Secretary has set out the details. This has to go

:26:30. > :26:35.before Parliament. I assume Labour will vote for it? We want Abu

:26:35. > :26:36.Qatada to be deported so we'll absolutely vote for something that

:26:36. > :26:40.is going to achieve that end. Let's hope it's successful. You said you

:26:40. > :26:46.would come back to it after the Home Secretary's statement. What is

:26:46. > :26:48.the British Government's position on possible, temporary withdrawal

:26:48. > :26:52.from the European Court to get this man out? It's quite clear from what

:26:52. > :26:55.she said that we want to follow the process that is in place. We are

:26:55. > :26:59.going to deal with the constraints we have with the law. We think we

:26:59. > :27:02.have addressed them. We think this will be successful. Are you worried

:27:02. > :27:07.that the goal posts could be changed again? The original

:27:07. > :27:16.objection was that he might be tortured. You have got agreement

:27:16. > :27:16.from Jordan on that. Then a new objection, but he might now be

:27:16. > :27:20.prosecuted facing evidence obtained under torture. You hope you dealt

:27:20. > :27:23.with that. Will there be a hattrick on this? I hope this will be it.

:27:23. > :27:28.It's always a bit difficult when you have lawyers involved, so they

:27:28. > :27:31.don't think of anything else, so we think we have covered this. It's

:27:31. > :27:37.comprehensive and it changes Jordan's law as well. We think we

:27:37. > :27:39.have done the work. It won't be immediately, but the process is

:27:39. > :27:43.under way and we are determined to be successful. Did you imagine

:27:43. > :27:47.temporary withdrawal? I think we want to focus on the steps the Home

:27:47. > :27:50.Secretary has set out today. It's a good plan. I'm glad it's got the

:27:50. > :27:55.support of the Labour Party and I hope we're successful in removing

:27:55. > :27:59.him. Let's look at the details before we sign up. Christmas in

:27:59. > :28:03.Oman for Abu Qatada? I'm not going to put a timeframe around it, but

:28:03. > :28:10.we're determined to get it done and the Home Secretary's focused on

:28:10. > :28:15.being successful. OK. We'll leave it there. The lawyers will be

:28:15. > :28:21.burnishing their fees and briefs. We'll put our viewers out of their

:28:21. > :28:24.misery and the answer to Guess the Year is 1980. Let's pick a winner.

:28:24. > :28:34.Give that to Mark. You press the button and we'll find out the

:28:34. > :28:36.

:28:36. > :28:41.winner. Congratulations, Keith. The winning year was 1980. Well done,