:00:45. > :00:47.to the Daily Politics. The aid budget has been protected from the
:00:48. > :00:53.cuts will stop but are the Ministry of defence and other departments on
:00:53. > :00:56.a mission to raid its coffers by stealth?
:00:56. > :01:06.Most newspapers are against it but if the Prime Minister set to press
:01:06. > :01:10.ahead with his plan for the press? How do the politicians of every
:01:10. > :01:16.colour, including the blue ones, treat the hard-working people of the
:01:16. > :01:21.South? Like a piggybank, that is how.
:01:21. > :01:25.Oh, yes, we will pit South versus North.
:01:25. > :01:32.And as voters go to the polls in England and a bit of Wales, we will
:01:32. > :01:37.tell you what the weather is going to be like.
:01:37. > :01:40.All of that in the next half an hour. With us is the former editor
:01:40. > :01:47.of the Sun newspaper, Kelvin MacKenzie.
:01:47. > :01:51.First, could the aid budget be spent on the Armed Forces? There is talk
:01:51. > :01:56.of peacekeeping missions, whose cost is usually met by the MoD, being
:01:56. > :02:02.paid for by the Department for International development. Its
:02:03. > :02:06.budget has been ring fenced, but like -- unlike other departments,
:02:06. > :02:10.its budget has soared during the coalition. The Prime Minister is
:02:10. > :02:14.looking for ways to ring fence the budget while letting others have a
:02:15. > :02:23.slice of it. David Cameron has ruled out cutting the aid budget, which
:02:23. > :02:31.currently stands at �7.7 million. -- �10.7 billion. The government has
:02:31. > :02:35.pledged to maintain it at that level over national income. Other
:02:35. > :02:41.ministers want to radiate budget to meet bills usually paid for by their
:02:41. > :02:48.departments. Aid organisations are worried that money will be diverted
:02:48. > :02:52.from helping the world 's port. If this was to happen, how much of the
:02:52. > :02:58.almost �11 billion reaches the poor is not clear. We are joined by
:02:58. > :03:01.Justin Forsyth, chief executive of Save the Children. He used to work
:03:01. > :03:05.for Tony Blair and Gordon Brown at number ten. If the British Army is
:03:05. > :03:15.on a peace mission and try to save lives, shouldn't it be in the aid
:03:15. > :03:19.budget question -- aid budget? It can be a small bit of
:03:19. > :03:24.peacekeeping, but the rest of it can't. The prime minister also said
:03:24. > :03:30.yesterday that he would not break those rules. A bit of this is a
:03:30. > :03:35.storm in a teacup. On the one hand, the headlines today are about
:03:35. > :03:42.spending on aid and military. He has said he will not break the rules.
:03:42. > :03:51.you think it is all spin coming out of Downing Street?
:03:51. > :03:56.A little bit of it could. He says security is given -- important for
:03:56. > :04:01.development. Somewhere I have been recently, Somalia, you can train the
:04:01. > :04:06.police force. That is an important part of building security. Some of
:04:06. > :04:09.that can come from the aid budget. But you can't pay for military
:04:09. > :04:13.operations. I don't think the British public would support it. I
:04:13. > :04:17.think they think it is for poverty reduction.
:04:17. > :04:24.But we know the British public do not like the aid budget to be ring
:04:24. > :04:31.fenced. I think the polls are mixed. A lot
:04:31. > :04:36.of people, I think the British public is proud of the aid budget.
:04:36. > :04:43.If you look at the polls, and they're right number of polls on it,
:04:43. > :04:49.-- they're right number of polls on it, some of them are as high as 48%.
:04:49. > :04:55.For any ring fenced budget, that is quite a large group of people. I
:04:55. > :04:59.reckon 15 million people are passionate. They think it is part of
:04:59. > :05:08.our DNA. The story of aid is making a difference. The British public
:05:09. > :05:15.would support... In the past few years, we have had a reduction in
:05:15. > :05:19.child deaths. It is down to about 6.9 million.
:05:19. > :05:24.You are claiming all the credit. There are other factors at work,
:05:24. > :05:31.including rising living standards. It is not all down to aid. One of
:05:31. > :05:37.the ageist reasons there is a reduction is vaccinations. That is a
:05:37. > :05:41.lot to do with aid. Isn't there a case for a wealthy
:05:41. > :05:46.country like Britain, even in tough times, to say, look, there is a
:05:46. > :05:51.chunk of money that we are going to do ring fence for the poorest in the
:05:51. > :05:57.world? It just depends. We have plenty of
:05:57. > :06:01.poor people in our own country. What I object to with Cameron is that he
:06:01. > :06:06.has not stuck to his guns. I admire people who go through rough times
:06:06. > :06:10.and say, you know what, this is what I believe. What he is doing is
:06:10. > :06:18.nodding, unfortunately, towards the UK Independence party on this. It is
:06:18. > :06:28.a political ploy. I don't want him to play politics over something... I
:06:28. > :06:30.
:06:30. > :06:39.don't believe in area, schools or NHS, or the chess budget, being ring
:06:39. > :06:43.fenced. -- the NHS budget. I would prefer him to say, I am
:06:43. > :06:46.sticking to this. I dislike Cameron on that particular issue.
:06:46. > :06:51.Personally, I would not ring fence anything. He has made a point of the
:06:51. > :06:58.fact that we should be proud of it. If he believes it, I would like him
:06:58. > :07:05.to stay there, no matter the political waters.
:07:05. > :07:11.I think that NGOs often do not give the government credit. David Cameron
:07:11. > :07:18.deserves a lot of credit on this issue. They have stuck by their
:07:18. > :07:23.guns. We have got to 0.7%. It is 1p in every pound.
:07:23. > :07:28.It is nice to see him believing in something, to be honest!
:07:28. > :07:33.There are reports that big chunks of money are wasted and it could be
:07:33. > :07:40.better used. You could cut that �11 billion substantially and the
:07:40. > :07:47.world's poor could still be helped. I don't think so. 99% of the money
:07:47. > :07:54.goes on the poor. What about the consultants earning 6-figure
:07:54. > :08:01.salaries? And the �36 million we gave to Sierra Leone that was spent
:08:01. > :08:06.on houses and cars? They have made progress in getting
:08:06. > :08:13.children into school and reducing child deaths. That is because the
:08:13. > :08:20.war ended! The British Army deserve credit. There are a lot of armchair
:08:20. > :08:26.critics of aid. The real story is it has worked. We have a chance, for
:08:26. > :08:33.the first time in history, other generation -- no other generation
:08:33. > :08:43.has been able to say we can eradicate child deaths. Of the �11
:08:43. > :08:43.
:08:43. > :08:49.billion, �700 million is on vaccinations. So it is a small part.
:08:49. > :08:57.That could be ring fenced. We also do education. We fight malnutrition.
:08:57. > :09:01.In the coming weeks, Greg Britain holds the G8. -- Great Britain. We
:09:01. > :09:07.did have a report today saying that 250,000 people died from famine in
:09:07. > :09:17.Somalia. If you are doing that, why do you have two raise money for
:09:17. > :09:20.
:09:20. > :09:28.British kids? This was a political way to politicise Save the Children,
:09:28. > :09:38.to embarrass the coalition. founder, 90 years ago, introduced
:09:38. > :09:41.
:09:41. > :09:46.nurseries. Andrew, I think it is unfair. Save the children is
:09:46. > :09:50.nonpartisan. I have just praised David Cameron and George Osborne. We
:09:50. > :09:54.also have an obligation to fight poverty at home. We have big
:09:54. > :09:57.programmes doing it. In September last year, we raised money for it.
:09:57. > :10:02.The British public want to support it. We would never be party
:10:02. > :10:11.political. Our focus is children themselves.
:10:11. > :10:15.Our guest of the day may look content. Yet, he does, actually. But
:10:15. > :10:19.there is injustice nagging at him. He is deprived of anybody
:10:19. > :10:23.representing him. He believes many others in the South East are in the
:10:23. > :10:33.same position. Here is a party political broadcast on behalf of the
:10:33. > :10:33.
:10:33. > :10:39.holy fictitious British other party. -- completely dishes.
:10:39. > :10:42.Statistics show that we in the South work longer hours than anywhere else
:10:42. > :10:49.in the country, and now commute further and further from our place
:10:49. > :10:52.of work as we attempt not to pay �10 million for our house. And most
:10:52. > :10:59.importantly, London and the South East are virtually propped up the
:10:59. > :11:07.entire British economy. -- London and the South East the Queen propped
:11:07. > :11:16.How do the politicians of every colour, including the blue ones,
:11:16. > :11:26.treat these massively hard-working people? Like a PD bank, that is how.
:11:26. > :11:26.
:11:26. > :11:36.They tax the hell out of us. It is time for a southern party.
:11:36. > :11:38.
:11:38. > :11:48.According to Professor Nicholas at Warwick University, London is not
:11:48. > :11:48.
:11:48. > :11:52.far from producing half of the country's comic output. The average
:11:52. > :12:00.Londoner produces 60% more than a work in the north-east. Sexy 6% more
:12:00. > :12:07.than somebody in Wales, too. -- 66%. Stamp duty is a pernicious,
:12:07. > :12:13.virtually southern only tax. Five London boroughs pay more Stamp duty
:12:13. > :12:17.than the rest of the nation together. There is a basic
:12:17. > :12:23.unfairness in the way Southerners are being treated. We need political
:12:24. > :12:31.pressure. I really southern party can supply it. -- only the southern
:12:31. > :12:39.party. So, is London and the South East
:12:39. > :12:44.having to bail of the UK? In the know -- northern korma -- in the
:12:44. > :12:51.northern corner, Mike Smith, leader of Mike's Carpets. And in the
:12:51. > :13:01.southern corner, Kelvin MacKenzie. He says the average Londoner
:13:01. > :13:06.produces more than the rest of the country. Rubbish and prejudice.You
:13:07. > :13:14.should be on the show more often! have never heard such prejudice
:13:14. > :13:20.against the North of England. We say that the people in London work
:13:20. > :13:26.harder. They don't work harder than the North of England. There is great
:13:26. > :13:33.entrepreneurship in the North of England. Great business is going on
:13:33. > :13:39.in the North. The rum or start up companies per head of the
:13:39. > :13:44.propagation than the south. -- there are more start-up companies.
:13:44. > :13:49.The North of England is home to entrepreneurs like him. I see there
:13:49. > :13:54.are more in the North starting up than in the south. You are all
:13:54. > :13:59.living on your property profits. have nothing against entrepreneurs.
:13:59. > :14:05.I am making a different point. With the effect of house prices down
:14:05. > :14:11.here, the Stamp duty is a southern tax, one of the fracture is the work
:14:11. > :14:18.now have to commute even further. Therefore, the effect of train
:14:18. > :14:21.fares... If you live outside London, it is going to cost you
:14:21. > :14:27.�6,000 simply commuting over the year. Add it to the fact that the
:14:27. > :14:34.average house price for instance... I looked up a company, and the
:14:34. > :14:40.average price in Leeds is �178,000. The average price down here is about
:14:40. > :14:45.�300,000. We get caught in stamp duty, and the North doesn't. I'm not
:14:45. > :14:53.against this as long as we don't have to pay taxes to go and
:14:53. > :14:57.subsidise the great entrepreneurial drive of the North. The South of
:14:57. > :15:07.England contributes �30 billion to the public finances and the North
:15:07. > :15:15.takes �30 billion out. That is not true. In the South, there is more
:15:15. > :15:22.well. I am in favour of Stamp duty. The amount should vary a bit. The
:15:22. > :15:25.property prices are far less than in the North. We have got a multitude
:15:25. > :15:30.of properties that come into Stamp duty. They are paying more in the
:15:30. > :15:33.South because the price is more. The standard of living is different.
:15:33. > :15:40.People can afford to live in Yorkshire on a third of what they
:15:40. > :15:47.can live on down here. Why should teachers, then, get the same amount
:15:47. > :15:52.of money in the North East as if you work in the South? They shouldn't,
:15:52. > :15:59.actually. There should be a differential. There used to be a
:15:59. > :16:04.Londoner living allowance. Not only for teachers but for the police.
:16:04. > :16:13.North drives our manufacturing now. The North East has the highest level
:16:13. > :16:20.in the country. I am seeking political pressure so that the
:16:20. > :16:27.Tories or Labour or whoever decided we can stick these taxes on and they
:16:27. > :16:37.are applying exclusively to the south. What I am saying is, I am
:16:37. > :16:39.
:16:39. > :16:43.Then why pick on the north? I am not picking on the north. Shouldn't
:16:43. > :16:48.London give more to the rest of the country? If it was not for the
:16:48. > :16:52.manufacturers of the north -- it was not the manufacturers of the north
:16:52. > :16:57.that brought us to our knees with the economic crisis, that was
:16:57. > :17:03.London. If you look over the last 60 years, London has supplied the
:17:03. > :17:09.earnings so that other people... If you take place like Wales, Wales
:17:09. > :17:13.spends 44% more on what it does in Wales, ie a subsidy, compared to
:17:13. > :17:17.London, which is a net producer of wealth, and we have to stop this.
:17:17. > :17:24.Why should London and the south-east subsidise entire chunks of the
:17:24. > :17:27.country? Wales is a different area. In Wales, the mining industry was
:17:27. > :17:34.prolific and subsidised the education system. Yorkshire had the
:17:34. > :17:41.same problem, because the mining industry has gone now. But now it is
:17:41. > :17:47.coming back. The pits are open. There are places which may be
:17:47. > :17:51.potentially opening. It will not be what it was before, but it is coming
:17:51. > :17:59.back. It brings a cross to bear on the education system, not just in
:17:59. > :18:02.Yorkshire and Wales, but all over the country. If you are 150 grand a
:18:02. > :18:09.year in the south, you don't pay any more tax than in the north. The
:18:09. > :18:18.taxman does the same for everybody. You are not subsidising us.
:18:18. > :18:25.Actually, the majority of people earning that money are down here.
:18:25. > :18:32.And they provide a standard of living in the north... I said
:18:32. > :18:36.�150,000 a year earners, not �150,000 people.
:18:36. > :18:41.Now, it is six weeks since a deal was done in Ed Miliband's office on
:18:41. > :18:44.newspaper regulation, without the newspapers being present. All three
:18:44. > :18:47.party leaders signed up to it, but their plans for a new regulator
:18:47. > :18:50.backed by Royal Charter has gone down like a lead balloon with
:18:50. > :18:54.national and local newspapers. Let's get the latest from our
:18:54. > :18:58.correspondent. The government came up with this royal charter and
:18:59. > :19:05.parliament agreed with it, but no newspaper has yet agreed to sign
:19:05. > :19:10.on. So what will the government do? People keep saying this is complex.
:19:10. > :19:15.In fact, it is simple. On 15th May, there will be a meeting of the privy
:19:15. > :19:19.Council, the Queen and four of her ministers, standing up. That is how
:19:19. > :19:24.she likes this business done. They will approve a Royal Charter. At the
:19:24. > :19:28.moment, it looks like that will be the cross-party Charter agreed in
:19:28. > :19:34.that office meeting. Many of the papers don't like that one bit. So
:19:34. > :19:39.the question is, will David Cameron decide to concede to the papers'
:19:39. > :19:43.demands and either put up the newspapers' version or some
:19:43. > :19:47.concessional combination? And intriguing bit of spin reaches me
:19:47. > :19:54.from a well-placed Tory source today. I am told the Conservatives
:19:54. > :19:57.are amenable to the newspapers' position, but this has to have
:19:57. > :20:01.cross-party support. So the papers need to be targeting Labour and the
:20:01. > :20:06.Liberal Democrats for concessions. Hard to know what to make of that,
:20:06. > :20:09.but lots of Conservatives will tell you it is Labour and the Lib Dems
:20:09. > :20:18.who are the ones the papers should go after when it comes to a general
:20:18. > :20:23.election period. We are joined by Steven Barnett of the campaign group
:20:23. > :20:31.Hacked Off. Kelvin Mackenzie, is it your view that if Mr Cameron
:20:31. > :20:35.proceeds with this royal charter, the newspapers will not sign up?
:20:35. > :20:42.is an interesting question. My sense is that they will not, because there
:20:42. > :20:47.is virtually nothing in it for them. There is the threat of
:20:47. > :20:53.increased fines if they don't, and that may end up in various strands
:20:54. > :21:01.bog courts to be fought through -- Strasberg courts. If I were a
:21:01. > :21:06.newspaper proprietor, forget what the editors think, I would take my
:21:06. > :21:10.chances. So there is a danger that after all this debate and the
:21:10. > :21:14.regulation that has come forward, we will have a regular tree system to
:21:14. > :21:18.which not even the Guardian or Independent will sign up? Of course
:21:18. > :21:23.there is a danger, because the whole point is that it is a voluntary
:21:23. > :21:27.system. The situation is more nuanced than that. I am sure Kelvin
:21:27. > :21:33.is right and some papers will say they don't want to play this game.
:21:33. > :21:37.Others will look at the detail after May 15. The Guardian, the
:21:37. > :21:43.Independent, the FT, none of them have come out in support of the
:21:43. > :21:52.press charter. More importantly, I would advise everyone to look at
:21:52. > :21:56.their local and regional press. If you look at what could be in it,
:21:56. > :22:00.picking up Kelvin's point, for the local and regional press, if I was
:22:00. > :22:04.the editor of a local newspaper and I was thinking, wait a minute, there
:22:04. > :22:07.is this leader of the council and this local entrepreneur, I have got
:22:07. > :22:14.stuff on them in the public interest that I want to publish, but they
:22:14. > :22:19.have been threatening me and I am scared of lawsuits, and I am worried
:22:19. > :22:23.about being bullied, the point of this system is that it protects you
:22:23. > :22:27.from those sorts of people. If I was a regional local editor, I would
:22:27. > :22:32.think this could work for me. far, none of them have said that
:22:32. > :22:37.publicly. They seem to be more against it than the national papers.
:22:37. > :22:44.What is your response to that? Leveson, which has turned out to be
:22:44. > :22:48.a disaster, as you will see from various stories beginning to trickle
:22:48. > :22:53.out already with the shadow of Leveson over people, I think local
:22:53. > :22:58.papers will run a mile from doing anything under any system right now.
:22:58. > :23:06.Because of the fear of penalties? The fear of penalties, the fear of
:23:06. > :23:10.threats of this, that and the other. So you end up this morning where a
:23:10. > :23:15.police authority will not name an ex-police officer who is charged
:23:15. > :23:22.with �117,000 worth of stealing because they say we are "following
:23:22. > :23:26.Leveson" . You are getting all kinds of people in authority now saying,
:23:26. > :23:31.we will not reveal this or that. It is hard enough to find out what is
:23:31. > :23:36.going on without people than threatening you about disclosure.
:23:36. > :23:40.are in danger of confusing two different things. One is the system
:23:40. > :23:45.of voluntary self-regulation which is on the table now, which I and
:23:45. > :23:48.others believe that a local press will look at and say, that will help
:23:48. > :23:52.us do decent investigative journalism. There is a different
:23:53. > :23:57.point, which is, are there things being said by certain people like
:23:57. > :24:00.police forces, who are perhaps using Leveson as an umbrella? Maybe, but
:24:00. > :24:10.that is a different issue from whether this particular system,
:24:10. > :24:14.which I think will be signed off on 15th May, will work or not. I hope
:24:14. > :24:22.it isn't. I think Cameron made a shocking error by announcing Leveson
:24:23. > :24:31.in advance of the trials taking place. I think it would have been a
:24:31. > :24:35.stronger suit... But we are where we are. OK, on that basis, I hope the
:24:35. > :24:40.newspapers stick together will stop but they haven't got much of a
:24:40. > :24:43.backbone. They talk about free speech, and as soon as a puff of
:24:43. > :24:49.wind comes their way, there seems to be a lot of ways of accommodating
:24:49. > :24:52.people. If they don't sign up, the government is in danger of calling a
:24:52. > :24:58.party to which no one will come. it turns out you are wrong about
:24:58. > :25:04.regional papers, the jury is out on that matter, if they decide that
:25:04. > :25:11.exemplary damage will go all the way to Strasberg as it could be an
:25:11. > :25:17.offence to human rights... That is not going to happen. Forget the
:25:17. > :25:22.scaremongering. I have seen the legal advice on both sides, and the
:25:22. > :25:28.legal advice for the press comes from those providing advice at
:25:28. > :25:33.Leveson. Put that to one side. Yes, you are right. It may be that no one
:25:33. > :25:36.comes to this party. If that happens in a years time, the recognition
:25:36. > :25:43.panel will bring forward a report saying that nothing has happened.
:25:43. > :25:48.That is the point of a voluntary system. But you will have failed. It
:25:48. > :25:52.is not us. This has become your life's work. The people who will
:25:52. > :25:58.have failed will be the people who have suffered from press abuse,
:25:58. > :26:05.because there will not be a system to stop it happening again.
:26:05. > :26:08.As you may have heard, there are a few elections taking play today. 35
:26:08. > :26:13.local authorities are holding them -27 in the county can, seven unitary
:26:13. > :26:19.authorities as well as Anglesey in Wales. 2300 seats are up for grabs.
:26:19. > :26:21.There are also mayoral elections in Doncaster and north Tyneside. And
:26:21. > :26:26.there is a by-election in South Shields after the former Foreign
:26:26. > :26:30.Secretary, David Miliband, resigned. Before you venture out to the
:26:30. > :26:38.polling station, it is important that we give you a weather forecast.
:26:38. > :26:43.You will need your sun hat, if you can find it, as you have had a long
:26:43. > :26:49.time without using it. We are joined now by the BBC's Huw Edwards, who
:26:49. > :26:56.will soon be taking possession of this enormous desk. When do we start
:26:56. > :27:01.getting the first results? Normally, you know better than
:27:01. > :27:06.anyone, on election night, we are waiting hours for results. But when
:27:06. > :27:09.we come on air tomorrow morning at 8.30 on the BBC News Channel, we
:27:09. > :27:15.will be able to talk about the South Shields Parliament drew by-election,
:27:15. > :27:20.which will have been done overnight. And one of the mayoral elections and
:27:20. > :27:26.six local authorities. We should have some strong signals. And for
:27:26. > :27:29.the rest of the day, you carry on. A lot of accounts are being done
:27:29. > :27:37.during day two, so you will get the results in the morning and
:27:38. > :27:42.afternoon? Six have done there's overnight. Then there will be more
:27:42. > :27:46.during the day. Some of those will be very interesting. We will be on
:27:46. > :27:50.BBC Two from midday and then back on at two o'clock and then five. Most
:27:50. > :27:56.of the day will be on the BBC News Channel, but three hours on BBC Two
:27:56. > :28:01.during the afternoon. So a long day, but an important day. Parties are
:28:01. > :28:05.very nervous about this election. There are a lot of unknowns.
:28:05. > :28:15.Politicians like to dismiss local elections as local affairs, and in
:28:15. > :28:19.
:28:19. > :28:21.many areas, they are. But there are bigger things here and there are
:28:21. > :28:25.high stakes for the parties and their leaders.
:28:25. > :28:29.Don't miss Hugh Edwards on the BBC News Channel at 8:30am and then on
:28:29. > :28:33.BBC Two from 12, two and five. But is it for today. I am back tonight
:28:34. > :28:38.with a special This Week on BBC One from as special secret location,
:28:38. > :28:43.with an audience. We have never had an audience. We will have Michael
:28:43. > :28:46.Portillo, Alan Johnson and Nigel Farage and Miranda Green. I will be
:28:47. > :28:50.back on Sunday with the Sunday Politics, when we will be chewing