:00:46. > :00:50.Daily Politics. Westminster is gearing up for the big event, the
:00:50. > :00:52.Queen's Speech tomorrow. We will have the lowdown on what the
:00:52. > :00:56.government is planning for the year ahead, and what it is not.
:00:56. > :01:00.The speech won't include a commitment to any EU referendum,
:01:00. > :01:03.despite today's call for one from former Chancellor Nigel Lawson. We
:01:03. > :01:07.will discuss the pressure on camera and over Europe.
:01:07. > :01:11.The government is pressing ahead with plans to sell off the Royal
:01:11. > :01:15.mail, or at least part of it. We will speak to the Business
:01:15. > :01:22.Secretary, Vince Cable. We will hear from one MP kicking up a stink about
:01:22. > :01:26.some cheese. That is all coming up in the next
:01:26. > :01:31.hour. With us for the duration, former Labour Home Secretary Alan
:01:31. > :01:38.Johnson. It is so good to see you in daylight! I was beginning to wonder
:01:38. > :01:42.if you were allowed out during the day.
:01:43. > :01:48.Let's start with the news over the weekend of the arrest of the Deputy
:01:48. > :01:51.Speaker of Parliament Nigel Evans. He is accused by two men of rape and
:01:51. > :01:58.sexual assault, charges leave a and Lee denies. Let's get the latest
:01:58. > :02:02.from Carole Walker. -- charges he is a are mentally denies. Nigel Evans
:02:02. > :02:09.will be holding a press briefing in the next couple of hours. We believe
:02:09. > :02:14.he will simply be -- simply be outside the Houses of Parliament
:02:14. > :02:18.that he is getting on with his job as an MP, attending meetings as
:02:18. > :02:22.Deputy Speaker even though we know he will not be sitting in the chair
:02:22. > :02:26.in the Commons for the Jura Asian of the debate on the Queen's Speech,
:02:26. > :02:30.which will go on until the middle of next week -- for the Jura Asian of
:02:30. > :02:34.the debate. Here is not hiding away from the allegations, which he has
:02:34. > :02:40.described as completely false. He has a lot of support from fellow
:02:40. > :02:44.MPs, but I understand that behind-the-scenes there is concern
:02:44. > :02:49.that the office of Speaker and Deputy Speaker should not be in
:02:49. > :02:53.anyway caught up with controversy. Nigel Evans was elected by fellow
:02:53. > :02:58.MPs, it is up to the House of Commons what happens to him in the
:02:58. > :03:04.future. Because he is one of the first Deputy Speakers elected in
:03:04. > :03:08.this way, the rules and mechanisms are not entirely clear about if it
:03:08. > :03:13.was considered best for him to step aside. There will be meetings to try
:03:13. > :03:18.to clarify that, but for the time being the hope is that Nigel Evans
:03:18. > :03:21.will not sit in the chair for the next week or so. After that there
:03:21. > :03:31.are only if you parliamentary days before recess, so perhaps the matter
:03:31. > :03:37.
:03:38. > :03:43.can be left for a fewer weeks until it is
:03:43. > :03:47.The principle is interesting. Should those accused of this sort of sexual
:03:47. > :03:51.offence, arrested but not charged, and it looks like he won't be,
:03:51. > :03:57.should they have anonymity at least until they have been charged?
:03:57. > :04:03.don't think so. This was a coalition policy, no one knows where it
:04:03. > :04:09.emerged from, it was not in any manifesto. But that was in the
:04:09. > :04:13.coalition agreement. It took about two months for them to do an
:04:13. > :04:18.inelegant U-turn. They are not going to do it now. There was a real body
:04:18. > :04:25.of opinion that said, why should rape be the only crime, not murder,
:04:25. > :04:30.not child abuse, not a fraud, where the defendant has anonymity? And the
:04:30. > :04:37.other body of evidence suggests that many women, seeing the defendant,
:04:37. > :04:47.most people guilty of rape have raped other women, and that was a
:04:47. > :04:48.
:04:48. > :04:51.big factor in many high-profile rape cases, the fact that other women
:04:51. > :04:58.came forward, such as that taxi driver in London, other people came
:04:58. > :05:03.forward. The Associaton of Chief Police Officers, they say they want
:05:03. > :05:11.to end, quote, the bizarre power game where journalists try to come
:05:11. > :05:14.out with the names of people. They talk about a blanket ban on names
:05:14. > :05:19.being released. When Quentin Blunt, then the minister, withdrew
:05:19. > :05:23.anonymity for rape defendant, he did so on the basis that they would look
:05:23. > :05:28.at trying to find a way that these names would not come out in the
:05:28. > :05:32.media and through the police. There was another way of tackling this.
:05:32. > :05:36.Nothing much has happened, this might spark it off. For the
:05:36. > :05:43.government to decide there is a problem because an MP happens to be
:05:43. > :05:49.the person alleged to have committed the offence, as opposed to all the
:05:49. > :05:52.others, it looks like, we don't mind anyone else, but when it is an MP...
:05:52. > :05:59.Is it not a wee bit suspicious that the press were tipped off in time to
:05:59. > :06:03.get to Pendleton, not a major press hope, photographs of the police
:06:03. > :06:07.going through his car, they knew exactly where the car was parked and
:06:07. > :06:13.all the rest. You have a very suspicious mind, it had not even
:06:13. > :06:21.crossed my mind. Who knows? Knack of the yardstick datapath. Could well
:06:21. > :06:25.have been. You and your suspicious mind. Put it to good use, it is time
:06:26. > :06:30.for our quiz. Writing in The Times today, former Conservative
:06:30. > :06:33.Chancellor Nigel Lawson says it is time for Britain to quit the
:06:33. > :06:38.European Union, but which former Prime Minister does he think David
:06:38. > :06:43.Cameron is following in the footsteps of? Is it Harold Wilson,
:06:43. > :06:51.John Major, Margaret Thatcher or Gordon Brown? At the end of the
:06:51. > :06:55.show, we'll have the correct answer. If I know, Alan knows! That is for
:06:55. > :06:59.sure! Last week the Government signalled its intention to sell off
:06:59. > :07:01.some more of the state's family silver. At least that is what Harold
:07:01. > :07:05.Macmillan called it. Downing Street's famous 'nudge unit' was
:07:05. > :07:08.mentioned - it's been thinking up clever schemes to nudge people to do
:07:08. > :07:11.things like pay their council tax bills on time. And ministers talked
:07:11. > :07:15.of dozens of other areas of government which could be sold into
:07:15. > :07:17.the private sector. But the real biggie was the Royal Mail. Last
:07:17. > :07:20.Monday the Business Minister Michael Fallon announced he was about to
:07:20. > :07:24.start hiring banks to handle the sale of the national postal service,
:07:25. > :07:27.a move made possible by the Postal Services Act passed two years ago.
:07:28. > :07:30.The government's preferred option is to float the company on the stock
:07:31. > :07:34.market, but it's not clear what percentage of the business will be
:07:34. > :07:39.sold initially. Another option on the cards could be selling a stake
:07:39. > :07:43.to a private buyer. The Royal Mail is estimated to be worth between �2
:07:43. > :07:47.and �3 billion pounds. If the sale goes ahead, Michael Fallon has
:07:47. > :07:50.confirmed that 10% of shares would be reserved for Royal Mail staff -
:07:50. > :07:54.although it's not clear whether they would get a discount. Trade unions
:07:54. > :07:59.are opposed to the move. The General Secretary of the TUC, Frances
:07:59. > :08:03.O'Grady, says that the Government wants to wreck the Royal Mail. And
:08:03. > :08:13.campaigners have warned that if the service is sold off, the price of a
:08:13. > :08:14.
:08:14. > :08:18.a first class stamp could rocket from 60p to �1.
:08:18. > :08:25.The Business Secretary Vince Cable is with us. You have kept away from
:08:25. > :08:28.us, you don't call or write! Happy to come on the programme! Happy to
:08:28. > :08:31.have you. I never thought you would be more Thatcher than Thatcher,
:08:31. > :08:40.Thatcher said she was not prepared to sell off the Royal Mail eco-she
:08:40. > :08:46.was, quote, not prepared to have the Queens head privatised. -- the
:08:46. > :08:51.Queen's head. Bee under Labour, there was a recognition that there
:08:51. > :09:01.was a problem with Royal Mail. There needed to be a lot of investment. A
:09:01. > :09:01.
:09:01. > :09:09.report was produced. One element was bringing in private capital, that is
:09:09. > :09:14.what they are doing. There is nothing new or surprising. Mr Farage
:09:14. > :09:17.has said so, but you are his boss, that the preferred route for the
:09:17. > :09:26.government is an initial public offering, that a chunk of Royal Mail
:09:26. > :09:34.stock would be sold? Correct.Any idea what percentage? We are aiming
:09:34. > :09:38.to sell the majority, the simple reason is that Royal Mail will need
:09:38. > :09:43.to raise capital and modernise, in order to do that it needs to get
:09:43. > :09:49.itself off the public accounts. At the moment it competes with schools
:09:49. > :09:54.and hospitals in capital spending. So Royal Mail spending shows up in
:09:54. > :10:02.public debts? The only way around that is to have some private
:10:02. > :10:06.ownership. Your manifesto says you can only sell off 49 %. We had a
:10:06. > :10:14.debate before the last election. My colleagues wanted a more cautious
:10:14. > :10:22.approach. You wanted more than 49 %? We did at the time -- I did at the
:10:22. > :10:27.time. You will sell off more than 50 %, but on top of that ten % will go
:10:28. > :10:35.to the workers, but how? Will they have to buy shares? Will they be
:10:35. > :10:40.donating shares? We still have to bottom this out. We have to speak to
:10:40. > :10:44.the communication workers union. We are determined that there should be
:10:45. > :10:54.a workers stake in the new Royal Mail. It will be good for them and
:10:55. > :10:56.
:10:56. > :11:02.the company. But they could shell the stairs. -- sell the shares off.
:11:02. > :11:11.Let's say you sell 51 %, then another ten % goes to the
:11:11. > :11:18.workforce, we are up to 61 %, does the remaining 31 -- 39 % stay with
:11:18. > :11:28.the government for a period? The aim is to sell off as much private
:11:28. > :11:32.capital as we need to. It is open, we want to keep our options open
:11:32. > :11:39.with potential buyers and the mechanics of the sale. Former
:11:39. > :11:48.postman Alan Johnson, what do you make of this? I'm a Thatcherite on
:11:48. > :11:56.Royal Mail privatisation. 20 years ago, I think it was the right thing
:11:56. > :12:00.to oppose, and I think it is now. Vince says quite rightly that the
:12:00. > :12:02.problem is how you borrow to get capital into the Royal Mail, and it
:12:02. > :12:06.appears on the government's balance sheet, but the profits of Royal Mail
:12:06. > :12:10.also help to build schools and hospitals. What has happened where
:12:10. > :12:14.there is a broad consensus, the pension fund moved on to government
:12:14. > :12:18.bills rather than weighing Darren Royal Mail, the change in the
:12:18. > :12:23.regulator has transformed Royal Mail, and a great CEO. Their
:12:23. > :12:27.operation treble -- profits have trebled in just a few years. There
:12:27. > :12:31.is a danger that they are selling off a very important part of the
:12:31. > :12:34.infrastructure and, I would even say, the social fabric of this
:12:34. > :12:39.country at a time where it is becoming more profitable. Secondly,
:12:39. > :12:48.there is the issue about breaking apart Royal Mail from the post
:12:48. > :12:56.office. There is already some separation, but there is a synergy.
:12:56. > :13:05.Let Vince Cable response. It is becoming a much better operation.
:13:05. > :13:11.The challenge is enormous. They are losing large chunks of their mail
:13:11. > :13:16.business, they are picking it up on the parcel side, but they will have
:13:16. > :13:21.to invest very heavily. I suspect one of the reasons why performance
:13:21. > :13:31.has improved is they know they have to get ready for the market
:13:31. > :13:34.
:13:34. > :13:37.flotation. Are we so bereft of any innovation or imagination in this
:13:37. > :13:40.country that we can't find a way to get some capital into a very, very
:13:40. > :13:44.much appreciated public sector resorts? The tradition is that you
:13:44. > :13:49.do it off the balance sheet, which always makes me suspicious, as you
:13:49. > :13:57.do with network rail? There was a lot of creativity under your former
:13:57. > :14:03.Prime Minister excavation mark I helped with some of that creativity!
:14:03. > :14:07.The hallmark of the British mail system, which almost every other
:14:07. > :14:14.country copied, was that there was a single price for sending a letter
:14:14. > :14:21.anywhere, not a parcel but a letter. That is enshrined in legislation for
:14:21. > :14:26.about eight years? What would happen after that? It is for Parliament to
:14:26. > :14:29.decide. Parliament has to decide if that has changed. One of the key
:14:29. > :14:35.objectives of privatisation is to underpin the universal service
:14:35. > :14:41.obligation, which is a guaranteed of a uniform price. If the Royal Mail
:14:41. > :14:45.is not viable, we can't uphold universal service obligations.
:14:46. > :14:55.party is criticising, quote, the timing of privatisation, but not the
:14:56. > :14:56.
:14:56. > :15:01.principal. We voted against this. Royal Mail is improving all the
:15:01. > :15:07.time. George Osborne is desperate to do something about the borrowing
:15:07. > :15:10.statistics, �245 billion more than planned, he has all the harm -- it
:15:10. > :15:16.has all the hallmarks of a fire sale. They haven't thought through
:15:16. > :15:22.whole elements of which. In which case, this has been in public
:15:22. > :15:27.ownership for around 370 years, what is the rush? If it was a fire sale,
:15:27. > :15:35.why have we taken two years? Because you needed to get the pension fund
:15:35. > :15:42.of the books. The key issue is, what would you guys do? Chuka Umunna made
:15:42. > :15:47.it very clear that the debate is now closed. You will not re-nationalise
:15:47. > :15:51.it, we all know that. We are at the end of that particular story.
:15:51. > :15:56.the Queen's Speech tomorrow, on immigration, the proposals are to
:15:56. > :16:06.toughen up a lot of things on welfare as immigrants get paid or do
:16:06. > :16:11.
:16:11. > :16:18.not get paid. You happy to go along We have overseas students come to
:16:18. > :16:23.go Britain and I would encourage that.
:16:23. > :16:30.We picked up, we didn't need these elections to tell us, there is a
:16:30. > :16:34.lot of public anxiety and much of it centres not on the gree gree
:16:34. > :16:38.free movement of -- the free movement of people per per se, but
:16:38. > :16:44.it is the sense that people come from overseas and get benefits they
:16:44. > :16:47.are not entitled to. Your party fought the election an
:16:47. > :16:54.an amnesty. Wasn't that a principled position? Wasn't it the
:16:54. > :16:57.right position to start again and have a line drawn under it? Nick
:16:57. > :16:59.Clegg made it clear that he he thought that was a mistake and we
:16:59. > :17:06.shouldn't have done that. I'm asking you? We have agreed that
:17:06. > :17:12.we are we are not going down that road again. The amnesty has been
:17:12. > :17:16.abandoned? Well, it had merits and demerits. People didn't like it.It
:17:16. > :17:20.created a lot of public anxiety P. What do you make of Nigel Lawson
:17:20. > :17:24.saying he will vote against. He doesn't think there will be much
:17:24. > :17:29.repatriation and he will vote to get out? Well, he is a clever guy,
:17:29. > :17:34.but he is often wrong on the issues like climate change and this. The
:17:34. > :17:37.problem he has and is explaining what the alternative model. I mean
:17:37. > :17:43.if you decide to leave the European Union, what are you going to
:17:43. > :17:46.negotiate with? He is a free trader I think so you would need to have
:17:46. > :17:49.agreement on the continuation of the single market, free trade
:17:49. > :17:53.arrangements. I am not sure how he would secure that.
:17:53. > :17:56.And where are you on the the idea that it is popular on parts of the
:17:56. > :18:00.Tory backbenches for a mandate referendum whereby a referendum
:18:00. > :18:04.would take place mandating the Government to go and repatriate
:18:04. > :18:07.powers from Brussels? Well, I don't see the need for that. Parliament
:18:07. > :18:12.has already set out the ground rules for a referendum. We have
:18:12. > :18:15.passed that legislation. But if the terms of our treaty position
:18:15. > :18:19.changes, we we should have a referendum. Parliament has decide
:18:19. > :18:22.that had. We don't need to go back on that.
:18:22. > :18:28.The Lib Dems would not support a Conservative part of the coalition
:18:28. > :18:33.trying to introduce mandate legislation?
:18:33. > :18:39.On the business of RBS if the Treasury is going to sell RBS at a
:18:39. > :18:45.loss and it looks as if that is what they are going to do. Wouldn't
:18:45. > :18:48.it be better to nationalise RBS? we had gone back fours years ago,
:18:48. > :18:53.that would be the thing to do. Nationalise it now would require
:18:53. > :18:58.the acquisition of the remaining shares... Not that much?It is a
:18:58. > :19:01.somebody standings sum of money. My main concern about RBS is the
:19:01. > :19:09.taxpayer get value money for money when it is sold.
:19:09. > :19:13.Well, they won't if it is sold at a loss. It will be sold eventually.
:19:13. > :19:18.There is a big issue about why the big banks including the State banks
:19:18. > :19:23.are not supporting small business and that's a real problem.
:19:23. > :19:27.Are you part of the three out of four who do not regard Ed Miliband
:19:27. > :19:36.as a credible Prime Minister or are you part of the one out of four who
:19:36. > :19:38.does regard him? He has not established that Labour are a
:19:38. > :19:42.credible alternative Government, but that's the challenge to him.
:19:42. > :19:46.His problem is not around personality, but he was part of a
:19:46. > :19:52.Government that oversaw the massive financial crisis and the
:19:52. > :19:57.consequences that flowed from that. So he a credible Prime Minister?
:19:57. > :20:03.Not yet and the challenge is for him to prove he is.
:20:03. > :20:07.Will you come back? I am happy to come back, Andrew. I used to enjoy
:20:08. > :20:12.my appearances on your programme. I will have the diary outside as
:20:12. > :20:18.you are leaving! Now as you may or may not know, we're not on air
:20:18. > :20:23.tomorrow. We are not? That means we don't get paid!
:20:23. > :20:27.The reason? It's the Queen's Speech. The moment when Her Majesty appears
:20:27. > :20:29.in Parliament to read out a list of the Government's plans for the next
:20:29. > :20:36.parliamentary session. Here's our insider's guide to the big event
:20:36. > :20:40.with Quentin Letts of the Daily Q is for Queen's Speech delivered
:20:40. > :20:44.at the State Opening of Parliament. It is the biggest day in the
:20:44. > :20:48.Parliamentary day. All the Queen's horses and the Queen's men and this
:20:48. > :20:51.is where she arrives. The Queen doesn't write the speech herself,
:20:51. > :20:55.mind you. It is written for her by the Cabinet and that is because it
:20:55. > :20:59.sets out the Government's legislative programme for the
:20:59. > :21:02.coming year. The Queen arrives at Parliament,
:21:02. > :21:06.comes up the stairs and into this little room. The Robing Room. This
:21:06. > :21:11.is where she gets ready and she puts on the imperial state state
:21:11. > :21:14.crown. The opening ceremony as we have it today dates back to 1852
:21:14. > :21:18.when this Palace of Westminster was built, but some parts of the
:21:19. > :21:25.ceremony go back further to times when the Crown and Parliament were
:21:25. > :21:29.on less than friendly terms! Before the Queen travels to
:21:29. > :21:32.Parliament, certain precautions are taken. A member of the Government
:21:33. > :21:40.is held hostage at at Buckingham Palace and is kept there until the
:21:40. > :21:47.monarch returns and the yeoman of the guard searches the zel the
:21:47. > :21:51.cellars of the House of the Parliament for any gun powder. She
:21:51. > :21:56.progresses through the chamber. On the day t it is crammed with VIPs
:21:56. > :22:01.and other guests. Black Rod is sent to to summon MPs to listen to the
:22:01. > :22:05.Queen's Speech.' arrives there -- he arrives there and the door is
:22:06. > :22:12.slammed in his face. MPs don't open it until he struck on the door with
:22:12. > :22:16.his staff of office. Black Rod leads MPs back towards
:22:16. > :22:20.the House of Lords. They amble slowly not wish to go appear too
:22:20. > :22:29.concerned and they listen to the Queen's Speech. It is standing room
:22:29. > :22:32.only. My lords, and members of the House
:22:32. > :22:39.of Commons, my Government's legislative programme will be based
:22:39. > :22:41.upon the principles of freedom, fairness and responsibility.
:22:41. > :22:48.Government's programme as presented in the Queen's Speech is debated
:22:49. > :22:58.for four or five days or for four or five years! Do you think they
:22:59. > :23:01.
:23:01. > :23:04.rent it out for parties? Quentin Letts. Joining us from
:23:04. > :23:09.College Green are Kevin Maguire of the Daily Mirror and Emily Ashton
:23:09. > :23:12.from the Sun. Well, well, we have had local elections, what impact do
:23:12. > :23:22.you think the rise of UKIP in the local elections is going to have?
:23:22. > :23:24.
:23:24. > :23:28.It has to be written on on velum! But, we do know that Nigel Farage
:23:28. > :23:34.is on the Queen's shoulder when she reads it out because we can say the
:23:34. > :23:41.way the Government is spinning and Nigel Lawson will be another guest
:23:41. > :23:44.who is there tomorrow, but we know that there are big issues that the
:23:44. > :23:47.Queen won't address, but they will be dominating the coalition from
:23:47. > :23:52.now on. Do you think we will see anything
:23:52. > :23:55.change substantively in terms of how the Tory-led Government as
:23:55. > :23:59.everyone likes to call it in terms of what they will do? I mean these
:23:59. > :24:03.things have been onted agenda for a while, but they have upped the
:24:03. > :24:07.rhetoric. The message tomorrow will be we are on the side of people who
:24:08. > :24:11.want to work hard and get on. It isn't really anything particularly
:24:11. > :24:15.new. Or controversial? Exactly. Yeah,
:24:15. > :24:20.there will be things like, you know, a crackdown on benefits fraud,
:24:20. > :24:30.foreigners who want to use the NHS, restricting access to the NHS and
:24:30. > :24:31.
:24:31. > :24:35.housing and beating out -- booting out out foreign criminals easily.
:24:35. > :24:41.UKIP who managed to get so many former Tory voters on their side,
:24:41. > :24:46.they want to get them back. Kevin Maguire, if that's Nigel
:24:46. > :24:53.Farage circling above your head... It is nearly opening time, Jo.
:24:53. > :24:57.Kevin Maguire! He has a habit of falling out of
:24:57. > :25:04.planes! Some of the things that were
:25:04. > :25:09.dropped like the pledge for 0.7% of GDP on international aid. That's
:25:09. > :25:14.not going to be there. How symbolic is that? And plain packaging of
:25:14. > :25:21.cigarettes. The fact if you look at the Cameroon issues, minimum
:25:21. > :25:23.pricing of alcohol. They have been put on the back burner or dropped
:25:24. > :25:28.permanently. David Cameron is moving to the right and he will be
:25:28. > :25:32.answering the voice of Nigel Farage and the old days of the huskies and
:25:32. > :25:36.tilting at windmills are long gone and that's the significance and it
:25:36. > :25:39.will lead up to seven weeks time when George Osborne gives his next
:25:39. > :25:42.three year spending plans which will be a bigger political event
:25:42. > :25:45.than the Queen's Speech tomorrow. We will see the direction of the
:25:45. > :25:49.Government, but we will see them moving to the right and getting
:25:50. > :25:54.harsher, that's what they feel voters want. Whether it is the
:25:54. > :25:57.right right strategy, I think it is the wrong strategy, but I think
:25:57. > :26:03.that's where we will see the Government go.
:26:03. > :26:05.Emily, Lord Lawson's intervention is hardly a vote of confidence in
:26:05. > :26:12.David Cameron's campaign to go for a reformed relationship with the
:26:12. > :26:17.EU? Well, it is not ideal, is it? I don't know how central Lord Lawson
:26:17. > :26:22.is to UK politics now, but the fact that he is saying a renegotiation
:26:22. > :26:26.with Europe would fail is not quite what David Cameron wants to hear.
:26:26. > :26:31.And it will probably mean his right-wing Tory MPs feel the same
:26:31. > :26:35.that a renegotiation is word, what does it mean? What does the changes
:26:35. > :26:38.mean for Europe? It will ring a few bells and get people on side with
:26:38. > :26:42.Lord Lawson. On Europe, what about the the
:26:42. > :26:47.Liberal Democrats? We have had Vince Cable on talking to him about
:26:47. > :26:52.mandate referendums which have been suggested by Tory backbenchers, the
:26:52. > :26:56.Liberal Democrats won support it. - - won't support it. What's the mood
:26:56. > :26:59.amongst them? The Labour attacks on the Liberal Democrats, they are
:26:59. > :27:02.accomplices of David Cameron sting them and they like to to show they
:27:02. > :27:08.have a more positive agenda. Sometimes they can get measures
:27:08. > :27:15.they want. On Europe, I think, they are a party that won't move. They
:27:15. > :27:20.promise add add add in/out referendum. They will hold their
:27:20. > :27:26.ground. It is a fascinating period in politics. Europe's torn the Tory
:27:26. > :27:29.Party apart in the past, maybe it will do it again. Labour's is solid.
:27:29. > :27:32.The anti-European wing is now small and the Liberal Democrats are just
:27:32. > :27:35.sitting in there. I don't think the Liberal Democrats promising a
:27:35. > :27:40.referendum would would win them votes at next election. They are
:27:40. > :27:43.going to go down far and the hole campaign will be to defend the
:27:43. > :27:48.seats they already have. Thank you. Enjoy the Queen's Speech.
:27:48. > :27:56.Thank you. David Cameron, wasn't tilting at
:27:56. > :28:00.windmills, he will building them. So was his father-in-law. Solar
:28:00. > :28:04.panels. He wanted to put them in his wee
:28:04. > :28:07.back garden of 20,000 acres. When is a blue cheese that tastes
:28:07. > :28:10.like Stilton, smells like Stilton and is made in the village of
:28:10. > :28:13.Stilton not a stilton? Well, the answer is when it's manufacturers
:28:13. > :28:23.have no right to call it so under legal protection of products and
:28:23. > :28:23.
:28:23. > :28:26.traditional foods that are tightly controlled. But what if new
:28:26. > :28:28.research suggests the so called "source of origin" is more
:28:28. > :28:31.complicated than those rules allow? I though you have been thinking
:28:31. > :28:35.about this night and day for weeks. So Giles has been hunting for
:28:35. > :28:37.scraps to find an answer. It is time for a bit of honesty, being a
:28:37. > :28:39.political reporter in and around Westminster is a tough job. There
:28:39. > :28:43.is a lot of pressures and the working conditions aren't great.
:28:43. > :28:46.You never know when the next meal is coming from and have to put up
:28:46. > :28:51.with rough things like this. There is a reason why I'm out here with
:28:51. > :29:01.this. All the products on the table are protected by law. If you want
:29:01. > :29:11.to sell them under a certain name. Certain morex, a Melton Mowbray
:29:11. > :29:11.
:29:11. > :29:16.pork pie must have come from mel tonne Mowbray. From Melton Mowbray.
:29:16. > :29:22.Sam pain has to come from the champagne region otherwise it is
:29:22. > :29:26.just sparkling white wine. Let me introduce my guest. I I thought the
:29:26. > :29:29.principle of this legislation was to protect a traditional recipe or
:29:29. > :29:34.product from cheap copies, marketing under the brand. What's
:29:34. > :29:37.wrong with that? There is nothing wrong and I am in favour of ensure
:29:37. > :29:41.when you have a product that calls itself a certain product and says
:29:41. > :29:45.it is from a certain areas, that's what it is and if there are going
:29:45. > :29:49.to be cheap imitations then that's wrong. So we should have quality
:29:49. > :29:53.control. What I am saying, there are strict rules here and there
:29:53. > :29:58.ought to be flexibility because as time goes on, it is possible that
:29:58. > :30:02.that people may unearth things like they may find that a particular
:30:02. > :30:06.product was actually made or grown in a particular area and therefore,
:30:06. > :30:12.they need to revise the rules to include something else. That is all
:30:12. > :30:22.I'm asking for. Let me be clear, I am not suggesting that standards or
:30:22. > :30:22.
:30:22. > :31:07.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 44 seconds
:31:07. > :31:11.quality control should be at the end of the day, you can say
:31:11. > :31:16.that this product is the real product. What I am trying to argue
:31:16. > :31:22.is that these rules are so strict that sometimes it can be difficult
:31:22. > :31:28.to break through. In a time of austerity, these are nice, high
:31:28. > :31:32.quality products, which are you partial to? A bit of cheese,
:31:32. > :31:40.genuinely, a bit of Stilton to use with a bit of wine closedown well.
:31:40. > :31:47.-- a bit of Stilton to. I think we should have lunch now! Shailesh Vara
:31:47. > :31:53.is joined as in the studio, as has Nigel White, the chairman of the
:31:53. > :31:56.Stilton Cheesemakers Association. -- Shailesh Vara has joined us. Does it
:31:56. > :32:06.not seem silly that a cheese produced in Stilton cannot call
:32:06. > :32:07.
:32:07. > :32:09.itself a Stilton to? The name was protected in 1967 or 68 by a
:32:09. > :32:14.certification trademark granted to the Stilton Cheesemakers
:32:14. > :32:16.Association, which said that it must be made to a prescribed recipe in
:32:16. > :32:22.the counties of Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire and Leicestershire.
:32:22. > :32:26.But some historians say that Stilton is has got its name after being sold
:32:26. > :32:34.to travellers passing through the village of Stilton in the 18th
:32:34. > :32:36.century? So it came from there? about 1745 onwards, most of the
:32:36. > :32:42.Stilton was coming from Leicestershire and Nottinghamshire.
:32:42. > :32:47.As far as we know, there has been no cheese made in the village of
:32:47. > :32:52.Stilton for at least 200 years. there was a Stilton and is recipe
:32:52. > :33:01.published in a newsletter by Richard Radley in 1723. I remember reading
:33:01. > :33:04.about it at the time! It was a recipe for what was called Stilton.
:33:05. > :33:11.The recipe bears no relationship whatsoever with the cheese protected
:33:11. > :33:15.from 1968 onwards, that recipe was what we call cooked, pressed, cream
:33:15. > :33:20.cheese. No mention of blue. The Stilton we have been making the
:33:20. > :33:30.dairies for well over 100 years is unimpressed, uncooked, blue veined
:33:30. > :33:34.cheese. You are a bunch of imposters! Not at all. A local
:33:34. > :33:39.historian, working with the people making the cheese in Stilton at the
:33:39. > :33:43.moment, they have come up with a pamphlet dating from 1722 which not
:33:43. > :33:48.only speaks of Stilton making a cheese that of making Stilton is.
:33:48. > :33:55.There is a book which makes reference to the village, and even
:33:55. > :34:00.Daniel Defoe, writing in 1724, makes reference to Stilton and is being
:34:00. > :34:06.made in the village of Stilton. Lawrence says a perfect Stilton
:34:06. > :34:08.should be about seven inches in diameter, eight inches in height,
:34:08. > :34:18.and weigh about �18, which is exactly what my Christmas Stilton
:34:18. > :34:20.
:34:20. > :34:25.did. But this was referred to as the English Parmesan. You ought to put
:34:25. > :34:29.the facts straight, no recipe at the moment adheres to what was made in
:34:29. > :34:32.the 18th century. In the 18th century, the cheese made in the
:34:32. > :34:38.village of Stilton was the same as is subsequently amazed in
:34:38. > :34:47.Leicestershire. Foreign muck? ! Leicestershire, Derbyshire and
:34:47. > :34:55.Nottinghamshire are new boys to the scene. The owner of the Bluebell in
:34:55. > :35:01.wanted to increase production, he did a deal with Leicestershire, a
:35:01. > :35:05.married couple, they then allowed Leicestershire... Or I would say to
:35:05. > :35:11.Nigel is produce the facts, produced the dates and the documents and the
:35:11. > :35:17.authors. Have you been making cheese in Stilton for the last 200 years?
:35:17. > :35:24.Nigel says you have not. There has not been cheese for a while, I don't
:35:24. > :35:30.know for how long. If you want to change the European definition, it
:35:31. > :35:36.does not say it needs to be made in... It does.It says it should
:35:36. > :35:40.originally have been made there, and it was. I certainly know that one
:35:40. > :35:50.man has been making cheese for the past two years which to all intents
:35:50. > :35:50.
:35:50. > :35:57.and purposes is Stilton and is. does it matter? For 100 years we had
:35:57. > :36:02.none at all. Why does it matter? matters that consumers need to know
:36:02. > :36:06.where the product comes from. What the protected designation does to
:36:06. > :36:12.any product is to tell the consumer worried has come from. At the moment
:36:12. > :36:17.it can only come from those three counties. Unless Nigel produces
:36:17. > :36:21.evidence, what this boils downed two is the existing Stilton is the ones
:36:21. > :36:30.to maintain their monopoly and cartel, they don't want anybody knew
:36:30. > :36:40.breaking the market. You as the chairman of the Stilton to should
:36:40. > :36:41.
:36:41. > :36:51.say, welcome on board if you can provide the evidence. Up to now you
:36:51. > :36:51.
:36:51. > :37:52.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 44 seconds
:37:52. > :37:55.Agriculture and then it has to go evidence and we have got to problem
:37:55. > :38:05.with that. You have got to eat that before you
:38:05. > :38:11.
:38:11. > :38:16.The political show moves on to tomorrow's Queen's Speech. It is
:38:16. > :38:22.the moment when the Government sets the agenda for the next 12 months.
:38:22. > :38:26.So what's on the cards? Jo has the details. Well, the much trailed
:38:26. > :38:32.Pensions Bill will introduce a single tier pension of �134 a week
:38:32. > :38:38.for everyone in Britain who spends 35 years working or or caring for
:38:38. > :38:44.children or the elderly. A new Immigration Bill is coming our way.
:38:44. > :38:54.It will allow foreign criminals to be deported more easily.
:38:54. > :38:56.
:38:56. > :39:04.There will be a High-Speed Two Bill. Many Conservative backbenchers will
:39:04. > :39:09.be pleased that the commitment to dedicate 0.7% to international aid
:39:09. > :39:14.will not be enthis rind in law -- enshrined in law and there will be
:39:14. > :39:18.no snoopers charter. Despite the UKIP surge there will be no Bill
:39:18. > :39:27.paving the way for an EU referendum in the Queen's Speech.
:39:27. > :39:36.Thanks, Jo. With us now is Bob Neill. So are
:39:36. > :39:39.you giving up on the standard white cigarette packages and on the
:39:39. > :39:42.enshrining aid in law and you are going to be tough on immigrants in
:39:42. > :39:47.welfare. I guess UKIP is getting its way?
:39:47. > :39:53.Well, we needed to make space in the programme for the cheeses
:39:53. > :39:59.description amendments Bill, didn't we, Andrew?
:39:59. > :40:03.UKIP would like that! What we are con concentrating on are measures
:40:03. > :40:07.dealing with making sure the economy gets back on track,
:40:07. > :40:11.removing regulation and making sure we assist businesses going for
:40:11. > :40:14.growth. That's the key for the coming few months.
:40:14. > :40:18.What will be in the Queen's Speech that will get growth among
:40:18. > :40:25.businesses? Well, I am not going to pre-empt what's going to be in the
:40:25. > :40:32.Queen's Speech. But you will find a number of pressures there
:40:32. > :40:36.Give aus give us a taste of one? And there will be issues around
:40:36. > :40:46.that and we will be seeing outed important reforms around welfare,
:40:46. > :41:06.
:41:06. > :41:11.so that people don't have the poorer pensions when they are older but
:41:12. > :41:18.they have had, looking after carers. Just in the summary that Jo made
:41:18. > :41:25.earlier, a really good collect Shannon of things will work. -- a
:41:25. > :41:29.really good collection of things. If you see any studies about the
:41:29. > :41:37.Borders agency, it has been disgraceful with many people waiting
:41:37. > :41:41.for ages to see if they are allowed to stay or not. We need to make sure
:41:41. > :41:47.the system works properly so that people who should be here can get
:41:47. > :41:53.here easily, people who should not be here cannot. Why have you
:41:53. > :42:00.abandoned to your pledge to have an amnesty for illegal immigrants?
:42:00. > :42:04.was not a pledge. We have heard of people who have waited for ten or 14
:42:05. > :42:08.years to have an answer from the Home Office, it strikes me that as a
:42:08. > :42:17.Home Office problem. Don't they deserve to stay? Wipe the slate
:42:17. > :42:21.clean -- clean? People who have been here for a long time are allowed
:42:21. > :42:26.nationality. You have abandoned a principle position which would make
:42:26. > :42:31.life easier for people who have been here illegally for a long time to go
:42:31. > :42:35.for the easier hit of bashing those who are coming recently. I said we
:42:35. > :42:38.wanted to make it easier for people who should be here to get here.
:42:39. > :42:44.Constituents find it very hard to get family visas, asylum claims are
:42:44. > :42:49.waiting for years, the Home Secretary is doing an inquiry
:42:49. > :42:54.because it is a disgrace that it takes so long. People who should be
:42:54. > :42:58.able to get into the country find it very hard, we should be able to fix
:42:58. > :43:02.that. It is hard to avoid the impression that you are running out
:43:02. > :43:07.of steam, there is nothing which will set the heather on fire.
:43:07. > :43:12.are important measures going forward. We are putting lots of
:43:12. > :43:17.things place. I remember my time as a minister, a great deal of the work
:43:17. > :43:21.is about implementation. That is what I mean, it may be that that is
:43:21. > :43:26.where you are. The die is cast on your deficit reduction policy, your
:43:26. > :43:31.welfare reforms are being ruled out, that will not change, your education
:43:31. > :43:36.reforms are still a work in progress. In a sense, you at a stage
:43:36. > :43:41.where there are no more big ideas. It is trying to do and get credit
:43:41. > :43:48.for what you already doing? Doing the job we set out to do, we should
:43:48. > :43:53.not apologise for that. Alan Johnson, you said that the aftermath
:43:53. > :43:59.was -- aftermath of last week's election was that David Miliband is
:43:59. > :44:09.showing too much alike? What does that mean? It is a fixed term
:44:09. > :44:10.
:44:10. > :44:14.parliament, you do not know when the election will be called, it could be
:44:14. > :44:17.four years, it could be slightly less. We know there will not be an
:44:17. > :44:20.election until 2015, so under those circumstances, no opposition serious
:44:20. > :44:23.about getting into government wants to reveal too much to years ahead.
:44:23. > :44:29.You can reveal the direction of travel. The criticism of Ed
:44:29. > :44:34.Miliband, there is a whole raft... What a lot of people see as the
:44:34. > :44:38.problem is that the direction of travel has been to an unspecified
:44:38. > :44:43.vague new left, but all the suggestions are that the country is
:44:43. > :44:48.moving right. I can see nothing that will come in this Queen's Speech
:44:48. > :44:55.that tackles the main problem, lack of growth, a stagnant economy. What
:44:55. > :45:02.Ed Miliband is doing is saying how we can get the economy going.
:45:02. > :45:06.I don't agree that Ed Miliband has revealed very much policy at all. If
:45:06. > :45:10.the sheer number of bills passed was the test of success, the last
:45:10. > :45:18.government would have been a huge success. How many Immigration Bills
:45:18. > :45:20.did you have, eight or nine? last government dealt with the most
:45:20. > :45:26.serious economic crisis the world has had for 45 years. You campaigned
:45:26. > :45:32.on the same platform as us with Vince Cable, if you overdo austerity
:45:32. > :45:37.you will choke growth. We had growth of 1.8 % coming out of a recession,
:45:37. > :45:42.it is ridiculous for the Liberal Democrats to say that there was
:45:42. > :45:47.nothing in America, Lehman Brothers didn't happen, we got into this
:45:47. > :45:56.situation because we recruited more nurses and teachers. You deregulated
:45:56. > :46:06.the banks, you allowed the boom to continue. Are you in favour of
:46:06. > :46:10.
:46:10. > :46:14.having a mandate referendum whereby you introduce a Referendum Bill, and
:46:14. > :46:17.the people voting would or would not mandate the government to
:46:17. > :46:24.renegotiate their powers? Are you in favour? The one caveat about that is
:46:24. > :46:34.we know... I am in favour of exploring all the options and making
:46:34. > :46:38.it very clear that we set out our stall for renegotiation and what it
:46:38. > :46:42.would be. We said we would publish a draft before the general election. I
:46:42. > :46:46.am in favour of publishing the draft bill, that makes sense. Whether or
:46:46. > :46:50.not the bill which would probably not get through adds anything to
:46:51. > :46:54.that, that is a question. Would it not help you with that was opposed
:46:54. > :46:56.by other parties? You would say they had a chance to vote, and the only
:46:56. > :46:59.party which would give you a referendum is to vote Conservative?
:46:59. > :47:04.That is superficially attractive, but we have already shown that the
:47:04. > :47:14.Prime Minister has delivered on the veto and the renegotiation of the
:47:14. > :47:17.
:47:17. > :47:21.Budget, he will do that on the Government is to keep us safe, but
:47:21. > :47:24.monitoring those who would do us harm becomes more difficult and
:47:24. > :47:28.intrusive on the pif asy of ordinary people. This Government,
:47:28. > :47:34.like the one before t has tried to give the Security Services greater
:47:34. > :47:37.powers to monitor the internet, but its latest attempt, the
:47:38. > :47:45.Communications Data Bill has been vetoed by Nick Clegg and won't
:47:45. > :47:48.feature in tomorrow's Queen's Speech. A senior Lib Dem, Lord
:47:48. > :47:53.Carlisle accused his leader of putting party politics above
:47:53. > :47:59.national securitypm. David Thompson reports.
:47:59. > :48:03.Two plots to bring terror to the streets of Britain. One thwarted
:48:03. > :48:08.using surveillance intelligence, the other stopped by a random
:48:08. > :48:12.traffic check. That's the head quarters of MI5. Their job, to keep
:48:12. > :48:19.us safe by keeping one step ahead of terrorism and organised crime.
:48:19. > :48:25.But in an internet age, that job is increasingly difficult which is why
:48:25. > :48:29.successive governments tried to give them increased powers to
:48:29. > :48:33.scrutinise activities on websites. The latest attempt is the
:48:33. > :48:39.Communications Data Bill and experts believe it is crucial.
:48:39. > :48:44.kind of legislation is vital. The data that we are talking about has
:48:44. > :48:47.been used for crucial prsz, murder, -- prosecutions, murder, serious
:48:47. > :48:57.organised crime. I think it is necessary to have this Bill in
:48:57. > :49:00.order to organise data which is already available from mobile
:49:00. > :49:03.telephone operators. This is existing material that tells you
:49:03. > :49:07.the the when and the how long of communications.
:49:07. > :49:12.Maybe, but it has been dubbed the snoopers charter and derailed by
:49:12. > :49:18.Nick Clegg and is unlibly to see -- unlikely to see the light of day
:49:18. > :49:21.soon. The main criticism is on privacy grounds. The internet
:49:21. > :49:25.businesses expected to provide information on service users and
:49:25. > :49:29.hold it for 12 months are sceptical too.
:49:29. > :49:32.When you have people like Skype and Microsoft and Google asking what
:49:32. > :49:36.information is it that you want that we don't give you and the
:49:36. > :49:39.officials condition answer that question. Then it is time to take a
:49:39. > :49:44.step back from the Bill as we have and think about what information it
:49:44. > :49:46.is that we need. What people dubbed the snoopers
:49:46. > :49:52.charter, that is not going to happen.
:49:52. > :49:57.Nick Clegg was cheered by civil liberty campaigners when he vetoed
:49:57. > :50:04.the Bill. The man hose job it was to keep tabs on terrorism
:50:04. > :50:09.legislation. He is scathing. He has torpedoed this. I am disappoint
:50:09. > :50:16.that had some of the my my Liberal Democrat colleagues including a few
:50:16. > :50:23.in the Lords decided without knowing any of the evidence to
:50:23. > :50:27.oppose this legislation. If we don't have an organised
:50:27. > :50:32.Communications Data Bill which provides the authorities with
:50:33. > :50:36.access to the when and for how long of mobile phone telephone calls in
:50:36. > :50:39.appropriate cases then there will be increased danger to the public.
:50:39. > :50:44.That doesn't seem like responsible Government.
:50:44. > :50:48.The key task of the men and women who work in these buildings, MI5
:50:48. > :50:51.and MI6 is to safeguard our freedoms and our way of life. Their
:50:51. > :50:57.challenge to do it without destroying the things they are
:50:57. > :51:03.trying to preserve. Alan Johnston is still with us. He
:51:03. > :51:06.was Home Secretary in Gordon Brown's Government. Alan Johnson as
:51:07. > :51:16.Home Secretary you were privy to intelligence briefings. What do you
:51:16. > :51:23.make of the Liberal Democrats tor peed owing this Bill? -- por --
:51:23. > :51:33.torpedoing this Bill? I agree with Lord Carlisle. Julian sat on a
:51:33. > :51:33.
:51:33. > :51:41.committee that produced a very good report as did the committee which
:51:41. > :51:44.men zee Campbell Menzies Campbell sits on said there was a problem
:51:44. > :51:46.that the problem is growing and the problem needs to be tackled. It
:51:46. > :51:50.isn't going to be tackled for two years.
:51:50. > :51:55.So was it responsible of the Liberal Democrats to do what they
:51:55. > :52:04.did? No, it was responsible to get the balance right between eitheries
:52:04. > :52:09.and the need for the -- -- civil liberties and there were problems
:52:09. > :52:14.with the draft Bill, but to scupper it... Is it responsible according
:52:14. > :52:17.to your colleague who knows something about this stuff. He did
:52:17. > :52:23.scrutinise terrorism legislation. He says it will lead to an increase
:52:23. > :52:29.in danger to the public. This was irresponsible Government?
:52:29. > :52:34.disagree. A huge amount this data is available. Last year, there were
:52:34. > :52:38.500,000 requests for this data under existing law. We know that
:52:38. > :52:41.Labour tried to expand it, to collect move information on every
:52:41. > :52:45.website that everybody went to. That's what that was and that's
:52:45. > :52:50.what this proposed Bill would have done. It is responsible responsible
:52:50. > :52:53.not to allow that to happen. The committee had a look and we said
:52:53. > :53:00.the information coming from the Home Office was unhelpful and
:53:00. > :53:03.misleading. We never said there was a need for legislation. There was.
:53:03. > :53:07.It doesn't say there was a need. You can have a look and you will
:53:07. > :53:12.see it does not say it. It says there is a case for legislation,
:53:12. > :53:17.but this goes further than it needs That does rather admit there is a
:53:17. > :53:27.case for some sort of law and an enhancing of the laws to pro at the
:53:27. > :53:27.
:53:27. > :53:32.time individuals or to -- enhancing of the laws or to catch criminals?
:53:32. > :53:37.It could lead to less information being available to the police and
:53:37. > :53:40.the Security Services. If you had �1.8 billion to help the police,
:53:40. > :53:44.how would you spend it? His answer was not this Communications Data
:53:44. > :53:48.Bill. It was about having more police on the streets and more
:53:48. > :53:53.training. I am surprised any party wants to spend �1.8 billion on this
:53:53. > :53:58.rather rather than doing proper police. Would it have been value
:53:58. > :54:02.for money? When we have had Alan Johnson saying sophisticated
:54:02. > :54:10.criminals are going to be ahead of the technology and would have about
:54:10. > :54:15.enshrined in this Bill, pointless? Jacqui Smith published the
:54:15. > :54:20.consultation dumb on this. I saw it -- document on this. I think
:54:20. > :54:24.Theresa May and the Conservatives came in and they were libertarian.
:54:24. > :54:28.When they saw the evidence of the gap and no one can say what the gap
:54:28. > :54:32.is because it gives a gift to the people who want to exploit it. It
:54:32. > :54:39.was clear that there is a problem as the Intelligence and Security
:54:39. > :54:43.Committee on which Menzies Campbell sits.
:54:43. > :54:49.There were issues in the join committee report and Nick Brown sat
:54:49. > :54:54.on that and Julian and they they produced valid points. Now, that
:54:54. > :54:59.needs to be taken into account because it was a draft Bill and a
:54:59. > :55:03.new Bill needs to come forward. was a draft because Nick said it
:55:03. > :55:09.was a draft. I will quote you on that. But the issue about the gap
:55:09. > :55:14.has not been substantiated. We have been told there is a 25% gap. The
:55:14. > :55:19.former head of Fife said that relied -- MI5 said that. It was
:55:19. > :55:24.said by the former head of MI5. The case has not been made to spend
:55:24. > :55:29.billions of points setting up a database to keep track of every
:55:29. > :55:32.wooilt we go to. Every time we do something on Google, send a Gmail
:55:32. > :55:36.that's a huge amount of personal information.
:55:36. > :55:39.What you have not answered is, was it right to get rid of the
:55:39. > :55:41.legislation as a result? It is right not to have this new Bill,
:55:41. > :55:47.yes. You could have put safeguards in.
:55:47. > :55:53.You admitted there is a case to be made for new legislation and you
:55:53. > :55:55.have cast aside the legislation? would be comfortable with just
:55:55. > :56:00.having the extra safeguards. I don't think the Home Secretary was
:56:00. > :56:04.happy to do that. There is one issue of data about IP address
:56:04. > :56:07.matching which is is technical where there is agreement. That is
:56:07. > :56:11.what the police told us would be really useful.
:56:11. > :56:15.Are we going to be less safe? Julian was dealing with the police.
:56:15. > :56:22.His colleague was dealing with the intelligence services. A smaller
:56:22. > :56:25.part of this, law enforcement is the major part. 90% of the cases
:56:26. > :56:29.they resolve are resolved because they put together who was
:56:29. > :56:34.contacting who. Who else was in this plot? What the network is. And
:56:34. > :56:44.there is a tranche of this that is not legislated for and that puts us
:56:44. > :56:45.
:56:45. > :56:49.in more dangerpm. I am going to have to finish it there.
:56:49. > :56:56.As well as being a former Home Secretary and former Education
:56:56. > :57:05.Secretary and former chancellor, Alan Johnson turned his hand to
:57:05. > :57:11.writing. This book, This Boy, is out this week. It focuses on Alan's
:57:11. > :57:21.tough upbringing on on an estate in London. Here is a snapshot of his
:57:21. > :57:21.
:57:21. > :57:31.time in politics so far. People from my kind of background
:57:31. > :58:00.
:58:00. > :58:09.It is simple. What we are worried about is you
:58:09. > :58:16.you haven't got the bottle or the experience.
:58:16. > :58:26.We have got the book. This Boy by Alan Johnson and I will make him
:58:26. > :58:33.sign it, but the unsigned copies are worth more. It really is an may
:58:33. > :58:37.an amazing story. My mum had a sad and tough life. She She died young.
:58:37. > :58:42.I call her Lily. She had a terrible life. She had a terrible life that
:58:42. > :58:48.that me and my sister escaped from because of her courage and because
:58:49. > :58:52.of her... Your sister a hero.She should have been Prime Minister!
:58:52. > :58:55.That generation, they took comfort in us having a better life?
:58:55. > :59:00.Absolutely. They came through the war. My mother came from a family
:59:00. > :59:02.of ten. Two of her siblings died young. A really tough life and were
:59:03. > :59:06.really, really determined to deliver a better future.
:59:06. > :59:13.We have to go. Harold Wilson is the answer to our quiz. He went to
:59:13. > :59:19.Europe to renegotiate and didn't give much back. That's it for today.