:00:44. > :00:47.Daily Politics. How many young children can one adult safely look
:00:48. > :00:53.after? Lib Dems and Conservatives squabble over plans to bring down
:00:53. > :00:55.the cost of childcare. It was a pretty posh do but will the
:00:55. > :01:02.bills announced by the Queen yesterday helped the government
:01:02. > :01:04.connect with ordinary voters? Unions have played a key role in the
:01:04. > :01:11.Labour Party since its creation that is the money and influence coming
:01:11. > :01:14.too much -- having too much of a sale over the selection of
:01:14. > :01:17.parliamentary candidates? And what is on Dave and Ed 's mind
:01:17. > :01:24.on Queens speech date the Mac a certain football managers
:01:24. > :01:27.resignation, of course. -- Queens speech date? A certain football
:01:27. > :01:32.manager's resignation. Without -- with us for the next
:01:32. > :01:36.hour, three of Her Majesty's's most loyal subjects. Sarah Newton, deputy
:01:36. > :01:39.chair of the Conservative party, Stella Creasy, stack -- Shadow
:01:39. > :01:45.Minister for crime convention who is dressed perfectly for our sofa
:01:45. > :01:53.area. She has just merged in. Obviously there was a job lot on the
:01:53. > :02:00.material. Charming!
:02:00. > :02:03.And Lorely Burt, chair of the Lib Dem parliamentary party. Let's start
:02:03. > :02:06.with childcare and the revelation that Nick Clegg has told the
:02:06. > :02:09.Conservatives that he is not so keen on government plans to increase the
:02:09. > :02:16.number of children that nursery staff and childminders can look
:02:16. > :02:19.after. Speaking on LBC's Call Clegg this morning, he said there had been
:02:19. > :02:25.discussions for weeks about the plans to increase statutory ratios
:02:25. > :02:30.for carers. We have been talking about this for weeks and weeks and
:02:30. > :02:35.that was as surprised as anyone else that this appeared in public
:02:35. > :02:40.overnight. Being open, I'm telling you that this is a debate we have
:02:40. > :02:44.had for a long time. You could look after four at once, couldn't you?
:02:44. > :02:50.It's not a question about me. I challenge you to spend a morning
:02:50. > :02:53.looking after six two-year-olds. will have a go if you have a go.
:02:53. > :02:58.going to visit a childcare Centre this afternoon so maybe we'll have a
:02:58. > :03:05.go. I'll wish them both luck with looking after six two-year-olds. Is
:03:05. > :03:10.this another U-turn on policy? at all. I understand that there will
:03:10. > :03:13.be a consultation. They are going to talk to the different interest
:03:13. > :03:17.groups and make sure that what we're doing is the right thing. It is
:03:17. > :03:23.important decision. Nick Clegg says it is not the right thing to do. He
:03:23. > :03:26.has clearly said he does not think the ratio should be increased.
:03:26. > :03:33.Conservative minister says that it is. As I say, we will take the
:03:33. > :03:36.advice of the experts. My own daughter went to nursery school and
:03:36. > :03:41.they do not know what the ratio was but an old that she got a lot of
:03:41. > :03:47.loving and professional care. I think that is the important thing.
:03:47. > :03:52.We can come onto the substance, but there is a risk that this policy
:03:52. > :03:55.will not go ahead. Is that how you see it? These concerns have been
:03:55. > :04:02.raised at the 11th hour and Nick Clegg does not think the balance is
:04:02. > :04:10.right. I think we will sort it out. I think there will be a compromise.
:04:10. > :04:14.Where will it come from? Am not a fly on the wall. I do not know, I am
:04:14. > :04:21.not a professional. Think we should leave these decisions to people with
:04:21. > :04:24.the professional ability. experts say that it is nonsense and
:04:24. > :04:28.the government's own advice on this has said that it would be madness to
:04:28. > :04:33.go ahead and increase the ratio. Now we have the Deputy Prime Minister
:04:33. > :04:37.saying he is very concerned. This policy is not going to happen.
:04:37. > :04:41.is part of the bill in the normal process is that it gets well
:04:41. > :04:45.scrutinised. This is such an important issue for families all
:04:45. > :04:52.over the country. but scrutinised by the backbenchers, not the
:04:52. > :04:56.government. You're meant to do that when you make it a bill. There is
:04:56. > :05:02.proper scrutiny involving people inside and outside of Parliament.
:05:02. > :05:06.Freedom is usually -- Sweden is usually held up as the best country
:05:06. > :05:10.for childcare but they have no ratios at all. But they have a lot
:05:10. > :05:13.of state subsidies. They have a lot of highly qualified, trained staff.
:05:13. > :05:22.And the make sure they have good quality childcare. I think any
:05:22. > :05:27.parent, and we are all mothers here, any mother would love the best
:05:27. > :05:31.possible care for their children. I think they are really well placed to
:05:31. > :05:36.know and make the choice. How many children do you think one adult
:05:36. > :05:42.could safely look after? I think if it is a question of how
:05:42. > :05:46.well-qualified they are, but I am not an expert. I am in Mum of three
:05:46. > :05:52.but it is not an area of expertise for me. I'd agree. I would not want
:05:52. > :05:56.to look after six voluntarily. But the problem here, this is a policy
:05:56. > :06:00.that has been presented and it is only part of the bill, but without
:06:00. > :06:05.it, the rest of the Bill collapses because it is all costed around this
:06:05. > :06:12.element of childcare, and an earnest has clearly said that without this
:06:12. > :06:15.element, the rest of the package is not costed. This is a proper debate
:06:16. > :06:19.to be had in Parliament but I would say that this is such an important
:06:19. > :06:24.issue, let's not make a political ping-pong match out of it. Families
:06:24. > :06:28.all over the country want to know that we are focused on an important
:06:28. > :06:31.issue, high-quality, affordable childcare. That is the most
:06:31. > :06:36.expensive childcare anywhere in Europe, apart from Switzerland. We
:06:36. > :06:43.have so many families that want to be able to go out to work and they
:06:43. > :06:47.cannot afford it. OK, there are details need to ironed out...
:06:47. > :06:53.think this is a fairly crucial detail. -- needs to be ironed out.
:06:54. > :06:57.How many children can an adult would after? You mean Nick Clegg, he is
:06:57. > :07:02.play politics with this. I think it is unfair to draw particular
:07:02. > :07:07.attention. One week, the Labour Party figures are good idea in the
:07:07. > :07:10.next they think it is a bad idea. This is such an important issue. All
:07:10. > :07:17.the parties should really get to the evidence. Other countries have these
:07:17. > :07:21.ratios. Liberal Democrats are the ones in government, not Labour, but
:07:21. > :07:27.we will come to live now. Do you think it is too many, Stella
:07:27. > :07:30.Creasy? I have got a 2 euros niece and ironed or her, but cannot
:07:30. > :07:37.understand how someone could have another eyes on the back of their
:07:37. > :07:40.heads to cope with six of her at the same time. -- enough eyes. We agreed
:07:40. > :07:45.that families are struggling because of the high cost of childcare but
:07:45. > :07:48.one of the things we did was bringing in childcare vouchers. My
:07:48. > :07:54.word in the 50% of sure start centres say they are not financially
:07:54. > :07:58.sustainable. There is debate about training and qualifications, to make
:07:58. > :08:05.sure we attract and retain the best people. But this is not a small
:08:05. > :08:10.issue. I think the worry is that if the number is not sex, what is the
:08:10. > :08:14.number? But should government increased the number? I am minded by
:08:14. > :08:21.the evidence from Holland where they introduced the ratio and it cost the
:08:21. > :08:26.public purse more. It is a lose lose scenario. Nick Clegg picked up on
:08:26. > :08:31.that. He's right to be but why is he suddenly raising these concerns? Liz
:08:31. > :08:36.Truss has been an advocate for this for a long time. She has been clear
:08:36. > :08:40.about her views, so for it to appear suddenly, I worry that parents are
:08:40. > :08:43.just going to be confused, are they going to make progress? I do not
:08:43. > :08:47.know how you're going to bring childcare costs down? We think
:08:47. > :08:52.investment in the quality of training, and we're looking at sure
:08:52. > :08:55.start. One of the things that comes up is the cost of premises. If you
:08:56. > :09:01.are losing the centres, that is something we should be looking at.
:09:01. > :09:09.Ratios are not the answer. That is the debate we are having. Do you
:09:09. > :09:13.agree with that? You do not agree with the proposal? The key thing, I
:09:14. > :09:19.think we agree, is the quality of the childcare. People have to make
:09:19. > :09:29.technical decisions. I think if parents can have more choice about
:09:29. > :09:35.the type of childcare, that would be a good advance. If ratios are the
:09:35. > :09:42.key thing, why do you want them done at all? You have do have some
:09:42. > :09:48.ratios. Sweden does.That is fine, but you have to set out the basic
:09:48. > :09:55.tenet. Able do not Trust the parents? If people want more than
:09:55. > :09:59.that, then they can have that. I have interviewed Liz Truss on this
:09:59. > :10:04.issue and she is adamant that those ratios need to be increased to bring
:10:04. > :10:09.childcare costs down. I'm not sure where the costs will come down. Will
:10:09. > :10:13.they be passed on to parents? I am not convinced that they will be. We
:10:13. > :10:17.were working in the industry will earn more money and that might be a
:10:17. > :10:22.good thing but can you guarantee that by increasing ratios, parents
:10:22. > :10:28.will pay less? I think it is about choice. Elizabeth wants to be able
:10:28. > :10:34.to offer more choice. Parents are best placed to decide what is the
:10:34. > :10:38.best childcare for them. This is one part of a comrade is a package of
:10:38. > :10:42.measures, making it really affordable for families. Sarah is
:10:42. > :10:47.right, this is a key cost of living issue. We have to do everything we
:10:48. > :10:54.can. Will this be on the books by September, when this is supposed to
:10:54. > :10:59.be rolled out? That is only months away. We had not seen the timetable
:10:59. > :11:05.for parliament but if that is the commitment, we will get to it? Do
:11:05. > :11:10.you agree the Mac with a copper mines, with a change? It has to come
:11:10. > :11:20.out in the wash. We will see. It must be evidence -based. Liz Truss
:11:20. > :11:25.has done her homework. She has. The government's expert says that the
:11:25. > :11:28.ratio makes no sense at all. believe in evidence -based policy
:11:28. > :11:35.making and I'm sure the Minister setting this out to the committee
:11:35. > :11:39.will have a really good debate. Your listeners will expect that. It is
:11:39. > :11:44.our job to spend days and days going through legislation and making sure
:11:44. > :11:48.it is fit for purpose. That is what we will be doing. We will have this
:11:48. > :11:53.discussion before September. Don't say September is just round
:11:53. > :11:56.the corner, we have not even had a summer yet! Acts more like Nigel
:11:56. > :12:04.Farage and less like a public school toff, that was the help of advice of
:12:04. > :12:07.the man who ran David Cameron's County Council. Keith Mitchell said
:12:07. > :12:10.the UKIP leader was better at connecting with ordinary mortals
:12:11. > :12:15.than other politicians and was unafraid to be filmed with a pint of
:12:15. > :12:21.beer and a fag in his hand will stop David Cameron, I'm sure he knows a
:12:21. > :12:24.few things about fags. Yesterday 's win speech looked like a response to
:12:24. > :12:30.the rise of UKIP. Will the speech appeal to disaffected Tory voters?
:12:30. > :12:33.We have been looking at it. The Conservatives are keen to focus
:12:33. > :12:37.on issues that will appeal to members of the grassroots that might
:12:37. > :12:42.have gone over to UKIP or have gone to the pub instead. Shocking. To add
:12:42. > :12:43.some broth to the legislative agenda, there is a new automated
:12:43. > :12:45.agenda, there is a new automated easier to deport foreign criminals
:12:45. > :12:49.agenda, there is a new automated easier to deport measures to
:12:49. > :12:54.regulate migrant access to housing in the NHS. Out our plans for a
:12:54. > :12:59.minimum price for alcohol and plain cigarette packaging. That has
:12:59. > :13:04.angered the black health campaigners but pleased critics of the nanny
:13:04. > :13:09.state. In our new rules meaning that tens of thousands of prisoners will
:13:09. > :13:12.be monitored for up to year after a short jail terms. But there were
:13:12. > :13:15.when the reasons for some backbenchers to think the glass is
:13:15. > :13:20.half-full. No mention of the EU referendum, dashing hopes of a
:13:20. > :13:23.government Bill to enshrine in law a vote after the next election.
:13:23. > :13:30.Ministers say the bill giving the way for high-speed to will boost
:13:30. > :13:34.growth. And although it was not mentioned by the Queen, the gay
:13:34. > :13:37.marriage bill has been carried over from the last Parliament and will be
:13:37. > :13:47.coming back to Parliament. Ed Miliband claimed the package
:13:47. > :13:48.
:13:48. > :13:53.amounted to remove to the right and warned the Prime Minister that you
:13:53. > :14:03.cannot out the rise should the rise. Did you see the hand of UKIP in the
:14:03. > :14:05.
:14:05. > :14:11.Queens speech? -- out-Farage Farage. We have seen Lord Lawson this week
:14:11. > :14:15.saying that Britain would be better out of the European Union. I think
:14:15. > :14:22.that you look at the meat of the Queens speech, putting restrictions
:14:22. > :14:26.on benefits, for example, for migrants. Obviously, the hand of
:14:26. > :14:29.UKIP is there. But this cannot apply to citizens from the European Union
:14:29. > :14:37.and this cannot apply to citizens from bog area oral mania or Poland
:14:37. > :14:40.or Lithuania. It will only apply to people from Australia, New Zealand,
:14:40. > :14:46.Canada. I think that is the scrum monetary and creates a two tier
:14:46. > :14:52.immigration system. Know that you have joined the big time, you are on
:14:52. > :14:56.the Daily Politics, are you going to have do start developing more
:14:56. > :15:03.policies? Are you a party that is going to have policies or you more a
:15:03. > :15:06.state of mind? UKIP is a movement in many ways and it is a state of mind
:15:06. > :15:11.in many ways. It is about people wanting to gain independence for our
:15:11. > :15:15.country. It is about people who want the people who make the decisions in
:15:15. > :15:22.this country to be the people you can get rid of after five years.
:15:22. > :15:25.They do not want it to be unelected commissioners in Brussels who
:15:25. > :15:31.basically dictate 75% of the laws that we have to apply. In a way, it
:15:31. > :15:37.is a state of mine but it is also a fully fledged political party with a
:15:37. > :15:46.raft of policies. Where are you on social care? Do you have a cap? What
:15:46. > :15:49.would it be? On social care, care for the elderly is quite important.
:15:49. > :15:55.Just quite important? It is important because these people have
:15:55. > :15:58.retired. So what is the policy?The policy is that they deserve care in
:15:58. > :16:03.the government are moving in the right direction. I ask about your
:16:03. > :16:09.policy. Where are you on social care? Would you have a cap and what
:16:09. > :16:13.would it be? I think the cap would be similar to what it is at the
:16:13. > :16:15.moment. We're not just here to criticise the government. The point
:16:15. > :16:20.of the matter is that when they do something right are moving in the
:16:20. > :16:23.right direction, we must say well done and given a pat on the back.
:16:23. > :16:27.There are certain issues where we do not think they are moving in the
:16:27. > :16:30.right direction. For example, the removal of any mention of the EU
:16:30. > :16:38.referendum from the Queens speech. We believe that is not good enough
:16:38. > :16:42.and we would like to see a referendum. Interesting that I asked
:16:42. > :16:48.you about social care and we end up on a referendum about Europe! Where
:16:48. > :16:54.are you on child quake? Would you support a bigger ratio on childcare
:16:54. > :16:58.issues? What is the policy there? Well, we actually think that smaller
:16:58. > :17:03.sizes work in terms of childcare, and obviously it is important
:17:03. > :17:08.because it gets our children ready for school, and primary school is
:17:08. > :17:14.where the very seed of education... Even I know what childcare does, I
:17:14. > :17:17.am trying to find out what your policy is! We would like to see
:17:17. > :17:22.smaller class sizes for childcare, but there are restrictions at the
:17:22. > :17:27.moment and cuts have to happen. What we do not want to see is bigger
:17:27. > :17:31.class sizes, because what happens then is that children are often left
:17:31. > :17:35.out and not looked after in the way that they should be. It is an
:17:35. > :17:38.interesting question, whether you should have, given that you are a
:17:38. > :17:43.state of mind and a movement, does it really matter whether you have
:17:43. > :17:47.policies on social care or childcare? That is not what you are
:17:47. > :17:51.in politics for, you are not going to form a government in this
:17:51. > :17:55.country. Should you bother going down the road of trying to answer my
:17:55. > :18:00.questions? Or should you just say that you are a one issue party and
:18:00. > :18:06.that is all that matters? Indeed, if we voted to leave Europe, you could
:18:06. > :18:10.disband. Well, no, because we are a political party, and political
:18:10. > :18:14.parties have policies. Ten years ago, that would have washed, that we
:18:14. > :18:17.were a single issue pressure group, but that is no longer the case. We
:18:17. > :18:21.have policies, we stand in elections, we believe in a small
:18:21. > :18:25.state and freedom for the individual, and most of all we
:18:25. > :18:29.believe in freedom of our country. You had better get to work on social
:18:29. > :18:36.care and childcare before you see me again! Did you try to hire Lynton
:18:36. > :18:40.Crosby to run your campaign? No, we didn't, unfortunately. I have had no
:18:40. > :18:45.contact with Lynton Crosby whatsoever. But did Mr Farage tried
:18:45. > :18:51.to hire him? Mr Farage has had conversations with Mr Crosby, you
:18:51. > :18:56.will have to ask him. I have had no conversations with him. Sarah
:18:56. > :19:01.Newton, you have been attacking UKIP because of their immigration policy
:19:01. > :19:06.lacks detail, and they are looking at it again. If that is a legit as a
:19:06. > :19:13.criticism, why did you announce a policy that is lacking details?
:19:13. > :19:18.I am really concerned about is to listen to the people who vote UKIP.
:19:18. > :19:22.That is fine, but that is not the question I am asking you. If your
:19:22. > :19:27.immigration policy lacks detail with UKIP, why does your policy on
:19:27. > :19:30.immigration lacked detail? We have not seen the bill yet, and it is
:19:30. > :19:35.going to have the detail you are talking about. This is a commitment
:19:35. > :19:39.months ago. This is not a knee-jerk reaction to UKIP. These policies
:19:39. > :19:43.were developed a very long time ago to be in the Queen's Speech, and we
:19:43. > :19:49.will see the draft bills to give us, you know, proper controls on
:19:49. > :19:53.immigration. You said that private landlords and doctors are going to
:19:54. > :19:58.have to become border guards, and yet Downing Street, when we go to
:19:58. > :20:02.these briefings, could not give us any details of how this would work.
:20:02. > :20:06.You are more experienced than I am, you know the Queen's Speech lays out
:20:06. > :20:09.what we are hoping to achieve, it does not go into the details that
:20:09. > :20:13.you get as the bills are published. It is clear we have already got net
:20:13. > :20:18.immigration down by a third, and we are taking every opportunity to
:20:18. > :20:22.tighten things up. We want people to come here to contribute, come to our
:20:22. > :20:27.universities, but people who come as benefits tourists, that is something
:20:27. > :20:31.we will clamp down on. We know a lot of these restrictions, you have got
:20:31. > :20:35.UKIP in mind that the arrival of the Bulgarians and remain years, and yet
:20:35. > :20:40.Downing Street could not tell us whether this bill would be in place
:20:40. > :20:44.for January the 1st. -- Romanians. We are very concerned about the
:20:44. > :20:48.people who voted UKIP at the last election, saying to all of us, loud
:20:48. > :20:56.and clear, none of the above. We are fed up with Westminster politicians
:20:56. > :20:58.were not listening to us or addressing our issues. They took
:20:58. > :21:04.both off everyone. We were already listening to people's concerns on
:21:04. > :21:10.immigration, taking action. So UKIP may be clowns, but you want to join
:21:10. > :21:14.the circus. UKIP voters are really important to me. A few weeks ago,
:21:14. > :21:19.they were clowns, fruitcakes and closet racists, but now, because
:21:19. > :21:24.people are voting for them, they are important to you. For a long time,
:21:24. > :21:28.people who have had immigration as a concerned have been our concern. We
:21:28. > :21:31.have delivered a third reduction in net immigration. These are
:21:31. > :21:37.Conservative concerns and have been for a long time, not a reaction to
:21:37. > :21:40.UKIP. If that is true, why wouldn't you get the legislation in place
:21:41. > :21:46.before the Romanians and Bulgarians arrive? I am sure every effort will
:21:46. > :21:50.be made to tighten up everything. And you let Nadine Dorries back into
:21:50. > :21:57.the party in case she defected to UKIP, the Tories are like a UKIP
:21:57. > :22:01.puppet these days. That is the way you may love to see it, because it
:22:01. > :22:05.is going to make your life a lot more fun, having four parties, not
:22:05. > :22:09.three, but it is not the way I see it. We are there for the vast
:22:09. > :22:14.majority of people in this country, and that is what we will continue to
:22:14. > :22:18.be. Paul Nuttall, you may not have talked to Lynton Crosby, but did you
:22:18. > :22:24.talk to Nadine Dorries about joining UKIP? Well, negotiations
:22:24. > :22:28.behind-the-scenes go on all of the time, and I think the fact that they
:22:28. > :22:32.have invited her back, basically, with no strings attached, when she
:22:32. > :22:34.has been such a strident critic of the Prime Minister and the
:22:34. > :22:39.Chancellor in particular, that basically says to me they are
:22:39. > :22:44.worried that she might cross the floor and join UKIP. It's pretty
:22:44. > :22:50.much as an act of desperation. say these talks go on all the times,
:22:50. > :22:57.so there were discussions? Well, of course, again, I have not personally
:22:57. > :23:01.spoken to Nadine Dorries in my life. Would you like to? We are both
:23:01. > :23:04.Scousers, I suppose! Conversations have been going on with a number of
:23:04. > :23:08.people behind-the-scenes for quite awhile, because there are a number
:23:08. > :23:14.of conservatives out there who believed we would better off outside
:23:14. > :23:19.the European Union, and they just need to grow a backbone and do
:23:19. > :23:23.something about it. It is not just the Tories that are jumping to the
:23:23. > :23:27.UKIP tune, this is the labour that provided over the biggest increase
:23:27. > :23:30.in mass immigration this country has ever known, the Tories coming up
:23:30. > :23:34.with some things to tighten it up compared to what it was like when
:23:34. > :23:40.you were in power, and Yvette Cooper once even tougher action against
:23:40. > :23:43.immigration. You are listening to UKIP as well. We are looking at the
:23:43. > :23:47.economy, and when I look at my community, people are really
:23:47. > :23:51.struggling, and the idea that the best we can do is to say, you will
:23:52. > :23:56.need to take your passport into A&E, that really worries me, are we
:23:56. > :24:01.doing everything we can to get the country moving again? Your spokesman
:24:01. > :24:05.once migrants to be in the country. Die before they get aching back,
:24:05. > :24:12.that is tougher than what they are proposing. That in the country for
:24:12. > :24:15.some before. It is frustrating when the government says we will do
:24:15. > :24:20.something that immigration but we don't hear anything about the
:24:20. > :24:24.economy. Particularly people having their wages and the cup. You are now
:24:24. > :24:28.urging the Government to do a lot more about illegal immigrant in this
:24:28. > :24:33.country, and yet, and yet, these are the illegal immigrants that got into
:24:34. > :24:37.this country when you were in power. We are talking about illegal
:24:37. > :24:40.immigration because it is an issue. We have said that we got things
:24:40. > :24:44.wrong, and Ed Miliband and Yvette Cooper have been clear about that,
:24:44. > :24:49.but what do we do now with an economy that is stuttering along?
:24:49. > :24:53.One of the issues is about people having their wages undercut. Nobody
:24:53. > :24:59.wants to see the national minimum wage and the cut. The Government has
:24:59. > :25:06.not said anything about tackling that. -- undercut. How many cases
:25:06. > :25:13.did you bring when you were in power? I think it was about 3000
:25:13. > :25:17.502,009, and it has been cast about 1500, the number of cases. How many
:25:17. > :25:24.employers were prosecuted under Labour for not paying the minimum
:25:24. > :25:29.wage? That is my understanding.You have got that wrong almost as badly
:25:29. > :25:35.as you got the migration figures from Poland wrong! People have said,
:25:35. > :25:39.yes, we got the figures wrong on Poland, and that was difficult.
:25:39. > :25:43.did not prosecute thousands of employers. We took up the issue
:25:43. > :25:48.around enforcement. We will look up the proper figures, I think it is
:25:48. > :25:55.about ten, you are nodding, about ten were prosecuted. It is a very
:25:55. > :25:58.tiny number. You have gone along with these changes which are very
:25:58. > :26:01.much conservative -inspired, can I just remind you that you were the
:26:01. > :26:05.party that fought the last election on an amnesty for illegal
:26:05. > :26:10.immigrant's, which, if you were not running for election, may have been
:26:10. > :26:14.the most principled and honest policy of all? Yes, it didn't go
:26:14. > :26:18.down too well, though. That does not make it wrong, but at the same time
:26:18. > :26:22.what we have got to do is listen to what people are saying to us,
:26:22. > :26:26.otherwise we will become irrelevant. We have got to listen, we do listen.
:26:26. > :26:32.I go on the doorstep every week, and people talk about immigration, and
:26:32. > :26:36.that is why we are putting forward these... So the amnesty is gone
:26:36. > :26:43.question my I do not think we will be bringing that one back, but I
:26:43. > :26:50.cannot say for my party. Any reason that Nigel Farage should
:26:50. > :27:00.be in the leaders debates? That is above my pay grade extra
:27:00. > :27:09.
:27:09. > :27:13.schmuck I think you are an opinion politics when Labour was doing very
:27:13. > :27:16.well in local elections, I am mindful of the fact that does not
:27:16. > :27:25.translate into the national scene. There is a debate about the
:27:25. > :27:30.lection, but that is above our pay grade. -- the election. I am happy
:27:30. > :27:34.to talk about it, but two years before the election, if they are
:27:34. > :27:38.still polling the extent to which they are now, of course, you guys
:27:38. > :27:44.are going to give them a huge voice. Should they be on the leadership
:27:44. > :27:50.debates? We do not know what form they will take. His views should be
:27:50. > :27:54.listened to, absolutely. Paul Nuttall, a final question to you,
:27:54. > :28:01.would you like your leader, Mr Farage, to be part of the leadership
:28:01. > :28:06.debates, if we have them in the 2015 campaign? Well, of course, it would
:28:06. > :28:09.be ridiculous if we won the European elections and were polling" is in
:28:09. > :28:15.2015, possibly even doubled the Liberal Democrats, and excluded from
:28:15. > :28:20.the leadership debate. That would suggest some thing is fundamentally
:28:20. > :28:26.wrong with our democracy. We will have to get another chair! Now, the
:28:26. > :28:29.trade unions have had a long association with the Labour Party.
:28:29. > :28:33.But has their influence increased in recent years? It was union votes
:28:33. > :28:37.that swung the leadership election for Ed Miliband, and the party
:28:37. > :28:43.relies heavily on union money for its funding. There are actors Asians
:28:44. > :28:53.that union backed candidates are getting favourable treatment in
:28:54. > :28:55.
:28:55. > :29:00.selection for MPs and MEPs. -- there unpopular Prime Minister, the battle
:29:00. > :29:05.between Blairites and Brownite still raw and active, some candidates,
:29:05. > :29:10.both good and mediocre, was simply swept aside. Rebuilding the party
:29:10. > :29:12.ahead of the Euro elections in 2014, there have urged voices that
:29:12. > :29:19.claim some have been excluded from standing under their party banner
:29:19. > :29:23.because they are missing something - the outright backing of a union. I
:29:23. > :29:30.think the criticism that has come from some in the party is that the
:29:30. > :29:34.trade unions are trying to take over, in some way, the selection
:29:34. > :29:39.process for the European elections. For me, that is not a particularly
:29:39. > :29:42.credible claim. A lot of fingers can be pointed that Labour Party
:29:42. > :29:46.selections, unions is just one part of a much more complex whole. The
:29:46. > :29:51.rules have not changed in recent years for Labour Party selections,
:29:51. > :29:54.these rules were put in place by Tony Blair. But I certainly think
:29:54. > :30:00.there is a much greater assertion on behalf of the trade unions that they
:30:00. > :30:04.want to have a bigger say in selections. Ramsay MacDonald's first
:30:04. > :30:08.Labour government of 1924 contained both the well-to-do and a worker,
:30:08. > :30:11.socialist intellectuals and the brightest union men, and like all
:30:11. > :30:19.parties, especially when they are facing calls of internal division,
:30:19. > :30:22.it has remained a broad church, which is why some are worried it is
:30:22. > :30:25.becoming less so under pressure from the union movement. If we are going
:30:25. > :30:29.to be a one nation party, that means governing for the whole community,
:30:29. > :30:33.and that includes working people, people in business. We need the
:30:33. > :30:38.energy and enterprise that very often businesspeople bring. Building
:30:38. > :30:45.that coalition is the way we won three general elections, we have to
:30:45. > :30:49.keep hold of that coalition. I'm not sure if union backed candidates are
:30:49. > :30:53.squeezing out other candidates. Why was backed by a lot of trade unions,
:30:53. > :30:55.but ultimately it comes down to which candidate convinces the
:30:55. > :31:00.hundreds of party members in a particular constituency that they
:31:00. > :31:04.should vote for them. It is one member, one vote. Unions can make
:31:04. > :31:07.nominations, certainly, but when it comes down to it, it is the local
:31:07. > :31:13.party members who will make a decision on who they think is the
:31:13. > :31:18.best person to be the candidate. suggestion is that the rules of
:31:18. > :31:21.selection for candidates, which give 13 weeks for canvassing members
:31:21. > :31:28.before the run-off, favour those who have financial backing. And
:31:28. > :31:33.canvassing structure, from a union. But however, no rules have been
:31:33. > :31:37.broken. There is a legitimate question to be asked about how we
:31:37. > :31:41.level the playing field so that people who do not have personal
:31:41. > :31:48.means or are not able to secure support financially from elsewhere,
:31:48. > :31:53.can compete on a level playing field. And string that question is
:31:53. > :31:57.tricky within Labour. With potential electoral consequences, as we
:31:57. > :32:03.found, unions and concerned would-be candidates are unwilling to state
:32:03. > :32:08.their case. Stella Creasy, can you get selected
:32:09. > :32:13.as a Labour candidate without union backing? Of course. There is a wide
:32:13. > :32:17.range of people. What is overwhelming if the number and range
:32:17. > :32:22.of people coming forward. It is heartening to see people do that. It
:32:22. > :32:27.is a difficult job. Seeing arrange of people, particularly the number
:32:27. > :32:32.of women who want to stand up is impressive. No one denies that women
:32:32. > :32:35.have done well under Labour in terms of selection and becoming MPs, but
:32:35. > :32:42.it does not answer the question, can you do it from whatever background
:32:42. > :32:45.you come from without union backing? Yes, you can, but it is difficult.
:32:45. > :32:47.The result was a debate between political parties about how you make
:32:47. > :32:57.sure you get the broadest and best range of people coming forward will
:32:57. > :33:01.stop am involved with the women's network which is looking at ways we
:33:01. > :33:06.can get more women to stand. It is not just coming for it, it is about
:33:06. > :33:11.time. Not everybody has it perfect, but is the union involved? It is a
:33:11. > :33:16.small part of a bigger picture. say it is small, but there is a
:33:16. > :33:21.perception, and it might be backed up by fact in certain
:33:21. > :33:26.constituencies, but actually the unions, as we have heard in that
:33:26. > :33:31.film, not only are the exercising muscle in her dad at -- at the early
:33:31. > :33:34.stages, but they want to exercising more. Of the perception that a
:33:34. > :33:41.politician has to be a man of a certain age in a suit. We are
:33:41. > :33:49.showing that that can be broken. I'll make no apology for the role of
:33:49. > :33:51.the trade unions. And you were backed by a trade union? No, I am
:33:52. > :33:59.from the cooperative part. Formerly, I was a labourer and co-operative
:34:00. > :34:02.MP. Before we carry on, we can join our viewers from Scotland, who are
:34:02. > :34:07.now watching the Daily Politics. are speaking about the involvement
:34:07. > :34:11.of unions in the selection of Labour candidates. Perceptions can be
:34:11. > :34:19.argued about but there is this specific and sample of an
:34:19. > :34:25.Fairweather -- specific example of an Fairweather, who was excluded.
:34:25. > :34:29.Crime seems to have been to have worked in business and not be one of
:34:29. > :34:34.the chosen candidates of the unions. Why was she left out?
:34:34. > :34:41.her and she was fantastic. fantastic enough. Understand more
:34:41. > :34:48.than 100 people applied. Frankly, some people would struggle to name
:34:48. > :34:56.their MEP, let alone their MP. did not have union backing? I know
:34:56. > :34:59.that that 100, many people did not. -- of that 100. I know London, and
:34:59. > :35:02.we now have eight fantastic candidates standing and there is an
:35:02. > :35:08.issue about where they come on the shortlist. There will always be
:35:08. > :35:11.questions about what role member state in the process. Actually, it
:35:11. > :35:16.is dismissive of her to say that she did not have something fantastic to
:35:16. > :35:21.give, and to say that the only thing that the people who did get it had
:35:21. > :35:27.was union membership. The trouble was there was a very high quality of
:35:27. > :35:32.people standing. Why does Peter Watt say that it is an old-fashioned
:35:32. > :35:36.stitch up? He's not going person from within Labour to say this.
:35:36. > :35:40.did not come from an union background. So he is wrong?I think
:35:40. > :35:46.in different places, there are allegations. There will always be
:35:46. > :35:52.concerns. What matters for me is that people like and get a chance.
:35:52. > :35:56.Let us look at the cost. How can you afford to do it unless you have
:35:56. > :35:59.backing, and you are someone with money themselves, personal means?
:35:59. > :36:07.You would have to have some sort of sponsorship. Absolutely. There is an
:36:07. > :36:10.issue about the cost. All political parties are struggling with that. We
:36:10. > :36:15.find within the labour women's network that if you have child care
:36:15. > :36:23.commitments, it is like going through many Christmases, were you
:36:24. > :36:27.meet a lot of relatives. You are talking to a lot of people and it is
:36:28. > :36:33.time it -- time intensive. And it is right that the unions fill that gap?
:36:33. > :36:36.And do not think that is the case. Some local areas do short
:36:36. > :36:40.selections, some do wrong selections. There will always be an
:36:40. > :36:43.issue about the role of any one organisation in a movement like the
:36:43. > :36:47.labour movement. There is a wider debate and I'm somebody who has
:36:47. > :36:50.always been supportive of the reform of that relationship. In terms of
:36:50. > :36:55.what you were talking about, you are talking about perception, not
:36:55. > :36:58.reality. The trade unions, if they really had as much influence as
:36:59. > :37:03.people in the media like to say, why do they always complain about their
:37:03. > :37:06.lack of influence? Well, they want even more influence, if you listen
:37:06. > :37:10.to them. In the case of the Conservative party, the
:37:11. > :37:15.Conservatives complain about influence from the unions endlessly
:37:15. > :37:19.about in terms of getting a broad range of people, it does not appear
:37:19. > :37:23.to have worked at Number Ten. The reality is that it is full of all
:37:23. > :37:28.the Taureans which has not been helpful to the perception of the
:37:28. > :37:33.Tory party. In the end, you had to have in a list. We are all about
:37:33. > :37:39.merit. We want the best possible candidates. Really, local
:37:39. > :37:43.collections are important. -- local connections. We have an open and
:37:44. > :37:49.rigorous process. And we have made enormous strides forward. I am part
:37:49. > :37:53.of the new 2010 intake and there is a huge server city of backgrounds.
:37:53. > :38:00.How many working-class candidates? What is a working-class person?
:38:00. > :38:05.tell me. Jacob Rees Mogg? I can tell you about the candidates that we
:38:05. > :38:10.have just selected. We have a boxing trainer, somebody who is a postman,
:38:10. > :38:17.we have small business people, veterinary surgeons, teachers. We
:38:17. > :38:19.have soldiers, charity workers. The a list has worked extremely well in
:38:19. > :38:23.the last Parliament and in this parliament were using different
:38:23. > :38:29.processes. Why are you not going for the a list again? The party has
:38:29. > :38:34.moved on. We did not have enough women in Parliament before 4010. And
:38:34. > :38:41.we really made such drives forward. That you do not need it? We built on
:38:41. > :38:46.that process. The grassroots get it. This CD broad range women that
:38:46. > :38:53.have come in, and they see the good job. We do not need that. They
:38:53. > :38:58.voluntarily choose the best possible candidates. -- they see the broad
:38:58. > :39:01.range. But you would not have needed to impose the a list if you trusted
:39:01. > :39:04.them to choose the right people. was about giving them a broad
:39:05. > :39:10.range. The Conservative party is always the choice of local people.
:39:10. > :39:18.Lorely Burt, you know that the record of the party is terrible in
:39:18. > :39:23.terms of numbers of women and ethnic naughty MPs. The Lib Dems... At
:39:23. > :39:27.least Labour have increased the numbers of women and so have the
:39:27. > :39:31.Conservatives. What are the Liberal Democrats going to do? We have a
:39:31. > :39:36.process where we train up people. Particularly from areas where we are
:39:36. > :39:42.missing. So women, people from poorer backgrounds, ethnic
:39:42. > :39:47.minorities, disabled people. Just about everybody, really, except for
:39:47. > :39:49.upper-middle-class white man. the areas where we are under
:39:49. > :39:59.represented. At the last general election we had some excellent women
:39:59. > :40:02.and ethnic minorities candidates, but not in safe seats. Safe seats
:40:02. > :40:11.are a challenge. If we had one of you seek, you would have seen a
:40:11. > :40:15.different picture stop -- one AQ seats. We are not funded by big
:40:16. > :40:21.business or unions, we are funded by our members. Would you like women
:40:21. > :40:28.shortlists? I would love it. But unfortunately we are too democratic,
:40:28. > :40:32.it is so annoying! We have managed all women shortlists completely
:40:32. > :40:36.voluntarily. Only one in five MPs are women and I
:40:36. > :40:39.cannot turn around to a community where 51% of people are women and
:40:39. > :40:43.say that Parliament gets it. Every political movement has you have this
:40:43. > :40:46.conversation about prejudice. We have had that and we have done
:40:46. > :40:53.something about it. We will support anyone else having a debate because
:40:53. > :40:56.we need to get to 50-50. completely agree. We have got
:40:56. > :41:02.agreement. We have an apology to make to Stella
:41:02. > :41:06.Creasy. We said earlier that ten people had been prosecuted for the
:41:06. > :41:11.minimum wage violations, and that turns out not to be true. We
:41:11. > :41:20.apologise. It was eight. And I'd apologise to you, Andrew, because I
:41:20. > :41:28.have missed red something. I stand corrected. -- Ms rent. Apologies all
:41:28. > :41:34.round. There is still time.Anyway, eight minimum rage violation
:41:34. > :41:37.prosecutions according to the HMRC document. I will go back and check
:41:37. > :41:41.what it was that made me think it was different and I will tweet you.
:41:41. > :41:45.Full disclosure. Life does not get better. The organisation which
:41:45. > :41:47.represents councils across England and Wales say that they risked
:41:47. > :41:52.failing their communities if further cuts are imposed. The Local
:41:52. > :41:59.Government Association has submitted their response ahead of the June
:41:59. > :42:03.Spending Review for 2015. They say that the council is having to make
:42:03. > :42:07.savings on average of �64 million in the calling on the government to end
:42:07. > :42:11.the ring fencing of health and schools budgets as well as removing
:42:11. > :42:15.the requirement to hold a referendum if you want to increase council tax
:42:15. > :42:19.by more than 2%. We're joined now by the vice-chair of the Local
:42:19. > :42:29.Government Association, a Labour council leader for Dudley. David
:42:29. > :42:35.Sparks joins us from Birmingham. Welcome. Now, councils overall will
:42:35. > :42:39.lose 2 billion a year from uncollected council tax. Another �2
:42:39. > :42:47.billion from fraud, and you have �16 billion of reserves, so what are you
:42:47. > :42:52.moaning about. Oh, dear. We cannot hear him. We cannot even hear if he
:42:52. > :42:56.is still mourning because I'm sorry, Mr sparks, and my viewers, we have
:42:56. > :43:01.lost the sense to Birmingham. David Sparks, I apologise. Could you say
:43:01. > :43:11.something, anything, so that we can work out if we can you do? No, we're
:43:11. > :43:12.
:43:12. > :43:21.not. All right. We will go back to Birmingham. Third time lucky, I'm
:43:21. > :43:25.told. David Sparks? Hooray! Let me ask you the question again. It is
:43:25. > :43:29.easier for you know you have time to think about it. You are losing �2
:43:29. > :43:35.billion a year from uncollected council tax, �2 billion from fraud
:43:35. > :43:39.and you have �16 billion in the bank, so what are you moaning about?
:43:39. > :43:44.We have collected 97% of council tax each year, which is far in excess of
:43:44. > :43:49.central government, which has 20 billion pounds in unpaid tax. In
:43:49. > :43:52.relation to the reserves, we have worked out that if we use the
:43:52. > :43:56.reserves to fund the gap that we have got, money would run out in
:43:56. > :44:01.five years. This is irrelevant in relation to the fundamental problem
:44:01. > :44:06.that we have, which is that in 2020, if current things carry on as they
:44:06. > :44:13.are, there will be a funding gap in this country of �16.5 billion in
:44:13. > :44:17.local government. But by 2020, we barely know what is quick to happen
:44:17. > :44:22.next year, let alone 2020. What is the situation going to be next
:44:22. > :44:29.year, in your view? The situation next year is that it will be the
:44:29. > :44:37.fourth year of a reduction of over 33%. Already, councils are in an
:44:37. > :44:40.extreme position. We have had to make massive cuts which we do not
:44:40. > :44:44.want to make. It is a tipping point now. The situation is going to be
:44:44. > :44:49.that councils throughout the country representing millions of people will
:44:49. > :44:54.be making further cuts, unless the government comes to its senses and
:44:54. > :44:59.finances local government sensibly. Is it true that you want to end the
:44:59. > :45:02.discount for council tax for single occupancy? We want to look at the
:45:02. > :45:06.old question of how much we raise in income in relation to local
:45:06. > :45:14.government. We have suggested to the government a range of suggestions in
:45:14. > :45:19.our contribution, so that we can increase the income and we can also
:45:19. > :45:24.make further economies and efficiencies in public sector
:45:24. > :45:34.funding across the community on the whole. Was that a yes or a no?We're
:45:34. > :45:34.
:45:34. > :45:39.still looking at it. This business of needing a referendum to increase
:45:39. > :45:43.council tax by more than 2%, I understand you wanted to raise it by
:45:43. > :45:49.more than 2%, but you found it was going to go down like a lead balloon
:45:49. > :45:53.with voters. No, quite the opposite, Dudley pioneered the way with our
:45:53. > :45:57.consultation with our electorate before we went to the question of a
:45:57. > :46:05.referendum. We had a situation where a quarter of the public in Dudley
:46:05. > :46:12.wanted to increase council tax by over 2%, but the majority wanted to
:46:12. > :46:17.keep it either the same, a frozen level... That was my point.We went
:46:17. > :46:22.along with what the public wanted, which is what we are supposed to do
:46:22. > :46:28.in a local democracy. You are making local councils pay for the
:46:28. > :46:32.Government's deficit-reduction. Sorry, I am asking the Conservative
:46:32. > :46:35.representative here. I have been a councillor, and it is tough for
:46:36. > :46:38.councillors. We have had to make cuts across government because we
:46:39. > :46:42.decided not to cut the NHS and education, and that does mean that
:46:43. > :46:47.there have been cuts, that local authorities are having to do things
:46:47. > :46:50.differently, but we also gave them a massive shift in power from
:46:50. > :46:54.Westminster to local communities to do things differently. And what I
:46:54. > :46:59.see is that some councils are grasping this opportunity, getting
:46:59. > :47:02.people around the table, actually improving services, while freezing
:47:02. > :47:07.or even, in some parts of the country, cutting council tax. What
:47:07. > :47:10.this gentleman did not mention was the new resources, all councils own
:47:10. > :47:16.their council houses, they keep all the revenue locally. Business rates
:47:16. > :47:19.have been localised, council tax benefit, the pupil premium, the new
:47:19. > :47:23.homes discount, all sorts of new income streams for councils. It is
:47:24. > :47:27.uncomfortable for some of them. Those who just want hands out from
:47:27. > :47:34.Westminster, they want that dependency, they are struggling with
:47:34. > :47:38.this. But once you love local democracy What do you say to that?
:47:38. > :47:42.Local authorities have had their budgets cut by 33%, central
:47:43. > :47:46.government has only cut by 10%, so it is not a fair share of the cards.
:47:46. > :47:50.In relation to local business tax, that is welcome in terms of being
:47:50. > :47:56.localised, but the Treasury are continually taking a huge chunk of
:47:56. > :48:01.the money. So having greater freedom to make more cuts is no freedom at
:48:01. > :48:07.all. You have also... You failed to mention the New Homes Bonus and the
:48:08. > :48:11.transfer of NHS money into adult social care. Munsell councils, most
:48:11. > :48:15.first-tier councils, their biggest responsibility is caring for
:48:16. > :48:23.people. -- most councils. Extra money is being passed from the NHS
:48:23. > :48:27.to councils, and these art of times, but we must prioritise... This is a
:48:27. > :48:35.separate budget, this is spoken for. This is extra money, in addition to
:48:35. > :48:38.that. No, it is not. Again, further inaccuracies. The fact of the matter
:48:38. > :48:43.is that the NHS budget is ringfenced. We would like to have
:48:43. > :48:46.greater access to that so we could have more economies. If local
:48:46. > :48:50.government had more money in relation to adult social care, there
:48:50. > :48:55.would be fewer people in beds in hospitals, and the hospitals would
:48:55. > :49:04.be more efficient. We are at cross purposes. The gentleman is right
:49:04. > :49:07.about the public health budget, that is not what I am talking about. This
:49:07. > :49:10.is about the integration of NHS and social care, social care budgets. I
:49:10. > :49:12.am really proud of my authority, they have not cut adult social care
:49:12. > :49:15.at all, they are working on new and innovative ways to make sure there
:49:15. > :49:20.is better care in the community, more joined up services with the
:49:20. > :49:29.NHS... There are areas which will have far greater social problems to
:49:29. > :49:34.deal with, and when... It is hard to imagine that in Cornwall...
:49:34. > :49:37.necessarily is populated as some of the other parts of the country.
:49:37. > :49:43.Prime Minister's own local government is getting an increase,
:49:43. > :49:46.and Liverpool, which most of us would recognise as a lot of
:49:46. > :49:50.problems, is getting an 8% cut in funding. It is disingenuous to
:49:50. > :49:55.suggest that local government is not bearing the brunt of these cuts.
:49:55. > :49:59.you agree with the cap on council tax rises? My council has managed to
:49:59. > :50:03.freeze it, but the bigger problem is that he is right when he talks about
:50:03. > :50:07.the problems they are facing. We are wasting a lot of money in our NHS. I
:50:07. > :50:11.am doing casework of people being discharged from hospital and social
:50:11. > :50:15.services not being told. If you take an approach just based on a budget,
:50:15. > :50:21.you make short-term decisions, like this government is making, with
:50:21. > :50:23.long-term, expensive costs. We need to be working... But let's be
:50:23. > :50:28.honest, under the Alistair Darling plan, spending for local government
:50:28. > :50:36.was to be cut as well. Correct? have been talking about whole person
:50:36. > :50:40.you want, but under the Alistair Darling plan, local government
:50:40. > :50:45.spending was to be cut. Everyone was clear that the deficit needed to be
:50:45. > :50:50.reduced, the question is how you do it, and this government is racking
:50:50. > :50:55.up costs. Well, yes, I understand that some councils are having
:50:55. > :51:02.difficulties, but we are introducing a damping process so that the worst
:51:02. > :51:07.hit councils will only be cut by a very small percentage, about 3% or
:51:07. > :51:11.less. That is not what Stella was saying about Liverpool. I will try
:51:11. > :51:18.to get this right, a 7% cut in funding, which is in contrast with
:51:18. > :51:20.Whitney getting an increase! Sparks, have you seen the
:51:21. > :51:26.Department's recommendations, 50 ways for councils to save money,
:51:26. > :51:32.have you tried any of these? We are trying everything we can, inventing
:51:32. > :51:35.new ways of saving money, but at the end of the day we will literally
:51:35. > :51:40.have 16.5 billion funding gap in the next couple of years, and that is
:51:40. > :51:43.something that is not going to go away. Thank you for joining us
:51:43. > :51:49.today. Sorry about the sound problems at the beginning there,
:51:49. > :51:53.thank you very much. Now, my microphone is working! For a
:51:53. > :51:56.few hours yesterday, politics was put to one side as the Queen opened
:51:56. > :51:59.a new session of Parliament with a speech in the Lords, and when MPs
:52:00. > :52:04.reassembled in the laws, proceedings began, as by tradition, would be
:52:04. > :52:13.humble address, a sort of after-dinner speech, this year
:52:13. > :52:16.proposed by Peter Luff and seconded Mr Speaker, it is a great honour to
:52:16. > :52:20.propose the loyal address, but the invitation from the Chief Whip to do
:52:20. > :52:24.so means I must accept an uncomfortable truth, that for 21
:52:24. > :52:32.years of service means I fit into the traditional role all too easily
:52:32. > :52:39.of old buffer! No, surely not!Way back in 1996, as I approached my
:52:39. > :52:42.first real election, my son at his father described in a BBC
:52:43. > :52:50.documentary as a middle-aged politician. That phrase resonated in
:52:50. > :52:54.his eight-year-old mind. For years after, birthday cards came to the
:52:54. > :52:57.acronym MAP, children certainly keep you grounded. I thought it was a
:52:58. > :53:07.premature description, but I have moved beyond that. I have decided to
:53:08. > :53:08.
:53:08. > :53:11.leave this place at the next election. Shame!I suspect the news
:53:11. > :53:15.of Sir Alex Ferguson's retirement will attract more interest in the
:53:15. > :53:25.outside world. Having just conducted my first rebellion in 21 years, and
:53:25. > :53:41.
:53:41. > :53:45.enough! I had not been anticipating to be offered this opportunity.
:53:45. > :53:50.Prime Minister and I were born within 48 hours of each other, and
:53:50. > :53:55.for the avoidance of doubt, he is the older of the two. I can see from
:53:55. > :53:58.this vantage point that genetics has been kinder than him than it has to
:53:58. > :54:04.me, particularly in the tonsorial Department, both in colour and
:54:04. > :54:10.cover. While our family and school circumstances were indeed quite
:54:10. > :54:13.different, we must have had similar cultural reference points and
:54:13. > :54:18.experiences in the 1970s and 1980s. I believe he was a fan of the
:54:18. > :54:28.Smiths, although I understand the feeling is not entirely mutual. I
:54:28. > :54:34.
:54:34. > :54:39.preferred Duranty ran -- Duran Duran and ABBA, with my favourite song
:54:39. > :54:43.being Dancing Queen, which will not come as a surprise! That leads me
:54:43. > :54:46.into the social reform of gay marriage. The right for same-sex
:54:46. > :54:51.couples to demonstrate their love and commitment to each other before
:54:51. > :54:55.family and friends will be a lasting social reform of this Parliament,
:54:55. > :55:03.the legislation is brought forward by this coalition government, but it
:55:03. > :55:05.is supported by members from all parties around the house. Bristol
:55:05. > :55:08.West has three Quaker meeting house is, a Unitarian chapel, and a reform
:55:08. > :55:13.synagogue, so I am sure that the country's first same-sex marriage
:55:13. > :55:19.may be on my own constituency, but personally, Mr Speaker, I am still
:55:19. > :55:29.waiting for my own Prince Charming, so I will not be able to take... I
:55:29. > :55:29.
:55:29. > :55:35.may be able to take advantage of ordinary people? If you listen to
:55:35. > :55:38.that, I think it has answered itself! Too often not, according to
:55:38. > :55:45.Liam Fox, who has called on the leadership to speak in the language
:55:45. > :55:48.of the pub. The Prime Minister made a good start yesterday morning when
:55:48. > :55:51.he realised that pubs might not be full of people discussing the
:55:51. > :55:55.Queen's Speech but the resignation of a certain football manager
:55:55. > :56:05.instead. Shortly after 2am yesterday, I will say that again,
:56:05. > :56:21.
:56:21. > :56:31.2am in the morning, he tweeted, Sir reference to the Aston Villa, like I
:56:31. > :56:36.
:56:36. > :56:46.am bothered! Showing he is down with time in the morning?! It is not
:56:46. > :56:55.
:56:55. > :57:01.after that, reminding the Labour lead that actually Mr Ferguson had
:57:01. > :57:05.not really died, he had just resigned! All right, so the party
:57:05. > :57:11.leaders are at least trying to get it, but how in touch are their MPs?
:57:11. > :57:15.Well, ladies, you will be pleased to know, oh, yes, we have got a little
:57:15. > :57:22.quiz to find out how in touch UI with popular culture! Stella, Lucky
:57:22. > :57:30.you, number one, how many convictions were there under the
:57:30. > :57:33.minimum wage... ? Stop it!You both got it wrong, actually! Who is not
:57:33. > :57:43.in the running to replace Alex Ferguson as the next manager of
:57:43. > :57:54.
:57:54. > :58:03.Mourinho. I grew up in Manchester, so they are my team. He was in the
:58:03. > :58:13.running. It is Steven Gerrard.We have got to move on, who is number
:58:13. > :58:22.
:58:22. > :58:25.guess number one. You are wrong, it is Daft Punk! Lorely Burt, we cannot
:58:25. > :58:35.let you go, which East Enders character is reportedly set to make
:58:35. > :58:45.
:58:45. > :58:50.made our point! Special thanks to our three guests, the one o'clock
:58:50. > :58:54.news is starting on BBC One. I will be back tonight for This Week on BBC