12/06/2013

:00:43. > :00:48.Politics. Do you feel squeezed? And I know I do. I blame Jo.

:00:48. > :00:53.Unemployment is down, but only by a little. And if you have got a job,

:00:53. > :00:57.the top boffins say the value of your pay packet has fallen more in

:00:57. > :01:01.the current economic downturn than ever before. William Hague is off to

:01:01. > :01:11.Washington to talk about Syria. Could relations with Russia get

:01:11. > :01:12.

:01:12. > :01:16.chilly? Will it be colder at PMQs or will it be hot, hot, hot? We will

:01:16. > :01:22.have the actioned at midday. We will have grunting, shunting and sweaty

:01:22. > :01:27.MPs on the programme too! I can hardy wait!

:01:27. > :01:34.All that and more in the next 90 minutes of value for money TV. There

:01:34. > :01:40.is no danger of closing us down! Don't hold your breath.

:01:40. > :01:43.I hope it doesn't give anyone ideas, Made in Chelsea and Towie eat your

:01:43. > :01:45.hearts out. We have Michael Howard joining us today and current Shadow

:01:45. > :01:48.Foreign Secretary, Douglas Alexander. Welcome to both of you.

:01:48. > :01:50.Thank you. Let's take a look at the economy

:01:50. > :01:56.because the latest unemployment figures were released this morning.

:01:56. > :02:03.They show the unemployment rate effectively unchanged at 7. 8%.

:02:03. > :02:08.There were 2. 51 million unemployed people in the quarter to April. Down

:02:08. > :02:12.5,000 from the previous year so only a little. But down 88,000 from a

:02:12. > :02:17.year earlier. A report today however by the Institute of Fiscal Studies

:02:17. > :02:21.says that UK workers have experienced an unprecedented fall in

:02:21. > :02:27.wages. They mean in real terms. A third of workers in the same job saw

:02:27. > :02:30.a wage cut or a freeze between 2010 and 2011. The IFS says that's

:02:30. > :02:37.because some people have been willing to accept less money in

:02:37. > :02:41.order to hold on to their jobs. And it has been a feature of this

:02:41. > :02:44.recession and current economic circumstances that wages have been

:02:44. > :02:50.flat, but unemployment has not risen by as much as many expected. Michael

:02:50. > :02:55.Howard, putting aside the economics of the pain of these freeze in

:02:55. > :02:58.living standards or cut in living standards causes, is it not a big

:02:58. > :03:03.political headache for the coalition to go into an election period with

:03:03. > :03:07.living standards still not rising? Well, we've two years to go before

:03:07. > :03:11.the election, but people understand what is happening all over the world

:03:11. > :03:15.and if you look at the figures today, of course, unemployment is

:03:15. > :03:21.far too high and we want it to come down, but compared with what is

:03:21. > :03:26.happening in the rest of Europe, we are doing relatively well and people

:03:26. > :03:30.understand that and 1. 3 million jobs have been recrated in the

:03:30. > :03:33.private sector since the last election. Three jobs in the public

:03:33. > :03:39.sector for every one lost in the public sector and I think people

:03:39. > :03:44.understand that there is a trade-off between accepting a real terms cut

:03:44. > :03:47.in wages and keeping your job or losing your job and for most people,

:03:47. > :03:52.it is a better deal to keep their job.

:03:52. > :03:56.What do you say to that, Douglas Alexander? I don't think it is a

:03:56. > :04:01.trade-off between willing to cut your wages and getting employment

:04:01. > :04:05.back. Of course, times are tough. And I felt when I looked at the

:04:05. > :04:09.figures they confirmed what we know. Both families are struggling to get

:04:09. > :04:14.by. But that we continue to have a significant unemployment crisis in

:04:14. > :04:18.the country. Of course, we welcome any small drop in unemployment, but

:04:18. > :04:23.unemployment today is higher than it was in 2010 and so we need to see

:04:23. > :04:26.measures that will get the economy moving forward because there is a

:04:26. > :04:31.correlation between a stagnant economy and the fact that

:04:31. > :04:35.unemployment is high. Compared to our European partners, the situation

:04:35. > :04:40.is not that bad? Well, it depends which countries you look at.

:04:40. > :04:47.Name me one and let's do it. The eurozone is facing difficulties.

:04:47. > :04:52.Even Germany, the IMF is saying we will grow twice as fast as gerpany

:04:52. > :04:57.this year -- Germany this year. no one is saying we are off to the

:04:57. > :05:02.races. This is the weakest recovery since economic statistics were

:05:02. > :05:08.invented. It is the politics of it that interests me. Labour has been

:05:08. > :05:12.able to do comparisons with other countries in which unfavourable to

:05:12. > :05:18.the record of the coalition. I'm just wondering if the terms of trade

:05:18. > :05:25.are beginning to change now and that comparisons in a general sense that

:05:25. > :05:31.recovery is underway are going to be to Labour's disadvantage.

:05:31. > :05:36.When Michael started, he said all around the world. From 20007 to

:05:37. > :05:42.2010, the Conservatives want wanted to imply this was the responsibility

:05:42. > :05:46.of Gordon Brown. So tough are the economic circumstances confronting

:05:47. > :05:51.George Osborne, every Conservative spokesman says, " It is difficult

:05:51. > :05:55.everywhere." Are global conditions tough? Of course, they are. But on

:05:55. > :05:59.the other hand, I would say if you look at the level of growth of the

:05:59. > :06:07.United States economy since the crash that there are lessons in

:06:07. > :06:11.terms of what is the right balance You know America as well as I do.

:06:11. > :06:17.Unemployment has not gone as high because of the flexibility of the

:06:17. > :06:22.labour market. I have never said it was all created

:06:22. > :06:30.by Gordon Brown. Of course, there was a worldwide economic crisis. Our

:06:30. > :06:35.problem was we were in a much less strong position to deal with it

:06:35. > :06:39.because of the situation over which Gordon Brown presided. Had we

:06:39. > :06:43.started saving during the good times asked in, I suggested we should in

:06:43. > :06:51.the 2005 general election, we would have been better erequest ipd to

:06:51. > :06:58.deal with the -- better equipped to deal with the downturn.

:06:58. > :07:02.Let me put this to you, Douglas Alexander - when the pollsters ask

:07:02. > :07:08.the question do you mean Ed Miliband and Ed Balls could manage the

:07:08. > :07:13.economy better than Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne, only 24% said they

:07:13. > :07:19.could. This month, it is down to 19%. What's happening? These numbers

:07:19. > :07:29.move around... They do, but always down. Of course, it will be tough

:07:29. > :07:29.

:07:30. > :07:35.for any leader or Shadow Chancellor to build confidence. Margaret

:07:35. > :07:39.Thatcher's numbers were below Jim Callaghan's. It didn't stop Margaret

:07:39. > :07:44.Thatcher becoming Prime Minister. Even Gordon Brown's numbers before

:07:44. > :07:49.1997 were below that of Ken Clarke's. So you are not worried?

:07:49. > :07:54.I'm not complacent. I am giving you two examples.

:07:54. > :07:58.I am not complacent. I have given you two examples of where one party

:07:58. > :08:00.has taken over in both cases because of the authority of Government is

:08:01. > :08:03.judged to be in a position of having credibility, but can lose the

:08:04. > :08:08.election. I the want to show you a clip from

:08:08. > :08:16.an interview I did on the Sunday Politics, don't worry, it is no the

:08:16. > :08:20.Alex Jones. This was an interview. George Osborne is going to announce

:08:20. > :08:23.his cap in two weeks time. Our plan is to include it.

:08:23. > :08:32.So pension spending would be included in the welfare cap? That's

:08:32. > :08:36.our plan. A straightforward answer. We were

:08:36. > :08:40.taken back because we don't often get them. Since then Labour said

:08:40. > :08:45.they would keep the pensions triple-lock which is a way of

:08:45. > :08:50.ensuring by various metrics that pensions go up by a descent amount,

:08:50. > :08:54.if not by one metric you chose a higher metric. Of how can you have

:08:54. > :08:57.pensions capped and support the triple-lock? Well, because pensions

:08:58. > :09:02.are going to be part of your long-term fiscal planning and you

:09:02. > :09:07.can set pensioners policy, but you need to have regard to the long-term

:09:07. > :09:10.fiscal sustainability. So the cap doesn't preclude you from having

:09:10. > :09:14.policy specific in relation to aspects of Government expenditure,

:09:14. > :09:17.but in that sense, that's the job of the Government which is to manage

:09:17. > :09:21.both your short-term commitments against your long-term

:09:21. > :09:24.sustainability. Mr Miliband told us the caps for the

:09:24. > :09:30.first three years, he with would cap welfare spending over three years.

:09:30. > :09:35.If you put a cap on welfare spending and it includes pensions, but you

:09:35. > :09:43.are obliged to increase pensions by about 2. 3%, if you are hitting the

:09:43. > :09:47.cap and you are obliged to increase pensions by it. T.5%, pensions are

:09:47. > :09:52.not included in the cap and you can have one or the other? The first

:09:52. > :09:55.year, the election will take place in year. Ed said we would accept the

:09:55. > :09:59.starting point of the Conservative numbers for the first year. In terms

:09:59. > :10:02.of the three year cap that follows, there is a process we will follow,

:10:02. > :10:05.not least to hear what George Osborne says when he brings forward

:10:06. > :10:09.his own cap, but we will set how to reconcile commitments that we make

:10:09. > :10:13.in relation to pensions and other areas of public expenditure in due

:10:13. > :10:18.course with a longer term fiscal horizon.

:10:18. > :10:25.Let me try one more time. I don't understand how you can say, " We

:10:25. > :10:31.will cap welfare spend ing and pensions will be included, but we

:10:31. > :10:36.will increase pensions by 2. 5% even if it means breaking the capmed."

:10:36. > :10:39.Well, in what circumstances did Ed say even if it means breaking the

:10:39. > :10:49.cap. He said we hold on to the triple-lock at present.

:10:49. > :10:52.

:10:52. > :10:54.At present? Well, that remains our policy. We will set out our policy

:10:54. > :11:04.position in the manifesto. Part of the manifesto will contain that cap

:11:04. > :11:07.which will take a three year horizon and these can be reconciled.

:11:07. > :11:13.You haven't reconciled this clear conflict and you will do that by the

:11:13. > :11:19.manifesto? You are not in a position to say individually as a policy,

:11:19. > :11:22.include policies on pensions. Michael Howard, there is pit falls

:11:22. > :11:24.in the road Labour is going down because all politicians are

:11:24. > :11:26.frightened of the grey vote because people vote, the older they are. But

:11:26. > :11:28.actually, isn't Labour being more realistic in saying if we are going

:11:28. > :11:30.to have overall caps, we are going to reduce public spending and old

:11:30. > :11:33.aged pensioners will have to be included? Well, Labour's numbers

:11:34. > :11:40.don't add up for the reasons you explained. But what Ed Balls and Ed

:11:40. > :11:45.Miliband have said, there is an interesting article in the Times in

:11:45. > :11:48.which what they have said has been analysed and says they have accepted

:11:48. > :11:53.the fundamental Conservative argument that you can't spend your

:11:53. > :11:58.way out of these difficulties. You can't spend your way out of the

:11:58. > :12:02.downturn and everything they have been saying over the last three

:12:02. > :12:08.years is nonsense when they have opposed every cut put forward.

:12:08. > :12:14.Yous don't agree. That's not an authoritarian voice on

:12:14. > :12:17.Labour's policies. Chief Executive of the NHS is up in

:12:17. > :12:23.front of the Public Accounts Committee today. He looks to have a

:12:23. > :12:29.tough time. Figures obtained by Steve Barclay, show hospital chefs

:12:29. > :12:33.paid a total of �2 million to 52 people in secret severance payments

:12:33. > :12:37.to whistle-blowers. This could contradicts sir David's evidence to

:12:37. > :12:41.the committee previously when he said he only knew of a one off

:12:41. > :12:45.payment. Well, joining me from the lobby is the MP who uncovered the

:12:45. > :12:50.figures, Steve Barclay. Thank you for coming on to the programme,

:12:50. > :12:52.Steve Barclay. Is this incompetence or conspiracy on the part of Sir

:12:52. > :12:56.David Nicholson? Well, it begs the question either he should have known

:12:56. > :13:01.and why didn't he? His deputy, lots of hospitals making these payments

:13:01. > :13:05.were aware of this. So why did the boss not know? Or he did know and it

:13:05. > :13:08.is even more worrying because it appears he hasn't been straight with

:13:08. > :13:13.Parliament and when he appeared before the committee last time he

:13:13. > :13:16.said he wasn't aware the garaway Walker case was a whistle-blower

:13:16. > :13:20.case and he had to correct his evidence because he admitted he had

:13:20. > :13:25.been told. Do you think this is a case hes can't remember? Well, it is

:13:25. > :13:28.not just that because he gave a commitment to investigate this and

:13:28. > :13:30.what the Department of Health statement last night confirmed was

:13:30. > :13:35.despite telling Parliament he would take this seriously, he would

:13:35. > :13:40.investigate whether indeed it was a one off, he did nothing about it. So

:13:40. > :13:46.why didn't he investigate it when he gave a commitment to part to do so?

:13:46. > :13:52.And on what basis did he ignore that undertaking. Jeremy Hunt decided the

:13:52. > :13:55.gagging clauses are going to be no longer, but in this particular case

:13:55. > :13:59.these were judicially mediated settlements and they go outside the

:13:59. > :14:02.remit of what the Government was talking about banning. How big do

:14:02. > :14:08.you think the problem is? Secretary of State deserves credit

:14:08. > :14:13.because he has put these within the remit. The loophole has been closed.

:14:13. > :14:23.Oh, he has? Jeremy Hunt acted quickly. The statement for

:14:23. > :14:23.

:14:23. > :14:29.Parliament which was not followed up. But the culture associated with

:14:29. > :14:32.Sir David Nicholson. The 2 million spds is a -- the �2 million is the

:14:33. > :14:38.tip of the iceberg. Seven hospitals are refusing to say how much they

:14:38. > :14:41.paid out through the secret payments. So the Secretary of State

:14:41. > :14:45.deserves credit. If we want to change the cull do you remember of

:14:45. > :14:48.the NHS -- culture of the NHS and have a culture where people are open

:14:48. > :14:52.and willing to speak out on patient safety issues, we have to look at

:14:52. > :14:54.the behaviour of Sir David and whether he is right for that new

:14:54. > :14:58.culture. Do you think his position is

:14:58. > :15:02.untenable? I thought it was untenable after Mid Staffs and I

:15:02. > :15:05.thought he should have gone then. He is in today before Parliament for

:15:05. > :15:09.the NHS IT programme, a programme that wasted billions of pounds of

:15:09. > :15:13.your viewers money and he was not just the accounting officer for that

:15:13. > :15:17.programme, he was the senior responsible owner for it. There is a

:15:17. > :15:21.catalogue of errors linked to Sir David and if we are going to change

:15:21. > :15:26.the culture of the NHS and take on board the lessons on Mid Staffs and

:15:26. > :15:34.the question is, is he the right man for another year to remain in his

:15:34. > :15:38.post? Steve Barclay, thank you very much. Michael Howard, should he just

:15:38. > :15:42.go now? I think we should wait to see what and says he has, if any, to

:15:42. > :15:46.the questions that Steve Barclay has eloquently post. Very serious

:15:46. > :15:49.questions, very serious situation. I have no idea what Sir David

:15:49. > :15:55.Nicholson would say in answer to those questions but we will see what

:15:55. > :15:57.he does. The two choices are either he didn't know and he should have

:15:57. > :16:03.known or he is part of the conspiracy. Let's wait and see what

:16:03. > :16:06.he says? What is your reaction? I agree with Michael, he should be

:16:06. > :16:14.able to give his cancers on the substantive issue on whether public

:16:14. > :16:21.money should be spent in terms of gagging orders --his cancers. We

:16:21. > :16:26.tried through the NHS Constitution to write in the prevention of this,

:16:26. > :16:29.but at the Francis report touched on this, at a local level and in

:16:29. > :16:33.individual trusts, there was a culture where this was acceptable,

:16:33. > :16:38.and there was a case put to us for Jeremy Hunt to look at how

:16:38. > :16:42.individual trusts are open to this and how much is being paid. Is it

:16:42. > :16:46.rather he didn't know about it and contradicted his own evidence? If

:16:46. > :16:51.you don't know, you don't know, you don't say there was a 1-off payment

:16:51. > :16:54.and then it is subsequently revealed there were 52 of these sorts of

:16:54. > :17:01.orders. Should the man at the top who presided over this, should he

:17:01. > :17:03.stay? I believe in the old maxim that she should afford somebody the

:17:03. > :17:06.opportunity to and set those questions before passing judgement.

:17:06. > :17:13.He will be before Parliament, let's hear what he has to say.

:17:13. > :17:23.Thank you. Now, William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, has been meeting

:17:23. > :17:24.

:17:24. > :17:30.the US Secretary of State John Kerry today to discuss the conflict in

:17:30. > :17:36.Syria. The UK Government has said President Bashar Assad must give up

:17:36. > :17:43.power to bring an end to the violence that has seen 80,000 people

:17:43. > :17:48.killed in the last two years and want to pave the way for a political

:17:48. > :17:51.transition. Washington is still struggling to organise a peace

:17:51. > :17:55.conference and President Obama has at his team to look at all the

:17:55. > :17:56.options. Michael Howard, should the West on the Syrian rebels? -- arm.

:17:56. > :18:02.It is a desperately difficult situation. I think we sometimes have

:18:02. > :18:05.to recognise that not every problem has a solution. I am not in a

:18:05. > :18:10.position to make the judgements that are necessary to give a yes or no

:18:10. > :18:15.answer to that question. I think William Hague was right to press for

:18:15. > :18:19.a European embargo to be lifted, so that arming the rebels is an

:18:19. > :18:22.option, and there may well be circumstances in which it would be

:18:22. > :18:29.right to use that option. Whether those circumstances have yet arisen,

:18:29. > :18:34.I just am not, I think, qualified to judge. It is a very, very difficult

:18:34. > :18:37.situation and the risk of broadening this conflict, of bringing in other

:18:37. > :18:46.states in the region, of having a kind of proxy war between Russia and

:18:46. > :18:50.the West, the risks are enormous, so this is an area where we have to be

:18:50. > :18:54.cautious. It might at some point be the right option but I can't judge

:18:54. > :19:01.whether we have reached that point. Your position, Douglas Alexander, is

:19:01. > :19:04.that we should not on the rebels. I'm not convinced by the arguments

:19:04. > :19:09.the Government has made. This is an appalling situation of human

:19:09. > :19:12.suffering and there are no easy options for William Hague, or in

:19:12. > :19:18.Washington back here in London, so I do not question the motives of the

:19:18. > :19:24.Government but I do the judgement of lifting the arms embargo at that

:19:24. > :19:28.point, because we were weeks away from this Geneva two conference, as

:19:28. > :19:32.it is called. One of the consequences of lifting the embargo

:19:32. > :19:37.is uncertainty in the mind of the rebels, if they don't turn up at the

:19:37. > :19:42.peace conference, they will be unable to secure Western arms in the

:19:42. > :19:48.future. There are concerns from the Russians themselves, and the kind of

:19:48. > :19:53.questions that we need and insisted that we have not heard, how can we

:19:53. > :19:59.guarantee these weapons and do we know the intents and the tactics of

:19:59. > :20:02.the rebels? How do we avoid a proxy war with Russia or Iran, fought out

:20:02. > :20:07.in Syria? And even worse to contemplate, sectarian war across

:20:07. > :20:12.the Middle East, because there is a sectarian aspect of this conflict

:20:12. > :20:19.now. But already they are worried in Jordan. Israel is beginning to feel

:20:19. > :20:22.the heat on the border. So we are there, aren't we? So I struggle to

:20:22. > :20:24.answer the question that the Prime Minister will need to answer in

:20:24. > :20:30.these circumstances, which is how will the provision of more

:20:30. > :20:34.sophisticated weaponry de escalate rather than escalate the conflict?

:20:34. > :20:38.And nobody doubts the seriousness of the situation. I have for many

:20:38. > :20:44.months argued that ultimately Russia is the key to this. Resident Assad

:20:45. > :20:50.is hugely reliant on Russia, not just in terms of diplomatic support

:20:50. > :20:54.but military as well. So I welcome the steps that John Kerry has taken

:20:54. > :20:56.in flying to Moscow. At the end of the day, if were going to see this

:20:57. > :21:00.conference happen, we need about the Russians and the Americans

:21:00. > :21:03.delivering both sides to this conflict. But people like you have

:21:03. > :21:09.been saying that for over two years and while you have gone on and on

:21:09. > :21:14.about diplomacy, it has failed 100% and 80,000 people have died. What do

:21:14. > :21:17.you say to a Syrian family that have been beleaguered by the dictator

:21:17. > :21:24.President Assad that you are not going to help them defend

:21:24. > :21:29.themselves? Syria is awash with arms at the moment, the idea that there

:21:29. > :21:34.are no weapons for the rebels in Syria is not true. You have to ask

:21:34. > :21:42.the question, do you want to be providing service to and missiles,

:21:42. > :21:47.anti-tank artillery and other equipment to a group of rebels --

:21:47. > :21:57.surface to air missiles push up today's good guys can all too easily

:21:57. > :22:00.come -- become tomorrow's wrongdoers. There seems to be two

:22:00. > :22:04.problems about sending arms, one is what Douglas Alexander just said, we

:22:04. > :22:07.are not sure who they might end up with and the second, I would suggest

:22:07. > :22:15.that the Kremlin has made it quite clear they will match whatever we

:22:15. > :22:20.send. Those difficulties are there. So I think there is only one point

:22:20. > :22:25.we all agree on, and we're not going to answer, the only point I disagree

:22:25. > :22:29.with Douglas on is I still think it was right to lift the EU embargo so

:22:29. > :22:34.the option remains, because all of the difficulties to which you refer

:22:34. > :22:39.are absolutely there and they are horrendous, but this is a rapidly

:22:39. > :22:43.changing situation, and there may be circumstances in which helping

:22:43. > :22:48.supply arms, some arms, to the rebels would be the right thing to

:22:48. > :22:53.do. I am not saying we have reached it yet. What would those

:22:53. > :22:58.circumstances be? Give me a sense, in your mind, what they would be?

:22:58. > :23:01.Hypothetically, you could arrive at a situation where a particular need

:23:01. > :23:06.was identified for a particular set of weapons which would actually help

:23:06. > :23:10.the rebels from being crushed. I am not saying it will exist, but it

:23:10. > :23:16.could. Let's follow the logic of that position. Even if Bashar

:23:16. > :23:19.al-Assad goes, and we all want him to go, the likely scenario is the

:23:19. > :23:23.continuation of the Civil War and the next chapter beginning. In that

:23:23. > :23:26.sense, we cannot get away from the fact that the only way you can have

:23:26. > :23:30.a sustainable Syrian state is ultimately through politics. The

:23:30. > :23:35.only way you can have any hope of getting to that politics is to bring

:23:35. > :23:44.the external factors in. You may never get to back to politics until

:23:44. > :23:50.the civil war has run its course. Bashar al-Assad was to go, it may

:23:50. > :23:54.transform the situation. It may not bring complete peace over tonight --

:23:54. > :24:03.overnight, but it may bring about change. But the Alawite will just

:24:03. > :24:06.fight the dead? They nowhere to go. I would hope they wouldn't. I am not

:24:06. > :24:14.saying all of the problems would disappear overnight, but it would be

:24:14. > :24:21.a huge change. It is a really difficult situation. It really is.

:24:21. > :24:25.He is rich, he is good-looking and they call him the Special one. Jose

:24:25. > :24:30.Mourinho arrived back at Chelsea this week and said he wanted a new

:24:30. > :24:37.nickname, the Happy one. But answer me this, is he really happy? How

:24:37. > :24:44.much more happy would he be with this? Yes, with this mug. You could

:24:44. > :24:49.look tanned, gorgeous, Portuguese and happiness. I think you need to

:24:49. > :24:55.read it over your head! There are still some copy in it. All you need

:24:55. > :24:58.to do is listen carefully to Jo. You can enter the Guess The Year

:24:58. > :25:08.competition in a minute but let's see if you can remember when this

:25:08. > :25:17.

:25:17. > :25:27.North Sea gas. The one pure stroke of luck the British economy has had

:25:27. > :25:30.

:25:30. > :25:40.in a century. Drop out of school, school education

:25:40. > :26:19.

:26:19. > :26:24.Per pound here in Britain and in # This is dedicated to the one I

:26:24. > :26:29.love. To be in with a chance of winning

:26:29. > :26:35.the Daily Politics mug, send your entry into the email address. You

:26:35. > :26:40.can see the full terms and conditions on the website.

:26:40. > :26:43.It is coming up to midday, let's have a look at the Big Ben. It is a

:26:43. > :26:52.grey day in London, it has been all week. Prime ministers questions is

:26:52. > :26:58.on its way and Nick Robinson is welcomed back. I noticed that they

:26:58. > :27:06.are now raising this issue of select committee chairman, which has come

:27:06. > :27:09.up because of Tim Yeo's position. Putting aside the Sunday Times

:27:09. > :27:12.sting, hasn't it has been the case that this man who chairs the

:27:12. > :27:17.renewable energy committee of the House of Commons also has full

:27:17. > :27:20.directorships in renewable energy. You may say that. I couldn't

:27:20. > :27:24.possibly comment. That is exactly what the Speaker and other people

:27:25. > :27:28.have been talking about, which is is it right that select committee

:27:29. > :27:33.chairs, who have a higher status than I did a few years ago, they get

:27:33. > :27:39.paid as well, is it right they should have external interests? It

:27:39. > :27:42.is not against the rules, but it is a conflict of interest. These are

:27:42. > :27:50.influential figures both in the questioning they can do people in

:27:50. > :27:56.business and in public life and the of subjects that are for select

:27:56. > :28:01.committees -- the choice of subjects. We are likely to see a

:28:01. > :28:04.change, Tim Yeo may be the last to have that many business interest.

:28:04. > :28:09.the last Labour Government, John McFall was chairman of the Treasury

:28:09. > :28:13.select committee, one of the most powerful select committees in the

:28:13. > :28:17.House of Commons. If he had been a director of Goldman Sachs at the

:28:17. > :28:24.same time, it would have been rather strange. Perfectly reasonably, it

:28:24. > :28:30.would have seemed strange. Having previously served as a minister, the

:28:30. > :28:33.ministerial code is extremely tough in terms of conflict and everything

:28:33. > :28:40.else and my senses the Speaker and others may look at the code of

:28:40. > :28:45.conduct the ministers, given the significant status and influence of

:28:45. > :28:49.chairs. Michael? I hope it is not an overreaction. I think the key point

:28:49. > :28:52.is there shouldn't be outside interest related to the select

:28:52. > :28:55.committee. The chairman of the select committee is a director of a

:28:56. > :28:59.company that has nothing to do with his select committee, I don't see

:28:59. > :29:02.anything wrong with that as long as it is properly declared, but I do

:29:03. > :29:05.think it is difficult for the chairman of a select committee, or

:29:05. > :29:12.perhaps even a member of a select committee, to have an outside

:29:12. > :29:19.interest which is directly related to that. And for which they are

:29:19. > :29:21.remunerated? Well, the members are not the chairman. No, I mean

:29:22. > :29:26.remunerated by the outside interest. Prime Minister's Questions coming

:29:26. > :29:32.up, we don't have many these days, two in a row, like a London bus!

:29:32. > :29:36.are being spoiled. I think it will be intriguing to see if it is the

:29:36. > :29:38.opposition leader's questions, David Cameron used the last one to try and

:29:38. > :29:43.question Ed Miliband on child benefits and what Labour were saying

:29:43. > :29:46.about their spending priorities. I won't be surprised if the Prime

:29:46. > :29:51.Minister raises the interview you did with the shadow Chancellor Ed

:29:51. > :29:57.Balls in which he seemed to suggest he would cap pension spending. The

:29:57. > :29:59.Tories see that as an own goal and I think what David Cameron would like

:29:59. > :30:07.to exploit is that, with unemployment going down, he will

:30:07. > :30:14.raise the fact that one of the reasons it might be under control is

:30:14. > :30:16.the fact that people are taking a real hit in their pay packets and

:30:16. > :30:23.people are having their real income squeezed and their standards of

:30:23. > :30:26.living squeezed, and therefore it might not be so such good news for

:30:26. > :30:34.people. It is difficult for politicians on the right and the

:30:34. > :30:36.left, to say we should have more rise in wages, but there might be

:30:37. > :30:42.more unemployment. Or people should actually take a cut in living

:30:42. > :30:51.standards. But more people will be in jobs, it is a Catch-22. It is,

:30:51. > :30:56.but Labour will want to say, that is hurting people and if there are

:30:56. > :31:03.additional things Government are doing, row prices and energy prices

:31:03. > :31:07.and so on, which are adding to that sense of a squeeze on peoples

:31:07. > :31:17.standards of living, that is uncomfortable for them and bad for

:31:17. > :31:20.

:31:20. > :31:24.incompetent management of the NHS, 256,000 patients were forced to wait

:31:24. > :31:28.in the back of ambulances as accident and imagine departments

:31:28. > :31:34.couldn't admit them. Why does the Prime Minister think the best way to

:31:34. > :31:39.deal with this is to fine hospitals �90 million for his Government's

:31:39. > :31:43.failure? But what this Government is doing is putting �12. 7 billion

:31:43. > :31:46.extra into the NHS, money that would be cut by the party opposite and

:31:46. > :31:52.because of that extra money and because of the reforms, waiting

:31:52. > :31:56.times are down, waiting times for inpatients and outpatients are both

:31:56. > :32:06.down, hospital acquired infections are down, a mixed sex wards have

:32:06. > :32:14.

:32:14. > :32:17.been abolished in our NHS, that's a record we can be proud of.

:32:17. > :32:27.INAUDIBLE Can he confirm that the Conservative

:32:27. > :32:33.

:32:33. > :32:34.Party's commitment to renegotiation and a referendum and has he...

:32:34. > :32:43.and a referendum and has he... and a referendum and has he...

:32:43. > :32:48.INAUDIBLE On behalf of the whole House can I

:32:48. > :32:51.welcome my honourable friend back to the House of Commons? And it is good

:32:51. > :32:56.to see him making a strong recovery and being in such strong voice

:32:56. > :33:03.today, as well, Mr Speaker. He makes an important point, on this side of

:33:03. > :33:06.the House, well in this party, we are committed in an in/out

:33:06. > :33:09.referendum before the end of 2017, but there has been a staggering

:33:09. > :33:14.silence from the party opposite. Half of the Shadow Cabinet support a

:33:14. > :33:20.referendum and the other half the don't. Well, they will have their

:33:20. > :33:23.chance on 5th July, they can turn up and vote for a referendum in the

:33:23. > :33:28.United Kingdom. THE SPEAKER: Mr Ed Miliband.

:33:28. > :33:33.On Syria, the Prime Minister has our support to use the G 8 to push all

:33:33. > :33:37.members to provide humanitarian assistance to alleviate the crisis

:33:37. > :33:42.that is happening there, but on the arms embargo, he said last week and

:33:42. > :33:47.I quote "if we help to tip the balance in that way, there is a

:33:47. > :33:50.greater chance of political transition succeeding." Given that

:33:50. > :33:54.Russia seems ready to supply more weapons to Syria, does the Prime

:33:54. > :33:59.Minister think it is in any sense realistic for a strategy of tipping

:33:59. > :34:04.the balance to work? Well, first of all, can I thank him for raising

:34:04. > :34:07.this issue and say he is right, we should use the G 8 to try and bring

:34:07. > :34:12.pressure on all sides to bring about what we all want in this House which

:34:12. > :34:16.is a peace conference, a peace process and a move towards a

:34:16. > :34:21.transitional Government in Syria. I am delighted to tell the House

:34:21. > :34:23.President Putin will be coming in advance of the he G 8 for meeting in

:34:23. > :34:28.Downing Street when we can discuss this. It is important because we

:34:28. > :34:32.have recognised that the Syrian national opposition are legitimate

:34:32. > :34:36.spokes people for the Syria people. It is important we help them. We

:34:36. > :34:41.give them technical assistance and training and advice and assistancele

:34:41. > :34:45.all those things we are doing and that does tip the balance to make

:34:45. > :34:49.sure that President Assad can see he cannot which this by military means

:34:49. > :34:54.alone and he should be at the negotiations which should take place

:34:54. > :34:57.for a transitional Government. My question was specifically on the

:34:57. > :35:03.liftings of the arms embargo and the supply of weapons to the Syrian

:35:03. > :35:08.rebels. How, last week, he also told this House, and I quote, " Clr

:35:08. > :35:13.safeguards to ensure that any such equipment would only be supplied for

:35:13. > :35:16.the protection of civilians." Can he tell us what safeguards those are?

:35:16. > :35:22.And how in Syria, they would be enforced? Well, first of all, let me

:35:22. > :35:25.try and say again about the arms embargo, the point about lifting the

:35:25. > :35:29.arms embargo which applied to the both the regime and the official

:35:29. > :35:34.Syrian opposition is to send a message about our intentions and

:35:34. > :35:41.about our views to President Assad, but we have not made a decision to

:35:41. > :35:45.supply the Syrian opposition reque -- with weapons, we are giving them

:35:45. > :35:49.advice and technical help and we have systems in place to answer his

:35:49. > :35:51.second question to make sure that sort of non-lethal equipment like

:35:51. > :35:56.transport and things like that doesn't get into the wrong hands. Of

:35:56. > :36:00.course, we do. THE SPEAKER: Ed Miliband.

:36:00. > :36:07.things. Look, first of all, we all support the idea that he we should

:36:07. > :36:11.focus on the peace conference and making the peace conference happen.

:36:11. > :36:16.The Government has put its energy into the lifting of the arms embargo

:36:16. > :36:21.and not in the peace conference. I quoted hisses words, no the about

:36:21. > :36:25.non-lethal equipment, but about the supply of lethal equipment. Now, he

:36:25. > :36:29.gave an assurance to this House, in the circumstances of supplying

:36:29. > :36:32.lethal equipment there would be safeguards and the question was what

:36:32. > :36:37.would those safeguards be and I didn't hear an answer and maybe he

:36:37. > :36:41.can tell us that and will he when he replies confirm that if he takes a

:36:41. > :36:45.decision to arm the rebels in Syria, there will be a vote of this House

:36:45. > :36:51.on a substantive motion in Government time with a recall of

:36:51. > :36:55.Parliament from recess if necessary? First of all, on this issue of the

:36:55. > :37:00.peace conference, we all want to see a peace conference come about, the

:37:00. > :37:03.question is how are we most likely to put pressure on the parties to

:37:03. > :37:06.attend the peace conference? Going back to the first thing he said

:37:06. > :37:11.about the Russian decision to arm the regime, the Russian regime has

:37:11. > :37:17.been arming this regime for decades and frankly, it is naive to believe

:37:17. > :37:20.anything else. That, I think, is important. On the issue of

:37:20. > :37:24.safeguards, we are not supplying the opposition with weapons. We are

:37:24. > :37:28.supplying them with technical assistance and non-lethal equipment.

:37:28. > :37:34.We made no decision to supply the opposition with weapons, so that is

:37:34. > :37:38.the answer to that issue. On the issue of this House of Commons, as

:37:38. > :37:41.the Foreign Secretary made clear, as I have made clear, I have always

:37:41. > :37:45.believed in allowing the House of Commons to say -- a say on these

:37:45. > :37:50.issues. I think that was right when it came to Iraq. It was right when

:37:50. > :37:56.we made the decision to help the opposition in Libya and it would be

:37:56. > :38:00.right in the future for that to it to happen. We have made no decision

:38:00. > :38:05.to arm the rebels in Syria. On the Government plan to double the

:38:05. > :38:09.size of our reserve forces, has the Prime Minister considered the role

:38:09. > :38:13.retired Ghurkhas might play in this? How they are allowed to settle here,

:38:13. > :38:17.many gush cas said they would welcome an ongoing connection with

:38:17. > :38:25.the British Army, but there is no tradition of recruiting them. It

:38:25. > :38:29.won't happen by magic, would he authorise an initiative to cre cut

:38:29. > :38:34.them? One of the p ways we can build up this larger reserve we want to

:38:34. > :38:38.see funded and fully equipped at 30,000, is to make sure those who

:38:38. > :38:43.served in the regular Army, that we have better opportunities for them

:38:43. > :38:46.to serve in the reserves and the point he made about the gur das cas,

:38:47. > :38:51.I am -- Ghurkhas, I am sure the Defence Secretary will look at that

:38:51. > :38:54.and see what can be donement of I don't know if the Prime Minister

:38:54. > :39:00.watched Panorama's programme on Monday night, but I'm sure he will

:39:00. > :39:03.be aware of the subject. The programme confirmed what many of

:39:03. > :39:08.youing us already knew that thousands of people in this country

:39:08. > :39:12.have been subjected to blacklisting. It has been compared to McCarthyism.

:39:12. > :39:18.I think it is worse Than that. It is secretive and it is behind closed

:39:18. > :39:22.doors and many people who run a -- who are on a blacklist don't know

:39:22. > :39:28.they are on a blacklist. Can I ask the Prime Minister to call for an

:39:28. > :39:31.urgent inquiry into this practise which I refer to not as McCartism,

:39:31. > :39:35.but as McAlpinism. I didn't see the Panorama on Monday

:39:35. > :39:44.night. I will ask for a report on it, but the Government not only does

:39:44. > :39:49.not support blacklisting, but has taken action against it.

:39:49. > :39:55.Can I thank the Prime Minister for his recent visit to my constituency

:39:55. > :39:59.to support the furniture making industry. The hard-working staff he

:39:59. > :40:04.made are best helped into these tough times by protecting their

:40:04. > :40:11.pensions and capping benefits rather than by protecting benefits and

:40:11. > :40:14.cutting pensions as the party opposite would do. I well remember

:40:14. > :40:18.my visit to my honourable friend's constituency. What people want to

:40:18. > :40:21.know in this country is we're going to cap welfare and get on top of

:40:21. > :40:28.welfare bills, but protect pensioners who have worked hard all

:40:28. > :40:31.their lives and I've done a little bit of due diligence on the the

:40:31. > :40:35.party opposite's policy. They announced they wanted a welfare cap

:40:35. > :40:41.and I thought that's interesting, that's progress. Would they cap the

:40:41. > :40:45.welfare bill for those in work? they would not. Would they cap

:40:45. > :40:51.housing benefit? No, they wouldn't. The one thing they want to cap

:40:51. > :40:54.pensions is pension -- the one thing theys want to cap is pensions. Of

:40:54. > :41:04.more of the something for nothing culture that got this country in a

:41:04. > :41:07.mess in the first place. THE SPEAKER: Mr Ed Miliband.

:41:07. > :41:13.Speaker, today's fall in unemployment of 5,000 is welcome.

:41:13. > :41:16.But can the Prime Minister explain why today's figures also show that

:41:16. > :41:20.three years into his Government, living standards are continuing to

:41:21. > :41:24.fall? Well, first of all, I think it is

:41:25. > :41:28.worth actually announcing to the House what the unemployment figures

:41:28. > :41:33.today show because they show employment, the number of people in

:41:33. > :41:37.work, in our country going up. They show unemployment going down. And

:41:38. > :41:43.they show, I know the party opposite don't want to hear good news, but I

:41:43. > :41:46.think it is important we hear it. And the claimant count, the number

:41:47. > :41:50.of people qlaming unemployment benefit -- claiming unemployment

:41:50. > :41:55.benefit has fallen for the seventh month in a row. What is interesting

:41:55. > :42:00.is over the last year, while we've lost 100,000 jobs in the public

:42:00. > :42:05.sector, we've gained five times that amount in private sector employment.

:42:05. > :42:12.The figures do show some increase in wages, but obviously, real wages

:42:12. > :42:15.have been under huge pressure ever since the boom and bust under which

:42:15. > :42:19.his presided. Bau what is good for people is that under this

:42:19. > :42:23.Government, we're cutting their income tax this year.

:42:23. > :42:26.THE SPEAKER: Ed Miliband. There speaker, he is into his fourth year

:42:26. > :42:30.as Prime Minister and his excuse for falling living standards is don't

:42:30. > :42:36.blame me, I am only the Prime Minister! It is not good enough and

:42:36. > :42:40.if he doesn't understand that because of his failure to get growth

:42:40. > :42:45.in the economy, wages are falling for ordinary people. He wants to

:42:45. > :42:49.tell them they are better off, butle actually they are -- but they are

:42:49. > :42:54.worse off. Can he confirm that today's figures show after

:42:54. > :43:00.inflation, since he came to power, people's wages have fallen on

:43:00. > :43:05.average by over �1300 a year? you might have noticed the figures

:43:05. > :43:12.announced by the institute Institute for Fiscal Studies are from 2008

:43:12. > :43:16.when he was sitting in the Cabinet. While he was Energy Secretary, the

:43:16. > :43:21.economy got smaller. This shrank month after month after month. Under

:43:21. > :43:26.this Government, we see over 1. 25 million more private sector jobs. A

:43:26. > :43:30.good growth in private sector employment this year. That is what

:43:30. > :43:36.is happening. Of course, living standards are under pressure and

:43:36. > :43:42.that is why we are freeze freezing council tax. Look, the Shadow

:43:42. > :43:47.Chancellor is shouting away as ever. Perhaps...

:43:47. > :43:52.THE SPEAKER: Excessive noise in the chamber. Members must not shout at

:43:52. > :43:57.the Prime Minister anymore that anyone should shout at the Leader of

:43:57. > :44:00.the Opposition. There are 1. 25 million more private sector jobs

:44:00. > :44:04.under this Government and that's a good record.

:44:04. > :44:07.No answer from this Prime Minister on the living standards crisis that

:44:07. > :44:11.is facing families up and down the country. And you know, it is no

:44:12. > :44:15.wonder what his side are saying about him. This is what the

:44:15. > :44:19.honourable member for Leicestershire north-west wrote about him at the

:44:19. > :44:23.weekend. I know they don't want to hear it, it is like being in an

:44:23. > :44:29.aeroplane. The pilot doesn't know how to land it. We can either do

:44:29. > :44:33.something about it or sit back, watch the inflight movies and wait

:44:33. > :44:41.for the inevitable." I couldn't have put it better myself about this

:44:41. > :44:48.Prime Minister. The reality is this - day in, day out, what people

:44:48. > :44:53.see... Just calm down. Just calm down. Day in, day, the crimson tide

:44:54. > :44:58.is back. What people see is prices rising, wages falling, while the

:44:58. > :45:01.Prime Minister tells them they are better off. Hes claims the economy

:45:01. > :45:08.is healing, but for ordinary families, life is getting harder.

:45:08. > :45:14.They are worse under the Tories. Only someone who wants to talk down

:45:14. > :45:17.our economy could pick a day like today. More people in work.

:45:17. > :45:22.Unemployment down. Youth unemployment down. The claimant

:45:22. > :45:30.count down, not one word of respect for that good agenda on jobs. Now,

:45:30. > :45:33.he talks about aeroplanes, he talks about aeroplanes, the former Home

:45:33. > :45:36.Secretary, never mind getting on aeroplanes, this is what he said

:45:36. > :45:42.about the right honourable gentleman's leadership. He said

:45:42. > :45:52.this. "We are going nowhere. He hasn't got on the aeroplane because

:45:52. > :45:53.

:45:53. > :45:58.he hasn't got a clue. Last December, the whole lot

:45:58. > :46:04.Shropshire welcomed the Government support for a new direct rail link

:46:04. > :46:09.from Shropshire to London. However, this week, network rail have blocked

:46:09. > :46:16.virgin's bid. Does the Prime Minister agree with me that Network

:46:16. > :46:21.Rail should not get in the way of Shropshire people and economic

:46:21. > :46:26.progress. We want to see more direct links like the one who speaks and

:46:26. > :46:33.more direct links to Lancashire and Blackpool. One of the issues the

:46:33. > :46:36.rail network is battling with is a short bus of capacity and that will

:46:36. > :46:38.bring more capacity to make more of these direct links possible and I

:46:38. > :46:44.was discussing this with the transport secretary yesterday and we

:46:44. > :46:47.should make progress. Last week, the Prime Minister could not confirm

:46:47. > :46:52.that taxpayers would not subsidised foreign buyers property in the UK.

:46:53. > :47:00.Perhaps he could instead clarify whether his help to buy scheme will

:47:00. > :47:03.see taxpayers help fund purchases of second homes on holiday cottages?

:47:03. > :47:08.Let me try and give the honourable lady some satisfaction. First of

:47:08. > :47:12.all, this scheme is for people's only home, it will have a mechanism

:47:12. > :47:19.in place to make sure that is the case. The second thing is, of

:47:19. > :47:29.course, which is important, is that in order to take part in this

:47:29. > :47:31.

:47:31. > :47:39.scheme, you have to have a As a former pensions manager, I was proud

:47:39. > :47:44.that this Government announce... THE SPEAKER: This is very

:47:44. > :47:52.discourteous, let's see what the honourable gentleman has to say.

:47:52. > :47:54.Thank you Mister Speaker. As a former pensions minister, I was very

:47:54. > :48:00.proud when this Government introduced a triple lock on the

:48:00. > :48:03.state pension which increased by �234 in its first year to every

:48:03. > :48:07.pensioner in the land. Does the Prime Minister share my concern that

:48:07. > :48:12.under the shadow Chancellor's plans to cut or cap pensions, all of our

:48:12. > :48:17.pensioners will lose that increase and their standard of living will

:48:17. > :48:20.fall sharply? I think my honourable friend is absolutely right. What we

:48:20. > :48:23.have done under this Government is but a cap on welfare that families

:48:23. > :48:26.can receive but have been as generous as we can with pensioners

:48:26. > :48:31.who have worked hard during their lives and want to have dignity and

:48:31. > :48:34.security in old age, that is why we have the triple lock. And because we

:48:34. > :48:39.now know that the party opposite want to cut the pension, because

:48:39. > :48:45.they are putting a cap on pensions but not welfare, just this morning,

:48:45. > :48:51.the shadow Foreign Secretary was on television this morning challenged

:48:51. > :48:55.about the triple lock and said it was their policy at present. At

:48:55. > :49:01.present. Given all of the U-turns we have had in the last week from the

:49:01. > :49:07.party opposite, I don't think that will last a very long. Wilbur Prime

:49:07. > :49:14.Minister congratulate Bolton Wanderers football club for doing

:49:14. > :49:21.the right thing by rejecting sponsorship from a payday loan firm?

:49:21. > :49:24.And will he also joining and do the right thing --join in and do the

:49:24. > :49:29.right thing and give local authorities the power to ban these

:49:29. > :49:33.predatory loan sharks from our high streets? I hear absolutely what he

:49:33. > :49:37.says and I wish Bolton Wanderers well for their future. What I would

:49:37. > :49:40.say we need to do is give more support to credit unions in this

:49:40. > :49:44.country and that is one of the best ways of addressing this whole

:49:44. > :49:47.problem of payday loans and payday lending. I also hope he will welcome

:49:47. > :49:55.the fact that over the last year, unemployment has fallen fastest in

:49:55. > :49:59.the north-west of our country. is National carers week, Wilbur

:50:00. > :50:04.Prime Minister join me in paying tribute -- Wilbur Prime Minister

:50:04. > :50:14.join the... THE SPEAKER: Order. If the session

:50:14. > :50:14.

:50:14. > :50:18.has to be extended to accommodate the rights of members, it will be

:50:18. > :50:23.extended. Thank you, Mister Speaker. Wilbur

:50:23. > :50:28.Prime Minister join me in paying tribute to the huge commitment that

:50:28. > :50:32.carers make day in day out for caring for frail family members,

:50:32. > :50:40.friends and partners, often without financial assessment and sign up to

:50:40. > :50:44.the recommendations of Prepared To Care? I think the honourable member

:50:44. > :50:48.speaks for the whole house and the whole country in embracing

:50:48. > :50:52.Britain's carers, they did an amazing job and if they stopped, the

:50:52. > :50:55.cost to the taxpayer would be phenomenal, so we should do what we

:50:55. > :51:01.can to support our carers and make sure they get the proper respite

:51:01. > :51:04.breaks they need to carry on doing the wonderful work they do. Why have

:51:05. > :51:12.the numbers of supply teachers in secondary schools in the last year

:51:12. > :51:17.increased by a staggering 17%? not have the figures for that, but

:51:17. > :51:20.what I would say is that we have protected the amount of money that

:51:20. > :51:28.goes into schools per pupil so that schools do have the money to employ

:51:28. > :51:38.the teachers they need. Since 2010, unemployment and Brentford and I of

:51:38. > :51:40.

:51:40. > :51:47.work has fallen by 6.9%. And youth unemployment has fallen by 19%. Does

:51:47. > :51:51.this not show that our economic plan is working? I think the honourable

:51:51. > :51:56.lady is absolutely right. We see today a growth in employment, a fall

:51:56. > :52:00.in youth unemployment and most importantly, yes, we are losing jobs

:52:00. > :52:05.in the public sector, because we had to make cuts to the public sector,

:52:05. > :52:09.but while we lost over 100,000 jobs in the last year, we have gained

:52:09. > :52:12.five times as many as that in the private sector. The shadow

:52:12. > :52:16.Chancellor as ever wants to give a running commentary. Let me just

:52:16. > :52:20.remind the House what he said, because I think this is one of the

:52:20. > :52:22.most important quotations in the last ten years of British politics.

:52:22. > :52:31.Quote-macro do I think the last Labour Government was profligate and

:52:31. > :52:39.spent too much? No, I don't think there is any evidence about". That

:52:39. > :52:43.phrase will be hung around his neck forever. 500 homes in my

:52:43. > :52:47.constituency were flooded in November. Residents in my

:52:47. > :52:50.constituency are terrified that their homes and businesses are now

:52:50. > :52:55.worthless because this Government has failed to replace the flood

:52:55. > :52:59.insurance scheme. It is also cutting over �200 million from flood defence

:52:59. > :53:05.works. Why is this Prime Minister selling my constituency down the

:53:05. > :53:09.river? I can give the honourable gentleman some welcome news, which

:53:09. > :53:13.is we had to extend the period of the scheme so we could continue

:53:13. > :53:16.negotiations, but I am confident that we will put in place a proper

:53:16. > :53:26.successor to that scheme and an announcement will be made quite

:53:26. > :53:29.

:53:29. > :53:33.soon. The company in my constituency made lava lamps and have been making

:53:33. > :53:36.them for 50 years and make very large exports to Germany. They have

:53:36. > :53:39.run into a problem with a reclassification of the product and

:53:39. > :53:45.I wonder if I could send all of the information to the Prime Minister

:53:45. > :53:50.and end list his support for this very innovative company operating so

:53:50. > :53:54.well within our country? I am very happy to receive the information

:53:54. > :54:01.from my honourable friend. It is important that we get British

:54:01. > :54:11.exports up. If we move from one in five of our small businesses to one

:54:11. > :54:12.

:54:12. > :54:15.in four exporter, that will wipe out the trade deficit. The accident and

:54:15. > :54:19.emergency at Ealing Hospital is one of four he is closing in north-west

:54:19. > :54:27.London, so I welcome the Health Secretary's review, but with waiting

:54:27. > :54:29.times at a nine-year high, ambulances being diverted and the

:54:29. > :54:37.risk of death, will he acknowledged that these closures are not a

:54:37. > :54:46.serious option if the NHS is safe in his hands? The point I would make,

:54:46. > :54:51.as he knows, the Health Secretary has asked the IRP to submit a full

:54:51. > :54:55.review of the proposals. Whatever decision is reached, these proposals

:54:55. > :54:59.are not due to a lack of central Government funding, because

:54:59. > :55:03.north-west London will receive �3.6 billion this year, that is �100

:55:03. > :55:08.million more than a year before, and if we had listened to the Labour

:55:08. > :55:18.Party, who said that more NHS spending was irresponsible, then his

:55:18. > :55:19.

:55:19. > :55:22.hospitals will be having �100 million less. Will the the Prime

:55:22. > :55:29.Minister join me in congratulating the China Britain business Council

:55:29. > :55:32.and its inspirational vice-chairmen for organising a seminar which more

:55:32. > :55:37.than 60 businesses in Watford attended last Friday about exporting

:55:37. > :55:42.to China? I think they should be congratulated on this initiative.

:55:42. > :55:46.am very happy to extend my praises to the business Council. If we look

:55:46. > :55:50.at the evidence over the last few years, there is a significant

:55:50. > :55:54.increase of British exports to China and a big increase of Chinese direct

:55:54. > :56:00.investment into the UK, and all of this is welcome and we need to see

:56:00. > :56:04.it grow even further. Will the Prime Minister confirm that he understands

:56:04. > :56:08.the importance of the creative industries to the economy of this

:56:09. > :56:14.country, and that they need to be buttressed by adequate intellectual

:56:14. > :56:24.property rights? Is he also aware that his intellectual property

:56:24. > :56:29.

:56:29. > :56:36.minister, that tourney handed sons of toil the fifth Viscount Younger

:56:36. > :56:41.of Leckie recently said in relation to Google, " I am very aware of

:56:41. > :56:50.their power, I am also very aware that they have access for whatever

:56:50. > :56:57.reason to higher levels at Number Ten than do I". Isn't that a

:56:57. > :57:02.disgraceful comment? THE SPEAKER: Order! Order! The

:57:02. > :57:05.honourable gentleman's question, which refers to a distinguished

:57:05. > :57:11.constituent of mine suffered from the disadvantage of being too long.

:57:11. > :57:14.The Prime Minister. First of all, I agree that the creative industries

:57:14. > :57:20.are very important for Britain's future. If we take the music

:57:20. > :57:24.industry, it has had a record year in terms of sales. One in every four

:57:24. > :57:29.album sold in Europe is made in the UK, and it is something we can be

:57:29. > :57:32.very proud of. We do have to get the intellectual property regime right,

:57:32. > :57:36.that is why we are legislating and we have taken action to extend the

:57:36. > :57:39.life of copyright protection to 75 years, which has been welcomed

:57:39. > :57:44.across the industry and I simply don't accept what he says about my

:57:44. > :57:49.ministers. Indeed, the minister most responsible for this is the

:57:49. > :57:59.honourable member for Wantage, whose father was a noble by Harold Wilson.

:57:59. > :58:04.So that doesn't fit. Will the Prime Minister join me in praising the

:58:04. > :58:12.hard work of the honourable member for South Holland and the deep

:58:12. > :58:16.things -- the things for ensuring that the kind of decisions taken at

:58:16. > :58:20.local level concerning wind turbines remain local. However, many of my

:58:20. > :58:23.constituents in south-east Cornwall are becoming increasingly concerned

:58:23. > :58:28.that our green fields are becoming solar fields. Should decisions

:58:28. > :58:34.regarding solar fields be subjected to the same planning laws as wind

:58:34. > :58:43.turbines? First of all, I join her in praising the excellent work done

:58:43. > :58:47.by The Right Honourable member, carried on by the Minister, The

:58:47. > :58:53.Right Honourable member for Sevenoaks, they have done a good job

:58:53. > :58:55.of bringing some sanity on the issue of onshore wind. On solar panels,

:58:55. > :59:03.this Government did substantially reduce the feed-in tariffs to make

:59:03. > :59:09.sure that this industry was not over subsidised, because all of these

:59:09. > :59:13.subsidies end up you will's bills. Glenfield Hospital has the second

:59:13. > :59:18.best survival rates for children's heart surgery in the country. Will

:59:18. > :59:22.the Prime Minister ensure that the quality of care, including survival

:59:22. > :59:27.rates, which is what matters most to parents, is central to any decision

:59:27. > :59:30.about the future of these services? I think the honourable lady is

:59:30. > :59:35.absolutely right. The Health Secretary will make an announcement

:59:35. > :59:41.shortly about the issues safe and secure, children's heart operations.

:59:41. > :59:44.We have to be frank that we cannot expect really technical surgery like

:59:44. > :59:49.children's heart operations to be carried out at every hospital in the

:59:49. > :59:51.country. As the parent of a desperately ill child wanting to get

:59:51. > :59:56.the best care for that child, you need to know you're getting

:59:56. > :00:00.something that is the world best for technical operations. You cannot get

:00:00. > :00:03.that everywhere but clearly the conclusion that this process,

:00:03. > :00:11.started in 2008, hasn't been carried out properly, so we need to make a

:00:11. > :00:20.restart. Is the Prime Minister aware that last year, Britain became an

:00:20. > :00:26.exporter of cars for the first time since 1976. If this trend continues,

:00:26. > :00:31.the UK will produce an all-time record of 20 million cars by 2017.

:00:31. > :00:35.Isn't this an example of a high value upscaling and putting the

:00:36. > :00:39.great back into British manufacturing and exports?

:00:39. > :00:43.honourable friend is absolutely right, this is a good example of a

:00:43. > :00:48.British industry that is succeeding. If you look at Honda, Nissan and

:00:48. > :00:51.Jaguar Land Rover, there is really good news in the automotive sector.

:00:51. > :00:55.What we now need to do is make sure we get behind that sector and

:00:55. > :01:00.encourage them to have as much as their supply chain onshore as

:01:00. > :01:10.possible. That is beginning to happen and I'm hoping the progress

:01:10. > :01:10.

:01:10. > :01:57.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 47 seconds

:01:57. > :02:01.change? After all of the talk of the last few weeks, the iron discipline

:02:01. > :02:11.we were going to hear about, the welfare cap they were telling us

:02:11. > :02:11.

:02:11. > :02:15.about, test one, failure. avoidance is rightly at the heart of

:02:15. > :02:18.the G8 agenda, could my right honourable friend tell the House

:02:18. > :02:25.what advice he might have received on this issue from either the leader

:02:25. > :02:28.of the Labour Party or the international lobbying shadow

:02:28. > :02:32.Chancellor? It is this Government that is putting aggressive tax

:02:33. > :02:37.avoidance at the heart of the G8 agenda and what do we hear this week

:02:37. > :02:44.from the Labour Party? They give tax avoidance advice to their donors.

:02:44. > :02:48.That is what they have been doing. �700,000 of tax avoided because of

:02:48. > :02:51.what Labour advised their donor to do. He asked me to calm down and

:02:51. > :02:56.frankly I cannot, because this is money that ought to be going into

:02:57. > :03:02.the health service, into education, it ought to be going into training

:03:02. > :03:11.young people, so let me challenge him. Will you give the money back?

:03:11. > :03:18.Yes or no? Will you give... It is very simple. This is what the Labour

:03:18. > :03:25.leader said. In the Guardian, so it must be true. The 2nd of April. "

:03:25. > :03:27.tax avoidance is a terrible thing. He said that if everybody approaches

:03:28. > :03:32.their tax affairs as some of these companies have approached their tax

:03:32. > :03:35.affairs, we would not have health service. We would not have an

:03:35. > :03:45.education system. That is the shameful state of the Labour Party

:03:45. > :03:49.

:03:49. > :03:53.today. This week is parents week, but the Prime Minister show support

:03:54. > :04:01.for the 7 million unpaid carers across the country and invest one

:04:01. > :04:06.billion from last year's underspend into social care, as we have placed

:04:06. > :04:11.we will do, so averting the Government made prices in a Andee

:04:11. > :04:15.and social care? We could start with the money from Labour's tax

:04:15. > :04:20.avoiding. That is money that should be going into the care system and

:04:20. > :04:27.into the National Health Service. This Government has put 12 points �7

:04:27. > :04:34.billion extra into our NHS. That is how we are supporting carers and

:04:34. > :04:37.hospitals -- club one 7 billion. She can have a word with her leader.

:04:37. > :04:43.we approach the 25th anniversary of the Piper Alpha disaster, will the

:04:43. > :04:47.Prime Minister join with me in recognising the challenges we face

:04:47. > :04:52.in continuing to bring oil and gas ashore from the North Sea, the

:04:52. > :04:55.skills and dedication of those who do it, and the paramount importance

:04:55. > :04:58.of safety in ensuring we can continue to exploit these

:04:58. > :05:03.resources? I certainly join my honourable friend in praising the

:05:03. > :05:07.North Sea oil and gas industry. It is a real jewel in the crown of the

:05:07. > :05:11.United Kingdom economy. I think what is encouraging is that this year, we

:05:11. > :05:16.are seeing a growth in production as a number of new fields and projects

:05:16. > :05:26.come on stream, but he is absolutely right to say that at all times,

:05:26. > :05:33.

:05:33. > :05:37.safety and security are absolutely and on and on.

:05:37. > :05:41.Then Ed Miliband went on living standards and the fact they are

:05:41. > :05:46.still being squeezed. We have discussed that too. Ireland not sure

:05:46. > :05:50.what we are going to -- I am not sure what we are going to do for the

:05:50. > :05:55.next 25 minutes. The e-mails were on those subjects. On Syria, all three

:05:55. > :06:01.party leaders need to avoid unnecessary procast nation on Syria,

:06:01. > :06:05.the hottest place is in hell are reserved for those who in times of

:06:05. > :06:11.great moral crisis maintain their neutrality.

:06:11. > :06:16.This is from James. " We heard we would not interfere in Syria. Please

:06:16. > :06:23.do not arm these people. It will make things worse. Do we never

:06:23. > :06:27.learn?" Ian White Whitely, "The first clash was statesmanlike and

:06:27. > :06:30.the second clash was more like it. The flash of temper from David

:06:30. > :06:35.Cameron showed him under pressure on the xwhe. Xh Ed Miliband recovered

:06:35. > :06:39.from last week's disaster and won. There were no answers from David

:06:39. > :06:46.Cameron." Ed Miliband, this is from Helen Manning, "Ed Miliband would

:06:46. > :06:50.rather talk about Syria today, Ed Balls' faux pas at the weekend about

:06:50. > :06:56.pensions being capped. Even Ed Balls couldn't believe what his lips were

:06:56. > :07:01.saying by the look on his face." That's according to Helen. This is

:07:01. > :07:03.from Alan, item I am and sick and tired of hearing Conservative

:07:03. > :07:09.politicians making up that pensioners are hard workers and

:07:09. > :07:16.people receiving benefits are getting something fromming in --

:07:16. > :07:21.something for nothing. I worked hard as a children 's nurse until I

:07:21. > :07:27.became ill and I paid into the pot too." Le, the Prime Minister was

:07:28. > :07:35.watching the programme or at least one of his people were. The Prime

:07:35. > :07:40.Minister said, " We know the party opposite want to cut the pension."

:07:40. > :07:46.Douglas Alexander was on TV there are morning. That would be the Daily

:07:46. > :07:52.Politics! Challenged about the triple-lock, that would be me, he

:07:52. > :07:56.said, it was... Shall we go?He said the triple-lock was their policy at

:07:56. > :08:00.present. This is a the Prime Minister, quoting you saying at

:08:00. > :08:04.presentmed. Given all the U-turns we have had said the Prime Minister in

:08:04. > :08:13.the past week from the party opposite, I don't think at present

:08:13. > :08:19.it will last long. He is just trying to make mischief. The Prime Minister

:08:19. > :08:23.might have cate better served preparing his answers on Syria.

:08:23. > :08:27.Why did you say at present? Because you were implying the position has

:08:27. > :08:31.changed or was going to change and I was saying clearly our position

:08:31. > :08:37.remains the same. I challenged to you could reconcile

:08:37. > :08:41.having a cap on pensions spending and support for the triple-lock?

:08:41. > :08:45.is possible that you can set out specific policies in relation to

:08:46. > :08:49.pensions while recognising that you need over a longer time to have a

:08:49. > :08:52.fiscal framework thatting you can defend, explain and that keeps the

:08:52. > :08:57.public finances in order. But when you say the triple-lock is

:08:57. > :09:01.your policy at present, does that mean it could change? Well, it

:09:01. > :09:06.remains our policy. I believe it will remain our policy, but I'm not

:09:06. > :09:10.going to write a manifesto this morning, you wouldn't expect me to.

:09:10. > :09:14.We are committed to providing the same level of support that we have

:09:14. > :09:17.on many areas and we want to do that within that fiscal framework.

:09:17. > :09:22.It is the conversation that no one in politics wanted to happen for

:09:22. > :09:27.years. The driver of welfare costs in Britain are pensions. Pensioners

:09:27. > :09:31.don't want to hear it. People are the writing the e-mails as I speak

:09:31. > :09:34.telling me they paid all their lives, the thing that is

:09:34. > :09:38.unaffordable is the cost of old people. No one wants to talk about

:09:38. > :09:44.it, but it is true. There is more and more of them. The cost is going

:09:44. > :09:54.up. The triple-lock is costing them much, much money than they budgeted

:09:54. > :10:00.for. That's the lock that said that he pensions would rise either

:10:00. > :10:05.inflangs or 2. 5%. Remember the argument that Gordon Brown was

:10:05. > :10:12.locked in this argument with Barbara Castle and she was a fighter for

:10:12. > :10:17.pensioners rights whether the link that Margaret Thatcher broke between

:10:17. > :10:24.pensions and earnings should be restored. The coalition decided to

:10:24. > :10:30.go one step further, not just restoring the link with earnings.

:10:31. > :10:37.The problem they have got that they don't like talking about because it

:10:37. > :10:40.deep deeply -- it is deeply, deeply unpopular, this does look

:10:40. > :10:44.unaffordable. With the size of the population, the growing size of the

:10:44. > :10:48.elderly population. Michael Howard, what do you make of

:10:48. > :10:54.Douglas Alexander's formulation? The formulation of triple-lock at

:10:54. > :10:58.present? I don't think Nick is right in saying that no one wanted to talk

:10:58. > :11:01.xw this ard or do anything about. What the Government has done is

:11:01. > :11:06.raise the retirement age and that's an important element of this

:11:06. > :11:12.problem. And Mr Miliband mentioned that

:11:12. > :11:15.Labour would have to continue to look at this? The IFS produced

:11:15. > :11:20.figures today, the number of pensioners who are working. The

:11:21. > :11:28.number of people over 60. Four million people over 65 are

:11:28. > :11:32.working or have come back into work which is a record number? As I am a

:11:32. > :11:38.pensioner pensioner! I am still working. I disclose my interests...

:11:38. > :11:45.You are doing all these young people out of a job. Touch wood, stay

:11:45. > :11:49.vigorous in their 60s and 70s, it is a good thing. I think that's an

:11:49. > :11:55.important element and that's the Government doing something right.

:11:55. > :12:00.had a policy statement from the Prime Minister on the help to buy

:12:00. > :12:03.homes, but he has been criticised that it could be used to buy second

:12:03. > :12:09.homes or frorners to use it to buy homes. The Prime Minister said the

:12:09. > :12:13.scheme is for people's only home which I rather complicated, but he

:12:13. > :12:17.must mean that you can only have one home, you can't use it it for a

:12:17. > :12:22.second one. To take part in the scheme you have to have a credit

:12:22. > :12:26.record and a credit record in this country which I guess he is counting

:12:26. > :12:30.out people from abroad coming here to do this? When the Chancellor

:12:30. > :12:36.announced this in his Budget, the potential of a subsidy to people's

:12:36. > :12:42.mortgages up to purchases of �650,000. He was asked by Ed Balls,

:12:42. > :12:46.the Shadow Chancellor, "Are you going to use this to subsidise

:12:46. > :12:50.second homes?" You could see people's eyes lighting up and George

:12:50. > :12:53.Osborne hadn't got an even and week after week in Prime Minister's

:12:53. > :12:58.Questions David Cameron has not had an answer. They have used this

:12:58. > :13:03.formula of only home. I have been tweeting George Osborne's spokesman

:13:03. > :13:07.who seems to imply that have you had two homes you couldn't apply for it,

:13:07. > :13:13.not just buy a second home, you couldn't use it to apply for a new

:13:13. > :13:17.first home. You would be ruled out if there are two home-owners or a

:13:17. > :13:20.three or four home-owners, you couldn't apply for this or indeed

:13:20. > :13:26.somebody from a... The devil will be in the detail.

:13:26. > :13:32.Why is it taking a it so long? devil is in the detail. How do you

:13:32. > :13:35.prove whether someone has one or two homes? Last week at Prime Minister's

:13:35. > :13:41.Questions, the formulation was it is a statement that's going to come

:13:41. > :13:44.from George Osborne and I think they realised they the didn't want to go

:13:44. > :13:47.through another week with the Prime Minister looking as if he didn't

:13:47. > :13:54.understand what is a key part of the Government's agenda.

:13:54. > :14:03.significance of this, Andrew, there are some economists now referring to

:14:03. > :14:08.the possibility of a housing back to boom like the boom in the 80s or the

:14:09. > :14:13.Barber boom by were intib rattly I think neared booms ahead of general

:14:14. > :14:17.elections. The The reason this is controversial

:14:17. > :14:22.is not simply whether money might be given to people who don't need it,

:14:22. > :14:25.but whether money is being used to artificially engineer a boom. Of

:14:26. > :14:30.will follow up on this, but it sounds like he hasn't answered the

:14:30. > :14:32.questions on this. Well, are until you know how it works. It maybe the

:14:32. > :14:38.intention. I mean what was interesting, when words are used

:14:39. > :14:46.that are words that you wouldn't normally use because some civil

:14:46. > :14:49.servant... Like only home.I keep hearing the word "intention". It is

:14:49. > :14:53.the intention Or at present. LAUGHTER

:14:53. > :14:58.Sorry! At present we are going to have to move on! Nick, thank you

:14:58. > :15:04.very much. Jo. We are heading to Dover, sadly

:15:04. > :15:08.not or a booze cruise, but Europe is on the mind of councillor Suzanne he

:15:08. > :15:18.Evans who defected from the Conservatives to UKIP. Here is her

:15:18. > :15:34.

:15:34. > :15:40.take on why Britain needs to say p A place that needs no introduction,

:15:40. > :15:45.a symbol of British independence and freedom. I'm at the lighthouse in

:15:45. > :15:49.Dover just 21 miles from France and Europe. For centuries, the English

:15:49. > :15:55.Channel defended us against invasion in the threat and of control by

:15:55. > :16:00.major powers in Europe, but today, politics has rendered it all but

:16:00. > :16:06.irrelevant. I find it appalling that we give �55 million to Europe every

:16:06. > :16:09.day more than we get back. Here in our own country, 2. 5 million of us

:16:09. > :16:14.are unemployed. Hundreds of thousands of us are relying on

:16:14. > :16:17.foodbanks to survive. And we are still �900 billion in debt. That

:16:17. > :16:24.money should be spent sorting out money should be spent sorting out

:16:24. > :16:30.money should be spent sorting out our own problems. But it is not just

:16:30. > :16:36.the money, it is the interference. I sometimes think there must be a

:16:36. > :16:39.group of bureaucrats thinking, " What can we do to screw up people's

:16:39. > :16:44.lives today?" Often their schemes are laughable, but when they

:16:44. > :16:51.threatened to take us to court because we insist that EU migrants

:16:51. > :16:57.should prove they live in Britain before they can claim benefits then

:16:57. > :17:01.it goes beyond a joke. We have given away too much power. Yes, a

:17:01. > :17:05.referendum it promised by the Tories in four years time and only then if

:17:05. > :17:10.we vote them in as a majority Government in 2015 and talk of

:17:11. > :17:14.trying to repatriate powers is just that. Existing treaties make this

:17:14. > :17:18.impossible. I think we are better off out of Europe and that's why I

:17:18. > :17:21.have joined UKIP. The inability of the Conservative Party leadership to

:17:21. > :17:26.connect with issues on the doorstep just made the decision all that

:17:26. > :17:36.easier. I know there are plenty of other people voters and politicians,

:17:36. > :17:36.

:17:36. > :17:46.who are sick of the Lib/Lab Con and they are ready to make a similar

:17:46. > :17:47.

:17:48. > :17:53.journey. Suzanne is with us, who else in your

:17:53. > :17:57.old party is greater Falla? Councillor Rod Scott has resigned

:17:57. > :18:02.from the party and has announced he is joining UKIP. Any others? Not so

:18:02. > :18:06.far, but I live in hope. Why have you left the party that is in power

:18:06. > :18:10.and can actually make a difference and job to a fringe party that

:18:10. > :18:13.hasn't got a single MP and is probably never going to be in power?

:18:13. > :18:17.I don't think the current Government, the Conservative party,

:18:17. > :18:25.has the will to make a difference. A referendum in four years' time,

:18:25. > :18:27.2017, if David Cameron really wanted to get out of Europe, he would put

:18:27. > :18:32.the legislation on the table now, whether he thought he was going to

:18:32. > :18:38.win or not. The truth is, he's not interested and want us to stay in.

:18:38. > :18:41.Michael Howard, are you sad to see people like Suzanne leave the

:18:41. > :18:46.Conservative party? I am sad to see anyone leave the Conservative party.

:18:46. > :18:50.I agree that the way in which the EU works at the moment is

:18:50. > :18:55.unsatisfactory in many respects. you agree that the Conservative

:18:55. > :19:01.party no longer has the will to make a difference? Of course I don't,

:19:01. > :19:05.David Cameron has indicated clearly a determination to change the way we

:19:05. > :19:10.trade with Europe to make it a better European Union not only for

:19:10. > :19:13.us, but for every other member states of the European Union. And I

:19:13. > :19:18.think he should be given the opportunity to try and negotiate

:19:18. > :19:23.that. And in 2017, we can all make up our own minds as to whether we

:19:23. > :19:27.want to stay in or not. I think the question is how realistic is it

:19:27. > :19:30.going to be to renegotiate those treaties? We will all have the

:19:30. > :19:34.opportunity to make a judgement of whether he has succeeded or not. I

:19:34. > :19:42.don't know how we will vote. If we haven't made some significant

:19:42. > :19:45.changes, I may well vote no. But I think it is reasonable for the Prime

:19:45. > :19:48.Minister to be given the opportunity to see whether he can make those

:19:48. > :19:54.changes and we are the only party that is promising to give the

:19:54. > :19:58.British people a say on this issue. But the gamble hasn't worked has it?

:19:58. > :20:02.That promise has been made and UKIP has done better than at any other

:20:02. > :20:06.time in recent election results. all know that at this stage in

:20:06. > :20:10.parliament, parties like UKIP do very well for all sorts of different

:20:10. > :20:14.reasons. If the Liberal Democrats went in Government, they would be

:20:14. > :20:18.hoovering up by-election after by-election. That is the way our

:20:18. > :20:22.politics works in the mid-term. I think when it comes to the general

:20:22. > :20:29.election, and we do conservatives will be able to say very clearly,

:20:29. > :20:32.vote us back, we will do our best to renegotiate and you will then decide

:20:32. > :20:38.in 2017 whether on those terms you want to stay in or leave. I think

:20:38. > :20:41.that is a compelling argument. even, in your own backyard if you

:20:41. > :20:51.like, the county council elections in Folkestone and hide, there were

:20:51. > :20:52.

:20:52. > :21:00.three UKIP gains and one Green game. What should you do? How would you

:21:00. > :21:04.woo back Suzanne? The one thing I would like to see is a legislated

:21:04. > :21:09.commitment to holding that referendum. I would very much like

:21:09. > :21:12.to see the Private members Bill, which is going to have its second

:21:12. > :21:16.reading next month, on the statute book. Because you don't believe it

:21:16. > :21:20.will happen without it? I believe it will happen without it but I am

:21:20. > :21:24.aware there are a number of people who are sceptical about that and do

:21:24. > :21:28.not trust what politicians say, and I think it would be a very good

:21:28. > :21:32.thing indeed if that commitment is on the statute book before the

:21:32. > :21:36.general election. Would that make a difference question mark now, if you

:21:36. > :21:42.want to woo me back, and that is unlikely, you would have to get it

:21:42. > :21:46.through now. Let's have it on the same day as the General Election.

:21:46. > :21:49.Douglas Alexander, is Labour going to offer the British people and

:21:49. > :21:53.in-out referendum at the next General Election? We are not

:21:53. > :21:58.convinced that it is in the national interest, so we have taken the

:21:58. > :22:05.position we have taken. Can you rule it out question mark can you rule

:22:05. > :22:09.out for us here, bearing in mind -- can you rule it out? It is never

:22:09. > :22:12.wise to say never. We will never rule out the possibility of a

:22:12. > :22:17.referendum in the future, dependent on changes we have not yet seen and

:22:17. > :22:19.circumstances that we don't at present envisaged. We are on the

:22:19. > :22:24.other hand clear that the sovereignty act on the table at the

:22:24. > :22:30.moment, part of the statue, which allows for a referendum if there is

:22:30. > :22:34.a significant transfer of sovereignty, so it is not in

:22:34. > :22:40.principle an objection to referendum but the priority has to be economic

:22:40. > :22:43.recovery and the biggest issue of the General Election is going to be

:22:43. > :22:48.the economy. You are not united on this. I have had several Labour

:22:48. > :22:52.senior figures say we need a referendum. Of course there are some

:22:52. > :22:55.in the party's ranks who have supported a referendum but I would

:22:55. > :22:59.argue that even they overwhelmingly see a referendum as a mechanism of

:22:59. > :23:06.securing fresh consent for British membership. It is not, as we have

:23:06. > :23:11.seen a game from Michael's comments, because our party split as well,

:23:11. > :23:14.Michael says he would vote against, Philip Hammond says he would vote

:23:14. > :23:18.against, Michael Gove said he would vote against, the Prime Minister

:23:18. > :23:22.cannot tell us how he would vote. And I am not that surprised that

:23:22. > :23:28.Suzanne and many other former Conservative colleagues are deeply

:23:28. > :23:32.unconvinced that the strategy the Tories are choosing to pursue.

:23:32. > :23:35.Red-faced, puffing politicians, they were out in force last night. Some

:23:35. > :23:40.of them were dragging their colleagues to the left, others

:23:40. > :23:45.desperately pulling to the right. What is new, I hear you cry? This

:23:45. > :23:53.time, it was the annual Charity tug of war. Giles Dilnot grabbed the end

:23:53. > :23:57.of a rope and he joined in. Westminster is traditionally fall of

:23:57. > :24:01.�1 ceremony, it is not short of a few people blowing their own trumpet

:24:01. > :24:07.too, but this event is neither of these things -- full of pomp and

:24:07. > :24:11.ceremony. The annual Parliamentary tug of war pits teams of the fit and

:24:11. > :24:17.healthy, or the unfit and foolhardy in my case, in one of life's less

:24:17. > :24:22.dignified sporting endeavours. My back might never recover, but let's

:24:23. > :24:26.see how this goes. In short, not very well. We lost

:24:26. > :24:31.2-1, but nobody was really there to watch us.

:24:31. > :24:34.Here is the contest they have been waiting for, your elected

:24:34. > :24:39.representatives against unelected representatives of the Lords. MPs,

:24:39. > :24:43.cross-party, all pulling together. And now they go. As in Parliament,

:24:43. > :24:48.the upper chamber has less power than the Commons and first blood

:24:48. > :24:52.went a bit predictably to the MPs, but second round and suddenly their

:24:52. > :24:57.Lordships showing the strain fought back.

:24:57. > :25:01.Not for many a year have the Lords actually won any of the tug of wars

:25:01. > :25:06.they have done. This could be important, they actually won one. It

:25:06. > :25:10.is 1-1. But despite a titanic effort from certain peers, it was

:25:10. > :25:17.eventually the MPs that one, although the mean were gracious in

:25:17. > :25:21.defeat. We were waiting for the final Paul and suddenly it was over.

:25:21. > :25:24.We came a close second. There is a cover for winners to drink to the

:25:24. > :25:31.only occasion where it is OK for politicians to pull a few strings

:25:31. > :25:34.for money. We are joined now by people who were

:25:34. > :25:41.both there last night. Just tell the nation, what was the result last

:25:41. > :25:49.night? Alex? It was 2-1 to the House of Commons. In previous years, it

:25:49. > :25:54.has been 2-0, so things have slipped. You looked as though you

:25:54. > :25:57.were praying to the heavens for strength, it didn't work. We were

:25:57. > :26:00.trying every technique and the best is to look straight up into the sky

:26:00. > :26:09.but we were slightly disadvantaged, because the Commons weighed in at

:26:09. > :26:17.one time, and we weighed in 130 kilograms less. A tonne?But all is

:26:17. > :26:19.fair in love and tug of war. Commons team weighed a tonne, that

:26:20. > :26:26.is what subsidised dining does for you. They are normally the

:26:26. > :26:31.lightweights. Once again bringing wait to reduce politics. But most

:26:31. > :26:37.importantly, we raised almost �150,000 for Macmillan cancer.

:26:37. > :26:43.everybody thinks is a great cause. Did the Commons team actually

:26:43. > :26:46.intentionally put weight on for this? Actually, the team captain's

:26:46. > :26:50.face dropped to the ground when he found out I have lost weight since

:26:50. > :26:57.last year but he still put me in as the anchorman, but he wasn't happy.

:26:57. > :27:01.What training did you do for this great event? A few pints and a pie.

:27:01. > :27:10.That is tough. They even put beer into the trophy and they were very

:27:10. > :27:12.gracious in allowing us to share it with them. Was it your beer?It was

:27:12. > :27:21.COBRA. Andrew, you can take part next year.

:27:21. > :27:27.I have been there and I have been one of those shouting. They have

:27:27. > :27:33.teams of cheerleaders. Alex, what do you put your unusual victory down

:27:34. > :27:39.to? Grit and determination. That can't be true. Either that or the

:27:39. > :27:43.Cobra beer. Another plug for the Cobra beer. Is

:27:43. > :27:46.this the first time you to have taken part? No, I have been in

:27:46. > :27:52.Parliament for seven years and have taken part every year and we did win

:27:52. > :27:56.one year, I can remember that. let you down? No one lets us down,

:27:56. > :27:59.this is a simulation of what happens between the houses in real life,

:27:59. > :28:03.when we defeat the Government in the House of Lords, it goes back to the

:28:03. > :28:06.House of Commons and it comes back to us and we send it back again.

:28:06. > :28:11.we always win. Very diplomatic. You don't always

:28:11. > :28:14.win, it was unusual. We were to let you go, you need to get in training

:28:14. > :28:18.for next year. That we better.

:28:18. > :28:23.More pints and pies. Now to put you out of your misery with the answer

:28:23. > :28:32.to Guess The Year. The answer was 1967. Douglas, if you press the red

:28:32. > :28:36.button. And look behind. There you go, Philip Thomson. From a beautiful

:28:36. > :28:40.part of the world. That is it for today, thank you to all of our

:28:40. > :28:43.guests. The news is starting over on BBC One, I will be back tomorrow at

:28:43. > :28:49.noon with all of the big political stories of the day. Where will you