:00:44. > :00:51.Politics. Is economic growth being backed by a workforce without the
:00:51. > :00:55.skills needed, including basic numerous sea and literacy? That is
:00:55. > :00:58.what British businesses. What has gone wrong? It is Ed Miliband 's big
:00:58. > :01:05.idea but I bet you were wondering what pre-distribution actually
:01:05. > :01:12.means. You have come to the right place! Let the wonkathon begin!
:01:12. > :01:16.London is the place for me... It is 65 years since HMS Windrush arrived
:01:16. > :01:21.with the first wave of West Indian immigrants. We will debate where
:01:21. > :01:29.multiculturalism went right and wrong. And do you believe in strange
:01:29. > :01:37.little men from other than its? -- other planets? We have one live in
:01:37. > :01:42.the studio! Lembit Opik will be here to talk about UFOs.
:01:42. > :01:46.All that in the next hour. Who better to discuss it all than the
:01:46. > :01:51.Captain Kirk and Mr Spock of Westminster punditry. You can decide
:01:51. > :01:59.which is which! I am talking about the Daily Mail 's Andrew Pierce and
:01:59. > :02:06.Carla Buzasi from the Huffington Post. You got that right!Let's
:02:06. > :02:09.start with the scandal over the cover-up of the deaths of 16 babies
:02:09. > :02:13.and two mothers at Furness General Hospital 's maternity unit in
:02:13. > :02:19.Cumbria. This morning the Health Secretary said he had little
:02:19. > :02:22.confidence in the work of the care quality commission, the CQC, the
:02:22. > :02:28.body that is supposed to regulate the health service and make sure
:02:28. > :02:31.they do their job. He thought it needed to undergo big changes.
:02:31. > :02:38.have these awful deaths in that hospital in Morecambe Bay is awful
:02:38. > :02:42.enough, but then the very body whose job it is to speak up for the
:02:42. > :02:47.public, speak up for patients, to be involved in covering it up, is
:02:47. > :02:50.totally unacceptable. I think we do have to pause for a moment and
:02:50. > :02:54.recognise that if we didn't have this new management at the CQC,
:02:54. > :03:00.coming in with a new broom, we wouldn't have this independent
:03:00. > :03:05.report, we wouldn't have the names in the public arena. There is a huge
:03:05. > :03:08.job to do to restore public confidence. He didn't mince his
:03:08. > :03:14.words. You wonder if the Secretary of State would take such a line like
:03:14. > :03:18.that, maybe he should just abolish the whole thing and start again? We
:03:18. > :03:22.are in a difficult position. Lives have been lost, babies lives, the
:03:22. > :03:27.general public is understandably upset. You need a statement like
:03:27. > :03:30.that, you need to feel someone is going to do something about it. You
:03:30. > :03:35.would end up with another body, may be the same people doing the same
:03:35. > :03:45.thing. They need to fix this and move on and ensure that if tragedies
:03:45. > :03:45.
:03:45. > :03:47.like this occur, people will be held to account. Things can go wrong in
:03:47. > :03:53.hospitals, we all understand that, but two things seem to have happened
:03:53. > :04:00.here. A lot went wrong at this hospital, too often. And the people
:04:00. > :04:03.that we, the taxpayers, paid to monitor these things, to step in,
:04:04. > :04:07.make sure it doesn't happen again, they did not do their job and they
:04:07. > :04:13.covered up the fact they hadn't done their job. They gave this hospital a
:04:13. > :04:18.clean goal of health. extraordinary thing is the cover-up.
:04:18. > :04:22.This week the banking commission recommended a new criminal charge
:04:22. > :04:26.for bankers who are guilty of reckless conduct. We can all think
:04:26. > :04:30.of a feud bankers who perhaps should have been charged with that. Isn't
:04:30. > :04:33.it time that this approach was brought into the NHS, which is a
:04:33. > :04:41.life or death industry? Years now, terrible things have been going
:04:41. > :04:43.wrong, we saw it in Stafford, where 1200 people died needlessly. Sir
:04:43. > :04:48.David Nicholson is now the Chief Executive of the NHS, you has not
:04:48. > :04:51.been held to account. I think Jeremy Hunt should go further and get the
:04:51. > :04:58.law officers to look at what sort of criminal sanction can be introduced
:04:58. > :05:03.into the NHS. A lot of people see this as another example of the
:05:03. > :05:09.divide between the governing elite and ordinary people, this is a
:05:09. > :05:12.country where we have bankers who can money-laundering the Mexican
:05:12. > :05:15.cartels drugs money, create a financial crash that leaves millions
:05:15. > :05:21.unemployed, we have health service bureaucrats who don't do their job
:05:21. > :05:26.even when lives are at stake and nobody goes to jail. There is also
:05:26. > :05:29.an issue here, there is a salary thing, the bankers want to line
:05:29. > :05:35.their pockets and everyday people 's savings are not worth worrying
:05:35. > :05:44.about. By the standards of everybody else, these Chief Executive 's are
:05:44. > :05:50.earning a lot. And she has a pension of 1.35 million, gold-plated public
:05:50. > :05:55.sector pension which you couldn't get in the private sector. Do you
:05:55. > :06:00.think this undermines the British love affair with the NHS? I don't
:06:00. > :06:05.think so. That is a broad brush stroke, this is one hospital, they
:06:05. > :06:12.have been other hospitals where they have been horrific incidents.
:06:12. > :06:19.have been told at mid Staffordshire was not untypical. We have been told
:06:19. > :06:22.the British public still wants to use the NHS... I wonder if that is
:06:22. > :06:29.partly because their expectations are too low for a start, and
:06:29. > :06:32.secondly, that until recently, this CQC which has not done its job
:06:32. > :06:36.properly, but as Alan Johnson pointed out last night in this
:06:36. > :06:42.studio, until about 2000 we had nothing monitoring what was going on
:06:42. > :06:44.at all, we didn't really know. last time I was on the show we were
:06:44. > :06:50.talking about the number of complaints, that was mainly about
:06:50. > :06:57.GPs. That had gone up, the reason seems to have been because we have
:06:57. > :07:02.made it easier for people to complain. My parents generation,
:07:02. > :07:06.which was the first to enjoy the NHS, were so grateful because they
:07:06. > :07:11.had lived through the 20s and 30s, they wouldn't really think of
:07:11. > :07:13.complaining. If anything went wrong, it was their fault. They have been
:07:13. > :07:20.several generations since then, generations who now think that
:07:20. > :07:25.complaining is their right and of course it is. We have been told by
:07:25. > :07:29.successive governments, they are spending ever-increasing amounts of
:07:29. > :07:33.our money. Millions of millions of pounds of money has been spent on
:07:33. > :07:36.gagging orders in the NHS, gagging whistleblowers, which is a scandal,
:07:37. > :07:39.because they are trying to raise concern with what is going wrong in
:07:39. > :07:45.hospitals and they have been suppressed with taxpayers money,
:07:45. > :07:51.legally. There is a lot to go on here. I want to ask you, what is
:07:51. > :07:58.your favourite political buzzword? Crowd sourcing? That Heidi Parenti,
:07:58. > :08:02.omnishambles? What shame none of you mentioned the current phrase in
:08:02. > :08:10.Labour circles, which is pre-distribution. It is an idea
:08:10. > :08:13.dreamt up by Ed Miliband 's new intellectual guru, Jacob Hacker. It
:08:13. > :08:23.is a way of redesigning what the government does when you don't want
:08:23. > :08:36.
:08:36. > :08:41.to spend any more money or raise A conference in Oxford, 2012. The
:08:41. > :08:44.leader of the Labour Party meets an academic called Professor Jacob
:08:44. > :08:51.Hacker. He is sceptical of an economic system that lets the rich
:08:51. > :08:55.get richer and pays off the rest with benefits and tax credits.
:08:55. > :08:58.it has left them in is a position of having to mop up after the market
:08:58. > :09:03.when things go bad, either do redistribute to make sure that
:09:03. > :09:07.middle and working class people have enough income and adequate benefits,
:09:07. > :09:14.or to clean up after financial crises. The answer?
:09:14. > :09:20.Pre-distribution. A fairly similar -- simple idea, that inequality can
:09:20. > :09:24.be prevented before it even starts. Historically, the most important and
:09:24. > :09:28.effective things the state has done has been through pre-distribution,
:09:28. > :09:35.sanitation standards that protected public health, setting the standards
:09:35. > :09:41.that allowed Labour to -- labour movements to form. It can't just
:09:41. > :09:44.involve the government endlessly stepping in after the market deck
:09:44. > :09:51.has been built. We need to get the deck stacked a little bit in the
:09:51. > :09:55.favour of the people. It is a thread that runs through many of his
:09:56. > :09:58.biggest fans, like Ed Miliband. The idea that employers should be
:09:58. > :10:02.encouraged to pay a living wage which is higher than the minimum
:10:02. > :10:06.wage, so that business shares responsibility for the issues of
:10:06. > :10:13.income along with the government. But there is someone who isn't
:10:13. > :10:21.buying, David Cameron, who ridiculed Richard Bhushan last year. --
:10:21. > :10:24.redistribution. His recommendation is we spend an extra 200 billion and
:10:24. > :10:28.borrow an extra 200 billion in this Parliament. But in the work I have
:10:28. > :10:36.done, I have discovered his new book. It is published ) is to need
:10:36. > :10:40.of the press and it is called, the road to nowhere. We joke in the use
:10:40. > :10:44.of the best thing that can happen to a progressive is you are attacked in
:10:44. > :10:51.the Wall Street Journal. The best thing in the UK is you get attacked
:10:51. > :11:01.by conservative Prime Minister. His next appointment is he's off to
:11:01. > :11:04.
:11:04. > :11:11.Parliament to see if Miller band. -- Ed Miliband.
:11:11. > :11:19.We're joined by a former adviser to new Labour. Tell us, give us a
:11:19. > :11:22.simple explanation, short and simple, of pre-distribution.
:11:22. > :11:28.idea of prudish to be shown is added into the back of the jobs market in
:11:28. > :11:31.Britain has become hideously in equal -- pre-distribution. Tax
:11:31. > :11:37.credits are unsustainable so we have to make work, jobs and the labour
:11:37. > :11:42.market much fairer. For example, the best example that has been developed
:11:42. > :11:46.is the minimum wage has made some improvements in terms of making jobs
:11:46. > :11:51.fairer for people but the minimum wage, particularly in areas like
:11:51. > :11:54.London, is far too low. So the idea of a living wage is that we have
:11:54. > :12:02.higher minimums to which people are entitled, which makes the jobs they
:12:02. > :12:06.do fairer. It is an issue that speaks... A few years ago that was
:12:06. > :12:10.called London weighting. If you particular profession, he led a
:12:10. > :12:17.national salary but if you worked in London where the costs of living was
:12:17. > :12:20.higher, you got London weighting, a bit more to account for that.
:12:20. > :12:23.role sorts of ways in which governments step in to make things
:12:23. > :12:28.fairer, but the issue that is speaking to is the fact that despite
:12:28. > :12:31.lots of changes in benefits in the last 15 years or so, we still have a
:12:31. > :12:34.situation where insignificant parts of the country you will have a
:12:34. > :12:41.household with two income earners, going to work every day will working
:12:41. > :12:44.long hours, which is not adequate to keep them and their family in
:12:44. > :12:50.reasonable conditions. The notion of pre-distribution is looking at
:12:50. > :12:55.different ways of making the outcome fairer. The last Labour government
:12:55. > :13:01.favours tax credits and the minimum wage, so is this really --
:13:01. > :13:03.repudiation of that approach? an interested critique of some of
:13:03. > :13:09.the policy measures that were introduced by the previous
:13:09. > :13:14.government. One of the measures was to introduce a huge number of tax
:13:14. > :13:17.credits designed to subsidise low wages. There is a recognition that
:13:17. > :13:22.that approach has become unsustainable for a number of
:13:22. > :13:25.reasons. Wages were simply not improving in time, real wages were
:13:25. > :13:29.actually decreasing for a significant proportion of the
:13:29. > :13:33.working population, but also, since the financial crisis, the amount of
:13:33. > :13:39.public money available to spend on these measures is falling, so we
:13:39. > :13:46.cannot rely on the government to keep stepping in. Except Labour has
:13:46. > :13:51.not imposed any cuts. The recent speeches by Ed Miliband and Ed balls
:13:51. > :13:59.have signified that Labour is going to... They didn't mention tax
:13:59. > :14:04.credits. The reason why wages have not kept pace with rice is and why
:14:04. > :14:09.real wages have been static, if not falling in some cases, it is a
:14:10. > :14:13.Western world phenomenon, it is true in the Eurozone and the US. The
:14:13. > :14:21.reasons behind it are complex that they are a huge macroeconomic
:14:21. > :14:26.reasons. There has been a shift from Labour to capital, Cheryl profits
:14:26. > :14:29.has risen substantially, share of wages has fallen. These are big
:14:29. > :14:34.changes which any Labour government would want to address although they
:14:34. > :14:43.all continued under the last Labour government. But I'm not sure if
:14:43. > :14:45.pre-distribution is not a mouse taking on an elephant. That is one
:14:45. > :14:48.aspect, but there are big structural changes which have driven the kinds
:14:48. > :14:52.of inequalities we have seen in countries like the UK. One aspect
:14:52. > :14:55.has to be about education and skills, all governments in the last
:14:55. > :14:58.30 years have talked about the importance of making the
:14:58. > :15:06.distribution of skills fairer, but we have a long way to go into and of
:15:06. > :15:08.addressing the needs of low skilled workers. Another aspect of this
:15:08. > :15:13.debate, in terms of changing structural attribution, is
:15:13. > :15:19.increasing the supply of well-paid, high-quality jobs in the UK economy,
:15:19. > :15:24.addressing issues like the manufacturing industry. The previous
:15:24. > :15:26.governor did not have a good record on that. So the point is that in
:15:27. > :15:36.Russian to pre-distribution, it is not just about addressing wages in
:15:37. > :15:41.
:15:41. > :15:49.the labour market, it is about the the doorstep of the big society.
:15:49. > :15:54.That bad? I am afraid so.You are seeing it is like the big society in
:15:54. > :15:59.that nobody knows what it means. They haven't a clue. I was talking
:15:59. > :16:05.to members in portcullis house when this came out and they were shaking
:16:05. > :16:09.their heads in disbelief saying, he is too much of a nerd. At the heart
:16:09. > :16:17.it is a good idea but the problem with political philosophies is how
:16:17. > :16:21.do you educate the average man and woman to what it means to them. You
:16:21. > :16:27.can't put predistribution on a pamphlet when you are campaigning
:16:27. > :16:33.for the next election. If you have a great idea, fantastic. But what will
:16:33. > :16:39.that manifest itself for the average person? What is the answer?If I
:16:39. > :16:45.knew that, I would be doing that job. Rather than minimum wage, I am
:16:45. > :16:50.struggling to see what Labour gets out of this. Administered wages
:16:50. > :16:54.should be related to the economic circumstances of the region, and
:16:54. > :16:58.that is only a reflection of what the Tories say about welfare
:16:58. > :17:06.benefits. If you are nursing in Durham you should not have the same
:17:06. > :17:11.wage as a nurse in Kensington. Is this, Labour has a problem in the
:17:11. > :17:15.polls at the moment. It is a head but not by a a lot and Labour
:17:15. > :17:21.strategists are worried that the league is not robust. If the economy
:17:21. > :17:28.is going to start picking up, they are even in more trouble. They need
:17:28. > :17:33.something that says, vote for me. This team does not think this is it.
:17:33. > :17:38.This team is not yet convinced. Andrew is right that predistribution
:17:38. > :17:44.is a terrible buzzword. Probably makes very little impact on most
:17:45. > :17:54.voters. You need a new word!The question is what is the underlying
:17:55. > :17:55.
:17:55. > :17:58.policy programme. You have addressed the issue of wages. I think there
:17:58. > :17:59.are big issues about the school system and industrial policy, to use
:17:59. > :18:09.government to improve the quality and supply of jobs. Political
:18:09. > :18:13.
:18:13. > :18:17.parties have grappled with that. Since the end of the Second World
:18:17. > :18:25.War. This is not a search for novelty for the sake of novelty. It
:18:25. > :18:28.is making sure ideas have an impact. The big society has been a failure.
:18:28. > :18:31.The previous government did talk about this idea but did not
:18:31. > :18:41.implement what that meant. The final question to do with perception
:18:41. > :18:41.
:18:42. > :18:47.rather than substance of what you have been talking about. The public
:18:47. > :18:52.already think that Ed Miliband is a bit of a Westminster policy wonk.
:18:52. > :18:56.Don't they reinforce everybody's worst fears? The big test is does
:18:56. > :19:03.the government have the ideas and policies to make a success of
:19:04. > :19:05.government? I am sure we could invent a much more voter friendly
:19:05. > :19:11.concept than the notion of predistribution but the point is,
:19:11. > :19:14.does the future Labour government have the ideas to make a
:19:14. > :19:21.difference? That is underlining test. That is true whether you call
:19:21. > :19:24.it predistribution or not. Indeed. Thank you. Pleasure.Next week
:19:24. > :19:26.Chancellor Osborne will set out his spending review which will take
:19:26. > :19:36.departmental spending through the period of the next election in 2015
:19:36. > :19:36.
:19:36. > :19:43.and into 2016. The election is in May and that he runs until 2016.
:19:43. > :19:44.Jeffrey, sorry, I mean George, is looking for a further �11.5 billion
:19:44. > :19:54.from most departments to cover the extra borrowing he's had to
:19:54. > :20:06.
:20:06. > :20:08.undertake over the last three years. This morning, the ONS released their
:20:08. > :20:18.latest borrowing figures and Hugh Pym's been looking at them and joins
:20:18. > :20:23.
:20:23. > :20:25.us now. The Chancellor has been saying
:20:25. > :20:29.consistently that the deficit was coming down year by year. It looked
:20:29. > :20:33.as if it would happen by the skin of his teeth and that is what the
:20:33. > :20:43.estimates showed but the latest figures from the office of National
:20:43. > :20:46.statistics show that borrowing was up slightly in 2012 than 2011. The
:20:46. > :20:52.Treasury are saying they have revised down 2011, they borrowed
:20:52. > :20:56.less and that is good news. Labour as you can imagine are seeing the
:20:57. > :21:00.whole narrative has been about deficit reduction and borrowing was
:21:00. > :21:07.up. That is embarrassing for the Chancellor.
:21:07. > :21:11.They are dancing on the head of a pin. This is a small difference
:21:11. > :21:17.between two huge numbers and they are the residue of another two even
:21:17. > :21:22.bigger numbers. For most people, the fact is the deficit was the same
:21:23. > :21:29.last year as it was the year before. Isn't that the truth?
:21:29. > :21:36.And probably this financial year as well. Yes. �120 billion flat. No
:21:36. > :21:42.messing around. The borrowing picture is flat. 120 billion,
:21:42. > :21:46.unchanged over three years, quite a lot of money. That is where you are.
:21:46. > :21:50.Playing around with hundreds of millions does not amount to much.
:21:50. > :21:59.But when you talk about reducing the deficit and borrowing has gone up a
:21:59. > :22:06.bit, that does raise some questions. It is the same for three years. You
:22:06. > :22:13.could set deficit reduction has stalled. But the main -- May figures
:22:13. > :22:18.look a bit better. I understand that is partly because of a shed load of
:22:18. > :22:24.money has arrived from Switzerland. Yes. The figures for May, the
:22:24. > :22:30.Chancellor borrowed 12.5 billion rather than 15.5 the previous year,
:22:30. > :22:35.so down a bit. Once you strip out lots of factors like the Royal mail
:22:35. > :22:41.pension fund that I will not bore you with. He got �3 million as a
:22:41. > :22:46.result of deals with the Swiss tax authorities to get more money out of
:22:46. > :22:53.British people with accounts in Switzerland. That is a one-off
:22:53. > :22:58.though. But yes, the figures for May were helped by the Swiss factor.
:22:58. > :23:02.Given that his deficit reduction plan has clearly stored and could be
:23:02. > :23:07.for three years, I suppose the one thing he may be optimistic about is
:23:07. > :23:11.if these signs are brought and he does not use green shoots, he says
:23:11. > :23:14.the economy is healing, if these signs are right and we get more
:23:14. > :23:22.growth, the deficit will resume its downward trajectory?
:23:22. > :23:25.Indeed. Growth and more growth than he predicted means more tax revenues
:23:25. > :23:31.coming in, lower spending on benefits and the deficit coming
:23:31. > :23:36.down. That is what he is hoping for. The three years, including this
:23:36. > :23:42.current year, were flat. He will hope to put that behind him. But
:23:42. > :23:46.where will the growth come from? That debate will go on. Will the
:23:46. > :23:52.Bank of England new governor help, will the housing market measures
:23:52. > :23:57.help? We will have to see. That will have a big potential impact on
:23:57. > :24:01.borrowing and the deficit. Thanks for joining us.
:24:01. > :24:03.Now, what might be holding back economic growth? Familiar answers
:24:03. > :24:07.include cuts in infrastructure spending and lack of consumer
:24:07. > :24:15.confidence but what about the workers? The Confederation of
:24:15. > :24:17.British Industry thinks we just don't have the right skills or
:24:17. > :24:20.attitude. According to their new survey, half of UK companies are
:24:20. > :24:25.having to provide training in basic numeracy and literacy to get their
:24:25. > :24:28.workforce up to the standards required to do the job. The survey
:24:28. > :24:33.of 294 firms found 48% of employers organised remedial training in at
:24:33. > :24:36.least one basic skill area for adult staff already for them. The CBI
:24:36. > :24:38.found there was also a problem with potential employees leaving schools
:24:38. > :24:42.and colleges, with a third of companies saying they are
:24:43. > :24:45.dissatisfied with their basic literacy and numeracy. Almost half
:24:45. > :24:48.of businesses are worried about whether they can recruit high
:24:48. > :24:58.skilled workers in the future, with a particular problem in the
:24:58. > :24:58.
:24:58. > :25:00.technical STEM skills of science, technology, engineering, and maths.
:25:01. > :25:04.The CBI warn that the "stubborn skills shortage" could hold back
:25:04. > :25:10.growth in the UK, and is calling on the government not to cut Vince
:25:10. > :25:13.Cable's budget in next week's spending review.
:25:13. > :25:16.Neil Carberry, the CBI's director of education and skills, joins us now
:25:16. > :25:25.along with Christine Blower, the general secretary of the National
:25:25. > :25:30.Union of Teachers. Welcome to both of you. Let's start with the CBI.
:25:30. > :25:34.The report is very interesting but I would also say to you it tells us
:25:34. > :25:40.nothing we did not know already. Reports like this have appeared
:25:40. > :25:43.since the Royal commission in 1868. Why don't you do something about it?
:25:43. > :25:49.If you have known for all these years that this country does not
:25:49. > :25:53.have the right skills, why doesn't industry do something about it?
:25:53. > :26:01.Businesses all across the country are. If you have been to the JCB
:26:01. > :26:04.Academy, we have a lot of our major members investing in the kind of
:26:04. > :26:12.technical and vocational education that will help address the kind of
:26:12. > :26:19.things you have been talking about. I know the JCB Academy, I know the
:26:19. > :26:25.work that Ken Baker is doing as well, but these are not the result
:26:25. > :26:29.of a concerted effort by industry to upscale the nation. These are
:26:29. > :26:39.individuals who are doing their best by collectively -- but collectively
:26:39. > :26:41.
:26:41. > :26:44.there is a drop in the pond. We are looking to have up to 200 UCTs, we
:26:44. > :26:52.are looking at working with colleges, so business spends about
:26:52. > :26:58.�40 billion a year on training staff, well over �1000 per worker in
:26:58. > :27:02.the labour market. If that was working properly, we would not have
:27:02. > :27:06.the skills shortage? Part of the problem is that the skills system is
:27:06. > :27:13.driven by government and not by businesses so at the moment, the
:27:13. > :27:17.funding stream to things like apprenticeships runs from government
:27:17. > :27:22.through the providers. Why doesn't it run on the other way round? Why
:27:22. > :27:27.doesn't business say, this is what we want, we will pay for it, and we
:27:27. > :27:33.will take it off the tax bill with government support. That would make
:27:33. > :27:39.business needs, business would come to be treated as a customer, better
:27:39. > :27:43.quality of apprenticeships. And importantly, we will build some
:27:43. > :27:50.links with schools that will help replace the careers advice deficit
:27:50. > :27:56.that we have at the moment. There are quite significant industry -
:27:56. > :28:03.school links. I started teaching in 1973 and we had them then. In
:28:03. > :28:06.teaching, we regret the lack of proper face-to-face careers guidance
:28:06. > :28:11.and we think careers education should be starting in primary school
:28:11. > :28:17.and be all the way through. You can have all the careers guidance you
:28:17. > :28:21.want but one in three school leavers to not have basic numerous sea and
:28:21. > :28:26.literacy skills. There is a debate about what basic numerous sea and
:28:26. > :28:32.literacy means. We have half the country getting GCSE maths and
:28:32. > :28:39.English, a to C, and that is a universal exam, so kids who did not
:28:39. > :28:43.do any exams aren't doing this. you can't get a job because you
:28:43. > :28:49.haven't got the basic maths and literacy skills, the debate is
:28:49. > :28:53.irrelevant. The employers have decided the debate. Why do so many
:28:53. > :29:03.young children leave our schools without a sick maths and literacy
:29:03. > :29:03.
:29:03. > :29:09.skills? I am contesting the point about basic literacy and maths. We
:29:09. > :29:14.are a dressing... I am saying, for example, London schools are doing
:29:14. > :29:17.the very best in the country and that is because of schools working
:29:17. > :29:24.together and with other people. Those things are being addressed
:29:24. > :29:28.through the system. In the way I read the report, these people are
:29:28. > :29:33.getting jobs and then employers are seeking to address this. There is
:29:33. > :29:40.probably a discussion we can have about making sure there is an
:29:40. > :29:47.agreement earlier on. Let him reply. She must be saying that there aren't
:29:47. > :29:52.these problems. There are but the critical issue is for the most part
:29:53. > :29:57.we have made some progress on this. You started off saying things rarely
:29:57. > :30:02.change. Actually we are in a better place today on literacy than we were
:30:02. > :30:08.ten years ago. The issue is the one son Michael Wilshaw pointed to
:30:08. > :30:15.yesterday, that we have these pockets of underachievement driven
:30:15. > :30:18.in particular by a focus on getting people over the C grade GCSE
:30:18. > :30:22.boundary, which encourages you not to bother with the people there were
:30:22. > :30:27.down, and that leads to the fact that there is a significant minority
:30:28. > :30:35.of young people who are not being well served. Your report says 41%
:30:35. > :30:39.cannot solve problems, 54% have poor self management. That is because
:30:39. > :30:47.there are perverse incentives in the education system. If schools are
:30:47. > :30:51.focusing on getting kids across the C grade boundary, and not focusing
:30:51. > :30:56.on creating rounded and grounded young people, that appears twice in
:30:56. > :31:02.the introduction to the CBI report and we agree with that. We need to
:31:02. > :31:05.make sure the whole young person is developed. Problem-solving skills
:31:05. > :31:15.are critical, creativity is critical, so just focusing on
:31:15. > :31:18.getting a grade C is not enough. We need to be making sure that we are
:31:18. > :31:22.dealing with the whole young person so that actually they are more able
:31:22. > :31:27.to be self-starters, to be self managing, and to deal with
:31:27. > :31:37.creativity and solving. Did you talk to the NUJ before producing this
:31:37. > :31:44.
:31:44. > :31:52.report? We had a steering group, talked to them. Have you contributed
:31:52. > :31:57.to this report? Not to this report we will be working together going
:31:57. > :32:07.forward. We are all in favour of industry. People need jobs! Would do
:32:07. > :32:12.you make of it? If those two sticks are true, I think it is shocking. --
:32:12. > :32:16.statistics. We here at all the time, employers saying that kids are
:32:16. > :32:24.leaving school and they can't construct a sentence and it is
:32:24. > :32:29.terrible. Not all employers say that, they will be some people whose
:32:29. > :32:33.literacy need some support, but the fact is there are large numbers of
:32:33. > :32:36.people who are now doing public examinations who didn't do them
:32:36. > :32:40.before and actually who are perfectly literate and numerate. It
:32:40. > :32:47.is not the case to say there are swathes of these people. The point
:32:47. > :32:55.that Neal picked up on, that there are pockets... 50% need extra
:32:55. > :32:59.training according to this report, so there are swathes! There should
:32:59. > :33:03.be a responsibility on business to provide training. You are saying
:33:03. > :33:07.about time management, there are two points here, one is that we have a
:33:07. > :33:11.huge focus on getting people passing exams, identikit is all about that,
:33:11. > :33:19.it is not about sending everyone to university. It should be on life
:33:19. > :33:26.skills... But it is about getting basic reading, writing and
:33:26. > :33:29.arithmetic... You are talking about those things and of course they are
:33:29. > :33:33.important but then you are talking about time management and those
:33:33. > :33:40.skills as well, and there is very little emphasis on that in schools
:33:40. > :33:42.and universities because everyone is going after the grades. Doesn't this
:33:42. > :33:48.report highlight again the long-running weakness in British
:33:48. > :33:54.education. All the political elite consecrate an academic excellence
:33:55. > :34:04.and they have never given, unlike the Germans, due weight to
:34:04. > :34:10.education? We would like to give the idea that vocational education is
:34:10. > :34:16.important, but we identify in the report is a shortage of skills at
:34:16. > :34:25.level four, in the first couple of years of university, in key
:34:25. > :34:27.technical things that underpin the industrial strategy. If you talk to
:34:27. > :34:31.businesses around the country, they will say for every engineering
:34:31. > :34:35.graduate they hire, they hire ten people doing technician work and
:34:35. > :34:42.unless we can get good people from our schools understanding that these
:34:42. > :34:52.jobs are available and getting them into them to build the new DLR...
:34:52. > :34:53.
:34:53. > :34:56.That vocational education should be regarded as just as important.
:34:56. > :35:00.things we think of as vocational are completely different from other
:35:00. > :35:03.things we think of now as vocational. I am bound to say there
:35:03. > :35:08.is no pushback from the National union of teachers about the fact we
:35:08. > :35:15.need good quality vocational education. The other thing is the
:35:16. > :35:21.thing of modern foreign languages. If it hadn't been in and out,
:35:21. > :35:26.voluntary, compulsory, we would be in a better position with that.
:35:26. > :35:32.the Daily Politics we are fluent in that! We may proceed with the rest
:35:32. > :35:38.of the programme. We are glad to have brought you to together. Thank
:35:38. > :35:44.you both. Tomorrow marks the fifth anniversary of the arrival in
:35:44. > :35:49.Tilbury, Essex, of HMS Windrush. -- 65th anniversary. On board with the
:35:49. > :35:53.first wave of immigrants from the Caribbean, lowered by us to what was
:35:53. > :36:00.then regarded as the mother country with the promise of work and a new
:36:00. > :36:10.life. We were in those days short of labour. Let's have a look at how the
:36:10. > :36:11.
:36:11. > :36:14.news was covered back in 1948. Empire Windrush brings to Britain
:36:14. > :36:18.500 Jamaicans, many are ex-servicemen who know England. They
:36:18. > :36:21.served this country well. In Jamaica they couldn't find work. Discouraged
:36:21. > :36:26.but full of hope, they sailed to Britain, coming to the mother
:36:26. > :36:31.country with good intent, prodded by public opinion. The Colonial office
:36:31. > :36:40.gives them a more cordial reception than was at first envisaged. Our
:36:40. > :36:50.reporter asks them what they want to do. To seek a job. Anything that can
:36:50. > :36:51.
:36:51. > :37:01.get a good pay. What is your name? Lord Kitchener. London is the place
:37:01. > :37:02.
:37:02. > :37:12.for me... London, this lovely city... You can go to France or
:37:12. > :37:12.
:37:12. > :37:15.America, India, Asia or Australia, but you must come back to London...
:37:15. > :37:20.The think tank British Future is leading the celebration of the
:37:20. > :37:26.positive contribution to British education and we're joined by its
:37:26. > :37:32.director, Sunder Katwala. Just to stick with the people who came off
:37:32. > :37:37.the HMS Windrush all those years ago, when they arrived here, they
:37:37. > :37:42.came here, they have their hats on, they are dressed in suits and shirts
:37:42. > :37:49.and ties. When they got here, this was a country that it isn't today, I
:37:49. > :37:55.would suggest, a pretty widespread racist attitude to people who came
:37:55. > :37:58.from the Caribbean. That was a shock to them, because they were brought
:37:58. > :38:03.up in their schools as British, with Shakespeare, they know the history
:38:03. > :38:08.of Britain, and they think the British people all know the history
:38:08. > :38:12.of Jamaica and where it fits in, so that is a shock, to realise it.
:38:12. > :38:17.There is a sense of people who have come here for a better life, a sense
:38:17. > :38:21.of change and loss on both sides and of conflict over years and decades.
:38:21. > :38:25.Also people have come saying, we might come and go back but you have
:38:25. > :38:32.children and you decide to stay and at that point you fight the place in
:38:32. > :38:36.society. The shock must've been all the more because we had lured them
:38:36. > :38:39.to come, especially in the London area, we needed people to drive the
:38:39. > :38:45.buses, run the tube trains, there was a huge labour shortage the
:38:45. > :38:51.Second World War. So there is an appeal for immigration, this is
:38:51. > :38:57.voluntary immigration. They had been a lot of previous immigration to
:38:57. > :39:00.Britain, but they had to flee, and people had chosen to pay �20 to get
:39:01. > :39:05.a passage. A lot of them are returning to Britain, Sam King who
:39:05. > :39:10.was on the boat, had been in the RAF, he had his medals, he was going
:39:10. > :39:15.back to what he thought was a colony and he didn't want to live in a
:39:15. > :39:25.colony. He wanted to go for a better life. In spite of the racial
:39:25. > :39:27.generation, had the Windrush generation there? There was a lot of
:39:27. > :39:31.conflict, the initial group that came was quite well educated, they
:39:31. > :39:34.didn't get to use their skills, didn't get jobs at the level they
:39:34. > :39:40.would have expected, and the children probably had to fight for a
:39:40. > :39:44.place in society and thought that parents were too deferential and not
:39:44. > :39:48.assertive enough. We still have a lot of anxiety about immigration but
:39:48. > :39:53.the question of who is Britain -- British and who isn't is relatively
:39:53. > :39:58.settled. We now claim the HMS Windrush, it is part of a shared
:39:58. > :40:04.history and it has become symbolic. About a third of us, our parents or
:40:04. > :40:09.grandparents were immigrants. But is it also shared by the whole country?
:40:09. > :40:14.What if your family go back many generations before, do you know
:40:14. > :40:20.share this part of your shared history? The years after the
:40:20. > :40:24.Windrush, there were much bigger waves of aggression to this
:40:24. > :40:28.country, Ugandan Asians, the Kenyan Asians, all those from the
:40:29. > :40:36.subcontinent as well. Then we had the huge influx and the last Labour
:40:36. > :40:43.government. There seems to be consensus now that immigration got
:40:43. > :40:46.kind of out of hand. It is a legitimate debate about what the
:40:46. > :40:49.choice is Britain should make are, but whatever level of immigration
:40:49. > :40:53.you decide to have, welcomed the contribution of those who have come,
:40:53. > :40:58.who have made... It is important that we accept the previous groups
:40:58. > :41:06.that have come as part of that debate, one of the ways people
:41:06. > :41:12.integrate is how we bring about the next wave of immigrants. Have we
:41:12. > :41:18.allowed... The fact is, we have, you only have to go to a northern city
:41:18. > :41:22.and seamless link amenities living on their own. People want to belong
:41:22. > :41:26.to a new society, here you have people who felt they belonged and
:41:26. > :41:30.were told they didn't and earned the right to belong again. People have
:41:30. > :41:36.too want to feel British and Britain has deep say, you are equally part
:41:36. > :41:39.of us. I disagree about the words of multiculturalism, we are a
:41:39. > :41:45.multiethnic society now, we don't have debates about sending them
:41:45. > :41:50.back, do we have a shared society everyone contributes to? It does
:41:50. > :41:53.take time, it can be difficult, but as a society, I think a bid to other
:41:53. > :41:59.European societies and the US we would be getting them more than
:41:59. > :42:02.other countries. One of the things about Windrush Day is whether you
:42:02. > :42:12.have been here for generations, we have a shared response ability to
:42:12. > :42:15.
:42:16. > :42:19.make society work. Would you think? Ed Miliband said that the last
:42:19. > :42:25.Labour government got it wrong. I think it was their policy to
:42:25. > :42:28.increase immigration. I think in this designer Labour party
:42:28. > :42:34.strongholds. There is a failure there of integration is you only
:42:34. > :42:39.need to go to Tower Hamlets, a few miles from here, people are separate
:42:39. > :42:43.from the rest. That is regrettable, and in cities like Bradford as well.
:42:43. > :42:51.It is a very delicate area and a sensitive area as well and David
:42:51. > :42:54.Cameron is quite right, I think, to say he wants to cut immigration.
:42:54. > :43:00.is a dodgy figure, the net figure because it depends on the number of
:43:00. > :43:04.people leaving and that includes just people leaving as well. The
:43:04. > :43:11.political rhetoric now is pretty much, we have had enough immigration
:43:11. > :43:15.for a while, let's get the numbers down, isn't that right? It is, but
:43:15. > :43:19.it feels to me like a knee jerk, negative rhetoric because of the
:43:19. > :43:22.success that UKIP is having. I think it is wonderful we are celebrating
:43:22. > :43:26.this and I think we should be remembering and reminding people how
:43:26. > :43:32.important it is to have migrants coming to this country. The vast
:43:32. > :43:35.majority of people coming to this country is because they want to find
:43:35. > :43:39.jobs and they believe they will do here. They are filling huge numbers
:43:39. > :43:49.of jobs at the youth of Britain are not prepared do. Perhaps because
:43:49. > :43:53.
:43:53. > :43:59.they haven't got the skills! We have these debates, this is the scourge
:43:59. > :44:03.of the welfare state, in the vast majority, that isn't the case.
:44:03. > :44:13.many years, we have come on leaps and bounds. You can still see the
:44:13. > :44:17.old TV footage from Notting Hill of no dogs, no blacks. No Irish, in the
:44:17. > :44:27.windows for vacancies. But where does the debate on immigration and
:44:27. > :44:28.
:44:28. > :44:30.integration go now? Of course you should worry about people who are
:44:30. > :44:32.being racist but the majority of people worried about immigration are
:44:32. > :44:36.not being racist and we should become fluent about having that
:44:36. > :44:46.debate. The Prime Minister wants to reduce immigration, you once more
:44:46. > :44:49.
:44:49. > :44:51.people, but he's celebrating the Windrush generation, it is important
:44:51. > :44:54.to get the foundations right and have the debate about what the
:44:54. > :45:04.choices are. The people who want to say shut the border, that is not the
:45:04. > :45:07.
:45:07. > :45:10.real world. If the pace of change too great,? Is their fairness? You
:45:10. > :45:13.can only be fair to migrants if you are fair to everyone and say, if you
:45:13. > :45:16.get the rules right, then people who want to come and contribute and be
:45:16. > :45:26.part of a society, you have a history. But it is not racist to say
:45:26. > :45:31.
:45:31. > :45:41.we should cut immigration and we tomorrow.
:45:41. > :45:44.Now, have you seen any strange objects in the night sky recently?
:45:44. > :45:47.Maybe you've spotted little green men from Mars having a look around
:45:47. > :45:56.Planet Earth. You might even have spent some time on board ship after
:45:56. > :46:00.being abducted by aliens. It happens to the best of us. Well, if so, this
:46:00. > :46:03.item's for you! Yes, the National Archives have released files today
:46:03. > :46:09.relating to reports of unidentified flying objects made between 2007 and
:46:09. > :46:13.2009. They explain why the Ministry of Defence's UFO desk and telephone
:46:13. > :46:17.hotline were shut down in December 2009 after 50 years service - a
:46:17. > :46:23.victim of government austerity. The decision to axe the MOD desk
:46:23. > :46:25.came despite an increase in UFO reports. Annual sightings rose from
:46:25. > :46:28.an average of 150 a year at the beginning of the century to 520 in
:46:28. > :46:35.2009, before the desk was shut down, as well as 97 Freedom of Information
:46:35. > :46:42.requests. Sightings reported between 2007 and 2009 included "discoid
:46:42. > :46:46.shapes" above Stonehenge. A report that somebody was living with an
:46:46. > :46:56.alien in Carlisle. Even coloured lights just down the road over the
:46:56. > :46:59.Houses of Parliament. So why did the UFO desk face the chop? Well,
:46:59. > :47:03.according to civil servants, after 50 years' work, it had found no
:47:03. > :47:07.evidence of a military threat to the UK and that despite costs going up,
:47:07. > :47:13.it was providing no valuable defence output.
:47:14. > :47:20.Well, if the truth is out there, maybe one of these gentlemen has
:47:20. > :47:23.stumbled over it. We're joined by Dr David Clarke, an expert on UFO
:47:23. > :47:26.history at the National Archives, and Lembit Opik, erstwhile Lib Dem
:47:26. > :47:35.MP, and a lecturer for the Association for the Scientific Study
:47:35. > :47:45.of Anomalous Phenomena. Being a Lib Dem, he is pretty qualified to deal
:47:45. > :47:52.with anomalous phenomena! Greetings. The USA has got a much bigger UFO
:47:52. > :47:57.desk. Had, in the 60s.We are cutting hours down. Because we
:47:57. > :48:02.didn't find anything. It all started with Winston Churchill because he
:48:02. > :48:05.was interviewed by the daily Telegraph in 1954 and his response
:48:05. > :48:11.was that he thought people on other planets should be treated with the
:48:11. > :48:20.contempt they deserve. We have just been talking about what a welcoming
:48:20. > :48:24.country we are! The problem you have is if there are people out there and
:48:24. > :48:32.they are constantly visiting us, some of these sightings may even be
:48:32. > :48:38.true, why did none of them ever land and say hello? My stepmother is
:48:38. > :48:46.Estonian, an alien, that is the same thing. The complaints process is now
:48:46. > :48:52.underway! In a nice way.They do not land because they are not there!
:48:52. > :48:57.beggars belief to think there is no other intelligent life among 6
:48:57. > :49:00.million planets. If there is intelligent life, would they be 10
:49:00. > :49:07.million years ahead? If so they will be making interstellar journey is
:49:07. > :49:11.the way we will. I think if they have made 15 trillion mile
:49:11. > :49:16.journeys, they will be smart enough to cloak themselves from us, we will
:49:16. > :49:23.not be able to see them. Why do they leave the lights on when they
:49:23. > :49:30.arrive? As you well know, most of those UFO observations are made at
:49:30. > :49:37.closing time all over the country and 90 8% of them are explainable,
:49:37. > :49:44.but a small percentage have not been explained and it is a crying shame
:49:44. > :49:48.we have not kept that open. Yes I agree but not with public money.
:49:48. > :49:51.Scientists can do that kind of research. Given the size of the
:49:52. > :50:00.universe, it is perfectly possible there is life somewhere else in the
:50:00. > :50:08.universe. But when you look at the distances involved, I think the
:50:08. > :50:13.nearest Sun, four light-years away, and so many billions of light years
:50:13. > :50:19.away, it is perfectly possible that these will exist and we will never
:50:19. > :50:24.ever crossed paths. Patrick Moore said we could expect a visit once in
:50:24. > :50:31.the entire history of humanity, and yet if you look at these files they
:50:31. > :50:40.are here every night. They are coming to listen to your programme
:50:40. > :50:46.perhaps. Some of them are on it!The bottom line is, the universe ought
:50:46. > :50:54.to be teeming with life. Why haven't they been here already? Because they
:50:54. > :50:59.are too far away. And maybe, no matter how advanced you are, nobody
:50:59. > :51:05.knows how to travel at the speed of light. You do not have to get to the
:51:05. > :51:10.speed of light, you get close to it. If you travel at the speed of light
:51:10. > :51:18.it could take a billion years to come from one of these? I used to do
:51:18. > :51:25.astronomy. You are right. I beg to differ. I will see your astronomy
:51:25. > :51:30.and I will raise you my grandfather, a professional astronomer, and he
:51:30. > :51:35.would say you can make these journeys with advanced technology.
:51:35. > :51:39.In 100 years we have gone from the first flight to the most incredible
:51:39. > :51:44.technology at the space station. What will we be doing in 10,000
:51:44. > :51:54.years? The big danger is that intelligent civilisations could wipe
:51:54. > :52:00.themselves out. If we survive this dangerous nuclear adolescence...
:52:00. > :52:04.want to bring in another point. You want us to believe, I am not arguing
:52:04. > :52:09.that there could be life out there but I do think the distances of the
:52:09. > :52:12.universe mean it is perfectly possible our paths will never cross,
:52:12. > :52:20.but you really want us to believe that some people have come here,
:52:20. > :52:25.have a look, given a wave, and then departed. Not waived.I made that
:52:25. > :52:31.bit up. They will not have made contact because it is too
:52:31. > :52:38.dangerous. We could annihilate ourselves through our lack of
:52:39. > :52:43.immunity between the two planets and the diseases. That is the anomaly.
:52:43. > :52:48.The sad thing is the fact it does not happen maybe means that
:52:48. > :52:55.civilisations do not make it through this dangerous adolescence. But that
:52:55. > :53:00.would mean they could not come here in the first place. That is one grim
:53:00. > :53:05.possibility. I choose to believe we can survive and if we can survive we
:53:05. > :53:09.will eventually meet our alien friends. With the Daily Mail, you
:53:09. > :53:14.must be used to working with aliens. This is a lovely idea and
:53:14. > :53:22.perhaps if they did come, they didn't stay because they didn't like
:53:22. > :53:26.the weather, and who could blame them? Babe all seem to come -- they
:53:26. > :53:31.all seem to come to the south-west of the United States! They have
:53:31. > :53:37.visited Stonehenge. They saw Prime Minister 's questions and that was
:53:37. > :53:47.enough, out of here! Does the Huffington Post have a line on
:53:47. > :53:47.
:53:47. > :53:51.aliens? Bobbins. -- no. Maybe we should get one. This is officially
:53:51. > :53:58.the weirdest thing I have ever been asked to comment on! Then we will
:53:58. > :54:04.move on. We will let you go now. When they make contact with you, we
:54:04. > :54:14.want to know first! The scoop is ours! Will be get the first
:54:14. > :54:15.
:54:15. > :54:18.interview? I won 20 of your other percent in that case. It is a deal.
:54:18. > :54:25.Thank you, gentlemen. Now, if you think that was strange,
:54:25. > :54:28.it's been pretty weird here on Planet Politics this week too. From
:54:28. > :54:30.tie-less leaders to the President of the United States confusing the
:54:30. > :54:40.Chancellor of the Exchequer with his favourite soul singer, here's the
:54:40. > :54:42.
:54:42. > :54:51.week in 60 Seconds. The G8 in Lough Erne, Syria was on
:54:51. > :54:57.the agenda along with tax, trade and transparency. As well as ties.
:54:57. > :55:01.what I was told to do. Good boy. After Frankenstein food it is
:55:01. > :55:06.apparently time to bring the GM industry back to life according to
:55:06. > :55:11.Owen Paterson. Politicians saying things are safe risk coming a
:55:11. > :55:16.cropper. Not been much quality in the care quality remission after
:55:16. > :55:20.claims it covered up and expects and of a hospital where mums and babies
:55:20. > :55:30.had died -- the Care Quality Commission. And Boris said that
:55:30. > :55:31.
:55:31. > :55:37.London is to the suit as Parma is to the Parmesan cheese. And Mr
:55:37. > :55:47.President's bungle after calling George Jeffrey. That of course is
:55:47. > :55:49.
:55:49. > :55:52.not his name. It is Gideon. George, Jeffrey, Gideon have to
:55:52. > :55:58.deliver the spending review next week and we will be live on the
:55:58. > :56:03.daily politics. My understanding, there is still quite a lot of
:56:03. > :56:07.argument on between the Treasury and the government departments. All the
:56:07. > :56:12.champions of the austerity cuts are now running government departments
:56:12. > :56:17.that are about to be cut and are getting very upset about it.
:56:17. > :56:24.Understandably none of them want the cuts to hit them. We know education
:56:24. > :56:31.and the NHS will be protected throughout this. This means that the
:56:31. > :56:35.smaller amount of departments will have to take these cuts up to 8%
:56:35. > :56:39.each. If it had been perfectly shared it would have been 2.8% per
:56:39. > :56:43.department. They thought by the time we got to this stage, the economy
:56:43. > :56:47.would be flourishing again and we would be starting to spend and that
:56:47. > :56:55.is just not the case. Danny Alexander will have to say to his
:56:55. > :57:01.Lib Dem colleague Vince Cable, we have to cut some money. Michael Gove
:57:01. > :57:04.will also have to save some money. He is resisting. After the
:57:04. > :57:09.disappointing borrowing figures, it is all the more important George
:57:10. > :57:15.Osborne gets the cuts he wants. does not resonate with the public
:57:15. > :57:21.could it is about public spending in 2015-2016 and the figure could
:57:21. > :57:26.change. This is the problem for the average man and woman on the street.
:57:26. > :57:31.These numbers keep changing. Every time we hear the budget. It means
:57:31. > :57:35.people start to glaze over. It does not affect me, I still have less
:57:35. > :57:40.money in my pocket and therefore I am not happy with the way the
:57:40. > :57:46.country is being run. It is a tough one for Geoffrey Gideon, because he
:57:46. > :57:51.has had problems with his own union of ministers, problems with the
:57:51. > :57:56.coalition, he wanted to cut more welfare. He wanted six billion and
:57:56. > :58:03.Nick Clegg said no. As I understand it, it is going down to the wire,
:58:03. > :58:07.they have not got the 11.5 yen yet. They could always cut international
:58:07. > :58:12.aid which would be popular with the voters but the Prime Minister will
:58:12. > :58:18.not let him do that. I saw what a bad time Nick Clegg got over student
:58:18. > :58:26.tuition fees so they are desperate not to go back on explicit
:58:27. > :58:31.promises, international aid, NHS... Tuition fees was a popular policy
:58:31. > :58:39.for the Lib Dems. Increasing international aid is not a popular
:58:39. > :58:45.policy. You will be tuning in, I hope. Absolutely.The one o'clock
:58:45. > :58:49.news is starting over on BBC One now. I'll be back on BBC One on