:01:49. > :01:51.Daily Politics. The Prime Minister says he's "deeply concerned" by
:01:51. > :01:54.claims that a former undercover police officer was part of an
:01:54. > :02:04.operation to smear the family of the murdered black teenager Stephen
:02:04. > :02:11.
:02:11. > :02:18.Lawrence. Rob it's an extremely important issue for my local
:02:19. > :02:28.community. To find out the police were withholding information, you do
:02:29. > :02:31.
:02:31. > :02:37.so on the basis that you are trusting everyone... This was
:02:37. > :02:42.necessary because of the failings back then. If the allegations are
:02:42. > :02:48.true, it is really alarming. Having heard Jack Straw talk about this,
:02:48. > :02:52.were officers really going to provide that information to either
:02:52. > :03:02.himself, who at the time was the head of the police authority, or the
:03:02. > :03:02.
:03:02. > :03:06.MacPherson enquiry. This special demonstration squad that this
:03:06. > :03:12.undercover officer was part of was funded by the Home Office. They were
:03:12. > :03:15.set up to investigate political activity. Why you would think the
:03:15. > :03:20.family of the murdered teenager were political activists because they
:03:20. > :03:25.were campaigning for justice for their dead son is beyond me, but
:03:25. > :03:29.they were there to investigate political activity. Who sanctioned
:03:29. > :03:39.it and who with they reporting to? We know that the former commissioner
:03:39. > :03:40.
:03:40. > :03:44.said he knew nothing of them. If it was funded by the Home Office then
:03:44. > :03:47.someone quite senior knew about it. I remember this very well. At the
:03:47. > :03:51.time that the MacPherson report was first written and was about to be
:03:51. > :03:58.published, lots of it was leaked from within the Home Office. It was
:03:58. > :04:03.a real scandal at the time. That needs to be looked at again. What do
:04:03. > :04:08.you want to hear from the Home Secretary? An independent public
:04:08. > :04:12.enquiry. It cannot go through the IPC sea, but the IPCC will end up
:04:12. > :04:19.with the police investigating the police. It will not be good enough.
:04:19. > :04:24.Even -- either it is the MacPherson enquiry again, which I suspect can't
:04:24. > :04:34.be the case, but the new enquiry needs to look at this. Do you agree
:04:34. > :04:34.
:04:34. > :04:39.that the level of enquiry we need? do. It's very worrying. It can't be
:04:39. > :04:43.done internally, unfortunately. Sadly, this happens with a lot of
:04:43. > :04:47.public bodies, but particularly trusting the police is essential,
:04:48. > :04:56.particularly where issues of race are concerned. An independent
:04:56. > :04:59.enquiry is needed. What about reaction from the family? I'm due to
:04:59. > :05:03.call the trust. My officers made arrangements for me to do that. I
:05:03. > :05:08.will be speaking to them when I get off the air. I would imagine that
:05:08. > :05:11.the family are saddened by the fact that their suspicions have been
:05:11. > :05:16.proven to be true, because they were always suspicious about why the
:05:16. > :05:20.police were asking about so many details. But also to find out that
:05:20. > :05:24.the inquiry, which was such a milestone for race relations in this
:05:24. > :05:29.country, is still being dragged into the gutter by the actions of
:05:29. > :05:33.Metropolitan Police officers. This is people at senior level. Police
:05:33. > :05:36.officers must be demoralised if this constantly keeps happening. But the
:05:36. > :05:40.senior officers who made these decisions, we've got to hold them to
:05:40. > :05:44.account. People are losing faith in the political process because they
:05:44. > :05:48.see these people are very senior levels not paying the price for
:05:48. > :05:58.being dishonest. They may not have been financially corrupt, but this
:05:58. > :05:59.
:05:59. > :06:08.is a form of corruption, it deserves people to pay a heavy price. Any
:06:08. > :06:15.organisation is capable of some way of being secretive. We have seen it
:06:15. > :06:20.at the CQC. Embarrassing reports. People are fed up with this. It is
:06:20. > :06:24.time when politicians set up enquiries, that these things come
:06:24. > :06:29.with the full backing and the force of the law, so that people treat
:06:29. > :06:33.them with respect. That they do not hide information in this way.
:06:33. > :06:37.Clive Efford, thank you very much. Now let's have a look at the week
:06:37. > :06:41.ahead: Tomorrow 1,000 members of the National Union of Teachers are
:06:41. > :06:44.expected to descend on Westminster. Continuing their dispute over pay
:06:45. > :06:52.and conditions. On Wednesday, the Chancellor takes
:06:52. > :06:57.centre-stage when he outlines the Government's spending cuts for
:06:57. > :07:00.15/16. On Thursday, Danny Alexander is outlining plans for
:07:00. > :07:05.infrastructure and the Office of National Statistics will be
:07:05. > :07:12.publishing quarrel figures for growth. So joining us from a cloudy
:07:12. > :07:17.College Green are kem kep kem from the Times and Alliance & Leicester
:07:17. > :07:23.from the myrrh. Norman Kember, the negotiations are over, and no blood
:07:23. > :07:29.has been spilled, are you surprised. -- myrrh.
:07:29. > :07:34.There has been surprise. Vince Cable has said that there has
:07:34. > :07:38.been a fight over this. The key figure is to remember at this stage,
:07:38. > :07:44.that this is presented in a harmonious deal. The Treasury looks
:07:44. > :07:48.like they have acted efficiently and thoroughly. The real test comes on
:07:48. > :07:52.Wednesday afternoon when George Osborne gives the details to the
:07:52. > :07:56.House when the officials over Whitehall sit down to try to make it
:07:56. > :08:02.work. Alliance & Leicester, I was looking
:08:03. > :08:11.forward to seeing somebody sent to the star chamber but how painful
:08:11. > :08:15.will the cuts be? -- James Lyons. There is no doubt that the cuts will
:08:15. > :08:19.be difficult. They will be deep. They come after a string of other
:08:19. > :08:26.austerity measures. We have seen ministers saying that they have cut
:08:26. > :08:31.the fat. So precisely where they fall we don't quite know, but they
:08:31. > :08:37.will genuinely hurt some people. One of the groups we know it will hurt
:08:37. > :08:43.are the pensioners. The Chancellor was saying yesterday that free TV
:08:43. > :08:47.licence, bus passes will be up for review after the next elections.
:08:47. > :08:51.Pensioners could be feeling more of the pain than they recently have
:08:51. > :08:58.been. And Labour have been looking at that
:08:58. > :09:03.too, discussing their plans for ending universal benefits, but Billy
:09:03. > :09:09.Kember, from the outside looking in, was it not as difficult to find the
:09:09. > :09:13.�11. 5 billion cuts or wr were they even as much as that? We will not
:09:13. > :09:21.know until we have seen the detail it is difficult to see what has been
:09:21. > :09:25.cut as James said. We know that some departments have come in at lightly
:09:25. > :09:30.under the 8 to 10%. So the Home Office have done well in that
:09:30. > :09:36.respect and others like Eric Pickles and the local government departments
:09:36. > :09:41.are up there at 10%. We will not know how bad it is. As James has
:09:41. > :09:45.said, the fat has gone. So it is difficult to see where they can find
:09:45. > :09:50.9 savings. What about George Osborne's . How
:09:50. > :09:54.important is that? Well, he is clearly trying to stage something of
:09:54. > :09:59.a comeback after the disastrous budget last year. What he has to
:09:59. > :10:05.hope is that if thing things don't start to unravel again. I think that
:10:05. > :10:12.all eyes are on Wimbledon this week. The Chancellor will want to hope to
:10:12. > :10:17.play a few strokes of his own in setting out the review early. He
:10:17. > :10:21.could have set it out next year. He has tried to force Labour's hand.
:10:21. > :10:26.They are looking at the winter fuel allowance, but there is a feeling in
:10:26. > :10:33.Labour it is making them face up to difficult choices and that is no bad
:10:33. > :10:37.thing. James Lyons and Billy Kember, thank
:10:37. > :10:42.you very much. Robert, it is high time to hear what
:10:42. > :10:46.Labour are going to do in terms of cuts. They have now signed up to
:10:46. > :10:52.George Osborne's plans? Well, Ed Miliband said he was worried that
:10:52. > :10:57.people would start slapping the plans if they announced them too
:10:57. > :11:00.early, but I find that difficult to listen to. The real problem is when
:11:01. > :11:04.the cuts hit our society. I am concerned about teaching, for
:11:04. > :11:09.example, about science. Both of which is are essential for the
:11:09. > :11:12.health of the future of our society. I fear that we may be in for another
:11:12. > :11:16.greater austerity still. I think that will be very, very
:11:16. > :11:20.uncomfortable. Right. You mention education. Vince
:11:20. > :11:25.Cable is battling over further education, but that is ring-fenced,
:11:25. > :11:30.a little like health. Do you think it is time to look at the principle
:11:30. > :11:34.of ring-fencing certain departments to make it a priority? I think that
:11:34. > :11:41.the health service needs a different review from the one that Lansley
:11:41. > :11:45.gave it. I think what he did was expensive. Once you start
:11:46. > :11:49.contracting more into the private sector, the private sector charges
:11:49. > :11:53.what it thinks that the market will hold, rather than the cost of
:11:53. > :11:58.treatment. In the health service, a problem is that many treatments, if
:11:59. > :12:05.not most, are not properly costed. We should look hard at the NHS.
:12:05. > :12:09.What about pensions? That has been controversial, Ed Miliband's
:12:09. > :12:15.announcement that they would include pensions in an overall cap on
:12:15. > :12:19.welfare as pensions makes up a large proportion of it? To hold pensions
:12:19. > :12:25.still is tricky at the present time. I think that some of the benefits to
:12:25. > :12:29.pensioners should be looked at more carefully. I am not sure why I need
:12:29. > :12:34.a free bus pass or a winter fuel benefit it is unreasonable for me to
:12:34. > :12:37.have those sorts of benefits. So those sorts of things should be
:12:37. > :12:43.looked at more. What about the Welfare Bill overall?
:12:43. > :12:49.Do you think Labour must spell out more clearly? Yes, I do.What would
:12:49. > :12:55.you like to hear them say? It is your party! They have to focus on
:12:55. > :12:59.the key issues for our society. To see where we can stimulate growth.
:12:59. > :13:04.One issue, certainly, I don't see George Osborne having a clear vision
:13:04. > :13:10.of where the society is going. I don't see him having a vision of
:13:10. > :13:15.where we will be in the future. Even though there are forecasts that
:13:15. > :13:21.suggest modest growths. It is too little too late. Is is it right for
:13:21. > :13:26.Ed Balls to admit he would borrow more in 2015/16, despite the fact
:13:26. > :13:31.that he admits that debt is rising and the deficit is not coming down?
:13:31. > :13:34.I said he should do that two years ago. I think that we all need to
:13:34. > :13:39.borrow more. You need to get people working.
:13:39. > :13:42.But can we afford it? If you have these projects going on, you will
:13:42. > :13:44.increase the economy. Certainly there is no evidence we are doing
:13:44. > :13:49.that at the moment. Thank you very much.
:13:49. > :13:54.We will have the details of that Spending Review on Wednesday.
:13:54. > :13:59.Now, would you want to access your own GP records online? In two years
:13:59. > :14:03.you could be able to do that. Provided that the IT project
:14:03. > :14:07.delivers it on time and it does not have the teething problems
:14:07. > :14:14.associated with similar big Government projects. Here is David
:14:14. > :14:19.with more. Computer servers, the machines that
:14:19. > :14:22.these days make the world tick and could mean for the health service in
:14:22. > :14:26.England the revolution will be digitised.
:14:26. > :14:30.The idea is to use IT to revolutionise healthcare in England
:14:30. > :14:35.it is called the power of information, it should do what it
:14:35. > :14:39.says on the tin. Using data to give patients knowledge and chase and to
:14:40. > :14:43.give the professionals speedy access to records so that treatment is
:14:43. > :14:47.faster, better and more cost effective.
:14:47. > :14:52.The idea is that information is as important to healthcare as drugs or
:14:52. > :14:57.doctors or nurses. The idea is that far better transparency of
:14:57. > :15:01.information on performance, on outcomes, it is going to be
:15:01. > :15:06.transformational to the health service and to give rise to a range
:15:06. > :15:09.of digital services where people can Skype their doctor, order
:15:09. > :15:14.prescription refills and take better control of their health and well
:15:14. > :15:18.being. Good, but the power of information is not just about being
:15:18. > :15:23.open and transparent it is about saving NHS England lots of cash. In
:15:23. > :15:27.the way that bajs have cut costs by dealing with customers online rather
:15:27. > :15:32.than over the counter, but the officials were unable to confirm a
:15:32. > :15:37.cost to the project. Will it deliver the promise of saving billions?
:15:37. > :15:45.cost is lower than four years ago. We have seen in other systems how
:15:45. > :15:51.cost effective this kind of people-led healthcare can really be.
:15:51. > :15:55.So we anticipate and we are modelling savings to the NHS as a
:15:55. > :16:02.whole. Every patient in England could have
:16:02. > :16:09.access to GP medical records by 2015 and have health and social care
:16:09. > :16:13.details across the internet by 2018. The NHS has not always hit it off,
:16:13. > :16:23.but the creators believe that if this information is wired into the
:16:23. > :16:39.
:16:39. > :16:45.system. It could be different. might have patients carrying their
:16:45. > :16:53.own smartcards. It might have been a much better idea at the time. But
:16:53. > :17:02.also the notion of patients getting in touch via Skype with their
:17:02. > :17:07.doctor, would you do that? It's a slightly surreal idea but you never
:17:07. > :17:13.know what might happen. Looking at basic IT projects, and we know the
:17:13. > :17:18.scandals that have occurred in the past, do you think it can work? This
:17:18. > :17:22.time the technology should be cheaper to deliver. There's a very
:17:22. > :17:29.real reason for needing better computerisation of records. But we
:17:29. > :17:34.know there are now sophisticated algorithms that show you can reduce
:17:34. > :17:37.adverse effects of drugs and so on. The real issue is if you use
:17:37. > :17:41.computing properly, you can input some of the knowledge we have from
:17:41. > :17:47.genetic information. That is a big thing for the health service, but so
:17:47. > :17:51.far we are not tackling that. know if there is a demand from
:17:51. > :17:55.people to access their information online? What people want is a doctor
:17:55. > :18:00.who will listen to them, sit there and not look at his watch, he will
:18:00. > :18:05.be prepared to indulge in a proper conversation. IT will not substitute
:18:05. > :18:11.for that. What about your bill that will be introduced on labelling
:18:11. > :18:16.medicine, they've involved animal research in their development.
:18:16. > :18:21.gone through its first reading. The idea is that every drug which has
:18:21. > :18:25.been produced as a result of animal research should be labelled as such,
:18:25. > :18:30.that the drug has been produced as a result of animal research. I want to
:18:30. > :18:34.have much more transparency. I want people to recognise that animal
:18:34. > :18:41.research is essential for human health, as it is for animal health.
:18:41. > :18:45.It will be controversial. What reaction will you get? We will have
:18:45. > :18:48.a lot of debate. I bet it will go to the House of Lords. I would be
:18:48. > :18:51.surprised if it didn't go through the House of Lords will stop one of
:18:51. > :18:57.the issues is whether or not the pharmaceutical industry can see the
:18:57. > :19:01.benefits of their doing this. I hope they can. What consultation have you
:19:01. > :19:08.had with them? I've had mixed messages from the people I've spoken
:19:08. > :19:12.to. On a whole, most of the people are highly positive, because they
:19:12. > :19:16.feel that this offers protection, recognising that this kind of
:19:16. > :19:20.research properly done under human circumstances, is a very good way of
:19:20. > :19:23.proceeding. But they don't want to be in the firing line of any
:19:23. > :19:27.assaults or attacks. People have known for a long time that people
:19:27. > :19:33.like myself have been doing animal research and humane conditions. I
:19:33. > :19:42.think we should be right up there and upfront. If every university
:19:42. > :19:45.that does research says this, it could be quite helpful. Top up fees.
:19:45. > :19:48.They've become the norm when it comes to paying for university
:19:48. > :19:51.education. But could we soon be forking out for our NHS treatment as
:19:51. > :19:54.well? Senior doctors will use today's British Medical Association
:19:54. > :20:01.annual meeting to warn that a health care system free at the point of use
:20:01. > :20:05.can no longer be sustained. So what are they proposing? Well, surgeons,
:20:05. > :20:08.consultants and GPs want the government to draw up a list of core
:20:08. > :20:11.services so that patients know what they can expect for free from the
:20:11. > :20:15.NHS. But the BMA are arguing that treatments and medications outside
:20:15. > :20:17.this list can no longer be ruled out. Doctors say that the pressure
:20:17. > :20:19.of making �20 billion in efficiency savings by 2015, combined with
:20:19. > :20:27.rising patient expectations and increasingly expensive medical
:20:27. > :20:29.treatments mean the NHS is at crunch point. Currently payment for
:20:29. > :20:32.dentistry is widespread, and eye tests and prescriptions are
:20:32. > :20:39.means-tested, while many health trusts have refused to fund weight
:20:39. > :20:42.loss surgery. But many critics argue top-up charges are contrary to the
:20:42. > :20:50.ethos of the NHS and could start a slippery slope to privatisation
:20:50. > :20:52.through the back door. I'm joined now by the Deputy Chair of the BMA's
:20:52. > :21:02.GP Committee, Dr Richard Vautney, who is at the conference in
:21:02. > :21:03.
:21:03. > :21:08.Edinburgh. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Is this, our top-up fees
:21:08. > :21:12.really the future for the NHS? don't believe so. I'm sure that
:21:12. > :21:15.doctors he will not support that. What doctors are saying is that
:21:15. > :21:20.politicians are very good at promising lots of things, but not
:21:20. > :21:23.very good in providing us with the resources to do it. We want the
:21:23. > :21:26.resources to provide the highest quality care to our patients, and
:21:26. > :21:36.yet GPs and doctors in hospitals are regularly being told they have to
:21:36. > :21:53.
:21:53. > :21:55.work harder and longer to provide potentially routine services on a
:21:55. > :21:57.Saturday and Sunday or on an evening, which could potentially
:21:57. > :22:00.damage the services we already provide during the working day. We
:22:00. > :22:03.need to be very clear what the NHS can afford to provide and how good
:22:03. > :22:05.it needs to be doing that. What in your mind can the NHS in its current
:22:05. > :22:08.financial situation afford to provide? What are the core services
:22:08. > :22:10.that you feel must be retained? think everyone would expect to be
:22:10. > :22:13.able to walk into their general practitioner and be able to get
:22:13. > :22:16.every service that they get today. And to get the level of care that
:22:16. > :22:18.they get in their hospitals as well. They do get that urgently, 20 47.
:22:18. > :22:21.Doctors are working day and night, both in hospitals and out of hours,
:22:21. > :22:23.to provide good levels of service. But we do need to question things
:22:23. > :22:26.like cosmetic surgery, whether that is something that can be provided on
:22:26. > :22:32.the NHS. Whether Barrack is brain surgery is appropriate on the NHS.
:22:32. > :22:39.What we've seen in recent years is a covert rationing happening invites #
:22:39. > :22:42.various Primary Care Trusts up and down the country, where in some
:22:42. > :22:44.areas you can get those services but since America is you can't. We need
:22:44. > :22:49.an honest debate about those services. You've raised the idea
:22:49. > :22:54.that those perhaps should be paid for. You've mentioned cosmetic
:22:54. > :23:02.surgery. What about hair transplants, weight loss surgery -
:23:02. > :23:07.should be charged? That's why we need to have an debate. What do you
:23:07. > :23:10.believe? That is something that will be debated. It is one of the
:23:10. > :23:14.challengers. When you start to look at individual elements, you will
:23:14. > :23:19.have people who will make a case for that particular service to be
:23:19. > :23:24.provided. It's important we do that openly and honestly. What is your
:23:24. > :23:28.response to that? I'm a member of the BMA and his answer is typical of
:23:28. > :23:33.the BMA. It's all very well to say that varicose vein surgery shouldn't
:23:33. > :23:37.be on the NHS. They cause significant discomfort and dangerous
:23:37. > :23:42.to patients. By removing them, you can do something which should be
:23:42. > :23:45.under the NHS. But there are ways we ought to be looking at the NHS in a
:23:45. > :23:50.completely different view. For example, to some extent humans don't
:23:50. > :23:54.value what they don't pay for. I remember my clinic, which was one of
:23:54. > :24:01.the most popular clinics at Hammersmith Hospital. I still had 15
:24:01. > :24:04.to 20% of my patients not turning up from the local area because it was
:24:04. > :24:11.inconvenient, not even that the appointment was made well in
:24:11. > :24:15.advance. That is shopping. people should be charged. 200 quid a
:24:15. > :24:19.time is what it cost. What do you think, should people be charged if
:24:19. > :24:22.they missed GP appointments or hospital appointments? The people
:24:22. > :24:26.who could be charged could well be the people who could least afford
:24:26. > :24:30.it. You would end up with an exemption system that would be more
:24:30. > :24:34.complex and bureaucratic to impose. Whilst the theory may be worth
:24:34. > :24:38.looking at, the practicalities would make it too expensive. It could
:24:38. > :24:42.maybe not be the thing to look at. The key thing is to focus on how we
:24:42. > :24:46.can ensure that the quality of services that we are currently
:24:46. > :24:50.providing properly resourced, without trying to extend them into
:24:50. > :24:53.evenings or weekends. I have to say that I did the research on the
:24:54. > :24:57.patients who didn't turn up. The patients who didn't turn up were
:24:57. > :25:00.often the most well-heeled patients. The patients who came from poor
:25:00. > :25:05.backgrounds and depressed areas kept their appointment is much more
:25:05. > :25:10.regularly. Can I clarify the premise that the NHS can no longer provide
:25:10. > :25:15.everything for free at a high-quality, it's no longer viable,
:25:15. > :25:20.is it? I don't know. The question is whether the structure as it is is
:25:20. > :25:24.right. We talk about increasing privatisation, but increasing
:25:24. > :25:28.privatisation happened as soon as Lansley introduced his bill and once
:25:28. > :25:34.that act went through Parliament. That's a very big cost to the health
:25:34. > :25:36.service. That happened under Labour, too, about some services
:25:36. > :25:40.being provided from private companies as opposed to people
:25:40. > :25:45.paying when the NHS is supposed to be free at the point of use. My view
:25:45. > :25:50.is not a political view entirely. There's a big difference between the
:25:50. > :25:56.two governments, but you are right, Labour did introduce something and
:25:56. > :25:59.didn't change their idea, which I think was a mistake. You may be
:25:59. > :26:04.having a very honest debate about what is viable to be provided by the
:26:04. > :26:08.NHS in the future, but do you believe, whatever you decide, that
:26:08. > :26:13.any politician and any government would make a decision to start
:26:13. > :26:18.charging for cosmetic surgery, IVF, breast reduction and enlargement?
:26:18. > :26:22.don't think they would do that openly but the reality is that for
:26:22. > :26:25.the last five to ten years, that has been happening. Primary Care Trusts,
:26:25. > :26:29.on the behest of the Department of Health, have been making these
:26:29. > :26:34.decisions and have been limiting what is available in particular
:26:34. > :26:38.areas. And it saves very little money. It does, but we do need to
:26:38. > :26:42.ensure that everybody gets fair treatment wherever they live, there
:26:42. > :26:46.shouldn't be postcode rationing. should think that Matthew think it
:26:46. > :26:51.should be clear across the board. You don't think it saves much money?
:26:51. > :26:54.We are in broad agreement. The problem is that any of these
:26:54. > :26:58.measures don't save the sort of money we need to save if we are
:26:58. > :27:04.going to make the NHS more efficient. The question is how we
:27:04. > :27:08.funded on the wider scale. That is a much bigger problem. I agree with
:27:08. > :27:12.Lord Winston on that. Particularly I agree with him with his concerns
:27:12. > :27:17.about the cost of the competition agenda, which this government and
:27:17. > :27:21.the last government have pursued. To have a competition and market, you
:27:21. > :27:28.need to have surplus supply. That in itself is an expensive commodity
:27:28. > :27:31.that we can ill afford. Before you go, let's have a look at the Care
:27:31. > :27:37.Quality Commission and the scandal that has been revealed about that
:27:37. > :27:42.report. Do you think an overhaul of the CQC is appropriate for now?
:27:42. > :27:46.think they need, whoever is regulating the health service, need
:27:46. > :27:49.the resources to be able to do it properly. One of the challengers for
:27:49. > :27:53.the CQC is that they were brought together from various other
:27:53. > :27:57.organisations, they were given an almost impossible task to do. What
:27:57. > :28:00.we've seen is how difficult that task has been and the shocking
:28:01. > :28:06.stories we've seen from both mid Staffordshire and Morecambe Bay and
:28:06. > :28:10.elsewhere. It shows we do need a body who can ask the right questions
:28:10. > :28:15.and get the right answers. Whoever is doing that needs the resources to
:28:15. > :28:20.be able to do that properly. I can't quite tell if that's a yes or no to
:28:20. > :28:24.an overhaul. I agree completely. That was debated during the passage
:28:24. > :28:29.of the health act. But we don't have that in place yet. We need to look
:28:29. > :28:37.at it carefully, looking at the CQC. And whether it should be completely
:28:37. > :28:41.overhauled. Thank you for joining us. And the special thank you to
:28:41. > :28:47.Robert Winston for being our guest of the day. That is it for today. I