:00:50. > :00:53.The sun is out here at Westminster, so join us as we discuss a huge pay
:00:53. > :00:56.rise for MPs. Yes, it looks like the poor things will have one
:00:56. > :00:59.forced upon them by the independent authority they set up to decide
:00:59. > :01:03.such matters. But is it right in a time of austerity? Meanwhile, the
:01:03. > :01:06.Tories want a married couples tax allowance. They are hinting at an
:01:06. > :01:11.announcement in the autumn. But why wait? Croatia became the 28th
:01:11. > :01:17.country to join the European Union at midnight. We will talk to the
:01:17. > :01:20.leaders of a new campaign to fight British withdrawal. And can we
:01:20. > :01:30.still trust the police in the wake of just too many bad headlines
:01:30. > :01:31.
:01:31. > :01:33.about corruption and undercover All that in the next half hour. And,
:01:33. > :01:39.with us for the duration, the former Shadow Home Secretary, David
:01:39. > :01:47.Davis. But first, as I'm sure David will be delighted to learn, is the
:01:47. > :01:54.thorny issue of MPs' pay. Louise Stewart is with us in our newsroom.
:01:54. > :02:00.They get paid �66,000 a year. The proposal is they should get paid 10
:02:00. > :02:08.basil pounds more? Is that right? The proposal is from the body that
:02:08. > :02:12.sets these things was a -- tent �1,000. They should have an
:02:12. > :02:17.increase to �70,000 and then increases on top of that. It has
:02:17. > :02:22.always been a controversial issue. It was decided MP should not decide
:02:22. > :02:28.and set pay levels, it should be done by this independent body. They
:02:28. > :02:33.have suggested what David Cameron has said is unthinkable in the
:02:33. > :02:39.current climate, unless they cut the cost of politics elsewhere. He
:02:39. > :02:43.wanted to cut the number of MPs, which was vetoed by the Liberal
:02:43. > :02:50.Democrats. Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband are saying that, at a time
:02:50. > :02:58.when public sector workers - nurses, teachers, doctors, etc - have been
:02:58. > :03:06.limited to a 1% pay rise until 2016, it would not be right. Should you
:03:06. > :03:14.get a whopping pay rise? At the moment, it is madness, frankly.
:03:14. > :03:20.private sector has come under huge pressure. It is barking mad. It set
:03:20. > :03:26.is out of touch with reality. going to be forced on you. That is
:03:26. > :03:32.ridiculous. Parliament can make its mind up about whatever it wants.
:03:32. > :03:36.The Government may have to legislate to stop it. That would be
:03:36. > :03:43.ridiculous, wouldn't it? I do not think when they started down the
:03:43. > :03:47.road they thought that we would be in the powerless state we are
:03:47. > :03:55.economically and that they would come up with a proposal like this.
:03:55. > :04:01.We do decline to accept it? I would actually propose a motion to stop
:04:01. > :04:06.it. -- which you decline? The public at large will not see the
:04:06. > :04:10.point of this. That is the real issue. If you would put forward a
:04:10. > :04:16.motion to stop it going ahead - she would not say whether you would
:04:16. > :04:22.decline to accept it - is that because in principle, you think the
:04:22. > :04:29.timing is wrong with public sector pay being frozen - in principle, do
:04:29. > :04:35.you think MPs should get paid more? Given the time. This is the wrong
:04:35. > :04:40.time. There is a massive issue about trust in public services
:04:40. > :04:50.generally. Trust in MPs is not at an all-time high. This will do huge
:04:50. > :04:52.
:04:52. > :04:59.damage to the bond between the public and every one. What is
:04:59. > :05:04.proposed really is almost symbolic - it is not very much. It is long
:05:04. > :05:10.overdue. The simple truth is that raising children - the purpose of
:05:10. > :05:15.marriage in the day - his best in a stable household and the most
:05:15. > :05:22.stable are married couples and we should encourage it. Is it a
:05:22. > :05:29.priority for now? I would not wait. There is an autumn statement coming
:05:29. > :05:34.up. Should it be means tested?The thing about the tax allowance is it
:05:34. > :05:38.bites into whatever income you have. A tax allowance is a tax allowance.
:05:38. > :05:43.Test something like that and it becomes very complicated. Despite
:05:43. > :05:51.the problems with child benefit. Look what happened when they are
:05:51. > :05:59.assessed that again. Is this a quid pro quo? I hope not. It is about
:05:59. > :06:03.restoring stable families and married families. Tory backbenchers
:06:03. > :06:12.at the moment feel they have a government that is not quite Toria
:06:12. > :06:15.enough. This would help a bit. right. Thank you. Last night,
:06:15. > :06:17.Croatia officially became the 28th member of the European Union. For
:06:17. > :06:20.many Croats, it was a moment for celebration. Flags were waved,
:06:20. > :06:23.fireworks set off and lots of people put on rather scary wolf
:06:23. > :06:26.heads. But, whilst Croats are celebrating joining the EU, British
:06:26. > :06:32.MPs will vote for the first time this week on a Bill, which could
:06:32. > :06:38.eventually see the UK leaving. And even those who support continued
:06:38. > :06:41.membership argue that the EU is in need of serious reform. A lobby
:06:41. > :06:47.group, Business for a New Europe, is today launching a manifesto for
:06:47. > :06:50.reform of the EU with the backing of MPs from all three main parties.
:06:50. > :06:55.It says the EU should be streamlined - cutting down on
:06:55. > :07:00.regulations and reforming the Common Agricultural Policy. That it
:07:00. > :07:04.needs to focus on free trade with the rest of the world. And that the
:07:04. > :07:08.single market should be extended to all sectors of the economy. The
:07:08. > :07:12.group also has a warning for euro- sceptics. The manifesto argues that
:07:12. > :07:22.Britain will achieve more of what it wants if it gets stuck in rather
:07:22. > :07:25.
:07:25. > :07:28.But is that precisely what MPs are about to do? Another cross-party
:07:28. > :07:32.group is today stepping up the campaign for a referendum on
:07:32. > :07:35.Britain's membership of the EU. And, on Friday, MPs will have their
:07:35. > :07:42.first chance to vote on a Referendum Bill, which calls for a
:07:42. > :07:46.public in-out vote in 2017. It's a Private Members Bill being
:07:46. > :07:49.sponsored by Conservative backbencher James Wharton. He has
:07:49. > :07:52.David Cameron's backing but it could not be brought forward by the
:07:52. > :07:57.Coalition Government because Nick Clegg and the Lib Dems won't
:07:57. > :08:01.support it. And as for Labour... They say the Bill is a Conservative
:08:01. > :08:04.Party stunt and that they will stay away. But Ed Miliband is also under
:08:04. > :08:10.pressure from some of his own MPs to commit to a referendum before
:08:10. > :08:20.the next election. Joining us now is the chairman of Business for New
:08:20. > :08:21.
:08:21. > :08:24.Europe, Roland Rudd. Unless there is the threat of Britain pulling
:08:25. > :08:30.out of the you can make you do not stand a chance of getting any
:08:30. > :08:34.reform. I could not disagree more. We have a great chance of reform.
:08:34. > :08:38.When you go around the Continent and talk to ministers from
:08:38. > :08:43.different countries, they all say, we're hugely supportive of the
:08:43. > :08:48.British competitive agenda. Regarding arguments in respect of
:08:48. > :08:52.what is best for Europe and not just Britain and you will achieve
:08:52. > :08:57.more. That is what we have done for our manifesto for a more
:08:57. > :09:03.competitive Europe. No one would disagree with that. What about this
:09:03. > :09:08.great chance of reform within the EU? I agree with what he wants to
:09:09. > :09:13.do. Absolutely. Except the European Union. We have been making these
:09:13. > :09:18.arguments for two decades, in my memory. I was making some of them
:09:18. > :09:23.myself two decades ago in precisely those terms - it was good for
:09:23. > :09:28.Europe. We had the odd alive. The Germans were on our side, the
:09:28. > :09:32.French never were. -- ally. What has happened in the past two
:09:32. > :09:37.decades has got worse. More regulation and more out of touch
:09:37. > :09:42.with the public at large and more unpopularity. That is true to an
:09:42. > :09:45.extent but right now is our opportunity. We had a senior German
:09:45. > :09:49.minister and supporter at the launch. He did what you said,
:09:49. > :09:55.saying how much he wants to see the things we want to happen in Europe.
:09:55. > :09:58.It is not just Germany. When you go to Spain and Italy, the Italian
:09:58. > :10:08.Prime Minister will be hit in July and he will be supporting the same
:10:08. > :10:08.
:10:08. > :10:13.sort of reforms we put forward. He is in a strong position. When you
:10:13. > :10:18.look at Spain, it has 10% of the current account deficit of GDP and
:10:18. > :10:22.today it is zero. They have the cheek that through increased
:10:22. > :10:27.competitiveness. You are talking about increase competitiveness.
:10:27. > :10:33.Most people to agree with that but you said the EU does not. Let's
:10:33. > :10:37.look at unilateral opt-outs. Who agrees with Britain to have them?
:10:37. > :10:40.do not think unilateral opt-outs on the right way of phrasing the
:10:40. > :10:45.argument. The Government has stopped talking about repatriation
:10:45. > :10:49.and is starting to talk about reform. That is more achievable.
:10:49. > :10:54.That is the way to get through on a competitive agenda rather than
:10:54. > :10:59.getting one or two things will Britain alone. William Hague talked
:10:59. > :11:06.about the red card. -- for Britain alone. He is making a good point.
:11:06. > :11:11.One problem we see now, let's put trade to one side for a second. In
:11:11. > :11:16.the Eagle/judicial area, European arrest warrant and 140 other issues,
:11:16. > :11:22.largely we do not want to be part of. We have an opt-out on those.
:11:22. > :11:27.They impinge on us in a way that no one foresaw 40 years ago. If you
:11:27. > :11:31.listen to the police commissioner, or any of the security services,
:11:31. > :11:36.they like the European arrest warrant. That is not an argument in
:11:36. > :11:40.favour in my view. I think it is incredibly important to catch these
:11:40. > :11:45.people. Their arguments are very clear. If you are going to do
:11:45. > :11:49.without them, it is beholden upon us to say what we will use instead
:11:49. > :11:55.Foster we have not put that argument yet. I would not be in
:11:55. > :11:59.favour. -- instead. We have not heard specifically from the
:11:59. > :12:03.Government of the other opt-outs which they are campaigning for. Do
:12:03. > :12:12.you feel the rhetoric is being turned down at the very top? We
:12:12. > :12:19.have not heard the word, repatriation, but will it be to do
:12:19. > :12:24.with the Criminal Justice System? David Cameron, William Hague and Co
:12:24. > :12:29.are setting a hurdle for themselves to leap. The higher they set their
:12:29. > :12:35.Hurdle, the more likely it is that people will turn around in a few
:12:35. > :12:39.years' time and say, he did not do it, we should leave. David will say,
:12:40. > :12:45.I want to argue in favour of staying in. There is a real
:12:45. > :12:48.conundrum at the core of government policy. Lawson pointed this out.
:12:48. > :12:53.That is why you need to start the process now. If you wait until
:12:53. > :13:01.after the next election, you have waited almost too long. The need to
:13:01. > :13:04.build allies and reform now, try to achieve some of this now.
:13:04. > :13:08.trouble is that there are just too many vested interests inside Europe.
:13:08. > :13:16.Institutional, bureaucratic ones which will resist this. We need to
:13:16. > :13:26.have believer. Without this referendum, we have no leader.
:13:26. > :13:29.
:13:29. > :13:34.become too pessimistic. -- lever. It brings us to the politics of it.
:13:34. > :13:39.There is not the agreement over what needs to be negotiated and
:13:39. > :13:43.reform. The politics comes first. The Private Member's Bill is being
:13:43. > :13:47.called a publicity stunt by Labour. Only Tory MPs will be voting on
:13:47. > :13:51.Friday. If they do not turn up, that will be their choice was that
:13:51. > :13:55.if they thought it was a publicity stunt, they could do a deal with
:13:55. > :13:59.the Liberals but they do not have the nerve for that. What they are
:14:00. > :14:08.talking matters calling for a referendum next year. If they did
:14:08. > :14:12.that, they might well succeed. A lot of Tory MPs are on their side.
:14:12. > :14:17.What do you think about Labour's discussions? They have not said
:14:17. > :14:21.anything but they could actually call for a referendum next year and
:14:21. > :14:26.get support from probably a fair and sizable chunk of the
:14:26. > :14:30.Conservative Party and that would be that. It would be ill-advised. I
:14:30. > :14:38.said if there were another treaty change which transferred power to
:14:38. > :14:48.Brussels, there would be another referendum. I would not have had
:14:48. > :15:14.
:15:14. > :15:19.one but I understand the party renegotiation of the relationship. I
:15:20. > :15:29.think that if you back out of the referendum it gives you more power.
:15:30. > :15:35.
:15:35. > :15:39.As the Irish, the Danes and Dutch have shown in the past. The police
:15:39. > :15:43.have been in for a tough time of late as allegations of wrongdoing
:15:43. > :15:48.continue to emerge. The latest being that there was an undercover
:15:48. > :15:51.campaign to dig up dirt on the friends and family of Steven
:15:51. > :15:53.Lawrence as they fought for justice for the murdered teenager. Today a
:15:53. > :15:57.House of Commons Select Committee has recommended police officers
:15:57. > :16:02.should have their pensions docked in serious cases of misconduct and for
:16:02. > :16:05.a new code of ethics to set out what is and is not acceptable behaviour.
:16:05. > :16:10.How badly damaged has the reputation of the police in England become and
:16:10. > :16:15.can it be restored? David Thompson reports.
:16:15. > :16:19.Steven Lawrence, Hillsborough, even Blebgate, a series of events some
:16:19. > :16:25.believe have eroded trust in one of Britain's great institutions - the
:16:25. > :16:30.police. I was a police officer for over 30 years. I am ashamed of what
:16:30. > :16:34.my colleagues were up to back in the day. I think trust has eroded in the
:16:34. > :16:37.police over the last few years and these allegations coming out at the
:16:37. > :16:40.moment really don't help. The police have two very big problems. The
:16:40. > :16:44.first is that they're not very good at talking to people, particularly
:16:44. > :16:48.groups of people like young people that they're getting distanced from.
:16:48. > :16:51.The second big problem they've got is they're just not good at
:16:51. > :16:55.confessing. They're not good at saying this is the truth, we stand
:16:55. > :17:00.by it, we are sorry about it and it is the whole truth. Are things as
:17:00. > :17:03.bad as they seem? In a poll taken this year but before the Steven
:17:03. > :17:07.Lawrence allegations suggested that 65% of the public do still trust the
:17:07. > :17:13.police to tell the truth. That's behind doctors and teachers but
:17:13. > :17:18.comfortably ahead of MPs and indeed journalists. But it's the
:17:18. > :17:22.allegations surrounding people like Duane Brooks that will be hardest
:17:22. > :17:26.for the police to overcome. It's claimed they were the targets of a
:17:26. > :17:30.failed smear campaign and even covert recording. Some believe that
:17:30. > :17:36.if true that had to be authorised from very near the top of the Met's
:17:37. > :17:40.chain of command. My understanding is that the covert recording of the
:17:40. > :17:45.meeting between the police, Duane Brooks and his solicitor was
:17:45. > :17:49.actually signed off at a very senior level. One can only assume that the
:17:49. > :17:54.other activities to undermine the Lawrence family were also sanctioned
:17:54. > :18:00.at a similar level. The public should be very concerned if these
:18:00. > :18:04.allegations turn out to be true. That at a senior level the police
:18:04. > :18:08.were authorised to undermine the family, covert record meetings,
:18:08. > :18:11.because those are the senior officers who were at the same time
:18:11. > :18:15.publicly saying that you can trust the police, that we are going to
:18:15. > :18:18.have a new regime, a new culture in the police that treats people with
:18:18. > :18:22.dignity and respect. Many of the allegations against the police go
:18:22. > :18:27.back to previous regimes, but it's the people in charge at the Met and
:18:28. > :18:32.other forces now who have to regain public trust. Clearly the
:18:32. > :18:35.commissioner and other senior officers have to say that things are
:18:35. > :18:41.different now but of course are we going to believe them? What we need
:18:41. > :18:45.to see is a clean record for a number of years before the public
:18:45. > :18:55.will again trust what senior police officers say. With us now is the
:18:55. > :19:00.chairman of the Hampshire Police Federation John Apter. We heard
:19:00. > :19:03.about things that have scarred the police reputation over recent weeks,
:19:03. > :19:07.smear campaigns against victims, including the Lawrence family and
:19:07. > :19:11.Hillsborough. The list is not great for the reputation of the police.
:19:11. > :19:17.What's gone wrong? I think many of these cases are historic cases, if
:19:17. > :19:21.you look at Hillsborough and the Lawrence investigation, whilst there
:19:21. > :19:25.are new allegations that have come to light recently they're all
:19:25. > :19:30.historic cases and the Police Federation and the 135,000 police
:19:30. > :19:34.officers who we represent would say that the victims from Hillsborough
:19:34. > :19:38.and indeed the Lawrence family deserve a - and must have justice
:19:38. > :19:43.and that must be seen to be done but these are historic cases which make
:19:43. > :19:48.it appear that policing is broken and that's just not the case.
:19:48. > :19:51.it a case of better transparency and the fact now that the police are
:19:51. > :19:54.finding it more difficult to hide some of these historic cases or some
:19:55. > :19:58.of the injustices that have gone on and there will be more of these
:19:58. > :20:02.coming to light? I have been a police officer for 20 years. I have
:20:02. > :20:07.seen the changes, the real positive changes across the country from
:20:07. > :20:11.cases such as the Stephen Lawrence murder. Those great examples of
:20:11. > :20:16.progress must not now be hidden. More importantly, the police
:20:16. > :20:20.officers we represent, 135,000, as I say, there is a shadow over their
:20:20. > :20:23.integrity because of the actions of a very, very small minority. We must
:20:23. > :20:29.not allow them to dominate the headlines which sadly is happening
:20:29. > :20:34.on a daily basis. How bad is it? Well, it is bad. He is right, he has
:20:34. > :20:37.a very large number of members who are good upstanding public servants
:20:37. > :20:41.committed to protecting the public. Let's get that clear before we
:20:41. > :20:45.start. But the reason some of these are historic is because it takes 20
:20:45. > :20:50.years to expose them. That itself is a disgrace and it's a disdpras on
:20:50. > :20:58.the police force, I am a-- disgrace on the police force, I am afraid.
:20:58. > :21:07.Some of it is not historic. Blebgate, Operation Alice and this
:21:07. > :21:11.indicates it's still systemic. Some of those are about filling of logs
:21:11. > :21:16.logs... When there is a transparent thorough investigation many times it
:21:16. > :21:19.is shown that the police who do have difficult job in difficult
:21:19. > :21:25.circumstances are shown to have been within the law and done what was
:21:25. > :21:29.expected of them. I would expect that to be 100% of the time. The
:21:29. > :21:34.problem with - you can't say look it's just 5%. 5% is massively too
:21:34. > :21:39.many. Half a percent is too many. agree but police officers, they're
:21:39. > :21:44.not robots. They're human beings. We are the first to say that they will
:21:44. > :21:49.make mistakes. If police officers break the law they deserve rightly
:21:49. > :21:54.to face the full force of the law. Indeed they do on many occasions.
:21:54. > :21:59.They have, that's the problem, it's been to years to happen. -- 20 years
:21:59. > :22:04.to happen. It's a small number of cases, significant but minor. I
:22:04. > :22:09.could tell you daily dozens if not hundreds of cases where acts of
:22:09. > :22:12.bravery, compassion, professionalism happen every day. One of the things
:22:12. > :22:16.about saying they're and do act police officers with integrity and
:22:16. > :22:21.professionalism is it's undermined by these cases. People do not trust
:22:21. > :22:28.the police in the way they did. think it's wrong to say that the
:22:28. > :22:32.public don't trust the police perse I said they don't just trust them in
:22:32. > :22:37.the way they used to. Recent events have been damaging and it's up to
:22:37. > :22:41.the Police Federation and ACPO and politicians to say this is a
:22:41. > :22:48.minority. This is a minority. They must be held to account, they must
:22:48. > :22:50.be -- there must be full transparent investigations. I think it's very,
:22:50. > :22:54.very important to the relationship of the police and the public but
:22:54. > :22:59.it's important to the upholding of law and order in this country. I
:22:59. > :23:09.think it's time for a new era in British policing and a lot of things
:23:09. > :23:09.
:23:09. > :23:12.need to change from the original standards through. Changing regimes
:23:12. > :23:15.isn't necessarily changing the culture of the police and you
:23:15. > :23:19.mentioned the federation but I interviewed the Police Federation
:23:19. > :23:24.over the so-called Blebgate affair and there was a feeling that the
:23:24. > :23:27.federation were defend defending police officers' actions before
:23:27. > :23:30.knowing the full facts. Do you accept that needs to change, that
:23:31. > :23:35.sort of standing together before even knowing what is necessarily
:23:35. > :23:44.going on has to change? With plebgate there is an investigation.
:23:44. > :23:49.Of course. I am using it as an example of... It's a representative
:23:49. > :23:53.body that represents officers across the country. What we are seeing now
:23:53. > :23:57.is there is an independent review into the Police Federation which I
:23:57. > :24:02.welcome and that will see, I am sure, significant positive changes.
:24:02. > :24:07.Some of the representatives told lies, bluntly. That's not yet been
:24:07. > :24:11.found. It's clear enough... There is an ongoing investigation. Let's look
:24:11. > :24:18.at some of the changes, some of the recommendations. Should officers be
:24:18. > :24:22.fined for misconduct? Ironically they used to be and in 2008 the -
:24:22. > :24:26.Would you like them brought in? an option for the panel members to
:24:26. > :24:31.impose a fine which could be an alternative to something else.
:24:31. > :24:34.pensions docked? Already happens. Does it? Indeed it does.Will that
:24:34. > :24:37.make a difference if that already happens fine, but bringing back the
:24:37. > :24:41.idea of finding? Just the penalties are not enough. This goes back to
:24:41. > :24:46.the core of some of the ways some policing is done, the way logs are
:24:46. > :24:52.kept, rules that are applied, the way that investigations are done.
:24:52. > :24:57.Take plebgate as you call it, the Downing Street affair. That's what -
:24:57. > :25:01.nine months now, you could have a baby faster than The Met has set
:25:01. > :25:06.about solving a simple operation that took 45 seconds. Investigations
:25:06. > :25:09.are complex and protracted. I would rather them be quicker, the IPCC,
:25:09. > :25:14.some investigations can go on for years, not months. That's damaging.
:25:14. > :25:18.All right. Thank you very much. Let's have a look at the week ahead.
:25:19. > :25:22.This issue of MPs' pay is bound to run. An independent report is
:25:22. > :25:26.expected to say they should get thousands more. But the Prime
:25:26. > :25:32.Minister is urging restraint. As will the debate within the Tory
:25:32. > :25:36.Party about whether to -- about when to recognise marriage in the tax
:25:36. > :25:39.system. There is pressure from the Conservative back benches on David
:25:40. > :25:44.Cameron to do so earlier rather than later. And Europe will feature
:25:44. > :25:49.heavily with James Wharton's private member's bill being voted on this
:25:49. > :25:55.Friday and joining us from a sunny College Green are Kate Devlin from
:25:56. > :26:00.The Herald and James Forsythe is The -- from The Spectator. How big a
:26:00. > :26:06.problem is MPs' pay going to be? Parts of what has happened is that
:26:06. > :26:11.the public has not forgotten and not forgiven the furore over MPs'
:26:11. > :26:17.expenses. The independent body that was set up to try and take these
:26:17. > :26:22.issues about pay and pensions away from MPs really hasn't been
:26:22. > :26:27.successful in separating MPs from the process. The public still think
:26:27. > :26:32.they're in it for all they can get. This kind of process there's been
:26:32. > :26:39.for the last couple of years to take them away from the process just
:26:39. > :26:45.hasn't worked. If large increases do go ahead, MPs will get the blame
:26:45. > :26:47.from the public. What can David Cameron do, because as Kate rightly
:26:47. > :26:52.says this is an independent recommendation, or would be, the
:26:52. > :26:55.idea is MPs won't vote on this, that they should accept the
:26:55. > :27:00.recommendation? When they set it up it was meant to be independent. As
:27:00. > :27:08.Kate says it was meant to stop the controversy over MPs' pay and
:27:08. > :27:13.expenses by demrit sizing it. -- depoliticising it. David Cameron has
:27:13. > :27:18.a difficult problem. A lot of MPs say we have fallen behind in sal
:27:18. > :27:21.salary terms behind civil servants, senior civil servants ap other big
:27:21. > :27:26.public sector professionals, people who run health trusts and they say
:27:26. > :27:29.we should be paid more or you are going to end up with a parliament
:27:29. > :27:33.with already people already wealthy or backed by a trade union can
:27:33. > :27:37.afford to be in it but David Cameron knows the public would revolt over a
:27:37. > :27:40.large rise for MPs at a time of austerity and it's going to add to
:27:40. > :27:44.problems with his backbenchers, a lot say it's all right for you,
:27:44. > :27:49.David Cameron, you inherited money, your wife earns a small fortune
:27:49. > :27:53.every year, we don't. We need this cash. That will be something for him
:27:53. > :28:01.to chew over in the next few weeks. Let's look at the bill on Friday
:28:01. > :28:05.being voted on, on Europe. What impact Duke will have -- that impact
:28:05. > :28:12.do you think that vote will have? couple of things it will do and I am
:28:12. > :28:18.not sure what impact to be honest it will have in the end. It will be a
:28:18. > :28:22.great set-piece, it will placate for a short time a lot of what have
:28:22. > :28:27.wanted to see this. The cracks are starting to emerge. Already
:28:27. > :28:34.questions about asked about what this means. Would it actually mean a
:28:35. > :28:37.referendum? Basically, the problem starts to become if it's just a
:28:37. > :28:43.set-piece without anything behind it, will there still be problems for
:28:43. > :28:46.the future? All right. James, very briefly. It's a bonding exercise for
:28:46. > :28:50.Tory MPs. They're going to have this barbecue on Thursday night and then