:00:38. > :00:43.Daily Politics. Times tables, fractions, Cromwell and Queen
:00:43. > :00:51.Victoria. Michael Gove unveils a new curriculum for England - but most
:00:51. > :00:57.secondary schools won't have to follow it.
:00:57. > :01:01.A nation delights - but which nation, Britain or Scotland?
:01:01. > :01:08.And has he got what it takes to win? Ed Miliband prepares to take on the
:01:08. > :01:17.unions in a big speech in the next few days.
:01:17. > :01:23.And is this what passes for grown up debate in the mother of parliaments?
:01:23. > :01:25.I'm sorry, Mr Speaker, the opposition don't want... It is very
:01:25. > :01:30.discourteous of the house to issue a collective groan.
:01:31. > :01:33.All that in the next hour. And with us for the whole programme
:01:33. > :01:37.today is Geraldine Bedell, the editor of gransnet. At least there's
:01:37. > :01:40.one job you haven't got to be old to do these days! Welcome to the
:01:40. > :01:43.programme. First today, the mansion tax could cost an average �36,000 a
:01:43. > :01:46.year - that's according to Treasury study that's been looking at
:01:46. > :01:56.proposals supported by Lib Dems and Labour to raise up to �2 billion
:01:56. > :02:06.from a levy on properties worth more than �2 million. Treasury officials
:02:06. > :02:06.
:02:06. > :02:11.estimate it would apply to about 55,000 properties. Geraldine, a good
:02:11. > :02:19.idea? It is quite difficult to argue against it, from a fairness point of
:02:19. > :02:21.view. If you have a �2 million house, the chances are that you are
:02:21. > :02:25.beneficiary of the incredibly over-heated south-eastern property
:02:25. > :02:32.market, and it is a windfall, in a way. But it will be difficult for
:02:32. > :02:36.older people with houses as assets but no income. �36,000 a year is an
:02:36. > :02:41.awful lot of money for people on retirement incomes. I suspect what
:02:41. > :02:45.is behind this is an attempt to get people to downshift. It will be
:02:45. > :02:51.successful because people won't be able to afford it. Using that as the
:02:51. > :02:55.basis of the argument, can we be talking about a lot of old people
:02:55. > :03:03.sitting in houses worth more than �2 million who do not have quite a lot
:03:03. > :03:07.of money themselves? It is very possible to own at house in London
:03:07. > :03:10.worth �2 million and not to have a very high income. Lots of older
:03:10. > :03:15.people want to stay in their houses because they say they use them for
:03:15. > :03:18.family gatherings, they look after grandchildren there, they have a
:03:18. > :03:25.network of support and relationships in that area that they don't want to
:03:25. > :03:31.leave. Properties in the area are very expensive. It will affect a
:03:31. > :03:35.minority, but affect them severely. Isn't downsizing a good idea in the
:03:35. > :03:40.main? I'm not saying people should dictate what people should do, but
:03:40. > :03:46.perhaps more elderly people should consider it? It is a great idea when
:03:46. > :03:49.you are ready. It is people being given the opportunity to choose.
:03:49. > :03:55.What about a wholesale re-evaluation? It looks as if that
:03:55. > :04:00.would have to take place on, maybe, most properties in order to find out
:04:00. > :04:06.which ones are worth more than �2 million? That would be a lot of work
:04:06. > :04:12.and expense. And it probably would not go down well. Do you think it
:04:12. > :04:15.will be a runner. Possibly, but it depends who wins the next election.
:04:15. > :04:19.If Labour got in, it is very possible.
:04:20. > :04:28.Now it's time for our daily quiz. The question today is, Fred Perry
:04:28. > :04:31.was the last Brit to win Wimbledon 77 years ago. -- the last British
:04:31. > :04:34.man. Which of the these facts about life in Britain in 1936 is not true
:04:34. > :04:37.- university graduates had two votes, a loaf of bread cost
:04:37. > :04:47.four-and-a-half pence, women had to have a licence to wear trousers in
:04:47. > :04:48.
:04:49. > :04:56.public or the average house price was �550? At the end of the show,
:04:56. > :05:02.Geraldine will give us the correct answer. No, Geraldine won't be here
:05:02. > :05:07.at the very end, you don't need to worry! It is our MPs. The Department
:05:07. > :05:10.of Education has published details of Michael Gove 's plan for a new
:05:10. > :05:13.National Curriculum covering primary and secondary schools in England. It
:05:13. > :05:16.will be the biggest shake-up since the original document was first
:05:16. > :05:18.introduced by Kenneth Baker in 1988. Michael Gove wants a more
:05:18. > :05:20.traditional curriculum to be taught in England's schools. Five-year-olds
:05:20. > :05:28.will be taught fractions and nine-year-olds will have to learn
:05:28. > :05:32.their times tables all the way up to 12. I thought they did already!
:05:32. > :05:35.There will be more focus on English history, with pupils learning about
:05:35. > :05:39.Oliver Cromwell, Queen Victoria and Winston Churchill - though Mr Gove
:05:39. > :05:41.has conceded that all pupils should also learn about world history. He
:05:41. > :05:49.says the reforms are about getting basic skills right, and David
:05:49. > :05:52.Cameron says the new curriculum will be rigorous, engaging and tough. But
:05:52. > :05:55.the majority of secondary schools will not have to implement it. There
:05:55. > :05:59.are now over 3000 academies in England which have the freedom to
:05:59. > :06:02.choose their own curriculum. And coming on top of the changes to
:06:02. > :06:05.exams announced last month, which will see GCSEs scrapped, teaching
:06:05. > :06:15.unions have complained that too many reforms are being rushed through too
:06:15. > :06:17.
:06:17. > :06:21.quickly. None of the government's current ministers were available to
:06:22. > :06:27.explain the new proposals. But we have the former Schools Minister,
:06:27. > :06:32.thank goodness, Nick Gibb, and Mary boasted, Secretary-General of the
:06:32. > :06:38.Association of and lecturers. Nick, did you accept that too many changes
:06:38. > :06:42.are being made to the education system at once? The government is
:06:42. > :06:46.unapologetic. There is a rush to make sure our education system is on
:06:46. > :06:52.a par with the best in the world. Young people leaving education will
:06:52. > :06:57.be challenging in a -- competing in a challenging global race for jobs,
:06:57. > :07:00.therefore they need to be literate, have good maths skills and
:07:00. > :07:07.understand science. We need to make sure that our school leavers compete
:07:07. > :07:11.for those jobs and get them in a very competitive market. But if it
:07:11. > :07:16.is done in a rush and the system can't cope, we will not get the
:07:16. > :07:19.success and improvement that you want? I say in a hurry, not in a
:07:19. > :07:27.rush. There is still a year before this is implemented in primary
:07:27. > :07:34.schools. It is not that different, frankly. Maths is maths. It is just
:07:34. > :07:37.a skewing of how not up location tables are taught at the age of
:07:38. > :07:41.nine, not at 11. GCSE 's don't come in until September 2015, so there is
:07:42. > :07:49.plenty of lead time. That it is essential that we have a rigorous
:07:49. > :07:54.and demanding curriculum. Can you do it in a year? I don't think it is
:07:54. > :07:59.possible to do it well in a year. Schools will make every effort to do
:07:59. > :08:05.it, but not to do it well. To give you one example of more haste, less
:08:05. > :08:10.speed. Children starting this curriculum in 2014 will be tested in
:08:10. > :08:15.2015 on the old curriculum, because there isn't time to bring in new
:08:15. > :08:20.tests. That might be the case in 2016. We don't know what the new
:08:20. > :08:24.GCSEs will look like. The new curriculum has very little relation
:08:24. > :08:30.to the foundation curriculum that children do before they start
:08:30. > :08:34.school, so these are very rushed changes on a very poorer base. The
:08:34. > :08:38.first proposals for changing the National Curriculum were so poor
:08:38. > :08:43.that only Michael Gove could say they were worth anything. They were
:08:43. > :08:47.not accepted by teachers, academics, employers, parent, they were roundly
:08:47. > :08:52.condemned and criticised. They are starting from a very low base and we
:08:52. > :08:59.will need to see if these proposals are real improvement? Do you agree?
:08:59. > :09:04.No, the curriculum was of a very high standard... Did anybody except
:09:04. > :09:07.them? They were based on a curriculum from around the world.
:09:07. > :09:15.There was criticism of the history, too much was being put into the
:09:15. > :09:18.primary school. Only up to 1066 in the primary years, and then
:09:18. > :09:22.secondary education afterwards. There have been changes to design
:09:22. > :09:26.and technology so that we are sure that our children can be the
:09:26. > :09:30.designers of the future, they can use 3D printers, they can use
:09:30. > :09:37.robotics and understand the basics of leavers, wheels and cogs and so
:09:37. > :09:41.on. It is robust. So you will have a system where children will be tested
:09:41. > :09:47.at GCSE while a new curriculum is being introduced that won't be part
:09:47. > :09:53.of our testing. It makes no sense. Schools and understand the syllabus
:09:54. > :09:57.for the GCSEs they will be taking before 2017. In terms of the primary
:09:57. > :10:02.curriculum and what is tested at the end of Key stage two, teachers
:10:02. > :10:07.clearly understand what is in the syllabus now and what will be tested
:10:07. > :10:12.next year. The syllabus comes in September 2014. Because it is more
:10:12. > :10:16.rigorous, if schools are teaching to this new curriculum and getting
:10:16. > :10:20.children learning that tables are earlier, not later, if they become
:10:20. > :10:26.fluent readers earlier than before, they will do just as well, if not
:10:26. > :10:32.better, in the current test than if they were teaching the old
:10:32. > :10:36.curriculum. Is merrymaking too much fuss? I think so. Unions need to say
:10:36. > :10:39.something about government proposals, but I think Mary will be
:10:39. > :10:43.supportive of this curriculum. Children will be fluent in
:10:43. > :10:49.arithmetic, they will understand fractions... You keep reciting these
:10:49. > :10:53.lists, they are just statements. I am profoundly unhappy by the way
:10:53. > :10:55.this government does education policy. We have had three
:10:55. > :11:01.announcements about GCSEs and massive backtracking, proposals for
:11:01. > :11:06.a primary curriculum which were roundly condemned. You do not
:11:06. > :11:12.involve the profession, you don't listen to experts. More so than the
:11:12. > :11:15.previous system which was produced by quangos. Even the teacher expert
:11:15. > :11:20.groups which were hand-picked by the National College to talk about
:11:20. > :11:28.teacher training and resources, they said in essence that they were
:11:28. > :11:32.unteachable. That is a very low base. They are teachable in other
:11:32. > :11:37.countries, successful countries. We are dropping down the international
:11:37. > :11:41.league tables. What about Finland? You start school at seven, they are
:11:42. > :11:48.top of the league tables, they are moving towards a more skills -based,
:11:48. > :11:53.practical curriculum. They are... They have a much simpler language in
:11:53. > :11:58.Finland than we do. It is not rigorous to introduce concepts to
:11:58. > :12:03.children before they are ready to learn them. Bee we are making sure
:12:04. > :12:07.they are ready... How?Teaching the algorithms, teaching children how to
:12:07. > :12:13.do maths and learn to read is the key thing. So they are not
:12:13. > :12:17.struggling with this concept is. you think they will be ready at a
:12:17. > :12:21.younger age to deal with some of the concepts in maths and evolution
:12:21. > :12:26.which have been talked about, doing fractions at perhaps the ages of
:12:26. > :12:30.seven and eight? I think parents and grandparents want to see children
:12:30. > :12:34.learning things as soon is they are able to, but this all seems a little
:12:34. > :12:39.bit irrelevant to me. Free schools and academies will not be forced to
:12:39. > :12:43.follow this curriculum, secondly, this is not really what parents are
:12:43. > :12:46.interested in. They want inspiring teaching. I don't think most of us
:12:47. > :12:50.care very much whether our children are taught about Nelson Mandela or
:12:50. > :12:55.Winston Churchill. We want our children to have the resources and
:12:55. > :13:02.enthusiasm and creativity to do something with their learning and to
:13:02. > :13:07.go on to learn more. It is about the teachers, you cant we can change the
:13:07. > :13:10.system, and the previous government did just as much. If you just rely
:13:11. > :13:16.on teachers to do their job and find the best teachers, which I know
:13:16. > :13:23.Michael Gove has focused on, isn't that more important? Two the changes
:13:23. > :13:27.to the curriculum one part of an overall reform. We need inspiring
:13:27. > :13:33.teachers. We have raised the bar of entry into teaching. We want to
:13:33. > :13:36.raise the status of teaching as a profession. This is the government
:13:37. > :13:40.which has dropped the requirement for qualified teacher status and
:13:40. > :13:48.schools. It talks about higher status for teachers, but then it
:13:48. > :13:51.says they do not need a qualification. This curriculum is
:13:51. > :13:57.far less prescriptive than the national strategy, which told
:13:57. > :14:02.teachers how to teach a 3-part lesson, group teaching etc. It has
:14:02. > :14:07.all been swept away to use that professional experience...
:14:07. > :14:12.Unqualified teachers. We will come back to the qualifications very
:14:12. > :14:16.briefly. As Geraldine said, if the National Curriculum is so great, why
:14:16. > :14:21.don't academies have to follow it? We are giving them the same
:14:21. > :14:28.regulatory structure as independent schools. It will inform the exams
:14:28. > :14:32.they take, the Key stage two tests, the GCSEs. Parents will be able to
:14:32. > :14:35.look at the curriculum and say, why don't my children know about the
:14:35. > :14:44.civil war? Why haven't they understood about long division? If
:14:44. > :14:48.their school isn't to Burke that are delivering, they can challenge it.
:14:48. > :14:50.Three of the first round of free schools have been told they are
:14:51. > :14:56.virtually in special measures. This freedom equal in quality does not
:14:56. > :14:59.exist. The fact you have a National Curriculum applying to some schools
:14:59. > :15:07.and not others is nonsense. The government can't get off the feet
:15:07. > :15:10.about that. There are Key stage two tests. Most schools will be teaching
:15:10. > :15:14.the National Curriculum, as a main. Some academies and free schools
:15:15. > :15:20.might be teaching beyond it. That is a good thing. But this curriculum is
:15:20. > :15:25.being informed by experts, it has been based on successful
:15:26. > :15:28.jurisdictions around the world. If it is successfully in fermented and
:15:28. > :15:33.schools, as I think it will be, it will put this country pulls-macro
:15:33. > :15:39.educational system on a par with the best in the world, which is where
:15:39. > :15:43.education needs to be. What about unqualified teaching? Won't it lead
:15:43. > :15:47.to further problems? Schools have the freedom to employee who they
:15:47. > :15:51.choose to, most will employ qualified teachers. But if you want
:15:51. > :15:55.to employ a professor of chemistry from a university in his later
:15:55. > :15:59.years, or somebody who has taught throughout their life in an
:15:59. > :16:05.independent school who does not have qualified teacher status, to attract
:16:05. > :16:09.them, you have the freedom. It is about having the best communicators,
:16:09. > :16:14.as well as people who know their subject. A teaching qualification
:16:14. > :16:17.may well be essential for some people but not everybody? It is a
:16:17. > :16:24.guaranteed you have been through appropriate training. Not that you
:16:24. > :16:28.will be a good teacher. The standard for qualifying is very high. To have
:16:28. > :16:34.another tree, no, you don't need to be qualified, lowers the status of
:16:34. > :16:38.the profession. We are talking about excellent teachers who are involved
:16:38. > :16:48.in curriculum development. There is no such requirement in the
:16:48. > :16:51.
:16:51. > :16:54.independent sector. They have a very Speaking of history... It is 77
:16:54. > :16:58.years since Fred Perry won the men's title. Yesterday, of course,
:16:58. > :17:01.Andy Murray finally did it again for Britain. Or was it Scotland?
:17:01. > :17:04.Union flags and Saltires were waved amongst the throngs camped out on
:17:04. > :17:06.Murray mound and, in defiance of a ban on large flags on Centre Court
:17:06. > :17:16.itself, Scotland's First Minister controversially unfurled a Scottish
:17:16. > :17:31.
:17:31. > :17:36.Andy Murray himself described his victory as a British win.
:17:36. > :17:45.understand how much everyone wanted to see a British winner at
:17:45. > :17:51.Wimbledon. I hope you guys enjoyed. I tried my best. That was Andy
:17:51. > :17:57.Murray celebrating the big win. It was an amazing match and a
:17:57. > :18:00.beautiful day to go with it. Celebrations have been continuing.
:18:00. > :18:03.With me now is the Conservative MP and vice chair of the all party
:18:03. > :18:09.tennis group - Mark Pritchard - and the SNP Member of the Scottish
:18:09. > :18:14.Parliament Keith Brown, who is in his constituency in Dunblane.
:18:14. > :18:22.Welcome to both of you. First of all, why shouldn't Alex Salmond
:18:22. > :18:26.waive the sole tyre? He can. He is the master of the political stunt.
:18:26. > :18:32.I do not think the future of the United Kingdom should be viewed as
:18:32. > :18:37.a stunt. It is serious. People can be very proudly Scottish, Welsh,
:18:37. > :18:41.English will come from Northern Ireland and still be proudly
:18:41. > :18:51.British. They can be very complimentary. I do not have issued
:18:51. > :18:57.with people waving around francs. - - flags. I think it should unite
:18:57. > :19:04.the nation. Those trying to detract away from that and wanting to just
:19:04. > :19:10.unite the nation - I think it is unfortunate. It was unfortunate and
:19:10. > :19:16.a political stunt. It is unfortunate it is seen to be
:19:16. > :19:21.politicised. In Dunblane, people were glued to the televisions. It
:19:21. > :19:31.was testament to the long years of sacrifice he made. It is nothing to
:19:31. > :19:35.
:19:35. > :19:39.do with politics. Why did he unfurled the Scottish flag? Alex
:19:39. > :19:47.Salmond is the first minister of Scotland. He has followed the
:19:47. > :19:53.career of Andy married for 10 years. He wanted to celebrate. -- Andy
:19:53. > :20:02.Murray. Had his opponent won, and the Serbian Prime Minister unfurled
:20:02. > :20:06.the Serbian flag, there would be none of this. First of all, it is a
:20:06. > :20:11.great achievement for him and for Scotland and for the United Kingdom.
:20:11. > :20:16.The great achievement for tennis in this country. I hope we will seek
:20:16. > :20:21.other people coming up through the ranks and then on to win future
:20:22. > :20:27.Wimbledons. Let's hope he wins next year as well. I take the view the
:20:27. > :20:32.United Kingdom is a stronger country when all the countries are
:20:32. > :20:38.united together. Scotland is more prosperous and safer. That is very
:20:38. > :20:43.much part of being the United Kingdom. It is unfortunate that
:20:43. > :20:47.this incident has overshadowed what should be a personal and national
:20:47. > :20:53.victory for tennis in this country. To believe the Daily Mail's outrage
:20:53. > :20:58.is more likely to drive a wedge between the nations instead of
:20:58. > :21:02.encouraging unity you have talked about? I do not think so. The Daily
:21:02. > :21:07.Mail is a very good newspaper. It is right they highlight the
:21:07. > :21:15.political mischief of people like Alex Salmond. He is the master of
:21:15. > :21:21.the political stunt. Some in tennis might be frustrated at what he did.
:21:21. > :21:30.Yesterday should have been about Mr Murray, rather than tennis, rather
:21:30. > :21:35.than political statements. -- and tennis. Andy Murray himself talked
:21:35. > :21:40.about a win for Britain and not a win for Scotland. Of course, people
:21:40. > :21:46.across Britain will take huge satisfaction. As well people in
:21:46. > :21:55.Scotland and Dunblane. Nothing wrong with that. Whether it it is
:21:55. > :21:59.Union flags, sold tyres, St Georges crosses. People are entitled to
:21:59. > :22:02.celebrate. The only person talking about politics is Mr Pritchard. I
:22:02. > :22:08.would rather talk about Andy Mario Mandzukic and his achievement and
:22:08. > :22:15.the ultimate success, which must be the ambition of every tennis player
:22:15. > :22:25.in the world. -- Andy Murray. Alex Salmon did not have politics
:22:25. > :22:27.
:22:27. > :22:32.on his mind at all. -- Alex Salmond. Of course he wanted to celebrate.
:22:32. > :22:37.He will not be thinking about constitutional politics. The
:22:37. > :22:42.children are thinking about, how can I get the same kind of shots
:22:42. > :22:45.and baseline controlled that Andy Murray had? Apart from wanting to
:22:45. > :22:49.improve their tennis, it is difficult to believe that
:22:49. > :22:56.politicians were not thinking about how it would help them. I'm sure
:22:56. > :23:01.David Cameron was thinking, we have had a few good weeks of weather and
:23:01. > :23:09.Andy Murray has won for Britain. The Prime Minister is probably the
:23:09. > :23:14.best tennis player in Parliament. He could have taken advantage and
:23:14. > :23:20.pulled out the Union flag. He was dignified and realised it was a day
:23:20. > :23:26.of British tennis. We have to really go at our loins. There may
:23:26. > :23:31.be other political stunts from Alex Salmond as he sees the polls
:23:31. > :23:36.increasing in favour of Scotland staying within the United Kingdom -
:23:37. > :23:45.upsetting the Catholic Church in Scotland - even the BBC in Scotland.
:23:45. > :23:50.He had the golden touch of politics and he has made strategic error
:23:50. > :23:55.after strategic error. They realise they're making mistake after
:23:55. > :24:00.mistake after mistake. The argument has been seen through by the
:24:00. > :24:04.Scottish people. They're probably likely to see further political
:24:04. > :24:11.stance in desperation by the SNP. What about the Commonwealth Games
:24:11. > :24:15.next year? Will it be used to boost the referendum campaign? Of course
:24:15. > :24:20.not. The Commonwealth Games is about the whole of the Commonwealth.
:24:20. > :24:26.They're very proud of the fact we hosted in Glasgow, just as London
:24:26. > :24:31.is that it hosted an Olympics last year. The only person scoring
:24:31. > :24:35.political points is Mark Pritchard. Every time he has brought it back
:24:35. > :24:41.to constitutional politics. It is about Andy Murray. Let's not
:24:41. > :24:45.detract from that. It is a huge achievement. It says more about the
:24:45. > :24:51.Conservative Party than the people of Scotland or indeed the people of
:24:51. > :24:56.Britain. They are basking in the glory of a fantastic achievement by
:24:56. > :25:01.Andy Murray, let that be the story today. I want to see you pick up a
:25:01. > :25:07.tennis racket and have a game behind me. Thank you very much.
:25:07. > :25:10.am happy to play. We are all in this together. That was George
:25:10. > :25:14.Osborne's mantra when the belt- tightening began in 2010. But one
:25:14. > :25:16.section of society has come-off relatively unscathed from the cuts.
:25:16. > :25:20.Pensioners have been promised healthy increases in their pensions
:25:20. > :25:24.and winter fuel payments continue to be made even to the better off.
:25:24. > :25:34.Fair play, or have pensioners been shown a distinct advantage? Adam
:25:34. > :25:40.
:25:40. > :25:47.Missing Wimbledon, don't worry, I've come to Rhyd tennis club in
:25:47. > :25:52.Tottenham to talk to people about the welfare state. Right now, at
:25:52. > :25:57.roughly �80 billion a year is spent on a state pension, alone in
:25:57. > :26:02.pension credits. A further �2.1 billion is spent on the annual
:26:02. > :26:08.Winter Fuel Allowance. 578 million is spent giving free television
:26:08. > :26:13.licences to those over 75. We have not mentioned bus passes yet.
:26:13. > :26:18.think pensioners have a bad deal actually. I know some pensioners
:26:18. > :26:22.are frightened to put the heating on in winter. That is sad. They and
:26:22. > :26:27.the people can work and the older people cannot always work. They
:26:27. > :26:35.have given their lives to this country and they need to be looked
:26:35. > :26:40.after. The country fields broadly the same. -- feels broadly the same.
:26:40. > :26:44.Politicians are engaged in a rally over been less generous. Ed Balls
:26:44. > :26:49.said that Labour would take away the Winter Fuel Allowance from the
:26:49. > :26:54.richest 5% of pensioners. The Lib Dem said they could not guarantee
:26:54. > :26:59.the existence of the so-called triple-lock, which means pension
:26:59. > :27:04.rise by 2.5% a year. A couple of weeks ago, George Osborne said the
:27:04. > :27:10.Tories would have to look at the affordability of universal pension
:27:10. > :27:20.benefits at some point in the future. Our tennis-playing pm
:27:20. > :27:24.
:27:24. > :27:31.promised they would be safe with him in charge. -- Prime Minister.
:27:31. > :27:35.Once you break down... It you drive a wedge into the universal
:27:35. > :27:44.principle. You have to look at fuel allowance for wealthy pensioners
:27:44. > :27:51.and other areas. All three parties have coalesced around the fact we
:27:51. > :27:58.cannot do this universe he had to. There is another freebie for older
:27:58. > :28:05.people. -- universality. I take it as fighting for the National Health
:28:05. > :28:10.Service. Are they going to say at a certain point, if you earn �42,000,
:28:11. > :28:17.you have to pay for your medical care? Are they going to say that?
:28:17. > :28:21.It is not a big step. Tough choices lie ahead on welfare. Who will have
:28:21. > :28:25.the balls to make them? Geraldine Bedell, editor of Gransnet, is
:28:25. > :28:35.still with me. And to take her on, Ed Howker, author of Jilted
:28:35. > :28:35.
:28:35. > :28:41.Generation. Do you think pensioners get too much? That is a harsh way
:28:41. > :28:46.of characterising it. As the cuts have fallen, they have fallen on
:28:46. > :28:51.younger sections of the population - insulating rather wealthy, older
:28:51. > :28:58.people, who continued to get a lot of welfare benefits and they do not
:28:58. > :29:03.need them. Is that fair? It is not unfair. We do not have results but
:29:03. > :29:08.what we're going to find his responses of quite nuanced. Older
:29:08. > :29:13.people are not implacably opposed to being part of the solution and
:29:13. > :29:19.recognise there is a fairness issue here. Including universal benefits
:29:19. > :29:22.been taken away... When George Osborne announce the suspension of
:29:22. > :29:28.winter fuel payments to people living abroad, there was not a
:29:28. > :29:33.great deal of protest. No one will argue that Mick Jagger meets winter
:29:33. > :29:39.fuel payments. Only 10% of pensioners have incomes of over
:29:39. > :29:43.�30,000 a year. We're not talking about fast groups of greedy people.
:29:43. > :29:48.50% of pensioners are living entirely on the state pension.
:29:48. > :29:58.not have to be careful what you wish for? You could be causing more
:29:58. > :30:04.
:30:04. > :30:09.deal with these things than others? It is not an argument, young people
:30:09. > :30:13.have been more adversely affected, in terms of the job opportunities
:30:13. > :30:19.they have and the fact that they might become more dependent on
:30:19. > :30:23.parents and grandparents. If you look at how the cuts have fallen,
:30:23. > :30:27.they have fallen towards young people. One of the things I find
:30:27. > :30:31.most offensive about the arguments made by the likes of that woman in
:30:31. > :30:37.that film who said that older people say they are slicing away at the
:30:37. > :30:41.universal principle by tackling pensioner benefits. That universal
:30:41. > :30:47.principle has disappeared entirely by young people, who have been
:30:47. > :30:49.targeted through DMA, the shared room rate, university fees in a way
:30:49. > :30:55.that is disproportionate. I don't think there is a world of difference
:30:55. > :30:58.between the argument that we would have about this. I think it is wrong
:30:58. > :31:04.to characterise pensioners as greedy, that is not necessarily the
:31:04. > :31:09.case. A lot of electoral sweeteners given to them turn out not to be
:31:09. > :31:14.worth it, I think. I think if you were to dismantle the universal
:31:14. > :31:18.principle, you have to look at the cost and benefits. The benefits
:31:18. > :31:23.would not be huge, there are not that many people involved in paying
:31:23. > :31:28.higher rates of tax. The cost would be high. It is an inefficient way of
:31:28. > :31:32.going about things and it creates a new set of unfairness is. One of the
:31:32. > :31:38.things that bothers me about this argument is the stigmatisation of
:31:38. > :31:43.older people as somehow sitting comfortably when, in fact, older
:31:43. > :31:46.people are net contributors to the economy. Huge amounts of
:31:46. > :31:52.grandparents are neighbouring young people to work. Run parents feel
:31:52. > :31:57.strongly about this because they see first-hand what it is like to be a
:31:57. > :32:01.young person out of work or trying to buy a house. But do you accept
:32:01. > :32:05.that some older people have had it good in a way that their children
:32:05. > :32:15.will never have, because of house prices, their children would have
:32:15. > :32:20.had free University education and their pensions are index-linked?
:32:20. > :32:26.There is inequality, and we are prepared to accept that, but it is a
:32:27. > :32:32.minority of people. What have you done in terms of making wealthy
:32:32. > :32:35.pensioners pay more? -- what can be done in terms of bastion muck the
:32:35. > :32:45.House of Lords about ageism was the best way to divvy up how government
:32:45. > :32:46.
:32:46. > :32:53.assistance is handed out. If you look at the Winter fuel payment,
:32:53. > :32:57.free television licences, the fact that a chunk of pensioners work and
:32:57. > :33:01.pay no national insurance. If you look at those wings, in a very
:33:01. > :33:07.straightforward way, there are questions to be answered about
:33:07. > :33:15.whether we can afford those. Can we, and should they be looked at?
:33:15. > :33:21.is no harm in looking. Over 75s is still the group most likely to live
:33:21. > :33:26.in poverty. And I agree, and we need to do more for them. Age is not
:33:26. > :33:30.necessarily the best way at divvying things up. We need to think much
:33:30. > :33:36.more constructively about the whole life course and opportunities. To be
:33:36. > :33:39.old in Glasgow is very different than to be old in Kensington. There
:33:39. > :33:44.are many people who are able to go on working for much longer and
:33:44. > :33:48.should probably not be retiring at 50 and living on the state for 30
:33:48. > :33:55.years. Is there a worried that there is an intergenerational tension
:33:55. > :34:00.being built up by this sort of discussion? No. I think people talk
:34:00. > :34:05.about young people waging a war against their parents. In reality,
:34:05. > :34:10.that is not how the cuts and the crisis affecting poorer sections of
:34:10. > :34:17.society is operating. When young people get poorer, they are much
:34:17. > :34:17.angry with their parents, they are reliant on them. -- they are not
:34:17. > :34:21.angry with their parents. Thank you both.
:34:21. > :34:25.It's the last full week for MPs here in Westminster. The sun is out and
:34:25. > :34:28.no doubt one or two will have half an eye on a Mediterranean beach - I
:34:28. > :34:32.mean, British seaside holiday! - but first there's a busy few days ahead.
:34:32. > :34:35.In the next few days, Labour leader Ed Miliband will set out his plans
:34:35. > :34:37.for the unions following the recent row with Unite over candidate
:34:37. > :34:40.selection. Then on Wednesday, the Privy Council
:34:40. > :34:45.will meet to discuss the alternative draft Royal Charter on press
:34:45. > :34:48.regulation put forward by newspaper bosses a few weeks ago.
:34:48. > :34:51.Also on Wednesday, BBC bosses Chris Patten and Tony Hall are being
:34:51. > :34:57.grilled by the Public Accounts Committee on big payoffs for
:34:57. > :35:01.managers. And on Thursday, MPs will find out
:35:01. > :35:04.if they've been awarded the pay rise that, supposedly, none of them want.
:35:04. > :35:11.IPSA, the body now responsible for MPs' pay have hinted that our
:35:11. > :35:14.politicians could be in line for a 15% hike in their salary.
:35:14. > :35:17.To discuss all that I'm joined now from the heat of College Green by
:35:17. > :35:27.two of Westminster's big hitters - Joe Watts from the London Evening
:35:27. > :35:28.
:35:28. > :35:32.Standard and Craig Woodhouse from The Sun. Welcome to you both.
:35:32. > :35:37.Craig, what does Ed Miliband need to say in his speech about Labour 's
:35:37. > :35:42.future relationship with the unions? Something, big, bold and radical
:35:43. > :35:49.which we have not heard before. Two years ago there was a document which
:35:49. > :35:54.was seeking to recast this entire relationship. Team Edwards breaching
:35:54. > :36:02.fairly heavily that he would water down the influence of the unions. Lo
:36:02. > :36:08.and behold, we have another union height on our hands. Joe, could it
:36:08. > :36:13.be turned to Miliband 's advantage? It is a crisis, the worst scandals
:36:13. > :36:18.for a political party play into people 's pre-existing fears, and
:36:18. > :36:22.this goes right to the heart of fears about Labour. Ed Miliband sees
:36:22. > :36:26.this as an opportunity to be seen to be standing up to the unions. He can
:36:26. > :36:33.only capitalise on that opportunity if his actions match his rhetoric
:36:33. > :36:39.tomorrow. There will be lots of Tory MPs waiting to see if it doesn't.
:36:39. > :36:45.Craig, Joe is right, Tory MPs will want to capitalise on this as much
:36:45. > :36:50.as possible. Is there a danger for him? There is a danger if it looks
:36:50. > :36:55.to the public like it is a party political row and David Cameron
:36:55. > :36:59.shoehorned in the words Unite and Len McCluskey last week to the
:36:59. > :37:04.delight of his backbenchers. If it looks like they are crowing, there
:37:04. > :37:13.is a danger. But Joe was right, this is a fantasy for the Conservative
:37:13. > :37:19.Party, to have a caricature Labour leftie taking an someone may have
:37:19. > :37:24.been trying to portray as the puppet of the unions. Let move on to press
:37:24. > :37:30.regulation. John Prescott has said the Privy Council could talk about
:37:30. > :37:34.this for up to nine months or so. A bit more prevarication, it will be
:37:34. > :37:39.kicked into the next Parliament. What do you think are the chances of
:37:39. > :37:44.a new royal charter being in place before the next election? I would
:37:44. > :37:48.highlight that, this morning, the newspaper industry has published a
:37:48. > :37:52.draft constitution for a new press Watchdog. For their part, at least,
:37:53. > :37:58.it shows they can is to get moving despite the ongoing discussions of
:37:59. > :38:02.the Royal Charter. Craig, do you think that is the case? If the Privy
:38:02. > :38:07.Council is discussing an alternative Royal Charter put forward by
:38:07. > :38:11.newspaper bosses, which will delay any system being put into place,
:38:11. > :38:18.even if the Prime Minister says he wants to make sure they have gone
:38:18. > :38:26.through it with a fine tooth comb, will it be the Son what won it
:38:26. > :38:30.again? I would not like to say that. We are where we are, and due to the
:38:30. > :38:33.slightly arcane laws of the way in which the Privy Council works, they
:38:33. > :38:39.can only discuss one charter regulating one industry at any one
:38:39. > :38:43.time stop this is one being discussed first, which has upset
:38:43. > :38:49.Lord Prescott, no longer the right honourable. Those arcane rules are
:38:49. > :38:55.pain! Do you think the new royal charter for press regulation will be
:38:55. > :38:59.placed by the next election? There will need to be a way of getting
:38:59. > :39:08.some sort of consensus and agreement which suits everybody. It is not a
:39:08. > :39:15.question I am suitably qualified to answer. MPs' pay rise, does the
:39:15. > :39:19.Government stop it? That is an interesting question and it is a
:39:19. > :39:23.nightmare for the party leaders. The only god send for them is that it is
:39:23. > :39:28.a nightmare for all three, not just one. They will hide behind this
:39:28. > :39:36.theory that it is out of their hands and it has been passed to the
:39:36. > :39:40.Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority. The government sets the
:39:40. > :39:47.guidelines for IPSA to calculate an MPs' pay, so we will have to wait
:39:47. > :39:50.and see how David Cameron handles it. One interesting point is how we
:39:50. > :39:55.move is on this. They benefit from protest votes so it will be
:39:55. > :40:02.interesting to see how they benefit. It could be barred for David
:40:02. > :40:07.Cameron. Craig, if you work Cameron, how would you deal with it? I would
:40:07. > :40:10.make clear that I want nothing to do with it, but I could do nothing
:40:10. > :40:13.about the rules. Thank you. With me now are three MPs, all of
:40:13. > :40:15.whom have tried to get their own private members' bills through
:40:15. > :40:18.Parliament. James Wharton, whose EU Referendum Bill got its second
:40:19. > :40:22.reading on Friday, Labour MP Lisa Nandy had wanted to see a crackdown
:40:22. > :40:25.of zero hours contracts but lost out in the ballot and Lib Dem Julian
:40:26. > :40:33.Huppert had a bill on local planning but it didn't get beyond a first
:40:33. > :40:36.reading. Welcome to all of you. But let's start with Labour's woes. As
:40:36. > :40:39.we've heard, Ed Miliband is preparing to make a speech about the
:40:39. > :40:41.party's relationship with the unions. On the Sunday Politics
:40:41. > :40:51.yesterday, former Labour Home Secretary John Reid warned of the
:40:51. > :40:52.
:40:52. > :40:56.seriousness of the crisis. I have no doubt that the leader of
:40:56. > :41:03.Unite wants to impose an ideological direction on the Labour Party that
:41:03. > :41:08.with leaders into political oblivion, as it did in the 1970s and
:41:08. > :41:12.1980s. That is why this is a political struggle. Lisa Nandy,
:41:12. > :41:17.funnily enough, I will come to you first. He says Len McCluskey wants
:41:17. > :41:22.to take Labour back to the 70s and 80s, to impose an ideological
:41:22. > :41:28.direction which would lead us into political oblivion. With respect to
:41:28. > :41:33.John Reid, it sounds like he is talking about 1990, not 2013. Ed
:41:33. > :41:36.Miliband was right to recognise that this is a bigger issue than Falkirk,
:41:36. > :41:41.wherever you have a small number of people exerting a great deal of
:41:41. > :41:45.influence on a political party, you have a problem, as we have seen with
:41:45. > :41:48.wealthy donors in the Conservative Party. There are 6.5 million working
:41:48. > :41:53.people in this country who joined trade unions because they recognise
:41:53. > :41:56.that without that they would not have the minimum wage, maternity and
:41:56. > :42:00.paternity leave, the weekend and other rights that we take for
:42:00. > :42:04.granted. What I think you will see from Ed Miliband tomorrow is a
:42:05. > :42:09.speech looking at how we rebuild democracy in the Labour Party. I
:42:09. > :42:12.hope we will see something similar from the other political parties who
:42:12. > :42:18.have, rightly, been criticised for having a small number of people
:42:18. > :42:22.exerting influence. Are they wrong for exerting that level of
:42:22. > :42:25.influence? The strength of the Labour Party has been being a
:42:25. > :42:30.grassroots organisation drawing strength from the communities that
:42:30. > :42:35.we live and work on. The difficulty with parliamentary selection is they
:42:36. > :42:42.are extremely long and expensive and difficult to navigate. Should Unite
:42:42. > :42:47.be trying to control them? It is right and proper that they play a
:42:47. > :42:51.part, and I would support that, but ordinary members have to look at
:42:51. > :42:55.candidates across the board, including those who have not played
:42:55. > :43:01.an insider role in political life, the trade unions or any other
:43:01. > :43:06.movement. Len McCluskey says he can no longer go on with the activities
:43:06. > :43:15.of a Labour Party in which I can face no trust. Do you back the
:43:15. > :43:20.general secretary or Ed Miliband? have been a member of Unite, or the
:43:20. > :43:29.T7G, as it was then, as long as I have been a member of the Labour
:43:30. > :43:34.Party. -- or the T&G. Will Ed Miliband have to resign? The truth
:43:34. > :43:39.is that the people who have to win the members of our party, many whom
:43:39. > :43:44.are trade unionist as well, all of whom have a lot to contribute and
:43:44. > :43:50.offer. They have a right to decide what happens in their own party.
:43:50. > :43:55.your sympathies lie with Len McCluskey or Ed Miliband? With the
:43:55. > :44:01.trade union movement and the Labour Party, both of which have worked 400
:44:01. > :44:05.that 100 years to get rights for people in this country. We have just
:44:05. > :44:11.had the 65th birthday of the NHS, the coalition wants rid of it. We
:44:11. > :44:17.need to stick together. McClusky said that Shadow Cabinet was in the
:44:17. > :44:20.lead in initiating this attack. have not seen the Falkirk report and
:44:20. > :44:25.I am not in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't know why the police were
:44:25. > :44:29.called in, I have not seen the report. If that was the decision, it
:44:29. > :44:35.would have been made for a reason. What law is alleged to have been
:44:36. > :44:40.broken? I have not seen the Falkirk report, I do not expect the leader
:44:41. > :44:43.of the Labour Party would call the police in likely, now it is up to
:44:43. > :44:48.the police to investigate without interference. What you have seen
:44:48. > :44:52.over the last few days is that this party takes this sort of thing
:44:52. > :44:57.really seriously. You will seize on concrete recommendations from Ed
:44:57. > :45:00.Miliband about how we will rebuild democracy within our party. Without
:45:00. > :45:04.ending the link with ordinary working people across this country
:45:04. > :45:08.who rely on both the Labour Party and the unions for a better life. I
:45:08. > :45:12.wish we could say the same from other political parties. We have not
:45:12. > :45:22.been that openness or acceptance from the Conservatives about their
:45:22. > :45:31.
:45:31. > :45:35.It is true that if you're going to reduce unions' of undue political
:45:35. > :45:45.influence and been s'like selection, you are going to have to clear up
:45:45. > :45:45.
:45:45. > :45:51.your own house? -- in things like. It is overriding Ed Miliband
:45:51. > :45:56.because he is too weak. Many of these people may go on to become
:45:56. > :46:05.MPs. The local Labour Party is very weak on the ground. It shows
:46:05. > :46:13.effectively between two Unite candidates and one of them won. The
:46:13. > :46:19.a list was given by Central Office. There is no mention of impropriety.
:46:19. > :46:23.The unions tell Labour MPs how to vote. The Labour Party is
:46:23. > :46:29.controlled by the unions and they're giving parliamentary passes
:46:29. > :46:36.to union representatives. How do you explain the fact that Michael
:46:36. > :46:41.Gove recently made John Nash - one of the biggest donors and minister
:46:41. > :46:51.in the House of Lords - he put one of the biggest Tory Party donors
:46:51. > :46:52.
:46:52. > :46:58.into education? I work with him. Both parties have links with donors.
:46:58. > :47:07.John Nash is hoping to secure a new free school. I am grateful for the
:47:07. > :47:12.expertise he brings to the role. is about exerting influence.
:47:12. > :47:20.accept that. Which donors make donations to all the political
:47:20. > :47:27.parties. -- rich donors. There is no suggestion that rich donors in
:47:27. > :47:31.the Conservative Party are choosing the MPs. Unions are not rich donors.
:47:31. > :47:36.They are made up of individuals paying an individual levy to the
:47:36. > :47:43.trade union. They have a ballot about whether they want to donate
:47:43. > :47:50.to the Labour Party. All the money they give is to the Labour Party.
:47:50. > :47:57.There is a ballot. There is a huge issue here. It comes partly to
:47:57. > :48:01.political funding. I think the real problem with the influence within
:48:01. > :48:07.Labour - unions do some fantastic work - I am very pleased with some
:48:07. > :48:13.of it. They are getting too big and too powerful. They have incredibly
:48:13. > :48:19.well-paid bosses. It is really tricky for Ed Miliband. He did not
:48:20. > :48:25.win the vote among MPs. He did not win the vote among the Labour Party.
:48:25. > :48:31.Allegations work it was the unions that gave them victory. I really
:48:31. > :48:37.hope one of the things we can do is that we can change how party
:48:37. > :48:47.funding works. It should have been bowled together for them,
:48:47. > :48:48.
:48:48. > :48:55.particularly when Unite accept the majority of members vote Labour.
:48:55. > :49:02.is a very important issue. Is that why he is doing it? It is very
:49:02. > :49:06.important. When I first came out, we all thought when Labour Party is
:49:06. > :49:12.controlled by the unions. More and more has been revealed. They are
:49:12. > :49:18.controlling individual selection. It has been revealed the number of
:49:18. > :49:28.union officials which have been given parliamentary passes coast to
:49:28. > :49:31.
:49:31. > :49:36.the heart of the Labour Party. -- goes to the heart. In terms of
:49:36. > :49:42.retaining grassroots support, it is failing. It is about keeping
:49:42. > :49:49.grassroots Tories on board. A survey shows a 19% of Tory members
:49:49. > :49:59.are seriously considering poking UKIP and others think they're not
:49:59. > :49:59.
:49:59. > :50:03.being respected by the leadership. I do not know how many members were
:50:03. > :50:09.polled. I accept it on the face of it but this Bill is about the
:50:09. > :50:13.commitment made by David Cameron about negotiating the relationship
:50:13. > :50:23.again with the European Union. It would be put to a boat and it would
:50:23. > :50:27.
:50:27. > :50:33.be an inn/apt choice. -- 8 vote. Youth -- you accept this? I do not
:50:33. > :50:38.think so. It was long before this issue really arose. I am pleased to
:50:38. > :50:43.be bringing it forward. Over a generation of people have not had a
:50:43. > :50:47.say in membership. It has been painful to see the Conservatives
:50:47. > :50:56.try to cope with this. It really is a desperate attempt to tried to
:50:56. > :51:02.play Kate UKIP. That is a great shame. -- tried to placate UKIP.
:51:02. > :51:10.There should be a referendum when there is a transfer of power. But
:51:10. > :51:17.does what we passed into law in the European Union Act of 2011. I think
:51:17. > :51:20.that is right. I wanted to be an in/out referendum. We benefit
:51:20. > :51:27.massively from being within Europe. That has to be when there was
:51:27. > :51:32.something to be discussed. It was incredibly damaging. It hits the
:51:32. > :51:35.economy and confidence. We see that obsession throughout the
:51:35. > :51:42.Conservatives. Police say if we get rid of the European arrest warrant,
:51:42. > :51:50.it will be harder for people to get justice. Ates a simple concession
:51:50. > :51:55.with the Conservatives. the survey demonstrates people do not believe
:51:55. > :52:05.David Cameron when he says at some point there will be a referendum.
:52:05. > :52:08.
:52:08. > :52:11.The number of Liberal Democrats campaigned against the referendum.
:52:11. > :52:16.The Liberal Democrats campaigned for it. They have changed their
:52:16. > :52:22.mind. People do not trust politicians of all parties. It is a
:52:22. > :52:27.good thing to show intent. This is meant to be Conservative Party
:52:27. > :52:31.policy, whether it is successful or not. It is not about to enshrining
:52:31. > :52:40.in law the guarantee the British people will be given a say on and
:52:40. > :52:47.in/out for it. No parliament can bind its successor. It is not a
:52:47. > :52:53.complete guarantee? It is as close as it can be. Will Labour off and
:52:53. > :52:57.in/out referendum? I agree with what Julian said about offering a
:52:57. > :53:01.referendum at point where there is a transfer of powers. It is the
:53:01. > :53:06.wrong priority at the wrong time. We have 1 million people in this
:53:06. > :53:11.country who cannot get a job, who were desperately trying because the
:53:11. > :53:15.economy is in such a mess. It is about the Tory Party talking about
:53:15. > :53:19.their own priorities. They should concentrate on rebuilding the
:53:19. > :53:25.economy. An increasing number of Labour MPs are calling for an
:53:25. > :53:35.in/out referendum. Discussions privately article 4 and in/out
:53:35. > :53:40.election before the next election. -- are for and in/out election.
:53:40. > :53:44.colleague is also drawn in the private member's ballot. He has
:53:44. > :53:49.brought in a cap on excessive charges from legal loan sharks.
:53:49. > :53:55.That issue was huge in Wigan and across the country. We should make
:53:55. > :54:00.these things a priority. Do you think Labour will often this?
:54:00. > :54:07.have not ruled it out but there is the real issue about the economy in
:54:07. > :54:10.getting it back on track. That has to be the top priority. Stay with
:54:10. > :54:12.us. Now, it may be called the mother of parliaments but sometimes
:54:12. > :54:15.the behaviour of its members is less than edifying. And Julian
:54:15. > :54:25.Huppert here has been on the receiving end of some their more
:54:25. > :54:26.
:54:26. > :54:34.childish outbursts There is just The energy bill is legislating to
:54:34. > :54:40.force energy companies to give people the lowest tariffs. I am
:54:40. > :54:50.sorry, Mr Speaker. It is very discourteous of the house to issue
:54:50. > :54:51.
:54:51. > :54:56.a collective groan. -- the House. Notably, on the opposition benches.
:54:56. > :55:05.It is quite inexplicable. I have called the good doctor. Let's hear
:55:05. > :55:12.from him. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Speaker. This is National carers
:55:12. > :55:15.Week. Will the Prime Minister join me in paying tribute...? If the
:55:15. > :55:22.session has to be extended to accommodate the democratic rights
:55:22. > :55:32.of members, it will be extended. The Honourable Gentleman will - are
:55:32. > :55:35.
:55:35. > :55:43.repeat will - be heard. Thank you. Two days ago it saw the start of
:55:43. > :55:49.independent retailers month. How do you characterise that behaviour?
:55:49. > :55:57.is clearly inappropriate - Beatty's bullying. It moves around. The
:55:58. > :56:04.Elizna Naude sexist behaviour and deeply rude behaviour. -- deeply
:56:04. > :56:08.rude. I have made comments it was bullying. It is fine. I will keep
:56:08. > :56:13.going. It must make you feel pretty dreadful. And number of people have
:56:13. > :56:18.come up to me and thanked me for commenting on it. They choose not
:56:18. > :56:24.to stand up on speed because of the atmosphere. To get more women into
:56:24. > :56:30.Parliament, we have to show it is a mature place. Do you agree with
:56:30. > :56:35.that? It does seem extremely pathetic. I would say PMQs is a
:56:35. > :56:40.national embarrassment. It shows the worst of politics. One thing I
:56:40. > :56:43.have been surprised about since I got elected is how much the party's
:56:43. > :56:47.work cross-party and with other people from other size to get
:56:47. > :56:54.through things in the national interest. Parties what we need to
:56:54. > :57:01.be showing. Not that childish behaviour. There is a difference
:57:01. > :57:07.between that sort of cheering for an individual - at the Theatre of
:57:07. > :57:13.PMQs - it is quite interesting and entertaining. It is an
:57:13. > :57:19.embarrassment. There will be those who can see it differently. This
:57:19. > :57:23.barracking of individual MPs is totally unacceptable, isn't it?
:57:23. > :57:28.is. I do not entirely agree that Prime Minister's Questions is a
:57:28. > :57:32.national embarrassment. The mood of the House is important. You get a
:57:32. > :57:40.feel of what other people think by what is happening around you. It is
:57:40. > :57:45.quite isolated. What breaks through is the feeling as to how the House
:57:45. > :57:55.reacts. It should not be aimed at an individual. That aspect is wrong.
:57:55. > :57:58.
:57:58. > :58:02.Theatre of Parliament is part of it. Has John Bercow helped matters?
:58:02. > :58:06.think it is a very tough job for the Speaker to try to control
:58:07. > :58:11.things. He has not always done things I consider most helpful. We
:58:11. > :58:21.want to keep energy but it should be about responding to what people
:58:21. > :58:26.
:58:26. > :58:29.say. It needs to stop for everybody. . The question was Fred Perry was
:58:29. > :58:32.the last Brit to win Wimbledon 77 years ago. Which of these facts
:58:32. > :58:36.about life in Britain in 1936 is not true? A) university graduates
:58:36. > :58:39.had two votes. B) a loaf of bread cost 4.5 pence. C) Women had to
:58:39. > :58:42.have a licence to wear trousers in public. Or d) the average house
:58:42. > :58:47.price was �550. Probably the women. Well done. You are right. Thank you
:58:47. > :58:54.to my three guests - the three MPs. For 1 o'clock News is starting over