Conference Special

:00:37. > :00:42.Afternoon folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. The weather in

:00:42. > :00:44.Brighton's rather unremarkable, unlike the Labour conference, which

:00:44. > :00:50.is turning into rather a stormy affair. Mainly because of a former

:00:50. > :00:56.spin doctor and a certain book he'd like to sell. But fear not my policy

:00:56. > :01:02.wonks, there is substance to the event too. In fact it's been hard to

:01:02. > :01:06.keep Mr Miliband quiet. He's been keen to take centre stage - or at

:01:06. > :01:09.least centre table - to announce he'd reverse the so-called bedroom

:01:09. > :01:13.tax, he's been offering child care sweeteners and a brand new

:01:13. > :01:16.apprenticeship scheme. Today the Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls will be

:01:16. > :01:19.taking the limelight, fleshing out the party's economic policy. Let's

:01:19. > :01:25.hope his strategy for the country is better than his footballing skills.

:01:25. > :01:29.Should it be move over Balls, come back Darling? Adam's been putting

:01:29. > :01:36.the "who should be Shadow Chancellor conundrum" to the mood box test. Who

:01:36. > :01:44.would you rather hang out with? Ed conundrum" to the mood box test. Who

:01:44. > :01:47.Balls. He is just so hunky! And we'll have you spinning in your

:01:47. > :01:50.armchairs till you're dizzy with not one but two former spin doctors on

:01:50. > :01:58.the programme. Messrs Campbell and Wheelan. It could get ugly!

:01:58. > :02:04.All that in the next 90 minutes, and with us for the whole programme

:02:04. > :02:08.today we've got two top economists - the financial analyst, Louise Cooper

:02:08. > :02:19.and Ann Pettifor who was one of the few economists to forsee the

:02:19. > :02:27.economic crisis. She's in her prime. Welcome to you both. So it's

:02:27. > :02:32.Labour's annual big bash, time for the party to put a little bit of

:02:32. > :02:35.flesh to its bones, so to speak, and the party Leader Ed Miliband has

:02:35. > :02:38.been busy making a series of major policy announcements. First came

:02:38. > :02:41.confirmation that Labour would scrap what it calls the bedroom tax - a

:02:41. > :02:44.housing benefit cut for people living in social housing with spare

:02:44. > :02:47.bedrooms. Mr Miliband's also promised all parents of primary

:02:47. > :02:54.school children guaranteed access to childcare through their school from

:02:54. > :02:58.8am to 6pm. And he wants big firms to train up an apprentice every time

:02:58. > :03:04.they bring in a worker from outside the EU. Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls

:03:04. > :03:06.is also getting in on the act, pledging to increase free childcare

:03:06. > :03:10.for three and four-year-olds of working parents from the current 15

:03:10. > :03:16.hours to 25 hours a week. But how much will all this cost and how will

:03:16. > :03:18.the party pay for it all? The Conservatives claim Labour's now

:03:18. > :03:24.made almost £28 billion of unfunded spending commitments. Ed Balls'

:03:24. > :03:27.answer to this is that he wants the Office for Budget Responsibility to

:03:27. > :03:38.scrutinise all Labour's tax and spending plans before the election.

:03:39. > :03:45.It's Labour making itself vulnerable to the charge that it is a tax and

:03:45. > :03:52.spend party again? I think it is, actually. It is engaged in petty

:03:52. > :03:58.politics, it seems, and salami slice economic 's. A bit of this and a bit

:03:58. > :04:04.of that. Childcare here, tax increases there, where is the

:04:04. > :04:09.wreath, I would ask. We want the big picture, the big story, we want

:04:09. > :04:16.hope. Instead, what we are getting is these slices of economic policy,

:04:16. > :04:21.which don't add up. They are not part of a big vision. I have to say,

:04:21. > :04:26.I don't agree with the need to actually finance childcare with tax

:04:26. > :04:32.rises. We can do it by increasing economic activity. In particular,

:04:32. > :04:37.jobs and employment. That is what Labour is there to do. But they are

:04:37. > :04:42.going to tell us they're not good to do what they did in the past. All

:04:42. > :04:45.political parties have to get used to the fact there is no money

:04:45. > :04:49.around, they have to tighten their belts, and make sure they stay

:04:49. > :04:55.within a tight financial straitjacket. But that is not what

:04:55. > :05:01.it seems. Of course, politicians love to announce grandly and loudly

:05:01. > :05:07.their plans for spending. What you rarely hear that transfer how

:05:07. > :05:11.they're going to finance it. That is my key criticism of what they are

:05:11. > :05:16.doing now. You give us your plans, we want to know how you will fund

:05:16. > :05:24.them. Remember, the deficit-cutting continues for many, many years. In

:05:24. > :05:28.2015 to 2016, which is what we're talking about, what we are still

:05:28. > :05:32.expecting to have a 90 billion deficit. So we are still spending 19

:05:32. > :05:39.Ilium more than we are getting in taxation. -- 90 billion. So it is

:05:39. > :05:47.not like that will be a year of plenty. Ed Balls will announce 25

:05:47. > :05:52.hours of free childcare, and he will finance it by taxing the banks, but

:05:52. > :05:56.I put this to you. George Osborne has already been doing it. He has

:05:56. > :06:00.increased the rank levy because he's not getting as much as he says he

:06:00. > :06:05.wants out of it. Financial services are in decline in this country now,

:06:05. > :06:12.is there really scope to do it this way? To be honest, our economy is in

:06:12. > :06:18.so much trouble, we can't really be taking more out of it than it is

:06:18. > :06:22.capable of creating. So what is wrong with this is the idea that you

:06:23. > :06:28.finance 1-piece with a bit of tax rises here, the way in which to fix

:06:28. > :06:33.the budget deficit is to increase employment. We have 2.5 million

:06:33. > :06:36.people in the country are unemployed, it is a mass and

:06:36. > :06:41.employment situation, we had never lived with so much unemployment for

:06:41. > :06:49.so long. There was 3 million unemployed in the 80s? For most of

:06:49. > :06:53.the 80s. But it would deal with unemployment, the deficit will look

:06:53. > :06:58.after itself. I wonder if he understands that if it takes 800

:06:58. > :07:04.million out of the banks, it is that much of their capital, which given

:07:04. > :07:10.that banks use leverage, banks will therefore be lending to the economy,

:07:10. > :07:13.which is what petitions say, billions and billions less. If you

:07:13. > :07:17.take money out of the banking sector, it cannot lend as much, that

:07:17. > :07:23.is the maths. I wonder if he realises that. We will speak to his

:07:23. > :07:27.spokesman Chris Leslie later. Earlier this morning Ed Balls was

:07:27. > :07:30.interviewed on BBC Breakfast. Asked by Bill Turnbull whether he'd ever

:07:30. > :07:33.been involved in the same kind of negative briefing as Damian McBride,

:07:33. > :07:38.the Shadow Chancellor was keen to emphasise his new-found cuddly

:07:38. > :07:42.credentials. That's not something I have ever done, it is the wrong way

:07:42. > :07:46.to do politics. He says he has done those things, it was despicable, the

:07:46. > :07:51.wrong thing to do. Critics is tough, and they have been times in the past

:07:51. > :07:53.where I have had strong arguments with Tony Blair, with Gordon Brown

:07:53. > :07:56.where I have had strong arguments on different issues, but I have

:07:56. > :08:01.always done that in an open way. This kind of negative, nasty

:08:01. > :08:06.briefing is wrong, but also, it's a thing of the past. That Iran is

:08:06. > :08:12.gone, it is not how Ed Miliband and I are doing things in the Labour

:08:12. > :08:17.Party is gone. -- that era is gone. We are in a better place now. We all

:08:17. > :08:22.are nowadays! So are the Brownites and the

:08:22. > :08:28.Blairites at war? Can they give it up and get proper jobs? Who better

:08:28. > :08:35.to give us the mood of conference than a couple of tabloid hacks. I

:08:35. > :08:41.should fire whoever called you that! The Mirror's Kevin Maguire and the

:08:41. > :08:44.Sun's Emily Ashton. Welcome to you both. Kevin, what are they talking

:08:44. > :08:51.about in the pubs and bars and lounges of Brighton? Quantitative

:08:51. > :08:56.easing or Damian McBride? If you say that, it is more Damien Wright, but

:08:56. > :09:02.actually there is surprisingly little, because that is at a level

:09:02. > :09:06.for the people who come here, they take a week off work and pay their

:09:06. > :09:10.own way. But there is some chatter around that, it is the recent past

:09:10. > :09:12.but what they are talking about really is how terrible the Tories

:09:12. > :09:22.are, you get a lot of that. Thank really is how terrible the Tories

:09:23. > :09:27.you for that scoop! But it tells you something about the mindset, Andrew,

:09:27. > :09:32.it is always looking at the Coalition, attacking them. As I

:09:32. > :09:37.think coming some way behind is a discussion about where labour is,

:09:37. > :09:43.the policies, the bedroom tax, but also that talk about Ed Miliband

:09:43. > :09:51.two. At best, you will get people saying he has to do better. Do you

:09:51. > :09:59.agree with that? I was in a bar last night... I can see! Everybody was

:09:59. > :10:06.talking about McBride. There were a lot of MPs around, a lot of ex-MPs,

:10:06. > :10:12.everybody was saying, and my name checked in the book? It is pure

:10:12. > :10:16.gossip. But maybe this is an out there on the streets as much as the

:10:16. > :10:21.cost of living prices, but the fact that Ed Miliband and Ed Balls were

:10:21. > :10:26.involved in this is actually an issue for real people as well as

:10:26. > :10:32.journalists and MPs who are here. I am told that Gordon Brown has

:10:32. > :10:35.descended and is on the conference -- at the conference. Is there any

:10:35. > :10:45.chance he is good to say something about this? Absolutely, really, the

:10:45. > :10:51.person who loses out most is Gordon Brown, who include Damian McBride,

:10:51. > :10:55.and as he said, actually kind of knew who what was going on -- who

:10:55. > :11:00.employed Damian McBride. If we fighting, I will ask him! I didn't

:11:00. > :11:06.know he was here. But he can sometimes be elusive. You always

:11:06. > :11:13.learn something when you are on the Daily Politics. Kevin mentioned that

:11:13. > :11:14.a lot of Labour activists think Ed Miliband has to do better. Would I

:11:14. > :11:19.a lot of Labour activists think Ed be right in thinking they may think

:11:19. > :11:22.that even more after his interview with Andrew Marr yesterday, got

:11:22. > :11:26.pretty bad reviews in the papers are even in the Labour papers? I think

:11:26. > :11:31.this is all about showing that Ed even in the Labour papers? I think

:11:31. > :11:37.Miliband can be prime minister, and I'm not sure he has put in flesh on

:11:37. > :11:45.the bones, he talks about minimum wage, cracking down on employers who

:11:45. > :11:50.don't pay it, and raising the minimum wage, but there is no detail

:11:50. > :11:54.on those policies. Until he does that, you can't really take him

:11:54. > :12:03.seriously as the next party leader in government. But it you think of

:12:03. > :12:07.his performance yesterday? I wish I had watched it with my eyes closed,

:12:07. > :12:09.he sits rather awkwardly, he keeps looking down, it's a visual medium

:12:09. > :12:13.and if someone looks awkward on the looking down, it's a visual medium

:12:13. > :12:17.TV, you think there aren't as are going to be awkward. I wasn't as

:12:17. > :12:22.critical as many people, because there are signs of a manifesto and a

:12:22. > :12:27.programme, and yes, there are chunks missing, we are 20 months from a

:12:27. > :12:32.general election, it would be odd if you put the manifesto forward now.

:12:32. > :12:35.But things like child care, the bedroom tax, the minimum wage is

:12:35. > :12:41.important for many people who don't get it and want it enforced. He has

:12:41. > :12:44.a long way to go, and he has too convinced the public that he has

:12:44. > :12:49.what it takes to get into Downing Street and be a prime minister and

:12:49. > :12:54.he keeps falling short on that. His poll ratings are poor, not as bad as

:12:54. > :13:03.Nick Clegg 's. That's a pretty good yardstick! Emily, when he was

:13:03. > :13:08.talking yesterday about the referendum on Europe, in or out, he

:13:08. > :13:13.said, we have made our position very, very clear and then he added,

:13:13. > :13:19.but we will make our position clear in the manifesto. That's eight, the

:13:19. > :13:24.position is not clear and he is able to sit on the fence until he can see

:13:24. > :13:30.where the wind is blowing and what the public wants. This is typical of

:13:30. > :13:32.his leadership, I have to say. He comes up with these ideas but

:13:32. > :13:38.doesn't actually put any flesh on the bones at all until the last

:13:38. > :13:43.minute. David Cameron has promised a referendum in 2017 and it might be

:13:43. > :13:44.difficult to renegotiate the relationship with Brussels in the

:13:44. > :13:49.meantime but at least he has come up relationship with Brussels in the

:13:49. > :13:52.with the proposal. Damian McBride is coming to the conference, he's going

:13:52. > :13:56.to do an interview with Newsnight, coming to the conference, he's going

:13:56. > :14:06.he will then be on the Daily Politics tomorrow. If he gets out!

:14:06. > :14:09.Will he need a couple of minders? I think people want receiving well

:14:09. > :14:13.because they will feel at this time, the Daily Mail, he shouldn't be

:14:13. > :14:22.washing labour 's dirty linen in public. I admire his honesty but

:14:22. > :14:27.maybe not his timing. Kevin, Emily, our new superb double act, I think

:14:27. > :14:37.it was for the money! Go and enjoy yourselves. The question for

:14:37. > :14:43.today's quiz, which of these is the only one that does not made Ed Balls

:14:43. > :14:49.cry, at least as far as we know! The Antiques Roadshow, Bambi, American

:14:49. > :15:03.sitcom titled his modern family, or the Sound Of Music? -- Modern Family

:15:03. > :15:08.full stop now, what do you do if you are a former Labour spin doctor.

:15:08. > :15:11.If you are Damian McBride, you write a salacious book about your years in

:15:11. > :15:20.office and hope you get a lot of one go for it. If you are Alistair

:15:20. > :15:24.Campbell, , you go running with Andy Burnham to raise awareness about

:15:24. > :15:28.alcohol misuse. A pretty good subject for a party conference, I

:15:28. > :15:31.can tell you! I interviewed him yesterday for the Sunday Politics,

:15:31. > :15:37.and he so enjoy that he is back again for and two, but first, as a

:15:37. > :15:42.special treat, let's talk to another famous spin doctor from the

:15:42. > :15:47.Brown-Blair years. Yes, I speak of none other than Charlie Whelan,

:15:47. > :15:52.there he is, smiling away in the gloom of Brighton! Welcome to the

:15:52. > :15:57.Daily Politics. Good morning, it is very pleasant to be back in

:15:57. > :16:01.Brighton. It is a pleasure to see you there. Alistair Campbell says

:16:01. > :16:03.that you are evil, evil is the word he used! What do you make of that? I

:16:03. > :16:08.that you are evil, evil is the word don't know, I just bumped into him

:16:08. > :16:11.downstairs, we had a little chat to talk about his football team,

:16:11. > :16:18.Burnley, not doing as well as my team, but he didn't say anything

:16:18. > :16:25.like that. He did, he said it on Sky News! You would not say it to me,

:16:25. > :16:28.because he knows how much I would defend you! I do not bother with

:16:28. > :16:30.because he knows how much I would this kind of nonsense. People here

:16:30. > :16:36.want to talk about jobs, living standards, the NHS, the minimum

:16:36. > :16:39.wage. They are not interested in books by Damian McBride, Alistair

:16:39. > :16:45.Campbell or anybody else, which is why I never wrote a book. I have got

:16:45. > :16:50.bad news for you, I am interested! So I am going to keep on with the

:16:50. > :16:54.questions. I notice Kevin Maguire said, will Damian McBride get a

:16:54. > :16:59.welcome here? Most of the delegates will not recognising, they do not

:16:59. > :17:03.know who he is. This is just stop for the media. I went into the press

:17:03. > :17:06.room, and the media was talking about Damian McBride. I went into

:17:06. > :17:09.the conference area to talk to delegates and a number of old

:17:09. > :17:18.friends, and nobody mentioned him. The people are interested in jobs,

:17:18. > :17:20.living standards and the NHS. They are not as brave as me, that is why

:17:20. > :17:24.living standards and the NHS. They I am going to as the these

:17:24. > :17:27.questions. Did you know that Damian McBride got up to this sort of thing

:17:27. > :17:31.cause me as you probably know as a student of politics, when I worked

:17:31. > :17:37.for Gordon Brown in opposition then for a few years at the Treasury, I

:17:37. > :17:41.met Damian McBride, I never met him, he did not come onto the scene

:17:41. > :17:45.until three years after I had left frontline politics. He was there

:17:45. > :17:52.when you were political officer for Unite. He was indeed, yes. So did

:17:52. > :17:59.you know that he was and the mining political careers of Labour

:17:59. > :18:04.colleagues like John Reid, Charles Clarke? -- undermining. I am sure

:18:04. > :18:08.John Reid and Charles Clarke could look after themselves! Andrew, I

:18:09. > :18:12.know you are interested in this, but if you talk about Damian McBride, go

:18:12. > :18:16.to Alistair Campbell, who was waiting for you. I don't want to

:18:16. > :18:21.talk about it, and neither do delegates. People think you were a

:18:21. > :18:25.forerunner for Damian McBride, that you were pretty tough on anybody

:18:25. > :18:32.that got in Gordon Brown's way - is that true? I suppose I was from a

:18:32. > :18:36.different era, most of the time I was working was in opposition, where

:18:36. > :18:42.it is a hard fight to win an election, which is why both eggs are

:18:42. > :18:49.finding it difficult - opposition is difficult. -- Eds. It is a tough job

:18:49. > :18:53.being a press officer, because we have to deal with people like you,

:18:53. > :18:58.Andrew, Alistair Campbell did a good job, and so did I, but that was many

:18:58. > :19:02.moons ago. Alistair Campbell said to me yesterday that there was no

:19:02. > :19:06.equivalence between what he and Peter Mandelson did and what you and

:19:06. > :19:11.Damian McBride did, that you were much rubber, much tougher, much more

:19:11. > :19:18.brutal, much more unscrupulous. -- Robert. Oh, dear, I wish, I wish!

:19:18. > :19:23.Oh, dear, oh, dear. Did he rerelease say that?! I will have a word with

:19:23. > :19:28.him afterwards! Only after I have had a word with him. There are

:19:28. > :19:32.reports that you were copied in on briefing e-mail that were sent out

:19:32. > :19:36.by Damian McBride in 2009. You must have known what was going on. Were

:19:36. > :19:42.you? I had no idea what he was up to, and neither did Gordon Brown,

:19:42. > :19:47.because I must say that I do genuinely think that Gordon Brown

:19:47. > :19:50.would be more shocked than anybody with some of the allegations that

:19:50. > :19:58.have been made in this book. Really?! I do think... Gold belt

:19:58. > :20:03.this man was obsessive for detail, he read the papers avidly, he wanted

:20:03. > :20:07.to know where every story came from, and you are telling me that he saw

:20:07. > :20:11.these things, oh, Charles Clarke is in a briefing war, no idea where

:20:11. > :20:18.that came from! The idea that Charles Clarke could not look after

:20:18. > :20:19.himself, or John Reid, an old comrades in the Communist Party era,

:20:19. > :20:23.himself, or John Reid, an old it is ridiculous. I am sure you have

:20:23. > :20:28.enjoyed reading it, I certainly have not read any of these books. I never

:20:29. > :20:32.read Alistair Campbell's books, Tony Blair's books. When I worked in

:20:32. > :20:37.government, I felt that what was happening was private. If I had a

:20:37. > :20:41.bad Jonny that said, when I leave, I am going to write about what

:20:41. > :20:45.everybody said, there are enough, but I didn't, and I think it is

:20:45. > :20:49.dishonest, I do not like these books. I certainly do not like

:20:49. > :20:59.Damian McBride's book. Did you not like Alistair Campbell's diaries? I

:20:59. > :21:03.bet you looked yourself up in the index! Why would I possibly be

:21:03. > :21:10.interested in that?! I am interested in real politics, which is about

:21:10. > :21:13.what happening in this country, living standards, about getting a

:21:14. > :21:18.Labour government and getting rid of the Tories. All right, we got our

:21:18. > :21:23.message, thank you for joining us. Now, Ed Balls is bidding later this

:21:23. > :21:26.morning, but before we do the build-up to that, let's go to

:21:26. > :21:31.Alistair Campbell, who I think could hear what we were saying, and he

:21:31. > :21:38.joins us again, twice in two days, it is too much for me! Same time as

:21:38. > :21:44.well. I have changed mine, but it is the same colour! What did you make

:21:44. > :21:48.of Charlie Whelan? Just doing his job, never delete thing wrong, this

:21:49. > :21:55.is all a waste of time nobody cares? Well, I think I would say

:21:55. > :21:59.borderline... No, not borderline, dishonest. He is right that the

:21:59. > :22:04.delegates do not want to talk about it and would rather focus on jobs,

:22:04. > :22:12.the economy, because these abuses that matter to people, but I think

:22:12. > :22:15.that you cannot go through the decade that went through with the

:22:15. > :22:19.sort of politics that they operated in and explain to come along and

:22:19. > :22:23.say, oh, I don't read books, I don't know what is going on. I thought you

:22:23. > :22:28.were right to press him with some of the questions that you did, because

:22:28. > :22:31.the idea that he has not read those books as well is, I suspect,

:22:31. > :22:34.borderline dishonest as well. The point is that when he talks about

:22:34. > :22:37.borderline dishonest as well. The wanting to get a Labour government,

:22:37. > :22:41.one of the reasons we don't have a Labour government is because of the

:22:41. > :22:46.way that people like this behaved when we were in government. Because

:22:46. > :22:51.a narrative was fed to the public, day in, day out, that Tony Blair was

:22:51. > :22:53.not very good at his job, that any minister who was frankly very good

:22:53. > :22:56.not very good at his job, that any at his job and thereby seen as a

:22:56. > :23:02.threat by people like him and McBride were consistently briefed

:23:02. > :23:06.against. You made the point, and he tried to laugh it off, about me

:23:06. > :23:10.saying that Peter Mandelson and I, we never saw an equivalence, and I

:23:11. > :23:15.did not. The reason why I felt that we were different to them is because

:23:15. > :23:19.we understood we were part of a team, and as you know, you have been

:23:19. > :23:24.around politics for a long time. This can get very tough, things can

:23:24. > :23:26.get very heated, because the issues matter. But the reason why I am

:23:26. > :23:30.still angry at people like Whelan matter. But the reason why I am

:23:30. > :23:34.and McBride, and to be frank, let me say, Andrew, a lot of the journalist

:23:35. > :23:38.who are now running around saying, how terrible these people work, they

:23:38. > :23:42.were taking this poison. You just add Kevin Maguire on the programme.

:23:42. > :23:47.Kevin Maguire would take their messages every day of the week. And

:23:47. > :23:50.on a paper like the Daily Mirror, they would damage the Labour

:23:50. > :23:54.government of the time. These people frankly, I have no time for them, I

:23:54. > :23:58.never will have time for them, because they are among the reasons

:23:58. > :24:01.why we have a Conservative government screwing up the recovery,

:24:01. > :24:05.the health service, punishing people on welfare, and with a foreign

:24:05. > :24:08.policy in shambles. That is why it is right that that is what matters,

:24:08. > :24:10.policy in shambles. That is why it and they are partly responsible for

:24:10. > :24:15.the Conservatives now being in power and us being out of power. You know,

:24:15. > :24:18.for Damian McBride to come here and stinky can have his 15 minutes of

:24:18. > :24:22.fame, he can sell as many thousands of his books as he wants, but he

:24:22. > :24:24.should have it on his conscience that one of the reasons we have a

:24:24. > :24:28.should have it on his conscience conservative and not a Labour

:24:28. > :24:32.government is because he spent his whole time inside government at

:24:32. > :24:36.taxpayers expense on the payroll, frankly undermining the

:24:36. > :24:39.effectiveness and performance and leadership of that government. Lets

:24:39. > :24:43.come onto the position that Labour finds itself in now, because I said

:24:43. > :24:47.yesterday that when you were with Labour and in opposition, you at

:24:47. > :24:50.this stage in the political cycle were always well ahead in the

:24:50. > :24:55.polls, and certainly in the run up to 1997, looking like he would win

:24:55. > :24:59.by a comfortable majority, maybe not as big as it subsequently became,

:24:59. > :25:03.that surprised a lot of people, but big. At the moment, the polls are

:25:04. > :25:08.narrowing, Labour is not that far ahead of the Tories, on economic

:25:08. > :25:14.confidence the Tories are ahead in the polls. This is an unusual

:25:14. > :25:18.situation for Labour. Well, I think one of the difficulties for Labour

:25:18. > :25:24.is that the currently ship, Ed Miliband, Ed Balls and a lot of

:25:24. > :25:30.winning environment. -- current leadership. I think a lot of people

:25:30. > :25:34.sensed we were going to win in 1997, and that is when most of them came

:25:34. > :25:37.into active Labour politics. Those of us who had been through the Neil

:25:37. > :25:41.Kinnock era and Thatcher winning election after election, we remember

:25:41. > :25:44.what it was like to be in that position and what it was like to be

:25:44. > :25:50.in a losing and environment, and it is a very difficult place to be.

:25:50. > :25:53.See, I think it'll be interesting to hear what Ed Balls has to say, but

:25:53. > :25:59.one of the things that the Labour Party has not properly is rebut this

:25:59. > :26:03.whole message from the coalition about the mess that we inherited.

:26:03. > :26:08.Strategically, the Conservatives now do not need to have that much of a

:26:08. > :26:11.recovery to be able to say, look, we inherited this mess and we are

:26:11. > :26:15.starting to move on the right direction. The truth is they did not

:26:15. > :26:20.inherit the mess - they inherited an international financial crisis which

:26:20. > :26:24.Gordon handled pretty well, and we had ten years of growth and

:26:24. > :26:27.prosperity under Labour. I think the public have been allowed to have

:26:27. > :26:31.this message given, the mess we inherited. We need to challenge

:26:31. > :26:35.that, and obviously most importantly it is about forward policy and the

:26:35. > :26:40.policy agenda for the future, and this is the week that has to get put

:26:40. > :26:44.out to the public. The public do not follow politics like you do, they do

:26:44. > :26:48.not follow politics like your viewers do, who are obviously

:26:48. > :26:51.interested. Most of the public are getting on with their lives, they

:26:51. > :26:54.just did in and out of the debate, but between now and the election the

:26:55. > :26:58.key policy platforms on which we will fight the next election, they

:26:58. > :27:02.have got to be at there, they have got to be clear, they have got to

:27:02. > :27:06.fit a coherent strategy, and the other thing is we have to start

:27:06. > :27:17.taking lumps out of this incompetent, useless government. A

:27:17. > :27:19.final point, you are in Brighton as part of your campaigning against

:27:19. > :27:21.alcohol abuse and to raise awareness of these issues - some people will

:27:21. > :27:22.think that taking that anti-alcohol message to a party conference is a

:27:23. > :27:27.think that taking that anti-alcohol bit like taking the car ran into a

:27:27. > :27:35.synagogue. How is it going? And I am here to plug a book! No, it is about

:27:35. > :27:39.alcoholism. Did you have that down your trousers?! Yes, I did, you do

:27:39. > :27:47.not want to go there! I would not your trousers?! Yes, I did, you do

:27:47. > :27:51.take that particular copy! It is down there now. No, the points

:27:51. > :27:56.today, and I saw the pictures you ran of Eddie Isard, and I was really

:27:56. > :27:58.pleased to see Andy Burnham there as well, because I really hope the

:27:58. > :28:02.pleased to see Andy Burnham there as Labour Party seizes this agenda,

:28:02. > :28:04.because I think that on the food industry, on smoking and packaging,

:28:04. > :28:10.because I think that on the food and on the alcohol industry, because

:28:10. > :28:16.David Cameron went down the road of minimum unit pricing and then did a

:28:16. > :28:20.reversal Eddie Burnham -- Andy Burnham did say there was a vacuum

:28:20. > :28:26.in health policy. I am going to attempt to launch an attempt to all

:28:26. > :28:29.parties, and I'm going to the Tories next week in Manchester for the

:28:29. > :28:33.first time in 20 years, to get all the parties to commit to minimum

:28:34. > :28:38.pricing and to increasing treatment availability to people who are

:28:38. > :28:42.dependent drinkers, from 6%, which is pathetic, 6% of alcoholics get

:28:42. > :28:46.treatment at the moment, up to 15%, which are still poultry in my view,

:28:46. > :28:50.but it would be a start. And I think that you are right, these

:28:50. > :28:55.conferences swim on alcohol, and if anybody wants to come tonight,

:28:55. > :29:01.5:30pm in the Thistle Hotel, it will be the one who's free reception of

:29:01. > :29:10.the week, hosted by me and Alcohol Concern. -- who's free. We will do a

:29:10. > :29:14.hat-trick of interviews tomorrow! Do not mess up and get any food on that

:29:14. > :29:16.site if it is the only one you have got. Thanks for joining us from

:29:16. > :29:21.Brighton. got. Thanks for joining us from

:29:21. > :29:24.We are expecting Ed Balls to address conference a little after midday,

:29:24. > :29:29.but this morning it was the turn of Douglas Alexander, who was caught up

:29:29. > :29:32.in the Damian McBride memoirs as well. His foreign affairs team were

:29:32. > :29:37.trying to rally the party faithful, not always easy on foreign affairs,

:29:37. > :29:43.but let's give you a favour -- a flavour of the conference floor.

:29:43. > :29:49.When the government get it right, we flavour of the conference floor.

:29:49. > :29:54.should support them. The truth is, just look at the legacy. Forces

:29:54. > :29:58.housing has been neglected, forces and allowances have been cut and

:29:58. > :30:02.they have been sackings of specialists who served on the front

:30:02. > :30:06.line. When it came to the big vote on Syria, two government ministers

:30:06. > :30:12.lock themselves away in a soundproofed cupboard and missed the

:30:12. > :30:17.boat. Is there any wonder this is a government doesn't listen? These are

:30:17. > :30:18.the people gave us aircraft carrier without an aircraft, they are at it

:30:18. > :30:24.again. They sacked 20,000 soldiers without an aircraft, they are at it

:30:24. > :30:28.to be replaced by reservists. They now have two deployed soldiers to

:30:28. > :30:31.risk the private sector contract now have two deployed soldiers to

:30:31. > :30:36.that was meant to find the reservists to replace the soldiers

:30:36. > :30:42.that the country didn't want to lose in the first place. It's time for a

:30:42. > :30:46.new era of international cooperation, it's time to reform

:30:46. > :30:50.Europe and its institutions, strengthen NATO and better

:30:50. > :30:53.coordinate capabilities. It is time to deepen our partnerships with Asia

:30:53. > :31:00.as economic power moves inexorably to the east. We need that

:31:00. > :31:05.corporation and that engagement, because you are on your own is as

:31:05. > :31:10.hopeless a guide to foreign policy as it is a guide to domestic policy

:31:10. > :31:16.here in the UK. Sadly the Conservatives just don't get that,

:31:17. > :31:20.they never have and they never will. Douglas Alexander addressing the

:31:20. > :31:22.they never have and they never will. conference this morning. We are

:31:22. > :31:30.joined now by Emma Reynolds in Brighton. Welcome back to the Daily

:31:30. > :31:34.Politics. Can I start on the German election results? The British Labour

:31:34. > :31:38.Party and the German social Democrats are very close, lots of

:31:38. > :31:47.ties between them, why did the SPD do so badly? I think the question is

:31:47. > :31:53.why did Angela Merkel do so well. No, my question is what the SPD do

:31:53. > :31:59.so badly, never mind her. The reason that the SPD did badly is because

:31:59. > :32:03.Angela Merkel is an extremely difficult politician to deal with,

:32:03. > :32:06.to oppose. I think this is really relevant. What she has done if she

:32:06. > :32:10.has stolen their clothes. She has relevant. What she has done if she

:32:10. > :32:15.talked about introducing minimum wages, she has talked about

:32:15. > :32:18.introducing rent controls, these are policies that are more typical of

:32:18. > :32:23.social Democrats, so they have really been squeezed, she has moved

:32:23. > :32:28.to the centre and taken up a lot of their ground. It has been extremely

:32:28. > :32:31.difficult for them to have policies that are distinctive, that's why

:32:31. > :32:36.they haven't done as well as we would have liked them to do. What

:32:36. > :32:43.happened in Germany hasn't happened in isolation. Why, after the slump

:32:43. > :32:52.of 2008, a slump caused by capitalists, has the right one in

:32:52. > :32:59.the UK, Spain, Greece, Australia, Norway, New Zealand, now Germany?

:32:59. > :33:02.What is wrong with the left? I do think the results of those countries

:33:02. > :33:09.are disappointing but we have also seen the centre-left win in France,

:33:09. > :33:15.lead a government in Italy... That has been a big success! There are

:33:15. > :33:19.nine countries in Europe where the centre-left leads the government, so

:33:19. > :33:25.it is not a total wash-out for the centre-left in Europe. No, but you

:33:25. > :33:28.would have thought, after the slump, which wasn't caused by trade unions

:33:28. > :33:32.or pay demands or strikes or whatever, but caused by the

:33:32. > :33:37.activities of bankers, surely you would have expected the left to

:33:37. > :33:40.activities of bankers, surely you largely sweep the board, and they

:33:40. > :33:46.haven't. So there must be something wrong with their appeal across

:33:46. > :33:53.Europe if it is doing so badly. I would like the left to do better but

:33:53. > :33:56.I also think that it is generally about anti-incumbency, and you have

:33:56. > :34:03.seen government after government in the EU for in the last two or three

:34:04. > :34:10.years, because of the economic situation -- fall. Germany is an

:34:10. > :34:14.exception, because we will see if the same thing happens in Austria,

:34:14. > :34:19.they may hang onto power, but this about incumbency and about the

:34:19. > :34:27.economic situation of the particular country. Apart from Australia, but

:34:27. > :34:33.it just shows what happens when a very divided party, in this case the

:34:33. > :34:38.Australian Labour Party, when they go to the polls, they really get

:34:38. > :34:43.punished. When you go to the polls that divided, you will receive the

:34:43. > :34:49.same treatment. Yesterday, Ed Miliband said on the BBC that labour

:34:49. > :34:58.'s policy on an in out referendum for Europe was very, very clear.

:34:58. > :35:02.What is that policy? We have been clear that we would keep on statute

:35:02. > :35:06.the legislation that has been recently passed, couple of years

:35:06. > :35:10.ago, that if there is a transfer of power from our Parliament to

:35:10. > :35:15.introduce and of the European Union based in Brussels, then there would

:35:15. > :35:18.be a referendum. But we have said we are opposed to the Tory promise of a

:35:18. > :35:22.referendum before the end of 2017, are opposed to the Tory promise of a

:35:22. > :35:27.which creates great uncertainty and could put jobs and vital foreign

:35:28. > :36:17.direct investment at risk. Thank you for that. Ed Balls is on the stage.

:36:17. > :36:25.last. An economy that works were just for the few but for working

:36:25. > :36:31.people in every part of Britain. And conference, three and a half years

:36:31. > :36:37.after the general election defeat, we have learned from that experience

:36:37. > :36:41.and our time in government. Where we got things wrong on immigration

:36:41. > :36:45.control, on the 10p tax rate, the next Labour government will be

:36:45. > :36:50.different from the last. And where change is needed in our party, we

:36:50. > :36:54.will reconnect with our members and working people across the country by

:36:54. > :37:00.making necessary changes. But conference, let us also be proud of

:37:00. > :37:05.what the last Labour government achieved. National minimum wage,

:37:05. > :37:11.schools and hospitals rebuilt, NHS waiting times down from 18 months to

:37:11. > :37:16.18 weeks. More apprenticeships, not joining the euro, 1 million more

:37:16. > :37:26.this small businesses, crime down, child poverty down, and 3000 500

:37:26. > :37:28.more sure start, one of the most important reforms ever delivered by

:37:28. > :37:39.more sure start, one of the most a Labour government. And conference,

:37:39. > :37:45.replacing the Tory abomination that was clause 28 with civil

:37:45. > :37:50.partnerships. Paving the way for a landmark reform, something that

:37:50. > :37:53.wouldn't have happened without Labour votes in parliament, the

:37:53. > :38:05.progressive triumph that is gay marriage. And as we look forward to

:38:05. > :38:11.the general election to come, determined to win a Labour majority,

:38:11. > :38:19.I want you all to know, as the Labour and co-operative MP, majority

:38:19. > :38:27.just 1101, the state that David Cameron needed to win to get a Tory

:38:27. > :38:31.majority in 2010, but because of our hard work and determination, the

:38:31. > :38:41.seat he failed to win in 2010, I am up for the battle to come. And as

:38:41. > :38:46.chair of our economic policy commission, I know this whole party

:38:46. > :38:52.is up for the battle to come. And please join me in thanking my

:38:52. > :39:04.co-chair, Margaret Eckert, for her continuing hard work and service to

:39:04. > :39:08.this party -- Margaret Beckett. Not just over the past year but in four

:39:08. > :39:22.decades in Parliament, we thank you, Margaret. And conference, as a proud

:39:22. > :39:28.member of the Unison and Unite trade unions, I know to this whole

:39:28. > :39:33.movement is up for the battle to come. And in the coming months, let

:39:33. > :39:37.us a cure the foundations for the general election. Selecting the best

:39:37. > :39:38.parliamentary candidates we have ever had, with more women candidates

:39:39. > :39:45.parliamentary candidates we have in key seats than ever before.

:39:45. > :39:50.Winning council seats and by-elections up and down the

:39:50. > :39:53.country, with the toughest and best generation of local government

:39:53. > :39:58.leaders we have ever had. Winning more seats in the European

:39:58. > :40:00.elections, and let us end next year in the European elections, the stain

:40:00. > :40:05.on our country 's reputation, by in the European elections, the stain

:40:05. > :40:21.kicking the BNP out of the European Parliament. And conference... In

:40:21. > :40:26.next September 's Scottish recommend -- referendum, now showing so

:40:26. > :40:30.powerfully up there that the case for suppression is falling apart,

:40:30. > :40:35.when Alex Salmond is in a state of total confusion on the single most

:40:35. > :40:40.important decision a country can take on the economy, which currency

:40:40. > :40:44.to have, first he wanted the euro, saying sterling was a millstone

:40:44. > :40:48.around our neck, now he says he wants independence but to keep the

:40:48. > :40:58.pound all the same. Let us win the argument that we are better together

:40:58. > :41:06.in next year 's Scottish referendum. And let us demonstrate as Welsh

:41:06. > :41:10.Labour have done so brilliantly that it is our Labour values of

:41:10. > :41:18.cooperation, solidarity and social justice that best secure our union.

:41:18. > :41:22.And conference, it is Labour whose leader is facing up to the need for

:41:22. > :41:28.reform, leading from the front on phone hacking, on banking firm,

:41:28. > :41:34.putting the crisis of the squeezed middle on the political agenda

:41:34. > :41:41.before anyone else. And who on Syria, had the courage to stand up

:41:41. > :41:45.and say that if the case was sound and the United Nations was properly

:41:45. > :41:50.engaged, Labour would support military action but that Labour

:41:50. > :41:52.would not support a gung ho prime minister putting the decision for

:41:52. > :42:07.evidence in a reckless -- to conflict. Conference, Ed Miliband

:42:07. > :42:19.was right. He prevailed. My friend, our leader, Britain 's next prime

:42:19. > :42:24.minister, Ed Miliband. And conference, when David Cameron and

:42:24. > :42:28.William Hague now have the nerve to go around saying that Parliament has

:42:29. > :42:37.Mac refusal to be bounced into military action in Syria has

:42:37. > :42:41.diminished Britain, let us reply, no Labour government will ever stand

:42:41. > :42:46.aside when terrible expertise are committed and international law is

:42:46. > :42:53.broken. -- terrible atrocities. But we know what has diminished Britain.

:42:53. > :42:57.Flouncing out of a European summit, leaving Britain without influence,

:42:57. > :43:02.isolated, that is what has diminished Britain. Absurdly

:43:02. > :43:07.comparing Britain to Greece, and choking off business confidence and

:43:07. > :43:11.our recovery, that is what has diminished Britain. Stigmatising the

:43:11. > :43:15.unemployed and low paid and calling them shirkers, driving vans read our

:43:15. > :43:20.streets, telling immigrants to go home, attacking our police, teachers

:43:20. > :43:30.and social workers, peddling the lie that Britain is broken, that is what

:43:30. > :43:36.has diminished Britain. Conference, we know who has diminished Britain.

:43:36. > :43:36.We know who has diminished Britain. David Cameron has diminished

:43:36. > :43:49.Britain. Although, didn't you feel a David Cameron has diminished

:43:49. > :43:56.little sorry for our promise to this summer? Didn't you? -- for our Prime

:43:56. > :44:02.Minister. Back in August, on the beach, changing into his swimming

:44:02. > :44:07.trunks, behind that Mickey Mouse towel, captured on camera 's,

:44:07. > :44:11.unflattering pictures spread across the national press conference, I

:44:11. > :44:18.have in there, I know what it's like. But when Yvette saw the

:44:18. > :44:22.pictures, she said, rather pointedly, she said that for a

:44:23. > :44:28.46-year-old man, David Cameron looked rather slim. Slim! Who on

:44:28. > :44:40.earth can she have been comparing him to? ! I just thought, for a

:44:40. > :44:49.prime minister, it was a surprisingly small towel. But

:44:49. > :44:52.conference, let us all agree, after the last three years, the sooner

:44:52. > :45:04.David Cameron throws in the towel, the better. Conference...

:45:04. > :45:13.Conference, we all remember, as Margaret has just said, what David

:45:14. > :45:17.Cameron, George Osborne said on the economy three years ago - they

:45:17. > :45:22.claimed in 2010 Baxter tax rises and deeper spending cuts would secure

:45:22. > :45:27.the economic recovery and make it stronger. They said their plan would

:45:27. > :45:30.make people better off and get the deficit down. On every test they set

:45:30. > :45:35.themselves, the Prime Minister and Chancellor have failed. They did not

:45:36. > :45:40.secure the recovery, they choked it off, as we want, and a flat lined

:45:41. > :45:46.our economy for three wasted and damaging years. They claimed living

:45:46. > :45:49.standards would rise, but they have fallen year-on-year. They made the

:45:49. > :45:53.number one test of their economic credibility keeping the AAA credit

:45:54. > :45:59.rating, and our country has been downgraded not once but twice. They

:45:59. > :46:07.promise to balance the books by 2015, but the deficit is now said to

:46:07. > :46:13.be over £90 billion. And now, after three wasted years, David Cameron

:46:13. > :46:17.and George Osborne try to claim their plan has worked. Worked! It we

:46:17. > :46:23.have worked for a privileged few at the top, but for the million young

:46:23. > :46:24.people trapped out of work, that Tory plan has not worked at all.

:46:25. > :46:33.For... For millions... For millions of

:46:33. > :46:38.ordinary families worried about how to make ends meet, when wages are

:46:38. > :46:41.falling and prices are rising, for the young couples struggling to get

:46:41. > :46:47.on the housing ladder because the chronic shortage of homes is forcing

:46:47. > :46:51.up prices, for ordinary working families, the aspirational majority

:46:51. > :46:56.who work hard, pay their taxes, who wants to get on and not just get by,

:46:56. > :47:00.but who are working harder for less as the cost of living keeps on

:47:00. > :47:07.rising, this Tory plan is not working. And for the 400,000

:47:08. > :47:11.disabled adults forced to pay the government's perverse and deeply

:47:11. > :47:15.unfair bedroom tax, this Tory plan has failed them absolutely. And that

:47:15. > :47:19.is why, in our first budget, the has failed them absolutely. And that

:47:19. > :47:23.next Labour government will repeal the bedroom tax.

:47:23. > :47:39.So when David Cameron and George Osborne say that everything in the

:47:39. > :47:47.economy is down to them, let us remind them prices rising faster

:47:47. > :47:51.than wages for 38 of the 39 months since David Cameron went into

:47:51. > :47:55.Downing Street, three years of flat-lining, the slowest recovery

:47:55. > :47:59.for over 100 years, 1 million young people out of work, welfare spending

:48:00. > :48:05.rising, more borrowing to pay for their economic failure. That is

:48:05. > :48:11.their economic record, and we will not let them forget it. I say to

:48:11. > :48:15.David Cameron and George Osborne, you cannot just airbrush away three

:48:15. > :48:20.wasted years, you cannot just airbrush away your economic failure.

:48:20. > :48:31.And, conference, as for their claim that we are all in this together, we

:48:31. > :48:36.don't hear that line much anymore. And with the deficit still high and

:48:36. > :48:42.ordinary families still struggling with the cost of living crisis, how

:48:42. > :48:46.can it be right or fair for David Cameron and George Osborne to have

:48:46. > :48:55.chosen this year to give the richest people in our country earning over

:48:55. > :49:01.£150,000 a £3 billion tax cut? Isn't it is now clear whose side David

:49:01. > :49:05.Cameron and jaws bottom -- George Osborne are really on? Cutting taxes

:49:05. > :49:08.for hedge funds, trying to bribe working people to give up

:49:08. > :49:12.for hedge funds, trying to bribe rights, country suppers at Chequers

:49:12. > :49:17.for Tory party fundraisers, protecting the privileges of the few

:49:17. > :49:21.while the many work hard and do not see the benefit. For all their claim

:49:21. > :49:27.to be modernisers, with Cameron and Osborne, it has not been, who wants

:49:27. > :49:29.to be a millionaire? It is who wants to help a millionaire. It is not

:49:29. > :49:34.to be a millionaire? It is who wants phone a friend, it is cut taxes for

:49:34. > :49:38.your friend. It is not 50-50, it is winner takes all. Conference, isn't

:49:38. > :49:45.it about time they asked the audience? Because... Because we...

:49:45. > :49:53.Because we know the truth. We know the truth. After the last three

:49:53. > :49:59.years, David Cameron and George Osborne, for the few not the many,

:49:59. > :50:04.more of the same, from the same old stories. And, conference, after

:50:04. > :50:10.three years of stagnation, it is good news our economy has started to

:50:10. > :50:14.finally started to grow again. It was going three years ago before

:50:14. > :50:18.they choked it. That it was growing. So don't listen to the Tory

:50:18. > :50:23.propaganda that says that Labour does not want the economy to grow,

:50:23. > :50:27.what nonsense! Because when the economy was in recession, we know

:50:27. > :50:30.which communities lose out. When unemployment becomes entrenched, we

:50:30. > :50:35.know which constituencies suffer most. When the cost of living is

:50:35. > :50:42.rising, we know which families are hardest hit. And we know that three

:50:42. > :50:47.years of flat-lining, far longer than any of us expected, has caused

:50:47. > :50:51.long-term damage. Businesses bankrupt, investment in capacity

:50:51. > :50:56.lost, long-term unemployment entrenched. And now even as growth

:50:56. > :51:00.finally returns, with prices still rising faster than wages, with

:51:00. > :51:04.business investment still weak, with unemployment still rising in half

:51:04. > :51:11.the country, with bank lending still falling to businesses, we cannot be

:51:11. > :51:16.satisfied. For millions of people in our country, this is no recovery at

:51:16. > :51:19.all. And when, around the world, emerging markets are jittery, China

:51:19. > :51:24.all. And when, around the world, is slowing, oil prices are rising,

:51:24. > :51:28.the eurozone is still stuck with chronic low growth, I say, this is

:51:28. > :51:33.no time for complacency, to sit back with fingers crossed. That is why we

:51:33. > :51:37.no time for complacency, to sit back have urged George Osborne to act to

:51:37. > :51:43.secure a strong recovery, because what Britain needs now is strong

:51:43. > :51:47.enough growth to catch up all that lost ground and so that everyone can

:51:47. > :51:51.feel the benefit, and not the view. Not a recovery that just works. ,

:51:51. > :51:56.not early hikes in interest rates and mortgage rates as a weak British

:51:56. > :52:00.economy hits the inflationary buffers, but a recovery that works

:52:00. > :52:08.for all and is built to last. And that is why, along with voices from

:52:08. > :52:11.bankrupt England and the IMF, we are right to be concerned that the

:52:11. > :52:16.government is boosting housing demand. The taxpayer mortgage

:52:16. > :52:22.guarantee on houses up to £600,000 in value while doing nothing about

:52:22. > :52:29.the supply of housing which has fallen to its lowest level since the

:52:29. > :52:36.1920s. George, its basic economic, its basic economic. If you push up

:52:36. > :52:40.housing demand and do nothing to boost supply, prices go up and up,

:52:40. > :52:47.and the end result is that the very people you should be helping - young

:52:47. > :52:57.first-time buyers, will find it even harder to get on the housing ladder.

:52:57. > :53:00.Conference, I have to ask, when we need to secure stronger growth and

:53:00. > :53:04.invest for the long-term, how can it be right George Osborne to be

:53:04. > :53:10.planning to cut infrastructure investment in 2015? That is why we

:53:10. > :53:16.have consistently said, why the IMF have said, bring forward £10 billion

:53:16. > :53:22.of infrastructure investment now. Build 400,000 affordable homes over

:53:22. > :53:25.the next two years, create 500,000 jobs and thousands of

:53:25. > :53:27.apprenticeships. That is the way to secure an economy that works for all

:53:27. > :53:39.and is built to last. But, conference, we cannot rely on

:53:39. > :53:45.George Osborne to do the right thing. And with George Osborne doing

:53:46. > :53:50.the wrong things, we stand to inherit a very difficult situation.

:53:50. > :53:56.After three wasted years of lost growth, far from balancing the

:53:56. > :54:01.books, in 2015, there is now set to be a deficit of over £90 billion.

:54:01. > :54:06.And I need to be straight with this conference and with the country

:54:06. > :54:10.about what that means. The Government's day-to-day spending

:54:10. > :54:13.totals in 2015-16 will be our starting point. Any changes for

:54:13. > :54:18.current spending plans will need to be fully funded and send out an

:54:18. > :54:21.advanced in our manifesto. There will be no more borrowing for

:54:21. > :54:24.day-to-day spending, we will set out to fiscal rules to balance the

:54:24. > :54:29.current budget and to get the national debt on a downward path. Of

:54:29. > :54:33.course, Labour will make different choices, we will combine iron

:54:33. > :54:36.discipline on spending control with a fairer approach to deficit

:54:36. > :54:42.reduction. And with our 0-based review, a review of every £1 spent

:54:42. > :54:45.by Government from the bottom-up, Rachel Reeves and my Shadow Cabinet

:54:46. > :54:51.colleagues have begun the work of identifying savings so we can switch

:54:52. > :54:53.to Labour's priorities. But we will not be able to reverse all the

:54:53. > :54:56.to Labour's priorities. But we will spending cuts and tax rises that the

:54:56. > :54:59.Tories have pushed through. We will have to govern with less money

:54:59. > :55:03.around. The next Labour government would have to make cuts to, because

:55:03. > :55:08.while jobs and growth are vital to get the deficit down, they are not

:55:08. > :55:13.going to be able to magic away a £90 billion deficit at a stroke.

:55:13. > :55:17.Delivering our Labour goals will be harder than at any time than we can

:55:17. > :55:22.member, but it can be done - if we get people back to work, strengthen

:55:22. > :55:25.the economy, cut out waste, focus relentlessly on our priorities, and

:55:25. > :55:30.make sure difficult choices are not ducked but are rooted in our values,

:55:30. > :55:34.fairness and common sense. So, conference, at a time in the public

:55:34. > :55:37.services that pensioners rely on under such pressure, we cannot

:55:37. > :55:39.continue paying the winter fuel allowance to the richest 5% of

:55:40. > :55:44.pensioners. We will not be able to allowance to the richest 5% of

:55:44. > :55:47.reverse the Government's cuts to child benefit for the highest

:55:47. > :55:48.earners. We will keep the benefit stab at major problem reflects

:55:48. > :55:54.housing costs. We will have to have stab at major problem reflects

:55:54. > :55:58.a cap on structural social security. Over the long term, as our

:55:58. > :56:02.population ages, there will need to be increases in the retirement age.

:56:02. > :56:08.But a fairer approach to deficit reduction means we will also crack

:56:08. > :56:12.down on tax avoidance, scrap the shares schemes, and reverse the tax

:56:12. > :56:16.cut for hedge funds, and we will insist that all the proceeds from

:56:16. > :56:22.the sale of our stakes in Lloyds and RBS are used not for a one-off

:56:22. > :56:27.pre-election tax giveaway, but every penny of profit used to repay the

:56:27. > :56:28.national debt. Conference, that is fiscal responsibility in the

:56:28. > :56:40.national interest. And with our 0-based reviews, we

:56:40. > :56:46.will make different choices, so we will ask, can we improve care and

:56:46. > :56:49.save money, as Andy Burnham has proposed, by pooling Health and

:56:49. > :56:54.Social Care Act a single service with a single budget and joint

:56:54. > :56:58.management? And, conference, we will repeal the damaging and costly Tory

:56:58. > :57:08.privatisation of our National Health Service.

:57:08. > :57:15.And we will... We will ask, does it really makes sense to have separate

:57:15. > :57:19.costly management and bureaucracy. Many separate governments

:57:19. > :57:23.departments, agencies, fire services and police forces? -- for so many.

:57:23. > :57:26.We will not pay for new free schools and police forces? -- for so many.

:57:26. > :57:30.in areas where there are extra school places well parents in other

:57:30. > :57:36.areas are struggling to get their children into a local school.

:57:36. > :57:44.And on infrastructure, we need more long-term investment. And we will

:57:44. > :57:47.assess the case for capital investment as we prepare our

:57:47. > :57:53.manifesto, but we must also set the right priorities and get value for

:57:53. > :57:56.money. Conference, we support investment in better transport links

:57:56. > :58:03.for the future. We continue to back the idea of a new North-south rail

:58:03. > :58:05.link, but under this government, the High Speed Two project has been

:58:05. > :58:08.totally mismanaged, and the High Speed Two project has been

:58:08. > :58:14.have shot up to £50 billion. David High Speed Two project has been

:58:14. > :58:18.Cameron and George Osborne have made clear that they will go full is team

:58:18. > :58:22.ahead with this project, no matter how much the costs spiral up and up.

:58:22. > :58:28.They seem willing to put their own pride and urbanity above best value

:58:28. > :58:32.for the taxpayer. Maria Eagle and I are clear that we will not take this

:58:32. > :58:37.irresponsible approach. Let us be clear, in tough times, when there is

:58:37. > :58:42.less money around and a big deficits to get down, there will be no blank

:58:42. > :58:46.cheque from me as a Labour Chancellor for this project or any

:58:46. > :58:51.other project, because the question is not just whether a new high-speed

:58:51. > :58:57.line is a good idea or a bad idea, but whether it is the best way to

:58:57. > :59:04.spend £50 billion for the future of our country.

:59:04. > :59:10.Conference, in tough times, it even more important that all our

:59:10. > :59:13.policies and commitments are properly costed and funded. The

:59:13. > :59:17.policies and commitments are British people rightly wants to know

:59:17. > :59:21.that the sums add up, so we will go one step further and ask the

:59:21. > :59:25.independent Office for Budget Responsibility, the watchdog set up

:59:25. > :59:30.by this government, to independently audited the costings of every single

:59:30. > :59:35.individual spending and tax measure in Labour's manifesto at the next

:59:35. > :59:39.election. This is the first time a Shadow Chancellor, the first time

:59:39. > :59:44.any political party has ever said he wants this kind of independent

:59:44. > :59:48.audit. It is a radical change from what has gone before, but it is the

:59:48. > :59:50.right thing to do to help restore trust in politics, and that is why

:59:50. > :00:03.we are going to do it. Conference, you know we need

:00:03. > :00:09.economic responsibility and fiscal rigour. And we can't write all the

:00:09. > :00:11.details of our first budget today, where we don't know the estate of

:00:11. > :00:14.the economy and how bad the where we don't know the estate of

:00:14. > :00:19.finances are going to be that we will inherit. But after three wasted

:00:19. > :00:24.years of Tory failure, people are rightly now asking, what will Labour

:00:24. > :00:29.do differently? And now, with 19 months to go to the election, this

:00:29. > :00:33.week, today and tomorrow and in the coming days is the right time to set

:00:33. > :00:38.out Labour's alternatives. Conference, as Liam Byrne has said,

:00:38. > :00:42.Labour would stand aside without almost 1 million young people out of

:00:42. > :00:45.work and when long-term unemployment is so high. We know can't make our

:00:45. > :00:48.comic grow more strongly, get the cost of welfare down and deal with

:00:48. > :01:14.the deficit if we are squandering the talents of so many. We will fund

:01:14. > :01:18.this by repeating the tax on bank bonuses and restricting pensions tax

:01:18. > :01:22.relief for the very highest earners to the same rate as the average

:01:22. > :01:27.taxpayer. We will work within ploy is to make sure there will be a paid

:01:27. > :01:31.job for all young people out of work for more than 12 months and adults

:01:31. > :01:37.out of work for two years or more, which people will have to take or

:01:37. > :01:40.lose benefits. That is welfare reform that works. That is what we

:01:40. > :01:45.mean by matching rights with responsibilities, eating young

:01:45. > :01:49.people into work and ending the scourge of long-term unemployment

:01:49. > :01:55.once and for all. -- getting young people into work. Conference, when

:01:55. > :02:00.people get into work they should always be better off, it should

:02:00. > :02:05.always pay more to be in work than on benefits so we must do more to

:02:05. > :02:09.make work pay. The national minimum wage is one of our proudest

:02:09. > :02:13.achievements. It was opposed by the Tories every step of the way, even

:02:13. > :02:19.now some Conservatives say the minimum wage should be suspended.

:02:19. > :02:24.And its value has fallen by 5% in real terms since 2010. So we must

:02:24. > :02:26.now fight to protect and strengthen the national minimum wage,

:02:26. > :02:33.increasing the fine for those who exploit workers, strengthening it

:02:33. > :02:37.and restoring its value, catching up the ground lost over the last three

:02:37. > :02:48.years and encouraging employers to go further and pay the minimum --

:02:48. > :02:52.living wage. And conference, to move Labour on from the past, to put it

:02:52. > :02:56.where it should always be, on the side of working people, we will

:02:56. > :03:02.introduce a new 10p starting rate of tax will stop a tax cut for 25

:03:02. > :03:13.million hard-working people on minimum and lower incomes. And we

:03:13. > :03:21.will pay for it by introducing a mansion tax on property is worth

:03:21. > :03:25.over £2 million. -- properties. Introduced in a fair way, so that

:03:25. > :03:29.foreign investors who buy a property in London to make a profit will

:03:29. > :03:42.finally make a proper tax contribution to our country. But the

:03:42. > :03:45.many families, high childcare costs are a real problem, it can mean it

:03:45. > :03:49.many families, high childcare costs doesn't even add up to go to work.

:03:49. > :03:55.Childcare is a vital part of our doesn't even add up to go to work.

:03:55. > :03:58.economic infrastructure. That alongside family support and

:03:58. > :04:01.flexible working should give parents the choice to stay at home with

:04:01. > :04:03.their children when they are very small, and balance work and

:04:03. > :04:09.their children when they are very as they grow older. To make work pay

:04:09. > :04:13.for families, we must act. Stephen Twigg said that yesterday how we

:04:13. > :04:20.will guarantee childcare available for all primary school children from

:04:20. > :04:25.8am until 6pm. And today, I want to go further. As we need to do more

:04:25. > :04:31.for families with nursery age children, too. Conference, here is

:04:31. > :04:36.how we can. After the financial crisis, it is right that the banks

:04:36. > :04:41.make a greater contribution. In the last financial year, the banks made

:04:41. > :04:46.a staggering £2.7 billion less in overall tax than in 2010. Over the

:04:46. > :04:52.last two years, the government 's bank levy has raised 1.6 billion

:04:52. > :04:55.less than even they said it would. At a time when resources are tight

:04:55. > :05:00.and families are under pressure, that's not right, and we will act.

:05:00. > :05:04.The next Labour government will increase the bag levy rate to raise

:05:04. > :05:08.an extra £800 million and we will use the money for families where all

:05:08. > :05:11.parents want to work and are in work, to increase free childcare for

:05:11. > :05:28.three-year-olds and four-year-olds work, to increase free childcare for

:05:28. > :05:32.from 15 hours to 25 hours. For parents in work, free childcare for

:05:32. > :05:39.three-year-olds and four-year-olds from 15 to 25 hours a week, for the

:05:39. > :05:42.first time, parents able to work part time without having to worry at

:05:42. > :05:47.all about the cost of childcare, that is what we mean by making work

:05:47. > :05:52.pay. That's what we mean by tackling the cost of living crisis, that is a

:05:52. > :06:01.radical transformation in the provision of childcare in our

:06:01. > :06:05.country. And conference, we need a radical transformation in our

:06:05. > :06:10.economy. Because the countries that radical transformation in our

:06:10. > :06:21.succeed now are those that exploit the huge opportunities that digital

:06:21. > :06:23.media and education, medical technology are coming, will Britain

:06:23. > :06:27.seize this opportunity or squander it? As we and

:06:27. > :06:31.seize this opportunity or squander know there is no future in trying to

:06:31. > :06:36.undercut the merging market economies like India, China and

:06:36. > :06:40.Brazil on wages and cost. That's why so many companies look at this

:06:40. > :06:49.government 's record on industrial policy with increasing dismay. The

:06:49. > :06:53.Heseltine growth review muted, the British bank a damp squib,

:06:53. > :06:54.apprenticeships for young people actually falling. Energy policy in

:06:54. > :07:02.chaos. On infrastructure, dither, actually falling. Energy policy in

:07:02. > :07:06.delay and inaction. We cannot succeed with this race to the

:07:06. > :07:10.bottom, with laissez faire deregulation and trickle-down

:07:10. > :07:13.economic. Because it's NRO and defeatist vision, it is doomed to

:07:14. > :07:19.fail and we have seen it fail before. Just look at the British car

:07:19. > :07:24.industry in the 70s and 80s, trying to compete on cost, cutting back on

:07:24. > :07:28.innovation, quality and skills, played by terrible industrial

:07:28. > :07:31.relations. And now look at the Renaissance in Jaguar Land Rover,

:07:31. > :07:35.creating thousands more jobs, exporting around the world, not by

:07:35. > :07:40.cutting corners but waste of world-class, long-term investment in

:07:40. > :07:45.innovation, skills and supply chains. We are determined to learn

:07:45. > :07:53.from that success and that is why we can announce executive director of

:07:53. > :07:57.Land Rover will now lead a review for us on how we can help strengthen

:07:57. > :08:03.our supply chains and deliver the skills and innovation Britain needs

:08:03. > :08:07.to succeed. Following the review on short-term is, we will change

:08:07. > :08:12.takeover rules and corporate incentives and reform taxes to stop

:08:12. > :08:16.asset stripping in the short-term and instead, support long-term

:08:16. > :08:19.investment. And why not use any revenues from the planned increase

:08:19. > :08:25.in the license fees for the mobile phone spectrum, expected to be over

:08:25. > :08:29.£1 billion in the next Parliament, to capitalise the British investment

:08:29. > :08:34.bank so that region by region, we can get small businesses, the

:08:34. > :08:43.finance they need to grow and create jobs. Conference, we will set up an

:08:43. > :08:46.independent infrastructure commission has recommended by the

:08:46. > :08:52.chair of the Olympic delivery authority, to end either and delay

:08:52. > :08:56.in infrastructure planning. We will legislate for us to get free banking

:08:56. > :08:59.code of conduct and demand real reform and cultural change from the

:08:59. > :09:05.banks. We will legislate for a decarbonisation, and unlock billions

:09:05. > :09:10.of pounds of investment in renewables, nuclear, clean coal

:09:10. > :09:15.technology and we will give the green investment bank borrowing

:09:15. > :09:28.powers it needs to do it is job. That is what the next Labour

:09:28. > :09:33.government will do. So conference, even in difficult times, even as we

:09:33. > :09:37.face a huge deficit, we will rise to the challenge. We will build an

:09:37. > :09:43.economy that works for the many and not just a few at the top. And we

:09:43. > :09:46.know it can be done. Because we have done it before. Conference, we are

:09:46. > :09:53.know it can be done. Because we have not the first Labour generation to

:09:53. > :09:56.face a huge deficit and the need for spending restraint and a country

:09:56. > :10:00.crying out the change. We are not the first generation to be awed by

:10:00. > :10:04.the scale of what needs to be done, to transform our country. As we

:10:04. > :10:11.prepare for the 20 15th general election, to be held in the 70th

:10:11. > :10:15.anniversary year of the Second World War, let us take inspiration from

:10:15. > :10:25.the great reforming Labour government of 1945. Conference, that

:10:26. > :10:36.past Labour generation faced huge economic and fiscal challenges. But

:10:36. > :10:39.they did not flinch. And they built lasting change. New homes for

:10:39. > :10:45.returning heroes, universal welfare state and national health of which

:10:45. > :10:58.65 years on is still weak and four British values, for all and not just

:10:58. > :11:03.a privilege few. -- privileged few. So conference, let us not be the

:11:03. > :11:09.a privilege few. -- privileged few. Labour generation that fringed in

:11:09. > :11:12.the face of hardship. Let us show we will not duck the great challenges

:11:13. > :11:19.we are going to face on spending and the deficit. And let us build an

:11:19. > :11:22.economy that works for all working families, in every part of our

:11:22. > :11:27.country. And in the coming weeks and months, when people ask what would a

:11:27. > :11:30.Labour government do? Let's go out and tell them. Jobs for young people

:11:30. > :11:34.guaranteed. Expanding free childcare, a British investment

:11:34. > :11:42.bank, infrastructure delivered, green investment unlock, the deficit

:11:42. > :11:47.down fairly, tax cuts for millions, not the millionaires. Reforming our

:11:47. > :11:53.banks, the NHS saved, tackling tax avoidance, rail fares capped, the

:11:53. > :11:57.bedroom tax scrapped, building the homes we need. That is what a Labour

:11:57. > :11:59.government could do. Let's come together, go out there and make it

:11:59. > :12:10.happen. Thank you, conference. They get to their feet as Ed Balls

:12:10. > :12:16.finishes his address as Shadow Chancellor. He spoke for just over

:12:16. > :12:23.half an hour. The new story in it, he started to distance himself from

:12:23. > :12:25.HS2, the rail line from London to Birmingham, originally a Labour idea

:12:25. > :12:28.picked up by the Coalition Government but he seems to be

:12:28. > :12:34.worried about the escalating cost of it. He says there is no blank cheque

:12:34. > :12:37.for it and he wants to review it along with all the other

:12:38. > :12:42.infrastructure projects he might get involved in. He also said he wanted

:12:42. > :12:47.the Office for Budget Responsibility to look at his sons and spending

:12:47. > :12:53.plans, to get an endorsement, to get them independently audited. He took

:12:53. > :12:57.awhile to get the economy, even though he is Shadow Chancellor, he

:12:57. > :13:00.spent the first pages of his speech sounding more like the Labour

:13:00. > :13:05.leader, but I'm sure there is nothing in that. He promised tough

:13:05. > :13:12.fiscal constraints, he wants a compulsory jobs guarantee. He will

:13:12. > :13:16.pay for that with a tax on bankers bonuses, takeaway pension relief

:13:16. > :13:20.from the highest earners, so everybody gets it at the basic rate

:13:20. > :13:23.of tax. He wants to encourage a living wage and he wants up a levy

:13:23. > :13:28.of tax. He wants to encourage a to be able to pay for more child

:13:28. > :13:34.care. These are the highlights of his speech. We are joined by Sajid

:13:34. > :13:42.Javid to get some reaction to that. Would you make of that? I'm made of

:13:42. > :13:49.that that he is showing a lack of confidence. The conservative

:13:49. > :13:52.government is embarking on a massive £50 billion investment in

:13:52. > :13:57.infrastructure, which tells us that they know that the government as to

:13:57. > :14:04.invest in infrastructure in order to get the economy ticking again. And

:14:04. > :14:09.yet what he is saying is that he's not talking about that, talks about

:14:09. > :14:15.that in a small way, what he's emphasising is he will raise taxes

:14:15. > :14:19.to pay for childcare and to pay for jobs guarantees. But he is losing is

:14:19. > :14:23.the big picture, which the Tory government has finally got, which is

:14:23. > :14:28.the only way you're going to get the revenue you need to bring down the

:14:28. > :14:30.deficit is to invest in infrastructure, stimulate the

:14:30. > :14:36.private sector and then your tax revenues will flow. He's suggesting

:14:36. > :14:40.that HS2 may not be the most productive way of doing that. He

:14:40. > :14:41.wants a rail line to the North but his wandering why it is so

:14:41. > :14:47.expensive. But here you have his wandering why it is so

:14:47. > :14:51.political consensus between all the parties, that £50 billion is needed

:14:51. > :14:58.to kick-start something, in this case for HS2. We have agreement, so

:14:58. > :15:03.the salami slicing around little bits per childcare here and there,

:15:03. > :15:10.that is not what it is about. What did you make of it? Clearly he wants

:15:10. > :15:13.to criticise the Tories further economic policy and he talks about

:15:13. > :15:18.these wasted years of stagnation. What is the real case is that after

:15:18. > :15:23.a global financial crisis, we were never going to recover properly.

:15:24. > :15:29.There has been plenty of analysis, and they take a long time to recover

:15:30. > :15:34.from. The matter who was in charge, we would have years of negative

:15:34. > :15:39.growth and an economy that flat lined -- no matter who was in

:15:39. > :15:47.charge. What is interesting is the economy starting to bloom now. Boom?

:15:47. > :15:57.Many economists are now predicting 3% growth. The profession always

:15:57. > :16:01.gets the amplitude wrong, and it is not until the data comes out

:16:01. > :16:05.properly years later that we realise the down periods were a lot more

:16:05. > :16:09.than and the other periods were a lot more of. So that is what I

:16:09. > :16:14.think, he has missed that. Let me bring in Sajid Javid, the fact is

:16:14. > :16:19.that the economy did not go for three years. We inherited an economy

:16:19. > :16:23.that had just experienced the mother of all recessions, the deepest

:16:23. > :16:27.recession we had seen in peacetime. There was a worldwide financial

:16:27. > :16:33.crash. That did not mean we have to have the biggest deficit of any

:16:33. > :16:36.industrialised country. But our financial services were bigger, so

:16:37. > :16:39.it was going to hit us more. That is because we took our eye off the

:16:40. > :16:43.ball, and when the alarm bells were ringing, no one was listening

:16:43. > :16:50.because we changed the regulatory system. You never objected. With the

:16:50. > :16:54.encouragement of the Conservative Party. We voted against those

:16:54. > :16:58.changes, and Peter Lilley said it would be a field day. It is and

:16:58. > :17:06.groups, and he has been proven right. But you were urging for less

:17:06. > :17:09.regulation. What was important, what I took away from Ed Balls' speech

:17:09. > :17:13.regulation. What was important, what just now is that, first of all,

:17:13. > :17:17.let's look at the words he did not use. He did not say plan be, too far

:17:17. > :17:22.too fast, he did not say triple dip, recession made in Downing

:17:22. > :17:25.Street. Why? Because he knows he has lost the economic argument. The

:17:25. > :17:29.economy is recovering, I would not say it is booming but it is turning

:17:29. > :17:38.the corner. There are still a lot of work to do, and Ed Balls knows that.

:17:39. > :17:40.Now he has not got any policies, other than what he has been talking

:17:40. > :17:42.Now he has not got any policies, about. You would have thought he

:17:42. > :17:45.would have learned the lesson, but it is about more spending and debt.

:17:45. > :17:49.By 2015, will people be worse off or better off than 2010? I hope they

:17:49. > :17:54.will be better off. They are not now. That is our target, to make

:17:54. > :17:57.sure that everyone feels the benefits of economic recovery, and

:17:57. > :18:01.if we are going to do that we have to be serious about tackling our

:18:01. > :18:06.record budget deficit. We have to keep interest rates low and major

:18:06. > :18:10.our economy keeps generating jobs. It is generating jobs today faster

:18:10. > :18:13.than any other country in the G7. There are more people employed today

:18:13. > :18:19.in Britain than at any other time in our history. Excuse me, the Governor

:18:19. > :18:22.of the Bank of England has made it clear you cannot have a substantial

:18:22. > :18:25.fall in unemployment and low interest rates, it is one or the

:18:26. > :18:33.other, what do you want going into 2015, unemployment below 7% or

:18:33. > :18:37.interest rates at 0.5%? We are going to keep focusing on bringing

:18:37. > :18:40.unemployment is down, and the claimant level is coming down. If

:18:40. > :18:46.you look at the forecasts of the major bodies, the major think tank

:18:46. > :18:51.said so forth, they are showing increasing economic growth. I

:18:51. > :18:53.understand that, so in return for unemployment going below 7%,

:18:53. > :18:56.understand that, so in return for although I am not sure it will by

:18:56. > :19:01.2015, although it could, under what you're saying, you are happy to see

:19:01. > :19:05.interest rates rise? That is what the governor says. I think if we

:19:05. > :19:08.stick to our economic policy, which is bringing back confidence, keeping

:19:08. > :19:13.stick to our economic policy, which interest rates low, keeping mortgage

:19:13. > :19:16.rates low, and if the Bank of England decides to do that, it is up

:19:16. > :19:20.to them. With this forward guidance, the governor has told us

:19:21. > :19:25.that if unemployment falls below 7%, he will take it as a sign that the

:19:25. > :19:28.economy is under way and interest rates will have to rise. You

:19:28. > :19:36.comfortable to go into the next election rising interest rates? I

:19:36. > :19:40.trust his judgment. That is not the answer to my question. You are

:19:40. > :19:43.comfortable with rising interest rates? Once the economy starts to

:19:43. > :19:49.recover, and right now we're just the corner, and we have to keep

:19:49. > :19:53.working, it is not a judgment for the government to make. What we have

:19:53. > :19:58.got to do is keep focusing on the deficit, keep reducing taxes on

:19:58. > :20:01.business to generate jobs. Coming back to living standards, at the

:20:01. > :20:05.moment they are substantially below 2010, when you came into power.

:20:05. > :20:10.Prices have consistently risen higher than wages in the public and

:20:10. > :20:14.private sectors. Can I get it clear, are you telling us that that will no

:20:14. > :20:18.longer be the case by 2015, that he will fight the next election with

:20:18. > :20:22.living standards higher than 2010? What I am saying is that we will

:20:22. > :20:23.keep working hard to help people with their living standards and the

:20:23. > :20:27.keep working hard to help people best way to do that is the root

:20:27. > :20:32.page, full-time employment. The fact that the economy is generating jobs

:20:32. > :20:38.faster than anyone else in the G7 is a good thing. Will people be better

:20:38. > :20:43.off or not by 2015? I hope so, but I cannot judge the future. Will you

:20:43. > :20:51.let the office for budget responsible do to an independent

:20:51. > :20:53.audit on Mr Balls' manifesto policies? -- the office of budget

:20:53. > :21:01.responsible to. We created this office in the first

:21:01. > :21:04.place because Gordon Brown fiddled the figures whenever he felt like

:21:04. > :21:12.it, so we have this independent office... That would politicise it.

:21:12. > :21:15.You will not allow it? It would require primary legislation, so it

:21:15. > :21:19.is high in the sky to even think about it. That is not what the Tory

:21:20. > :21:24.chairman of the banking committee says. It would require primary

:21:24. > :21:26.legislation, and Ed Balls has used this Ahmed is a bit of a stunt to

:21:26. > :21:30.take us away from the real argument, this Ahmed is a bit of a stunt to

:21:30. > :21:36.which is an unfunded spending commitments. -- this argument. Thank

:21:36. > :21:41.you for your figures. These are Treasury figures that I have

:21:41. > :21:45.collected. Let's go now, fresh from the speech, to the Shadow Treasury

:21:45. > :21:48.minister, Chris Leslie. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Ed Balls

:21:48. > :21:51.minister, Chris Leslie. Welcome to made it clear that he will stick to

:21:51. > :21:57.the existing coalition spending plans if he is in power for 2015-16,

:21:57. > :22:00.but that is only the first year of any future Labour government, and it

:22:00. > :22:07.does not include capital spending, so you could unleash, put the taps

:22:07. > :22:18.on for 2016? You have only committed to one year, correct? ? We had their

:22:18. > :22:21.Spending Review in 2015-16 in the summer, that one year, and we are

:22:21. > :22:24.only able to talk about that starting point in the context of the

:22:24. > :22:39.announcements that the Chancellor has made. Sadly, that is the bases

:22:40. > :22:44.we are starting from the -- there, even though we have this deficit.

:22:44. > :22:47.You could tell us what your pistol rules would be for the subsequent

:22:47. > :22:52.years, because at the moment we have no idea, and you may be very much by

:22:52. > :22:57.stopping in year one, but you could go back to your profligate ways in

:22:57. > :23:01.years two, three and four. Well, no, look, I think it is a commitment

:23:01. > :23:05.that is quite important for opposition to make. People want to

:23:05. > :23:10.know how we would approach fiscal policy, and I think the fact that we

:23:10. > :23:15.are recognising that we are still going to have a legacy of the

:23:15. > :23:18.deficits despite all the promises that George Osborne made, that it

:23:18. > :23:22.would balance the books, that deficit is still going to be very

:23:22. > :23:26.considerable indeed, and therefore it is only the responsible thing to

:23:26. > :23:30.say to the public, you know, we cannot magic that away, we will have

:23:30. > :23:34.to use it as a starting point, the plans that they have sat out. If

:23:34. > :23:39.Sajid Javid and others are going to be decked for future years, we will

:23:39. > :23:44.look at that at that point. -- going to project. Let me ask you a couple

:23:44. > :23:50.of details, very important details on mansion tax - on houses worth

:23:50. > :23:54.more than £2 million, will that mansion tax be on the value above £2

:23:54. > :24:00.million, or on the whole value of the house? Well, it will not be

:24:00. > :24:06.hitting anybody with properties below £2 million. I am not asking

:24:06. > :24:11.that. We need to have an approach to the mansion tax that looks at those

:24:11. > :24:18.properties... I understand that. It is only on those amounts. Know,

:24:18. > :24:23.clarify that for me. Let me ask you the question again, it is very

:24:23. > :24:27.important - is it on the value over £2 million, supposing it is £3

:24:27. > :24:32.million, the value of the house, is it on that final £1 million, or

:24:32. > :24:39.visit on the full £3 million? Well, no, the rate of tax would be

:24:39. > :24:43.dependent on the calculation is of the numbers of properties at that

:24:43. > :24:49.point in time worth... Am not asking you the raid. Let me finish, please.

:24:49. > :24:53.I have to finish the sentence to explain it. The Government, for

:24:53. > :24:57.example, have just introduced a new regime called the annual tax on

:24:57. > :25:01.envelope dwellings for £2 million and above, where they are owned by

:25:01. > :25:04.companies. The Government, the Treasury have all the methodology

:25:04. > :25:10.for dealing with high-value properties of £2 million and above,

:25:10. > :25:15.the question is, why would they extended... The question is, no, Mr

:25:15. > :25:20.Leslie, the question is quite simple, and you have yet to answer

:25:20. > :25:24.it! Let me try one more time. If we look at a house that is valued at £3

:25:24. > :25:28.million, above the £2 million that you have said will be where the

:25:28. > :25:32.mansion tax kicks in, will be you have said will be where the

:25:32. > :25:37.mansion tax, whatever level it is, will it fall just on the incremental

:25:37. > :25:42.1 million, or will it fall on the full 3 million? Well, obviously, on

:25:42. > :25:43.the incremental, because properties below £2 million will not be

:25:43. > :25:47.affected by this. They will not be below £2 million will not be

:25:47. > :25:52.classified as mansions. The Liberal Democrats came up with a proposal

:25:52. > :25:56.that they think around £2 million can be raised from this, so it is

:25:56. > :26:00.not just something that is the preserve of the Labour Party. You

:26:00. > :26:08.have not and my question, that is fine, that is your privilege. No,

:26:08. > :26:11.you do not like the answer. No, I do not understand, because you have not

:26:11. > :26:17.and said on that distinction. How big will the bankers' levy have to

:26:17. > :26:23.be to raise the extra 800 million? Well, the bank levy was supposed to

:26:23. > :26:27.be yielding £2.5 billion from the moment at which the Chancellor

:26:27. > :26:30.designed it in the way that he did. It was unusual, because he set out

:26:30. > :26:35.the amount that he was targeting explicitly, 2.5 billion in every

:26:35. > :26:40.year. Every year in the House of Commons we have had that debate, it

:26:40. > :26:43.raised, I think, 1.8 billion... He has had to increase it. And every

:26:43. > :26:48.raised, I think, 1.8 billion... He year he has failed to get it. How

:26:48. > :26:54.big will you make it? We believe that it needs to be, the methodology

:26:54. > :26:58.needs to be adjusted so we can get the extra £800 million, and we would

:26:59. > :27:04.use that, importantly, to increase the hours of free childcare from

:27:04. > :27:08.15... I know what you are going to do, I understand that. You are going

:27:08. > :27:14.to use the money for that, I just wondered what the rate would be.

:27:14. > :27:17.Finally, briefly, do you take 800 million out of the banks, it is less

:27:17. > :27:23.they will have to lead to small businesses, correct question me I do

:27:23. > :27:29.not accept that. Banks have all sorts of reserves, they have costs,

:27:29. > :27:34.compensation, as they call it, to senior management. They are more

:27:35. > :27:38.than able to deal with the £2.5 billion that George Osborne said

:27:38. > :27:42.they should be paying. Why hasn't he got that amount of them? It is a

:27:42. > :27:47.scandal, the banks are paying less and less tax under this government.

:27:47. > :27:54.All right, we have run out of time. Everyone else is paying more. Oh,

:27:54. > :27:59.still going! Just time to get the answer to the quiz, which film

:27:59. > :28:03.doesn't make Ed Balls cry? I have got no idea, Bambi, he did not cry

:28:03. > :28:06.at Bambi. I do not know why you would cry at the Antiques Roadshow

:28:06. > :28:08.at Bambi. I do not know why you but not at Bambi! What kind

:28:08. > :28:13.at Bambi. I do not know why you person is that?! Anyway, there you

:28:13. > :28:18.go. Thanks to our guests today, you have had to sit through the party

:28:18. > :28:23.conference speech. We have got more of it next week with the Tories!

:28:23. > :28:28.Sorry that we did not renew Adam's mood box, I have heard it is very

:28:28. > :28:31.good. Thanks to all of our guests. The one o'clock news is starting on

:28:31. > :28:38.BBC One, James Landale will be hosting today at conference after

:28:38. > :28:41.Newsnight on BBC Two. And we will be back tomorrow, Jo and I, with not

:28:41. > :28:46.one but two programmes on the Labour back tomorrow, Jo and I, with not

:28:46. > :28:49.conference, what value we give you! From midday, and normal conference

:28:49. > :28:55.Marshall, then a quick break, back at two o'clock for a very important

:28:56. > :28:57.speech for Ed Miliband. Goodbye!