Conference Special

:00:36. > :00:44.Morning, folks. Welcome to yet another week of conference specials.

:00:44. > :00:47.The Tories are in Manchester this year for their annual party shindig.

:00:47. > :00:54.That's the queue for the hottest ticket in town, the Chancellor's

:00:54. > :00:58.speech to conference. Maybe they are all sitting down already! He's

:00:58. > :01:01.speech to conference. Maybe they are expected to take to the stage in

:01:01. > :01:05.about 20 minutes' time, with a tough message for the long term unemployed

:01:05. > :01:09.and a few sweeteners for the hardworking. Everybody loves a hard

:01:09. > :01:11.worker! With all the economic indicators

:01:11. > :01:14.worker! suggesting the economy's on the up,

:01:14. > :01:17.he might even put a smile on his face. But don't hold your breath.

:01:17. > :01:20.We'll be carrying George Osborne's speech live and uninterrupted.

:01:20. > :01:24.His boss is looking happy, down to his shirt sleeves. He's got a tall

:01:24. > :01:28.order ahead of him if wants an outright majority at the next

:01:28. > :01:33.election. We'll be asking, does he stand a chance?

:01:33. > :01:36.He looks like a nice chap but is this man the Conservatives'

:01:36. > :01:41.deadliest enemy ever? We'll be talking pacts with UKIP.

:01:41. > :01:51.And it seems David Cameron doesn't like our Adam's balls.

:01:51. > :01:57.Who has got more balls, you or Mrs Thatcher?

:01:57. > :02:00.All that in the next hour, and with us for the duration is the former

:02:00. > :02:04.Conservative Party chairman, Norman Fowler. -- in the next hour and a

:02:04. > :02:07.half. Welcome. This conference season has been notable for the

:02:07. > :02:10.number of new policies which have been announced. The Liberal

:02:10. > :02:14.Democrats and Labour both set out new ideas which they hope will form

:02:14. > :02:17.part of their campaigns for the next election, and the Conservatives are

:02:17. > :02:21.no different. They're trying to woo voters who want to get on in the

:02:21. > :02:24.game of life. David Cameron wants to encourage marriage, and has made

:02:24. > :02:29.good on his promise to recognise it in the tax system. Married and

:02:29. > :02:32.civilly partnered couples will be able to share some of their unused

:02:32. > :02:37.personal income tax allowance, potentially worth up to £200 a year.

:02:37. > :02:42.The PM also says he wants to help potentially worth up to £200 a year.

:02:42. > :02:45.people buy their own home. So phase two of the Government's Help to Buy

:02:45. > :02:48.scheme will come into effect this week, three months ahead of

:02:48. > :02:53.schedule, offering government loans of up to 20% of a home's value to

:02:53. > :02:56.help people raise a deposit. But for people who are still jobless after

:02:56. > :03:00.two years on the existing work programme, the government's new help

:03:00. > :03:05.to work will mean a tougher regime as a condition for staying on

:03:06. > :03:10.benefits. -- be Government's new Help to Work. One option will be

:03:10. > :03:13.community work placements, like cleaning up litter. This morning the

:03:13. > :03:16.Chancellor, George Osborne, said that the long term unemployed should

:03:16. > :03:24.be taking up the jobs which are being created. And that is why we

:03:24. > :03:29.are saying, look, you will not be able to do nothing in return for

:03:29. > :03:33.your benefit any more. You will have to either turn up at the Jobcentre

:03:33. > :03:36.everyday or you will have to undertake community work, or you

:03:37. > :03:41.will have to get help for some underlying problem you might have

:03:41. > :03:45.like a drug addiction or illiteracy. We will not leave behind any more a

:03:45. > :03:48.generation on long-term unemployment, we will do everything

:03:48. > :03:54.we can to help them into work. Norman Fowler, compassionate

:03:54. > :03:59.conservatism, and is now the US style tough love? It is a variation

:04:00. > :04:05.of the old American workfare scheme, which has been around for some time.

:04:05. > :04:10.I think it is sensible, as far as younger people are concerned. Young

:04:10. > :04:14.people who refuse all offers to go back to work. We have more problems

:04:14. > :04:18.people who refuse all offers to go with older people, and particularly

:04:18. > :04:22.when it comes to some things that have been mentioned like drug use.

:04:22. > :04:31.The idea that you will have a sudden policy that will take them off drugs

:04:31. > :04:35.does not work, we all know that. As a general policy, I think it is a

:04:35. > :04:42.good idea. It sounds like it has a few holes in it? Any policy of that

:04:42. > :04:49.kind has a few questions, obviously. One of the questions is about who,

:04:49. > :04:55.indeed, it covers. In the vast majority of cases, I think it will

:04:55. > :05:00.work well. These people have been unemployed for a long time,

:05:00. > :05:04.obviously there will be a number of shysters in there as well, but a lot

:05:04. > :05:09.just have not been able to get work, they are the most vulnerable in some

:05:09. > :05:12.of the poorest in society. Will we really say, if you don't do what we

:05:13. > :05:18.want, we will take your benefits away and threw them on to the

:05:18. > :05:23.streets? You will have to have tough sanctions of one kind. You put one

:05:23. > :05:27.group, the other group are the ones working on the black economy. When I

:05:27. > :05:31.was doing the employment job, there were lots of people working on the

:05:31. > :05:36.black economy and claiming unemployment benefit at the same

:05:36. > :05:40.time. I think you have to look at that. I don't think you will be able

:05:40. > :05:45.to wave a magic wand and everything will go, it does not matter who is

:05:45. > :05:50.in power, but doing it this way is a very sensible step to having a

:05:50. > :05:55.policy as far as long-term unemployment is concerned. You don't

:05:55. > :05:58.want people in their 20s to remain unemployed for the rest of their

:05:58. > :06:01.life, basically. George Osborne will be taking to

:06:01. > :06:08.stage in about 15 minutes' time. We're joined now by the Treasury

:06:08. > :06:15.Minister, David Gauke. Treasury Secretary, the previous big flagship

:06:15. > :06:23.scheme of this coalition, welfare to work, has not worked, so why will

:06:23. > :06:27.this? The work programme has been effective. Something like 72 per

:06:27. > :06:31.cent of those who have been on it have come off benefits at one point

:06:31. > :06:35.or other. We are except that there are those who, having gone through

:06:35. > :06:40.the work programme, are still unemployed and we need something in

:06:40. > :06:44.place to ensure that we have something to address that. I think

:06:44. > :06:51.it is perfectly reasonable in those circumstances to identify one in

:06:51. > :06:58.three routes whereby people make themselves available to work. On the

:06:58. > :07:02.welfare to work scheme, in the first year, according to the Department

:07:02. > :07:06.running it, the scheme was so bad that it was worse than doing things.

:07:06. > :07:12.People who weren't part of the scheme got more jobs than those who

:07:12. > :07:20.work part. In the years two 13, you failed to hit your minimum targets.

:07:20. > :07:26.-- two and three. Why will this work better? That is not a fair

:07:26. > :07:31.representation. The work programme is focused on those most difficult

:07:31. > :07:34.to get back to work. Evidence is emerging that more people are

:07:34. > :07:39.working as a consequence of the programme, so I don't accept that.

:07:39. > :07:43.But nonetheless, at the end of a two year work programme there is an

:07:43. > :07:47.issue that there will still be people unemployed, and it is right

:07:47. > :07:53.that we put in place something that is fair to the general taxpayer who

:07:53. > :07:57.are funding the benefits, after all, but which is also a route through

:07:57. > :08:03.which the long-term unemployed put something back into society and get

:08:03. > :08:08.habits of working. And where more intensive help is necessary, that

:08:08. > :08:13.help should be provided. And if they don't take that help, you will take

:08:13. > :08:19.benefits away from some of the poorest and most vulnerable in

:08:19. > :08:23.society? Yes, because it isn't right that people who receive benefits do

:08:23. > :08:29.nothing in response. I think it is per fairly reasonable to say that

:08:29. > :08:33.you can only receive jobseeker's allowance if you do something, and

:08:33. > :08:38.either that is attending Jobcentres, demonstrating that you are looking

:08:38. > :08:44.for work, or community work for 30 hours a week plus ten hours a week

:08:44. > :08:48.looking for work, or we provide mandatory support to deal with

:08:48. > :08:52.issues such as drug or alcohol dependency or a literacy or

:08:52. > :08:58.whatever. And if they end up on the streets, that will be a price worth

:08:58. > :09:01.paying for your policy? We are saying that you can continue to

:09:01. > :09:06.receive support, but with conditions. I don't think it is in

:09:06. > :09:08.reasonable when tax payers' money is being spent supporting people who

:09:08. > :09:14.reasonable when tax payers' money is have been unemployed for three years

:09:14. > :09:19.or more, to say that we can get the -- give them the support but we

:09:19. > :09:23.expect something in return. Wages have failed to keep pace with prices

:09:23. > :09:28.since you have been in coalition. Labour would help freeze energy

:09:28. > :09:33.prices to help cope with the cost of living, what would you do? We are

:09:33. > :09:37.taking lots of measures to help in terms of increasing the personal

:09:37. > :09:44.allowance, taking people out of income tax, freezing council tax,

:09:44. > :09:46.freezing fuel duty, there is a long list of things. But living standards

:09:46. > :09:51.are still being squeezed, what else list of things. But living standards

:09:51. > :09:55.would you do? You can't divorce a discussion about living standards,

:09:55. > :09:59.and I accept that these are difficult times for many people,

:09:59. > :10:02.from the state of the economy. We have got to have a strong economy,

:10:02. > :10:08.get economic growth, deal with the long-term issues that we are faced

:10:08. > :10:13.with, such as high levels of borrowing, and we need to bring that

:10:13. > :10:19.down and start addressing debt. All of these are important. There is an

:10:19. > :10:24.idea that you can sin has separate the issue of living standards from

:10:24. > :10:29.where the economy is and making the right issue for the economy -- you

:10:29. > :10:33.can somehow separate. It is wrong. Labour have lost the big economic

:10:33. > :10:37.argument and they want to move onto something else. Living standards

:10:37. > :10:43.matter, but it is as the consequence of a strong economy that we get

:10:43. > :10:49.these rises in living standards. Labour will freeze gas and

:10:49. > :10:58.electricity prices, you have cut the tax on beer, so that is OK? As far

:10:58. > :11:03.as Labour's policy on freezing electricity prices, you know as well

:11:03. > :11:08.side to the flaws in that policy. We have two look at some of the

:11:08. > :11:13.long-term pressures, to look at the causes. We can debate for a very

:11:13. > :11:19.long time the flaws in Labour's policy, but we have increased the

:11:19. > :11:24.personal allowance and that has made a very big difference. £700 cash

:11:24. > :11:30.difference to millions of taxpayers, that is real help. The

:11:30. > :11:35.Prime Minister promised that he would legislate to put everybody on

:11:35. > :11:44.the lowest tariff. What happened to that? It has not happened. We are

:11:44. > :11:49.doing that. You are not. We are legislating in order to ensure that

:11:49. > :11:56.happens. That we get the lowest tariff provided to consumers. That

:11:56. > :12:02.is genuine. I have looked at the legislation, it does not promise and

:12:02. > :12:05.does not force the energy companies to put everybody on the lowest

:12:05. > :12:12.tariff, which is what the Prime Minister promised. We are ensuring

:12:12. > :12:16.that everybody is put on the lowest tariff. That is the approach we are

:12:16. > :12:24.taking, that is on top of a whole range of measures. Energy prices,

:12:24. > :12:30.Labour are committed to a decarbonisation target by 2013, that

:12:30. > :12:36.will put £125 on energy bills. It is not helping to address energy costs

:12:36. > :12:41.in the long-term. So you will cut green levies? Lou Mark Roe we are

:12:41. > :12:48.not committed to the decarbonisation target, it would act to electricity

:12:48. > :12:57.prices. We will hear from Ed Miliband that they will freeze

:12:57. > :13:04.energy prices, it is not coherent. When, by law, will everybody be on

:13:04. > :13:08.the lowest tariff? I can't give you a date for that. That is the policy

:13:08. > :13:13.we are approaching. Why not? Our a date for that. That is the policy

:13:13. > :13:19.bills are about to go up this autumn. British Gas is threatening

:13:19. > :13:22.huge rises. The only direct solution is to put us on the lowest tariff. I

:13:22. > :13:27.don't think the legislation does that, by the way, but I would like a

:13:27. > :13:33.date from you as to when that will happen, because people will suffer

:13:33. > :13:37.this winter. I will not give you a date here and now. I will check the

:13:37. > :13:39.position on that. The reality is that if we are going to get

:13:39. > :13:44.position on that. The reality is long-term energy prices down, not

:13:44. > :13:49.just for 20 months but 20 years, we need to ensure there is proper

:13:49. > :13:55.competition, we need to ensure... Why haven't you done that? We are

:13:55. > :14:01.always looking at what we can do. Let me ask you this, if you are

:14:01. > :14:05.trying to improve competition, why is it that base energy prices for

:14:05. > :14:11.gas and electricity before you add the green levies and taxes, why are

:14:11. > :14:15.they in Britain among the highest base prices in Europe? If you have a

:14:15. > :14:22.competitive energy market? If you base prices in Europe? If you have a

:14:22. > :14:24.look at energy prices as a whole, the UK is pretty well mid-table. We

:14:24. > :14:31.look at energy prices as a whole, don't have particularly high... That

:14:31. > :14:39.is after tax. Before tax, our base energy prices are the highest. If

:14:39. > :14:43.you look at the overall position, the UK doesn't have the highest.

:14:43. > :14:49.They are higher than we would like and we want to make sure we get

:14:49. > :14:52.competition and we don't impose a decarbonisation target that will

:14:52. > :14:59.make things worse. A freeze, as we heard last week, if anything, is

:14:59. > :15:03.likely to result in energy companies jacking up prices rather than

:15:03. > :15:06.reducing them. It is not a sustainable approach and the

:15:06. > :15:10.government is doing a lot for living standards but we cannot divorce it

:15:10. > :15:19.from the big economic argument, how do we get growth and deal with the

:15:19. > :15:22.deficit? There is a problem here for the Conservatives, Norman. You can

:15:22. > :15:27.have your view on the economics of freezing energy prices, but it is

:15:27. > :15:31.good politics, whichever way you look at it. The Conservatives, from

:15:31. > :15:37.that performance, have nothing specific to counter it, other than a

:15:37. > :15:47.general "the economy is recovering and living standards will rise when

:15:47. > :15:51.it does" . Yes, but Ed Miliband has opened an opportunity for the

:15:51. > :15:57.Conservative Party here, because he has gone back to the 1970s - price

:15:57. > :16:01.control, price regulation, all of that. You and I remember that sort

:16:01. > :16:07.of thing and the apparatus that went with it. That has put clear blue

:16:07. > :16:13.water between the two parties. It gives an enormous opportunity to the

:16:13. > :16:17.Tory party. But in the 1970s, you had Roy Hattersley running a price

:16:17. > :16:22.commission, trying to control the price of sugar and tea and all the

:16:22. > :16:25.rest. Even he admits that that was nonsense. That is not what Labour

:16:25. > :16:30.are proposing. They are saying the energy market does not work. The

:16:30. > :16:35.energy minister said so as well. So let's have a 20 month freeze on

:16:35. > :16:39.energy prices while we get the market to work. And there there will

:16:39. > :16:51.be a 20 month freeze on some other price. But the energy market is a

:16:51. > :16:55.cartel. But it is a complete contrast in the way the two parties

:16:55. > :17:00.would look at the position. I accept that there has been a response from

:17:00. > :17:05.the government to Ed Miliband, but if you go forward a few months, you

:17:05. > :17:16.will find that that is not how the public feel about it. They don't

:17:16. > :17:24.want to go back to price controls. They have seen energy prices rise in

:17:24. > :17:29.real terms by 40% since 2007. And of course, we are not in control of

:17:29. > :17:32.that and neither are the energy companies, but they say that when

:17:32. > :17:37.the wholesale price of gas goes up, their bills go up. When the price

:17:37. > :17:40.comes down, their bills don't go down, so it is a popular thing to

:17:40. > :17:46.say there something wrong with the market if prices are that sticky.

:17:46. > :17:57.Let's freeze them for a brief period and sort out the market. It is

:17:57. > :18:01.immediate and popular, but does the government start intervening in the

:18:01. > :18:09.market? I am not saying the market is working perfectly, but there are

:18:09. > :18:12.different ways of tackling that. Which the coalition is not doing.

:18:12. > :18:17.The minister could tell is nothing they are doing to improve the energy

:18:17. > :18:23.market. But you gave him a very tough interview. He was a treasure

:18:23. > :18:34.in minister. Are the Treasury across everything? You can't expect to be

:18:34. > :18:44.an expert on everything. He is running the country. My point is

:18:44. > :18:48.that there is a big contrast in the way the two parties are looking at

:18:48. > :18:56.it, whether you go with a market approach or government intervention.

:18:56. > :19:00.You are still very lively. Time for our daily quiz. The question is,

:19:00. > :19:09.which Tory cabinet Minister has spent time at a £2500 fat farm in

:19:09. > :19:14.Austria? Was it George Osborne, Eric Pickles, Patrick McLoughlin or

:19:14. > :19:25.Michael Gove? At the end of the show, Norman will give us the

:19:25. > :19:29.correct answer. Will I? So, what is the mood like in beautiful

:19:29. > :19:32.Manchester? Who better to tell us than two of Fleet Street's finest?

:19:33. > :19:38.Sadly, they were not available. Instead with, we have the

:19:38. > :19:48.Spectator's James Forsyth and Rachel Sylvester from the Times. Rachel,

:19:48. > :19:52.are they talking a lot about the possibility of a constituency by

:19:52. > :19:58.constituency electoral pact with UKIP? Nigel Farage is here today, so

:19:58. > :20:01.UKIP are dominating the whole thing. I don't think the Tories have worked

:20:01. > :20:06.out how to deal with him and the way in which local MPs will want to make

:20:06. > :20:11.deals with UKIP. We interviewed George Osborne last week, and he

:20:11. > :20:16.said the Tories had to win an overall majority. But he would not

:20:16. > :20:20.go into what would happen if an individual MP made a deal. He would

:20:21. > :20:27.not say whether or not they would be sacked. They are trying to work out

:20:27. > :20:32.what is realistic. It is a rum do, James, if a leader of a minor party

:20:32. > :20:37.can come to the giant Tory party and dominate events even though he is

:20:37. > :20:42.not allowed in the conference? UKIP is only part of the problem the

:20:42. > :20:47.Tories have to deal with, but if you go to a fringe, it is what the

:20:47. > :20:52.activists want to talk about. The reason for that is, you have seen

:20:52. > :20:58.Tory activists going over to UKIP. They all know someone who now votes

:20:58. > :21:05.UKIP. That is why it is creating a problem. I think to be's

:21:05. > :21:10.intervention by Nigel Farage is actually a weakness. He is admitting

:21:10. > :21:14.that the best UKIP can hope for is to come top in the European

:21:14. > :21:23.elections. He is saying, if we come top in the European elections, I

:21:23. > :21:26.will pull the dogs off after that. It is creating a strangely retro

:21:26. > :21:37.atmosphere here. It is all marriage, tax allowances. There is Maggie beer

:21:37. > :21:40.for sale. The Tories are almost caught in the headlights of UKIP,

:21:40. > :21:44.and the danger is that they are alienating more centrist voters who

:21:44. > :21:47.would otherwise be attracted to them, those who were originally

:21:47. > :21:53.attracted to the more compassionate conservatism that David Cameron

:21:53. > :22:02.offered. James, you are about to become a dad, you will need one of

:22:02. > :22:06.those iron baby T-shirts. I think you will see the Tories trying to

:22:06. > :22:11.mix up these messages designed to appeal to UKIP voters, whether on

:22:11. > :22:14.the European Commission of human rights, combined with more centrist

:22:15. > :22:18.messages on health and education. The big challenge for Tories is what

:22:18. > :22:21.to do about the cost of living. George Osborne is trying to say it

:22:22. > :22:26.is really about the economy and that you can't trust Labour with the cost

:22:26. > :22:31.of living. But if you talk to the Tories here from the most marginal

:22:31. > :22:35.seats, they will say this energy price freeze announcement has cut

:22:35. > :22:45.through, and they need a better response to that. Rachel, at least

:22:45. > :22:50.Labour has come up with something specific and easily understood. If

:22:50. > :22:55.you vote for Labour, your energy prices will not rise for 20 months.

:22:55. > :22:59.You go have a debate about before or after that, but the 20 months, they

:22:59. > :23:05.are frozen. Is it enough for the Conservatives to talk in general

:23:05. > :23:10.terms by saying with an economic recovery, you're living standards

:23:10. > :23:14.will recover? It is a bit vague. I don't think it is enough. It is all

:23:14. > :23:18.very well going on about a global raise, but if people are hobbling to

:23:18. > :23:22.the corner shop to get a pint of milk, they don't care about a global

:23:22. > :23:27.raise will stop there sometimes a lack of urgency in the way they talk

:23:27. > :23:31.about the cost of living issues. They need to understand that people

:23:31. > :23:35.asked ugly. They say they understand, but they have not

:23:35. > :23:40.demonstrated that people are struggling in their policies. These

:23:40. > :23:44.speeches are leaked so far in advance that we already know what is

:23:44. > :23:49.in them, but has he got something up his sleeve? Mr Miliband had the

:23:49. > :23:56.energy freeze up his sleeve for the last minute. Do we get is a prize to

:23:56. > :24:02.keep is interested? He will want to emphasise the welfare issue. The

:24:02. > :24:07.Tories can't do fairness through tax cuts, so they will try and do it

:24:07. > :24:10.through rebalancing the system and ending be something for nothing

:24:10. > :24:14.culture. George Osborne is taken with how popular the benefits cap

:24:14. > :24:19.has been, and he is looking for a repeat of that success. Rachel, what

:24:20. > :24:21.is the overall mood that? The Conservatives have had a good

:24:21. > :24:25.summer, partly because Labour had a Conservatives have had a good

:24:25. > :24:29.bad summer. The economy is recovering on a broad range of

:24:30. > :24:31.indicators, but they still face this index all mountain to climb for an

:24:31. > :24:37.indicators, but they still face this overall majority. So are they

:24:37. > :24:42.confident, depressed? Do they think it could be another hung parliament?

:24:43. > :24:44.They seem a bit thrown in. They were thrown by the Ed Miliband

:24:44. > :24:49.announcement on price freezes. They thrown by the Ed Miliband

:24:49. > :24:52.are convinced that it is wrong, but they don't seem to know how to deal

:24:52. > :25:02.with it tactically. They are thrown by the UKIP threat, and the feeling

:25:02. > :25:07.is slightly dis- combo dilated. -- this combo plate. That is a good

:25:07. > :25:11.American word. The Tory party is not sure to celebrate the fact that

:25:11. > :25:17.there is now clear red water between them and Labour or whether the

:25:17. > :25:23.centre ground has shifted so that they need to be careful about how to

:25:23. > :25:29.respond to Ed Miliband. The announcement on price freezes is

:25:29. > :25:32.clearly politically popular. Cameron is also trying to reassure his party

:25:32. > :25:39.that he really does want image are the. He will have to get the message

:25:39. > :25:44.across that he is not just banking on another coalition with Nick Clegg

:25:44. > :25:48.and will really try to win. So they are talking about things they know

:25:48. > :25:50.the Lib Dems will not agree on, like the human rights act. It is also

:25:50. > :25:56.about, whose side are you on? David the human rights act. It is also

:25:56. > :25:58.Cameron was worried that the Tories would be seen as being on the side

:25:58. > :25:59.Cameron was worried that the Tories of the big energy companies rather

:25:59. > :26:05.than the consumer. It is about of the big energy companies rather

:26:05. > :26:14.showing that you are on the side of the hard-working families, misspelt,

:26:14. > :26:19.as my colleague noted. But can they demonstrate that with their

:26:19. > :26:25.speeches, that they are on the side of ordinary people, rather than the

:26:25. > :26:30.wealthy elite? Or big business, the energy companies and the banks and

:26:30. > :26:36.the wealthy donors who support the Tory party? James, should we read

:26:36. > :26:41.anything into the fact that it is George Osborne making the

:26:41. > :26:47.announcement, not Iain Duncan Smith, the welfare secretary? George

:26:47. > :26:51.Osborne is a man with political ambitions and he knows this will be

:26:51. > :26:58.popular with the country. He is dammed if he is going to let someone

:26:58. > :27:03.else have it. And MP said to me this morning, by George, George's stock

:27:04. > :27:08.is rising. Perhaps people wrote him off a year ago, but now he is

:27:08. > :27:12.gaining popularity in the party. If he can be the man who takes the

:27:12. > :27:16.credit for a recovery, he will be back in the running for the

:27:16. > :27:20.leadership. But the Tory leadership is a marathon, not a sprint. With

:27:20. > :27:24.the omnishambles Budget, George Osborne over. He has now dusted

:27:24. > :27:29.himself down and he will be a contender when Cameron decides to

:27:29. > :27:33.go. But that depends on the Tories winning the next election. Osborne

:27:33. > :27:36.and Cameron's fortunes are so in extra doubly linked that if the

:27:36. > :27:41.Tories lose the election in 2015, that is the end for George Osborne.

:27:41. > :27:45.But if the Tories win that overall majority, there will not be a

:27:45. > :27:46.leadership contest, according to Mrs Cameron, because she says she wants

:27:46. > :27:51.leadership contest, according to Mrs her husband to stay in power until

:27:51. > :27:57.2020, and she is a powerful woman. I don't think any prime minister who

:27:57. > :28:01.has just won his first overall majority would want to stand down

:28:01. > :28:08.straight. Cameron would want to keep going. But is he the prime minister

:28:08. > :28:13.who finally manages to leave the stage with the crowd wanting more?

:28:13. > :28:21.If he does win a second term, the European referendum will be an

:28:21. > :28:23.obvious sticking point. If he wins that, he will be able to say, I have

:28:24. > :28:28.settled the historic question of that, he will be able to say, I have

:28:28. > :28:33.Britain's relationship with Europe. That might be the time for him to

:28:33. > :28:38.retire. I would not read too much into the 2020 comment. But he would

:28:38. > :28:43.also have to resign if he gets an overall majority, he goes to

:28:43. > :28:46.Europe, the renegotiations are not successful, he has a referendum in

:28:46. > :28:51.which little changes with our relationship with Brussels, and he

:28:51. > :28:55.loses the referendum? Then he is toast, is neat? The referendum

:28:55. > :29:02.pledge may come back to bite on. It may keep the right-wingers happy for

:29:02. > :29:08.now, but in the end, he will have to be in the yes camp and say that he

:29:08. > :29:13.has got adequate reforms from Europe. And a lot of his party will

:29:13. > :29:18.want to be in the no camp. So it could end up dividing the Tory party

:29:18. > :29:27.in an attempt to bring unity in the short term. You have got to think,

:29:27. > :29:30.how much back does Brussels -- how much back from Brussels does David

:29:30. > :29:35.Cameron needs to get to stay in the EU? That is an awful lot, and it

:29:35. > :29:41.might be more than is on offer. James, is it possible that some

:29:41. > :29:48.individual Tory MPs on the very Eurosceptic wing will try to do a

:29:48. > :29:54.constituency deal with UKIP? I think you will see a handful of them do a

:29:54. > :29:59.deal with UKIP. You will see a lot more of them make a play to UKIP

:29:59. > :30:04.voters, saying, I will be campaigning for Britain to leave in

:30:04. > :30:09.the referendum, so vote for me. It will be like 1997, when you saw Tory

:30:09. > :30:16.MPs who had a particular referendum party problem, including David

:30:16. > :30:21.Cameron. And the Conservative Party HQ turned a blind eye. And will UKIP

:30:21. > :30:24.have enough candidates to stand people in every seat? They will have

:30:25. > :30:46.to choose the constituencies where they have a hope of doing reasonably

:30:46. > :30:48.well. You would have thought they might back off from some

:30:48. > :30:51.constituencies where there are very tough, Eurosceptic Tory MPs. I know

:30:51. > :30:53.you want to see the Chancellor in action. Karren Brady is still

:30:53. > :30:56.talking. But is why the Chancellor is ten minutes late on his allotted

:30:56. > :31:04.time to speak. If you could ask the wind-up, we would be grateful. Other

:31:04. > :31:12.than the leader's speech, the Chancellor's speech is usually the

:31:12. > :31:13.biggest? Like you, I am intrigued that it is the Chancellor making

:31:13. > :31:19.biggest? Like you, I am intrigued this big announcement about

:31:19. > :31:22.welfare. You would have been mightily annoyed if you're

:31:22. > :31:27.Chancellor had taken that away from you? I think I might have been. I

:31:27. > :31:34.think Nigel Lawson and I would have had yet another of our periodic

:31:34. > :31:39.disagreements. I'm intrigued by that. I was also intrigued by what

:31:39. > :31:47.everyone is saying about UKIP. Frankly, we have been around this

:31:47. > :31:52.course before with the Liberals, the Referendum Party and a bit with the

:31:52. > :31:55.1997 election, which was not spectacularly successful, when

:31:55. > :32:03.people said we will divide in the party. I think as far as UKIP is

:32:03. > :32:06.concerned, it makes no sense for us to go into any kind of alliance

:32:06. > :32:10.locally, nationally or anywhere else, because it gives

:32:11. > :32:15.respectability to UKIP. We are talking about the right-wing of the

:32:15. > :32:21.Conservative Party, that any alliance with UKIP brings into play

:32:21. > :32:25.the centre and the left of the Conservative Party. They will not

:32:25. > :32:30.want that, people like me don't want that. If you were still party

:32:30. > :32:34.chairman and you learned that a right-wing, Eurosceptic Tory MP was

:32:35. > :32:40.doing an electoral pact with UKIP, what would you do? Bring him in, say

:32:41. > :32:45.it is an accept the book and if he continued, you would have to get rid

:32:45. > :32:51.of him, it is that straightforward -- bring him in, say it is not

:32:51. > :33:02.acceptable. Here is George Osborne at last.

:33:02. > :33:09.Thank you, Karren Brady, that was a brilliant introduction. You're

:33:09. > :33:14.hired! At every party conference, since the

:33:15. > :33:19.election, as we have gathered, the At every party conference, since the

:33:19. > :33:26.question for us, the question for me, the question for our country,

:33:26. > :33:33.has, is economic plan working? They are not asking that question now.

:33:33. > :33:40.The deficit down by a surge, exports doubled to China, taxpayers' money

:33:40. > :33:45.back from the banks, not going in. 1.4 million new jobs created by

:33:45. > :33:57.businesses, 1000 new jobs announced in this city today. Our plan is

:33:57. > :34:02.working. We held our nerve in the face of

:34:02. > :34:10.huge pressure. Now Britain is turning a corner. And that is down

:34:10. > :34:16.to the resolve and the sacrifice of the people of this country. And, for

:34:16. > :34:26.that, we owe the British people a huge, heartfelt thank you. Thanks to

:34:26. > :34:31.you, Britain is on the right track. So now families working hard to get

:34:31. > :34:36.on, anxious about the future, are asking these questions start can we

:34:36. > :34:41.make the recovery last? Will I feel it in my pocket? My approach has

:34:41. > :34:46.always been to be straight with people. So let me answer these

:34:46. > :34:52.questions directly. Yes, we can make the recovery a lasting one. But it

:34:52. > :34:58.won't happen by it self. We have to deal with our debts and see through

:34:58. > :35:02.our plan. Yes, if the recovery is sustained, then families. To feel

:35:02. > :35:07.better off. Because what matters most for living standards are jobs

:35:07. > :35:16.and lower mortgage rates and lower taxes. Family finances will not be

:35:16. > :35:21.transformed overnight, because Britain was made much poorer by the

:35:21. > :35:25.crash. That is what happens when you get a catastrophic failure of

:35:25. > :35:28.economic policy of the kind we saw under Labour, when no one prepares

:35:28. > :35:32.economic policy of the kind we saw in the boom for the bust, when the

:35:32. > :35:34.banks get bailed out and when government budget spiral out of

:35:34. > :35:37.control. We will never let that government budget spiral out of

:35:37. > :35:47.happen to our country again. APPLAUSE

:35:47. > :35:54.I share non-offer personal as I saw from the Leader of the Opposition

:35:54. > :36:00.last week. For him, the global free market equates to a race to the

:36:00. > :36:08.bottom, with the games being shared among a small and smaller group. --

:36:08. > :36:19.the gain being shared. That is the argument that Karl Marx made in Das

:36:19. > :36:22.L. It is what socialist beliefs, but socialism brings this about and it

:36:22. > :36:30.is the historic work of this party to put it right. Because attempts

:36:30. > :36:35.is the historic work of this party crisis and confiscate wealth crush

:36:36. > :36:40.endeavour and blight aspiration. And the people who suffer are not the

:36:40. > :36:46.rich but the hundreds and thousands put out of work, the millions made

:36:46. > :36:50.poorer, the generation whose lives are blighted. It is working people

:36:50. > :36:56.who pay the price when the economy is ruined. That is what Labour did

:36:56. > :37:02.to the workers, and the British people will never let them forget

:37:02. > :37:09.it. And so, by contrast, I'm an optimist

:37:09. > :37:17.about the world. I'm a believer in freedom and free markets. I see the

:37:17. > :37:20.global economy growing. I see hundreds of people in places like

:37:20. > :37:26.India and China leaving grinding poverty to join it. That is

:37:26. > :37:32.something to celebrate. It doesn't have to be a threat to this country.

:37:32. > :37:35.It is a huge opportunity. But we have to understand that the Wealth

:37:35. > :37:43.of nations depends on some basic truths. Jobs are only created when

:37:43. > :37:45.people build businesses that are successful and can expand. Exports

:37:45. > :37:49.only happen if those businesses are making things that others in the

:37:49. > :37:54.only happen if those businesses are world wants to buy. Investment only

:37:54. > :37:55.flows if your country is a more attractive place to do business than

:37:55. > :37:59.flows if your country is a more other countries. And the wealth this

:37:59. > :38:04.creates could be spread widely across the nation, but only when

:38:04. > :38:08.every child gets a good education, when each adult has the incentive to

:38:08. > :38:13.every child gets a good education, work and every family gets to keep

:38:13. > :38:19.more of what they earn. And to achieve all these things, you need

:38:19. > :38:23.to get the fundamentals right. The economic stability, sound public

:38:24. > :38:29.finances, says banks, excellent schools and colleges, competitive

:38:29. > :38:34.taxes, amazing science, welfare that works. There is no short cuts to any

:38:34. > :38:38.of these things, just the hard graft of putting right what went so badly

:38:38. > :38:43.wrong and forging a new attitude in this country that says, we are not

:38:43. > :38:55.afraid of the future, because we intend to shape it.

:38:55. > :39:03.So there is no feeling at this conference of a task completed or a

:39:03. > :39:07.victory one. We know it is not over. Until we fix the addiction to debts

:39:07. > :39:12.that got this country into this mess in the first place, it is not over.

:39:12. > :39:17.Until we can help hard-working people to own a home, save and start

:39:17. > :39:19.a business. Until we have helped the long-term unemployed, it is not

:39:19. > :39:23.over. Until there is real faith that long-term unemployed, it is not

:39:23. > :39:28.our children's lives will be better than our own, it is not over. The

:39:28. > :39:31.battle to turn Britain around is not even close to being over, and we

:39:31. > :39:43.will finish what we have started. APPLAUSE

:39:43. > :39:50.What I offer is a serious plan for a grown-up country. An economic plan

:39:50. > :39:55.What I offer is a serious plan for a for hard-working people that will

:39:55. > :40:00.create jobs, keep mortgage rates low, let people keep more of their

:40:00. > :40:06.income, tax-free. It is the only route to better living standards.

:40:06. > :40:11.Without a credible economic plan, you don't have a living standards

:40:11. > :40:18.plan. We understand that there can be no recovery for all if there is

:40:18. > :40:23.no recovery at all. In Italy, the deadlock in Washington this week,

:40:23. > :40:31.these are stark reminders that the debt crisis is not over. And yet the

:40:31. > :40:39.last fortnight has shown there is no serious plan coming from any other

:40:39. > :40:43.party. The liberal Democrats were jostling for position. I have to

:40:43. > :40:48.tell you today, and click has informed us of his intention to form

:40:48. > :40:52.a new coalition. For the first time, he is intending to create a

:40:52. > :40:52.full working relationship with Vince Cable.

:40:52. > :41:04.LAUGHTER Mind you, at their conference, Vince

:41:04. > :41:07.Cable did something that was undeniably Tory. If I had been

:41:07. > :41:12.there, I wouldn't have turned about the Lib Dem economic debate either!

:41:12. > :41:17.At least they had an economic debate. Labour's economic

:41:17. > :41:22.At least they had an economic announcements amounted to declaring

:41:22. > :41:24.war on enterprise, tax rise on business and an apprenticeship

:41:24. > :41:30.policy that turned out to be illegal. And then there was the

:41:30. > :41:35.energy announcement that completely unravelled. Now, any politician

:41:35. > :41:40.would love to tell you that they can wave a magic wand and freeze your

:41:40. > :41:43.energy bill, everyone wants cheaper energy. That is why we are

:41:44. > :41:48.legislating to put everyone on the cheapest tariff. But I will tell you

:41:48. > :41:54.what happens when you draw up policy on the back of a fag packet -

:41:54. > :41:57.companies will just jack up their prices before, so in the short-term,

:41:57. > :41:59.prices go up, and companies would prices before, so in the short-term,

:41:59. > :42:06.not invest this country and build the power station we need so, in the

:42:06. > :42:11.long term, prices go up. That is Labour 's offer - get hammered with

:42:11. > :42:17.high prices now, high prices later, higher prices for all. Don't worry,

:42:17. > :42:19.there will be a phoney freeze on prices in between. How should I put

:42:19. > :42:32.it? Britain can do better than that. Perhaps with all this talk of

:42:33. > :42:36.blackouts, we have been a bit unfair on Ed Miliband's leadership. We used

:42:36. > :42:41.blackouts, we have been a bit unfair to think light is on, but nobody's

:42:41. > :42:46.home. Turns out we were only half right.

:42:46. > :42:50.LAUGHTER .

:42:50. > :42:53.Now, I remember when we were in opposition. We made commitments and

:42:53. > :42:59.unworkable promises to abolish things like student fees. We felt

:42:59. > :43:03.good at conferences like this. And then we lost elections. In David

:43:03. > :43:08.Cameron got us to face the truth about the way we had come to be

:43:08. > :43:13.seen. He forced us to be credible, to reach out to all parts of

:43:13. > :43:22.society. Last week, Labour didn't do that. They retreated. Ed Miliband

:43:22. > :43:23.said he could make all of our problems disappear and send a cheque

:43:23. > :43:25.said he could make all of our in the post. It is not based on

:43:25. > :43:32.truth. More borrowing and more debt in the post. It is not based on

:43:33. > :43:37.remains their economic policy. But they no longer dare talk to the

:43:37. > :43:41.British people about it. Instead, they would much rather talk about

:43:41. > :43:47.the cost of living, as if the cost of living was somehow detached from

:43:47. > :43:50.the performance of the economy. You ask the citizens of Greece what

:43:50. > :43:52.happens to living standards when the economy fails. He asks on with a

:43:52. > :43:54.happens to living standards when the mortgage what happens to their

:43:54. > :43:59.happens to living standards when the living standards when mortgage rates

:43:59. > :44:05.go up -- you ask someone with a mortgage. Just a 1 cent rise means

:44:05. > :44:09.an extra £1000 on the average bill. You ask the citizens of this country

:44:09. > :44:14.what would be disastrous for living standards and they would say higher

:44:14. > :44:17.borrowing, higher welfare costs, higher taxes. These are not the

:44:17. > :44:19.solution is to lower living standards, they are the cause of

:44:19. > :44:33.them. This country is paying a very, very

:44:33. > :44:39.high price for that lesson. If you want to know the consequences of an

:44:39. > :44:49.Ed Miliband premiership, just look at a plan of the man who knows him

:44:49. > :44:55.best, his brother. David Miliband - one, leave Parliament, two, leave

:44:55. > :45:05.politics, three, leave the country, four dedicate your life to

:45:05. > :45:10.international rescue. David and Ed Miliband, the greatest

:45:10. > :45:18.sibling rivalry since the Bible. Kane and not very able. Now, our own

:45:18. > :45:19.sibling rivalry since the Bible. rescue mission for the British

:45:19. > :45:25.economy is far from complete. People rescue mission for the British

:45:25. > :45:30.know the difference between a quick fix from and a credible economic

:45:30. > :45:36.argument. Here is our serious plan for a grown-up country. First, sound

:45:36. > :45:41.money. The bedrock of any sustained recovery and improved living

:45:41. > :45:45.standards is economic stability. That is what the hard work and the

:45:45. > :45:51.sacrifice of the last three years has been about. In that time, they

:45:51. > :45:55.brought the deficit down by a third, and the British public know that

:45:55. > :46:02.whoever is elected will face some very hard choices. Let me tell you

:46:02. > :46:07.about the principles I bring to that task. Our country's problem is not

:46:07. > :46:21.that it taxes too little, it is that its government spends too much.

:46:21. > :46:25.While no responsible Chancellor ever rules out tax changes, I think it

:46:25. > :46:31.can be done by reducing spending and capping welfare, not by raising

:46:31. > :46:35.taxes. Surely the lesson of the last arcade is that it is not enough to

:46:35. > :46:39.clean up the mess after it has happened will stop you have got to

:46:39. > :46:44.take action before it happens. It should be obvious to anyone that in

:46:44. > :46:47.the years running up to the crash, this country should have been

:46:47. > :46:52.running a budget surplus. That is what we mean when we say they did

:46:52. > :47:02.not fix the roof when the sun was shining. Let us never make that same

:47:02. > :47:07.mistake again. Never again should anyone doing my job be so foolish

:47:07. > :47:14.are so deluded, as to believe they have abolished the age-old cycle of

:47:14. > :47:20.boom and bust. When we have dealt with Labour's deficit, we will have

:47:20. > :47:31.a surplus in good times as insurance against difficult times ahead. And

:47:31. > :47:36.provided that the recovery is sustained, our goal is to achieve

:47:36. > :47:41.that surplus in the next Parliament. That will bear down on our debts,

:47:41. > :47:44.prepare us for the next rainy day. It will require discipline and

:47:44. > :47:48.spending control, because if we want to protect the things we care about,

:47:48. > :47:54.like generous tensions and decent health care, and buying the best

:47:54. > :47:58.equipment for the brave men and women who fight in our armed forces,

:47:58. > :48:05.all of us have to confront the costs of modern government and cap working

:48:05. > :48:07.age welfare bills. And only if we properly controlled public

:48:07. > :48:13.expenditure will we be able to keep lowering taxes are hard-working

:48:13. > :48:19.people in a way that lasts. I have never been for tax cuts that are

:48:19. > :48:24.borrowed. I want low taxes that are paid for. We will also go on

:48:24. > :48:29.investing in the essential infrastructure of our country, the

:48:29. > :48:39.roads and railways and science and communications that are the backbone

:48:39. > :48:41.of the future economy. So we should commit, alongside to running a

:48:41. > :48:44.surplus and capping welfare, to grow our capital spending at least in

:48:44. > :48:45.line with our national income. These principles will form the foundation

:48:46. > :48:52.line with our national income. These of our public finance policy. I will

:48:52. > :48:58.set out the details next year. For those who ask, is this necessary? ,

:48:58. > :49:04.I say, what is the alternative? To run a deficit for ever? To leave our

:49:04. > :49:09.children with our debts? To leave Britain perilously exposed the next

:49:09. > :49:14.time the storm comes? This crisis took us to the brink. If we don't

:49:14. > :49:18.reduce our debts, the next could push us over. Let's learn from the

:49:18. > :49:24.mistakes that got him phew into this mess. Let us about, never again.

:49:24. > :49:39.This time, we will run a surplus and fix the roof when the sun shines.

:49:40. > :49:44.First, our plan secures sound public finances. Second, it supports the

:49:44. > :49:51.aspirations of hard-working people and let them keep more of the money

:49:51. > :49:54.they earn. We are increasing to £10,000 the amount you can earn

:49:55. > :50:00.before you pay a penny of income tax. That is a real achievement,

:50:00. > :50:03.delivered in budget after budget by tax. That is a real achievement,

:50:03. > :50:13.a Conservative Chancellor of the Exchequer. The Liberal Democrats

:50:13. > :50:15.like to point out that during the election, David Cameron said he

:50:15. > :50:19.like to point out that during the would love to increase the tax

:50:19. > :50:25.allowance, but warned that it was not easy to afford. He did say that,

:50:26. > :50:29.and he was right. The difficult thing is not increasing the tax free

:50:29. > :50:35.allowance, the difficult thing is paying for it, but we have done it.

:50:36. > :50:39.The result, and income tax cuts for 25 million people, equivalent to a

:50:39. > :50:44.rise of almost 10% in the national minimum wage. Real money in

:50:44. > :50:50.people's pockets. For we are the party of hard-working people. To

:50:50. > :50:55.anyone who questions that, I say, go to the workplaces of Britain, like

:50:55. > :51:01.the huge Morrisons in Sittingbourne. Meet the forklift truck drivers

:51:01. > :51:07.there. Go to the war button factory. Meet the people who work

:51:07. > :51:12.all hours. Hard-working people, better off because of Conservative

:51:12. > :51:25.tax cuts. These are the people we stand alongside. And because we are

:51:25. > :51:30.getting the public finances back under control, we have been able to

:51:30. > :51:35.help in other ways, too. Freezing council tax, cutting beer duty,

:51:35. > :51:41.tax-free childcare. Thanks to our prime minister, now a £1000 married

:51:41. > :51:51.couple's allowance, two, a conservative is made and more than

:51:51. > :51:57.delivered. -- a Conservative promise made and delivered. We have cut fuel

:51:57. > :52:01.duty, abolished Labour's fuel escalator. I can tell you today that

:52:01. > :52:05.provided we can find the savings to pay for it, I want to freeze fuel

:52:06. > :52:09.duty for the rest of this Parliament. Conservatives don't just

:52:09. > :52:13.talk about being on the side of hard-working people, we show it be

:52:13. > :52:25.in day out in the policies we deliver.

:52:25. > :52:30.Now, people aspire to keep more of their income tax-free. And many

:52:30. > :52:38.aspire to run their own business and work for themselves. My parents

:52:38. > :52:39.planned carefully, took a risk, set up a small manufacturing company

:52:39. > :52:47.planned carefully, took a risk, set more than 40 years ago. The company

:52:47. > :52:52.grew, they employed more people. In the life of the family business, the

:52:52. > :52:57.orders won, the exports, these were the backdrop of my childhood. I am

:52:57. > :53:11.hugely proud of what my parents achieved, and I am proud that they

:53:11. > :53:16.are in this hall today. And you should know this about me. I will

:53:16. > :53:21.always be on the side of those who use their savings, take a risk, put

:53:21. > :53:26.everything on the line to set up their own company. Labour increased

:53:27. > :53:31.small business tax, I have cut it. Labour were extending business rates

:53:31. > :53:34.to the smallest firms, I have exempted them. Now our new

:53:34. > :53:38.employment allowance will take a third of all businesses out of

:53:38. > :53:42.paying national insurance altogether. We Conservatives are

:53:42. > :53:55.nothing if we are not the party of small business, and that is the way

:53:55. > :54:02.it is going to stay. And we are the party of homeownership, to. I am the

:54:02. > :54:06.first person to say we must be vigilant in avoiding the mistakes of

:54:06. > :54:09.the past. That is why I gave to the Bank of England the powers to stop

:54:09. > :54:13.dangerous housing bubbles emerging. Bank of England the powers to stop

:54:13. > :54:18.But too many people asked ill being denied the dream of owning their own

:54:18. > :54:25.home -- they are still being denied. So instead of starting the next

:54:25. > :54:28.phase of home buying next year, we are starting it next week. There are

:54:29. > :54:32.some people, many living in the richest parts of London, who say we

:54:32. > :54:39.shouldn't be doing these things. I have this to say. Take your

:54:39. > :54:43.arguments down the road to where house prices have fallen for the

:54:43. > :54:47.last five years. Take your arguments to Bury or Morecambe, where young

:54:47. > :54:48.working couples are still living at home with their parents. Take your

:54:49. > :54:52.working couples are still living at arguments to our great towns and

:54:52. > :54:57.cities where there are families who have saved for years, earning decent

:54:57. > :55:02.salaries, who can afford mortgage repayments, but can't possibly

:55:02. > :55:05.afford it deposit being asked by the banks these days. Take your

:55:05. > :55:10.arguments to those families and say this policy is not right, you

:55:10. > :55:12.shouldn't be allowed to buy your own home. I will tell you what they will

:55:12. > :55:16.shouldn't be allowed to buy your own say back. It is all right for you,

:55:16. > :55:20.you have got your own home. We have been saving for years, what about

:55:20. > :55:40.us? I know whose side this party is on. We are the party of love -- the

:55:40. > :55:45.party of aspiration, and now the party of the Cameron's help to buy.

:55:45. > :55:47.We are the party of homeownership, and we are going to let the country

:55:47. > :55:58.We are the party of homeownership, know it. We will also make sure no

:55:58. > :56:05.one is left behind as our economy recovers. Our goal is nothing short

:56:05. > :56:10.of a recovery for all. That is the third part of our economic plan.

:56:10. > :56:14.Lectures from the left on fairness, frankly, stick in the throat. Under

:56:14. > :56:17.their government, the richest paid frankly, stick in the throat. Under

:56:17. > :56:23.lower tax rates than their cleaners on tax avoidance boomed, inequality

:56:23. > :56:26.increased, youth unemployment doubled, the gap between the north

:56:26. > :56:30.and south grew and the number of households where no one worked

:56:30. > :56:38.reached record levels. Fair? That was the fairest government of all.

:56:38. > :56:48.-- the un-fairest government of all. Contrast that with what we have

:56:48. > :56:55.done. When I say we, I mean we Conservatives. I sit at that cabinet

:56:55. > :56:58.table, and I know who has really put forward the policies that are

:56:58. > :57:00.delivering a fairer society. The pupil premium to support the most

:57:00. > :57:06.disadvantaged children, that was Michael Gove's idea, front and

:57:06. > :57:10.centre of the last Conservative manifesto. Our commitment on

:57:10. > :57:13.international aid, delivered by Andrew Mitchell and Justin

:57:13. > :57:17.Greening. Action on domestic violence, that is Theresa May. The

:57:17. > :57:22.International campaign to get raped recognised as a war crime, led by

:57:22. > :57:25.William Hague. New care standards for the elderly - Jeremy Hunt. The

:57:25. > :57:29.anti-avoidance measures in budget after budget, they are the

:57:29. > :57:36.painstaking work of our Conservative Treasury team, David Gauke and his

:57:36. > :57:40.colleagues. Rights for gay people, the biggest rise in the state

:57:40. > :57:43.pension, all delivered by Conservatives in government. And the

:57:43. > :57:47.overhaul of our entire welfare system, making sure work always

:57:47. > :58:05.pays, that is Iain Duncan Smith's life mission. These are all

:58:05. > :58:10.achievements of a modern, reformed Conservative Party that we have

:58:10. > :58:15.worked so hard together to create. But as we change our party and

:58:15. > :58:21.govern our country, there is more to do. I am part of a generation of

:58:21. > :58:26.Conservatives that came after the great struggles of the 1980s. That

:58:26. > :58:33.government rescued the country from eight tales bling -- a tailspin into

:58:33. > :58:34.decline. It renewed the foundations of cities like Manchester, but we

:58:34. > :58:39.decline. It renewed the foundations should not pretend we got every

:58:39. > :58:43.thing right. Old problems were solved, but new problems emerged. In

:58:43. > :58:49.some parts of the country, workless nurse took hold and we did not do

:58:49. > :58:51.enough to stop that -- workless nests. As a local member of

:58:51. > :58:57.Parliament, I know some parts of the north of England, we still have to

:58:57. > :58:59.work hard to overcome long memories of people who thought we did not

:58:59. > :59:04.work hard to overcome long memories care. Labour made the problem of

:59:04. > :59:09.welfare dependency worse. By the time they left office, 5 million

:59:09. > :59:13.people were on out of work benefits. What a waste of life and talent, a

:59:13. > :59:19.generation of people recycled through the job centre, collecting

:59:19. > :59:22.their dole cheques year in year out. No one seemed to notice. And opened

:59:22. > :59:26.or immigration policy meant those No one seemed to notice. And opened

:59:26. > :59:28.running the country did not care, because there was always an

:59:28. > :59:34.uncontrolled supplier of low skilled labour from abroad. Well, never

:59:34. > :59:37.again. We have capped benefits and our work programme is getting people

:59:37. > :59:45.into jobs. We have cut immigration by a third. What about the long-term

:59:45. > :59:50.unemployed? Let us pledge here that we will not abandon them, as

:59:50. > :59:55.previous governments did. Today, I can tell you about a new approach we

:59:55. > :59:59.are calling helped to work. The first time, all long-term unemployed

:59:59. > :00:02.people who are capable of work will be required to do something in

:00:02. > :00:08.return for their benefits and to help them find work. They will do

:00:08. > :00:12.useful work, putting something back into their community, making meals

:00:12. > :00:13.for the elderly, clearing up litter, working for a local charity. Others

:00:13. > :00:18.for the elderly, clearing up litter, will be made to attend a job centre

:00:18. > :00:22.every working day. For those with underlying problems like drug

:00:22. > :00:24.addiction and illiteracy, there will be an intensive regime of support.

:00:24. > :00:30.addiction and illiteracy, there will No one will be it gnawed or left

:00:30. > :00:37.without help. But no one will get something for nothing. Help to work,

:00:37. > :00:40.and return, work for the dole. A fair welfare system is fair to those

:00:40. > :00:53.who need it and fair to those who pay for it, too.

:00:53. > :01:03.? la economic plan, sound finance, backing aspiration, no one left

:01:03. > :01:11.behind, invested in the future -- our economic plan is. I am

:01:11. > :01:14.drivelling to China, and when you visit metropolises like there's it

:01:14. > :01:21.is hard not to be in awe of the scale of what is happening there,

:01:21. > :01:25.the ambition and the drive. -- I am travelling to China. Some people say

:01:25. > :01:30.that China is the sweatshop of the world and we should not compete, but

:01:30. > :01:37.China is also now a huge market for our exports and a home of

:01:37. > :01:40.innovation. This is a huge challenge for our country. If we get it right,

:01:40. > :01:45.it is the key to our future prosperity. This is what the debate

:01:45. > :01:50.about living standards is really all about. I don't want to see other

:01:50. > :01:51.nations pushing the frontiers of science and invention and commerce

:01:51. > :01:55.and explain to my children, that science and invention and commerce

:01:55. > :02:01.used to be our country. I don't want to look back and say that I was part

:02:01. > :02:04.of a generation that gave up and that we are poorer as a result. I

:02:04. > :02:07.of a generation that gave up and don't have to be. The other day I

:02:07. > :02:13.went to meet the people building a car that will travel at 1000 miles

:02:13. > :02:18.an hour and break the land speed record. It is not being built in

:02:19. > :02:23.Boston by some huge American defence company, it is not being built in

:02:23. > :02:28.Beijing by the Chinese government. It is called the Bloodhound, built

:02:28. > :02:34.in Bristol by British engineers, British apprentices and British

:02:34. > :02:42.companies. That is why I say we are in charge of our own destiny. In

:02:42. > :02:44.this great Railway Hall, can you imagine the Nation of Islam barred

:02:44. > :05:17.in being able imagine the Nation of Islam barred

:05:17. > :05:25.in being able We are at our best when we are optimists. We are at our

:05:25. > :05:28.best when we have faith that our country's better days lie not behind

:05:28. > :05:35.us, but ahead. We have fought hard battles these last three years, held

:05:35. > :05:39.our nerve when all around, people urged us to give in. And I want

:05:39. > :05:45.people to look back at these years and say yes, these were years of

:05:45. > :05:49.difficult cuts and sacrifice, but this was also the time when I bought

:05:49. > :05:53.my first home, set up my business, when our country invested in the

:05:53. > :05:57.things that matter for our future. These were the years when we laid

:05:57. > :06:01.the sound economic foundations on which better living standards are

:06:01. > :06:05.built, the sound foundations without which better living standards cannot

:06:06. > :06:10.be built. This is the time for a serious plan for a grown-up

:06:10. > :06:14.country. We are turning Britain around and we say to the people of

:06:14. > :06:19.this nation, we rescued the economy together, we will recover together,

:06:19. > :06:22.and together, we will share in the rewards, for the Sun has started to

:06:22. > :06:26.rise above the hill and the future looks brighter than it did just a

:06:26. > :06:44.few dark years ago. Thank you very much. STUDIO: George Osborne

:06:44. > :06:46.finishes his annual address to the Tory party faithful. He spoke for

:06:46. > :06:51.finishes his annual address to the just over 35 minutes is. He offered

:06:51. > :06:57.a serious plan for a grown-up country. He reminded not just the

:06:57. > :07:03.Labour Party, but the Liberal Democrats that the debt crisis was

:07:03. > :07:07.not over. He slipped in a little attack on Vince Cable, and I guess

:07:07. > :07:17.that is because Mr Cable attacked the Tories a couple of weeks ago.

:07:17. > :07:20.Interestingly, he promised that in the good years of a Conservative

:07:20. > :07:23.government they would run a surplus rather than a smaller deficit. We

:07:23. > :07:27.will look at how that might work. At rather than a smaller deficit. We

:07:27. > :07:33.the moment they predict deficits for as far as the eye will see, but he

:07:33. > :07:40.said they will build the roof when the sun shone. He said he would

:07:40. > :07:47.freeze Friel -- fuel duty for the rest of Parliament. I imagine that

:07:47. > :07:51.will be good for the heavy transport industry. He unveiled his plan for

:07:51. > :07:55.workfare for the long-term unemployed, which has already been

:07:55. > :07:57.heavily trailed. He did not use the phrase workfare, but behind closed

:07:57. > :08:02.heavily trailed. He did not use the doors or in the corridors of

:08:03. > :08:07.Manchester, that is what ministers are referring to it as. And he had a

:08:07. > :08:12.plug for High Speed 2. He gave no sign that, despite the lack of

:08:12. > :08:17.enthusiasm from Labour and a lot of resistance on his own side, he still

:08:17. > :08:21.called the high-speed train from London to Birmingham and then

:08:21. > :08:24.further north a great work of engineering. Interestingly, he

:08:24. > :08:30.didn't get a round of applause for that. Listening to that has been my

:08:31. > :08:37.guest, Norman Fowler. What did you that. Listening to that has been my

:08:37. > :08:41.make of it? The problem with all these speeches as they have been in

:08:42. > :08:48.the paper for at least 24 hours beforehand. In our day, we did not

:08:48. > :08:54.do it that way. So the response from the audience was that much greater.

:08:54. > :08:58.If, for example, the workfare proposals had come out of a clear

:08:58. > :09:04.blue sky, I think the audience would have been cheering. Why do they do

:09:04. > :09:09.that? Search me, is the answer. They so often get it wrong, the people

:09:09. > :09:13.who spin in advance. They get not particularly good headlines to begin

:09:13. > :09:18.with, then when the announcement comes it is yesterday's news. What

:09:18. > :09:24.do you make of the statement that he will run surpluses in the good

:09:24. > :09:28.years? I think it is sensible. I think it was a good speech. He has

:09:28. > :09:34.the great advantage of being a better speaker than most

:09:34. > :09:39.chancellors. He needs a new joke writer. It is difficult in those

:09:39. > :09:43.circumstances, in quite a serious speech about the economy, to bring

:09:43. > :09:50.out the great Morecambe and Weiss jokes. It is not that easy to do. I

:09:50. > :09:56.was not raising the bar anywhere near Morecambe and Wise, just to be

:09:56. > :10:00.better. He said we have to stick up the task, that must be the message.

:10:00. > :10:05.We are 15 months away from the election, how the party will be

:10:05. > :10:12.judged as how they are in 15 months time, have we made progress and

:10:12. > :10:15.would labour, frankly, ruin it? That will be the test. You think it was a

:10:15. > :10:21.great delivery? You seemed quite hesitant. FI was being

:10:21. > :10:27.supercritical, I would say he should have given more time at times, when

:10:27. > :10:33.he got to the punch line, he should have delayed it a little. -- if I

:10:33. > :10:40.was being supercritical. I think he is a fairly good speaker. The effect

:10:40. > :10:48.of what people were saying... The affection of people for him as a

:10:48. > :10:51.person has greatly increased. If David Cameron fell under a bus, you

:10:51. > :10:58.would actually see him now as a successor. Really? Yellow. I think

:10:58. > :11:02.so. I think he has become a much stronger and much easier to admire

:11:02. > :11:05.character than he ever was before. Well, listening to Mr Osborne in our

:11:05. > :11:15.Glasgow studio, is Labour's Treasury spokesperson, Cathy Jamieson.

:11:15. > :11:18.Welcome. I guess whoever wins the next election, Labour or the

:11:18. > :11:25.Conservatives or even a hung parliament, the long-term unemployed

:11:25. > :11:29.are in for it? They will have to get out and do something? I think the

:11:29. > :11:33.are in for it? They will have to get announcement today from George

:11:33. > :11:36.Osborne was far less vicious than what Labour has already said. George

:11:37. > :11:42.Osborne is talking about people having to turn up at the Jobcentres

:11:42. > :11:47.or being forced to go out and prepare meals for the elderly etc,

:11:47. > :11:51.we want to see people getting back into jobs. We have made it very

:11:51. > :11:55.clear that we would have a jobs guarantee, people would have to take

:11:55. > :12:00.jobs, if young people are out of work for a year or more, the

:12:01. > :12:04.long-term unemployed for two years, they would be minimum wage jobs but

:12:04. > :12:09.they would get help and support with the jobs search and some of the

:12:09. > :12:15.issues around literacy and so on. It is not that different, really? I

:12:15. > :12:19.think ours is far more ambitious than George Osborne has announced.

:12:19. > :12:23.It was quite astonishing to hear him talking about getting the economy

:12:23. > :12:25.back into surplus. In 2010 he promised he would have dealt with

:12:25. > :12:30.back into surplus. In 2010 he the deficit by 2015, he seems to be

:12:30. > :12:34.pushing that back into the next Parliament. I don't think his speech

:12:34. > :12:39.today offered any hope for hard working people across the UK. You

:12:39. > :12:42.are going to force the long-term unemployed to take a job, to provide

:12:42. > :12:47.the job, it will be guaranteed for them. This doll is born is going to

:12:47. > :12:53.force them to take a variety of things, but doing nothing is not an

:12:53. > :12:57.option -- Mr Osborne is going to force them. What sanctions would you

:12:57. > :13:02.have on the long-term unemployed if they refuse your force? The issue we

:13:02. > :13:08.have put forward is that it would be compulsory. These would be jobs that

:13:08. > :13:13.would be available for a period of six months, people would be obliged

:13:13. > :13:22.to take them. What is the sanction if they don't? Similar sanctions in

:13:22. > :13:28.terms of the benefits system. You would take away some of their

:13:28. > :13:31.welfare? The differences we are actually offering jobs and people

:13:31. > :13:35.are expected to take them because they would be proper jobs and

:13:35. > :13:39.supported. What we have heard from George Osborne today is not anywhere

:13:39. > :13:47.near as ambitious as what we have said we would do. What you both have

:13:47. > :13:52.in common, correct me if I am wrong, is that if the long-term unemployed

:13:52. > :13:58.don't do what you want, they will lose at least some of their welfare

:13:58. > :14:02.payments, correct? The majority of people who have been out of work for

:14:02. > :14:07.a lengthy period of time are desperate to get back into work. The

:14:07. > :14:13.answer is that yes, there would be sanctions.

:14:13. > :14:17.The sanctions would be withdrawal of welfare? Yes, but we would be

:14:17. > :14:21.offering real jobs for a proper welfare? Yes, but we would be

:14:21. > :14:25.wage, it is not just forcing people to do unpaid work for their

:14:25. > :14:30.benefits, it isn't highly different and we think it is reasonable to

:14:31. > :14:36.expect people to take that. -- it is highly different. I wanted to know

:14:36. > :14:41.what the sanctions would be. If Labour gets into power and growth

:14:41. > :14:46.returns to the economy and the economy is doing well, the way it

:14:46. > :14:53.was in the middle of the last decade, would a Labour government

:14:53. > :14:57.run surpluses? I think we would have to look at what is going to happen.

:14:57. > :15:04.We don't know what the state of the can you will be. If it is going

:15:04. > :15:08.well, would you run surpluses? In an ideal world, we want to see the

:15:08. > :15:13.economy returning to that position. But this appears to be unfunded

:15:13. > :15:17.promises. The announcement today on fuel duty fees, which seems to have

:15:17. > :15:21.been shoehorned in at the last minute because it does not appear to

:15:21. > :15:26.be funded, he can't see how he will pay for that and he will tell us

:15:26. > :15:30.that some point. That does not fit with a responsible approach to the

:15:30. > :15:33.economy. We are not making promises that we cannot guarantee we would

:15:33. > :15:41.deliver, but we want to see growth continue. Everybody wants to see

:15:41. > :15:46.that, but let me clarify. If the economy grows under labour for a

:15:46. > :15:51.large number of years, as it did after 1997, under a Labour

:15:51. > :15:56.government, would you run surpluses if growth continued? In an ideal

:15:56. > :15:59.world, we would want to do that. Let's see what the position is,

:15:59. > :16:02.world, we would want to do that. because we have no idea about the

:16:02. > :16:05.state of the economy. I am not because we have no idea about the

:16:05. > :16:12.asking you to run surpluses on year one, if you get four or five years,

:16:12. > :16:15.would you run a surplus rather than a deficit? We want to be sure that

:16:15. > :16:22.we can play some infrastructure. We did not hear much from George

:16:22. > :16:28.Osborne about getting the investment for the jobs. He tries to talk a

:16:28. > :16:34.good game, but today 's speech delivered far less than even I

:16:34. > :16:42.expected. And I am sure that your expectations were not high!

:16:42. > :16:47.Sorry, we have to move on. You know that we don't deal with history

:16:47. > :16:51.much. But the Labour Party conference last week might as well

:16:51. > :16:56.have been the War of the roses as far as we are concerned!

:16:56. > :16:59.Tories in Manchester yesterday held a tribute to former Prime Minister,

:16:59. > :17:06.Margaret Thatcher, who passed away. But can David Cameron match up to

:17:06. > :17:10.her? Adam has been finding out. You can't move for tributes to the Iron

:17:10. > :17:14.Lady, there is even a gift shop dedicated to her.

:17:14. > :17:19.But who will Conservative Party members vote as the better leader,

:17:19. > :17:28.Margaret Thatcher or David Cameron? What has she got? Guts and

:17:28. > :17:36.determination. Could David Cameron do anything to swing your vote? No.

:17:36. > :17:49.He messed it up on the gay vote for me. Will he have more of a legacy

:17:49. > :17:56.than the Iron Lady? Probably not. With the Tories ever see the like of

:17:56. > :18:01.her again? I hope so. Is there a potential Iron Lady in the Tory

:18:01. > :18:08.ranks at the moment? I don't think so. Cameron is much more democratic

:18:08. > :18:13.than Thatcher was. I would like to have two balls again, please. I

:18:13. > :18:17.can't say no to Mrs Thatcher, but I have to say yes to David Cameron.

:18:17. > :18:22.Most people my age don't know much about Thatcher. I am a fan. I have

:18:22. > :18:30.seen every thing she has done on TV. Every clip she has done, I have seen

:18:30. > :18:35.on YouTube. How do you think Mrs Thatcher would react if I thrust

:18:35. > :18:44.these balls in her face? She would say, you naughty boy! The hall was

:18:44. > :18:47.packed, there were people standing around the edges and there was an

:18:47. > :18:58.excitement about politics. Today, that has gone. What is Cameron's

:18:58. > :19:03.miners' strike? UKIP. In my opinion, someone has paid someone to put

:19:03. > :19:06.balls in the Cameron box. Quite soon, the Thatcher one will be

:19:06. > :19:12.overflowing. Then they will have to transfer some over to the Cameron

:19:12. > :19:17.box. I see a bit of Margaret Thatcher fashion tribute going on

:19:17. > :19:25.here. I looked like a granny, is that what you mean? No. Just one

:19:25. > :19:28.more. I have noticed that there is a lot of Maggie memorabilia at this

:19:28. > :19:34.conference. You were not taken by the Iron Lady ironing board cover?

:19:34. > :19:45.Hello! No. Who is a stronger leader, Thatcher or Cameron? Both. It is an

:19:45. > :19:49.Hello! No. Who is a stronger leader, either/or question, and as a

:19:49. > :19:54.history, lots of people like someone else. I will go for Margaret

:19:54. > :20:01.Thatcher, because she had balls. Who has got more balls, Thatcher or

:20:01. > :20:05.Cameron? If David Cameron was here voting, he would vote for the person

:20:05. > :20:10.I am going to vote for? Lady Thatcher, of course. Prime minister,

:20:10. > :20:15.who has got more balls, you or Mrs Thatcher? Now, the prime minister

:20:15. > :20:20.must have seen it as he swept through. The result of the mood box

:20:20. > :20:26.is that Margaret Thatcher is more popular than he is.

:20:26. > :20:33.We are now joined by the Conservative chairman, Grant

:20:33. > :20:38.Shapps, from Manchester. Mr Osborne says that in the good years, he is

:20:38. > :20:43.now going to run a surplus. But since you are projecting deficits as

:20:43. > :20:49.far as the eye can see, it will be a long while before you get near a

:20:49. > :20:52.surplus, isn't it? Well, it takes as long as it does determine the

:20:52. > :20:56.economy ran from what we now know was the deepest recession this

:20:56. > :21:03.country experiences the war. Twice as deep as that in America. That

:21:03. > :21:05.shows how bad it was under the previous government. We are making

:21:05. > :21:09.progress. We have cut a third off previous government. We are making

:21:09. > :21:11.the deficit. He made clear that we are going to finish the job and then

:21:11. > :21:15.make sure that when times are good, are going to finish the job and then

:21:15. > :21:20.we are running a surplus so that this country can afford it when

:21:20. > :21:25.there is another rainy day. So not before 2020? I don't know how long

:21:25. > :21:28.there is another rainy day. So not it will take mobot you have already

:21:28. > :21:29.seen the deficit reduced by a third. I hope we will have made more

:21:29. > :21:35.seen the deficit reduced by a third. progress by the time we get to the

:21:35. > :21:37.election in 2015. What was significant about today was that

:21:37. > :21:42.George Osborne said that never again, will we have the same mistake

:21:42. > :21:46.that Labour made of failing to fix the roof when the sun was shining.

:21:46. > :21:53.Can we get a few corrections to what has been said? The prime minister

:21:53. > :21:56.said yesterday on the BBC that 95% mortgages, which was what people

:21:56. > :22:00.would get and your Help to Buy scheme, he said they were

:22:00. > :22:06.commonplace. Can we get it on the record that that is not true? I can

:22:06. > :22:12.tell you that mortgages went up to not just 100% of the value of the

:22:12. > :22:19.property, but it went beyond. But they were not common. Actually, you

:22:19. > :22:25.could often get a mortgage for 90%, sometimes 95%. Those mortgage rates

:22:25. > :22:32.ran for decades without causing any difficulties. When it's beyond that

:22:32. > :22:36.to 100% of the property, and you could borrow money not just to buy

:22:36. > :22:39.your house but in addition, that was when it went wrong. We have

:22:39. > :22:44.prevented that from happening by giving the bank of England more

:22:44. > :22:47.power to stop it. The prime minister says people can't afford the

:22:47. > :22:53.deposit, so you are going to help them with that because they can't

:22:53. > :22:58.afford to service the mortgage. He is saying that they can afford to

:22:58. > :23:02.pay for the mortgage interest rate at a time when interest rates are at

:23:02. > :23:07.historic lows. They might not be able to continue to pay when

:23:07. > :23:16.interest rates rise, and they will be servicing 95 cent of the value of

:23:16. > :23:23.their home. At the moment, the market is oriented around 80 to 85%

:23:23. > :23:29.loan to value. But you will allow them to go up to 95%. But that means

:23:29. > :23:33.you need the most enormous deposit. It does not mean everyone will get

:23:34. > :23:38.95%. The government will back people who want to get on the housing

:23:38. > :23:40.ladder who are at the moment prevented because they don't have

:23:40. > :23:47.ladder who are at the moment upto £60,000 as a deposit. You and

:23:47. > :23:53.me, Andrew, and many watching this programme, we were able to get loan

:23:53. > :23:58.to values of 95%. That has not been available to this generation, which

:23:58. > :24:01.means that 35-year-olds, 37-year-olds are living at home with

:24:01. > :24:05.mum and dad. We think people in this generation should get the same

:24:05. > :24:10.opportunities as people in our generation. The only way you can

:24:11. > :24:16.stop house prices going up with this government subsidy is if you build a

:24:16. > :24:20.lot more, so why are housing starts under your coalition so poor? We

:24:20. > :24:28.have had some of the toughest times this country has ever known. As you

:24:28. > :24:35.know. Housing starts are now up. Not by much. In your first year, housing

:24:36. > :24:44.starts were 109,000. In your second year, they were 110,000. In your

:24:44. > :24:49.third year, they were 102,000. They are now running at a rate of

:24:49. > :24:58.110,000, the same as when you came in. There has been no improvement.

:24:58. > :25:01.But there will now be. When I was housing minister, there were lots of

:25:01. > :25:07.factors which dictated building homes. Planning permission is one.

:25:07. > :25:10.The second is the finance for people building the homes, and the third,

:25:10. > :25:15.which was not dealt with until this pop lit -- policy, is making sure

:25:15. > :25:19.people can get mortgages for those homes. The mortgage market was stuck

:25:20. > :25:25.at only giving mortgages at a loan to value of 80%, and people were

:25:25. > :25:28.having to get huge deposits together. That is why it was

:25:28. > :25:34.impossible to provide housing at the speed that we needed it. The

:25:34. > :25:41.pipeline suggests that there are now more starts that did not come

:25:41. > :25:45.through in the figures you mention. On UKIP, if a Conservative

:25:45. > :25:51.backbencher Eurosceptic decides to do a deal with UKIP at the next

:25:51. > :25:56.election so that UKIP doesn't run against them, as party chairman,

:25:56. > :26:02.what will you do? Our policy is of against them, as party chairman,

:26:02. > :26:07.course to have a referendum on a reformed Europe in the next

:26:07. > :26:10.Parliament by 2017. So all of our candidates will stand on the basis

:26:10. > :26:17.that the Conservatives will give you a referendum. Secondly, we will run

:26:17. > :26:20.candidates in all 650 constituencies, as we always do.

:26:20. > :26:28.Thirdly, they will only ever be on the ballot paper as Conservative

:26:28. > :26:36.candidates. What other parties do is their business. But if a sitting

:26:36. > :26:42.Tory MP or an aspiring Tory MP does a deal to be a joint candidate with

:26:42. > :26:52.UKIP, you will take them off the Tory approved list? Every person who

:26:52. > :26:57.stands for this election in this country for a party has to be signed

:26:57. > :27:02.off by that party to legally be the candidate. There will only be people

:27:02. > :27:05.on the ballot paper described as Conservative candidates. But you

:27:05. > :27:11.will disown any of your candidates who try to run with UKIP? Or I am

:27:11. > :27:17.saying is that whether other parties stand is their business. We will

:27:17. > :27:22.only run Conservative candidates. But if your MP is run as joint

:27:22. > :27:27.candidates with UKIP, what will you do? How can they be joint if it just

:27:27. > :27:31.says Conservative on the ballot paper? Whether other parties stand

:27:31. > :27:37.is their business. They can only stand as Conservatives, signed off

:27:37. > :27:41.by Conservatives. If Peter Bone does a deal with UKIP and runs as a joint

:27:41. > :27:46.candidates, will he still be the Tory candidate? I don't understand

:27:46. > :27:50.what you mean by joint candidate. You can only be the Conservative

:27:50. > :27:58.candidate. Whether UKIP stand or not is their business. If people want to

:27:58. > :28:02.have a referendum over Europe, I can't see any point in UKIP

:28:02. > :28:06.standing. We are the people who will offer the referendum and David

:28:06. > :28:15.Hamman is the only prime minister who will deliver on that. -- David

:28:15. > :28:18.Cameron. Who is the Tory minister who lost all this weight at the

:28:18. > :28:22.Cameron. Who is the Tory minister Austrian fat farm? Is that must be

:28:22. > :28:28.Eric Pickles. No, it was Michael Gove. Maybe Mr pickles should have

:28:28. > :28:33.been there, but Michael Gove lost two stone. That is it for today.

:28:33. > :28:38.Thanks to all my guests. The one O'Clock News is starting on BBC

:28:38. > :28:43.One. I will be here at noon tomorrow, our usual time, with more

:28:43. > :28:47.from the Conservative conference from Manchester. James Landale will

:28:47. > :28:54.be on BBC Two tonight with today at conference after Newsnight. Hope you

:28:54. > :29:00.can join him and me tomorrow. Till then, bye-bye. Thanks for watching.