:00:41. > :00:45.Good afternoon and welcome to the Daily Politics. The Government has
:00:46. > :00:48.reached an agreement with French energy giant EDF and a consortium
:00:49. > :00:52.that includes Chinese investors to build Britain's first new nuclear
:00:53. > :00:57.power plant in a generation. The site at Hinkley Point in Somerset
:00:58. > :01:01.will provide around 7% of the country's electricity. David Cameron
:01:02. > :01:04.says the deal will help shift the UK away from fossil fuels and towards
:01:05. > :01:07.low carbon power. He says it will lead to cheaper bills for
:01:08. > :01:11.consumers, but critics warn that households could end up paying over
:01:12. > :01:14.the odds for decades. Who knows what the Liberal Democrats
:01:15. > 2:32:57think about free schools? We are not sure, but we will be trying to get
2:32:58 > 2:32:57to the bottom of it. This belongs to the city, not the council. Directly
2:32:58 > 2:32:57elected mayors were supposed to be at the heart of the Government's
2:32:58 > 2:32:57localism agenda, but the idea has never caught on. We'll be asking one
2:32:58 > 2:32:57of the country's Q why. And it could be Glovers off between
2:32:58 > 2:32:57these two later as the Conservatives launched an attack campaign against
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Labour on the economy. All that in the next hour, and with
2:32:58 > 2:32:57us for the first half of the programme today is a man who puts
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Bristol first, and that is because he is the city's mayor, George
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Ferguson, welcome to the programme. He is also famous for being an
2:32:58 > 2:32:57architect, running a restaurant and a brewery, and more importantly for
2:32:58 > 2:32:57wearing bright red trousers, which we are pleased to say he is sporting
2:32:58 > 2:32:57today. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Now, first this morning,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57let's talk about house prices, because in London they have soared
2:32:58 > 2:32:57by more than 10% in a month, fuelling fresh fears of a housing
2:32:58 > 2:32:57bubble, but the picture is not the same in other parts of the country.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Wales and the West Midlands saw prices for last month, so what is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the picture in the West Country, George? Much more sensible. I think
2:32:58 > 2:32:57London has overheated, it is absolutely bonkers. You have got
2:32:58 > 2:32:57four borrowers with average prices over 1 million. This is just dream
2:32:58 > 2:32:57and, and it just makes it more unaffordable for those who have
2:32:58 > 2:32:57struggled to find accommodation at all. But prices have risen in
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Bristol steadily over the last ten years, haven't they? Yes, steadily,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57and my big worry is that this overheating by London will then
2:32:58 > 2:32:57spread out, and we have a big affordability gap in Bristol as it
2:32:58 > 2:32:57is. We need to build, and I am absolutely determined that we
2:32:58 > 2:32:57multiply the amount of affordable housing that we are building, which
2:32:58 > 2:32:57is at a disgracefully low level, by many times, hopefully by ten times.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57What are you doing to help that happen? As an architect, you know
2:32:58 > 2:32:57something about the building trade and how houses go from start to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57finish, why haven't more been built in Bristol? I think because we
2:32:58 > 2:32:57have... At affordable housing has been based on the back, and in a
2:32:58 > 2:32:57recession that is a tricky thing, and all the house builders try to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57get out of their affordable housing requirement. So I think we have got
2:32:58 > 2:32:57to be much cleverer about it, and there is no silver bullet. We have
2:32:58 > 2:32:57to look at every single means, so I am looking at every possible means,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57and I will be making an announcement shortly about how we up our game and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57produce affordable housing right across the range, both to buy and to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57rent. What about the Help To Buy scheme? Is it a good idea, or will
2:32:58 > 2:32:57it fuelled the bubble you have talked about in London? I think it
2:32:58 > 2:32:57is fuelling the bubble, and I think it should be reviewed. I mean,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57obviously, we have got to help people who cannot afford to buy, but
2:32:58 > 2:32:57this form of help to buy is the wrong way. I think it is boosting
2:32:58 > 2:32:57inflation in the house prices, and that is bad for us all in the long
2:32:58 > 2:32:57run. It may give people a good feel when they are sitting on a house,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57but what can you do with it? By another? I will tell you what you
2:32:58 > 2:32:57can do with it in London, come and buy a house for around half the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57price in Bristol. We will leave at there, it is time for a little quiz.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57The question for today is specifically, for our guest of the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57day, George, the directly elected Mayor of Bristol. But our many
2:32:58 > 2:32:57cities outside London have elected mayors? Is it 15, 25 or 50? George
2:32:58 > 2:32:57will hopefully give us the correct answer in about 25 minutes. So the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57UK is getting its first new nuclear power plant for a generation. After
2:32:58 > 2:32:57more than a year of negotiations with France's EDF energy, the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Government today gave the go-ahead for the coming to build the new
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Hinkley Point C plant in Somerset. This is the first new nuclear power
2:32:58 > 2:32:57station since the construction of Sizewell B began in Suffolk in 1988.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57It is capable of producing 3% of the UK's entire electors of the UK's
2:32:58 > 2:32:57entire liquidity needs. Hinkley Point is being built by a consortium
2:32:58 > 2:32:57led by France's EDF Energy. Two Chinese companies, China National
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Nuclear Corporation and China National Nuclear Corporation, will
2:32:58 > 2:32:57be minority shareholders in the project. It is expected to cost ?16
2:32:58 > 2:32:57billion to build, but it is the first new UK power station that is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57not being paid for by the taxpayer. It is expected to be operational by
2:32:58 > 2:32:572023. The Government has agreed to pay ?92.50 for every megawatt hour
2:32:58 > 2:32:57of energy that Hinkley C generates. That is almost twice the current
2:32:58 > 2:32:57wholesale cost of electors are the. The plant is expected to operate for
2:32:58 > 2:32:5760 years, and the entire operation will produce 7% of the UK's total
2:32:58 > 2:32:57energy needs. This is what the Prime Minister had to say about the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57announcement this morning. This is a very big day for our country, the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57first time we have built a new nuclear power station for a very
2:32:58 > 2:32:57long time in our country. Other governments have promised it, they
2:32:58 > 2:32:57failed to deliver it, but we have a long-term economic plan for Britain
2:32:58 > 2:32:57and we are delivering, including this vital nuclear power station
2:32:58 > 2:32:57which we hope will be the first of several other power stations,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57kick-starting the industry, providing thousands of jobs and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57providing long-term safe and secure supplies of electricity for
2:32:58 > 2:32:57individual. David Cameron there. Ed Miliband, perhaps unsurprisingly,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57was not so welcoming of the news. We will scrutinise these proposals, but
2:32:58 > 2:32:57we are in the ridiculous position today where we have got the Prime
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Minister, who says that he can fix prices 35 years ahead for the energy
2:32:58 > 2:32:57can, but he cannot freeze prices now for the consumer. No wonder we have
2:32:58 > 2:32:57got a cost of living crisis in this country. Earlier I spoke to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57southwest business correspondent Dave Carvey, who is at Hinkley Point
2:32:58 > 2:32:57in Somerset, and I began by asking how the announcement had gone down
2:32:58 > 2:32:57locally. Well, they are no strangers to nuclear power here on the West
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Somerset coastline. This morning hundreds of workers streamed into
2:32:58 > 2:32:57what they called Hinkley B, and they had to fight their way through the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57politicians and media circus that has been camped out since this
2:32:58 > 2:32:57morning. This is what they call Hinkley A, imaginatively named, the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57one that was switched on a 19 city five, and it has now been
2:32:58 > 2:32:57decommissioned. Hinkley C will be down the way a bit, about half a
2:32:58 > 2:32:57mile down there, ?16 billion construction project, and in this
2:32:58 > 2:32:57part of the world that means a lot of jobs, because not only is it the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57biggest building site in the country, think Olympic Park and half
2:32:58 > 2:32:57as much again, a huge deal for British construction and indeed for
2:32:58 > 2:32:57local people. Right at the tiny level, there is a little company in
2:32:58 > 2:32:57April -ish near here that is staging the letters EDF into blue overalls
2:32:58 > 2:32:57that everyone of the 5000 workers who work here will have to wear. So
2:32:58 > 2:32:57huge money, huge jobs. If you live locally and you are not in that kind
2:32:58 > 2:32:57of business, great big trucks lumbering past your door. It sounds
2:32:58 > 2:32:57like a massive project, as you say. The other side of the coin are
2:32:58 > 2:32:57bills. Are people confident that this will actually, at some point in
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the future, lower their bills or not Juma well, it is more about whether
2:32:58 > 2:32:57it goes up less than it might have done otherwise. It is horrible,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57isn't it? We heard one of the energy, is putting up their bills
2:32:58 > 2:32:57right now. This is all about what happens in ten years. The
2:32:58 > 2:32:57electricity that is generated here will not come on stream until 2023
2:32:58 > 2:32:57or 2024, and what has never been done before is building one of these
2:32:58 > 2:32:57vast power stations with private money. That one was built by the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57British Government, the ones that you have seen in China that George
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Osborne was looking at last week, they are built and paid for by the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Chinese government. The French pay for their own. Here we have a French
2:32:58 > 2:32:57company, EDF, and Chinese investors taking a risk, putting up the cash.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57To do that, as we know, they have been guaranteed this flat price, if
2:32:58 > 2:32:57you like a guaranteed fixed rate mortgage. That means that that will
2:32:58 > 2:32:57be twice the current wholesale price. I'm afraid what that tells
2:32:58 > 2:32:57you, well, ministers believe that within 15 or 20 years, actually
2:32:58 > 2:32:57twice today's prices will look like a bit of a bargain. I will tell you
2:32:58 > 2:32:57what, it is really rainy down here, the son did come out briefly, and a
2:32:58 > 2:32:57little while ago there was a rainbow over that nuclear power station,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57which had us wondering where the crock of gold is and who has got
2:32:58 > 2:32:57their hands on it. I will let you go and look for it!
2:32:58 > 2:32:57With us now is Shadow Energy Minister Tom Greatrex and Angela
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Knight from Energy UK, welcome to you both. Tom Greatrex, why did
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Labour not build a single new nuclear power station during 13
2:32:58 > 2:32:57years in government? We have got a situation where we need to renew the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57generation capacity. Labour restarted the process of making
2:32:58 > 2:32:57nuclear power acceptable again, assessing... You prevaricate it,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Labour was not in favour for quite a long time. Eventually there was
2:32:58 > 2:32:57support for a new generation, but time was wasted. We very clearly set
2:32:58 > 2:32:57a direction, and Ed Miliband did that when he was Energy Secretary,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57about renewing the supplies, how we do it in the best low carb way
2:32:58 > 2:32:57possible, how we get the mix of secure, diverse supplies. So you
2:32:58 > 2:32:57back this? I support new nuclear being part of the generation mix.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57This deal, we have to look at the specifics and some of the detail. We
2:32:58 > 2:32:57will have to scrutinise that very carefully. In broad terms, we
2:32:58 > 2:32:57supported the Energy Bill and the contracts which are the key
2:32:58 > 2:32:57mechanism which underpin the investment, and we support the 2020
2:32:58 > 2:32:57D Cobb and Isaac target to move us in the right direction to having a
2:32:58 > 2:32:57low carbon energy mix. But there are some details in this about which we
2:32:58 > 2:32:57need to be very clear in terms of jobs, the value of the jobs, the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57safeguards, and in relation to that what happens if there are cost and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57runs, as well as overruns, thinking in construction more widely as well.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57There is more detail to get into, so I cannot give carte blanche on this,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57but I can say that we do support new nuclear being part of the energy mix
2:32:58 > 2:32:57for the long-term future. Is it a good deal for the taxpayer? What is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57important about this is if we choose as a country not to use nuclear, we
2:32:58 > 2:32:57are in a position where we are further exposed to gas. Angela's
2:32:58 > 2:32:57members have said over the last few weeks what a big impact that has
2:32:58 > 2:32:57been inflation to be wholesale prices increasing, but if we end up
2:32:58 > 2:32:57in a situation where we are overreliant on one source of fuel,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57that is not a very sensible place to be. So for reasons of diversity and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57energy security, it is good to have new nuclear. That is the reality,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57isn't it? Do you back this deal? Yes, very much so. A lot of
2:32:58 > 2:32:57information has been put out today. Tom is correct that we need to see a
2:32:58 > 2:32:57lot more about it, and I'm sure EDF are going to be doing that, but they
2:32:58 > 2:32:57are talking about just under 60% of the burden of UK generators,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57something like 25... Something like 20, 20 5000 jobs, 900 apprentices.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57This is big, this is a huge project, both construction project
2:32:58 > 2:32:57and in terms of starting something which, I would agree, should have
2:32:58 > 2:32:57been done before, and that is rebuilding some of our ageing power
2:32:58 > 2:32:57stations. Because we do need a good energy mix, and we need to get on
2:32:58 > 2:32:57with it. Energy security, are you comfortable with the Chinese being
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the investors along with the French? We are going to be reliant on
2:32:58 > 2:32:57foreign powers, if you like. Well, using investment from different
2:32:58 > 2:32:57parts of the world is now a fact of life. We as a country invested
2:32:58 > 2:32:57assets in other people's countries as well, so it is nothing new, you
2:32:58 > 2:32:57know, that international is comes into play in the investment world.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57In fact, that has been going on for a long time, but this is the start
2:32:58 > 2:32:57of a programme, not the end. We have got not just other nuclear power
2:32:58 > 2:32:57stations that will need building, but other types of power generation
2:32:58 > 2:32:57as well. I expect the investment will come from lots of different
2:32:58 > 2:32:57places, including in the UK. Do you welcome this and the jobs it will
2:32:58 > 2:32:57bring your Regent EU. I welcome the jobs it will bring. I think it is a
2:32:58 > 2:32:57massive distraction from what we should be concentrating on. We
2:32:58 > 2:32:57should be concentrating on reducing our electricity needs, above all
2:32:58 > 2:32:57else. Yes. We should be looking at the most environmentally friendly
2:32:58 > 2:32:57ways of generating power. And if you build a nuclear power station, if a
2:32:58 > 2:32:57pyramid has been a nuclear power station in ancient Egypt, we would
2:32:58 > 2:32:57still be dealing with the waste problem. And I think we need to look
2:32:58 > 2:32:57at the distraction, because we should be investing all that ?16
2:32:58 > 2:32:57billion into making sure we reduce our needs and look at renewables.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57And we should be thinking about what we are leaving future generations,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57so I am not a fan. Can the country afford not to have nuclear power,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57when you look at the percentage that it provides compared to renewables?
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Can you really said there and say, I will take a gamble and throw our
2:32:58 > 2:32:57resources into renewables? Even France is reducing, Germany is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57eliminating it, Italy is eliminating it. Germany is increasing their
2:32:58 > 2:32:57reliance on fossil fuels as a result. That is in the short-term,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57and in the long term they will be concentrating on energy reduction
2:32:58 > 2:32:57and on renewables, and doing so very effectively. What do you say about
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the waste issue and safety? That has always been one of the problems, but
2:32:58 > 2:32:57many nuclear supporters will say it has been exaggerated over the past
2:32:58 > 2:32:57few years. Can I just respond to be point before, just quickly in
2:32:58 > 2:32:57relation to demand reduction and using energy more efficiently? Yes,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57these things are not mutually exclusive, we have got a real issue
2:32:58 > 2:32:57coming up, and if you could get low carbon generation from renewables in
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the way that was completely predictable and reliable in the same
2:32:58 > 2:32:57way that you can in terms of baseload from nuclear, it might be
2:32:58 > 2:32:57different. We need a mixture of all It is a wonderful opportunity for
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the UK. We are selling ourselves short by allowing the French and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the Chinese investors, who will make 10% out of this, to make the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57profits that should be made here with our own developing industries.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Bristol is concentrating on the energy industries. We are trying to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57make the most of the River Severn estuaries. Let's look at that
2:32:58 > 2:32:57rather than thinking we will put 16 billion into a great big solution.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57We need to look at everything. What does not get enough attention is,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57can we use less energy - whether it is power up or gas? The whole
2:32:58 > 2:32:57question about insulating homes is not sexy but it does need that the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57tension. I agree a real focus has to take place on that. -- that
2:32:58 > 2:32:57attention. Isn't that a distraction from the fact energy companies keep
2:32:58 > 2:32:57pushing up their bills? The announcement by for will do nothing
2:32:58 > 2:32:57in improving the trust of the public. -- by NPower. What they had
2:32:58 > 2:32:57done and other energy companies are doing is being much more
2:32:58 > 2:32:57transparent about the reasons why. Most of the increases are passed
2:32:58 > 2:32:57through. There is a real point that what has to happen much better with
2:32:58 > 2:32:57bills is there has to be clarity and transparency, so people
2:32:58 > 2:32:57understand where it is coming from. It may not be enough comfort to say
2:32:58 > 2:32:57prices are going up still. I think it is likely that prices will go up
2:32:58 > 2:32:57because the costing networks and distribution is increasing because
2:32:58 > 2:32:57investment is going in. The cost of various government policies is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57increasing because that is what is happening. I have no idea what is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57happening on the whole sum market but it is an upwards trend. --
2:32:58 > 2:32:57wholesale market. There will be emphasis on use reduction and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57insulation. There are foreign powers like the Chinese who will to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57some degree be in control. Let's go back to the strike price and how
2:32:58 > 2:32:57much it will cost. They have agreed a price of 92 pounds 50. That is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57almost twice the current wholesale cost of electricity. It does vary.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57It is still high. It is high. Do you packet? What is the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57alternative? -- back it. It is about expanding gas capacity. You
2:32:58 > 2:32:57are then reliant on the wholesale price of gas. If you look at the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57trajectory, it is very dangerous to do - putting yourself in a position
2:32:58 > 2:32:57where you are overly reliant on one fuel. With the new technologies and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57other developing points, one reason we have to put money into
2:32:58 > 2:32:57infrastructure, is to be a will to cope with diverse forms of
2:32:58 > 2:32:57regeneration. -- be able to cope. One thing many of our viewers
2:32:58 > 2:32:57complained about Of The Green levies, which are part of the bill.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Encouraging alternative forms of generation and renewables is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57absolutely valid. That is the way they have built it up in Germany.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57It is affordable. We are starting our own electricity company in
2:32:58 > 2:32:57power - our own energy company in Bristol - to be more responsible
2:32:58 > 2:32:57for keeping our own lights on. That is the way things should go. The
2:32:58 > 2:32:57more we get local generation, the safer we will be. The energy
2:32:58 > 2:32:57companies up a -- opposed to a price freeze. We're talking about
2:32:58 > 2:32:57fixing prices for 35 years. That is as far as the investor is concerned
2:32:58 > 2:32:57and the whole cell price is concerned. -- wholesale price. You
2:32:58 > 2:32:57get lots of actions which take place which are not ones one would
2:32:58 > 2:32:57want to do. It is not sustainable and it puts investors off. You end
2:32:58 > 2:32:57up with the customer being worse off. It is better to have a
2:32:58 > 2:32:57properly working, efficient market, and a competitive one with more
2:32:58 > 2:32:57energy companies coming in. It has to be really brief. This is exactly
2:32:58 > 2:32:57why the need to reset the retail market so it is clear, transparent
2:32:58 > 2:32:57and fair. -- weak-kneed. I am going to have to stop it there. Thank you
2:32:58 > 2:32:57very much. The Government thought cities like Birmingham Bristol and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Liverpool might like an elected Mayor and asked them in May 2012 if
2:32:58 > 2:32:57they would. Only Bristol said yes, partly, apparently, because its
2:32:58 > 2:32:57city council had often been seen as rather stagnant in getting stuff
2:32:58 > 2:32:57done. So, what does our guest of the day do as Mayor of Bristol and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57who exactly is he? Here's Giles, who's been following George for a
2:32:58 > 2:32:57documentary for Radio 4. In a few weeks, Bristol will have had George
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Fergusson, the man in a red trousers, as mayor with executive
2:32:58 > 2:32:57powers for a year. Not that he was a stranger to the city before the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57idea of a directly elected mayor was suggested. UK-wide architect,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57City developer and urban planner, he lived and breathed Bristol four
2:32:58 > 2:32:57years, as student, Councillor and advocate for the area. He designed
2:32:58 > 2:32:57a nationally acclaimed theatre. Why Bristol was the only city to say
2:32:58 > 2:32:57yes to an elected mayor in May, 2012, has something to do with the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57feeling that it's city council had rather stagnated in getting stuff
2:32:58 > 2:32:57done. Ferguson, if he won, might break that mould. He did win and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57polled 37,000 votes. He was sworn in at the Pru now passenger shed,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Temple Meads, in 2012. It is a challenge the political parties to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57wish their Challenger got the job. His motives and delivery say he
2:32:58 > 2:32:57likes the limelight with Iraq changing anything. He has, on
2:32:58 > 2:32:57occasion, struggled with political nuances of dealing with awkward
2:32:58 > 2:32:57members of the public. It is about listening to local people. I do.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Listen to your council. Not everyone liked his car-free Bristol.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57It depended who you were. Bristolians will tend to show you
2:32:58 > 2:32:57they are not sure if the idea of a mare has worked and if George can
2:32:58 > 2:32:57deliver. Three with three years to go, time will tell. -- with three
2:32:58 > 2:32:57years. It is an amazing job. There are some very tough decisions. I
2:32:58 > 2:32:57expected the unexpected. I think the politics has been interesting.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57I now have a Cabinet with four parties represented. I get on
2:32:58 > 2:32:57really well with them. You can disagree with me as publicly as you
2:32:58 > 2:32:57like. It is artificial having Cabinets that disagree and they
2:32:58 > 2:32:57tend not to - not in a way that is damaging. I have a pool of 70
2:32:58 > 2:32:57councillors from which to choose the Cabinet. Why do you think the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57idea has not caught on? People probably perceived it as adding
2:32:58 > 2:32:57cost and a layer of government. It is absolutely the reverse. The
2:32:58 > 2:32:57problem is, we have only gone halfway. We have overlaid and old
2:32:58 > 2:32:57system with a new system. We need a radical change in the constitution
2:32:58 > 2:32:57to make sure this works. A city the size of Bristol would have about a
2:32:58 > 2:32:57dozen councillors. We have 70 and over 600 minuted to committee
2:32:58 > 2:32:57meetings a year. We are Bob -- bogged down in government. What
2:32:58 > 2:32:57have you done to change people's lives? I have changed the mood.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57There was real cynicism and no recognition of leadership. I walk
2:32:58 > 2:32:57around the city and people recognise they have someone who is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57a real champion of the city. I am looking at multiplying the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57provision of affordable housing by 10 and looking at how we deal with
2:32:58 > 2:32:57transport in order to improve air quality, which is vitally important.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57I am looking at how we close the life expectancy gap, which is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57almost 10 years where you live. I am looking at all those big social
2:32:58 > 2:32:57issues. I may have spent my life dealing with buildings. What is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57more important is creating good communities. I am looking at
2:32:58 > 2:32:57devolving as much power as possible to the neighbourhood, which is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57vitally important. You might be against the idea of losing any
2:32:58 > 2:32:57power? As the mayor, I have more power than any city leader normally
2:32:58 > 2:32:57has. The vital balance of that is to share it with the neighbourhoods
2:32:58 > 2:32:57and the communities within the city. Bristol is the best city to live in
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the UK behind London, and Manchester it. Is that down to you?
2:32:58 > 2:32:57No. I have been going around saying we are the best city in the UK and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57now it is really good to have it endorsed. It is a brilliant city to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57live them. We have an enormous range of skills. I am employing
2:32:58 > 2:32:57people to of overheated London and come and play in Bristol. Chief
2:32:58 > 2:32:57cheerleader for Bristol! Just time to find that the answer to our
2:32:58 > 2:32:57careers. How many cities outside London had directly elected mayors?
2:32:58 > 2:32:57A) 15. B) 25. C) 50. Of the core cities and London, it is only three.
2:32:58 > 2:32:5715 otherwise. It has not worked as a policy. I think it is down to us
2:32:58 > 2:32:57to prove it does work. I think, in 10 years' time, you will have
2:32:58 > 2:32:57cities crying out for having a mayor. You'll probably have a more
2:32:58 > 2:32:57informed decision-making process as a result of it. Better to be
2:32:58 > 2:32:57independent? Far better. You have got a liberal background, having
2:32:58 > 2:32:57you? I think to a certain extent politics has spoilt local
2:32:58 > 2:32:57government. I put Bristol first and that was my only ticket and people
2:32:58 > 2:32:57absolutely relate to that. Thank you for being our guest of the day.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57So time now to look at what's on the political agenda this week.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Tomorrow, the director general of the BBC, Tony Hall, and Lord Patten,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the chair of the BBC Trust, appear in front of the Culture Media and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Sports Committee to talk about the BBC annual report. On Wednesday,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Prince George is christened and, of course, there is PMQS. Also on
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Wednesday the plebgate saga returns to the Commons because the Police
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Federation, IPPC and Chief Constables are in front of the Home
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Affairs Select Committee. Thursday sees the Dunfermline by-election to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the Scottish Parliament. And Friday sees the latest GDP figures. Will
2:32:58 > 2:32:57we beat the last quarter rise of 0.7%? Joining us now are Melissa
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Kite, from the Spectator and Torcuil Crichton from the Daily
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Record. Welcome to both of you. The cast list of the IPCC, the Police
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Federation and chief constables is all in front of the home affairs
2:32:58 > 2:32:57select committee. The select committees in Parliament are the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57new rock-and-roll. That is where all the drama happened. These three
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Police chief officers came out and said they refused to say what he
2:32:58 > 2:32:57did say it at the gates of Downing Street over a year ago now to the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57police constables. Unfortunately, they were taped and their account
2:32:58 > 2:32:57of the meeting contradicted that of Andrew Mitchell. Also, the IPCC
2:32:58 > 2:32:57keeps an eye on the police. It says there is a case of misconduct and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the police officer should have been referred for misconduct. It is a
2:32:58 > 2:32:57bit of a muddle. There is heavyweight support for an Drew
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Mitchell in the political village. You have Jack Straw coming in,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57David Davis coming in. The Home Secretary is criticising the police.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57It will go before the home affairs committee on Wednesday.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57reappointed to the government. He always protested his innocence, and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57those who knew him best said that this was most unlike him and that
2:32:58 > 2:32:57they didn't believe him. So I would hope that David Cameron would now
2:32:58 > 2:32:57give the man a job back. But in terms of the police, this goes to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the heart of whether the public can trust the police, so I think, if
2:32:58 > 2:32:57these are a few rogue officers, it would be better if they lost their
2:32:58 > 2:32:57jobs and we moved on. Let's look at the economy, how gung ho is George
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Osborne going to be ahead of and on the day of the race of those GDP
2:32:58 > 2:32:57figures for quarter three? The big action is at the end of the week,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57isn't it? Ahead of that, we have had the big announcement today on
2:32:58 > 2:32:57nuclear power, big potatoes, ?15 billion deal to keep the lights on
2:32:58 > 2:32:57for the next 30 years, and a lot of jobs for British companies, as that
2:32:58 > 2:32:57plant was built. Tomorrow, Danny Alexander will be rolling out ?17
2:32:58 > 2:32:57billion of loan guarantees for big infrastructure projects, how many
2:32:58 > 2:32:57will be in his constituency, people will ask, not many! And again on
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Thursday, the Prime Minister, Cameron will be in the EU in
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Brussels, batting to get rid of radiation which he says is holding
2:32:58 > 2:32:57businesses back, holding back growth. -- regulation. And on
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Friday, Osborne will be cock-a-hoop if the figures are up, giving them a
2:32:58 > 2:32:57glimmer of light for 2015, when he sees the economy is healing, stick
2:32:58 > 2:32:57with us, the other guys are always looking back over their shoulder.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Nobody is looking back, everybody is looking forward now. Do you think
2:32:58 > 2:32:57there is a risk of an looking to confident to Mack yes, I do, because
2:32:58 > 2:32:57if you are doing your weekly shop or pay your ass Bill, the recovery does
2:32:58 > 2:32:57not look like it is helping you, so the coalition can say what it is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57doing on the tin, that is good, but now he needs to show ordinary
2:32:58 > 2:32:57families that the recovery is delivering something for them.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Minister, just before we go, squeals of this loyalty over Nick Clegg's
2:32:58 > 2:32:57departure from government policy on free schools, will this help or hurt
2:32:58 > 2:32:57him? It is difficult, isn't it, because his own Minister, David
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Laws, is against him on this? There is a Lib Dem split, which is not
2:32:58 > 2:32:57very helpful. I think the strategy obviously is is that he is bound to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57get some different see Asian from the Tories. -- differentiation. He
2:32:58 > 2:32:57has to show how he is different from David Cameron, while still saying,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57we have done well in the coalition. I think his page is to say to the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57electorate, look, this coalition has worked, but it has worked because we
2:32:58 > 2:32:57have made it work. It is the Lib Dems in the coalition who are
2:32:58 > 2:32:57reining in the Tories, making sure that some of their wilder ideas
2:32:58 > 2:32:57don't get out of hand, saying that he is moderating this free schools
2:32:58 > 2:32:57policy, and that is how he will portray what he is doing in the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57coalition to sort of cell and softer voters. Briefly, Torcuil. He is not
2:32:58 > 2:32:57moderating at all, he is opposed to these free schools, but Michael Gove
2:32:58 > 2:32:57is in charge of education policy, and the Government is in favour of
2:32:58 > 2:32:57free schools. Thank you to both of you. Joining me
2:32:58 > 2:32:57for the last half hour are three Lady Peers of the realm, we have
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Labour's Jan Royall, shadow leader of the Lloyds, Susan Kramer for the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Liberal Democrats, recently appointed as Transport Minister, and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Peta Buscombe of the Conservatives. No shouting now, what is the Lib Dem
2:32:58 > 2:32:57policy on free schools? This is Skills Minister David Laws attacking
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Labour for shifting their position on free schools last Thursday. I
2:32:58 > 2:32:57think what will unnerve many free schools across the country is the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57speed with which the shadow Secretary of State has stood on his
2:32:58 > 2:32:57head Labour policy on free schools which will undermine confidence of
2:32:58 > 2:32:57those many schools across the country that are doing a fantastic
2:32:58 > 2:32:57and innovative job, and I just wrote attention to the fact that the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57proportion of free schools that are outstanding and good is higher than
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the rest of the school population, even though many of them have only
2:32:58 > 2:32:57been existence for two years. David Laws also defended the ability of
2:32:58 > 2:32:57unqualified teachers to do a good job. But yesterday, talking on Sky
2:32:58 > 2:32:57TV, Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg seemed to disagree. As we move towards a
2:32:58 > 2:32:57world in which more and more schools, in our system, have greater
2:32:58 > 2:32:57freedoms to decide things for themselves, do we at the same time
2:32:58 > 2:32:57as them to respect certain basic quality standards so that parents,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57mothers and fathers up and down the country, regardless of where their
2:32:58 > 2:32:57son or daughter goes to school, can be reassured their children are
2:32:58 > 2:32:57going to be taught by qualified teachers, are going to be taught the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57National Curriculum, just like any other school, and are going to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57respect the quality and standards for food, for instance, which the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Department for Education has recently endorsed? Two Liberal
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Democrats, two different views. Susan Kramer, can you tell us what
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Lib Dem policy is on free schools? I think you have got nicked
2:32:58 > 2:32:57articulating what will likely be in our manifesto, where we are going
2:32:58 > 2:32:57with this. David plays a ministerial role, and he's playing that role
2:32:58 > 2:32:57entirely appropriately in terms of making government policy work as
2:32:58 > 2:32:57effectively as possible. It is part of the way coalition works. It is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57not part of the historical way in which, if you like, British parties
2:32:58 > 2:32:57have managed, but it is clearly... We are in a new area... In a
2:32:58 > 2:32:57ministerial group, within a ministerial group, you know, you
2:32:58 > 2:32:57support and defend the line from the department, I think that is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57absolutely right and the only way to make government work effectively,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57but as we have nicked in his dual role of both party leader and Deputy
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Prime Minister, I think it is right that he articulates the very real
2:32:58 > 2:32:57concerns of parents and I think some very real concerns. Actions speak
2:32:58 > 2:32:57louder than words, and when the issue was raised in the education
2:32:58 > 2:32:57bill in the House of Lords, Labour tabled an amendment which would
2:32:58 > 2:32:57ensure that everyone teaching in a preschool was qualified. Not one Lib
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Dem rebelled, even Baroness Kramer on my left, she voted in favour of
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the policy. It is not at all unreasonable to watch a programme
2:32:58 > 2:32:57when it goes into place, to try and learn... To try and learn from the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57experience of what you see... I would expect Nick... Is collective
2:32:58 > 2:32:57responsibility dead? I would expect him to be able to do that. I would
2:32:58 > 2:32:57love to have the answer, is collective responsibility, one of
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the core principles of government, is it dead? I have heard many
2:32:58 > 2:32:57conservatives, quite rightly, complain about what they think are
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Liberal Democrat aspects of policy, and I do not think that is an
2:32:58 > 2:32:57understood... Ministers have sat on their hands during boats in the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57House of Lords, Government votes. -- votes. I think quite rightly,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57ministers have worked with their department and the government, but
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Nick plays a jewel role, and I think that is essential. Susan Kramer,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57David Laws, I should think, is upset, because this is a policy that
2:32:58 > 2:32:57he not only put forward, but believes in, unlike Nick Clegg, who
2:32:58 > 2:32:57voted for it but does not believe in it. What is the Lib Dem position on
2:32:58 > 2:32:57unqualified teachers? Which is right, which do you support? I
2:32:58 > 2:32:57listen to make in terms of forward policy, and I think that is entirely
2:32:58 > 2:32:57appropriate. I have no problem... I think most people in the public can
2:32:58 > 2:32:57work with this. There is a policy that has been decide for government,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57David is charged with making sure that it is effective as possible,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57and he is a big guy who can defend his particular positions. Nick Clegg
2:32:58 > 2:32:57is articulating a way forward on behalf of the country. I do not have
2:32:58 > 2:32:57a problem with that, it is an inside the Beltway kind of problem. Except
2:32:58 > 2:32:57people might want to know what the Lib Dem policy is! Thousands of
2:32:58 > 2:32:57children are now at free schools with unqualified teachers, including
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the issue of a 27-year-old head of a school owned by Lord Nash, and that
2:32:58 > 2:32:57particular head had no qualifications. He pays for it.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Let's come to the issue of unqualified teachers - is there a
2:32:58 > 2:32:57problem there? No, there's not. Nick Clegg is using this to grandstand,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57he wants to sound big and strong in front of his party. He wants to keep
2:32:58 > 2:32:57his job. Tories are upset because he is being 2-faced about this. He went
2:32:58 > 2:32:57to one of the most expensive schools in the country, Westminster, he
2:32:58 > 2:32:57probably had unqualified teachers who were probably brilliant. What
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the Conservative Party, my party, are keen on is having the best for
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the job, and overall most teachers are fully qualified in the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57traditional sense. But there are some who are fully qualified when
2:32:58 > 2:32:57they go in, and there are others who go through their training... In
2:32:58 > 2:32:57terms of your education, you were educated at St Paul's, where there
2:32:58 > 2:32:57may have been unqualified teachers, because that is allowed in the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57private school system. You do not support that now. It is hard to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57twist and unravel what might have been generational. I certainly had
2:32:58 > 2:32:57some brilliant and outstanding teachers, and I had some that could
2:32:58 > 2:32:57have used the training that goes with qualification. I think my
2:32:58 > 2:32:57personal experience was very much that it was a mixed bag. But that is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57a personal experience. I had that in the state system, they were all
2:32:58 > 2:32:57qualified, I had good teachers and some pretty awful teachers who might
2:32:58 > 2:32:57be qualified but were hopeless at teaching. There is a strong argument
2:32:58 > 2:32:57to say that if the taxpayer is paying for it, the taxpayer can
2:32:58 > 2:32:57establish certain key standards. You must be pleased about this, Labour
2:32:58 > 2:32:57must be welcoming this degree of scepticism from Nick Clegg about
2:32:58 > 2:32:57free schools, because you, in terms of party politics, are almost arm in
2:32:58 > 2:32:57arm. Well, not quite! On the issue of unqualified teachers and the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57standards of the National Curriculum, and you said you would
2:32:58 > 2:32:57support free schools where they exist and about surplus places, but
2:32:58 > 2:32:57in terms of the policy, much closer. That is true, but we have
2:32:58 > 2:32:57taken a principled stand from the beginning. Our position has not
2:32:58 > 2:32:57buried on this. You were against them and then policy changed.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Tristram Hunt last week was merely restating the policy that Stephen
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Twigg had announced some time ago. He changed his mind quite
2:32:58 > 2:32:57dramatically when he called free schools for yummy mummies. He might
2:32:58 > 2:32:57have changed his own... The policy for Labour has always been firm. We
2:32:58 > 2:32:57want qualified teachers, we want local government oversight, and we
2:32:58 > 2:32:57want financial accountability. Does that make it difficult for David
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Laws now? David is a big person, he understands this complexity, of both
2:32:58 > 2:32:57being in government, being a loyal and effective part of the department
2:32:58 > 2:32:57that you are engaged with, and of the government. That is also having
2:32:58 > 2:32:57forward-looking plans for the party as we build up for the future. That
2:32:58 > 2:32:57is complex and important, and I think the public understands it.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Therefore, those of us who are involved in it, we understand it as
2:32:58 > 2:32:57well. The whole issue is just a conduit for Nick Clegg to actually
2:32:58 > 2:32:57try to sound strong, which she is not. Don't talk over each other!
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Please remind me, how many Liberal Democrat MPs are there. I think it
2:32:58 > 2:32:57is roughly 57. Out of 650 Members of Parliament. Nick Clegg is trying to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57keep his head above water. He is looking for something to sound
2:32:58 > 2:32:57strong. He knows perfectly well that we are trying to do the best... What
2:32:58 > 2:32:57is going to happen? Is it going to destroy the coalition? That is what
2:32:58 > 2:32:57I want to know. Is he going to stick by the coalition and behave and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57demonstrate collective responsibility? Every time that Nick
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Clegg makes a statement that reflects Liberal Democrat policy and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57where we want to go in the future, there are conservatives who say, no,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57you have to be silent, fall in behind the Conservatives, do not
2:32:58 > 2:32:57make a statement that might not be party policy. The Conservatives have
2:32:58 > 2:32:57made many statements about where they want to take things, indeed
2:32:58 > 2:32:57they often feel frustrated and constrained by Liberal Democrats.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57You know, sometimes they convert that. I remember how hard we had to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57negotiate, to get the cuts on people at the bottom... Before we get onto
2:32:58 > 2:32:57that issue... We are in a situation where there is a relative amount of
2:32:58 > 2:32:57freedom within the coalition structure, and Nick Clegg has a long
2:32:58 > 2:32:57track record... Let's stop there. Just really briefly, are you going
2:32:58 > 2:32:57to try to woo David Laws to the Conservatives? We do not need to do
2:32:58 > 2:32:57that. All right, that is fine! To the town of Dunfermline in Fife, and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57this week voters be picking a new member of Scottish Parliament after
2:32:58 > 2:32:57their previous one, Bill Walker, was jailed for domestic violence. He had
2:32:58 > 2:32:57been a member of the SNP but was thrown out when the allegations came
2:32:58 > 2:32:57to light. The last time the seat was fought, it was pretty close, with
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Labour just 590 votes behind the Nationalists. For some reason, Adam
2:32:58 > 2:32:57was keen to go there. My mum lives in this constituency.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Over that side is Edinburgh and arguments about the referendum, not
2:32:58 > 2:32:57see or will commit EU membership and on the side is done ferment and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the pavement politics of a classic Parliament. -- North Sea oil or, EU
2:32:58 > 2:32:57membership. We are very keen to support the parents and maintain
2:32:58 > 2:32:57our services, including this local school. Isn't it misleading? This
2:32:58 > 2:32:57is a fantastic example for parents of Dunfermline and the wider
2:32:58 > 2:32:57community to show the Labour council they care about services.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57The Labour candidate is on the council. No decisions have been
2:32:58 > 2:32:57taken about schools. As a mother, Iris like to keep every school in
2:32:58 > 2:32:57five Open. -- I would like. Councils have to make cuts due to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the SNP government. Look here it is on the front cover! Gordon Brown.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57He is still the MP for the constituency next door. Round here,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57he is still a local hero. The Lib Dem candidate wants to talk about
2:32:58 > 2:32:57apprenticeships and seems annoyed the by-election is dominated by the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57issue of schools. I am disappointed they have taken up one local issue
2:32:58 > 2:32:57are not taken it as a wide local issue about local services and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57local democracy. It is all well and good to said there was a poor one
2:32:58 > 2:32:57group of parents but the issues on the doorstep of wider than that. --
2:32:58 > 2:32:57and they will support one group of parents. It is about the best way
2:32:58 > 2:32:57to take forward the town centres. Since they have had a majority,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57they had been ignoring all of that. People have been paying pre-
2:32:58 > 2:32:57recession business rates and it is not good enough. It is only
2:32:58 > 2:32:57happening as a result of someone being exposed as a wife beater. Did
2:32:58 > 2:32:57I mention that the Abbey is the final resting place of Robert the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Bruce? I knew the independence issue would creeping somewhere! --
2:32:58 > 2:32:57creep in. And the SNP MSP, Linda Fabiani, joins us now from Glasgow.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57This will be a real test of SNP support. How confident are you? I
2:32:58 > 2:32:57think we have a really good campaign going. The have an
2:32:58 > 2:32:57excellent candidate. It has been interesting being there. I had been
2:32:58 > 2:32:57there quite a lot. People are recognising what the Government is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57doing for them. You say people are recognising what the SNP have done.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57The leaflets at the start of the campaign to put a lot about the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57independence campaign. Now they're talking about the local schools
2:32:58 > 2:32:57issue. Is that because the issue of independence is not resonating with
2:32:58 > 2:32:57voters? Of course it resonates with voters. A very important referendum
2:32:58 > 2:32:57coming up next Georg. It a be bad of us not to talk about that. --
2:32:58 > 2:32:57next year. It is a two-pronged campaign. It is about adding
2:32:58 > 2:32:57another member to fight Scotland's corner. There are local issues and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57there are national issues. How realistic is the SNP? University
2:32:58 > 2:32:57tuition fees are all free. Can the SMP not make one hard decision? We
2:32:58 > 2:32:57are always making hard decisions. We have to do that. It is because
2:32:58 > 2:32:57of the settlement are get to Westminster and we have cuts
2:32:58 > 2:32:57imposed on us after budgets are agreed. We do it well. We have an
2:32:58 > 2:32:57excellent Chancellor. You have not made one hard decision? That is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57what devolution is all about. We have delivered a balanced budget
2:32:58 > 2:32:57every year. Universality is very important. We are up against the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57cat's Commission. No back door tuition fees or bridge tolls. These
2:32:58 > 2:32:57things are extremely important. If you couple that with the Scottish
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Enterprise Investment, we are doing as well as we can. Why, on the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57issue of energy prices, why does he not back the price freeze of Ed
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Miliband? We are hearing rapid rises for energy companies. We will
2:32:58 > 2:32:57look at ways of really cutting prices. We want to pay nationally
2:32:58 > 2:32:57subsidies that people paid through their bills at the moment three
2:32:58 > 2:32:57European funding. We want to do real action to help people. --
2:32:58 > 2:32:57through European funding. By- elections are always tough. I hope
2:32:58 > 2:32:57we will win. We have a fantastic candidate. Where the SNP to lose,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57it to be clear the wheels are coming off the Alex Sandro
2:32:58 > 2:32:57bandwagon. -- Alex Salmond bandwagon. I have real confidence
2:32:58 > 2:32:57in our excellent candidate but by- elections are different from real
2:32:58 > 2:32:57elections. We hear from Alistair Darling but
2:32:58 > 2:32:57not Gordon Brown. He is a hero. Should he be used more? He is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57playing a critical role in this particular by-election. Do you
2:32:58 > 2:32:57think the Conservatives are making up the numbers? Not battle. I'm
2:32:58 > 2:32:57talking about the whole issue of devolution. -- not at all. It was
2:32:58 > 2:32:57clear that the Labour government thought if they gave a devolved
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Scottish Parliament to Scotland and a Welsh assembly to Wales can
2:32:58 > 2:32:57everyone would vote for Labour and everyone would be a joyous and
2:32:58 > 2:32:57happy. That was a totally naive concept. We are listening to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57someone saying, if we have an SMP, we will go independent and it will
2:32:58 > 2:32:57be funded from the European fund was up it is insane. What about the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57fact that Labour did not work hard enough? -- European Fund. There is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57an element of truth in that. The Liberal Democrats have lost a lot
2:32:58 > 2:32:57of support. There was a price for going into coalition. A huge price.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57We were faced with a huge crisis and that has been inevitable. You
2:32:58 > 2:32:57heard the frustration from the Liberal Democrat candidate that we
2:32:58 > 2:32:57think a lot of this discussion should be around apprenticeships
2:32:58 > 2:32:57and jobs. Many Scottish firms so far had engaged in this process. It
2:32:58 > 2:32:57is crucially important for young people. I hope we get a focus back
2:32:58 > 2:32:57around those issues. There are seven candidates for the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Dunfermline by election and you can find details of them all on the BBC
2:32:58 > 2:32:57website. Now who likes a bit of gloves off political campaigning?
2:32:58 > 2:32:57We always like to show a bit. Take a look at this.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Well, later this week the Conservatives are planning to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57launch a new campaign video featuring Mystic Ed and His Crystal
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Balls, ridiculing the Labour leadership's economic predictions.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57The coalition party is needing clearly into election mode. Is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57there a worry about being over- confident on the economy? Not at
2:32:58 > 2:32:57all. We need to exude some confidence - not too much. The
2:32:58 > 2:32:57reality is that Ed Balls has continually tried to trash
2:32:58 > 2:32:57everything the coalition government had been doing in order to improve
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the economy. It is important that people appreciate that we need more
2:32:58 > 2:32:57time but things are looking better. And to remind people that Ed Balls
2:32:58 > 2:32:57was the cohort of Gordon Brown. No more boom and bust. Look at it! The
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Labour government completely destroyed this country economically.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57There was a global crisis. There was a global crisis but it was
2:32:58 > 2:32:57hugely made worse by the Labour government, who only know had to
2:32:58 > 2:32:57spend money. When we left government, the economy was growing.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Three wasted years. Yes, it was growing. The point about this
2:32:58 > 2:32:57obnoxious personalised campaign out is the only reason it is taking
2:32:58 > 2:32:57place is because the Government knows the cost of living - people's
2:32:58 > 2:32:57concerns about the cost of living - the Tories do not understand this
2:32:58 > 2:32:57and people in the street relate to what Ed Miliband is saying. I was
2:32:58 > 2:32:57on the doorstep in Gloucester and there were people who voted Liberal
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Democrat in the past to run out voting Labour because Ed Miliband
2:32:58 > 2:32:57understands the problems we are having day-to-day with the Budget.
2:32:58 > 2:32:57We will never know categorically whether the Government's policies
2:32:58 > 2:32:57delayed a recovery or whether your policies would have hastened it?
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Labour were wrong, one day, to say that the Government policies would
2:32:58 > 2:32:57choke off the recovery. Growth has returned. Gross has returned but
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Gross is returning very slowly. Much more slowly than it would have
2:32:58 > 2:32:57done. -- growth is Wittering. We keep hearing this nonsense in a
2:32:58 > 2:32:57house of Lords. Labour left us with a wrecked economy. When the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57financial crisis hit, there was no cushion because of years of
2:32:58 > 2:32:57overspending and years of overspending programmed for the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57future. There was no commission to be able to deal with that crisis. -
2:32:58 > 2:32:57- cushion. They have argued for more and more debt. Every policy
2:32:58 > 2:32:57that we espouse is a costed policy. We do not call for more debt. You
2:32:58 > 2:32:57called for fiscal stimulus to get more growth. We said, at the time,
2:32:58 > 2:32:57had we been in government, we would have spent more. Now we are costing
2:32:58 > 2:32:57every policy that we espouse. The problem is credibility in terms of
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the economy. In terms of the overspending allegation against
2:32:58 > 2:32:57Labour, the Tories did not ever call for that to be reined in when
2:32:58 > 2:32:57they were in opposition. They did not call for more regulation on the
2:32:58 > 2:32:57banks. That is not true. There was always discussion about how we do
2:32:58 > 2:32:57what we can... Not before the crash. The reality is, the Tories have
2:32:58 > 2:32:57always recognised the best way out of the crisis was to create more
2:32:58 > 2:32:57jobs, have a situation where we stop the massive spending across
2:32:58 > 2:32:57all departments which went on and on, regardless of what was
2:32:58 > 2:32:57happening across the country. Now we have a situation where we are
2:32:58 > 2:32:57saying the only way out of this is to have jobs. Youth unemployment is
2:32:58 > 2:32:57going down. A youth unemployment is not going down. This improvement in
2:32:58 > 2:32:57the economy, which of course I welcome, at the moment the only
2:32:58 > 2:32:57people who benefit are a privileged view. The working people of this
2:32:58 > 2:32:57country and not benefiting at all four star We will all have to agree
2:32:58 > 2:32:57to disagree. That is it. -- at all. That is all for today. The One
2:32:58 > 2:32:57o'clock News is starting over on BBC One now. I will be here at noon
2:32:58 > 2:32:57tomorrow with all the big political stories of the day and I will be
2:32:58 > 2:32:58joined by David Blunkett. Goodbye.