:00:36. > :00:39.Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:40. > :00:42.The dominance of a private-school educated elite in the "upper
:00:43. > :00:46.echelons" of public life in Britain is "truly shocking", says John
:00:47. > :00:58.Major. Who could the former Prime Minister be talking about?
:00:59. > :01:02.Will the Government's "Help to Buy" scheme give young people the leg up
:01:03. > :01:03.they need? A month on from its launch, the Government hales it a
:01:04. > :01:24.success - but could it create launch, the Government hales it a
:01:25. > :01:26.All that in the next hour. With us for the whole programme today is
:01:27. > :01:33.Professor Michael Clarke of the Royal United Services Institute -
:01:34. > :01:36.welcome to the programme. First this morning, the Prime
:01:37. > :01:39.Minister is due to attend the Commonwealth Heads of Government
:01:40. > :01:42.Meeting in Sri Lanka later this week, but he is coming under
:01:43. > :01:45.pressure to boycott it because of the country's poor human rights
:01:46. > :01:48.record. Last week the Canadian prime minister pulled out of the biennial
:01:49. > :01:52.get-together of Commonwealth leaders and at the weekend, the Indian prime
:01:53. > :01:54.minister followed suit. Yesterday the Foreign Secretary, William
:01:55. > :02:05.Hague, defended David Cameron's decision to travel to Columbo. If we
:02:06. > :02:10.were to stay away from this meeting in true Lankan next week, it would
:02:11. > :02:11.damage the Commonwealth without changing things positively in Sri
:02:12. > :02:34.Lanka. We need to be Office Minister Kerry MacCarthy. We
:02:35. > :02:37.asked for a Foreign Office minister to come on the programme but no one
:02:38. > :02:43.was available. Thank you for joining us. Why shouldn't David Cameron go?
:02:44. > :02:48.If you look at Sri Lanka's human rights record, particularly to the
:02:49. > :02:52.closing stages of the war which ended in 2009, it is absolutely
:02:53. > :02:57.shocking. When it was agreed that the summit would be held in 2013,
:02:58. > :03:00.that was strictly on the understanding that Sri Lanka would
:03:01. > :03:03.make real efforts to address their human rights record in the interim
:03:04. > :03:10.period and they simply haven't done so. In terms of when they have been
:03:11. > :03:14.challenged on these issues, they have denied that anything has been
:03:15. > :03:18.going on. You look at the Canadian prime minister, he said he will not
:03:19. > :03:22.attend, as has the Indian Prime Minister. We are asking David
:03:23. > :03:42.Cameron to do the same. Do you agree?
:03:43. > :03:45.danger is what will be an impressing summit in any case, if Cameron goes
:03:46. > :03:49.and the Indians and Canadians are not there, it will be a running sore
:03:50. > :03:55.in the am and what for years to come. Not as bad as Rhodesia but may
:03:56. > :03:58.be heading in that direction. If David Cameron boycott the Heads of
:03:59. > :04:06.Government Meeting, how will that change human rights intra- Lankan?
:04:07. > :04:10.-- in Sri Lanka. Our concern is that it will present a face to the world
:04:11. > :04:14.that everything is right. He said he will be taken to some of the
:04:15. > :04:17.troubled spots but we know that in the past, Conservative MPs have come
:04:18. > :04:22.back with glowing accounts but have not been shown the real horrors. The
:04:23. > :04:27.foreign office will have briefed David Cameron and if he is there, he
:04:28. > :04:31.can make much stronger representations as the head of
:04:32. > :04:33.government than by not going. He should have been doing this for the
:04:34. > :04:52.entire length of 2013. should have been doing this for the
:04:53. > :04:56.example to the Commonwealth on your human rights record. They have not
:04:57. > :04:59.done anything and David Cameron has not used the period to put pressure
:05:00. > :05:05.on them either. He has left it far too late. What do you think on the
:05:06. > :05:09.issue of influence? Would it be in a better place to make a stand now,
:05:10. > :05:14.even if it is late in the day, by going, than by sending a junior
:05:15. > :05:18.minister? Yes, the Sri Lankan government has got to understand
:05:19. > :05:23.that they beat the Tamil tigers and now they have been suppressing the
:05:24. > :05:30.Tamil people. They say there have been atrocities on both sides. There
:05:31. > :05:36.is a very big Tamil minority and that has an impact. Although this
:05:37. > :05:40.summit is going to be a bit of a mess, it is probably better on
:05:41. > :05:42.balance to make the points that need to be made now so they can be
:05:43. > :06:03.followed up later. to be made now so they can be
:06:04. > :06:08.dog can -- gets forgotten about. Generally the issue has not made a
:06:09. > :06:12.headline is more than a couple of times and the same fate will happen
:06:13. > :06:15.again if he does not go. It is important to keep it on the
:06:16. > :06:19.international agenda and that is where things like the Channel 4
:06:20. > :06:23.films that was shown last week, it was absolutely shocking in some of
:06:24. > :06:27.its content, it is important to do that. We need an international
:06:28. > :06:32.independent enquiry into what has happened in Sri Lanka. They set up
:06:33. > :06:37.their own internal enquiry which frankly was... Nothing has come of
:06:38. > :06:41.it, it was a bit of a figleaf. Do you think Sri Lanka should be in the
:06:42. > :06:44.Commonwealth? It is important that we use Commonwealth membership to
:06:45. > :06:48.enforce what should be shared values. We would not be calling for
:06:49. > :06:50.Sri Lanka to leave the Commonwealth, we want them to address human rights
:06:51. > :07:13.abuses. There are other we want them to address human rights
:07:14. > :07:16.were committed? It would be a reasonable first step because the
:07:17. > :07:20.media is awash with stories, some true and some not. It needs to be
:07:21. > :07:24.pot and some not. It needs to be buttoned out. -- bottomed out. The
:07:25. > :07:29.government has got to understand that the world will not turn away
:07:30. > :07:34.from this. Does it think it can get away with it? It does. They are
:07:35. > :07:38.saying we will suppress this for once and for all, we have beaten the
:07:39. > :07:42.Tamils and we will deal with the ethnic problem for the pit is also a
:07:43. > :07:45.problem for southern India. Now it's time for our daily quiz.
:07:46. > :07:54.They seem to be they seem to be pushy in what I
:07:55. > :07:57.would call a pseudo- genocidal policy.
:07:58. > :08:00.The question for today is, what has Conservative MP Nadhim Zahawi had to
:08:01. > :08:20.apologise for? Was it claiming Conservative MP Nadhim Zahawi had to
:08:21. > :08:25.have his duck house re-decorated? At the end of the show Michael will
:08:26. > :08:29.give us the correct answer. You wait for months, sometimes years
:08:30. > :08:33.for him to make a public statement - and then two come along in quick
:08:34. > :08:37.succession. I speak, of course, of the latest missive from former prime
:08:38. > :08:41.minister, John Major. Last month he had a go at the Government's record
:08:42. > :08:43.on cost of living. On Friday he addressed a Conservative Party
:08:44. > :08:46.association in Norfolk. Our correspondent, Gary O'Donohoe,
:08:47. > :08:53.wasn't there - but he's spoken to people who were - and joins us now.
:08:54. > :09:00.What did Sir John have to say for himself? Essentially he had a go
:09:01. > :09:06.about the state of social mobility in the country and he said it was
:09:07. > :09:10.truly maddening that the country was still run by what he described as
:09:11. > :09:28.the private school educated elite and the well-heeled middle class.
:09:29. > :09:32.the private school educated elite you doesn't think it is here. He
:09:33. > :09:37.also continues some of those themes -- he doesn't think it is here. He
:09:38. > :09:41.talks about the cripplingly low interest rate that pensioners are
:09:42. > :09:45.getting. He suggested interest rates ought to be raised so that
:09:46. > :09:50.pensioners get some returns on their savings. I think he would argue, and
:09:51. > :09:54.people have been arguing that he has not been silent, he has been saying
:09:55. > :09:59.these things at various points up and down the country. And perhaps
:10:00. > :10:05.there is a sense in which he is making these things more public. I
:10:06. > :10:11.was told that there was not unhappiness on his part, that there
:10:12. > :10:14.were reporters present on Friday. It does sound a little bit
:10:15. > :10:19.orchestrated, he is not going to give that sort of speech, laden with
:10:20. > :10:21.political points, unless it is going to be reported. What do you think he
:10:22. > :10:39.is up to be reported. What do you think he
:10:40. > :10:44.fault. The difficulty is that when you start using phrases like private
:10:45. > :10:47.school educated elite, it sort of feeds into a narrative of criticism
:10:48. > :10:52.that is already out feeds into a narrative of criticism
:10:53. > :10:56.of David Cameron and the people surrounding him and his Cabinet. It
:10:57. > :11:03.is not surprising, I don't think he would find it also -- all that
:11:04. > :11:10.surprising that it is regarded as a bit of blue on blue criticism as
:11:11. > :11:14.well. As the election approaches, former prime ministers believe they
:11:15. > :11:19.have some wisdom to impart. He doesn't forget that he pulled the
:11:20. > :11:24.iron out of the fire in 1992 and he won a Commons majority against all
:11:25. > :11:25.the odds in that election. He thinks it is still possible for the Tories
:11:26. > :11:50.to do that if they stop squabbling. it is still possible for the Tories
:11:51. > :11:54.privately educated? I couldn't agree more and I gave a speech at one of
:11:55. > :11:59.the country's leading public schools. It is not just politics, it
:12:00. > :12:05.is the BBC, it is banking, it is journalism. It is every sphere. What
:12:06. > :12:10.we are doing is inhibiting us as a country to compete on the global
:12:11. > :12:16.stage. Because we are drawing our expertise and our talent from a
:12:17. > :12:22.narrow pool of 7% of the country. What and who is to blame? There is
:12:23. > :12:26.no one particular person or measure, this is something which has
:12:27. > :12:31.been happening over a long period of time. I think the removal of grammar
:12:32. > :12:37.schools by the Labour Party and the destruction of them, almost, and to
:12:38. > :12:39.a degree, our lack of wanting to readopt the grammar school model. I
:12:40. > :12:59.came from a readopt the grammar school model. I
:13:00. > :13:08.conflicting evidence in how much grammar schools helped but the main
:13:09. > :13:10.-- main point made by John Major is it is their fault. The accept that?
:13:11. > :13:27.I don't. -- do you accept that? Under Labour, if you take
:13:28. > :13:35.education, labour narrowed the gap slightly in schools. They should
:13:36. > :13:42.have done more. It did but its long-term work is hard to shift. It
:13:43. > :13:45.depends on changes in society, it depends on people coming through
:13:46. > :13:48.schools, getting into universities and colleges. It all takes time. In
:13:49. > :14:11.13 years you can put down mercifully that wasn't incremented.
:14:12. > :14:16.I wish he had. No evidence that it increases social mobility.
:14:17. > :14:21.Scandinavian countries have come brands of education, they don't
:14:22. > :14:25.select at 11. They have a very different model over also it is
:14:26. > :14:30.wrong to use that as an example. Also under Labour, the gap between
:14:31. > :14:33.the rich and the poor grew massively and that certainly doesn't help
:14:34. > :14:36.social mobility. If that hadn't have happened, maybe there would have
:14:37. > :14:41.been more improvement in terms of social mobility. One of John
:14:42. > :14:45.Major's main points is that it is very difficult for anybody... I
:14:46. > :14:50.don't even believe Margaret Thatcher would make it to where she did. It
:14:51. > :14:53.is very difficult for anybody from the background that I came from and
:14:54. > :14:57.he came from, to look at industries like banking, journalism, the arts,
:14:58. > :15:17.the BBC, politics, and see a like banking, journalism, the arts,
:15:18. > :15:22.the people who are in those positions are picking like-minded,
:15:23. > :15:26.similar people. Undoubtedly, people with wealth and power tend to pass
:15:27. > :15:30.it on, they pass it onto their children. So, it is incredibly
:15:31. > :15:37.important to have routes through into the professions, as well as in
:15:38. > :15:42.wider society, and you do have to break up some of the closed shops.
:15:43. > :15:47.Can I just say, this is not just any particular party, this is across all
:15:48. > :15:51.parties. But do you not think John Major was having a go, looking at
:15:52. > :15:57.George Osborne, David Cameron and to select sent Nick Clegg? I think the
:15:58. > :16:01.problem at the top of all of the parties is that we do have a small
:16:02. > :16:04.group of people at the top who are all from a very similar background.
:16:05. > :16:07.In terms of grammar school education, you think it was this
:16:08. > :16:27.great key to success for education, you think it was this
:16:28. > :16:32.ultimately, the structural problem is the global boom of the 1980s and
:16:33. > :16:35.1990s, and you would think that where a global boom is more
:16:36. > :16:40.prevalent, that it would create more social mobility, but it tends not
:16:41. > :16:43.to, because it is the middle-class people who can use market forces
:16:44. > :16:49.more easily than others. Looking at Scandinavia, is it not the case that
:16:50. > :16:54.everybody, or a vast majority, go to the same schools, and therefore,
:16:55. > :16:58.that equalises their opportunities? It is only here in Britain where we
:16:59. > :17:03.have this flourishing private education, which does not help
:17:04. > :17:07.narrow the gap? In Scandinavia, you are talking about countries with a
:17:08. > :17:11.much smaller population, where the government in that country can
:17:12. > :17:15.identify and meet the needs of that population, because it is wealthier,
:17:16. > :17:17.in a far more effective way than we can do with 65 million people in the
:17:18. > :17:35.UK. can do with 65 million people in the
:17:36. > :17:41.the UK, it is very difficult to go back to the drawing board and turn
:17:42. > :17:44.it upside down and start again. Is that why we have seen so much focus
:17:45. > :17:52.on state education from politicians, because they are trying to turn that
:17:53. > :17:57.7% of the population going to private schools and
:17:58. > :18:02.disproportionately represented at Russell group universities... ? That
:18:03. > :18:09.is not the only issue. Vocational education is incredible --
:18:10. > :18:13.incredibly important, other routes into success are also important. But
:18:14. > :18:17.selecting at 11 makes it worse, because you are just tracking them
:18:18. > :18:20.from an early age. The kids with middle-class parents will just have
:18:21. > :18:25.more tuition when they are at primary school. But you cannot stop
:18:26. > :18:27.people doing that. You can't, but it is the state's job to make sure that
:18:28. > :18:47.all children frustrates me that 50% of them come
:18:48. > :18:53.from the private school set, but as we are the BBC, we want the very
:18:54. > :18:56.best. Fundamental problem is that we have to raise up state education to
:18:57. > :19:01.become trouble with that from the private sector. Do you think it is
:19:02. > :19:06.comparable yet? No, I do not, and I do not understand why not. When you
:19:07. > :19:09.going to a private school, apart from the structure of the buildings
:19:10. > :19:14.and the infrastructure, then what is taught is the same curriculum that
:19:15. > :19:16.we have in our state schools. Now, we have social problems, and in
:19:17. > :19:22.Germany, people reflect what they are taught more than they reflect
:19:23. > :19:26.their parenting. In the UK, children reflect their parenting more than
:19:27. > :19:29.their schooling. I think we need to step up to the plate and make
:19:30. > :19:34.schooling much more influential on the life of a child and drive up
:19:35. > :19:37.school standards. I would like to bring up a point which you made
:19:38. > :19:56.about the BBC, because I get loads have by virtue of their parents and
:19:57. > :20:00.their background and their connections. Do you think the
:20:01. > :20:04.Government is actually going to do anything about social mobility? They
:20:05. > :20:08.can do a certain amount, they can influence it, but ultimately, it
:20:09. > :20:14.seems to me that social mobility is created by bigger factors, like the
:20:15. > :20:17.way the economy works. Governments cannot create social mobility. The
:20:18. > :20:26.Labour Party tried but it did not make much difference. Our armed
:20:27. > :20:29.forces, particularly those who have been wounded or killed in the
:20:30. > :20:34.service of their country, are very much in our thoughts today. What was
:20:35. > :20:38.once a commemoration of people who fought in two world wars has now
:20:39. > :20:43.become a reflection on the conflicts of a more recent era. But how good
:20:44. > :20:46.are we at turning our tribute 's into practical support for Britain's
:20:47. > :21:07.servicemen and women? David Thompson reports.
:21:08. > :21:16.servicemen and women? David Thompson -- permanently maintained costume at
:21:17. > :21:21.-- permanently maintained? It is called the military covenant. The
:21:22. > :21:26.concept goes back to Elizabethan times, but had no basis in law,
:21:27. > :21:32.until this government introduced the Armed Forces Covenant, which
:21:33. > :21:35.includes things like reducing council tax for those on active
:21:36. > :21:41.service, and doubling welfare grants for families. There are now also
:21:42. > :21:44.community and corporate covenants so that private sector employers can do
:21:45. > :21:50.their bit as well. But does it go far enough? Very sadly, we still
:21:51. > :21:54.have people serving in our Armed Forces getting discriminated against
:21:55. > :21:56.in society. Clearly, that is appalling. We have got to look at
:21:57. > :22:16.how appalling. We have got to look at
:22:17. > :22:19.our country. While public support for the Armed Forces may be at an
:22:20. > :22:29.all-time high now, that might not always be the case. My concern is,
:22:30. > :22:33.will that supports decline as we see the withdrawal from Afghanistan, and
:22:34. > :22:37.the media spotlight fading, when actually, the needs of that group of
:22:38. > :22:41.people, and the support they are going to be calling on from
:22:42. > :22:44.donations and from organisations like the Royal British Legion, will
:22:45. > :22:49.begin to Newington be on the increase? But for all of the good
:22:50. > :22:55.intentions and warm words, is the covenant actually something tangible
:22:56. > :22:58.to those at the sharp end? If you are a soldier on the front line in
:22:59. > :23:02.Afghanistan, clearly that is not going to be at the forefront of your
:23:03. > :23:06.mind. But it does matter to our Armed Forces, that they are being
:23:07. > :23:06.properly looked after, that the covenant
:23:07. > :23:27.nation's gratitude to the Armed Forces is not in doubt. But what
:23:28. > :23:32.really counts is how we show it in the weeks, months and years to come.
:23:33. > :23:36.Michael Clarke is still with us. As the public's attitude changed
:23:37. > :23:42.towards the Armed Forces? Yes, I think it has. The public is behind
:23:43. > :23:46.those on the front line, but I think now they are much more sceptical
:23:47. > :23:51.about the military establishment as a whole, and politics behind it.
:23:52. > :23:54.There is a sense in which Iraq and Afghanistan have been regarded as
:23:55. > :23:58.campaigns which the public do not like very much, but they support the
:23:59. > :24:03.boys and girls who are having to do it. It is the wooden and batted
:24:04. > :24:07.effect, troops coming home in coffins, and everybody is very
:24:08. > :24:10.respectful, but it makes the troops into victims of government policy,
:24:11. > :24:16.and the troops themselves are not happy about that. They do not want
:24:17. > :24:16.to be seen as victims. They are instruments
:24:17. > :24:35.to be seen as victims. They are vast swathes of the population did
:24:36. > :24:39.not know about or did not care about? Absolutely, and at the
:24:40. > :24:43.moment, I think it is unprecedented. I have heard it said that the public
:24:44. > :24:48.have never been more sentimental about our Armed Forces than they are
:24:49. > :24:52.now. On the other hand, we should not assume that it is some sort of
:24:53. > :24:55.sporting event. They have got to understand that these are national
:24:56. > :25:01.interests, for good or bad, which are being pursued. The danger is
:25:02. > :25:05.that the glamour and the sentiment which goes into thinking about the
:25:06. > :25:12.Armed Forces takes the public away from what is it that they are
:25:13. > :25:15.fighting about? Interestingly, there is this difference between the
:25:16. > :25:18.personal and the political. What about once people have left the
:25:19. > :25:22.service, or finished their tour of duty, and go back into normal
:25:23. > :25:24.civilian life or digit is more than people think it should be, more
:25:25. > :25:44.difficult than most of us realise. lifetime will start to suffer some
:25:45. > :25:48.sort of battle stress. That will come out in all sorts of different
:25:49. > :25:52.ways. How does that manifested itself? It might just make somebody
:25:53. > :25:56.more difficult to live with, might make them more morose, it might give
:25:57. > :26:01.them other problems. It depends on the individual. Some people give up
:26:02. > :26:05.their lives, some people give up normal at either the rest of their
:26:06. > :26:08.lives, with injuries, but everybody gives up a little bit of their
:26:09. > :26:13.sanity when they are on operation. What about the covenant which was
:26:14. > :26:19.being spoken about there, coming back and wanting to buy a home, or
:26:20. > :26:26.just get another job, how hard is that? It varies. The services are
:26:27. > :26:29.now doing a lot more to ease that transition into civilian life. They
:26:30. > :26:34.are making a lot more benefits available, and trying to give people
:26:35. > :26:35.a lot more training. Having served in the forces,
:26:36. > :26:57.a lot more training. Having served been in garrison in Germany 20 years
:26:58. > :27:00.ago, say, having served in a war makes that transition more difficult
:27:01. > :27:09.than most of us might think. Thank you very much. Now, the trial is
:27:10. > :27:13.continuing of the former News International chief executive
:27:14. > :27:16.Rebekah Brooks and the Prime Minister's former communications
:27:17. > :27:20.chief Andy Coulson. Both face charges which they deny arising from
:27:21. > :27:26.the phone hacking affair. Our correspondent is outside the Old
:27:27. > :27:29.Bailey. What can you tell us? Day 11 of the proceedings this morning, and
:27:30. > :27:34.Rebekah Brooks arrived by taxi with her husband Charlie, and Andy
:27:35. > :27:39.Coulson arrived later, on his own, by foot. Those are three of the
:27:40. > :27:43.eight defendants on trial. Focus this morning from the prosecution
:27:44. > :28:01.has very much been on a story which appeared in the News of
:28:02. > :28:06.has very much been on a story which on the phone of a friend, Sally
:28:07. > :28:11.Anderson, in the autumn of 2005, in which he related very intimate
:28:12. > :28:15.details, white emotional. The jury heard him speaking. These messages
:28:16. > :28:19.were hacked by Glenn Mulcaire, the convicted phone hacker, who was
:28:20. > :28:24.working for the News of the World, and they will add to found -- they
:28:25. > :28:30.were later found on tapes in his house. David Blunkett says to Sally
:28:31. > :28:34.Anderson, a close friend, they are all being absolutely vile. I am
:28:35. > :28:39.really sorry. Someone is destroying both of our lives at this moment in
:28:40. > :28:44.time. It is absolutely vile. Whoever it is, I hope they rot in hell. In a
:28:45. > :28:50.second take, and if there are any children close by, he said, I do not
:28:51. > :28:52.know who has done this, but they are real bustards, he said in his
:28:53. > :29:12.distinctive Yorkshire accent. He real bustards, he said in his
:29:13. > :29:18.some of the notebooks which belonged to Glenn Mulcaire, the phone hacker,
:29:19. > :29:20.detailing these messages left to Sally Anderson, and in the top
:29:21. > :29:27.left-hand corner, as he did throughout all of his notebooks, he
:29:28. > :29:31.left a selection of names referring to the person who tasked him, in
:29:32. > :29:33.this case, Ian, meaning Ian Edmondson . all the people deny the
:29:34. > :29:42.charges. The Newspaper editors and
:29:43. > :29:44.politicians look to be at loggerheads over the regulation of
:29:45. > :29:48.the press. The Privy Council brought into force a Royal Charter on press
:29:49. > :29:51.regulation - but so far most national newspapers are refusing to
:29:52. > :29:54.have anything to do with it. But yesterday on the Sunday Politics
:29:55. > :29:58.programme, the Deputy Labour Leader, Harriet Harman, suggested that a
:29:59. > :29:59.deal could yet be done with the new regulator being set up by the
:30:00. > :30:22.newspaper industry. have turned people's lives upside
:30:23. > :30:27.down, and the press have said, we will to sort things out and leave it
:30:28. > :30:30.to us, they have sorted things out and a few years later they have
:30:31. > :30:34.slipped back. This recognisable check it once every six years and
:30:35. > :30:37.say, yes, you have got an independent system and it has
:30:38. > :30:42.remained independent, and therefore that is to guarantee that things
:30:43. > :30:48.will not slip back. That was deputy Labour leader Harriet Harman.
:30:49. > :30:52.Joining us now, two of Fleet Street's finest come out of the
:30:53. > :30:57.rain. Welcome to the programme. What do you make of Harriet Harman's
:30:58. > :31:03.comments, this softening of the line? It is interesting, the battle
:31:04. > :31:06.over press regulation that we saw during believe is an enquiry. --
:31:07. > :31:35.Turin be Leveson enquiry. could run, and they may not try,
:31:36. > :31:39.after a certain period of time, may not enforce the Royal Charter in its
:31:40. > :31:48.current state? That is what Harriet Harman seem to be suggestion and she
:31:49. > :31:55.has opened a can of worms. Hacked Off said it would be and come --
:31:56. > :31:57.said it would be incompatible. I imagine the remarks would be
:31:58. > :32:01.welcomed by most of the newspaper groups is a bit of an olive branch,
:32:02. > :32:05.that the government doesn't want to drive through more changes and
:32:06. > :32:11.statute -- sorry, that Labour does not want to. And that they will have
:32:12. > :32:16.a sit down and talk about how this might work in the future. A vicar
:32:17. > :32:17.camera is at risk of being criticised for not doing what he
:32:18. > :32:41.promised to do -- David Cameron is criticised for not doing what he
:32:42. > :32:45.parties and if it falls short, they will not be happy. It will take a
:32:46. > :32:49.long time to short out under think we are some way from seeing the
:32:50. > :32:52.final version. What is John Major up to? Talking about
:32:53. > :33:00.final version. What is John Major up worms, lobbying in grenades and the
:33:01. > :33:04.more like. Deliberately so? Apparently not, apparently being the
:33:05. > :33:08.keyword. One of the key points of this speech the private constituency
:33:09. > :33:12.dinner in Norfolk at the weekend was that we should carry out our battles
:33:13. > :33:15.behind closed doors within the Conservative Party. We shouldn't
:33:16. > :33:18.have these sorts of fights in public, as happened when he was
:33:19. > :33:25.prime minister, there was constant infighting played out on television
:33:26. > :33:30.and in the newspapers. He is saying it did not work then and it will not
:33:31. > :33:32.work now. Low and behold his remarks were leaked to the Telegraph and
:33:33. > :33:52.they are were leaked to the Telegraph and
:33:53. > :33:55.Number ten? Public -- publicly they will be saying he is allowed to
:33:56. > :34:01.intervene but what are they really thinking? It is interesting, they
:34:02. > :34:05.know they have to appeal to the blue-collar, Aspar and working-class
:34:06. > :34:14.voters, the sort of people who got John Major into Downing Street in
:34:15. > :34:17.1992 -- aspirational. They will be conscious that there is probably
:34:18. > :34:22.something in what John Major says and they need to reach out to new
:34:23. > :34:28.groups of voters. What danger is the NHS crisis? Potentially cute but
:34:29. > :34:34.however, they are prepared for it. In August -- potentially huge. The
:34:35. > :34:37.government set out ?250 million to get through the winter because they
:34:38. > :34:40.were anticipating a huge demand on the NHS. It is not helped that
:34:41. > :35:00.Labour are pushing the NHS. It is not helped that
:35:01. > :35:03.the Conservatives. Number ten are aware of it, worried about it but
:35:04. > :35:06.they are prepared for it. They are hoping that they will be able to get
:35:07. > :35:11.through the winter without some crisis exploding. Are you surprised
:35:12. > :35:14.by the level of political involvement in an issue which is
:35:15. > :35:20.supposed to run itself separate of political involvement? David Cameron
:35:21. > :35:23.spent so long before the last election trying to neutralise it as
:35:24. > :35:29.a political issue. To some extent he did. Absolutely but since then it
:35:30. > :35:34.has been a different story. We have had NHS reforms which has caused a
:35:35. > :35:37.coalition problem as well as a public one for David Cameron and he
:35:38. > :35:40.could be in for a long, hard winter if there are A problems. Thank you
:35:41. > :35:43.very much. It's a month since the Government
:35:44. > :35:47.rolled out its controversial "Help to Buy" scheme, which guarantees
:35:48. > :35:50.mortgages of up to 95% of the value of a property for those who can
:35:51. > :36:11.afford the repayments but can't afford a large deposit. The
:36:12. > :36:14.afford the repayments but can't Adam Shaw. Welcome to the programme.
:36:15. > :36:20.How easy is it to find affordable housing in this country? Not very,
:36:21. > :36:24.is what you will hear from a lot of people. As part of the programme we
:36:25. > :36:29.asked its asked Mori to conduct a survey of just over 1000 adults,
:36:30. > :36:33.asking them how much they spend on their housing and 31%, about a
:36:34. > :36:39.third, said they spent around a third of their disposable income on
:36:40. > :36:44.mortgage or rent. That is not just a number, it is very significant. If
:36:45. > :36:48.you talk to organisations like the Joseph Rowntree foundation, they say
:36:49. > :36:53.at precisely that point, housing becomes unaffordable. If you are
:36:54. > :36:56.spending that much, you can't afford other basic needs. We speak to
:36:57. > :36:59.people in the programme, people in employment who run out of food by
:37:00. > :37:00.the end of the week, because they have no extra spare cash.
:37:01. > :37:21.the end of the week, because they important to look at prices but also
:37:22. > :37:24.to look at affordability. If you go out into the country, a lot of
:37:25. > :37:30.people feel this is just unaffordable. On that issue, that is
:37:31. > :37:36.why the government has been so proud of what it is calling a success with
:37:37. > :37:39.Help to Buy, is it helping? This is a big question and not for a humble
:37:40. > :37:45.reporter to give you the answer. I can give you the evidence so other
:37:46. > :37:49.people can judge. Since it started, construction starts have gone up 6%.
:37:50. > :37:53.There is little evidence that I can see it is because of Help to Buy,
:37:54. > :37:58.but it certainly happened at that time. There are new figures about
:37:59. > :38:04.the second round of Help to Buy, it shows people are interested now,
:38:05. > :38:09.even more than in the first round. A lot of people say it could have the
:38:10. > :38:09.opposite effect. Because if you are encouraging people, enabling people
:38:10. > :38:28.to take out encouraging people, enabling people
:38:29. > :38:34.time, you have encouraged the bonds of people to take it -- bunch of
:38:35. > :38:38.people to take debt that they can afford now but not in the future. If
:38:39. > :38:42.it is pushing up housing starts and prices, what you might be doing is
:38:43. > :38:47.moving the affordability of homes, not closer to poorer people but
:38:48. > :38:53.further away, because you are boosting demand without being able
:38:54. > :38:59.to get supply up quickly enough. Joining me now are three people who
:39:00. > :39:02.want to become MPs, God help them. Clarence Mitchell, who will be
:39:03. > :39:04.fighting the Brighton Pavilion seat for the Conservatives, Rowenna
:39:05. > :39:07.Davies, who is contesting Southampton Itchen for Labour and
:39:08. > :39:10.Maajid Nawaz who will be the Lib Dem candidate in Hampstead Kilburn.
:39:11. > :39:17.Welcome to the programme. Clarence Mitchell, what are the risks of this
:39:18. > :39:19.fuelling another credit bust? We believe it is all about empowering
:39:20. > :39:37.hard-working people to get onto believe it is all about empowering
:39:38. > :39:43.independence and self-reliance and the aspiration in being able to own
:39:44. > :39:48.their own home. We have heard the figures are working, Help to Buy is
:39:49. > :39:53.delivering. Some 2000 access and is is in principle, three other than
:39:54. > :40:03.?65 million in mortgage applications being processed -- 2000 accidents --
:40:04. > :40:06.acceptances. I applaud the Conservatives for wanting to deal
:40:07. > :40:10.with the housing crisis in this country. I don't think it is up to
:40:11. > :40:15.the scale of the problem because of the housing supply shortage that we
:40:16. > :40:20.have. At the moment, only ten of these deals have gone through. There
:40:21. > :40:26.is a real problem that it will cause a housing bubble. The bubble was the
:40:27. > :40:28.cause of a crash in the first place and that is exactly what we want to
:40:29. > :40:49.avoid. Do and that is exactly what we want to
:40:50. > :40:54.East when inflation is much higher foot I can't afford a home in London
:40:55. > :40:58.and I am renting in London. The two problems are that house prices are
:40:59. > :41:02.too high, and that what happens as a result is that rent prices are too
:41:03. > :41:04.high. If you help people to buy, you increase the price of houses and
:41:05. > :41:10.that means that more people cannot buy. We have to increase the supply
:41:11. > :41:14.of housing. This government has built 190,000 new houses at Danny
:41:15. > :41:17.Alexander has announced in the next Parliament, 3 billion will be
:41:18. > :41:21.injected to build new houses. The other is to help people to buy
:41:22. > :41:26.houses. The boy like me and most of us who can't afford houses in
:41:27. > :41:34.London. This is the jilted generation -- people like me and
:41:35. > :41:38.most of us who can't afford. Would you say it is a problem if all you
:41:39. > :41:57.do is help people to pump up their mortgages, but you don't create
:41:58. > :41:59.is the exact cause of the crisis. For generations, owning your own
:42:00. > :42:03.home on a mortgage has been a great British aspiration, it gives people
:42:04. > :42:08.hope for the future, it gives them an asset which increases in value.
:42:09. > :42:14.Assets are increases in in the south-east but in some parts the
:42:15. > :42:19.valuations have crashed. The rising economy, driven by the construction
:42:20. > :42:22.sector, building new homes, will ultimately lead to a stability in
:42:23. > :42:26.the market where there is more affordability. The crisis has been
:42:27. > :42:29.decades in the making, it has not just happened during this
:42:30. > :42:33.Parliament. One of my best is to get to the bottom of this while making
:42:34. > :42:39.it affordable for people to buy homes. One of the ways suggested in
:42:40. > :42:46.preventing a housing boom and bubble is for interest rates to go up
:42:47. > :42:49.should they go up next year? If you raise them it has a knock-on effect
:42:50. > :43:07.on people's mortgages and it can slow down
:43:08. > :43:11.on people's mortgages and it can clearing up the mess of the last 13
:43:12. > :43:14.years of economic mismanagement. Interest rates are independently set
:43:15. > :43:17.but they should stay as low as possible for as long as possible, to
:43:18. > :43:27.enable more people to have more money. Should they stay as low as
:43:28. > :43:31.possible? The answer is to build more houses. Everyone is agreed but
:43:32. > :43:36.it is the rate at which they are going to be built. The financial
:43:37. > :43:40.policy committee is going to monitor this situation. We cannot renew this
:43:41. > :43:49.policy until they give the green light for it. That is another safety
:43:50. > :43:53.against the crisis. A quarter of people are trading up, they are not
:43:54. > :43:57.first-time buyers, should those be the people you are helping, too?
:43:58. > :44:17.Whelping the majority who it seems first-time buyers,
:44:18. > :44:20.Whelping the majority who it seems available to people buying homes --
:44:21. > :44:24.who are buying homes worth ?600,000. I home worth over half a million is
:44:25. > :44:29.very unlikely to be bought by a hard-working family in this
:44:30. > :44:34.country. Should it be valued up to ?600,000, it is a substantial amount
:44:35. > :44:37.of money. In the south-east houses are overinflated in their value and
:44:38. > :44:41.I think the solution is to drastically increase supply for
:44:42. > :44:47.housing. Are the right people being help? People will say it is a bribe
:44:48. > :44:52.to say, we will help you buy your home, vote Conservative or Lib Dem.
:44:53. > :44:55.This is about helping young individuals who want to have their
:44:56. > :45:00.own home and they can now make it possible because we can make the
:45:01. > :45:02.deposit basis affordable. The safeguard is the financial policy
:45:03. > :45:06.committee which will be monitoring to avoid that type of scenario and
:45:07. > :45:25.it cannot be renewed until they give the go-ahead.
:45:26. > :45:30.it cannot be renewed until they give and emergency units. Last week,
:45:31. > :45:35.senior consultants said A departments were facing what may be
:45:36. > :45:42.our worst winter yet. How big an issue is the NHS with your
:45:43. > :45:46.constituents? It is huge. We have got Kilburn High Road which has, I
:45:47. > :45:51.would say, a disproportionate amount of people who rely on the social
:45:52. > :45:57.services. We have got a heavy immigrant population there. I have
:45:58. > :46:04.used those clinics myself, I have depended on them. So they should not
:46:05. > :46:08.have closed? No, I agree with the chair of the Association, who said,
:46:09. > :46:13.the problem was, when the primary care trust areas were carved up,
:46:14. > :46:18.these walk-in clinics were allocated arbitrarily in accordance with those
:46:19. > :46:36.areas. What should have happened instead was
:46:37. > :46:37.areas. What should have happened it was a mistake to close them? In
:46:38. > :46:41.individual cases, I am sure there were good reasons why it happened.
:46:42. > :46:49.Of course there is a need for people to have good quality A care. We
:46:50. > :46:55.accept that. But there were some concerns about educational services
:46:56. > :46:59.in some cases. But essentially, the Conservatives are working with NHS
:47:00. > :47:05.England to make sure that services are tailored to the needs of the
:47:06. > :47:10.local community. ?3.8 billion is being put towards a fund to join up
:47:11. > :47:14.health and care services properly. Walk-in centres may be part of the
:47:15. > :47:20.answer, that they are not a one size fits all solution. Family GPs and
:47:21. > :47:23.pharmacists all play their part. Do you accept that Labour must take
:47:24. > :47:44.response of validity for those GP contracts, which means there
:47:45. > :47:47.response of validity for those GP contract which they had signed? We
:47:48. > :47:52.are going to look at those contracts. But with these walk-in
:47:53. > :47:56.centres being shut, one quarter of those people who would have gone to
:47:57. > :48:01.those centres are going to end up in A The Conservatives will say that
:48:02. > :48:05.perhaps there is educational services, but when I am in
:48:06. > :48:09.Southampton, people say, I try and go to my GP, but I cannot get an
:48:10. > :48:13.appointment, which is why those walk-in centres are so crucial. That
:48:14. > :48:22.is why we want to expand the role of GPs, along with pharmacists. I have
:48:23. > :48:26.tried to phone the GP in the morning, you are given a 15 minute
:48:27. > :48:32.slot to make an appointment, and obviously, the phone is off the hook
:48:33. > :48:34.constantly. GPs need to be incentivised to provide online,
:48:35. > :48:36.telephone and flexible hours and service, but those contracts need to
:48:37. > :48:58.be service, but those contracts need to
:48:59. > :49:01.winter coming, but what about the problem at the other end of the
:49:02. > :49:05.scale, which is that people are not being discharged properly, because
:49:06. > :49:11.there is nowhere to discharge them to come particularly old people, and
:49:12. > :49:16.this is clogging up the system in A? All of this needs to be looked
:49:17. > :49:21.at. I have read the conclusions in this research, and also some of the
:49:22. > :49:26.GP advice, and on the whole, I think it is sensible. I would encourage
:49:27. > :49:32.the ministers to take a serious look at that and implement some of the
:49:33. > :49:37.solutions, because they are quite sensible. Andy Burnham has said that
:49:38. > :49:39.what we really need is the proper integration of health and social
:49:40. > :49:44.care, and I think the parties need to get around the table and say, we
:49:45. > :50:03.need a consensus on joining up the system. I think there is
:50:04. > :50:08.need a consensus on joining up the indication from Labour not that they
:50:09. > :50:12.do not like... ? My understanding, from speaking to Andy Burnham, is
:50:13. > :50:16.that once particular contracts come to an end, they will not be renewed.
:50:17. > :50:22.It is not like a full-scale dismantling of the system. What do
:50:23. > :50:25.you say to people when you are speaking to them, why did we have
:50:26. > :50:30.this top-down reorganisation, we did not vote for it? One of the few
:50:31. > :50:38.policy areas which was ring fenced in terms of funding was the NHS. The
:50:39. > :50:42.NHS is safe in Conservative hands. Have you seen the targets, have you
:50:43. > :50:50.seen the waiting time lists, homely people are waiting in A? Process
:50:51. > :50:54.and bureaucracy and some of the layers of management need to be
:50:55. > :51:13.dealt with. We put patient care at the heart of everything we do.
:51:14. > :51:16.dealt with. We put patient care at solution going forward? That would
:51:17. > :51:19.be helpful. The problem is the confusion that these reforms have
:51:20. > :51:27.caused. A lot of these walk-in clinics do not know what is going to
:51:28. > :51:34.be happened to them. -- happening. Walk-in clinics are an important
:51:35. > :51:39.area, but they are not a one size fits all solution. There are 650 of
:51:40. > :51:42.them, and my guests will hope to join this prestigious grouping,
:51:43. > :51:47.members of Parliament. But their path to power is not always smooth
:51:48. > :51:51.as shown in Falkirk. So, how do you get selected? The process of
:51:52. > :51:55.becoming an MP is a long one. Everybody must do battle with others
:51:56. > :51:58.from their own party to get selected in the first place. In the
:51:59. > :52:04.Conservatives under Liberal Democrats, you have to go through an
:52:05. > :52:23.assessment process in order to get onto a centrally
:52:24. > :52:26.elected by local party members, where the endorsement of a union
:52:27. > :52:35.could improve your chances of success. But it is no guarantee.
:52:36. > :52:41.Rowenna Davis, how did you get selected? By working really hard.
:52:42. > :52:45.The selection process is essentially a two-month public interview. I got
:52:46. > :52:49.on my bike and cycled around two Labour Party member after Labour
:52:50. > :52:52.Party member, sat in their homes and listened to their hopes and their
:52:53. > :52:57.fears, talked about what I believed in and stood for, went back and
:52:58. > :53:01.wrote handwritten letters to them, hours and hours of campaigning in
:53:02. > :53:05.the rain, until you build up to this massive hustings, where you have a
:53:06. > :53:09.huge public debate and an election for the candidate in question. It
:53:10. > :53:13.was a fantastic day, it is a really good example of old-fashioned
:53:14. > :53:32.democracy more on that day. We have the highest turnout of any selection
:53:33. > :53:34.democracy more on that day. We have constituents and to the
:53:35. > :53:38.association. The associations are hypercritical about the people they
:53:39. > :53:42.are going to have representing them in Parliament. It is absolutely
:53:43. > :53:46.proper that you do come through this scrap to get there. I did my
:53:47. > :53:52.Parliamentary assessment board back in 2009, and here I am, nearly six
:53:53. > :53:57.years later, having gone through this process, and still standing.
:53:58. > :54:03.You clearly all want it very badly, which is something, but how much
:54:04. > :54:07.does it cost? For me, the only thing was the transport, knocking on every
:54:08. > :54:13.single member's door. My constituency is the narrowest
:54:14. > :54:19.marginal in the country. I had to knock on every member's door. First
:54:20. > :54:22.time around, I failed. They selected somebody who then took a job
:54:23. > :54:23.somewhere else and had to move out of the area, and I went for it
:54:24. > :54:42.again. of the area, and I went for it
:54:43. > :54:45.interests. They are not bedazzled by Star TV quality. And that is
:54:46. > :54:49.something to be proud of. Because you have all got a public profile in
:54:50. > :55:00.one way or another, so did that help, in some way? It is a help and
:55:01. > :55:08.a hindrance. Every constituency wants a star, somebody who will
:55:09. > :55:13.shine out, who will go on The Daily Politics and speak for them.
:55:14. > :55:16.Indeed. But at the same time it can be a hindrance, because we know
:55:17. > :55:21.there is a huge amount of suspicion in politics at the moment, and
:55:22. > :55:25.stereotypes and suspicions about whether you have been centrally
:55:26. > :55:30.parachuted in. You have to work very hard to say, no, actually, it is
:55:31. > :55:33.just me and my bike. I would agree with that. Yes, in my case, Brighton
:55:34. > :55:53.has got a media economy, it is a with that. Yes, in my case, Brighton
:55:54. > :55:58.you are not in it for yourself. And Labour got into a mess in Falkirk.
:55:59. > :56:02.Yes, and that proves that machine politics does not work. What works
:56:03. > :56:07.is going door-to-door and earning the trust people individually. It is
:56:08. > :56:11.quite interesting how far the Labour Party has gone in the wake of
:56:12. > :56:15.Falkirk to change the way these processes are run. Introducing an
:56:16. > :56:20.open primary for London is a massive thing. That is for the mayoralty,
:56:21. > :56:23.and for some Parliamentary seats as well. What has happened to open
:56:24. > :56:32.primary is? That was hailed as the great hope of politics and it has
:56:33. > :56:37.gone. It has not gone, we have had Hampstead and things like that, it
:56:38. > :56:40.was never going to completely take over. It is ultimately down to the
:56:41. > :57:02.individual associations to run their contest the way they see fit. And
:57:03. > :57:07.powers that be, that you get outspoken views wanted yes, the
:57:08. > :57:10.powers that he can speak for themselves, but some associations
:57:11. > :57:15.feel it is the right way forward, giving them a wider mandate, but
:57:16. > :57:18.others are happy to stick to the traditional route, which is an
:57:19. > :57:23.internal special general meeting, which votes on the candidates. In
:57:24. > :57:29.terms of the people putting themselves forward, Conservative MP
:57:30. > :57:33.Douglas Carswell said a tiny clique of people are entering politics, and
:57:34. > :57:37.the Liberal Democrats are struggling particularly to get that range if
:57:38. > :57:42.you like of ethnic minority candidates and women, so do you
:57:43. > :57:48.agree with him? A lot more can be done, but here I am. I hope
:57:49. > :57:51.hopefully I will be the first parliamentarian to speak fluent
:57:52. > :58:13.Arabic, a lot is changing. parliamentarian to speak fluent
:58:14. > :58:21.Politics quiz, and what has he had to apologise for, can you remember?
:58:22. > :58:24.I cannot remember the exact amount, but well done for getting that
:58:25. > :58:30.right. Are you worried about the thought of expenses rearing its ugly
:58:31. > :58:34.head again? When I get a stable, I will worry about it. I think MPs
:58:35. > :58:38.realise that there was a period when things were done within the rules
:58:39. > :58:44.but for the wrong reasons, in the sense that they felt they were not
:58:45. > :58:47.properly compensated. The way to go is what Sarah did, she paid for
:58:48. > :58:53.everything herself, and hats to her for that. Thank you to all of my
:58:54. > :59:01.guests today. I will be here again tomorrow. Bye-bye.