:00:36. > :00:39.Good morning, this is the Daily Politics. Plans to re-organise the
:00:40. > :00:42.army come under fire from conservative backbenchers. The
:00:43. > :00:46.Defence Secretary's less than happy. He thinks they're putting the army
:00:47. > :00:49.at risk and flirting with the enemy. We'll be talking to the Mutineer in
:00:50. > :00:52.Chief. Shocking revelations this week about
:00:53. > :00:56.Labour. No, I'm not talking about the Chairman of the Co-operative
:00:57. > :00:59.Bank. The two Eds have never been to the pub together.
:01:00. > :01:04.Most people want to play the property game. Trouble is, a lot
:01:05. > :01:11.can't afford to. We'll be talking to one man who thinks cutting stamp
:01:12. > :01:13.duty could help. And we'll be explaining why the good
:01:14. > :01:27.people of Hull are celebrating. All that and more in the next 90
:01:28. > :01:29.minutes. Including Prime Minister's Questions. And with us for the
:01:30. > :01:32.duration, two men described as Westminster's fiercest attack dogs -
:01:33. > :01:41.Conservative Party Chairman, Grant "Rottweiller" Shapps and Labour's
:01:42. > :01:49.own pit bull, Michael Dugher. They look quite cuddly to me. Not as
:01:50. > :01:52.cuddly as Molly. Welcome to the Daily Politics kennel. Now, first
:01:53. > :01:56.this morning, let's talk about the army because Conservative MP John
:01:57. > :01:59.Baron is a leading a small troop of fellow Tory MPs in a rebel amendment
:02:00. > :02:03.to the Defence Reform Bill aimed at halting plans to increase the size
:02:04. > :02:12.of the reservist force from 19,000 to 30,000 by 2018. The Government
:02:13. > :02:15.wants to increase the number of reservists to help fill the gap
:02:16. > :02:26.created by cuts to the regular army, which is being shrunk by 20% over
:02:27. > :02:28.eight years. It is going down from around 102,000 to around 80,000.
:02:29. > :02:32.This morning Philip Hammond had this warning for anyone wanting to pause
:02:33. > :02:38.the recruitment of reservists. If it was carried, it would prevent us
:02:39. > :02:43.from rolling out the offer that we are making for reserve first stash
:02:44. > :02:48.better pension, allowances and training, investment in kit, and
:02:49. > :02:51.that would be damaging. I am very much up for a debate about how we
:02:52. > :02:58.are managing the reserve list programme. Parliament is interested,
:02:59. > :03:06.I would expect to be scrutinised, but I do not think that pausing that
:03:07. > :03:11.programme in anybody's interest. we hope to speak to the Tory rebel,
:03:12. > :03:18.John Baron, but we seem to have lost him at the moment. So I will come to
:03:19. > :03:22.you, Grant Shapps. Isn't the problem that the Government has started to
:03:23. > :03:30.cut the size of the regular army but not yet increased the size of the
:03:31. > :03:39.reservists, reservist recruitment is falling. There is a ?38 billion
:03:40. > :03:47.black hole in the defence budget, when we came to power, you have to
:03:48. > :03:49.do something about it. There is an argument between you about the size
:03:50. > :03:54.of the black hole, but that was capital spending. To keep the troops
:03:55. > :04:00.is current spending. We have to run the country and afford what we are
:04:01. > :04:05.doing. We might have the fourth biggest defence in the world, but
:04:06. > :04:13.these days you need drone 's, technical equipment, things like the
:04:14. > :04:15.massive aircraft carriers, which are massive investments in themselves.
:04:16. > :04:21.Wars are not necessarily fought in the same way with boots on the
:04:22. > :04:27.ground, but increasing number of reservists, which used to be called
:04:28. > :04:31.the TA. Now is not the time to have a vote in the Commons which prevents
:04:32. > :04:35.the second part, which is all the vote would do, prevent us from
:04:36. > :04:42.recruiting the reservists, which would be. We know you can cut the
:04:43. > :04:45.army, governments of both political persuasions have done that for
:04:46. > :04:50.years. We have no way of knowing that you can increase the
:04:51. > :04:54.reservists, particularly because you will be asking them to do more and
:04:55. > :04:58.be better trained than the old Territorial Army, meaning employers
:04:59. > :05:02.need to give them more time. You can't guarantee you can deliver.
:05:03. > :05:09.There are no absolute guarantees in life. The army can be an incredible
:05:10. > :05:13.career. For reservists, they can be of enormous benefit to the
:05:14. > :05:16.businesses employing them. I think businesses want the skills that
:05:17. > :05:24.allow releasing them to be reservists will bring back. This
:05:25. > :05:29.vote today is completely the wrong thing, simply for the reason that we
:05:30. > :05:35.are set on this trajectory, the Army has accepted it, they have already
:05:36. > :05:42.scaled back... the Army has no choice but to accept it, we live
:05:43. > :05:51.under democratic control. It is not Labour policy to keep the regular
:05:52. > :05:54.army at 100,000? We built it up to over 100,000. Grant Shapps was a
:05:55. > :05:58.little confused. The government themselves have said they are not
:05:59. > :06:02.making these changes for reasons of finance but for proper defence
:06:03. > :06:07.reasons. We support these reforms, but all that is happening today, and
:06:08. > :06:11.I think Philip and has mishandled this, all of us in Parliament have a
:06:12. > :06:15.duty to the armed forces and defence, to make sure these
:06:16. > :06:24.important changes go through and are manageable and feasible. It is all
:06:25. > :06:30.right, but it is boilerplate. Under Labour, there would still be a curt
:06:31. > :06:39.of around 82,000 in the Army, you would it attempt to hire these
:06:40. > :06:43.reserve lists. -- there would be a cut to around 82,000 of the regular
:06:44. > :06:50.army, and you would attempt to hire these reservists. We are getting
:06:51. > :06:55.political criticism for doing this. It would be much more convenient
:06:56. > :06:59.just to let it go through. But your Conservative former Defence
:07:00. > :07:04.Secretary, only a couple of years ago, in my view, rightly, said you
:07:05. > :07:10.cannot basically cut of the regular forces without having a very clear,
:07:11. > :07:17.robust, transparent policy... You are saying the same thing. You are
:07:18. > :07:21.voting against your own policy. Philip Hammond has refused to come
:07:22. > :07:26.to the house to provide assurances... We have not had those
:07:27. > :07:39.reinsurer service, that is all we are asking for -- we have not
:07:40. > :07:43.heard... Had those reassurances. Since U2 are dancing on the head of
:07:44. > :07:49.a pin, let's go over to somebody who disagrees with you. -- since new two
:07:50. > :07:57.are dancing. John Baron, what are you trying to achieve? Paws on the
:07:58. > :08:04.Army recruitment plans generally, because we want time for Parliament
:08:05. > :08:09.to scrutinise the cost effectiveness and viability of these plans. Time
:08:10. > :08:18.to pause, it needn't be a long delay, but the bottom line is,
:08:19. > :08:23.pause, because so many things are going wrong. We have to check
:08:24. > :08:28.whether the plan stacks up. We have widening capability gaps, rising
:08:29. > :08:31.costs, reservist recruitment targets being badly missed, and that is
:08:32. > :08:36.before we talk about the Herculean assumptions within the plans to make
:08:37. > :08:43.the Army reserve ironwork. What you to Philip Hammond 's response to
:08:44. > :08:47.what you are doing? He says you are doing down morale against the
:08:48. > :08:52.reserve forces, and as a former Army officer you should know better than
:08:53. > :08:57.most that any pause will leave a serious hole in our defence? There
:08:58. > :09:02.are no shortage of scare stories. We have been told we are trying to
:09:03. > :09:06.scupper the plans, we are trying to create Victorian age armies. All
:09:07. > :09:13.untrue. Two years ago there was a very simple plan. Hold on to the
:09:14. > :09:20.regulars until these reservists can take their place. Now it has
:09:21. > :09:22.changed, we have an increasing capability gap between letting the
:09:23. > :09:28.regulars go and recruiting reservists. With these amendments,
:09:29. > :09:37.if successful, we are saying, let's pause and re-examine the plan, let's
:09:38. > :09:41.make sure it stop up -- stacks up. When you say you want to re-examine
:09:42. > :09:48.the plans, is that because you want to stop cuts to the Army's forces?
:09:49. > :09:52.The debate today is about the reserves. At the regulars to one
:09:53. > :09:57.side. A great bar of them have gone already. Recruitment of the regulars
:09:58. > :10:04.is much easier than recruitment to the reserves stop let's pause on the
:10:05. > :10:09.Army Reserve plans for a short period, examine these rising costs,
:10:10. > :10:16.which could lead to false economies, examine the poorer recruitment
:10:17. > :10:18.record which could lead to widening capability gaps. Parliament should
:10:19. > :10:23.be scrutinising decisions that increasingly look flawed and that
:10:24. > :10:32.they might lead to false economies. That is what we are trying to do.
:10:33. > :10:37.How much support you have? About 25 colleagues had signed on the
:10:38. > :10:40.Conservative side. I understand Labour will support this amendment.
:10:41. > :10:45.They have supported our previous debates on this, general debates.
:10:46. > :10:48.There was a general debate only three or four weeks ago at the
:10:49. > :10:53.Government could not muster one single vote on it side because it's
:10:54. > :10:59.refused to answer questions. They have not come up with the answers,
:11:00. > :11:04.that is why we are in this position. We have asked them to put a stop to
:11:05. > :11:08.their plans for a short period while Parliament scrutinises things and
:11:09. > :11:16.plans carefully on behalf of the taxpayer but also on behalf the
:11:17. > :11:21.country. Thank you very much. You couldn't make it up even if you
:11:22. > :11:25.were a fiction writer. The scandal that has been unfolding this week
:11:26. > :11:31.about the former Co-op Bank chief, the Reverend Paul Flowers, embroiled
:11:32. > :11:34.in a rent boys and drugs scandal involving the bank, the Methodist
:11:35. > :11:39.Church and the Labour Party. But that is not the only thing that has
:11:40. > :11:42.been troubling Labour this week. Trouble's brewing at Labour HQ at
:11:43. > :11:45.Brewers Green. Every home brewer knows that getting the fermentation
:11:46. > :11:49.right is key to success, No extremes or variations. Everyone working
:11:50. > :11:53.together. But Labour are not getting it at all right at the moment.
:11:54. > :12:00.Leaked e-mails show that there's trouble at the top between the two
:12:01. > :12:03.Eds, Miliband and Balls. And then there's the shocking news that
:12:04. > :12:08.they've never even been to the pub together. What do they do? Pint of
:12:09. > :12:11.bitter, anyone? So will the new head brewer, Spencer Livermore, serve up
:12:12. > :12:13.an enticing mix? He's taking charge of Labour's general election
:12:14. > :12:15.preparations but his appointment effectively sidelines the party's
:12:16. > :12:24.general secretary, Iain McNicol, who's so unhappy he's apparently not
:12:25. > :12:27.talking to Ed Miliband. Add to the keg the ales of Paul Flowers, the
:12:28. > :12:30.former Chairman of the Co-operative Bank, and it's no surprise that the
:12:31. > :12:34.Labour party are struggling to come up with a brew they can palate
:12:35. > :12:38.themselves, let alone sell to the general public. So is it worse than
:12:39. > :12:45.flat. Is it downright bitter? Joining me now is Atul Hatwal, the
:12:46. > :12:54.editor of Labour Uncut. Welcome to the programme. How bad is
:12:55. > :12:59.it between the two Eds? It is not at the level of Tony Blair and Gordon
:13:00. > :13:03.Brown, but it is difficult and deteriorating. The personalities are
:13:04. > :13:10.bashing, are substantive policy differences. This is quite a serious
:13:11. > :13:13.fault line. It is an open secret that they do not agree on
:13:14. > :13:18.everything. If they can't find agreement over substance, is this
:13:19. > :13:25.more important than agreement on personality? You have to get on with
:13:26. > :13:29.the people you work with, you don't have two get on with them but you
:13:30. > :13:36.have to have a decent working relationship. There is an open
:13:37. > :13:46.secret that the teams, more than the individuals, are at loggerheads. One
:13:47. > :13:49.of the things Ed Miliband wanted to do at the start of his leadership
:13:50. > :13:53.was to express contrition for what he perceives as one of the past
:13:54. > :14:09.public spending stakes for the last Labour government. Ed Balls was not
:14:10. > :14:13.his first choice. Ed Balls has vetoed this, absolutely not, the
:14:14. > :14:18.focus has to be on the Tories are not on the public spending plans.
:14:19. > :14:24.That is a... An important distinction. Despite everything with
:14:25. > :14:32.Cameron and Osborne ahead of Miliband and balls in the polling, I
:14:33. > :14:39.think the fallout from that disagreement is coming through. Does
:14:40. > :14:44.that mean he is trying to shore up his side and support his team by
:14:45. > :14:49.bringing in Spencer Livermore? Spencer Livermore is a very
:14:50. > :14:56.interesting appointment. There was a very famous falling out in 2007 over
:14:57. > :15:01.the election that never was. Spencer Livermore 's appointment says that
:15:02. > :15:04.Ed Balls will be on the outside loop during the general election
:15:05. > :15:08.campaign, and particularly interesting is that if, when looking
:15:09. > :15:13.at the succession for the Labour Party and who might be the next
:15:14. > :15:17.leader, Yvette Cooper is the current favourite, Ed Balls' Y. She
:15:18. > :15:22.potentially won't have a prominent role in the election campaign that
:15:23. > :15:24.she might have done otherwise. The Spencer Livermore campaigners Ed
:15:25. > :15:38.Miliband taking control of Labour HQ. Let's go back to the Co-op
:15:39. > :15:42.Bank. When Labour knew the real reasons Paul Flowers had to resign,
:15:43. > :15:51.why did it not inform the Co-op group? Well, I'm not aware that we
:15:52. > :15:56.did know what was going on. The Labour Party in Bradford discovered
:15:57. > :16:01.it and in London they knew about it. I knew it was part of a
:16:02. > :16:08.deteriorating situation. I'm not sure that is correct, I don't know
:16:09. > :16:15.if Labour nationally new one -- what had gone on. We were shocked when we
:16:16. > :16:23.saw the reports, which is why we acted immediately to suspend him. Is
:16:24. > :16:27.there not a case for investigating a cover-up, because Mr Flowers was
:16:28. > :16:45.instrumental in staffing Labour's coppers with Josh? -- coffers with
:16:46. > :16:52.dosh? He meets Mr Miliband on March the 6th this year and in April, 1.2
:16:53. > :16:57.million is given to the Labour Party at a very good interest rate. And
:16:58. > :17:00.then end of a 1.2 million at the same time is given from a trust
:17:01. > :17:05.which is effectively part of the Co-op Bank. You telling me there is
:17:06. > :17:15.no connection? We've had a relationship with the Co-op movement
:17:16. > :17:17.for 100 years. We bank with them. Thousands of businesses and he was
:17:18. > :17:26.watching this programme bank with them. But you are happy to be cosy
:17:27. > :17:32.with a man who by this time was clearly a flawed character. This was
:17:33. > :17:41.a man who to all intents and purposes was a method minister --
:17:42. > :17:50.Methodist minister. The Tories were all over the Co-op is like a cheap
:17:51. > :17:56.coat six months ago. We took the sky at face value. He was a church
:17:57. > :18:12.minister. You had a cosy relationship will stop -- with Paul
:18:13. > :18:14.Flowers. Why did Ed Miliband put him on their business Council when it
:18:15. > :18:22.was clear he had no knowledge of business? He was chairman of a
:18:23. > :18:28.bank, we didn't know about his allegations of criminality. He was
:18:29. > :18:34.chairman of a bank who did not even know what the balance sheet was. But
:18:35. > :18:40.we didn't know about any of these allegations. This appeared in a
:18:41. > :18:46.select committee. When asked what was on the balance sheet, he said 3
:18:47. > :18:49.billion. Turns out it was 47 billion. Why would you put someone
:18:50. > :18:56.on an advisory council for business like that? We have all kinds of the
:18:57. > :19:00.ball on these councils. I would rather have a relationship with the
:19:01. > :19:07.Co-op Bank then all these shadowy businesses. The Co-op is now owned
:19:08. > :19:13.by hedge funds, 70%. You cannot compare the Co-op Hank historically
:19:14. > :19:22.to those banks that destroyed the economy. You are talking about the
:19:23. > :19:27.serious allegations this weekend - the moment we were aware of that we
:19:28. > :19:39.acted and we suspended him from the party. And now you have a bank
:19:40. > :19:46.account owned by hedge funds. Egg balls got ?50,000 as well. An
:19:47. > :19:55.unprecedented amount. How is that unprecedented? He got ?50,000 to his
:19:56. > :20:02.office. We've not had anything from the Co-op Bank in over a year, by
:20:03. > :20:05.the way. Nothing like the scale that was going to conservative offices
:20:06. > :20:13.before. It was consistent with the rules. People get donations all the
:20:14. > :20:23.time. Who else has got 50,000 from the Co-op? I'm not aware, but what
:20:24. > :20:29.is your point? There is no significance to it. Why did Mr
:20:30. > :20:35.Miliband's office regarded as a nightmare? This was adapt e-mail
:20:36. > :20:45.from someone you should have known better. -- a daft email. I lived
:20:46. > :20:49.through the interesting relationship between Gordon Brown and Tony
:20:50. > :20:55.Blair. You cannot compare it. I work with Ed Balls and Ed Miliband very
:20:56. > :21:00.closely and they get on extremely well. They have a good working
:21:01. > :21:03.relationship. Do they agree with absolutely every aspect of policy or
:21:04. > :21:06.time? Of course there are discussions, as there will be
:21:07. > :21:16.between George Osborne and David Cameron. They didn't agree over HS2,
:21:17. > :21:23.did they? That is not true will stop -- that is not true. They don't
:21:24. > :21:33.agree over the third runway at Heathrow. You are asking between
:21:34. > :21:37.their relationship now. Mr balls is in favour of the third runway and Ed
:21:38. > :21:45.Balls threatened to resign over a third runway. You cannot get a
:21:46. > :21:57.cigarette paper between them on policy. This is Miss chief. --
:21:58. > :22:07.mischief. I work with both closely and they get on extremely well.
:22:08. > :22:11.People like you told me exactly the same thing about Mr Brown and Mr
:22:12. > :22:20.Blair any time we raised it. Is it add? You would always play it down.
:22:21. > :22:26.Of course, it turned out that it was much worse than even we bought. I
:22:27. > :22:37.think people knew exactly what the relationship was. Forgive me for
:22:38. > :22:43.being a bit quizzical about it. How other Tories?
:22:44. > :22:47.Now, are the Tories out of touch? Does the party detract young voters,
:22:48. > :22:53.like you and me? Does it have a problem with its image? Surely not!
:22:54. > :23:02.Here's what one of your colleagues had to say yesterday. Nick Bowles
:23:03. > :23:14.has always been one for regional board. I don't agree with him. I
:23:15. > :23:18.travelled around the country all the time working hard with people all
:23:19. > :23:24.across this country will stop we are unequivocal plea backing the
:23:25. > :23:34.north-south rail line which does not have the support of Labour. A member
:23:35. > :23:40.of your own Government says voters think conservatives like you are
:23:41. > :23:44.aliens from another planet. I just don't agree with Nick on this. In
:23:45. > :23:50.the end, you have to appeal as a party, as a Government, as people
:23:51. > :23:58.who want to run the country. You have to appeal, which is why we are
:23:59. > :24:06.looking to win seats everywhere. I confidently addict we will win in
:24:07. > :24:18.Berwick-upon-Tweed next year. -- confidently predict. The fact is, in
:24:19. > :24:25.Scotland, in northern cities, in much of Wales, you are aliens. In
:24:26. > :24:31.Wales, we have been winning seats back. We have far more now than we
:24:32. > :24:38.did in the previous parliament. In Scotland, I was just talking
:24:39. > :24:41.yesterday too, admittedly, one MP, and we have a number of seats in
:24:42. > :24:47.Scotland which have been coming our way. We've seen that in elections
:24:48. > :24:52.for the Scottish Parliament. You got the same percentage of the boat as
:24:53. > :24:57.you did in 1997. Well, as you know, percentage of the vote is not what
:24:58. > :25:06.determines Parliamentary constituencies. Andrew, I'm not
:25:07. > :25:15.trying to spin use online. You are no longer a national party. You are
:25:16. > :25:23.a party of the South. That is not true. In my map of the country, we
:25:24. > :25:36.are to win more after the next general election and I can hope for
:25:37. > :25:41.a 300% increase. I will bet you now you will be lucky to hold on. You
:25:42. > :25:48.will be lucky to win two more seats in Scotland. 50 quid. You're on. In
:25:49. > :25:52.the north of this country, in Wales, when I look at the map of the
:25:53. > :26:00.country, we have many constituencies, we have lots of
:26:01. > :26:05.places where we very much hope to win next time. Our message is
:26:06. > :26:09.simple. If you are the kind of person who works hard, wants to get
:26:10. > :26:19.on in life, this is the Government for you. Conservatives on your side.
:26:20. > :26:22."Buenos dias a todos mis amigos". Good morning to all my Spanish
:26:23. > :26:26.friends. We, at the Daily Politics, are a friendly lot. And we've been a
:26:27. > :26:43.little disturbed by this disruption to European harmony.
:26:44. > :26:48.That's Spain's RV Romon Margalef being challenged by the Royal Navy
:26:49. > :26:52.in what officials say was a "significant incursion" into
:26:53. > :26:55.Gibraltar's territory. Well, we would like to calm these choppy
:26:56. > :27:02.diplomatic waters with a bit of news for the Foreign Office. Lean closer.
:27:03. > :27:09.They're only after one thing. Yes, "la taza de la politica cada
:27:10. > :27:16.dia!" They must have spotted one in our Gibraltar office. Well, sadly,
:27:17. > :27:20.we'd like to help the diplomatic situation, but tough - there's only
:27:21. > :27:31.one way we'll cede control of one of these beauties. And that's to listen
:27:32. > :27:35.to Senora JoCo. We'll remind you how to enter in a minute, but let's see
:27:36. > :27:44.if you can remember when this happened. What you have failed to
:27:45. > :27:51.observe, which I must point out in all modesty, is that they would be
:27:52. > :28:16.the first person in Number Ten to have a science degree will stop --.
:28:17. > :28:43.A dialling tone. And that's quite an achievement. It's one thing to dial
:28:44. > :28:44.a conversation, it is another to translate accurate digital
:28:45. > :29:07.information. I don't know why they used a clip
:29:08. > :29:13.with my co-presenter! I did one on telephones as well.
:29:14. > :29:17.To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug, send your answer
:29:18. > :29:19.to our special quiz email address - that's dpquiz@bbc.co.uk. And you can
:29:20. > :29:30.see the full terms and conditions for Guess The Year on our website.
:29:31. > :29:44.I did just give the name the way, didn't I? BBC compliance will be all
:29:45. > :29:54.over it. Anyway, we still have to pick the names out of a hat. Let's
:29:55. > :30:00.have a look at what is happening at Big Ben. Yes, Prime Minister's
:30:01. > :30:03.Questions is on its way. If you'd like to comment on proceedings you
:30:04. > :30:05.can email us at daily.politics@bbc.co.uk or tweet
:30:06. > :30:14.your thoughts using the hashtag #bbcdp - we'll read some out after
:30:15. > :30:22.PMQs. And that's not all - Nick Watt from The Guardian is here. What is
:30:23. > :30:27.going to happen? Well, Nicolas Bowles, the son of Jack Bowles, said
:30:28. > :30:35.Tories are still seen as a party of toffs. His father was decked --
:30:36. > :30:41.director of The National Trust. And then obviously the embarrassment of
:30:42. > :30:44.this e-mail sent by Ed Miliband's chief economic adviser describing Ed
:30:45. > :30:50.Balls as a nightmare. Those are the gags. One substance, if I was Ed
:30:51. > :31:34.Miliband I would want to get back to the main theme - cost of living.
:31:35. > :31:42.I am sure we would all want to associate ourselves with the Prime
:31:43. > :31:46.Minister's tribute. We will always remember their service to our
:31:47. > :31:52.country. MPs from across the house will have grave concerns about the
:31:53. > :31:59.nightmare unfolding at the Co-operative Bank. Does the Prime
:32:00. > :32:04.Minister share my sense of disbelief that a person such as reverend
:32:05. > :32:12.flowers, responsible as he was for such large sums of money, was ever
:32:13. > :32:19.appointed chairman, and what can he do to find out how on earth that
:32:20. > :32:24.happened? Constituents across the house will have people who hold
:32:25. > :32:27.Co-op bonds read about what will happen to their investment. The
:32:28. > :32:34.first priority is to safeguard this bank and make sure it is safeguarded
:32:35. > :32:40.without using taxpayers' money. That must be the priority. The Chancellor
:32:41. > :32:44.will discuss with the regulators what is the appropriate form of
:32:45. > :32:50.enquiry to get to the bottom of what went wrong. But there are lots of
:32:51. > :32:55.questions to be answered. Why was reverend flowers judged suitable to
:32:56. > :33:01.be chairman of the bank, why won't alarm bells rung earlier? -- why was
:33:02. > :33:07.Reverend Flowers judged suitable? It is important that anybody with
:33:08. > :33:14.information provided to the authorities.
:33:15. > :33:19.I joined the Prime Minister in paying tribute to warrant Officer
:33:20. > :33:23.Ian Fisher of 3rd Battalion The Mercian Regiment, who died serving
:33:24. > :33:27.his country and all of our thoughts are with his family and friends. Can
:33:28. > :33:38.the Prime Minister tell us how his campaign is going to save the
:33:39. > :33:41.Chipping Norton children centre? -- children's centre? I support
:33:42. > :33:46.children's centres across the country, but in spite of difficult
:33:47. > :33:52.decisions made across the country, the number of children's centres has
:33:53. > :33:58.reduced by around 1%, and like all MPs, I fight very hard for services
:33:59. > :34:02.in my constituency. They are going around saying that children's
:34:03. > :34:08.centres are safe and there is no threat to them. But things are so
:34:09. > :34:19.bad he has even signed a petition in his own area to save his local
:34:20. > :34:22.children's centre. Is the petition addressed to his local Tory
:34:23. > :34:29.council, or is he taking it right to the top? There are more people using
:34:30. > :34:33.children's centres than ever before in our country. The figures are,
:34:34. > :34:38.because he does not want to give them, there are 3000. The point I
:34:39. > :34:43.will make is this, the government can hold its head up high because we
:34:44. > :34:47.are increasing the money that is going to local councils for
:34:48. > :34:57.children's centres, that is what is happening under this Government. We
:34:58. > :35:00.all wish him luck in his fight as a local MP. Imagine what he could
:35:01. > :35:06.achieve if he were Prime Minister of the country. I think we have
:35:07. > :35:10.established these double standards in Oxfordshire. Let's take another
:35:11. > :35:15.example. In Tory Essex, their proposal... I know they don't care
:35:16. > :35:20.about children's centres, but they should listen. In Tory Essex, their
:35:21. > :35:27.proposal is to cut it 11 centres and downgrade 37, with the hours they
:35:28. > :35:35.stay open falling from 50 week to as little as five. So fewer centres,
:35:36. > :35:38.fewer staff, few hours. How is that doing what he promised before the
:35:39. > :35:49.election, to protect and improve sure start? For the first time
:35:50. > :35:54.ever, 15 hours of childcare for every three and four year-old in
:35:55. > :36:00.this country. That never happened under Labour. Free childcare hours
:36:01. > :36:05.for every disadvantaged two year-old, that never happened under
:36:06. > :36:10.Labour. And tax free childcare under this government is coming, that
:36:11. > :36:16.never happened under Labour. And we have upgraded the child tax credit
:36:17. > :36:21.by ?420. That is what is happening. Let me be clear, one policy we won't
:36:22. > :36:26.adopt, labour's policy of funding more hours through the bank levy. I
:36:27. > :36:34.will tell you why. They have already spent its ten times over. There it
:36:35. > :36:40.is. Jobs guarantee, VAT cuts, more capital spending. This isn't a
:36:41. > :36:53.policy, it is a night out with Reverend Flowers!
:36:54. > :37:03.Mr Speaker... Mr Speaker... Let's talk about the people he associates
:37:04. > :37:08.with. Let the house, down. I am concerned, as always, about
:37:09. > :37:13.backbenchers, and backbenchers who wants to speak should be
:37:14. > :37:20.accommodated. -- left the house calmed down. He has nearly taken
:37:21. > :37:22.five -- he has taken nearly ?5 million from a man whose company
:37:23. > :37:43.raked and they are just the people I can
:37:44. > :37:49.talk about. Didn't the Planning Minister have it right yesterday
:37:50. > :37:53.when he said this, the single biggest problem facing the
:37:54. > :37:59.Conservative Party is being seen as the party of the rich? How
:38:00. > :38:03.extraordinary that, on today of all days, he wants to talk about the
:38:04. > :38:12.people he associates with and takes money from? This bank, driven into
:38:13. > :38:17.the wall by this chairman, has been giving soft loans to the Labour
:38:18. > :38:20.Party, facilities and donations to the Labour Party, trooped in and out
:38:21. > :38:25.of Downing Street under the Labour Party, still advising the leader of
:38:26. > :38:30.the Labour Party, and now we know that, all along, they knew about his
:38:31. > :38:36.past. Why did they not bring to the attention of the authorities a man
:38:37. > :38:42.who has broken a bank? I think we can take it from that answer that he
:38:43. > :38:47.doesn't want to talk about his Planning Minister. Where is the
:38:48. > :38:52.Planning Minister today? Only last January, he was praising him to the
:38:53. > :38:57.rafters, saying he was leading the debate. I think the House should
:38:58. > :39:01.hear more from him. He says the Tory party stand for people who work for
:39:02. > :39:05.private equity and make a tonne of money. He is right, isn't he? We
:39:06. > :39:11.have finally found a public enquiry he doesn't want. He comes to this
:39:12. > :39:14.house and asks for enquiry after enquiry into the culture and
:39:15. > :39:23.practices of those and bad, but when it comes to the Co-op Bank, he is
:39:24. > :39:27.absolutely frightened of it. An interesting week to talk about
:39:28. > :39:33.people on the front bench. He has referred to his own Shadow
:39:34. > :39:37.Chancellor as a nightmare this week. I'm sorry, I hate to say I told you
:39:38. > :39:43.so, but I have said this for three years. That is not the most
:39:44. > :39:49.interesting thing in this fascinating exchange of e-mails.
:39:50. > :39:55.Labour's head of strategy - yes, they have one! - replied, when did
:39:56. > :40:00.built to last become part of our thing? Their policies, I agree, are
:40:01. > :40:09.built to self-destruct in about five seconds. What he has shown
:40:10. > :40:13.comprehensively today is he has no answers on the cost of living crisis
:40:14. > :40:17.facing families up and down the country. That is the truth. His
:40:18. > :40:33.close friend the Planning Minister is right.
:40:34. > :40:39.He says, many people don't like the Tory party and don't trust their
:40:40. > :40:43.motives. He says the Prime Minister is not the man to reach them. What
:40:44. > :40:52.he is really saying is that this Prime Minister is a loser.
:40:53. > :40:55.What this proves, Mr Speaker, he can't ask about the economy because
:40:56. > :40:59.it is growing. He can't ask about the deficit because it is falling,
:41:00. > :41:04.he can't ask about the number of people in work closet is rising. He
:41:05. > :41:13.can't even ask about banking because he is mired in his own scandal.
:41:14. > :41:25.Order, the answer must and will be heard. Too weak to stand up to his
:41:26. > :41:31.trade union paymasters, and his Shadow Chancellor. We know it would
:41:32. > :41:36.be a nightmare, that is why we are dedicated to making sure that the
:41:37. > :41:45.British people do not have to live through it.
:41:46. > :41:51.My right honourable friend will recall visiting the London Gateway
:41:52. > :41:55.ports in Thurrock, but is he as upset to hear that I am that Unite
:41:56. > :42:00.are picketing the potential clients of that port, and encouraging sister
:42:01. > :42:08.unions to block ships that will dock there. Is this not more evidence
:42:09. > :42:10.that they cost jobs, not save them? Visiting the London Gateway port is
:42:11. > :42:14.one of the most compelling things I have seen in recent years about
:42:15. > :42:23.Britain's industrial relations, it is an extraordinary investment which
:42:24. > :42:26.will be of huge importance, bringing jobs directly and indirectly. She is
:42:27. > :42:32.right about union intimidation and bully boy tag X. It is right that
:42:33. > :42:38.Unite and the Labour Party take part in that review. -- bully boy
:42:39. > :42:41.tactics. I am sure he will agree that the victims of terrorism
:42:42. > :42:45.deserve not just sympathy with our full support and help and must be at
:42:46. > :42:49.the core of any process dealing with the past in Northern Ireland. Even
:42:50. > :42:52.the very worrying statement by the attorney general for Northern
:42:53. > :42:56.Ireland overnight, made on his own account and behalf and without
:42:57. > :42:59.consultation, does he agree that there can be no question of an
:43:00. > :43:07.amnesty for any terrorist atrocities and crimes, and that all victims of
:43:08. > :43:12.terrorism deserve truth and justice? Let me agree with what he said,
:43:13. > :43:16.which is the words of the Northern Ireland attorney general are very
:43:17. > :43:22.much is own words, not at the behest of anyone else. The Government has
:43:23. > :43:26.no plans to legislate foreign amnesty for crimes committed during
:43:27. > :43:30.the Troubles. Richard Haass is currently consulting with all the
:43:31. > :43:37.Northern Ireland parties on issues from the past, as well as the
:43:38. > :43:41.atrocities. The General Synod is meeting today
:43:42. > :43:47.and will hopefully find a way to enable women as soon as the to be
:43:48. > :43:54.consecrated as bishops in the Church of England. If this is successful,
:43:55. > :44:02.will my right honourable friend and the Government support amendments to
:44:03. > :44:06.the Bishops' Act, to ensure that women can be admitted to the House
:44:07. > :44:09.of Lords as soon as possible rather than new women bishops having to
:44:10. > :44:15.queue up behind every existing diocesan Bishop before we can see
:44:16. > :44:20.women bishops in Parliament? He follows these matters very closely.
:44:21. > :44:24.His question is extremely important. I strongly support women
:44:25. > :44:28.bishops and I hope the Church of England takes this key step to
:44:29. > :44:33.ensure its place as a modern church in touch with society. There is a
:44:34. > :44:36.seniority rule for bishops going into the House of Lords. The
:44:37. > :44:41.Government is willing to work with the church to see how getting women
:44:42. > :44:45.bishops into the House of Lords can be achieved as soon as possible.
:44:46. > :44:49.Does he believe that the proposal from the conservative free
:44:50. > :44:56.enterprise group, supported by 42 of his MPs, to put VAT on food and
:44:57. > :45:09.children's clothes, shows the true face of the party he leads? I don't
:45:10. > :45:12.support that policy. I recently joined a credit union in my
:45:13. > :45:20.constituency which will help a lot of people to ensure they don't have
:45:21. > :45:25.to go to payday lenders. What more can the Government do to encourage
:45:26. > :45:30.credit unions and anybody who has a few pounds to spare to put away, to
:45:31. > :45:36.take the trade away from all four payday lenders? I'm grateful to my
:45:37. > :45:40.honourable friend for raising this issue. The Government thinks credit
:45:41. > :45:44.unions are a very big part of the answer to the problems of payday
:45:45. > :45:50.lending. We've invested a lot of money into credit unions. We are
:45:51. > :45:53.also regulating properly for the first time payday lending through
:45:54. > :46:02.the new regulator and we are prepared to look at all the steps
:46:03. > :46:06.that can be taken will stop --. The Prime Minister will be aware that
:46:07. > :46:09.save the children has highlighted the importance of early years of
:46:10. > :46:16.children's development. Does the Prime Minister accept that the
:46:17. > :46:24.closure of sure start centres is having a negative impact? I would
:46:25. > :46:29.challenge those figures. The pot of money for children's centres was 2.3
:46:30. > :46:38.billion in 2012 but it is going up to 2.5 billion in 2014. There are
:46:39. > :46:41.3000 children centres open. Only 1% have closed. I think the Government
:46:42. > :46:53.has an excellent record on this front. Now that the changes to
:46:54. > :46:56.Enfield A and maternity services has been given a green light by
:46:57. > :47:02.local GPs, can the Prime Minister confirm that Enfield is getting
:47:03. > :47:12.increased primary care funding and that the hospital is getting 20 47
:47:13. > :47:20.access to urgent care? 24/7 access. I understand the strategy has been
:47:21. > :47:24.implemented and the hospital will provide a service that gives access
:47:25. > :47:32.to GPs 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Increases in primary care
:47:33. > :47:41.funding is part of our plan to expand the NHS. We'll Prime Minister
:47:42. > :47:49.join me in congratulating the good people of Hull for winning the city
:47:50. > :47:54.of culture 2017? I'm absolutely delighted to join with the
:47:55. > :47:57.Honourable Gentleman and everyone in Hull in celebrating this great
:47:58. > :48:03.award. I think it is a very exciting opportunity. We will be able to
:48:04. > :48:19.celebrate the birthplace of Wilberforce. Philip Larkin was the
:48:20. > :48:29.librarian. Peter Mandelson is the hype -- high Sheriff, but everybody
:48:30. > :48:40.has their cross to bear! I'm sure it will be a huge success for Hull and
:48:41. > :48:46.for Humberside more generally. 600 new business start-ups have
:48:47. > :48:51.registered last year. In preparation for small business Saturday on the
:48:52. > :48:54.7th of December, would my right honourable friend meet with me to
:48:55. > :48:57.discuss a review of business rates to encourage future growth,
:48:58. > :49:05.especially in London where rates are very high? I'm very happy to discuss
:49:06. > :49:10.this issue with my friend who always stand up the small businesses and
:49:11. > :49:19.enterprise. I think it is a real success story, an excellent 4000
:49:20. > :49:23.businesses are running. We are running a Government scheme which
:49:24. > :49:26.has got off the ground very quickly. There are concerns about business
:49:27. > :49:30.rates and I am happy to discuss those without. May I encourage all
:49:31. > :49:35.colleagues to take part in small business Saturday? It is a brilliant
:49:36. > :49:46.initiative which worked very well in the US. Does the Prime Minister
:49:47. > :49:49.agree with his planning minister back when modern Britain looks at
:49:50. > :49:56.the Conservative Party, they see old-fashioned monolith? We've had
:49:57. > :50:04.interesting interventions from front bench is past and present. A tweet
:50:05. > :50:09.has just come in from Tony McNulty, the former Labour security minister,
:50:10. > :50:14.saying, the public are desperate for a PM in waiting who speaks for
:50:15. > :50:19.them, not a leader of the opposition indulging in partisan Westminster
:50:20. > :50:28.Village knock-about is. So, I would stay up with the tweets. I referred
:50:29. > :50:41.to the House of registers of members interest. Order! I want to hear the
:50:42. > :50:45.words being spoken. I referred the House to the register of members
:50:46. > :50:51.interests that I recently returned a delegation to Israel. On both the
:50:52. > :50:56.Israeli street and in the corridors of power, Iran remains a number-1
:50:57. > :51:01.issue of concern. The French president visited Israel earlier
:51:02. > :51:03.this week to discuss this matter with Israeli counterparts and
:51:04. > :51:10.appears to a clearly understood the legitimate concerns. When will our
:51:11. > :51:16.Prime Minister be visiting Israel to discuss the Iranian nuclear issue
:51:17. > :51:20.and other regional concerns? First, I thank the Honourable Gentleman for
:51:21. > :51:25.his question. I know there are many in his constituency who care deeply
:51:26. > :51:29.about this issue. I will never forget the visit I made as leader of
:51:30. > :51:36.the opposition and I look forward to visiting, I hope, next year. When I
:51:37. > :51:44.went to Israel, I also visited not only occupied East Jerusalem is but
:51:45. > :51:47.other areas of Palestine as is proper. But I do understand the
:51:48. > :51:52.concern is ready to have about the potential Iranian nuclear weapons.
:51:53. > :51:57.That is why I spoke to the President last night to make clear that we
:51:58. > :52:06.want an outcome to bees talks which takes a run further away from the
:52:07. > :52:13.nuclear weapons. -- these talks which takes Iran further away.
:52:14. > :52:17.Surely there is some merit from the Northern Ireland Attorney General
:52:18. > :52:23.that rather than a occurring -- rather than incurring huge expense
:52:24. > :52:28.and effort chasing crimes committed decades ago where the evidence is
:52:29. > :52:32.difficult to establish, the justified grievances of victims
:52:33. > :52:40.should be addressed in other ways so that Northern Ireland can move on
:52:41. > :52:45.from its hideous past. I have great respect for the right Honourable
:52:46. > :52:49.Gentleman's views on this issue. I do think it is important to allow
:52:50. > :52:54.Richard to do his work on parades and flags and dealing with the past.
:52:55. > :52:59.Clearly, the dealing with the past part is the most the gold of the
:53:00. > :53:09.three will stop -- the most difficult of the three. The police
:53:10. > :53:12.should be able to bring cases if they can. It is dangerous to think
:53:13. > :53:18.you can put some sort of lock on that. But we are all interested in
:53:19. > :53:21.ways for people to reconcile and come to terms with the past so they
:53:22. > :53:27.can bring together a shared future for Northern Ireland. The people and
:53:28. > :53:36.businesses of Suffolk are driving economic growth in the East of
:53:37. > :53:42.England Show. But they are increasingly fearful that the
:53:43. > :53:48.proposed A14 road toll will put it at a serious disadvantage compared
:53:49. > :53:51.to other counties. Can I ask my honourable friend if he will
:53:52. > :54:07.seriously be considered the current proposal? -- seriously reconsider.
:54:08. > :54:09.The important point is, we want new roads to be built. There are
:54:10. > :54:16.shortages on capital expenditure will stop that is why I think the
:54:17. > :54:29.idea of having a toll for some new roads is an idea properly work --
:54:30. > :54:33.worth looking at. People coming to terms with their loss have no terms
:54:34. > :54:38.or rights in this country to paid employment leave. Many other falls
:54:39. > :54:45.back into work party soon after the death of a child. Will the Prime
:54:46. > :54:52.Minister look into extending to give parents the legal right to have time
:54:53. > :55:00.to grieve? I'm very happy to look at that. Having suffered this
:55:01. > :55:03.experience myself, as a member of Parliament it is possible to take
:55:04. > :55:06.some time to stand back and have a look at what has happened because
:55:07. > :55:10.colleagues are ready to step in and do what they can. This is a very
:55:11. > :55:21.important point, let me look at it and get back to him. As I told my
:55:22. > :55:25.honourable friend when I last looked at this issue, if we want a proper
:55:26. > :55:37.deterrent, we need the best, that means a permanent at sea gesture.
:55:38. > :55:39.May I realise -- reassure my right honourable friend that excellent
:55:40. > :55:46.answer will remain on my website for as long as it takes the pledge to be
:55:47. > :55:50.filled. I notice he uses the words "conservative only". Only reassure
:55:51. > :55:57.the House that never again will the Dems allowed to obstruct or delay
:55:58. > :56:00.the signing of the contract, and will he undertake to sign those
:56:01. > :56:08.contracts at the first possible opportunity? Firstly, investment in
:56:09. > :56:12.our nuclear deterrent has not ceased. We're taking all necessary
:56:13. > :56:17.steps to make that main gate decision possible. We've had the
:56:18. > :56:23.alternative study which did not come up with a convincing answer. I don't
:56:24. > :56:28.think I would entirely satisfy my honourable friend even if I gave him
:56:29. > :56:43.a submarine to park off the coast of his constituency. I rather fear that
:56:44. > :56:46.is true. If the Prime Minister aware that,
:56:47. > :56:53.according to the Economist, Britain is now 159th lowest in the world in
:56:54. > :57:03.terms of British -- business investment, just behind Paraguay and
:57:04. > :57:09.what Marla? -- and Guatamala? Can you please tell how is when, under
:57:10. > :57:19.his esteemed leadership, Britain can expect to catch up with them? I can
:57:20. > :57:26.only conclude the right Honourable Gentleman has been out on a night
:57:27. > :57:29.with the reverend flowers. In the first six months of this year,
:57:30. > :57:45.Britain has received more investment than any other country anywhere in
:57:46. > :57:49.the world. Has my right honourable friend taking the advice opposite,
:57:50. > :57:59.what would have been the impact of fuel and the impact this would have
:58:00. > :58:05.had on families? If you look at the cuts and freezers in fuel duty that
:58:06. > :58:17.we have made, fuel duty would be 30p a leader -- a litre higher. It would
:58:18. > :58:22.be a nightmare. His own education Department says he has closed 578
:58:23. > :58:32.children centres. How is this protecting sure start? Well, I gave
:58:33. > :58:46.him the figures. There are 3000 such centres ( -- open and only 1% have
:58:47. > :58:48.closed. Ashton Manor Brewery in my constituency has invested ?10
:58:49. > :58:55.million in creating lots of jobs. The OECD has upgraded the forecast
:58:56. > :58:59.for Britain while downgrading the global forecast. Is it my honourable
:59:00. > :59:04.friend's view that reducing debt is the way to get the economy moving,
:59:05. > :59:11.not getting more debt like the party opposite? I'm grateful to my
:59:12. > :59:17.honourable friend and what he says. If you look at the OECD forecast out
:59:18. > :59:20.this week, you see a massive increase in the forecast for UK
:59:21. > :59:25.growth over the next couple of years. The party opposite don't want
:59:26. > :59:29.to talk about the economy. Because they told us we were then to lose a
:59:30. > :59:40.million jobs. We gained a million jobs! The nightmare of the Shadow
:59:41. > :59:47.Chancellor wants to talk about everything else! Let me just remind
:59:48. > :59:54.him of this important point. This is relevant to the issue of debt. Ken
:59:55. > :59:58.Livingstone said this: Gordon Brown was borrowing ?20 billion a year at
:59:59. > :00:01.the height of the boom in order to avoid having to increase taxes
:00:02. > :00:15.because he wanted to increase public spending. It was an act of
:00:16. > :00:46.cowardice. That is the daymare. We are also hearing ranting from the
:00:47. > :00:52.nightmare! Order! Order! The Honourable Lady has a right to but
:00:53. > :01:00.her question and to be heard when she does so. That is what is going
:01:01. > :01:04.to happen. The Housing Association is landlord to some of the poorest
:01:05. > :01:09.in my constituency. It recently voted its chief executive in
:01:10. > :01:14.noncontractual redundancy payoff of ?397,000. Will the Prime Minister
:01:15. > :01:18.join me in condemning the board's action and asking it to be repaid
:01:19. > :01:25.and invested in much-needed tenant services? I'm very happy to look at
:01:26. > :01:29.the case because some of these payoffs are completely unacceptable.
:01:30. > :01:33.We need to make sure local authorities properly take
:01:34. > :01:38.responsibility for stopping such payoffs. In other parts of the
:01:39. > :01:41.economy, we are making sure that if people are re-employed having taken
:01:42. > :01:52.these payoffs, they have to pay back the money. Does my right honourable
:01:53. > :01:57.friend agree that a key element of the success of the plan for the
:01:58. > :02:01.reserves would be if my right honourable friend could join
:02:02. > :02:06.together with the leader of the opposition and inspire employers
:02:07. > :02:12.that the success of this plan, because there is no other plan, is
:02:13. > :02:16.in the national interest? I completely agree with my right
:02:17. > :02:21.honourable friend. This is an important programme for the future
:02:22. > :02:26.of the country. I understand concerns about this, but if we pass
:02:27. > :02:31.the amendment, that would simply stop is investing in our reserves
:02:32. > :02:35.and improving our reserves rather than changing the overall stance. I
:02:36. > :02:46.have noticed Labour are staying Dashti Burdett a statement today -
:02:47. > :02:51.-- they put out a statement today that they are not calling that any
:02:52. > :02:57.specific programmes to be shelved. I think it is naked opportunism. Can
:02:58. > :03:06.the Prime Minister explain to this House why he deleted his pledge from
:03:07. > :03:11.the website? What we promised is we would not cut the NHS and we
:03:12. > :03:14.haven't. We made absolutely clear before the last election we would
:03:15. > :03:20.have to make difficult decisions, but it is because of those difficult
:03:21. > :03:24.decisions deficit is coming down, employment is growing, our economy
:03:25. > :03:27.is doing better, and if we followed the advice of the party opposite we
:03:28. > :03:43.would have more spending, more borrowing, more debt. Order!
:03:44. > :03:51.The questions came from all over the place. We got to name-calling about
:03:52. > :03:58.who bankrolled the parties and the people they mix with. We got an
:03:59. > :04:04.historic first, the first tweet to be tweeted during PMQs actually read
:04:05. > :04:10.out in almost real time. Former Labour minister Tony McNulty
:04:11. > :04:15.tweeted... It was slightly critical of Mr Ed Miliband. Lo and behold,
:04:16. > :04:19.the Prime Minister had a copy. Obviously somebody is in their
:04:20. > :04:26.monitoring between. Somebody handed it to the Prime Minister. We will be
:04:27. > :04:31.quoted, next week! The viewers agreed, it was a bit all over the
:04:32. > :04:35.place. John in Leeds said, Ed Miliband has been driven into a
:04:36. > :04:39.corner with the questions he can ask, he is unable to talk about the
:04:40. > :04:44.economy because it is improving, if he speaks about the banks he is on
:04:45. > :04:49.dangerous ground. Will from Oxfordshire, just awful. The team at
:04:50. > :04:52.choreographed David Cameron's performance must realise it is
:04:53. > :04:58.getting worse and worse. Jackie in Bristol says that those men should
:04:59. > :05:02.grow up and stop throwing stones at glasshouses, what a pointless
:05:03. > :05:06.exercise. No wonder nobody wants to vote and Russell Brand never has.
:05:07. > :05:12.Another e-mail says could somebody tell the Speaker to stop ruining the
:05:13. > :05:18.atmosphere of PMQs by rudely interrupting party leaders in full
:05:19. > :05:21.flow? Geoffrey says the fact that Ed Miliband and Ed Balls have never
:05:22. > :05:26.been to the pub together shows what chaos there would be if Labour came
:05:27. > :05:29.to power. I thought it was interesting the number of issues
:05:30. > :05:33.that came up that we had already discussed, it was like a replay of
:05:34. > :05:40.the Daily Politics! Nick, what did you make? It was a bit all over the
:05:41. > :05:44.place, but there was a very important announcement by the Prime
:05:45. > :05:51.Minister saying there will be an investigation into what went on at
:05:52. > :05:56.the Co-op. You have the chairman of the bank, approved by the FSA, who
:05:57. > :06:00.did not note the size of their assets. He thought it was ?3
:06:01. > :06:08.billion, it was ?47 billion. The Co-operative Bank is part of the
:06:09. > :06:16.co-operative movement which is part of the Labour Party. Ed Balls got
:06:17. > :06:22.money from the movement. Reverend Flowers' appointment was approved by
:06:23. > :06:27.the FSA, which was set up by the last government and is no longer in
:06:28. > :06:33.existence. It didn't even go to a second interview. The person
:06:34. > :06:42.involved in improving Reverend Flowers got a job on the Co-op
:06:43. > :06:45.board. I think he had a pretty rigorous interview to get onto the
:06:46. > :06:51.board, but not to be made chairman. He is intelligent but does not know
:06:52. > :06:54.much about banking. Rather than going on who is bankrolling whom,
:06:55. > :07:01.they should stick with living standards?
:07:02. > :07:06.He asked about Sure Start. David Cameron confirmed there are just
:07:07. > :07:12.over 3000 Sure Start centres, he did not say that around 578 have been
:07:13. > :07:17.closed and he promised not to close Sure Start centres. That is a cost
:07:18. > :07:24.of living issue. The cost of nursery places has gone up 30%, families are
:07:25. > :07:30.on average ?1600 a year every year... It is a cost of living
:07:31. > :07:36.issue. What can you tell us about this enquiry into the Co-op? The
:07:37. > :07:39.Prime Minister will ask the Chancellor to work with the
:07:40. > :07:45.regulatory authorities. People trust this bank. It has always been the
:07:46. > :07:52.bank which claims to do ethical banking. It now transpires that they
:07:53. > :07:57.were doing very seemingly unethical loans at low interest rates to
:07:58. > :08:03.organisations. Organisations without the balance sheet or the assets to
:08:04. > :08:09.support alone. Clearly there is a question to answer. If this is the
:08:10. > :08:15.mess that Labour R.N. With their own banking arrangements and facilities
:08:16. > :08:17.and between Ed Balls and Ed Miliband, can you imagine what it
:08:18. > :08:23.would be like if they were running the country? -- if this is the mess
:08:24. > :08:27.that Labour is in with their own banking arrangements. I assume it
:08:28. > :08:32.will not be a party political enquiry? It is very important for
:08:33. > :08:36.people who invest with that bank and bank with them know that a bank
:08:37. > :08:46.which seems to have gone off track is brought back on, to reinsure
:08:47. > :08:50.interest is -- reassure investors. The people who bail it out will help
:08:51. > :08:55.would capitalise the balance sheet and will end up owning 70% of the
:08:56. > :09:01.Co-op Hank. After what has happened this week, these hedge funds may say
:09:02. > :09:03.that the bank is tarnished, the brand is in real trouble,
:09:04. > :09:08.particularly since its unique selling point was the ethical nature
:09:09. > :09:14.of its business. If these hedge funds do not proceed with the
:09:15. > :09:18.recapitalisation, which is about ?1.5 billion, the Bank of England
:09:19. > :09:22.will have to they lit out? I don't want to preserve the Tate further
:09:23. > :09:28.issues for the bank, but it is clear that rings have gone wrong -- I
:09:29. > :09:35.don't want to precipitate. The takeover of Britannia, it then
:09:36. > :09:40.seemed to go into further difficulty. How do you end up with
:09:41. > :09:47.leading figures as Reverend Flowers, as it turns out, seems to have known
:09:48. > :09:58.nothing about banking. We need to understand that. I don't think you
:09:59. > :10:04.are a Co-op MP, you are a Unite MP? I am a member of a trade union, like
:10:05. > :10:11.many people, some of whom vote Tory. I bank with the Co-op. The party has
:10:12. > :10:16.historic relations with the Labour Party, questions need to be asked.
:10:17. > :10:19.If it is not to be a political enquiry, there is a really good
:10:20. > :10:23.story from the Guardian, the Co-op Bank have had around 30 meetings
:10:24. > :10:34.with one of your ministers, Mark Hoban. Presumably it will involve
:10:35. > :10:40.that content? Reign I don't far -- I don't think Mark Hoban has taken
:10:41. > :10:52.huge loans. The Britannia deal did not work well. Then it went for the
:10:53. > :10:57.630 Lloyds branches. That is what Mark Hoban was meeting them about.
:10:58. > :11:02.Then we discovered this huge hole, Lloyds discovered it. When Lloyds
:11:03. > :11:05.started the due diligence process at the early stages, can this bank
:11:06. > :11:11.afford these branches? It discovered it couldn't. The Portuguese chief
:11:12. > :11:21.executive of Lloyds Bank discovered there was a huge hole in the balance
:11:22. > :11:26.sheet. Labour is on the defensive on the Co-op, its funding and so on,
:11:27. > :11:31.but why do so may hedge funds give you money? We ask people to support
:11:32. > :11:38.the party. Thousands of ordinary people join up, but also businesses
:11:39. > :11:44.and investors. Why? Because they want to see this country being
:11:45. > :11:50.pro-business, pro-jobs, and growing. It does not matter whether you give
:11:51. > :11:58.is ?1 or ?1 million, you don't get... You don't buy a policy, you
:11:59. > :12:03.don't... Hold on a second. You don't buy dinner at Downing Street? You
:12:04. > :12:12.don't get to choose candidates or the leader. So you get nothing for
:12:13. > :12:15.it? Let me take you up on that. The hedge funds give you millions of
:12:16. > :12:23.pounds, but you say it does not buy policy, but you then cut the tax on
:12:24. > :12:28.hedge funds. We have introduced a... Why did you do that? We have
:12:29. > :12:37.introduced a ?2 billion annual tax levy on banks, more than you guys
:12:38. > :12:41.did. You say they cannot buy policy. I am not saying there is a
:12:42. > :12:45.correlation, a causation, but I look on the one hand that you are getting
:12:46. > :12:50.millions of pounds from hedge funds, and earlier this year you cut the
:12:51. > :12:58.tax on hedge funds. Ordinary people will think, hey, there has to be
:12:59. > :13:02.something going on? This is a big business in Britain. Hedge funds,
:13:03. > :13:07.the City, all of that. We have been very clear that banks need to pay
:13:08. > :13:13.and contribute more, they are paying ?2.5 billion more each year. By and
:13:14. > :13:18.large, banks do not give you money. You only RBS, you are not getting
:13:19. > :13:22.money from Lloyds and Santander. I was asking about hedge funds. You
:13:23. > :13:27.said you can't buy policy. If I am hedge funds, I give you ?1 million,
:13:28. > :13:33.a few months later, I am off to the races, you cut my taxes. You can't
:13:34. > :13:39.buy policies by giving money. There was the tax cut. That is different
:13:40. > :13:45.from a system where you select the leader, install candidates... Unless
:13:46. > :13:51.you are the person who was the head of JCB, unless your name is Adrian,
:13:52. > :13:56.the venture capital who wrote a report on hiring and firing. What
:13:57. > :13:59.the Prime Minister was doing was giving an opportunity to donors to
:14:00. > :14:07.write report that were then being considered for policy, in many
:14:08. > :14:11.cases. If you are telling me that companies like JCB, an enormous
:14:12. > :14:19.British success story, don't on their own accounts disburse...
:14:20. > :14:25.Deserve... Their helicopter is put at the disposal of the Prime
:14:26. > :14:30.Minister. I think we will have to leave it there. Nick, I will see you
:14:31. > :14:34.on Sunday morning on the Sunday Politics. Your cheque will be the
:14:35. > :14:37.post, blank as usual. Not the Co-op! Fatboy Slim and some rather nice
:14:38. > :14:40.fish and chip shops. Philip Larkin, John Prescot, and the
:14:41. > :14:43.Humber Bridge. Would Hull ever get the international status it
:14:44. > :14:46.deserved? This morning, the people of the city chewed their collective
:14:47. > :14:49.fingernails, hanging on the words of Culture Secretary Maria Miller as
:14:50. > :15:01.she announced who would be chosen as the UK's City of Culture 2017. It
:15:02. > :15:21.was Hull. So were they pleased? RAUCOUS CHAIRING. -- CHEERING. I do
:15:22. > :15:24.think they might have been pleased. And Hull's most famous MP, former
:15:25. > :15:30.Home Secretary Alan Johnson, joins us now from Central London. Sorry,
:15:31. > :15:39.John Prescott! It is good to see you in the daylight, Alan! Wider using
:15:40. > :15:44.Hull got it? It was a terrific bid. It was not just detailing all the
:15:45. > :15:50.great cult shall heritage, whether Andrew Marvell, Larkin, the Hull
:15:51. > :15:55.Truck Theatre, The Beautiful South or any of that, but it is focusing
:15:56. > :16:00.on the future, how City of Culture can create jobs and regenerate the
:16:01. > :16:06.city. Hull has not had it easy recently? It was the biggest port in
:16:07. > :16:12.the world, and the fishing industry collapse. They have been struggling
:16:13. > :16:17.back from that. It is good in its own right to be a city of culture,
:16:18. > :16:21.but you think it is a contributor towards the economic regeneration of
:16:22. > :16:27.the city and the surrounding area? It is part of a plan. Whether we
:16:28. > :16:32.have it or not, this would go on. A gallery, bringing HMS illustrious
:16:33. > :16:36.into the city, the fruit market is being regenerated in terms of arts
:16:37. > :16:42.and crafts at that rep. I think this is why the judges unanimously
:16:43. > :16:46.supported Hull, it fits into that plan. We did not just bid for City
:16:47. > :16:52.of Culture and there is nothing out there, it is a real vision for the
:16:53. > :16:58.future. We have a little test, let's see how up you are. I think you will
:16:59. > :17:04.do all right. Which poll it was the librarian at the University of hole
:17:05. > :17:10.for 30 years? Philippa log in. -- Philip Larkin. Which pop and top the
:17:11. > :17:22.charts in 1986 with their single Caravan Of Love. Housemartins. Which
:17:23. > :17:32.Hull born actress is probably best known for being on the BT adverts?
:17:33. > :17:36.Maureen Lipman. I hope... Hope Michael Portillo is watching! You
:17:37. > :17:48.can see the personification of culture in the person before you.
:17:49. > :18:04.Which New Zealand novelist won this year 's man Booker prize? Eleanor
:18:05. > :18:16.Catton. Who painted three studies of louche and Freud recently sold for
:18:17. > :18:23.?142 million? -- of Lucian Freud. That was Francis Bacon. They became
:18:24. > :18:34.the first woman to conduct the latter night of the BBC Proms this
:18:35. > :18:38.year? Marian Alsop. And which star of the only way is ethics is
:18:39. > :18:49.appearing on this year 's I'm a celebrity? It's good to know pop --
:18:50. > :18:59.politicians have their finger on the pulse. Apparently his name is Joey
:19:00. > :19:05.Essex. Did he change his name by deed poll? Who knows. Alan, are you
:19:06. > :19:12.going to get stuck into this city of culture? Yes, in a sense, the hard
:19:13. > :19:23.work starts here. We had look what has happened in Londonderry and we
:19:24. > :19:25.will try to emulate that. Now, buying a new home is an
:19:26. > :19:29.expensive business what with mortgage fees, moving costs and
:19:30. > :19:32.legal costs, not to mention the cost of the House itself. But if you're
:19:33. > :19:36.buying a place for ?125,000 or more then you'll also have to write a
:19:37. > :19:40.cheque to the Treasury to pay Stamp Duty Land Tax. Home owners have to
:19:41. > :19:43.pay a percentage of the total purchase price, but as the value of
:19:44. > :19:47.properties rise, many are finding themselves with a bigger and bigger
:19:48. > :19:50.Stamp Duty bill. The think tank the Taxpayers' Alliance wanst to see it
:19:51. > :20:02.cut. In this week's soapbox, their chief executive, Matthew Sinclair,
:20:03. > :20:05.explains why. You can't buy a real House with
:20:06. > :20:14.Monopoly money. It often takes years to assemble and deposit. So why does
:20:15. > :20:19.the taxman make it that much harder? Stamp duty used to be 1% of
:20:20. > :20:26.the value and only paid on above average properties. Now, people have
:20:27. > :20:36.to pay 3% on ordinary family homes, not just made their mansions. --
:20:37. > :20:40.Mayfair mansions. With rising House prices, more of us are being stung
:20:41. > :20:47.by these higher rates. Purchasing a little greenhouse of our own is
:20:48. > :20:51.becoming more unaffordable. It is the largest cheque we will ever
:20:52. > :20:59.write but it does not raise a lot of revenue. It is only about 1% of the
:21:00. > :21:08.taxes the Government takes in one year. The reason is obvious. Fewer
:21:09. > :21:13.people move as costs rise. So you could cut stamp duty with very
:21:14. > :21:18.little impact. Even in the most affordable parts of the Monopoly
:21:19. > :21:23.board, like Old Kent Road, punitive rates still apply. Stamp duty makes
:21:24. > :21:27.it much harder for young people to buy a home and start a family. It
:21:28. > :21:32.discourages elderly people from downsizing. It distorts the House
:21:33. > :21:37.market so much that two major recent reviews of the tax system called for
:21:38. > :21:42.it to be abolished. It makes it harder for people to move to new
:21:43. > :21:47.places for new jobs. In this game, the only winner is the taxman.
:21:48. > :21:52.Increase the threshold, reform the structure, or simply cut the rates.
:21:53. > :21:58.However he does it, it is time for the Chancellor to cut this unfair
:21:59. > :22:05.double tax. Let's pick up on your point about public finances. I think
:22:06. > :22:11.people would argue that points. ?6.9 million collected last year, ?7.7
:22:12. > :22:15.million predict this year. It is not going to pay back all the deficit,
:22:16. > :22:20.but in austerity times, it is a lot of money. But it is a tax on
:22:21. > :22:31.transactions. The more people move, the more get paid. Therefore, what
:22:32. > :22:34.we've done by putting in place high rates is discourage people from
:22:35. > :22:41.moving. There was powerful new evidence coming out that shows
:22:42. > :22:45.higher stamp duty rates mean lower numbers of transactions. That means
:22:46. > :22:49.they undermine their own revenue. The higher the rates get, the fewer
:22:50. > :22:55.the transactions, the more you are trying to take a big chunk out of a
:22:56. > :23:00.smaller pie of transactions. The impact on revenue would be much more
:23:01. > :23:08.limited. Those figures are billions not million. I looked at this when I
:23:09. > :23:12.was housing minister will stop in order to try to find out whether it
:23:13. > :23:17.was possible to encourage enough additional activity that the
:23:18. > :23:23.Treasury still got the money. The truth is, 6 billion is not small
:23:24. > :23:27.change. What about the point that if you lowered it, you would get more?
:23:28. > :23:34.When we modelled it, we never found that that was the case. I think
:23:35. > :23:38.there are lots of taxes that we would rather get rid of, but the
:23:39. > :23:43.truth is we have to do that by cutting expenditure and carrying on
:23:44. > :23:50.the programme of deficit reduction. Since you were housing minister, we
:23:51. > :23:55.have for the first time in all its evidence to give us a concrete sense
:23:56. > :24:00.of how the number of transactions responds really strongly to the
:24:01. > :24:03.stamp duty rate. Given that there are so many other things people do
:24:04. > :24:08.when they move, so many purchasers, so many other transactions that
:24:09. > :24:15.create tax receipts, it does not mean there will be no cost of doing
:24:16. > :24:18.this. But there are loads of ways... We think ultimately it should be
:24:19. > :24:22.abolished. But in the meantime, there would be nothing wrong
:24:23. > :24:28.whatsoever with increasing the threshold and cutting the rates,
:24:29. > :24:30.reforming the crazy structure. It was a big issue with the
:24:31. > :24:36.Conservatives before the last election. George Osborne promised to
:24:37. > :24:45.abolish stamp duty for almost all first-time buyers. I think this was
:24:46. > :24:49.the 2007 policy. The previous Government brought that in and then
:24:50. > :24:53.ran for a while. Actually, we found it was costing the Treasury quite a
:24:54. > :25:00.lot. One interesting thing is that things like the Help To Buy scheme
:25:01. > :25:06.coming in which is helping people get onto the housing ladder, that
:25:07. > :25:09.has a much higher impact. Whenever we modelled it we've not managed to
:25:10. > :25:22.show that the Treasury would still collect the money. It is an
:25:23. > :25:25.interesting issue. A year ago, one option we had was to do something
:25:26. > :25:31.around stamp duty for first-time buyers will stop if we're honest,
:25:32. > :25:36.this is a symptom of something that is wrong with the housing market. We
:25:37. > :25:43.need to bask increase supply. That is the thing. But while we're
:25:44. > :25:50.waiting for that to come along... Well, house-building completions are
:25:51. > :25:58.now at their lowest peace building levels since the world war. They've
:25:59. > :26:01.gone on 29% in the last year. When George Osborne told the Cabinet,
:26:02. > :26:05.we're going to have a nice at all housing price boom - we don't want a
:26:06. > :26:13.House price boom, we want a house-building boom. It is not true
:26:14. > :26:19.to say we are building fewer houses. Actually, this does happen
:26:20. > :26:28.to be an area I know something about. Remember all those e-mails
:26:29. > :26:36.that came out? 150,000 new homes have been built and planning
:26:37. > :26:42.permission is up. The 1920s lowest holding level was the level from
:26:43. > :26:47.your Government beforehand. I agree we need to build more and that is
:26:48. > :26:51.something we are doing. You did not have a great record in 13 years.
:26:52. > :26:58.Most Labour politicians would agree that you did not build enough. Back
:26:59. > :27:08.chaps, can we expect any movement on this in the autumn statement? --
:27:09. > :27:12.Grant Schapps. There is a very practical Help To Buy scheme so that
:27:13. > :27:21.now people don't have to stump up ?60,000. They can get a deposit with
:27:22. > :27:24.?10,000. Where going to tax people and then were going to say, but you
:27:25. > :27:32.can borrow more money from the bank to work up for it. It is of long way
:27:33. > :27:41.from taking responsibility. We need to do something about this cost.
:27:42. > :27:45.Thank you. Now, it's time to put you out of your misery and give you the
:27:46. > :28:03.answer to Guess The Year. It was 1979. Grant, would you press that
:28:04. > :28:14.red button now, please. Ken Clarke! But with no last letter on there.
:28:15. > :28:21.Here is Andrew in 1976 talking about the breaking up of written.
:28:22. > :28:28.It is not quite as simple as the budding tartan shapes would make us
:28:29. > :28:33.believe. Who is that? OK, that's all for today. Thanks to our guests. The
:28:34. > :28:37.One O'clock News is starting over on BBC One now. We'll be back tomorrow
:28:38. > :28:40.at noon with all the big political stories of the day. We'll be joined
:28:41. > :28:46.by Nicola Horlick, the business woman who was once described as
:28:47. > :28:51.Superwoman. So do join us then. Bye bye.