:00:52. > :00:57.The Co-op scandal takes another twist. Paul Flowers is arrested in
:00:58. > :01:01.connection with the drug supply investigation. We will discuss the
:01:02. > :01:08.continuing political fallout. He once hugged the Huskies and said,
:01:09. > :01:14.vote blue, go green. Now he wants to roll back on the green stuff. Is
:01:15. > :01:21.David Cameron 's modernising agenda as dead as a parrot? We go
:01:22. > :01:31.behind-the-scenes of return 's newest local TV channel. It is in
:01:32. > :01:37.Grimsby. -- Britain 's newest local TV channel. And we discuss the
:01:38. > :01:38.legacy of John F. Kennedy, who was assassinated in Dallas, 50 years ago
:01:39. > :01:50.today. They always ask, can you remember
:01:51. > :01:55.where you were when the news of the death of Kennedy came through 50
:01:56. > :02:00.years ago today? I can. All that is coming up in the next hour, as well
:02:01. > :02:06.as our regular look at the latest political news from 12:30pm. With
:02:07. > :02:10.us, the political columnist from the Times. Let's start with the news
:02:11. > :02:15.that the former chairman of the Co-op bank, Paul Flowers, has been
:02:16. > :02:18.arrested in Merseyside in connection with the drug supply investigation.
:02:19. > :02:23.He was filmed by the mail on Sunday which said he was handing over money
:02:24. > :02:35.for cocaine and discussing buying other hard, illegal drugs, -- drugs.
:02:36. > :02:40.Last night, the BBC also revealed that he had resigned from the Co-op
:02:41. > :02:45.group in June because of concerns about his lavish expense claims.
:02:46. > :02:49.Separately, he was also forced out, we are told, because the banking arm
:02:50. > :02:55.thought they had doubts about his competency for the job. These
:02:56. > :03:04.expense claims at the bank followed huge expense claims at a charity he
:03:05. > :03:09.worked for as well. The Times has splashed on this as well. The
:03:10. > :03:16.headline, Labour engulfed by Co-op scandal. Although the Conservatives
:03:17. > :03:20.have been dragged into this a bit as well, because of the historic ties
:03:21. > :03:25.between Labour and the Co-op in between Co-op people and Labour
:03:26. > :03:32.people, it is Labour in the front line, isn't it? The Co-op was
:03:33. > :03:38.cuddly, touchy, Feely and an ethical bank. It is supposed to be less
:03:39. > :03:45.cut-throat and the nice bank. All the politicians on all sides wanted
:03:46. > :03:48.to cosy up a bit. Ed Balls facilitated the Britannia deal.
:03:49. > :03:55.George Osborne also was keen to help the Co-op get a deal with Lloyds.
:03:56. > :04:02.And to get the 600 odd Lloyds branches to become Co-op branches.
:04:03. > :04:10.It was a way to get banks out of the banking crisis. We do not deal with
:04:11. > :04:16.evil bloodsuckers. Exactly. It seems there was an issue of competence at
:04:17. > :04:20.the top of the Co-op. It was both ethical issues for individuals but
:04:21. > :04:27.also management questions about how these appointments were made. It is
:04:28. > :04:33.interesting, you had Labour, Conservative, Lib Dems, all in
:04:34. > :04:43.favour of this super mutual. They were all doing what they could.
:04:44. > :04:48.George of -- George Osborne went out of his way. None of them asks
:04:49. > :04:54.themselves any of the really hard questions about, is this bank
:04:55. > :05:00.competent enough? What if the chairman like? Does he have banking
:05:01. > :05:08.experience? Is the balance sheet strong enough to do this? I think
:05:09. > :05:13.there is a danger, if there is too much mudslinging on either side. If
:05:14. > :05:17.the Tories tried to pin too much blame on labour, it will backfire.
:05:18. > :05:23.There are not really party political points to be scored too much on
:05:24. > :05:27.this. At the moment, the line of the Conservatives is to smear by
:05:28. > :05:34.association. What they have not yet got is the smoking gun. Or the
:05:35. > :05:39.smouldering e-mail. These are the smoking guns of the 21st-century.
:05:40. > :05:44.What they really need to make their case stick is showing some e-mail -
:05:45. > :05:52.some form of correspondence that that shows that Mr Flowers, Ed Balls
:05:53. > :06:00.or Ed Miliband - were actually in cahoots over something. No knowledge
:06:01. > :06:06.of how he resigned as a counsellor. There is a lack of clear evidence.
:06:07. > :06:13.We would like to know what Reverend Flowers said to Ed Miliband.
:06:14. > :06:17.Exactly. Another question about the laid-back in a funding crisis with
:06:18. > :06:21.the falling out of the unions and the co-operative bank. They have a
:06:22. > :06:26.big overdraft. There are wider questions about that. In the end,
:06:27. > :06:35.the voters think, these are all politicians smearing each other and
:06:36. > :06:39.they are all the same. It does combine the Watergate question for
:06:40. > :06:48.Labour. What did you know and when did you know it? That has not stuck
:06:49. > :06:57.yet. I do not think it has. What comes to mind with the Conservative
:06:58. > :07:11.Party bastion of it is all kicking off with MPs squaring up to each
:07:12. > :07:16.other. -- Conservative Party? It is said the Tories should revive the
:07:17. > :07:22.National Liberal party and encourage sitting MPs to sign up. It is about
:07:23. > :07:25.attracting liberal minded voters before the next election. Greg
:07:26. > :07:30.Barker and Nick Hurd have said he was right to ask tough questions.
:07:31. > :07:48.Other Tory MPs are fighting back. Stuart Jackson said, it is about the
:07:49. > :07:52.tribe. Peter bone oppose the idea of a second party, endorsing
:07:53. > :07:57.Conservative candidates, so he can stand on the joint UKIP Tory ticket.
:07:58. > :08:01.Not very useful. How well David Cameron break up the fight? The
:08:02. > :08:08.Prime Minister is siding with antimodern eyes is at this stage. He
:08:09. > :08:13.might have one time said, vote blue and go green. He did say that. A
:08:14. > :08:23.senior Tory source has told the paper is David Cameron wants to cut
:08:24. > :08:28.the green crap. Which approach with win the Tories more seats in 2015? I
:08:29. > :08:46.am joined by the director of the think tank, bright blue. And by a
:08:47. > :08:53.UKIP supporter. It is a long way to go. Ryan, I guess you agree with
:08:54. > :08:55.Nick Bowles. This is an impression that modernisers are somehow
:08:56. > :09:04.obsessed with gay marriage and huskies. -- Nick Boles. Nick Boles
:09:05. > :09:09.will say yes, let's have a tough line on immigration and a referendum
:09:10. > :09:12.on the EU. A lot of people out there are sceptical. Younger voters and
:09:13. > :09:19.people outside the southern heartlands. Ethnic minority voters.
:09:20. > :09:24.We need something for them. Things like international develop and gay
:09:25. > :09:28.marriage. This can be very appealing to voters. Let's have a broad offer.
:09:29. > :09:37.It is trying to strengthen conservatism. Nick Boles reminds me
:09:38. > :09:43.of a trendy new vicar. He strips out all the pews and puts in rave drapes
:09:44. > :09:51.on the walls and holds raves in the names. He wonders why, despite the
:09:52. > :09:55.best efforts, young people hate the church. They have jettisoned all the
:09:56. > :10:01.old principles and all the things that might have made them
:10:02. > :10:05.worthwhile. That is a good analogy, I think. We were just let that hang
:10:06. > :10:12.on the wall. What is the answer to this point? Nick Boles said that the
:10:13. > :10:17.Conservative Party is thought of by the Young as the party of the rich.
:10:18. > :10:22.He seems to think this is a presentational problem. It is about
:10:23. > :10:37.be our team. As it stands, it is the party of the rich. Nick Boles is
:10:38. > :10:41.very much part of this... He is certainly a minor aristocrat.
:10:42. > :10:53.Nothing is worse in Britain than being called a minor aristocrat. Try
:10:54. > :10:56.and convince me, have a go. It is not about abandoning conservatism.
:10:57. > :11:00.The problem with the Tory party is there is a perception they are not
:11:01. > :11:04.in touch with the modern world and they do not stand for people on low
:11:05. > :11:09.and middle incomes. We need policies which address that. It is not
:11:10. > :11:12.abandoning Conservative policies. Gay marriage is applying very
:11:13. > :11:17.special Conservative institution to the issue of gay rights. On helping
:11:18. > :11:22.the low paid, the biggest policy has been raising the personal tax
:11:23. > :11:28.allowance. This is what modernisers support. You care strongly about gay
:11:29. > :11:33.marriage. Young people really do not give a toss about that kind of
:11:34. > :11:38.thing. They care about jobs, earning a living and having a future. All of
:11:39. > :11:42.this is being denied them either current modernising policy of money
:11:43. > :11:50.printing. That is a real issue, rather than a fake issue. No one
:11:51. > :11:59.cares about gay marriage. Young people do not understand why people
:12:00. > :12:06.were opposed to it in the past. If we have taken it in our stride as a
:12:07. > :12:10.society, why make it an issue? Young people wonder why they were not
:12:11. > :12:14.allowed to marry. There is support across the country, overwhelming
:12:15. > :12:36.support. Nick Boles is so wrong. The Tories
:12:37. > :12:41.need to realise they have not won an election at right since 1992. The
:12:42. > :12:47.modernising in the last election was slightly fudged, I think. It got
:12:48. > :12:54.confused. If they do become the party of the rich, then they will
:12:55. > :13:06.never win. They are the party of the oligarchs. The party of people are
:13:07. > :13:13.people whose houses have been inflated by all of this. -- the
:13:14. > :13:17.party of the people whose houses have been inflated. They needed to
:13:18. > :13:26.have done a lot more to counterbalance it and they have. Is
:13:27. > :13:31.it time to cut green levies? Not all modernisers are from the rich. There
:13:32. > :13:34.is a whole range of people - people like Robert Halfon, from different
:13:35. > :13:43.backgrounds and standing for different things. Modernisation is
:13:44. > :13:48.also about beating this image of it being the party of the rich. That is
:13:49. > :13:56.a classic lower middle-class Tory issue. Should green levies be cut?
:13:57. > :14:00.On the green levies, there is all this talk about the dropping of the
:14:01. > :14:05.green agenda. Lots of things are being done. There is the renewable
:14:06. > :14:09.heat incentive and nuclear power station for the first time since the
:14:10. > :14:18.mid-90s. There is the Green Deal and the green investment bank. Lots is
:14:19. > :14:21.going on. Do not start out as a politician not answering the
:14:22. > :14:27.question because you grow into it anyway. Should the green levies be
:14:28. > :14:31.cut? There is a cost of living crisis and people are feeling the
:14:32. > :14:34.squeeze. It is right the government should be looking at how you should
:14:35. > :14:39.support people on very low incomes with bills. They are looking at
:14:40. > :14:44.other ways to support green energy. They are looking at maybe putting it
:14:45. > :14:47.into general taxation. There are alternative ways to do this. It is
:14:48. > :14:54.the case that renewable energy should be supported. Do it in a way
:14:55. > :15:00.that is fair and make sense. You are sounding like a member of the Tory
:15:01. > :15:05.Cabinet. Of course the green levies should be cut. That is one of the
:15:06. > :15:10.main reasons why we are having this cost of living crisis. Energy bills
:15:11. > :15:17.are being inflated by lunatic green policies which have been endorsed by
:15:18. > :15:27.David Cameron, in succession to Ed Miliband. The reason we should be
:15:28. > :15:33.doing this is there is no issue. Why vote for someone where they all have
:15:34. > :15:36.the same problem? It may be right or wrong in terms of substance but is
:15:37. > :15:43.it not quite clear in the Tory leadership, as they look back at
:15:44. > :15:47.2010 and say they fought modernising agenda and did not win the election,
:15:48. > :15:51.which they hate people to point out, and they are moving towards what you
:15:52. > :15:54.would call the right. They are moving towards traditional routes
:15:55. > :16:00.because their polling suggests that is the way to get more votes.
:16:01. > :16:06.Successive Tory leaders tried that strategy and it hasn't worked. David
:16:07. > :16:09.Cameron's authentic message was that he was going to be a different kind
:16:10. > :16:15.of Conservative. He was going to appeal to a wider range of people...
:16:16. > :16:19.It was all PR driven, wasn't it? You question whether what kind of a
:16:20. > :16:28.leader is he? There is a lack of authenticity about where he is going
:16:29. > :16:33.now. He vote for Ed Miliband's climate change? Exactly. He is
:16:34. > :16:39.riding with huskies. If his attitude and the Tory Party's
:16:40. > :16:46.is on the defensive, w don't you join the Tories and drag them your
:16:47. > :16:50.way? I like to think of UKIP as the equivalent of the Tea Party. It is
:16:51. > :16:57.the conscience of the Conservative Party. It is like the Tory Party in
:16:58. > :17:01.exile and its job is to remind the Tory Party that there is this
:17:02. > :17:05.massive constituency of voters who would like lower taxes and less
:17:06. > :17:11.regulation and smaller energy bills. The Republicans winning in Florida
:17:12. > :17:19.and the Republicans won in New Jersey? It is not the pertected
:17:20. > :17:24.model -- perfect model. All parties are coalitions and you are only
:17:25. > :17:28.going to win if you are coalition to more of the centre and if you become
:17:29. > :17:33.a coalition to the right, they will not win. So far they have not won
:17:34. > :17:41.anything they have done. You two go and have a chat! I can see a meeting
:17:42. > :17:46.of minds at some stage. I can convince them. When his frontal
:17:47. > :17:52.lobes develop. Thanks. Next week the first of a new
:17:53. > :17:55.breed of local TV stations starts broadcasting in Grimsby. Funded by
:17:56. > :17:58.advertising, sponsorship and a commercial agreement with the BBC,
:17:59. > :18:02.the new channels will feature local news, sport, culture and,
:18:03. > :18:07.entertainment and they will be available on Freeview Channel A.
:18:08. > :18:11.That's a good position to be on on the electronic programme guide. The
:18:12. > :18:16.new stations were dreamt up by Jeremy Hunt because he is with the
:18:17. > :18:23.NHS. He saw them as a way of strengthening local democracy. Was
:18:24. > :18:30.he right? Giles has been to Grimsby for a look behind the scenes of
:18:31. > :18:37.Estuary TV. Behind all the glitz and fanfare, in
:18:38. > :18:40.an office in Grimsby institute, the town's university, three staff at
:18:41. > :18:45.Estuary TV that launches next Tuesday, the first of a new batch of
:18:46. > :18:52.licensed stations delivering the Government's local TV policy putting
:18:53. > :18:56.the final touches to their programmes and promos forhe viewers.
:18:57. > :19:01.Wow, excited. I know! I should think so too.
:19:02. > :19:04.Excited they are and if why is daunted, there is eight full-time
:19:05. > :19:11.staff, but one suspects an anticipated and very needed army of
:19:12. > :19:18.volunteers. There is a busy schedule to fill. They will offer news,
:19:19. > :19:24.sport, culture and politics in a non for profit community station for the
:19:25. > :19:29.Humber region. But this kind of US-style local TV is an idea that's
:19:30. > :19:32.been tried before in the UK and failed. Why might it be different
:19:33. > :19:37.this time? There will be interaction in terms of people working for the
:19:38. > :19:40.station, people volunteering to make programmes, but young people coming
:19:41. > :19:43.here to train and learn their craft. It is important to stress that, you
:19:44. > :19:49.know, we can't be complacent. We really want to give local TV a great
:19:50. > :19:52.launch, and a following wind, but it is important everyone involved in
:19:53. > :19:55.local television works hard to make it happen.
:19:56. > :20:00.That's it from Estuary TV news. Join us again tomorrow evening at 5.40pm.
:20:01. > :20:05.Until then, from all of us, goodbye. So that's the programme that goes
:20:06. > :20:09.out every day, clearly you think there is a market for this? I think
:20:10. > :20:13.there is a market. For instance, through our Facebook page we had a
:20:14. > :20:17.local school group say we are celebrating tenth birthday. Come and
:20:18. > :20:21.film us. It was the first request, we have been along, but to turn it
:20:22. > :20:27.on its head, we gave the camera to the children. We let them film and
:20:28. > :20:31.do the interviews. There is that level of it is not waving
:20:32. > :20:41.camcorder-style. What do you like doing out of school? I like really
:20:42. > :20:46.playing. We have put it together as one of the first packages to go out.
:20:47. > :20:51.Things like that make us a bit different. And we're watching
:20:52. > :20:54.Estuary TV. Believe me, the peculiarities of
:20:55. > :20:58.doing a television report about the launch of a television station are
:20:59. > :21:03.not lost on me, but television is changing. What people watch, who is
:21:04. > :21:08.watching it and how they watch it is changing out of all proportion and
:21:09. > :21:11.maybe that's why the Government thought it was time to have another
:21:12. > :21:14.go at this local TV idea where it failed in the past and you get the
:21:15. > :21:18.sense that people doing it think it is a good time. They know it will be
:21:19. > :21:21.hard work. They know there is no guarantees of success, but it is not
:21:22. > :21:36.inevitable that they will fail. We are joined by Ed Hall, the Chief
:21:37. > :21:41.Executive of Comux. They are the company responsible for the
:21:42. > :21:45.infrastructure which will beam the new TV channels to your homes.
:21:46. > :21:54.Welcome. Thank you. How do you pronounce it? Comux. As
:21:55. > :21:57.in multiplex. I understand you have admitted that many examples over the
:21:58. > :22:02.last 20 years have shown the business model for local TV didn't
:22:03. > :22:09.stack up. Why is this different? It is dramatically different. These
:22:10. > :22:13.channels are going to appear on Channel eight on Freeview. In the
:22:14. > :22:17.past, they were in very difficult places to find. So most TVs didn't
:22:18. > :22:21.pick them up and they were difficult to measure. So one station here, one
:22:22. > :22:25.station there, they didn't have an awed cens that was measured that
:22:26. > :22:30.they could sell. This time, 12 million, more than 12 million homes
:22:31. > :22:34.will have a new channel eight. You have created a commodity that can be
:22:35. > :22:44.sold properly. Are they only on for a couple of
:22:45. > :22:48.hours a day? You have various plans. Will they need to be advertising
:22:49. > :22:54.funded? They are advertiser funded. They have relaxations from Ofcom.
:22:55. > :22:57.The BBC has been forced, I think, to chip in ?40 million, isn't it? The
:22:58. > :23:02.BBC has enjoyed investing in local Television. Really? Who are you
:23:03. > :23:08.speaking to at the BBC? The BBC Trust. There is a warm
:23:09. > :23:11.relationship... Ah, the Trust. A warm relationship? You were talking
:23:12. > :23:16.about Estuary TV. There are people that worked in that newsroom, that
:23:17. > :23:22.are already working and have been working for the BBC for a loum.
:23:23. > :23:27.There are established relationships. Presumably the ads that the stations
:23:28. > :23:33.will go for will be different from the ads that will run on ITV or Sky
:23:34. > :23:37.or Channel 4? I mean, that will be up to the local stations to decide.
:23:38. > :23:41.They would be very local, would they? We can see people talking
:23:42. > :23:44.about local advertising, but also they are effectively a national
:23:45. > :23:50.network as well. So they will benefit from that too. What do you
:23:51. > :23:55.think of this, Rachel? I am sceptical that it will transform
:23:56. > :24:01.local democracy. The biggest threat, you will get ended free sheets from
:24:02. > :24:06.the council. I am not sure this is the solution. People sort of in the
:24:07. > :24:10.Twitter ageks social media, is a much more gal tarian way of people
:24:11. > :24:15.communicating with each other locally. It seems a bit artificial
:24:16. > :24:21.to create the stations. I have not heard anyone stay that the launch of
:24:22. > :24:26.a local television will be a sudden earthquake in local democracy, we
:24:27. > :24:32.are talking about 19 new newsrooms up and down the country with new
:24:33. > :24:40.journalists. As of today, there are hundreds of Andrew Neils applying
:24:41. > :24:46.for jobs! The viewers have just gone... That's the generation. We
:24:47. > :24:53.are a generation. We started our careers in local radio, or local
:24:54. > :25:01.newspapers and that's dried up and this opens that up. These newsrooms
:25:02. > :25:21.aren't going to be full of Oxbridge graduates and these will be demock
:25:22. > :25:30.ra ra tising. John F Kennedy was assassinated 50
:25:31. > :25:37.years ago at 12. 30 local time. What is the Kennedy legacy? Did he change
:25:38. > :25:43.things? Can any of today's politicians hold such an iconic role
:25:44. > :25:54.in the world? Here is look back on the presidency like no other.
:25:55. > :26:07.Ask not what your country can do for you, can what you can do for your
:26:08. > :26:10.country. # I heard there was a secret call #
:26:11. > :26:14.We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things. Not
:26:15. > :26:28.because they are easy, but because they are hard.
:26:29. > :26:36.NEWSREEL: Within the past week, unmistakable evidence established
:26:37. > :26:49.the fact that a series of offensive sites is now in preparation on that
:26:50. > :27:03.imprisoned island. Today, in the world of freedom, the
:27:04. > :27:12.proudest boost is... Mrs Kennedy is presented with a bouquet of red
:27:13. > :27:17.roses. The streets are lined with spectators waiting for their chance
:27:18. > :27:21.to see the president. It appears as if something happened in the
:27:22. > :27:31.motorcade group. I repeat, something has happened in the motorcade group.
:27:32. > :27:40.The President was hit in the head. That's an unconfirmed report that
:27:41. > :27:45.the president was hit in the head. From Dallas Texas, the flash
:27:46. > :27:55.apparently official, President Kennedy died at 1pm Central Standard
:27:56. > :27:59.Time. 2pm Eastern Standard Time, some 38 memberships ago.
:28:00. > :28:21.-- minutes ago. And the last image of these power
:28:22. > :28:38.pictures was the President's young son saluting his father's coffin.
:28:39. > :28:42.Welcome to both of you. Aren't these pictures incredibly powerful. I
:28:43. > :28:46.remember the day myself when it came through and it was early evening
:28:47. > :28:49.news on the BBC at the time. If one wants to cut away from the emotion
:28:50. > :28:54.though and 50 years later, the reason we are talking about him
:28:55. > :28:59.today is because he died when he did. Yes. If he had survived his
:29:00. > :29:03.presidency was in trouble. It wasn't sure he was going to be re-elected
:29:04. > :29:07.and most of the 21 major Bills he was trying to get through Congress
:29:08. > :29:13.were getting nowhere? That's right and his untimely death puts him
:29:14. > :29:17.outside history doesn't it? You can ask yourself of Tony Blair if he
:29:18. > :29:22.died two years in, what would we be saying about him now? I don't think
:29:23. > :29:27.it is just that. I think he was a brilliant speech maker who spoke for
:29:28. > :29:34.a whole nation and he did capture, he had had that sense of a new
:29:35. > :29:37.generation and we didn't have time to be disappointed in him, but he
:29:38. > :29:41.did capture something important about that particular time in
:29:42. > :29:46.history. We didn't have time to be dus appointed in him, but also,
:29:47. > :29:51.unlike today, we didn't know everything about him? That's right.
:29:52. > :29:58.We didn't write about his father being a bootlegger. We the didn't
:29:59. > :30:02.know he was a serial philanderer and all that would have come out today?
:30:03. > :30:07.That's right. The important thing about JFK was the new generation. I
:30:08. > :30:13.did a bit of homework as you can imagine here facing you! It is
:30:14. > :30:20.always a good idea? He was the first American president to be born in the
:30:21. > :30:25.20th century. Y.. A post-war generation? For various reasons
:30:26. > :30:28.apart for his personal charisma, he would be remembered and he did
:30:29. > :30:42.inspire people with a fresh sense of optimism when he became president in
:30:43. > :30:48.1960. The terrible pain is that it was his death, and particularly the
:30:49. > :30:50.manner of his death, that unleashed all lease changes which allowed
:30:51. > :30:55.President Johnson to get the civil rights bills through, the tax
:30:56. > :31:02.cutting bills, to begin the big society. Kennedy had wanted to do a
:31:03. > :31:06.fair bit of that but Johnson went much further. That is a very good
:31:07. > :31:14.point. We will never know what would have happened. The point raised by
:31:15. > :31:19.Kwasi Kwarteng is very important. He had a real experience of the war and
:31:20. > :31:26.a horror of war. He talked about the tyranny of struggle against disease
:31:27. > :31:31.and war. The career politician of today does not quite have the
:31:32. > :31:37.real-life career behind them. He was a great friend of Britain. He had a
:31:38. > :31:45.very anti-British, Irish father, who had actually told Roosevelt, they
:31:46. > :31:55.get Britain. JFK was very pro-this country. It is good to contrast him
:31:56. > :31:59.with his father. Somehow he managed to project a kind of innocence, if
:32:00. > :32:05.you like. We know that his private life was chequered and all the rest
:32:06. > :32:10.of it. He projected an optimism and innocence. He was a great friend of
:32:11. > :32:19.Britain. We saw clips of him in Germany. He was a Cold War warrior.
:32:20. > :32:25.He touched people beyond America. Don't you think it is that which
:32:26. > :32:29.politicians now can learn from? There is a danger in going down the
:32:30. > :32:40.route of fear and smear is we were talking about earlier. That was
:32:41. > :32:47.President Obama. He got a second term. Absolutely. I think if JFK had
:32:48. > :32:56.a second term, I think he would have got into a lot of the difficulties
:32:57. > :33:00.that Obama hands. He was always a little bit equivocal on civil
:33:01. > :33:08.rights. He needed the Southern Democrats. We would have seen how
:33:09. > :33:12.far he would have gone. Where he was not equivocal was on the subject of
:33:13. > :33:17.Cold War. He believed it could be contained. The Cuban missile crisis,
:33:18. > :33:22.the days of lonely struggle with his brother against military advisers,
:33:23. > :33:27.that was his seminal moment. It was important. It changed the view of
:33:28. > :33:31.the world. This was a global issue. Actually, the legacy of that in
:33:32. > :33:41.terms of the Non-Proliferation Treaty, that was huge. People seem
:33:42. > :33:46.to forget he fought the 1960 election against Mr Nixon. He said
:33:47. > :33:54.there was a missile gap and America had to build more missiles. Turns
:33:55. > :33:58.out he was totally wrong. The one thing that comes through is the
:33:59. > :34:02.eloquence of the man, the authority of the man. Even when you know
:34:03. > :34:08.everything, it is hard to stop thinking, that is a decent person.
:34:09. > :34:13.Politics is about leadership and charisma. I go back to the point I
:34:14. > :34:17.was making. If it gets down to the lowest common denominator smear and
:34:18. > :34:24.counterclaim, everyone gets buried in the jungle. The leaders who win
:34:25. > :34:29.rise above it. They are authentic. We are going to have to leave it
:34:30. > :34:34.there. I could talk with you for the next three hours. We might still
:34:35. > :34:38.have some viewers if we did. Coming up... A regular look at what has
:34:39. > :34:44.been going on in the European arena. Now it is time to say goodbye to my
:34:45. > :34:49.guest of the day, Rachel is a vest. We are going to be focusing on
:34:50. > :34:53.Europe and discussing the EU budget and joining the European Union. Here
:34:54. > :35:01.is our guide from the latest in Europe in just 60 seconds. EU
:35:02. > :35:06.governments agreed to the European Commission plan to delay the auction
:35:07. > :35:10.of the next round of permits for the emissions trading scheme. The aim is
:35:11. > :35:15.to push up the price of the permit and encourage low carbon energy.
:35:16. > :35:18.MEPs voted overwhelmingly for the European Parliament to be given the
:35:19. > :35:23.right to decide where it is based. It is a victory for the single-seat
:35:24. > :35:26.campaign, he wants to scrap the Strasbourg parliament and make
:35:27. > :35:31.Brussels the official seat. The Spanish ambassador was summoned to
:35:32. > :35:33.the Foreign Office to explain why a Spanish survey ship entered
:35:34. > :35:40.territorial waters and defied orders to leave from the Royal Navy for 22
:35:41. > :35:44.hours. The European Parliament committee for economic and monetary
:35:45. > :35:48.affairs backed a proposal to give every EU citizens the right to have
:35:49. > :35:53.a basic bank account with a debit card. MEPs voted in favour of a new
:35:54. > :35:56.40% target for the number of women on company boards. Backed by a
:35:57. > :36:08.threat to dissolve companies that do not meet the quota. With us now for
:36:09. > :36:13.the next 30 minutes, I am joined by Gerard Batten and the leader of the
:36:14. > :36:27.Labour only members of the European Parliament. This is about 40% target
:36:28. > :36:33.of number of women. Would it be compulsory for companies to have 40%
:36:34. > :36:38.women? That is what the report said. However, we think legislation
:36:39. > :36:43.should be the last resort. It is ridiculous that most companies do
:36:44. > :36:46.not have enough women. 20% on the FTSE 100 companies have women on the
:36:47. > :36:52.board. All the reports show that when women are on billboards, it
:36:53. > :36:59.could be better. Do you think in the end it would have to be compulsory?
:37:00. > :37:07.It does not work on a voluntary capacity. Putting aside the pros and
:37:08. > :37:13.cons for doing this, what has it got to do with Europe? I thought you
:37:14. > :37:18.might ask that. If this is about big companies and many of those big
:37:19. > :37:23.companies have subsidiaries all over Europe... The boards are based in
:37:24. > :37:27.London or Paris. It is a problem across Europe. I would prefer the
:37:28. > :37:32.government to tackle this will stop if not, it has to be done at
:37:33. > :37:42.European level. Women are fed up with it. I assume this is a red rag
:37:43. > :37:47.to a bull. I had 30 years working in the commercial well before I was
:37:48. > :37:51.elected to anything. I had women bosses. There was never a shortage
:37:52. > :37:57.of women going in for positions and they got them on merit. Businesses
:37:58. > :38:03.want to be successful. The reason why there are always women is
:38:04. > :38:07.because they are too stupid? Maybe they are not applying for the jobs
:38:08. > :38:11.for other reasons. If you are elevated to that position, it is
:38:12. > :38:20.very long hours and very arduous and lots of men do not want to it. You
:38:21. > :38:24.could argue for and against. It is interesting you said, I wish the
:38:25. > :38:28.national government would do it. We elect that government and there is a
:38:29. > :38:35.debate. If the government that we elect do not do it, we in Europe
:38:36. > :38:39.will do it anyway. Something has to be done. Women are fed up. It is
:38:40. > :38:53.difficult for UKIP to say they have no women any peas. Do they have
:38:54. > :39:08.none? They have no women MEPs. We had two and they resigned. Godfrey
:39:09. > :39:14.has a particular sense of humour. You must not take it too literally.
:39:15. > :39:23.I am sure you met him. I realise I made a big mistake going there. Is
:39:24. > :39:28.this going to happen? I do not think so. We are coming up to European
:39:29. > :39:33.election and I do not think we are going to get that far. You also want
:39:34. > :39:38.to impose Draconian measures. One of them is dissolving the company. This
:39:39. > :39:44.is what the EU is good at, destroying jobs. It is about sending
:39:45. > :39:48.a message to these companies. We will see what happens. Remember when
:39:49. > :39:53.David Cameron wanted to force cuts on the European budget in February.
:39:54. > :40:00.The Prime Minister said, the British public can be proud that we have cut
:40:01. > :40:03.the seven-year credit card limit for the European Union for the first
:40:04. > :40:15.time ever. It has taken a toll now. It will be finally ratified. Months
:40:16. > :40:21.of hard bargaining ended. The seven-year budget has been
:40:22. > :40:26.approved. It is a 3.5% cut in EU spending. The cuts particularly
:40:27. > :40:33.affect EU spending on European polar regions. This is called cohesion.
:40:34. > :40:36.Major transnational infrastructure projects, help for poorer regions
:40:37. > :40:41.and agricultural subsidies remain the largest area of EU spending. The
:40:42. > :40:47.budget is equivalent to 1% of the 28 member states gross national income.
:40:48. > :40:50.The ratification of the budget has been welcomed by the chief
:40:51. > :40:55.negotiator of the European Parliament. It has provided
:40:56. > :41:02.stability within the EU. There seems to have been a certain amount of
:41:03. > :41:06.fudge. As the European Parliament we accepted the level that the council
:41:07. > :41:13.decided. Because that level is so long, longer than previous years, we
:41:14. > :41:17.tried to make it more operational by introducing more flexibility and
:41:18. > :41:23.introducing the possibility to have a revision in 2016 and by avoiding
:41:24. > :41:28.some payment of the previous periods should be transferred to the next
:41:29. > :41:36.period. We asked for more payment in 2013. That makes it the framework
:41:37. > :41:49.notwithstanding it. It can work and can permit the European Union.
:41:50. > :41:55.Earlier this week, this man was elected the leader in the European
:41:56. > :42:03.Parliament. I was expecting you to congratulate me. I happy with the
:42:04. > :42:08.3.5% cut? This is the first time ever we have seen a cut with the EU
:42:09. > :42:12.budget overall. Both with the Parliament, the commission and
:42:13. > :42:15.Parliament asking for an increase. The commission asked for a slight
:42:16. > :42:21.increase and the Parliament a bigger one. What we have now done is set a
:42:22. > :42:26.precedent. This is the first ever cut of an EU budget, whether it is
:42:27. > :42:31.the seven-year budget for the annual budget. It is a great president. We
:42:32. > :42:38.can carry it on to make sure we are spending money more effectively. Is
:42:39. > :42:42.it a bit of a fudge? There is a revision clause which will mean a
:42:43. > :42:49.review of the income resources in 2016. Could it be shut up there? The
:42:50. > :42:59.Parliament can try, just as they tried today to allay the whole deal.
:43:00. > :43:10.We know that. A group. That. Hasn't David Cameron done very well rested
:43:11. > :43:16.Mark there is a slight decrease in the budget. -- done very well? There
:43:17. > :43:21.is a slight decrease in the budget. Some other measures that were voted
:43:22. > :43:25.on yesterday had, at current prices. As we go through the next seven
:43:26. > :43:29.years, those prices will increase due to inflation so they will be
:43:30. > :43:34.coming back and asking for more money. I think we should have done
:43:35. > :43:53.more. I would like to see more taken from the CHP and put into
:43:54. > :44:10.innovation. -- CAP. Tony Blair made an attempt to negotiate part of the
:44:11. > :44:18.rebate in returned for -- in return for improved agricultural policy. It
:44:19. > :44:25.failed. My understanding is it has also come down as a percentage of
:44:26. > :44:31.overall EU spending. It has. It is only 1.5% of GDP and 40% of the
:44:32. > :44:40.budget. It is ridiculous. We need to prioritise that. If we joined in
:44:41. > :44:46.1957, this would not have happened. This is a whole other discussion.
:44:47. > :44:52.Are you concerned that some of the poorer areas of the EU look like the
:44:53. > :44:58.ones to take the brunt of the reduction? It is concerning. In
:44:59. > :45:02.these to be fair and equitable. Some of the Portuguese say we do not
:45:03. > :45:08.support them on this. I would like them to use that money in a
:45:09. > :45:12.different way to make sure the country is growing. The funny thing
:45:13. > :45:21.about the Common agricultural policy is it is not agreed a cross-party.
:45:22. > :45:30.-- it is agreed across the parties. When Mr Cameron goes to Brussels, is
:45:31. > :45:31.agricultural policy - is it one area he should aim to repatriate back to
:45:32. > :45:41.Westminster? The Government is saying let's look
:45:42. > :45:48.at these different areas, but there are many loud voices over here
:45:49. > :45:53.saying we have to repatriate part of agriculture. What are you going to
:45:54. > :45:57.do as leader now of this unruly mob? It is funny when you become a
:45:58. > :46:00.leader, other leaders congratulated me and some said you will enjoy it
:46:01. > :46:06.for a couple of days and then you have got to get on with the work and
:46:07. > :46:18.enjoy the poisoned cal lass. What's the gsh What's the plan? People are
:46:19. > :46:22.talking about EU immigration. And people are worried about welfare.
:46:23. > :46:27.People are worried about it, but it doesn't mean there is anything you
:46:28. > :46:36.can do? This is one of the things, can we be cleverer? You have to
:46:37. > :46:42.protect your own national interests and you can't do this. We cannot
:46:43. > :46:46.stop these people coming. A referendum has been promised. While
:46:47. > :46:50.we are in the EU, you know, if you want to leave, what happens is we
:46:51. > :46:54.have to say, what can we do while we are here now? The answer to that in
:46:55. > :46:58.January next year, the Government and the Conservative Party can do
:46:59. > :47:01.nothing about giving another 29 billion people the right to turn up.
:47:02. > :47:08.That's what you are saying and that's true. This is why we have to
:47:09. > :47:14.leave the European Union. Richard Ashworth was a europhile. How would
:47:15. > :47:23.we classify you? You have to wait and see. People always try and
:47:24. > :47:27.pigeon hole me. I would assume you are the one who knows best. How
:47:28. > :47:31.would we classify you? I am sceptical of the current European
:47:32. > :47:34.project. In 2005 when I was elected people talked about creating a
:47:35. > :47:40.United States of Europe and it don't want to see that. If if there was no
:47:41. > :47:44.renegotiation, if it was the choice between the status quo of our
:47:45. > :47:47.membership now and getting out, how would you vote? If there was a
:47:48. > :47:54.referendum tomorrow, no change. I would be tempted to vote to leave.
:47:55. > :48:00.That's why I think we have renegotiate. How high would the
:48:01. > :48:04.temptation be? Seven or eight. I would be tempted to vote. That's why
:48:05. > :48:16.we need a renegotiation. No one is going to renegotiate. Mr
:48:17. > :48:23.Barroso said it. Well, he won't be around. We can conclude he is not
:48:24. > :48:30.Richard Ashworth? Absolutely. Perhaps the only thing more
:48:31. > :48:36.frustrating been having your travel plans disrupted by an airline, when
:48:37. > :48:43.it comes to the way airlines deal with delays or passengers who have
:48:44. > :49:00.been bumped off because the flight as been overbooked. How will new
:49:01. > :49:05.proposed plans come to pass? Personal story, I was flying back to
:49:06. > :49:10.London from Amsterdam a few weeks ago with KLM, I was told my flight
:49:11. > :49:14.was overbooked and I wouldn't be going anywhere until the following
:49:15. > :49:18.morning. I wasn't best pleased, but when I went to the customer services
:49:19. > :49:23.desk, there were passengers from all over Europe who were stuck. Every
:49:24. > :49:29.flight you travel on is over booked and it is not an accident. It is the
:49:30. > :49:33.company policy of almost every major European airline. Usually people
:49:34. > :49:37.think it is a one off occurrence, it just happened. It is not. On
:49:38. > :49:43.particularly on busy routes, you find it quite a bit. So for me, it
:49:44. > :49:47.is a bigger problem than is admitted by the airlines and it is a bigger
:49:48. > :49:49.problem than the travelling public understand.
:49:50. > :49:56.It is not just over booking and it is not just KLM who declined to give
:49:57. > :49:59.us an interview. Airline policies on delays, and cancellation are in the
:50:00. > :50:02.sights of European Parliament and the commission. They are in the
:50:03. > :50:06.process of strengthening EU regulation 261. It is supposed to
:50:07. > :50:12.safeguard passengers' rights, about you Brian and his colleagues fear it
:50:13. > :50:16.is barely worth the paper it is written on. The airlines have driven
:50:17. > :50:19.a coach and horses through the legislation and the reason why we
:50:20. > :50:22.are looking at the regulation again is because the regulation has been
:50:23. > :50:26.abused by the airlines to the detriment of the travelling public.
:50:27. > :50:30.As you might expect, the airline industry doesn't quite see it like
:50:31. > :50:34.that. Their European trade body does accept the rules will change, it is
:50:35. > :50:43.a question of by how much? Please don't make those rules so
:50:44. > :50:46.strict that you cripple the industry and ultimately harm the interests of
:50:47. > :50:54.the passenger which could actually happen if the rules are so strict
:50:55. > :50:57.that we are heavily burdened with them and acceptable compromise will
:50:58. > :51:03.be difficult to reach. Having said that, the commission proposal is
:51:04. > :51:07.really pretty fair and balanced as far as we're concerned. Which is why
:51:08. > :51:12.MEPs think the commission's plan to enforce the existing rules rather
:51:13. > :51:23.than add to them is lame. I don't think they go anywhere near far
:51:24. > :51:26.enough. The commission has failed to recognise 261 is about passenger
:51:27. > :51:30.rights, not airline rights The timetable to get it through is
:51:31. > :51:33.tight. It has to be signed of by the Parliament, the commission and the
:51:34. > :51:37.Council of Ministers and that worries consumers groups We would
:51:38. > :51:41.support the European Parliament approach. We are much more concerned
:51:42. > :51:45.about the council position, with the member states, with the Governments
:51:46. > :51:50.because they seem to wish to water down the protection that would be
:51:51. > :51:54.granted to air passengers. We see there is inference of the airline
:51:55. > :51:58.companies to member states. The reform maybe on the runway, but it
:51:59. > :52:03.is not certain to takeoff, in Europe, as with flights, change can
:52:04. > :52:08.be subject to delay, re-routing and cancellation.
:52:09. > :52:12.His flight back was delayed! Have you ever been bumped? It is
:52:13. > :52:16.something what happens regularly. What about yourself? I haven't,
:52:17. > :52:19.Andrew. In America, when you get bumped, they have a bidding war.
:52:20. > :52:26.They say, if you don't take this flight, we will give you $500 and
:52:27. > :52:32.start at $50 and it goes up to ?500. Do they do that in Europe? I was on
:52:33. > :52:34.a flight where someone as bumped off and they were offered compensation
:52:35. > :52:38.and another flight. Are the changes going to make a difference? Well,
:52:39. > :52:41.they could be stronger. This is about passengers rights and it is
:52:42. > :52:46.important and it is something that that is Europe-wide. This is one of
:52:47. > :52:53.the benefits of being part of the EU. Is this something that would
:52:54. > :52:58.have to be tackled by the EU? They should be done properly by
:52:59. > :53:02.inter-governmental agreements so national governments can agree these
:53:03. > :53:06.things across borders and that's what used to happen. I don't see why
:53:07. > :53:11.are that couldn't happen in the future. Will you be voting for this?
:53:12. > :53:16.No, we will abstain. We never vote for more EU legislation as a matter
:53:17. > :53:19.of principle. What we did in October when there was a directive before
:53:20. > :53:25.the Parliament to increase pilots hours and health and safety is as
:53:26. > :53:29.far more important and we were the only party to oppose that. Is that
:53:30. > :53:34.right to vote for increased pilots hours? Well, this was about
:53:35. > :53:37.Europe-wide and it meant that member States could do better than that if
:53:38. > :53:42.they wanted to. It didn't stop member states from improving that
:53:43. > :53:46.position. It created a minimum standard. We had strong
:53:47. > :53:51.representation from the unions. It was not something they felt... The
:53:52. > :53:54.pilots union is strong and sets standard. If you seen the
:53:55. > :53:57.documentaries about the long hours that pilots work and the bad
:53:58. > :54:02.conditions they sleep in when they are not flying. There was a story
:54:03. > :54:05.that two fell asleep at the same time? There is no point if doing
:54:06. > :54:08.this if you abstain. We voted against that motion. Let's move on
:54:09. > :54:14.because Albania is waiting in the wings. It looks like Macedonia is
:54:15. > :54:19.further ahead in the queue. Iceland are not really bothered anymore and
:54:20. > :54:27.Ukraine said they are not interested. They are still over the
:54:28. > :54:34.moon in zag Zagreb. How does a country join the EU? Here is Adam
:54:35. > :54:46.with his latest of the A to Z of Europe.
:54:47. > :54:51.How do you get into the EU? I've come to mini Europe in brust les to
:54:52. > :54:57.find out. -- Brussels to find out. First a country has to fit
:54:58. > :55:04.fundamental criteria, they were written in Copenhagen in the 1990s,
:55:05. > :55:08.the country has to have respect for law, a fully functioning market
:55:09. > :55:15.economy. If a country broadly measures up it
:55:16. > :55:21.becomes a candidate and then it is put under the magifying glass with
:55:22. > :55:26.the EU telling it what reforms have to be made. Finally, there is a
:55:27. > :55:32.treaty. All of this takes ages. Just ask the ambassador for the most
:55:33. > :55:36.recent arrival, Croatia. It started in 2000 when there was an opening
:55:37. > :55:42.towards the EU prospective of Croatia. Our formal application to
:55:43. > :55:46.become a member was sub smitted in -- submitted in 2003, the
:55:47. > :55:51.negotiations started in 2005 and ended in 2011 and we entered the
:55:52. > :55:56.union in 2013. I would say, it was 13 years of hard work and personal
:55:57. > :56:02.sacrifice, but in our case, 13 ended up being a lucky number.
:56:03. > :56:05.Inevitably, politics come into it. For example, EU officials wanted to
:56:06. > :56:09.delay the accession of Greece, but they were overruled by the
:56:10. > :56:17.politicians. The expansion into Eastern Europe in the early 2000s
:56:18. > :56:22.was champ beyond by -- championed by Britain and others weren't
:56:23. > :56:25.welcoming. While we are now potentially ambling towards the
:56:26. > :56:31.exit, there are plenty of countries who would love a spot in mini Europe
:56:32. > :56:35.like Albania. At the end of the process, we will see we have
:56:36. > :56:40.transformed ourselves, our standards of living. We will see that our
:56:41. > :56:45.industries and the other sectors of the economies, they will have, they
:56:46. > :56:50.will be better placed to benefit from the possibilities that the
:56:51. > :56:55.single market, the European single market offers to them. Some people
:56:56. > :56:58.say enlargement is the EU's most successful foreign policy because
:56:59. > :57:02.the lure of membership encourages countries to develop. Others fear
:57:03. > :57:13.that Europe is becoming quite the opposite of this place. Far too big.
:57:14. > :57:18.I would love to go there. Who would you love to see come in next? Serbia
:57:19. > :57:25.is a good candidate and if it brings peace and stability to these
:57:26. > :57:29.countries and good governance. Is it fit for purpose? We have to make
:57:30. > :57:34.sure it is before we consider it joining in.
:57:35. > :57:37.I don't mind who comes in, as long as we can leave first. They can take
:57:38. > :57:41.our place! It is significant that Ukraine which looked like was moving
:57:42. > :57:46.towards Europe, I would suggest Moscow is putting the heavies on it?
:57:47. > :57:51.It sounds like it, yes. They were concerned about it in Moscow. It is
:57:52. > :57:58.a shame. They have put the frighteners on it to do with trade
:57:59. > :58:03.if they join. And energy as well. Quite a lot of countries who joined
:58:04. > :58:08.in the past weren't fit to join. The whole thing was fudged because the
:58:09. > :58:14.EU's motto ought to be wider and wider shall our bounds be set. That
:58:15. > :58:21.was British policy. It is called the union now, not the European Union in
:58:22. > :58:25.the treaty and I have been to meetings where they talk about
:58:26. > :58:33.long-term African countries. Every year, it is not ridiculous. We had
:58:34. > :58:36.Croatia. We could take the 13 colonies back. I feel that's their
:58:37. > :58:41.long-term objective. You have got Turkey lined up and Croatia came in
:58:42. > :58:50.and long-term... That's a long way away. It is. If you get your way, we
:58:51. > :58:52.will be out? I houp so. -- hope so. That's to my guests. That's it for
:58:53. > :58:59.now. Bye-bye.