:00:37. > :00:41.Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. On the show today:
:00:42. > :00:44.Iain Duncan Smith tells people on benefits that they must speak
:00:45. > :00:48.English or see their payments cut. We will have the details.
:00:49. > :00:53.Could Britain become Europe's top destination for prostitution? That's
:00:54. > :00:57.the warning from a Labour politician who says the law should change. We
:00:58. > :01:00.will talk to her, and a former sex worker.
:01:01. > :01:03.Jo reports from Berlin on Angela Merkel's new coalition government,
:01:04. > :01:09.which should get a final go-ahead this weekend. What does it mean for
:01:10. > :01:15.Europe? Could the world be turned upside
:01:16. > :01:18.down in 2014? We will be gazing into the Daily Politics crystal ball and
:01:19. > :01:28.giving you our top political predictions for the year ahead.
:01:29. > :01:32.All that in the next hour. And with us for the next half an hour is
:01:33. > :01:37.Carla Buzasi, editor in chief of the online newspaper Huffington Post UK.
:01:38. > :01:42.Welcome. Let's start this morning by talking about the government's plans
:01:43. > :01:44.to cut down on benefits tourism. The Work and Pensions Secretary, Iain
:01:45. > :01:48.Duncan Smith, says that migrants whose English is deemed to be so
:01:49. > :01:52.poor that they would struggle to find work in this country could be
:01:53. > :01:55.denied benefits. The announcement comes just a couple of weeks before
:01:56. > :02:09.restrictions on immigration from Romania and Bulgaria are lifted.
:02:10. > :02:14.Our correspondent joins me now. Can you give us an idea of what is being
:02:15. > :02:19.proposed here? It is not just being proposed, it is being rolled out in
:02:20. > :02:29.Jobcentres across England, Scotland and Wales this week and next. It is
:02:30. > :02:33.a tougher habit jewel residents' test which migrants who come into
:02:34. > :02:37.the country will have to pass before they can claim benefits. The idea
:02:38. > :02:41.was to make sure people are coming here because they want to contribute
:02:42. > :02:49.to the economy, not take advantage of the benefits system. The staff in
:02:50. > :02:53.the Jobcentres will now be able to introduce a new range of questions.
:02:54. > :02:58.One of them will be about whether the person's grasp of English is
:02:59. > :03:02.good enough for them to have a realistic chance of getting work
:03:03. > :03:06.here. The staff will also be able to look at things like that family
:03:07. > :03:11.connections, housing arrangements, how long they have been in the
:03:12. > :03:15.country and so on. So clearly, someone with little English who does
:03:16. > :03:18.not seem to have been making an effort to look for work before they
:03:19. > :03:25.come into the country, has nowhere to live and has no family to stay
:03:26. > :03:30.with is unlikely to get sufficient documentation to claim benefits,
:03:31. > :03:35.whereas if you have obviously been looking for work, you have job
:03:36. > :03:38.interviews coming up, somewhere to stay and relatives you can stay
:03:39. > :03:43.with, you are more likely to get it. This is about what Iain Duncan
:03:44. > :03:50.Smith calls cracking down on benefits tourism, which many people
:03:51. > :03:55.have argued about how much there is. Has the government given an
:03:56. > :03:59.indication that it is sure this would be legal under the Treaty of
:04:00. > :04:05.Rome free movement of labour provisions? Well, even the old test
:04:06. > :04:08.is already being challenged by officials in the European
:04:09. > :04:13.Commission. They are already planning to take the UK to court
:04:14. > :04:16.because they feel it discriminates against workers from other parts of
:04:17. > :04:21.the European Union. Iain Duncan Smith's people say they will fight
:04:22. > :04:32.that robustly, and they are confident that their new test can
:04:33. > :04:36.also be defended. Is the requirement to speak English properly going to
:04:37. > :04:42.apply to British people as well? It is not applied to British people at
:04:43. > :04:44.the moment, but there is a wider look at the whole benefit system
:04:45. > :04:48.going on ahead of the next election. George Osborne said to the select
:04:49. > :04:53.committee yesterday that billions more would have to be found from
:04:54. > :04:57.benefits. One thing they are looking at is the benefits cap, whether it
:04:58. > :05:03.could be brought down from the current level of 26,000. That is
:05:04. > :05:08.being considered. What do you make of this? I am
:05:09. > :05:21.terrified about the rhetoric around this. People are coming here as
:05:22. > :05:25.tourists, it is all a sop to the people's fears, and yet we know
:05:26. > :05:28.migrants are great for this country. I feel it is a knee jerk
:05:29. > :05:34.political reaction rather than looking at the issues. But they are
:05:35. > :05:38.clearly worried that a lot of Bulgarians and Romanians are going
:05:39. > :05:46.to come. They don't know, but they are terrified that it will fall back
:05:47. > :05:50.on them. We have interviewed people in those countries. We have spoken
:05:51. > :05:53.to someone who is coming and already has interviews lined up, and we are
:05:54. > :05:57.going to follow her through next year, because we want to see what
:05:58. > :06:02.the reality is. There is the idea that we are going to be flooded by
:06:03. > :06:05.people from other countries who will take our benefits, and nobody is
:06:06. > :06:10.interrogating whether that is true. Do you think they should be able to
:06:11. > :06:14.speak English? It will obviously help get a job. But what about our
:06:15. > :06:22.people who retire to Spain. They can't speak Spanish. But they are
:06:23. > :06:27.not taking benefits. But they need access to benefits they get over
:06:28. > :06:31.there. They have access to the health care system, that is a quid
:06:32. > :06:36.pro quo. We have to be careful that it is not one rule for us and
:06:37. > :06:44.another for everyone else. What is wrong with that? Right, time for a
:06:45. > :06:48.quiz. What does David Cameron want for Christmas? A new smartphone with
:06:49. > :07:04.megapixel camera? A Nigella Lawson cookbook? A Mumford Sons CD?
:07:05. > :07:09.Awesome squidgy tennis balls? Do you know the answer? I could have a
:07:10. > :07:12.guess. Don't. Now, should it be illegal to pay for sex? Last week,
:07:13. > :07:18.France became the latest European country to decide it should be. The
:07:19. > :07:21.French government is following the so-called Nordic model where it is
:07:22. > :07:24.the purchaser and not the seller of sex who faces criminal action. In
:07:25. > :07:29.the UK, paying for a prostitute is not illegal, but soliciting, curb
:07:30. > :07:33.crawling and running a brothel are. Our laws are increasingly out of
:07:34. > :07:36.step with the rest of Europe, with more countries like France and
:07:37. > :07:42.Northern Ireland following the example of Sweden, which changed its
:07:43. > :07:45.laws in 1998 and is said to have cut street prostitution by two thirds.
:07:46. > :07:52.Even countries like the Netherlands and Germany, where prostitution has
:07:53. > :07:54.been legal for a number of years, are becoming disillusioned and are
:07:55. > :07:59.considering tightening their laws. It means the UK could be out of step
:08:00. > :08:03.with the rest of Europe and a number of MPs, peers and women's groups
:08:04. > :08:09.said Britain could become a magnet for prostitution unless we change
:08:10. > :08:12.our laws. It could put pressure on Theresa May to tighten prostitution
:08:13. > :08:18.laws as part of the government 's human trafficking bill due to be
:08:19. > :08:21.published this month. But senior police officers are already warning
:08:22. > :08:25.that any change in the law would be difficult to enforce. I am joined
:08:26. > :08:28.now by the Labour MEP Mary Honeyball, who wants the UK to
:08:29. > :08:31.follow the rest of Europe in changing our laws, and Charlie
:08:32. > :08:38.Daniels, a former sex worker who wrote a book on her experiences.
:08:39. > :08:41.Mary Honeyball, the police chief in charge of dealing with prostitution
:08:42. > :08:46.in England and Wales says changing the law to prosecute those buying
:08:47. > :08:52.sex will" drive prostitutes into dark and unsafe areas of our
:08:53. > :08:57.cities". Well, they already are often in dark and unsafe areas. Of
:08:58. > :09:04.course, the police will have a respect on this, but as you said in
:09:05. > :09:10.the introduction, a lot of European governments as well as myself now
:09:11. > :09:13.believe that we should be looking at reducing prostitution and at the
:09:14. > :09:19.same time reducing human trafficking, which is closely linked
:09:20. > :09:29.to it. Some statistics say as much as 90% of those women who work in
:09:30. > :09:32.prosecution have been trafficked. But prostitution and trafficking are
:09:33. > :09:37.of course connected, but they are also separate issues. Trafficking is
:09:38. > :09:42.illegal. Prostitution has a different set of laws. We have the
:09:43. > :09:47.power at the moment to deal with trafficking if we choose to do so.
:09:48. > :09:52.You want to change the law on prostitution. There is evidence from
:09:53. > :09:56.Sweden, where they have had this law since 1996, that if you criminalise
:09:57. > :10:02.the buyer, usually a man, the number of women trafficked will go down.
:10:03. > :10:08.But the evidence is that they are off the streets, but they could have
:10:09. > :10:16.gone elsewhere. The Danish are not keen on this. But the police officer
:10:17. > :10:21.who made those comments, it is the streets that are the dark and
:10:22. > :10:26.dangerous places. What do you think? I am not a former sex worker, I am a
:10:27. > :10:32.current sex worker and I defend the right of any woman who chooses to
:10:33. > :10:37.sell her body behind closed doors, causing no other in legal issues.
:10:38. > :10:42.And what is your attitude to the changes that Mary wants to see? I am
:10:43. > :10:47.jaded with this argument. I have had 20 years of people suggesting
:10:48. > :10:51.decriminalisation, changing this or that law. There is an obvious
:10:52. > :10:55.solution. But it does not suit politicians. It is positive
:10:56. > :11:02.intervention with young people in care. 90% of young people in care
:11:03. > :11:10.who are in institutes and prisons and the street girls, have spent
:11:11. > :11:22.time in care. We need to prevent, not cure. But, clarify, are you
:11:23. > :11:27.against those who pay for sex? I am against the criminalisation of
:11:28. > :11:30.clients for the indoor markets. I do feel that there might be some
:11:31. > :11:34.discussion that is feasible for those women who work on the streets,
:11:35. > :11:39.because the clients who are outdoors those who want a woman without a
:11:40. > :11:46.condom or want to kill women or want the woman in a vulnerable situation.
:11:47. > :11:48.There is no room for those clients. The Mary Honeyball, how would you
:11:49. > :11:56.enforce this if you were to criminalise the client? In the end,
:11:57. > :11:59.this is an act between two people. There is money involved, but there
:12:00. > :12:04.has to be consent as well. If neither of them is prepared to admit
:12:05. > :12:09.to money passing hands, how do you enforce it? It is being enforced in
:12:10. > :12:15.Sweden, so there are lessons to be learnt from that. Also, I totally
:12:16. > :12:20.take what Charlie is saying about sex workers who work indoors. That
:12:21. > :12:25.is maybe a different market. But in street prostitution, there is a lot
:12:26. > :12:30.of violent and rape involved. There are crimes continually being
:12:31. > :12:35.committed. If you look at the trafficking side, that is a crime as
:12:36. > :12:42.well. So there is a huge amount of criminal behaviour happening which
:12:43. > :12:47.is already persecuted. In a sense, criminalising the buyer is part of
:12:48. > :12:52.that package. The police manage to deal with the other parts of it, so
:12:53. > :12:57.this is a case of the police creating difficulty which may not be
:12:58. > :13:01.there. I know we have some common ground here, so forgive me, but
:13:02. > :13:09.don't you think that if we strip all this back and look at the women who
:13:10. > :13:14.are exploited, raped, trafficked and abused, we don't seem to be
:13:15. > :13:18.concentrating on them. There is a core of lobbyists who are feminist.
:13:19. > :13:22.Forgive me for saying, but you said on your own blog that you don't find
:13:23. > :13:26.the sale of sex acceptable. So the problem is that as long as the
:13:27. > :13:31.debate is not looking at these serious issues, trafficking is a
:13:32. > :13:37.problem that has happened with immigration. Women from other
:13:38. > :13:45.countries are already here for commercial reasons because of the
:13:46. > :13:49.pound and the euro. Where is the proof that there is going to be a
:13:50. > :13:56.big rush? They are here. I have quadrupled in numbers because of lax
:13:57. > :14:00.immigration laws. A lot of that is right, and that concerns me. You are
:14:01. > :14:04.also right to say that I don't think it is right that women should be
:14:05. > :14:14.able to sell their bodies. I come at it from that aspect of. But you
:14:15. > :14:21.don't want to criminalise that? Why criminalise my clients if I choose
:14:22. > :14:27.to sell my body? Because there was a big issue society needs to tackle,
:14:28. > :14:34.which is that prostitution in any society which allows women to sell
:14:35. > :14:39.their bodies makes women I meet all. I think you are taking away a
:14:40. > :14:43.woman's choice. I don't ask for the vote, I have never voted in my life,
:14:44. > :14:48.but these respect the fact that I choose to sell my body and are
:14:49. > :14:52.thousands of women who do. Carla, what is your view? It is
:14:53. > :14:56.fascinating. We were talking before the show about what side of the
:14:57. > :15:07.argument I was on, and I find that on both sides... , oh, no! Women
:15:08. > :15:11.need to be protected. If you criminalise this further, it will
:15:12. > :15:15.force people down those alleyways. It is the oldest profession in the
:15:16. > :15:19.books. I think men will always find a way to pay for sex, and if we
:15:20. > :15:32.criminalise it, will we put more women at risk 's --? What would
:15:33. > :15:44.happen to the porn industry? It is very closely linked. It involves
:15:45. > :15:49.pavement... The thing about the porn industry... We need to look at it
:15:50. > :15:53.more closely than we are. There's a lot of evidence coming out that
:15:54. > :15:57.teenagers who look at porn actually get very unrealistic
:15:58. > :16:02.expectations... I agree with you, I've seen it with the younger
:16:03. > :16:07.clients. We do need to educate men about sex and respectability. You've
:16:08. > :16:12.seen the impact of younger people looking at porn? Absolutely. I've
:16:13. > :16:16.had younger clients who think it is appropriate to spit on someone
:16:17. > :16:21.because they've seen that in a movie. Completely inappropriate. We
:16:22. > :16:26.do need to protect the vulnerable women in the industry. I completely
:16:27. > :16:29.agree with you all stop I've talked to quite a lot of survivors, most of
:16:30. > :16:36.whom have come from that sort of background, have come from care, who
:16:37. > :16:41.were exploited. I came from care but I choose to do this now. Respect
:16:42. > :16:45.that decision. What do the words "digital switchover" mean to you?
:16:46. > :16:48.It's likely you're thinking of the move of terrestrial TV from analogue
:16:49. > :16:52.to digital. But there's another digital switchover in the offing -
:16:53. > :16:55.for radio. It was originally slated to happen in 2015, but in a speech
:16:56. > :16:59.next week the Culture Minister, Ed Vaizey, is expected to announce the
:17:00. > :17:08.date has been pushed back. Here's Giles.
:17:09. > :17:17.Digital radio. No more hiss, crystal clear sound, lots of choice, but AM
:17:18. > :17:23.and FM switch off. That was the deal. But in terms of that process,
:17:24. > :17:26.government, manufacturers and broadcasters have had to go back to
:17:27. > :17:29.the drawing board and adapt the plan, because building public
:17:30. > :17:39.interest from scratch as proved harder than expected. Here at Pure
:17:40. > :17:44.Radio's headquarters, they made a commercial decision to create set
:17:45. > :17:50.that get both signals. If you go back about ten years, it became very
:17:51. > :17:54.clear very quickly that not only the UK but all international markets,
:17:55. > :17:59.the transition to digital would be a relatively slow process with many
:18:00. > :18:04.steps along the way, as networks roll-out. It was important that
:18:05. > :18:08.there was the capability for radios to take care of the digital signal
:18:09. > :18:12.but also the analogue signal as well. That's a recognition that even
:18:13. > :18:16.though they are world leaders in digital radio, and that this country
:18:17. > :18:20.leads the world in hardware and software inside them, in terms of
:18:21. > :18:24.the method of transmission, which they don't control, the public seem
:18:25. > :18:28.not to be entirely on the same wavelength. The original idea was
:18:29. > :18:34.that when digital listening reached 50%, people would have two years to
:18:35. > :18:38.switch over. Now digital listening is below that, so what I'm saying is
:18:39. > :18:43.I don't think we should give people this narrow two your window.
:18:44. > :18:49.Instead, we should look for digital listening to be 75% before we decide
:18:50. > :18:54.on the switchover term. So far, only a fifth of us have switched. Just
:18:55. > :18:57.one in 20 of us have it in our cars. Smaller FM stations have complained
:18:58. > :19:01.at the much higher cost of broadcast, and our coverage areas is
:19:02. > :19:05.patchy. And if you don't have a digital set, if analogue is switched
:19:06. > :19:09.off you will have to buy one. In the middle of a cost of living crisis, I
:19:10. > :19:44.think that's a cost that people don't need. It might cost somebody
:19:45. > :19:47.between ?20 to ?50 at, and ?100 to convert their car. That is quite a
:19:48. > :19:49.lot of money. The digital will be the future, that's not in doubt.
:19:50. > :19:51.Next week, the government announces plans for that timetable and the
:19:52. > :19:54.industry, a UK success story, is wary. When it comes to processor
:19:55. > :19:56.core technology, the kind of electronics that's driving this
:19:57. > :19:58.graphics programme and makes digital radios work, Britain leads the
:19:59. > :20:00.world. But when it comes to business, and all businesses, the
:20:01. > :20:02.last thing they want and need is unc ertainty. With uncertainty, a
:20:03. > :20:04.business like ourselves can plan around that. But the with
:20:05. > :20:06.uncertainty, a business like ourselves can plan around that. But
:20:07. > :20:08.preparing their product range and strategies and delivery of digital
:20:09. > :20:10.radio stations and retailers can plan around that and make sure they
:20:11. > :20:13.are preparing their product range and strategies and delivery of ready
:20:14. > :20:15.for the consumer, but consumer. If we are able to give a certainty to
:20:16. > :20:18.digital switchover, consumers can make sure that when they are buying
:20:19. > :20:20.a new product that digital is standard within that product what is
:20:21. > :20:23.in the best interest of the consumer. If we are able to give a
:20:24. > :20:25.certainty to digital switchover, consumers can make sure that when
:20:26. > :20:33.they are buying a new product that digital is standard within that And
:20:34. > :20:36.we've been joined by Ford Ennals, who, as the chief executive of
:20:37. > :20:40.Digital Radio UK, is responsible for preparing the ground for digital
:20:41. > :20:42.switchover. In the world of digital radio, politicking has potential
:20:43. > :20:49.risks, and nobody wants the idea to become a complete Ed Vaizey will be
:20:50. > :20:56.making a speech at the BBC on Monday. He will digital is the
:20:57. > :21:00.future for radio. He will say we are planning a digital switchover. What
:21:01. > :21:04.he won't say is he is setting a date. He will say that there will be
:21:05. > :21:07.government digital is the future for radio. He will say we are planning a
:21:08. > :21:19.digital switchover. What he won't say is he is setting a date. He will
:21:20. > :21:23.say that there will be DA people love DAV if they've got great
:21:24. > :21:34.reception. If they happened, they are concerned. We need to make sure
:21:35. > :21:36.that people will get a robust signal people love DAV if they've got great
:21:37. > :21:39.reception. If they happened, they are concerned. We need to make sure
:21:40. > :21:44.that people will get a robust signal. Just as we did with TV, we
:21:45. > :21:47.built transmitter so everyone could get the will mean. What the
:21:48. > :21:56.government will confirm on Monday is they are going to sustain it hit
:21:57. > :21:58.will happen on radio as well. You asked a question about FM and what
:21:59. > :22:01.it will mean. What the government will confirm on Monday is they are
:22:02. > :22:04.going to sustain, and the Minister will say it is not happening in 20,
:22:05. > :22:47.and the Minister will say it is not happening in 2015
:22:48. > :22:54.The digital radios you get today have FM as well.
:22:55. > :23:01.The local stations will stay on FM. But I am talking about the national
:23:02. > :23:06.stations. You need to get a digital set or listen on your iPad or your
:23:07. > :23:10.iPhone. But we are talking about seven years away, and think about
:23:11. > :23:15.the trans-formation we have already seen. Almost half of homes have a
:23:16. > :23:23.Diaby radio already. So you are right, there will be a transition of
:23:24. > :23:28.the national BBC services from FM to digital and other platforms. But
:23:29. > :23:32.will cricket still be on the long wait 's that is for the BBC to
:23:33. > :23:40.decide. No call has been made on that. This could be the game
:23:41. > :23:45.changer! You are on a fine edge here. At the moment, you can listen
:23:46. > :23:51.to the cricket overnight on 5 Live sports extra. If you compare that
:23:52. > :23:57.with trying to listen on medium wave, where the quality is very
:23:58. > :24:02.poor... Do people still listen to medium wave? They do. 7 million
:24:03. > :24:09.still listen to talk sport and 5 Live. But you would not want music
:24:10. > :24:12.on medium wave. There is some music. Absolute have music on there. But we
:24:13. > :24:27.would expect to see a transition from medium wave to FM and digital.
:24:28. > :24:38.But it is a lot of money to replace all the radios in different rooms.
:24:39. > :24:39.In the home, there are about two radios that everybody is using, and
:24:40. > :25:02.many others that are dormant. Freeview is digital as well. The big
:25:03. > :25:07.talk was that is going to go to the mobile phone companies for 4G. They
:25:08. > :25:11.will need new equipment. That will cause a new row as well. I don't
:25:12. > :25:19.think there's any announcement about that yet. What we are focusing on is
:25:20. > :25:26.this transition over a period of time. Digital radio is now lost...
:25:27. > :25:33.I've got a digital radio in my car. The quality is not that great. It
:25:34. > :25:37.will be where you have great reception and coverage. But that's
:25:38. > :25:41.true of FM as well. What will be announced on Monday by the Minister
:25:42. > :25:45.is an investment in hundreds of transmitters that will improve
:25:46. > :25:50.coverage, particularly on road networks. Good. You are in a perfect
:25:51. > :25:59.position to lobby to make sure that the cricket is still on the right
:26:00. > :26:04.wave. Are you ready? Do you listen to radio on the radio? I don't, I
:26:05. > :26:10.don't use radio now. I get it all through my tablet and smartphone. I
:26:11. > :26:15.love it. Menu to tablet and smartphone, but I've also got one of
:26:16. > :26:22.these boxes that you put your iPhone in as well. That allows you to get
:26:23. > :26:26.better sound. An old steam radio, whose death has been predicted again
:26:27. > :26:30.and again, the more ways you can listen to radio, whether through
:26:31. > :26:34.your satellite system, Freeview or through the tablets and all the rest
:26:35. > :26:39.of it, I think the more people are listening to radio. Radio has been
:26:40. > :26:43.incredibly robust, over 90% of people still listen to radio every
:26:44. > :26:47.week. But we can't stand still. We do need to make this transition
:26:48. > :26:58.towards digital. We need to discuss that on Monday and work to deliver
:26:59. > :27:01.it over the next seven years. Good luck, because there's going to be a
:27:02. > :27:11.huge row. You never mess with the radio for audience, you know that!
:27:12. > :27:16.It's 2014, the decorations are packed away, you've recovered from
:27:17. > :27:19.your festive hangovers and that unfortunate incident with the
:27:20. > :27:23.eggnog. But what does the world look like now, and what are the odds on a
:27:24. > :27:28.happy political New Year? In a moment, we will talk to Philip
:27:29. > :27:34.Coggan, who makes predictions for the Economist. Now let's cross to
:27:35. > :27:38.College Green. Give us the odds for next year, Alex. The one I think
:27:39. > :27:52.would be most relevant to you is the Scottish independence. For- one.
:27:53. > :27:56.That was 5-1 we've cut the odds. I've got people who work for me, you
:27:57. > :28:01.know. There's growing confidence. At first the odds were quite long. We
:28:02. > :28:05.thought it was almost certain to be no. But there seems to be more
:28:06. > :28:10.confidence returning to the yes. One man in Scotland yesterday put
:28:11. > :28:18.?10,000 down. Was that Alex Salmond? I'm not sure. Still against
:28:19. > :28:23.independence. You put up ?1 down and you get ?4 back if the Scots vote to
:28:24. > :28:29.go. You look pretty clear that UKIP is in with a very good chance of
:28:30. > :28:32.coming top of the poll. Absolutely. Even money favourite. They've been
:28:33. > :28:37.the favourite for quite a long time. Labour just behind them. When I was
:28:38. > :28:40.speaking to our political compiler yesterday, he says that of all the
:28:41. > :28:50.bets on the board here today, this is the best bet. Take us through all
:28:51. > :28:57.the other odds you've got there. Millar interest rates to rise, 4-6.
:28:58. > :29:01.That's the most likely to happen. 11-10 the other side. Ed Balls will
:29:02. > :29:05.be replaced at 3-1. That would suggest he is probably fairly safe.
:29:06. > :29:12.Boris Johnson to be parachuted into the House of Commons at 5-1. That
:29:13. > :29:17.should be 10-1. Looking at things that have real outside chances,
:29:18. > :29:23.England to win the World Cup, 33 - one. That should be 50-1! What are
:29:24. > :29:34.the odds on us winning the third test? You name your price, I don't
:29:35. > :29:38.think that's happening. We are joined by Philip Coggan, from the
:29:39. > :29:44.Economist magazine. You do this every year will stop what did you
:29:45. > :29:52.get wrong about 2013? Golly. I'm sure we got lots wrong. I can't
:29:53. > :29:58.remember. It's the best thing not to remember. I think it's important we
:29:59. > :30:02.work that out, so we can work that if we listen to you in 2014. What do
:30:03. > :30:08.you think the themes will be for next year? The big theme is the
:30:09. > :30:12.threat to Western democracy. We are seeing a bottom-up problem, voters
:30:13. > :30:15.are not getting the improvements and prosperity they expect. They are
:30:16. > :30:19.seeing years of austerity and are turning to extremes. There is a
:30:20. > :30:23.top-down problem, which is that the decisions people make up being taken
:30:24. > :30:43.not out of the hands of voters but out of the hands of elected
:30:44. > :30:45.representatives. Central bankers are the most powerful people in the
:30:46. > :30:47.world. Fiscal policy in Europe is moving out of the hands of
:30:48. > :30:50.governments and towards Brussels. If you add in the courts, which are
:30:51. > :30:53.often on a European wide basis, the IMF is a very powerful force, then
:30:54. > :30:55.voters vote, but do they really decide on who the powerful people
:30:56. > :30:58.are who get into office? You were pro-European, probing new row for a
:30:59. > :31:03.while as well. But we are in favour of a reformed EU. We all want that.
:31:04. > :31:08.Whether David Cameron can get that is a different matter. Marine Le Pen
:31:09. > :31:12.to do very well in next year's elections in France. UKIP, as we've
:31:13. > :31:17.just seen in the odds, are to do well. There could be about 35% of
:31:18. > :31:23.the European Parliament by next summer who will be outside the
:31:24. > :31:32.mainstream right and sometimes the hard right. Absolutely, you have far
:31:33. > :31:39.right parties in Scandinavia, the Netherlands and Austria. There was
:31:40. > :31:43.one in Italy. There is a vote in most of these countries of a quarter
:31:44. > :31:50.to a third of people who are willing to try something new. In Ireland,
:31:51. > :31:56.21% of the vote is going to Sinn Fein. In recent years, you have
:31:57. > :32:00.chucked out governance of the centre-left or centre-right, put in
:32:01. > :32:03.the opposition and got exactly the same policies, and people are fed up
:32:04. > :32:08.with it. They don't see a difference between the two main parties, and
:32:09. > :32:11.they are looking at who can offer something new. What about our
:32:12. > :32:17.backyard? Cameron, Clegg and Miliband? Starting with Cameron,
:32:18. > :32:22.everything depends on the state of the economy. Recent figures have
:32:23. > :32:28.been quite good. We worry that too much of it is based on consumption
:32:29. > :32:32.and not enough on revival and manufacturing. That is right, in
:32:33. > :32:38.terms of the electoral cycle, he may get away with that for most of
:32:39. > :32:42.2014. Yes, if anything goes wrong with that, it is more likely to be a
:32:43. > :32:46.year or so ahead. It is very unlikely that interest rates will
:32:47. > :32:53.rise next year, which means housing will not come under pressure. What
:32:54. > :33:01.is the having post-prediction for 2014? There are similarities in
:33:02. > :33:05.terms of the non-mainstream parties. They will rise next year. My concern
:33:06. > :33:09.is where young people are being mobilised. They are totally turned
:33:10. > :33:13.off politics. They don't believe in people elected by their parents and
:33:14. > :33:18.generations before them. We have big personalities saying, don't bother
:33:19. > :33:22.voting, it doesn't make a difference. I passionately hope
:33:23. > :33:29.politicians will start talking to young people. They do. In France,
:33:30. > :33:33.the largest percentage of young people in the 18-30 group of voting
:33:34. > :33:40.for the National Front. They have tapped into the youth vote . Is that
:33:41. > :33:44.because those are the only politicians talking to young
:33:45. > :33:48.people? And the centralist parties who have held power have got
:33:49. > :33:52.complacent and stopped talking to the generations coming up and are
:33:53. > :33:56.just worried about those who did or did not vote for them last time.
:33:57. > :34:02.Young people don't vote, old people do, and old people are getting the
:34:03. > :34:06.benefits out of the pension and state, and young people have to pay
:34:07. > :34:12.for it. If you are an established petition, you are drawn to appeal to
:34:13. > :34:17.the elderly. If you look at youth unemployment, 60% in Spain, 30% in
:34:18. > :34:23.France, it is remarkable that the extremes have not done better. Yes,
:34:24. > :34:30.we are lucky in that they often appear a bit thuggish. And they are
:34:31. > :34:38.not socially liberal, so that cuts them down. In Greece, you have 27%
:34:39. > :34:42.or 28% voting for the far left. Thank you for that. Now, time to get
:34:43. > :34:45.the answer to our question. What does David Cameron want for
:34:46. > :34:53.Christmas? A smartphone, a Nigella Lawson cookbook, a Mumford Sons CD
:34:54. > :35:03.or some squidgy tennis balls? I will go for the squidgy tennis balls.
:35:04. > :35:06.What does that mean? I don't know. Neither do I, but he says that is
:35:07. > :35:12.what he wants to play with his kids. Coming up in a moment, our
:35:13. > :35:15.regular look at what has been going on in European politics. For now,
:35:16. > :35:21.can't say goodbye my guest of the day, Carla.
:35:22. > :35:25.So, for the next half-hour we will be focusing on Europe. We will
:35:26. > :35:29.discuss the situation in Ukraine. The new coalition government in
:35:30. > :35:32.Germany, and the reform of the European fisheries policy. First,
:35:33. > :35:41.our guide to the latest from Europe in 60 seconds.
:35:42. > :35:45.Good news for plug-in air passengers. The European Commission
:35:46. > :35:48.says that in the future, devices like smartphones, tablets and
:35:49. > :35:54.e-readers can be kept on in-flight mode during taxiing, take-off and
:35:55. > :35:56.landing. The Maltese approved a controversial plan to sell their
:35:57. > :36:00.passport for more than half ?1 million a time, in effect allowing
:36:01. > :36:05.wealthy people to buy you citizenship.
:36:06. > :36:11.-- EU citizenship. Pro-EU Ukrainians were attacked by
:36:12. > :36:13.riot police during a visit by European foreign holiday chief
:36:14. > :36:17.Baroness Ashton. The European Parliament approved a
:36:18. > :36:24.new plan for trading power in mission credits. They are hoping to
:36:25. > :36:29.encourage industries to cut back on greenhouse gas emissions.
:36:30. > :36:33.Finally, MEPs agreed changes to the common fisheries policy. From
:36:34. > :36:43.January, overfishing and growing edible fish back into the sea will
:36:44. > :36:47.be banned. With us now for the next 30 minutes,
:36:48. > :36:51.I have enjoined by the new leader of the Conservative MEPs, Syed Kamall,
:36:52. > :36:55.and by the Lib Dem MEP Chris Davies. Let's look at one of those stories
:36:56. > :37:03.the European Parliament on fishing. You have been campaigning for
:37:04. > :37:08.changes. Are you happy? It is a work in progress. There will be loopholes
:37:09. > :37:13.that have to be tightened, but it is a dramatic transformation. The CFP,
:37:14. > :37:18.the common fisheries policy, has been condemned for years because of
:37:19. > :37:22.overfishing and the like. At the heart of the CFP reform is a legal
:37:23. > :37:29.requirement to rebuild fish stocks when setting annual quotas and to
:37:30. > :37:35.end the discarding of fish. What is the timescale? The discarding ban
:37:36. > :37:40.comes in from 2015 . The rest of the policy will be implemented as soon
:37:41. > :37:44.as possible. Syed Kamall, are you happy? Yes, it has been one of those
:37:45. > :37:49.issues which has got consensus across political groups. We both
:37:50. > :37:56.agree that more power should be brought back to member state. We
:37:57. > :38:02.also agree on trying to end the process of discarding. So this is a
:38:03. > :38:07.reform that has happened. Of all the issues people hate about the EU, the
:38:08. > :38:11.CF he is at the top. This is a demonstration that it is possible to
:38:12. > :38:16.bring about sensible reform and rebuild Europe's fish stocks. Now,
:38:17. > :38:20.let's look at the situation in Ukraine. This week, pro-EU citizens
:38:21. > :38:24.have continued their protests in the capital city of Kiev against the
:38:25. > :38:29.decision of the Ukrainian government not to sign a deal on closer in you
:38:30. > :38:33.ties. Riot police confronted the protesters, tearing down are caves.
:38:34. > :38:37.The confrontation started when President Viktor Yanukovych
:38:38. > :38:43.announced last month that he would not sign an agreement on free trade
:38:44. > :38:50.with the EU, despite years of negotiations. His change of heart
:38:51. > :38:53.came after pressure from Russia. You's -- pee you's high
:38:54. > :38:57.representative on foreign affairs, Cathy Ashton, has been to Kiev this
:38:58. > :39:03.week for talks with the president. She says he told her he intends to
:39:04. > :39:06.sign the agreement after all. President Yanukovych made it clear
:39:07. > :39:10.to me that he intends to sign the agreement. He talked about the
:39:11. > :39:15.short-term economic issues that the country faces. It is my view that
:39:16. > :39:21.those challenges, which are real, can be addressed by the support that
:39:22. > :39:28.not only comes from the European Union institutions, but by showing
:39:29. > :39:33.that he has a serious economic plan inside the agreement, which will
:39:34. > :39:38.help to bring in investment. We are joined now by Ian Bond, director of
:39:39. > :39:43.foreign policy at the think-tank, the Centre for European Reform. His
:39:44. > :39:48.President Yanukovych really going to sign this? We think his family is
:39:49. > :39:53.involved in some of these deals. Will he do it? He has said he is
:39:54. > :39:58.going to do it. The proof of the pudding will be in the eating. Will
:39:59. > :40:04.the Russians allow him to do it? That is neither here nor there. He
:40:05. > :40:12.is not dependent on Russian gas as he was a few years ago. The fact
:40:13. > :40:15.that the EU has brokered a deal to open the pipelines from Slovakia
:40:16. > :40:20.back into the Ukraine means that he has more options there. But if the
:40:21. > :40:26.Kremlin turn nasty, they could make life unpleasant or Ukraine. They
:40:27. > :40:31.could in the short-term, but in the long-term, that is more likely to
:40:32. > :40:39.drive Ukraine Westwood stands as wedding them to stick with Russia.
:40:40. > :40:44.President Yanukovych is an old-style autocrat, isn't it? He is not the
:40:45. > :40:52.ideal man to be trying to do business with. Is that what we call
:40:53. > :41:01.a British understatement? Weak probably. But he was the elected
:41:02. > :41:04.leader in 2010 and his term runs until 2015. So unless some
:41:05. > :41:07.constitutional way is found for the opposition to take over from him, we
:41:08. > :41:21.have no option but to deal with him. But there economy is shot to
:41:22. > :41:24.hell. That is one of the drivers for Ukraine to get a better relationship
:41:25. > :41:29.with the EU. They need to get a deal with the IMF, and the best way to do
:41:30. > :41:34.that is with the help of EU. They want a lot of money from Europe. I
:41:35. > :41:37.don't think they will get the 20 billion euros they are asking for,
:41:38. > :41:40.but if they get more trade with Europe, we will buy things from them
:41:41. > :41:44.and they will certainly buy more things from European Union
:41:45. > :41:51.countries, which means they will buy less from Russia. And who buys
:41:52. > :41:58.anything from Russia other than gas or oil? They don't make anything.
:41:59. > :42:05.Russia regards Ukraine as their sphere of influence. Looking at the
:42:06. > :42:08.way they behaved to Georgia and threats they have made to other
:42:09. > :42:16.places, I would have thought this has the potential to be a major
:42:17. > :42:18.international crisis. There was a possibility there. The relationship
:42:19. > :42:26.between Russia and Ukraine is more balanced than you might think. There
:42:27. > :42:29.are a lot of producers in eastern Ukraine who still supply the Russian
:42:30. > :42:33.defence industry. So there is a limit to how far the Russians would
:42:34. > :42:42.want to go to damage Ukrainian industry. We know that the West is
:42:43. > :42:47.more westward looking. The young people are protesting in favour of
:42:48. > :42:51.Europe and so on. We know the East is more Russians teaching and more
:42:52. > :42:55.looking towards Moscow. Is there a possibility but the country could
:42:56. > :42:59.split? That is unlikely. The Russians underestimate the extent to
:43:00. > :43:05.which people, regardless of the language they speak, feel
:43:06. > :43:15.Ukrainian. The polling supports that. How big a deal is this for
:43:16. > :43:21.Europe? It is a big deal. We are not getting letters from constituents
:43:22. > :43:25.saying this is important, but the EU feels on the back foot because of
:43:26. > :43:31.the economic crisis. But here we have, in Kiev, people waving EU
:43:32. > :43:37.flags and saying, our future is with the European Union. And pulling down
:43:38. > :43:42.statues of Lenin. Very interesting. You thought you would see that 20
:43:43. > :43:46.years ago. President Yanukovych tried to play off Russia against the
:43:47. > :43:56.EU in order to get money, and it has not worked. Both Russia and the EU
:43:57. > :44:02.think they are moving closer to their position. Will Europe have to
:44:03. > :44:08.send development aid to Ukraine? I don't think so. Opening up trading
:44:09. > :44:14.possibilities, lowering tariffs barriers and so on will help the
:44:15. > :44:20.Ukrainian economy. There might have to be some short-term bridging
:44:21. > :44:25.loans, but the main economic input has to come from the IMF. But it is
:44:26. > :44:29.not just about trade, it is also about democratic reforms and
:44:30. > :44:36.respecting pluralism and European values, as well as a more prosperous
:44:37. > :44:39.economy. There was a time when Ukraine was considerably more
:44:40. > :44:44.prosperous than Poland. Now Poland is considerably more prosperous than
:44:45. > :44:48.Ukraine. You could say the glass is half full rather than half empty.
:44:49. > :44:54.There is huge ground it could make up. Absolutely. For years, is the
:44:55. > :44:59.Ukraine was a breadbasket for the old countries of the Soviet Union.
:45:00. > :45:04.There is a lot of ground to make up, but Ukraine has to decide which way
:45:05. > :45:14.to go. Optimistic? Cautiously positive. Back in September, German
:45:15. > :45:17.voters went to the polls to elect a new government. And now with
:45:18. > :45:21.Christmas just around the corner, Germany could be about to get a new
:45:22. > :45:23.government, a coalition of the conservative CDU and the social
:45:24. > :45:33.democratic SPD. This grand coalition is expected to get the final
:45:34. > :45:37.go-ahead this weekend. But will an alliance of parties from the left
:45:38. > :45:48.and right herald a new direction for the European Union? Jo Coburn went
:45:49. > :45:53.to Berlin to investigate. The result of the election here in Germany back
:45:54. > :45:56.in September saw Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats emerge as the
:45:57. > :46:02.largest party, but still in need of coalition partners in order to form
:46:03. > :46:05.a government. After almost 90 days of negotiation, it looks as if that
:46:06. > :46:10.coalition is about to be formed between the left and right here in
:46:11. > :46:12.Germany. But will the news bring any festive cheer to the people here and
:46:13. > :46:35.across Europe? So the picture of government here
:46:36. > :46:39.will look different in 2014. And it's clear which political direction
:46:40. > :46:43.the social Democrats are taking the coalition. Even though the
:46:44. > :46:46.Conservatives on the majority party in this coalition, everything is
:46:47. > :46:50.moving towards the left. For example, we are going to see a
:46:51. > :46:56.minimum wage being instituted here in Germany, and expansion of
:46:57. > :47:00.pensions. So possibly big changes on the cards policy wise at home in
:47:01. > :47:05.Germany, but what about relations with other European countries? In
:47:06. > :47:09.Britain, David Cameron's attempts to take back powers from Brussels
:47:10. > :47:17.certainly isn't going down well with many Social Democrats here. They
:47:18. > :47:21.hate it. In Germany, not only by the Democrats, but especially with them,
:47:22. > :47:24.there's a widespread feeling that England is cutting loose from Europe
:47:25. > :47:28.and going its own way with the dreaded United States. That is very
:47:29. > :47:32.widespread opinion. The Prime Minister may find common ground with
:47:33. > :47:36.Angela Merkel's sister party in the coalition, the CSU. Particularly
:47:37. > :47:44.when it comes to the issue of EU and benefits. We are in line with
:47:45. > :47:51.Cameron, concerned with restriction of migration in our social security
:47:52. > :47:59.systems. But we would not generally restrict the freedom -- the freedom
:48:00. > :48:06.of movement, but prevent people from Romania and Bulgaria, for example,
:48:07. > :48:11.to come to Germany only to benefit from our social security systems.
:48:12. > :48:16.David Cameron's working relationship with Angela Merkel will be critical
:48:17. > :48:21.to any future reform of the EU. I think she is quite open to support
:48:22. > :48:27.Cameron if it comes to really pragmatic improvements. But if it
:48:28. > :48:32.comes to give the Brits a special... Special treatment because
:48:33. > :48:36.his domestic constituency is demanding for it, but if it doesn't
:48:37. > :48:40.make sense in practical terms she will strictly oppose it. So Great
:48:41. > :48:45.Britain and the rest of Europe will watch with interest as Germany's new
:48:46. > :48:49.government gets to work, and see how much influence the left wing part of
:48:50. > :48:54.the coalition has an daily life. Every coalition partner has impact
:48:55. > :49:01.on the direction of this government. However, the
:49:02. > :49:06.Chancellor, Angela Merkel, is very strong in all European issues. The
:49:07. > :49:10.powerhouse of Europe is heralding in a new grand coalition in time for
:49:11. > :49:13.Christmas. But any change in political direction for Germany is
:49:14. > :49:22.unlikely to be dramatic at this stage, as all eyes will be on the
:49:23. > :49:26.European elections next spring. One of the dangers of this
:49:27. > :49:30.coalition, we will come to the implications for Britain in a
:49:31. > :49:34.minute, but one of the dangers for Germany is it could be a recipe for
:49:35. > :49:41.rigor mortis. It could be. The agreement is 185 pages long. We have
:49:42. > :49:44.to get used to the idea that we have to give our politicians more time to
:49:45. > :49:49.forge a coalition agreement in future. It could be. On the other
:49:50. > :49:52.hand, it's a fascinating partnership. You have the CDU trying
:49:53. > :49:58.to drive forward the economic enterprise. Then you have the others
:49:59. > :50:04.saying a higher minimum wage and the like. A stronger economy, fairer
:50:05. > :50:09.society. Unlike the Conservatives in this country, Mrs Merkel was never
:50:10. > :50:15.ideological opposed to the minimum wage. She was quite sympathetic to
:50:16. > :50:19.it. We look at Germany, the latest German industrial production figures
:50:20. > :50:24.are terrible. We look at Germany as the one economic success story. But
:50:25. > :50:27.it has two major problems. A huge productivity problem because the
:50:28. > :50:31.population is ageing and collapsing, there will be 6 million
:50:32. > :50:35.fewer Germans by 2030. And they have an energy policy which is proving to
:50:36. > :50:40.be a disaster. The one really successful heavy industry country in
:50:41. > :50:44.Europe and the energy policy doesn't match. I suggest to you that the
:50:45. > :50:48.coalition will do nothing to tackle these two fundamental issues. I
:50:49. > :50:52.wonder about that. What often happens, politicians go into an
:50:53. > :50:56.election with all sorts of claims, then you knuckle down and get down
:50:57. > :51:00.to the reality, not only of coalition politics but also the
:51:01. > :51:03.world outside. Think about the way that Francois Hollande has tackled
:51:04. > :51:09.some issues in a completely unexpected way. Reality will bite.
:51:10. > :51:13.Conservative MEPs using Francois Hollande as an example of good
:51:14. > :51:17.things that might happen to Germany, can you explain how that is going to
:51:18. > :51:23.work? Merkel has been looking over her shoulder at the position on
:51:24. > :51:29.nuclear power, for example. She was looking at the leader of the SDP and
:51:30. > :51:34.saying, I don't want to be attacked by him. Now they are together and
:51:35. > :51:40.they had to sort out this energy policy. And they are building more
:51:41. > :51:45.coal-fired stations. It's madness. Subsidising solar power and building
:51:46. > :51:48.the new stations. And they are using the dirtiest possible coal
:51:49. > :51:52.imaginable. Here's the rub for Mr Cameron. There were a lot of
:51:53. > :51:57.indications that Mrs Merkel was prepared to help Mr Cameron
:51:58. > :52:01.repatriate, in his repatriating mission, no details but she seemed
:52:02. > :52:05.reasonably sympathetic. We know the social Democrats have no sympathy
:52:06. > :52:09.with this. This is a problem for the British Prime Minister. Cameron has
:52:10. > :52:16.talked more about reformed and repatriation. Both Merkel and
:52:17. > :52:19.Cameron, if you look at the situation they both face, they are
:52:20. > :52:23.both strong leaders at the head of coalitions. They will make sure, by
:52:24. > :52:27.working together, that they achieve as much of that reform as they can.
:52:28. > :52:33.I would suggest the real significance is not the fact that a
:52:34. > :52:36.grand coalition has been formed. It is that the institution that has run
:52:37. > :52:43.Europe for 60 years, the Franco German alliance, has broken down.
:52:44. > :52:46.Yes, it has. The leader of the left within the new Hjohlman coalition, I
:52:47. > :52:53.doubt he has much time for Francois Hollande. It's just a matter of who
:52:54. > :52:58.is credible. This is no longer a Europe of 15, it is 28 nations. They
:52:59. > :53:03.have potential for building new alliances. You know that what gave
:53:04. > :53:07.Europe its drive, the summit their direction and what decisions was the
:53:08. > :53:14.fact that Paris and Berlin... But that was then and this is now. New
:53:15. > :53:19.member states, Poland, getting stronger and stronger. No proper
:53:20. > :53:26.banking union. The banking union, a major step was taken this week. The
:53:27. > :53:31.risk is still with sovereigns. Indeed. It gives us a huge
:53:32. > :53:34.opportunity for the reform agenda, led by Cameron and Merkel. As we
:53:35. > :53:37.were discussing earlier, the European Union's foreign policy
:53:38. > :53:40.supremo Cathy Ashton has been making headlines in recent weeks, getting
:53:41. > :53:44.involved in the crisis in Ukraine as well as recently brokering an
:53:45. > :53:49.international deal on Iran. She heads up an organisation called the
:53:50. > :54:06.External Action Service. Never heard of it? Never fear. Here's Adam. It
:54:07. > :54:11.is in Europe but not in the EU, so Switzerland has an outpost of the
:54:12. > :54:14.External Action Service. The union's three-year-old diplomatic
:54:15. > :54:20.corps. Around 2000 people, about two thirds of the service, are stationed
:54:21. > :54:23.in outposts abroad. Brussels man in Byrne is Richard Jones, on
:54:24. > :54:29.secondment from the Foreign Office after a stint in Iraq. Basra,
:54:30. > :54:35.Brussels, any similarities? They both begin with B but apart from
:54:36. > :54:42.that, no. First up, a meeting of diplomats from the 28 member states.
:54:43. > :54:48.There isn't a name for a group of ambassadors, but critics say there
:54:49. > :54:52.is one too many here. Why can't they just represent what the EU with?
:54:53. > :54:56.They are the members of the EU. That is what we used to do. The
:54:57. > :55:01.difficulty was that the presidency of the Council is a resident for six
:55:02. > :55:05.months. It was like a relay race with people passing the battle
:55:06. > :55:09.over. There's only so much you can do in six months. Then we are off to
:55:10. > :55:12.the Swiss parliament for a chat with MPs, because next year there will be
:55:13. > :55:19.a referendum on limiting migration from the EU. My job here has been to
:55:20. > :55:24.set out the facts as we see them. The arguments which perhaps they
:55:25. > :55:29.wouldn't hear if we didn't have a delegation here to explain them. If
:55:30. > :55:33.that is the EU's relations with one country, here is where they have
:55:34. > :55:39.them with the whole world. This is the headquarters of the UN in
:55:40. > :55:46.Geneva. Working the corridors is the Italian diplomat who heads the
:55:47. > :55:49.mission here. Today she is giving Europe's response to a not exactly
:55:50. > :55:55.thrilling report about development. Every word agreed by EU members in
:55:56. > :55:59.advance. I have the honour to speak on behalf of the European Union and
:56:00. > :56:02.its member states. Britain guards its relations with other countries
:56:03. > :56:09.pretty jealously. When I ask about us, Marie Angela is diplomatic.
:56:10. > :56:18.Sometimes it is a little bit difficult. But I think in the end
:56:19. > :56:21.there is one quality that the UK expresses at least here, and I try
:56:22. > :56:30.to take advantage of that and make of that also my own policy, which is
:56:31. > :56:35.being pragmatic. Don't lose too much time in discussing what we can do or
:56:36. > :56:39.not. But even cheerleaders at the time has been wasted in admin
:56:40. > :56:43.problems in bureaucratic turf wars in setting up the External Action
:56:44. > :56:48.Service. So what is it really like to work for? I read into Brett that
:56:49. > :56:54.you are meant to call an ambassador your Excellency. Do I have to call
:56:55. > :57:01.you that? No, you call me Richard. Do you go to lots of cocktail
:57:02. > :57:06.parties? Guess. Do you get off with lots of parking fines? Absolutely
:57:07. > :57:10.not, I paid a speeding fine yesterday. Is this just a huge
:57:11. > :57:16.bureaucracy, jobs for diplomats around the world is it doing
:57:17. > :57:20.anything? I think it is amazing that the External Action Service is an
:57:21. > :57:24.unknown term. When the Lisbon Treaty was being negotiated, UKIP and
:57:25. > :57:28.others were saying this is the end of the British foreign service. Here
:57:29. > :57:31.we have an organisation which is trying to pull together all these 28
:57:32. > :57:36.different foreign ministers so we are speaking with one voice. It
:57:37. > :57:40.seems a perfectly sensible way to go forward for me. We've not spoken
:57:41. > :57:46.with one voice in Syria or the French intervention in Mali or even
:57:47. > :57:51.in Libya. It's a pretty limited number of issues in which we do
:57:52. > :57:54.speak with one voice. Exactly. And that's what demonstrates why member
:57:55. > :57:59.states have to have a strong foreign service. When it was originally set
:58:00. > :58:04.up, it was supposed to be cost neutral. No extra money from the EU
:58:05. > :58:10.budget. It has cost extra money, 420 million altogether. Some of it was
:58:11. > :58:13.existing resources. It's also got 140 missions around the world, does
:58:14. > :58:18.it need them, particularly when it is trying to duplicate the work of
:58:19. > :58:21.the foreign offices? No, but we should be sharing missions in some
:58:22. > :58:27.places. There were some countries around the world, different
:58:28. > :58:30.countries in the European Union trying to maintain offices there
:58:31. > :58:39.instead of sharing facilities. It is Cathy Ashton, is she leaving on a
:58:40. > :58:45.bit of a hike? She is, no question. A good girl from Wigan. No one
:58:46. > :58:50.expected her to get the job. She was utterly astonished when she got the
:58:51. > :58:54.job. She has had a very rough couple of years. But now, with Iraq and
:58:55. > :59:00.Kosovo and the like, she is on a high. I think people have been very
:59:01. > :59:05.unkind to Cathy Ashton, sometimes justifiably so. But I think she has
:59:06. > :59:10.proved herself with Iran. Her softly softly approach seems to be working.
:59:11. > :59:15.She hasn't got long to go. We will see who gets the job next. That's
:59:16. > :59:21.all for today. Thanks to my guests, Syed Kamall and Chris Davies. Hope
:59:22. > :59:24.to see you again soon. Bye bye.