:00:36. > :00:40.Afternoon, folks - welcome to The Daily Politics. Our top story today
:00:41. > :00:43.- Ed Miliband promises a day of reckoning for Britain's big five
:00:44. > :00:48.banks, if Labour wins the next election. Speaking in the last hour,
:00:49. > :00:54.Mr Miliband said they should be broken up. George Osborne says he
:00:55. > :01:03.wants the minimum wage to rise to ?7 an hour after the next election.
:01:04. > :01:06.That would take it back to the value it was in real terms in 2004.
:01:07. > :01:12.William Hague travels to Glasgow to make the case against Scottish
:01:13. > :01:15.independence. We'll talk to both sides of the referendum, after an
:01:16. > :01:18.intensive week of campaigning on debt, tuition fees and childcare.
:01:19. > :01:21.And as EU leaders lay into David Cameron's idea of capping migration
:01:22. > :01:23.from other European countries, we'll bring you the latest news from the
:01:24. > :01:36.European Parliament in Strasbourg. All that in the next hour. And with
:01:37. > :01:40.us for the next half an hour is the deputy political editor of the
:01:41. > :01:44.Financial Times, Beth Rigby. Welcome to The Daily Politics. Let's start
:01:45. > :01:48.with George Osborne's announcement that he'd like to see the minimum
:01:49. > :01:57.wage rise to ?7 an hour after the next election. It would be an above
:01:58. > :02:01.inflation rise, which would take it back to its 2004 value. You get a
:02:02. > :02:07.feeling that in terms of the politics of this, it is George
:02:08. > :02:12.Osborne's energy price freeze, just as that was a political move by Mr
:02:13. > :02:17.Miliband, this is a political move by the Chancellor? This is pure
:02:18. > :02:21.politics. He took a swipe at Ed Miliband the night before he was to
:02:22. > :02:24.give his big economy speech. He nicked a policy from the Lib Dems,
:02:25. > :02:29.and effectively, Vince Cable announced this policy back in set
:02:30. > :02:32.amber, that the Government wanted the Low Pay Commission to look at
:02:33. > :02:37.above inflation rises in the minimum wage for several years. So it is not
:02:38. > :02:42.essentially new. And then also, for full measure, he took a little swipe
:02:43. > :02:48.at Iain Duncan Smith when he said that it would be revenue no,.
:02:49. > :02:52.There's lots of people said the minimum wage rise would cut the
:02:53. > :03:00.welfare bill. He said, it will not. So, he actually did three in one. It
:03:01. > :03:05.is quite good politics. They are worried, though, behind-the-scenes,
:03:06. > :03:08.that it sets a precedent, in that the minimum wage, since it was
:03:09. > :03:14.introduced, has basically been set by the Low Pay Commission, without
:03:15. > :03:18.political interference. And here you have the Labour government, which
:03:19. > :03:22.invented the minimum wage, opposed by the Tories at the time, but a
:03:23. > :03:28.Tory government not only interfering in the process, but indicating to
:03:29. > :03:34.the Low Pay Commission, you should put it up a bit. The Chancellor,
:03:35. > :03:38.although he grabbed the headlines today, he was very careful to say,
:03:39. > :03:41.it has to be a matter for the Low Pay Commission. But he has left
:03:42. > :03:47.everybody in no doubt what he wants. The reason for this is that
:03:48. > :03:51.they know that they have a problem with blue-collar voters. They are
:03:52. > :03:57.still seen as the party of the rich, and what better way to say, we
:03:58. > :04:02.would really like an increase in the minimum wage? He can see that the
:04:03. > :04:07.Low Pay Commission might find reasons to increase it, and then, if
:04:08. > :04:12.that does happen, he can claim the plaudits. It is brilliant. But in
:04:13. > :04:15.all seriousness, I was looking through some of the responses from
:04:16. > :04:22.business, and the small business Federation said, look, somebody with
:04:23. > :04:26.nine employees, this will add nine grand to their wage bill,
:04:27. > :04:34.potentially, before tax. So businesses are saying, we do not
:04:35. > :04:39.mind increasing wages, the locking with the employment market. That is
:04:40. > :04:49.the job of the Low Pay Commission to decide that, so it is not a done
:04:50. > :04:54.deal. It is not a problem for the big companies. Watch out for when he
:04:55. > :04:59.gives out a national insurance cut. He is a very political Chancellor.
:05:00. > :05:04.Now it's time for our Daily Quiz. David Cameron spoke at a new annual
:05:05. > :05:07.dinner for Westminster journalists last night. He gave what was
:05:08. > :05:11.described by one hack as a "gag-packed" speech. But what did he
:05:12. > :05:18.say was his number one priority for the year ahead? Was it...? To knock
:05:19. > :05:20.UKIP into last place at the European elections? To avoid being
:05:21. > :05:23.photographed getting changed on the beach? To keep his bald spot hidden?
:05:24. > :05:40.Or to be best friends with Ed Balls? And a bit later in the show, Beth
:05:41. > :05:44.will give us the correct answer. Do you know the correct answer? I was
:05:45. > :05:51.there, and I am struggling Dawn at was it a good night, was the speech
:05:52. > :05:54.funny? It was very funny. It was a bit risky. Some of his advisers said
:05:55. > :05:57.to me that he was a bit nervous that he might have gone over the edge.
:05:58. > :06:01.But he was very funny. Banks in Britain will face a "day of
:06:02. > :06:05.reckoning" after the next election - if Labour wins a majority. That's
:06:06. > :06:08.the message from Ed Miliband, who in the last hour has been making a
:06:09. > :06:11.heavily-trailed speech about the economy. Here's some of what he had
:06:12. > :06:23.to say. I believe that committing now to
:06:24. > :06:29.such an in-out referendum has big costs for Britain. Why is this not
:06:30. > :06:33.the sensible judgment for Britain? It is a really important point. Lord
:06:34. > :06:37.has a time putted really well. He said, we are committing to a
:06:38. > :06:40.referendum on a negotiation which has not yet begun, on a timescale
:06:41. > :06:45.which is uncertain, with an outcome which is unknown, and that is an
:06:46. > :06:51.unnecessary gamble for our country. Although that was Ed Miliband, it
:06:52. > :06:55.was not the clip about his banking speech. That was actually another
:06:56. > :07:00.quiz, those of you who spotted that. Anyway, moving on. With us now is
:07:01. > :07:17.Labour's Shadow Business Secretary, Chuka Umunna. A Labour government
:07:18. > :07:22.would fix energy prices, confiscate land from developers and determine
:07:23. > :07:29.how many branches a bank should have, so who says planned economies
:07:30. > :07:33.do not work? These are a small number of sectors which have not
:07:34. > :07:37.been operating in as competitive and fair a fashion as we would like. If
:07:38. > :07:41.you are serious about reforming your economy, you have got to deal with
:07:42. > :07:45.those. Today, we are talking about banking just the reason this matters
:07:46. > :07:49.is because, yes, we have got the biggest cost of living crisis in a
:07:50. > :07:53.generation, which has depressed people's wages, but also, in the
:07:54. > :07:57.labour market, we do not have enough middle-income jobs. It is small and
:07:58. > :08:01.medium-sized businesses which drive that, but they cannot get access to
:08:02. > :08:04.the credit they need. That is why we want to ensure that the banking
:08:05. > :08:08.system is more competitive. You say that as if we are the only ones
:08:09. > :08:12.talking about the need for banking reform. I think there is a degree of
:08:13. > :08:15.consensus that we have got to reform the banks and we need more
:08:16. > :08:21.competition. The question is, how you do that? It is a massive U-turn
:08:22. > :08:24.from Labour. You are having to undo all the work you did when you were
:08:25. > :08:30.in power. It was the Labour government which was cheerleading
:08:31. > :08:33.RBS to an ever greater size, giving its chief executive a knighthood,
:08:34. > :08:41.and it was labour that force-fed the merger between Lloyds and HBOS. You
:08:42. > :08:47.are now having to undo all of that. Well, what we have said... Is that
:08:48. > :08:50.right? If you will let me finish. We did not get everything right on the
:08:51. > :08:54.banks, we have been clear about that. But what Ed Miliband said
:08:55. > :09:00.today, he was quite clear, this is not a problem which started in 2010,
:09:01. > :09:04.it has gone back several decades. In respect of the HBOS-Lloyds merger,
:09:05. > :09:09.that was done in an emergency to prevent collapse. Do you accept that
:09:10. > :09:12.that was wrong? I would not say that if I was in Alistair Darling? Shoes
:09:13. > :09:16.at the time, I would have made a different decision. He was the
:09:17. > :09:23.Chancellor at the time. But it was not him that did it. If you read his
:09:24. > :09:30.incredibly good autobiography, you will see... I have read it twice.
:09:31. > :09:35.You are going on about the size of banks, but they got too big under
:09:36. > :09:39.you. It was government action producing bigger banks under a
:09:40. > :09:43.Labour government. Do you accept that that was the wrong thing to do,
:09:44. > :09:47.and you are now having to undo that? I have already said, just a moment
:09:48. > :09:50.ago, that we did not get everything right on the banks. There were
:09:51. > :09:55.consolidation is which happened during our time but there were lots
:09:56. > :10:00.which happened beforehand as well. The question is, what to do now? We
:10:01. > :10:03.are seeking to ensure that we move away from a situation where we have
:10:04. > :10:08.got basically, lending to almost 5 million businesses, dominated by
:10:09. > :10:17.five banks. We have got one of the most concentrated banking systems in
:10:18. > :10:20.the world. It is not more concentrated than the French banking
:10:21. > :10:24.system, it is on a par with the Canadian banking system, with regard
:10:25. > :10:30.to concentration, which is the most stable... I am talking about cars.
:10:31. > :10:35.You just said we had one of the most concentrated banking systems in the
:10:36. > :10:40.world. I did not say those systems were perfect. We want to have more
:10:41. > :10:46.competition, so we can create the kind of jobs we need. One comment
:10:47. > :10:49.you made in the opening to this was that this was just a speech about
:10:50. > :10:54.banking. Actually, of course, that was the focus, but what we are
:10:55. > :10:59.talking about here is how actually we renew our economy. Tanking is one
:11:00. > :11:04.of those things, but over the next few months, you are going to see us
:11:05. > :11:08.setting out how we intend to reform the economy. -- banking. I am just
:11:09. > :11:15.dividing a bit of context. I understand that. Why do you think
:11:16. > :11:22.that simply because government decrees that branches should be
:11:23. > :11:24.digested and new branches set up, that that automatically happens?
:11:25. > :11:29.Politicians have been trying this for years, after all. You and the
:11:30. > :11:34.Tories wanted to sell off the Lloyds branches, they have not been able to
:11:35. > :11:38.do that. They have had to put them into a subsidiary. RBS was told to
:11:39. > :11:41.sell off some branches, they have not been able to do it. Just because
:11:42. > :11:47.politicians say something does not make it happen. No, but we are
:11:48. > :11:52.involving the Competition And Markets Authority in this. We are
:11:53. > :11:59.asking them to provide a legal threshold for market share. You
:12:00. > :12:13.mentioned, for example, you're right, the divestitures, now, ,
:12:14. > :12:19.originally those failed. I think it is a really good thing that TSB will
:12:20. > :12:24.be floated, but it has only got about 2% of the SME lending market,
:12:25. > :12:27.for example. But the point is, it has been really difficult,
:12:28. > :12:32.politicians have mandated these branches should be sold off, and you
:12:33. > :12:37.lead it, with the Co-op, and that would not exactly work. It is not
:12:38. > :12:41.easy the challenger banks, they are not queueing up to buy these
:12:42. > :12:48.branches. We are not claiming that it is going to be easy. I have
:12:49. > :12:51.worked on large transactions and restructurings before I was elected,
:12:52. > :12:57.and these are context things. We have said we will ask the
:12:58. > :13:04.Competition And Markets Authority, which is to be set up in April, to
:13:05. > :13:09.look at this. You are asking me about the detail. We are asking them
:13:10. > :13:13.to set out a timetable for the market share is to come into effect
:13:14. > :13:18.by the end of the parliament. That will take some time. What will the
:13:19. > :13:22.judgment of market share be? Whether or not it produces Morecambe
:13:23. > :13:26.edition. But how you judge market share, will it be by number of
:13:27. > :13:32.branches or number of customers? It will be by reference to the number
:13:33. > :13:39.of personal current accounts, and also the small business market. So,
:13:40. > :13:43.if I am successful in lending a lot to small business, and getting a lot
:13:44. > :13:48.of current account customers, you will cut me down to size? The new
:13:49. > :13:57.authority will determine how that will work. We are asking them to
:13:58. > :14:03.report on that. By what possible means do you think the challenger
:14:04. > :14:07.banks will lend more to SMEs? Actually, it will create more
:14:08. > :14:11.competition in the marketplace. But why would they lend more? Please let
:14:12. > :14:18.me finish my answer to your question. There is consensus among
:14:19. > :14:22.the commissions and the Treasury select committee, or have said that
:14:23. > :14:27.having alternative banks in the market will help make sure that we
:14:28. > :14:31.get better service. But why? At the moment, if you are turned down for a
:14:32. > :14:38.loan, there is very little choice for you to go elsewhere. At the
:14:39. > :14:44.moment, we know that about a -- a third of loan obligations are turned
:14:45. > :14:48.down. We know from many business organisations that you have got
:14:49. > :14:52.profitable, responsible business is being turned down for loans. Get me
:14:53. > :14:59.tell you something about challenger banks. By definition they have small
:15:00. > :15:03.balance sheets. Lending to small and medium-sized enterprises is the
:15:04. > :15:09.riskiest of all lending that banks can do, so how could challenger
:15:10. > :15:13.banks lend substantial sums to small and medium businesses on small
:15:14. > :15:18.balance sheets, against a very risky investments?
:15:19. > :15:23.We know it is not just an issue of lending per se, it is also an issue
:15:24. > :15:29.of the service they give and understanding they have. I'm sorry
:15:30. > :15:32.to interrupt you. I was just about to start talking about a challenger
:15:33. > :15:38.bank which also has a different way of working. The way that Handle's
:15:39. > :15:42.Bank works, I have visited them. Their motto is the branch is the
:15:43. > :15:45.bank, so they empower their local relationship managers to make
:15:46. > :15:49.decisions and also, they are mandated to lend in a set area. They
:15:50. > :15:53.understand it better. They actually visit the businesses in a which that
:15:54. > :15:57.many other of the bigger banks don't o do and this is the kind of
:15:58. > :16:00.cultural difference you get... It may be a cultural difference, but
:16:01. > :16:04.frankly, can you give me any evidence that our existing
:16:05. > :16:08.challenger banks are lending more to SMEs as a percentage of their
:16:09. > :16:12.balance sheet, than the big banks? I can't. I can't give you that
:16:13. > :16:18.percentage. But what I can say is if you like at banks like Handle's Bank
:16:19. > :16:21.and metro Bank, they are growing the number of loans they are giving to
:16:22. > :16:24.small businesses and making a difference. You might disagree with
:16:25. > :16:29.that but actually I have talked to lots of businesses who have
:16:30. > :16:36.benefited from what had those banks bring to the party. How much lending
:16:37. > :16:43.does Metro Bank give to SMEs. You have said that's -- I can't give you
:16:44. > :16:47.the figure. You said that's the future I have cited them as
:16:48. > :16:50.examples. Am I saying they are a panacea, no. The whole reason we are
:16:51. > :16:53.doing this is because we want them to have a greater share of the
:16:54. > :16:57.market. I understand that but what I'm asking you is, if challenger
:16:58. > :17:03.banks are the way forward, can you tell me how much Handle's Bank and
:17:04. > :17:08.Metro Bank are currently lending to SMEs? I knted. But what I can say,
:17:09. > :17:12.what we are looking at, we use the threshold set by the Independent
:17:13. > :17:16.Commission on Banking. They think for challenger banks to have a
:17:17. > :17:20.substantial difference they need 6% market share. The Governor of the
:17:21. > :17:23.Bank of England says breaking up banks is not the way to get more
:17:24. > :17:26.competition, partly for the reasons we have been talking about, it is
:17:27. > :17:30.hard it sell branches off and it is hard for new entrants to come into
:17:31. > :17:34.the market. We are being asked to believe that Ed Miliband knows more
:17:35. > :17:37.about this than the jofrnor of the Bank of England? -- Governor of the
:17:38. > :17:41.Bank of England No, people aren't. If you watch the Exchange as I did
:17:42. > :17:45.of the Treasury Select Committee hearing he was at E he was asked a
:17:46. > :17:49.leading question by a Conservative MP, that there were going to be
:17:50. > :17:53.crude, arbitrary market caps. Actually this is asking for
:17:54. > :17:58.commentary on a spech that hadn't even been delivered. And crude
:17:59. > :18:02.arbitrary market caps is not what we are talking about and also we are
:18:03. > :18:06.not saying that divestitures and challengers banks are not the
:18:07. > :18:11.panacea to solve all the issues we have. What what do you make of it? I
:18:12. > :18:16.think that the idea about bank portability for retail customers
:18:17. > :18:20.Which is important a... Switching. I think you can reform the banking
:18:21. > :18:24.system further. But I think that the Government have done tonnes of work
:18:25. > :18:28.on this through Vicars. You also have the Business Bank that Vince
:18:29. > :18:33.Cable set up. He has set up a business bank to try to help set up
:18:34. > :18:39.- you talk about a British business bank and actually the fact is when
:18:40. > :18:43.big banks try to make divestitures or, as we were talking about, they
:18:44. > :18:49.are very hard to sell off. I think that this is an - it feels to me - I
:18:50. > :18:52.mean we have to look more at the detail. But it feels like an
:18:53. > :18:56.unnecessary step which I'm not sure you are making it because you are
:18:57. > :19:00.developing this sort of catalogue of areas where you think that you can
:19:01. > :19:04.be on the side of the consumer and the voter, against big business. And
:19:05. > :19:09.I just wonder if it is a step too far. I don't think that this will
:19:10. > :19:13.sort out small SME lending. As Andrew said, you need big balance
:19:14. > :19:16.sheets to lend and that's partly why lending is concentrated in a few
:19:17. > :19:21.banks because you have to have the balance sheet. Final word from you.
:19:22. > :19:25.All I would say, is change isn't easy. This isn't about big verses
:19:26. > :19:29.small. Many of those small businesses form a fundamental
:19:30. > :19:34.important part of bigger businesses supply change. Since of beginning of
:19:35. > :19:38.this Parliament, 85% of lending was concentrated out of the Big Five
:19:39. > :19:41.banks. That's still the case now. It has not been changed. If we are
:19:42. > :19:44.serious about building a more product I have, long-termed,
:19:45. > :19:47.focussed economy, you have to make the changes and of course it'll
:19:48. > :19:54.ruffle a few feathers but we cannot just give up. That's something we
:19:55. > :19:59.refuse to do. Thank you very much. .
:20:00. > :20:04.Now to the Scottish independence campaign. The referendum is a mere
:20:05. > :20:07.eight months away you know. This morning William Hague entered the
:20:08. > :20:10.fray, unveiling the latest in a series of UK Government papers
:20:11. > :20:13.challenging the case for independence. The Foreign Secretary
:20:14. > :20:17.argues that a new Scottish state may not be able to negotiate the same
:20:18. > :20:20.terms of EU membership as the UK, and may be forced to adopt the Euro.
:20:21. > :20:25.But Deputy SNP Leader Nicola Sturgeon's been making her own
:20:26. > :20:27.speech this week. She said that as an independent EU member, Scotland
:20:28. > :20:30.would get ?850 million more in agricultural funds, supporting
:20:31. > :20:33.thousands of extra jobs. This week also saw the Treasury announcing
:20:34. > :20:36.that the Government will assume full responsibility for Britain's ?1.4
:20:37. > :20:43.trillion of debt should Scots vote to leave the UK. There would be a
:20:44. > :20:45.negotiation to divvie it up. Alex Salmond said that would give
:20:46. > :20:50.Scotland a strong negotiating position when it comes to dividing
:20:51. > :20:52.up the debt. And there have been questions over plans for an
:20:53. > :20:55.independent Scotland to continue to charge English students tuition
:20:56. > :20:59.fees, while other EU students come for free. A former European
:21:00. > :21:09.Commissioner for Education said that would be "illegal". Joining us now
:21:10. > :21:14.from Glasgow, Blair Jenkins who leads the "yes" campaign, Blair
:21:15. > :21:17.Mcdue a, campaign director for Better Together. You have to be
:21:18. > :21:20.called Blair to be able to lead the campaign in Scotland or to be a
:21:21. > :21:24.Labour Prime Minister. Blair Jenkins. When William Hague
:21:25. > :21:28.says that an independent Scotland would have to reapply for member -
:21:29. > :21:31.put aside his remarks about the euro - but would have to reapply for
:21:32. > :21:36.membership of of the European Union, that is now the settled opinion of
:21:37. > :21:40.those who know, isn't it? No, it is not the case, Andrew, not the case
:21:41. > :21:43.at all. When we heard that David Cameron was despatching the Foreign
:21:44. > :21:46.Secretary to Scotland today, we wondered if he'd already conceded
:21:47. > :21:49.the referendum result but perhaps that will come later in the year. I
:21:50. > :21:53.think it is accepted by lots of people who have looked at this, who
:21:54. > :21:56.are expert that it is not - this is not something that he can settled
:21:57. > :21:59.legally and it won't be settled legally. This is about political
:22:00. > :22:04.process. Therefore, what you have to look at is the political reality of
:22:05. > :22:11.the EU, what its priorities are, it's a naturally-democratically
:22:12. > :22:15.human rights' based club. It is instinctively and institutionally
:22:16. > :22:18.expansionist. Sure but you would have to renegotiate Scotland's
:22:19. > :22:22.membership. From within. You wouldn't be within. You would. A
:22:23. > :22:25.transition process that begins from the "yes" vote in September this
:22:26. > :22:29.year and 18 months until Independence Day and the bulk of the
:22:30. > :22:31.transition process could be accommodated within that time and
:22:32. > :22:35.transition arrangements would kick in. There is no precedent. I'm sure
:22:36. > :22:39.you have heard this before, there is no provision anywhere in the
:22:40. > :22:45.European Treaty for territory people who have been in the EU for 40
:22:46. > :22:49.years, remember, to be excluded. OK. Blair McDougall. It is a bit rich
:22:50. > :22:53.for the unionists side to say, oh, well, if Scotland leaves you'll have
:22:54. > :22:56.to renegotiate membership when the United Kingdom is heading for a
:22:57. > :23:02.referendum. I mean, the sure way of Scots staying in the European Union
:23:03. > :23:08.is to vote for independence. Well, I think the one thing that is clear,
:23:09. > :23:12.as has been made perfectly clear by your questioning, is if we leave the
:23:13. > :23:15.UK, we leave the European Union. All three parties within Better
:23:16. > :23:19.Together. All three of the main UK political parties, want to remain
:23:20. > :23:25.within the United European Union. But I think those arguments of UKIP,
:23:26. > :23:28.that say that the UK should leave the European Union are as
:23:29. > :23:31.wrong-headed as the argument we hear from the nationalists up here. What
:23:32. > :23:36.would happen if Scotland stays within the UK? We have a referendum
:23:37. > :23:42.European membership, Scotland votes to stay in England overall, England
:23:43. > :23:45.votes to leaf and the weight of English votes means the whole of the
:23:46. > :23:49.UK comes out That was the point I was making. Those arguments of UKIP
:23:50. > :23:53.to leave the European Union are as bad as those arguments to leave
:23:54. > :23:58.Scotland, that we hear from the nationalists. Scotland, yes, we sell
:23:59. > :24:02.a lot to the European Union, but we sell four times as much to see rest
:24:03. > :24:07.of the UK as we do to the European Union. Our best future is to remain
:24:08. > :24:10.within the UK and through remaining in the United Kingdom and having a
:24:11. > :24:13.more certain future within the European Union, than we would as
:24:14. > :24:17.part of independence. Let me just say, Blair Jenkins has just said
:24:18. > :24:20.that this is now a political matter. We remember, because it was your
:24:21. > :24:24.interview a year ago, Andrew, that caught out the First Minister when
:24:25. > :24:27.he said it was a legal matter. It turned out he had lied about the
:24:28. > :24:32.legal advice we had on the European Union. He is not here. He is at it
:24:33. > :24:36.again with tuition fees. He is not here to defend himself. Let me move
:24:37. > :24:41.on to tuition fees, Blair Jenkins. At the moment Scottish universities
:24:42. > :24:45.charge English students fees, indeed charge fees from anybody outside
:24:46. > :24:48.Scotland within the United Kingdom but they don't charge, under
:24:49. > :24:52.European law, they are not allowed to charge, French, German or Italian
:24:53. > :24:55.students. Now if ask the land becomes independent, England will be
:24:56. > :24:59.in exactly the same position as France or Germany. By what legal
:25:00. > :25:05.basis could you charge English students tuition fees? Well, the
:25:06. > :25:07.advice that the universities body, University Scotland, got, is that it
:25:08. > :25:10.would be possible to continue with that policy on the basis that there
:25:11. > :25:14.were exceptional circumstances. Scotland is aJayes ented to the
:25:15. > :25:17.country that charges the -- adjacent. That charges the highest
:25:18. > :25:20.level of tuition fees to anyone in Europe. That's a special
:25:21. > :25:24.circumstance, the land border and shared language. Who gave the
:25:25. > :25:27.advice? From a firm of solicitors. I should say, for people in the
:25:28. > :25:31.Scotland, where we think the principle of free access to
:25:32. > :25:34.education is important, the ability to learn not pay, our ideal solution
:25:35. > :25:38.when Scotland becomes independent, is that the people of England elect
:25:39. > :25:43.a Government that's committed to higher education and stops charging
:25:44. > :25:48.?9,000 a year. All very well but if you go independent you will have no
:25:49. > :25:52.say over who runs England. That's a price you pay for separation. My
:25:53. > :25:58.point is, I cannot foresee on any legal challenge whatsoever, that you
:25:59. > :26:01.could win, discriminating against English students, if Scotland is an
:26:02. > :26:06.independent country that you could say that German students and French
:26:07. > :26:10.students can come free, but English students, you are going to have to
:26:11. > :26:13.pay. Well, as I say, there's very good information making the
:26:14. > :26:17.exceptional circumstances argument. Has the Scottish Government had
:26:18. > :26:21.advice on this? Well, so they say. Has the Scottish Government had
:26:22. > :26:26.legal advice? I don't speech for the Scottish Government, Andrew but I am
:26:27. > :26:29.quoting from University Scotland. I think, it is one of these
:26:30. > :26:32.interesting areas, where, you know, the only way to get certainty with
:26:33. > :26:35.some of these issues which involve the position that the European Union
:26:36. > :26:39.or the European Commission would take, would be to directly ask the
:26:40. > :26:43.European Commission, the European Union, what their view would be. The
:26:44. > :26:47.onlientity that can do that is the UK Government but the UK Government
:26:48. > :26:50.has an interest in maximum confusion and maximum uncertainty, which is
:26:51. > :26:55.why they are not go to Europe and ask what the position will be for
:26:56. > :26:59.Scotland in terms of transition to full membership. Well they are not
:27:00. > :27:03.the ones trying to break up the United Kingdom. Blair McDougall. Why
:27:04. > :27:09.are you, in the Better Together campaign, being accused of running a
:27:10. > :27:12.comatose campaign Comatose? Well we are trying to ask difficult
:27:13. > :27:15.questions. The nationalists don't like that and attack the campaign
:27:16. > :27:19.for asking questions. This is a great example of that. Blair Jenkins
:27:20. > :27:22.just said the only person that could ask the European Commission what
:27:23. > :27:26.they thought about this tuition fees issue was the UKKer Government.
:27:27. > :27:29.That's in the true. The Guardian newspaper asked the current
:27:30. > :27:33.education Commissioner what they thought of this issue earlier on in
:27:34. > :27:36.the week. It wasn't just the previous commissioner who said they
:27:37. > :27:39.thought it was illegal. The current Commissioner said they thought it
:27:40. > :27:42.was illegal. But, look, the SNP Government could clear up so much of
:27:43. > :27:46.this tomorrow by releasing the legal advice on the European Union, by
:27:47. > :27:50.releasing the legal advice on this specific issue of tuition fees,
:27:51. > :27:54.which they won't even say whether they have or not As Blair Jenkins
:27:55. > :27:59.say, he doesn't speech for the Scottish Government, he is running
:28:00. > :28:02.the campaign. Blair oncoins, you are only eight months away from the
:28:03. > :28:06.referendum and still the polls are not moving your way. What is going
:28:07. > :28:11.wrong? Well, lots of things are happening. Any momentum is towards
:28:12. > :28:14."yes", an dru. I know you have followed this. We have now had a
:28:15. > :28:17.sequence of public meetings and debates, schools, colleges,
:28:18. > :28:21.universities. Ever are I time you have a public debate where a vote is
:28:22. > :28:24.taken before and after, the momentum, the shift is towards
:28:25. > :28:28."yes". Our own research tells us, as people become more informed and
:28:29. > :28:32.engage with the debate they move towards "yes". We are in no doubt
:28:33. > :28:35.that, as the year progresses, the polls will catch up with the
:28:36. > :28:39.campaign. Finally, it is interesting what you say there, but when do you
:28:40. > :28:43.- when would you now expect to see that reflected in the polls? When
:28:44. > :28:48.will you start to - do you think you will start to see the gap between
:28:49. > :28:52.yes and no narrowing in your favour? Well, what we know for a fact
:28:53. > :28:57.Andrew, and people have told us this, a lot of people will make
:28:58. > :29:02.their mind up on their day which will put a strain on my nervous
:29:03. > :29:05.system and others, but we have to live with that. Blair andably, come
:29:06. > :29:13.back as a doubling act again. Thank you very much. It's the middle of
:29:14. > :29:16.January, a month afflicted by too much rain, dark afternoons and
:29:17. > :29:20.diets. So for our MPs, what better way to boost morale than a letter,
:29:21. > :29:24.from a top surgeon, now sitting in the House of Lords, telling them all
:29:25. > :29:28.to shape up and lose weight. Iain McColl says politicians need to set
:29:29. > :29:32.an example to the rest of us. He'll join us in a moment. First, though,
:29:33. > :29:34.here's a reminder of how some politicians at least try to stay
:29:35. > :30:11.fit. And Ian McColl joins me now. So, our
:30:12. > :30:16.MPs eating too much of the gross national product? Some of them are,
:30:17. > :30:21.yes. It is the worst epidemic we have had in 90 years, it is killing
:30:22. > :30:25.millions, costing millions, and the cure is free. And you want MPs to
:30:26. > :30:30.set a better example? I think it would help, yes. There is no good as
:30:31. > :30:34.telling other people what to do if we do not do it ourselves. That is
:30:35. > :30:39.true, but you have seen the lifestyle across the road, is it not
:30:40. > :30:44.mission impossible? No. I have been talking about this for many years in
:30:45. > :30:48.Parliament, and when I walk along the corridor now, when they see me
:30:49. > :30:58.coming, they tighten their belts, and they say, we are trying. You
:30:59. > :31:02.have made them feel guilty? But there are eight or ten bars, dozens
:31:03. > :31:08.of restaurants, it is a sedentary lifestyle, it is not healthy. No,
:31:09. > :31:13.but all they have to do is eat less to reduce their weight. Exercise is
:31:14. > :31:18.nothing much to do with it, really, which is good. You are obviously
:31:19. > :31:24.naturally quite slim, aren't you? No, I do not tell anybody to lose
:31:25. > :31:32.weight, I just tell them the facts. And also the consequences. One thing
:31:33. > :31:36.which they could seriously do in the House of Commons is, in all of the
:31:37. > :31:42.cafeterias, there is one healthy all of the other meals are pretty
:31:43. > :31:49.fattening. Maybe you should have one unhealthy option instead? Exactly,
:31:50. > :31:56.so that could be a good starting point. With me, it is all due to one
:31:57. > :32:05.of my patience. I was on my way to a black-tie dinner, wearing a black
:32:06. > :32:10.tie which was 50 years old, and I go up to the bedside in Barts Hospital,
:32:11. > :32:16.and she says, that is very old. I said, it is 50 years old, and she
:32:17. > :32:21.says, it looks it. She says, I am dying, I know there is no hope, but
:32:22. > :32:29.I want you to take me to the theatre now. I shook her warmly by the
:32:30. > :32:34.hand, she was operated on that night, and she survived seven years.
:32:35. > :32:40.She was a tailor. During that time, she made me a new black-tie outfit.
:32:41. > :32:45.So it is attributed to her. Quite right. Some politicians I am told
:32:46. > :32:49.have taken your advice to heart. There is a Weight Watchers group in
:32:50. > :32:55.Parliament now? Yes, they do good work, really. Lord Falconer, you
:32:56. > :32:59.probably know, has reduced his weight very substantially. I have
:33:00. > :33:06.not seen him for a while. There is a wider point, that we seem to be
:33:07. > :33:12.faced with an obesity epidemic, and as yet, we do not know how to
:33:13. > :33:17.reverse it. Well, the way to reverse it is to encourage people to eat
:33:18. > :33:24.food that is chewy. The more you have to chew it, it sends impulses
:33:25. > :33:28.to your brain, telling you you have had enough. So, we need food which
:33:29. > :33:35.is not refined. We need porridge, wholemeal bread, a special kind of
:33:36. > :33:37.pasta, which the Italian government tried to ban, because you cannot eat
:33:38. > :33:47.so much of it, but it is very good. Time to get the answer to our quiz.
:33:48. > :33:49.The question was, David Cameron told the Westminster correspondents
:33:50. > :33:52.dinner his priority for 2014 would be what? Was it... Knocking UKIP
:33:53. > :33:57.into last place at the European elections? To avoid being snapped
:33:58. > :34:03.getting changed on the beach? To keep his bald spot hidden? Or to be
:34:04. > :34:14.best friends with Ed Balls? So, Beth - what's the correct answer? I was
:34:15. > :34:18.there, and I did not drink, but I think it was number three, the bald
:34:19. > :34:23.patch. That is correct. Was the food healthy last night at this dinner?
:34:24. > :34:28.No, it wasn't. It was delicious, though. It was lovely.
:34:29. > :34:31.It's just gone half past 12. Coming up in a moment, it's our regular
:34:32. > :34:35.look at what's been going on in European politics. For now, it's
:34:36. > :34:38.time to say goodbye to my Guest of the Day, Elizabeth Rigby.
:34:39. > :34:43.So for the next half an hour, we're going to be focusing on Europe.
:34:44. > :34:46.We'll be discussing restrictions on EU migration and the European
:34:47. > :34:50.elections, and asking what the EU budget is spent on. First though,
:34:51. > :35:00.here's our guide to the latest from Europe in just 60 seconds.
:35:01. > :35:07.Maltese plans to sell their passports to wealthy foreigners for
:35:08. > :35:11.650,000 euros a time have made the EU cross. Under the skin, buyers
:35:12. > :35:16.would be able to live in any of the 28 member states. Justice
:35:17. > :35:26.Commissioner Viviane Reding led the assault. Greek Prime Minister set
:35:27. > :35:30.out his country's stall as well. Jobs, growth and social cohesion
:35:31. > :35:38.will top the agenda. Tough talking from George Osborne on the future of
:35:39. > :35:46.the EU. There is a simple choice for Europe the focus on Francois
:35:47. > :35:53.Hollande's private life was also on the front pages. Good news for honey
:35:54. > :36:05.producers. MPs have decided pollen is a natural factor, and not an
:36:06. > :36:08.ingredient. Sweet! And with us for the next 25 minutes, I've been
:36:09. > :36:11.joined by the Conservative MEP Kay Swinburne, and Paul Nuttall from the
:36:12. > :36:15.UK Independence Party. Let's take a look at one of those stories in more
:36:16. > :36:25.detail - the Maltese government scheme to sell EU passports for
:36:26. > :36:29.650,000 euros a pop. That is about half ?1 million. Should that be
:36:30. > :36:34.legal? Well, what you have got to think about is that they are not
:36:35. > :36:38.just selling Maltese passports, these people can then go across the
:36:39. > :36:43.border to other countries. Ireland has done it, and Portugal as well.
:36:44. > :36:48.Ireland has made over ?200 million from this. The Spanish have done it.
:36:49. > :36:51.It is happening across the board. I think the bigger problem is not
:36:52. > :36:54.selling passports to wealthy businessmen, who will then invest in
:36:55. > :36:59.Malta, the bigger problem is countries like Bulgaria and Romania
:37:00. > :37:02.handing out passports to people from Macedonia and other countries. Is
:37:03. > :37:07.there evidence of that? Yes, there is. Also, with Spain, which has
:37:08. > :37:13.given amnesties in the past two people from Morocco. The problem
:37:14. > :37:17.there is that if you look at Spain, it has got nearly 60% youth
:37:18. > :37:22.unemployment, these people will gradually drift west. Is Malta doing
:37:23. > :37:27.different from what we do? As I understand it, we have a VISA
:37:28. > :37:31.programme scheme for what is called a tier one investor, it is a point
:37:32. > :37:35.space to system, you get the passport if you can contribute ?1
:37:36. > :37:39.million to remain in the country? I think there are many countries
:37:40. > :37:42.around the world, certainly the US and Canada and others have it,
:37:43. > :37:46.scheme is in place in most countries just fundamentally, this is a case
:37:47. > :37:54.where each country can decide what their rules are. Once they have
:37:55. > :37:57.decided, they must abide by them. But the point is that you are not
:37:58. > :38:01.just giving them a Maltese passport, they are then free to go
:38:02. > :38:06.everywhere. So surely it must be a concern of the European Commission?
:38:07. > :38:11.We need to make sure that the rules which are set out by Malta, they
:38:12. > :38:16.need to adhere to them. At the moment, there is no evidence to
:38:17. > :38:19.suggest that they are outside of those European rules.
:38:20. > :38:23.Being able to travel freely to live and work in any country across the
:38:24. > :38:26.European Union was one of the founding principles of the Treaty of
:38:27. > :38:29.Rome. But with poorer countries like Romania and Bulgaria joining the EU
:38:30. > :38:33.in recent years, David Cameron has suggested there should be limits to
:38:34. > :38:37.the freedom of movement of European citizens. That has been met with a
:38:38. > :38:47.hostile reaction in the European Parliament this week. Here's Jo.
:38:48. > :38:52.As an EU citizen, with one of these, I can arrive in a French city like
:38:53. > :38:56.Strasbourg and start working and even settle down here if I want,
:38:57. > :39:01.just like workers from other member states, including Bulgaria and
:39:02. > :39:05.Romania. But one man is trying to change that, by calling for tougher
:39:06. > :39:09.controls on freedom of movement from poorer EU countries, even with talk
:39:10. > :39:14.of it cap on the numbers able to come and work in Britain. That has
:39:15. > :39:19.been met with derision by leading figures at the European Parliament,
:39:20. > :39:28.who say the idea will not fly. If David Cameron wants to redefine the
:39:29. > :39:35.relationship between the United Kingdom and the European Union, that
:39:36. > :39:39.sounds for me is surprising. The relationship with a body to which
:39:40. > :39:44.you belong defines a relationship with yourself. I would like to make
:39:45. > :39:50.it very clear, it is a right which is not up for negotiation. It cannot
:39:51. > :39:54.come as a surprise to anybody that the principle of free movement
:39:55. > :39:59.exists, and that it is applicable throughout the union, without
:40:00. > :40:02.discrimination, because we do not want first-class and second-class
:40:03. > :40:06.citizens in Europe. The problem for David Cameron is that the principle
:40:07. > :40:09.of freedom of movement is etched into the fabric of the European
:40:10. > :40:15.Union. Many here at the Parliament say it is non-negotiable. To stop it
:40:16. > :40:22.in principle or to describe late against workers from particular
:40:23. > :40:26.countries, I think there can be a possibility of discrimination.
:40:27. > :40:31.Therefore, this would be against European law, against treaty law,
:40:32. > :40:37.and I think nearly everyone else will defend this question of free
:40:38. > :40:42.movement. What is getting a better reception here in Strasbourg is the
:40:43. > :40:47.debate around restricting EU migrant workers' access to benefits. The
:40:48. > :40:50.Work and Pensions Secretary has suggested two years before welfare
:40:51. > :40:53.can be claimed. The Labour Party agrees with the Government on reform
:40:54. > :40:57.but does not like the tone of the debate. It is the way they have gone
:40:58. > :40:59.about it. It is the way they have gone about it just you cannot work
:41:00. > :41:03.with people who have similar views as you here if you have got one hand
:41:04. > :41:08.on the exit all. You need to work with those people, not threaten them
:41:09. > :41:11.and not lecture them. When it comes to Europe, the coalition partners
:41:12. > :41:15.have always gone in different directions. But one Liberal Democrat
:41:16. > :41:21.is in no doubt what is behind David Cameron's current tough talk on EU
:41:22. > :41:26.migration. It is UKIP, I am afraid. I was a Conservative for many years
:41:27. > :41:28.and fell out with David Cameron over his policy of aligning with some
:41:29. > :41:33.rather strange people in the European Union. I think upcoming
:41:34. > :41:37.elections will be about the difference between in and out. The
:41:38. > :41:40.Liberal Democrats are the party of in, we want to see the benefits from
:41:41. > :41:47.membership of the European Union in good times and bad. David Cameron's
:41:48. > :41:51.promise of an in-out referendum on a reformed EU was meant to keep Tory
:41:52. > :41:54.Eurosceptics on board, but it is clearly not enough for some
:41:55. > :41:57.Conservatives who, like UKIP, believe it is time for Britain to
:41:58. > :42:03.pack its bags and leave the EU altogether. She is always going
:42:04. > :42:10.somewhere! Jo Coburn reporting. And we've been joined by Bulgaria's
:42:11. > :42:14.Foreign Minister, Kristian Vigenin. Foreign Minister, thank you for
:42:15. > :42:18.joining us. You have described the British attitude to free movement as
:42:19. > :42:23.an intimidation campaign, that is pretty strong, is it not? That is
:42:24. > :42:30.the way Bulgarian citizens have seen this campaign. That is why I had to
:42:31. > :42:36.say it as we felt it. But of course, what is more important now that this
:42:37. > :42:40.campaign has proved to be grounded is that we are ready to reset our
:42:41. > :42:44.relations and start giving positive messages on both sides. This is a
:42:45. > :42:50.country which over the past 12 years or so has taken in around 3 million,
:42:51. > :42:55.a net increase of 3 million migrants, it is hardly an
:42:56. > :43:00.unwelcoming country, in general? Definitely, that is why we were
:43:01. > :43:11.surprised by the debate which was going on in the past year.
:43:12. > :43:19.Bulgarians are not a nation which is ready to come in big numbers to the
:43:20. > :43:22.United Kingdom. We have proved in past years that those Bulgarians
:43:23. > :43:27.that are already here in the United Kingdom, they contribute, they are
:43:28. > :43:32.good members of the communities where they live. That is why this
:43:33. > :43:37.campaign was not understandable for us. Is it not an even bigger problem
:43:38. > :43:42.for Bulgaria, though, that you are going to lose, or you are at risk of
:43:43. > :43:49.losing, some of your best, your brightest, your hardest working,
:43:50. > :43:52.best educated people, leaving Bulgaria and coming here, and we
:43:53. > :43:57.will get the benefit of them? It is true. If we talk about the problem,
:43:58. > :44:01.I would say that sometimes it is a bigger problem for us, because
:44:02. > :44:06.highly educated people do not stay and work for our economy, but they
:44:07. > :44:10.support the British economy. That is part of the rules within the
:44:11. > :44:19.European Union. People are free to go where they like, where they will
:44:20. > :44:24.feel welcome, and where they would like to continue their lives. So, we
:44:25. > :44:29.are ready, and we do accept that. On our side, we also have to accept
:44:30. > :44:34.some difficult rules, including, by the way, another transitional
:44:35. > :44:43.period, which was in our accession treaty, which means that EU citizens
:44:44. > :44:47.are allowed to come and buy agricultural land in Bulgaria. There
:44:48. > :44:51.was a debate, but our government said really, it is part of our
:44:52. > :44:58.commitments, it is not negotiable, and yes, from this month onward, we
:44:59. > :45:02.are applying these rules. The evidence we have seen so far, very
:45:03. > :45:07.early days, but there has not been an avalanche of Bulgarians or
:45:08. > :45:10.Romanians coming to the country and those who have been coming have been
:45:11. > :45:14.coming here to work. But do you have a view as to when it is appropriate
:45:15. > :45:18.for people who come here, when they should qualify? How long should they
:45:19. > :45:25.have to be here before they qualify for welfare? I wouldn't enter in a
:45:26. > :45:29.debate about the possibly changes in the welfare system and Social
:45:30. > :45:33.Security system of the United Kingdom. It is, of course, a
:45:34. > :45:37.national responsibility and the national governments and parliaments
:45:38. > :45:43.have wide possibilities to change their rules. Of course, within the
:45:44. > :45:46.European rules - that is why experts of the European Commission will
:45:47. > :45:52.follow closely what is being proposed and adopted in the United
:45:53. > :45:57.Kingdom, will do it as well. What is important, is that any change is not
:45:58. > :46:01.being done in a discriminatory way and this is the general agreement
:46:02. > :46:06.and confirmation, as well, yesterday, in my meetings with
:46:07. > :46:13.parliamentarians, leaders of committees and also with Mr Hague
:46:14. > :46:18.and Mr Liddington, who confirmed, re-confirmed, I must say that any
:46:19. > :46:22.change will have no discriminatory nature. That's very important. Thank
:46:23. > :46:28.you very much for joining us. Forcing force Hasn't this turned out
:46:29. > :46:33.to be a storm in a teacup? I think there are two things here. The first
:46:34. > :46:36.one is that we do, in our country, have always welcomed people who want
:46:37. > :46:39.to come here and work and likewise, a lot of British people choose to go
:46:40. > :46:43.and work elsewhere within the European Union. That I think, is
:46:44. > :46:45.without doubt a very positive thing and people generally are quite
:46:46. > :46:49.welcoming of that. Particularly given that many of our doctors and
:46:50. > :46:55.professionals and certainly the City of London benefits hugely from many
:46:56. > :46:59.of those European traders working. But the real issue is about no
:47:00. > :47:03.continuity or consistency in social and welfare benefits across Europe.
:47:04. > :47:07.Some countries allow you to actually have access to welfare within three
:47:08. > :47:10.months, some within six months, some within a year, there is no
:47:11. > :47:14.consistency. The UK actually had open access to welfare from day one.
:47:15. > :47:17.We have now changed that. I think once we start it put these changes
:47:18. > :47:21.in place and start it make sure that people come here to work, people
:47:22. > :47:24.come here and benefit our economy, then we can start it make a
:47:25. > :47:30.difference but we need to get this on the table for debate. OK, hold
:47:31. > :47:34.on. We have to let Paul Nuttal have a say. The big issue is that freedom
:47:35. > :47:39.of movement of people might work when you are talking about similar
:47:40. > :47:45.economies but when you open up to the whole of Eastern Europe. Take
:47:46. > :47:51.gull gayia. The minimum wage -- Bulgaria. The minute yum wage is 150
:47:52. > :47:54.euro a month. Traffic is only ever going to be one way. We have a
:47:55. > :47:58.million of our own kids unemployed in this country. For every one that
:47:59. > :48:04.comes in. That's not necessarily the fault of Romanians or Bulgarians?
:48:05. > :48:08.Sno no, a fault of the systems. MPs at Westminster have got that wrong.
:48:09. > :48:11.We should have a points-based system. If we need the skills you
:48:12. > :48:15.have, come here and work but with you shouldn't have an open border.
:48:16. > :48:19.But your party leader was predicting they would be pouring in. There is
:48:20. > :48:24.no evidence of that yet? He will be quite disappointed, won't he? We are
:48:25. > :48:27.only 17 days in. I understand. Many think-tanks, including Migration
:48:28. > :48:33.Watch UK think there will be 250,000 over the next five years. Additional
:48:34. > :48:38.to those already here? 250,000 Romanians and Bulgarians? Yes. Over
:48:39. > :48:42.five years. The institute for democracy say it is going to be
:48:43. > :48:47.380,000, that's a city not too dissimilar it bris to. As far as I'm
:48:48. > :48:51.concerned it makes no sense to have an open border when we have 2. 4
:48:52. > :48:54.million people unemployed in our country. If we stay in the European
:48:55. > :48:58.Union, the issue of welfare payments, when you qualify, it is a
:48:59. > :49:03.different matter but the principle in the Treaty of Rome of free
:49:04. > :49:07.movement of peoples. It doesn't say free movement of workers or benefit
:49:08. > :49:11.seekers. It says free movement of seekers T covers everybody. There is
:49:12. > :49:14.no appetite in the European Union to change that cardinal principle. We
:49:15. > :49:18.are asking for a debate. I think Vivien Reading as Commissioner
:49:19. > :49:22.called it popularism. I call it dome crasscy. We need to have a grown-up
:49:23. > :49:28.debate. You want to re-open this clause, clause 3 C of the Treaty of
:49:29. > :49:33.Rome? I think we need it ensure as the EU enlarges and it will, we have
:49:34. > :49:38.countries who are signed up to come and join, that we have sensible
:49:39. > :49:42.rules. That they have to get to is enstandards before they are allowed
:49:43. > :49:47.that right of free movement and free package. And if they get their way
:49:48. > :49:52.we'll have Ukraine, Serbia and... Well it won't matter do you, if you
:49:53. > :50:01.get your way. We will be out. We'll be able to control our borders. As
:50:02. > :50:04.you may know already, 2014 is the year of fresh elections to the
:50:05. > :50:08.European Parliament. The vote will take place in May. In Britain, polls
:50:09. > :50:11.will open on Thursday the 22nd, but votes won't be counted until Sunday,
:50:12. > :50:14.25th May because other European countries vote at the weekend. Up
:50:15. > :50:20.for grabs, 751 seats across 28 nations. In the UK, 73 MEPs will be
:50:21. > :50:27.returned, with seats allocated according to share of the vote. The
:50:28. > :50:30.outcome of the election will determine the make up of the
:50:31. > :50:36.European Parliament for the next five years. But the vote is also
:50:37. > :50:39.important because, for the first time, national leaders will have to
:50:40. > :50:43.take the result into account when deciding who should be the next
:50:44. > :50:45.president of the EU Commission. That's led the pan-European
:50:46. > :50:51.political groupings to nominate their own candidates. The Party of
:50:52. > :50:53.European Socialists has already made Martin Schulz, the current President
:50:54. > :50:59.of the European Parliament, their choice for Commission President. The
:51:00. > :51:02.Liberal grouping will decide next month whether to choose Ollie Rehn,
:51:03. > :51:10.the current Economic Affairs Commissioner, or Guy Verhofstadt, a
:51:11. > :51:15.former Prime Minister of Belgium. He is a well-known federalist. Paul
:51:16. > :51:20.Nuttal is shaking his head here like I mentioned the devil. And in March
:51:21. > :51:27.the right-of-centre European People's Party will decide their
:51:28. > :51:30.candidate. The two declared candidates so far are Jean Claude
:51:31. > :51:32.Juncker, former Luxembourg PM and Michel Barnier who is the EU
:51:33. > :51:39.Commissioner for the Internal Market. He is French. So there we
:51:40. > :51:42.go. OK. Who would you like to be the next president? None of the above is
:51:43. > :51:46.the answer it that. #12k3w4r do you have a candidate yourself? I
:51:47. > :51:49.genuinely feel that this needs to be decided amongst the Member States.
:51:50. > :51:56.It's their prerogative to decide who should be the next president of the
:51:57. > :52:00.Commission? Do you have a candidate? I would like to see the next UK
:52:01. > :52:05.Commissioner. Who is that? We don't know yet and we won't until July. I
:52:06. > :52:11.would actually like to have the Commissioner... I don't believe the
:52:12. > :52:14.Lisbon Treaty said, the European Parliament should dictate who it
:52:15. > :52:18.should be. Who would you like the next President to be? No-one, I
:52:19. > :52:22.don't think we should be in the European Union. I knew we were going
:52:23. > :52:25.to say that. Predictable. Assuming you don't get your way, who would
:52:26. > :52:29.you like? None of the above. All that will happen is it'll be a big
:52:30. > :52:32.group stitch-up like we have with the president of the European
:52:33. > :52:35.Parliament. The socialist also select their man or they'll come to
:52:36. > :52:39.a deal and the EPP will select theirs. It won't be democratic,
:52:40. > :52:44.it'll be business as usual. What is it going to do to the European
:52:45. > :52:47.Parliament, indeed the whole European project, if after May, we
:52:48. > :52:54.have in the European Parliament, a huge group of maybe 35%, maybe more
:52:55. > :52:59.of those outside the mainstream right, and to the further right - I
:53:00. > :53:08.mean UKIP hopes to do very well. Your party is currently third place
:53:09. > :53:11.in the polls. Madam LePenn is ahead in the polls in France at the moment
:53:12. > :53:16.and more in France and Italy. What will that do? My concern is that
:53:17. > :53:19.most of the work is done in committee and legislation,
:53:20. > :53:23.individual dossiers. UKIP doented work on those dossiers, in my
:53:24. > :53:26.committee. What does that mean? Less people doing more work and the
:53:27. > :53:30.centre will have to work harder to get the votes through on
:53:31. > :53:34.proportionate decisions. Is it right to say that such a big chunk of the
:53:35. > :53:38.European Parliament - will that mean more clashes between the Parliament
:53:39. > :53:42.and the Brussels elite? I hope so, in a way. Because at the moment
:53:43. > :53:45.they've had an easy ride - well they certainly had an easy ride before
:53:46. > :53:49.UKIP arrived. I think the make-up of the Parliament is going to change
:53:50. > :53:53.radically next time. And maybe, just maybe, they will start listening to
:53:54. > :53:56.national democracies a little bit more. Do you still think you will
:53:57. > :54:00.come first? I certainly hope so. Do you think you will come first. We
:54:01. > :54:06.are in with a good chance. You are getting very political these days.
:54:07. > :54:10.The biggest chunk the European Union budget goes to farmers in the form
:54:11. > :54:15.of the comaul, it still does. Where does the second-largest chunk go? --
:54:16. > :54:19.Common Agricultural Policy. Not to flags or MPs' pensions. It is
:54:20. > :54:24.sent back to the Member States to be spent on their poorest areas. Over
:54:25. > :54:28.the next seven years it'll be worth more than 300 billion euros. Where
:54:29. > :54:32.does it all go? In the latest instalment of our A to Z of the
:54:33. > :54:41.European Union, Adam has been looking at EU regional funds.
:54:42. > :54:49.Welcome to Cornwall, in the eyes of Brussels, on a par with Sicily or
:54:50. > :54:52.transvainia. That's because Cornwall's annual income is less
:54:53. > :54:57.than three-quarters of the EU average which means it qual face for
:54:58. > :55:02.special regional funding, called convergence, designed to even out
:55:03. > :55:07.economic disparities across Europe. Here and Wales are the only places
:55:08. > :55:12.in the UK that get it. In typical EU-style there is a flotilla of
:55:13. > :55:15.other funds, too, but the bulk of regional money goes to regions like
:55:16. > :55:21.this. In corn wall's case, half a billion pounds over six years. So,
:55:22. > :55:26.where has it gone? This yacht builders was awarded ?190,000. Like
:55:27. > :55:29.all beneficiaries, they had to match the funding with their own money.
:55:30. > :55:36.And this is what it paid for. The mould for making the hull for a new
:55:37. > :55:40.model of yacht. The Rustler 37.
:55:41. > :55:44.The Boats go to the superrich but they are helping to spread the
:55:45. > :55:47.wealth by creating jobs. Cornwall is pretty around the outside and in
:55:48. > :55:51.summer when all the range Rovers come down from London and park
:55:52. > :55:54.outside their lovely holiday cottages, if feels difference but
:55:55. > :55:58.you drive in five miles and the individual was at a low ebb. Over
:55:59. > :56:02.the last ten years, I think there has been a huge change. Up the road,
:56:03. > :56:08.this use the to be fields. Now courtesy of the EU, it is a higher
:56:09. > :56:12.education campus. The centre-piece - the University of Exeter's
:56:13. > :56:20.environment and sustainability institute a nip at ?21 million.
:56:21. > :56:25.They all seem cheap compared to the biggest product, superfast
:56:26. > :56:30.broadband. BT got ?55. 5 million to pay for t with the company stumping
:56:31. > :56:35.up the same amount. It all comes together here at the innovation
:56:36. > :56:40.centre. ! Try the headset on. The investment
:56:41. > :56:44.in the internet, new work spaces, education and employment, lured this
:56:45. > :56:48.games company which has gone from one worker last summer to 11 by the
:56:49. > :56:55.end of this month. They just made me feel a bit six. It is so weird. !
:56:56. > :57:00.There isn't really an aspect of the business operation down here which
:57:01. > :57:05.isn't in some way affected by European Union convergence funding.
:57:06. > :57:08.So, do you go to bed every night thanking the founding fathers of the
:57:09. > :57:13.EU? I wouldn't say that necessarily. I wouldn't say I think about it that
:57:14. > :57:19.deeply but it certainly is something that has made - it's made it a will
:57:20. > :57:26.the easier for us. In return, the EU gets its flag prast mraserred
:57:27. > :57:30.everywhere. Yes, everywhere, which enrages critics who think the UK
:57:31. > :57:35.could spend its own money, thank you very much. Would that really be so
:57:36. > :57:38.bad? As a local councillor I'm not sure that investment would have
:57:39. > :57:41.happened. It has happened through the European Union and it is going
:57:42. > :57:45.to happen in the future and we're certainly want to do our best to
:57:46. > :57:50.make the most of that investment. Home time, and, yes, Europe funded
:57:51. > :57:54.this place, too. Brussels insiders admit not every
:57:55. > :57:58.euro of regional funding was well-spent like rural airports in
:57:59. > :58:02.Spain. A lot quieter than this one. But regional funds aren't going
:58:03. > :58:09.anywhere. They are staying a crucial and big part of the budget.
:58:10. > :58:15.Adam disappearing into the sunset there. What is not to like, look at
:58:16. > :58:19.the funds doing the all this in the West Country? Because it is our own
:58:20. > :58:25.money. In the last round Britain put in ?30 billion, we got ?#9d billion
:58:26. > :58:30.back. It is not good value for moneyment in Merseyside-for-every
:58:31. > :58:36.?2.88 we only get ?1 back. It is our money anyway, you have 20 seconds to
:58:37. > :58:40.remrie. In all variness, Wales is a huge recipient of convergence
:58:41. > :58:47.funding and cap funding. We'll take whatever money we get as long as we
:58:48. > :58:50.spend it correctly. Who can take you for taking all you can get -- who
:58:51. > :58:52.can blame you. Thank you to my guests for today. That's all for
:58:53. > :59:00.now. Goodbye.