:00:35. > :00:47.Afternoon, folks. Ed Miliband's promised some pretty "seismic
:00:48. > :00:51.changes" to his party. His words, not mine. He hopes a package of
:00:52. > :00:54.measures, to be voted on tomorrow, will change Labour's relationship
:00:55. > :00:57.with the unions and allow individuals more say in the party
:00:58. > :01:06.leadership. We'll be putting them under the spotlight. The crisis in
:01:07. > :01:08.Ukraine continues to unravel. The country's interior minister accuses
:01:09. > :01:14.Russia of an "armed invasion and occupation" of his country. He says
:01:15. > :01:19.Russian troops have taken control of two airports on the Crimean
:01:20. > :01:22.peninsula. Russia has denied involvement. The daffodils are out
:01:23. > :01:26.and the Spring Conference season is underway. Today it's UKIP's turn to
:01:27. > :01:30.steal the limelight. And they rolled out the red carpet for her. German
:01:31. > :01:36.Chancellor Angela Merkel even had a cosy cup of tea with the Queen. But
:01:37. > :01:48.her message yesterday: EU reform won't be" a piece of cake". All that
:01:49. > :01:51.in the next hour. And with us for the next half an hour is former
:01:52. > :01:56.Political Editor of the Sunday Times, Isabel Oakeshott. Welcome to
:01:57. > :01:59.the Daily Politics. Now first today, the continuing row about whether or
:02:00. > :02:02.not Harriet Harman should apologise over the links between a civil
:02:03. > :02:07.rights organisation she worked for in the 1970s and a paedophile group.
:02:08. > :02:10.Yesterday the former Labour Health Secretary, Patricia Hewitt, who was
:02:11. > :02:14.in charge of the National Council for Civil Liberties, at the time,
:02:15. > :02:17.said that she had "got it wrong" and was "naive" about the pro-paedophile
:02:18. > :02:20.group. Harriet Harman, has so far "regretted the link". Last night on
:02:21. > :02:22.Question Time, the Defence Minister, Anna Sourby was asked whether
:02:23. > :02:41.Harriet Harman should have apologised. She had this to say: it
:02:42. > :02:48.was handled badly. She should have come out and the story would have
:02:49. > :02:55.disappeared and gone away. I am really not interested between the
:02:56. > :03:02.fight between Patricia Hewitt and the Daily Mail. She has not done
:03:03. > :03:11.herself any favours. It is the Westminster consensus that Harriet
:03:12. > :03:18.Harman has got this wrong. Absolutely. I am amazed by how badly
:03:19. > :03:23.Harriet Harman has handled this row. Had she apologised
:03:24. > :03:29.straightaway, it would have gone away, as the defence minister said.
:03:30. > :03:34.There is no political capital to be made by stringing out an apology for
:03:35. > :03:47.something most people regard as indefensible. What would she be
:03:48. > :03:51.apologising for? She could say it was a mistake to be linked with the
:03:52. > :03:58.paedophile organisation. Harriet Harman was just a lawyer at the
:03:59. > :04:07.time. I do not think voters going into the fine detail of all of
:04:08. > :04:13.this. People are not bothered about the detail. The point is that people
:04:14. > :04:17.are not bothered about the fine detail and she should have made a
:04:18. > :04:22.simple apology in the way that Patricia Hewitt has done, and
:04:23. > :04:25.perhaps she was encouraged by the fight that Ed Miliband had with the
:04:26. > :04:32.Daily Mail. She thought she could win it but she will never win it.
:04:33. > :04:38.The Daily Mail is toxic for people like Harriet Harman. Do you think
:04:39. > :04:47.our judgement was skewed about how to handle this? Absolutely. Had this
:04:48. > :04:51.campaign been led by the Guardian, her attitude might have been
:04:52. > :04:55.different, but she saw it very politically right from the start and
:04:56. > :05:02.that was the wrong approach to take. When Ed Miliband was at the wrong
:05:03. > :05:06.end of the Daily Mail, he came out quite well. He had the moral high
:05:07. > :05:14.ground and it was a different fight. People felt sorry for Ed Miliband
:05:15. > :05:18.and felt that the Daily Mail had behaved inappropriately. When it
:05:19. > :05:23.comes to links with paedophile organisations, that is a much more
:05:24. > :05:29.difficult thing to get away with. I suppose it does not go away. The
:05:30. > :05:35.caravan will move on to whether Patricia Hewitt has made an apology.
:05:36. > :05:41.Harriet Harman, why can you not do the same? I do not think Harriet
:05:42. > :05:47.Harman will say any more on this. She has put out a detailed regret
:05:48. > :05:52.statement and that is as far as it goes. It has become a face saving
:05:53. > :05:56.exercise for her. Now it's time for our daily quiz. The question for
:05:57. > :06:00.today is: Which one of these is the odd one out? A) Angela Merkel b)
:06:01. > :06:07.Michelle Obama c) Larry the cat or d) Nigel Farage. And a bit later in
:06:08. > :06:13.the show Isabel will give us the correct answer. Do you know the
:06:14. > :06:17.answer? Give me time! You have plenty of time! Ed Miliband wants to
:06:18. > :06:21.shake up the Labour Party - promising "seismic changes" that he
:06:22. > :06:24.says go further than Tony Blair ever dared - he's even holding a special
:06:25. > :06:28.conference this weekend to prove it He wants unions to vote on reforms
:06:29. > :06:32.that aim to rebuild Labour as a "mass movement". He wants a change
:06:33. > :06:35.in the way the party leader is elected - demolishing the electoral
:06:36. > :06:42.college, replacing it with a one member, one vote system. Automatic
:06:43. > :06:46.union affiliation fees are also set to bite the dust. Union members will
:06:47. > :06:52.have to agree to giving their share of fees to the Party. And they'll
:06:53. > :06:55.have to pay ?3 to become an 'affiliated supporter' - changes not
:06:56. > :06:59.without financial risk. But could this destabilise the relationship
:07:00. > :07:02.with the unions? Last year the GMB union vowed to collapse their
:07:03. > :07:08.affiliation funding from ?1.2m to ?150,000. And Unite, Labour's
:07:09. > :07:11.biggest affiliated union, meet next week to discuss halving it's annual
:07:12. > :07:22.affiliation fees to ?1.5m after leader Len McCluskey described the
:07:23. > :07:30.current situation as "untenable". With me now is Sadiq Khan, the
:07:31. > :07:34.Shadow Justice Secretary. Welcome. Tomorrow is going to rubber-stamp
:07:35. > :07:42.changes that have been agreed. I hope the vote goes through. There is
:07:43. > :07:50.a special conference and they will vote yes or no to the proposals. In
:07:51. > :07:55.the end, nothing much changes and nothing changes for five years, is
:07:56. > :08:01.that not right? No. You mention the huge financial risk. The new members
:08:02. > :08:07.of trade unions will make a decision of whether to opt in. Any new member
:08:08. > :08:14.joining does this under the new rules. You mentioned that five-year
:08:15. > :08:22.period. If you remember the Chris Kelly reports, they recommended a
:08:23. > :08:25.system of opting in and thought that five-year period was sensible,
:08:26. > :08:31.bearing the difficulties that trade union members had. They said five
:08:32. > :08:37.years is the transitional periods recommended. The leader of the GMB
:08:38. > :08:42.said the collective role of trade unions in the Labour Party is not up
:08:43. > :08:53.for grabs. Is that true? There have been difference of opinions about
:08:54. > :09:00.the role that trade unions play. It is about modernising the trade union
:09:01. > :09:06.link. John Smith began this process and nobody would argue that John
:09:07. > :09:11.Smith's changes or Tony Blair's changes have led to the trade unions
:09:12. > :09:17.separating from Labour. We are after a transparent arrangement. I
:09:18. > :09:23.appreciate this is a change that has implications for the Labour Party.
:09:24. > :09:31.The unions will retain their block vote in the conference, 50% of all
:09:32. > :09:38.the boats they can control, they will still be the biggest group on
:09:39. > :09:42.the controlling committee, their own political funds will swell, and they
:09:43. > :09:46.say that they will hand the money over to you come the election, but
:09:47. > :09:55.only if they get the policies they want. Their influence could be
:09:56. > :10:16.bigger. At the moment, my vote, as a member of Parliament,
:10:17. > :10:19.bigger. At the moment, my vote, as a that they have a lot of money in the
:10:20. > :10:23.political funds, more than ever before because they are not giving
:10:24. > :10:29.it to you, and they were only handed over if they agree with the
:10:30. > :10:33.policies. We want trade union members to become candidates for
:10:34. > :10:38.Parliament, so that would be a strengthening of the relationship.
:10:39. > :10:43.We want trade union members to come to our local events. I am not
:10:44. > :10:46.embarrassed that teachers, care workers and bus drivers have more
:10:47. > :10:52.others say in the Labour Partyfuture. When Len McCluskey says
:10:53. > :10:58.this could lead to trade unions having a bigger role, that is a good
:10:59. > :11:05.thing. In a curious way, because of the changes, they may have more
:11:06. > :11:14.control over the purse strings. That is not true, come on, Andrew. We
:11:15. > :11:25.will continue to try... How much have you taken... The people in the
:11:26. > :11:30.party are ordinary members. The unions hand-out this money every
:11:31. > :11:35.year and the affiliation fees come in, you get a chunk of that. That
:11:36. > :11:41.won't happen any more and you hold onto that. They will be sitting on a
:11:42. > :11:44.pile of cash, just before the election, and they will have no
:11:45. > :11:51.leverage on what they want in the manifesto. You are making the
:11:52. > :11:58.relationship between Labour Party and trade unions are binary one,
:11:59. > :12:09.based on money. We recognise that we have lost money through the
:12:10. > :12:16.consequences of what we have done. A lot will give money as individual
:12:17. > :12:21.donors. Len McCluskey, on Newsnight this week, said that this would now
:12:22. > :12:25.give him more power over what was in the Labour manifesto. He may well
:12:26. > :12:38.say that but as a party, we have a long process to draw out policies.
:12:39. > :12:49.There will be an open process of making policies. We are very open to
:12:50. > :12:55.policy ideas. Of course. We live in the real world and money talks, and
:12:56. > :12:59.your party is not flash with cash. We are running up to an election and
:13:00. > :13:07.the unions are sitting on ?6 million. You are drawing up your
:13:08. > :13:12.manifesto and Len McCluskey says is this policy is not in the manifesto,
:13:13. > :13:17.you are not getting the money. That is not how we do business in the
:13:18. > :13:20.Labour Party. We want to be more in tune with the British public, have
:13:21. > :13:25.policies that are designed to address their concerns, and I think
:13:26. > :13:32.it is good that trade unions will have a role in the Labour Party. The
:13:33. > :13:38.cleanest form of money in British politics is from hedge funds
:13:39. > :13:44.managers, and not from millionaires. You are happy that the unions will
:13:45. > :13:49.continue to have a 50% block vote? As an obvious consequence of the
:13:50. > :13:58.changes we are making I think there will be an evolutionary process. You
:13:59. > :14:02.have got to realise that the process that began under John Smith has been
:14:03. > :14:07.evolutionary. It has benefited the party and the trade union movement.
:14:08. > :14:13.You are right, of course, about the issue of trade union bosses having
:14:14. > :14:16.more discretion over their spending. He did not answer the question about
:14:17. > :14:21.how much money is coming into the party from big business. The answer
:14:22. > :14:26.is that it is almost none. They have no big business donors. I accept
:14:27. > :14:31.your point about cleaner money from smaller donors rather than people,
:14:32. > :14:43.as you put it, having dinner in Number Ten. The final word?
:14:44. > :14:48.Hard-working trade union members who vote, I am proud of. I'm proud of
:14:49. > :14:54.the links with the trade union members. Are you going to the
:14:55. > :15:03.conference tomorrow? I am. Are you looking forward to it? I am. It
:15:04. > :15:07.should be a good event. Thank you. Always a pleasure. Now the party
:15:08. > :15:10.Spring Conference season has sprung. UKIP are in sunny Devon this
:15:11. > :15:14.weekend, in Torquay in fact. They will, of course, be hoping to do
:15:15. > :15:17.well in this year's European Elections. But what hope, in some of
:15:18. > :15:25.the other elections coming up? Adam's been to a different seaside
:15:26. > :15:30.town. Folkestone in Kent where the tide turned in UKIP's favour. Here
:15:31. > :15:36.are some of the challenges facing the party nationally. First, can
:15:37. > :15:40.UKIP win the European elections? Here is how the story goes. Everyone
:15:41. > :15:44.was convinced that UKIP would win this summer's election for the
:15:45. > :15:48.European Parliament. Then a poll came out suggesting they might only
:15:49. > :15:52.come second. The political class drew the conclusion that UKIP what
:15:53. > :15:56.run out of momentum. Don't be so hasty says the author of a new book
:15:57. > :16:01.about the party. The one thing you have to remember though about UKIP
:16:02. > :16:05.is that at previous European elections in 2004 and 2009, they
:16:06. > :16:08.surged very late on. People are already writing them off this time
:16:09. > :16:13.around. It is too early with UKIP. You have to wait until early to
:16:14. > :16:17.mid-May to begin to see whether this party is going to rocket forward
:16:18. > :16:23.like they did in 2009. But how about the general election
:16:24. > :16:28.in 2015? It will be tough because of the voting system. The party's
:16:29. > :16:31.support is spread out rather than concentrated in particular places
:16:32. > :16:37.making it hard to turn votes into seats. Unless they hunker down in a
:16:38. > :16:42.few places which begs the next question, where will Nigel Farage
:16:43. > :16:46.stand in 2015? Well, Folkestone has been suggested, but the UKIP leader
:16:47. > :16:50.says he will make the decision in June. He will like it if he comes
:16:51. > :16:55.here, there is plenty of lunch time drinking. I think he is a nice guy.
:16:56. > :17:03.He is down to earth. He is not stuck up He is a drinking man. A smoking
:17:04. > :17:08.man. And he has opinions about the safeguarding of England.
:17:09. > :17:13.REPORTER: If he turned up to join you for a pint, you would be happy?
:17:14. > :17:18.I would enjoy having a pint with him. Yeah, absolutely. But can UKIP
:17:19. > :17:21.broaden their support and reach the parts of the electorate that they
:17:22. > :17:28.need to? They are not connecting with women to the same extend they
:17:29. > :17:31.are connecting with men. They are not connecting with the Young. Their
:17:32. > :17:37.vote is very old. It will be difficult for this revolt to sustain
:17:38. > :17:44.itself over the long-term. There is a the lot of Young people in Britain
:17:45. > :17:49.who have been hit by austerity. UKIP are not connecting with them. There
:17:50. > :17:54.is the biggest question of all. By succeeding do UKIP take support from
:17:55. > :17:55.the Tories and sink any chance of a referendum on our membership of the
:17:56. > :18:02.EU? Joined now from Torquay by UKIP's
:18:03. > :18:07.Communities spokesman, Suzanne Evans. Welcome to the Daily
:18:08. > :18:13.Politics. What measures have you taken to ensure that the disaster of
:18:14. > :18:19.your last autumn conference, which Nigel Farage had to admit Jeffrey
:18:20. > :18:23.Bloom destroyed it, doesn't happen again? It won't happen again. It
:18:24. > :18:30.wasn't a disaster. There was one incident with Godfrey Bloom. I was
:18:31. > :18:34.at conference last year. It was a fantastic event. We showed our
:18:35. > :18:37.policies. We showed the depth of the talent we have on board. This
:18:38. > :18:43.conference is going to be even better. Actually, it was two
:18:44. > :18:50.incidents, Godfrey Bloom declared the UKIP conference to be full of
:18:51. > :18:54.sluts and he went on to hit someone over the head with a brochure. You
:18:55. > :18:57.are serving up free fruit cake at this conference. Does this make
:18:58. > :19:02.sense? It is one fruit cake that's on the desk at reception. It is a
:19:03. > :19:09.joke, are Andrew. It is a good joke! We are going to put up on the screen
:19:10. > :19:17.the UKIP slogan so we can see it which is, "Love Britain, vote UKIP."
:19:18. > :19:24.We have put up on the screen the BNP's slogan, "Love Britain, vote
:19:25. > :19:28.BNP." Is that wise? The BNP does not have a monopoly on any words in the
:19:29. > :19:35.English language and lots of people, lots of organisations use the
:19:36. > :19:40.slogan, "Love Britain." It is a great slogan. I love Britain. As one
:19:41. > :19:44.of the men said, Nigel Farage and UKIP stand up for this country and
:19:45. > :19:48.I'm not ashamed to say I love Britain. I don't care who used the
:19:49. > :19:52.term before, there is clear water between us and the BNP and we're
:19:53. > :19:55.just standing up for Britain. One of your image problems is that people
:19:56. > :20:01.suspect there are a lot of people on the right of your party who may not
:20:02. > :20:06.be that different from BNP. Does it make tactical sense to choose a
:20:07. > :20:10.poster slogan that minimumics the BNP?
:20:11. > :20:18.Andrew, as I said no political party has the monopoly on the words in the
:20:19. > :20:23.English language. The Guardian used the phrase, "Love Britain" When they
:20:24. > :20:26.were talking about the Edward Snowden affair. I love Britain. The
:20:27. > :20:32.party loves Britain. It is about standing up for British sovereignty
:20:33. > :20:37.in the face of the onslaught of laws and a take-over by the European
:20:38. > :20:42.Union. Nigel Farage said that UKIP has been guilty of resembling the
:20:43. > :20:49.rugby club on a day out. Is it like a rugby club in Torquay today? Well,
:20:50. > :20:54.I'm not that familiar with rugby clubs on a day out. That's not my
:20:55. > :21:02.impression are, are no. Since I joined UKIP. I have been warmly
:21:03. > :21:05.welcomed. I have been not been made uncomfortable because I'm woman.
:21:06. > :21:10.There are a growing number of women in UKIP. You said the that party is
:21:11. > :21:15.finding it hard to connect with women and I don't find that. It is
:21:16. > :21:19.my role to stand up for women and show women what UKIP can offer them
:21:20. > :21:25.and UKIP offers women the same thing as it offers men. It offers policies
:21:26. > :21:31.which resonate. What we care about is how much tax we pay? How safe we
:21:32. > :21:36.are on the streets when we walk home? How many laws we can create in
:21:37. > :21:41.our own country and not having laws and rights taken away by a European
:21:42. > :21:45.stupor state -- superstate. These are things I'm interested in and all
:21:46. > :21:53.things that women are interested. What's your policy on child benefit?
:21:54. > :21:58.As you know, our manifesto is being re-jigged as we speak. Child benefit
:21:59. > :22:01.is a tricky one. We don't want to make a big statement and then find
:22:02. > :22:04.we couldn't afford it. There was criticism after the 2010 manifesto
:22:05. > :22:08.was launched that we couldn't afford the manifesto promises we made. So
:22:09. > :22:13.at the moment we are having them all independently costed by an economic
:22:14. > :22:18.think-tank and... So you haven't got a policy on child benefit? I am sure
:22:19. > :22:22.we will have policy. What would you like it to say? We haven't got a
:22:23. > :22:28.policy we are ready to announce. What would you like? As a woman, and
:22:29. > :22:32.as a mother, I think child benefit is very important and I'm sure...
:22:33. > :22:36.That bit we got. But what's your policy? As I said, Andrew, we have
:22:37. > :22:42.not yet, I haven't got authority at the moment to tell you what our
:22:43. > :22:46.policy might be. It is being costed Ah, Mr Farage hasn't given you that
:22:47. > :22:54.so it is the men holding the authority in your party, is if? --
:22:55. > :22:57.is it? No, I was part of developing the Labour manifesto as woman and
:22:58. > :23:03.there was a few women involved in that. Do you agree that women
:23:04. > :23:08.employees are worth less than men? No. I don't. Neither does Nigel
:23:09. > :23:13.Farage. Well, he doesn't agree with himself? No, he was talking about a
:23:14. > :23:16.specific incident within his own particular realm of experience at a
:23:17. > :23:21.particular point in time in the City some years. I think his quotes were
:23:22. > :23:27.taken out of context. Nobody thinks a woman is worth less than a man. I
:23:28. > :23:32.don't and I don't think you do, Andrew. Can we move on from that
:23:33. > :23:40.because it is irrelevant to our campaign going forward? When will we
:23:41. > :23:45.get the UKIP manifesto for the European elections in May? Well, I
:23:46. > :23:49.think the European election manifesto is clear really. I think
:23:50. > :23:59.there is only one top polls I why, we want out -- policy, we want out
:24:00. > :24:03.of the EU. So all you need is a one line manifesto? No, that's what
:24:04. > :24:07.people are going to vote on, isn't it for the European elections? I
:24:08. > :24:10.would encourage people to do that because the European elections are
:24:11. > :24:13.going to send a strong message to David Cameron, but perhaps that we
:24:14. > :24:16.should have that referendum sooner. They are going to send a strong
:24:17. > :24:21.message to Ed Miliband that maybe he needs to commit to having an EU
:24:22. > :24:27.referendum. I would like to see both of them do that pretty soon and
:24:28. > :24:33.ahead of the 2014 general election. What point would you like to make? I
:24:34. > :24:38.would like to see more of her. Wow, this is a very impressive
:24:39. > :24:44.spokeswoman for UKIP. How refreshing to see them put up a woman? What do
:24:45. > :24:49.you say to that? That's very kind, indeed. Thank you. Are you in danger
:24:50. > :24:54.of mis-managing expectations? Your people are going around saying you
:24:55. > :24:59.expect to come first in the European elections. If you don't, that will
:25:00. > :25:03.seem like a failure? It is a Westminster process thing, but don't
:25:04. > :25:07.you need to get more sophisticated about this? Andrew, I'm amused by
:25:08. > :25:12.the spin that's being put on this. A few weeks ago, we were a fringe part
:25:13. > :25:16.We were somebody not to be taken seriously. We were a protest vote.
:25:17. > :25:22.Now suddenly, if we come only second in the European election we have
:25:23. > :25:26.failed. Come on, you are an experienced journalist, you must be
:25:27. > :25:30.able to see the irony in that? If Nigel Farage fails to do well in the
:25:31. > :25:35.European elections is his position under threat?
:25:36. > :25:38.No, I don't think so. I think if we come second it will be a close
:25:39. > :25:43.second. It is not about the number of MEPs, we get it is about what
:25:44. > :25:46.vote share we get. Everyone here is behind Nigel Farage. He is a
:25:47. > :25:51.fantastic leader. I'm very, very proud to be on his frontbench team
:25:52. > :25:55.and yeah, I think we will do very well in the euro elections. Do you
:25:56. > :25:59.think you will come first? If we come first, that will be fantastic,
:26:00. > :26:02.if we don't, UKIP is on the rise. UKIP is going forwardment we are a
:26:03. > :26:07.major player in British politics. The tide has turned. There is an
:26:08. > :26:10.earthquake and we are here to stay. All right, well you watch that tide
:26:11. > :26:14.behind you there. It is looking threatening there.
:26:15. > :26:19.I was just thinking about that! It is getting darker as we speak. Thank
:26:20. > :26:23.you for joining us. Now the crisis in Ukraine appears to
:26:24. > :26:26.be worsening by the day with Russian troops said to have moved into the
:26:27. > :26:28.Crimea region. One Ukrainian Government Minister has accused
:26:29. > :26:32.Russia of armed invasion. Here's what David Cameron had to say
:26:33. > :26:37.yesterday. Every country should respect the territorial integrity
:26:38. > :26:40.and sovereignty of the Ukraine. Russia made th commitment and it is
:26:41. > :26:45.important that Russia keeps its word. The world will be watching.
:26:46. > :26:50.This is not a zero sum game. If the people of Ukraine want greater ties
:26:51. > :26:53.with Europe, then, of course, we welcome that. But it is not about
:26:54. > :26:56.forcing the Ukrainian people to choose between Russia and Europe. It
:26:57. > :27:14.is in all our interests to have a stable and prosperous Ukraine.
:27:15. > :27:17.We're joineed by Orysia Lutsevych from the international affairs
:27:18. > :27:20.think-tank, Chatham House. What do you believe is the Kremlin's aim
:27:21. > :27:25.here? What will the Kremlin do? I think the master plan is to
:27:26. > :27:30.destabilise Ukraine furthermore. It is to prevent Kiev to consolidate
:27:31. > :27:35.power over the territory of Ukraine and it is to distract attention for
:27:36. > :27:38.dealing with painful economic reforms and consolidating the aid
:27:39. > :27:43.package that should come from the West. Now, we learned yesterday, on
:27:44. > :27:47.Wednesday, Mr Putin saying that he was checking the battle readiness of
:27:48. > :27:52.the troops. Then we were told that fighter jets were on combat
:27:53. > :27:59.readiness. This morning we hear of helicopters in Crimea, of airports
:28:00. > :28:05.being taken over by armed men. Is this sabre-rattling or could it be
:28:06. > :28:10.the prelude to a military intervention? It is a very dangerous
:28:11. > :28:16.situation, I think. A lot of conflict could start by chance, by
:28:17. > :28:22.provocation, the spark could happen in the evidence of having so many
:28:23. > :28:27.troops gathered around and including in Crimea some of the Russian groups
:28:28. > :28:35.could be armed. So in a way, I think the strategy would be to start to
:28:36. > :28:39.present Crimean unrest as a home-grown protest. Russia is not
:28:40. > :28:44.confirming that its troops are taking over the Parliament, but we
:28:45. > :28:52.know that where would they appear overnight? It is an old soviet trick
:28:53. > :28:58.to create a set of events that then justify a military intervention? It
:28:59. > :29:05.is not only soviet. Putin was trying this trick recently Georgia where he
:29:06. > :29:10.was going to protect compatriots and defend the Russia delegation abroad.
:29:11. > :29:16.Should we not regard Mr Putin as having a lot in common with the old
:29:17. > :29:22.sof jets? -- soviets? I think he is a reincarnation of that system. The
:29:23. > :29:24.system in the Ukraine is complicated. There are, there is
:29:25. > :29:28.huge differences between the largely pro-Russian east and the more
:29:29. > :29:36.European facing west and the Crimea is a whole game on its own that used
:29:37. > :29:42.to belong to Russia, there are major Russian ports in Crimea and it only
:29:43. > :29:51.became part of Crimea in 1954. So there is plenty of problems to stir
:29:52. > :30:06.up there, isn't there? We should not forget that there are Crimea n
:30:07. > :30:11.tartares, they came back during the independent time to reclaim the land
:30:12. > :30:16.and we have 15 to 20 population. We don't have a recent population poll
:30:17. > :30:21.to really know how many there are, but this is not just between Ukraine
:30:22. > :30:25.and Russia, there is a population that is pro-Ukrainian in terms of
:30:26. > :30:34.keeping the integration with the mainland of Ukraine.
:30:35. > :30:38.Ukraine is bust, isn't it? The risks are growing every day and that is
:30:39. > :30:44.why I think the West should not wait, like it was waiting to see the
:30:45. > :30:49.situation in Ukraine. They should be on the ground, monitoring it. They
:30:50. > :31:00.should be there to take hold of the situation and ask questions. When
:31:01. > :31:07.Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons, the USA and the UK guaranteed
:31:08. > :31:13.sovereignty to Ukraine. They should be asking why they are in the
:31:14. > :31:18.Crimea. I have just come back from the USA and does not seem to be a
:31:19. > :31:22.lot of interest there. Under EU rules, we are not allowed to give
:31:23. > :31:29.funding to a country unless it has the proper democratic credentials.
:31:30. > :31:34.Clearly, yesterday, we saw the new government voted into Parliament by
:31:35. > :31:39.the majority. This government is in talks with the USA and IMF.
:31:40. > :31:46.Yesterday, it was said that the USA will guarantee part of the loan that
:31:47. > :31:51.the IMF would give. The strategy of Russia is to show that this
:31:52. > :32:02.government cannot make orders in its own House. What should the EU do?
:32:03. > :32:13.There are few things. It should enforce what it is already doing. It
:32:14. > :32:18.should understand that the Ukrainian situation is a European vacuity
:32:19. > :32:27.issue. It is very close to home and a major piece of the border, so they
:32:28. > :32:33.should be together with the USA and discussing the situation. --
:32:34. > :32:40.European security issue. But they only have soft power, Moscow has the
:32:41. > :32:50.hard power. There are military ships in the Black C. They are not going
:32:51. > :32:57.to get involved -- Black said. We have seen people dying for this soft
:32:58. > :33:02.power, waving flags. The worry is that they are standing for something
:33:03. > :33:05.that will let them down. They also understand, throughout the crisis,
:33:06. > :33:14.that they have to rely on themselves. This is a big mental
:33:15. > :33:20.shift. It is a big country, 46 million people. It is not a small
:33:21. > :33:27.European country. I think this is an important lesson that they are
:33:28. > :33:37.acting upon, and taking stock, that is the first lesson. The fact is, we
:33:38. > :33:42.are irrelevant. We are not even the players. You said you were in
:33:43. > :33:47.America and was not much there. I struggled to find interest at
:33:48. > :33:52.Westminster. It was not even brought up at Rye Minister 's questions. It
:33:53. > :33:59.is complicated, there are so many factions involved. -- Prime
:34:00. > :34:02.Minister's Questions. I spoke to some MPs and they said they are
:34:03. > :34:12.absent, we are not really part of this. What are the chances of
:34:13. > :34:27.Ukraine being partitioned? It depends on Vladimir Putin's plan. I
:34:28. > :34:33.think the risks are high. The Ukrainian authorities should work to
:34:34. > :34:41.find a way to localise the movement of troops and trying to negotiate
:34:42. > :34:46.and see who the people are. Exactly. They are saying that they
:34:47. > :34:50.are not entitled to negotiate. Events are unfolding as we speak.
:34:51. > :34:53.Thank you for joining us. Time to get the answer to our quiz. The
:34:54. > :34:58.question was... Which one of these is the odd one out? A) Angela Merkel
:34:59. > :35:03.b) Michelle Obama c) Larry the cat or d) Nigel Farage. So, Isabel,
:35:04. > :35:12.what's the correct answer? Soft furnishings? The answer is Nigel
:35:13. > :35:19.Farage. It is, he is the only one not to have sat on the sofa. Coming
:35:20. > :35:23.up in a moment it's our regular look at what's been going on in European
:35:24. > :35:27.politics. But for now it's time to say goodbye to my guest of the day,
:35:28. > :35:30.Isabel Oakeshott. So for the next half an hour we're going to be
:35:31. > :35:32.focussing on Europe. We'll be discussing, Switzerland,
:35:33. > :35:36.immigration, Angela Merkel and we'll also be taking a look at the runners
:35:37. > :35:39.and riders for one of Europe's top jobs. First though here's our 60
:35:40. > :35:47.second guide to what's been happening in Europe this week. Blink
:35:48. > :35:51.and you may miss it. The Nordic model of prostitution has been
:35:52. > :35:56.attacked by MPs who voted to legalise the selling of sex and
:35:57. > :35:59.criminalise those who are buying it. Smaller German parties including the
:36:00. > :36:05.far right are more likely to gain European Parliament seats after the
:36:06. > :36:09.top court scrapped a rule requiring parties to win at least 3% of the
:36:10. > :36:13.top boat. Tough new smoking rules have been voted through by the
:36:14. > :36:18.European Parliament, including mandatory health warnings covering
:36:19. > :36:22.two thirds of cigarette packs. All new cars will have to be fitted with
:36:23. > :36:27.a life-saving device from 25th team. It automatically dials the emergency
:36:28. > :36:34.services in the event of a crash. MEPs say it will cut response times
:36:35. > :36:39.and save lives. In a high profile visit to London, German Chancellor
:36:40. > :36:45.Angela Merkel said she would work with Britain to reform Europe. She
:36:46. > :36:59.wants to remain a strong boys inside the EU. -- a strong boys. Voice. And
:37:00. > :37:03.with us for the next 30 minutes I've been joined by The Conservative MEP,
:37:04. > :37:05.Timothy Kirkhope and the UKIP MEP, Gerard Batten. Now to Angela Merkel.
:37:06. > :37:11.What did the visit achieve? Auntie Angela Kane to visit young David. He
:37:12. > :37:19.cannot have his train set, he needs a dinky toy. She said there would be
:37:20. > :37:23.no fundamental reform. It was a meeting of the two most important
:37:24. > :37:29.politicians in Europe. Working together, they can get reforms in
:37:30. > :37:35.Europe. She made it clear that she was not up to the fundamental
:37:36. > :37:39.reforms that David may need. She made it clear that if there was a
:37:40. > :37:45.treaty change, it could not be within Mr Cameron's timetable. She
:37:46. > :37:52.did not close any doors, she opened a lot. She was being pragmatic, and
:37:53. > :37:56.so was the Prime Minister. This is a marvellous combination and it is
:37:57. > :38:02.important we work hard at this. There will be no fundamental
:38:03. > :38:06.renegotiation. This project is about creating a United States of Europe.
:38:07. > :38:10.You are in or you are out. The arguments today are the same as 40
:38:11. > :38:15.years ago. If we could have a referendum now, if Mr Cameron went
:38:16. > :38:22.to Parliament and asked for a referendum, that would make him
:38:23. > :38:27.strong for an election. The situation is quite clear. We need
:38:28. > :38:43.reform, we need change, she needs change in Europe, they are very much
:38:44. > :38:47.of the same mind, I think. Hold on, a fundamental reform of the European
:38:48. > :38:55.architecture is what David Cameron once but she says you are in for a
:38:56. > :39:00.disappointment. The negotiations are going on and will continue to go on
:39:01. > :39:05.and we have a fair prospect of success, despite the misery guts
:39:06. > :39:12.approach of this man and his friends. If you are going for a
:39:13. > :39:18.major treaty change, not just repatriating powers from Brussels to
:39:19. > :39:22.Britain, but treaty changes that affect the whole of the continent,
:39:23. > :39:29.they take ages to do, they have to be ratified by every Parliament, and
:39:30. > :39:35.by a referendum, and I would suggest to you that France Warhol and needs
:39:36. > :39:40.a referendum like a hole in the head! E-mail have certain limits on
:39:41. > :39:49.the number of Daisy is going to remain in power. Is in power until
:39:50. > :39:58.2017. The number of days he is going to remain in power. UKIP are never
:39:59. > :40:03.going to be in power and are never going to give the people of this
:40:04. > :40:08.country a referendum. We will and we will give them a referendum as well.
:40:09. > :40:14.Every month we go to straddle the, we get lots of legislation and the
:40:15. > :40:20.Tories and Lib Dems vote for it. I do not know what it is that they
:40:21. > :40:29.want to reform. -- every month we go to Strasbourg. The reason that they
:40:30. > :40:34.will go to Brussels and shown at this rubbish out is because they are
:40:35. > :40:43.being paid an extra ?256 a day to do it. Okay... What percentage of votes
:40:44. > :40:56.in the Parliament do you think you have been out? Me? About 80%. Do you
:40:57. > :41:05.not think it is demeaning that we are cosying up in a sycophantic way
:41:06. > :41:08.to Angela Merkel? Germany is a great success story and she is a great
:41:09. > :41:16.leader but do we have two demean ourselves? Are we doing that? We
:41:17. > :41:21.have two great leaders. We seem desperate to suck up to the Germans.
:41:22. > :41:31.Not at all. We take the Germans seriously. That is different to
:41:32. > :41:38.sucking up. Nigel said, you cannot have change, you need barn. We stand
:41:39. > :41:46.for own country and we want to run our own affairs. If we cannot
:41:47. > :41:57.control immigration... We had a headline in the Son in German! That
:41:58. > :42:03.of the first time. -- The sun. Do you think the Queen and Angela
:42:04. > :42:07.Merkel spoke in German? I would not be surprised. I am sure the Queen
:42:08. > :42:20.would have spoken in German out of courtesy. I think BT would be
:42:21. > :42:33.English! The tea. Certainly English. ! Now figures released yesterday
:42:34. > :42:37.show that there was an increase in net immigration of almost a third,
:42:38. > :42:40.to 212,000, in the 12 months to last September. There was a big rise in
:42:41. > :42:44.the number of people arriving from European Union countries, but a drop
:42:45. > :42:47.in the number from outside Europe. Vince Cable, says it is "absolutely"
:42:48. > :42:55.committed to reducing net migration to tens of thousands by 2015. He was
:42:56. > :43:04.almost rubbing David Cameron's nose in it! Yvette Cooper said the
:43:05. > :43:09.immigration target is in tatters. She is right. No, she is not right
:43:10. > :43:13.at all. This is one set of figures and I was Immigration Minister in
:43:14. > :43:21.the 1990s. This is one set of figures. Looking at the overall
:43:22. > :43:24.position, from the start of the government, we have reduced
:43:25. > :43:29.migration, but more importantly, the nature of migration has changed. It
:43:30. > :43:38.has changed from largely nonproductive to productive
:43:39. > :43:44.migration. Who was nonproductive? 70% of the entrance were coming for
:43:45. > :43:52.education purposes. There were bogus universities or colleges. 30% were
:43:53. > :43:56.coming into normal, productive work. It has completely reversed in the
:43:57. > :44:02.last year. Hold on. Your party promised to get immigration down to
:44:03. > :44:11.the tens of thousands die next year. It has now gone up. It has gone up
:44:12. > :44:18.to 212,000. -- by next year. We are going in the right direction. How,
:44:19. > :44:26.when you have just added 60,000 to the figures? Over the term, we are
:44:27. > :44:32.reducing net migration. We had a set of figures from September last year
:44:33. > :44:37.and the situation, even after September, has changed dramatically
:44:38. > :44:44.as a result of the government clamping down on benefit abuse.
:44:45. > :44:50.Indeed, these figures do not include any Romanians or Bulgarians who have
:44:51. > :44:55.come since the law was relaxed. Indeed, and UKIP made it clear that
:44:56. > :45:05.from January, 27 million plus will be arriving. We employ people on the
:45:06. > :45:09.basis of their commitment to work and their contribution to the
:45:10. > :45:15.economy. It is true. Do you understand... Do you understand why
:45:16. > :45:20.people despair of politicians when your party promises to get
:45:21. > :45:25.immigration down to the tens of thousands and it actually goes up to
:45:26. > :45:31.212,000? You come onto this programme and say it is going in the
:45:32. > :45:42.right direction! Yes, it is going in the write direction. What are you
:45:43. > :45:47.on? Clearly... It was water, wasn't it? It has given me a good laugh if
:45:48. > :45:52.nothing else, Andrew. They can't do it because they are
:45:53. > :45:55.against immigration. Isn't this something Britain should be proud
:45:56. > :46:01.of? That our economy is doing so well that Young Italians, Young
:46:02. > :46:06.French, French Germans, Young Spaniards, Young Poles are coming to
:46:07. > :46:10.this country because there are jobs. Because they are welcome here and
:46:11. > :46:15.they will be a huge asset to our economy? Let's come back to the
:46:16. > :46:21.numbers in a minute. We have got a net 212, 500,000 people coming here.
:46:22. > :46:26.This is the figure between 180 odd and 230 has been going on since
:46:27. > :46:29.Labour were in power. We are adding an extra one million people to the
:46:30. > :46:34.population every four to six years which is a city the size of
:46:35. > :46:37.Birmingham. It is unsustainable. The current Government can't control
:46:38. > :46:41.immigration while it is a member of the European Union. It is as simple
:46:42. > :46:45.as that. They are powerless... What's the answer to your question?
:46:46. > :46:48.UKIP would have a policy of controlled immigration where we
:46:49. > :46:53.allowed people on a work permit basis where they did have the skills
:46:54. > :46:59.that we want to fill vacancies in the job market, real vacancies. We
:47:00. > :47:03.are not just bringing in highly skilled people. We have 1.5 million
:47:04. > :47:06.unemployed, something like a the people you talk about are not all
:47:07. > :47:09.skilled people coming in to work. What a lot of these are doing, they
:47:10. > :47:14.are coming in and driving wages down. Let me finish, please. Driving
:47:15. > :47:18.wages down at the bottom end of the economic scale when they do work and
:47:19. > :47:21.we have got people who come in and don't work. I have had people living
:47:22. > :47:27.in rough in the bushes outside my house during the summer. I went over
:47:28. > :47:33.to spoke to them. We a couple of Poles who I spoke to, we a Russian,
:47:34. > :47:36.it is all out of control. No, it is not out of control and the companies
:47:37. > :47:42.and businesses that are developing and world leaders who like
:47:43. > :47:45.intercorporate transfers as part of the migration figures now, moving
:47:46. > :47:49.important staff around would not agree with you and at the end of the
:47:50. > :47:54.day, don't talk about denying people in this country work nine out of ten
:47:55. > :47:58.of the new jobs that have been created are British citizens. OK. So
:47:59. > :48:03.you get that in prospective, please. Instead of this being a good news
:48:04. > :48:08.story as Vince Cable made clear, it can be presented as because your
:48:09. > :48:12.party takes a hard-line in immigration, you can't present it
:48:13. > :48:16.like that. You can't say this shows the success of the British economy,
:48:17. > :48:21.because it flies in the face of what your policies is meant to be? Our
:48:22. > :48:24.policy is to have the right kind of immigration where the people who
:48:25. > :48:27.come here provide economic benefit to the country and help us develop.
:48:28. > :48:31.That's a sensible approach and the abusers which have gone on under the
:48:32. > :48:36.Labour Government previously are being denied now. So that's very,
:48:37. > :48:44.very important. I am afraid we have run out of time. Endless waves of
:48:45. > :48:47.cheap labour. In Switzerland they like to have referendum about
:48:48. > :48:49.immigration. They have just had one and they are not that keen. Here is
:48:50. > :48:58.Adam with his latest A to Z. Forgive the cliche, but
:48:59. > :49:08.Switzerland's's relationship with Brussels is like a cuckoo clock. In
:49:09. > :49:13.and out. You can travel to France or Germany without one of these. They
:49:14. > :49:19.can export these because they are a part of the single market, but
:49:20. > :49:23.Switzerland isn't in the euro, but these are accepted. The country
:49:24. > :49:28.voted to stay out of the EU in the early 2000s, now Swiss lsh EU
:49:29. > :49:31.relations are governed by 100 agreements, one of which commits
:49:32. > :49:37.Switzerland to send millions of euros in aid payments to EU members
:49:38. > :49:45.in Eastern Europe. In this posh restaurant, political scientist
:49:46. > :49:50.explains what this stand-offish says about the Swiss psyche. The local
:49:51. > :49:55.authorities are very important. Accountants are very important. It
:49:56. > :50:02.is built from the bottom up. We feel and I think it is real, that Europe
:50:03. > :50:07.is a construction of elites and up side down from Brussels. So it is
:50:08. > :50:11.against our, the whole culture of our country.
:50:12. > :50:16.That uneasiness was exposed in the referendum. Swiss voters chose very
:50:17. > :50:21.narrowly to impose quotas on how many people can come into the
:50:22. > :50:25.country from the EU. Although they will have to wait for legislation to
:50:26. > :50:29.fill in the details. When I met Brussels ambassador to Switzerland
:50:30. > :50:34.at the end of last year, his number one priority was selling the
:50:35. > :50:38.benefits of the EU. We think that the agreement that we've had with
:50:39. > :50:44.Switzerland now for well over ten years has been of great benefit to
:50:45. > :50:48.them and to us. And Switzerland is a country that's done very well in the
:50:49. > :50:51.economic downturn and one of the reasons is because it has been able
:50:52. > :50:56.to fill jobs, it has been able to do that because it can call on labour
:50:57. > :51:01.and workers from the European Union. He is being less diplomatic now.
:51:02. > :51:05.Negotiations about education and science have been called off and
:51:06. > :51:10.there is a warning of further consequences. But Euro-sceptics say
:51:11. > :51:20.the referendum ranks along with the scenery and chocolates as one of the
:51:21. > :51:27.Switzerland's attractions. You would be welcome to join us in a Free
:51:28. > :51:33.Trade Agreement. Many would suggest the idea of a more detached
:51:34. > :51:39.Swiss-style arrangement is well, totally cuckoo.
:51:40. > :51:45.Would UKIP like to see Britain have the same arrangement with the
:51:46. > :51:49.European Union as Switzerland? No. Because it is almost just as bad.
:51:50. > :51:53.Switzerland had a referendum in 92 not to join the European Union, but
:51:54. > :52:04.they decided not to join the European Economic Area. They have
:52:05. > :52:08.got this 100 bilateral arrangements. We would be more distant from the EU
:52:09. > :52:13.than Switzerland? My view and I think the party as a whole view, is
:52:14. > :52:17.we leave the European Union. They sell us far more than we sell them.
:52:18. > :52:20.They have trading arrangements where Mexico, Israel and countries around
:52:21. > :52:23.the world. We could have a trading arrangement with them. We could
:52:24. > :52:27.control our borders and control what legislation we want in our country
:52:28. > :52:32.or don't want... I am not clear what our relationship would be with the
:52:33. > :52:37.European Union though? Is the Switzerland model of any interest to
:52:38. > :52:45.you? No. You can have a country like Switzerland which is having to abide
:52:46. > :52:50.by hundreds of, but hasn't any say at the top table. It might be OK for
:52:51. > :52:53.Switzerland, but it is not OK for Britain. The trouble with UKIP is
:52:54. > :53:01.you don't think, you don't think big. You don't think about our
:53:02. > :53:06.country and you are a part of this... You are part of this
:53:07. > :53:13.ideological thrust. You both don't want the Swiss model. The Swiss did
:53:14. > :53:24.a report in 2006 and they worked out that it would cost six times as
:53:25. > :53:29.much. The last figure I saw was 78%. In
:53:30. > :53:34.the European Parliament it is not legislative. A lot of it is own
:53:35. > :53:41.initiative reports which are hot air. There is under three months to
:53:42. > :53:45.go until the European elections, oh, yes they are excited in here.
:53:46. > :53:47.Despite your enthusiasm, I can feel it coming through the camera,
:53:48. > :53:51.turnout in the election is expected to be low indeed. Turnout across the
:53:52. > :53:58.EU has been down in every it European election since they first
:53:59. > :54:03.began way back in 1979. This year, the powers that be have come up with
:54:04. > :54:13.a plan to give you, the voter, more of is a say and who gets the top
:54:14. > :54:16.jobs. Chris Morris explains all. The European Parliament is on a
:54:17. > :54:23.mission to persuade you, the voter that, it matters. And so does your
:54:24. > :54:26.vote. Economic crisis has made the European electorate wearier than
:54:27. > :54:29.ever, but the get out of the vote campaign is trying to send a
:54:30. > :54:37.message. This election will be differentle. -- will be different.
:54:38. > :54:43.The European Parliament. Act. React. Impact. So the main political groups
:54:44. > :54:46.here in Strasbourg have come up with a cunning plan. Call it three men in
:54:47. > :54:51.a vote. They are putting forward their preferred candidates to be the
:54:52. > :54:55.next president of the European Commission. There is the socialist
:54:56. > :55:02.candidate the President of this Parliament. There is the MEP and
:55:03. > :55:05.former Prime Minister of Belgium, the liberal candidate and the
:55:06. > :55:09.probable candidate on the centre-right, another former Prime
:55:10. > :55:14.Minister from Luxembourg. The idea is to per swayed voters that they
:55:15. > :55:21.can have a role in picking the next leaders of remote institutions.
:55:22. > :55:25.The man leading the socialist group of MEPs is determined that the focus
:55:26. > :55:31.on Parliament's enhanced role will not be lost. We should get rid of
:55:32. > :55:35.the lack of democracy in the European Union. That the Prime
:55:36. > :55:42.Ministers decide who should run because they will always choose the
:55:43. > :55:48.weakest one. More Euro-sceptic groups in Strasbourg aren't putting
:55:49. > :55:54.forward any commission candidates. Many of them smell a federalist
:55:55. > :56:02.plot. They are trying to turn the whole of this legislature into a
:56:03. > :56:06.Shadow Government able to nominate someone acting as a Prime Minister
:56:07. > :56:10.of Europe. We think it is a nonsense. An election of three
:56:11. > :56:14.people who say the sa thing. These guys maybe well-known in this
:56:15. > :56:19.building, but the idea of anyone having broad popular appeal in 28
:56:20. > :56:25.member states right across Europe, that's a tough ask.
:56:26. > :56:30.If any national leaders decide to flex their muscles which they
:56:31. > :56:36.probably will, then the chances of any of these guys getting the top
:56:37. > :56:42.job will disappear rapidly. Because everyone knows who Europe's big guns
:56:43. > :56:46.really are. National leaders still rule the roost and there are plenty
:56:47. > :56:51.of conversations going on already about the top EU jobs. The vision of
:56:52. > :56:56.Euro-enthusiasts is to make the whole process of choosing the
:56:57. > :57:00.commission president more open, more democratic, but it is complex and
:57:01. > :57:02.rather than less haggling behind closed doors, there could end up
:57:03. > :57:09.being rather more. These three candidates. They are all
:57:10. > :57:13.hard-line European federalists. Where is the choice? I don't think
:57:14. > :57:19.there is much choice and I don't think the European Parliament should
:57:20. > :57:23.get involved. I agree with Martin. You are not bothered? It is about
:57:24. > :57:34.the United States of Europe, they are in favour. Some are so awful and
:57:35. > :57:41.they will bring a lot of votes to us. At least they do turn up
:57:42. > :57:45.occasionally. Either of you are really involved in this process,
:57:46. > :57:49.because you have left the main centre-right group and you don't
:57:50. > :57:52.care? I don't think it is a European Parliament function. It is a matter
:57:53. > :57:56.for the European leaders to decide these matters. Will one of these
:57:57. > :58:01.become the next president? I hope not. If you are building a single
:58:02. > :58:06.unified political state which is what they are... The Parliament
:58:07. > :58:13.should have a say. Somebody should elect the president, not appoint
:58:14. > :58:17.them. The Parliament is taking upon itself these powers and it ought to
:58:18. > :58:26.be told clearly that it is not a function. Who is going to be the
:58:27. > :58:30.next president? I am going for Shortz. Who would you like to see?
:58:31. > :58:33.It is a matter for the leadership in our country. They will have to make
:58:34. > :58:37.a decision. There could be good candidates. It is an important job,
:58:38. > :58:40.of course, it is, but those candidates there, I don't think many
:58:41. > :58:45.of the public are aware who they are, what they are, or really care.
:58:46. > :58:48.All right. We will have to leave it there will. Thank you very much.
:58:49. > :58:52.That's it for today. Thanks to my guests, Timothy Kirkhope and Gerard
:58:53. > :58:59.Batten, both MEPs. Bye-bye.