26/03/2014

:00:35. > :00:40.Morning, folks, and welcome to The Daily Politics. The Government set a

:00:41. > :00:43.welfare cap trap for Ed Miliband - Labour will back it, but can they

:00:44. > :00:48.get back on the front foot after last week's budget?

:00:49. > :00:54.Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage square up to each other for the first of

:00:55. > :01:01.two debates on Europe - who'll come out on top? Born clever, born

:01:02. > :01:06.stupid? Should our genetic make-up play any part in education policy?

:01:07. > :01:13.Mmm - looks good, doesn't it? But it's bad for you. Right? Is the

:01:14. > :01:18.Government giving us "unbelievably stupid" healthy eating advice?

:01:19. > :01:25.All that coming up, plus Prime Minister's Questions at noon. And

:01:26. > :01:28.with us for the duration, two of Westminster's big cheeses - the

:01:29. > :01:29.tangy yet mellow blue Anna Soubry and the smooth but sharp red Emma

:01:30. > :01:41.Reynolds. Welcome to the programme. First this morning, hundreds of

:01:42. > :01:44.schools across England and Wales are closed today because of a one day

:01:45. > :01:46.strike by members of the National Union of Teachers. They're

:01:47. > :01:49.protesting against the UK government's changes to pay and

:01:50. > :01:52.conditions including a new performance-related pay structure

:01:53. > :02:01.and tougher pension package. We're joined now by the general secretary

:02:02. > :02:04.of the NUT, Christine Blower. Welcome to the programme. Seven

:02:05. > :02:09.unions are involved in talks with the Government, why is the NUT the

:02:10. > :02:12.only one going on strike? Well, we are one of only three of the unions

:02:13. > :02:16.which has a dispute, so the others would not be in a position to go on

:02:17. > :02:20.strike because they are not involved in a dispute with the Government. We

:02:21. > :02:26.are, and we have been for two years or so. We are involved in talks, but

:02:27. > :02:30.we feel that insufficient progress has been made. We were offered these

:02:31. > :02:33.talks way before Christmas. We stood down the action that we were there

:02:34. > :02:37.to take in November and February as well. But although the talks have

:02:38. > :02:41.started, we are not seeing the progress that we need to see. Which

:02:42. > :02:45.is why we are taking action today. Hugely disruptive of course. The

:02:46. > :02:48.Department for Education says it will hold back the education of

:02:49. > :02:55.children, and rummage the reputation of the profession. What is your

:02:56. > :02:59.response? I think what is damaging to the profession is the fact that

:03:00. > :03:05.Michael Wilshaw, the head of Ofsted, says that two out of five teachers

:03:06. > :03:10.coming into depression -- coming into the profession, leave by the

:03:11. > :03:13.end of their 50 year. We cannot manage with a profession where that

:03:14. > :03:18.many people are leaving. -- of their fifth year. They are leaving because

:03:19. > :03:23.primary classroom teachers are having to work 60 hours a week. And

:03:24. > :03:27.this is not work which contributes positively to their teaching. And

:03:28. > :03:31.also we do not think that classroom teachers can work until they are 68.

:03:32. > :03:37.These are contributory reasons for why we are on strike today. I think,

:03:38. > :03:42.I know, from some of the figures that I have read, that we have the

:03:43. > :03:49.support of many, although I accept not all, of parents. But we feel

:03:50. > :03:55.that this was a time when we had to take this action. You say you have

:03:56. > :03:57.the support of parents, a poll by populous last year found 70% either

:03:58. > :04:02.opposed the strikes or found teachers should not be allowed to

:04:03. > :04:06.strike at all. That is not an overwhelming endorsement? I have to

:04:07. > :04:09.tell you, if you pick out one poll, you may get that view, but if you

:04:10. > :04:15.have been speaking to people recently, you will see that that is

:04:16. > :04:18.not generally the margin at all. One thing we have been doing, which is

:04:19. > :04:22.nothing at all to do with strike action, is that for the past six

:04:23. > :04:27.weeks we have been on the streets on Saturday mornings, talking to

:04:28. > :04:30.parents and the general public about not the issues which are in the

:04:31. > :04:34.trade dispute but other issues, which we think are very serious

:04:35. > :04:41.problems, in terms of education policy. Like, for example, the --

:04:42. > :04:45.the fact that teachers will no longer have to be qualified, fact

:04:46. > :04:48.that schools are opening in places where we do not need them, like free

:04:49. > :04:53.schools, but local authorities are not in a position to open schools

:04:54. > :04:58.where there is a schools prices crisis. So we have a coincidence of

:04:59. > :05:03.interests with the general public and parents across a lot of these

:05:04. > :05:06.policy areas. Before we move on, in terms of support, the Department for

:05:07. > :05:11.Education says well under a quarter of schools are closed, compared to

:05:12. > :05:14.60% in the last strikes. It is the lowest level of support for a

:05:15. > :05:20.national strike since 2010. There are reports, as you will know, from

:05:21. > :05:25.the NASUWT, one of the other big unions, which have accused your

:05:26. > :05:28.union of threats, insults and attempts to intimidate teachers to

:05:29. > :05:33.join the action - is there any truth to that? You would have to deal with

:05:34. > :05:37.them about that matter. I am not going to comment on it. If there had

:05:38. > :05:39.been problems with any of my members, I would have expected them

:05:40. > :05:45.to have been brought to my attention, and they have not. So, I

:05:46. > :05:48.really cannot comment. Of course we expect members of trade unions to

:05:49. > :05:54.behave in a proper fashion towards each other. Will you try and get to

:05:55. > :05:58.the bottom of this? It is a leaked internal e-mail from the NASUWT. So

:05:59. > :06:02.I presume there is some evidence there? If she wants to get in touch

:06:03. > :06:04.with me, that is fine, and we will deal with it. But it has not been

:06:05. > :06:13.brought to my attention. What is the attitude of Labour

:06:14. > :06:18.towards this college we think this strike is highly disruptive for

:06:19. > :06:21.parents, obviously, but more importantly for children, who are

:06:22. > :06:24.missing a day of school. We know that attendance is highly correlated

:06:25. > :06:31.with attainment. We need kids to do well at school. I think there has

:06:32. > :06:34.been a breakdown on both sides, with Michael Gove saying that teachers

:06:35. > :06:38.are the enemies of promise, that is not going to help in any

:06:39. > :06:41.negotiations. But also I do think that the trade unions need to come

:06:42. > :06:46.around the table and continue with these talks. So you would rather the

:06:47. > :06:52.NUT have not gone on strike today? I would rather they were still

:06:53. > :06:55.negotiating around the table. Could relations between the Education

:06:56. > :07:03.Secretary, Mr Gove, and the unions be any worse? I do not think they

:07:04. > :07:07.are in a bad state at all. Michael Gove's policies are exhausting and

:07:08. > :07:12.demoralising teachers, says the deputy general secretary of the NUT.

:07:13. > :07:16.Firstly, I am not sure if Labour is actually condemning this strike, and

:07:17. > :07:20.I think they ought to be clear. Secondly, the fact that the NUT is

:07:21. > :07:25.the only trade union representing teachers which is taking this action

:07:26. > :07:30.speaks words about the NUT. They are the last great dinosaur of the

:07:31. > :07:33.teaching professions. I used to be a shop steward for the NUJ, and I

:07:34. > :07:40.always made sure that I took my team with me, and represented my members.

:07:41. > :07:43.Taking strike action should be an absolute last resort. I do not know

:07:44. > :07:47.the figures, but I think I am right in saying that the majority of

:07:48. > :07:51.people did not take part in the vote, and of them, therefore, you

:07:52. > :07:56.get a fraction of the NUT actually supporting strike action. But that

:07:57. > :08:09.is the law as it stands. Absolutely, but it shows the validity of it,

:08:10. > :08:13.which is even more undermined. I have just told you our position, I

:08:14. > :08:17.was very clear about it. I do not want them to be on strike today, I

:08:18. > :08:20.want them to be around the table. But I also think the Government has

:08:21. > :08:24.done an awful job on this, and Michael Gove is playing political

:08:25. > :08:31.games. The kids and parents are paying the price. Why is he saying

:08:32. > :08:35.things like enemies of promise? It is the fact that the other unions

:08:36. > :08:40.are at the table, doing the right thing, which I think is telling. The

:08:41. > :08:44.NUT has gone on strike, ticketed schools which want to look at

:08:45. > :08:50.becoming academies. That is the reality of a union which is living

:08:51. > :08:55.back in the 1970s. Take the union's own diary, it now reveals government

:08:56. > :08:59.data, primary school teachers are working nearly a 60 hour week. A lot

:09:00. > :09:06.of our teachers are working very hard, it is a lot, and they find it

:09:07. > :09:10.a very rewarding job, but you have got to get the balance right. I go

:09:11. > :09:15.into my primary schools in my constituency, and I speak to heads

:09:16. > :09:26.and teachers... Do you think 60 hours is too much? I have not seen

:09:27. > :09:30.the analyst, -- the analysis, so I cannot comment. It is tough, but you

:09:31. > :09:34.have got to accept that our schools are doing a brilliant job, and we

:09:35. > :09:37.are seeing real progress as a result of the reforms we have made. We will

:09:38. > :09:41.have to leave it there. Now, it's a week since George

:09:42. > :09:44.Osborne unveiled this year's Budget. The next day's headlines, and the

:09:45. > :09:47.polls, suggested it was a good day for the Chancellor and a pretty

:09:48. > :09:49.awful one for Labour leader Ed Miliband. So what happened next?

:09:50. > :09:57.Here's Jo Co. Now, with a year to go before the

:09:58. > :10:02.general election George, Osborne has set out a full throttle Budget. The

:10:03. > :10:05.Chancellor gave pensioners the opportunity to spend their pension

:10:06. > :10:09.pots when they want and on whatever they choose - even on a fast car

:10:10. > :10:17.like a Lamborghini. Ed Miliband appeared to stutter and stall in his

:10:18. > :10:20.response to the Budget. But Labour have now indicated that they won't

:10:21. > :10:23.oppose the pension changes, and today the Labour leader will drive

:10:24. > :10:26.his MPs through the yes lobby to support the Government's welfare

:10:27. > :10:30.cap. But what do the public think? Well, Labour are still ahead, but

:10:31. > :10:34.their poll lead has been cut back - the Tories have their foot on the

:10:35. > :10:38.gas and are now as little as 1% behind. That's prompted a number of

:10:39. > :10:42.back seat critics to tell Mr Miliband to get a grip on the wheel

:10:43. > :10:47.and a sense of direction. And now there's another headache for the

:10:48. > :10:50.Labour leader. Latest figures show that inflation has fallen to 1.7% -

:10:51. > :11:02.is Mr Miliband's "cost of living crisis" mantra running out of road?

:11:03. > :11:09.Emma Reynolds, what do you make of this latest poll from YouGov which

:11:10. > :11:12.shows that less than a fifth of voters see Ed Miliband as a Prime

:11:13. > :11:17.Minister in waiting? The only polls which count are in May this year,

:11:18. > :11:21.and in the general election next year. We have got some very bold

:11:22. > :11:26.policies, if anyone has got direction and vision, it is Ed

:11:27. > :11:30.Miliband, not David Cameron. The Labour Party, like other parties,

:11:31. > :11:38.would not spend thousands of pounds on this kind of poll... Polls go up

:11:39. > :11:44.and down. All parties spend money on polls. Not only does it seem that

:11:45. > :11:48.only a fifth seed him as a Prime Minister in waiting, but fewer than

:11:49. > :11:52.half of Labour voters see him as a Prime Minister in waiting just why

:11:53. > :11:55.do you think that is? I think Ed Miliband is the only party leader

:11:56. > :12:00.who has the ideas, the values and the policies to address the problems

:12:01. > :12:06.that people face across the country. Why don't the voters agree with

:12:07. > :12:10.you? We had the second worst election defeat in the last 100

:12:11. > :12:14.years in 2010. We are in contention for the next general election. We

:12:15. > :12:18.have framed the debate around the cost of living, despite what the

:12:19. > :12:27.inflation figures say, people are facing a real score ways. -- a real

:12:28. > :12:34.squeeze. So why are a fifth of people only seeing Mr Miliband as a

:12:35. > :12:36.Prime Minister in waiting? If you were winning the argument is, why

:12:37. > :12:45.are the people not responding? Ed Miliband has been clear, and we

:12:46. > :12:49.know... Not clear enough! The next general election will be close, and

:12:50. > :12:54.we have been honest about that. People are less tribal than they

:12:55. > :12:57.used to be. Unfortunately people do not trust politicians like us, and

:12:58. > :13:02.we can have a wider discussion about that. We are working hard to get our

:13:03. > :13:05.message across. There is a long way to go before the general election in

:13:06. > :13:10.2015. I am confident that we have got the right policies, we have got

:13:11. > :13:14.a leader who is determined to make Britain a better place to live. What

:13:15. > :13:18.I was trying to find out was why this was not cutting through to the

:13:19. > :13:24.voters. David Lammy, a colleague of yours in the Labour Party in the

:13:25. > :13:28.Commons, says, we, the Labour Party, have not crossed the Rubicon yet to

:13:29. > :13:34.be regarded as a government in waiting. Do you agree with that? No,

:13:35. > :13:37.I totally disagree. We are the only party out of the three big parties

:13:38. > :13:45.which has ideas about an energy price freeze, a jobs guarantee, a

:13:46. > :13:50.real vision about improving people's lives in the UK. Obviously, we have

:13:51. > :13:55.to that message to people, and obviously, polls go up and down. At

:13:56. > :14:00.the moment they are just going down. Well, I do not agree with

:14:01. > :14:04.David. I think that colleagues in the Labour Party should not be

:14:05. > :14:09.talking like that, they should hold their nerve. Of course polls go up

:14:10. > :14:17.and down, we know that. Let me come to you, Anna Soubry. The Chancellor

:14:18. > :14:20.set this welfare trap for Labour, putting a cap on welfare spending,

:14:21. > :14:25.but they did not fall for it. They are going to vote for it. And it is

:14:26. > :14:30.meaningless anyway, it is only the amount you are already spending on

:14:31. > :14:32.welfare, excluding the job-seekers allowance and pensions, and then it

:14:33. > :14:38.is inflation linked for the years ahead, there is nothing to it? No, I

:14:39. > :14:42.do not agree with you at all. Forgive me, the description of it

:14:43. > :14:49.being a for Miliband are your words, that is not what we are on about. It

:14:50. > :14:52.is not about trying to trap Labour. That is what the spin people were

:14:53. > :14:57.saying at a briefing last week. That is why we speak to them. It was

:14:58. > :15:02.clearly seen as a trap. But they have not fallen for it, they voted

:15:03. > :15:07.for it. They say one thing, I think they are all over the place on the

:15:08. > :15:09.Basingstoke. But going back to the welfare cap, I listened to Iain

:15:10. > :15:13.Duncan Smith on the radio this morning, and I think it is the right

:15:14. > :15:17.thing to do. The great British public do not know the huge amounts

:15:18. > :15:21.of money which are spent on welfare. What we saw in the last government

:15:22. > :15:25.was huge increases in welfare spending, but without any proper

:15:26. > :15:39.debate and without people either understanding it, or, more

:15:40. > :15:46.importantly, agreeing to it. Get to the point of the cap. Welfare

:15:47. > :15:50.continues to rise. Yes, but if Labour are true to their commitment,

:15:51. > :15:55.which is to abolish what they call the bedroom tax, what we call the

:15:56. > :15:59.spare room subsidy, they will have to explain that, they will have to

:16:00. > :16:07.go into the House of Commons and deal with that argument. This cap

:16:08. > :16:12.has more holes in it than the cheese were going to be talking about

:16:13. > :16:16.later. It does not include state pensions, all any government has to

:16:17. > :16:22.do is get a majority in the House of Commons. Mr Blair could have done it

:16:23. > :16:26.at any time, it is just you are not used to a majority. And there is 2%

:16:27. > :16:31.wiggle room in it as well. You can be up or down 2% before you even

:16:32. > :16:37.have to go to the Commons. But it is the right thing to do, isn't it? I

:16:38. > :16:40.believe it is. We cannot live any longer in a society where our

:16:41. > :16:55.welfare budget is spiralling out of control. The welfare cap will be set

:16:56. > :17:00.at 119 million per 1516. That is to take account of inflation. But you

:17:01. > :17:07.are not cutting the welfare budget then, are you? What we're saying is,

:17:08. > :17:12.you put that cap there so you did a responsible thing. It is an

:17:13. > :17:21.inflatable cap, it goes up every year. You keep interrupting me. It

:17:22. > :17:26.ensures you are held to account. When people hear those figures and

:17:27. > :17:29.compare them to the amount of money spent on schools, 51 billion is

:17:30. > :17:36.spent on schools, and when they find out how much is being spent on

:17:37. > :17:43.welfare... But you are increasing it. Emma, is Labour committing

:17:44. > :17:55.itself to caps in future years as well? We are committed to a cap. You

:17:56. > :18:01.have committed to be 119 billion the 2015 and 2016. What about after

:18:02. > :18:06.that? I think it is right that inflation is taken into account. We

:18:07. > :18:16.will wait to see what the detail is. We are committed to the cap and

:18:17. > :18:20.taking into account inflation. Your problem is, if you are going to

:18:21. > :18:23.stick to your promise, you cannot stick to those figures, so you to go

:18:24. > :18:29.back to the House of Commons and the argument. I'm willing to have a

:18:30. > :18:32.large about what this means in practice. It means tackling the

:18:33. > :18:39.underlying causes of increases in the bill. Housing benefit is going

:18:40. > :18:43.up even for people in work because they are not earning enough in work

:18:44. > :18:47.in wages and because rents are increasing because of the housing

:18:48. > :18:51.crisis with a shortage of homes. So why cut the affordable homes budget

:18:52. > :19:00.by 16% and then be surprised that housing benefit is increasing? It is

:19:01. > :19:06.about getting people into work. Of course it is, but it is also about

:19:07. > :19:13.rent amounts and people being paid enough. The Chancellor's big

:19:14. > :19:20.announcement was to build what is being called a new garden city in

:19:21. > :19:24.Kent. This is a promise to build 15,000 homes. How is this different

:19:25. > :19:31.from a press release from the community 's department in 2012 that

:19:32. > :19:38.promised 20,000 new homes in that same place? Now it is down to

:19:39. > :19:47.15,000. It is all smoke and mirrors. I've no idea. I don't know about a

:19:48. > :19:55.press release in 2012. My point is, there is nothing new. This is a

:19:56. > :20:03.commitment. Well, the commitment in December 2012 was that there would

:20:04. > :20:12.be 20,000 homes. Now there is the actual detail of it. It is a

:20:13. > :20:24.downgrade to 5000 fewer homes. Even I worked that out! I did know about

:20:25. > :20:30.2012 press releases. Why not? You are running the country. I'm not

:20:31. > :20:38.responsible but every single press release published by Parliament.

:20:39. > :20:41.Well, they're weighing in and limbering up for the big fight.

:20:42. > :20:45.Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg meet for the first of two contests -

:20:46. > :20:51.tonight's on LBC radio - to debate Europe. The in versus out showdown

:20:52. > :20:59.seems to have got the UKIP leader excited. I've waited 20 years to

:21:00. > :21:10.have a proper debate on national media about whether we should be a

:21:11. > :21:17.member of the yuan not. -- the EU or not. It's like going to a party,

:21:18. > :21:23.sometimes you asked, will it be good? Or will it be flat? We don't

:21:24. > :21:30.know. I hope we can stick to the arguments. But it will be fun. Nick

:21:31. > :21:34.Clegg was more tight-lipped. Yes, I'm looking forward to it

:21:35. > :21:37.enormously. Thank you. So did we mention the TV debate

:21:38. > :21:44.between Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage is at 7pm next Wednesday here on BBC

:21:45. > :21:48.Two? I think we may have done. But what would you ask them? For your

:21:49. > :21:52.chance to be part of the studio audience on the night and put your

:21:53. > :21:55.question to the two party leaders, email the question you would like to

:21:56. > :22:01.ask to europedebate@bbc.co.uk, or tweet it using the hashtag

:22:02. > :22:09.#europedebate. Who do you want to win? I don't really care. I'm a

:22:10. > :22:13.passionate pro-European. I believe jobs would be at risk, and

:22:14. > :22:17.investment, if we were to leave. However, I also know most of my

:22:18. > :22:20.constituents don't really care either way who wins this debate

:22:21. > :22:24.because what they are facing every day of their lives is a cost of

:22:25. > :22:29.living crisis, they worried about their energy bills, are worried

:22:30. > :22:33.about putting food on the table. Many are resorting to food banks.

:22:34. > :22:49.Deliberately care about a debate of our membership of the youth? --the

:22:50. > :22:54.EU? You have said you are passionate about being pro-European. Surely

:22:55. > :22:57.then you will support Nick Clegg. I think there's a distraction from

:22:58. > :23:03.important issues. It is an important issues and I've said I do agree with

:23:04. > :23:10.the pro-European argument. So you would rather Nick Clegg one. I don't

:23:11. > :23:16.really care but I do agree we are better in the European Union than

:23:17. > :23:23.out of it. So we will take that adds that you sort of support those

:23:24. > :23:26.arguments. One reason why we have a problem with the idea that

:23:27. > :23:31.politicians can be trusted is that we don't give a straight answer. Of

:23:32. > :23:34.course I want Nick Clegg's views on Europe to win. I don't agree with

:23:35. > :23:38.his party's policy on Europe in the sense that he will not give us a

:23:39. > :23:44.referendum, but this is absolutely the debate I want. Only we will

:23:45. > :23:48.deliver a referendum, because Nigel Farage can't. I want a healthy

:23:49. > :23:53.debate and I'm sorry, maybe I'm wrong, but I think you also want a

:23:54. > :24:00.proper debate about the union. I'm in favour of our partnership. But I

:24:01. > :24:14.want a debate. I tell you what, it's on to night. So why doesn't David

:24:15. > :24:18.Cameron take part? I don't think he should have to take part, otherwise

:24:19. > :24:22.we would Ed Miliband and God knows who else. If these two want to have

:24:23. > :24:25.a debate, that's up to them. I want to have a referendum so that this

:24:26. > :24:30.country finally has a proper, informed debate about the union. We

:24:31. > :24:35.get the reforms that we want, we put it to the people. In my opinion, the

:24:36. > :24:39.people of Britain will vote in favour of staying within their

:24:40. > :24:44.European Union because most of us are sensible and moderate and we

:24:45. > :24:59.will see the benefits. Who are your fellow Conservatives MPs wanting to

:25:00. > :25:05.win? Idaho. -- I don't know. Because there is a divide within your party,

:25:06. > :25:11.is in there? The media often comment on this but I don't think the media

:25:12. > :25:19.really understand the backbenches. People say we are against the EU. It

:25:20. > :25:26.is not as simple as that. There are a significant number of us who are

:25:27. > :25:38.in favour of our membership. Of course some want us to leave. So it

:25:39. > :25:41.is a deep divide. This is a rehearsal for tonight? We have to

:25:42. > :25:45.leave it there. Now, a survey out this week revealed

:25:46. > :25:48.the great British tea round is on its way out. 2.5 million workers

:25:49. > :25:53.claim they are simply too busy to put the kettle on and wait around to

:25:54. > :25:56.make tea or coffee for everyone. A third said they would rather just

:25:57. > :26:00.make themselves a drink and get back to work, the selfish so-and-sos. And

:26:01. > :26:04.to avoid making a cuppa for others, they'll even go so far as to make a

:26:05. > :26:12.rubbish cup of tea so they're never asked again. That probably explains

:26:13. > :26:16.why Jo's tea is undrinkable. Well, we'd like to do our bit to reverse

:26:17. > :26:19.this shocking trend - and regular viewers will know where this is

:26:20. > :26:23.going - by giving you the chance to win something that you'll be so keen

:26:24. > :26:28.to show off to colleagues you'll end up making round after round. Yes,

:26:29. > :26:32.it's the Daily Politics mug. And it works for tea and coffee. We haven't

:26:33. > :26:37.tested it with other liquids. We'll remind you how to enter in a

:26:38. > :27:30.minute, but let's see if you can remember when this happened.

:27:31. > :27:53.To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug, send your answer

:27:54. > :27:59.to our special quiz email address - that's dpquiz@bbc.co.uk. And you can

:28:00. > :28:05.see the full terms and conditions for Guess The Year on our website.

:28:06. > :28:09.It's coming up to midday here - just take a look at Big Ben - and that

:28:10. > :28:12.can mean only one thing. Yes, Prime Minister's Questions is on its way.

:28:13. > :28:15.If you'd like to comment on proceedings, you can email us at

:28:16. > :28:18.daily.politics@bbc.co.uk or tweet your thoughts using the hashtag

:28:19. > :28:24.#bbcdp - we'll read some out after PMQs.

:28:25. > :28:27.And that's not all - fresh from Manchester's victory in that soccer

:28:28. > :28:42.match last night, Nick Robinson is here.

:28:43. > :28:56.# Blue moon, you saw me standing alone...

:28:57. > :29:06.You changing jobs, Nick? Are you a commentator? Sports pundit. Not that

:29:07. > :29:16.I care, but let's have a listen to what you had to say. What is your

:29:17. > :29:31.prediction of the score? I'm going to settle. 6-1 would do me. Did you

:29:32. > :29:35.say which way round? I heard Robert Preston being interviewed about

:29:36. > :29:45.Arsenal's manager as well. Having you guys got day jobs? We have, but

:29:46. > :29:52.we like to spread our wings. What about tonight, that is the biggest

:29:53. > :30:00.battle. You are asking a man United if they want Liverpool to win. So

:30:01. > :30:11.did Manchester United not win last night?

:30:12. > :30:18.I shall have further such meetings later today.

:30:19. > :30:22.Thank you, Mr Speaker. What assurances can the Prime Minister

:30:23. > :30:27.give to residents in West Lancashire that localism will give them a fair

:30:28. > :30:32.chance against greed and profit, when it comes to their wish to end

:30:33. > :30:37.hazardous waste dumping, given that there is no evidence of need, a

:30:38. > :30:43.promise it would end in 1995, and a community, including its MP, were

:30:44. > :30:49.repeatedly saying, no more dumping. Those the Prime Minister really

:30:50. > :30:52.believe in localism? I do believe in localism, which is why we got rid of

:30:53. > :31:00.a lot of the regional strategies and organisations. We did a number of

:31:01. > :31:05.things that local councils have been asking for, in terms of empowering

:31:06. > :31:09.them, not least giving them a duty of competence, so that they can act

:31:10. > :31:17.where necessary. On that specific issue, I will look at it and write

:31:18. > :31:22.to her. I know my Right Honourable Friend

:31:23. > :31:26.will be as concerned as I am about potential job losses at Honda in my

:31:27. > :31:29.constituency. Will he work with myself and my colleague for South

:31:30. > :31:36.Swindon to help at this difficult time? I completely understand My

:31:37. > :31:40.Honourable Friend's concern, and we will be working with local partners

:31:41. > :31:43.to minimise the impact of these job losses. Honda have assured us that

:31:44. > :31:47.they are committed to the long-term success of this plant in Swindon,

:31:48. > :31:52.which I have been to, and it is a remarkable plant. I know Honda

:31:53. > :31:55.remains committed to the UK, and we will work with the local council and

:31:56. > :32:00.local people to make sure Swindon continues to have a strong and

:32:01. > :32:12.successful economic future. Mr Edwin van!

:32:13. > :32:16.-- Ed Miliband! This morning, we learned that the energy company SSE

:32:17. > :32:23.will be freezing its energy prices for 20 months. Would we be right to

:32:24. > :32:28.assume that the Prime Minister believes that this price freeze is

:32:29. > :32:37.unworkable, impossible to implement and probably a communist plot? It is

:32:38. > :32:44.hugely welcome in our country that energy companies are cutting and

:32:45. > :32:48.freezing bells. As ever, with the Right Honourable gentleman, he has

:32:49. > :32:53.failed to read the small print. This is what SSE say about why they have

:32:54. > :33:01.been able to cut bills in this way... Yes. This is what they say.

:33:02. > :33:09.The decisions taken by the Government to reduce the costs of

:33:10. > :33:16.the environment levy were a crucial factor... That is what is happening

:33:17. > :33:23.under this government. And what a contrast, with the doubling of the

:33:24. > :33:29.gas bills and the 50% increase in electricity bills when Labour were

:33:30. > :33:35.in power. So, Mr Speaker, over the last six months, we have obviously

:33:36. > :33:39.misunderstood the Prime Minister. He is the champion of the price

:33:40. > :33:45.freeze! That is what he wants us to understand. Week after week, he

:33:46. > :33:49.denounced Labour 's call for an energy price freeze to help families

:33:50. > :33:55.and businesses, and now, apparently, he supports a price freeze. Can he

:33:56. > :34:00.explain why a price freeze was wrong six months ago, but it is the right

:34:01. > :34:04.thing to do today? What we have done is reduce the costs of energy

:34:05. > :34:15.charges, so that companies are able to their bills. -- to cap their

:34:16. > :34:20.bills. Since I made the announcement about rolling back the costs of

:34:21. > :34:24.green charges... We must be able to hear both the questions and the

:34:25. > :34:29.answers. You're right, Mr Speaker, they shout about him in support in

:34:30. > :34:35.here and then they brief against him outside. That is what happens. This

:34:36. > :34:40.is what happened since I made that announcement. For dual fuel users,

:34:41. > :34:49.British Gas have cut ?50 off bills, ScottishPower, ?54 off bills, aeon,

:34:50. > :34:53.?54, EDF, ?65 off bills, and the other three have all announced that

:34:54. > :34:59.prices will not go up further in 2014. So, can I thank him for the

:35:00. > :35:03.opportunity to demonstrate how this part of our long-term economic man

:35:04. > :35:12.is as successful as all the other parts? But once again, Mr Speaker,

:35:13. > :35:16.he shows how totally out of touch he is. The OBR it self says that energy

:35:17. > :35:23.prices are rising by more than double the rate of inflation. That

:35:24. > :35:26.is the reality. But I am interested in his position now on price

:35:27. > :35:32.freezes, because the Energy Secretary said this morning, I will

:35:33. > :35:39.tell them what is weak, it is not standing up to the energy companies.

:35:40. > :35:50.The Energy Secretary, who I see over there, the Energy Secretary said

:35:51. > :35:55.this morning that he was calling on other suppliers to do the same and

:35:56. > :36:01.freeze their bills. Is it now the Prime Minister's policy that we

:36:02. > :36:05.should freeze bills? It is our policy that bills should be, and

:36:06. > :36:08.bills are being capped by this government. That is what is

:36:09. > :36:11.happening just when we come to the small print, let's have a look at

:36:12. > :36:17.what Scottish southern said about the Labour policy. I will tell you

:36:18. > :36:22.what is weak. Week is not having an economic policy. Week is not

:36:23. > :36:26.responding to the budget. Weak is having no long-term plan for

:36:27. > :36:35.Britain. That is what is weak. This is what SSE safe. They say, on

:36:36. > :36:38.Labour policy, it does not appear to include a clear commitment or a

:36:39. > :36:45.long-term solution to reduce the costs of supplying electricity and

:36:46. > :36:48.gas. An externally imposed 20 month price freeze would not reduce the

:36:49. > :36:57.cost of supplying energy. That is what SSE say. And that is why I

:36:58. > :37:01.assume I have found a Labour business supporter. He is called

:37:02. > :37:05.John Mills, and this is what he said about Labour's policy yesterday. EZ,

:37:06. > :37:11.I do not think the Labour Party would do that if it were in power.

:37:12. > :37:17.If they cannot convince their one business supporter, how can they

:37:18. > :37:21.convince the country? Mr Speaker, he is not the Prime Minister at all, he

:37:22. > :37:27.is the PR man for the energy companies. That is what he is. Bills

:37:28. > :37:32.are rising. And what is clear is that his argument against a freeze

:37:33. > :37:37.has been totally demolished today. A price freeze for households and

:37:38. > :37:44.businesses is feasible, workable, and it will happen under a Labour

:37:45. > :37:47.government. And all of this shows he just does not get the cost of living

:37:48. > :37:54.crisis which is happening around this country. Can he confirmed that

:37:55. > :37:57.the OBR it self has said that over the course of this Parliament,

:37:58. > :38:02.living standards will be falling, and it is the first time that has

:38:03. > :38:08.happened since the war? Isn't it great, after a week, we have finally

:38:09. > :38:12.got to the Budget! He has finally got something to say about the

:38:13. > :38:18.Budget. He might want to explain why he has voted against a Budget that

:38:19. > :38:21.has a ?7 billion cut for energy prices for businesses and consumers

:38:22. > :38:27.around the country. Why did they vote against that? Is he is

:38:28. > :38:34.concerned about the cost of living? Why did they vote against a personal

:38:35. > :38:38.allowance of ?10,500? If they are concerned about the cost of living,

:38:39. > :38:42.why did they vote against giving pensioners the right to spend their

:38:43. > :38:46.own money as they choose? If you care about the cost of living, why

:38:47. > :38:50.did you vote against abolishing the savings tax, paid for by the poorest

:38:51. > :39:05.people in our country and no not a clue about how to help working

:39:06. > :39:14.people. No clue about the Budget. Not for the first time, calm down,

:39:15. > :39:20.dear, calm down. Or should I say, for the benefit of the Chancellor,

:39:21. > :39:25.eyes down, dear. Eyes down, dear. The truth is that living standards

:39:26. > :39:28.are falling over this Parliament. And he talks about what the

:39:29. > :39:37.Chancellor did on energy. It is classic give with one he introduced

:39:38. > :39:40.a carbon price floor, and now he wants credit for giving part of it

:39:41. > :39:46.back to families and businesses. Let's try him again - can he

:39:47. > :39:48.confirmed that page 87 of the OBR document says that living standards

:39:49. > :39:55.are falling over the Parliament, yes or no? The figures he quotes time

:39:56. > :40:04.and again at this dispatch box say... Order! Let's hear the

:40:05. > :40:08.answers. Of course we were made poorer by the great recession which

:40:09. > :40:14.they presided over. I am happy to compare the record on the cost of

:40:15. > :40:18.living any time. We are cutting income tax for 25 million people.

:40:19. > :40:22.They voted against it. We have taken 3.2 million people out of income tax

:40:23. > :40:28.altogether, they voted against it. We voted to freeze council tax, they

:40:29. > :40:32.voted against it. We are freezing fuel duty, they voted against it. We

:40:33. > :40:35.are cutting spending so we can cut taxes for hard-working people - they

:40:36. > :40:42.have voted against every single change. Their vote against the

:40:43. > :40:47.Budget last night will go down in the history of this Parliament as a

:40:48. > :40:53.massive own goal for Labour. He will go down in history as the Prime

:40:54. > :40:57.Minister who cut people's living standards over the course of this

:40:58. > :41:01.Parliament, and he cannot deny it. He cannot solve the cost of living

:41:02. > :41:06.crisis, Mr Speaker, when he does not think there is one. He will not

:41:07. > :41:10.freeze energy bills, because it has nothing to do with government. The

:41:11. > :41:14.thing you can always rely on with this prime minister, he will always

:41:15. > :41:18.stand up for the wrong people. What is happening under this government

:41:19. > :41:22.is, inflation is falling, unemployment is coming down, 1.3

:41:23. > :41:27.million more people in work, 400,000 more businesses we are helping this

:41:28. > :41:33.economy recover from the ravages that it was left under Labour. That

:41:34. > :41:37.is the truth, Mr Speaker. Everyone can see that we have a plan for a

:41:38. > :41:43.better future for our country, and everyone can see, he is flailing

:41:44. > :41:55.around, a man with no plan, and increasingly, no future.

:41:56. > :42:02.Thank you, Mr Speaker. Children with cancer are being denied new life

:42:03. > :42:07.saving drugs because of out of date rules governing clinical trials,

:42:08. > :42:12.allowing companies to exclude children even when the drugs could

:42:13. > :42:17.treat childhood cancer. Will he'd join with me to try to get these

:42:18. > :42:28.rules changed, to give families hope? I am very happy to listen to

:42:29. > :42:34.his suggestions. He and I both support the Cancer Drugs Fund, which

:42:35. > :42:47.has made a huge difference, but I am happy to listen to his suggestion.

:42:48. > :42:53.Can I have some calm, please? Mr Speaker, beer and bingo may not

:42:54. > :42:58.exactly be the bread and circuses of our age, but as leading lights of

:42:59. > :43:02.the coalition rush forward to express their love for them, will

:43:03. > :43:05.the Prime Minister dissociate himself from the snobbish and

:43:06. > :43:11.disdainful comments made by his party chairman? Can I thank the

:43:12. > :43:17.Honourable Gentleman for once again advertising the fact that this

:43:18. > :43:21.government is cutting the tax on bingo, and quite right, because

:43:22. > :43:24.their industry was decimated by Labour. Can I thank him also for

:43:25. > :43:29.pointing out the Chancellor's approach of cutting the duty,

:43:30. > :43:34.because we want to back responsible drinkers, and because we back the

:43:35. > :43:36.pub trade. Yes, I am sure the Right Honourable gentleman sitting

:43:37. > :43:38.opposite enjoys a game of bingo, it is the only time he ever gets close

:43:39. > :44:00.to number ten. Mr Speaker, yesterday, in the

:44:01. > :44:04.all-party group, we heard a powerful and moving account of the effects of

:44:05. > :44:08.post traumatic stress disorder. Will my Right Honourable Friend join me

:44:09. > :44:15.in paying tribute to Simon and Louisa, who completed their epic run

:44:16. > :44:18.from Leeds to Parliament yesterday, to support their organisation which

:44:19. > :44:22.seeks greater research into this. As well as being one of the hidden

:44:23. > :44:26.costs of armed conflict, it affects thousands of people who have been

:44:27. > :44:31.the vicar hymns of rape, sexual assault and other life changing

:44:32. > :44:36.trauma, . -- the victims of rape. I am happy to join him in paying

:44:37. > :44:40.tribute to the many people who achieved so much through their run.

:44:41. > :44:44.Organisations like combat stress to an extraordinary job in our

:44:45. > :44:46.country. We have to face up to the fact that because of the conflicts

:44:47. > :44:52.in Iraq and Afghanistan, we will have many all people -- many more

:44:53. > :44:56.people needing our help long into the future. That is why I think the

:44:57. > :45:02.Chancellor's decision to take the money from the LIBOR finds and use

:45:03. > :45:09.that to back military charities like this is very far-sighted. The 25th

:45:10. > :45:13.anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster is less than three weeks

:45:14. > :45:17.away, and the fresh inquests are due to start. Does the Prime Minister

:45:18. > :45:22.agree with me that it is a scandal that some police officers who were

:45:23. > :45:24.on duty on the day of the disaster are refusing to co-operate with the

:45:25. > :45:34.investigation, and can he say what he will do to prevent such a

:45:35. > :45:40.situation happening again? He knows the IPCC is investigating all of

:45:41. > :45:46.these complaints. In addition, families can complain to the

:45:47. > :45:49.tribunal as well. Letters have been written to asked that police

:45:50. > :45:59.officers provide all the information they can. Does the Prime Minister

:46:00. > :46:09.agree we should assist in investment to ensure a competitive and

:46:10. > :46:13.sustainable future? We should certainly do that. We have seen a

:46:14. > :46:18.huge recovery in our automotive industry. If we look at component

:46:19. > :46:24.supplies and manufacture for the industry we have some huge success

:46:25. > :46:26.stories. The programme in the budget of helping energy intensive

:46:27. > :46:30.industries will obviously help some of the companies involved, but the

:46:31. > :46:35.broader help, the ?7 billion I referred to earlier, will help all

:46:36. > :46:41.businesses involved in automated supply. One month ago I asked about

:46:42. > :46:45.ambulance response times and the Prime Minister read out an answer

:46:46. > :46:53.that did not and so the question at all. Since then, an elderly

:46:54. > :46:56.Darlington woman was left for more than four hours vomiting blood

:46:57. > :46:59.before an ambulance arrived. This time can I please not have a

:47:00. > :47:04.preprepared answer. Can we please have some action? I'm very happy to

:47:05. > :47:08.look at the case the Honourable Lady mentions. She says she does not one

:47:09. > :47:13.that but I think that is the right thing to do, to see what this

:47:14. > :47:16.individual case involved. What we have in all areas are waiting times

:47:17. > :47:20.that ambulances are meant to meet. I'm happy to look what happened and

:47:21. > :47:29.this case and whether lessons can be learned. With consent is breaking

:47:30. > :47:35.out in support of budget measures to help those providing for themselves,

:47:36. > :47:39.will my right honourable friend join me in seeking a new consensus

:47:40. > :47:45.against imposing taxes on houses that have risen in value but whose

:47:46. > :47:50.owners may well be retired? What we want to see in our system is a fair

:47:51. > :47:55.tax system. Under this Government, the rich have paid more in tax,

:47:56. > :48:01.specifically, more in income tax, than in any year they ever did under

:48:02. > :48:13.Labour. We've made sure we raised taxes fairly, not least through sax

:48:14. > :48:16.duty. -- stamp duty. 70% of stay at home mums say going back to work

:48:17. > :48:21.does not add up because of rising childcare costs leaving them worse.

:48:22. > :48:26.With maternal employment rates going down on his watch, why is he doing

:48:27. > :48:35.nothing to help with the issue of rising childcare costs before the

:48:36. > :48:39.general election? We are helping childcare by giving 15 hours. That

:48:40. > :48:46.is happening and that this Government, in this Parliament. 15

:48:47. > :48:49.hours of free card can -- childcare and nursery care but three and

:48:50. > :48:58.four-year-olds. This aid is not enough, it is more than Labour ever

:48:59. > :49:08.provided. The Shadow Chancellor will be out in a minute briefing against

:49:09. > :49:11.it! Mr Speaker, the whole world has watched with grave concern events in

:49:12. > :49:16.the Crimea and the amassing of Russian troops on the eastern border

:49:17. > :49:23.of the Ukraine. Coming on top of other instability in the world,

:49:24. > :49:28.Styria -- Syria, northern Africa, is it not time the Prime Minister may

:49:29. > :49:33.be thought about reversing some of the deep and damaging defence cuts?

:49:34. > :49:36.We will review the National defence strategy on the four-year rolling

:49:37. > :49:45.basis we established. I think that is the right thing to do. In terms

:49:46. > :49:50.of defence spending, we started top to five -- we still have big top

:49:51. > :49:56.five defence spending of any country in the world. Would set out 160

:49:57. > :50:02.billion to spend on equipment. We would not be able to do if we had

:50:03. > :50:09.not taken difficult long-term decisions at the start of this

:50:10. > :50:12.Parliament. Over 80% of spending on transport infrastructure will be on

:50:13. > :50:18.London in the south-east, with nearly ?5,000 per head with

:50:19. > :50:22.Achenbach with ?250 in the north-east. This gross disparity

:50:23. > :50:26.does nothing to help constituencies like Middlesbrough pursue ambitions

:50:27. > :50:29.the growth. Should not the distribution be more equitable

:50:30. > :50:34.across the region 's? When I look at what this Government has done in

:50:35. > :50:38.terms of transport infrastructure, in the North of England, we spent 8

:50:39. > :50:42.billion on transport in the North of England in the first two years of

:50:43. > :50:49.this Parliament. The modernisation of the Tyne Wear Metro, a new Tyne

:50:50. > :50:56.Crossing, 850 million to upgrade the A1 and feasibility studies to

:50:57. > :51:00.improve the A1 north of Newcastle - all proposals put forward under this

:51:01. > :51:04.Government. We are rebalancing our economy, we are investing in

:51:05. > :51:10.infrastructure and we're making sure the North of England gets its fair

:51:11. > :51:16.share. And employment in my constituency has fallen by over 20%

:51:17. > :51:20.in the last 12 months. With inflation recently falling as well,

:51:21. > :51:23.that is providing welcome our upward pressure on living standards. Would

:51:24. > :51:26.my right honourable friend therefore agree that we should take no lessons

:51:27. > :51:31.from the persistent negativity of the party opposite talking our

:51:32. > :51:37.country down? We should stick to our long-term economic plan. An absolute

:51:38. > :51:44.key part of our long-term plan is helping business to create the jobs

:51:45. > :51:47.that our country needs. We got 1.3 million in work, 1.7 million more

:51:48. > :51:55.private-sector jobs compared to 2010. What that means the people is

:51:56. > :51:58.the safety and security of having a payback get at the end of the week

:51:59. > :52:06.so they can support their families. That is what is changing our

:52:07. > :52:13.country. Despite what the Government have said about cutting energy

:52:14. > :52:17.costs, 71% of people in North Tyneside survey say they are still

:52:18. > :52:21.worried about their bills and want a full price freeze now. Will a Prime

:52:22. > :52:26.Minister listened to the people of North Tyneside and meet that demand?

:52:27. > :52:30.The most important thing we can do is to help the energy companies

:52:31. > :52:33.reduce bills by rolling back the costs of these green levies and

:52:34. > :52:39.charges. It is only since we done at that we'd seen energy company after

:52:40. > :52:45.energy company reduce the costs for people's bills. We went to see a

:52:46. > :52:48.more competitive market with more players. These things were having to

:52:49. > :52:51.correct from the disastrous stewardship of the Department of

:52:52. > :52:58.energy when the right Honourable Gentleman was in charge. Eg,

:52:59. > :53:02.thousands of lives are needlessly lost in this country because we

:53:03. > :53:06.diagnose their cancer is far too late. The all-party group on cancer

:53:07. > :53:14.and the wider cancer community has successfully lobbied the Government

:53:15. > :53:17.to make sure local and national NHS authorities are measured by one year

:53:18. > :53:23.survival rates, in order to promote early diagnosis. The Government

:53:24. > :53:29.deserves great credit the listening, but twice now, at late notice, the

:53:30. > :53:32.publication of the one-year figures has been postponed. Will the Prime

:53:33. > :53:38.Minister do what he can to ensure that we meet the next deadline? On

:53:39. > :53:41.the specific point my honourable friend says, yes, we will be

:53:42. > :53:49.publishing those important figures in June. What we're doing in terms

:53:50. > :53:53.of cancer is backing the NHS with extra money. We have a cancer drugs

:53:54. > :53:58.find which has helped over 44,000 people since this Government came to

:53:59. > :54:03.office. There is no cancer drugs find in Wales made available for

:54:04. > :54:07.people, but it is here in England. We are spending 750 million on

:54:08. > :54:11.cancer services but he is absolutely right about early diagnosis. That is

:54:12. > :54:16.why it is important to make sure we doing everything we can with GPs to

:54:17. > :54:21.make sure it is diagnosed earlier. The whole House will be well aware

:54:22. > :54:25.of the contribution to the immense suffering of thousands of innocent

:54:26. > :54:31.victims across the UK made by the Gaddafi regime's state sponsorship

:54:32. > :54:34.by a terrorism and the supply of arms sent over many years to

:54:35. > :54:38.republican groups. Does he agree with what he previously said, that

:54:39. > :54:41.the issue of compensation from Libya remains a priority for this

:54:42. > :54:55.Government? Willie agreed to meet with me to review the case under

:54:56. > :55:02.discussion? -- will he agree? The Libyan operatives Rian --

:55:03. > :55:05.authorities are in no doubt about the importance we are placed on

:55:06. > :55:09.that. It is difficult to make progress on this issue given the

:55:10. > :55:13.situation but I am happy to meet with the Honourable Gentleman to

:55:14. > :55:16.discuss that. Does the boy minister welcomed the change from the last

:55:17. > :55:26.Labour Government which talked loosely about British jobs for

:55:27. > :55:32.British workers? 90% of new jobs went to foreign nationals. This

:55:33. > :55:37.Government has the at -- let the success of its economic plan do the

:55:38. > :55:44.talking. Last year, nearly 90% of new jobs went to British workers. My

:55:45. > :55:54.honourable friend is absolutely right. Last year, employment went up

:55:55. > :55:59.by 425,000 people. 420 by thousand more breadwinners earning for their

:56:00. > :56:03.families. I believe 80% of those jobs went to British nationals.

:56:04. > :56:12.There is much more we are aiming to do. We have more announcements this

:56:13. > :56:17.week is -- about the creation of jobs and apprenticeships. We want to

:56:18. > :56:20.make sure young people are available and train for those jobs. That means

:56:21. > :56:26.improving schools and skills and investing in apprenticeships.

:56:27. > :56:33.Westminster is awash with the rim of the Government is considering an

:56:34. > :56:41.amendment to the hunting act. -- with the rumour. Will the Prime

:56:42. > :56:49.Minister confirm his commitment to the coalition agreement which only

:56:50. > :56:55.allows for a free vote on the repeal of the legislation? It's a good

:56:56. > :57:02.moment to talk about rumours. As she knows, proposals were made on a

:57:03. > :57:06.cross-party basis to the Environment Secretary about an amendment to the

:57:07. > :57:14.hunting act that would help in particular upland farmers deal with

:57:15. > :57:17.the problem of fax -- fox predation on their land. I regret to say I

:57:18. > :57:31.don't think there will be Government agreement to go forward. Members are

:57:32. > :57:37.in a state of high excitement but one hopes that is because of the

:57:38. > :57:40.honourable member. I thank the Prime Minister for visiting my

:57:41. > :57:45.constituency of Tewkesbury during the recent floods. We met in a

:57:46. > :57:50.village which blood is very badly and yet there are plans to build

:57:51. > :57:54.3500 houses in that very area. Will the Prime Minister look at

:57:55. > :57:58.strengthening the planning guidance he gives with regards to flooding?

:57:59. > :58:05.Willie gives stronger guidance to the Environment Agency? -- will he

:58:06. > :58:12.give? There is a big difference between the rhetoric and what is

:58:13. > :58:15.happening. I know my honourable member's constituency has suffered

:58:16. > :58:19.repeatedly from flooding and I have visited to discuss this with local

:58:20. > :58:23.people and businesses. Any future developments have to comply with the

:58:24. > :58:26.National planning policy which makes clear that inappropriate development

:58:27. > :58:32.in areas at risk of flooding should be avoided. Secondly, in 95% of

:58:33. > :58:35.cases where the Environment Agency objects to planning on flood risk

:58:36. > :58:44.grounds, the final decision is in line with agency advice. When the

:58:45. > :58:48.salary of bankers have gone up five times the rate of ordinary workers

:58:49. > :58:52.and the top 100 chief executive officers are reigning 133 times the

:58:53. > :58:59.average workers employed in their companies, is it not right those on

:59:00. > :59:05.the higher incomes are contributing the most intact? With that in mind,

:59:06. > :59:08.will he then rule out any consideration of a further cut in

:59:09. > :59:13.the highest rate of tax for the richest 1%? We said that is not a

:59:14. > :59:17.priority, but I agree with the Honourable Gentleman that the rich

:59:18. > :59:20.should be paying more in income tax and making a bigger contribution.

:59:21. > :59:26.Under this Government, that is exactly what is happening. In a way,

:59:27. > :59:29.that is what is interesting about the Labour arguments. They can't

:59:30. > :59:32.talk about jobs because there are more of them. They can't about

:59:33. > :59:39.inflation because it has gone down. They've got one argument you --

:59:40. > :59:43.left, which is about fairness. But actually, inequality is at its

:59:44. > :59:47.lowest level since 1986, there are a million fewer people in relative

:59:48. > :59:51.poverty then when they were in the Cabinet. Half a million fewer

:59:52. > :59:56.children in poverty. The facts show this is not only a Government that

:59:57. > :00:05.is delivering recovery, it is a Government delivering it in a fair

:00:06. > :00:12.way as well. I never Prime Minister is acutely aware it is coming up to

:00:13. > :00:15.30 years anniversary of the appalling carnage at the Temple in

:00:16. > :00:19.Amritsar. I wonder what more can be done to last bring someone to

:00:20. > :00:25.justice for the appalling events that across India. My honourable

:00:26. > :00:28.friend is right. What happened in Amritsar Bedi is a gay lead to a

:00:29. > :00:54.tragic loss of life. It remains a deep source of pain. -- in Amritsar

:00:55. > :01:01.30 years ago lead to a tragic loss. He is so keen on boasting. If the

:01:02. > :01:06.proud of the back so many elderly people are no longer able to get

:01:07. > :01:10.assistance, essential assistance, because of the policies being

:01:11. > :01:15.pursued by this Government? Why is it that a Cabinet made up of so many

:01:16. > :01:24.multimillionaires are so indifferent to the needs of people are the most

:01:25. > :01:27.vulnerable in our society? I remember when Labour gave pensioners

:01:28. > :01:32.a 70 by p increase. Don't think we've forgotten about that. Don't

:01:33. > :01:36.think we and the rotten about the abolition of the tempi income tax as

:01:37. > :01:43.well. It is this Government that has taken 3 million of the poorest

:01:44. > :01:48.people out of tax. We are putting money into the social care system

:01:49. > :01:56.because we protected the NHS. That is a record that compares favourably

:01:57. > :02:08.with the party opposite. In the week of my 50th birthday, it is the 50th

:02:09. > :02:13.anniversary of a new town. Will you join me in congratulating Ken

:02:14. > :02:17.Williams for helping me to organise the anniversary? Also, my first

:02:18. > :02:21.apprenticeship fair which will see more apprenticeships on top of the

:02:22. > :02:30.3000 we've already had since this Government came to power. I publicly

:02:31. > :02:34.wish her a very happy 50th birthday. I also wish everyone in our town are

:02:35. > :02:38.happy birthday and thank her for the kind present she gave me the

:02:39. > :02:44.monopoly sat with Redditch as its basis which was a very kind gift.

:02:45. > :02:52.I'd better put that into the register of members' interests. She

:02:53. > :02:55.is absolutely right about the importance of apprenticeship fares.

:02:56. > :02:59.We 1.6 million already trained and it is one of the most important

:03:00. > :03:07.things we can do to provide a strong future bride country.

:03:08. > :03:13.So, that was familiar territory between the two frontbenchers,

:03:14. > :03:17.talking about energy price freezes, sparked off one of the big energy

:03:18. > :03:22.companies, SSE, freezing its prices into next year. And Mr Miliband

:03:23. > :03:29.wanted to know if that was a good idea, why was his idea of an overall

:03:30. > :03:37.energy price freeze not a good idea? And so it went on, back and forth.

:03:38. > :03:43.But I guess it was a repeat of many exchanges that we have had on the

:03:44. > :03:48.front benches? Our viewers reflected the conversation between the two

:03:49. > :03:56.leaders about energy prices. Well done, head, says Sara Evans in

:03:57. > :03:58.Surrey. She says she has never seen a leader of the opposition have such

:03:59. > :04:06.an influence on a private sector company. But another one says, the

:04:07. > :04:11.arguments were spurious. A fry sprees imposed by a government is a

:04:12. > :04:17.totally different thing from an announcement by a private company.

:04:18. > :04:20.-- a price freeze. This one says David Cameron continues to be

:04:21. > :04:24.economic with the truth regarding the true cost to the British people

:04:25. > :04:30.of the cost of living. Philip Jones says, Ed Miliband shows the change

:04:31. > :04:36.he is influencing in the UK by rightly raising the issue of energy

:04:37. > :04:39.price freezes. But Robert says, if I remember rightly, Ed Miliband was

:04:40. > :04:42.the Energy Secretary who left us with the big six energy companies,

:04:43. > :04:50.rather than a functioning free market. So, the cost of living issue

:04:51. > :04:55.is still the Labour Party's main attack line on the government? It

:04:56. > :04:59.is, and I think that announcement by SSE will have come as a massive

:05:00. > :05:02.relief to Ed Miliband this morning. The media were beginning to build up

:05:03. > :05:08.a narrative which said Miliband was in trouble. His poll weightings were

:05:09. > :05:12.not good. The reaction to the Budget was widely regarded as poor, well

:05:13. > :05:15.delivered, but free of content. There were think tanks and other

:05:16. > :05:18.pressure groups related to the Labour Party, who were beginning to

:05:19. > :05:24.say, the plans for the Labour manifesto look too quiet, not bold

:05:25. > :05:27.enough. Along comes a market announcement which highlights the

:05:28. > :05:32.single most popular thing he has ever announced, the energy freeze,

:05:33. > :05:36.gave him the chance to revive that, to revive the attack on David

:05:37. > :05:41.Cameron about it, and regardless of whether you think David Cameron had

:05:42. > :05:44.answers or did not, and plenty of my colleagues in the press gallery

:05:45. > :05:48.thought he did pretty well, that is not the point. Tonight on the

:05:49. > :05:52.evening news, Ed Miliband will be talking about a price freeze, he is

:05:53. > :05:57.associated with it, it is a popular issue, it is something the public

:05:58. > :06:00.care about. So that for me is a net gain for the Labour leader, because

:06:01. > :06:06.otherwise, they might have been talking about his leadership. Can

:06:07. > :06:10.the cost of living crisis line from the Labour Party last all the way

:06:11. > :06:20.until the election? We are just reflecting the concerns that we here

:06:21. > :06:24.in my constituency and across the country. There are 350,000 people

:06:25. > :06:28.resorting to food banks, which, frankly, for a country which is

:06:29. > :06:32.supposed to be one of the richest in the world, is an indictment on this

:06:33. > :06:40.government. Yes, I think it will be a recurrent theme. Over the next

:06:41. > :06:45.couple of months, and in the private sector it has already happened,

:06:46. > :06:51.wages are set to be starting to rise more quickly than prices, so will

:06:52. > :06:55.that affect things? We want that to happen. But is there not a risk that

:06:56. > :07:01.that will undermine the potency of your position? No, because people

:07:02. > :07:04.are already ?1600 a year worse off under this government, because wages

:07:05. > :07:09.are not keeping up with price rises. That is the simple truth just

:07:10. > :07:16.so, I do think it is still a very potent argent. And I think the fact

:07:17. > :07:20.that SSE have announced a price freeze today is due to our

:07:21. > :07:24.announcement in the autumn. I do not think there would be so much public

:07:25. > :07:28.focus on this had Ed Miliband not said in his conference speech that

:07:29. > :07:32.we were going to introduce a price freeze on energy. Will it not be a

:07:33. > :07:37.problem for the Conservatives, that although things may now be moving in

:07:38. > :07:46.the right direction, by the time of the election, that by most measures,

:07:47. > :07:52.people will be worse off in 2015 than they were in 2010? I think, if

:07:53. > :07:58.I may say, as somebody with a very marginal seat, what I find is that

:07:59. > :08:04.when you talk to people, they did not expect anything other than that

:08:05. > :08:09.things were going to be tough, given where things were in 2010. If we

:08:10. > :08:15.look at the polling, truthfully, Labour should be storming ahead.

:08:16. > :08:18.Anyone old enough to know what polls tell us when governments do things

:08:19. > :08:25.which are tough, the opposition does well. And I genuinely could not

:08:26. > :08:29.believe the weekend's polls, because Labour should be storming ahead. I

:08:30. > :08:32.do not want to get into the personality stuff about Miliband,

:08:33. > :08:37.but one reason why they are not is because people realised it was going

:08:38. > :08:40.to be really tough, they have supported what the Government is

:08:41. > :08:44.doing in taking those really difficult decisions, and they know

:08:45. > :08:48.they are going to have some pain, but they will slowly begin to see

:08:49. > :08:53.the fruits of it. If I may say so, I think the real test is not whether

:08:54. > :08:56.you as an individual are better off in 2015, it is whether the prospects

:08:57. > :09:02.for your children and your grandchildren are better than they

:09:03. > :09:07.were in 2010. That is what I find on the doorstep. I think people get

:09:08. > :09:10.that. There are senior figures in the shadow cabinet who have been

:09:11. > :09:14.saying to Ed Miliband, enough already, you are right about living

:09:15. > :09:18.standards, but stop banging on about just that. There is real pressure

:09:19. > :09:23.within the party for him to have more of an offer about the future.

:09:24. > :09:27.But politicians always have to make the calculation, particularly

:09:28. > :09:30.opposition politicians, that when we are bored, the political classes,

:09:31. > :09:35.the public may be only just about to hear something for the first time.

:09:36. > :09:38.And I think for the moment, he will be thinking, this is still working

:09:39. > :09:44.for me. And also, we forget, there is effectively an extra year, we

:09:45. > :09:50.have five years till the election, we are still more than a year away.

:09:51. > :09:54.So there is a fidgeting as amongst politicians and journalists around

:09:55. > :09:58.Westminster, who by this kind of time would be expecting to write

:09:59. > :10:03.stories about, when is the Prime Minister going to call the election,

:10:04. > :10:07.what are the campaign topics? But it is still quite a long way away. So,

:10:08. > :10:12.I think this argument is going on behind the scenes in the Labour

:10:13. > :10:16.Party. Is there a danger that this sounds like a one trick pony? Do

:10:17. > :10:20.they have two talk more about the future? The phrase from Chuka

:10:21. > :10:28.Umunna, which he has tried to get up and running, and troubled a little

:10:29. > :10:32.bit, I think, about Agenda 2030. Is that an attempt to have a Labour

:10:33. > :10:38.answer? The debate behind the scenes is, when is it right to switch to

:10:39. > :10:42.start that move? I do not think it is one or the other. I think it is

:10:43. > :10:45.both. What we need is an economy which delivers for working people,

:10:46. > :10:51.and our argument about this current recovery is that it is fragile, and

:10:52. > :10:54.it is based on consumption. It is not based on better business

:10:55. > :11:01.investment, which has been very, very sluggish. Hold on, that is not

:11:02. > :11:05.true until the end of the year. It has picked up but it has been very,

:11:06. > :11:09.very sluggish. I understand that, but the problem for you is that

:11:10. > :11:15.every time you identify a weakness in this recovery, and you have a

:11:16. > :11:18.number of them, events have then conspired to put the weakness

:11:19. > :11:26.right. The recovery is now sustainable, nobody denies that.

:11:27. > :11:29.Everybody believes it will last through the election, and business

:11:30. > :11:38.investment is now clicking in, it rose by 8%, and it is thought that

:11:39. > :11:44.it will rise by another 8%. The cost of living crisis, as you call it, is

:11:45. > :11:47.one thing, but is there not the danger that a lot of people still

:11:48. > :11:54.blame you for the squeeze in living standards? I would remind and that

:11:55. > :12:00.in 2010, when she won her marginal seat, the economy was growing,

:12:01. > :12:04.unemployment was coming down. This is the problem, if you believed

:12:05. > :12:07.this, -- if people believe this, then you would not have these

:12:08. > :12:11.results in the polls. When you talk about the cost of living crisis,

:12:12. > :12:13.people think, hang on, I am not going to blame the Government for

:12:14. > :12:19.this, it reminds them of your failings. It throws up the fact that

:12:20. > :12:22.in reality, you guys do not have any credibility on the economy, which is

:12:23. > :12:25.the single most dominant factor, and actually, people do not know what

:12:26. > :12:31.you would do which would be different. I think the next election

:12:32. > :12:35.will be won or lost on what both parties will say about what they are

:12:36. > :12:40.going to do in the future on the economy. I think Chuka Umunna is

:12:41. > :12:43.right to speak about Agenda 2030. It is going to be about what we are

:12:44. > :12:50.promising for the future. Can we just establish that it is true that

:12:51. > :12:59.come the election next May, you will be fighting on living standards

:13:00. > :13:04.being lower than they were in 2010? No, you are wanting me to say that

:13:05. > :13:09.and admit that. That is what the OBR says, which is what you base your

:13:10. > :13:13.economic plans on. If I may, I do not know what it is kind to be like

:13:14. > :13:17.then. But I do not think it is as simple as that. One of the biggest

:13:18. > :13:22.drivers I am finding is that it is not just about me here now today,

:13:23. > :13:26.and that was the power of the deficit, was that people understood

:13:27. > :13:30.that those who would suffer as a result of the mess that Labour made

:13:31. > :13:36.of the economy was actually our children and grandchildren. Final

:13:37. > :13:40.thought? Not connected but worth noting, the Prime Minister, who had

:13:41. > :13:43.talked about amending the law on hunting in order to allow farmers to

:13:44. > :13:47.get packs of dogs in, now says he has not got government support,

:13:48. > :13:52.which is code for, the Lib Dems will not wear it. It is just not

:13:53. > :13:59.necessary. We have got other important things to do. We look

:14:00. > :14:05.forward to seeing how PMQs appears on the Ten O'Clock News tonight. And

:14:06. > :14:10.I shall be doing the debate. Will you not be watching the football?!

:14:11. > :14:13.More importantly, I shall be looking at how the Ten O'Clock News watches

:14:14. > :14:21.events in the Max Clifford trial today. I will be interested in how

:14:22. > :14:26.the Ten O'Clock News covers it. That is all I am saying. Next, what

:14:27. > :14:29.happens when you give a packet of cornflakes a good shake costume in

:14:30. > :14:37.the words of the Mayor of London, it will be easier for some cornflakes

:14:38. > :14:42.to get to the top. Not a revelation, but Boris's comments last year

:14:43. > :14:47.caused a stir, because he was talking about IQ, and allowing the

:14:48. > :14:50.brightest to be able to flourish, particularly in relation to grammar

:14:51. > :14:53.schools. He went on to say that differing IQ levels in the

:14:54. > :14:56.population are "surely relevant to a conversation about equality". So are

:14:57. > :14:59.we condemned by our genes to success or failure? In our soapbox this

:15:00. > :15:27.week, the geneticist Professor Steve Jones gives his take.

:15:28. > :15:36.When I was 11, I was given a genetic test. It was 1955 and this, the

:15:37. > :15:43.double helix, had only been discovered two years earlier. In

:15:44. > :15:47.fact, the idea came from the 1944 education act which set up the 11

:15:48. > :15:51.plus examination. It was based on the idea there was a pool of natural

:15:52. > :15:58.talent in British children was being missed. They did not have DNA

:15:59. > :16:04.sequencing machines but they had tests which they thought would do

:16:05. > :16:09.the job. Find the odd word out. Firm, rough, solid, hard. Complex

:16:10. > :16:19.shapes to move around, difficult sums. In fact, the idea goes back to

:16:20. > :16:23.Charles Darwin's cousin, who in 1869 wrote a book called him Redditch

:16:24. > :16:32.re-genius which said more the same thing about intellectualism and even

:16:33. > :16:37.about wrestling. Boris Johnson today thinks most differences in

:16:38. > :16:41.intellectual levels are inborn. In his words, the harder you shake the

:16:42. > :16:49.pack, the easier it will be for some complex to get to the top. That is

:16:50. > :16:52.based on a deep misunderstanding of genetics. It is about the

:16:53. > :16:56.interaction between nature and nurture which is more subtle than it

:16:57. > :17:01.seems. Education policy has no need to bow down to the merciless treat

:17:02. > :17:04.of genetics, because, however important DNA might be,

:17:05. > :17:10.environmental factors such as teachers are always involved. Any

:17:11. > :17:13.plant breeder wanting to identify the best genes always keeps the

:17:14. > :17:22.subject in exactly the same environment. British schools

:17:23. > :17:27.certainly cannot do that. Steve Jones joins us now. This is

:17:28. > :17:35.fascinating. Which is more important? They always work

:17:36. > :17:42.together. The irony is, the more you understand about nature, DNA, the

:17:43. > :17:47.more important nurture, the environment, seems to be. People get

:17:48. > :17:54.worked up about IQ and it is certainly heritable. Nobody really

:17:55. > :17:59.cares about height but it is highly inherited. About 80% of the

:18:00. > :18:03.variation in a population is genetic. But the average height of

:18:04. > :18:08.children has gone up three inches since the Second World War. That is

:18:09. > :18:11.the environment. The average height of privately educated children is

:18:12. > :18:20.more than that of state educated children. That is not genetic. Is it

:18:21. > :18:24.overstated? A former adviser to the Education Secretary said it is all

:18:25. > :18:27.about genetics, it is the ITU take from your intelligent or not

:18:28. > :18:39.intelligent parents that really counts. -- the IQ you take. Many

:18:40. > :18:46.people would certainly think that. One of the most strongly inherited

:18:47. > :18:49.attributes is bank balance. To go to a really good school like eating you

:18:50. > :18:56.don't just have to be clever, your parents have to be rich. I went to a

:18:57. > :19:01.perfectly reasonable state grammar school. My brother failed that exam

:19:02. > :19:08.and went to a secondary modern and went to a bricklayer. Would you

:19:09. > :19:13.agree with Boris Johnson we should reintroduce grammar schools to allow

:19:14. > :19:17.the most intelligent to thrive? No. I don't think the grammar school

:19:18. > :19:22.system worked particularly well. The comment you made about, Nvidia says

:19:23. > :19:29.bring back their secondary moderns is very important. I spent most of

:19:30. > :19:34.my school in a comprehensive and it was not a particularly good one. I

:19:35. > :19:41.had a good time and I was lucky. I managed to get to a big university.

:19:42. > :19:48.That was in the past. We talk too much about the past rather than what

:19:49. > :19:54.is happening now. I look at the way abroad are my own children and what

:19:55. > :20:01.I've expected of them. -- the way I've brought up my own children. I

:20:02. > :20:08.just want them to maximise their potential, do the best they can. It

:20:09. > :20:13.fascinates me that children change. I don't want to talk too much about

:20:14. > :20:18.my own daughters, but we all have experiences in our lives of people

:20:19. > :20:23.who did not pass the 11 plus or were not in a certain place, and by the

:20:24. > :20:28.time they get to 14, they can be different. Or people who were stars

:20:29. > :20:34.at 11 burn out and buy a levels they are not in the same place. I don't

:20:35. > :20:54.know if there is a period back to a theory on that. -- a theory on that.

:20:55. > :21:00.When you are 11 and you didn't pass and you went to secondary modern, I

:21:01. > :21:07.think these are pretty awful terms. There were many who were then almost

:21:08. > :21:11.condemned to that. But the bank balance is important. And without

:21:12. > :21:17.that, many in your party feel the hidden pool is not being discovered.

:21:18. > :21:26.I do agree with that. I think the many years the banks have determined

:21:27. > :21:30.how well people do. I was lucky enough to get into Oxford. I was at

:21:31. > :21:34.a state school. Most of the people I knew at Oxford did not go to state

:21:35. > :21:40.school. They are totally overrepresented. One of my best

:21:41. > :21:44.friends said to me that what her private school taught her with

:21:45. > :21:48.intellectual confidence. It is a great shame that state school kids

:21:49. > :21:56.are still so underrepresented at the best universities. What is the cause

:21:57. > :21:59.that not enough state school pupils are competing against the much

:22:00. > :22:05.smaller percentage of pupils at private and public schools? I don't

:22:06. > :22:08.think many state schools know how to prepare their kids for the

:22:09. > :22:11.interviews. I think the private schools most have a separate

:22:12. > :22:18.industry going on to prepare their kids. I think we need qualified

:22:19. > :22:28.teachers in our classrooms, we need to attach -- attract the brightest

:22:29. > :22:35.and best. You guys had 13 years to sort that out. In four years, we

:22:36. > :22:41.made huge strides. I think you are letting unqualified teachers in the

:22:42. > :22:45.classroom which is the wrong thing. If you come to constituencies like

:22:46. > :22:48.mine and see the huge progress being made... I took Michael Gove to a

:22:49. > :22:53.school in my constituency and it still blows me away. The real

:22:54. > :22:58.progress they've made is because they are able to become an academy.

:22:59. > :23:05.It has put teachers in charge. We will have to leave it there. We have

:23:06. > :23:13.a clip that you might remember. Have a look at this. Honestly, you lot.

:23:14. > :23:19.What are you putting into your body is? Let me show you. Come on. This

:23:20. > :23:29.is the amount of fat in that whole pizza. There are 17 cubes of sugar

:23:30. > :23:43.in that drink. It could lead to heart disease, type two diabetes and

:23:44. > :23:50.cancer. Let's get food smart. Anna, what are your aims? It is to educate

:23:51. > :23:53.people. Make people aware of some of the things that are in their food

:23:54. > :23:59.that are not necessarily good the user that people can make better

:24:00. > :24:03.choices. That was our Guest of the Day, Anna

:24:04. > :24:06.Soubry, on the programme last year when she was a public health

:24:07. > :24:08.minister, launching the government's healthy eating campaign Food Smart.

:24:09. > :24:11.Now, though ministers in the Department of Agriculture have

:24:12. > :24:13.branded the Department for Health campaign "unbelievably stupid" for

:24:14. > :24:17.undermining home grown producers of dairy products by encouraging people

:24:18. > :24:20.to swap cheese in their diet for alternatives which are lower in

:24:21. > :24:26.saturated fat. A fridge magnet produced by the campaign reads:

:24:27. > :24:30."Reduced fat cheese, if you please." Well, you'll be glad to hear that we

:24:31. > :24:33.have not been scared off by that warning on this programme. Joining

:24:34. > :24:42.us is the artisan cheesemaker Tim Jones. And his cheese, Lincolnshire

:24:43. > :24:47.Poacher. These cheeses are delicious and varied. As part of a balanced

:24:48. > :24:55.diet, they would be good for anybody. That is the important part.

:24:56. > :25:03.You told us not to be this stuff. No, I didn't. The campaign says,

:25:04. > :25:10.leave off-the-shelf butter, cream, cheese, full fat milk. I didn't say

:25:11. > :25:17.that. We want people to eat a healthy, balanced diet. We don't say

:25:18. > :25:21.you must not do this. What we're giving people is information. Let's

:25:22. > :25:25.get real about this. This campaign is because we have a serious problem

:25:26. > :25:29.in our country with overweight people. A third of our children

:25:30. > :25:37.leave primary school overweight or obese. We need to redress that. My

:25:38. > :25:40.point is, your advice may be wrong, because the campaign leaflet says

:25:41. > :25:46.you should leave butter, cream, cheddar cheese, full fat milk and

:25:47. > :25:49.ice cream on the shelf. Earlier this month, Cambridge University

:25:50. > :25:56.researchers said giving up butter or fatty meat is unlikely to improve

:25:57. > :26:02.health. That is a recent binding. So your advice could be wrong. Of

:26:03. > :26:07.course it could be wrong. There is still a real debate about it. But

:26:08. > :26:15.the one thing you cannot deny is we have a problem with overweight. So

:26:16. > :26:19.the government has the duty to help people to make educated choices. The

:26:20. > :26:32.government does not have a duty to give wrong advice. You recommended

:26:33. > :26:42.reduced back -- that Greek yoghurt. Every time you see reduced VAT,

:26:43. > :26:48.there is more sugar. No should -- not always. The government has put

:26:49. > :26:53.labelling so we give people real information about sugar and salt. It

:26:54. > :26:58.is a great shame to include cheese in this group of products. Cheese is

:26:59. > :27:02.such a nutritious product. It is good the people and children, for

:27:03. > :27:07.their bones and teeth. When you compare it to the other products you

:27:08. > :27:15.are talking about, they are completely different animals. We

:27:16. > :27:18.mustn't get sidetracked by that. When I was the Minister for Public

:27:19. > :27:27.health, and I do have two advice on the advice of my officials, but I

:27:28. > :27:32.met with the cheese industry. You use salt and some people who are

:27:33. > :27:36.keen to reduce salt said, therefore we need to attack cheese. But if you

:27:37. > :27:42.are making cheese you will have a higher level of salt. What do you

:27:43. > :27:47.make of the official advice, we should reduce full fat cheese for

:27:48. > :27:52.reduced fat? I think it is a sad world. I think if we had a lifeless

:27:53. > :27:55.block of half fat cheddar sitting on a plate it would pale into

:27:56. > :27:59.insignificance compared to the cheese we have. I personally would

:28:00. > :28:04.not want to eat it. I'd rather not eat it than have a small amount of a

:28:05. > :28:08.delicious cheese. I don't either and I suspect a lot of people watching

:28:09. > :28:14.this programme agreed. But we're talking about people who are

:28:15. > :28:21.overweight and abuse. Don't eat Artisan cheeses necessarily in small

:28:22. > :28:29.amounts. Don't you think the debate has gone back to sugar? It should go

:28:30. > :28:36.to sugar. There's just time before we go to find out the answer to

:28:37. > :28:51.Guess the Year. Anna, hit that button. It was 1972. We'll be back

:28:52. > :28:55.tomorrow.