:01:04. > :01:11.Is the spare room tax working? Ever heard of Left Unity? They want to
:01:12. > :01:17.unite the left and do what UKIP has done for British politics. And these
:01:18. > :01:22.days you are more likely to find journalists and politicians sipping
:01:23. > :01:28.mineral water than Muscadet. We ask whatever happened to the boozy
:01:29. > :01:35.Westminster lunch? All that in the next hour and with us are two of
:01:36. > :01:41.Westminster's most thirsty journalists. Tom Shipman is about to
:01:42. > :01:45.move to the Sunday Times. His diary will be even more chock-a-block with
:01:46. > :01:50.expensive lunches. Helen Lewis has to keep coming on because the New
:01:51. > :01:56.Statesman's expenses are so stingy so she comes into the BBC to heat up
:01:57. > :02:13.her seat in the microwave. First, the Conservative part of the
:02:14. > :02:20.Government treaty must protect the interests of non-Eurozone member
:02:21. > :02:26.states. That is one of Mr Cameron's key demands as he tries to
:02:27. > :02:31.renegotiate our relationship with the EU head office planned
:02:32. > :02:36.referendum in 2017. In Europe Germany is the powerful friend
:02:37. > :02:42.everybody wants on their side. He has got the Germans on his site a
:02:43. > :02:49.little bit? It is a good point for them. It is one of the most boring
:02:50. > :02:54.pieces or prose I have ever read. But it is in the Financial Times?
:02:55. > :02:58.But it does not get anywhere near far enough what the Tory
:02:59. > :03:05.backbenchers want. It is a nice concession, but it is nowhere near
:03:06. > :03:08.to appeasing the centre ground. Wolfgang Schauble has been speaking
:03:09. > :03:13.elsewhere saying that treaty change will come back onto the agenda and
:03:14. > :03:18.that is a way for the Tories to get through to say, we are not on our
:03:19. > :03:24.own, if there is to be treaty change, we want it to suit us.
:03:25. > :03:28.Loo-mac and when Angela Merkel came over here a few weeks ago, the
:03:29. > :03:34.Tories hoped she would talk about treaty change because that gives
:03:35. > :03:37.David Cameron his opening. It is interesting Wolfgang Schauble has
:03:38. > :03:39.gone a bit further and you have linked the need to protect
:03:40. > :03:45.non-Eurozone countries with a treaty. They have now been brought
:03:46. > :03:54.together. There is a huge flaw in this.
:03:55. > :03:59.Francois Hollande once treaty change. He has lost badly to the
:04:00. > :04:02.National Front and that the mainstream parties of the right in
:04:03. > :04:08.the local elections. Second round on Sunday. Last time it split the
:04:09. > :04:15.Socialist party down the middle, the election on the Lisbon Treaty. He
:04:16. > :04:20.will not want treaty change. The Financial Times made it clear. It is
:04:21. > :04:26.in everyone's interests to keep kicking treaty change down the road.
:04:27. > :04:30.I think that is a very fair point. Otherwise, our relations with
:04:31. > :04:35.Germany would not be very good. We dissed Francois Hollande pretty
:04:36. > :04:42.badly when he came over here and he got a rubbish pub lunch. He has been
:04:43. > :04:51.pretty rude to us. What is wrong with a pub lunch? Nothing wrong with
:04:52. > :04:55.it. We are going to need the Eastern Europeans to agree to treaty change
:04:56. > :05:00.as well. David Davies said earlier this week in a public meeting I was
:05:01. > :05:04.chairing that he thought David Cameron would get almost nothing by
:05:05. > :05:08.way of repatriation of powers. But he would still go for a referendum
:05:09. > :05:13.and he would still argue to stay in and that he would lose the
:05:14. > :05:16.referendum and we would come out. I think it is a possibility. A lot of
:05:17. > :05:21.people did not think David Cameron would use the veto and he did. It is
:05:22. > :05:24.possible to see him going and are not getting what he wants. I think
:05:25. > :05:27.most people at the top of the Conservative Party do not expect
:05:28. > :05:35.that to happen. It is happening too early. The back pensions will say,
:05:36. > :05:50.thank you -- the back benches. Some are insatiable. 70 of the 100 who
:05:51. > :05:54.signed the letter the other day, Michael Gove surprise the nation
:05:55. > :05:59.earlier this week by outing himself as a rather unlikely fan of rap
:06:00. > :06:02.music. Yesterday a group of schoolchildren at a BBC event
:06:03. > :06:12.helpfully asked him about his favourite rapper. Who did he pick us
:06:13. > :06:19.up was it LL Cool J? Biggie? Chuck D? Wham? At the end of the show, Tim
:06:20. > :06:27.and Helen will give us a correct answer. Have you got any idea? Very
:06:28. > :06:31.confident. Who do you trust most to run the economy. It is a crucial
:06:32. > :06:36.issue at any election and probably in this one even more so when the
:06:37. > :06:41.country is beginning to recover from what was a very long and very deep
:06:42. > :06:45.recession. The daily politics has been working with a polling firm on
:06:46. > :06:48.a new kind of survey that looks at motors in terms of their values as
:06:49. > :06:52.well as things like what they earn and where they live under the usual
:06:53. > :06:56.social class indicators. We will give you the results in a moment.
:06:57. > :07:00.First, Adam will explain how it works.
:07:01. > :07:05.The polling firm has divided the country into six types of political
:07:06. > :07:09.personality. Voters in Worcester found out what category they are in
:07:10. > :07:15.bike using an online quiz. There is optimistic contentment. People doing
:07:16. > :07:20.OK. Then there is comfortable style Joe, those who are unhappy with
:07:21. > :07:29.Britain. -- comfortable nostalgia. Another group feel less secure, hard
:07:30. > :07:34.pressed anxiety. I am hard pressed. Long-term despair, those who are
:07:35. > :07:39.really struggling. What about the cosmopolitan critics? Idealists.
:07:40. > :07:44.Quite often working in the media. One group of voters we have not come
:07:45. > :07:49.across, the people who show calm persistence, they hope things get
:07:50. > :07:52.better but do not expect them to. They are coping rather than
:07:53. > :07:57.comfortable. Presumably they are all out of work. How the party's
:07:58. > :07:59.messages go down with these groups is really important because the
:08:00. > :08:05.pollsters recognises, nations of these political tribes that decide
:08:06. > :08:10.elections app the pollsters reckon it is combinations.
:08:11. > :08:14.Let us look at some of the main findings of the survey. It has come
:08:15. > :08:22.in hot off the press in the last hour. The respondents were asked who
:08:23. > :08:30.they trust most to run the economy. 58 cents said they trusted the
:08:31. > :08:34.Conservatives the most -- 58%. Next respondents were asked to pick the
:08:35. > :08:39.three words or phrases that best describe each party leader. David
:08:40. > :08:44.Cameron, out of touch, arrogant and does not listen. Labour leader Ed
:08:45. > :08:49.Miliband, the top picks were out of his depth, weak and out of touch.
:08:50. > :08:56.Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg does not fare any better. The words that best
:08:57. > :09:02.describe him, week, out of his depth and out of touch. The words or
:09:03. > :09:06.phrases that described UKIP leader Nigel Farage was stand up for
:09:07. > :09:14.Britain, weird, arrogant. We are joined by Laurence Stellings
:09:15. > :09:21.from the firm. First, let us put aside the polling on the economy. It
:09:22. > :09:25.is a kind of sign of a political class on the left and right that is
:09:26. > :09:32.not connecting with the people. It is exactly what you would expect to
:09:33. > :09:39.see. David Cameron, posh and out of touch. My favourite finding has got
:09:40. > :09:47.to be Nigel Farage. You have to be weird to stand up for Britain. The
:09:48. > :09:50.out of touch one is a huge problem. There is such a feeling on the left
:09:51. > :09:58.and right that politicians do not live like normal people. It is
:09:59. > :10:03.indicative that none of the leaders has any great appeal for what we
:10:04. > :10:07.used to call me aspiring working classes and the ambitious
:10:08. > :10:11.lower-middle-class is. The people who determine election results in
:10:12. > :10:15.this country. Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair got them by the shed
:10:16. > :10:20.load. From this poll, you can see none of the main three party leaders
:10:21. > :10:34.have much appeal. Staggering. The top performer is Ed Miliband on
:10:35. > :10:42.shares my values. It is a triumph that Ed Miliband is considered less
:10:43. > :10:51.weird than Nigel Farage. The best performer of principled is Cameron.
:10:52. > :10:57.Nigel Farage's selling point I thought was one of the lads. Have a
:10:58. > :11:02.pint of beer, like ordinary people. What the political class will not
:11:03. > :11:07.do. Iowa's thought it was a very clever trick he played. His
:11:08. > :11:12.background is very privileged -- I always thought. He is not living in
:11:13. > :11:17.the way most people live. He managed to project an authentic character.
:11:18. > :11:23.What happened was the veered slightly into the slightly sweaty
:11:24. > :11:28.sector in the debate. He pulled it back well. Equally well, Nick Clegg
:11:29. > :11:32.also veered into slightly patronising at the start and pulled
:11:33. > :11:37.himself back. There will be a real test of the Nigel Farage persona
:11:38. > :11:42.over the next couple of months. Is this evidence of the political class
:11:43. > :11:46.on the left and right that is increasingly out of touch with
:11:47. > :11:53.voters? There is a general sense that it is a difficult time for the
:11:54. > :11:56.country and none of the parties have offered solutions that people would
:11:57. > :12:02.hope for. Having a coalition takes one of the parties out. One less
:12:03. > :12:07.choice if you want to oppose the government. Although Nigel Farage is
:12:08. > :12:15.described as weird, standing up for Britain is not a bad plus to have if
:12:16. > :12:19.you are a politician. Not at all. But it goes hand-in-hand with weird.
:12:20. > :12:25.20 years of his life IT again something that for many voters is a
:12:26. > :12:33.very minor issue -- fighting against something. It makes him slightly
:12:34. > :12:37.weird. Are these public impressions, do you think they are
:12:38. > :12:42.now embedded, there is nothing they can do this side of the election to
:12:43. > :12:46.change them? Could they change perception? There is still time.
:12:47. > :12:51.Some are embedded. David Cameron has long been seen as slightly smug, out
:12:52. > :12:55.of touch. He is also seen as competent and a good leader. There
:12:56. > :13:02.is a year until the election. In the last few weeks since the budget, the
:13:03. > :13:08.headline voting has closed a little. You saw Adam talk about the system
:13:09. > :13:12.you use of the segmentation of society of voters into various
:13:13. > :13:17.categories. What does it tell us? We macro it gives more detail -- it
:13:18. > :13:23.gives more detail. On the economy, among the calm persistence group,
:13:24. > :13:28.they are slightly more positive towards the Conservatives than
:13:29. > :13:32.Labour. On one of the major issues, among swing voters, the
:13:33. > :13:35.Conservatives have a slight lead. It is a pretty long-term trend. The
:13:36. > :13:39.Conservatives over the last several years have had a lead over Labour
:13:40. > :13:50.when it comes to macroeconomic issues. If 58 trust Cameron and
:13:51. > :13:58.Osborne against 42, you have taken out the don't knows as to not we
:13:59. > :14:04.macro you force people to make a decision -- you force people to make
:14:05. > :14:10.a decision. 58% trust Mr Cameron and Osborne on the economy versus 42%
:14:11. > :14:15.for the Labour Party. That is the finding they will take most comfort
:14:16. > :14:21.from. They want to frame the election about the economy. Two
:14:22. > :14:24.thirds of Lib Dem voters also think the Conservatives are better. In the
:14:25. > :14:31.swing areas where if let Clegg will suffer, where will the votes go? It
:14:32. > :14:38.looks like it will benefit... If you are a loyal live them, you are going
:14:39. > :14:42.to say that with the coalition. A lot of them will still be calling
:14:43. > :14:45.themselves Lib Dem voters and they will feel that the Lib Dems made a
:14:46. > :14:50.sacrifice for the benefit of the economy. The leftish voters will
:14:51. > :14:56.have already gone and they will be on the Labour side. I guess it is
:14:57. > :15:01.going to be quite hard. If the recovery is gathering pace as it
:15:02. > :15:04.seems to between now and the election campaign, changing
:15:05. > :15:11.perceptions on the economy will be tough for Labour. Yes. Labour have a
:15:12. > :15:15.lead when it comes to the cost of living crisis. They need to
:15:16. > :15:18.translate that to the macro economy. For the Conservatives and
:15:19. > :15:21.Lib Dems, they have brought recovery to the country and people feeling
:15:22. > :15:29.that, but will you reward them with your vote? Are enough people feeling
:15:30. > :15:35.the recovery? Outside of London, there is still a sense that the
:15:36. > :15:43.recovery is in the south-east. That is the thing to watch this year.
:15:44. > :15:46.Now, call it what you want, the spare room subsidy, the bedroom tax,
:15:47. > :15:49.it is one of the coalition's highest profile welfare reforms even if it
:15:50. > :15:53.is relatively small beer financially. It is designed to make
:15:54. > :15:57.sure the state is not subsidising people to have homes bigger than
:15:58. > :16:00.they need and it has been up and running for nearly a year. The BBC
:16:01. > :16:03.has carried out research among councils and housing associations
:16:04. > :16:06.across Great Britain to see how it is working and our social affairs
:16:07. > :16:15.correspondent Michael Buchanan can tell us more. One of the main aims
:16:16. > :16:21.of the policy was to free up social housing, to get single occupancy and
:16:22. > :16:27.get these houses into the market so bigger families could take them.
:16:28. > :16:32.What does the survey say? It is proving a lot more difficult than
:16:33. > :16:37.the Government hoped. We got data from 80% of councils in Scotland,
:16:38. > :16:42.England and Wales that have housing stock. That showed us that 6% of
:16:43. > :16:47.tenants who have been affected by this benefit cut have moved in the
:16:48. > :16:52.past year. What that means is there are still a lot of people who would
:16:53. > :16:58.like to downsize. We spoke to a lot of them who cannot find the
:16:59. > :17:01.properties. In other cases it means people who are living in overcrowded
:17:02. > :17:06.accommodation have been unable to find those bigger properties they
:17:07. > :17:12.thought they would be able to move into. It is interesting how it has
:17:13. > :17:17.changed around the country. We spoke to a woman in Hull who downsized
:17:18. > :17:22.from a three-bedroom flat to a one-bedroom flat. That would open up
:17:23. > :17:26.a three bedroomed house for a family to move into and the housing
:17:27. > :17:32.association could not let it out. There was no demand for larger
:17:33. > :17:35.properties. Controversy down in Wiltshire, a rural part of the
:17:36. > :17:40.country, they have got lots of people who are under occupying their
:17:41. > :17:43.properties, but the council say they are not going to build one-bedroom
:17:44. > :17:49.properties. They want to build communities. The other purpose of
:17:50. > :17:56.the reform was to cut the welfare bill. What is the evidence of that?
:17:57. > :18:01.Because most people are staying and paying towards their own rent and
:18:02. > :18:06.because the number of people who are moving into different sized
:18:07. > :18:12.accommodation is quite small, it looks as though the Government is
:18:13. > :18:15.probably, according to the experts, probably on track to get close to
:18:16. > :18:20.the savings they predicted they would make, ?490 million over the
:18:21. > :18:27.course of a year. But what is happening in some cases is what was
:18:28. > :18:34.an essential cost is becoming a local Government housing association
:18:35. > :18:39.cost. We found 28% of people affected by this benefit cut have
:18:40. > :18:43.fallen into arrears for the first time. People who were debt free when
:18:44. > :18:49.the policy came in. The Government will say they have given ?180
:18:50. > :18:54.million in emergency funding to councils to help the most vulnerable
:18:55. > :18:58.tenants. But we also discovered millions of pounds of that money is
:18:59. > :19:03.going to be handed back to the Treasury because the councils have
:19:04. > :19:07.not spent it. Thank you for marking our card on that BBC survey.
:19:08. > :19:10.Listening to that was the Shadow Employment Minister Stephen Timms
:19:11. > :19:19.and from our studio in Tunbridge Wells is the Conservative MP Charlie
:19:20. > :19:23.Elphicke. Charlie Elphicke, let me come to you first. One of the
:19:24. > :19:29.reasons for implementing the policy was to free up the housing stock.
:19:30. > :19:36.From our survey only 6% have relocated. It is not a huge number.
:19:37. > :19:41.50,000 people have moved, so it shows things are moving in the right
:19:42. > :19:44.direction. But the other issue is people can get into work and there
:19:45. > :19:51.are no swap websites which are coming into force. But if it is
:19:52. > :19:56.putting people into rent arrears, and if most people are staying put,
:19:57. > :20:00.if it is hard to see what the saving is, one wonders what all the fuss
:20:01. > :20:05.was about and why you bothered. There are substantial help funds
:20:06. > :20:12.available to help people who have difficulties, especially people with
:20:13. > :20:15.disability challenges. There are 300,000 people in overcrowding who
:20:16. > :20:20.need a large home and it is important we look after them and we
:20:21. > :20:26.look after taxpayers who spend a lot of money paying taxes, working
:20:27. > :20:31.hard, and they cannot afford a spare room. Why should they effectively
:20:32. > :20:37.subsidised bedrooms for people who are not in work. What do you say to
:20:38. > :20:43.Norman Tebbit, not known for being a soft touch when it comes to welfare,
:20:44. > :20:48.when he says I worry about what Labour calls the bedroom tax. So
:20:49. > :20:53.often a spare room is a vital part of the looking after of an elderly
:20:54. > :21:00.person, it enables relatives to come and carers to be there. What do you
:21:01. > :21:08.say to that? We have made provision for that. For people with disability
:21:09. > :21:13.issues there is a fund available. You could argue that since this
:21:14. > :21:18.policy has only been on the go for one year, already 6% of people have
:21:19. > :21:26.downsized, it is beginning to work. Loo-mac I do not think it is
:21:27. > :21:34.working. It is an unfair policy. 94% have not moved. But it is year one.
:21:35. > :21:39.We do not know where those 6% have gone too. Some of them will have
:21:40. > :21:43.gone into rented accommodation where the rent is higher and that will be
:21:44. > :21:48.paid by housing benefit. It is possible this policy will end up
:21:49. > :21:58.costing more overall than it has saved. What do you say to that? He
:21:59. > :22:02.makes a good point, Labour made a plea to change this accommodation.
:22:03. > :22:08.But it is hard to understand how they draw a distinction. 31,000
:22:09. > :22:14.people moving is quite a lot and quite a disruption for those who
:22:15. > :22:19.moved. And we do not know what has happened to the 30,000 properties
:22:20. > :22:23.and how many of them are empty? In South Liverpool they have had a 63%
:22:24. > :22:30.increase in the number of vacant three-bedroom properties. Do we have
:22:31. > :22:37.any evidence that these homes being vacated, because of downsizing, have
:22:38. > :22:42.we got any evidence larger families are moving into occupied these
:22:43. > :22:47.homes? I do not know the detail of that, but it is important in a
:22:48. > :22:50.matter of fairness that we make the welfare savings that need to be made
:22:51. > :22:56.because the Labour Party spent so much money and this will save ?1
:22:57. > :23:03.billion by the time of the next election, ?1 billion more for
:23:04. > :23:07.doctors and nurses. It is unfair to penalised people if there is nowhere
:23:08. > :23:11.smaller for them to move to. That is the problem with many places. That
:23:12. > :23:16.is why the number that has moved its so small. The Government has
:23:17. > :23:23.suddenly decided where they live is inappropriate for them. And Tory
:23:24. > :23:25.controlled Welch says they are not going to build one-bedroom houses
:23:26. > :23:32.because they think people do not want them. There is an issue about
:23:33. > :23:36.getting the right homes in the right places and there is an issue with
:23:37. > :23:40.overcrowding and they need larger accommodation and there are over 1
:23:41. > :23:46.million spare bedrooms up and down the land. Labour says if it wins
:23:47. > :23:52.this it is going to reverse this, but it also voted for the welfare
:23:53. > :23:55.cap. We are talking about half ?1 billion. Have you worked out how you
:23:56. > :24:02.would kill this but still stay within the welfare cap? Yes, we
:24:03. > :24:08.have. It may well be this policy will cost more than it saves. I
:24:09. > :24:14.understand that. But how would you pay for the half billion saving? We
:24:15. > :24:19.would abolish the tax break for hedge funds is, the funding for the
:24:20. > :24:26.shares for rights scheme and we would plug a loophole that allows
:24:27. > :24:30.employers to classify construction workers as self employed. That would
:24:31. > :24:36.pay for abolishing the bedroom tax. It should be abolished now and if it
:24:37. > :24:42.is not, the next Labour Government would abolish it. And that would
:24:43. > :24:50.keep you in the cap? Yes, it would. Are you sure? I think we could make
:24:51. > :24:55.the changes we have described. But some of these managers have already
:24:56. > :25:01.moved to Switzerland. We would need to follow what happens and make
:25:02. > :25:08.changes as things develop. You would just abolish it out right? Yes, we
:25:09. > :25:12.would. There is a case in applying attacks like this where there is
:25:13. > :25:16.somewhere smaller for an individual to move to. If there is not anywhere
:25:17. > :25:24.smaller, it is unfair to clobber them with a tax. Has this been worth
:25:25. > :25:30.the candle? Labour are making it up as they go along, naming this and
:25:31. > :25:35.that as public saving. They had a bank bonus tax they spent about ten
:25:36. > :25:41.times. Every time the Labour Party challenges us, it is more spending,
:25:42. > :25:50.more debt. How have the policy played out? It has been a disaster.
:25:51. > :25:55.Iain Duncan Smith had a great pitch. Universal welfare credit has been in
:25:56. > :26:00.trouble. All the other parties say they will try and fix it and make it
:26:01. > :26:05.work. With this they did not explain the problem. And unless you explain
:26:06. > :26:10.the problem to voters, it is not popular. They have got a problem
:26:11. > :26:14.with councils who would prefer to have this as a festering sore rather
:26:15. > :26:21.than cough up the money to help the people who need it. I cannot
:26:22. > :26:25.disagree with that or Norman Tebbit! I could not believe families with
:26:26. > :26:31.disabled people were not exempt from this. People who could not sleep in
:26:32. > :26:36.the same bed because somebody needed to be turned and needed a special
:26:37. > :26:43.mattress. Somebody with a child who needed oxygen canisters, all of
:26:44. > :26:47.those people felt under it. It has galvanised labour activists and SNP
:26:48. > :26:54.activists in Scotland. Let's leave it there. Who do you support if you
:26:55. > :26:58.disagree with the free market economy? How do you cast your vote
:26:59. > :27:01.if you think the main parties are all a bit too mainstream? It was an
:27:02. > :27:10.issue that the veteran left-wing film director Ken Loach addressed on
:27:11. > :27:14.Question Time in February last year. There are a lot of people in this
:27:15. > :27:19.country who share a lot of thoughts. They hate the break-up of the
:27:20. > :27:22.National Health Service, they hate the privatisations and the
:27:23. > :27:27.outsourcing and the labour agencies and the low wages. They hate the
:27:28. > :27:32.mass unemployment and there is not a broad movement, a broad party they
:27:33. > :27:38.can vote for. People spend a lot of time saying, who are we going to
:27:39. > :27:43.hold our nose and vote for? We need a broad movement on the left. UKIP
:27:44. > :27:53.has done it for the right. I disagree with almost everything UKIP
:27:54. > :27:58.stands for. But we need a broad movement of the left. And that
:27:59. > :28:01.appearance on the BBC by Ken Loach inspired left-wing activists to come
:28:02. > :28:05.together to try to form a new outfit, Left Unity. Here in the
:28:06. > :28:09.studio is the writer Salman Shaheen who is a member of Left Unity's
:28:10. > :28:18.national coordinating group. Welcome. Who is backing Left Unity
:28:19. > :28:23.apart from Ken Loach? Quite a number of the existing fire left groups are
:28:24. > :28:29.involved, but also a lot of disaffected Labour members are
:28:30. > :28:37.coming over to Left Unity. We have had one member every ten minutes
:28:38. > :28:41.joining up today. What is a lot? We have 1600 members. We founded our
:28:42. > :28:48.party on November the 30th last year. It is a couple of months in.
:28:49. > :28:54.To the left of the Labour Party you have already got the socialist
:28:55. > :28:56.platform, the Communist platform, the Socialist resistance. The
:28:57. > :29:01.Communist Party of Great Britain which is not to be confused with the
:29:02. > :29:08.other ones that run the morning Star, or not to be confused with the
:29:09. > :29:13.Communist Party of Britain. You have got the workers Power, the Alliance
:29:14. > :29:17.for liberty, which is also known as the Socialist organiser. Have I
:29:18. > :29:23.missed anyone out? They have all signed up to support Left Unity.
:29:24. > :29:32.Will they be at your conference? We will find out. But you must know.
:29:33. > :29:39.Left Unity is an individual member -based organisation. Some will have
:29:40. > :29:44.signed up, some will have not. It depends on whether policy wrangling
:29:45. > :29:48.details appeal to people like that. I appreciate the point of trying to
:29:49. > :29:53.get unity to the left of the Labour Party, but isn't the likelihood that
:29:54. > :30:00.you will add Left Unity to that list of other left-wing groups I have
:30:01. > :30:05.just read out? It is like life of Brian! That is a commonly used
:30:06. > :30:11.phrase. I have hung my head in the past over the inability of the left
:30:12. > :30:15.to get on. That we have a serious problem with austerity which is
:30:16. > :30:18.damaging the lives of the most vulnerable people in this country
:30:19. > :30:25.and Labour is not providing an effective opposition to that. Having
:30:26. > :30:30.followed some of these groups, your chances of unity based on recent
:30:31. > :30:35.history is close to zero. You have got to try, even if it is like
:30:36. > :30:39.banging your head against the wall. It is too important not to. It is
:30:40. > :30:45.important for democracy as well. If Labour is in the middle ground with
:30:46. > :30:49.the Tories and Lib Dems, there is no left-wing voice. The conference is
:30:50. > :30:56.in Manchester tomorrow. It was the last event you had was described as
:30:57. > :31:01.a bit of a shambles, quote. That was by one of your leading members on
:31:02. > :31:08.your own website. There were a lot of people there, 500 people, a lot
:31:09. > :31:12.of views coming together. Or not coming together. They did come
:31:13. > :31:15.together because we agreed a founding statement. We are trying to
:31:16. > :31:20.do something which has not been done on the left before. A bottom-up
:31:21. > :31:26.grassroots democratic organisation. If democracy is messy, it has got to
:31:27. > :31:32.be done. You have not decided on a policy over whether Britain should
:31:33. > :31:40.be in the EU. It will be decided. You have 66 pages of motions in six
:31:41. > :31:45.hours. That is right. I have not even read them all myself. It will
:31:46. > :31:48.be a tough day. We have another conference coming up in June to
:31:49. > :31:53.handle the rest of our policy. It is a very long process. The Labour
:31:54. > :31:59.Party took a very long time to form and learn and get to where it is
:32:00. > :32:03.today. We need to be very careful that all people's views are
:32:04. > :32:13.represented and that it is not a top-down bureaucratic state up. --
:32:14. > :32:21.stitch up. One of the motions but is to disband in the British Army and
:32:22. > :32:25.arm the people -- bottom-up. I will be voting against that and I do not
:32:26. > :32:31.suspect it will pass. April have the right to bear arms and defend
:32:32. > :32:36.themselves. -- people have the right. I disagree with the motion.
:32:37. > :32:45.Do you think it will get through? No. The majority of Left Unity
:32:46. > :32:50.members are disaffected ex-Labour Party members who are in favour of a
:32:51. > :32:53.broad church left-wing party. Does it mean you do not regard yourself
:32:54. > :33:03.as quite as left as the Communist Party of Great Britain? I do not
:33:04. > :33:18.consider myself quite as left. Their members are members -- of left
:33:19. > :33:22.unity. All political parties have... Would you like them to leave
:33:23. > :33:27.these groups and come and join you? They are members of their groups.
:33:28. > :33:33.They are also members of Left Unity. It does not mean you have to leave
:33:34. > :33:36.your existing party. You are all welcome and the church. I get the
:33:37. > :33:44.feeling you are on the moderate wing. I am. The UKIP manifesto has
:33:45. > :33:50.restoring the Circle line to be a circle. It is not by any means...
:33:51. > :33:57.This is simply a motion, not their policy. It is funny when we make the
:33:58. > :34:01.comparison with UKIP because what they have done is that they might
:34:02. > :34:07.deliver the next election for the Labour Party. Is your aspiration to
:34:08. > :34:10.run candidates against Labour Party candidates or do you want to see
:34:11. > :34:17.yourself more as a pressure group? It is both. We have not decided when
:34:18. > :34:20.we will stand in elections but we are intending to stand. We will
:34:21. > :34:29.inevitably be running against an Labour Cabinet. -- candidates. The
:34:30. > :34:33.13 Labour MPs who voted against the welfare cap, I think they did a
:34:34. > :34:38.fantastic job and they should be applauded for doing what they were
:34:39. > :34:42.elected to do. You are not putting up candidates in the European
:34:43. > :34:49.elections question mark we have only just started. The Green Party had
:34:50. > :34:56.their candidates in place two years before the elections. Have you
:34:57. > :35:02.invited Diane Abbott? No, we have not. She was one of the 13. She is
:35:03. > :35:08.in labour and we are a party outside of labour. Why don't you join the
:35:09. > :35:13.Labour Party and try to get it to move to what you would like it to
:35:14. > :35:18.be? Wouldn't that be more effective? Some people take that view. The late
:35:19. > :35:23.great Tony Benn took that view. I have a lot of time for such
:35:24. > :35:29.opinions. But it seems to me that they are shouting into the wind. The
:35:30. > :35:34.Labour Party have been dominated by a very centre-right almost agenda
:35:35. > :35:37.for a very long time. It has signed up to Conservative spending plans
:35:38. > :35:41.and if people support Labour, if they vote Labour, what they will get
:35:42. > :35:46.is a government that is not so radically different from the Tories.
:35:47. > :35:53.Voters need a choice. Some of the other groups might be wanting to
:35:54. > :35:59.make what you do a thankless task. They can be tribal. I hope we can
:36:00. > :36:02.get along together in a spirit of unity. Sounds like we will end up
:36:03. > :36:07.with disunity tomorrow. Two things are interesting. If we get a couple
:36:08. > :36:14.of more hung parliaments, we will see more of this thing, frat drink
:36:15. > :36:18.from the main political parties. -- fracturing. We have a full party
:36:19. > :36:25.system in England now. Not just in Scotland, Wales and Northern
:36:26. > :36:28.Ireland. There is now someone making a case against austerity. The
:36:29. > :36:31.difference between Labour and the Tories, there has been a conspiracy
:36:32. > :36:38.between George Osborne and Ed Balls. They are arguing about a very
:36:39. > :36:43.small amount of money. Green Party supporters say, why don't we get the
:36:44. > :36:47.exposure UKIP got? They have got an MP. They are not seen as being
:36:48. > :36:53.someone who is taking votes from Labour like UKIP. If there is a kind
:36:54. > :36:56.of left of Labour Party that is deemed to be taking away from
:36:57. > :37:00.Labour, that will make it more interesting to the media. What is
:37:01. > :37:06.the biggest thing you hope to achieve tomorrow? I want us to begin
:37:07. > :37:11.our road to the manifesto and agree very strong clear anti-austerity
:37:12. > :37:17.policies and defending the NHS and repealing the bedroom tax and
:37:18. > :37:21.renationalising the railways and the energy companies to make a better
:37:22. > :37:27.society for consumers and workers. Not that different from what the
:37:28. > :37:36.left of the Labour Party would like. But the left of the Labour Party do
:37:37. > :37:39.not run the Labour Party. Thank you. Now, Nigel Farage is rarely off your
:37:40. > :37:43.screens at the moment. And here he is again, talking to me on the
:37:44. > :37:47.Sunday Politics a few weeks ago. I asked him about allegations, denied
:37:48. > :37:49.by him, that he used public money to employ both his wife and his former
:37:50. > :37:53.mistress. Let us get a sense... I am very
:37:54. > :37:57.upset with the BBC coverage of this. The Ten O'Clock News ran this as a
:37:58. > :37:59.story without explaining the allegation was made using
:38:00. > :38:05.parliamentary privilege by someone on bail facing serious fraud
:38:06. > :38:10.charges. Nikki Sinclaire. The BBC did not explain that.
:38:11. > :38:15.The MEP who made those claims, Nikki Sinclaire, is here now. Welcome to
:38:16. > :38:19.the Daily Politics. We have just seen the interview with Nigel
:38:20. > :38:24.Farage. What are you objecting to in the interview? He is supposed to be
:38:25. > :38:31.standing up for British values, innocent until proven guilty. I
:38:32. > :38:35.totally refute these allegations against me. It has been two years
:38:36. > :38:38.since these allegations were made. I have not been interviewed by the
:38:39. > :38:44.police for more than 18 months. I think he was trying to attack in
:38:45. > :38:51.order to defend himself. You are still on bail for fraud?
:38:52. > :38:55.Unfortunately so. It had they brought charges early on, the trial
:38:56. > :39:00.would have been over and done with. Have you approached the police?
:39:01. > :39:06.Absolutely. They say, this is what we are doing. It is an anomaly in
:39:07. > :39:13.our system. Until you are in the situation, you do not realise. It is
:39:14. > :39:20.about expenses claims. It can't be that complicated. This refers to a
:39:21. > :39:25.time as a UKIP MEP. There was an important in my office. We cannot
:39:26. > :39:31.discuss the ins and outs of it. It only to them. They have had all of
:39:32. > :39:34.the paperwork. They should have charged me. I would have been to
:39:35. > :39:40.court, found not guilty. I do not believe they have enough to charge
:39:41. > :39:46.me. That is why they have not come forward yet? They have had two
:39:47. > :39:54.years. We could have had the trial. Have you got a bit of a vendetta
:39:55. > :39:59.against Mr Farage? No. I fell out with his linking to Holocaust
:40:00. > :40:05.deniers which was not what UKIP was supposed to be about. I was in UKIP
:40:06. > :40:09.from the start. Let us be clear. The BBC does not make this point to
:40:10. > :40:13.Nigel Farage. He has been an MEP for 15 years and there have been 19
:40:14. > :40:20.other UKIP MEPs and he has fallen out with 11. The 12 MEPs he took to
:40:21. > :40:26.Brussels, he has fallen out with six. Surely it cannot be all of us?
:40:27. > :40:31.I made the point he had the habit of falling out with some. More than
:40:32. > :40:36.half of his parliamentary party. These are your figures. They are on
:40:37. > :40:44.public record. What do you say to the charge that you abused voluntary
:40:45. > :40:47.privilege -- parliamentary privilege quest at he has used the same
:40:48. > :40:56.privilege so it is hypocritical. He has twice used the defence to make
:40:57. > :41:16.accusations against people. You have started a new party. We Demand A New
:41:17. > :41:20.Party. Centres Baize We, The Public. It Is A Regional Thing. Let Us Be
:41:21. > :41:25.Clear. You Have Asked Me What The Difference Is Between Us And Ukip.
:41:26. > :41:31.What Has Ukip Done? The Biggest Thing That Forced The Debate In This
:41:32. > :41:41.Country Was The Referendum That Brought Cameron. Centres Case Macro
:41:42. > :41:52.We Forced The Debate And Was Nigel Farage One Of Those 100,000
:41:53. > :41:57.Signatures? He refused to do so. He has five years ago claimed so much
:41:58. > :42:03.in expenses. What have they done with all of this money, ?45 million
:42:04. > :42:09.since 1999? What you are illustrating is something on the
:42:10. > :42:16.right that we were talking about. I am not right wing. You end up
:42:17. > :42:20.dividing and dividing. You want the same thing as UKIP when it comes to
:42:21. > :42:25.a referendum and you want to vote no to get out of Europe. That is the
:42:26. > :42:32.fundamental thing. I want the people to have a choice. It is the same as
:42:33. > :42:35.UKIP and you are dividing by standing yourself and you say you
:42:36. > :42:39.will put up other candidates but you will not tell me the number, by
:42:40. > :42:45.doing that, you are dividing the vote in the same way as all of the
:42:46. > :42:49.left-wing splinter groups. We left our regional political parties. I
:42:50. > :42:53.was a member of one of the main three political parties. We left on
:42:54. > :43:01.principle. UKIP have blown its principles. It has linked itself
:43:02. > :43:05.with extremists, people with criminal convictions, Holocaust
:43:06. > :43:09.deniers, violence against immigrants, that is the people it is
:43:10. > :43:13.linked with in the European Parliament. It has abused its
:43:14. > :43:19.principles. No one can tell me what UKIP has tangibly done. I can point
:43:20. > :43:25.in five years to something I have done to move the debate along. If
:43:26. > :43:30.you lose in the European elections, is that your political career over?
:43:31. > :43:35.There is more to life than politics, but I do not think so. I have been
:43:36. > :43:41.in politics since the age of ten. What will you do if you lose? I will
:43:42. > :43:46.keep campaigning because I believe in what I am campaigning for. Just
:43:47. > :43:51.as an individual, standing up for what I believe in. My constituents
:43:52. > :43:54.know me. I am likely to go back on the charges. I am the only MEP who
:43:55. > :44:02.has audited accounts which shows I have put in ?100,000 of my post-tax
:44:03. > :44:10.salary back into my work. No other MEP in this country can show that.
:44:11. > :44:15.What do you make of this? UKIP is a party where I very rarely see a
:44:16. > :44:23.female face. The candidate in Eastleigh was female. That is true.
:44:24. > :44:28.But there is a week of looking as -- but there are a lot of blokes. What
:44:29. > :44:34.female friendly policies does UKIP have? You will not find a senior
:44:35. > :44:42.woman in UKIP that has been there more than five years. I have only
:44:43. > :44:44.had two female MEPs and they have lost both of us. I have been a
:44:45. > :44:51.victim of violence from Nigel Farage. Assault in the European
:44:52. > :44:57.Parliament. This is the type of attitude. When I was on the national
:44:58. > :45:04.executive, we had meetings in gentleman's clubs. It is certainly
:45:05. > :45:11.the case Nigel Farage runs a tight fiefdom. It is only recently he has
:45:12. > :45:19.brought innate human could -- he has brought innate immune occasions
:45:20. > :45:24.director. We had Kilroy silk, other high-profile people. All of them
:45:25. > :45:29.have fallen out with him. Four of the previous six leaders, he has
:45:30. > :45:34.fallen out with. You seem more exercised about this than any other
:45:35. > :45:41.issue. You claimed you were a victim of violence. Of assault. His violent
:45:42. > :45:52.temper. His violent temper. Not physical assault? Verbal assault?
:45:53. > :45:58.No, physical assault. It is witness. He did not hit you quest at that is
:45:59. > :46:04.battery. Assault is one someone threatens you. To get revenge,
:46:05. > :46:08.having listened to you, I think most viewers would conclude that your
:46:09. > :46:12.main purpose in life is to get revenge. Absolutely not. My main
:46:13. > :46:19.achievement is forcing David Cameron to the dispatch box to talk about a
:46:20. > :46:22.referendum. UKIP did not fight that campaign. My main purpose in life is
:46:23. > :46:28.to get a referendum on our man ship of the era of -- the European Union.
:46:29. > :46:35.Who were you rooting for in the Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg debate?
:46:36. > :46:42.For us. I think that will come as a surprise to him. There was a time
:46:43. > :46:46.when Westminster and the long boozy lunch went together like steak and a
:46:47. > :46:50.bottle of Margaux, or a cheese roll and a glass of warm Liebfraumilch if
:46:51. > :46:52.you come round here on the Friday lunchtime. But these days
:46:53. > :46:54.journalists are a much more abstemious bunch. Have a look at
:46:55. > :47:15.this. In the age of the Internet where
:47:16. > :47:23.everybody is on a deadline or on Twitter, you cannot disappear for
:47:24. > :47:28.three hours in the afternoon. Old MPs would moan about the lack of
:47:29. > :47:34.dining clubs, but now there are more women here and we are getting more
:47:35. > :47:38.sober and more sensible. There was a legendary journalist who was famous
:47:39. > :47:43.for returning to the office after a lunch for a different suit. On the
:47:44. > :47:50.way home he stopped to relieve himself and he fell in the Thames.
:47:51. > :47:55.So Winston Churchill was a notorious drinker and John Smith, the leader
:47:56. > :48:01.of Labour, and even Roy Jenkins, were known to like a glass or two
:48:02. > :48:04.while they were working. The boozer is the way of loosening their
:48:05. > :48:10.tongues and you get more out of them. They are more likely to let
:48:11. > :48:19.their guard slip. That does not happen quite as often. When one is
:48:20. > :48:27.on the top of their game they do not allow their tongue to soften up with
:48:28. > :48:32.drink. The first drink I had was with Nigel Farage a few years ago
:48:33. > :48:37.with a couple of bloody Mary 's, some white wine and a bottle of
:48:38. > :48:41.red. By that point I was ready for a sleep. Nigel was fine and I
:48:42. > :48:47.staggered of home and he went and did a pre-record for Newsnight. That
:48:48. > :48:51.was the blogger Harry Cole ending that clip and he wrote about the
:48:52. > :48:55.death of the booze fuelled lunch for this week's Spectator Life. And he
:48:56. > :49:02.drew extensively for the piece on the knowledge of none other than Tim
:49:03. > :49:07.Shipman. You are quoted saying, when I arrived in Westminster in 2001, it
:49:08. > :49:14.was not unusual to sink half a bottle over lunch every day. Three
:49:15. > :49:19.bottles was far from unusual. What is the consumption rate these days?
:49:20. > :49:24.It is lot less than that. It is boring in Westminster. I had a lunch
:49:25. > :49:29.yesterday and not a drop past our lips. I blame the new intake. Most
:49:30. > :49:38.of them are more interested in penning policy papers. The new
:49:39. > :49:46.intake of politicians? Yes. I feel I got in 30 years too late. They would
:49:47. > :49:53.do a 32 page paper and you would sub two pages in the afternoon and that
:49:54. > :49:57.would be a good day's work. You only smoked two cigarettes when
:49:58. > :50:01.considering the headline. All that has now gone. It is blog something
:50:02. > :50:08.immediately, tweet something immediately. You have to be ready to
:50:09. > :50:13.go to the TV studios. The pace has increased so much. It is true. The
:50:14. > :50:20.days when you wrote one article a week or do two stories a week, those
:50:21. > :50:28.days have gone. You are expected to appear on 24 hour news, to tweet, to
:50:29. > :50:33.do other things. It is a round-the-clock job. There are great
:50:34. > :50:37.exceptions. There was a penal member of the Labour Party who sank an
:50:38. > :50:41.entire bottle of lunch on her own and probably went of to Sky
:50:42. > :50:45.Television and did a good interview. I sat down with a member of the
:50:46. > :50:50.Shadow Cabinet and they had got to lunch before me and a double gin was
:50:51. > :50:54.already on the globe. There are people still upholding some of these
:50:55. > :51:02.traditions. It sounds a bit less fun. If you ask now people who work
:51:03. > :51:06.in journalism if they would give up coffee or booze, they find that
:51:07. > :51:12.tough because we rely so much on caffeine to get us through the day.
:51:13. > :51:17.And John Bercow has not been that interested in drinking. He is
:51:18. > :51:24.discouraging it. But on his watch we have had punch-ups in the bars and
:51:25. > :51:28.we found one MP had his collar felt. Some of the MPs are doing their
:51:29. > :51:34.best. But the people you want to take to lunch have a more serious
:51:35. > :51:39.view of these things. Some journalists say they write better. I
:51:40. > :51:46.do not. I have one drink and I go to sleep. If you move to a Sunday
:51:47. > :51:51.paper, you could indulge a bit more, off the relentless treadmill of the
:51:52. > :51:58.day. Some people find the class concentrates the mind.
:51:59. > :52:02.Labour and the Liberal Democrats say they are happy for a televised
:52:03. > :52:08.debates to go ahead in the same format as agreed before the last
:52:09. > :52:12.election, we have just found out. The Liberal Democrats have rejected
:52:13. > :52:19.any debate that only include David Cameron and Ed Miliband. I assume
:52:20. > :52:23.there would be a legal challenge from the Lib Dems if that happened.
:52:24. > :52:27.The Conservatives say the Prime Minister wants to debate, but they
:52:28. > :52:33.are not clear how they should proceed. It is breaking news. Tim
:52:34. > :52:39.and Helen have enjoyed so many long lunches they can barely recall the
:52:40. > :52:47.news of the week. Here is a round-up of the week in 60 seconds.
:52:48. > :52:54.Nick versus Nigel was the top of Westminster. No hokey Cokie, but a
:52:55. > :53:10.lot of in and out. Nigel Farage celebrated by, yes? I am not off to
:53:11. > :53:19.church. SSE reignited the energy price row. Why it was a price freeze
:53:20. > :53:23.wrong six months ago, but it is right today? We have reduced the
:53:24. > :53:33.cost of energy charges. As things got heated, John Bercow restored
:53:34. > :53:38.order with a lightning aurora. Order! It will take more than that
:53:39. > :53:44.to calm angry teachers who went out on strike over pay and pensions. One
:53:45. > :53:51.day later, a different feel on the streets as friends and folk gathered
:53:52. > :53:57.to say farewell to Tony Benn. I hope that has refreshed your memories.
:53:58. > :54:01.What is the Conservative position on televised debates? Internally they
:54:02. > :54:06.would only like to have a debate with Ed Miliband. They thought it
:54:07. > :54:11.was not a good thing last time because Nick Clegg muddied the
:54:12. > :54:14.waters and he got exposure. They repeatedly say they want debates.
:54:15. > :54:20.That is official, but behind the scenes it is not clear. In the last
:54:21. > :54:24.few weeks Labour spokesmen are saying, we signed up as the same as
:54:25. > :54:28.last time, but they are also prepared to say the important thing
:54:29. > :54:33.is we get David Cameron signed up and we have a debate between the two
:54:34. > :54:39.potential prime ministers. They are not ruling out Nick Clegg, but the
:54:40. > :54:43.fact they have inched towards the conservative position is
:54:44. > :54:48.interesting. The Conservatives think before the election campaign has
:54:49. > :54:52.started, it would be possible to do David Cameron and Ed Miliband. If
:54:53. > :54:57.they did it in February and March it would be possible to do that and
:54:58. > :55:02.maybe have one debate and not have any debate during the campaign.
:55:03. > :55:07.There was talk among the Conservatives about having the
:55:08. > :55:10.debates, but we think the debates hijacked the campaign, so let's have
:55:11. > :55:17.the debates before the official campaign begins. That may be a hard
:55:18. > :55:22.one to run. It might be. But they want to have the idea that David
:55:23. > :55:27.Cameron is the first alternative, but it turned out that Nick Clegg
:55:28. > :55:34.was the fresher alternative. You can see from the point of view of Ed
:55:35. > :55:39.Miliband why he wants that. You get a good pull-back when you are
:55:40. > :55:46.standing toe to toe with the Prime Minister and they want that image in
:55:47. > :55:51.people's minds. If it is held outside the official election
:55:52. > :55:56.period, by that I mean David Cameron versus Ed Miliband, the chances of a
:55:57. > :55:59.legal challenge may be more difficult to win. That is the
:56:00. > :56:08.conservative position, they think they will get away with it. They
:56:09. > :56:16.think that maybe better than exposing him to the danger of an
:56:17. > :56:21.insurgent Ed Miliband. What is in it for David Cameron? Who is he going
:56:22. > :56:27.to convince? It is a whole lot of stuff for him to lose as incumbent.
:56:28. > :56:31.He took control of the campaign in the last time. There was a two-day
:56:32. > :56:39.build-up and then there was the day and there was two days of post-match
:56:40. > :56:45.analysis. This week will not have helped that. They will have watched
:56:46. > :56:50.the debate with interest and the political media obsession, and the
:56:51. > :56:55.frenzy on Twitter. It has consumed the entire week and that reinforces
:56:56. > :57:00.what they thought last time. They would have liked the post-budget
:57:01. > :57:07.headlines to run for longer and that has got changed. The debate between
:57:08. > :57:13.Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg overtook the headlines. Yes, when instead
:57:14. > :57:19.they could have had headlines about labour being in trouble after the
:57:20. > :57:25.budget. Yesterday Michael Gove was taking part in the BBC School news
:57:26. > :57:33.report. He was asked about his favourite rap. Which one did you
:57:34. > :57:38.pick? He said he liked Chuck D. Then he picked the Wham Rap. That his
:57:39. > :57:46.previous interview said he followed another one. You recently said you
:57:47. > :57:59.quite like rap music, so I was wondering, could you give us a taste
:58:00. > :58:02.of your favourite rap. I have got so many, the original was the Wham Rap.
:58:03. > :58:06.Hey everybody take a look at me, I've got street credibility. I may
:58:07. > :58:12.not have a job, but I have a good time. With the boys that I meet down
:58:13. > :58:18.on the line. It is interesting he liked rap based on welfare benefits!
:58:19. > :58:22.The Wham Rap came out in 1982, talking about the virtues of
:58:23. > :58:24.unemployment. Here is what it should sound like.
:58:25. > :58:28.Hey, everybody, take a look at me, I've got street credibility. I may
:58:29. > :58:34.not have a job, but I have a good time. With the boys that I meet down
:58:35. > :58:40.on the line. Not quite as good as the real thing,
:58:41. > :58:46.but he tried. He could sell himself up with a leather jacket and a
:58:47. > :58:53.quiff. That is what you call hinterland! We will be back on BBC
:58:54. > :58:54.One on Sunday with the Daily Politics and I will be interviewing
:58:55. > :59:01.Ed Davey. Goodbye.