:00:37. > :00:42.Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Maria Miller's gone
:00:43. > :00:45.but the stench of yet another expenses scandal still hangs around
:00:46. > :00:51.Westminster. But who should govern the lawmakers? He was a thorn in
:00:52. > :00:54.Labour's side and a strident critic of Thatcherism, can this man
:00:55. > :01:00.galvanise the left in next month's European and local elections? All
:01:01. > :01:09.the choice the free market can provide but are human beings a bit
:01:10. > :01:13.rubbish at making the right choices? Not only are Cameron and Osborne two
:01:14. > :01:17.posh boys who don't know the price of milk but they are two arrogant
:01:18. > :01:18.posh boys. But do our political leaders really need to know the
:01:19. > :01:30.price of basic foodstuffs? All that in the next hour. And with
:01:31. > :01:34.us for the duration today is a man who should be good with numbers -
:01:35. > :01:39.the FT's undercover economist and presenter of Radio 4's More or Less,
:01:40. > :01:45.Tim Harford. Let's start with house prices. House sales have climbed to
:01:46. > :01:49.their highest levels in six years, according to figures from the Royal
:01:50. > :01:53.Institution of Chartered Surveyors. It has raised concerns that not
:01:54. > :01:56.enough houses are coming on to the market to meet demand from buyers,
:01:57. > :02:04.putting an upward pressure on prices. Let's talk to Simon
:02:05. > :02:13.Rubinsohn, chief economist at the Royal Institution of Chartered
:02:14. > :02:20.Surveyors. Is this largely a London and the South problem? Perhaps six
:02:21. > :02:26.months ago it was a London and South problem. We are now seeing activity
:02:27. > :02:27.picked up across the country. It is partly the signs of a recovery in
:02:28. > :02:44.the You, me. -- in the wider economy.
:02:45. > :02:52.Supply is not keeping pace. House prices have not returned to the peak
:02:53. > :02:57.of 2008? In terms of pricing, London is very special. The recovery began
:02:58. > :03:04.earlier and there are other elements to the recovery and demand in London
:03:05. > :03:09.as well. In the North, the North West all the North East, and also in
:03:10. > :03:16.most of Scotland, maybe excluding Edinburgh, house prices are still a
:03:17. > :03:21.long way off the peak in 2008. What we are saying in the report today is
:03:22. > :03:25.there are encouraging signs of activity picking up. People who had
:03:26. > :03:29.not been able to move in many parts of the country because there had not
:03:30. > :03:33.been supply of mortgage finance or the appetite to move, they now have
:03:34. > :03:37.that opportunity. We are beginning to see that recovery kick in.
:03:38. > :03:45.Outside London and a few centres, prices are still way below where
:03:46. > :03:58.they were in 2007/. Let's put the Central London market to one side.
:03:59. > :04:02.-- 2007/ /2008. Maybe you could throw in money laundering as well. I
:04:03. > :04:10.would not say that although I probably just did! Everywhere else,
:04:11. > :04:15.what is pushing up house prices? There is not enough supply. Demand
:04:16. > :04:23.is recovering. It is not excessive all fuelled by debt in the way it
:04:24. > :04:30.was in the last decade. There is not the supply. You girls is only just
:04:31. > :04:34.beginning to recover. Existing home owners are reluctant to trade up in
:04:35. > :04:40.a significant way so you are not seeing second-hand stock coming onto
:04:41. > :04:45.the market. When I first got onto the property market, like many
:04:46. > :04:49.people did in the mid-70s, duty was not much of a consideration. You had
:04:50. > :04:57.to pay it but it was not a huge sum of money. Now it is a lot of money.
:04:58. > :05:01.Is that it is an incentive? We have been arguing that reform of stamp
:05:02. > :05:06.duty is urgently required. It seems bizarre to me we have a system where
:05:07. > :05:12.it kicks in in full at certain levels. It is a slap structure, and
:05:13. > :05:17.marginal rate structure. That is inconsistent with every other form
:05:18. > :05:20.of tax. It is necessary and overdue and would help people at the bottom
:05:21. > :05:26.end of the market, the first time buyers, who really are being
:05:27. > :05:36.suddenly saddled with very huge tax bills. Thank you very much for
:05:37. > :05:39.marking our card on that. We are in a situation where the politicians
:05:40. > :05:46.know how to jack up demand but they have yet to show us they know how to
:05:47. > :05:49.jack up the supply. You have put your finger on the problem. This is
:05:50. > :05:55.what we need, more houses to be built. British houses are small by
:05:56. > :05:59.European standards. They are old by European standards. If we built more
:06:00. > :06:08.houses, obviously we are building some. If we build more houses, that
:06:09. > :06:11.would tend to bring prices down and make them more affordable, which is
:06:12. > :06:15.good in all kinds of ways. Housing construction is a great source of
:06:16. > :06:19.jobs for skilled and semiskilled workers. I understand the politics
:06:20. > :06:24.of it. It is difficult to point to any particular field in the country
:06:25. > :06:30.and say, bring in the bulldozers, we are going to build houses. It also
:06:31. > :06:34.has economic consequences. If you are living in the north and you own
:06:35. > :06:38.your new house and you get offered a job in the south, you'd think, that
:06:39. > :06:43.is a good job, more money, or interesting job. You sell your house
:06:44. > :06:51.in the north and it would not give you enough money to buy a house in
:06:52. > :06:56.the south. No, it would not. Stamp duty makes it expensive to buy and
:06:57. > :07:02.sell houses. That is odd. I would see why you would have a tax on
:07:03. > :07:08.owning an expensive house... Like a mansion tax? Or the council tax, if
:07:09. > :07:13.it was rationally structured. This is a tax on buying and selling. It
:07:14. > :07:17.is a disincentive to buy and sell houses and that will slow down
:07:18. > :07:22.mobility. It will make people only move when they feel they have to.
:07:23. > :07:26.That is not a great idea. The record of the Government on housing is not
:07:27. > :07:31.stellar. Even that of the last Labour government was not that
:07:32. > :07:35.great. Politicians know they have to provide more homes. They know that.
:07:36. > :07:39.They want to do it as well on the left and the right. There seems to
:07:40. > :07:44.be so many institutional blocks to doing so, whether it is planning
:07:45. > :07:52.laws or the NIMBY -ism or the availability of getting land. It
:07:53. > :07:56.would need very bold reformer indeed. You can see the vested
:07:57. > :08:00.interests of house-builders. They are not keen to have planning
:08:01. > :08:06.reforms because they know how it works. Older voters who we know are
:08:07. > :08:09.very powerful as a voting bloc. They tended to own houses and they are
:08:10. > :08:14.not keen to have houses built in their back gardens. A lot of vested
:08:15. > :08:17.interests who do not want change. A lot of people who see themselves
:08:18. > :08:20.getting onto the housing ladder do not fully appreciate what a
:08:21. > :08:23.structural problem planning laws are. Thank you for that. Now it is
:08:24. > :08:26.time for our daily quiz. The departure of Maria Miller yesterday
:08:27. > :08:29.led to something of a reshuffle. Knowing that Tim here lives and
:08:30. > :08:32.breathes minor changes to the Government front bench, we thought
:08:33. > :08:36.we'd see if he's been paying attention. So which of these
:08:37. > :08:39.ministers is the odd one out? Is it... A) Ken Clarke, b) Grant
:08:40. > :08:50.Shapps, c) Nicky Morgan, or d) Sajid Javid? At the end of the show, Tim
:08:51. > :08:54.will give us the correct answer. You will, when she? I will try. Maria
:08:55. > :08:56.Miller's resignation has demonstrated once again that
:08:57. > :09:02.allegations of financial impropriety are the hottest of the political hot
:09:03. > :09:06.potatoes. MPs now face accusations of being too soft on their own and
:09:07. > :09:09.there are calls to change the way politicians are censured. The rules
:09:10. > :09:12.governing MPs' business costs and expenses are decided by IPSA, the
:09:13. > :09:15.Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, set up in 2009 in the
:09:16. > :09:27.wake of the expenses scandal IPSA sets MPs' expenses limits and
:09:28. > :09:29.authorises any claims. Complaints are investigated by IPSA's
:09:30. > :09:32.Compliance Officer However, because Maria Miller's expense claims
:09:33. > :09:34.pre-dated the creation of IPSA, they had to be investigated by the
:09:35. > :09:37.Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards They ensure MPs abide by
:09:38. > :09:45.the Code of Conduct and recommend action. The Parliamentary
:09:46. > :09:51.Commissioner for standards investigated her claims. It is his
:09:52. > :09:55.job to look into whether MPs have stuck to the code of conduct and
:09:56. > :09:59.recommend action if they have not. It's then up to the Commons
:10:00. > :10:02.Standards Committee, made up of MPs and lay members, to decide what
:10:03. > :10:05.sanction should be taken. However, not everyone is happy with this.
:10:06. > :10:09.Former Parliamentary Commissioner Sir Ian Kennedy said MPs marking
:10:10. > :10:14.their own homework always ends in scandal. According to some, the
:10:15. > :10:17.solution is a right to recall, taking the decision away from
:10:18. > :10:30.Parliament and giving it straight to the people. The fact is the real
:10:31. > :10:35.answer to the scandal we had back in 2009/2010 is actually appeared in
:10:36. > :10:39.the coalition agreement. I have been championing this for some time. The
:10:40. > :10:43.right of voters in a constituency to demand a by-election. The coalition
:10:44. > :10:48.accepted this. It was part of their agreement and they have done nothing
:10:49. > :10:52.about it. That leaves people with the impression, people say things at
:10:53. > :10:57.election time they do not really mean. Who would have thought that?
:10:58. > :11:02.Politicians saying things at election time they do not mean. We
:11:03. > :11:05.will come back to recall in a minute. Let's talk now to the
:11:06. > :11:13.Director of the Hansard Society, Ruth Fox. I am right in thinking now
:11:14. > :11:20.that the standards committee of MPs, which came to their final
:11:21. > :11:25.judgment, some thought quite a soft one, Maria Miller, that won't going
:11:26. > :11:30.forward have a role on MPs expenses, is that right? Ipsa will
:11:31. > :11:35.make the decision to an independent compliance officer. They will have
:11:36. > :11:44.legal recourse if they want to reclaim money from MPs and add
:11:45. > :11:49.interest charges and costs. Ultimately, it can go to the High
:11:50. > :11:55.Court if necessary. This committee will still have a say on other
:11:56. > :11:59.disciplinary matters will stop to the extent of non-expenses
:12:00. > :12:05.discipline, it could be argued that MPs will continue to mark their own
:12:06. > :12:09.homework? That is certainly true. As you mentioned in respect of any new
:12:10. > :12:12.cases that emerge from MPs related to expenses who were in the last
:12:13. > :12:17.parliament which predates the creation of its. It is important to
:12:18. > :12:21.remember that people have been saying, MPs marking their own
:12:22. > :12:26.homework, the solution is independent regulation. On the
:12:27. > :12:29.standards committee there are three independent members of the public.
:12:30. > :12:32.That is the first time ever on a Parliamentary committee, who sit
:12:33. > :12:35.with members of the House and make judgments on the conduct of MPs and
:12:36. > :12:42.the punishments that should be meted out. The Maria Miller case is the
:12:43. > :12:46.first big test of that. It is interesting that they appear to have
:12:47. > :12:51.reached the same inclusions as the elected members on that committee
:12:52. > :12:54.about her case. It would have been devastating for the politicians on
:12:55. > :12:58.that committee if the three lay members had done a minority report.
:12:59. > :13:05.They do not have a vote but they could, I think, have done a minority
:13:06. > :13:09.report saying, we do not agree with the recommendations now would have
:13:10. > :13:16.been devastating. They do not have a right to do but they do have an
:13:17. > :13:20.ability to register their views. They can produce a minority report
:13:21. > :13:24.and have it published. The committee cannot publish its own report until
:13:25. > :13:27.those independent members have produced their report and they are
:13:28. > :13:32.published together. They may not have a vote but they have immense
:13:33. > :13:35.influence. It would be devastating for elected members if the
:13:36. > :13:38.independent members publicly disagreed with them. They have yet
:13:39. > :13:44.to flex their muscles on this matter. Final question, do you have
:13:45. > :13:51.a view on this idea of right to recall? Going back to the comments,
:13:52. > :13:56.I think it was Nigel Farage in your clips saying, it was in the
:13:57. > :13:59.coalition agreement. This is one of the big problems. They see
:14:00. > :14:03.politicians make promises and then not deliver. It feeds the idea that
:14:04. > :14:08.no matter what party is in charge, it does not make that much
:14:09. > :14:11.difference. Recall is one of those measures that the public recognise
:14:12. > :14:14.as a reform which could help in terms of accountability between
:14:15. > :14:19.general elections. At the moment they do not feel there is any
:14:20. > :14:23.accountability between elections and this is a measure which could assist
:14:24. > :14:25.with that. Let's stick with this issue. With us now is the
:14:26. > :14:31.Conservative MP, Zac Goldsmith, and the former adviser to Tony Blair,
:14:32. > :14:34.John McTernan. Welcome to you both. You and I have talked several times
:14:35. > :14:40.on this programme about the right to recall. I know you are in favour of
:14:41. > :14:45.it. Why are you against it, John? Yellow mapper I do not think anyone
:14:46. > :14:52.is going unpunished in the current system. -- I do not think. I do not
:14:53. > :15:00.see what problem is being addressed by the recall. Maria Miller has not
:15:01. > :15:04.lost her seat? There has not been an election. Neal Hamilton was
:15:05. > :15:07.challenged and knocked off. The system regulates itself. Voters get
:15:08. > :15:13.rid of MPs who do not want and the parties get rid of the people they
:15:14. > :15:17.do not want in positions. What do you say to that? If there is a
:15:18. > :15:21.scandal early in parliament, there is a five-year period where people
:15:22. > :15:28.are represented by someone in whom they have no confidence. Three mat
:15:29. > :15:35.time, the decisions might be made. -- during that time. In a rock-solid
:15:36. > :15:43.Tory seat, nearly way of getting rid of the candidate is by involving
:15:44. > :15:46.improper democracy. They need a candidate in whom they have
:15:47. > :15:51.confidence. That is not all is possible. I think, and I speak as an
:15:52. > :15:54.MP, I know there has been no mechanism at all whereby my
:15:55. > :15:59.constituents have been able to hold me to account since I was elected in
:16:00. > :16:10.2010. I might get booted out in 2015 that those five years matter. I
:16:11. > :16:16.don't think the recall proposition helps. Say you have an MP who
:16:17. > :16:20.supports HS2, in a constituency where 10% of the population get
:16:21. > :16:29.together and have a by-election attacking them for that, it is a
:16:30. > :16:38.license for NIMBYs. It is a licence for the voice of the people. They
:16:39. > :16:45.came up with an arcane thing, tempers trigger, which also said you
:16:46. > :16:55.got have a recall by the -- recall ballot. 20% trigger is better but if
:16:56. > :16:59.I had money behind me I could generate the money and a campaign to
:17:00. > :17:01.get 20% of the people, particularly with the government proposition
:17:02. > :17:08.where automatically people with postal votes get sent petition form
:17:09. > :17:16.to sign on time. It is a very easy system to gain. You elect MPs for
:17:17. > :17:25.the term of the parliament, you have good ones and bad ones, I don't
:17:26. > :17:31.think interfering solves a problem that is so gigantic you should put
:17:32. > :17:33.anarchy at the heart of it. There is no evidence anywhere in the world
:17:34. > :17:39.where recall happens and it happens all over the world, of anarchy
:17:40. > :17:44.arising. The existence of recall keeps MPs on their toes, they behave
:17:45. > :17:49.better. It isn't borne out by experience. Even so we have 650 MPs,
:17:50. > :17:52.take which would park, it would be absurd for Richmond Park to be
:17:53. > :17:56.represented by somebody in favour of Heathrow expansion, it is the most
:17:57. > :18:00.unpopular concept is doing the rounds today in my patch. If I were
:18:01. > :18:07.to change my views on Heathrow I suspect people would have the right
:18:08. > :18:10.to recall me. I would no longer be representing their views. If you
:18:11. > :18:16.believe in democracy you have to believe representatives speak for
:18:17. > :18:19.the people who have elected them. HS2 is another example. If it were
:18:20. > :18:22.the case that two or three MPs were booted out for supporting the
:18:23. > :18:26.project that was unpopular in their constituency it wouldn't have an
:18:27. > :18:34.impact on national policy but I maintain and a recall on this, a
:18:35. > :18:41.representative being recalled because of unpopular decision.
:18:42. > :18:45.Across the United States in the mayoral system in the States, what
:18:46. > :18:47.elites do is paralysis, recall is used all the threat of recall create
:18:48. > :18:58.administrative or political paralysis. The best example is
:18:59. > :19:04.California weather was a recall ballot -- where there was a recall
:19:05. > :19:08.ballot. Energy prices had the government in California had got
:19:09. > :19:18.into a total mess over energy prices. The people were furious.
:19:19. > :19:22.There will books written about Ray Davies and why he was a useless
:19:23. > :19:29.governor. Every single governor has faced we call Dash has faced a
:19:30. > :19:32.recall attempt. It is very rarely deployed, it is about Loccoz voters
:19:33. > :19:44.must have one thing is very badly wrong. The initiation of it is a
:19:45. > :19:47.distraction. Come back to the point you have said, if you changed your
:19:48. > :19:59.mind on Heathrow, you should be recalled. The discipline is there
:20:00. > :20:06.already, you do in your constituents your judgement, you are not a
:20:07. > :20:12.delegate. You are meant to go there and be a transmission belt for their
:20:13. > :20:19.opinions. You are Zac Goldsmith, MP for Richmond Park. If I were to do
:20:20. > :20:24.the dramatic U-turn on Heathrow expansion I would have misled people
:20:25. > :20:27.before the election. Why should Conservative voters in Richmond Park
:20:28. > :20:30.and North can still have to vote for a Lib Dem candidate because they
:20:31. > :20:33.don't like their Tory candidate, why should they vote for an entire suite
:20:34. > :20:43.of policies because they don't like... Where are you on this? It is
:20:44. > :20:47.a daft idea. It is the fiction that all voters in a constituency are
:20:48. > :20:52.happy with their MP anyway, many people voted for other parties
:20:53. > :20:56.become dissatisfied. Even if you have constant because you couldn't
:20:57. > :20:59.keep everybody happy. There is accountability, Maria Miller lost a
:21:00. > :21:03.well paying job, she had a reputation damaged and she will face
:21:04. > :21:07.the electorate next spring. I don't see the problem with British
:21:08. > :21:13.politics is it is not short term is enough or populist enough, that is
:21:14. > :21:17.what we call would bring. There is a different dynamic when the election
:21:18. > :21:20.brings, people vote for the party because they want their party to
:21:21. > :21:23.form the man pulled up Maria Miller could well hold on to let it come
:21:24. > :21:26.the election not because people are Basingstoke are happy with her, but
:21:27. > :21:30.because enough of them want a Tory government they will vote for the
:21:31. > :21:34.Tory whoever it is. He said the system works, but for a lot of
:21:35. > :21:37.people watching this programme and for a lot of people getting in
:21:38. > :21:40.touch, they don't think it has it all. They think shouldn't pay back
:21:41. > :21:48.the money she was meant to, they think she continues as an MP with a
:21:49. > :21:55.good salary, and she even gets redundancy money from being a
:21:56. > :21:59.Cabinet Minister. In 2001 came within 880 votes being a Labour
:22:00. > :22:05.seat. There is an anti-Tory majority if it wishes to mobilise it. In 2001
:22:06. > :22:08.the Labour Party under Mr Blair had huge appeal to the south. You were
:22:09. > :22:15.part of that, that is not quite true today. But your points come to the
:22:16. > :22:20.same thing, the Tory party are proposing a member of the party,
:22:21. > :22:25.Maria Miller in this case, who you think Basingstoke might not want.
:22:26. > :22:29.That is a matter for party reform, for compulsory pre-selections by
:22:30. > :22:33.primary is, every time you put somebody up, it is allowing the
:22:34. > :22:37.public to choose for top if you concern is the party is going to put
:22:38. > :22:45.somebody up, if Maria Miller is toxic to the voters, a candidate
:22:46. > :22:49.would be found who would throw her out, the public would throw her out.
:22:50. > :22:54.My concern is the five years in between elections. I don't think it
:22:55. > :22:58.is possible to exaggerate this disconnect between people and power,
:22:59. > :23:03.I feel this is an MP every single day, when we look at but after this
:23:04. > :23:06.programme, there is an overwhelming hatred geared towards politicians, a
:23:07. > :23:10.sense politics has become so remote that people no longer have any
:23:11. > :23:17.impact, they cannot hold MPs to account. What recall we do is it
:23:18. > :23:26.would give people a sense of empowerment. Why not have
:23:27. > :23:31.high-frequency general elections? If an MP loses an annual contest voters
:23:32. > :23:34.need to be able to keep them on their toes at this is the only
:23:35. > :23:37.mechanism I can think of that would act public key people on the days
:23:38. > :23:41.between elections from day one until the last day. Challenger again,
:23:42. > :23:48.there is not a single example of a successful recall campaign anywhere
:23:49. > :23:53.in the world, Canada, Croatia, parts of South America, Switzerland, South
:23:54. > :23:56.Korea, there is not one example, any constitutional expert has been able
:23:57. > :24:05.to provide, of an unfair, successful campaign. The fear of the mob is a
:24:06. > :24:12.fear of democracy. I will be vexatious and call this to an end.
:24:13. > :24:15.I will have to give this year 's London Marathon a mess, not least
:24:16. > :24:21.because I have got to be done the Sunday Politics for an hour after it
:24:22. > :24:24.finishes. It is the perfect view of winding down after 26 mile one, so I
:24:25. > :24:29.highly recommend it. We have got a big debate coming the Sunday on the
:24:30. > :24:35.European elections. Some brave MPs are taking part in one of the world
:24:36. > :24:42.'s most watched marathons. Alex Forsyth is on College Green with two
:24:43. > :24:45.of them. I would love to be there on Sunday pounding the pavements,
:24:46. > :24:49.taking part in the London Marathon, but unfortunately I am just too
:24:50. > :24:54.busy. A number of MPs are just taking part, we think it is a record
:24:55. > :24:57.number this year, a total of nine have decided to take on the
:24:58. > :25:03.challenge and we have grabbed two of them here with us today, in their
:25:04. > :25:06.full running regalia. Peggy throw much for being with us. I am not a
:25:07. > :25:12.runner, the idea of running 26 miles feels we with horror and dread, what
:25:13. > :25:16.on earth possesses you? It is a long way, I'm doing it to raise money for
:25:17. > :25:21.Cancer research UK, most people 's lives are touched by cancer at some
:25:22. > :25:25.point, my certainly has been. Every two minutes summary is diagnosed and
:25:26. > :25:30.each week 2800 people 's lives are saved by amazing research. They are
:25:31. > :25:40.a fantastic charity doing amazing work and I am really proud, via my
:25:41. > :25:44.site, 20 raise as much money for stop my father is 70 this year, we
:25:45. > :25:47.are going to run it together. Here's a veteran marathon runner so I am
:25:48. > :25:51.hoping he will drag me round because I haven't done a huge amount of
:25:52. > :25:59.training. I hear you are one of the more MPs. And certainly competitive
:26:00. > :26:19.in terms of how much money I want to raise for Marek Yuri Dash Dash Marie
:26:20. > :26:29.Curie. His arms like you know your timings. -- it sounds like. We have
:26:30. > :26:33.made these classy heads on state and I want you to guess the personal
:26:34. > :26:38.best. You have referenced him, let's start with this one, what is his
:26:39. > :26:50.personal best time, Jim Murphy? It was three point 31. 3.31. On the
:26:51. > :26:55.money, good effort. The infamous Ed Balls running for the third year. Do
:26:56. > :27:11.we know what stunning time he has made. It is over five hours. 5.14.
:27:12. > :27:23.Desk each others? Mine is 3.394. What about down? I bet it is to
:27:24. > :27:28.something. 3.12 is my personal best. Good effort. There is obviously a
:27:29. > :27:33.light-hearted side, but it is serious as well, a lot of people are
:27:34. > :27:43.encouraged, are you encouraged by the number of MPs running? It
:27:44. > :27:49.running for a national and local charity, and in London it is a great
:27:50. > :27:53.thing to do, quite an unhealthy lifestyle, makes sure we get out in
:27:54. > :27:57.the evening or morning to one, brings a bit of discipline back to
:27:58. > :28:01.life. Are you looking forward to it? Nervous? It is a global sporting
:28:02. > :28:05.event, people come from around the world. Great to be a part of it in
:28:06. > :28:09.some small way. Well done to you both, good luck for Sunday. I'm not
:28:10. > :28:18.convinced yet but I will be certainly watching.
:28:19. > :28:25.Two weeks ago we spoke to a representative of Left Unity. We
:28:26. > :28:30.speak to Dave Nellist, the national chair of the trade unionists and
:28:31. > :28:42.socialist coalition, known as task. You may remember him as a form
:28:43. > :28:44.unable MP -- former Labour MP. Labour magpies National Executive
:28:45. > :28:47.has suspended the entire constituency party of garbage is
:28:48. > :28:52.East because it is continuing to support the MP Dave Nellist. He was
:28:53. > :28:57.expelled over a week ago for alleged links with militants. I am not a
:28:58. > :29:03.member of the militants, I am no longer a member of the Labour Party.
:29:04. > :29:06.I am still a socialist. I shall go back to the people who are selected
:29:07. > :29:12.my first, supported me, and ask them. The militant standing
:29:13. > :29:17.candidates against the Labour Party. They have a cheek, anybody, to think
:29:18. > :29:25.they can remain in our party. They have no honour. Get rid of me,
:29:26. > :29:32.tragically they did, does not help Labour's chances in the general
:29:33. > :29:41.election one iota. And here in the studio is Dave Nellist. Is it true
:29:42. > :29:47.that someone had a sense of humour in the whips office and put to him
:29:48. > :29:51.at a young MP called Tony Blair? It was only four weeks before he went
:29:52. > :30:02.off and got an office with Gordon Brown. If you want to hold me
:30:03. > :30:12.responsible for the creation of new Labour, I hold up my hands. We saw
:30:13. > :30:17.that you got expelled from the Labour Party because they thought
:30:18. > :30:25.you were too supportive, to close off militant tendency. In 1990, the
:30:26. > :30:30.poll tax battle were occurring. I was next on the list to go to
:30:31. > :30:34.prison. Neil Kinnock thought he would win votes by expelling hard
:30:35. > :30:39.left wingers who were prepared to go to prison over the poll tax. Two
:30:40. > :30:45.years later, he spent two years attacking the left, and he lost the
:30:46. > :30:51.elections in 1992. The strategy did not work. You have been outside the
:30:52. > :30:56.Labour Party ever since. It is tough being on the left if you are not
:30:57. > :31:01.inside the Labour Party, is it not? Not now. I do not see major
:31:02. > :31:06.differences. You had a guest here a few weeks ago he described the
:31:07. > :31:10.difference between Ed Balls and George Osborne about 3%. That is
:31:11. > :31:16.what most people think about the big parties. There are two divisions in
:31:17. > :31:26.politics, Labour, Liberal Democrat, the Tories, UKIP. There is a Second
:31:27. > :31:34.Division and TUSC, of which I am a member, let's deal with them, it is
:31:35. > :31:40.the sixth largest party in the country. It is the only one with
:31:41. > :31:44.absolute policy against austerity and the effects on local people
:31:45. > :31:49.services. Why does the breakthrough of the left, and I do not mean in
:31:50. > :31:54.the sense of winning a majority, but a breakthrough in making progress,
:31:55. > :31:58.why does it not happen? I am thinking particularly, there was
:31:59. > :32:03.what might be regarded on the left in 2008 is a crisis of capitalism.
:32:04. > :32:07.We are still trying to recover from there. It did not result, not just
:32:08. > :32:11.in this country that actually across the western world, it did not result
:32:12. > :32:21.in a breakthrough for the left. The lack of PR in this country is more
:32:22. > :32:27.difficult. We have left Socialist party members. The other major
:32:28. > :32:34.factor is the biggest trade unions are imprisoned within the Labour
:32:35. > :32:42.Party. The unions were working -- we are working with were smaller,
:32:43. > :32:45.unaffiliated year and -- unions. We had the last general secretary in
:32:46. > :32:50.the current assistant general secretary. We had the smaller,
:32:51. > :32:59.unaffiliated unions. They do not yet have the social weight of the bigger
:33:00. > :33:04.unions. It was not a foregone conclusion mac Unite would always
:33:05. > :33:11.put its money into the Labour Party. It is an argument I have had. I have
:33:12. > :33:15.been a member for 40 years. We have got 120 members standing at
:33:16. > :33:19.candidate in this election. Conveners, shop stewards, active
:33:20. > :33:24.union members. The debate that is going on in the big unions is going
:33:25. > :33:29.in our direction. There is a problem on the left. There are so many
:33:30. > :33:33.different groups. You are a member of the Socialist party of England
:33:34. > :33:46.and Wales. Someone told me that goes by the acronym SPEW. Is that right?
:33:47. > :33:55.Not by its members. I'd have you up also a member of TUSC. You will be a
:33:56. > :33:59.candidate for the no to EU party. You are going to need a big front
:34:00. > :34:04.window to get all these different posters. The Socialist party is not
:34:05. > :34:11.standing in the elections. We are part of the TUSC coalition. We may
:34:12. > :34:15.be small but the RMT has 80,000 members. I repeat, we are a major
:34:16. > :34:19.minor party, we are the Second Division. We are the biggest
:34:20. > :34:24.challenge to the left of Labour for 60 years. No one has had 600
:34:25. > :34:30.candidates for the left of Labour since the early 1950s. What would be
:34:31. > :34:34.a good result? If we meet the day after the local election, when the
:34:35. > :34:41.results have come in, what would you consider to be a good result? It is
:34:42. > :34:45.visibility and viability. This is the second interview I have done in
:34:46. > :34:49.four years. The first one was with you for years ago. Nobody else on
:34:50. > :35:05.BBC TV has looked at the politics outside the big parties, except
:35:06. > :35:09.UKIP. That is one of our big things. There are 160 towns, cities and
:35:10. > :35:17.boroughs in this country with polls on May the 2nd. At least half the
:35:18. > :35:21.country will hear a little bit of an anti-austerities message. If people
:35:22. > :35:25.watching this programme today, they have lost the care of the elderly in
:35:26. > :35:31.their community will stop they are saying, does it matter whether it is
:35:32. > :35:36.Labour, Tory or Liberal Democrats making that decision? Our tests, if
:35:37. > :35:42.you like, between now and May the 22nd, is to increase visibility and
:35:43. > :35:48.give hope to people. What would you regard as a good result the next
:35:49. > :35:53.day? We are defending one or two seats. We're not going to say we
:35:54. > :36:01.will win dozens. Labour itself, in its early years 100 years ago, with
:36:02. > :36:06.the hard march. Even UKIP with its first five Parliamentary elections
:36:07. > :36:09.averaged 1.7% of the Parliamentary vote. It would be easy with a
:36:10. > :36:15.differences them. We are where we are. We have the biggest challenge
:36:16. > :36:21.for the left in 60 years. We will give people hope. Do you think that
:36:22. > :36:25.the left has an opportunity to breakthrough or has that opportunity
:36:26. > :36:36.posted that donate, has it already gone? It appears to have gone. --
:36:37. > :36:41.post 2008. I agree that the first past the post system makes it very
:36:42. > :36:45.difficult for small parties to breakthrough. I was curious, do you
:36:46. > :36:55.think the country would be better governed if we had maybe eight or
:36:56. > :37:03.ten significant small parties, the Green Party and others putting
:37:04. > :37:07.together coalitions? At the moment, there is an overlapping agenda on
:37:08. > :37:17.posterity. The argument is that used to take place within those parties
:37:18. > :37:22.were first marginalised. They are not given the prominence they should
:37:23. > :37:26.be given. If different arguments could come forward, you had a
:37:27. > :37:33.conversation about recall of MPs. They have got that in America. You
:37:34. > :37:37.have to have different parties to make real differences. We do not yet
:37:38. > :37:41.have that in this country. That is why we are standing to create the
:37:42. > :37:48.conditions in which a new Workers' Party can grow. Thank you for being
:37:49. > :37:52.with us. Now we are going to talk about tough choices. You've already
:37:53. > :37:56.made one. You could be watching Bargain Hunt on BBC One, or a repeat
:37:57. > :37:59.of the House of Elliot on ITV3 but you've opted to watch the Daily
:38:00. > :38:03.Politics instead. Politicians like to bandy the word around when it
:38:04. > :38:06.comes to public services but are us human beings actually any good at
:38:07. > :38:09.making decisions? Adam's been to his local Tesco to investigate.
:38:10. > :38:17.Choose chopped tomatoes, choose chilli sauce, choose from a lot of
:38:18. > :38:20.olive oils. To understand why we're actually a bit rubbish at choosing,
:38:21. > :38:24.head for the aisle labelled spreads and preserves. In a famous
:38:25. > :38:30.experiment in California, shoppers were offered a choice of six kinds
:38:31. > :38:33.of jam or 24 kinds of jam. The people offered less choice bought
:38:34. > :38:36.more jam, which gave rise to the conclusion that people get freaked
:38:37. > :38:42.out if they are offered too much choice. Is that why 60% of
:38:43. > :38:46.households have never switched energy companies? As a result, the
:38:47. > :38:50.regulators have cut the number of tariffs dramatically. Is that why we
:38:51. > :38:58.waste an estimated ?5 billion a year by being on the wrong type of mobile
:38:59. > :39:01.contract? What about choice in say the health service? Under the choose
:39:02. > :39:04.and book system, you can pick the hospital where you will be treated
:39:05. > :39:08.as an outpatient. Fellow shopper David Boyle is an expert. He has
:39:09. > :39:11.studied choice in schools, hospitals and social care for the Government.
:39:12. > :39:18.How do the public choose their service? By picking the nearest one.
:39:19. > :39:21.It's important to them that their relative should be able to visit
:39:22. > :39:24.them in hospital regularly, they're not going to be miles and miles
:39:25. > :39:28.away. For schools, for instance, they need to get there in the
:39:29. > :39:34.morning. If they do not have proper transport, the choice is much
:39:35. > :39:38.narrower. He found that a majority of people like the idea of choosing
:39:39. > :39:42.their public service but they seem just as happy if they did not get a
:39:43. > :39:45.choice at all. This Harley Street cardiologist reckons it is because
:39:46. > :39:50.there are some areas of life where we don't want to make our own
:39:51. > :39:55.decisions. When we are ill and vulnerable, it is not the same as
:39:56. > :40:00.choosing a pasta or an olive oil. It is life and death, it is important.
:40:01. > :40:02.People want to be able to put their trust into a health care
:40:03. > :40:09.professional with their interests at heart. I think you need this and
:40:10. > :40:12.here is why. It turns out there are many theories about decision-making
:40:13. > :40:17.as there are pasta sauces on the shelf. We tend to be overly
:40:18. > :40:21.optimistic, we suffer from inertia. We can only process seven pieces of
:40:22. > :40:31.information at once. Far too many theories for me to bother picking
:40:32. > :40:38.which one is the right one. And Tim Harford is still with us. People
:40:39. > :40:45.like by and large supermarket choice. But do they really want
:40:46. > :40:49.choice? Can they make the same kind of choices in the public services?
:40:50. > :40:57.It is worth distinguishing different reasons my Wii like choice. -- why
:40:58. > :41:01.we like choice. I will not make a choice on your behalf because I
:41:02. > :41:05.respect you as an autonomous being. People like to be trusted to make
:41:06. > :41:10.their own choices and asked their views. Different people want
:41:11. > :41:13.different things. I want a different kind of pasta sauce and they might
:41:14. > :41:18.want a different birthing experience. The third reason is,
:41:19. > :41:22.even if you do not really care exactly what you get, you care about
:41:23. > :41:25.quality, offering people a choice might be a good stick to beat Severs
:41:26. > :41:31.revivals with and raise overall standards. I do not care whether I
:41:32. > :41:35.buy milk from Sainsbury's or Tesco but the fact I have a choice
:41:36. > :41:41.hopefully raises quality and raises service and lowers prices. This
:41:42. > :41:46.whole debate about choice is, we are very muddled about what we think it
:41:47. > :41:51.is actually supposed to achieve. My son is two years old. He sees me
:41:52. > :41:57.cooking in the kitchen. He has a little plastic cookery set. He
:41:58. > :42:02.copies me. He said he is making soup or whatever or mashed potato. I feel
:42:03. > :42:06.the choice agenda in public services is like that. You see the market,
:42:07. > :42:10.people see the market and say, people make choices on the market
:42:11. > :42:17.and that works pretty well. Things like choosing a book in the national
:42:18. > :42:20.health -- choose and book in the National Health Service, it does not
:42:21. > :42:24.really have the same content in the market. Hospitals are not going to
:42:25. > :42:29.go bankrupt because no one wants to go there. We're not comfortable with
:42:30. > :42:33.that idea in British services. People often say when it is a public
:42:34. > :42:39.service, I do not want choice, I just want the school at the end of
:42:40. > :42:43.My Road to be a good school. But the problem with saying that is, if the
:42:44. > :42:51.school at the end of the road is the only one you have a choice to go to,
:42:52. > :42:56.that may be the reason why, because it is a monopoly, it may not be a
:42:57. > :42:58.good school. Absolutely. If schools were subject to competitive
:42:59. > :43:02.pressures, schools would go bankrupt and be shut down. No one would want
:43:03. > :43:08.to go there. Other schools would start-up. When you phrase it like
:43:09. > :43:12.that, which is how the private sector in schooling works in this
:43:13. > :43:15.country, people start to feel uncomfortable. Pro-market people
:43:16. > :43:19.like me think that maybe there is a way that might be made to work. Most
:43:20. > :43:23.people do not like the idea and are not comfortable with the idea. Until
:43:24. > :43:29.you have that, the choice is really a bit of a Sherard. Most people do
:43:30. > :43:35.not have a choice of school they are happy with. There are things people
:43:36. > :43:41.who believe in choice to not talk about. It depends, to some extent,
:43:42. > :43:46.on overcapacity in the system. If the system is fully use, there is no
:43:47. > :43:50.choice. We see that in supermarkets with all the food that is thrown
:43:51. > :43:56.away. That is a more difficult thing in the public sector where there are
:43:57. > :44:02.scarce resources. It is unacceptable for a hospital to shut down. That,
:44:03. > :44:08.fundamentally, is what the market mechanism is. If it is no good, it
:44:09. > :44:13.closes. People do not seem comfortable with that. There is a
:44:14. > :44:17.question of information. Do people have information they need? In some
:44:18. > :44:22.cases, yes, people do have a sense of what a good school is and whether
:44:23. > :44:26.it fits their preferences. The cardiologist we heard from has a
:44:27. > :44:31.point. If I am having a heart attack, I want that seem to and I
:44:32. > :44:35.have no strong opinions about cardiologists. The other thing about
:44:36. > :44:41.choice that is not discussed or may be put under the carpet a bit, if
:44:42. > :44:45.choice is the important factor, in most things by definition, the
:44:46. > :44:51.better off you are, the more choices you have. That is the way the world
:44:52. > :44:59.works. We accept that in most cases. We get very queasy when it comes to
:45:00. > :45:08.health care. Or education. If we really saw a serious push for
:45:09. > :45:12.choice, there would be a hospital choice magazine or a trip advisor
:45:13. > :45:18.for schools. I do not think we are bare and I do not think we will get
:45:19. > :45:21.there. It is not with easy to imagine what really privatised,
:45:22. > :45:27.market-driven public services sector would look like.
:45:28. > :45:32.Are you a savvy shopper, it do you know the price of milk or bread?
:45:33. > :45:40.Knowing the price of house-call goods has been seen as a touch of
:45:41. > :45:44.how knowledgeable politicians are. Let's have a look at some senior
:45:45. > :45:52.politician strain to answer how much you would spend on milk or bread in
:45:53. > :46:04.one of their critics. What is the cost of a sliced white loaf? You can
:46:05. > :46:14.get one for a pound. The value of his 47p. I try to get my children to
:46:15. > :46:22.eat the sort of granary. Do you know how much you pay for it? No, because
:46:23. > :46:37.my wife buys most of it. I do check where it comes from. 80p. No, it is
:46:38. > :46:40.40p. One of the big ones. Not only are they too posh boys who don't
:46:41. > :46:44.know the price of milk, they are arrogant posh boys who showed no
:46:45. > :46:54.remorse, contrition, no passion to want to understand the lives of
:46:55. > :46:58.others. We are joined by leading Tories who
:46:59. > :47:04.you just saw. Her first novel is loosely based on her own experiences
:47:05. > :47:09.groaning map in Liverpool -- growing up in Liverpool. What is the price
:47:10. > :47:13.of not? If you go into a named supermarket, Tesco or Asda, you can
:47:14. > :47:18.get a full pint container for 90p. It's not so much the people of
:47:19. > :47:23.politicians know exact what the price of milk is in its own right,
:47:24. > :47:33.is it not a shorthand for people just wondering whether they are in
:47:34. > :47:41.touch or not? Bug is not expensive. The last time I looked was when 19
:47:42. > :47:45.raise this issue, and then I looked at the Marks Spencer is in the
:47:46. > :47:50.local railway station, Tesco, Sainsbury's, it was 49p in all of
:47:51. > :47:54.them. There is no benefit to knowing because the price was the same, I
:47:55. > :47:57.was about right and I am no way qualified to run the country and I
:47:58. > :48:01.should not be let anywhere near the reins of power even though I do know
:48:02. > :48:05.the price of a pint of not and it wasn't very much. That is five
:48:06. > :48:15.minutes work, at the minimum wage for top we are labouring the milk
:48:16. > :48:19.aspect. This point is you often hear politicians say, I set myself, I was
:48:20. > :48:22.brought up by council estate. That doesn't mean anything. Neither just
:48:23. > :48:28.knowing the price of milk. What I have tried to convey is the
:48:29. > :48:34.emotional responses that people feel who grow up in a background which is
:48:35. > :48:39.deprived, which is defined by poverty. And what that makes them
:48:40. > :48:45.into, the kind of people in two, in a political arena you need to
:48:46. > :48:49.understand that. The majority of people actually have a tough life,
:48:50. > :48:54.the majority of people struggle, the majority of people do not go to
:48:55. > :49:00.public schools. Doesn't matter politicians don't know the price of
:49:01. > :49:06.some basic foodstuffs people have to buy? It is probably on a scale of
:49:07. > :49:10.one to 20, number one, in what you have to do to understand the lives
:49:11. > :49:16.of others, to know what goes into a basic family shopping basket, and
:49:17. > :49:20.how much that costs, and what a family 's budget is a step number
:49:21. > :49:27.two. What the percentage of that budget is to go and do the stuff.
:49:28. > :49:31.People do the test, taking people to go and live on a council estate. The
:49:32. > :49:34.one I went to was much better than the one I was brought up on, but
:49:35. > :49:38.they will take them and it is something they give away. That
:49:39. > :49:42.doesn't actually feed into the emotional responses, the hurt and
:49:43. > :49:45.the anger and the upset people feel when they think politicians are out
:49:46. > :49:50.of touch with how they live their daily lives. What you say to the
:49:51. > :49:53.proposition that it is important politicians, particularly those who
:49:54. > :49:56.run the country, that economic policy, determine tax, and the
:49:57. > :50:01.public sector wage levels, they should know what the cost of a
:50:02. > :50:05.basket of basic provisions from the supermarket is. That doesn't mean
:50:06. > :50:11.anything until they know what the average wages. They probably do know
:50:12. > :50:17.that already. My colleague at the BBC, they used to test civil
:50:18. > :50:23.servants on this and they had no idea. Civil servants aren't
:50:24. > :50:27.elected. Elected politicians have an absolute responsibility to know what
:50:28. > :50:32.goes into the average family house in terms of income, the average
:50:33. > :50:35.wages, amateur costs to fill up the car, because until they do that they
:50:36. > :50:40.will not understand how people feel about the policies that they make
:50:41. > :50:43.which affect people 's lives. What is frustrating is it is a very easy
:50:44. > :50:48.criticism to make of a Prime Minister, that he she is out of
:50:49. > :50:54.touch. Because of course all prime ministers by definition lead lives
:50:55. > :50:58.that are very different to ordinary people. I fully agree it would be
:50:59. > :51:03.great if we have our diversity in politics, more diversity of
:51:04. > :51:09.background, it is just a very easy cheap shot to save the current
:51:10. > :51:11.incumbent in the ten Downing St doesn't live a life like ordinary
:51:12. > :51:17.people, because of course they don't. That is not the fundamental
:51:18. > :51:21.qualification to run the country, I know a lot of people have tough
:51:22. > :51:31.lives, they know exactly how much a basket or trolley costs, who I do
:51:32. > :51:34.not want running the country. One thing I would say as a result of my
:51:35. > :51:40.comment is David Cameron proper leaders now know how much the
:51:41. > :51:44.average basket of food costs. Apparently he is good to read my
:51:45. > :51:50.book over the Easter holidays. You stick by that comment Mr Cameron and
:51:51. > :51:53.Mr Osborne too posh boys who don't know the price of milk. I regret the
:51:54. > :51:57.use of the web posh and I don't have any issues with eating or public
:51:58. > :52:05.school, I saw my daughters to public school. I thought the fact they were
:52:06. > :52:10.posh was why they didn't know the price of milk. Did a user would
:52:11. > :52:19.arrogant? I do regret the use of the word posh. Zac Goldsmith is apparent
:52:20. > :52:23.bash fantastic MP, Boris Johnson, excellent MP. They both went to
:52:24. > :52:28.Eton. I have no issues with eating or posh schools. What about
:52:29. > :52:34.arrogant? I have issues with anybody who is arrogant, Andrew. You called
:52:35. > :52:43.them arrogant. I think probably they may have been but I doubt either of
:52:44. > :52:51.them are now. There is one fewer woman in the Cabinet as a result of
:52:52. > :52:53.Maria Miller and Mr Cameron had the opportunity to appoint another woman
:52:54. > :52:58.to replace that he didn't, it is a problem. I think women in the
:52:59. > :53:03.Cabinet and around the table and in politics is an absolute obsession
:53:04. > :53:08.with Westminster journalists and politicians. I doubt anybody, any of
:53:09. > :53:11.my constituents, actually care, or they are interested is the right
:53:12. > :53:14.person is doing the job. However, having said that, we do have a
:53:15. > :53:21.Cabinet and parliament which reflects the country. We are working
:53:22. > :53:23.towards that. What I want is the best people around the Cabinet,
:53:24. > :53:28.particularly at the moment, running the country. That is what I want to
:53:29. > :53:34.see. With only three in the Cabinet we have the best people. Even in
:53:35. > :53:37.Labour's cabinets, the only people who sat around the table were
:53:38. > :53:43.childless or wealthy. And that is another problem. We do have women
:53:44. > :53:46.who come around the table who may not be representative of the women
:53:47. > :53:50.out there because to be an MP in the first place and to be a woman MP and
:53:51. > :53:51.a mother and stay on the Cabinet is a difficult job unless you have a
:53:52. > :53:59.lot of money you don't have children .
:54:00. > :54:02.Now for a culture fix for top handbag is a play described as
:54:03. > :54:06.wickedly funny and transfers to the vaudeville Theatre in London's West
:54:07. > :54:08.End today for top looks at the relationship between Margaret
:54:09. > :54:13.Thatcher and the Queen. Imagining what went on in the meetings behind
:54:14. > :54:16.the palace's closed doors. For actresses play both older and
:54:17. > :54:21.younger versions of the formidable female duo. He was a short clip of
:54:22. > :54:25.the play to whet your appetite. I can remember an odd sense of
:54:26. > :54:36.loneliness when I received the call which summoned me to the palace. The
:54:37. > :54:38.Queen receives the authority to form a government. When one is re-elected
:54:39. > :54:45.one doesn't go, so that first meeting is unique. She was my
:54:46. > :54:52.eighth. Winston, said Anthony, Sir Alec. Dear Harold W. Heath. And Jim
:54:53. > :54:57.Callaghan. He bade me farewell that morning. It is affecting when they
:54:58. > :55:02.go. One doesn't have time to turn around. How goes the last and in
:55:03. > :55:05.comes the next with barely a pause. One has often built up a
:55:06. > :55:23.relationship. We are joined by Stella Gonet. What
:55:24. > :55:30.research did you do to get into the role? Research. It is hardly
:55:31. > :55:32.difficult, there is so much, the rather silly videos, books will stop
:55:33. > :55:42.and other relationship between the two, quite a lot on that? I suppose
:55:43. > :55:48.a lot of this is fun conjecture. It is a comedy. It is really good fun.
:55:49. > :55:57.They didn't get on, though, did they? Who are we to say? She
:55:58. > :56:05.mentioned the Queen very little. That is interesting. It is
:56:06. > :56:07.interesting to put two people together. To be forced to have
:56:08. > :56:11.weekly meetings for that many years, for two people who came from
:56:12. > :56:14.such different backgrounds, different worldviews, different
:56:15. > :56:20.interests, it will be a little awkward. Time magazine said this
:56:21. > :56:28.play would be loved by liberal royalists. What does that mean? I
:56:29. > :56:32.think Moira has got the balance right. It is a play that can be
:56:33. > :56:35.loved by both sides of the House, essentially for top of a slow we
:56:36. > :56:39.want both sides of the House to come along. It has got a lot to appeal to
:56:40. > :56:46.both sides. In playing this part, have you
:56:47. > :56:50.changed your views on Margaret Thatcher, you feel you know her
:56:51. > :56:59.better now, what have you learnt by playing her? Undoubtedly know her
:57:00. > :57:10.better. No more about what made... I feel sorry for her, is what I feel.
:57:11. > :57:16.Ultimately. In the film that came out, she did seem very sad and
:57:17. > :57:23.lonely. We're not talking about Streep's performance. All she had
:57:24. > :57:27.also politics so when that went she had nothing, where is the Queen has
:57:28. > :57:37.many passions, that is what keeps you going. Do you do the famous
:57:38. > :57:42.Sunday Times story? We do, indeed. That was mine. You have something to
:57:43. > :57:50.do with that, didn't you? She told me to a 9-point offer in the poles.
:57:51. > :57:57.-- it took nine points off her in the poles. It is running at
:57:58. > :58:00.affordable theatre, press night tonight, runs until the 3rd of
:58:01. > :58:06.August. Let's hope, if we get the audiences. People seem to be
:58:07. > :58:13.massively enjoying it in the previews. I want to come. Please do.
:58:14. > :58:17.It sounds fantastic. Just time to find the answer to the quiz. Which
:58:18. > :58:21.of these ministers is the odd one out following yesterday 's
:58:22. > :58:29.reshuffle? Ken Clarke Grant Shapps, Nicky Morgan or Sajid Javid? Sajid
:58:30. > :58:34.Javid, he was the first Asian in Cabinet. He's the only one entitled
:58:35. > :58:39.to attend the Cabinet in his own right, the other three getting only
:58:40. > :58:55.because they are invited. Thanks to our guests. I will be back tonight
:58:56. > :58:57.for This Week. And back here at noon as well. Goodbye.