:00:37. > :00:42.Afternoon folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. The former Deputy
:00:43. > :00:46.Speaker of the Commons, Nigel Evans, is cleared of all charges of sexual
:00:47. > :00:49.assault. So should he have been prosecuted in the first place? Mr
:00:50. > :00:54.Evans was cleared by a jury yesterday of nine counts, including
:00:55. > :00:58.one of rape. It's yet another high profile case where the prosecution
:00:59. > :01:08.case has collapsed. Is the Crown Prosecution Service fit for purpose?
:01:09. > :01:13.After the last 11 months nothing will be the same again.
:01:14. > :01:17.After the resignation of his Culture Secretary, David Cameron probably
:01:18. > :01:20.didn't want this to be the week to launch an election campaign. So will
:01:21. > :01:27.it damage the Tories in the upcoming European and Local elections?
:01:28. > :01:30.Anti-EU parties are on the rise across Europe. We report from the
:01:31. > :01:37.Netherlands on why voters are turning against the European
:01:38. > :01:40.project. And, he's a former banker and
:01:41. > :01:44.Treasury minister, but does he know anything about the arts? Just how
:01:45. > :01:55.cultural do you have to be to be the Culture Secretary? All that in the
:01:56. > :01:59.next hour. With us for the first half of the
:02:00. > :02:02.programme is the venerable Trevor Kavanagh, who writes for the Sun,
:02:03. > :02:16.and the journalist and broadcaster Miranda Green,. -- Green. Welcome to
:02:17. > :02:18.you both. The Director of Public Prosecutions has defended the
:02:19. > :02:23.decision to prosecute the Conservative MP Nigel Evans over a
:02:24. > :02:27.string of sex offence allegations. Mr Evans was cleared on all nine
:02:28. > :02:39.counts yesterday - including one of rape - by a jury at Preston Crown
:02:40. > :02:42.Court. Numerous MPs have criticised the decision to bring charges in the
:02:43. > :02:45.first place, and a former Director of Public Prosecutions, Ken
:02:46. > :02:47.MacDonald, says prosecutors risk "losing perspective" by going "on a
:02:48. > :02:55.mission" to pursue prominent figures. Well, the current Director
:02:56. > :03:06.of Public Prosecutions, Alison Saunders, had this to say this
:03:07. > :03:10.morning. Our mission is to prosecute cases fairly, and in accordance with
:03:11. > :03:14.the code for crown prosecutors and we do that no matter who the alleged
:03:15. > :03:19.defendant is, or who the victim is. We need to make sure that we do keep
:03:20. > :03:24.cool heads and look at the evidence objectively, which is what we do. He
:03:25. > :03:27.said she shouldn't shy away from taking difficult case, I think that
:03:28. > :03:30.is important that we don't take just cases that, where there is a
:03:31. > :03:36.certainty of conviction because we would be failing victims and failing
:03:37. > :03:39.in our duty to see justice is done. You have to remember there are
:03:40. > :03:44.victims who complained to the place which started the investigation. We
:03:45. > :03:49.have to be careful about some of the asummerions we make. Often victims
:03:50. > :03:53.don't see themselves as victim, and they may not see themselves as
:03:54. > :03:59.victims for all sorts of reason, such as the power of the allegeded
:04:00. > :04:04.of fender, the fact they are who only people who have shown them
:04:05. > :04:08.supposed love or affection, so we have to be careful about those
:04:09. > :04:12.assumptions. Joining me Conservative Bob Stewart, a friend of Nigel
:04:13. > :04:17.Evans. He testified on his behalf in the trial. Welcome to the daily
:04:18. > :04:21.politics, should this case have been brought? No Why? Because the
:04:22. > :04:25.evidence clearly wasn't enough for a prosecution. That was relatively
:04:26. > :04:28.clear when the witnesses went into the box and said I didn't really
:04:29. > :04:32.feel I was a victim. I didn't feel this was right. You know, I have
:04:33. > :04:36.known Nigel for a long time, Andrew, 20 years since I was in the army,
:04:37. > :04:41.and the one thing about him, he is no bully. He maybe silly at times
:04:42. > :04:46.but he is no bully. So why do you think it was brought? I don't know.
:04:47. > :04:53.I tell you this, what was, what happened. You have Nigel Evans
:04:54. > :04:57.career in bit, his wellbeing destroyed, his position as Deputy
:04:58. > :05:01.Speaker gone, and frankly, he told me last night when I spoke to him,
:05:02. > :05:05.he is concern head is will have to pay a huge amount of money in fees
:05:06. > :05:09.to lawyers, when he has been found not guilty, that is wrong. The
:05:10. > :05:13.lawyers always make money. I shouldn't make money out of Nigel.
:05:14. > :05:19.He is innocent. He didn't want to go to court and he has had his life
:05:20. > :05:26.ruined. It is more than 100,000. How can you compensate a man who has
:05:27. > :05:33.lost his career? Can it be put back on the rails again Yes. He has told
:05:34. > :05:39.me that he wants to, come back, get reestablished again, prove he is as
:05:40. > :05:44.good an MP as has been and stand well in the House. Everyone in the
:05:45. > :05:48.House of Commons wants him to come back and be reinstituted as quickly
:05:49. > :05:54.as possible. Then he can reestablish himself. He is not a rich man, I
:05:55. > :05:57.have been to his house. It is like a miner's cottagement to be asked to
:05:58. > :06:03.pay this money. If that is correct it is wrong. We have to sort that.
:06:04. > :06:10.Will he run again in the 2015 election? I dam well hope so, I hope
:06:11. > :06:15.the people in Ribble Valley feel that way because he has been through
:06:16. > :06:20.the mill. I want to talk about this Code of Conduct, let me go to the
:06:21. > :06:24.BBC in Salford, Kim Harrison is a lawyer from Slater and Gordon. This
:06:25. > :06:31.case should never have been brought, should it? It collapsed. Just to
:06:32. > :06:36.clarify, Slater and Gordon acts in civil compensation for abuse victim,
:06:37. > :06:39.this is an unusual case, and while we weren't involved in this case and
:06:40. > :06:43.I can't comment on the specific circumstances, I do know from
:06:44. > :06:47.reading the coverage that a number of the alleged victims have
:06:48. > :06:53.themselves expressed surprise about why the case was brought, but I
:06:54. > :06:57.think that we need to look at this in perspective. These celebrity
:06:58. > :07:02.cases are a small proportion of the number of sexual assault and rape
:07:03. > :07:07.and abuse case, which happen each year, and we don't... I understand
:07:08. > :07:11.this but this is about a man whose life has been ruined, even though he
:07:12. > :07:16.has won. The point I put to you is this should never have been brought?
:07:17. > :07:21.As I say, it wasn't, it wasn't anything to do with us, or Slater
:07:22. > :07:26.and Gordon. I am not accusing you, I am asking for you opinion. Let me
:07:27. > :07:29.put this. Only two of the alleged victims had complained to the
:07:30. > :07:35.police. The police then went on a trawl for the other ones, only two
:07:36. > :07:39.volunteered. One of the alleged victims said he never wanted a
:07:40. > :07:43.prosecution. Another claimed he was traumatised. But stayed friends with
:07:44. > :07:48.Nigel Evans, and describes him as an all round good egg. Another admitted
:07:49. > :07:53.he embellished his account for dramatic effect. I say to you, this
:07:54. > :07:58.case should never have been brought. I think the police and the CPS have
:07:59. > :08:05.a really really difficult job in these sorts of cases, and there have
:08:06. > :08:09.been convictions in celebrity case, look at the Stuart Haul convictions
:08:10. > :08:12.and the role of the CPS and the police isn't to decide whether
:08:13. > :08:15.somebody is guilty. That is the role of the jury, that is what the jury
:08:16. > :08:19.have done in this case. If anything it shows that the criminal justice
:08:20. > :08:22.system in this country is functioning well, if the jury have
:08:23. > :08:27.listen toed the evidence, and reached their verdict, but if you
:08:28. > :08:30.had a situation where every case that was brought that resulted in
:08:31. > :08:34.the conviction, that would surely say something about the criminal
:08:35. > :08:37.justice system as well. I can assure you it is not working well for never
:08:38. > :08:45.this morning, even though he has won. My point to you, why would the
:08:46. > :08:49.Crown Prosecution Service proceed with a case in which the police had
:08:50. > :08:53.to trawl for victims in the first place and even when it found them,
:08:54. > :08:58.some said they didn't think it should go to court. Why would you do
:08:59. > :09:03.that unless you were out for a celebrity scalp? Well I think you
:09:04. > :09:07.would have to ask the CPS that. I think the real problem is not false
:09:08. > :09:11.claims but low reporting rates for rape and sexual abuse cases, that is
:09:12. > :09:14.the real problem, and victims who are scared to come forward because
:09:15. > :09:17.they are scared they are not going to be believed. Do you have no
:09:18. > :09:23.sympathy for Nigel Evans this morning? Sorry? Do you have no
:09:24. > :09:26.sympathy for him? Of course I have great sympathy for Nigel Evans. The
:09:27. > :09:30.system you are defending has done this to him We need to look at this
:09:31. > :09:35.in the context of the overall scale of this problem, where the vast
:09:36. > :09:39.majority of people who are abused are not abused by celebrities or
:09:40. > :09:43.people in the public eye, they are abused in their own homes, these are
:09:44. > :09:48.the people that are lost and forgotten and the people we need to
:09:49. > :09:52.be concentrating on. So why don't the authorities concentrate on them,
:09:53. > :09:58.instead of going for celebrity scalps where the case is weak? There
:09:59. > :10:01.were clearly issues in this case which prosecutors need to learn from
:10:02. > :10:04.and I am sure as we speak, that people are looking at what happened,
:10:05. > :10:09.and learning those lessons but you know, my job here isn't to sit up
:10:10. > :10:13.here defending whether or not Nigel Evans should be prosecuted, but we
:10:14. > :10:18.stand... But you have. No I haven't. I I have said there is a bigger
:10:19. > :10:21.problem in society, with low reporting rates of abuse victim,
:10:22. > :10:25.because people are scared that they are not going to be believed. What
:10:26. > :10:28.we have to be very careful of is because we have had a couple of
:10:29. > :10:31.cases where people have been acquitted, that we don't roll back
:10:32. > :10:35.all of the good work that has been done over the past couple of years
:10:36. > :10:40.with people feeling more confident at coming forward to report abuse,
:10:41. > :10:45.and the police and the CPS taking it serious -- seriously, the real issue
:10:46. > :10:48.is protecting the victim, the vast majority of victims whose cases
:10:49. > :10:52.never come to court. I understand that, nobody could argue with that,
:10:53. > :10:57.but that wasn't what I was asking you about. Any way, thank you for
:10:58. > :11:01.joining us. This is the legal profession closing ranks. I think
:11:02. > :11:04.that the Crown Prosecution Service and indeed the police have questions
:11:05. > :11:08.to answer on this and I think you have raised a few this morning
:11:09. > :11:13.already. Kim was saying there that this is just a small number of the
:11:14. > :11:20.cases that have been raised and brought to court, but in fact they
:11:21. > :11:28.represent a vast expenditure of resources and manpower, and as, as
:11:29. > :11:37.Mr Evans's lawyer said last night, the CP S through everything at this
:11:38. > :11:44.case. -- threw everything at this case. This is indicative of the way
:11:45. > :11:49.they are operating. The Elveden case which is in a way similar has more
:11:50. > :11:53.police on it than any other previous criminal inquiry in history and that
:11:54. > :11:59.includes murder inquiries, now I it seems to me ?100 million being spent
:12:00. > :12:02.on one case or in this case 100,000 in one lawyer's case is totally
:12:03. > :12:05.disproportionate and it is the question of proportion here that is
:12:06. > :12:09.important. It is not whether or not prosecutions should take place, it
:12:10. > :12:16.is a question of proportion and degree. Kim was right to argue you
:12:17. > :12:19.want people to come forward, and there are people sometimes are
:12:20. > :12:24.deterred from coming forward. That is not the issue in this case. It
:12:25. > :12:29.seems the issue in this case is that the police and the Crown Prosecution
:12:30. > :12:35.Service precede proceeded on what they had from the victims, was
:12:36. > :12:39.flimsy. Exactly so and they persuaded people to testify who said
:12:40. > :12:45.they did not stheemss as victims, now I think that Kim had interesting
:12:46. > :12:51.things to say, because I am very worried that in bringing these cases
:12:52. > :12:54.that fail, the CPS is doing victims of very serious sexual assault and
:12:55. > :12:59.rapes a disservice, what you are saying today is a massive backlash
:13:00. > :13:02.because of this care, and also because of the Coronation Street
:13:03. > :13:07.case, which think was a couple of months ago now, and there is already
:13:08. > :13:13.a terrible set of rape myths which result in juries acquitting, when
:13:14. > :13:18.they should convict. This sort of case will encourage the attitude
:13:19. > :13:22.that people are been ex ashusly put on trial. You think the kind of
:13:23. > :13:27.cases which Kim was talking about, what has happened to Nigel Evans
:13:28. > :13:31.doesn't help that. It doesn't help it a at all. Listening to a talk
:13:32. > :13:34.radio discussion last night there were hundreds queueing up to say we
:13:35. > :13:41.must have anonymity for rape accused, you know, which is
:13:42. > :13:45.something that resurfaces every year, which is terrible was a you
:13:46. > :13:50.need victims to come forward you don't need the police and the CPS
:13:51. > :13:54.they are victims when they don't feel to be so. Look that the wider
:13:55. > :14:01.problem of Westminster culture, so bad, that your parties had to
:14:02. > :14:05.release a voluntary Code of Conduct for MP, outlining suitable
:14:06. > :14:13.behaviour. What do you think of that? I haven't read it. I will be
:14:14. > :14:16.very worried. -- MPs. A voluntary Code of Conduct. I don't see what is
:14:17. > :14:23.going to be said in it, but I do know that people should know how to
:14:24. > :14:33.behave decently any way. If you have a MP you should know any way. It is
:14:34. > :14:37.meant to combat bar, older men, with young researcher, mail and female --
:14:38. > :14:41.male and female behaviour. You have had to have a Code of Conduct. You
:14:42. > :14:47.can't behave yourselves without a Code of Conduct. You are looking at
:14:48. > :14:51.me! When I said you, I meant you collectively. I will try my best to
:14:52. > :14:56.behave. In the best... You have seen this behaviour? I don't see it as
:14:57. > :15:02.bad as that. No, I mean, frankly I just don't see that. Some people act
:15:03. > :15:07.out of line, in any profession. I guess that is true in most places. I
:15:08. > :15:11.really don't see that MPs are really, they are not drunk, people
:15:12. > :15:18.come up to them. Sometimes they are drunk! If they are others say away
:15:19. > :15:23.know, sometimes they don't get... Sometimes they get hit. Yes, so far
:15:24. > :15:27.no-one has hit me Andrew. I wouldn't be surprised. They wouldn't try you.
:15:28. > :15:33.I am glad to hear that, I really don't see much of it. And frankly, I
:15:34. > :15:38.just hope that this will get behind, Nigel Evans will come back, and
:15:39. > :15:41.please the public, belief that the vast majority of Members of
:15:42. > :15:47.Parliament are trying to do their very best, me, I feel I am back in
:15:48. > :15:56.uniform, serving my country and all MPs think that. Now it's time for
:15:57. > :15:59.our daily quiz and today it's about the new Culture Secretary Sajid
:16:00. > :16:03.Javid. He's only been in the job for a few days but already some critics
:16:04. > :16:12.are predictably asking if the former banker is cultured enough for the
:16:13. > :16:16.job. Well, we don't know much about his tastes - although he's a regular
:16:17. > :16:20.on this show so they must be pretty good, but we do know he's a fan of
:16:21. > :16:23.one popular science fiction programme. So what is it? Is it: a)
:16:24. > :16:31.Doctor Who, b) Blake's seven, c) Star Trek, or d) red Dwarf? And a
:16:32. > :16:34.bit later in the show Miranda and Trevor will give us the correct
:16:35. > :16:37.answer. Yesterday the Conservative Party launched it's European
:16:38. > :16:42.election campaign and here is the shiny manifesto in all its glory.
:16:43. > :16:45.And, if that momentous event passed you by, well, it's no wonder really,
:16:46. > :16:48.as most of Westminster was talking about the Nigel Evans case and the
:16:49. > :16:52.fallout from the resignation of Maria Miller. Not exactly the ideal
:16:53. > :16:55.week to launch an election campaign! Anyway, as well as the European
:16:56. > :16:58.elections, there are also local elections taking place on the 22nd
:16:59. > :17:02.of May. So what's at stake? In England there'll be elections in 129
:17:03. > :17:05.councils, as well as in all 32 London Boroughs, plus contests for
:17:06. > :17:17.directly elected mayors in Watford and four London boroughs: Hackney,
:17:18. > :17:20.Lewisham, Newham and Tower Hamlets. There are no local elections in
:17:21. > :17:23.Wales or Scotland but there will be in Northern Ireland as their 26
:17:24. > :17:28.councils begin to merge into 11 super councils. All in all, that's
:17:29. > :17:34.around 4,180 seats - just under half of which are in London. But there
:17:35. > :17:38.will be UK wide elections for seats in the European Parliament with 73
:17:39. > :17:41.seats up for grabs via a closed party list system except in Northern
:17:42. > :18:06.Ireland where it's a Single Transferable Vote. STV. It used to
:18:07. > :18:09.be a television station in Scotland. The latest TNS European election
:18:10. > :18:12.poll shows Labour and UKIP neck and neck with the Conservatives trailing
:18:13. > :18:16.third. They'll be hoping to make up some ground over the next few weeks.
:18:17. > :18:19.Here's what the Prime Minister had to say at yesterday's launch of the
:18:20. > :18:26.Conservative manifesto. We are the only party with a clear plan.
:18:27. > :18:39.Renegotiate, get the best deal for Great Britain and put the decision
:18:40. > :18:48.to the British people. For the next six weeks, let's head the street and
:18:49. > :18:52.at every rally, every meeting, let take out this message. Labour and
:18:53. > :18:57.the Liberal Democrats will not give you a say on Europe. UKIP cannot
:18:58. > :19:00.Joining us now from Glasgow is Professor John Curtice from
:19:01. > :19:03.Strathclyde University who is the man we turn to when elections come
:19:04. > :19:06.into view. Change a thing at all. It is only the Conservatives who can
:19:07. > :19:08.make real change in Europe and only the Conservatives will give you the
:19:09. > :19:15.say in a referendum. That was the Prime Minister. I would suggest you
:19:16. > :19:20.that neither the Maria Miller business or the Nigel Evans is Ms
:19:21. > :19:24.will have any effect on the elections? I think that is probably
:19:25. > :19:34.broadly correct. My only caveat would be that given one of the
:19:35. > :19:40.arguments from Nigel Farage is to say there will be a plague on all
:19:41. > :19:45.your houses. The publicity had given him ammunition but I do not think it
:19:46. > :19:51.would be an important issue. I think what one needs to realise is that
:19:52. > :19:58.these elections, all three Westminster parties will simply be
:19:59. > :20:02.looking to see how well UKIP do. The Labour Party will be desperate to
:20:03. > :20:08.remain ahead of UKIP in the UK wide vote. Most surveys put them narrowly
:20:09. > :20:13.ahead. The Conservatives will be wanting to minimise the damage from
:20:14. > :20:17.UKIP that there is no doubt, if you look at the surveys, the people who
:20:18. > :20:23.are switching to UKIP are the ones who disproportionately vote for
:20:24. > :20:31.Conservatives. The Liberal Democrats are asking, how far behind will we
:20:32. > :20:33.be in fourth place? The surveys on how you vote in the European
:20:34. > :20:41.elections are very different to the surveys that tell us the sake of the
:20:42. > :20:47.parties. Yes, the truth is that that has been par for the course for
:20:48. > :20:50.elections for some time. Voters are more willing to vote for smaller
:20:51. > :20:56.parties, not just UKIP, but also the Green Party. Partly because they do
:20:57. > :21:00.not think it matters so much but partly because we have a system of
:21:01. > :21:08.proportional representation. UKIP, on average, in the surveys, are
:21:09. > :21:16.running at 28%. In surveys in Westminster, they are running at
:21:17. > :21:18.14%. Undoubtably, people will vote Conservatives in a Westminster
:21:19. > :21:25.election but will about UKIP later on. The other thing that helps UKIP
:21:26. > :21:29.is that UKIP voters tend to be strongly motivated and this will
:21:30. > :21:35.undoubtedly be a low turnout election, and that turns out well
:21:36. > :21:40.for UKIP. In the USA, for a long time, they have had this to men of
:21:41. > :21:49.splitting the ticket. You may vote Democrat, or the Mayor, or you could
:21:50. > :21:52.vote Republican. Given that we have the European elections and local
:21:53. > :21:57.elections on the same day, is it likely that people will split the
:21:58. > :22:03.ticket, and vote in a particular way for European elections but vote more
:22:04. > :22:09.like the USA for the local elections? Yes, we anticipate that
:22:10. > :22:13.UKIP would do better in the European elections than local elections but
:22:14. > :22:16.what happened in the last European elections in 2009, when they were on
:22:17. > :22:26.the same day as County Council elections, the evidence suggested
:22:27. > :22:30.that it does help UKIP to do better in local elections. We should bear
:22:31. > :22:41.in mind that in the local elections last year, UKIP did better than
:22:42. > :22:45.Westminster intentions, 22 in the nationwide poll. We may find UKIP
:22:46. > :22:52.doing well in the local elections, with one caveat. These local
:22:53. > :22:57.elections are primarily in rural rather than urban Britain. London is
:22:58. > :23:04.the focus, and London is more multicultural and diverse, and is
:23:05. > :23:14.less and of UKIP than much of Britain outside of the capital. --
:23:15. > :23:18.less and enamel. If UKIP does well. --, does it matter? What is the
:23:19. > :23:22.matter? I think they will come first and it is disgraceful that Labour is
:23:23. > :23:26.anywhere near coming second stop I think the live cams will be
:23:27. > :23:31.effectively wiped out. I think that has an effect not just on the local
:23:32. > :23:38.elections but on the mood of the public generally. For a while now,
:23:39. > :23:42.people have been prepared to vote quite differently in European
:23:43. > :23:45.elections compared to how they wrote in Westminster elections. I think
:23:46. > :23:51.that changed after the two debates when Nigel Farage emerged as
:23:52. > :23:57.something as a figurehead for his voters. He is now formally
:23:58. > :24:00.entrenched as the voice against the establishment, the metropolitan
:24:01. > :24:04.elite, and I think that will continue over the next few months,
:24:05. > :24:15.up to the next election. He says you would be wiped out? I hope not. I
:24:16. > :24:22.think he has put the cat among the pigeons. They will hope that is not
:24:23. > :24:26.the case but it is true that with the poll rating the way it is and
:24:27. > :24:28.the proportional representation system for the European elections,
:24:29. > :24:40.the Lib Dem 's do not have their usual advantages where the incumbent
:24:41. > :24:43.is well liked. You have this system where according to the proportion of
:24:44. > :24:51.the vote, you only get one or two. It is a dangerous system. People are
:24:52. > :24:56.talking about it and that would be bad, not least because you lose a
:24:57. > :25:01.number of spokespeople. With the Lib Dems, you lose a number of females
:25:02. > :25:03.who are thin on the ground, but I do not agree with Trevor's take that
:25:04. > :25:08.European elections are very important. There is not that much at
:25:09. > :25:13.stake and traditionally they are used for people to make a massive
:25:14. > :25:21.protest against established parties. Look at the Green Party and the
:25:22. > :25:25.success they have. It may have no affect the am I right in thinking
:25:26. > :25:32.that if you look at the longer trend in the state of the parties in the
:25:33. > :25:38.polls over the last year, there has been a gradual but steady narrowing
:25:39. > :25:42.of Labour's lead over the Conservatives? I would put it
:25:43. > :25:50.differently. Labour's vote share fell over the summer of 2013, and
:25:51. > :25:53.despite its campaign on the cost of living, that has failed to restore
:25:54. > :26:01.the Labour Party back to the 40% plus Mark. The Conservatives are
:26:02. > :26:05.still running at the 33% that they have been running for the last three
:26:06. > :26:11.years, and so far, although the voters are somewhat more optimistic
:26:12. > :26:14.about the economy, that is proving to be a difficult recovery as far as
:26:15. > :26:18.the Conservatives are concerned. Even if the Lib Dems do as badly as
:26:19. > :26:24.the opinion polls suggest they will do in the European elections, they
:26:25. > :26:29.should pick up three or four seats. 9% is what the opinion polls are
:26:30. > :26:35.pointing towards. They should still pick up some seeds. Beware of the
:26:36. > :26:43.Liberal Democrats opus billing -- over spilling. We will be aware.
:26:44. > :26:47.Thank you, John. For more on the elections, join me this Sunday for
:26:48. > :26:53.Sunday Politics at 2:30pm, just after the London Marathon. We will
:26:54. > :26:56.host a debate on Europe between the four main parties. Normally at
:26:57. > :26:59.around this time we'd all be speculating about when the Prime
:27:00. > :27:03.Minister is going to announce the date of the next general election.
:27:04. > :27:10.But all that fun's been taken away because it's fixed in law. It'll be
:27:11. > :27:13.on May the 7th next year. But have the great British public already
:27:14. > :27:20.made up their minds about which way to vote? Only one man has the balls
:27:21. > :27:25.to find out. We've got the balls, we've got the
:27:26. > :27:29.box, so let's find out when it comes to the 20 15th general election, our
:27:30. > :27:35.people fixed or floaters who are yet to decide? When will you decide?
:27:36. > :27:43.Possibly not until the final month. It is all play for? Yes, it is. When
:27:44. > :27:47.will you decide, how will you make the decision? Five minutes before on
:27:48. > :27:51.the way to the polling station. Would you like to vote in our
:27:52. > :28:01.survey? Do you follow the political news as it happens? Not as it
:28:02. > :28:05.happens but I feel like I am aware. If you are not going to decide
:28:06. > :28:11.nearer the election, does that mean politics is a bit of a waste of
:28:12. > :28:17.time? No, not at all. I am more interested in local issues. I am
:28:18. > :28:24.fixed. Would it take something major to change your mind? Yes, it
:28:25. > :28:30.worked. Not John Major, but Major Major! Do you know when the next
:28:31. > :28:38.general election is? It is in May 2015. I had not heard about it. So,
:28:39. > :28:49.you are sort of fixed and sort of floaters? Yes, we have to float to
:28:50. > :28:54.make maximum impact. Do you feel the political parties are reaching out
:28:55. > :28:59.to you to win your vote? No. This is a productive way of looking at all
:29:00. > :29:05.of the stop have you ever seen the Daily Politics programme? No, I have
:29:06. > :29:11.not. This week, we had the Maria Miller resignation. Do events like
:29:12. > :29:17.that make difference to you? Yes, they. Will David Cameron be still
:29:18. > :29:25.around is when he is old enough to vote? I doubt it. Do you know who
:29:26. > :29:30.any of those people are? Boris Johnson! Yes! Do you feel the
:29:31. > :29:36.political parties are trying to win you over? Yes, there was a lot of
:29:37. > :29:44.talk but I know where my vote is going. Which political party is
:29:45. > :29:49.winning over owners of small dogs? The Conservative party and maybe the
:29:50. > :29:58.Lib Dems. Guys, do you want to park up and do a survey? I am fixed, but
:29:59. > :30:01.it has been the same for years, I have not really changed my mind and
:30:02. > :30:10.I do not know what would change my mind. I have no idea. What would win
:30:11. > :30:18.you over as my have you decided who to vote for or are you floating?
:30:19. > :30:21.Floater is not a nice term. Of our many people who are undecided which
:30:22. > :30:30.is great because otherwise we may as well pack up and come home and come
:30:31. > :30:35.back next May. Give me your predictions. What will your results
:30:36. > :30:39.be? The Conservatives should win. The
:30:40. > :30:43.voteless recovery, I don't think that is going to continue. We will
:30:44. > :30:49.see the economy beginning to become the big issue, if they play it
:30:50. > :30:56.right, instead of bungling it, I think they could easily win the next
:30:57. > :31:04.election. By win, what to you mean, overall party or majority. It might
:31:05. > :31:07.be a small majority. They would have to increase their share of the vote.
:31:08. > :31:16.Who was the last Prime Minister to do that? Antony Eden? But the thing
:31:17. > :31:19.is... 1955. The The recovery will be deeper and wide wider than before.
:31:20. > :31:24.That is a career answer, what is your answer? I think the
:31:25. > :31:29.Conservatives will win. Because the Labour advantage in the polls at the
:31:30. > :31:34.moment is nothing like as wide as it needs to be. As you get near a
:31:35. > :31:38.general election the opposition party it narrows and narrows because
:31:39. > :31:43.of all the things the incumbent party can say, I think there will be
:31:44. > :31:48.the Conservatives at the largest party, but I think there will be a
:31:49. > :31:51.coalition, the question is is it a coalition between the Tory party and
:31:52. > :31:56.the Liberal Democrats again, or is it a coalition between two sides of
:31:57. > :32:01.the Tory party. Constantly at war as they were towards the ends of John
:32:02. > :32:06.Major's. So when you say win you mean the largest party. If there is
:32:07. > :32:11.a narrow majority you will see a coalition. It will be two sorts of
:32:12. > :32:14.Tories in coalition. Will there be enough Liberal Democrats round to
:32:15. > :32:17.contribute to a coalition? I think there will. The polling is
:32:18. > :32:20.interesting on this, because although the Liberal Democrat
:32:21. > :32:26.overall rating is truly horrendous, you know, being in single figures,
:32:27. > :32:31.in their individual constituencies they are so good at clinging on.
:32:32. > :32:40.Easterly showed that in the by-election. The satisfaction rate
:32:41. > :32:48.for for you to like your MP it is positive. That would mean they are
:32:49. > :32:52.vulnerable where there isn't an incumbent. You would hope there is a
:32:53. > :32:55.legacy, because there are a lot of women standing. We might see some
:32:56. > :32:59.women in the Liberal Democrats. That would be nice. It would be a change.
:33:00. > :33:04.Certainly would. Time to get the answer to our quiz. The question was
:33:05. > :33:11.what science fiction show is new Culture Secretary Sajid Javid a fan
:33:12. > :33:19.of? Doctor Who? Blakes Seven? Star Trek? Or Red Dwarf? What is the
:33:20. > :33:25.correct answer. I would go for Blakes Seven. I think it is Star
:33:26. > :33:30.Trek. Miranda is right. It is Star Trek. Does it matter that we are not
:33:31. > :33:34.able to establish this Culture Secretary has any interest in
:33:35. > :33:37.culture. I don't think he has. There isn't any evidence. We must assume
:33:38. > :33:42.there is precious little. Does it matter? Does the department matter?
:33:43. > :33:46.Do we need a Department of Culture, Media and Sport? I think no. Of
:33:47. > :33:51.course the coalition doesn't low -- allow this to happen. When Maria
:33:52. > :33:58.Miller fell on her sword was that not the time to take down the
:33:59. > :34:01.department? In the long-term it would be nicer to see fewer
:34:02. > :34:06.department, but I think this should stay. How would you mount an
:34:07. > :34:09.Olympics without a DCMS? Creative industries are important for the
:34:10. > :34:14.economy, big export, and how would you mount an Olympics if you didn't
:34:15. > :34:17.have someone like Tessa Jowell... There will be other opportunity,
:34:18. > :34:22.cultural and sporting. We need to leave it there. Coming up in a
:34:23. > :34:27.moment is a regular look at what is going on in European politics. Now
:34:28. > :34:32.it is time to say goodbye to my two guests of the day. So, for the next
:34:33. > :34:37.half hour we will be focussing on Europe. We will discuss the rise of
:34:38. > :34:39.the anti-EU vote, across Europe, and the groupings on the European
:34:40. > :34:49.Parliament. First though, here is our guide to the latest from Europe
:34:50. > :34:54.in 60 seconds. Greece jumped back into the global
:34:55. > :34:57.markets wits first sale of long-term Government bonds since the economy
:34:58. > :35:05.almost collapsed four years ago. The sale was welcome news ahead of a
:35:06. > :35:10.visit from Angela Merkel. Tempers playered in the Ukraine Parliament.
:35:11. > :35:12.Following a heated debate about pro Russian activists using Government
:35:13. > :35:18.buildings in several Ukrainian cities.
:35:19. > :35:20.-- playered. Spanish MPs voted against Catalonia's bid for an
:35:21. > :35:24.Independence Referendum in a decision that is likely to increase
:35:25. > :35:30.the divide between both sides. Listed companies across the EU must
:35:31. > :35:39.get shareholder approval on pay for top executives. Under a draft law.
:35:40. > :35:42.We past the vote... Who says politicians the aren't down with the
:35:43. > :35:44.kids. Members of the European Parliament have been in a rap battle
:35:45. > :35:59.to engage young voters. And with us for the next 30 minutes
:36:00. > :36:02.I have been joined by Martin Callanan, the MEP for the
:36:03. > :36:06.Conservatives and Catherine Stihler MEP for Labour. Let us look at one
:36:07. > :36:12.of the stories in more detail. Greece. It managed to get its bond
:36:13. > :36:16.issue away. It is back in the bond markets. I would suggest this is
:36:17. > :36:19.party -- partly because in the bond market there is a search for
:36:20. > :36:24.a-year-old and Greece is offering more than the Germans or the British
:36:25. > :36:27.or the Americans and the country is still mired in stagnation. I think
:36:28. > :36:31.you are right. Think I that things are difficult in Greece. This is to
:36:32. > :36:37.be becomed but it is a fragile state of affair, we all want to see things
:36:38. > :36:40.recovering in Greece because of the measures imposed on the Greek people
:36:41. > :36:45.and the sacrifices they have made. It is shocking, when you talk to
:36:46. > :36:50.Greek colleagues, it is a really really dire situation. However, this
:36:51. > :36:56.fragile news, is to be welcomed but it is a long way to go. Is there a
:36:57. > :37:01.concern in the European Parliament about what are called the club meed
:37:02. > :37:07.countries in general, Portugal, Spain, Greece, Cyprus, probably
:37:08. > :37:12.Italy. Slovenia That they are on the verge of apse deflationary trap? We
:37:13. > :37:16.saw that prices in Spain are falling, industrial production,
:37:17. > :37:23.prices at the gate, in Greece, Cyprus, Portugal, falling. I think
:37:24. > :37:27.the iron anyof the euro is that it was supposed to cement solidarity,
:37:28. > :37:31.it is doing the opposite. It is driving northern Europe away from
:37:32. > :37:37.southern Europe. All those countries are diverging, Greece is by no means
:37:38. > :37:42.out of the woods yet. They have completely unsustainable levels of
:37:43. > :37:46.debt and somebody will have to pay that, and I think it is hugely
:37:47. > :37:49.concerning, because there is no obvious solution in sight, because
:37:50. > :37:54.the competitiveness of northern around southern Europe are
:37:55. > :37:57.different. You talked about the sacrifices Greek people have made
:37:58. > :38:03.and they have made more than anyone else in Europe. Yet, as a result
:38:04. > :38:08.this deflationary trend which Magifies the level of their public
:38:09. > :38:13.debt, that is rising, they have raised the tax, they have cut public
:38:14. > :38:20.spend, they have made people unemployed. Their debt has ridden
:38:21. > :38:25.from 130% to 170 per % of GDP. We should acknowledge the fact it has
:38:26. > :38:28.been a right-wing agenda that has been imposed on the Greek people
:38:29. > :38:37.would boy have been different if there had been a different political
:38:38. > :38:43.flavour in power. If you look... I think you have to accept as well,
:38:44. > :38:47.Martin, that the euro is reforming, it is changing, the lessons are
:38:48. > :38:52.being learned. This week we will vote on the banking union and other
:38:53. > :38:58.issues, but I think also you can't escape from the fact that the
:38:59. > :39:02.austere measures imposed on the Greek people have been because of
:39:03. > :39:10.the politics the at play. It hasn't brought the debt down. No, it is
:39:11. > :39:14.going up. Austerity means paying your way, the Labour Party might
:39:15. > :39:18.want to argue you can keep on spending and spending without
:39:19. > :39:25.raising the money. That is no what we are saying. In France they were
:39:26. > :39:30.elected on an end to austerity. Food banks are on the rise in many tri.
:39:31. > :39:34.The European elections are the first than European poll since the
:39:35. > :39:40.European crisis that brought the currency union to the brink of
:39:41. > :39:43.collapse. It has cost many their job. The fall out has led to a
:39:44. > :39:47.growing frustration with the European project. Right wing parties
:39:48. > :39:50.the like the Front Nationale in France and Geert Wilders's Freedom
:39:51. > :39:55.Party in the Netherland are expected to do well, stranding on an anti-EU
:39:56. > :40:06.platform. Here is our Ben Wright reporting.
:40:07. > :40:13.The European dream has gone sour, for some. Belgian dock workers
:40:14. > :40:18.joined other trade unionist at this protest in Brussels last week. Most
:40:19. > :40:21.rallied peacefully for the EU to work better. A few picked a fight
:40:22. > :40:28.with police. The talk here in Brussels is of a European Union in
:40:29. > :40:32.trouble. Austerity, economic crisis and high unemployment in several
:40:33. > :40:37.countries is spawning disillusionment with the whole
:40:38. > :40:42.European project. In northern Europe it is the anti-EU right who are
:40:43. > :40:47.doing well, in southern Europe it was the anti-austerity left who Ron
:40:48. > :40:50.the rise. When MEPs come back after the May elections there will be many
:40:51. > :40:56.who have won their seats because of their opposition to Brussels, even
:40:57. > :41:02.in countries that are pro European. -- who are on the rise. Tolerant,
:41:03. > :41:07.liberal and green, the Netherlands of pop lab cleesh pedals on,s the it
:41:08. > :41:12.was one of the founding countries of what is the European Union. Half an
:41:13. > :41:17.hour from Amsterdam has emerged. At the last European elections the
:41:18. > :41:24.Freedom Party won half the vote in a town of 20,000. That, the party of
:41:25. > :41:29.Geert Wilders. The hard right populist who rails against Muslims
:41:30. > :41:35.and the EU. It won four MEPs and topped the poll in the Netherlands,
:41:36. > :41:45.some will back him again The Freedom Party? Yes, they are popular. It is
:41:46. > :41:50.good. Why? For free country. It is terrible. These people come to
:41:51. > :41:55.Holland to take the job from Dutch Palace res. It is not good. This
:41:56. > :41:59.place isn't buzzing with euro election fever. Several people have
:42:00. > :42:04.spoken to don't know there is a pom and many have no interest at all in
:42:05. > :42:08.voting. Something common across the Continent. What is surprising that
:42:09. > :42:12.this pretty little town with its tourists and tea shops is somewhere
:42:13. > :42:18.where the far right have done well in the past.
:42:19. > :42:24.Look round, you don't see any black people over here. It is... Geert
:42:25. > :42:35.Wilders at a rally last month. When the crowd calls for fewer Moroccans
:42:36. > :42:40.this is what he said. The police received hundreds of complaints he
:42:41. > :42:45.was invite -- inciting racial hatred. This man was a member of the
:42:46. > :42:49.Freedom Party before he was thrown out in 2010. He says this time the
:42:50. > :42:54.party leader has gone too far The way he said about the Moroccan
:42:55. > :43:02.community is racism. He will go to jail. He has to go to jail for it.
:43:03. > :43:07.It is too far. Let me put it in English. Do you want less Welsh
:43:08. > :43:13.people? Do you want less Scottish people. Less people from York? No,
:43:14. > :43:18.it is not possible. In France Jean-Marie Le Pen has tried to
:43:19. > :43:22.rebrand -- Marine Le Pen has tried to rebrand the National Front.
:43:23. > :43:26.Willeders has suggested a pact of far right parties but their support
:43:27. > :43:31.could be fragile. Some of them are more radical right
:43:32. > :43:36.than UKIP. UKIP is not a racist party. Nigel Farage is careful to
:43:37. > :43:41.say that. He is anti-open borders, this is a thing parties in scanned
:43:42. > :43:47.neighia are saying, they are likely to top the polls in Denmark, they
:43:48. > :43:52.say we are not racist, we are anti-European and we want less done
:43:53. > :43:58.in Brussels. UKIP said it would never join the likes of Le Pen and
:43:59. > :44:02.Willeders but here in the Hague the centrist coalition knows they must
:44:03. > :44:06.do more to rebuild trust in Brussels. When you look at the next
:44:07. > :44:14.European Commission, they should have a limited agenda, strengthening
:44:15. > :44:19.the single market. Making trade agreements and really making work,
:44:20. > :44:22.so transferring powers from Brussels to the member state, that is the
:44:23. > :44:26.only way to preserve Europe for the future.
:44:27. > :44:31.The far right in the Netherlands may struggle to beat its success at the
:44:32. > :44:35.last European elections but Geert Wilders could find himself in
:44:36. > :44:40.Brussels joining other MEPs whose hostility to the EU has hit home
:44:41. > :44:43.with voters. Ben right reporting from the
:44:44. > :44:52.Netherlands. Another country where the far right is riding high is
:44:53. > :45:00.France where Marine Le Pen's Front Nationale made significant gains.
:45:01. > :45:05.They took on over there, largely at the ex owned of Francois Hollande's
:45:06. > :45:14.Socialist Party. We are joined by Emmanuel Godin a heck return at
:45:15. > :45:19.Portsmouth university. Would it be fair to say that this phenomenon of
:45:20. > :45:26.going outside the mainstream, the National Front in Europe is the most
:45:27. > :45:29.successful case? Yes, it is one of the most successful parties in
:45:30. > :45:38.Europe and it is doing particularly well at the moment. It has also
:45:39. > :45:43.worked a lot on its own image and strategy and that accounts for its
:45:44. > :45:48.success at the moment. If you look at some of the places it did well,
:45:49. > :45:53.former industrial towns in the north, it did well in Marseille, one
:45:54. > :45:57.of the biggest districts, what is striking is that they are all,
:45:58. > :46:04.historically, the old readouts of the Communist Party. Is it the same
:46:05. > :46:10.people? Yes, that is right. For a long time, a lot of people thought
:46:11. > :46:15.the National Front would do well but what we are witnessing is a
:46:16. > :46:26.substantial shift from traditionalist and socialist voters
:46:27. > :46:29.towards the National Front. When we described the National Front in this
:46:30. > :46:34.country, we call it the far right, but when you look at the economic
:46:35. > :46:39.policies, in this country, they look like the kind of things Tony Benn
:46:40. > :46:55.used to stand for. Protectionism, anti-euro... It is quite clear. The
:46:56. > :47:01.National Front has distanced itself from its old policies and does not
:47:02. > :47:08.adopt a right or left stance at all. The policy put forward by the
:47:09. > :47:15.National Front is more of a left recipe. In the local elections in
:47:16. > :47:20.France, there were thousands of municipalities up for the vote, and
:47:21. > :47:23.the National Front only confronted about 560. This time, in the
:47:24. > :47:30.European elections, they have to fight nationwide. What would be a
:47:31. > :47:38.good vote for them? -- a good result for them? If they get about 20, that
:47:39. > :47:43.would be a good result. Usually, the National Front 's does very well if
:47:44. > :47:51.there is a strong leader. People vote for Marine Le Pen rather than
:47:52. > :47:57.the part V, but -- rather than the party, but it can do well without a
:47:58. > :48:04.recognisable leader. You have places where the candidate was fairly
:48:05. > :48:13.unknown and it shows that people tend to vote more for the National
:48:14. > :48:22.Front than whoever is leading it. Will be centre-right parties come
:48:23. > :48:29.first? Well, this is the big debate. The last result showed that
:48:30. > :48:38.the Conservative party in France might just come first. They are at
:48:39. > :48:45.22%. The Socialist party is at 20%. Let me bring my guest in. One of the
:48:46. > :48:50.consequences of this rise parties outside of the mainstream, mainly on
:48:51. > :48:55.the right, is that your party is likely to come third in the
:48:56. > :48:58.elections. Well, we will have to see in elections and there was a long
:48:59. > :49:05.way to go in the campaign. You are a long way behind in the votes. Yes,
:49:06. > :49:11.if you believe the polls. There will be a low turnout and it is up to us
:49:12. > :49:21.to try and enthuse the rotors to get out and vote. -- voters. You should
:49:22. > :49:26.be romping home in the European elections but, actually, you have a
:49:27. > :49:33.battle on your hands to beat UKIP. We have to go and fight for every
:49:34. > :49:41.single vote. Obviously, in Scotland and other parts England and Wales,
:49:42. > :49:49.where UKIP is threatening, we are trying to make sure we get as many
:49:50. > :49:54.votes against Labour so we can fight against the Nationalists. We think
:49:55. > :50:03.it is about the UK being part of the European Union, not about whether
:50:04. > :50:07.Scotland should be part of the UK! At a time when unemployment in the
:50:08. > :50:13.Eurozone is 12%, and youth unemployment is over 20%, and in
:50:14. > :50:22.some countries it is as high as 60%, Conor Mizar barely growing, welfare
:50:23. > :50:30.is being cut, poverty is growing... -- unemployment is growing. Though
:50:31. > :50:35.our simple answers to questions. They are antiestablishment and there
:50:36. > :50:41.is this perfect storm of coming together. You are the establishment.
:50:42. > :50:49.When it comes to forming political groups, these people cannot work
:50:50. > :50:56.together. My political party has a which covers 28 countries. That may
:50:57. > :51:05.be true but that is not what I asked. Why has the left... We now
:51:06. > :51:13.see what the fallout is from the crisis of capitalism but why has the
:51:14. > :51:16.left not capitalised on that? Why is it the rights or the far right
:51:17. > :51:32.question my I think you are generalising. The BNP are nowhere.
:51:33. > :51:35.Yes, but UKIP. What we see is that a Socialist group could be the largest
:51:36. > :51:42.group in a European Parliament. Why has the left done well? In the
:51:43. > :51:47.European Parliament elections, if we get one more MEP, we then get that
:51:48. > :51:52.chance to form the presidency of the European Commission. The National
:51:53. > :52:01.Front are not a right party. They are highly welfare spending, more
:52:02. > :52:13.socialism, with a nationalist hinge. -- tinge. The French National Front
:52:14. > :52:20.are no more conservative than the Conservative party. Let me go back
:52:21. > :52:23.to my guess. -- guest. I guess it is not surprising when you look at the
:52:24. > :52:28.state of Europe and the lack of opportunity, growth, and jobs for
:52:29. > :52:32.young people, it is not surprising that non-mainstream parties are
:52:33. > :52:37.doing well. Indeed, you may have thought they would do even better, I
:52:38. > :52:42.would suggest. Well, mainstream parties, the main problem they
:52:43. > :52:47.have, they seem to have tried out different solutions which do not
:52:48. > :52:50.appeal with voters. They do not see how that can make a difference to
:52:51. > :52:55.their daily life and that is the great strength for the parties on
:52:56. > :53:03.the left and right. In France, it is not surprising that the left is not
:53:04. > :53:10.doing so well. For maybe 15 years, the Conservative parties and
:53:11. > :53:12.socialist parties in France have put immigration and identity at the
:53:13. > :53:17.centre of their issues and a radicalised these issues, and this
:53:18. > :53:22.explains why it is the right, and not the left. Who is going to be the
:53:23. > :53:32.centre-right candidate in the French European election? Yes. Know, who is
:53:33. > :53:44.going to be? Well, certainly not Sarkozy. Marine Le Pen? Well, we
:53:45. > :53:52.shall wait and see and have you back long before then. Do you know your
:53:53. > :53:56.EPP from your S and D, and your GUE from your EFA? They do! They are
:53:57. > :54:04.paid to. Fear not, here's Adam to explain in his latest A to Z of
:54:05. > :54:11.Europe. Look at all of those MEPs, more than 700 of them. To make
:54:12. > :54:14.things more manageable, the Parliaments operates a pan-European
:54:15. > :54:17.political grouping, and this being the European Parliament, there is
:54:18. > :54:23.some crazy art on display that allows me to explain. Think of the
:54:24. > :54:27.groups as political armies. Each one has to have at least 25 foot
:54:28. > :54:33.soldiers from at least seven member states. You want to join a group you
:54:34. > :54:39.do not know which one is which? Let me explain. There are seven to
:54:40. > :54:44.choose from. On the centre-right, there is the European People's
:54:45. > :54:50.Party, the largest. There is the European Conservatives with 7%.
:54:51. > :55:00.Here, you will find the Tories. The Socialists And Democrat has a
:55:01. > :55:04.quarter of the seats. UKIP's home is the freedom and democracy group.
:55:05. > :55:16.There are two smaller groups of Greens and nationalist. Sometimes,
:55:17. > :55:22.the majority line is one but there are two or three parties who are
:55:23. > :55:26.going to vote with other groups. This is a process of permanent
:55:27. > :55:32.negotiation. Do the political groups get any perks? They do. They get
:55:33. > :55:37.funding to spend on staff, offices and communications. Political perks
:55:38. > :55:42.are in the lead up waste on group size. More members equals more
:55:43. > :55:48.influence. Has anyone set up any new groups recently? A very young
:55:49. > :55:53.looking David Cameron set up the Young Conservatives and reformist
:55:54. > :56:02.after pledging to withdraw his MEPs from the European People's Party.
:56:03. > :56:05.The MEPs who sit alone in The Chamber are known as the
:56:06. > :56:09.non-attached. Some are shunned for holding extreme views and others
:56:10. > :56:18.because they are fiercely independent. This man was in the
:56:19. > :56:27.socialist group. From day one, I was turned into a soldier, and I got a
:56:28. > :56:30.lot of letters from voters, saying, you have written and interesting
:56:31. > :56:39.books as a journalist, I voted for you as an individual. As we know,
:56:40. > :56:43.the troops are preparing for a big skirmish in the European elections
:56:44. > :56:49.which could mean a change in the balance of power.
:56:50. > :56:56.That is Adam who has taken to talking to in a minute objects! --
:56:57. > :57:01.inanimate objects! How important are these groups? They are very
:57:02. > :57:04.important. They determine the power and how we vote on these things.
:57:05. > :57:09.They are very important and influential. Was it a mistake for
:57:10. > :57:15.your party to come out of the mainstream right grouping? No, not
:57:16. > :57:21.at all. We could not agree with the Federalist group. They wanted more
:57:22. > :57:26.control of taxation and we did not agree with that. We thought it was
:57:27. > :57:37.right to set up an alternative group who we did agree with. You are
:57:38. > :57:46.source of aid Lee no mates in Europe, aren't you? No, not at all.
:57:47. > :57:57.-- Giuly no mates. -- Billy no mates. There are not many, the that
:57:58. > :58:03.is a fair point. Is there much difference between the mainstream
:58:04. > :58:12.centre-right group and the socialist group? No. That is not true! There
:58:13. > :58:19.are clear differences in terms of social policy. You can see, in the
:58:20. > :58:24.Parliament, votes can come down to the wire, it is so close. In the new
:58:25. > :58:30.Parliament, the votes will be, again, very close. You are sitting
:58:31. > :58:34.here as the leader, and it looks like you are going to have a tough
:58:35. > :58:44.time in creating a group, which is a good thing. I want to see a strong
:58:45. > :58:48.socialist group. Thank you very much. That's all for today. Thanks
:58:49. > :58:54.to my guests Martin Callanan and Catherine Stihler MEP. We wish you
:58:55. > :59:02.buy buy. -- Bye bye.