:00:34. > :00:41.It's the morning after the Queen's Speech.
:00:42. > :00:45.So we know how Parliament's going to be spending the next year.
:00:46. > :00:47.But does it add up to a bumper political agenda
:00:48. > :00:53.Or was it all just a bit of a rag bag of legislative odds and sods?
:00:54. > :00:56.There were new laws on pensions, childcare, slavery and plastic bags.
:00:57. > :00:59.We'll be talking to the minister responsible for taking
:01:00. > :01:03.Ministers have been out and about trying to damp down the row
:01:04. > :01:06.between Michael Gove and Theresa May over how to tackle extremism.
:01:07. > :01:10.As rows go, it was a biggie, but where does it leave the Governemnt's
:01:11. > :01:17.We all remember those long hot days back in 2010
:01:18. > :01:21.when two parties decided how to get along together in coaltion.
:01:22. > :01:28.If it happens again after next year's election,
:01:29. > :01:37.And we'll be hearing from Tim Booth, lead singer of the band James,
:01:38. > :01:47.on why it is time to free our bodies from the ties of religion.
:01:48. > :01:51.All that in the next hour, and with us for the duration, Peter Hennessy.
:01:52. > :02:03.He's says he likes gossip and French wine.
:02:04. > :02:11.Well Peter, on this show we rarely have any of those things.
:02:12. > :02:14.The polls are open in the Newark by-election triggered
:02:15. > :02:17.by the resignation of the former Tory MP Patrick Mercer following
:02:18. > :02:24.We can't talk about the vote today for fear of influencing your vote -
:02:25. > :02:27.as if we would - but fear not, I'll be back this evening
:02:28. > :02:30.when the polls close for a marathon of by-election coverage
:02:31. > :02:40.So yesterday, Her Majesty bought her brand new golden coach
:02:41. > :02:43.down the road to Westminster for the annual state opening of Parliament.
:02:44. > :02:46.She was there to read out the Government's planned
:02:47. > :02:49.parliamentary business for the year up to the election, and
:02:50. > :03:00.the coalition said it proved they were still "fizzing" with ideas.
:03:01. > :03:07.Was this really any different to any other Queen's Speech? No, it wasn't.
:03:08. > :03:12.These words can take on a resonance of their own. I remember when we
:03:13. > :03:16.worked together, it was always inconvenient if you had worked out
:03:17. > :03:21.the story in your head and it did not quite fit the events as they
:03:22. > :03:26.transpired! Because what we have swerve very good at was instantly
:03:27. > :03:31.minting new cliches. I think it is quite wrong to call it a zombie
:03:32. > :03:34.parliament. I think the Modern Slavery Bill is very important, and
:03:35. > :03:39.the pensions stuff is of great significance and promise. Zombie it
:03:40. > :03:44.was not, but the fag end government is always like that. The nerve ends
:03:45. > :03:51.are getting more and more excited about the prospect. The tribes are
:03:52. > :03:56.starting to align for the next election. The emotional geography of
:03:57. > :04:01.the last year of a parliament is always interesting. And there is
:04:02. > :04:04.always the lens of the upcoming election? That's right. There is
:04:05. > :04:08.always something which could happen which could change the political
:04:09. > :04:13.weather, some international event, for example. And there is one big
:04:14. > :04:16.thing which was not mentioned in the Queen's Speech, because you cannot
:04:17. > :04:22.legislate for it, which is a possible independent Scotland. In
:04:23. > :04:25.September, if Scotland decides to separate, the preoccupation of
:04:26. > :04:31.Whitehall will be hell on earth to make it operable. All hands will be
:04:32. > :04:33.to that pump, and our nation will change, the configurations of the
:04:34. > :04:38.nation, but also the emotional make-up of the nation. You cannot
:04:39. > :04:44.legislate for that. And for reasons I have never understood, the Cabinet
:04:45. > :04:50.decided there should be no contingency planning for Scottish
:04:51. > :04:52.separation. So that will all have to start on the 19th of September, from
:04:53. > :04:56.scratch! So we know that the Queen had
:04:57. > :04:59.a brand-new coach - central-heated, I hear - she's slowly catching up
:05:00. > :05:02.with the modern motor car. But what exactly was that "fizz"
:05:03. > :05:05.in Her Majesty's Most Gracious Yesterday was
:05:06. > :05:13.the coalition's last Queen's Speech before the general election next
:05:14. > :05:16.year, and there were 11 new bills. They included a Private Pensions
:05:17. > :05:19.Bill which introduces new "defined ambition" collective pension
:05:20. > :05:22.schemes, allowing people to pay into A Childcare Payments Bill, which
:05:23. > :05:27.introduces a new tax-free childcare subsidy worth up to ?2,000 a year
:05:28. > :05:31.per child, from the autumn of 2015. There was a Modern Slavery Bill that
:05:32. > :05:34.will punish those convicted of the most serious offences with
:05:35. > :05:38.life sentences - others will be subject to restrictions
:05:39. > :05:41.on their movements and activities. The courts will also be able to
:05:42. > :05:46.order offenders to compensate A Social Action, Responsibility
:05:47. > :05:52.and Heroism Bill, which helps people who are sued after intervening
:05:53. > :05:57.in emergencies or acting to protect And there's a Recall of MPs Bill -
:05:58. > :06:06.voters will be able to trigger a by-election where an MP has
:06:07. > :06:10.committed serious wrongdoing, but There are also six bills that are
:06:11. > :06:23.being carried over from the 2013-14 parliamentary session -
:06:24. > :06:25.including the controversial High Speed Rail Bill, which has led
:06:26. > :06:31.to suggestions that some Let's speak now to Thomas Docherty,
:06:32. > :06:49.who's Shadow Deputy Leader So, hardly says on the parliament?
:06:50. > :06:55.Where the Government has set out steps, such as the Newark, such as
:06:56. > :06:57.the Modern Slavery Bill, we will obviously work with them, but this
:06:58. > :07:01.is also a missed opportunity. There is nothing at all about the National
:07:02. > :07:04.Health Service, nothing about helping hard-pressed families with
:07:05. > :07:08.the cost of energy. There was nothing at all about immigration. It
:07:09. > :07:14.is a real missed opportunity. This is a government which has both run
:07:15. > :07:19.out of steam as well as ideas in many of these important areas. Let's
:07:20. > :07:23.look at immigration - would you like to see fewer immigrants to Britain
:07:24. > :07:28.from the European Union? Obviously, we had a really important speech
:07:29. > :07:33.from Ed Miliband last week where he set out in some detail the Labour
:07:34. > :07:36.Party's approach. We think immigration is a good thing for our
:07:37. > :07:42.country, but it has to be managed properly. So do you want fewer
:07:43. > :07:46.immigrants? There is a dividing line, isn't there, in labour? Tony
:07:47. > :07:50.Blair said anti-immigration language is very dangerous, people should not
:07:51. > :07:55.be blaming immigrants if they are struggling to get a job. And then we
:07:56. > :07:59.had another senior Labour figure, John Denham, saying that Labour
:08:00. > :08:04.should be honest about what they are trying to do, which is to cut the
:08:05. > :08:12.number of EU migrants - who is right? Obviously it is Ed who is
:08:13. > :08:17.white. He was not in that choice! He is the only party leader who
:08:18. > :08:21.actually seems to listen to the concerns raised by our constituents.
:08:22. > :08:24.But he also has the courage to say, we think immigration is a good
:08:25. > :08:29.thing. We think people want to come here to study and work, and to help
:08:30. > :08:35.the economy, and that is a good thing. What we need is a managed
:08:36. > :08:39.immigration policy. After four years, this government has failed to
:08:40. > :08:43.hit its own targets on immigration. So you do not think there should be
:08:44. > :08:50.a target, and you think the freedom of movement of people within the EU
:08:51. > :08:52.should continue unabated? We are clear that we want to work with the
:08:53. > :08:59.Government to have a sensible policy. What is that policy? Having
:09:00. > :09:02.false targets, and Theresa May set a bizarre target for the number of
:09:03. > :09:09.migrants, which was spectacularly missed. Look, the key thing is, it
:09:10. > :09:15.is not about coming up with artificial targets... But people
:09:16. > :09:21.would like to know, would Labour like to see fewer people coming from
:09:22. > :09:26.the EU to work here? Is that why you are clamping down on dodgy agencies,
:09:27. > :09:29.enforcing the minimum wage, all of these things, it is all about trying
:09:30. > :09:36.to deter people coming here to work from the EU, is that the case? It is
:09:37. > :09:37.not about determined people, it is about stopping unscrupulous
:09:38. > :09:44.employers from taking advantage of people. That is what Ed set out in
:09:45. > :09:47.Thurrock last week, it was a really gutsy speech. He is the only party
:09:48. > :09:52.leader who has said anything on immigration. Ian Austin, one of your
:09:53. > :09:58.Parliamentary colleagues, yesterday asked David Cameron why there was no
:09:59. > :10:04.bail for an in-out referendum in this Parliament - do you think there
:10:05. > :10:08.should be? We have brought in a very important referendum which is coming
:10:09. > :10:16.up in September. That is our priority. We want to keep the UK
:10:17. > :10:19.together. So, no chance of Ed Miliband offering an in-out
:10:20. > :10:22.referendum on the EU going into the election? I am not going to start
:10:23. > :10:31.making policy announcements ten months away from an election. That
:10:32. > :10:35.is for Ed Miliband. Let's look at the NHS - would you like to see
:10:36. > :10:41.Labour promise a bigger health budget? Andy Burnham has said
:10:42. > :10:49.clearly that we want to make sure... Would you like to see more
:10:50. > :10:53.money spent on the NHS? It is not about restructuring, it is about
:10:54. > :10:59.getting value for the money that we spend. But do you think more should
:11:00. > :11:05.be spent on the NHS, because of all the talk that there is going to be
:11:06. > :11:12.this massive black hole in funding, should Labour promise to spend more
:11:13. > :11:17.on the NHS? I think it is an important issue for every voter, and
:11:18. > :11:23.you're right, Labour has got a very good track record on the NHS. A
:11:24. > :11:26.recent poll found that only 29% of people agreed that Labour was the
:11:27. > :11:29.most trusted party to run the Health Service, is that why you are
:11:30. > :11:35.planning to say, leading up to the election, Labour will spend more, it
:11:36. > :11:39.will be intense in taxes to pay for the NHS? Again, I am not going to
:11:40. > :11:45.start making policy announcements on The Daily Politics. What is true is
:11:46. > :11:48.that more people trust Labour with the Health Service more than they
:11:49. > :11:54.trust the coalition parties, and rightly so. That is why Andy Burnham
:11:55. > :11:57.has announced that we are going to be rolling back some of the
:11:58. > :12:03.privatisation that we have seen introduced by Andrew Lansley and his
:12:04. > :12:09.colleagues over the years. One final go - can you rule out an increase in
:12:10. > :12:14.national insurance contribution to pay for increased spending on the
:12:15. > :12:18.NHS? It has been widely reported. One of your colleagues, Frank Field,
:12:19. > :12:24.says he thinks voters will go for that, is it going to happen? What we
:12:25. > :12:28.have heard this morning is various backbench colleagues, the person who
:12:29. > :12:32.will make these announcements is Ed Miliband, he is the leader. He will
:12:33. > :12:43.set out exactly where we stand as we get closer to the election.
:12:44. > :12:46.With us now is the man responsible for the Government's legislative
:12:47. > :12:55.programme, Andrew Lansley, the Leader of the House of Commons.
:12:56. > :13:00.Let's look at a couple of things in this Queen's Speech. What is
:13:01. > :13:06.Conservative about a 5p tax on carrier bags? We are a government
:13:07. > :13:10.and the party which is committed to improving our environment. Being
:13:11. > :13:16.Conservative is doing things which are practical. I think we have
:13:17. > :13:20.acknowledged, I know how it works in Wales, people take it seriously,
:13:21. > :13:25.they have changed their behaviour. Sometimes you need a nudge, this is
:13:26. > :13:33.going to be a pretty hefty nudge towards a much more environmentally
:13:34. > :13:36.friendly solution. People will be making a contribution to charity,
:13:37. > :13:43.some ?20 million per year, we estimate. Another tax on ordinary
:13:44. > :13:47.people? Insofar as they do not reuse their carrier bags. I quite like
:13:48. > :13:54.nudges, if people do not want to pay, then they can easily avoid
:13:55. > :13:57.paying for the carrier bags. And the ones that people use time and time
:13:58. > :14:06.again are actually hotbeds of various viruses, have you taken that
:14:07. > :14:10.into account? My friends at DEFRA are responsible for that. It is a
:14:11. > :14:18.policy which has been adopted in Wales and Northern Ireland... That
:14:19. > :14:22.does not make it right. If there are any issues like that, it is a matter
:14:23. > :14:31.for DEFRA. The point you make would be true anyway. But you will be
:14:32. > :14:38.forcing them to do it. Anyway, the Lib Dems told you to do it, didn't
:14:39. > :14:40.they? No, it was a coalition policy. It was not in the coalition
:14:41. > :14:46.agreement? No, but we have worked together. In the last session of the
:14:47. > :14:49.Parliament, you are more likely to see as completing the coalition
:14:50. > :14:56.programme, but also dealing with other issues are things like the
:14:57. > :15:04.Serious Crime Bill, which are not necessarily... Let's look at one of
:15:05. > :15:11.the other measures, the ability to recall your MP if they have been
:15:12. > :15:17.behaving particularly badly, putting a mechanism in place, though not as
:15:18. > :15:21.strong as some would have liked. Which MPs in this Parliament do you
:15:22. > :15:30.think would have been subject to recall? It depends on the house. We
:15:31. > :15:35.structure the provision. We are clear that one of the triggers would
:15:36. > :15:39.be any custodial sentence, so Denis MacShane, who was tried and
:15:40. > :15:43.convicted there was a custodial sentence, he would have been subject
:15:44. > :15:48.to disqualification and recall as a consequence of that. In fact, it
:15:49. > :15:52.would have been recall rather than disqualification because it was not
:15:53. > :15:57.beyond 12 months. The second part of that serious wrongdoing where the
:15:58. > :16:02.house has decided that somebody should be subject to recall, the
:16:03. > :16:06.criteria that are going to be a matter for continuing discussion. We
:16:07. > :16:09.brought forward a draft bill and are sticking to a basic structure, but
:16:10. > :16:15.to precisely identify that is yet to come. And there have been issues
:16:16. > :16:18.about whether it should be an MP suspended from the service of the
:16:19. > :16:22.House of Commons were given period of time. That is something are
:16:23. > :16:26.discussing. In a proper recall system it would not be up to you, it
:16:27. > :16:32.would be up to the electors in the constituents. It is a recall system.
:16:33. > :16:36.You could still block it if you wanted to. It's a matter of whether
:16:37. > :16:42.the House of Commons has concluded there is serious wrongdoing that has
:16:43. > :16:46.taken place. There is a different proposal for a recall system which
:16:47. > :16:51.is, as you might say, call it pure rather than proper. The pure system
:16:52. > :16:55.would be a large number of constituents petitioning for an MP
:16:56. > :16:58.to be recall. There are two arguments against it. The recall is
:16:59. > :17:05.the general election. When you have judgements on an MP, our view is
:17:06. > :17:09.that our judgements, the decisions we take, the popularity of those,
:17:10. > :17:13.those are subject to recall, as it were, and re-evaluation at the time
:17:14. > :17:17.of the general election. What happens if the MP goes badly wrong
:17:18. > :17:23.in the first year? What if he does exactly the opposite of everything
:17:24. > :17:26.he said and is caught by all sorts of things? If you leave it to the
:17:27. > :17:32.election, you are still stuck with him or her for five years. There are
:17:33. > :17:36.two things. One is doing things that your constituents might not approve
:17:37. > :17:39.of, which is a political judgement. MPs are sent to the House of Commons
:17:40. > :17:42.to exercise their judgement, not necessarily to do the things agreed
:17:43. > :17:45.with by the majority of their constituents on each item as you go
:17:46. > :17:54.along. Evidence in previous parliaments, like the rock wall --
:17:55. > :17:58.the Iraq war. But if serious wrongdoing takes place in the first
:17:59. > :18:01.year, that is what it is about. What wrongdoing has happened in this
:18:02. > :18:10.parliament that would be subject to this recall Bale? I mentioned Dennis
:18:11. > :18:14.McShane. Maria Miller? It depends on the nature of the criteria. She was
:18:15. > :18:17.not subject, from the standards committee, to the recommendation
:18:18. > :18:23.that she be suspended. Patrick Mercer? He was subject to the
:18:24. > :18:28.recommendation, so the distinction might emerge there. He resigned
:18:29. > :18:33.anyway, so it might not have come to that. Recall is a powerful weapon,
:18:34. > :18:39.and people know that if they commit serious wrongdoing, they cannot just
:18:40. > :18:43.simply ignore that and take a suspension and simply carry on
:18:44. > :18:51.regardless. In this important argument between Theresa May and
:18:52. > :18:59.Michael Gove, the extremism, whose side are you on? I'm not a member of
:19:00. > :19:03.some of the extremism task force. But we know what the divisions are.
:19:04. > :19:06.They are working together to get this right. We all know what we are
:19:07. > :19:13.setting out to do, which is to have a strategy of counterterrorism which
:19:14. > :19:19.is about protecting ourselves against terrorism and preventing it
:19:20. > :19:22.and preventing the longer term. -- preventing it in the longer term.
:19:23. > :19:26.They have had a robust debate, but I don't think it's right to
:19:27. > :19:30.characterise them as being on the one hand of dealing with long-term
:19:31. > :19:34.issues that lead to the circumstances for terrorism to
:19:35. > :19:38.emerge and just dealing with terrorism. That is not how any of us
:19:39. > :19:43.can deal with this. We are working together to make sure that we
:19:44. > :19:47.prevent the circumstances and the incidence of terrorism. If you are
:19:48. > :19:49.working together why did the Home Office released the text of a letter
:19:50. > :19:55.attacking the education Department at two a.m.? Frankly, I don't know.
:19:56. > :20:01.It doesn't suggest harmony to me. Does it do you? What it suggests is
:20:02. > :20:04.there is a thing going on where people are trying to explain their
:20:05. > :20:09.respective positions. At two in the morning? The government should be
:20:10. > :20:14.conveying what actually happened yesterday. Michael Gove said that we
:20:15. > :20:17.should ignore it, and they then both explained how they were working
:20:18. > :20:22.together. After the Prime Minister bang their heads together. They put
:20:23. > :20:27.that out together. I couldn't see any bruises yesterday. I saw Theresa
:20:28. > :20:31.yesterday and I didn't see any bruises. I was talking about Michael
:20:32. > :20:34.Gove. Well, I didn't see him yesterday. There's a big job in the
:20:35. > :20:40.European commission coming up. Who do you think would be a suitable
:20:41. > :20:44.candidate? I think the Prime Minister will say who he thinks
:20:45. > :20:46.should be that person. Of course. It is his power to appoint. But who do
:20:47. > :20:50.you think would be a suitable candidate? I think the Prime
:20:51. > :20:55.Minister will make judgement and we will leave it to him. Commissioner
:20:56. > :21:02.Lansley sort of rolls off the tongue. Not my tongue. It rolled off
:21:03. > :21:10.mine. Let the Prime Minister make the decision will all be better. But
:21:11. > :21:14.if asked, would serve? My approaches -- but if he asked, would you
:21:15. > :21:21.serve? My approaches, if he asked I would be available. Has he asked
:21:22. > :21:27.you? It is the Prime Minister's job to make these decisions, not mine.
:21:28. > :21:33.You are Europhile, Eurosceptical something in between? I think my
:21:34. > :21:37.record would show that I have taken positions against the entry to the
:21:38. > :21:44.euro. I ran the 1999 William Hague campaign. I have been very much
:21:45. > :21:48.against, as the Prime Minister is, the idea of a closer union and
:21:49. > :21:52.constant integration. I do support the Prime Minister very much on the
:21:53. > :21:55.proposal that we should renegotiate and have a referendum, with the
:21:56. > :21:59.objective of securing the renegotiation that allows us
:22:00. > :22:03.confidently to secure a yes vote to remain inside the European Union. So
:22:04. > :22:09.the Prime Minister would be getting some good party line there? Well,
:22:10. > :22:13.whoever he sends, we want them to reflect the interests of this
:22:14. > :22:18.country. But if you become a Commissioner, you're not allowed to
:22:19. > :22:24.do that. You have to sign an agreement that you represent Europe.
:22:25. > :22:33.Happily. In the next period, as you saw from what Angela Merkel will
:22:34. > :22:36.say, the interest of the European Union is best served by Britain
:22:37. > :22:41.continuing in the EU. Anything else would be bad for Britain and Europe.
:22:42. > :22:43.We have a coincidence of interest between British national interest to
:22:44. > :22:50.secure reforming Europe and our continued membership on that basis
:22:51. > :22:55.-- reform in Europe. OK. Make sure you come and give us your first
:22:56. > :23:01.interview as Commissioner. Thank you very much. We would go to keep you,
:23:02. > :23:09.but we have to let you go. You can stay if you like. I've got five
:23:10. > :23:10.minutes, I think. Marvellous. I do like politicians who make a firm
:23:11. > :23:13.decision. By tradition,
:23:14. > :23:14.two backbenchers propose and second a "loyal address",
:23:15. > :23:17.which is a thank-you motion to One is usually
:23:18. > :23:22.a promising MP early in their political career, while the other is
:23:23. > :23:24.a longstanding parliamentarian. Yesterday, it was the turn
:23:25. > :23:51.of Conservative Penny Mordaunt The coalition's last stand. My
:23:52. > :23:55.government's legislated programme will continue to deliver on its
:23:56. > :24:01.long-term plan to build a stronger economy and a fairer society. I am
:24:02. > :24:04.proud today that we have a Parliamentary first, an all woman
:24:05. > :24:09.double act to propose and second the loyal address and I'm delighted to
:24:10. > :24:15.serve as the warm up act for the honourable member for mid Dorset and
:24:16. > :24:20.Poole. The Right Honourable member for Gainsborough is concerned about
:24:21. > :24:25.the consequence of the coalition running its full course. He might
:24:26. > :24:34.see this as the Thelma and Louise of the Parliamentary session. Driving
:24:35. > :24:38.at top speed to the Grand Canyon of electoral defeat. Let me reassure
:24:39. > :24:48.him that this will not be the case, because unlike 1966 Thunderbird,
:24:49. > :24:53.this coalition is right-hand drive. If she's looking for a new
:24:54. > :24:58.challenge, she should try wrestling a bacon sandwich live on national
:24:59. > :25:01.television. The coalition has been a difficult period for me politically,
:25:02. > :25:05.but I'm pleased to have the opportunity today to comment on just
:25:06. > :25:11.a few of the many policies of which I am generally very, very proud. And
:25:12. > :25:18.reflect on the economic recovery which was made possible by the
:25:19. > :25:23.formation of the coalition. Mr Speaker, I am honoured to commend
:25:24. > :25:30.the gracious speech to the house today. This Queen 's speech sets out
:25:31. > :25:34.the next steps in seeing out this vital plan to secure our future, but
:25:35. > :25:37.it will take the rest of this Parliament and the next two finish
:25:38. > :25:43.the task of turning our country round. That is the normally --
:25:44. > :25:51.enormity of the challenge but is matched by the strength of the
:25:52. > :25:57.commitment to sort it out by us. And it broke joins us now. Did you enjoy
:25:58. > :26:00.the experience? -- Annette Brooke. I don't thing I can say I was enjoying
:26:01. > :26:04.it because there is a lot of noise not picked up on the microphones.
:26:05. > :26:08.There weren't many Liberal Democrats there in relation to the others in
:26:09. > :26:14.the House of Commons, so I was determined to do that speech when I
:26:15. > :26:17.was asked to do it. I had been described as quietly determined, and
:26:18. > :26:21.I hope that came over in my approach. Let's talk about the
:26:22. > :26:25.content of the speech and the legislative programme. You know that
:26:26. > :26:30.Labour called it a zombie Parliament. Should have their been
:26:31. > :26:38.builds on the NHS, housing and immigration? -- bills. I think there
:26:39. > :26:41.is quite a lot of content in the Queens speech. We should count the
:26:42. > :26:47.number of them. Would you have liked to see one on the NHS or housing? I
:26:48. > :26:52.don't want to see any structural change in the NHS at the moment. I
:26:53. > :26:54.think National health staff would have been aghast if there was
:26:55. > :26:59.anything major. There is so much bedding down to happen. This has
:27:00. > :27:03.been a reforming government though. Quite surprisingly with a coalition
:27:04. > :27:09.that you might think is not going to be moving forward at the same pace.
:27:10. > :27:15.You said it was a difficult period, politically, the idea of coalition.
:27:16. > :27:18.So you've changed your mind? I said it was a difficult period for
:27:19. > :27:20.somebody on the left wing of the Liberal Democrats, because you have
:27:21. > :27:24.to make compromises and it doesn't come easily to people. I think it
:27:25. > :27:28.was really important yesterday that I identified that it was difficult,
:27:29. > :27:33.but look what has come out of it, things I am proud of. Plastic bags?
:27:34. > :27:38.Was that a Liberal Democrat policy imposed on the Conservatives? It is
:27:39. > :27:42.easy to belittle that. Every time I put into the Private members Bill
:27:43. > :27:48.and you think it's like winning the lottery, and there was one year I
:27:49. > :27:54.thought I might do that. Was it your idea though, imposed on the
:27:55. > :27:57.Conservatives? I certainly think it would come from the Liberal
:27:58. > :28:00.Democrats. It's been a conferences for some time and it's important in
:28:01. > :28:04.its own right, but I don't think we should overlook the overall
:28:05. > :28:10.significance of other green measures -- at conferences. Zero carbon
:28:11. > :28:16.homes, that's really important. I think the Liberal Democrat impact in
:28:17. > :28:22.keeping this towards the green issues and tackling climate change
:28:23. > :28:25.has been really important. I do not think a Conservative government
:28:26. > :28:28.would has stuck as hard as we have managed to even know, again, things
:28:29. > :28:33.have had to be moderated to get an agreement. What is your response to
:28:34. > :28:40.that? Have you been a block on these measures? We set out at the outset
:28:41. > :28:43.of the coalition to be the greenest government ever and I think it's
:28:44. > :28:46.happening. We are leading in Europe in Europe and the reduction of
:28:47. > :28:57.carbon emissions will stop 34% down on the 1990 level. A lot has
:28:58. > :29:03.happened with it. It doesn't help the coalition to say this is our
:29:04. > :29:06.bit, this is your bid. -- your bit. But both sides would like to prove
:29:07. > :29:10.which were their policies. Looking at the recall Bill, do you agree
:29:11. > :29:15.with Zac Goldsmith what is being proposed so far is con? I think it's
:29:16. > :29:19.important we hacks a proposal on the table. I thought that was going to
:29:20. > :29:23.be lost -- had a proposal. It was in the manifesto and in the coalition
:29:24. > :29:27.agreement. Something on the table has to be better than nothing.
:29:28. > :29:33.There's lots of chance for debate in committee, and we would be open to
:29:34. > :29:37.look at suggestions. I think Zac Goldsmith has to convince his own
:29:38. > :29:42.party about this. It's interesting this bill, but it is has taken quite
:29:43. > :29:47.a significance when you thought it wouldn't have been that important
:29:48. > :29:50.within the legislative programme. We are all still jangling with the
:29:51. > :29:54.reaction to the expenses scandal. I know it's five years ago, but it was
:29:55. > :29:59.a sea change. It reinforced those who took a dim view of the political
:30:00. > :30:04.class and it made those who were neutral or did not care outrage. We
:30:05. > :30:06.are still in the shadow of that. That's why it's a lightning
:30:07. > :30:13.conductor question and part of putting that right in the public's
:30:14. > :30:16.mind. Are they ducking it? If MPs can effectively block it, if it
:30:17. > :30:29.isn't the will of the constituents, isn't that a bit of a sham?
:30:30. > :30:35.it. Otherwise you can get great spasms of outrage in the newspapers.
:30:36. > :30:39.I know it is 10% of the electorate to have two sign up for it, and that
:30:40. > :30:42.is a big enough hurdle. But you do need some kind of calibration. I am
:30:43. > :30:47.sufficiently trusting of the Parliamentary system cover such that
:30:48. > :30:51.if there is a committee of MPs, that adds to the sense of proportionality
:30:52. > :30:55.and justice, because you do not want witchhunts. Even though the expenses
:30:56. > :31:01.scandal was an outrage and people are still enraged by it. Are you
:31:02. > :31:09.pleased you welcomed the talks, informal as they may be, between the
:31:10. > :31:12.Lib Dems and Labour? I think it is important to have cross-party talks
:31:13. > :31:15.right across the board, all the way through. It makes for better
:31:16. > :31:22.government. That is how it should be. I do not want any fixes over
:31:23. > :31:28.dinner parties and the like, but talking is good. What about party
:31:29. > :31:32.morale, very briefly, after the wipe-out in the European elections
:31:33. > :31:38.and poor performance in the locals? We obviously had dreadful results,
:31:39. > :31:41.we have lost some excellent MEPs and councillors of long-standing, and I
:31:42. > :31:47.would say I am pretty gutted about that. I think we have had very
:31:48. > :31:51.positive talks, I certainly went straight back on the doorstep and
:31:52. > :31:56.was out canvassing every day last week, which was perhaps quite a
:31:57. > :32:00.brave thing to do. I learned that people were still with us locally,
:32:01. > :32:07.but they have questions as to the next vote. And we have to get our
:32:08. > :32:12.message out, and we do have to review our messaging, that I am
:32:13. > :32:19.quite sure of. We are going to have to leave it there. Thank you very
:32:20. > :32:22.much. We are used to arguments between the Lib Dems and
:32:23. > :32:25.Conservative members of the government, but today, David Cameron
:32:26. > :32:29.is dealing with a spat which has broken out between two of his most
:32:30. > :32:35.important Cabinet members. He has demanded a full account about what
:32:36. > :32:39.has happened in the argument between Theresa May and Michael Gove, who
:32:40. > :32:45.have been arguing over what to do about the problem of alleged Islamic
:32:46. > :32:48.extremism in schools. It has been rumbling on this morning. Michael
:32:49. > :32:57.Gove had this to say as he left for work... Good morning, how are you? I
:32:58. > :33:02.think Teresa May is doing a fantastic job. It is lovely to see
:33:03. > :33:08.you all, and I hope that you will all enjoy the rest of today, there
:33:09. > :33:18.is a lot going on. We take a very firm line. Well, Labour asked for a
:33:19. > :33:21.government response, and the Leader of the House of Commons, who has
:33:22. > :33:26.just left us, Andrew Lansley, he had this to say... I think the time for
:33:27. > :33:32.a statement is when Ofsted have produced their report, that would be
:33:33. > :33:36.appropriate. As far as colleagues working together on the extremism
:33:37. > :33:42.task force, absolutely, they are working together, they are doing so
:33:43. > :33:46.energetically, and with an objective not only of taking these issues
:33:47. > :33:53.extremely seriously, but taking measures which are going to be
:33:54. > :33:58.effective. The extremism task force has already given rise to a range of
:33:59. > :34:06.measures that we have been taking. We are joined now by former chairman
:34:07. > :34:11.of the British Joint Intelligence Committee Pauline Neville Jones.
:34:12. > :34:16.Welcome back to the programme. What do you make of the state of the
:34:17. > :34:21.Government's counter extremism policy? It has important continuing
:34:22. > :34:29.elements in it, and serious work is being done on the front of not just
:34:30. > :34:36.preventing activity which results in violence, but also in the area of
:34:37. > :34:45.preventing the growth of extremist ideologies. I am not totally full of
:34:46. > :34:51.praise for this, but where I think the policy is lacking is in the
:34:52. > :34:57.develop and they really integration strategy. We have got to get beyond
:34:58. > :35:01.the argument about, is something extremist? Into the whole area of,
:35:02. > :35:06.what constitutes a really good, functioning Britain, and how you
:35:07. > :35:10.bring communities together. It is there that I think the emphasis
:35:11. > :35:17.needs to go. There is excellent work being done. And it government does
:35:18. > :35:22.have to take a lead and put some funding in, but it has to reside in
:35:23. > :35:29.the communities. We hear about extremist Muslim activity, and it is
:35:30. > :35:34.hard to know what has been going on in Birmingham, but where are the
:35:35. > :35:40.moderate Muslims who actually need to lead in a different direction?
:35:41. > :35:44.There is excellent work going on in a number of places, and I can give
:35:45. > :35:47.you examples, particularly in London, of programmes which bring
:35:48. > :35:51.youngsters together from all communities and take them through
:35:52. > :35:56.these issues in a very, very explicit way. And it produces
:35:57. > :36:00.remarkable results - remarkable results. A lot more money needs to
:36:01. > :36:05.go into that kind of thing. We would just like to welcome viewers from
:36:06. > :36:09.Scotland, who have been watching First Minister's Questions in
:36:10. > :36:18.Holyrood. Here, we are discussing the Government's anti-extremism
:36:19. > :36:21.agenda. Is it not surprising that things were allowed to get as far as
:36:22. > :36:27.they got in these schools in Birmingham? No, I agree, it is
:36:28. > :36:30.worrying. One does have to recognise, this is not just central
:36:31. > :36:35.government, a lot of this is local government. It is not always easy to
:36:36. > :36:39.get in from central government into the operation. Where the scores are
:36:40. > :36:45.academies, does that not really put the onus on central government? I
:36:46. > :36:49.think, no, something has been missing. One of the questions I
:36:50. > :36:55.asked is, what is the remit of Ofsted, and does it include in its
:36:56. > :36:59.remit, when it is marking schools and giving them a grading, does it
:37:00. > :37:03.include the kind of preoccupation which we are now suddenly faced with
:37:04. > :37:08.- are these children being led and taught in a way which helps them
:37:09. > :37:13.integrate? I am not at all saying that young girls should not where
:37:14. > :37:16.they hid jab. Although I would say that it used to be only after
:37:17. > :37:22.puberty that this was actually a Muslim practice. But what I do not
:37:23. > :37:25.want to see happen, I have to say, is girls wearing it as a matter of
:37:26. > :37:30.uniform. They should not be obliged them they should be allowed to
:37:31. > :37:36.choose. And you do see in the pictures absolutely uniform wearing
:37:37. > :37:42.of it, so, is that a good idea? I do not think so. It does not fit with a
:37:43. > :37:44.modern Britain. There is a clear difference of emphasis between
:37:45. > :37:51.Theresa May and Michael Gove on this, isn't there? It is very hard
:37:52. > :37:55.to be sure of anything until the 21 Ofsted reports are out, but I think
:37:56. > :37:59.I am closer to Teresa May, because I have always thought that in an open
:38:00. > :38:04.society, you have to be clear where the lines are between people's
:38:05. > :38:08.beliefs and those beliefs spilling over into intentions to do criminal
:38:09. > :38:17.things, harm other people. At the same time, the Prevent bit of the
:38:18. > :38:21.strategy, pursue, protect and prevent - is always the hardest,
:38:22. > :38:25.because the hearts and minds are the most difficult thing. In an open
:38:26. > :38:30.society, you want to trust people to do decent things, without having
:38:31. > :38:34.endless audit and inspection. It is worrying that anxiety like this
:38:35. > :38:38.means that the state inevitably will be tipped it, if not required in
:38:39. > :38:42.some circumstances, to intrude in what should be local matters. There
:38:43. > :38:45.is a wider debate about faith schools. We found a very good
:38:46. > :38:52.settlement for that in the last century, to give early in the 1944
:38:53. > :38:56.education act. But the question of the Islamic element in faith schools
:38:57. > :39:01.has reopened the question big time, and it is extremely difficult to
:39:02. > :39:04.know where the lines are drawn, without looking as if you are
:39:05. > :39:08.letting the state intrude in areas where people feel maybe it should
:39:09. > :39:12.not. But when it comes to schools, do we not always have to be on the
:39:13. > :39:16.lookout to make sure that what the pupils are getting is education and
:39:17. > :39:25.not instruction, because the two things are the three different?
:39:26. > :39:29.Absolutely. -- are very different. And how you design things is very
:39:30. > :39:34.important, how much you do in school and how much you do outside of
:39:35. > :39:38.school, for example. I want to see a lot more activity outside school,
:39:39. > :39:41.but which forms the context in which children are going to school. That
:39:42. > :39:46.is the context in which we are falling down. And we do need to
:39:47. > :39:53.mobilise the moderates. It is important that those who think
:39:54. > :39:59.Wright also help do right. If the polls are anything to go by,
:40:00. > :40:02.everything is still on the table for next year's general election. We
:40:03. > :40:06.could even end up with another coalition. But second time around,
:40:07. > :40:13.how different will the whole affair be? Eleanor Garnier has been having
:40:14. > :40:17.a look. In amongst a rolling scrum of cameras, reporters and news
:40:18. > :40:23.onlookers, there were twists and turns and drama. Before David
:40:24. > :40:28.Cameron eventually got the blessing of the Queen, and the key to number
:40:29. > :40:34.10 Downing Street, plenty of deals have been done. I aim to form a
:40:35. > :40:39.proper and full coalition between the Conservatives and the Liberal
:40:40. > :40:44.Democrats. This is going to be hard and difficult work. Coalition will
:40:45. > :40:47.throw up all sorts of challenges, but I believe together, we can
:40:48. > :40:52.provide that strong and stable government which our country needs.
:40:53. > :40:59.In fact, it had taken five days of haggling in May 2010 before the
:41:00. > :41:02.Tories and Lib Dems got together to create the first coalition
:41:03. > :41:07.government in the UK for more than 60 years. With less than a year
:41:08. > :41:12.until the next general election, we are all wondering what a new
:41:13. > :41:17.coalition might look like. All the polls show the prospect of another
:41:18. > :41:22.one is pretty high. Last time it was such a surprise, the first time
:41:23. > :41:26.since the war, nobody knew what to do, the civil servants, the
:41:27. > :41:31.politicians. This time I think everybody will be much more savvy.
:41:32. > :41:35.Parties will be much more clear about their red lines, what cannot
:41:36. > :41:39.negotiate a. But I think the leaders will have to be more open to putting
:41:40. > :41:44.to their parties the idea of going into coalition, which could come to
:41:45. > :41:50.get everything. Last time the Lib Dems did that, but the Tories
:41:51. > :41:54.didn't. The politicians might be calling the shots, but it is the
:41:55. > :41:57.thousands of civil servants here in Whitehall and across the country who
:41:58. > :42:02.keep the cogs of government turning. So, second time around, what kind of
:42:03. > :42:09.trouble could a coalition create for our civil servants? It seems a newly
:42:10. > :42:12.formed coalition is relatively easy for Whitehall mandarins to cope
:42:13. > :42:20.with. Trouble starts much further down the line. In the early years of
:42:21. > :42:24.Parliament it tends to be quite self reinforcing. So I think the
:42:25. > :42:29.challenges are that are far more in the run-up to an election.
:42:30. > :42:36.Coalitions have a tendency to fall apart, as you come close to general
:42:37. > :42:40.elections. The civil servants, for its own good, we want to try and
:42:41. > :42:44.make sure it keeps a distance from that kind of party politics. It is
:42:45. > :42:51.important that there are clear rules of the game, as to how the civil
:42:52. > :42:55.service can be used by each party. So, just how wide could the cracks
:42:56. > :43:03.in this relationship grow before the next election? There is no doubt
:43:04. > :43:07.divorce is an option, but come next May, this couple could be
:43:08. > :43:13.celebrating a five year political marriage by renewing their vows.
:43:14. > :43:19.Remember that, Peter Hennessy, the rose garden? I thought it was
:43:20. > :43:26.faintly toe curling at the time and I have not changed my mind. If there
:43:27. > :43:31.is another coalition, as the polls suggested there might be, will it be
:43:32. > :43:36.easier this time around? Yes, because we had a lot of adjusting to
:43:37. > :43:38.do. We had not had a coalition since the great World War II coalition.
:43:39. > :43:44.And the circumstances were different. We had to do what the
:43:45. > :43:52.Brits are good at, making it up as we go along. The planning in the
:43:53. > :43:55.Cabinet Office was well done, the permanent secretaries got ready
:43:56. > :44:06.piece of paper, for those of us who had to impersonate the Queen in the
:44:07. > :44:10.television studios. So, those of us who were impersonating the Queen,
:44:11. > :44:16.several of us had been involved in helping the Cabinet Office trawl up
:44:17. > :44:21.what became that bit of the Cabinet manual on Hung Parliament 's. so we
:44:22. > :44:24.had a bit of paper, which said what because Egyptian was, and it has
:44:25. > :44:31.been refined since, on the basis of experience. But now everybody is
:44:32. > :44:38.more attuned to it, the markets are more attuned to it. Unless there is
:44:39. > :44:43.a huge financial crisis. I would not be surprised if it is at least a
:44:44. > :44:48.week. The parties may well start laying out where their red lines
:44:49. > :44:58.are. You would have a kind of 2-term manifesto? Yes, that is what we
:44:59. > :45:04.would do if we were full-blooded. -- 2- tone manifesto. I do not think
:45:05. > :45:08.they will discuss much with parties ahead of time, but David Cameron has
:45:09. > :45:13.indicated that he will give his party say this time. He did not do
:45:14. > :45:20.so last time, although the Lib Dems did. So he will have to consult more
:45:21. > :45:25.people. All our nerve ends were used to rapid and civilised evictions,
:45:26. > :45:33.the removal van at the back of another 10 Downing Street. But as
:45:34. > :45:37.reflected in the latest version of the Cabinet manual, it is reflected
:45:38. > :45:40.that the Prime Minister will wait until it is obvious who the Queen
:45:41. > :45:45.will say, so there is no question of her being drawn into it. But it is
:45:46. > :45:49.only an expectation, it remains to be seen whether this will turn into
:45:50. > :45:56.a convention. And it still relies on the good chap theory of government,
:45:57. > :46:01.so that everybody behaves in the right way, and makes sure that the
:46:02. > :46:06.Queen has no whiff of politicisation about her. What about the civil
:46:07. > :46:11.servants, will they be pulling the strings, bringing the parties
:46:12. > :46:20.together, to try and get in quickly once a coalition has been
:46:21. > :46:26.established? The civil service was prepared to provide the secretariat,
:46:27. > :46:29.but this set of note you are taking, would they be under Freedom of
:46:30. > :46:33.information on the cabinet secretary said he did not know. Very
:46:34. > :46:38.interesting. That is why the civil service did not take the minute. The
:46:39. > :46:42.civil service has published something I was writing a couple of
:46:43. > :46:47.years ago, the sequence of events, and who saw what, and it was very
:46:48. > :46:51.interesting. The Private Secretary took an office in the cabinet and he
:46:52. > :46:55.went into twice to see Gordon Brown to tell him what the constitutional
:46:56. > :47:00.position was. Some of Gordon's advisers said it wasn't going to
:47:01. > :47:05.work, so just leave. He behaved with great dignity and only came out to
:47:06. > :47:08.resign when there were still 20 minutes left to run between the
:47:09. > :47:13.Conservative and Liberal Democrat negotiations. A fine run thing, but
:47:14. > :47:17.he behaved with great dignity. Always the fear is that somebody who
:47:18. > :47:22.is exhausted says something unfortunate and it all goes sour and
:47:23. > :47:28.false accusations are made. The Queen does on that, does she? Only
:47:29. > :47:30.got a year to think about it -- does not want that.
:47:31. > :47:33.Is organised religion a force for good, a source of morality?
:47:34. > :47:36.Or are its rules and regulations, particularly on sexuality
:47:37. > :47:40.and the human body, the cause of conflict and a source of prejudice?
:47:41. > :47:42.Tim Booth is the lead singer of the band, James.
:47:43. > :47:45.Much of his work reflects questions around religion
:47:46. > :48:12.The dominant religions of Islam, Christianity and Judaism believe
:48:13. > :48:18.that man must transcend his sexual nature. That our sinful bodies need
:48:19. > :48:25.controlling, preferably by the church. I believe that these
:48:26. > :48:27.ancient, patriarchal beliefs still have a far too strong and subtle
:48:28. > :48:56.control over our society. The enforced suppression of our
:48:57. > :49:00.sexuality is poisonous, natural and damages our mental and physical
:49:01. > :49:05.well-being. How many well-intentioned priests are
:49:06. > :49:12.attempting to stem their natural desires by being unnaturally
:49:13. > :49:15.celibate? Then became paedophiles? Adultery and homosexuality are still
:49:16. > :49:21.punished by stoning in parts of the world. Circumcision is routinely
:49:22. > :49:27.performed on newborns without thought of psychological
:49:28. > :49:34.consequences. In the time of AIDS, it is a sin to use a condom. In most
:49:35. > :49:38.countries we cannot obtain assisted suicide even when in unbearable
:49:39. > :49:52.pain. Whilst the murder of young girls is called honour killing.
:49:53. > :50:03.Women are labelled whores for the merest expression of their
:50:04. > :50:09.sexuality. It is estimated that 120 million girls have had their
:50:10. > :50:15.clitoris is removed. If boys were being castrated like this, wouldn't
:50:16. > :50:19.we have stopped it by now? Religion still tries to dictate what we can
:50:20. > :50:24.and cannot do with our bodies and shames us, or much worse, for
:50:25. > :50:28.disobedience. Darwin caused a storm by saying we are descended from
:50:29. > :50:36.apes. This doesn't go far enough. We are apes. Apes in denial, with some
:50:37. > :50:41.pretentious aspirations. We have some basic, beautiful, natural needs
:50:42. > :50:48.that we are often fearful to express. Finger-pointing shame is
:50:49. > :50:53.toxic. It's time for we individuals to choose what we do with our own
:50:54. > :51:00.bodies. The bodies that we have been given in this lifetime, and to hear
:51:01. > :51:03.-- heal the wounds that have been created by thousands of years of
:51:04. > :51:15.violence, exile and shame. We're joined now by Tim Booth,
:51:16. > :51:18.and by the Reverend Sally Hitchiner, she's
:51:19. > :51:26.the chaplain at Brunel University. Welcome to both of you. Tim, tell us
:51:27. > :51:33.a bit about your upbringing. You came from a fairly religious home.
:51:34. > :51:42.Yes, church every week, at boarding school, church every day. This was
:51:43. > :51:50.Protestantism, and the kind of pride that in our lineage was John
:51:51. > :51:56.Wesley. So you have been steeped in religion. I have been stewed in it.
:51:57. > :52:02.Has that put you off? Is that what led you to believe that religion has
:52:03. > :52:06.done more harm than good? I don't think I say religion has done more
:52:07. > :52:13.harm than good, it's not a statement I would use. I would say that the
:52:14. > :52:18.ethics of Christ are quite brilliant. Forgiveness, helping the
:52:19. > :52:26.disadvantaged, but the church that got built upon it by men, the
:52:27. > :52:33.patriarch of became corrupt very quickly and resulted in huge amounts
:52:34. > :52:37.of control and violence. The historical aspect of the church, it
:52:38. > :52:42.is appalling. It is appalling. It's got better as Christianity has lots
:52:43. > :52:44.of -- lost its power. I would say that has been a benefit to
:52:45. > :52:49.Christianity and society. I wouldn't see it as a negative, that waning.
:52:50. > :52:56.But there has been too much oppression and too much oppression
:52:57. > :52:59.on women. Do you agree with that? That sexuality has been oppressed by
:53:00. > :53:04.the church and it is written with guilt and shame? That has been a
:53:05. > :53:06.question in the church, there is no denying it, especially of women and
:53:07. > :53:10.other vulnerable groups through history. This is not a problem of
:53:11. > :53:15.religion, it's a problem of humanity in general. If we look at any
:53:16. > :53:19.government or system power throughout history there have always
:53:20. > :53:24.been abuses. If we think about the 20th century, it's generally the
:53:25. > :53:28.atheists who have been the strongest abusers of others, the great regimes
:53:29. > :53:36.of the 20th century. The really important thing for me is not what
:53:37. > :53:40.has happened so far, but what we do now. How can we a difference now?
:53:41. > :53:49.The fact there are 280 churches that run night shelters, and groups that
:53:50. > :53:54.provide food banks motivated from their religion. Only yesterday
:53:55. > :53:57.Manchester Cathedral appointed a trans-lesbian activist as a canon in
:53:58. > :54:01.their Cathedral. I think there is so much good happening, and I think
:54:02. > :54:06.it's a one-sided approach to have a report like that that only
:54:07. > :54:08.highlights the negative aspects that religion is bringing and does not
:54:09. > :54:14.highlight the human problem behind it. But you do accept that the
:54:15. > :54:19.problems raised by Tim exist when talking about issues of people 's
:54:20. > :54:24.personal behaviour? Whether it is about sexual issues, abortion, AIDS,
:54:25. > :54:27.these are big moral issues, and Tim, in your mind, I presume, you
:54:28. > :54:31.think the church has tried to dictate how people should behave,
:54:32. > :54:36.and if they behave differently, they are wrong. In the time of age you
:54:37. > :54:43.cannot buy a condom in Ireland. Assisted suicide, people who are
:54:44. > :54:46.needing it, in a great deal of pain, but a whole stigma around
:54:47. > :54:53.suicide exists which is kind of a religious echo through the culture.
:54:54. > :54:59.I'm more concerned about the subtle echoes rather than the actual more
:55:00. > :55:04.obvious ones. Obviously Sally comes from a more liberal aspect of the
:55:05. > :55:10.church that I applaud. I'm a big fan of Desmond Tutu and his speeches on
:55:11. > :55:15.forgiveness, so I'm not against aspects of the church at all, I'm
:55:16. > :55:22.against the intolerant imposition. As a Catholic, what do you say? I
:55:23. > :55:28.grew up where everything was an occasion of sin. I sometimes wonder
:55:29. > :55:31.how I managed to breed, but I'm glad I did. I'm a fellow traveller with
:55:32. > :55:37.the Anglicans, I love the Anglican Church. But the me, I understand why
:55:38. > :55:41.you have done this -- but for me. I have some feeling for you. For me,
:55:42. > :55:48.the liberating bit of the faith is the beatitude, the best copy ever
:55:49. > :55:53.written. As an injunction on how to live life, it transcends everything.
:55:54. > :55:57.But that is the core of the faith for me and I'm in no way diminishing
:55:58. > :56:00.your feelings which you have been very candid in expressing. But the
:56:01. > :56:06.Christian morality that comes through the beatitude is, I think,
:56:07. > :56:11.extraordinary. It is as vivid now as when Jesus uttered it. So, for me, I
:56:12. > :56:17.have some sympathy, but that's the sticking point. A fairly
:56:18. > :56:20.hard-hitting film and you said some poignant things but we can't discuss
:56:21. > :56:26.any more as we run out of time. Thank you ever so much. Some
:56:27. > :56:30.important news coming out of Frankfurt and the European Central
:56:31. > :56:36.bank. It's cut the main interest rate to 0.15%. You might think you
:56:37. > :56:42.can't get lower than that, well, you can. It has cut another rate called
:56:43. > :56:48.the discount rate which banks get by lodging money with the ECB to -0.1%.
:56:49. > :56:53.This is unprecedented in European monetary policy and it means if you
:56:54. > :56:57.are a financial institution, you lodge money with the ECB, you will
:56:58. > :57:02.have to pay the ECB for the right to lodge money there. And the bank is
:57:03. > :57:04.trying to confront what it now has been forced to realise is the
:57:05. > :57:10.biggest problem facing the Eurozone, which is the deflationary
:57:11. > :57:15.trap the most economies are in with prices collapsing. It's trying to
:57:16. > :57:18.stoke up monetary policy to get the banks to lend again and to get a bit
:57:19. > :57:20.more inflation into the system will stop there will be a lot more of
:57:21. > :57:24.that on the one o'clock news. Forget the Oscars,
:57:25. > :57:26.forget the BAFTAS. Last night saw The Parliamentary
:57:27. > :57:28.Internet, Communications and As you can imagine it was
:57:29. > :57:37.a star-studded event and tickets were harder to come by than a signed
:57:38. > :57:40.copy of Peter's latest book. The "Local Yokel" Award for the MP
:57:41. > :57:49.who has mentioned their constituency the most on Twitter went to Labour
:57:50. > :57:55.Walthamstow MP Stella Creasy. She's tweeted 43,400 times in total
:57:56. > :57:58.and she's mentioned her constituency I hope the people
:57:59. > :58:04.of Walthamstow are grateful. Perhaps not surprisingly
:58:05. > :58:05.James Wharton, the Tory MP who tried to take the EU
:58:06. > :58:09.Referendum Bill through Parliament, He's gone from very few to
:58:10. > :58:17.nearly 5,000 followers. You might think the Green Party's
:58:18. > :58:21.one MP might have talked most about green issues on Twitter, but no,
:58:22. > :58:24.it was Greg Barker the minister for climate change who pipped the Green
:58:25. > :58:30.MP Caroline Lucas to the post. Greg Barker's tweeted 186 times
:58:31. > :58:37.on green matters this year. And the "Most Mentions"
:58:38. > :58:40.Award was won by the Scottish He was mentioned 2,300
:58:41. > :58:57.times last year in tweets. I'm sure some were even
:58:58. > :59:01.complimentary. We have 45 seconds, coming from the glitzy, all-night
:59:02. > :59:07.party, Pete Wishart, why did you win? I just want to thank my mother,
:59:08. > :59:10.all of those who supported me, my goldfish, and particularly my
:59:11. > :59:16.Twitter followers. More MPs are involved in this and I think it is
:59:17. > :59:21.great to recognise this and celebrate the fact we are now there.
:59:22. > :59:26.Do you enjoy it? Aren't you worried you might put your foot in it? There
:59:27. > :59:31.is always that danger and it has happened to several of us along the
:59:32. > :59:36.years, but it's a great way to communicate. You can get a story out
:59:37. > :59:40.to thousands very quickly. Like your own press wire service. Well,
:59:41. > :59:47.congratulations. Sorry it has been so short, blame the European Central
:59:48. > :59:48.bank. I will do. Always. The one o'clock news is starting on BBC One
:59:49. > :59:51.now. I'll be on BBC One tonight with the
:59:52. > :59:55.longest-ever This Week, it's our version of the Longest Day, starting
:59:56. > :59:58.with Hank Marvin, Kate Williams, Michael Portillo, Diane Abbott,
:59:59. > :00:00.Andrew Rawnsley and Miranda Green, before a change of guests
:00:01. > :00:03.and we settle down and wait And I'll be back here again
:00:04. > :00:09.at noon tomorrow when we'll work out