:00:36. > :00:44.Barack Obama says all options are on the table but it's still not
:00:45. > :00:47.clear if he intends to do very much about the collapse of Iraq.
:00:48. > :00:50.In the last 24 hours the Islamist extremists have seized two new towns
:00:51. > :00:57.The Governor of the Bank of England warns interest rates may rise sooner
:00:58. > :01:01.than the markets expect. But how soon?
:01:02. > :01:04.We report on the wheeler-dealering in Brussels as
:01:05. > :01:10.newly-elected MEPs try to form new pan-European political groupings.
:01:11. > :01:13.And did you know that as well as its own flag,
:01:14. > :01:41.All that in the next hour and with us for the next half
:01:42. > :01:43.an hour is Times political correspondent Laura Pitel.
:01:44. > :01:46.Let's kick off with last night's warning
:01:47. > :01:49.from the Bank of England governor Mark Carney that interest rates
:01:50. > :02:04.It rather overshadowed everything that George Osborne had to say.
:02:05. > :02:09.There is speculation about the exact timing of the first rate hike and
:02:10. > :02:14.this decision is becoming more balanced. It could happen sooner
:02:15. > :02:22.than financial markets currently expect. But to be clear, there is no
:02:23. > :02:28.preset course. The ultimate decision will be driven by the data. That was
:02:29. > :02:31.the governor last night. A characteristic dry delivery that he
:02:32. > :02:37.gives. Any idea why he has decided to say this? He wants to give people
:02:38. > :02:42.a warning. If interest rates are going to go up it could be good news
:02:43. > :02:47.for savers. We have had rubbish rates. They will not go much. And it
:02:48. > :02:52.could be serious news for people with a mortgage. Some people are
:02:53. > :02:55.struggling to handle the cost of living and if you're going to have a
:02:56. > :03:02.massive hike on your mortgage payment, it is bad news. But it will
:03:03. > :03:03.not be a massive hike to begin with. The governor has made it clear
:03:04. > :03:07.not be a massive hike to begin with. that any rise will be very small to
:03:08. > :03:10.begin with. And even when he reaches the peak of the interest rate cycle,
:03:11. > :03:16.he does not think it will go back to the average of 5% before the crash,
:03:17. > :03:25.it is more likely to be around three. It is not good news of you
:03:26. > :03:27.have a mortgage but it may not be a disaster? It may be 2.25% over the
:03:28. > :03:32.next three years. Mark Carney made it clear it would be a slow change
:03:33. > :03:36.but it is interesting politically, because we had expected that the
:03:37. > :03:41.interest rate hike might be held after the general election but comes
:03:42. > :03:45.forward, is tricky. I have always thought he would not put interest
:03:46. > :03:51.rates up until the second half of the next year. But the markets have
:03:52. > :03:58.been pricing he would do it in the first part of next year, maybe the
:03:59. > :04:02.first quarter. I wonder, he said he may do it sooner than the markets
:04:03. > :04:07.were expecting. He may want to get it in this year, the first rise,
:04:08. > :04:13.because to raise interest rates in the middle of an election campaign,
:04:14. > :04:21.which will start on January one, is probably a sensible thing for any
:04:22. > :04:26.banker to do. The markets have been expecting it in February time, maybe
:04:27. > :04:30.before Christmas, in November. It presents a tricky dilemma for George
:04:31. > :04:35.Osborne. If there is an interest rate rise he will say the economy is
:04:36. > :04:38.recovering, we need it. It was interesting last night because he
:04:39. > :04:46.said the economy was growing at an annual rate of 4%. If it is true
:04:47. > :04:51.then you cannot keep interest rates at 0.5%. No, you cannot because
:04:52. > :04:56.inflation will end up going out of control. The thing that is tricky is
:04:57. > :05:00.Ed Miliband's big thing is the cost of living crisis. If the interest
:05:01. > :05:05.rates go up, people will have bigger mortgage payments and that will play
:05:06. > :05:08.into his agenda. If you have a mortgage, you should do your own
:05:09. > :05:14.risk assessment and look at what will happen if interest rates go up
:05:15. > :05:17.one and a half, 2%, where would that leave you with mortgage payments?
:05:18. > :05:23.Exactly. Now it's time for our daily quiz.
:05:24. > :05:27.David and Samantha Cameron were papped
:05:28. > :05:30.on Wednesday having a night out in central London, so our question
:05:31. > :05:33.for today is, what were they doing? Was it a)
:05:34. > :05:35.Seeing the play Handbagged? b) Hanging out with celebs
:05:36. > :05:38.at the Chiltern Firehouse? c) Enjoying some peri
:05:39. > :05:42.peri chicken at Nandos? d) Partying in the notorious Soho
:05:43. > :05:44.nightclub The Box? And a bit later in the show Laura
:05:45. > :06:08.will give us the correct answer. Dealing with education manifesto
:06:09. > :06:14.gets people squabbling like kids in a classroom. Here is what Nick Clegg
:06:15. > :06:20.had to say. All parents, all mums and dads need parental guarantee
:06:21. > :06:24.that regardless of what school their children go to cover all of their
:06:25. > :06:29.children will be taught by qualified teachers, teachers who are seeking
:06:30. > :06:34.and all their children will be taught a core body of knowledge,
:06:35. > :06:41.regardless of whether the school is a free School, an academy or a
:06:42. > :06:46.maintained school. We've been joined from Liverpool
:06:47. > :07:03.by the Lib Dem's education spokesman What is new is what has been brought
:07:04. > :07:06.about by the situation in Birmingham where the schools have not had the
:07:07. > :07:10.freedom to teach a national curriculum and have got themselves
:07:11. > :07:14.into all sorts of problems. I believe, as a head teacher myself
:07:15. > :07:18.for 25 years, the most important thing for me in education is having
:07:19. > :07:26.a qualified teacher. And secondly, making sure that all schools,
:07:27. > :07:31.whether they are free schools are academies, follow a slimmed down
:07:32. > :07:40.national curriculum which makes sure that we teach and give people the
:07:41. > :07:45.flexibility which they have. If qualified teachers are so important,
:07:46. > :07:51.when the academies act was passed in 2010 which allows for unqualified
:07:52. > :07:56.teachers in academies, why did only six Lib Dem MPs vote against it?
:07:57. > :08:00.First of all, you are right, Labour allowed academies to have
:08:01. > :08:05.non-qualified teachers teaching. This was the Tory legislation. The
:08:06. > :08:08.original academies at brought under the Blair government allowed for the
:08:09. > :08:14.first time non-qualified teachers to be teaching in the classroom. Long
:08:15. > :08:17.before that we had a system which does not get a mention, which is
:08:18. > :08:20.when teachers are sick or on a course, you often have teaching
:08:21. > :08:28.assistants brought in who do not have teaching qualifications. They
:08:29. > :08:30.do a fantastic job but they are not qualified teachers. To go back to
:08:31. > :08:33.your direct question, I think you learn from what happens. I think
:08:34. > :08:37.politicians have said that is quite wrong. They should not be chastised,
:08:38. > :08:42.they should be welcomed for being brave enough to say no, in all
:08:43. > :08:48.schools, the most important thing is the quality of the teacher and that
:08:49. > :08:54.goes without saying. Mr Clegg, the leader of your party and Mr laws in
:08:55. > :09:00.the education department, they were both taught by unqualified teachers.
:09:01. > :09:04.What damage did it do them? It is not to say there are not occasions
:09:05. > :09:11.where you bring people into schools, into a classroom situation, who have
:09:12. > :09:17.real qualities and expertise in a particular area, but the day-to-day
:09:18. > :09:21.classroom teaching, whether it is in the primary school, or whether it is
:09:22. > :09:25.in a secondary school, needs somebody who is qualified and
:09:26. > :09:30.trained. What do we mean by that? They know about child development.
:09:31. > :09:34.Can the person who taught David Laws or Nick Clegg be able to identify if
:09:35. > :09:38.a child was dyslexic or not? If you just bring anybody in, those vital
:09:39. > :09:44.ingredients of qualification are lost. And actually, it can be very
:09:45. > :09:47.dangerous. New -- you need people who are qualified but also people
:09:48. > :09:52.who will inspire and motivate. You will remember probably a teacher who
:09:53. > :09:57.inspired you and that goes for all of us. If there are inspiring
:09:58. > :10:01.teachers and schools who are not qualified and they do not want to go
:10:02. > :10:08.down the route of qualification, will you fire them? If somebody does
:10:09. > :10:10.not want to become a qualified teacher and we agree that all
:10:11. > :10:14.children have the right to be taught by a qualified teacher, they will
:10:15. > :10:19.have to step aside and maybe they will become a classroom assistant or
:10:20. > :10:24.an assistant teacher. So inspiring teachers, if they do not follow your
:10:25. > :10:29.rules, you will fire them? I did not say that. If somebody does not want
:10:30. > :10:34.to become a qualified teacher, they can become an assistant to a
:10:35. > :10:40.qualified teacher. They will be downgraded? That is an insult to
:10:41. > :10:43.classroom assistants who do a fantastic job. They assist teachers
:10:44. > :10:51.so an inspiring teacher who does not want to follow your rules will be
:10:52. > :10:54.demoted to an assistant? So your assistant producer is downgraded?
:10:55. > :10:59.You have not met my assistant producers say he would not be saying
:11:00. > :11:03.that! While I have got you on, you will see that Mr Miliband and Mr
:11:04. > :11:07.Clegg got their photographs taken with the Sun newspaper, apparently
:11:08. > :11:12.it is something to do with a sporting competition going on in
:11:13. > :11:13.Brazil at the moment. The leader of the Liberal Democrats in Liverpool
:11:14. > :11:14.has Brazil at the moment. The leader of
:11:15. > :11:18.the Liberal Democrats called on Mr Clegg to apologise for being seen
:11:19. > :11:21.with the Sun. You Clegg to apologise for being seen
:11:22. > :11:25.with the were a city councillor and city leader of Liverpool Council,
:11:26. > :11:30.should he apologise? Of course he should. I do not think people
:11:31. > :11:36.outside Merseyside realise the great upset and harm that the Sun caused
:11:37. > :11:42.people of the city. It is an insult to what has happened. Both Miliband
:11:43. > :11:45.and Nick Clegg should clearly apologise for the hurt they have
:11:46. > :11:49.caused, particularly to the family and friends of those people
:11:50. > :11:54.tragically killed at Hillsborough. and friends of those people
:11:55. > :11:57.Thank you for that. Nice to talk to you.
:11:58. > :12:00.Interesting there. There is pressure on both. I am puzzled with Mr
:12:01. > :12:06.on both. I am puzzled with Miliband. Mr Clegg is a northern MP
:12:07. > :12:09.as well. Why did it not stored on any of the people around them that
:12:10. > :12:16.being seen holding up a copy of the Sun would not go down in Liverpool?
:12:17. > :12:22.Ya No the Sun knows it will not go down well because they did not
:12:23. > :12:28.deliver the paper there. It is an interesting situation. They could
:12:29. > :12:33.have done without this after the bacon sandwich incident. In a great
:12:34. > :12:39.he looked quite silly in the photo to add insult to injury. It is
:12:40. > :12:44.remarkable that they pay all these people for advice. I understand that
:12:45. > :12:47.Mr Miliband has apologised to the people of Merseyside, much good it
:12:48. > :12:53.will probably do him and no doubt Mr Clegg will follow. It is apology
:12:54. > :12:58.Friday. ISIS is an extreme Sunni Islamist
:12:59. > :13:03.group which used to be a franchise of Al-Qaeda but became too hard line
:13:04. > :13:09.even for it. It is now in control of huge swathes of eastern Iraq, the
:13:10. > :13:14.country's second city. Everywhere it goes, it opens the jails to boost
:13:15. > :13:18.its numbers, empties the banks to fund its operation and enforces the
:13:19. > :13:26.strictest sharia law, including executions, amputations, beheadings
:13:27. > :13:32.and crucifixions. It has taken a further two towns close to Baghdad
:13:33. > :13:34.which is now preparing for an attack. President Obama has said
:13:35. > :13:38.nothing except he is looking at his options, none of which are great.
:13:39. > :13:42.Meanwhile, Iran's Revolutionary guard has been deployed to aid its
:13:43. > :13:46.beleaguered Shia allies in the east of Iraq. We will talk about what is
:13:47. > :13:52.happening there in the moment but first, let's have a look at the
:13:53. > :13:57.timeline of events in Iraq since the invasion in 2003.
:13:58. > :14:01.British and American troops invaded Iraq in March 2003, leading to the
:14:02. > :14:05.toppling of Saddam Hussein's government. In September, the former
:14:06. > :14:11.president was captured near his hometown of Tikrit which has just
:14:12. > :14:14.been taken by ISIS. The following summer the US-led administration
:14:15. > :14:19.transferred powers to the Iraqi government. Two years later, Nouri
:14:20. > :14:27.al-Maliki formed the first post-war government. Later that year, Sadam
:14:28. > :14:31.Hussein was executed. In 2007, Britain handed over the Basra
:14:32. > :14:36.province to Iraqi forces. It marked the end of five years of British
:14:37. > :14:41.occupation but Britain had lost control of southern Iraq before they
:14:42. > :14:50.left. And the last troops withdrew from the country in September 2011.
:14:51. > :14:56.Mr Obama wanted to keep some aside. 2013 was Iraq's deadliest year since
:14:57. > :15:00.2008 with nearly 10,000 civilians killed in clashes between security
:15:01. > :15:05.forces and largely Sunni Islamist militants. In April this year,
:15:06. > :15:09.Iraqis voted in their first parliamentary elections since the
:15:10. > :15:10.withdrawal of US troops but the elections were marred by nationwide
:15:11. > :15:15.violence. Last night, Barack Obama said Iraq
:15:16. > :15:18.was going to need more help from the US and the international community
:15:19. > :15:21.and did not rule out airstrikes. My team is
:15:22. > :15:23.working around the clock to identify how we can provide the most
:15:24. > :15:25.effective assistance to them. I don't rule out anything because we
:15:26. > :15:30.do have a stake in making sure that these jihadists are not getting a
:15:31. > :15:38.permanent foothold in either Iraq or I'm joined now from Cardiff by
:15:39. > :15:46.Ann Clwyd, who was Tony Blair's special envoy on human rights to
:15:47. > :15:50.Iraq in 2003, John McTernan, who worked for Tony Blair
:15:51. > :15:53.in Downing Street, is in Edinburgh. And Richard Ottaway,
:15:54. > :16:08.chair of the Foreign Affairs Select You listened to President Obama, it
:16:09. > :16:13.does not really sound like he knows what to do. He has made it clear
:16:14. > :16:18.there will not be boots on the ground that he is prepared to
:16:19. > :16:23.intervene. I expect there is quite a bit of intelligence and an
:16:24. > :16:31.assessment on what is going on. What will this amount to? At the moment,
:16:32. > :16:37.it will be logistical, humanitarian intelligence -based. I do not know
:16:38. > :16:41.what that means? That means you can provide support for getting more
:16:42. > :16:54.equipment there, humanitarian means money for aid. They have all the
:16:55. > :16:59.latest American equipment. This is a fast moving situation and you do not
:17:00. > :17:05.want to have knee jerk reactions. I am asking you what you think the
:17:06. > :17:11.President should do. He has said he is considering all options. That is
:17:12. > :17:17.the right thing to do. There is nothing obvious that the West can
:17:18. > :17:24.do. What is important is to prop up the Kurds in the north. They are an
:17:25. > :17:28.oasis of stability and prosperity. They have the good, well-trained
:17:29. > :17:35.army. They have been circumvented. A lot of our focus should go on there.
:17:36. > :17:39.But, it is not to say we are not interested and you have to look at
:17:40. > :17:46.the options. There is nothing obvious the West can do, is there?
:17:47. > :17:51.They can accelerate the supply of the new equipment to Iraq. They can
:17:52. > :18:01.obviously, as Richard said, shared intelligence. And for the Kurdish
:18:02. > :18:04.autonomous region, it is vital they do offer specific support like
:18:05. > :18:11.restoring the no-fly zone. You can do air strikes. There is a capacity
:18:12. > :18:18.for us to strike if we need to. What is the point of providing the Iraqi
:18:19. > :18:25.army with new equipment if it drops it and runs away and it ends up in
:18:26. > :18:31.the hands of Islamist militants? Sky it is very clear that when the Prime
:18:32. > :18:36.Minister ordered the British and American troops to leave, he made a
:18:37. > :18:45.massive, strategic error. In the end, if we do not want Baghdad to
:18:46. > :18:49.fall and for democracy to stay, we will have to act. I'd take a more
:18:50. > :18:54.positive view of what President Obama has said. What is the point of
:18:55. > :18:57.giving them equipment they are not prepared to use? The most
:18:58. > :19:09.sophisticated equipment is now ending up in the hands of ISIS. What
:19:10. > :19:14.is clear is that we need to give military, defence and military
:19:15. > :19:18.support everywhere we can. It takes time to make any deployment. We must
:19:19. > :19:23.be clear and President Obama has been clear we will not allow ISIS to
:19:24. > :19:27.gain a country from which they can then export the terrorism fell in
:19:28. > :19:33.the region. How to we make that clear? Iran knows what it is doing.
:19:34. > :19:39.It is deploying Revolutionary guards to help its Shi'ite friends in
:19:40. > :19:47.Baghdad. Had we make it clear? We have no power to make it clear? Iraq
:19:48. > :19:51.is in a very difficult situation at the moment. I had a phone call ten
:19:52. > :19:54.minutes ago from the wife of a man who was the Water Minister in
:19:55. > :20:02.Baghdad. She is the sister-in-law of the President. She said to me that
:20:03. > :20:07.ten young women have been captured by ISIS on the road from Baghdad to
:20:08. > :20:14.Kurdistan. Now they are demanding a ransom for each one of them. We know
:20:15. > :20:20.how difficult the situation is. The question is, what is to be done? I
:20:21. > :20:23.am not hearing anything that is so far practical. Sky we cannot
:20:24. > :20:31.possibly say exactly what the military should do. I worry about
:20:32. > :20:37.things like drones. They have too many accidents and bombed the wrong
:20:38. > :20:41.people very often. I am concerned about the vast number of people,
:20:42. > :20:44.there are supposed to be half a million people already, who have
:20:45. > :20:49.gone towards the burden with Kurdistan. I think the Kurds are
:20:50. > :20:54.perfectly able to protect themselves. They moved into Cukor
:20:55. > :21:05.and that has been a disputed territory for some time. -- Kirkuk.
:21:06. > :21:09.It is about the rest of the country. It is an urgent situation. I think
:21:10. > :21:14.the intelligence, both on the American side and the British side,
:21:15. > :21:17.has been absolutely rotten. The Pentagon warned the president in
:21:18. > :21:23.February of this year this would happen, in broad terms, and nothing
:21:24. > :21:32.was done. I will come to Richard now. The Kurds ignored the Americans
:21:33. > :21:38.and formed their own army. What is the point of a no-fly zone over what
:21:39. > :21:45.we might call Kurdistan in northern Iraq? ISIS do not have any planes.
:21:46. > :21:48.Kurdistan is now a semi-independent autonomous region. It was not given
:21:49. > :21:56.to them by the Americans. They had their own constitution. High point
:21:57. > :22:10.is that the Americans did not want the Kurds to have an army. -- my
:22:11. > :22:17.point is. My point is they do not need our protection. You are
:22:18. > :22:22.disillusioned to think the Kurds do not need our protection. What we
:22:23. > :22:27.do? We need to tell them we are right behind them and standing
:22:28. > :22:33.shoulder to shoulder with them. What does that mean? Politically, it
:22:34. > :22:37.means quite a lot. If you are going to say you are going to give all
:22:38. > :22:43.that it needs to protect the region, that can possibly prevent an
:22:44. > :22:49.escalation. I do not think we have the capacity to deploy troops. Going
:22:50. > :22:53.back to your original question, we have participated in a no-fly zone
:22:54. > :22:59.before, together with the Americans. Whether we have the capacity now to
:23:00. > :23:04.do so again remains to be seen. I asked the question. What is the
:23:05. > :23:10.point of a no-fly zone in northern Iraq when ISIS do not have any
:23:11. > :23:14.planes? If you can control airspace, you can often control the
:23:15. > :23:23.ground. You need a military person here to say it. They have already
:23:24. > :23:29.captured helicopters. They are very sophisticated helicopters. It is
:23:30. > :23:34.unlikely they know how to fly them. Northern Iraq seems to be under
:23:35. > :23:43.control at the moment. Is dinner rack is now in the hands of a
:23:44. > :23:49.machine that was too powerful for Al-Qaeda. The Americans are helping
:23:50. > :23:58.in the West and helping the Government in eastern Iraq. The
:23:59. > :24:03.company is de facto partitioned. Sky you cannot say it will be
:24:04. > :24:09.partitioned. It is occupied by ISIS. There has been a catastrophic
:24:10. > :24:12.failure by the Prime Minister and we are in an extraordinary situation
:24:13. > :24:17.where the new relationship that America has with Ron is being tested
:24:18. > :24:23.in a very challenging way, a way we have not anticipated. -- with Irani.
:24:24. > :24:28.Grant will also protect the Kurds. We do have to go back to using our
:24:29. > :24:33.intelligence and using drone strikes, actually using the weapons
:24:34. > :24:43.we have. We do not need boots on the ground. We will probably have to be
:24:44. > :24:48.talking to Iran at the moment. Was the real catastrophic failure not
:24:49. > :24:54.John McTiernan and and included, going into the country in the first
:24:55. > :25:01.place? There was no Al-Qaeda Organisation in 2003 and the place
:25:02. > :25:07.is covered with them now. A man was in charge committed to the genocide
:25:08. > :25:12.of the Kurds. It is an utterly amoral position to say we would
:25:13. > :25:18.rather have a fascist dictator, a strong man, holding that they
:25:19. > :25:22.Al-Qaeda and holding at bay Irani. It is an amoral politics. We have no
:25:23. > :25:28.idea what the Coalition Government thinks. They appear to have no
:25:29. > :25:32.foreign policy in this area. They have not said we should intervene or
:25:33. > :25:37.do what ever President Obama has done. They are silent because they
:25:38. > :25:41.have no idea what to do. It is a shocking disgrace to have our
:25:42. > :25:52.government in that position. It is true that Saddam Hussein was a
:25:53. > :25:55.fascist dictatorship. There is crucifying and beheading at the
:25:56. > :26:01.moment. The difference is that these people can export back to the West.
:26:02. > :26:07.Saddam Hussein did not do that. He might have done that, Andrew. It is
:26:08. > :26:17.not true to say archives was not in Iraq before 2003. Ask the Kurds. --
:26:18. > :26:24.Al-Qaeda. Kurds were being executed and the Americans were called in.
:26:25. > :26:32.There were a handful of them and the place is awash. Please started off
:26:33. > :26:37.as a handful. Andrew is the chair of the foreign affairs select
:26:38. > :26:41.committee. We were due to go to Kurdistan this Sunday. We were given
:26:42. > :26:46.a security briefing on Tuesday and it seemed to me that people than
:26:47. > :26:56.were only vaguely aware of what was going on. I do not think we knew
:26:57. > :27:03.much of anything. What is coalition policy at the moment? It is
:27:04. > :27:12.ridiculous to say the Foreign Office has no policy. The policy has always
:27:13. > :27:17.been to recognise Iraq as a state which we supported. We will provide
:27:18. > :27:21.it with humanitarian support and political support. That will
:27:22. > :27:27.continue to be the case. This has caught at everyone. I think you
:27:28. > :27:32.would rather have a Revolutionary guard, wouldn't you? I am not sure
:27:33. > :27:37.he would like to have the Revolutionary guard from Tehran, to
:27:38. > :27:50.be honest with you. He has got it. Since when? It is pretty rich for
:27:51. > :27:55.the Iranians to be complaining. This attack from ISIS was born in an
:27:56. > :28:01.unstable region of Syria. The reason it is unstable is because the lack
:28:02. > :28:12.of support by the Iranians. You heard Richard to weigh outline
:28:13. > :28:19.coalition policy. You any the wiser? I am not. There is a savage irony
:28:20. > :28:22.that this does start in Syria so that a place that we intervened in
:28:23. > :28:28.successfully is being stabilised by a place that we did not intervene
:28:29. > :28:39.in. What is Labour 's policy in this matter? Labour 's policy is to
:28:40. > :28:42.support. It is rare for the opposition to split from what the
:28:43. > :28:49.Government is doing. The pressure is on the Government to say what they
:28:50. > :28:53.are going to do. Labour has always been clear about support for the
:28:54. > :28:59.Kurds in the autonomous region. That is the test I apply to all of this.
:29:00. > :29:04.What is in the best interests of the Kurds? What is in their best
:29:05. > :29:13.interests would be in the best interests of everyone. I think there
:29:14. > :29:22.is a dark humour in talking about us. I do not understand how our
:29:23. > :29:26.politicians can talk about we doing something militarily when you have
:29:27. > :29:34.made redundant and other round of troops this week. We have not said
:29:35. > :29:40.we will intervene militarily. That is not a policy. It is a clear
:29:41. > :29:44.policy. In international affairs quit you cannot react to a situation
:29:45. > :29:48.that started on Tuesday with an instant policy by Friday. You have
:29:49. > :29:53.to sit back, assess what is going on on the ground, and come up with
:29:54. > :29:57.something clear. That is why the Labour Party is not saying anything
:29:58. > :30:01.because they agree with that. That would be true of the Americans. They
:30:02. > :30:11.have a big decision to take. We should stop behaving as if we have
:30:12. > :30:13.any say, or any clout, in this matter whatsoever. As a permanent
:30:14. > :30:18.member of the Security Council of the United Nations, we have a lot of
:30:19. > :30:24.say in what happens with world affairs and what will happen here.
:30:25. > :30:30.What would you do? Sky I would say everybody took their eye off the
:30:31. > :30:36.ball. -- I would say. Everybody took their eye off the ball. That is a
:30:37. > :30:42.big mistake. We went into Iraq to create a democracy. We did not have
:30:43. > :30:46.a plan to do so. We lost control of southern Iraq even before we left
:30:47. > :30:53.and we ended up with a sectarian Prime Minister in Iraq, who, the
:30:54. > :31:02.first thing he did was start to attack and discriminate against
:31:03. > :31:07.Sunnis. We did have democratic elections. I was there for the first
:31:08. > :31:12.one. People turned out in their masses to vote. That was the first
:31:13. > :31:18.time they were able to vote freely. Much good it has done them. The
:31:19. > :31:22.results of the recent election means Nouri al-Maliki has not got a
:31:23. > :31:26.majority. There is a group of people all with particular points of view
:31:27. > :31:32.and he must try and pull them together as he did before. He has
:31:33. > :31:38.alienated the Sunnis, that is true. They felt they were completely left
:31:39. > :31:44.out of planning for the new Iraq. It varies from wherever you live. Some
:31:45. > :31:49.areas get 24 hours electricity, some areas only get four hours a day. I
:31:50. > :31:54.understand that. John McTernan, I would suggest to you, this is not
:31:55. > :32:00.just an Iraqi problem, it is a regional problem. The whole of the
:32:01. > :32:06.region from Beirut, from Lebanon, through to the Gulf states opposite
:32:07. > :32:10.Iran, are basically in the grip of a Sunni Shia sectarian war? That is
:32:11. > :32:16.what is going on in that part of the world. And in these circumstances,
:32:17. > :32:24.the West is unlikely to be more than a spectator? I think it is right
:32:25. > :32:29.that it is a regional conflict and it is right to see Iran in the hand
:32:30. > :32:32.of destabilisation in the region. It is wrong that you have to have a
:32:33. > :32:39.sectarian fight between Sunnis and Shia 's. It does not happen in the
:32:40. > :32:42.Kurdish region, it did not happen in Baghdad initially after the
:32:43. > :32:49.liberation. We know how to deal with ISIS. It is what we did when we were
:32:50. > :32:54.there. Using special forces work, using intelligence worked.
:32:55. > :32:58.Interrupting the line of supply for the car bombers worked. The tragedy
:32:59. > :33:03.is, the cuts the coalition have made the British Army mean we do not have
:33:04. > :33:07.a deployable force any more. There is no political appetite to deploy
:33:08. > :33:14.it either. The British people will not stand for a further deployment
:33:15. > :33:16.into the Middle East? I'm not clear about that at all. British people
:33:17. > :33:23.believe in democracy at have no options is terrible. Richard
:33:24. > :33:32.Ottaway, I wonder whether ISIS will go into Baghdad because Baghdad will
:33:33. > :33:36.be heavily defended and the Shia militia have been mobilised. It may
:33:37. > :33:42.suit their purpose is to control the western part of Iraq, where the
:33:43. > :33:46.border with Syria is now porous and they have the caliphate? I think
:33:47. > :33:51.they would like to go into Baghdad but they think it is a step too far.
:33:52. > :33:56.I think they will probably sit back now and as you alluded to, I think
:33:57. > :34:01.we'll see a regional setup here, the Kurds to the north-east, ISIS on the
:34:02. > :34:05.Syrian border and to the west and the shears to the south. We will
:34:06. > :34:09.have to leave it there. I thank all three of you for that discussion --
:34:10. > :34:16.the sheers to the south. We will cover this on the sunbaked politics
:34:17. > :34:17.as well on BBC One this Sunday. -- we will cover this on the Sunday
:34:18. > :34:21.Politics as well. We asked what David and
:34:22. > :34:25.Samantha Cameron were doing when they were spotted on
:34:26. > :34:28.a night out in central London. Was it a) Seeing the play
:34:29. > :34:29.Handbagged? b) Hanging out with celebs
:34:30. > :34:31.at the Chiltern Firehouse? c) Enjoying some peri
:34:32. > :34:33.peri chicken at Nandos? d) Partying in the notorious Soho
:34:34. > :34:36.nightclub The Box? So, Laura,
:34:37. > :34:47.what's the correct answer? It is the Chiltern Firehouse. Had he
:34:48. > :34:51.been? I have not been, I'm told there is a six month waiting list.
:34:52. > :34:55.Can you get me in? I will see what I can do.
:34:56. > :34:59.Coming up in a moment it's our regular look at what's been
:35:00. > :35:03.For now it's time to say goodbye to Laura Pitel.
:35:04. > :35:06.So for the next half an hour we're going to be focussing on Europe.
:35:07. > :35:09.We'll be discussing who'll be the next president of the
:35:10. > :35:11.EU Commission, looking at some of the new parties in the European
:35:12. > :35:15.Parliament, and asking whether the EU is right to have its own anthem.
:35:16. > :35:17.First though here's our guide to the latest from Europe,
:35:18. > :35:30.You wait for a taxi and then all turn up at once. European cities
:35:31. > :35:35.were gridlocked as cab drivers blocked streets were testing against
:35:36. > :35:42.an app which they say will push them off the board.
:35:43. > :35:44.The tax affairs of Star Bucks will be investigated to see if they are
:35:45. > :35:51.not paying their share. It was three men and a powerful
:35:52. > :35:54.woman in a boat in Sweden. David Cameron went to meet the Swedish and
:35:55. > :35:58.Dutch prime ministers and German Chancellor Angela Merkel. They rowed
:35:59. > :36:03.and then row. The PM's confidence seems to have sunk after the
:36:04. > :36:06.discussions. We're here to discuss the policies which the commission
:36:07. > :36:12.should take over the next five years. That is what the discussions
:36:13. > :36:19.have about, not people. Meanwhile, Mr Junco was in a bunker and looking
:36:20. > :36:27.decidedly fed up with us Brits. -- Claude Junco.
:36:28. > :36:30.And with us for the next 30 minutes I've been
:36:31. > :36:33.joined by two newly elected MEPs - UKIP's Margot Parker and Clare Moody
:36:34. > :36:36.from Labour - as well as the leader of the Conservative MEPs in the
:36:37. > :36:52.Let me start with the Juncker problem, if I can call it that. The
:36:53. > :36:58.main political groups have said there will be an institutional
:36:59. > :37:02.crisis if Mr Juncker is not nominated as the European Commission
:37:03. > :37:06.president. It is clear there are a number of people who are concerned
:37:07. > :37:12.about Juncker. He is yesterday's man. Some people look at him as
:37:13. > :37:17.business as usual, the Sepp Blatter of European politics. I understand
:37:18. > :37:20.that but the main groupings on the left and the right have said there
:37:21. > :37:26.will be a crisis if he is not nominated. That is not true. What
:37:27. > :37:30.will happen is the groups will discuss it, Parliament will try and
:37:31. > :37:34.push for Juncker, because they want this process which is based on the
:37:35. > :37:39.loose interpretation of the Lisbon Treaty. There are heads of
:37:40. > :37:43.government to have said clearly that Juncker was with Merkel and others
:37:44. > :37:48.the other day and they have said they want a candidate for reform. It
:37:49. > :37:55.is what most people have voted for and it is clear that Juncker does
:37:56. > :38:00.not represent reform. But Angela Merkel is going for him. Can
:38:01. > :38:04.anything stop him? Who would you like? We do not really care. They
:38:05. > :38:11.are all the same. Who would you like? One thing we are clear about
:38:12. > :38:17.is we are waiting to see what the commission will propose in terms of
:38:18. > :38:24.the new president, the Council of ministers. It is the Council of
:38:25. > :38:29.ministers. We are not in support of Juncker. It is as appointing the
:38:30. > :38:37.Cameron has played this so badly in terms of Britain's influence. What
:38:38. > :38:43.way has he played it badly? Said publicly. The way he initiated it.
:38:44. > :38:46.The battle plan that was drawn and subsequently, it seems he has done
:38:47. > :38:52.everything to alienate his allies across Europe. If you do not want
:38:53. > :38:57.somebody, it hopes to have an alternative that other people do
:38:58. > :39:01.want. Who would you have? There are other candidates who are committed
:39:02. > :39:09.to reform. A number of candidates. There is Enda Kenny out there. He
:39:10. > :39:16.has indicated he does not want it. Maybe it is about time we had a
:39:17. > :39:19.female candidate. Who would that be? What is important is we are not
:39:20. > :39:24.squabbling about who it is, we want real reform on the ground. That is
:39:25. > :39:30.the most important thing. So who would your candidate be to deliver
:39:31. > :39:36.real reform? I want to see which other alternatives are proposed. So
:39:37. > :39:44.who? He is waiting to see who comes up. It is probably Mrs Gillick --
:39:45. > :39:51.Mrs Kinnock, isn't it? You mean the Danish Prime Minister. It is a nice
:39:52. > :39:58.job, well, not really, but it does not answer my question. Lets see
:39:59. > :40:01.what comes out of this process. You are the head of this conservative
:40:02. > :40:08.reformist group which is quite a big group now. We are the largest group.
:40:09. > :40:13.I will come onto some of your allies in a minute. But what are you
:40:14. > :40:17.advising the Minister? The Prime Minister is dealing with this at
:40:18. > :40:20.head of government level. This is an institutional stand-off between a
:40:21. > :40:23.misreading of the Lisbon Treaty where people in the Parliament
:40:24. > :40:28.consider that they should propose, whereas Cameron has been clear it
:40:29. > :40:33.should be heads of government who consider who it should be. You are
:40:34. > :40:40.no socialist group, is to supporting Mr Juncker? I am speaking on behalf
:40:41. > :40:48.of the Labour Party. But the group you are part of our supporting
:40:49. > :40:52.Juncker. It is not about the institutional setup. What is the
:40:53. > :40:58.political reason? He is an architect of what has been imposed across the
:40:59. > :41:01.European Union. His political background is very different from
:41:02. > :41:09.ours. What part did he play in austerity? Reader macro his role in
:41:10. > :41:13.the commission. We are absolutely wanting to see someone who would
:41:14. > :41:20.implement policies for jobs and growth. I cannot give you names and
:41:21. > :41:25.candidates because it is the Council of Ministers. But you are allowed to
:41:26. > :41:31.have a view. In deed! I do not have a name. You do not have a view, you
:41:32. > :41:38.do not have of view and you do not care? There all the same, they all
:41:39. > :41:42.dance around the same table. We want a candidate committed to reform. But
:41:43. > :41:46.you will not tell me who it is so we will move on.
:41:47. > :41:48.The European elections three weeks ago saw big gains for protest
:41:49. > :41:51.parties and fringe groups on both the political left and right.
:41:52. > :41:54.Partly a consequence of the deep - and for some countries -
:41:55. > :41:58.As a result, Brussels will look and feel very different
:41:59. > :42:04.as many new, younger faces try and influence how Europe is governed.
:42:05. > :42:06.Jo has been to Brussels to meet some of them,
:42:07. > :42:23.It seems getting elected as an MEP is just the beginning of the party
:42:24. > :42:26.struggles to form power bases in the European Parliament. Building
:42:27. > :42:31.political alliances with like-minded people is the key to winning votes.
:42:32. > :42:36.But it is a tricky business as this week's negotiations in Brussels have
:42:37. > :42:43.shown. Many of the winners in these elections were from new protest
:42:44. > :42:48.parties, challenging the status quo. One of them, the German anti-Europe
:42:49. > :42:52.party, opponents of Miss Merkel, are clear who they want to sit with. We
:42:53. > :42:57.want to sit with people who think alike like the British
:42:58. > :43:01.Conservatives. In our own party programme for the European
:43:02. > :43:07.elections, we have made references to David Cameron's programme. There
:43:08. > :43:11.are a lot of similarities. Yesterday, there was good news for
:43:12. > :43:15.this party. Deals are being done all the time here in the European
:43:16. > :43:18.Parliament. In this meeting room behind me, the European
:43:19. > :43:23.Conservatives and reformist group, of which David Cameron's
:43:24. > :43:30.Conservatives are part, have decided formally to admit a new group of
:43:31. > :43:32.German MEPs. But making new political acquaintances risks
:43:33. > :43:39.alienating more important friends. The reason why David Cameron warned
:43:40. > :43:42.his own MEPs to vote against admitting the German Chancellor's
:43:43. > :43:48.arch rivals into their ranks because Angela would be furious. It was not
:43:49. > :43:54.enough, the new chair of the group, Tory MEP Syed Kamall put on a brave
:43:55. > :43:59.face. David Cameron has made his these absolutely clear about the
:44:00. > :44:04.AFD. He asked me to pass that view on. Now was not the time to look
:44:05. > :44:07.back, it is time to look forward. Questions were also asked about why
:44:08. > :44:12.the Conservatives are sitting with the Danish People's party and the
:44:13. > :44:16.True Finns, whose views on immigration and Islam are
:44:17. > :44:24.unacceptable, according to Labour. Nigel Farage was on an offensive
:44:25. > :44:29.with the Italian media. He needs an Italian party on board to form a
:44:30. > :44:35.parliamentary group. Without it, there will no access to funding and
:44:36. > :44:40.committee posts. Nigel Farage is the one who has been flirting with us
:44:41. > :44:45.more than others. How has he been flirting with you? Not with me
:44:46. > :44:51.personally, but with my party. He has been talking to us. He probably
:44:52. > :44:58.sees a different vision of Europe. Last night, they were celebrating
:44:59. > :45:01.after an online referendum of 5-star Movement's supporters found a
:45:02. > :45:05.majority favoured an alliance with Europe. Federalism versus euro
:45:06. > :45:14.scepticism is not the only fault line. Pro-and anti-austerity parties
:45:15. > :45:17.are also set to do battle. A new Greek far left party came first in
:45:18. > :45:21.the elections and wants an end to the austerity measures of the past
:45:22. > :45:27.few years. It is a catastrophe for the whole of Europe. It is
:45:28. > :45:32.increasing explosion of inequalities and if it doesn't work, it creates a
:45:33. > :45:37.lot of pain. The other goal is to stop the rise of far right parties
:45:38. > :45:42.like the Front nationality. The party came first in the poll in
:45:43. > :45:45.France but has not yet found enough partners for its new European
:45:46. > :45:46.Alliance for freedom group. Sources say they are still one country
:45:47. > :46:07.short. You had some good news some good
:46:08. > :46:12.news last night. You need seven countries. How far short you? I
:46:13. > :46:22.cannot answer that. They are all negotiating. We are working at it.
:46:23. > :46:28.We are not going to the beach. What other possible candidates would you
:46:29. > :46:30.like to see? What are your targets? Our targets really are the
:46:31. > :46:35.negotiations are completely wide open at the moment. I cannot give
:46:36. > :46:41.you those. You cannot give me one political party you may be looking
:46:42. > :46:45.at. Do you still rule out the French National Front? They are really
:46:46. > :46:50.unfortunate. They have very far right views. They do not sit well
:46:51. > :46:54.with UKIP. We do not and will not sit with them. If you get a
:46:55. > :47:01.grouping, what benefit will you get from that? Will you get more money?
:47:02. > :47:06.We have the ability to have more staff. We have more research, more
:47:07. > :47:12.publications, more airtime. You can get your message out much more
:47:13. > :47:15.easily. When I saw Nigel Farage in Brussels earlier this week he said
:47:16. > :47:21.the Conservatives are really gaining up to stop this. They would try to
:47:22. > :47:23.pick off as many as they could. That is what they do, it is what we
:47:24. > :47:29.expect. It is what happens. It is what they do, it is what we
:47:30. > :47:38.politics. We want to impart on the largest growing group. We are the
:47:39. > :47:44.third largest group. You have admitted the German AFD, which is a
:47:45. > :47:50.rather moderate Eurosceptic group in Germany. The Conservative leadership
:47:51. > :47:57.in London told you not to. David Cameron setup the group. It is now
:47:58. > :48:02.the growing group. He did not want AFD. He asked me as leader of the
:48:03. > :48:08.Conservatives to request MEPs not to vote for them. Because we are the
:48:09. > :48:16.fastest-growing group, we are 19 out of 63 MEPs from 13 countries. We do
:48:17. > :48:22.not have the majority. Some of the new MEPs voted for AFD. We do not
:48:23. > :48:28.know that. It was a majority of one. Do you regret you voted to have AFD
:48:29. > :48:31.joined a group? I am the leader of the group and I have to look
:48:32. > :48:33.forward. We must make sure we must make sure we're looking forward to
:48:34. > :48:37.the future and we are committed to reform. AFD have said they are
:48:38. > :48:41.committed to reform. Within the European Parliament, we are going to
:48:42. > :48:48.be the only group committed to reform in the European group. We are
:48:49. > :48:54.going to be at the forefront. Let's have a look at who is part of this
:48:55. > :49:03.consensus. Let's look at the Danish People's party. I you happy with
:49:04. > :49:10.them? A spokesman once like all -- likened the Muslim headscarf to the
:49:11. > :49:13.swastika. I had a conversation with them and asked them about the
:49:14. > :49:16.allegations. They said they had moved on and would move towards the
:49:17. > :49:21.future for a mainstream party. Let's face it. These very same people you
:49:22. > :49:26.through accusations that are the same people who voted for me. Look
:49:27. > :49:36.at me, Andrew! The first Muslim leader of any digital group in the
:49:37. > :49:40.Muslim Parliament. How can you tell me which people voted for you? I
:49:41. > :49:49.know the results of the ballot. It is quite clear who voted for me.
:49:50. > :49:53.Morton is the leader of the party. He was actually convicted for
:49:54. > :49:56.publishing material of a link between a multiethnic society and
:49:57. > :50:01.rape, violence and forced marriages. I sat down with him and had a
:50:02. > :50:08.conversation. He said, I was young, foolish, I have moved on. I want to
:50:09. > :50:13.grow up. Are you happy to have these people as friends? As a party
:50:14. > :50:19.committed to reform and committed to building a new Europe for 2015, not
:50:20. > :50:24.looking back to the 1950s, it is exciting we can help people move
:50:25. > :50:38.into the mainstream of policy. -- politics. It is claimed that is lamp
:50:39. > :50:48.reveres paedophilia. It is not claimed that. -- Islam. I read the
:50:49. > :50:56.blog and the blog said quite clearly, it was a freedom of speech
:50:57. > :51:03.issue. They did not like being in the centre-right group because they
:51:04. > :51:09.thought it was fabulous. -- Federalist. Why don't you, that
:51:10. > :51:16.group? Sky we think it is important to have influence at European Union
:51:17. > :51:25.level. -- we think. We are now the only UK party with a part of the
:51:26. > :51:29.mainstream politics -- which is part of mainstream politics in the
:51:30. > :51:35.European Union. We are after getting reform, bringing about the gross
:51:36. > :51:41.Commissioner. It is about getting investment kick started properly.
:51:42. > :51:45.Unless you believe in federalism, which I don't think you do, as he
:51:46. > :51:49.probably would not be allowed to by Mr Miller band at the moment, you
:51:50. > :51:56.will belong to a group you do not actually agree with. There are more
:51:57. > :52:03.things we do agree with our colleagues across the European Union
:52:04. > :52:05.than things we disagree with. This issue of federalism would be
:52:06. > :52:09.something that is determined at the council of ministers, determined
:52:10. > :52:16.across 28 countries. I do not believe across those 28 countries
:52:17. > :52:21.there is an appetite to suddenly federalise, roller head to
:52:22. > :52:34.federalism. That is the policy of Mr shorts and he is your leader.
:52:35. > :52:44.Absolutely. -- Schulz. Which you have voted for him? We remained
:52:45. > :52:51.neutral. It is an awful beauty parade. You're talking about
:52:52. > :52:59.influence. We do not have any. You ask officially in the same pool for
:53:00. > :53:03.candidates. -- you are fishing in the same pool for candidates. I
:53:04. > :53:14.reject it. Unlike the Danish People's party. They are on a
:53:15. > :53:18.political journey and they are committed to reform. I am glad you
:53:19. > :53:30.are excited. I hope you will be one day.
:53:31. > :53:34.You probably know what the flag of the EU looks like - 12 yellow
:53:35. > :53:38.But did you know the European Union also has its own official anthem?
:53:39. > :53:40.Or that there's a special EU Day every May?
:53:41. > :53:53.Here's Adam with the latest of our A to Z guides to Europe.
:53:54. > :54:05.The gift shop at the European Parliament. Proof you can put the EU
:54:06. > :54:09.flag on just about anything. It is a serious business for this man, he is
:54:10. > :54:24.head of protocol in Parliament. That means flax. We have two kinds of
:54:25. > :54:31.flags. For the member states, we have better quality ones. They are
:54:32. > :54:39.made of silk. The common flag is in polyester. That is a less noble
:54:40. > :54:43.material. The rules say the European flag should be flown in every
:54:44. > :54:50.meeting room and at every event and flowing correctly. It has a sense in
:54:51. > :54:57.the way that the styles are always looking, the hat right up and the
:54:58. > :55:01.feet, two feet open. Imagine it looked like this or this. These are
:55:02. > :55:07.some of the rejects from the competition to design the flag held
:55:08. > :55:14.in the 50s. It was originally the council of Europe, which oversees
:55:15. > :55:19.the Court of Human Rights. In 1985 a bit of global branding was required.
:55:20. > :55:26.In the present world, it is important. As national states, we
:55:27. > :55:35.are really too small compared with these big countries like India or
:55:36. > :55:41.China or let's say Brazil. It is instantly recognisable but you can
:55:42. > :56:00.hum it. Unlike the EU official anthem, Owed To Joy by Beethoven. He
:56:01. > :56:04.revealed all about it. It is the scale and the harmony. It is very
:56:05. > :56:09.simple. More simple you cannot. Beethoven was a genius because of
:56:10. > :56:17.that. A simplicity founded music of all cultures and all ages. It is
:56:18. > :56:23.completely universal. More universal, more federal, more
:56:24. > :56:28.European. More for everybody cannot find. Who knows the other emblems?
:56:29. > :56:32.United in diversity of Europe 's official day, maybe ninth, if you
:56:33. > :56:40.have your Euro branded calendar to hand. Then there is the symbol for
:56:41. > :56:46.the Euro which is chosen because it looks like the Greek letter,
:56:47. > :56:47.Epsilon. The two lines in the middle are meant to represent stability and
:56:48. > :57:08.reliability. How is that going? Adam Fleming reporting. Does Europe
:57:09. > :57:15.need its own anthem? Absolutely not. We are 28 member states. I do not
:57:16. > :57:19.really need to ask you that. I will bring my own Union Jack and carry it
:57:20. > :57:32.at all times. By Maggie do you have it on you? -- do you have it on you?
:57:33. > :57:39.It is a beautiful piece of music. Beethoven. You are happy with the
:57:40. > :57:46.national anthem? Not the national anthem, the European... What did you
:57:47. > :57:50.do to celebrate the day? It was made a seventh, the run-up to the
:57:51. > :57:57.European elections. I was undoubtedly on doorsteps. I was
:57:58. > :58:03.knocking on doors, campaigning for further European form. You must have
:58:04. > :58:08.celebrated EU day. I knocked on doors and lots of people told me all
:58:09. > :58:12.the ills of the EU. I separated by telling what people told me. I was
:58:13. > :58:16.delighted they would vote for us. David Cameron talked about British
:58:17. > :58:22.values, Angela Merkel talked about the European spirit. What is the
:58:23. > :58:28.difference? Weird gree with an outward looking -- we agree with an
:58:29. > :58:35.outward looking Europe. By tabloid talk about British values against
:58:36. > :58:41.European spirit. -- we talk about. We believe in freedom and tolerance.
:58:42. > :58:49.The Europeans do not? They aren't against a one size fits all Europe.
:58:50. > :58:55.-- they are against. Stop arguing. Next to my guests. Goodbye. --
:58:56. > :59:05.thanks to my guests. MUSIC: "The Yeah Yeah Yeah Song"
:59:06. > :59:05.by the Flaming Lips # Yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah
:59:06. > :59:06.Yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah MUSIC: "The Yeah Yeah Yeah Song"
:59:07. > :59:12.by the Flaming Lips # Yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah
:59:13. > :59:18.Yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah