:00:36. > :00:40.David Cameron takes his battle against Jean Claude Juncker to
:00:41. > :00:43.Brussels, where all the signs are he'll fail to stop his appointment
:00:44. > :00:50.Mr Cameron remains defiant though, insisting he'll force other leaders
:00:51. > :00:57.to vote on the issue and warning of the need to embrace reform.
:00:58. > :01:01.After the row over Oxfam's poster campaign, we ask how political
:01:02. > :01:08.And what impact will the Bank of England Governor's new rules
:01:09. > :01:18.on mortgage lending have on Britain's housing market?
:01:19. > :01:21.All that in the next hour and with us for the whole programme
:01:22. > :01:25.today I'm joined by two estimable political commentators -
:01:26. > :01:39.Iain Martin from the Telegraph and Zoe Williams of the Guardian.
:01:40. > :01:41.Now while all eyes are on David Cameron and
:01:42. > :01:44.his epic battle in Brussels against the appointment of Jean Claude
:01:45. > :01:47.Juncker, European leaders have other business to attend to today.
:01:48. > :01:51.The President of the Ukraine is also in Brussels to sign the
:01:52. > :01:55.Association Agreement with the EU which sparked last year's coup and
:01:56. > :02:09.Today's events do not please Vladimir Putin.
:02:10. > :02:11.Here's his spokesman, Sergei Glazyev, speaking to
:02:12. > :03:04.the BBC's Steve Rosenberg. Given it was his attempt to get closer to
:03:05. > :03:11.Europe that got the Russians wild in the first place, will face stop
:03:12. > :03:16.things up again? Obviously that is the question one asks, but the EU
:03:17. > :03:20.cannot stay out of this forever. The constant refrain is maybe if we
:03:21. > :03:24.don't say too much of this will go away, or Vladimir Putin will get
:03:25. > :03:29.what he wants and his ambitions will be over. At some point the bodies
:03:30. > :03:34.that were set up to establish equilibria and peace have got to put
:03:35. > :03:38.their cards on the table. Whether it is exit or not, I don't see what
:03:39. > :03:42.they can do. The Russians don't like the idea of being encircled. They
:03:43. > :03:48.are not being encircled militarily, obviously, but they don't like
:03:49. > :03:56.people that are in the near sphere of influence getting muscled in on
:03:57. > :04:01.by the Europeans. Absolutely. Vladimir is a fascinating guy. He
:04:02. > :04:06.stood against Putin in 2004. It suggests that he is a pretty brave
:04:07. > :04:09.guy and then he was hired in 2012 by Putin to set up the customs union
:04:10. > :04:14.because the Russians wanted to control most of the former Soviet
:04:15. > :04:18.states. It talks a lot to what is happening with Mr Juncker at the
:04:19. > :04:22.moment. We think of Europe from a British point of view but if you
:04:23. > :04:34.look at the opinion polls attacking David Cameron, that is really about
:04:35. > :04:37.the rise of Russia and the Polish fear of a resurgent Russia, and if
:04:38. > :04:44.the polls see anyone causing disruption to European Union unity,
:04:45. > :04:49.that is a threat. That is such an interesting point of view. In
:04:50. > :04:53.discourse we have seen nobody as a territorial threat. But if they
:04:54. > :04:59.are... That is why Mr Cameron's erstwhile ally the polls are now
:05:00. > :05:03.siding with Germany. They have to stick with Germany like glue. It is
:05:04. > :05:13.fascinating. I wish it was not quite so close.
:05:14. > :05:26.It would be worth seeing what the fallout is. David Cameron is also in
:05:27. > :05:28.Brussels today. The Finnish PM this morning said
:05:29. > :05:31.that the people of the UK "need to wake up and smell the coffee" when
:05:32. > :05:34.it comes to the European Union. So, as Jean Claude Juncker looks set
:05:35. > :05:38.to get the top job at the European Commission, what else is brewing
:05:39. > :05:40.in the world of European politics? A new President of the European
:05:41. > :05:44.Council will have to be chosen: the Danish Prime Minister Helle
:05:45. > :05:47.Thorning-Schmidt has been tipped as a possible contender to take
:05:48. > :05:54.over from Hermann van Rompuy. The EU also needs to find
:05:55. > :05:56.a new foreign policy chief, known as the High Representative
:05:57. > :05:59.for Foreign Affairs. The Italian Foreign Minister,
:06:00. > :06:04.Federica Mogherini, is a name There also some key economic
:06:05. > :06:12.portfolios in the Commission that member states
:06:13. > :06:15.are keen to get their hands on: competition,
:06:16. > :06:17.economic and monetary affairs, Andrew Lansley is seen
:06:18. > :06:23.a leading candidate to be sent to Brussels as a Commissioner but it's
:06:24. > :06:29.by no means assured that the UK will And finally the European Parliament
:06:30. > :06:37.will choose a new President: Martin Schulz, the previous
:06:38. > :06:40.president, could well get the job As he arrived
:06:41. > :06:50.in Brussels this morning, David Cameron reiterated his
:06:51. > :07:03.opposition to Jean-Claude Juncker. The European elections showed there
:07:04. > :07:09.is huge disquiet about the way the European Union works. Yet, the
:07:10. > :07:14.response, I believe, will be wrong on two grounds. It is not right for
:07:15. > :07:18.the elected heads of government of the European countries to give up
:07:19. > :07:23.their right to nominate the head of the European Commission, the most
:07:24. > :07:28.important role in Europe. That is a bad principle and it is the wrong
:07:29. > :07:34.person. He has been at the heart of the project to increase the power of
:07:35. > :07:38.Brussels the power of nation states for his entire working life. He is
:07:39. > :07:44.not the right person. I am very clear about right thing to do. You
:07:45. > :07:58.have to stand up for what you believe and vote accordingly. Let's
:07:59. > :08:03.speak to our political editor. Those voters who care about it, which is a
:08:04. > :08:11.minority, they are on his side and back benches love it. What is being
:08:12. > :08:14.said about it? Was a poll done by the financial Times which asked
:08:15. > :08:23.voters what they would think of the Prime Minister losing but fighting.
:08:24. > :08:27.Losing but fighting is popular. He did not think it would be like this.
:08:28. > :08:32.He thought the Germans were onside and were the Swedes and the Danes.
:08:33. > :08:36.One by one, as Angela Merkel changed her mind, all the others changed
:08:37. > :08:43.theirs as well and he finds himself on his own. He is trying to snatch
:08:44. > :08:47.some form of moral victory for the defeat for his negotiating strategy
:08:48. > :08:50.by saying to voters at home, as well as people here in Brussels, you
:08:51. > :08:58.might think I am the sort of guy who changes his mind when I am on the
:08:59. > :09:02.losing side, I might do a deal here or a deal that would take a
:09:03. > :09:09.compromise, I will not. This is where I stand. This is what I do.
:09:10. > :09:14.This man is being chosen by a process he does not believe in. Am I
:09:15. > :09:19.right in detecting that a lot of the other European leaders are bit fed
:09:20. > :09:27.up with them? The criticism is getting a bit bitter about Mr
:09:28. > :09:31.Cameron. The wake up and smell the costly line was directed at the
:09:32. > :09:36.British voter rather than David Cameron. You can stand as the cars
:09:37. > :09:39.roll up and Prime Ministers and presidents come to the cameras and
:09:40. > :09:45.talk. Many of them are being asked by their own media in the own
:09:46. > :09:49.languages about David Cameron. I managed to speak to quite a few of
:09:50. > :09:53.them in English. They go out of their way and say, yes, David
:09:54. > :10:00.Cameron loses today but we do not want them to leave. The Danish Prime
:10:01. > :10:04.Minister was expected to be a key ally. It was about Britain being
:10:05. > :10:10.back in the game after today. What they are trying to do is to say,
:10:11. > :10:15.look, forget the man, let's look at the agenda for the next five years
:10:16. > :10:18.in the EU being agreed here. They claimed that is more to British
:10:19. > :10:26.tastes than it might otherwise have been. I think we know the outcome
:10:27. > :10:32.today. What happens after that? Does the bitterness linger on and begin
:10:33. > :10:37.to affect European attitudes towards Britain in other matters? It clearly
:10:38. > :10:41.has to be a danger that European leaders think maybe there is nothing
:10:42. > :10:45.we can do or say. Maybe David Cameron has made his mind that he
:10:46. > :10:51.constantly has to be at war with us. Maybe the British people are
:10:52. > :10:55.beginning to make their minds up to go. British diplomats are determined
:10:56. > :10:59.that not happen. There certainly is this case that when Angela Merkel
:11:00. > :11:04.talked yesterday, she used the phrase, good compromises for
:11:05. > :11:08.Britain. There may be a pang of conscience in the mind of the German
:11:09. > :11:13.Chancellor. Maybe I did give him the suggestion I was onside and I now
:11:14. > :11:16.have to give him a lot in return. What the British Government is
:11:17. > :11:22.banking on is there are a lot of countries, for all they find Britain
:11:23. > :11:26.irritating and these rows frustrating, like Britain onside in
:11:27. > :11:31.particular over arguments about free trade. If you are a German, a
:11:32. > :11:36.Swede, a Dane or a Dutchman, you want to free market for use within
:11:37. > :11:44.the EU, you do not want Germany to be alone, if you like, running what
:11:45. > :11:49.one British official called the Club Med of Nations. You look like you
:11:50. > :11:59.are in the Club Med right now, it is so bright. Thank you for joining us!
:12:00. > :12:10.Watch out for the sun! The BBC political editor marking our card as
:12:11. > :12:28.always. At this stage, we had hoped to be joined by Sajjad Karim, but he
:12:29. > :12:34.is not here at the moment. Tell us about Jean Claude Juncker. Why would
:12:35. > :12:42.he make a good president? You said we would be backing him. We have not
:12:43. > :12:45.decided that yet. We want that the council nominates Jean Claude
:12:46. > :12:51.Juncker. He will be running for the jobs. It would be nice if the Greens
:12:52. > :12:58.had got in those seats. They did not. Once he is nominated, we want
:12:59. > :13:01.to have a hearing with him in our group and have all the green members
:13:02. > :13:09.of the European Parliament asking questions to him and we will see
:13:10. > :13:13.what his programme is. The way Mr Cameron wants to reform Europe, and
:13:14. > :13:16.I agree you have to change things, I actually agree when he says that we
:13:17. > :13:23.need to really change the way the European works. Part of that is more
:13:24. > :13:27.democracy, more solidarity, more of a social union. I want to see what
:13:28. > :13:30.Jean Claude Juncker proposes in those areas when it comes to
:13:31. > :13:36.fighting climate change and coming out of the crisis. We will not buy a
:13:37. > :13:42.less Europe programme like Mr Cameron wants to see it. Did you say
:13:43. > :13:49.that Jean Claude Juncker had a Cameron programme? Well, I mean,
:13:50. > :13:54.they're clearly as to be a deal. Jean Claude Juncker will be
:13:55. > :14:04.nominated and now be a lot of pressure on him. We want to hear
:14:05. > :14:10.from Jean Claude Juncker what he proposes and how he wants to ensure
:14:11. > :14:14.that peoples worries about social issues are important, how he wants
:14:15. > :14:19.to create jobs and fight climate change. It is important for us and I
:14:20. > :14:23.would find it very problematic if now the deal for Mr Cameron is that
:14:24. > :14:28.now they nominate Jean Claude Juncker but then he gets a programme
:14:29. > :14:32.which is completely a Tory one. Your line from Berlin is breaking up a
:14:33. > :14:37.bit. Stick with us we are going to stick with you. We now have Sajjad
:14:38. > :14:44.Karim with us who has joined us in the studio in London. Why don't you
:14:45. > :14:52.want Jean Claude Juncker when almost everyone else in Europe seems to be
:14:53. > :14:55.gathering around him? It is quite clear if you look at the recent
:14:56. > :14:59.European Parliament elections, people are not happy with the status
:15:00. > :15:05.quo as it is. Mr Juncker is a face from the past and it is a time now
:15:06. > :15:10.for new faces and new ideas, a wholesale reform programme to take
:15:11. > :15:16.place. Mr Juncker is simply not an individual who has a record that
:15:17. > :15:20.would stand to be tested that he is the man who can deliver this. Europe
:15:21. > :15:24.is divided over Jean-Claude Juncker. We have just heard from the
:15:25. > :15:30.Green party that they have not yet made up their minds. What Mr Cameron
:15:31. > :15:37.has done, instead of being divided against Mr Juncker, Europe is now
:15:38. > :15:40.divided against Mr Cameron. We have ensured that this process becomes
:15:41. > :15:45.much more transparent. If you look at what the treaties say, we have
:15:46. > :15:49.acted in accordance with that. We are taking into account the European
:15:50. > :15:53.Parliament election results but the responsibility remains with the
:15:54. > :15:58.heads of state in Council and consultation takes a part of the
:15:59. > :16:03.process as is required under the Lisbon Treaty, and that is exactly
:16:04. > :16:07.what is happening now. Ska Keller, I hope the line has restored itself.
:16:08. > :16:14.If not Mr Juncker for the Green party, who? You have not got another
:16:15. > :16:20.choice, have you? As I said, we want Mr Juncker to be nominated by the
:16:21. > :16:24.council. He has the right to find a majority in the Parliament. Whether
:16:25. > :16:35.we are part of the majority, we will see if that is linked to the
:16:36. > :16:39.programme. INAUDIBLE. I am sorry but if the bigger parties did not manage
:16:40. > :16:45.to find someone among them bringing the fresh new ideas, new and fresh
:16:46. > :16:49.faces, then I am really sorry. They could have put forward their own
:16:50. > :16:57.candidate but Mr Juncker was backed by many heads of state. INAUDIBLE. I
:16:58. > :17:03.really have to apologise. I have got to interrupt you. I am fascinated by
:17:04. > :17:07.what you are saying but there is a technical problem on the line.
:17:08. > :17:11.Please come back onto the programme when we get the line sorted out on
:17:12. > :17:15.another day and we can hear your perspective. Many apologies to you
:17:16. > :17:20.but thank you for what you have told us so far. We hope we can get you
:17:21. > :17:25.back on the programme. Where does this leave Mr Cameron? It leaves him
:17:26. > :17:32.isolated. Perversely in this case it is probably not a bad place to be.
:17:33. > :17:35.In terms of domestic politics? Domestically it is perfectly healthy
:17:36. > :17:41.that he finds himself in this position. For the European Union it
:17:42. > :17:46.is an absolute catastrophe. This is a very significant, important
:17:47. > :17:51.historical turning point, potentially, and this could be the
:17:52. > :17:54.week that the door is opened to Britain leaving and I speak as
:17:55. > :18:00.someone in favour of reform and trying to stay in. But in choosing
:18:01. > :18:02.Jean-Claude Juncker, the rest of Europe is essentially saying that
:18:03. > :18:10.kind of reform that Britain once is off the table. The European election
:18:11. > :18:12.showed that there was a lot of unhappiness with the way Europe is
:18:13. > :18:18.going across the continent at the moment. Some people will see it as a
:18:19. > :18:22.bit of a slap in the face that you then choose as the new President
:18:23. > :18:26.someone synonymous with the old way of doing things. Look, he is
:18:27. > :18:31.synonymous with the old way of doing things but he does have a programme
:18:32. > :18:34.of increased federalism and the European line, which is true, is
:18:35. > :18:38.that you cannot have a currency that you all share if you do not have
:18:39. > :18:46.other mechanisms that you all share. But we don't all share it. We don't,
:18:47. > :18:50.obviously. So federalism for the eurozone or the EU? We don't share
:18:51. > :18:55.it but we cannot interfere with their attempts to draw it together.
:18:56. > :19:00.But he is President of the EU, not the eurozone. We have to understand
:19:01. > :19:04.their priorities as people try to get out of depression in many
:19:05. > :19:09.cases, and keep their currencies together, which are different to our
:19:10. > :19:13.priorities. I don't see David Cameron in an involved chess game,
:19:14. > :19:17.ten moves ahead of anyone else, instead I see a man up turning the
:19:18. > :19:22.chessboard and saying he does not play test because he has read that
:19:23. > :19:25.is what the British opinion polls want him to say. That might work
:19:26. > :19:32.well domestically. Does Mr Juncker's appointment matter in the
:19:33. > :19:35.end in terms of Mr Cameron's reform agenda and the repatriation of
:19:36. > :19:40.power? The people who determined that in the end will be the
:19:41. > :19:43.Chancellor of Germany and the President of France. Does it really
:19:44. > :19:48.matter if Mr Juncker is there or not? What does matter is the work
:19:49. > :19:55.programme that he will have to follow. I imagine that is the very
:19:56. > :20:01.thing that will be debated in Belgium right now. We have to make
:20:02. > :20:04.sure the work programme is right. We shouldn't lose sight of the fact
:20:05. > :20:09.this is not the only top job on offer at the moment in Brussels.
:20:10. > :20:14.There are other very significant positions, where if we can manoeuvre
:20:15. > :20:18.and get our people into place, we stand to benefit greatly. What is
:20:19. > :20:22.happening here, actually I am very encouraged by it. For the first time
:20:23. > :20:26.we are seeing European politics is being made transparent. When was the
:20:27. > :20:38.last time we saw this kind of debate taking place right across Europe
:20:39. > :20:40.about the types of personalities we need to have in these important
:20:41. > :20:42.positions? It is hardly transparent with the federalists claiming Mr
:20:43. > :20:45.Juncker is the choice of the European voters. The number of
:20:46. > :20:53.voters in Germany who knew that Mr Juncker was a candidate could fit
:20:54. > :20:55.into one Munich beer Seller! You are the Conservative nominating
:20:56. > :21:01.President. It is not going to happen, is it? We have put forward a
:21:02. > :21:07.strong programme. I did not ask about the programme. I said it would
:21:08. > :21:11.not happen. Yesterday evening and important publication in Brussels
:21:12. > :21:16.called the European Voice came out and said that the linkage of the
:21:17. > :21:18.European Parliament's presidency with the European Commission
:21:19. > :21:23.presidency by Martin Schultz is the wrong thing for him to do and this
:21:24. > :21:27.is an exercise of deceit. Now it is up to the MEPs. They have a secret
:21:28. > :21:33.vote as to whether they fall into line with this exercise of defeat.
:21:34. > :21:39.Or do they stand for what European citizens want? Will you give us the
:21:40. > :21:43.first interview? I will be on the first train over, Andrew. Having
:21:44. > :21:48.seen our link to Brussels, I am not surprised you will come back on the
:21:49. > :21:53.train! Thank you! How careful the British charities need to be about
:21:54. > :21:57.straying into British politics? Should politicians be more relaxed
:21:58. > :22:06.when charities turned their campaigns to policy? This follows
:22:07. > :22:11.her out over an Oxford -- a row over an Oxfam poster which politicians
:22:12. > :22:14.said amounted to campaigning. Politicians like being associated
:22:15. > :22:20.with charities and charitable works and make no mistake, charities and
:22:21. > :22:24.enjoy and benefit from link to politicians. But recently one of the
:22:25. > :22:27.Prime Minister's fold complained that one charity had stopped being a
:22:28. > :22:31.charity and was sailing dangerously close to being a group of
:22:32. > :22:36.politicians with an agenda that looked very similar to that of the
:22:37. > :22:40.Labour Party. The perfect storm poster was Oxfam promoting a report
:22:41. > :22:44.it was publishing on ongoing work that it is calling breadline
:22:45. > :22:48.Britain. But it got caught in a storm of its own. We have the
:22:49. > :22:53.Government giving unrestricted grants to charities and then
:22:54. > :22:57.charities using that money to lobby the charity that money to lobby the
:22:58. > :23:06.charity I think that is an abuse and it should come to an end. -- that
:23:07. > :23:10.money to lobby the Government. I am all for lobbying. But if you give
:23:11. > :23:21.money to Oxfam you think it will alleviate poverty in poor parts of
:23:22. > :23:26.the world and not be involved in politics in this country. Oxfam
:23:27. > :23:29.defended themselves on their website. They said they'd do it
:23:30. > :23:35.straight into policy areas but they are not politically biased. They are
:23:36. > :23:39.very careful to make sure they are not party politically aligned. I
:23:40. > :23:42.know that of Oxfam. I know that of other reputable development
:23:43. > :23:47.agencies. That does not mean they are not political and that is where
:23:48. > :23:51.people get confused. Political means dealing with issues like poverty and
:23:52. > :23:55.riots and they are political issues. Oxfam and other major charities
:23:56. > :23:59.lobby Government all the time, but for the MP who made the complaint,
:24:00. > :24:10.there is a wider problem. If you look at the list of some of the
:24:11. > :24:13.so-called charity leaders who attacked me in The Times newspaper
:24:14. > :24:15.recently, a good number of them have stood for the Labour Party in
:24:16. > :24:17.general elections, they have advised Gordon Brown and Tony Blair, and
:24:18. > :24:21.they are coming into charities and using their position to campaign
:24:22. > :24:27.against people who wear their political opponents. The sad thing
:24:28. > :24:32.for me is the debate becomes whether it is right to say this rather than
:24:33. > :24:39.a debate about poverty, what causes it and what can be done. We should
:24:40. > :24:44.not get off into focusing on Oxfam's poster. Many charities
:24:45. > :24:49.survive on donations alone but some receive grants from Government.
:24:50. > :24:51.Critics of the Oxfam policy say that greater transparency and
:24:52. > :24:56.accountability of how taxpayers' money is spent would be better. The
:24:57. > :25:00.charity says they are looking into the post and will report on whether
:25:01. > :25:09.it breached charity guidelines soon. -- the poster. Did they crossed the
:25:10. > :25:14.line? Absolutely. When I saw it I thought it was a Labour Party
:25:15. > :25:20.poster. People who go into Oxfam stores and donate money to Oxfam, I
:25:21. > :25:23.think they have a fairly clear idea that Oxfam is about dealing with
:25:24. > :25:31.famine and hunger and poverty abroad. That is the principal point.
:25:32. > :25:34.I think the danger here is that some of the big charities appear to have
:25:35. > :25:38.been captured by people who would really like to be in politics in
:25:39. > :25:41.Whitehall, running things, but in the five years that they are not
:25:42. > :25:47.they can get a gig outside and behave politically. They should
:25:48. > :25:50.stick to charity. If that were a Labour Party campaign poster, I
:25:51. > :25:54.would be delighted if the Labour Party were saying things that French
:25:55. > :26:01.ad about what is wrong. It was not party political. All poverty is
:26:02. > :26:07.political, as a spokesperson said. The idea that you cannot raise money
:26:08. > :26:10.for poverty is preposterous. The idea that Oxfam should be
:26:11. > :26:13.campaigning abroad is very strange. If you can see people below the
:26:14. > :26:19.poverty line having trouble putting food on their own tables in your own
:26:20. > :26:24.country, to say we only deal with Tanzania is perverse. And
:26:25. > :26:29.furthermore, the reason the Trussell Trust was set up was because the
:26:30. > :26:31.founder of it was working abroad and in Salisbury he did a phone in and
:26:32. > :26:40.somebody rang up and said this is all very well but I cannot even feed
:26:41. > :26:44.my own children. OK, set up a charity and if someone wants to
:26:45. > :26:50.campaign on poverty in the UK, do that, fine, no problem. It is the
:26:51. > :26:54.deceit. If you ask most people, and I have certainly bought things from
:26:55. > :26:58.an Oxfam book store and people do, I think I would now think twice about
:26:59. > :27:03.it after that poster. You only want poor people abroad to get money but
:27:04. > :27:07.not people in England. I think the pollution of a big, respected
:27:08. > :27:12.charity who does fantastic work abroad, the pollution of that by
:27:13. > :27:18.political hacks is disgraceful. We have to move on but an interesting
:27:19. > :27:27.debate. It has been an interesting week in politics. Here is our 60
:27:28. > :27:34.secondary cap. -- recapture. Andy Coulson was found guilty of phone
:27:35. > :27:37.hacking. The PM said sorry for hiring him. I am really sorry for
:27:38. > :27:41.hiring him. It was the wrong decision and I'm clear about that.
:27:42. > :27:46.The judge was hacked off with him for talking about a live case. The
:27:47. > :27:51.debate continues about ISAs. William Hague went to Baghdad for a flying
:27:52. > :27:56.visit. You wait ages for a high speed railway line and then a third
:27:57. > :28:04.one turns up as the Chancellor announced the bozos to improve
:28:05. > :28:09.connections up North. I am here to -- proposals to improve connections
:28:10. > :28:13.up North. Instead of popping the housing bubble, the Bank of England
:28:14. > :28:22.went more of a gentle fizzing, with curbs on mortgage lenders. No more
:28:23. > :28:29.than 15% of any number of total mortgages should be at or above 4.5
:28:30. > :28:33.times the borrower's income. That was the governor of the Bank of
:28:34. > :28:37.England bringing in curbs on mortgage lending to take heat out of
:28:38. > :28:41.the market especially in London and the South East. They also indicated
:28:42. > :28:47.on the Today programme that interest rates would not go above 3% even by
:28:48. > :28:53.2017. That is the end of the programme for today. Thank you to
:28:54. > :28:57.our guests. I will be back on Sunday on BBC One with Sunday Politics and
:28:58. > :29:02.before then on Newsnight. Try to join me. Goodbye.