:00:37. > :00:38.Morning, folks, and welcome to the Daily Politics.
:00:39. > :00:41.The Prime Minister's former Director of Communications has been sentenced
:00:42. > :00:48.to 18 months in prison for phone hacking. We'll bring you the latest
:00:49. > :00:50.reaction. A bottle of single malt whisky is
:00:51. > :00:53.about to be smashed against the hull of the Navy?s biggest ever warship.
:00:54. > :00:59.But is ?60 billion of aircraft carrier money well spent?
:01:00. > :01:02."Stand Up Against Austerity." Can comedy win the argument over cuts?
:01:03. > :01:04.Comedian Francesca Martinez makes the case for taking the brakes off
:01:05. > :01:11.spending. And Hardeep Singh Kohli tells us why
:01:12. > :01:13.peace loving father-of-a-nation Mahatma Gandhi should be an
:01:14. > :01:23.inspiration for politicians around the world.
:01:24. > :01:32.I can only imagine if we had people with that for the loss of the --
:01:33. > :01:39.philosophy around in Palestine and Israel, there might be peace.
:01:40. > :01:43.All that and more coming up in the next hour of the very finest public
:01:44. > :01:44.service broadcasting. So the Prime Minister's former
:01:45. > :01:47.Director of Communications is on his way to prison. Andy Coulson has been
:01:48. > :01:50.sentenced to 18 months behind bars, having been found guilty of phone
:01:51. > :01:58.hacking last week. He was sentenced this morning, along with four
:01:59. > :02:01.co-defendants. Let's talk to our correspondent Robin Brant, who is at
:02:02. > :02:15.Did the judge say why he did not get the maximum sentence of two years?
:02:16. > :02:19.What he did was explain how he came to reaches decision. Andy Coulson
:02:20. > :02:23.has to take the major blame for hacking at the News of the World,
:02:24. > :02:28.said the judge, the cos it increased enormously during the period he was
:02:29. > :02:32.editor. -- because. He said he did not start it but he knew about it
:02:33. > :02:37.and he encouraged it as he felt as editor, it gave the paper a
:02:38. > :02:41.competitive edge. The cut -- before he passed sentence, the judge said
:02:42. > :02:46.the maximum he could give us two years and he said he was aiming
:02:47. > :02:51.close comments at those who may feel outrage she could not give more and
:02:52. > :02:55.those who may feel this is an attack on the press by the courts -- he
:02:56. > :03:01.could not. There was a focus on the most emotive case, the hacking of
:03:02. > :03:05.the phone of Milly Dowler in April 2002, the missing teenager. The News
:03:06. > :03:10.of the World targeted her phone and they accessed her voice mails but
:03:11. > :03:14.the judge said it was unforgivable that when they got the information,
:03:15. > :03:19.they did not tell the police for a 24 hour period. This was not about
:03:20. > :03:23.helping the police but about trying to sell newspapers. That is a
:03:24. > :03:33.glimpse into some of the reasons why the judge reached this decision.
:03:34. > :03:35.It is not over for him. He is being tried again another charges the jury
:03:36. > :03:57.could not come to a decision about, when will that start?
:03:58. > :03:58.We do not know. Possibly early next year. He is likely to be released
:03:59. > :03:59.from prison in April next year. Entitled to that, once he has served
:04:00. > :04:00.half his sentence, so he could be out in the middle of the general
:04:01. > :04:01.election campaign. Pictures of him from prison might not be what David
:04:02. > :04:07.Cameron wants to see. Both him and Clive Goodman will be retried over
:04:08. > :04:12.allegations of corrupt payments to police over internal phone
:04:13. > :04:15.directories. Police investigation is going to claims about more phone
:04:16. > :04:21.hacking, Sunday Mirror hacking as well, claims of computer hacking.
:04:22. > :04:25.The prospect of further legal action against Andy Coulson. He is inside
:04:26. > :04:31.being dealt with by the present service and Andy Coulson will leave
:04:32. > :04:36.this building in a prison van. But it is far from over in terms of time
:04:37. > :04:41.in court and further allegations he will face.
:04:42. > :04:45.We have had a reaction from the Prime Minister. He is in Scotland
:04:46. > :04:51.for the floating of this new aircraft carrier.
:04:52. > :04:56.It says it is right to justice is done and nobody is above the law, as
:04:57. > :05:19.I have always said. I guess he does not want to say any
:05:20. > :05:29.more than that. He will probably be in jail when the retrials begin. If
:05:30. > :05:34.he is sentenced on these retrials and found guilty, will the speak
:05:35. > :05:37.additional sentences or will they serve concurrently? -- will these
:05:38. > :05:41.be. The best I can do is explain what
:05:42. > :05:44.the sentence is for somebody convicted of misconduct in a public
:05:45. > :05:48.office. There has been a lot of sensitivity around this and
:05:49. > :05:53.subsequent trials. David Cameron got into a lot of trouble with the judge
:05:54. > :05:56.in the aftermath of the conviction of Andy Coulson last week. If you
:05:57. > :05:59.offer on to guilty, technically you face life in jail because it is
:06:00. > :06:01.known as, more offence. It is serious, police officers and other
:06:02. > :06:08.public officials have gone for six months, some less and others more.
:06:09. > :06:14.The issue is if he is found guilty, it will be the role he played as
:06:15. > :06:23.editor. A senior role, and that may be reflected. We are a long way from
:06:24. > :06:25.that and we do not know when this trial will take place. I was not in
:06:26. > :06:31.court at the time but a colleague was and Andy Coulson was asked to
:06:32. > :06:34.stand alongside the other four and I am told he was stored upright, there
:06:35. > :06:36.was a glance at a public gallery, but no visible reaction of the van
:06:37. > :06:37.that. That sounds like the expressionless face he had when
:06:38. > :06:39.convicted in this court over a week ago. -- reaction other than that.
:06:40. > :06:43.Barely any other expression on his face.
:06:44. > :06:47.I sentence you to staying on that street for the rest of this year!
:06:48. > :06:52.Not guilty. You are, you have been sentenced!
:06:53. > :06:55.Now, it's as long as the Houses of Parliament. At 65,000 tonnes, it?s
:06:56. > :06:58.Britain's biggest ever warship. In the next hour, the Queen will smash
:06:59. > :07:01.a bottle of the finest single malt whisky against her hull. Well, only
:07:02. > :07:04.the best will do. The Queen Elizabeth and her sister ship the
:07:05. > :07:06.Prince of Wales have already cost more than ?6 billion.
:07:07. > :07:24.Greg Miskiwi it is not a launch, they do not launch these ships, they
:07:25. > :07:30.float them -- it is not a launch. There is still a lot of of fitting
:07:31. > :07:36.out to be done. That is it, HMS Queen Elizabeth. That is what you
:07:37. > :07:43.get for about ?3 billion before counting the planes and the
:07:44. > :07:49.equipment. And it will need many sailors, more than we currently
:07:50. > :07:56.have. Robert Fox knows a lot about these things, what do you make about
:07:57. > :08:02.this? I know the outrage, currently ?6.2
:08:03. > :08:11.billion for the two ships and counting. But the Navy say ?6.2
:08:12. > :08:18.billion for a ship expected to be lasting 50 years. And it looks quite
:08:19. > :08:24.good at the price. The carrier concept I have sympathy with, the
:08:25. > :08:31.conception they came up with, it is a dog's breakfast from inception to
:08:32. > :08:35.the naming. About 15 years. It does raise some very serious questions.
:08:36. > :08:41.Did it really have to be this big? Did it really have to be this shape
:08:42. > :08:49.and require so much in terms of escort and ancillaries that she
:08:50. > :08:52.rightly referred to. I think the general agreement on both sides of
:08:53. > :08:55.the House is now we have the things, we had better use them. And there is
:08:56. > :08:59.a use. And we are joined now by former
:09:00. > :09:08.Defence Minister Nick Harvey. When I see the American equivalent,
:09:09. > :09:15.they are surrounded by other American naval ships. To form US
:09:16. > :09:20.battle fleets. Have we in off sweets to protect these carriers?
:09:21. > :09:30.We will struggle cos the fleet is small. -- have we got enough sweets.
:09:31. > :09:37.And if one of these was to be sunk, that is a lot of capacity that has
:09:38. > :09:43.gone. -- enough fleets. They will need crew. That is no small
:09:44. > :09:49.undertaking. It has taken a long time to get here, they were
:09:50. > :09:53.conceived in the 1988 Strategic Defence Review, it is another six
:09:54. > :09:58.years because they are in service. There are issues with the aircraft.
:09:59. > :10:04.The American aircraft which has had its problems. The engines just went
:10:05. > :10:12.on fire this week. They have had a succession of problems, but there is
:10:13. > :10:17.enough investment in it. But I agree with Robert, for all the problems,
:10:18. > :10:22.this is a happy day. We are going to make extensive use of these over 30,
:10:23. > :10:30.40 years, but probably in a quite different way from what George
:10:31. > :10:33.Robertson envisaged in 1988 when he thought it would be full of fighter
:10:34. > :10:37.jets which we cannot afford. We would be lucky if we have one third
:10:38. > :10:43.of the numbers he thought we would have.
:10:44. > :10:48.These are a great visual projection of power. You can project a lot of
:10:49. > :10:52.power with these but you also have two defend these, because if you
:10:53. > :11:04.lose these, it is the equivalent of the naval nine 11. July the 4th was
:11:05. > :11:11.the date of one of the biggest losses in World War II. The loss of
:11:12. > :11:16.a convoy. So you are right. That is where I am quite sanguine. If the
:11:17. > :11:21.Navy, and it is not very expensive... By the way, these are
:11:22. > :11:29.as cheap as chips compared with what the Americans spent on the
:11:30. > :11:37.equivalent. One third bigger. They need almost six times the crewing. I
:11:38. > :11:41.think the escort will be there, particularly if they get the type
:11:42. > :11:50.they wanted. Alex Salmond wants to hang on to that deal if Scotland
:11:51. > :11:55.goes independent. But they will use this in a context they did not
:11:56. > :11:59.devise. We do not want to fly aircraft to bomb Baghdad, they are
:12:00. > :12:06.dealing with points at the choke point like the red Sea, even the
:12:07. > :12:13.channel, where you have new kinds of threats. -- the English Channel. We
:12:14. > :12:20.are vulnerable in terms of maritime security. You mentioned the joint
:12:21. > :12:26.strikeforce. The capital cost is substantial but it seems we are not
:12:27. > :12:33.able to run two at one time and to put enough planes on them. Between
:12:34. > :12:39.them, these ships could take 36 each. I was told we would be lucky
:12:40. > :12:46.if we get 12 on one of them. They are working out 16 of their
:12:47. > :12:49.capacity, how does this make sense? The MoD are no longer talking about
:12:50. > :12:55.the original concept of carrier strike but carrier enabled power
:12:56. > :13:01.projection. What you will see is about 12 of the strike fighters,
:13:02. > :13:05.helicopters, and also unmanned aerial vehicles. And the roles they
:13:06. > :13:11.will be performing will be much more about getting people out of conflict
:13:12. > :13:17.zones, getting essential supplies into disaster zones. Literal
:13:18. > :13:23.manoeuvre rather than the heavy strike capability that Robert was
:13:24. > :13:29.describing. To carry marines. That is what it
:13:30. > :13:35.will be used for. And fly big helicopters off the deck at the same
:13:36. > :13:38.time. That is the real role of these things, but it is hardly being
:13:39. > :13:41.discussed. Starting from now, what would we
:13:42. > :13:48.have done this? No. We would have done something but
:13:49. > :13:55.it did not need to be on this scale. Don't the Spanish, they fly jumbo
:13:56. > :14:04.jets as we used to call them off the back of votes which are not aircraft
:14:05. > :14:10.carriers. -- ships. They fly from ships less than half this size and
:14:11. > :14:15.we have won them off smaller ships. -- loan them. We were originally
:14:16. > :14:21.going to fly conventional aircraft but that only survived a couple of
:14:22. > :14:25.years before the money men said we could not afford them. Nobody ever
:14:26. > :14:32.said, the emperor has no clothes, let's start again. But they will be
:14:33. > :14:41.magnificent, no doubt about it. The second one will be called Vince of
:14:42. > :14:47.Wales. -- music -- the Prince of Wales. We can see pictures of the
:14:48. > :14:53.Queen and the Prime Minister and the Defence Secretary. And in the
:14:54. > :14:57.background, you can see to the other side of the Firth of Forth. You can
:14:58. > :15:18.see the road bridge and the railway bridge. The Red Arrows, I assume.
:15:19. > :15:21.aircraft carrier? The Labour frontbenchers are talking about it.
:15:22. > :15:26.It's nonsense. To make this work, you really have to have the second
:15:27. > :15:29.carrier. It is not particularly complicated. The maths is easy in
:15:30. > :15:34.order to do the training. If you want to use one ship, you have to
:15:35. > :15:37.have one in preparation to train the kids, do the ammunition, food,
:15:38. > :15:44.hospital and this that and the other. The real question is the Navy
:15:45. > :15:49.is by about 2,000 to 3,000 girls and boys too small. That is one of the
:15:50. > :15:52.real disasters of the 2010 defence review.
:15:53. > :15:59.They better start training. We leave it there. Big day for the Royal navy
:16:00. > :16:02.and the British taxpayer. The Queen will be floating this Queen
:16:03. > :16:07.Elizabeth aircraft carrier in the next couple of minutes.
:16:08. > :16:09.??EDITNEXTSUBTITLE next couple of minutes.
:16:10. > :16:16.??EDITNEXTSUBTITLE The watchdog that regulates the NHS
:16:17. > :16:19.in England, called Monitor, has been criticised this morning by MPs
:16:20. > :16:21.on the Public Accounts Committee. They've said it must get better
:16:22. > :16:24.at identifying NHS hospital trusts at risk of failure
:16:25. > :16:26.and highlighted the large proportion of foundation trusts that are
:16:27. > :16:28.in financial difficulties. Let's talk to our Political
:16:29. > :16:41.Correspondent, Norman Smith. Was this is surprise? It is. The MPs
:16:42. > :16:45.appear to have discovered Monitor could do with monitoring of its own
:16:46. > :16:49.performance. A quarter of Foundation Trusts are in financial trouble. The
:16:50. > :16:53.question is how on Earth did that come to pass if Monitor's meant to
:16:54. > :16:57.be on top of the situation and try to make sure that doesn't happen.
:16:58. > :17:01.Secondly, they are concerned about the way Monitor goes about its
:17:02. > :17:06.business. In particular, the fact it only has 1% of its staff, just
:17:07. > :17:12.seven, with any clinical background. Out of the 330 or so people who work
:17:13. > :17:16.for Monitor, just a tiny percentage have hands on experience of what on
:17:17. > :17:20.Earth goes on in hospitals. As a consequence of that, they are having
:17:21. > :17:25.to buy in people who have some know how about hospitals. The committee
:17:26. > :17:29.found Monitor is spending something like 20% of its budget on bringing
:17:30. > :17:34.in consultants to tell them about the nuts and bolts of running a
:17:35. > :17:38.hospital. Not surprisingly, the Labour chair woman of the Public
:17:39. > :17:44.Accounts Committee Margaret Hodge, was somewhat less than impressed.
:17:45. > :17:47.Monitor is supposed to protect the public in relation to these
:17:48. > :17:55.independence foundation Hospital Trusts. Yet, among their 340 or so
:17:56. > :18:00.staff, they only have seven who have any clinical experience at all. We
:18:01. > :18:05.found they are spending... 20% of their money on buying in people on
:18:06. > :18:08.consultancy fees because they haven't go the in-house staff. They
:18:09. > :18:13.have a real issue as to whether they have the skills and competence to
:18:14. > :18:19.support these foundation hospitals during a very difficult time when
:18:20. > :18:23.money is tight and when there isn't enough leadership talent to go round
:18:24. > :18:29.and fill the jobs. The monitor needs a monitor. Norman,
:18:30. > :18:39.Prime Minister's Questions, a lot of Argy bargey about statistics, A
:18:40. > :18:44.Waiting lists. Any further developments in this statistical
:18:45. > :18:52.battle? I think what we learnt is the old Winston Churchill saying,
:18:53. > :18:57.lies, damn lies and statistics! It is as relevant today as it was then.
:18:58. > :19:05.The House of Commons put up a blog raising the question mark about how
:19:06. > :19:09.David Cameron reached his figures. Downing Street were incensed that it
:19:10. > :19:14.was being questioned how he came up with these figures. Last night, the
:19:15. > :19:19.House of Commons official took down the blog saying Mr Cameron had
:19:20. > :19:24.confused mean waiting times with median waiting times. He'd confused
:19:25. > :19:32.waiting times for assessment with treatment. I got on to them this
:19:33. > :19:37.morning. I asked if they'd been put under pressure from Number Ten. They
:19:38. > :19:41.say not, they will be putting up a reviewed blog shortly. It tells us
:19:42. > :19:46.in the run up to the election how figures will be in the frontline of
:19:47. > :19:50.the Argy bargey. Not only have we had Downing Street getting laid into
:19:51. > :19:55.the House of Commons people over this set of figures, you think back
:19:56. > :20:00.earlier in the week when we had Ed Miliband and his launch of his
:20:01. > :20:05.measures to help growth outside of London and Downing Street got waded
:20:06. > :20:10.into him for coming up with figures which they said were not correct.
:20:11. > :20:14.Figures will be at the sharp end in the run up to the elections.
:20:15. > :20:18.Thank you for that. We all regard the House of Commons
:20:19. > :20:25.library as gospel. We'll look forward to what they are now going
:20:26. > :20:31.??EDITNEXTSUBTITLE ??EDITNEXTSUBTITLE
:20:32. > :20:37.He's the father of a nation who has inspired movements for civil rights
:20:38. > :20:41.And Mahatma Gandhi is also comedian Hardeep Sing Koli's
:20:42. > :21:00.Giles Dilnot's been finding out more about him.
:21:01. > :21:07.You know the thing about being a politician and wax figure in Madame
:21:08. > :21:11.Tussauds, you're only really relevant because you're in power.
:21:12. > :21:16.You're a here today, gone tomorrow politician unless you're a true icon
:21:17. > :21:25.There is one still relevant in 2014 even though he died in 1948. Mahatma
:21:26. > :21:30.Gandhi. Not only a prolific philosopher and writer. Because he
:21:31. > :21:34.lived that philosophy he changed the course of history for four
:21:35. > :21:41.countries, including our own. I'm off to meet a comedian and
:21:42. > :21:47.broadcaster who thinks Gandhi's influence goes even furthers than
:21:48. > :21:52.that. We leave this bizarre little man
:21:53. > :21:56.whose coming has caused so much comment complete with loin cloth and
:21:57. > :22:02.goats milk. You've brought me to Bow. We're
:22:03. > :22:07.talking about Gandhi. He was here in 1931 for a huge conference. Loads of
:22:08. > :22:11.countries part of the empire invited. It is up in the West End
:22:12. > :22:17.and he's here. That epitomised the man. He was offered to stay with the
:22:18. > :22:22.king but he decided to come to the gritty East End to the real people.
:22:23. > :22:28.That Martian him out from other great states men and leaders. He
:22:29. > :22:32.travelled around the country listening to people about their
:22:33. > :22:37.needs, worries and concerns. I'd like to think we could all carry an
:22:38. > :22:42.element of that. Speaking for people who cannot have their voices heard.
:22:43. > :22:49.It is a powerful message. They have his room here kept as was. Would you
:22:50. > :22:56.like to have a look? I have a loin cloth, goats milk and spinning top
:22:57. > :23:02.for you. Mr Gandhi will be able to meet friends, talks when he likes,
:23:03. > :23:09.just as we do. This is the balcony. He was staying in 1931, pretty much
:23:10. > :23:14.as we've seen. This is Mahatma Gandhi's room. Defined by its
:23:15. > :23:19.simplicity. Few cushions on the floor. He slept there. His spinning
:23:20. > :23:25.wheel. Like a prison cell which is apt considering how much time he did
:23:26. > :23:29.spend in prison. What do you think is his basic philosophy? India in
:23:30. > :23:36.the forties, incredibly February rile. A war was being fought around
:23:37. > :23:41.the reported. India had a choice, to have an around uprising or find
:23:42. > :23:46.another way. Gandhi found another way. People think it was passive but
:23:47. > :23:50.it wasn't. Gandhi and the rest walked up to the line and were
:23:51. > :23:54.battered down by the sticks of the Indian members of the British Army.
:23:55. > :23:59.They went back the next day and were battered down again. I think what
:24:00. > :24:03.Gandhi showed is there's only so many times you can hit a man with a
:24:04. > :24:08.stick before you realise it is pointless, you're losing the moral
:24:09. > :24:12.argument. That's the point. Once you wage an armed conflict you lose the
:24:13. > :24:16.morality of the argument. He never lost that. All that influence is
:24:17. > :24:22.demonstrated in paperwork from the British. They don't know how to deal
:24:23. > :24:28.with him. I can show you documents which prove it. Dr Elizabeth Fraser
:24:29. > :24:35.from Oxford University says Gandhi had many ideas which influenced
:24:36. > :24:42.Indian politics. It is a follows if I of non-violence. It has several
:24:43. > :24:48.elements to it. First, he's very worried about state power laws and
:24:49. > :24:56.policing which he thinks will always have to use violence. Secondly, of
:24:57. > :25:00.course, he sees the British imperialism as a arc typically
:25:01. > :25:11.violent, oppressive system. He thinks the only way to answer
:25:12. > :25:22.violence is with non-violent rest Is fence tb -- resistance.
:25:23. > :25:27.Got it. Let's look at this. This is basically at the national archives.
:25:28. > :25:33.Records of what the Government were making of Gandhi's campaign for
:25:34. > :25:40.Indian independence. In 1940, they are all just reporting back his
:25:41. > :25:45.intransigence, if you like. It's very clear it's independence or
:25:46. > :25:49.nothing. By 1943, they've just arrested saying he can't
:25:50. > :25:53.correspondent with begin in a, the founder of Pakistan. They won't let
:25:54. > :25:56.him talk to him. It is clear Gandhi's crucial to Indian
:25:57. > :26:01.independence. But it is not India he wants that he gets. I believe
:26:02. > :26:04.without Gandhi there would be no independent India. He was
:26:05. > :26:10.instrumental to the entire process. What's not as well known is the work
:26:11. > :26:15.he was doing in terms of keeping the internal body politic coherent,
:26:16. > :26:20.stopping the factional violence between the Hindus and Muslims. It
:26:21. > :26:25.was a dying regret partings occurred. But what's fascinating
:26:26. > :26:30.about Gandhi is he managed all this change, all this influence without
:26:31. > :26:35.being a formal politician. He never held office. It might sound cheesy.
:26:36. > :26:40.I'm taking you to an Indian restaurant but there is a point to
:26:41. > :26:50.it. I don't really like all that foreign muck! See why? Come on in.
:26:51. > :26:57.Hardeep, I've brought to Gandhi's restaurant. It is not just a name.
:26:58. > :27:01.This is frequented by Prime Ministers, Gordon Brown, Alistair
:27:02. > :27:07.Darling. Prime Minister of Bangladesh. Does Gandhi have any
:27:08. > :27:11.relevance to modern politics? There isn't an international figure in
:27:12. > :27:16.recent history who's had a greater impact on politics. If you trace the
:27:17. > :27:21.line from Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, what's been happening
:27:22. > :27:26.recently in Burma, the passive resistance, not stepping down, but
:27:27. > :27:35.neither stepping too far up, has proven to work time and time again.
:27:36. > :27:39.I only imagine if we'd people with that ganged eian philosophy warned
:27:40. > :27:45.in Palestine and Israel, there might be peace there. There may not have
:27:46. > :27:51.been a genocide in Rwanda. No Crimean situation now. But, really,
:27:52. > :27:56.I think, what we should do to honour Mahatma Gandhi, is have a small
:27:57. > :28:05.vegetarian Indian snack. I'm not going to tell you how to eat it.
:28:06. > :28:09.Last thing I'll do is give you a pop a Dom don't preach... But #50i78'
:28:10. > :28:16.keeping the baby. It was going very well till the end.
:28:17. > :28:19.Well the economy seems to have bounced back but our public finances
:28:20. > :28:23.We're still spending ?107 billion a year more than we can afford
:28:24. > :28:26.and we're less than halfway through the planned cuts.
:28:27. > :28:28.Not everyone is in favour of sticking with that programme though
:28:29. > :28:32.and next week some of Britain's best known comics will be taking to the
:28:33. > :28:35.And we're joined now by Francesca Martinez who will be
:28:36. > :28:38.taking part in the "stand up to austerity" and by Harry
:28:39. > :28:45.I'll be at the Apollo on 7th July. You should come because it is
:28:46. > :28:55.supporting the People's Assembly which is this huge movement at grass
:28:56. > :29:15.roots level looking to change the way that the austerity is happening.
:29:16. > :29:20.Looking for an to that. There will be loads of brilliant comics. It
:29:21. > :29:20.will be for a marvellous cause. You can console yourself with the fact
:29:21. > :29:21.you've done some. All you will have done is go to a gig and done
:29:22. > :29:22.nothing, really! On 7th July it will be up against austerity. On 7th,
:29:23. > :29:23.Francesca Martinez will be there. I advise you to go. I endorse it as a
:29:24. > :29:28.concept and as a cause. And we're joined now by
:29:29. > :29:30.Francesca Martinez who will be taking part in the
:29:31. > :29:44."stand up to austerity" and by Harry We've had austerity for years? We
:29:45. > :29:48.need to fight it. 80% of the cuts have not come in yet. It is really
:29:49. > :29:55.important we stand up against it now. Let's not kid ourselves.
:29:56. > :30:02.Austerity is not about money. It is about bringing in a near liberal
:30:03. > :30:05.agenda dominated by corporate interests. I think it's really
:30:06. > :30:12.important we challenge that rhetoric. Cameron said recently that
:30:13. > :30:19.we were having permanent austerity which proves it's about ideology and
:30:20. > :30:29.not money. If it was about money, they would be regulating the banking
:30:30. > :30:42.sector to ensure a crash never happens again. Instead, that's been
:30:43. > :30:45.left largely untouched. We have not really had austerities yet and we
:30:46. > :30:51.never really will. The government has been spending aliens this year
:30:52. > :30:57.and at the end of the government -- the Labour government, they were
:30:58. > :31:03.spending less. The debt has hit ?1.3 trillion. Why are we not talking
:31:04. > :31:06.about that? If you want to talk about protesting about future and
:31:07. > :31:13.fairness, how is saddling people not born yet with thousands of debt for
:31:14. > :31:18.our spending now fair? The problem is not money, there is always money
:31:19. > :31:28.for war, why? There is always money to bail out banks and four MP pay
:31:29. > :31:33.rises. They voted on an 11% pay rise.
:31:34. > :31:41.Actually, they have not. They tried hard! They did not say, there is no
:31:42. > :31:48.money for a pay rise. So when it suits the government, they find it.
:31:49. > :31:56.If you want to create more money in this world, there is a what we can
:31:57. > :32:01.do. We can tackle the ?120 billion tax gap that we currently have. We
:32:02. > :32:08.could introduce a living wage which would ensure working people do not
:32:09. > :32:13.have to be on benefit -- benefits. Only 3% of people on benefits are
:32:14. > :32:18.unemployed. Welfare is not the issue. But welfare is being
:32:19. > :32:29.demonised to justify the cuts. And as a taxpayer, I am totally proud to
:32:30. > :32:32.fund welfare, the NHS, education, I am not proud to fund legal wars,
:32:33. > :32:40.that is what should be demonised. She is right, there is always money
:32:41. > :32:43.around. Even borrowing ?107 billion seems a lot but interest rates are
:32:44. > :32:48.low and despite the fact the government has not cut the deficit
:32:49. > :32:53.by anything like it said it would, the economy is growing again,
:32:54. > :32:56.employment is growing, so the original strategy might not have
:32:57. > :33:02.been right. There is a ticking time bomb, they
:33:03. > :33:06.are not addressing the debt and we are living on borrowed time. Unless
:33:07. > :33:13.we radically address the situation and we do not just tinker around. We
:33:14. > :33:17.are over five years proposing a 3.9% reduction in state spending in real
:33:18. > :33:23.terms, the same amount Denis Healy did in the 1970s in one year. These
:33:24. > :33:30.are not radical cuts, which are tinkering. -- we are tinkering. We
:33:31. > :33:34.should be taking out departments. If you want to address the economy
:33:35. > :33:38.and make sure the crash never happens again, you have to change
:33:39. > :33:49.this economic system which is fundamentally unjust. It benefits an
:33:50. > :34:01.elite few. You tell the 1 million people who use food banks the cuts
:34:02. > :34:08.are tinkering. There is going to be a what more trouble than that. -- a
:34:09. > :34:11.lot more. If we do not address the financial situation. You say we want
:34:12. > :34:19.to regulate the city so it cannot happen again, the city is creating
:34:20. > :34:24.the wealth that pays the series. -- the taxes. It remains in the hands
:34:25. > :34:32.of vinyl beat a few. It pays for the NHS and the public services. -- an
:34:33. > :34:37.elite few. The NHS is being privatised because private health
:34:38. > :34:41.funds the Tory party. That is how policy works.
:34:42. > :34:43.We will have to leave it. It is time to look at what is going on in
:34:44. > :34:48.European politics. MEPs elected in May have met for the
:34:49. > :34:51.first time in Strasbourg this week. In a moment, we'll be joined by two
:34:52. > :34:55.of them in the studio. First though, here's our guide to the latest from
:34:56. > :35:08.Europe, in just 60 seconds. The week's most awkward phone call,
:35:09. > :35:12.as the Prime Minister congratulates Jean-Claude Juncker on his new job,
:35:13. > :35:18.despite spending week is trying to prevent him. The Parliament began
:35:19. > :35:27.the session with Beethoven's Ode to Joy, the anthem of the EU. Most MEPs
:35:28. > :35:31.looked two way, UKIP, the other. While UKIP think the EU is rubbish,
:35:32. > :35:36.the European Commission is talking rubbish. The commission has proposed
:35:37. > :35:40.councils will have to recycle 70% of household waste by the end of next
:35:41. > :35:45.decade. Better news for David this week
:35:46. > :35:50.after Germany backed plans to back migrants sending child benefits
:35:51. > :35:54.abroad. And who is this smoothly? Matteo Ramsey is the new Italian
:35:55. > :35:57.Prime Minister who says the continent is moving at half the
:35:58. > :36:06.speed of the rest of the world, so time to move on, Pronto!
:36:07. > :36:11.And with us for the next 30 minutes, I've been joined by the Conservative
:36:12. > :36:13.Ian Duncan and Labour's Jude Kirton-Darling. Welcome to the
:36:14. > :36:17.programme. Let's just pick up on the comments made by the Italian Prime
:36:18. > :36:22.Minister, Matteo Renzi, that we saw at the end of that clip there.
:36:23. > :36:31.That it is time to end austerity, is it? Is it going to happen? I think
:36:32. > :36:35.it is fundamental we see a change in direction at European level. This
:36:36. > :36:42.leads neatly from the discussion you are having about the UK. If we look
:36:43. > :36:45.across Europe, austerity has been extremely counter-productive in a
:36:46. > :36:53.lot of countries. Fran?ois Alonso was elected to bring
:36:54. > :37:04.an end to it -- Francois Hollande. France is now in a worse state than
:37:05. > :37:09.any other European economy. Figures suggest there is no growth, so why
:37:10. > :37:13.did he fail? Because we have not seen that change at European level.
:37:14. > :37:19.We saw one President elected in France but we did not see a change
:37:20. > :37:25.in the overall strategy at European level. What we need is to seek a
:37:26. > :37:32.change in the EU strategy and a posh in terms of investment and growth.
:37:33. > :37:36.-- eight posh. Labour are calling for concrete measures to put forward
:37:37. > :37:40.growth and job creation because we still have catastrophic levels of
:37:41. > :37:45.unemployment across Europe. Would that make a difference?
:37:46. > :37:51.Austerity is causing serious problems in Europe but the Eurozone
:37:52. > :37:54.is causing real problems around the Mediterranean countries. Youth
:37:55. > :37:59.unemployment above 50%. Unless you can get a serious adjustment,
:38:00. > :38:04.generations will be lost. What would that be? The Eurozone has
:38:05. > :38:09.to adjust. You have got to allow some sense of freedom. Allow
:38:10. > :38:14.devaluation, potentially countries we focusing and building themselves
:38:15. > :38:16.back up. You cannot have that unless they
:38:17. > :38:21.read. If you do not do that, you are just
:38:22. > :38:24.hoping inside that lifeboat will be survival. -- they leave. I think
:38:25. > :38:29.there will be starvation. Now, we're all used to a left-wing
:38:30. > :38:32.and right-wing divide in politics. But after the recent European
:38:33. > :38:34.elections in which anti-establishment parties made big
:38:35. > :38:37.gains, are the new division lines in European politics now between
:38:38. > :38:39.europhiles and eurosceptics? The European Parliament is still
:38:40. > :38:42.dominated by the two big traditional political groupings. The EPP, the
:38:43. > :38:45.European People's Party who have 29% of the seats, and S, the
:38:46. > :38:47.Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats, who have 25% of the
:38:48. > :38:58.seats. Although these groupings are on opposite sides of the political
:38:59. > :39:00.spectrum, the EPP on the centre-right and the S on the
:39:01. > :39:03.centre-left, they definitely have one thing in common. They are both
:39:04. > :39:08.very pro-European. But their European love-in faces a threat,
:39:09. > :39:15.after voters returned a significant numbers of MEPs from Eurosceptic
:39:16. > :39:18.parties such as UKIP, France's National Front and Italy's Five Star
:39:19. > :39:22.Movement. So the traditional rivals of European politics have got
:39:23. > :39:26.together and negotiated a grand coalition with themselves and the
:39:27. > :39:31.Liberal grouping ALDE to prevent the EU's programme being derailed, and
:39:32. > :39:35.the dividing lines in the European Parliament were on show from the
:39:36. > :39:49.very first debate a few days ago. The Eurosceptics are the
:39:50. > :39:58.progressives. These two gentleman had nothing to say today, it was the
:39:59. > :40:02.usual dull, looking back, invented 50 years ago, and we want democracy,
:40:03. > :40:07.we want nation state, we want a global future for our countries, not
:40:08. > :40:14.to be trapped inside this museum. Thank you.
:40:15. > :40:17.What are you doing here? I heard the speech of the Leader of the
:40:18. > :40:20.Opposition in the House of Commons. If you want to be considered as the
:40:21. > :40:25.leader of the European political group, make speeches of eight
:40:26. > :40:30.political European leader, thank you. -- apolitical.
:40:31. > :40:34.We are joined now by the UKIP MEP Tim Aker.
:40:35. > :40:41.Is Eurosceptic and Europhile the dividing line?
:40:42. > :40:50.It is business as usual. Some are challenging the big rocks. We have
:40:51. > :40:56.formed a democracy group and you could hear applause. There is a
:40:57. > :41:00.movement away from the old Moore Europe and more integration, it is
:41:01. > :41:04.coming on in stages but it is a trend that will continue at the next
:41:05. > :41:11.elections because it cannot go on. Is he right? The centre-left
:41:12. > :41:16.grouping is a coalition with the centre-right because although you
:41:17. > :41:18.disagree on individual policies, what unites you is a strong European
:41:19. > :41:24.feel. What we are there to do is to defend
:41:25. > :41:28.the people who have elected us to go to the European Parliament.
:41:29. > :41:32.Implement the programme we have committed to. In the north-east
:41:33. > :41:38.where I stood, it was during game investment, creating jobs in a place
:41:39. > :41:44.with the highest employment -- unemployment in the country. --
:41:45. > :41:48.bringing in investment. It is not opposition government, it is ELT on
:41:49. > :41:55.alliances and they need to work. You have joined a group that is
:41:56. > :41:59.Federalist. -- it is built on. The EU has to work for the people of
:42:00. > :42:07.Britain. Are you Federalist? Not especially. I think we are stronger
:42:08. > :42:12.together. That is the issue. The Labour group is explicitly
:42:13. > :42:19.Federalist, are you Federalist? I would say that I believe that
:42:20. > :42:21.Europeans working together are better off than nation state is
:42:22. > :42:28.trying to poll behind national lines. So you are Federalist. I am
:42:29. > :42:33.quite pro-European and I am proud of that. You have not answered my
:42:34. > :42:41.question. I think it is a false debate. It is not a dictatorship, as
:42:42. > :42:47.UKIP present. Where are the Conservatives in this? Isolated. The
:42:48. > :42:53.Conservatives are part of the third-largest group. A group which
:42:54. > :42:59.believes in reform. We were the only serious opposition of the stitch up
:43:00. > :43:04.whereby Jean-Claude Juncker got the presidency of the commission. But
:43:05. > :43:11.none of your allies, the German Christian Democrats, the French UMP,
:43:12. > :43:15.the Spanish Conservatives, none of these, your natural allies in
:43:16. > :43:22.Europe, or in your group. The reality is that they believe in
:43:23. > :43:27.reform and only we can deliver that. Would you want to have dinner with
:43:28. > :43:30.them? I had dinner with them several times.
:43:31. > :43:33.Should you not to choose your company more carefully?
:43:34. > :43:40.They believe in reform. When it comes to a battle between the
:43:41. > :43:44.Eurosceptics and the strongly pro-European or most federalist on
:43:45. > :43:49.the other side of the other groups, where are you? UKIP are going to
:43:50. > :43:54.turn their back on Europe as they did in the anthem. Federalism is not
:43:55. > :44:00.what we are for, we believe we can make Europe work. But it has to be
:44:01. > :44:03.serious reform and we are the only party that can deliver a referendum
:44:04. > :44:10.to give people the choice. Where does UKIP go because although the
:44:11. > :44:17.anti-European parties did very well in the European elections, when you
:44:18. > :44:20.put together the centre-right, the centre-left and the liberal
:44:21. > :44:26.grouping, you are still outnumbered and you do not all agree.
:44:27. > :44:30.The questioner who took my daughter task, what are you doing here if you
:44:31. > :44:38.oppose this? -- who took Nigel to task. That is the mindset. There
:44:39. > :44:43.were more spoilt papers that your candidate got in the elections. We
:44:44. > :44:50.want nothing to do with this. We got 100 votes, we got beyond our
:44:51. > :44:55.numbers, which is quite impressive. We are isolated because we are not
:44:56. > :45:00.willing to do cosy deals. We are not able to build alliances and at
:45:01. > :45:05.European level, you have to do that to reform. If you are going to give
:45:06. > :45:13.up on your principles, you can do what you did. He called it a free
:45:14. > :45:18.and open election but it was not, there was no EPP candidate, that is
:45:19. > :45:23.a cosy stitch up. There were five candidates and it was a secret
:45:24. > :45:29.ballot and anybody could vote. The EPP did not put up a candidate and
:45:30. > :45:33.they are the August group in -- the biggest group. You still outnumbered
:45:34. > :45:38.in the European Parliament. You are part of the group in which the
:45:39. > :45:44.British Labour Party does not agree with its policies, and you are not
:45:45. > :45:48.part of anything. We the third biggest group. You cannot swing
:45:49. > :45:53.anything, you are outnumbered by the three centre groups. For as long the
:45:54. > :45:57.Labour Party believes it should be Federalist minded, we will have a
:45:58. > :46:03.problem. We believe it is about reforming the EU. Building
:46:04. > :46:09.alliances. So you agree with me. No, it is what you define as reform.
:46:10. > :46:14.What is your most important reform? I would like a real commitment, use
:46:15. > :46:19.unemployment at the top of the programme. That is a programme. --
:46:20. > :46:24.youth unemployment. How would you like to reform Europe? It is about
:46:25. > :46:29.redressing the balance. They put employment issues in the last
:46:30. > :46:34.commission and they have been at the bottom of the pile, it has been
:46:35. > :46:42.about this ghost ability. Start on our own house, stop the circus that
:46:43. > :46:43.travels to Strasbourg every month. Save the hundreds of millions that
:46:44. > :46:59.represents. leader of my political group in the
:47:00. > :47:01.European Parliament. I didn't vote Conservative. He was the candidate,
:47:02. > :47:06.the leader of my group. So, after that 26-2 defeat
:47:07. > :47:08.on the election of Jean Claude Junker as Commission
:47:09. > :47:10.President and UKIP's success in the European Parliament elections
:47:11. > :47:13.what does the rest of Europe think of Britain and its prospects
:47:14. > :47:16.as a member of the European Union? By the magic of television
:47:17. > :47:32.Giles Dilnot's been able to talk to If you reflect on it, members ship
:47:33. > :47:37.of the European Union has not been conjured out of nowhere. However
:47:38. > :47:42.warped the debate gets our leaving the whole show has been rising up
:47:43. > :47:46.the agenda. Not only do lots of country think it's a difficult trick
:47:47. > :47:52.to pull off but it is the kind of magic you shouldn't even attempt. It
:47:53. > :47:59.is very important Britain stays in the EU. And in Austria, we think
:48:00. > :48:11.it's only a threat from Britain it will leave. Mr Cameron will show us
:48:12. > :48:16.how important he is in Europe we take it as a joke. After the
:48:17. > :48:20.European elections, nearly half the old MEPs have transformed into new
:48:21. > :48:24.ones. As a result of attitudes here and elsewhere, it is worth flagging
:48:25. > :48:31.up for Britain and many of the other 28 member states their con tingents
:48:32. > :48:35.are now more eurosceptic than ever. Debating our exit is a good thing
:48:36. > :48:40.and also very revealing. It is not a joke. It is a big issue. Whatever
:48:41. > :48:45.the British decide to do it is significant for all. It is not
:48:46. > :48:51.harmful for the EU. It is helpful for the EU to know we are not locked
:48:52. > :48:56.in. We can exit if we want to. It's even better that a big country like
:48:57. > :49:02.Britain has taken up these issues of reform and even possible exit if the
:49:03. > :49:06.EU continues on this path of federalism. But many Europeans see
:49:07. > :49:13.Britain as descending into the dark arts. The official awkward squad
:49:14. > :49:17.making tactical threats. Then they think, well, maybe they are
:49:18. > :49:23.blackmailing us. Is it worth it. Or maybe they think, can we conceive of
:49:24. > :49:28.the European Union without the UK? The answer to that, if you ask it
:49:29. > :49:35.often enough, yes. The costs would be very high both ways round. A
:49:36. > :49:42.terrible loss of prestige. What that really reveals to those who want to
:49:43. > :49:48.map you out Britain's future is we can leave without each other. But
:49:49. > :49:52.when you see the gap, it's something everyone a would want to reconsider.
:49:53. > :49:58.I'm one of those who thinks it could work better. Be careful what you
:49:59. > :50:02.wish for. Be careful of destroying something that has taken wars to
:50:03. > :50:06.create and peace to stabilise. Do you want to be the political group
:50:07. > :50:11.that pulled it apart when others look to Europe as being the envy of
:50:12. > :50:18.democracy, modernisation, freedom, liberty and free movement. For those
:50:19. > :50:23.who are transparently pro-European, this strike tearily debate appears
:50:24. > :50:29.to disstrict. Eurosceptic voters need to know where that leaves those
:50:30. > :50:35.who want out. All the voters need to understand they have no influence.
:50:36. > :50:40.They are not part of the discussions in the committees where we are
:50:41. > :50:44.talking about creating rules, financial sector stab I willisation.
:50:45. > :50:51.There's no participation of these groups. They getting money for doing
:50:52. > :50:55.nothing. In one sense, it doesn't really matter what other countries
:50:56. > :51:05.think. If we have a referendum and if we vote no, like that, we're
:51:06. > :51:09.gone. How big an issue is it with other
:51:10. > :51:15.Europeans in the European Parliament of the possibility of Britain's
:51:16. > :51:20.departure? It's been discussed now. This Parliament is one which is
:51:21. > :51:25.different from the past. The general consensus is it is different. There
:51:26. > :51:29.is a mood for reform and change. There's the Rec negligence Britain
:51:30. > :51:32.is pushing for that. I think many other countries want that same
:51:33. > :51:38.reform. It is not just about what Britain wants. It is about what the
:51:39. > :51:42.rest of Europe wants as well. We have to listen to people who put us
:51:43. > :51:48.into that Parliament. They want something different. If everyone
:51:49. > :51:53.shouted for reform, why can't a consensus emerge and we proceed?
:51:54. > :51:57.Fundamentally, we're talking about different of reforms. There are some
:51:58. > :52:01.things we clearly agree. Stopping the charade of us all trooping down
:52:02. > :52:05.to Strasbourg and making one seat for the Parliament. That makes
:52:06. > :52:09.complete sense. You know that's not going to change? . That would take
:52:10. > :52:15.David Cameron going into negotiation with other leaders and being able to
:52:16. > :52:21.build an alliance for that. An alliance would make no difference.
:52:22. > :52:26.The French would just veto it. You find ways of finding a compromise
:52:27. > :52:29.which could work forthe French. Those reforms are actually in the
:52:30. > :52:35.hands of the European council. Many of the things in the European
:52:36. > :52:39.Parliament are more policy reforms. Redirecting where the focus is in
:52:40. > :52:46.terms of growth, in terms of investment, in terms of employment.
:52:47. > :52:50.Could you get this biggest spending in Europe is still the Common
:52:51. > :52:56.Agricultural Policy. Not as big as it was but still the biggest. Would
:52:57. > :53:02.reform include getting that money being spent on infrastructure, job
:53:03. > :53:08.creation, modernising Europe? If you look at how the negotiations over
:53:09. > :53:12.how the budget was placed, Monet fecked things like broadband, to
:53:13. > :53:16.shore up the French needs for farming. It is not just about
:53:17. > :53:19.maintaining how things have been in the past. We have to get things more
:53:20. > :53:24.focussed. No idea the number of times I've
:53:25. > :53:29.been told that. Maybe one day it will happen. Snell
:53:30. > :53:32.How big an issue is it with other Europeans in the European Parliament
:53:33. > :53:34.of the possibility of Britain's departure? It's been discussed now.
:53:35. > :53:48.This Parliament is one which is different from the past. The general
:53:49. > :53:54.The biggest thing which surprised me on my travels in Euroland is the
:53:55. > :54:00.number of British people I've bumped into. In the Hague, the head of euro
:54:01. > :54:07.poll. In Switzerland, the EU's ambassador. And in Brussels, Mrs
:54:08. > :54:12.Evans. She overseas fish. When people are talking to you, they
:54:13. > :54:17.don't say, she's a British person. They are talking to you as the woman
:54:18. > :54:23.in charge of fisheries policy or state aid. They are not saying, she
:54:24. > :54:28.is a British person. It's not really the primary thing. Is it useful for
:54:29. > :54:35.Whitehall having you in this job? Is there a little back channel there?
:54:36. > :54:40.There's no back channel. I will talk to anybody that wants to talk to me.
:54:41. > :54:45.The problem is, there are a lot of senior people reaching the end of
:54:46. > :54:50.long EU careers and not enough Jones who's starting her as an assistant
:54:51. > :54:54.in the IT department of the European Commission. Since I've been here,
:54:55. > :55:00.I'm probably one of a handful of Brits that I've known over the last
:55:01. > :55:03.18 months. Mainly my colleagues are from lots of different European
:55:04. > :55:09.countries. And, of course, that was part of the appeal of coming to work
:55:10. > :55:14.here. The mix of people and cultures and I find that really interesting.
:55:15. > :55:19.And that's the story the statistics tell too. For simplicity let's look
:55:20. > :55:24.at the commission where Joanne works. The number of UK nationals
:55:25. > :55:29.employed there has fallen by 24% over the last seven years which
:55:30. > :55:35.means now just 4.5% of the staff are British. The UK makes up 12.5% of
:55:36. > :55:38.the population of the EU. So, as a nation, we're seriously
:55:39. > :55:42.underrepresented. A situation one British EU official told me is a
:55:43. > :55:45.catastrophe. That's how they see it here at the
:55:46. > :55:49.Foreign Office in London too. So much so, earlier this year, they
:55:50. > :55:58.launched a new drive to get more people thinking of careers as EU
:55:59. > :56:02.civil servants. There's a whole office dedicated to getting people
:56:03. > :56:07.working in Whitehall to Brussels. But what's the EU really like as an
:56:08. > :56:17.employer? Do you find yourself going home and being an advocate of the
:56:18. > :56:25.EU? Absolutely. 100%. Is this a fun place to work? We don't have fun,
:56:26. > :56:33.you know. We have job satisfaction! We've neither here sclachlt The
:56:34. > :56:40.position of European Commission working for Jean-Claude Juncker. Who
:56:41. > :56:45.will it be? I put my money on Malcolm Rifkind. Malcolm Rifkind?
:56:46. > :56:50.Yeah, former Foreign Secretary. You'd probably win a by-election in
:56:51. > :56:58.Kensington. The important thing is to get the ride man up for the job.
:56:59. > :57:04.He's not up for the job. I've heard his name talked about. News to me.
:57:05. > :57:10.From our perspective it is the Government who decides. So bound to
:57:11. > :57:13.be a Tory? You'd guess unless Nick Clegg wants a platinum balloon out
:57:14. > :57:20.of the coalition, I'm guessing it will be a Tory. Provacative! Whoever
:57:21. > :57:23.it is, we hope it is somebody able to build those alliances at European
:57:24. > :57:31.level and we'll work with them. What would be a good portfolio for them
:57:32. > :57:36.to get? There's quite a ripe choice. An economic Nd one! The British have
:57:37. > :57:40.always gone for internal market. We've not managed to get it tube to
:57:41. > :57:45.our position from other countries up to now. There are big issues in the
:57:46. > :57:51.future around energy, climate change. There are lots of key
:57:52. > :57:56.issues. Which would you like and the British commissioner to get?
:57:57. > :58:02.Internal market would make a difference but trade. It will be
:58:03. > :58:09.important to trade internal markets. These trade agreements are not going
:58:10. > :58:14.well at the moment? They've been bogged down. We need to get them
:58:15. > :58:18.moving. You can create growth and jobs.
:58:19. > :58:22.Peter Mandelson took the prey seriously? He did. He's regarded
:58:23. > :58:25.well in Brussels as a result of it. The key thing is to have a
:58:26. > :58:31.commissioner who's willing to do the hard work and is willing to put
:58:32. > :58:37.themselves into the job fully. If that's the case, then I think the UK
:58:38. > :58:43.will be in a good position. I think the key, it is interesting in the
:58:44. > :58:47.report, we have to be encouraging younger people to work in the
:58:48. > :58:50.institutions. That's also about changing and informing better the
:58:51. > :58:55.British public about what the institutions are. We have to leave
:58:56. > :59:09.it there. Thanks to my guests Jude and Ian, bye-bye.
:59:10. > :59:12.When Barbara and I started the Review,
:59:13. > :59:15.we were seeking to examine the workings
:59:16. > :59:18.and the truthfulness of establishments.
:59:19. > :59:25.Albatross? There it is. The albatross.
:59:26. > :59:27.The albatross is going to need a hair-styling.
:59:28. > :59:34.A thrilling tale of double agents and a man on the run.
:59:35. > :59:38.John Buchan's flair for wartime propaganda